development

[wheat mesa]

It’s a pretty big topic and I don’t really know a whole ton about it so people there might have more experience with advanced procgen

[sharp geyser]

Gotcha

Will find it

[trim urchin]

hello there,
I made a Discord bot called TB Tea — it lets you chat across different servers 👀
I need testers if anyone interested pingme

[deft wolf]

No thanks

[swift edge]

If I drop my bot website for public review here will it be promotion?

[stark kestrel]

If you're honest and want a review of it as kind of feedback, other people have done it - so doubt

[swift edge]

I just don’t wanna get muted for promoting

[stark kestrel]

Others did so very likely doubt

[sharp geyser]

I keep crashing studio

[stark kestrel]

Screenshots were also sent so 🤷‍♂️

[sharp geyser]

I think my terrain gen is too much 💀

[swift edge]

Sure

I’ll risk

[stark kestrel]

@oak cliff maybe you can confirm

[swift edge]

https://xlare.xyz ONLY FOR REVIEW

[stark kestrel]

But it's also the dev channel so yeah, makes it even more suited for feedbacks and such

[oak cliff]

as long as youre not asking people to use it and more just review how your site looks then yes thats fine

and you arent doing it like every day

[stark kestrel]

Style-wise looks like every (AI related) website these days, don't know if it's a template or all LLMs giving the same style

[swift edge]

Template

[stark kestrel]

That's fair then

[swift edge]

Focused more on dashboard

Just copied templates from mui Vercel

[stark kestrel]

The rest is fine, haven't logged in, just maybe that when you switch pages you don't get scrolled back to the top

[swift edge]

Oh would fix that

[sharp geyser]

@wheat mesa tadah

Even has caves

Do I fully understand the math and techniques, no not yet but I am sure I will after studying it a bit more

[lyric mountain]

gz

[sharp geyser]

I use chunks and stuff too

[lyric mountain]

btw, for the mountain stone u can base it off the difference between 2 coordinates in the noise map

[lament rock]

Is that with marching cubes?

[sharp geyser]

function fbm(x, z, octaves, frequency, amplitude, lacunarity, persistence)
    local total = 0
    local currentFrequency = frequency
    local currentAmplitude = amplitude

    for i = 0, octaves - 1 do
        total += math.noise(x * currentFrequency, z * currentFrequency) * currentAmplitude
        currentFrequency *= lacunarity
        currentAmplitude *= persistence
    end

    return total
end

local terrain = workspace.Terrain

terrain:Clear()

local WATER_LEVEL = 10
local MAP_SIZE = 1000
local MAX_HEIGHT = 200
local CHUNK_SIZE = 64
local RESOLUTION = 4

for cx = 0, MAP_SIZE - 1, CHUNK_SIZE do
    for cz = 0, MAP_SIZE - 1, CHUNK_SIZE do
        local xSize = math.min(CHUNK_SIZE, MAP_SIZE - cx)
        local zSize = math.min(CHUNK_SIZE, MAP_SIZE - cz)

        local materials = {}
        local occupancy = {}

        for xi = 1, xSize do
            materials[xi] = {}
            occupancy[xi] = {}
            local x = cx + xi - 1

            -- pre-calculate column data for this X row
            local columns = {}
            for zi = 1, zSize do
                local z = cz + zi - 1
                local biomeNoise = math.noise(x * 0.003, z * 0.003)
                local t = (biomeNoise + 0.5)
                t = t * t
                local amp = 2 + (150 - 2) * t
                local rawHeight = fbm(x, z, 6, 0.01, amp, 2, 0.3)
                local baseHeight = 10 + (60 - 10) * t
                local height = rawHeight + baseHeight

                local mat = Enum.Material.Grass
                if height < WATER_LEVEL + 1 then
                    mat = Enum.Material.Sand
                elseif rawHeight > amp * 0.7 then
                    mat = Enum.Material.Snow
                elseif rawHeight > amp * 0.4 then
                    mat = Enum.Material.Rock
                end

                columns[zi] = { height = height, mat = mat, t = t }
            end

            for yi = 1, MAX_HEIGHT do
                materials[xi][yi] = {}
                occupancy[xi][yi] = {}

                for zi = 1, zSize do
                    local col = columns[zi]

                    if yi <= col.height then
                        local isCave = false
                        if col.t > 0.4 and yi > WATER_LEVEL + 10 then
                            local caveNoise = math.noise((cx + xi - 1) * 0.03, yi * 0.03, (cz + zi - 1) * 0.03)
                            if caveNoise > 0.45 then isCave = true end
                        end

                        if isCave then
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = Enum.Material.Air
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 0
                        else
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = col.mat
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 1
                        end
                    else
                        if yi <= WATER_LEVEL then
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = Enum.Material.Water
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 1
                        else
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = Enum.Material.Air
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 0
                        end
                    end
                end
            end
        end

        local region = Region3.new(
            Vector3.new(cx * RESOLUTION, 0, cz * RESOLUTION),
            Vector3.new((cx + xSize) * RESOLUTION, MAX_HEIGHT * RESOLUTION, (cz + zSize) * RESOLUTION)
        )

        terrain:WriteVoxels(region, RESOLUTION, materials, occupancy)
        task.wait()
    end
end

Well this is how I currently do it

I don't understand it fully, especially the whole chunking thing. I just know doing it in chunks is faster somehow

[lyric mountain]

elseif rawHeight > amp * 0.4 then
  mat = Enum.Material.Rock
end

here, store the previous x (or any horizontal coordinate) and rawHeight values and compare with current, if the angle between them is higher than 0.75 (for example) then u set mat as stone

local steepness = abs(rawHeight - prevHeight) / abs(x - prevX)
...
elseif steepness >= 0.75 then
  mat = Enum.Material.Rock
end

[wheat mesa]

Chunking is to reduce rendering stress & worldgen stress

[lyric mountain]

make the threshold higher or lower depending on whether u want rock to appear sooner or later (lower for more stone, higher for less stone)

[wheat mesa]

You can represent each vertex within a chunk as a limited offset depending on your chunk size, and also you can offload meshing tasks and such to different threads

[lyric mountain]

can also use the steepness for stuff like tree generation to prevent trees in impossible slopes

[wheat mesa]

Also chunks make LODs easier to implement I think but not 100% sure

[lyric mountain]

for terrain LOD yeah, since you dont need to compare every single vertex with current position

[sharp geyser]

LOD?

[lyric mountain]

level of detail

[wheat mesa]

(Also makes GPU occlusion culling & frustum culling much easier)

[sharp geyser]

I see

[lyric mountain]

as in, nearer things are more detailed than the farther stuff

[wheat mesa]

That way you only have to compare the AABBs of chunks instead of block-by-block

[lyric mountain]

so you dont waste processing on things the viewer cant even notice

[sharp geyser]

Yeah I dont eve nwant to begin figuring out how to optimize this for roblox, especially when it comes to adding in prefabs, cause rn I am sure roblox will try and load everything in at once for the player

FPS go brrr

[sharp geyser]

AS for this, I don't understand the math here for steepness

[lyric mountain]

it's a basic slope angle formula

basically take two points in a 2d plane and check how "steep" the slope is between them

[wheat mesa]

y2 - y1 / x2 - x1

[lyric mountain]

goes from 0 (flat) to 1 (totally vertical)

[sharp geyser]

I feel like I learned this in math class

[wheat mesa]

You probably did

Slope of a line

[sharp geyser]

sounds like the slope formula thing

[lyric mountain]

it is

[sharp geyser]

yeah I kinda flunked math and barely paid attention, now I regret it

[lyric mountain]

that's a rlly useful formula for procgen when dealing with materials or prefab placements

I put abs there so u only get from 0 to 1, since you dont care whether the slope is upwards or downwards

[sharp geyser]

I fucked up

😭

[lyric mountain]

lmao

[sharp geyser]

I think I know why

im stupid

local WATER_LEVEL = 10
local MAP_SIZE = 1000
local MAX_HEIGHT = 200
local CHUNK_SIZE = 64
local RESOLUTION = 4

local prevX = 0
local prevHeight = 0

for cx = 0, MAP_SIZE - 1, CHUNK_SIZE do
    for cz = 0, MAP_SIZE - 1, CHUNK_SIZE do
        local xSize = math.min(CHUNK_SIZE, MAP_SIZE - cx)
        local zSize = math.min(CHUNK_SIZE, MAP_SIZE - cz)

        local materials = {}
        local occupancy = {}

        for xi = 1, xSize do
            materials[xi] = {}
            occupancy[xi] = {}
            local x = cx + xi - 1

