Hi @Bot Developer

[kindred rock]

Feedback/Convo thread

[twilit yew]

interesting

[worn tiger]

Hi

[kindred rock]

Hi there

[green seal]

If we could view what changes language wise are suggested before applying them yes.

[robust patrol]

Hi beos

[modern cypress]

Would volunteers really want to do that ? 🤔
-# Maybe that should be a question in the poll.

[compact plaza]

Hi

[tepid roost]

would prefer like discord does it with app dir, manual translation - maybe a toggle to choose

[kindred rock]

Either would be supported ofcourse

if we build the bot edit page around localized tags, you would be able to do it too

[undone parcel]

I think an opt-in to both and the editting portion of would be cool

[kindred rock]

fair enough

[lapis aurora]

yeah we should be able to review what the volunteers translated first

[crude granite]

I think it kinda depends on the translation aspect- like, if the bot itself supports multiple languages, then it makes sense. But if the page gets, say, a Spanish translation and the bot doesn't support Spanish, that could be a bit disappointing or misleading for users

[vernal tangle]

Would it be possible to edit it ourselves? Some bots already have their translators

[rustic trellis]

Sounds good !

[vernal tangle]

I think that it's a good idea on paper, but who would volunteer to do that? Some people translate the website because they like top.gg, but a Discord bot they don't know?

[kindred rock]

yes

[kindred rock]

It's an hypothetical idea. If there's demand for it we can make it work

[pallid dove]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[kindred rock]

this is already planned :) that's why that's not part of the question

[fervent sluice]

Maybe if we could approve changes, i dont really like the idea of someone being able to edit it without my approval

[compact plaza]

if there was a page for suggested changes and we could accept and apply them then yeah. but if they could just straight up edit bot pages no.

[pallid dove]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[kindred rock]

There would be an audit log with a history where you can revert changes made if neccessary

Generally though, we do want to be able to freely change them if you opt in, so we can continuously pass over them, and improve the page

[mild spade]

This is the only way I’d opt in. Someone could just have a competing bot for all we know and start slandering our work and putting whatever they want there to ruin the reputation of our work. It shouldn’t be just added there automatically. It should have to be approved first to avoid this.

[vernal otter]

hi guys

[unkempt cloud]

real

[indigo snow]

Sigma

[inner lion]

I think being able to approve the changes before they go live would be beneficial

[buoyant valley]

Would the page be automatically changed or would we be able to review the edits?

[kindred rock]

Keep in mind there will be a internal process around this. We won't allow anyone (wikipedia style) to edit it

[manic harness]

Only approved moderators would be able to do this, so you shouldnt have to worry about this

yeah

[halcyon gazelle]

How would localisation work on bot description that use iframe

[indigo snow]

Awman! No more editing a bot with 3 servers desecration to say it got shut down 😭

[modern cypress]

I was also thinking that only the popular bots would receive help from the volunteers team, if they can choose which bots to edit.

[dusky dust]

If the bot page is translated to a different language, but the bot doesn't support that language, is that misleading to the user who installs the bot?

[twilit adder]

Honestly I think it would be better to be able to 👍 👎 the accuracy of a description rather than have someone edit it for you. Then the bot dev could get a notice that "users don't think your description is accurate! You should update it"

[mild spade]

Plus how does this work with verified bots on the discovery platform?

[kindred rock]

That could work, but could also be spammy as a way to annoy competitors

[mild spade]

This is why I’ve been trying to localise my bot on the backend lately.

[kindred rock]

we cant translate iframes, so you wont get it :(

I'm overall not a fan of iframes because it makes the website slow for users

[wanton garden]

Just block them from top.gg

[warm orchid]

I would be interested if and when the volunteer were to edit the description or add new description in any other language, we get a notification for approval or something. Even if we don't know the language we can use some sort of translator to understand if at least the essence is right and core information is translated.

[wanton garden]

no more iframe for bot desc

[kindred rock]

people use it so we can't just block it

[wanton garden]

make a survey

[mild spade]

I just deleted my bot page to replace with a new one, so this might be a good system. But there has to be a way for the developers to approve changes because it might be completely counter to the bots purpose or functionality. Because the person changing it didn’t check thoroughly enough.

