EPISODE 1

[untold socket]

It's literally not, because anyone that knew Anthony's story knew it was impossible but no one cared to actually pay attention to the narrative.

[bitter apex]

Why couldn't it be revealed in a later episode??

[upbeat pumice]

But it was though
Another thing was the fact that people just decided that having the body double being one of the people that hated him most was reasonable

[solid moss]

We got like 500 different questions right now and right now
Im trying to figure out who hank working for

[bitter apex]

I didn't think it was Tony

[solid moss]

That basically normal in the fallout community

[untold socket]

Because it doesn't change anything. People put so much stock into Anthony without really knowing anything about Anthony. lol

[solid moss]

There so many things you realise that you dont know but they begin to make sense

The best exmaple is the resource war conflict between US and china
And how CONFUSING it was

[upbeat pumice]

Bold of you to assume such a lengthy attention span from Fallout fans

[bitter apex]

Thats not an excuse

[upbeat pumice]

I know
It is a joke

-# You just proved it

[bitter apex]

Me not getting a joke is proof of fallout fans not having an attention span :D

[solid moss]

Wait that was a joke?

[bitter apex]

Apparently

[solid moss]

Man i forgot how to tell jokes anymore
Discussing fallout had me not notice jokes anymore

[untold socket]

Realistically anyway, putting the person that hated Robert the most - and vice versa, as someone to work with him hand in hand.
When Anthony not only is paranoid to the point where he makes a fool of himself in public. But, he's schizophrenic and completely unwell.

Putting a man like that in a position where he's working with his brother who he thinks has his entire company out to kill him, makes no literal narrative sense whatsoever.

[bitter apex]

Fallout fans also just don't have an attention span thats a well known fact

[solid moss]

Yes
The best case example is everyone saying the BoS in fallout 4 is evil

[upbeat pumice]

Lol yeah no that dosen't seem right now that you say it
But still
I feel they had to clarify it because people think having Anthony (literal #1 Robert hater) as his body double was a good theory

[solid moss]

It is a good theory but it legit doesnt make sense the SECOND you read anthony lore

[upbeat pumice]

That's the thing

[solid moss]

Either the writer forgot about it
Which to be fair, i dont blame them for it cause i didnt even know house had a brother

[bitter apex]

I guess I was supposed to draw him being a body double from him not looking alot like house from the games but I just assumed it wasn't the best casting

[solid moss]

but its just good writing cause that shows they did their damn homework

[untold socket]

Or the fact House is narcissitic enough to believe he doesn't have to be there in person. lol That he can get away with having a body double.

[bitter apex]

I believed his body double

[untold socket]

As I imagine vault tec did too. 🙂

[upbeat pumice]

If they did it still worked to their advantage
Were they to actually confirm it as Anthony there would be rage
And as much as I hate giving purist hardcore NV fans the reason to rage, I would have to give them the reason to rage because making him Anthony would have been dumb

[solid moss]

Fair enough

[untold socket]

If Anthony didn't hate Robert, I'd be okay with it - genuinely. It's just that Anthony's entire existence hinged on hating his half-brother lol

[nimble bramble]

I wonder if they'll find another actor for Sinclair (the one that died in the casino)
Maybe the one we saw in season 1 was Fred Sr.

[untold socket]

That's what I'm thinking, honestly. Plus Sinclair was obsessed with the Casino and making it happen. So I imagine he'd be all in on it - and the Sinclair we see is his Father.

[nimble bramble]

Imagine Vera actually falling in love for the most generic looking old rich douchebag of all time
It's almost like they've never played Dead Money (maybe they did and rage quit the game)

[untold socket]

Yeah but Vera's love was also. . . Complicated due to her addiction, but I do agree it would be a shame if that WAS the Sinclair. Given this is later in the pre-war timeperiod. I'm gonna personally assume it's his Father .

[nimble bramble]

Oh, could you elaborate a bit?

[untold socket]

Vera was battling HEAVY addiction when she met Sinclair. Because Dean coerced her to go back onto drugs. So while she had feelings for Sinclair, Dean was over her shoulder, dangling drugs, getting Vera to spy on Sinclair and feed information back to Dean so that Dean could rob him.

