or what he even wants to archiv
#development
boreal iron
earnest phoenix
You're just doing requests and checking the username
sharp geyser
He wants to use display names to search people on steam, which is a grand idea if not for the fact they can change and are very hard to accurately keep up to date without wasting api calls
hushed robin
no I’m not
earnest phoenix
Yes you are that's what you described above
hushed robin
when they search their profile I’m going to check, I’m not doing requests just to check the display name
earnest phoenix
He wants to use display names to search people on steam, which is a grand idea i...
Steam's API doesn't let you do anything with display names either way
They only let you do shit with IDs
sharp geyser
I know
earnest phoenix
So storing display names is completely pointless
earnest phoenix
Yes.
sharp geyser
Storing dynamic data is a shit show for a third party
hushed robin
maybe it’s useless to you but 🤷
earnest phoenix
Argue how you want, facts are facts.
hushed robin
it’s not a fact
earnest phoenix
It is.
hushed robin
how is it a fact
hushed robin
the data isn’t useless, it’s being used
quartz kindle
your fucking lord
boreal iron
sharp geyser
your fucking lord
our fucking lord
earnest phoenix
Whole new level 
sharp geyser
earnest phoenix
quartz kindle
our fucking lord
ourcord
earnest phoenix
I'd store their entire display name history as well
Just in case they need it again
As well as the date they changed it, the number of characters changed etc.
Fetch all display names every minute and update your data
Top level caching
hushed robin
Fetch all display names every minute and update your data
that was the plan 
boreal iron
well, you can send one request every second without running into the request limit
so I guess, np at all
hushed robin
well, you can send one request every second without running into the request lim...
well i can send 100k requests in a second
boreal iron
well you can, but have to wait 23:59:59 until you can send the next one after
hushed robin
well you can, but have to wait 23:59:59 until you can send the next one after
yup ☹️
which is why i'm going to use multiple ips
😸
boreal iron
why do you need to do that many requests?
hushed robin
because
i need the player count of every game
which is
like 80k
how else do other services do that besides multiple ips?
hushed robin
historical player count of games
deft wolf
how else do other services do that besides multiple ips?
API key?
deft wolf
Well, if you use several keys, you don't need to use several IP addresses no?
hushed robin
well some endpoints dont require one
but how would you get multiple
besides creating a bunch of steam accounts
deft wolf
That's probably the only option. Still better than multiple ip addresses in my opinion
hushed robin
what about endpoints which don't require an api key tho
how would that work if the limit is per key
deft wolf
I don't know that, you'd have to check it out. Different services may handle it differently
hushed robin
well they don't specify that lol
"You are limited to one hundred thousand (100,000) calls to the Steam Web API per day."
deft wolf
Right, it depends what they mean by "you" because it could be per key or it could be per ip address
deft wolf
Good luck
hushed robin
hopefully they don't ban my ip 🙌
rustic nova
2 days later
How do i get my ip unbanned
hushed robin
restart my router
rustic nova
Just ask their support literally, they can help with that if your goal is around doing that
As long as its okay with their tos tho
hushed robin
well
wheres support
steam support?
i don't see any section in support for the api
rustic nova
Support of the game
rustic nova
Oh if its steam itself then yes you will get ip banned
hushed robin
why
how else am I suppose to get the player count of 80k apps without 80k requests 🤨
and then times that by once an hour
sharp geyser
how else am I suppose to get the player count of 80k apps without 80k requests �...
you simply dont
Why on gods earth would you want to
- You'd get api banned
- If you do it and somehow dont get api banned, it'd be abnormally slow
boreal iron
Nope you won't get api banned
Any large player stats service is using the same technique
hushed robin
Why on gods earth would you want to
so i can track the player counts
boreal iron
Not much to worry about
sharp geyser
Im sure steam would definitely ban someone making 80 thousand concurrent requests
hushed robin
then how do other services do it
sharp geyser
For one that one 80k call to the api will use up nearly all of your api call limit
Steam limits third party apps to 100k calls per day
Now im sure steam is more than willing to negotiate this for bigger apps
sharp geyser
You should be more worried about how to grow your application
hushed robin
it won't grow
sharp geyser
With as it stands now I doubt you'll even reach the 100k calls unless you're being dumb
sharp geyser
💀
hushed robin
i'm removing every game with 0 players from my db
once it finishes i'll have done 80k requests
so i'll try doing 20k more to see if it blocks me
unborn basalt
Crowdcasting app
harsh nova
Hard to say without seeing the code
Just iterating 80k items is fast. If it's taking long it might be that you are making web requests or having a loop inside the loop
harsh nova
That'd probably be it then
hushed robin
const applications = db.prepare('SELECT * FROM applications').all();
for (const application of applications) {
const applicationPlaying = await fetch(`https://api.steampowered.com/ISteamUserStats/GetNumberOfCurrentPlayers/v1?appid=${application.id}`)
.then(response => response.json())
.catch(error => console.log(error));
if (applicationPlaying.response.player_count === 0 || applicationPlaying.response.player_count === undefined) {
console.log(`(${applicationPlaying.response.player_count}) Deleting application...`);
db.prepare('DELETE FROM applications WHERE id = ?;').run(application.id);
} else console.log(`(${applicationPlaying.response.player_count}) Keeping application...`);
};```it's been almost two hours it's still going
but it's removed 40k applications with 0 playing
so it's working at least 🤷
harsh nova
I'm amazed you've not been ratelimited by steam 
hushed robin
well
there's no rate limit
but there's a daily limit of 100k
so i will have used up most of it when it's done lol
harsh nova
Well anyhow the reason it's slow is that you are awaiting every request. That means that instead of having many requests going on at once it does it one at a time
harsh nova
You don't as long as you handle the promise
I'm heading to bed but I'm sure you can figure it out
hushed robin
I still have no idea wtf ur trying to make
how so
lyric mountain
Yes, bulk
hushed robin
don't think so
hushed robin
why?