            -- pre-calculate column data for this X row
            local columns = {}
            for zi = 1, zSize do
                local z = cz + zi - 1
                local biomeNoise = math.noise(x * 0.003, z * 0.003)
                local t = (biomeNoise + 0.5)
                t = t * t
                local amp = 2 + (150 - 2) * t
                local rawHeight = fbm(x, z, 6, 0.02, amp, 2, 0.2)
                local baseHeight = 10 + (60 - 10) * t
                local height = rawHeight + baseHeight
                
                prevX = x
                prevHeight = height
                
                local steepness = math.abs(rawHeight - prevHeight) / math.abs(x - prevX)
                

                local mat = Enum.Material.Grass
                if height < WATER_LEVEL + 1 then
                    mat = Enum.Material.Sand
                elseif rawHeight > amp * 0.7 then
                    mat = Enum.Material.Snow
                elseif steepness > amp * 0.4 then
                    mat = Enum.Material.Rock
                end

                columns[zi] = { height = height, mat = mat, t = t }
            end

            for yi = 1, MAX_HEIGHT do
                materials[xi][yi] = {}
                occupancy[xi][yi] = {}

                for zi = 1, zSize do
                    local col = columns[zi]

                    if yi <= col.height then
                        local isCave = false
                        if col.t > 0.4 and yi > WATER_LEVEL + 10 then
                            local caveNoise = math.noise((cx + xi - 1) * 0.03, yi * 0.03, (cz + zi - 1) * 0.03)
                            if caveNoise > 0.45 then isCave = true end
                        end

                        if isCave then
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = Enum.Material.Air
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 0
                        else
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = col.mat
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 1
                        end
                    else
                        if yi <= WATER_LEVEL then
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = Enum.Material.Water
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 1
                        else
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = Enum.Material.Air
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 0
                        end
                    end
                end
            end
        end

        local region = Region3.new(
            Vector3.new(cx * RESOLUTION, 0, cz * RESOLUTION),
            Vector3.new((cx + xSize) * RESOLUTION, MAX_HEIGHT * RESOLUTION, (cz + zSize) * RESOLUTION)
        )

        terrain:WriteVoxels(region, RESOLUTION, materials, occupancy)
        task.wait()
    end
end

I am assigning prevHeight and prevX right after calculating height

That would just do rawHeight - rawHeight no?

[lyric mountain]

prevHeight would be the rawHeight of the previously visited coordinate

[sharp geyser]

I need to set prevHeight after calulcating the steepness

[lyric mountain]

not the current coordinate

also, you'll need to choose what to do on the first coord, since it'll not have either information

[sharp geyser]

    local steepness = 0
                if zi > 1 then
                    steepness = math.abs(height - prevHeight)
                end
                prevHeight = height
                

                local mat = Enum.Material.Grass
                if height < WATER_LEVEL + 1 then
                    mat = Enum.Material.Sand
                elseif rawHeight > amp * 0.7 then
                    mat = Enum.Material.Snow
                elseif steepness > 3 then
                    mat = Enum.Material.Rock
                end

I honestly dont know what effect this had

It looks the same to me 😭

[lyric mountain]

note the rock walls on the mountains

[sharp geyser]

Ah yeah

This is very cool stuff

[lyric mountain]

now it's just a matter of finetuning

[sharp geyser]

yeah

I just am not sure what

for starters there's definitely too much water,

ima try changing WATER_LEVEL to a lower number

Does not seem to be enough

I want lakes, not small ponds

[lyric mountain]

you need biomes basically

like, the parameters u use for mountains would not be the same you use for oceans

to fix this, u can generate a second noise map with a much lower detail level (0 octaves) to use as a mask

0 being ocean, 1 being mountains, anything in-between serving as transition between them

[sharp geyser]

slow down buddy I just barely started understanding this, now we are talking about using masks

[lyric mountain]

umm, lemme draw

[sharp geyser]

😭

[lyric mountain]

for example, imagine this is your current terrain noise

[sharp geyser]

Yuh

[lyric mountain]

then u generate another at a much lower resolution (low octaves) with a different seed

anywhere where it's black u consider it to be ocean biome

where it's white u consider to be land biome

now during your coordinate iterator, you simply check what value it is in the "biome map"

if the current coordinate is 0, you use ocean parameters, if it's 1 you use land paramenters

anything in-between you interpolate between the two

[sharp geyser]

I think I get it

Let me see if I can get something working

oh wow

Isn't done generating yet but I definitely see a massive difference 💀

                local z = cz + zi - 1
                local biomeMap = fbm(x, z, 2, 0.002, 1, 2, 0.5)
                local t = (biomeMap + 0.5)
                t = t * t
                local amp = 2 + (150 - 2) * t
                local rawHeight = fbm(x, z, 6, 0.02, amp, 2, 0.2)
                local baseHeight = -10 + (60 - (-10)) * t
                local height = rawHeight + baseHeight

[lyric mountain]

ye, that's basically the idea

to make it easier to you, make a class or struct to hold the biome parameters, then add a function to return an interpolated biome

so you dont need to do the calcs everywhere

also, for the land map, add a height offset so it's always above sea level

instead of increasing magnitude

it'll get u smoother plains

[sharp geyser]

Yeah I am currently running all this in studio's command prompt 💀

I havent even started abstracting it yet, I know ima need to so I can always access values, especially when it comes to planting prefabs on the terrain

[sharp geyser]

you mean like adding + WATER_LEVEL to the biomeMap?

[lyric mountain]

no, add it to height

basically give a heightOffset property to every biome

ocean would have smth negative for deep seabed

land would have it at heightOffset = WATER_LEVEL

[sharp geyser]

so local height = (rawHeight + baseHeight) + WATER_LEVEL ?

[lyric mountain]

for land, yes

this is to guarantee you dont get water in your land biome

[sharp geyser]

Hm okay

I think I did it correctly

Yeah okay

Resulting terrain

After tweaking the t and frequency of the rawHeight I got this

[lyric mountain]

nearly there :D

the noise you're using for the water is too small, increase its size

[sharp geyser]

Terrain is ribbed which I noticed

I assume its a resolution issue

[lyric mountain]

yeah, what you're seeing is the limit of 255 tones of gray

not exactly sure how to fix that, since I had that same problem with the texture generator I made as a graduation project

you'd likely use interpolation to fill the gap between pixels

[sharp geyser]

Smoother

I fixed it by adding an addition branch to the if statement yi

if yi <= col.height then
                        local isCave = false
                        if col.t > 0.4 and yi > WATER_LEVEL + 10 then
                            local caveNoise = math.noise((cx + xi - 1) * 0.03, yi * 0.03, (cz + zi - 1) * 0.03)
                            if caveNoise > 0.45 then isCave = true end
                        end

                        if isCave then
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = Enum.Material.Air
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 0
                        else
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = col.mat
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 1
                        end
                    elseif yi - 1 < col.height then
                        occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = col.height - (yi - 1)
                        materials[xi][yi][zi] = col.mat
                    else
                        if yi <= WATER_LEVEL then
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = Enum.Material.Water
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 1
                        else
                            materials[xi][yi][zi] = Enum.Material.Air
                            occupancy[xi][yi][zi] = 0
                        end
                    end

roblox allows regions to be partially occupied

instead of a flat 0 - 1 it can be 0.5 0.4 0.3 etc

[sharp geyser]

I increased the size but the water didn't increase, only the amount of sand

[lyric mountain]

are u adding a negative height offset to the water?

