Hi @Bot Developer

[deep stirrup]

curious to hear what you think

[final dagger]

I mean this isn't going to change the UI much, where would the total count be shown?

[eternal mason]

love the idea!

[tiny stone]

yes

[glacial bobcat]

What are the votes for?

[errant cedar]

No

[deep stirrup]

the count would be the same

[grave valley]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[teal jolt]

so much reactions in a few seconds

[balmy flower]

much better

[final dagger]

Ranking / Free Advertising

[outer sphinx]

yes please

[frail torrent]

I prefer resets

[north meadow]

Yes

[idle sail]

would also avoid the confusion of "where did my votes go" in #support

[deep stirrup]

basically the only thing that changes here is that you would keep your votes 1st of the month, and votes would expire in 31 days instead

[vestal bay]

I think it is better because it gives an accurate view of how active the bot is how many users are voting it per month. Gives a better idea to a new user instead of having to invite to see if it's good

[brazen fiber]

It would make a lot more sense to do a persistent score. It would also solve the index problem at the beginning of each month

[idle sail]

And this ^

[tiny stone]

yes

[carmine spindle]

I feel resetting isn’t really needed and make leaderboard more competitive/accurate

[forest axle]

I prefer resets this would only benefit big bots rather than trending / small bots

[haughty rampart]

Why not.

[deep stirrup]

yea that's definitely something that gets solved from this

[orchid dawn]

very nice

last 31

[young raven]

Both should be a thing since they give you different information

[teal jolt]

hh

[azure raptor]

Just give us a good heads up, lots of bots depend on the reset monthly right now

[deep stirrup]

yea definitely

[eternal mason]

i think there should be two leaderboards, one for trending (last 31 days) and one for overall

[versed galleon]

would make the score more meaningful

[brazen fiber]

Thank you for making a poll Veld, I appreciate that you ask for the opinion of the community 🙂

[meager carbon]

by persistent you mean a rolling window?

[deep stirrup]

Yeah

Votes would expire after 31 days

so if I vote on jan 15, my vote would show on your total score for only two more days

[idle sail]

Maybe it'd be an idea to show Lifetime votes on the botpage somewhere then

[meager carbon]

yes, that would seem cleaner

[graceful drum]

this is gonna make smaller bots harder to grow imo

[forest axle]

Yeah that would be good

[graceful drum]

with ranking

[solar dragon]

Life time votes?

[forest axle]

Facts

[idle sail]

total_votes, its the total votes a bot has received in its lifetime on the site

i mean it's already in the api, just not used on the site.

[solar dragon]

Look at very big Bots. They would have millions of votes 24/7

[solar dragon]

Ohhh

[brazen fiber]

Why? If you get votes for 31 days, you're where you're supposed to be in the ranking

[idle sail]

yes, mudae would have 3.4~ million average monthly votes

which is accurate

[autumn hollow]

choice 2 is better because
It'll save you the trouble of starting the month with a low ranking.

[deep stirrup]

I guess the argument of needing to wait 31 days sucks

before catching up

[idle sail]

it changes nothing really, just the visual of how many votes. Not sure it would change trending much as it would essentially still rely on average monthly votes

[deep stirrup]

which now is the worst case

[solar dragon]

I'm always below 30 votes XD

[lost sandal]

-# If you vote for Miki now, you probably won't get voting rewards because it broke since a restart.

[autumn hollow]

[graceful drum]

hm

[deep stirrup]

did i break it again?

[idle sail]

All it essentially changes it is would look like this

[undone spoke]

To add onto the announcement it would be nice if votes were counted dated back to the start of discord bot list/top.gg ! ~ Signed a developer that is edging closer to a decade listed here.