lyric mountain
Or just check for entries with count > 0
lyric mountain
why?
Because deleting is more expensive than updating
And inserting again will make it recalculate indexes
So you're doing double the work for the same result
hushed robin
but then i'll have a bunch of unnecessary data
lyric mountain
Doesn't matter as much as you think
As long as you have a proper structure
Plus you're very likely to eventually re-add those applications back in the future
So it's not like you'll never use them
unborn basalt
what are you trying to get to loop again
lyric mountain
is there anyway i can make this loop loop all at once
If it wasn't js, maybe
Tho technically still not "all at once"
"at once" doesn't exist in programming, you're always following a sequence of operations regardless of what u do
The thing is that, if it feels like you're doing it the wrong way, you're very likely doing it the wrong way
lyric mountain
Many services or sites track steam activity, I doubt any of them use 80k of the daily limit for updating status
hushed robin
how are they doing it then
lyric mountain
I don't know, do your research
lyric mountain
Check again
wheat mesa
"at once" doesn't exist in programming, you're always following a sequence of op...
technically.... 🤓
hushed robin
literally all the websites mention is that they use the steam api
lyric mountain
That's obvious
flat copper
let array = [
{
name: "1",
hp: 1
},
{
name: "2",
hp: 55
},
{
name: "3",
hp: 100
}
]
i want to get a leader board like the person with most hp left comes at top
lyric mountain
But that doesn't mean you need to make 80k requests
lyric mountain
```js
let array = [
{
name: "1",
hp: 1
},
{
name: "2",
hp: 55
},
...
Sort
flat copper
how?
wheat mesa
array.sort((a, b) => some sort of criteria to sort by here)
flat copper
oh ty
hushed robin
But that doesn't mean you need to make 80k requests
then how are they doing it
lyric mountain
Btw, remember sort expects a number, not an integer
hushed robin
there's no way to make a bulk request
lyric mountain
So a - b, not a > b
lyric mountain
then how are they doing it
I'll say it again
i don't know, do your research
If there really isn't a way, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it then
lyric mountain
Your risk
hushed robin
how a risk?
lyric mountain
For example, they banning your ip
hushed robin
other websites are doing it so it's fine 👍
lyric mountain
Doubt they're doing it that way
hushed robin
they are
lyric mountain
How are you so sure?
hushed robin
because there's no other way
i've been googling for awhile
and haven't found anything
lament rock
Btw, remember sort expects a number, not an integer
integer?
lament rock
Late where you are?
lyric mountain
Yeah kinda
lyric mountain
because there's no other way
What if there is an other way
Api spam is not a sustainable method
Never is
hushed robin
there is not
lament rock
I feel that. I just got finished setting up my sbc and it sucked because I had to flash an os to an sd card first and then flash the os to the nvme m.2 ssd I bought for it through ssh and sftp and then flash the on board flash memory to tell it to boot to the nvme.
lyric mountain
The what
hushed robin
what does "poll" mean
wheat mesa
depends on the context
hushed robin
"Thanks! I poll GetNumberOfCurrentPlayers from the Steam Web API."
wheat mesa
basically just means fetch
lament rock
take this situation
"are we there yet?"
> no
"are we there yet"
> yes, now we are
lament rock
The what
sbc is a single board computer
I got a raspberry pi-like sbc
except better
4 core arm big little chip at 2.4GHz and 16GB of ram
Got a 128GB nvme m.2
But its boot priority by default is only set to sd card slot
lyric mountain
Ah, so u used an sd as a bridge to the nvme
lyric mountain
Didn't know raspies had nvme slot
lament rock
I got the orangepi 5
so not an rpi, but it's better
This thing can fit in my hand easily and its performance smacks
lyric mountain
Nice
lament rock
but I should probably get some heat sinks for it since the cpu die is exposed to the open air
lyric mountain
Is the cpu lidless?