[sharp geyser]

Terrain regen made a smiley face

[lyric mountain]

lmaooo

[sharp geyser]

anyways

[lyric mountain]

why's it crying

🥲

[sharp geyser]

Cause its reflecting the person writing the code

Water reflects 🥁

anyways

yes I am

local biomeMap = fbm(x, z, 2, 0.001, 1, 2, 0.5)
                local t = (biomeMap + 0.5)
                t = t * t * t
                local amp = 2 + (150 - 2) * t
                local rawHeight = fbm(x, z, 6, 0.01, amp, 2, 0.2)
                local baseHeight = -10 + (60 - (-10)) * t
                local heightOffset = WATER_LEVEL + 5
                local height = rawHeight + baseHeight + heightOffset

messing with the -10 value in baseHeight does modify it

HES BACK

[lyric mountain]

gotta find why the smiley appeared lul

[stoic bough]

Leave him in as an Easter egg somewhere

Once u do find it

[sharp geyser]

It isn't in the final result

Its the terrain being cleared then regened

[lyric mountain]

ah

[sharp geyser]

What am I missing

I dont understand

-10 -> -5

but anything lower than -10 and I might as well released noahs ark

[lyric mountain]

like, it wasnt supposed to have water in the land biome since the height would never go below 0

oh wait

your -10 is the seabed level

[sharp geyser]

yeah

I dont understand how this math works

[lyric mountain]

basically, the height offset for water should be smaller than 10 (so it doesnt cancel the seabed level)

[sharp geyser]

it is smaller

its 8

[lyric mountain]

u can make it 0 for water

for land try putting 11

[sharp geyser]

I don't do any different offsets

[lyric mountain]

u should lul

[sharp geyser]

[lyric mountain]

that's why I mentioned putting it into the biome class

[sharp geyser]

Im too stupid for this bro

[lyric mountain]

for water the offset can be 0 without problem, but for land it must always be bigger than sealevel (in this case 10)

to make sure land is always above water

[sharp geyser]

I don't even have this abstracted out btw, I am running this all in terminal

😭

[lyric mountain]

ur a madlad

[sharp geyser]

Right

so

rawHeight is my noise for the terrain, and biomeMap is my noise for water right?

so i'd offset those 2 ?

guess not

💀

[stoic bough]

Looks like a typical midwest setting

Snow AND land at the same time

[sharp geyser]

proc gen is annoying

too much math

At the risk of blowing my pc up

im generating a 3000x3000 map

💀

yeah 3000x3000 made fans go brr, I wonder if I can further improvde this terrain gen, I will think about that when I start abstracting this into a module to reuse

[lyric mountain]

You offset only rawHeight

[sharp geyser]

                local z = cz + zi - 1
                local biomeMap = fbm(x, z, 2, 0.001, 1, 2, 0.5)
                local t = (biomeMap + 0.5)
                t = t * t
                local mountainT = math.max(t - 0.5, 0) * 2
                local amp = 2 + (150 - 2) * mountainT
                local rawHeight = fbm(x, z, 6, 0.01, amp, 2, 0.2)
                local baseHeight = -5 + (60 - (-5)) * t
                local heightOffset = 0 + (WATER_LEVEL + 10) * t
                local height = rawHeight + baseHeight + heightOffset

It's not perfect but

its damn good

[lyric mountain]

The important part is to ensure land's rawHeight never goes below WATER_LEVEL

And that sea's never go above

Unless u want isles

By adding the offset you're nullifying the negative height that makes it go underwater

[sharp geyser]

isn't that what im doing here

[lyric mountain]

Basically, the blackest area in land's noise map must be above sea

[lyric mountain]

Yes, but u need to have different offsets for sea and for land

[sharp geyser]

[lyric mountain]

Oh, that's what t is for?

The interpolation factor?

[sharp geyser]

That’s what I assumed?

Yeah

So biomes blend smoothly

[lyric mountain]

Nvm then, didn't notice

[sharp geyser]

Instead of a hard cutoff

[lyric mountain]

Usually we call it fac so I ignored it subconsciously

[sharp geyser]

Ah

Yeah idk I used Claude for the initial code I won’t lie

Then I kept tweaking and trying to figure stuff out

And I’m just too stupid in maths

[lyric mountain]

Now, just so u can debug, make grass red where it's supposed to be water biome

Or just use some different texture

I believe there's water inside those mountains cuz they're inside water biome

[sharp geyser]

Not exactly sure how to get that specific

There is not water in it from what I can see

Water is only put in specific places

[sharp geyser]

Yeah thats like a little pond in between the mountains

It's meant to be there based off the noise generated

[lyric mountain]

But if that's a land biome, it shouldn't have water no?

[sharp geyser]

Not necessarily no?

the first map defines a noise on where land and water should go, that basically is like a little pond with land around it

[lyric mountain]

Well, if it's intentional then it's fine

[sharp geyser]

I mean idk if its intentional but that seems to be what the math is supposed to do

😭

Hmmm i wonder how you enter this cave

[lyric mountain]

Lul how did that even happen

[sharp geyser]

I assume it's the cave portion of the code

[lyric mountain]

Like, if the offset is right, the deepest valley in the land biome shouldn't ever go below water level

[sharp geyser]

Then ig its not right, idk man proc gen is getting confusing asf there's too much numbers involved

I can't follow it at all

[lyric mountain]

U get used to it after a while

Like, think about it like this:
The height map (first noise) generates a value between 0 (black) and 1 (white), water level is at height = 0

So for land biome, the height would be WATER_LEVEL + value

And for water biome it'd be WATER_LEVEL - depth + value

As in, only water biome would ever go below water level

[sharp geyser]

[sharp geyser]

isn't local heightOffset = 0 + (WATER_LEVEL + 10) * t this what that does

[lyric mountain]

yes, that's why I was confused as to why there's water there

[sharp geyser]

Idk

I couldn’t tell you lmaoo

[lyric mountain]

wait, why are u doing t = t * t?

the value returned by biomeMap should be enough on its own

[sharp geyser]

Because the land was too hilly /mountainous

There was no flat plains

So I’m squaring it

It gives me a smaller amplitude

So it’s not as hilly at lower t values

[lyric mountain]

that's a issue on mountainT's side, t is supposed to be the raw value from biomeMap

like, that's the "slider" between water and mountain

[wheat mesa]

Can't believe you guys have been going at this for this long lol

Most dedicated helper oat award

[lyric mountain]

waffle, come help too lul

[wheat mesa]

I'm not good at procgen :c

I haven't gotten that far in my engine yet

[lyric mountain]

but u know math >.>

[wheat mesa]

A lil bit

[lyric mountain]

we trying to figure out why there's water inside the mountains up there

[lyric mountain]

latest

[wheat mesa]

I mean is it possible that the biome noise just happens to put water there

It might be good to plot the actual biome map

[sharp geyser]

That’s what I was thinking

[lyric mountain]

due to height offset, it'd not be possible to have the noise go below water

[sharp geyser]

Yeah idk man I’m grasping at straws

Squaring t made flatter terrain more common

[wheat mesa]

What does t represent

[lyric mountain]

it's the fac value

interpolation factor

[sharp geyser]

^

[wheat mesa]

So yeah squaring it would make it smaller, anything x^2 < x for 0 < x < 1

[lyric mountain]

that fac comes from a secondary biome map, smth like this ^

[wheat mesa]

So between 0 and 1

What's the point of adding 0.5 to it?

Also what does local baseHeight = -10 + (60 - (-10)) * t represent here? Why not simplify to 60 * t

[sharp geyser]

I think it’s leftover from before the secondary map where it returned -0.5 and 0.5 so it was a flat 0-1

This code is all over the place mind you

[wheat mesa]

I don't really know what each variable represents atm so it's a bit difficult for me to read & catch up

[sharp geyser]

When I’m home I’ll try and help more 😭

I had to leave temporarily to the store

[wheat mesa]

I'm gonna leave in like 45 mins from work so I won't be able to help then probably but I'm sure @lyric mountain knows how to help lol

also this is completely unrelated but I've been researching transformers and the math behind them is so amazingly ingenius that I have no idea how a human came up with this

[sharp geyser]

Okay I can’t send my message cause of an automod filter

Welp

I’m cooked

[deft wolf]

[delicate zephyr]

Lmao aaron

[sharp geyser]

I was about to tell you what each variable meant

[delicate zephyr]

👏

[sharp geyser]

😭

[delicate zephyr]

send the paragraphs individually

[sharp geyser]

LOOK Claude made the code it can explain its own hallucinations

[delicate zephyr]

and remove the emdashes

[sharp geyser]

I’m on phone

Too much work

[delicate zephyr]

Oh oof

[sharp geyser]

biomeMap A noise value that determines what type of terrain this location is. Uses low octaves (2) and low frequency (0.001) to create large, smooth biome regions. Returns roughly -0.5 to 0.5.

t The biome value normalized to 0-1 range. Adding 0.5 shifts from [-0.5, 0.5] to [0, 1]. Then squaring (t * t) biases it so most of the map gets low values (plains/ocean) and only peaks become high values (land/mountains). This drives the land/ocean split and terrain elevation.