[idle sail]

instead of this

[idle sail]

they are

in the api total_votes

[undone spoke]

This makes me smile

[idle sail]

Mudae has receieved 213,345,843 total votes

Abuse (your bot) has 3,410

[undone spoke]

Sounds about right

[median rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/you-have-to-hit-the-reset-button-sophie-how-i-met-your-father-you-need-to-restart-it-you-must-press-the-reset-button-gif-17035132799741186807

[undone spoke]

Relatively small

[tacit kindle]

Mine barely has like 40 lmao

[manic temple]

for sure

[eternal mason]

woah where can i see this?

sorry offtopic

[fresh mauve]

Show votes for last 3 months
Where last month = 1 vote
2 months ago votes = 0.5 votes
3 months ago votes = 0.25 votes
(And then truncate the decimal to get an int)

[idle sail]

https://topstats.gg

-# In no way afficliated with top.gg in any manner, it's community made

[eternal mason]

that's awesome thank you

[vocal kernel]

Ads! Banbanbzn

[idle sail]

Wont be around for much longer if Veld replaces us :^) /s

[vocal kernel]

Yikes

Top.gg nuking topstats.gg

[idle sail]

Nah fr tho, i'm happy to see top.gg be worked on lol

[idle sail]

nah we're diversifying

lots planned

[vocal kernel]

https://topstats.gg/anime i see marco has been hard at work

[idle sail]

xD

[undone spoke]

It would have been cool if discord opened up the api to data from their bot listing. Could see some interesting stats for how we rank among other bots on the platform. Top.gg is the only realistic way to do that at scale on discord but obviously doesn’t include every bot.

[idle sail]

main issue we found with trying to track this

is ratelimits

the api and data is there for the public to fetch

but in order for us to fetch them it'd be 45000 fetches over a certain amount of time and thats assuming the user has added their bot to discovery

[undone spoke]

Yeah I was going to stay that relies on discovery

It is interesting tho to have all this data as a developer especially over the years

[supple pewter]

I want to add smth, you guys can fetch only one page which allows to get the description of bots to import them

[undone spoke]

You can literally see the peaks of when my bots was most popular because of top.gg stats. lol I find that greatly interesting

[idle sail]

data goes back to 2019 for some bots afaik

[undone spoke]

My bot goes back to 2019 on the stats site

Idk if there’s data on top.gg end that goes back farther

[vocal kernel]

Afaik it isn't stored longer than needed for what's shown on the site

Like when votes reset the data literally gets erased

[idle sail]

^ votes are stored in redis

[undone spoke]

That would be a shame

[idle sail]

[regal patrol]

WHY PING

JUST DO IT

[idle sail]

lmao

[vocal kernel]

Andre will be the first to complain when there's an update he doesn't like

[tacit kindle]

[shell latch]

Just a question, would search results with votes still work of monthly amounts or persistent? Because I feel like that could be a little unbalanced

[idle sail]

search would likely be more consistent

because it wouldnt have to deal with a complete reset every month

[vocal kernel]

Search gets messed up at the start of every month because of the reset. The search experience would actually be better

[idle sail]

The reset affects a lot more than you'd expect tbh

[undone spoke]

As someone who lives on the east coast of the US the vote reset time was so wonky that I’d be able to vote twice before they actually showed being reset

Tbf that was to my advantage for like a day

[idle sail]

Stops the confusion of "why did my votes reset when a user voted!!!"

[undone spoke]

But no realistic gain lol

[idle sail]

votes resetting relys on a user voting after UTC midnight

[vocal kernel]

Yeah but now it'll be "why are my votes lower than they were yesterday?"

You can't win that battle

[undone spoke]

How would they be lower if they are lifetime votes?

[idle sail]

I mean, if you add an explanation of how votes work in the submission process it might

[vocal kernel]

Or "why isn't my vote count going up anymore? It's been at 300 for weeks"

[idle sail]

also means people get an insight into votes before they get approved

for those who read anyway

and we know plenty of people dont

because clones still get added

[undone spoke]

I personally would not read

[vocal kernel]

Nobody reads, Luke

[idle sail]

yea, never trust the customer

[undone spoke]

I try stuff until it breaks

[idle sail]

and K.I.S.S

[undone spoke]

I read that as delete yourself and got concerned

[idle sail]

nah

Keep it simple stupid

[vocal kernel]

I'm fine with keeping it as it is or the 30d thing tbh. Either way is good for me

[idle sail]

I would like to get rid of the reset for personal reasons

[vocal kernel]

Just some devs might be confused about their vote count stagnating

[idle sail]

:^)

[idle sail]

just ends up replacing the people confused about it resetting

[vocal kernel]

Yeah agreed. It doesn't solve that problem is what I mean.