lament rock
mmm idk if it's lidless. It's flat and not like _/—-\_
I hate how / and \ are formatted wtf
nvm it was underscores
lyric mountain
It's probably lidless then, like, is just the bare thing
Yeah getting a sink is a good idea
lament rock
probably for low profile
although nothing is really low profile about full sized hdmi, headphone jack, 3 port usb panel and 1 gig ethernet
I kinda want to make my own printed case for it
I have little blowey-matrons anyways so I can turn it into an airplane for max airflow
lyric mountain
Easier to just make a mold and press-shape an aluminum sheet
lament rock
mm something like that
Nah it would be rised with stand offs
I see other people with printed cases
the cpu and memory package doesnt get that hot
I know I shouldn't, but I touched it with my bare hands
lyric mountain
Ehh, finger oils
lament rock
I wanted to somehow shove my pcie 16 lane graphics card onto it, but I can probably somehow bridge it with usb c
maybe
a x2 to x16 lane seems jank and I want the nvme ssd still
That way I can host stuff like waifu2x
lyric mountain
A connoisseur, I see
hushed robin
how else am I suppose to get the player count of 80k apps without 80k requests �...
ok i now only need to make 11k requests 👍
lyric mountain
I use w2x daily for my image processing
lament rock
Wanted to somehow make a cdn that scales images with waifu2x optionally or just allow my donors to abuse some of my hardware
Thankfully I have unlimited data
hushed robin
If it wasn't js, maybe
can I in Go?
lyric mountain
You can nothing in go, not with your current knowledge
But yes, go supports threads
It'd still not be "all at once"
Since you'd need to spawn threads in sequence
hushed robin
i know Go wym
the thing is even if i make individual requests it takes so long
too long
like 30 minutes to complete
wheat mesa
I still don't see how steam would even allow that many requests that quickly
I'm sure there's a ratelimit at some point other than the request cap
lyric mountain
100k per day
hushed robin
well
lyric mountain
Ah, u mean aside from the cap
lyric mountain
Because ur using js
hushed robin
if theres a minute rate limit it must be very high
hushed robin
Because ur using js
whats wrong with js
lyric mountain
Js is monothread
A request won't fire until the previous request completes
Since ur awaiting it
hushed robin
well
wheat mesa
You can spawn child processes
wheat mesa
But that's about it in terms of multithreading
and/or worker threads, never used them before though so can't help you on that end
lyric mountain
You'll end up getting your ip banned
wheat mesa
well yeah, you're doing like 100 thousand requests
lyric mountain
And having to justify to your ISP why you got banned to begin with
wheat mesa
why do you even need to do that many requests in the first place? are you looping over the entire steam gallery of games or some shit?
wheat mesa
again, why
hushed robin
so i can limit the requests i will eventually have to make
wheat mesa
just...make...them...later?
lyric mountain
What if I want to know the player count of a game that was deleted from the db?
lyric mountain
What if it happened to have 0 players the exact moment u fetched it?
Btw, your player tracker will be as useless as a broken clock
hushed robin
why
lyric mountain
Except a broken clock is right twice a day
lament rock
Promise.all
wheat mesa
Okay so if I'm understanding this correctly, a user will ask your bot how many players are on a game. Then, you fetch said player count, and give it back to them. Am I right?
lament rock
accepts an array of promises and fires them all "at once"
lyric mountain
You can't fetch it frequently enough to keep live data
hushed robin
what I want to make
lament rock
const results = await Promise.all([…promises])
hushed robin
You can't fetch it frequently enough to keep live data
it's possible
lyric mountain
Not the way ur doing
wheat mesa
not with 100k requests a day it's not lmao
lyric mountain
U said u have 11k entries
hushed robin
yeah i know
lyric mountain
So that's about at most 9 refreshes per day
hushed robin
i'm still searching
wheat mesa
I'm so confused, why would you literally not just fetch it and cache the data when the user ASKS for it
lament rock
is there a websocket api
hushed robin
for what
lament rock
for events you want
hushed robin
i don't want events
lyric mountain
I'm so confused, why would you literally not just fetch it and cache the data wh...
Battle doesn't know what a cache is
wheat mesa
What is the point of fetching all of this data now and deleting it from your database if the data eventually changes anyways
lament rock
hushed robin
i'm trying to make it so
lyric mountain
That's true, you don't need all the data at once
Just show what the user asks for
hushed robin
it fetches the player count of a game at an interval, that way someone could look back to a specific time / date and see what the player count was
lyric mountain
That's actually very possibly what the sites do to show live count
Not what u said, but what waffle suggested
wheat mesa
it fetches the player count of a game at an interval, that way someone could loo...
that sounds not achievable on a small scale
hushed robin
why not
wheat mesa
unless there's a bulk endpoint, which I don't see the point of that existing for this specific use case
wheat mesa
if you can't even fetch the data for it within 4 hours then how on earth are you going to keep up with doing that multiple times a day
lyric mountain
That you kept in database
hushed robin
true
lament rock
alternatively, scrape html :)
wheat mesa
making thousands of requests all at once is not going to be reasonable in any language much less js
there's only so much processing you can do when your limit is basically how long an API takes to respond to you
lyric mountain
They show only what's requested
At the end of the day, people are going to use the official/popular site anyway
hushed robin
?
wheat mesa
like @lyric mountain said, research more about your specific issue, I highly doubt these websites are going through tens of thousands of games to get live player count and storing it all the time
hushed robin
like <@350836145921327115> said, research more about your specific issue, I high...