mountainT A modified version of t that only activates for mountains. Subtracting 0.5 means any t below 0.5 becomes negative, and math.max clamps that to 0. Multiplying by 2 rescales the 0.5-1.0 range back to 0-1. Effect: t values 0 to 0.5 produce mountainT = 0 (flat, no mountains). Only t above 0.5 starts producing mountains. This separates “land vs ocean” from “flat vs mountainous.”

amp The amplitude for the terrain noise, driven by mountainT. When mountainT = 0 (most of the map), amplitude is 2, barely any height variation, flat plains. When mountainT = 1 (rare peak biome regions), amplitude is 150, dramatic mountain peaks. This is why mountains only appear in certain areas.

rawHeight The actual terrain shape from the main fbm noise. Uses 6 octaves for detail, frequency 0.01 for medium-sized features, and persistence 0.2 for smooth results. The amplitude (amp) controls how tall this noise is allowed to be. In plains, rawHeight swings maybe -1 to 1. In mountains, it swings -75 to 75.

baseHeight The ground floor elevation, driven by t. Lerps from -5 (ocean biome) to 60 (land biome). This sets the starting elevation before noise adds variation on top. Ocean areas sit below water level. Land areas sit well above. The coastline forms at the transition.

heightOffset Extra elevation boost driven by t. Lerps from 0 (ocean) to WATER_LEVEL + 10 (land). This guarantees land areas are always above water level. Ocean areas get no boost, staying below water. Combined with baseHeight, this creates the land/ocean separation.

height The final terrain surface level at this point. Three things added together: the noise-generated shape (rawHeight), the biome-driven ground floor (baseHeight), and the water protection boost (heightOffset). This is what the Y loop compares against to decide if a voxel is solid, water, or air.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

@wheat mesa there that’s Claude’s hallucinations and barbaric reasonings for the variables existing

[lyric mountain]

gotta leave too

[sharp geyser]

NO

[lyric mountain]

luke's turn

[sharp geyser]

Fuck proc gen

I’m trashing this entire idea I hate math

[wheat mesa]

math is great

if you're doing game dev then this math is the easy part lol

[sharp geyser]

Not when you don’t understand math

I feel stupid and I hate that

[wheat mesa]

The math itself isn't crazy confusing, it's how to apply it in a way that gives the results you want that's confusing

So don't feel bad if it's tough to understand, you never get good at something without first being bad at it

[trail sand]

helpppp

[wheat mesa]

I don't even understand this stuff and I'd say I have a decently strong math background

[sharp geyser]

Yeah I guess I just don’t know how to apply it

Ima try and do more reading online

[wheat mesa]

Rome wasn't built in a day

[queen needle]

not yet™️

[neon leaf]

https://pglite.dev/

the most cursed yet incredible thing ive seen this week

[sharp geyser]

What in gods green earth is this

[wheat mesa]

It’s just the mathematical definition of the noise function

It’s saying that given inputs x and y this is how you mathematically compute the value of fbm(x, y)

[sharp geyser]

What's that weird E

[wheat mesa]

That’s Sigma, it’s summation

[sharp geyser]

also whats with n-1 and i=0 above and below it

[wheat mesa]

It means sum from i = 0 to i = n - 1

It’s like a for loop

[sharp geyser]

I see

so go until i is equal to n - 1?

[wheat mesa]

Yes, and including i = n - 1

[0, n-1]

Basically

sum = 0
for i = 0 to i = n-1:
    sum += noise(x * f[i], y * f[i]) * a[i]

[sharp geyser]

interesting

I've seen so many methods of doing fBM

that i have no idea which is correct

function fBm(x, z, octaves, persistence, lacunarity, scale)
    local total = 0
    local amplitude = 1
    local frequency = 1
    local maxValue = 0  -- Used for normalizing

    for i = 0, octaves do
        -- Use math.noise for Perlin Noise
        total = total + math.noise(x * frequency / scale, z * frequency / scale) * amplitude
        
        maxValue = maxValue + amplitude
        
        amplitude = amplitude * persistence
        frequency = frequency * lacunarity
    end
    
    return total / maxValue -- Normalize between -1 and 1
end

-- Usage for height:
local height = fBm(x, z, 4, 0.5, 2, 100) * maxHeightMultiplier

Like this is rather different then what I had, and what i've seen

they normalize it ig

[wheat mesa]

This looks pretty much exactly like what that mathematical function does with some slight modification

[sharp geyser]

yeah it divides instead of multiplying

[wheat mesa]

But yeah typically it’s useful to normalize between 0 and 1

[sharp geyser]

I dont get it

it says it normalizes

but I am still getting floats

[wheat mesa]

Normalizing means that it’s a decimal point scaled between two values

[sharp geyser]

Oh

[wheat mesa]

Usually it’s either -1 and 1 or 0 and 1

[sharp geyser]

yeah I knew that heh

I was testing you

[wheat mesa]

Very common practice in ML, I think it’s pretty normal (no pun intended) in procgen too

Just more convenient to work with

[sharp geyser]

yeah that makes sense

working with a known range is a lot easier than a unknown

[wheat mesa]

Yeah it’s nice to know the range of values you can expect

[sharp geyser]

Alright so I for the most part understand fBM

but not how to apply it

back to the virtual books

[sharp geyser]

@lyric mountain right so local biomeNoise = WATER_LEVEL - 10 + fbm(x, z, 2, 0.5, 2.0, 100) is this what you meant when you were talking about an offset? figured out thats not what you meant

[sharp geyser]

Well v1 is a bust

[stoic bough]

looks like no mans sky

[hard zenith]

Been working on a small project. An inspired discord bot game of Discord Scream 7 orb quest!

[sharp geyser]

Alright iteration 3 produces this

omg bro

I am so tired of discord

[sharp geyser]

https://pastes.dev/Bz2e6aPQCY code

iteration 4

increased the scale in rawHeight and upped the landHeight addition from 5 -> 10

This is very close to my desired outcome

[lyric mountain]

I'm back

That one render is cute

[sharp geyser]

I got a good result

I also broke down the terrain gen code into it's own module that also caches chunks

type ColumnData = {
    height: number,
    mat: Enum.Material,
    t: number,
    mountainT: number,
    steepness: number,
    rawHeight: number,
    biomeNoise: number,
}
type ChunkData = { columns: { [string]: ColumnData } }

-- chunks[x][z]
type TerrainModule = {
    chunks: { [string]: ChunkData },
    generateChunk: (self: TerrainModule, cx: number, cz: number) -> ChunkData,
    getColumnAt: (self: TerrainModule, worldX: number, worldZ: number) -> ColumnData | nil,
    getChunk: (self: TerrainModule, cx: number, cz: number) -> ChunkData,
    CHUNK_SIZE: number,
    WATER_LEVEL: number,
    RESOLUTION: number,
    MAP_HEIGHT: number,
    MAP_SIZE: number,
}

[sharp geyser]

@lyric mountain hazaahhh

chunk spawning / despawning works

Still a bit laggy

Not sure how to really fix that

The fps drops to like 1 for 20-30s on initial load

[high gale]

how often do mod checks tickets?

[stark kestrel]

whenever they have time

[high gale]

its been a day and its a very critical issue

[stark kestrel]

they have a life, they're volunteers

they have school, jobs, families, etc.

digital moderation obviously doesn't take precedence

[deft wolf]

That's why we should implement AI to handle tickets

The response would be useless but at least it would be quick

[stark kestrel]

cough discord cough

[deft wolf]

[deft wolf]

Maybe, maybe not

[lyric mountain]

are u threading?