Dean only got Vera complicit because of the drugs and he was blackmailing her. Idk if it specified what else he blackmailed with - I think he had a video of her or something. I genuinely don't remember what the implication were - but Dean was manipulating and using Vera for his own means against Sinclair. But Sinclair knew. Which is also why I say Vera's love for Sinclair was complicated.

[nimble bramble]

Med-X addiction and the fact that she was Dean's former lover...
Maybe girl really did have a thing for rich old farts

[untold socket]

Unfortunate med-x cope with the stress backfired on her. It sucks too, because I think she did love Sinclair, and you can hear it in her voice in the end. What the hologram recorded of her. Little did she know Sinclair literally tumbled 30 feet to the bottom of the Vault and probably died on impact.

Or he broke his spine, and was suffocated by the cloud.

[copper elbow]

Didn't she have some chronic pain or something

[untold socket]

Don't recall. I just remember her getting addicted - stress from Singing is mentioned, but there probably was more to it than that.

[nimble bramble]

The chem abuse had to do with her terminal illness so she's pretty much gonna be dead anyway

Perhaps she would've been more willing to cooperate with Dean if she didn't know about the fact she's most likely gonna die young

I can sorta see why she'd have feelings for Grandpa Sinclair in that scenario (he's the only person that cared about her)

[untold socket]

Chronic pain sounds right though, i have to double check.

[untold socket]

Yeah, Sinclair's log suggests genuine love for her, and the way she spoke about him kinda hints at her feeling the same way.
I hate Dean for that though. Manipulating her like that.

[nimble bramble]

I never let Dean felt like "he's in charge" and ended his clownshow when he decided to turn on me just cos I didn't entertain his ego

[untold socket]

I feel guilty about leaving Christine behind so I usually have a mod to bring her back to the Mojave with me - even if her ending says otherwise.

[nimble bramble]

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Vera_Keyes'_medical_report

Even Sinclair knew she's gonna be dead soon apparently

[untold socket]

She gets screwed over by Elijah, again in Big MT - then Dean traps her in an auto-doc? jfc.

[untold socket]

Oh wait, this implies he was trying to help her through it, too.

[nimble bramble]

Her ending is actually kinda badass if you don't shove her in the elevator

[untold socket]

I never do, but I hate leaving her behind. lol I know she becomes like an Eternal Warden which is insane and cool but.

[nimble bramble]

Probably happened near the end of the story

[nimble bramble]

Christine... Hmm, is more complicated than Vera IMO
We dunno her full story but she admitted that she could be even more ruthless than Dean, as a BoS assassin she's probably done horrible things
I can see that guarding the Casino might be a good choice for her, no more messy BoS business, it's basically her chance to begin her life again

[untold socket]

I was looking into it earlier, but I'm empathetic to Christine because Elijah forced her into the BoS CoS.
So her rage is a bit validated. Especially cause it's implied Elijah forced her and veronica's relationship to end so Elijah could further manipulate Veronica.

[nimble bramble]

Say what you will about the BoS from the TV show but at least they're... "queer friendly"?

Obsidian never gave us a chance to help her reconnect with Veronica (assuming they were the only lesbian couple back then)

[untold socket]

Yeah it's one of the reason I bring Christine back with me as a companion mod because having her alongside Veronica, now that Elijah is dead is at least my own little headcanon ending that they could end on a happy note for all the shit they've been through.

[nimble bramble]

Good on you 👍
Maybe it's just my "nihilism" but I don't really think too hard on these tragic stories
Canonically speaking there's not much you do so I just try my best to pick the "good choices" and let things happen

I still dunno how I feel about the "fog of war" approach ngl

[lament lichen]

Same, it kinda..... devalues what we did in NV if it's basically 'oh who knows what happened' all the way down the line.

[nimble bramble]

They did Novac dirty

Where's No-Bark?!

[untold socket]

For me it's just more so I've accepted that the IP belongs to Bethesda, my choices they are mine - for my characters, and my playthrough, but I will never have the final say on what's canon for the world .

Like if I had it my way , I would prefer companions to get decently realistic endings based on their stories . And not have them killed off , or be forced into more tragedy y'know ? But I know we're probably not gonna see a single one in the show - and it is what it is . lol

[lament lichen]

For me, I just consider the TV show 'what happened if the Courier didn't survive getting blammed by Benny'.

[untold socket]

Which is fine , I guess it's more so the TV show is probably what Bethesda will use to push events forward in Fallout 5 and the future of the lore cause they kind of have to , so it can't like be ignored I mean .
But I've come to kind of accept that , me personally .