they are tho
wheat mesa
except they probably aren't because that's an unreasonable solution
hushed robin
if you go onto any game there's a player count at a 1 hour / 2 hour interval
lyric mountain
They show only what's requested
^
hushed robin
what is that suppose to mean?
wheat mesa
and if they are then they likely have the infrastructure to support it seeing as they're big websites
lyric mountain
It means they only refresh what's currently being viewed
Like, the chances of someone searching for Dota 2 player count is much more higher than someone searching for I Am Bread
There's no need to track IAB unless someone searches for it
lament rock
How do you know they're tracking it all the time unless they have graphs?
hushed robin
they do
lament rock
Ok
lyric mountain
They probably made it seamless enough
lament rock
Do the graphs go by a specific interval?
lyric mountain
But they 101% sure aren't tracking all at once
lyric mountain
Mind to show that site?
hushed robin
sometimes every other hour
lament rock
what about for a game no one plays
lyric mountain
Because a graph with 80k applications would be far from readable
hushed robin
Mind to show that site?
lyric mountain
This is what u mean?
hushed robin
yes that's the website
lyric mountain
Read what u said, carefully
hushed robin
read what
lyric mountain
no, go onto a specific game
^
lyric mountain
They show only what's requested
Now read this
hushed robin
what do you mean by that though?
lament rock
does desert bus vr have a frequently updated graph
lyric mountain
what do you mean by that though?
A game not listed in those charts isn't tracked unless someone searches for it
Meaning they aren't tracking all games
hushed robin
yes but that website is very popular, i can guarantee it's tracking thousands and thoussands
lyric mountain
It isn't
hushed robin
it is
lyric mountain
Isn't
hushed robin
it is tho
lyric mountain
When will you stop being a moron?
hushed robin
i am not a moron
lyric mountain
You literally just admitted you need to search for a game to see the data
hushed robin
yeah
lyric mountain
Meaning they aren't actively tracking every game
hushed robin
but how do they have the data?
lyric mountain
They don't
They get it when someone searches
It's literally loaded when u open that specific page
hushed robin
how are they getting data from years ago?
lyric mountain
Steam has an endpoint for that
hushed robin
no it doesn't
lyric mountain
They keep track of a game's popularity over time
So they probably have that available
If they don't, then scrapping is the answer
hushed robin
scrapping what?
lyric mountain
Too complicated for you
hushed robin
no it's not
wheat mesa
Yes it is
hushed robin
no
wheat mesa
Feel free to look up what web scraping is but I highly doubt you’re going to want to go that route for very long
hushed robin
i know what web scraping is
lament rock
someone said I was dumb for scraping spotify track info, but the alternative is an oauth2 based api and that shit's beans (a bad thing)
hushed robin
does anyone know a good module for graphs
lament rock
graphana
lament rock
hushed robin
i've seen chart.js but the graphs look like something outta excel. i want them to actually look good ☹️
lyric mountain
So you want a simple one but not a simple one
hushed robin
well
lyric mountain
Also every chart will be ugly if you make them ugly
lyric mountain
Any lib will allow you to make beautiful charts
lyric mountain
Because you wrote ugly shit
lyric mountain
You can't expect to simply add something and be done with it
If you want beautiful stuff you need to put effort into making it beautiful
hushed robin
I tried
lyric mountain
You didn't
hushed robin
I couldn’t find anything to make them look good
lyric mountain
I just inputted the data and that’s what it spit out
^
hushed robin
yeah cus I couldn’t find anything
lyric mountain
Because you searched for done solutions
People won't give you the best design code for nothing
hushed robin
like I wanted to width of the line to be thicker and for a dot to be on every data point but I couldn’t find anything ☹️
lyric mountain
It can be done
hushed robin
with chart js?
lyric mountain
Yes?
hushed robin
have u done it?
lyric mountain
It can be done with any chart lib
Yes
Chartjs is entirely customizable
You won't find ready solutions online because some people are literally paid to design beautiful graphs
lyric mountain
Read the docs and think for yourself
wheat mesa
You learn how to make one…
wheat mesa
You spent like 10 mins on it I guarantee
lyric mountain
See, that's why everything u touch ends up ugly
hushed robin
You spent like 10 mins on it I guarantee
more like 15-20
lyric mountain
You want effortless programming, you want to make an awesome site with minimal logical thinking
hushed robin
cus I couldn’t figure out how to make it look good
hushed robin
You want effortless programming, you want to make an awesome site with minimal l...