[wheat mesa]

Yeah you need to spawn threads for this

Chunk generation and meshing is generally quite expensive

[steel oxide]

@earnest solar you may find these pages helpful
https://docs.discord.com/developers/interactions/application-commands#create-guild-application-command
https://docs.discord.com/developers/interactions/application-commands#create-global-application-command

[earnest solar]

Ok

Thx

[sharp geyser]

I do the best I can

I might be able to make it faster idk

[wheat mesa]

Making it faster is one thing but the threading isn't optional for this if you want good visual performance

It's pretty much the widely accepted solution in procgen games

[lyric mountain]

use a divide-and-conquer method for generating the chunks

like, let's say u have 1000 chunks to generate, and your minimum allowed split value is 100 chunks per task

1000 chunks -> split into 4 tasks
  250 chunks -> split into 4 tasks
    62 chunks
    62 chunks
    63 chunks
    63 chunks
  250 chunks -> split into 4 tasks
    62 chunks
    62 chunks
    63 chunks
    63 chunks
  250 chunks -> split into 4 tasks
    62 chunks
    62 chunks
    63 chunks
    63 chunks
  250 chunks -> split into 4 tasks
    62 chunks
    62 chunks
    63 chunks
    63 chunks

now you spawn N threads and pass the tasks to them

[wheat mesa]

I just have a thread pool and pass chunk generation tasks

[lyric mountain]

then after processing you merge them back into a single result

[lyric mountain]

that works too

[wheat mesa]

I have a thread pool since I dynamically procgen chunks as the camera moves

[lyric mountain]

I use the DnQ method for generating my game's image, since it's a bigass jpg

just split into smaller pieces and let threads work on them separately, then stitch back the results

[sharp geyser]

The issue is the engine limitations

I am not sure if roblox allows actual multi-threading

which

it seems it does

Parallel Luau

[fierce orbit]

Ooo interesting

This is what I am working on

Command previews for my commands

[sharp geyser]

@lyric mountain @wheat mesa didn't even touch parallel luau and I managed to make my system way faster

load times went from ~44s to ~11s

I just cut out useless calculations, If it's over a certain height then it's all air, no need to build any 3D arrays or calculations for it.

[lyric mountain]

damn a 75% reduction

[sharp geyser]

Yeah

but uh

I fucked it up again so that reduction went out the window

I wanted to push the limit further

Seems like if I want to do that I need to make more optimizations or just dive into parallel luau which is a concept I have 0 knowledge on

[lyric mountain]

time for a documentation dive :D

only lua I ever used was starbound modding and programable mouse

[sharp geyser]

I made all the optimizations I can think of

local jecs = require("@packages/jecs")

local terrain = require("@server/terrain")

local components = require("@shared/components")

local RENDER_DISTANCE = terrain.RENDER_DISTANCE
local DESPAWN_DISTANCE = RENDER_DISTANCE + 3

local generationQueue = {}
local queuedSet = {}

local loadedChunks = {}

local shouldExist = {}

local scanTimer = 0

local function terrain_system(world: jecs.World)
    scanTimer += 1

    if scanTimer >= 30 then
        scanTimer = 0
        shouldExist = {}
        for _, player in world:query(components.Player):iter() do
            local character = player.Character
            if not character then
                continue
            end
            local rootPart = character:FindFirstChild("HumanoidRootPart") :: BasePart | nil
            if not rootPart then
                continue
            end

            local cx, cz = terrain:worldToChunk(rootPart.Position.X, rootPart.Position.Z)
            for dx = -RENDER_DISTANCE, RENDER_DISTANCE do
                for dz = -RENDER_DISTANCE, RENDER_DISTANCE do
                    local chunkCX = cx + dx * terrain.CHUNK_SIZE
                    local chunkCZ = cz + dz * terrain.CHUNK_SIZE
                    local key = chunkCX .. "," .. chunkCZ

                    if not terrain:getChunk(chunkCX, chunkCZ) and not queuedSet[key] then
                        queuedSet[key] = true
                        table.insert(generationQueue, { chunkCX, chunkCZ })
                    end
                end
            end

            for dx = -DESPAWN_DISTANCE, DESPAWN_DISTANCE do
                for dz = -DESPAWN_DISTANCE, DESPAWN_DISTANCE do
                    local chunkCX = cx + dx * terrain.CHUNK_SIZE
                    local chunkCZ = cz + dz * terrain.CHUNK_SIZE
                    local key = chunkCX .. "," .. chunkCZ
                    shouldExist[key] = true
                end
            end
        end
    end

    local despawnCount = 0
    for key, coords in pairs(loadedChunks) do
        if not shouldExist[key] then
            terrain:despawnChunk(coords[1], coords[2])
            loadedChunks[key] = nil
            despawnCount += 1
            if despawnCount >= 2 then
                break
            end
        end
    end

    local frameBudget = 0.01
    local frameStart = os.clock()
    while #generationQueue > 0 and (os.clock() - frameStart) < frameBudget do
        local coords = table.remove(generationQueue, 1)
        local key = coords[1] .. "," .. coords[2]
        queuedSet[key] = nil
        terrain:generateChunk(coords[1], coords[2])
        loadedChunks[key] = coords
    end
    -- for _ = 1, math.min(budget, #generationQueue) do
    --     local coords = table.remove(generationQueue, 1)
    --     local key = coords[1] .. "," .. coords[2]
    --     queuedSet[key] = nil
    --     terrain:generateChunk(coords[1], coords[2])

    --     loadedChunks[key] = coords
    -- end
end

return {
    system = terrain_system,
}

[lyric mountain]

single thread can only do so much, eventually multi is a must

[sharp geyser]

This is probably the most expensive part besides the actual generateChunk call

[lyric mountain]

a thing u can do, is create all variables at start

then simply reassign them

[sharp geyser]

yeah but that wouldn't offer much performance benefits in the grand scheme of things

but I will do that for sure

[lyric mountain]

and iirc lua uses dynamic typing, so try to be as unambiguous as possible

if u can use static types do use them

[lyric mountain]

it did shave some time last time I was doing extreme optimization against tim

since it doesnt need to allocate space in loops

[sharp geyser]

fair

[wheat mesa]

Chunk generation is inherently expensive enough to cause visual stutters, threading is pretty much a requirement

It’s useful to have thread pools available for other work too

[sharp geyser]

the average time for the math is like ~70-80ms while the WriteVoxels call is like ~16ms avg

[lyric mountain]

oh btw

[sharp geyser]

I can do all the math in parallel luau and call WriteVoxels with the returned arrays outside of it

[lyric mountain]

whenever possible, use integers

[wheat mesa]

Keep in mind that you get 16.6ms of work per frame to maintain 60fps 😉

[lyric mountain]

int math is much faster than floating math

[sharp geyser]

There's so many rules to parellel luau

I basically have to redo everything

I know it will all be worth it

this idea is worth seeing if it will work

[lyric mountain]

u can do ittt

[sharp geyser]

ngl

ima use claude heavily idc

💀

It can decipher those docs better than I can

[sharp geyser]

@lyric mountain @wheat mesa alright I got parallel luau working

Load times are even faster

It takes about 5s

With an additional 5-10s of fps dropping not sure what causes that, maybe the chunk loader?

Initially I only render a 6 chunk radius around the player so they have something to spawn in, the chunk loader will load an additional x chunks depending on the render distance set in this case it should load an extra 6 chunks

[wheat mesa]

Make sure that your actual game loop thread isn't doing the work. The game loop should just offload tasks to the other threads, so as to prevent visible fps stutter

[sharp geyser]

Well here's the result

IT's definitely the chunk loader loading in the rest of the chunks

but I still offload the actual math to a separate thread

local jecs = require("@packages/jecs")

local terrain = require("@server/terrain")

local components = require("@shared/components")

local RENDER_DISTANCE = terrain.RENDER_DISTANCE
local DESPAWN_DISTANCE = RENDER_DISTANCE + 3

local generationQueue = {}
local queuedSet = {}

local loadedChunks = {}

local shouldExist = {}

local scanTimer = 0

local function terrain_system(world: jecs.World)
    scanTimer += 1

    if scanTimer >= 30 then
        scanTimer = 0
        shouldExist = {}
        for _, player in world:query(components.Player):iter() do
            local character = player.Character
            if not character then
                continue
            end
            local rootPart = character:FindFirstChild("HumanoidRootPart") :: BasePart | nil
            if not rootPart then
                continue
            end

            local cx, cz = terrain:worldToChunk(rootPart.Position.X, rootPart.Position.Z)
            for dx = -RENDER_DISTANCE, RENDER_DISTANCE do
                for dz = -RENDER_DISTANCE, RENDER_DISTANCE do
                    local chunkCX = cx + dx * terrain.CHUNK_SIZE
                    local chunkCZ = cz + dz * terrain.CHUNK_SIZE
                    local key = chunkCX .. "," .. chunkCZ

                    if not terrain:getChunk(chunkCX, chunkCZ) and not queuedSet[key] then
                        queuedSet[key] = true
                        table.insert(generationQueue, { chunkCX, chunkCZ })
                    end
                end
            end

            for dx = -DESPAWN_DISTANCE, DESPAWN_DISTANCE do
                for dz = -DESPAWN_DISTANCE, DESPAWN_DISTANCE do
                    local chunkCX = cx + dx * terrain.CHUNK_SIZE
                    local chunkCZ = cz + dz * terrain.CHUNK_SIZE
                    local key = chunkCX .. "," .. chunkCZ
                    shouldExist[key] = true
                end
            end
        end
    end

    local despawnCount = 0
    for key, coords in pairs(loadedChunks) do
        if not shouldExist[key] then
            terrain:despawnChunk(coords[1], coords[2])
            loadedChunks[key] = nil
            despawnCount += 1
            if despawnCount >= 2 then
                break
            end
        end
    end

    local frameBudget = 0.01
    local frameStart = os.clock()
    while #generationQueue > 0 and (os.clock() - frameStart) < frameBudget do
        local coords = table.remove(generationQueue, 1)
        local key = coords[1] .. "," .. coords[2]
        queuedSet[key] = nil
        terrain:generateChunk(coords[1], coords[2])
        loadedChunks[key] = coords
    end
end

return {
    system = terrain_system,
}

generateChunk offloads it to a separate worker

[wheat mesa]

