Fantasy/Custom Boosters for Draft/Sealed? | forge | Page 1

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:23 AM

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If we haven't set up a way for the play booster to work with MKM yet, because it's a brand new way of formatting, then there's no way to make it work for anything fantasy currently. Even when it's set up to work with real sets, we'd have to have a dev that is willing to code something to allow fantasy or other/older sets to work with it.

The other custom stuff you were talking about in general exist because someone has spent the time to code support for said custom thing to work. Custom things don't just "work". Support for such things have to be designed that will allow users to be able to make their custom things. We have very limited man-power these days and as far as I'm aware there isn't any dev that would be looking into allowing the new play booster to work with older or custom sets, nor anyone with the time to create a tutorial of how to change the engine to do so.

Currently, our limited time is being spent on adding real products and things to Forge which leaves very little time for fantasy/custom stuff. That's not to say it will never happen, just that someone has to want to do it.

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If you're willing to spend the time researching, with the fact there's a lack of tutorial for this kind of thing, take a look at some of the pull requests on the GitHub that have implemented past boosters and see what Forge can support, who knows it might show you ways you can make things work how you wanted.

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:28 AM

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I would love to, but I am not a programmer and I do not know how GitHub works. I can edit a text file well enough to implement a custom card, but that's about it.

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I am absolutely willing; I wish I had the skill and knowledge to join the project and build all this stuff myself.

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:29 AM

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Right, but like I said "if you're willing". Once upon at time I didn't know how GH worked or how anything in Forge worked, but I spent time to learn it.

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:29 AM

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My lack is not in will but in ability.

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I have tried.

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:29 AM

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The only way to gain that ability is to read other pull requests on GH. We simply don't have the time to train people or teach people how to code.

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:30 AM

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I am not a bootstrapper. I am a willing student but I can't learn without a teacher. When I dive in and try to figure it out myself, I go corss eyed. I can't make sense of it.

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:30 AM

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I understand, but.. we're not here to teach

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:30 AM

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I don't even know what a "pull request" is

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This has gone on a tangent

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I didn't mean to be asking you to teach me

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:32 AM

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No but... "I don't even know what a "pull request" is"

Like I said, "if you're willing". You could try googling what a github pull request is and start there. Honestly, the real skill to code is to know how to read and search, we don't always remember everything. We're always googling and searching for answers

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:32 AM

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I'm just explaining what I don't know and why I can't figure it out. I didn't intend to imply a request for you to do that for me. "I need a teacher" was not intended to mean "you, specifically, need to teach me"

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:32 AM

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If you have learned how to make a custom card then you're on the right track...

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:33 AM

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Yeah, I found a detailed tutorial for making custom cards and sets on an old forum. It was very helpful for that specific thing. I haven't found anything like that for this specific other thing, which is why i came asking here.

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:34 AM

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Ok but like I said in my first message... play booster support doesn't yet exist in Forge, so there's nothing to figure out even if you could. We haven't made them work yet.

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:34 AM

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Okay. That is reasonable and understandable.

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:35 AM

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dense plaza Yeah, I found a detailed tutorial for making custom cards and sets on an old for...

Again, like I said... custom cards and everything that you see that is custom has been designed by a dev to enable custom stuff to work, so the likelihood of a tutorial is higher. There has never been an implementation for people to make custom boosters so... lack of a tutorial. "custom" boosters don't really exist. The fantasy stuff you're talking about was coded to work in that very specific area of the code.

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:36 AM

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I guess my request, then, is when you guys do implement Play Booster support -- as you seem to be implying you intend to? -- could that be done in a way that includes the ability to do custom Fantasy Boosters? Since you need to be programming in a whole new booster type anyway, would it be that much extra work to make the files that define the new booster type accessible and moddable by the user in the way so much else is?

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:37 AM

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I mean yeah it would be extra work that no-one currently is willing to do

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:38 AM

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Okay

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:38 AM

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Defining a new booster format is very different to let's make custom boosters work

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:38 AM

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I believe you, but I don't understand how. I apologize for my ignorance.