Not that it's a problem

[idle sail]

yea thats fair

honestly it makes more sense stagnating

similar to how minecraft sites handle voting

it's the only example I can think of tbh

[vocal kernel]

Yeah I agree. It's no longer "who's popular this month" it's "who's been consistently performing better over the last 30d"

[idle sail]

yea

and mudae has been at the top consistently every month since 2019 afaik

i think

[deep stirrup]

its ok

we can make number always go up

[vocal kernel]

Yeah it wouldn't change the ordering, it would just prevent the monthly reset search shenanigans

[idle sail]

nvm I cant know

[deep stirrup]

[idle sail]

cause it happened in 2019 too

and 2020

[vocal kernel]

Pls luke stop. This gives me PTSD from working at Top.gg

[idle sail]

Bro its happened nearly every year

since 2019

[deep stirrup]

not anymore

(no promises)

[idle sail]

when veld fixed it

pretty sure thats when you were here in 2022?

[deep stirrup]

probably

[idle sail]

and asked us for the data and it took me all night to go through mongo

[deep stirrup]

actually 2022?

no

i was gona alr

[idle sail]

Ah then it got fixed

[vocal kernel]

And then Medal removed the server list and it went whoopsy

[idle sail]

itrs happened every year

[undone spoke]

It sounds like fun times

[idle sail]

apart from this year

5 years in a row

[dawn trout]

wow i didnt get pinged cause i dont have bot dev 😭

[idle sail]

veld time to have a clean year

[deep stirrup]

when was it in 2021

[idle sail]

:^)

[deep stirrup]

L xiuh

[vocal kernel]

Skill issue

[deep stirrup]

YEAAA BABY

we fixed that one

[idle sail]

ah

that was the me exporting mongo one i guess

its easier now

[undone spoke]

I found about dbl cause of Galkon (who works at Metal) 😭 back in like 2017 2018

[idle sail]

timescale is so much better lmao

[deep stirrup]

[idle sail]

cant wait to bin off mongo

[dawn trout]

i vote last 31 days

[vocal kernel]

I tried mongo for like 2 days before switching to mysql when i started bot dev

[dawn trout]

if my vote matters, since i dont have BD

[vocal kernel]

News flash. It doesn't.

[undone spoke]

That database is like 3 cod downloads crazy

[vocal kernel]

[idle sail]

compared to timescale btw

[undone spoke]

Yooo he turned it into 1.5 cod downloads

[idle sail]

and because of the way we designed the database it's actually double the rows

mongo has 1.1 billion documents

timescale has 2.2 billion rows

[undone spoke]

I strive to have that many rows of data in my life

[idle sail]

dont

its hell

[undone spoke]

The most I’ve generated is a few million rows

[idle sail]

migrating took a week

solid

[undone spoke]

Data brings me joy

[vocal kernel]

I purposefully delete data as much as possible lol

[idle sail]

and the migration script broke when i was on a ferry to germany

[undone spoke]

We are not the same people lol

[idle sail]

and I did have access to my laptop so had to fix is via my phone

[undone spoke]

Okay that’s suffering

[idle sail]

but nah, honestly veld getting rid of the reset saves me time

so im all for it lmao

it fixes more than it breaks

[long kettle]

Ah yes, sawtooth wave

[idle sail]

@vocal kernel tbf aswell, im pretty sure it'll illeviate support more than cause issues in the long run

you get rid of the search issues and ranking issues right?

[long kettle]

*alleviate

[vocal kernel]

Yeah it's a net gain imo. It introduces some questions from devs but solves more than it introduces.

[idle sail]

questions that can be solved with an faq too

cause they're answerable questions rather than a "yea its kinda broken we know, but this is why"

[vocal kernel]

tooltip next to the vote count lol

[idle sail]

👀 I was gonna suggest that tbf

xD

we were gonna do that on topstats

[vocal kernel]

Grate minds

brb calculating my 30d vote count

[idle sail]

you dont need too

[vocal kernel]

hmm?

[idle sail]

You average 24,000 per month

in the last 6 months

[vocal kernel]

hawt

[idle sail]

I fucking love what xig did with the graphs

the trends being broke cause of the reset annoy me

[graceful igloo]

By 31 days do you mean a person's vote gets removed from the count after 31 days?