Could be some warmup from the editor, I know quite a few Roblox games tend to lag when you first load in

Seems like after that stutter is done everything is fine, including when you load new chunks so no big deal there

[sharp geyser]

Yeah

one thing I am seeing

ecs is failing

Somehow my server ecs is not replicating what it needs to the client

[sharp geyser]

Deduced the problem

it was the terrain system

from what I can tell it's running on chunks that aren't cached yet so it's having to re-do the math for it in the main thread, which is fine if a player exists chunks that need to be despawned to spawn new ones, but not for pre-gen

I added a guard to hopefully stop the system from running if the pre-gen terrain isn't ready yet

and hazaahh it significantly reduces the initial lag

[eternal osprey]

first time setting up a NAS

i am excited

[exotic parcel]

lol

[eternal osprey]

i want to turn it into a homelab

and pack it with some nice features to help my development processes. Any suggestions?

I was thinking about my own 'github' instance

[eternal osprey]

loser

@oak cliff

[deft wolf]

Woah

[stark kestrel]

yeah sure

Gitea, Sourcehut or GitLab are nice

[neon leaf]

if you nas has less than 16gb of ram do not install gitlab 👍

[eternal osprey]

mine has 16gb 🙂

[sharp geyser]

docker

upgrade the ram /j

[eternal osprey]

gitea is nice tho

[stark kestrel]

have it deployed on a smaller one with other services without issues

[neon leaf]

c80c6c40d832   rjns-git_job                           0.07%      22.04MiB / 503.5GiB   0.00%     0B / 0B           2.36MB / 565kB    33 
4d58e0e7fdcc   rjns-git_web                           10.41%     30.92GiB / 503.5GiB   6.14%     1.2GB / 213MB     36.5MB / 4.96GB   1610 
1f6a4bf61c6a   rjns-git_db                            0.00%      315.6MiB / 503.5GiB   0.06%     188MB / 510MB     19.8MB / 403MB    79 

i guess depends on usecase

but gitea should be sufficient for most things

[eternal osprey]

what do yall use the NAS for. Like what tools would be crucial for a nice homelab

[stark kestrel]

yah

[eternal osprey]

cuz next to gitea i am kinda stuck lmao

[stark kestrel]

then you maybe don't need one ;)

[eternal osprey]

too bad i already bought one

[stark kestrel]

there are lots of things you can deploy for your own stuff

i mainly have a few tools and that's about it

but currently offline because not many use cases

maybe a few later, e.g. some 5GC network 🤣

but would need antennas

[sharp geyser]

use it to run docker containers

[neon leaf]

buzzword detected

[sharp geyser]

[eternal osprey]

i actually wantto run my own infiscal instance

[sharp geyser]

I mean thats the only usecase i'd have for it

run my dev docker containers

or like jellyfin

or something

[eternal osprey]

but that means i need to use wireguard for it to connect to my server

that's hosted at datalix lmao

[sharp geyser]

Rather have a dev postgres env then put it on my prod server

note to self restart my pi-hole frequently

apparently it went down for a while now 💀

[stark kestrel]

adguard home

[sharp geyser]

yeah but only my devices

everyone else roams with ads

[neon leaf]

i dont even use adguard to block anything

i just use it for caching and analytics

hmm

[stark kestrel]

yeah i mean some ads are on the same domain so dns blocking won't be of much use

youtube is the perfect example

[neon leaf]

yeah i just use brave on all the pcs i manage

[sharp geyser]

yeah pi-hole wont block youtube

[stark kestrel]

i read some time ago that they're maybe pseudo working on making it proxy as well

[eternal osprey]

I hate hate the internet

i wish we could go back to sticks and stones

[stark kestrel]

which would solve those issues

[neon leaf]

they could embed it directly into the video stream

and intentionally slow the max dl rate down

so you literally cannot skip

[eternal osprey]

think about it, no hackers, no trackers

none

[stark kestrel]

no tech

[neon leaf]

thats what a homelab allows you

except the no tech part

one of my friends has legally aquired 1.2PB of movies and audio 😄

no need to pay for any subscriptions

[stark kestrel]

never paid any so far ✌️

[eternal osprey]

i accidentally found that i pushed a bunch of ds_store files to github..

are they sensitive in any sense?

[spark flint]

no

they just expose path names

so just dont leak it online on a website as that can be used to find internal files

[eternal osprey]

ohh no it's just my local mac

so the DS store files are from my mac

hollup though my path names??

that's crazy

[sharp geyser]

@wheat mesa @lyric mountain

Guess who has procedural terrain AND procedural resources

😎

Right now they stay loaded in even if the chunk isn't but thats another time's problem

[queen needle]

Now make Minecraft

[wheat mesa]

looks sick!

[sharp geyser]

[sharp geyser]

Thanks

I am working on the despawning of entities rn

[queen needle]

What are you making

[sharp tiger]

How can we make it where when users vote it gives them a voter role

[sharp geyser]

webhooks

[sharp tiger]

Do u know how to set them up

[sharp geyser]

https://docs.top.gg/docs/Resources/webhooks give you info on them, and you can find your library and it should have a section on it as well for that specific library

[sharp tiger]

Thx

[sharp geyser]

It's a procedural generated world game that lets players dictate the outcome of the world.

[queen needle]

Awesome

[sharp geyser]

They can form their own territories, kingdoms, economy, etc etc

I've been sitting on this idea for a while

Kinda want to see what people do with it

Wars or peace

The world is theortically infinite as well so long as roblox doesn't shit itself

Likely going to have to offload data storage of the world to an external db cause I doubt datastores will be enough to store all that data on the world.

[queen needle]

Sounds awesome

[sharp geyser]

Yeah

[queen needle]

can't wait to see your progrss

[sharp geyser]

I will need to do heavy modifications on the proc gen to make it more stable but rn it's actually not bad

IT only stutters when new terrain is loaded and that's really only because trees are being rendered as well

otherwise it'd be smooth asf

I've also just implemented chunk despawning, which also handles despawning any entities in the chunk as well

[sharp geyser]

Me either ahaha

I don't know how far I will get with this

especially with this being a side project

Ima need to start focusing on my main project again soon but this has just been so fun

[queen needle]

What is your main project?

[sharp geyser]

marketplace app

MVP is almost done im just dragging it out cause sadly lazy

Ima need to kick my butt back into gear soon though. The company is formed and everything so now its just about launching it

[queen needle]

That's fair

I have an idea I just need to not be lazy and negate AI use

[sharp geyser]

Lmaooo

I used ai for my proc gen

I’d never know the math otherwise

[queen needle]

well mine isn't anything I don't know/someone couldn't do by just reading basic instructions

[lyric mountain]

Looking good

[sharp geyser]

Well this is no bueno

Player falls through the map, and I seriously can't figure out why it's spawning the player in so early

[eternal osprey]

i am trying to setup my firewall why the fuck does synology not allow it

lmao subnet mask was 24

that 5 was a typo

still doesn't work tho]

well this did lol

[lyric mountain]

threads are async, are u awaiting for the initialization?

like, u dont (and shouldnt) need to wait for every chunk update, but u must wait for the very first terrain gen

[neon leaf]

the mask is always 32 bits long for ipv4

the prefix is a number from 0-32, usually deliminated with a /

[neon leaf]

https://github.com/rust9x/rust

[eternal osprey]

my dsm is giving me fucking problems saying that the website is not secure due to a self-signed certificate

is there any way i can fix this or is this fine?