[nimble bramble]

Well, it's gonna be Todd's world till he finally retires
At least we might get to see Slim

[lament lichen]

Still would've been preferable if they just picked one NV ending to build off of; would risk angering fans of the other three outcomes, but they'd be angry regardless. This wishy-washy fence-sitting stuff just feels cowardly in a way.

[nimble bramble]

It's probably gonna be on the West Coast
Might be why they decided to "wipe the NCR clean" (Elijah approves)

[untold socket]

I agree, but the moment they said they won't- I tossed that hope out the window. Lol so I expect none of the endings will mean anything unless Bethesda says otherwise.

[untold socket]

Yeah, I think so too. Gives us a reason to help them out again , but also introduce a more techno-religious Brotherhood on the west as well. Plus Enclave, and whatever other factions we'll see.

[lament lichen]

Eh, I'd honestly be fine if the Enclave rides off into the sunset after the show; there's only so many times we can kick their butt before it just feels like checking a box off on the checklist.

[nimble bramble]

BoS from the TV show looks like a medieval flavoured Enclave

[untold socket]

Realistically , what annoys me is the Enclave should technically be the strongest and largest having actual every advantage possible and they still somehow lose for the sake of the plot. If they restructure the Enclace to be more shadowy this time around, I'll be okay with it cause maybe we'll see a different side to them we haven't before if that makes sense.

[untold socket]

They're techno-religious, which is how the west is supposed to differ from the East. The East and West are not supposed to be alike.

[nimble bramble]

It's kinda like the "Dragonbreak" approach if you're familiar with the Elder Scrolls game
Well, they did ignore the fact you could assassinate Neloth back in Morrowind tho

[nimble bramble]

I wonder what they're gonna do with the East Coast BoS in the show
Arthur Maxson's BoS is also filled with techno religious fanatics

[untold socket]

The opposite, Maxson hates worship. Lol The East Coast is gonna be the more palettable Brotherhood - the one that's more 'good' leaning. Given Maxson's rule is pretty firm yet not tyrannical. I'm sure they are gonna draw clear Distinctions between both East & West going forward.

[upbeat pumice]

Honestly I can respect people just having their own head canons
However, what I can't just understand is the amount of people that will get angry once their head canons are proven to not be actual canon
Like dude,

1. The meaning of head canon is that you come up with something canon in your head, of course those types of things are prone to be proven the contrary because unless you are the head writer for whatever you have the head canon of it is always going to have a margin of error, don't put your faith on something so fickle
2. You know you can always just, pretend that your head canon is still valid, y'know? That's the good thing about head canons; for as fickle as they are, they are also very strong given than no one else is inside your head, no one should have a problem with you just, following a whole other flow

[errant spoke]

https://x.com/i/status/2002489658190729633

🔞 𝐌𝐎𝐗 ☢️👍 (Spoilers!) (@vcndrell)

I have no way of verifying if any of these are accurate, but Serializd has episode names listed for all 8 episodes of Fallout S2.

X · Dec 20, 2025, 9:21 PM

[nimble bramble]

Danse would sometimes yell "godless heathens" in combat, don't think he's supposed to be an outlier (synth or not)
I can see that the show will try to portray the Commonwealth BoS as the "good guys" tho

[upbeat pumice]

Yeah compared to the West BoS they def will

[nimble bramble]

It's almost like Beth is sending their own fav factions to the West Coast for Fallout 5

[upbeat pumice]

Eh
BoS wank like this is pre-Bethesda

As much as some people don't want to accept it, it started with Tactics and Interplay/Black Isle

We don't talk about BOS

Just know that BOS would be the way things would be for Fallout without Bethesda/Obsidian intervention

Anyways in conclusion yeah
BoS have many chapters, pretty much a whole nation wide reach
This chapter to chapter intervention in theory should/could shcould have happened before

[jolly dust]

woulda shcoulda cshoulda

[nimble bramble]

Yeah, I get what you mean

I low-key recall that they'll probably give us the minuteman too? Correct me if I'm wrong

[upbeat pumice]

You mean the NCR.

You mean the NCR leaks we had.
That someone confused with Minutemen.

[oblique kestrel]

After watching Ep 1, I'm debating... keep watching or binge the series at the end..... 1 was a great recap and a little motion..