[wanton garden]

[kindred rock]

instead we highly recommend using a text description

for example: your description is used for context in the new search system -- you will not benefit from this with an iframe

[thin pike]

My bot is only available in English so I wouldn't want to mislead non-English speaking users into thinking I support their language before inviting. So I'd rather have my page in English only.

[kindred rock]

Yeah we already have supported languages as an input

[mild spade]

If it can save me time translating a description I am all for it.

But changing the original English one? I really don’t feel right with it.

[kindred rock]

Makes sense! That's what i want to know from y'all

Generally what I'm getting from this is that overall localization is a wanted feature, and the majority of people would be open to let edits happen, but are cautious around their primary content

[fervent sluice]

Would these quality checkers have access to more data in terms of search visibility? I have put a quite bit of effort into my tags/short desc in the past to try and get the most visibility, but if these quality reviewers have access to more data than we do i could see it being useful, but id be concerned that they’d start changing tags and lowering visibility and not improving it

Example: quality reviewer changes my tag from “giveaway to “giveaway bot” because it “looks nicer” or for some other reason, but what if the “giveaway” tag gets more search visibility than “giveaway bot”

Just an example, i have no idea if this is accurate or not, but i could maybe see this happening if they dont have access to data to back it up

[compact plaza]

I would only opt in if I was able to review the changes made by said volunteer then approve or deny them before they go live to my bots page.

[mild spade]

But it should also be clear that the bot only supports the set languages it supports. If that means we add a section to the description prior. They yeah sure. But translating it to unsupported languages can make us look bad when the bot doesn’t use them.

[crude granite]

yeah thats what Im saying

[cyan void]

I think it's a cool idea. I do not like the idea of someone else editing my content. I would suggest maybe a system where the person that is reviewing it where they can suggest I shouldn't type it out and then the developers owner approve it or not

[thin pike]

People don't read the sidebar though, and this information isn't even available on the main tab on mobile which is the majority of my traffic. I do everything I can to NOT have people landing in my support server and I do a good job at that. I don't want people coming in asking how to change the language because they saw the page was in theirs before inviting. If the page were ONLY translated into the supported languages that I choose on my bot page settings then that would be a more valuable feature imo.

[kindred rock]

That make sense, for the tags specifically: we are heavily working on removing duplicate tags so in the future this will not be a concern

I do not want it to be destructive ofcourse

[kindred rock]

Sorry, the intention is that we don't need to translate your bot in languages you don't support.

[thin pike]

Oh I see! Ok. Yeah then that's fine right? If I only choose English it won't get translated?

[kindred rock]

The idea is that it makes no sense to try and show your bot users who are portuguese, if they do not speak any languages your bot support

[mild spade]

So it’s basically doing everything we want and the only concern is the changing of original content.

[kindred rock]

Yes.

[kindred rock]

yep, that's why we're doing this poll

to see how people feel about it

[thin pike]

Ok cool! Yeah I didn't understand that's what you were proposing

[mild spade]

If it saves me £500 a month on hiring a translator hell yeah.

[pallid dove]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[kindred rock]

check in with #topgg-api

[tepid jetty]

I could charge that to translate stuff for people?

i wish I knew that before

[pallid dove]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[midnight epoch]

There have to be clear guidelines and indicators for this as this content is often referred to by Discord support even.

[pallid dove]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[cyan void]

I have hesitations letting my own team that have worked with me for 5 plus years my edit my stuff much less a stranger

[pallid dove]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[midnight epoch]

Eg. Remember the invite tracking fiasco

[mild spade]

Company 😂 it’s a company idk translator costs on fiverr

[simple chasm]

We should be able to help you

[tepid jetty]

@kindred rock are you planning to hire people from different countries so you get as many people speaking different languages as possible?

[kindred rock]

Could you elaborate? we have quite comprehensive guidelines for our staff.