I think and google a lot but it does nothing
wheat mesa
Then pay someone
wheat mesa
Ok then learn
lyric mountain
I think and google a lot but it does nothing
Staring at the screen won't solve anything
Nor reading it
wheat mesa
Then try
lyric mountain
You need to think
wheat mesa
20 mins is nothing
wheat mesa
“Bruh”
hushed robin
Nor reading it
how do you want me to do it then 😦
lyric mountain
Why ur quotes fancier
wheat mesa
iPhone defaults to different quotes
lyric mountain
how do you want me to do it then 😦
You dont learn by reading
That's for linguistics
In programming you need to think what you need to do to achieve a certain goal
You're expecting to read the docs and find the answer for life
You won't find it
hushed robin
Try 20 days instead
I’m not sending 20 days learning how to make a graph
that’s too long
wheat mesa
Then live with your ugly graphs
lyric mountain
Then you won't learn it
wheat mesa
You can’t expect a solution to be hand delivered to you for everything
That’s not what programming is
lyric mountain
Don't want to put effort? Fine, but you'll need to live with your ugly/standard graphs
wheat mesa
There’s a reason people get paid to do this
hushed robin
Then live with your ugly graphs
no, they’re ugly
wheat mesa
Then suck it up and either spend the time to learn or don’t use them
wheat mesa
^^
hushed robin
how much will it cost
wheat mesa
Idk, but probably more than you’re willing to spend
lyric mountain
hushed robin
graphic designer? how are they suppose to program me a graph
wheat mesa
Falls within a similar category
lyric mountain
Graphical designer includes anything graphics-related
Also called "frontend designers"
wheat mesa
Figma users 🧌
hushed robin
how long does it take to make one graph
lyric mountain
Depends on your demands
wheat mesa
Go ask someone who does that stuff for freelance and get them to quote you
I imagine it’s more than you’re willing to spend on a hobby project though
hushed robin
this is not a hobby project
wheat mesa
Is it for a bot?
lyric mountain
Weren't u doing it for fun?
hushed robin
I’m asking for a different thing, I gave up on the steam one
lyric mountain
You either do something as a hobby, as a job or as a study
hushed robin
this is my job
lyric mountain
You're paid for it?
hushed robin
no
wheat mesa
Then it’s not a job
lyric mountain
Then it ain't a job
hushed robin
it is i will get paid soon when it starts making money 🔥
lyric mountain
Heard that a lot
wheat mesa
Yeah doubt it’s gonna make money like you expect it will
lyric mountain
Usually from "big game idea" people
wheat mesa
Is this by chance for a discord bot or is it a website or what is it for
hushed robin
telegram bot
wheat mesa
Yeah you’re not going to make any money
(At least anytime soon)
Never go into developing bots on any service with the expectation of making money
hushed robin
well I classify it as my job 👍
wheat mesa
Only the top 0.1% of bots make any money at all usually
hushed robin
I will be in that top 0.1%
wheat mesa
So the idea that you’ll be able to hire a graphic designer for this and recoup your expenses is very unrealistic
But it’s your money
Feel free to spend it
lyric mountain
I'd kick at least 4 days
hushed robin
it is very realistic this bot has a very high demand in the telegram community
lyric mountain
But I'm no graph designer, so idk
wheat mesa
Doesn’t mean you’ll make money
lyric mountain
4 days feel like a reasonable estimate for just chart designing
hushed robin
I'd kick at least 4 days
how do you kick days
wheat mesa
How are you to say what’s normal and what’s not for that
lyric mountain
4 days is actually an optimal best case estimation
wheat mesa
Considering you can’t even spend 20 minutes on it before giving up
hushed robin
because a chart is a basic thing it’s not hard to make
wheat mesa
Then make it yourself if it’s so easy
lyric mountain
A realistic estimation would be 1 week minimum
wheat mesa
See how hypocritical this is
wheat mesa
So then you have no baseline of how long it takes to make a “pretty” one
hushed robin
well
lyric mountain
but it looked ugly
Which returns us to the initial point
hushed robin
It doesn’t take 4 days to thicken lines and put a dot at data points
lyric mountain
Those people that charge $25 per hour did study and spend months learning how to design beautiful graphs
wheat mesa
This is very hypocritical of you, you say that making a graph yourself is too hard and that you don’t want to learn it, and then you expect someone else to do it easily and quickly for you?
lyric mountain
Saying "it's abnormal because it's easy" is plain insulting their work
wheat mesa
Yeah ^^^
lyric mountain
You don't pay for what they write, you pay for what they know
wheat mesa
It’s annoying when people do that to programming as well. Some people think that we just drag and drop blocks all day and that the time needed to complete a project is based on how fast you can type
hushed robin
I do pay for what they write, if they don’t write anything there’s nothing to pay for
wheat mesa
Oversimplifying a profession is insulting to the people that do it
wheat mesa
I do pay for what they write, if they don’t write anything there’s nothing to pa...
That’s not how it works
lyric mountain
It’s annoying when people do that to programming as well. Some people think that...