Planning to use it on local network only

[sharp geyser]

Yeah, and I also only spawn the player until after all the writevoxel calls are done, but I think the issue is. The calls are done but that doesn’t mean Roblox has finished processing them

[sharp geyser]

At this point im at a loss on what to do

I've added long delays, and they still fall through the terrain initially

[sharp geyser]

I finally fixed it but I don’t think it’s the most elegant solution

[eternal osprey]

Installed pihole, gitea

Lets go

This nas is so fun

[lyric mountain]

use a mutex

like, have a variable that is only set to true after everything is done

local init = false -- on global context

...
thread work
...
init = true

[frosty gale]

gitea W

[sharp geyser]

That’s what I do

But the problem was that while it was done it was asynchronous so that doesn’t mean it’s truly done

I had to yield the thread for like 3s before marking it ready

To give Roblox enough time to fully write the voxels

I wish Roblox exposed a method that would yield on its own until it’s done processing the voxel writes but alas that’d be too easy

lowkey considering swapping to fuckin unity atp it’d save me the headache but I cba

[lyric mountain]

can u do raycasts?

if yes, u can emit a raycast with minimal length in every voxel coordinate, if the collision returns true then it has spawned

[eternal osprey]

Gimme another app to install on my nas

So far i got a local notion/trello dupe, mysql,gitea

[neon leaf]

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/77215632/why-intl-numberformat-formats-1000000000-bytes-as-1bb-instead-of-1gb

🧠

[small plover]

Does anyone know why my bot’s profile picture is not appearing on its Top.gg page all of a sudden?

[swift edge]

Might be top.gg cdn be down

Wait for few hours

[small plover]

Funny enough despite having this issue for nearly a week it seemed to fix itself right when I asked about it

[warm surge]

they use discord api for that

[swift edge]

nope

https://cdn.top.gg/icons/

they are working pretty well on compliance

[warm surge]

huh damn

[frosty gale]

how strange

but first before they can fix this the tc39 community needs to have 6 months worth of discussion around it

[prisma apex]

how to remove status from bot?

[lyric mountain]

1 biggus byte

[high gale]

What's the correct API hostname and endpoint to fetch bot stats (votes, server count) using a token? I'm using Node.js https.request and keep getting a 404 HTML page from your Next.js frontend regardless of what hostname I try (top.gg, api.top.gg). The docs show GET /v1/projects/@me — what's the actual base URL for that?

[deft wolf]

You can click "Copy URL" button to copy the url

Looks like it should be https://top.gg/api/v1/projects/@me

But looks like it doesn't contain any info about server count and votes variable is just a number

[swift edge]

https://top.gg/api/bots/:bot_id/stats

GET to fetch
POST to update

[high gale]

lemme try this

[high gale]

this worked it didnt show monthly votes nd points it seems did return server count

maybe api doesnt support those fields?

[high gale]

welp nothing showed and failed

[warm surge]

this endpoint is only for server counts

[high gale]

oh

so nothing for those right?

[warm surge]

if you’re talking about https://top.gg/api/bots/:bot_id/stats yes

[high gale]

i mean like the monthly votes etc

no way to get them right

[warm surge]

i don’t think so anymore but you can map all the users who voted from your database it should match whats on topgg

[high gale]

oh

i mean that works too lol

ight tysm!

[warm surge]

your welcome

[swift edge]

You can’t update votes

[high gale]

oh

[eternal osprey]

my NAS dockers are running on http.

How would i make them run in https lol?

Like i know certificates and shit, but my NAS is purely local.

but even then i don't trust it to leave the traffic unencrypted.

[digital swan]

use tailscale

it wont be https but it'll be encrypted

[eternal osprey]

tailscale?

[delicate zephyr]

Just sign a certificate locally

And install it to your local cert store on the devices you connect to it with

[eternal osprey]

Yeah I figured

Tailscale seems fun but i absolutely don’t want to expose the nas

To the internet

[sharp geyser]

@lyric mountain So I stepped it up a bit and im using Unity now

Terrain is so much easier

[eternal osprey]

thinking about using mkcert

[rough tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-ouch-hammer-funny-cat-headache-gif-10659136198576665222

[warm surge]

@knotty night sorry mass ping im just showing where's its at

[lyric mountain]

ooo

btw, if ur using jetbrains stuff, rider has official integration with unity

[sharp geyser]

I am using rider

hehe

I will show you my most recent iteration

[sharp geyser]

Most recent iteration

My plan is having large continents with vast oceans around them that people can sail too

[lyric mountain]

Looking tundra

[sharp geyser]

Yeah still need to tweak it a tad bit

I want flatter plains and some prominent mountains sprinkled about

but its coming along rather nicely

[lyric mountain]

That to run in roblox?

[sharp geyser]

God no

Roblox would fuckin die

This is unity

I tried it in roblox and studio genuinely crashed

it couldn't handle it 💀

I say that

and then unity crashed

💀

[sharp geyser]

@lyric mountain We have water

[lyric mountain]

Oooo it moves

[sharp geyser]

Yeahh

It uses custom shaders that I admit claude made

cause I have 0 clue on shaders rn

[lament rock]

hlsl?

Tbf, the semantics of something like hlsl is easy to grasp, but the math can get really complicated

[sharp geyser]

Yeah

I’m not sure on how to do any of that so I just wanted something useable for now

[deft wolf]

Who's Manu

This name sounds familiar

[sharp geyser]

Do you have the 1974 World Cup

[hard zealot]

I want minecraft

[frosty gale]

lynch him

[deft wolf]

Remember this so you can expose him on twitter once his game becomes popular

[edgy haven]

@sharp geyser be ready

i will blackmail u for that

hehehehehehehehe

[eternal osprey]

Okay boys i am moving over from ngrok.

What yall saying, caddy and reverse proxy? Or just use cloudflare tunnels?

its about port 3000 on localhost

I need to secure the endpoints such that only specific people can access it. So using ip’s, perhaps a secret

[radiant kraken]

TIL python bought an entire domain just for a function in their standard library 🙈

[west knot]

they don't want to make a seo progress

[neon leaf]

writing docs is so tiring 🙏 is this somewhat understandable https://calagopus.com/docs/panel/extensions/concepts/events

[sharp geyser]

You try and write custom shaders knowing 0 clue on how

[frosty gale]

i cant with the stupid shit cursor generates sometimes 😭

[spark flint]

🤣

[frosty gale]

thanks cursor i knew you were looking out for me

half of that response doesnt make sense but yeah

[neon leaf]

the catch (_) is wild

considering you can just - not have it at all and do try { } catch { }

[stark kestrel]

time to add try/catch everywhere

[frosty gale]

i think its relatively new in javascript terms so lots of code still uses a placeholder _

[deft wolf]

Don't forget to tell AI to do it

[neon leaf]

2019,

which is supported since nodejs 10.3

[west knot]

risky thing

[stark kestrel]

who doesn't enjoy risky things

[west knot]

as the system grows, you can't catch the error message, and then you spend a lot of time debugging.

[stark kestrel]

https://orbstack.dev/

for those still using docker desktop on macos

also https://github.com/apple/container

[frosty gale]

needs to be supported since node 1

https://giphy.com/gifs/troll-face-trollge-UY3tY8CCGuRnHH6H69

[neon leaf]

or nodejs 6.7

[neon leaf]

no more 27.0 inches 🙏 only 27

[frosty gale]

not enough inches to fulfil your needs?

[hard zenith]

[west knot]

I'm thinking of creating a tycoon game that can be played both web-based and via Discord. What kind of game do you think I should make? The bot part should be playable via canvas screenshots, while the website part should be playable directly.

[hard zenith]

When I think of “Tycoon” things I always think about the Nintendo DS “Animal Tycoon”

[sharp geyser]

Rollercoaster tycoon

Might be some legal issues with that though 💀

[hard zenith]

Yesss

[hard zenith]

I had to do a knockoff of “ghostface”

So it’s “masked killer”

[spiral parrot]

H

[plush comet]

Why not a reverse proxy with nginx?

[eternal osprey]

I dont want to handle certs myself

Caddu automates it

[prime cliff]

Or just use cloudlares certs

[eternal osprey]

Yeah if i use cloudflare tunnels it goes automatic

ma use that instead of caddy

[radiant kraken]

huaaa i forgot how heinous boost is 🙈

ain't no way i am waiting for an entire hour just to install a third party library

[eternal osprey]

i am using domotz to scan my network

for some reaosn there's a strange ass device on my network

can't place what it is..

this is suepr cool though

an agent on the network

[frosty gale]

boost is horrendous 😵‍💫 idk why people still use it

[sharp geyser]

anyone know anything about recursive backtracking algorithm?