I feel like that would be a good idea as its a good mix between both systems

[deep stirrup]

they can still vote every 12 hours

but the vote lasts on your count for 31 days

[graceful igloo]

Ah yes that's a good system in that case

Nice idea im all for it

[sand estuary]

Hard no. It would make it impossible to see anything other than the bots with millions of votes until you scroll WAY down.

[vocal kernel]

it doesn't actually make any difference

[idle sail]

this is still the case currently, if anything getting rid of the reset makes search and rankings more consistent and reliable

considering the trending algo likely uses the average vote increase over time rather than current votes anyway. (This is just a guess)

[sand estuary]

I hope that is the case, because otherwise getting rid of the reset will mean new bots have to not only outpace each month's leaders, but also earn more total votes than every leading bot in the history of top.gg just to get near the top.

Which is my main concern with this proposal.

[idle sail]

I think you missunderstood what Veld was saying

[sand estuary]

I usually do 😔

[idle sail]

Your votes will still technically be at 0 if you recieve 0 votes over 31 days

Say for example.

• I voted for your bot on 14th January 2025
• I then don't vote on 15th Febuary 2025

Thats when my vote no longer counts towards your votes

It's just meaning your votes are consistently their average rather than resetting every month

I can give you a visual to help one sec

[sand estuary]

ohhhh I see, I definitely misread Veld's message

the total is the rolling 31 days of votes

yea that's so much better

[idle sail]

-# ignore the fall off the end in AFTER

this is essentially all it would mean

[idle sail]

glad I could help 😄

[vocal kernel]

"sO mY VoTes wiLL gO dOwn?"

[idle sail]

thats mudae

they've actually averaged less and less since covid

lmao

[vocal kernel]

skill issue

[idle sail]

not even kidding

covid was mad

[vocal kernel]

yeah it was

[idle sail]

they've essentially just levelled out at around 4m votes per month

i also just found a annoying UX issue thanks to doing that example

[tulip marsh]

Show lifetime vote count instead 😄

[idle sail]

that is pointless, because then it would just be an arbitrary number

using the monthly vote count over time gives an idea of activity

just for a quick example

Mudae would show somewhere close to 213-260 MILLION votes on front page right now

[tulip marsh]

Then maybe move the vote count away from the vote button?

For example moving it to beside the server count

[idle sail]

this was suggested

[idle sail]

also monthly votes will likely stay on the button

it's a useful metric for users

as for showing the total votes. This was suggested, unsure if veld will do it though

[midnight tangle]

I mean rn that's already the case, let's say your bot gets approved on the 15th of a month, you lost 15 days of voting. (though it would slightly increase that window)

Additionally, I often get too lazy to vote or ask people for it around the 29th/30th because it's kinda useless by then, especially that search sorting is kinda slow with representing the correct order

[deep stirrup]

Yeah my argument here is that the "worst case scenario" is a now the expected scenario

[midnight tangle]

and I disagree that it would make it harder for small bots, the only thing this changes is the number being consistent - it's not just consistently higher for big bots at the beginning of a month, but also for small bots

[deep stirrup]

e.g. if you submit your bot on the 15th you have 15 days where you will be misplaced

whereas with the new system you'll have 31 days where you will be misplaced

[humble hawk]

[midnight tangle]

I mean yeah, but you could also argue with that new bots are in the "trending new bots" section for a period of time, helping with initial visibility

[deep stirrup]

oh definitely

should speed up initial voters too

generally I personally agree this is the way to go, but I wanted to hear from the community too

[midnight tangle]

yeah that's fair, and I really like it being a poll

[deep stirrup]

It's something so ... culture-like to top.gg after so many years hahaha

oop 1st of the month all votes are 0

I will do more poll in the future

[midnight tangle]

for me the first few days are the days of broken search sorting

[deep stirrup]

yea that one sucks

that should be resolved with this!

although the search system will be improved in general soon

which im excited for :)

but that's after the frontend rewrite

[idle sail]

should find when the last community poll for a feature was, but yes, more polls are vert appreciated

[ornate python]

was a pleasant surprise

instead of site is down /s

[deep stirrup]

that would've worked last year

[ornate python]

noice

[lapis coral]

"Persistent scores" makes much more sense imo 👍

[midnight tangle]

in the side nav when searching, maybe have a toggle to choose between 31 day votes and monthly resetting votes (where 31 day votes would be the default)

[winged hollow]

Votes per month and sorting on top.gg would be a solution. Adding a trending section, with a specific algorithm, so people won‘t be able to cheat. Changing the buggy UI and adding more UX, cause many people dislike top.gg for the strange feeling… best luck!