[upbeat pumice]

Honestly I would keep watching because I know the spoilers will just get frequent and worse in intensity

[oblique kestrel]

yea... other side is I watched with a friends prime membership so I have to re-up myself if I wanna keep going. 😄

[upbeat pumice]

Your decision man
I'm no one to dictate your mind
Just some one to speak with it

[oblique kestrel]

Hmmmm so now I have a heart...whats that.

Ah.. the newbie flag....

[mighty scaffold]

Na there was a blue flag with a lightning bolt with crossed swords people thought was minute man

[upbeat pumice]

Ohhhh you mean that one vertiberd shot?

[mighty scaffold]

Yup

[nimble bramble]

Ah noice, link pls

[upbeat pumice]

Sure thing fellow citizen!
Just give me a sec

[upbeat pumice]

https://www.reddit.com/r/fnv/comments/1k09k85/leaked_set_photos_at_los_angeles/

[upbeat pumice]

Honestly it might be

I did kinda see it

Plus East Coast BoS uses yellow
And this was a yellow-blue flag

[mighty scaffold]

Yea maybe they have a bos minute man alliance also what if sole survivor shows up

[nimble bramble]

Seems like all the NCR fighters we've seen so far are just partisans (and raiders?!)
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing real troopers! Hopefully it's not from some flashback

[upbeat pumice]

Believe citizen
The Republic stands

HELL YEAH I'D LOVE ME SOME NCR LORE DROPS BY THE LADY FROM THE TEASER
I WANT THAT JUICY JUICY CONTEXT I WANT THAT STORY

I WANT NCR LORE

[nimble bramble]

Do you think we'll get to see the Shi?

[upbeat pumice]

Shiiiiii I hope

[lament lichen]

I'd settle for the NCR dogwalking the Brotherhood just to remind them who exactly made them play hide and go seek for so long.

[nimble bramble]

Or they could be saving this faction for fo5? We only got to hear about them in Kellogg's head so far, it's safe to assume they're still doing ok

[mighty scaffold]

The shi are a main faction in San Francisco in fallout 2

Descendants of a Chinese submarine crew

[upbeat pumice]

Actually could be
In New Vegas they were actually going to include a line referencing the nuking of San Francisco until Bethesda told them to cut it

[nimble bramble]

Should've been more specific, I meant the latest update on the Shi according to Bethesda's Fallout games

[mighty scaffold]

Fair

[nimble bramble]

Wow fr?!

[mighty scaffold]

Yes

Chris avellone wanted to include a line about the enclave nuking San Francisco for revenge for them blowing up the enclave main base Oil Rig

[nimble bramble]

Oh, interesting

What's this server's general opinion on Chris btw? Sorry, ik this topic can be quite controversial

[worthy warren]

Neutral to negative

We appreciate his work on the series but most people see many of his ideas for the series as generally not good

He’s great when he’s on a team with other writers but if you let him off the leash it’s not the best

[frosty tapir]

do we think this is theyll expand on the nuking of shady sands and turn it into an enclave plot for revenge of them losing against the NCR and then being hunted down by them

[bold karma]

i can't speak for the server but my opinion is that he's a good writer whose also very opinionated about stuff he writes and sometimes this can results in great stuff like Kotor 2 or very divise stuff like Lonesome Road which, played conventionally, is basically him shitting on the NCR and coming up with a cheap way of resetting things

[frosty tapir]

ye lowkey he can write very well but he just has a bad sense of direction for the fallout series in the big picture

and sometimes he "overwrites"

[bold karma]

of course in the narrative itself Ulysses is not well and can be talked down but while I respect how he write I also think he can be overwrought

[bold karma]

remember how apparently he wrote the cut legion companion that had like crazy long dialogue files

[frosty tapir]

ye exactly lmao and i like ulysses but he just went really over the top with it

[bold karma]

yeah you ca see that with how Ulysses tend to be described as "bull bear bull bear"

[worthy warren]

No lol, it was just Hank being mad at being cucked

[frosty tapir]

thats moldover's version of events, if leaks are to be believed theyre gonna expand on why he nukes it and hopefully add some more depth to the reasoning

and moldover thought house was gonna nuke the world so she isnt the most reliable

[worthy warren]

Wha leaks? He had the ability to do it because of vault rec but the reasons were he got cucked