[hollow lava]

I would be very interested

[zenith lark]

i might have missed this, is there currently a way to localize my bot page? i have translations but couldn't find a way to add them.
otherwise that's the only part of this that I'm interested in

but it feels weird to only add support for that in this way

[mild spade]

This is facts. Tho discord tend to go off app discovery first.

[foggy gulch]

I don’t want editors having write access to my primary content, but would be okay with them being able to make suggestions we could approve or deny.
My concern is localizing bot descriptions/pages will lead many to assume the bot also supports that language which many still won’t

[kindred rock]

totally fair, the first point is why we're doing the poll before investing into the program. It's our way to ensure that we do things directly that bot devs like.

On your second point, we will only translate your description in languages you have as "supported languages" on your bot page.

[foggy gulch]

That’s fine then, would make more sense though to just require people to localize it themselves if they claim additional supported languages

[midnight epoch]

Discord once banned a bot for “invite tracking” while it didn’t offer this. It was false advertising on their part but was only listed like this on top.gg or something. Obviously only before app dir.

[jagged pawn]

I was curious, then read the message again and noticed the word "volunteer"

[kindred rock]

Ah, noted. Yes that's a good point. We will definitely take that into account

[jagged pawn]

I mean it makes sense, translators are expensive, but I was hopeful lol (I used to translate for gov.t)

[kindred rock]

Generally we've had good success with volunteer translations, and we do have an okay volunteer budget to make sure they get somewhat compensated for the work they do

[jagged pawn]

Ah that makes more sense. I generally associate volunteer with unpaid

(fwiw when I did it, it was 8-10 cents per word, but that's legal stuff which is complicated)

[mild spade]

Volunteering is work without the expectation of payment or compensation. But you can still pay, compensate or reward them if they do a good job.

[jagged pawn]

In any case I really love the idea. I don't know if this has been mentioned but my only concern would be brigading and vandalism in the case that everybody is allowed to submit translations but I doubt that's going to be the case

[fervent tusk]

I think it would be great for top.gg to support translations but I’d rather keep control of the content to make sure that the languages on the site are consistent with those supported by the app and also that the translations are high quality and consistent with the translated content in the app.

[grave jackal]

surprised veld didnt use the discord poll feature for this instead of reactions

[gentle turret]

I feel the best option would be for people to be able to opt-in or not when they are getting the bot approved

[grave jackal]

who would verify the translations? basically to stop someone from putting a translation in some language nobody is proficient in, saying "this bot sucks" inside the text?

[modern cypress]

There already was a debate about Discord's polls feature in the previous thread. 👀

[stark nymph]

I'm ok in opting in, but i have some concerns about the integrity of translations and maintenance as im sure there is a lot of bad intentions out there

[mild spade]

This is also a concern but most llms support all languages so you can do a quick check with that.

I had ChatGPT correct google translate.

[jagged pawn]

My bot description is going to be ignore all previous instructions in ancient Hebrew

[grave jackal]

i think i trust a random internet troll more than i trust an LLM

[mild spade]

🤣

[grave jackal]

my main bot cant be retranslated by a user anyway... the content comes from my website in an iframe

[mild spade]

I trust my llm more than I trust my colleagues.

[mild spade]

They said Iframe descriptions won’t be included

[mild spade]

Id love if that worked but competent system prompts account for this user input.

[grave jackal]

something important to consider is, unless your BOT has localisations in the language the page is being translatred to, it doesnt make sense

like, if a bot doesnt have its commands and output in turkish, no need making a turkish translation of the bot page except for SEO because the minute someone who understands the bot page installs the bot, they wont be able to understand how to work it.

[mild spade]

They also said only localisations to languages the bot supports.

[grave jackal]

how do they know? from the drop down list?

this list needs to be expanded, discord itself has many more languages in its list than top.gg does, and my bots support most of them

[mild spade]

Idk that I think they will check for a supported languages section.

[mild spade]

Nice, how’d you translate them? Hire a company or fiverr?

[grave jackal]

i started with google translate, and then let volounteers loose

i have a constantly changing mass of text that isnt something i can continually pay someone to do

triviabot has over 200,000 questions for example, in about 15 languages

[mild spade]

Interesting. I know my ai commands just need the commands localised as the output matches the language the user uses in the prompt. But yeah. Sounds like a plan.