Which is why programmers are so expensive, even tho we do mostly googling and typing
hushed robin
Completely forgot how naive you were for a sec
I’m not naive
sudden geyser
Some people think that we just drag and drop blocks all day
that's all we do though
wheat mesa
I’m not naive
I suppose naive was the wrong word, I think “overconfident” fits better
lyric mountain
Dunning kruger apprentice
hushed robin
anyways I think I’m going to just not make a graph, sounds like too much effort for a little effect. I can just display the data with text
hushed robin
I suppose naive was the wrong word, I think “overconfident” fits better
I think neither
wheat mesa
You think that your local McDonald’s employee getting paid $12/hour is serving customers throughout every single hour they’re paid? No, but that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve the money for that hour
Same thing applies to a freelancer
sudden geyser
And honing our skills
lmao no you're not
programmers are some of the most exchangeable people for a job there is
hushed robin
Don’t really get that analogy but ok
wheat mesa
The analogy is that your freelancer spends time on your request not just writing code
lyric mountain
programmers are some of the most exchangeable people for a job there is
Yeah, but we're still paid big to so something people don't want to do
Which is spending weeks learning how to write something more efficiently and staying up to date
hushed robin
The analogy is that your freelancer spends time on your request not just writing...
yeah but at the end of the day I’m still paying for the code
if there’s no code there’s nothing to pay for
lyric mountain
There is, the knowledge
wheat mesa
You’re paying for the code and the knowledge and the time spend designing your request
That’s the whole point
Here’s a more reasonable analogy
When you bring your car to the mechanic and they repair something on it, they charge you for the parts AND the labor
hushed robin
but I’m not paying for your knowledge
wheat mesa
Not just the raw materials it took to repair your car
hushed robin
are you giving me your knowledge? no your giving me code
wheat mesa
And yet you do not have the knowledge needed to design it
You’re paying for their experience
earnest phoenix
_ _
lyric mountain
They know how to do it, that's why u pay
hushed robin
And yet you do not have the knowledge needed to design it
and they do which is great
lyric mountain
Code can be found on docs or google, but they know how to put it all together
wheat mesa
and they do which is great
That’s. The. Fucking. Point.
hushed robin
I wouldn’t pay for experience, I would pay for the finisher product.
I don’t care how experienced you are.
lyric mountain
It's impressive how hard it is to understand the basic concept of paid labor
wheat mesa
Sometimes i think that he must be a spoiled little rich kid because there is no other way he doesn’t understand this
lyric mountain
A lazy rich you mean
hushed robin
yeah I would be lazy
lyric mountain
Because no way ur becoming rich with 20 mins of reading a doc
hushed robin
If im rich im definitely not working
lyric mountain
Not even "20 mins per day"
earnest phoenix
But not getting the whole code would imply the need to use the brain and implement in code their design. Sucks man I want to CtrlC CtrlV and not read the docs for 30 minutes
lyric mountain
Just "20 mins"
wheat mesa
You’re paying for it because it’s a specialty. It’s a skill. It took them time to learn how to do it, and they possess knowledge you do not. So, in return for their work, you give them money
wheat mesa
And their work requires their knowledge
So you pay a premium for it being a special skill that only some people possess
It’s not like you’re giving them a Lego instruction manual on how to build what you want
Otherwise you’d be able to do it yourself
lyric mountain
Then do it
hushed robin
no
lyric mountain
See?
hushed robin
too much effort involved
wheat mesa
Then do it yourself and stop complaining about how labor works
wheat mesa
too much effort involved
then you pay someone to put in the effort you don’t want to put in
wheat mesa
Fr same
hushed robin
Can't wait to see this guy on a job interview
why
hushed robin
wonder how I’m not fired yet ☹️
lyric mountain
And you work with...?
lyric mountain
Yes, that's the question
wheat mesa
If you somehow have a job I’d be surprised considering your work ethic seems to be of questionable standards
hushed robin
I work with cars
lyric mountain
And how tf does that relate to programming
earnest phoenix
What country? Just to be sure I don't put my car there
hushed robin
I didnt say it relates to programming you asked ⁉️
earnest phoenix
Don't want my car to be half repaired or whatsoever
lyric mountain
Hm, fair, we didn't specify "programming job interview"
hushed robin
I don’t repair cars luckily
lyric mountain
You break them?
wheat mesa
“Hey so we took your wheel off but I don’t want to put a new wheel back on. Sorry man”
earnest phoenix
After taking 10 minutes in attempting to repair the car, time to give up. Unclear instructions
hushed robin
☠️
earnest phoenix
“Hey so we took your wheel off but I don’t want to put a new wheel back on. Sorr...
Too much effort involved
hushed robin
nah as I said I don’t repair them
earnest phoenix
I'll give you the parts, do it yourself
wheat mesa
Bro counts washing his parents cars as working with cars
hushed robin
🤣
wheat mesa
But still the point stands. If you don’t want to put in the effort to do something, that is why you hire someone to do something.
That is quite literally how specialization within society works
lyric mountain
Serious advice, you better try to find a niche to specialize at before you move out
hushed robin
true I’ll hire them
wheat mesa
People get good at things and exchange their specialties so everybody benefits
hushed robin
Serious advice, you better try to find a niche to specialize at before you move ...
why
hushed robin
If life doesn’t work out the army is always looking for new people 🤷
wheat mesa
Army requires a lot more effort than almost jobs
earnest phoenix
LMAO
wheat mesa
Just so you know
hushed robin
so
lyric mountain
Army is 99% effort
earnest phoenix
I'd love to see you in the army
wheat mesa
You will not last there for a week with your idea of effort
earnest phoenix
That'd be amazing
hushed robin
it’s physical effort sure
lyric mountain
The 1% is the 4 hours of sleep u get
earnest phoenix
Man's going to be clapped every single minute by higher ups
hushed robin
nice?