[bold karma]

i mean to me the nuking it never made sense because his family was in there, right? why'd he nuke a place with his children if he want them back? not sure about the timeline though

[frosty tapir]

i mean theres so much we dont know surrounding the whole thing yet we just dont know enough

[worthy warren]

He took them first

[hallow flint]

I mean he definitely got his children to safety before nuking it

[worthy warren]

Then nuked so nobody could come after him

[bold karma]

oh my bad then i'm dumb

[copper elbow]

Note that he announced the surface soon being "safe" at Lucy's wedding

I think he might've done it to destabilize existing powers and strengthen the revived vault-tec's position in the wasteland

[frosty tapir]

yeah this is what im getting at, vault tec clearly wants the monopoly so its msot likely NCR nukign is part of their plan rather than a personal vendetta of hank (tho this probably was an influence for his decision)

we know vault tec's contiguency for the world post nuclear war is that they alone will survive and then be able to shape the world above ground but unfortunately for them there are now all these big factions on the surface that can oppose them

[copper elbow]

It also seems like vault tec very much did not survive

So curiously vaults 31-33 might be one of their few intact contingencies

[frosty tapir]

yeah im sort of expecting them to do something similar to vault 0 or just have it so vault tec exists somewhere else in some capacity, or maybe just make it an enclave link. something to do with the shadowy guy above the meeting maybe

cause like if all thats left of vault tec's plan is hank then lmao what happened to all their planning

[upbeat pumice]

Yep!

[upbeat pumice]

Anyway yeah what Double said
Chris is good for what he did but god he can be annoying or outright frustrating as a person

Hell as a writer sometimes even

[nimble bramble]

He's not pro-legion either tho, right?

[frosty tapir]

na i dont think any of the writers think the legion are a good thing, he did wana expand them tho

[hallow flint]

Vault-tec still got us

[bold karma]

nah i think his issue is fallout getting too post post apocalyptic

[upbeat pumice]

I feel like he also misses the point sometimes about Fallout even
Yeah ofc Fallout is not only about the failures of capitalism but to assume that has never been a theme?
Idk

[bold karma]

ulysses's comments and such about the legion are better than the NCR but not too much either

[nimble bramble]

He prefers the theme park aesthetics?

[gilded bobcat]

Ulysses is a lost kid who's had 2 homes stolen from under him.

He talks about destiny as he's looking for meaning and a purpose in the shithole that is the wasteland.

Reality is chaos can be a real bitch for no reason.

I wouldn't put too much weight in to his ramblings.

[nimble bramble]

That's why I never killed him

[gilded bobcat]

I feel sorry for him now I know who he is.

[upbeat pumice]

This is the guy some of those types of Fallout fans defend, mind you
The total opposite of what they think Fallout should be

[gilded bobcat]

But all this talk of destiny? I'm a courier and you led me here with a signal bitch.

[frosty tapir]

na but ulysess is also a massive hypocrit, his entire adult life is spent destroying other communites and cultures for the legion but he gets so offended when you do it to him on accident

[gilded bobcat]

Which is a valid complaint tbh

FO has always been at its strongest when looking at post post apocalypse.

The world is over - now what.

The show obliterating shady does somewhat put a stop to some of the NCR's weight in that.

[nimble bramble]

Sorry, I'm mostly a TES fan so I'm not too familiar with the situation
Could you elaborate a bit more?

[frosty tapir]

i do think the direction of the show right now is quite post post apocalypse, the tv show is juggling lots of factions vying for control over the wasteland

[gilded bobcat]

Although to be fair the show does have one of the most blatant examples of not that, when Lucy sees the board with the history on it, and the flag.

[gilded bobcat]

Yeah it's definitely on the right side of things. It's not FO3's "Everything's fucked."

Flea soup aside.

[frosty tapir]

lmao

[upbeat pumice]

Oh ofc again I say
We need more nation-states in other parts of the US
But still to me, the fact that some people like NV purists or Creetosis defend him just because he worked with the old team without knowledge of the fact that what he stands for is the total opposite of what they want is just funny to me

[gilded bobcat]

Yeah it's a hard one really.

NV has some of the best examples of what Fallout can be I've seen in the Franchise.