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:40 AM

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Like I said, your best option really is, start with "what is a pull request on GH" then once you understand that, have a look at our pull requests and search for when we have implemented boosters, then you'd find what files need to change, what needs to change in them etc. (this only applies to what we have already supported in the past though, obviously)

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:40 AM

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Okay

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:42 AM

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dense plaza I believe you, but I don't understand how. I apologize for my ignorance.

I'm sorry but I don't think you understand how difficult it would be to explain to someone that doesn't code, as you say you don't, why and how it would be extra work for custom boosters to be set up as you'd like

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You can define your own boosters if you changed things about the core program, but that's again not something we offer support with, you have to learn and research that yourself

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:43 AM

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Yeah, I guess you're right. It's that Dunning Kreuger effect; it's not just that I don't know, but that I don't even know what I don't know

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Sorry

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:46 AM

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I mean we all gotta start somewhere... I'm a core dev, ask me how to implement a new mechanic into the engine and teach the AI how to use it? Nah I'm lost. That's not my area. But the stuff I do know, I researched, learned to code, and then looked through the engine code and gained more knowledge as I went. I have no background or school or job in coding yet here I am. You said you're willing and I gave tips on where to start

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Honestly, it's hard work, but go Google what a pull request is and then you'll start to find things you didn't know that you didn't know

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:48 AM

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I'll try. I've tried before with similar things; not yet with Forge specifically, but I have learned my way around html, xml, json, and basic css, but every time I try to cross the line from markup languages into actual coding, I hit a wall and go cross-eyed. I can navigate and edit a set of definitions, but when I start trying to navigate or write a set of instructions that make things happen, I have stalled out every time and I don't know why.

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It's very frustrating.

analog merlin Jan 29, 2024, 12:49 AM

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Yeah I know I've been there but keep at it and one day it will click, anyway, good luck, I've given what info I can, I'm going to bed

dense plaza Jan 29, 2024, 12:49 AM

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Thank you, and sorry again. Sleep well

dense plaza Jan 30, 2024, 1:34 AM

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Turns out every set has their booster layout defined in a single line of text in the set's edition txt file. Customizing it is super easy to do on the user side and takes zero extra work from the devs. All anyone had to say was "it's in the edition file" and my question would have been answered.

analog merlin Jan 30, 2024, 7:46 AM

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I answered your question based on what you wanted which was defining new slots like play boosters use. Also, editions that don't have a booster defined require other files to be changed, not just the edition. No need to come back with a snarky comment really.

dense plaza Jan 30, 2024, 10:58 AM

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I literally just went into the Throne of Eldraine edition file and changed
Booster=10 Common:fromSheet("ELD cards"), 3 Uncommon:fromSheet("ELD cards"), 1 RareMythic:fromSheet("ELD cards"), 1 BasicLand
to
Booster=6 Common:fromSheet("ELD cards"), 3 Uncommon:fromSheet("ELD cards"), 1 RareMythic:fromSheet("ELD cards"), 3 fromSheet("ELD cards"), 1 BasicLand
and that accomplished everything I needed it to. None of the other changes to Play Boosters matter for limited play.

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I'm just frustrated that I got called pushy and demanding for insisting that something was this easy that is, in fact, this easy, and all I wanted was to be told what file I needed to change, not be given a lecture on how busy the devs are.

analog merlin Jan 30, 2024, 11:01 AM

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Because you asked specifically and mentioned the new play boosters so that's the answer you were given.

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"such as using the new Play Booster format for sets earlier than Karlov Manor?"

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The new play booster was not a "simple one line change" you can see that for yourself if you look at the implementation of it on our GitHub.

The method you're now using of a "simple one line change" isn't going to carry over when you update Forge which is why I was explaining to you that your request of "custom" boosters isn't as simple as you think.

#Fantasy/Custom Boosters for Draft/Sealed?