[tepid mortar]

i like the idea
the only negative i can think of is:
the resets make it so a small bot with temporary large traffic during start of month has a chance of being closer to the top, 31 day average would make this impossible as they'd really need to match that kind of trend for a 31d period

[tepid mortar]

also don't do this cuz the only thing that will matter here is what the default is as that's what 99% of users will be using then

[wanton adder]

this is gonna make smaller bots harder to grow, i dont think this is a great idea

[idle sail]

It's not, nothing really changes, If anything it makes the site more consistent

well nothing changes apart from search getting messed up and votes being a race to who can reach their peak for the week

[wanton adder]

hm

[idle sail]

#1339761438377640029 message read this

[midnight tangle]

having the option is still nice though, no?

yes the default option will obviously be the most used option, but having options is still cool

99% of users don't use Google advanced search either, yet it's a cool thing to have

[wanton adder]

cant open

cant open

[midnight tangle]

it's a message in this thread

[idle sail]

essentially your votes will show how active your bot is instead of resetting every month which actually makes your ranking placement more consistant

and if you grow it'll stay consistant

this will likely work out better for smaller bots honestly

because it'll bring more consistent rankings for votes

[midnight tangle]

only real change is consistency and a part of solving the broken sorting on the first some days

[idle sail]

and search

this change will nuke the inconsistant sorting

[midnight tangle]

and only negative point is it taking 31 days to reach a relatively constant number

[idle sail]

yea, but thats going to affect everyone

[midnight tangle]

though the trending new bot section, which is literally on the home page, kinda solves this as well

[idle sail]

not really

if bot reviewers review bots fast enough you could be on the front page for like 10 minutes xD

[midnight tangle]

well

just pray for others to get denied /j

[idle sail]

:^)

I pray for veld to do some fancy shenanigans

[midnight tangle]

I remember someone launching a steam game and then 10 minutes later EA or smth relaunched like 30 titles on steam pushing down the indie dev

[tepid mortar]

the inconsistency is exactly what creates an opportunity for smaller bots

[idle sail]

yes, but it comes with the side effect of breaking search

which arguable will end up hurting small bots more often than not

chances are veld has more in mind for assisting small bot growth anyway

but constent voting numbers will make for a better UX

[tepid mortar]

difference between being at the bottom or being at the very bottom is not noticeable
difference between being towards the top or being at the bottom is noticeable

[idle sail]

Yea, but realistically the site has a worse experience with the search being broken and the reset is honestly jank as hell anyway, if veld removes that. Then proceeds to build a better algorithm then everyone wins

[vagrant swan]

Thinking Mood..!!

[midnight tangle]

the broken search on the beginning of a month objectively just push small bots further down even if they have more votes than bug bots

happened to me a lot that I had more votes 5-48h after vote reset and was ranked lower than big bots

[fringe valve]

Current system is good should be that only

[midnight tangle]

I think you should use the poll for that instead of writing

[midnight tangle]

native polls suck

especially since you can't add a message content

[azure raptor]

👀 I thought you could add content

[midnight tangle]

not that I'm aware of

plus eats up a lot of UI space

[lost sandal]

With these polls, we're forced to end the poll at a date that has been previously decided.

[midnight tangle]

that too

[ashen narwhal]

-# You can via the API but not with in-client UI

[azure raptor]

typical

[midnight tangle]

In case somebody wants to share this in other communities and people don't get it, maybe share this link https://shi.gg/blog/new-topgg-voting-system

[charred quiver]

this is really well formatted and well put, kudos!