[grave jackal]

most of my translations pre-date LLMs being a thing

[mild spade]

I bet

I killed my old boy to make a new one better and use ai on it. To assist in localisations.

[grave jackal]

im planning a big rewrite of how my questions/answers are displayed as soon as components v2 is out

[mild spade]

Components?

[grave jackal]

yes

[mild spade]

Clerk? Stripe?

[grave jackal]

https://dpp.dev/components_v2.html

[mild spade]

Ohhhh the discord c++ library

[grave jackal]

we are just waiting on discord to release this out of experimental

then it can replace embeds, we can do stuff like put images in the middle of an embed

[mild spade]

I wonder if DJS will support that… interesting. Might have to rewrite to c++

[grave jackal]

it will

practically every major lib already has support, but hasnt released it until discord unlock the feature

[mild spade]

But yeah. Translations are always an issue for me. So if topgg wants to take the description and translate it. I’m just gonna run it through a comparison app and see if it’s ok then go with it.

I don’t want to waste more time and money paying someone to translate the description too. They are already doing my websites and bots.

[grave jackal]

ive never paid for translations, only graphics

[mild spade]

I found a company locally that does localisations for websites and convinced them to add my bots to the list too.

Was easier for me. I’m not in many servers so have limited users to ask to volunteer localisations for.

I realised that as I only provide to the uk USA and Canada I need English, Welsh, Irish, Spanish, French, German, African, mandarin….

It’s a lot of languages spoken in these three countries.

[grave jackal]

welsh?

welsh is a bit obscure isnt it?

[mild spade]

It’s highly spoken in wales still

We have to support it on all government websites.

[grave jackal]

same with irish, both are old old languages, pretty useless for modern conversation, just try putting "current cluster id" in welsh lol

you basically have to paraphrase?

seems like theyre kept alive to preserve history

[mild spade]

No clue but if the gov supports it and says it’s highly recommended for services operating in the uk then ima support it.

[grave jackal]

nah it isnt

i live in the uk

unless youre in wales, nobody speaks welsh, and in wales only a subset of people use it actively

its tought to everyone to keep it alive

(in wales)

Welsh language - Wikipedia
Almost half of all Welsh speakers consider themselves fluent, while 20 per cent are able to speak a fair amount. 56 per cent of Welsh speakers speak the language daily, and 19 per cent speak the language weekly.

[mild spade]

Alright time to remove those two from the list… now it’s just all the other languages that have arrived from immigration and are still highly spoken.

[grave jackal]

it likely isnt worth your time to translate to

irish may be even rarer, its a form of celtic i think, but dont quote me on its popularity or use idk

[mild spade]

Localisation is going to be a pain…

[grave jackal]

time to return to work, back later

[manic harness]

we would know this from the languages you list as supported on your top.gg page

[mild spade]

Did the ruls for adding bots change? They look different from when I added my last bot. Because I never had to add this when I did it before.

[manic harness]

As we added new features we added the ability to list more things on your bot page, yes. We only require one language but youre welcome to add more if you support them

[mild spade]

Ok thats good thanks

I know you added a privacy requirement too, which I love as GDPR is a massive thing here

[umbral arrow]

Id feel like its a good idea. My censorn is what if your bot only supports one lanugage

[manic harness]

Then we wouldnt do any localization

[umbral arrow]

So its only if you can support it. ok

[simple anvil]

I see the appeal for this, but I'm thinking it'd make more sense to have a toggle somewhere so the bot developers can opt their page in or out. If they opt-in, I think a menu should appear letting us tick checkboxes for the languages we support, and include the option to auto-localize our page into our desired languages using Top.gg's localization settings or if we want to write our own localizations, provide a way for us to write our localizations ourselves, which Top.gg would then use for localizing our page. This is my take on the idea, and I'm sure others have the same sentiment wanting more autonomy and control over the localizations for our pages, as localizing our pages of our own accord for the languages we DO support so it's clear to our current and prospective users, and if a user wants support for another language, the decision to support that language remains in our hands instead of potentiially misrepresenting the languages we support if our bot doesn't actually support that language.