wheat mesa
“Sorry I didn’t show up to training today because I didn’t feel like putting in the effort”
earnest phoenix
With your mindset, you won't be there for more than 3 days
lyric mountain
Guess I'll be going now, will read the aftermatch of this convo tomorrow
hushed robin
I would
wheat mesa
If there’s one thing the army doesn’t tolerate one bit, it’s laziness
lyric mountain
Cya
earnest phoenix
bai
wheat mesa
Bye
wheat mesa
The best part of this is that I know he’s not trolling
hushed robin
popcorn
earnest phoenix
anyways also heading off, losing my braincells over time - plus it's going off topic
wheat mesa
He literally thinks this way
hushed robin
good night 👌
hushed robin
One day you’ll find out what the real world is like
I do luckily
I’ve been living in the real world for awhile
earnest phoenix
Battleless more like effortless 
earnest phoenix
Maybe
earnest phoenix
my condolences
sharp geyser
thank you I needed it
hushed robin
Oh god you play rust?
who doesn’t
unborn basalt
who chose?
timid eagle
long sail
quick question how can i change my bot's pfp on top.gg
i already changed it on the discord dev website
lyric mountain
press "Refresh" then go into edit page and just click "Save"
hushed robin
how come with lru-cache when I try to access it from another file it always returns undefined ⁉️
wheat mesa
You really need to learn how to ask better questions
You always give us no context whatsoever for an obscure problem, we need to see some code or SOMETHING at the very least
hushed robin
You always give us no context whatsoever for an obscure problem, we need to see ...
i do cache.set(id, ...) in one file.
i do cache.get(id) in another file and returns undefined
wheat mesa
Ok and where do you export cache
wheat mesa
How are you accessing that variable from another file
hushed robin
i do `cache.set(id, ...)` in one file.
i do `cache.get(id)` in another file and ...
by doing this ☝️
hushed robin
what variable are you referring to
wheat mesa
I mean where are you getting cache from
hushed robin
oh
wheat mesa
In BOTH files
hushed robin
i just define it in both files
hushed robin
const LRUCache = require('lru-cache');
const options = {
max: 500,
ttl: 12 * 60 * 60 * 1000
};
const cache = new LRUCache(options);
Do you do that for both files?
hushed robin
yes
wheat mesa
Well then that’s why
sharp geyser
If you are doing that in both files the cache likely won’t persist
hushed robin
🤨
wheat mesa
You’re creating a new cache for each file
hushed robin
bru
sharp geyser
It’s two different caches
sharp geyser
By exporting it and using that one cache only
wheat mesa
You need to export your cache from some file or attach it somewhere where you can access it, or you can pass it as a parameter to functions that use it
hushed robin
guys how much does 6k characters hold in cache
quartz kindle
what
quartz kindle
depends a lot, but in general each character takes 2 bytes
then each individual string takes extra bytes of overhead
quartz kindle
v8 is smart enough to detect what kind of characters the string has tho
so if it finds that the string only contains 1 byte characters, it is able to create a special type of string that only uses 1 byte per character
boreal iron
Very smort
quartz kindle
for example, here's 6k fs
sharp geyser
or just split the sentences by their chars and save each char individually then regroup those chars together again
quartz kindle
sharp geyser
quartz kindle
6k fs takes 6012 bytes
sharp geyser
tim is going to need all the fs he can get
earnest phoenix
quartz kindle
F
hushed robin
almost 6mb 😕
quartz kindle
now if you take that 6k fs
and add one character that is larger than 1 byte
here's the result
sharp geyser
and add 6k Ls then you have tims daily life
quartz kindle
the entire string is converted to a 2byte string
so it takes 12012 bytes now, instead of 6012
quartz kindle
almost 6mb 😕
what are you calculating here?
quartz kindle
so you have 500 strings of 6k characters?
hushed robin
yes
quartz kindle
3006000 bytes if its a 1byte string
6012000 bytes if its a 2byte string
or 5.871 MB
hushed robin
I was about to say
sharp geyser
tim I challenge you to make a 1gb string
quartz kindle
its weird for me too, because im a native portuguese speaker, and portuguese uses commas as decimal delimiter for some reason
hushed robin
oh
quartz kindle
tim I challenge you to make a 1gb string
"a".repeat(1024*1024*1024)
sharp geyser
`"a".repeat(1024*1024*1024)`
one sec let me see if brave crashes
boreal iron
Imagine using brave
hushed robin
☹️
quartz kindle
also 2000s ronaldo
quartz kindle
i use an extension to get fun images on startup
sharp geyser
Looks like a child television show
Ok but you are as old as dirt so I would not expect you to understand
hushed robin
Brave tracks you tho
boreal iron
sharp geyser
Brave tracks you tho
Nah
boreal iron
The older I get the more I understand... at least how weird younger people are
Take this
hushed robin
who’s weird
neon leaf
what do you guys think about my new "coding" language? (it just transpiles to js, its a fun project)
this is the code it generated: https://pastes.dev/hqvQaEMJFs
wheat mesa
Depends on how big the images are, if they’re super small and you’re not using a lot of them then they’re fine. If you intend on caching a TON of them though, that’s where you’ll run into problems
lyric mountain
what do you guys think about my new "coding" language? (it just transpiles to js...