[fringe valve]

I wish vote credits should be back again

[dusty elm]

the current system is good tbh

(even though people barely vote my bot)

[willow oasis]

I'm not sure if it's because of a raid or something else, but even the ChatGPT site uses Cloudflare, and it doesn't time out as quickly as Top.gg.

The Top.gg website keeps timing out, and I have to verify that I'm human every 15 minutes.

The time out should be more.

[azure raptor]

Its at 30 minutes iirc

30 minutes of not using the site*

[deep stirrup]

is it only for the vote page?

[willow oasis]

no the whole website is like this. kinda annoying.

[deep stirrup]

are you on a VPN?

[willow oasis]

most of the time.

is it bc of that?

[deep stirrup]

it could be

[willow oasis]

but chatgpt is only once.

[deep stirrup]

we're pretty tight on allowing automation on the site

[willow oasis]

u are right. on my static ip it wont ask.

[fringe valve]

ik a bot who uses automation for votes lol

for ur hint its having 7k votes and under top 10 music tag

if you check the vote account you will find them same since jan

how do i know the developer is friend of mine streamed the automation on rdp and told me how he setuped.

[tranquil sparrow]

isn't making persisten score killing new bots? because who is already feeded by consisten votes over time becomes simply unreacheable. unless is this the target you aim at.

[midnight tangle]

its just the last 31 days, not commulative since forever

https://shi.gg/blog/new-topgg-voting-system#criticism-of-the-proposed-system

[tranquil sparrow]

sorry, i guess i've read too fast. Ye this way seems nice

[regal patrol]

real

[boreal mist]

@deep stirrup

[midnight tangle]

it should be bluesky and remove twitter

[agile bear]

Around when will this drop?

[midnight tangle]

I'd assume after everything else is fixed

[vocal kernel]

Probably before GTA 6

[midnight tangle]

low bar

[agile bear]

OH MY GOD top.gg update before GTA-6

Never knew we would see so many things coming before GTA 6

[vocal kernel]

It's my new favourite ETA to give for everything

[midnight tangle]

'new'? that joke is older than I am

I'm about to get children before gta 6

[agile bear]

will your children play gta 6?

[deep stirrup]

Hi <@&265125253443878912>! Great news! This thread has been great. We will stop resetting votes in summer and rely on a 31 day sliding window method instead.

🫶 Thank you all for your input.

[midnight tangle]

when is 'summer'

[deep stirrup]

approximately june or july

[vocal kernel]

Before GTA 6

[charred quiver]

when is GTA 6

[vocal kernel]

After summer

[azure raptor]

Hype

[autumn hollow]

why not now ?

[deep stirrup]

because we need to prepare everything to be able to do it

[azure raptor]

so does topstats

[deep stirrup]

and we need to give bot developers space to move their systems around if they do anything specifically

[autumn hollow]

okay

[azure raptor]

Will it still be called "monthlyPoints" in the API?

[midnight tangle]

well technically it will be monthly in sense of last 31 days, which kinda is a month?

[azure raptor]

yeah my thoughts too.

[deep stirrup]

v0 api wont change

the only reason it changed for the api was limitations around not directly using a db in the web server lol

[solar dragon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1229119984509128754/1346480236014862427/togif.gif

[idle sail]

we actually dont need to change much honestly, since we only take hourly stats

[midnight tangle]

honestly don't think anyone has to change much really

maybe just wording

[regal patrol]

F U AND JUST DO IT

DONT PING US

[azure raptor]

Please be respectful, if you dont like pings its easy to turn off.

[regal patrol]

he pinged <@&265125253443878912>

[azure raptor]

Yep, just turn off notifications

[deep stirrup]

behave please

take a 5 minute breather to think about your actions

[midnight tangle]

I've been breathing for 20 years I know how this works

[wanton adder]

bro left

[azure raptor]

He was banned

[wanton adder]

Oh.

@azure raptor I've a question.

websockets-topgg.com
webhook-topgg.com

why are there specific domains for each page, i mean you guys can add on one domain like webhook.top.gg websockets.top.gg

[azure raptor]

Its not owned by top.gg, websockets and webhooks are owned by me.

Both are third party sites

[cerulean stream]

that might just give more accurate results so id like to see the change

[vocal kernel]

It's already live lol