[wheat mesa]

That’s a very general subset of algorithms

What about it specifically?

[sharp geyser]

I am trying to generate a maze with rooms, corridors, dead-ends, elevation as well (so up and down).

There also needs to be an exit, and from what I can tell using a recursive backtracking algorithm would be the best bet

I have no idea how to apply constraints to it though

Like, making it so elevation isn't common

[sharp geyser]

not sure if this is helpful or not

[wheat mesa]

You probably want wave function collapse @sharp geyser

Procgen with "rooms" and such

[sharp geyser]

interesting

I will look into it

[sharp geyser]

this requires me to give it a sample correct?

[sharp geyser]

yeah I dont think WFC would work for me

Unless I am just misunderstanding how it would work

[stoic bough]

There's two kinds of WFC. An overlap model where you feed it a sample and then there's the tile model that you want. You define a set of tiles, adjacency rules like which tile sits next to which tile. Corridors connecting to stairs, dead ends etc. Then give everything a weight.

[sharp geyser]

Yeah I just don’t think WFC will work for me since I have many constraints

Not to mention I’m using premade rooms

That wouldn’t necessarily work with WFC no?

[untold flax]

Does anyone know any good hosts? My current one has unreliable uptime which caused my bot to be rejected unfortunately 💔

[copper cradle]

how are things around here nowadays

[deft wolf]

Hetzner, Contabo, OVH. Literally every major hosting provider is good but often expensive

[sharp geyser]

OVH is actually the cheapest rn for the performance it offers

[stark kestrel]

yippie

[lyric mountain]

u can use DFS for that

at least that's how I generate my mazes

basically, emit a "pather" from the starting point, but have it choose a random node adjacent to it, whenever it finds a deadend have it backtract and choose a different direction

after it reaches the exit, emit more pathers along the way to visit the remaining unvisited nodes

[frosty gale]

sounds simple enough

[jaunty mason]

what does one do after creating a bot with 700 commands

[lyric mountain]

realise only ~50 are used and rewrite the entire thing

[deft wolf]

Delete it and start over by creating something useful instead of a kitchen sink bot

[sharp geyser]

realise they wasted their time and move on

[jaunty mason]

no literally

it has 752 commands

[jaunty mason]

potentially

[jaunty mason]

i made it pure out of anger because dyno doesnt have the most basic things and i dont feel like adding 100 bots to my server

[deft wolf]

Yea but 700 commands is too much, considering most of it could be merged into 10-20 commands probably

Unless all of them are prefix commands

[jaunty mason]

i doubt it. the most u could merge it into is probably 300 if u really cramped it

[jaunty mason]

yes

[deft wolf]

My god

[jaunty mason]

literally has over 70 folders

😭

i tried organizing them but uh

i put each command category in its own folder

meaning

it has like 50 categories now

[lyric mountain]

sussy redaction

[jaunty mason]

huh?

whats redaction

sorry english isnt my first language

😭

[lyric mountain]

the hidden category

[jaunty mason]

oh

find out for urself 😭

[lyric mountain]

--> ||redacted||

[jaunty mason]

thanks for explaining

[frosty gale]

epstein files trailer

[sharp geyser]

except they failed

[stoic bough]

People invite dozens of bots to avoid hundreds of commands. Thats way too many good lort

[eternal osprey]

I am finally going back to discord development

Will create a nice bot very soon once i get time

“Nice bot” this guy is such a loser

Thats mean 😭

[mild fjord]

Bottom = default.. O.o

[west knot]

How much time?

[jaunty mason]

a lot

[neon leaf]

@delicate zephyr

[deft wolf]

Good automod rules 👍

[alpine relic]

helpp

its stuckes

[deft wolf]

Crazy support scam

[alpine relic]

😂😂😂

yeah

help

[alpine relic]

In Replit Its Running And All Not Error But In Hiating Its stuck In Loading

lol

he get banned

hoho

@deft wolf can u help

[deft wolf]

Idk lavalink and stuff like this so I don't think so

[alpine relic]

btw thx for William

[alpine relic]

its can running smooth on replit but not in hosting

[glacial dew]

Can someone recommend me best hosts for bots/websites?

[sly swan]

Hidencloud

[deft wolf]

Literally any VPS provider

[jaunty mason]

schizophrenia at its finest

[jaunty mason]

according to my research it wasnt a waste of time

(has more just wont post all of it to prevent flooding)

[lyric mountain]

stating "gambling games" will prevent u from ever being approved for bot discovery

[jaunty mason]

what? doesn’t owo have that and it gets used everywhere?

[lyric mountain]

also those are kinda saying the same thing

[lyric mountain]

maybe, but they likely used some loophole to get in

[jaunty mason]

true but some do have premium paywalls

[jaunty mason]

oh?

[lyric mountain]

ye, but "completely free" already cover the other 2

[jaunty mason]

well i mainly did it cuz i thought it was fun 😭😭

[jaunty mason]

ehh

some are completely free but have extra add ons that aren’t core features

[lyric mountain]

u can still have it, just need to figure a way to make them not look like gambling

[jaunty mason]

that are paid

[jaunty mason]

so rename them and make them look more like actual games rather than a casino?

[lyric mountain]

then they're free, not completely

[jaunty mason]

idk i view it a different way but thanks for pointing it out

i’ll find a better way to display them

[lyric mountain]

it's a bit pedantic but inflated feature comparisons are a thing that always drive me off services

[jaunty mason]

understandable

[lyric mountain]

as for the gambling stuff, u can call them minigames

[jaunty mason]

yeah i was thinking that

[lyric mountain]

as long as u dont advertise them as gambling it should be fine

ofc dont do actual gambling either

[jaunty mason]

no no ofc not

😭😭

i thought it was harmless calling it gambling as it doesn’t involve real money

[deft wolf]

Then it's not really a gambling because it has no real value

[lyric mountain]

ye, just the usual discord minigame

[jaunty mason]

yea i guess u could view it that way

if u have any other comments js tell me

i’d be happy to update it

[lyric mountain]

nah the rest is fine

[jaunty mason]

alr bet

ty

[hazy heron]

amazing work

[eternal osprey]

hey guys should i do feature hyperparameter tuning for 3 different models seperately?

I am trying to find the best params for n-grams, TF-IDF vectorization

but i use 3 different calssification models, so i am trying to understand whether i should just do it on 1 model and use those params for all, or do it on all models sepeately.

[jaunty mason]

thanks

@eternal osprey hyperparameters for vectorization depend on the model

so u should tune them seperately

TF-IDF and n-gram affect models in a different way

so sharing a config might not be optimal for the results ur hoping for

(i assume)

[hazy heron]

I'll brag a little too

made with skia-safe

[jaunty mason]

oh that looks good

i might need to take a little insperation

😭

hey quick question @hazy heron do u have any experience with doing some ethical hacking? i know theres some vulnerabilities in my web dashboard that could leak the token but i dont know where.

i think its in the enable slash commands tab.

[hazy heron]

I'm not really affected by that, because my dashboard is written in Rust
however I don't think it's possible to leak the bot's token that way

We have an api in the bot that we call every time there's a change in cmds

I'll look into it

[jaunty mason]

i do that too but couldnt they use the browser console to bypass that?

[hazy heron]

how so

[stoic bough]

If your token is being handled server side it never reaches the browser

Unless you pass it into a request somewhere or response

[hazy heron]

if server doesn't send token to client there's no way to get it from the client

yeah, that

[stoic bough]

Well if you're using api

It should be in an authorization header

[jaunty mason]

well my main website makes requests to the api url and gets responses through there. the main bot is ran through the backend since the database is local so the bot passes it to the api

[stoic bough]

With something like 'Bearer BOT_TOKEN'

[lyric mountain]

the only token that should ever reach clientside is session token

[hazy heron]

you're using discord api directly?

[stoic bough]

And it should be hmac sha 256

By the time it reaches the player

[hazy heron]

I mean if it's by server actions it should be safe

[jaunty mason]

no no

so

in the website

[stoic bough]

Your bot uses api routes

[jaunty mason]

someone logs in using oauth

[stoic bough]

To interact with your web dashboard

[jaunty mason]

obviously

[stoic bough]

?

Well I was gonna help you

But you're being snooty

Good luck

[jaunty mason]

is there another way to do it? its the only way i know how to do it