looks like bash
but worse
neon leaf
yup
lyric mountain
given the name of the lang is "bad lang', congratulations
craggy pine
^
neon leaf
^
quartz kindle
discord.bad when
boreal iron
Yeah I think discord gave up discord a long time ago, too
That's the reason they only add emojis and stickers and bullshit like that instead of useful and wanted features
Must be like "we can't make it a serious chat app anyways so let's add any bloat we can find"
kids will like it
boreal iron
tf is a super reaction?
hushed robin
Lmao
boreal iron
Does it blow up all other reactions?
neon leaf
but I actually wanna make a decent language thats enough to control user defined api routes, I just have no clue how I want it to look yet
boreal iron
hushed robin
basically a reaction with a special animation that only nitro subs can use
boreal iron
God bless the possibility to turn reactions off completely
lyric mountain
oh I love writing docs /s
neon leaf
I think boolean would make more sense there
lyric mountain
there where?
neon leaf
at the @return
lyric mountain
at the `@return`
that's how u declare the return description in javadocs
neon leaf
ah
lyric mountain
u don't declare the type, that's automatically included
it becomes this
but it's impossible not to be redundant when the fuckin function name is self-explaining
earnest phoenix
Unclear what the function does.
public boolean whetherTheEventIsConfiguredToUseButtonsOrNot() { }
seems like a clear improvement
lyric mountain
lmao
sharp geyser
what do you guys think about my new "coding" language? (it just transpiles to js...
Looks like lua syntax
lyric mountain
great, now I can at last publish a release
sudden geyser
what do you guys think about my new "coding" language? (it just transpiles to js...
very verbose, but looks interesting
compact pier
neon leaf
how can I also make it match call? it should be a unique match, not connected to (test)
I think I actually got it
lyric mountain
careful when using | in regex, it might not match what you expect it to
boreal iron
alwayls need to be aware, things can explode randomly
neon leaf
why is regex sometimes so convenient? 🤩
eternal osprey
hey implication is right associative right?
So a -> b -> c would be written as:
(A -> B) -> C right
right associativity means that we start at the left?
neon leaf
in the second one?
lyric mountain
in the one u sent on dms
neon leaf
Imma just use this, it kinda matches but I want an argument to be everything until the comma
or if there is none just to the end
lyric mountain
what are u using the regex for?
neon leaf
for making my bad lang less bad
lyric mountain
you should be using a lexer instead
parsing a language with regex will be extremely hard because u dont have context information
neon leaf
I already made that manually, I always know where im in, aka if statement, while loop, etc
I just need to match functions
lyric mountain
yes, that's part of the issue
because for example fn (",", 123) cant be parsed correctly
if you split by comma you'll end with 3 args
but there are only 2
neon leaf
hmm
I think I got it but I also want to make the "good ok" one match even though it isnt in "
lean ridge
hidden gorge
So i’m trying to organize my slash commands but when i edit the handler to load the commands it can’t find the individual folders and i’m doing ./commands/../ and it says reloaded 0 slash commands.
deft wolf
Where's code 
hidden gorge
one sec
i’m uploading it
const { REST, Routes } = require('discord.js');
const { clientId, guildId, token } = require('./config.json');
const fs = require('node:fs');
const path = require('node:path');
const commands = [];
const commandsPath = path.join(__dirname, 'commands');
const commandFiles = fs.readdirSync(commandsPath).filter(file => file.endsWith('.js'));
for (const file of commandFiles) {
const command = require(`./commands/../${file}`);
commands.push(command.data.toJSON());
}
const rest = new REST({ version: '10' }).setToken(token);
(async () => {
try {
console.log(`Started refreshing ${commands.length} application (/) commands.`);
const data = await rest.put(
Routes.applicationGuildCommands(clientId, guildId),
{ body: commands },
);
console.log(`Successfully reloaded ${data.length} application (/) commands.`);
} catch (error) {
console.error(error);
}
})();```and my commands are commands/testcmd/test.js
and it won’t load it
@deft wolf
spark flint
`./commands/../${file}```
` ?where is the loader located?
hidden gorge
my deploy.js
spark flint
whats the ../ for
hidden gorge
it’s the folder
spark flint
wouldn't it be ```js
./commands/${file}
bc the test.js is in the commands folder in a folder
quartz kindle
why not just ```js
require(${commandsPath}/${file});
or that yeah
hidden gorge
nope
quartz kindle
if the command is inside another folder inside commands, then you need to edit your code
hidden gorge
still says 0
quartz kindle
your code is only handling files directly inside the commands folder
spark flint
what
rustic nova
Funny number sequence
lament rock
use absolute paths always
lyric mountain
only a sith deals in absolutes
lament rock
join the dark side of nodejs
rustic nova
Join the heavy side of node_modules
hushed robin
TypeError: Cannot set properties of undefined (setting 'defaultFontFamily')
what does this mean