[kindred rock]

we have proof readers in the team

[autumn cairn]

I'm all for it only as long as developers get to approve changes before they're publicized

[olive shoal]

I like this solution analysis. As a Translator BOT developer I prefere to have control to the content pages.

[mild spade]

Your bot does translations? That’s sick!

[simple anvil]

Thanks! I find as bot developers, we function as "independent entities" with our bots as our product, and the language choice and publicity is ultimately our responsibility. Some may choose to outsource part of that responsibility, and others may choose to keep it "in house". I did my best to encapsulate that idea in my solution analysis for localization, but could be applied to other topics just as easily

[flat ore]

definitely a need, since our main user base is Turkish we can't change our short and long descriptions. and I believe we miss a lot of foreign users because of no localization.

[languid tinsel]

It'd be nice to have it kept up to date, I frequently forget and I think my description is still from the Discord.JS v11 era.

[sharp elk]

Even if it’s a profiled team that would be allowed to make the edits I do believe it would be better if instead of them having direct access they can just reach out to us and discuss the improvements that they identified

[simple anvil]

Here's a UI draft I came up with for my proposed solution analysis. (If Top.gg wants to use this as a basis for implementation, feel free!)

[mild spade]

its simple, but beautiful.

[tepid roost]

add uwu english /j

[silk kayak]

I'd vote yes if it was an opt-in feature, many pages wouldn't be as simple to translate due do iframes or fine tuned css

just having a way to write multiple longdescs ourselves would be more than enough imo

I made language buttons on my own cuz it didnt exist

[grave jackal]

my bot supports many more languages than top.gg supports, one of them supports the entire range of languages discord does... is the list on top.gg to be expanded to include them?

[manic harness]

we hope to expand, yes. wed like to support whatever we can argue is worthwhile to

[kindred rock]

thats cool, thanks for sharing :)

[kindred rock]

we plan to support 14 languages at the end of the year

[simple anvil]

of course! Thought I'd provide a visual example demonstrating my solution analysis. It turned out far better than I thought it would for a wireframe. If the team likes the design, you're more than welcome to use it.

[near night]

this sounds really cool. my only concerns really would be:

• will it be marked that the translations were provided by-dev vs by-top.gg?

• how will you handle translation of images containing text? (like screenshots of discord interaction with the bot?)

[novel pendant]

Do they just edit the page to their liking or they give suggestions and stuff?

[kindred rock]

Right now, we don't do anything

[novel pendant]

If it were to be a thing

What would be the actions done to the bot page, direct changes or suggestions to the bot owner?

[kindred rock]

I mean for now it's up in the air both could be a possibility.

[novel pendant]

Well it would be cool for example to do direct changes but notify the owner using the discord bot and in dms stating the changes and a before and after preview with a possibility to revert changes

[kindred rock]

Yeah that would be cool indeed! I think it really depends on how comfortable people are with their listings. Generally we do want to offer translations though

[novel pendant]

Translation sounds needed nowadays

[novel pendant]

But like other changes would be cool to be like this

Translation however is needed

[inner lion]

add pirate english and there will be NO complaints from me 🙌

[graceful narwhal]

Lmaooo we just did this for Streamcord. I was the one who did those translations🤣

[jolly nexus]

I second this

Again, we did it at Streamcord and it's been fun

[rustic trellis]

Has it already been asked how people will be chosen?

[manic harness]

What people?

[rustic trellis]

Those who translate

[manic harness]

It would be part of our volunteer team / moderators + reviewers

[rustic trellis]

Perfect!

[keen helm]

What languages were we thinking of adding?

I already saw a few but what's the demographic lookin like?

[green seal]

I'd imagine any language that a large amount of people would be willing to translate

ie Spanish, German, Dutch, French, Swedish, Chinese ect ect..

[compact plaza]

Hy

[hard sorrel]

Hey

[undone parcel]

@proud crown

[proud crown]

ty

[rotund token]

very good news

[umbral arrow]

What ever happened to this