So it's easy to see why people like it... but on the flip side, if you go too far that way, it stops being fallout as much

[nimble bramble]

I refuse to believe that NCR is truly gone-zo just cos their capital got nuked
Beth probably needed a much weaker NCR to make fo5
Can't have a Fallout game in a rather peaceful region

[upbeat pumice]

Imagine Star Wars, right?
How like, Star Wars has not been really like, good at all since the Disney acquisition
Imagine that but like, make the products after-acquisition in its place pretty much ranging from ok to great
Make some of the fandom believe they are in a us vs them narrative and therefore make them 10x more divided
And then make a insufferable vocal minority
Voila
NV purists/hardcore fanboys, aka those Fallout fans

[gilded bobcat]

NCR can't be gone but it's not looking good.

[frosty tapir]

oh na the NCR is still about

[gilded bobcat]

I mean Moldaver's lot had NCR stuff but it was so fucking ragtag

[copper elbow]

I'd say it's still pretty thoroughly post apocalypse just on account of the way they're doing things

[frosty tapir]

i think the direction the show is going is the BOS are gonna suffer some kind of substantial loss as well, just cause of alot of foreshadowing dialogue

[gilded bobcat]

NCR was spread far and wide and insanely well resourced, they're still around, but I'm worried about what the show does to them given that's all that's left by shady.

[copper elbow]

Gunfights all over the place, ratty paramilitaries, etc

[gilded bobcat]

No graffiti etc, no posters

Like this is a group capable of flinging vertibirds around and this is by its capital, I'd expect to see more.

[frosty tapir]

there are certain leaks about the NCR's state right now but i wont talk about it here for the sake of spoilers

[copper elbow]

Imagine if Morrowind elitists had actually robust arguments for Morrowind being the best game ever made

[gilded bobcat]

Yeah I've seen them, but I'm still concerned the transformation has been done to make the show work, and not because it makes sense.

[copper elbow]

That's kinda where Fallout is

[gilded bobcat]

Same with the BoS being far more cultic.

[copper elbow]

They really need to do some exposition dumps on that because quintus' chapter is weird as hell

[hallow flint]

Everyone is.

The vault dwellers.

Caesar’s legion

And still the ncr

[nimble bramble]

Are you familiar with Michael Kirkbride?
MK cultists can be super annoying in the TES community
You can't say they haven't made any good content but some of the fans can be extremely toxic

[frosty tapir]

yeah i think this is gonna be the direction of the show, everyone loses and hopefully thatll pave the way for something new in the fallout universe

[untold socket]

Reminds me of the AllinAll debacle in TES.

[upbeat pumice]

||The photos? Nah you can post them here, its all good||

[hallow flint]

||3 factions are having a civil war in season 2||

[gilded bobcat]

I'd argue the BoS may have already had a substantial loss, and turned to a cult like environment and recruiting from the wasteland to keep them in order.

[copper elbow]

Something something Ulysses something something the divide

[gilded bobcat]

Because that BoS is not like any BoS we've seen before.

And the BoS itself was very much against that kind of thinking.

[frosty tapir]

||theres one video as well thats uh quite telling of the NCR's state||

[upbeat pumice]

Wait what
||Is this the leak chrazzy was talking about?||

[frosty tapir]

thats definitely a different leak

[upbeat pumice]

||Idk if you could pass it then but perhaps a recap?||

[frosty tapir]

whos the third

[upbeat pumice]

BoS

[hallow flint]

Well the ncr isn’t as far as I know but all of the main ones are

[gilded bobcat]

Yeah BoS clearly already does just from the post E1 stuff in E1

and also what we saw last season

[copper elbow]

The lack of t-51 and t-45 is still perplexing too

[upbeat pumice]

T-45 is shown for the Alaska scenes

[hallow flint]

They don’t feel like creating all those different suits 💔

[untold socket]

BoS being East vs West with Bethesda drawing a clear distinction between the two . I think Legion was the other one about to enter civil war ? Didn't an interview talk about the Legion having a Romulus / Remus type of plot where two brothers are vying for power ?

[copper elbow]

I hope we see more of it then

[untold socket]

I forget the 3rd Faction

[hallow flint]

Correct

[copper elbow]

Caesar had kids? God damn it

[gilded bobcat]

Could just be adopted

[untold socket]

Probably not kids , but the two leaders are confirmed siblings for sure . That much I remember .

[gilded bobcat]

Or powerful generals

[nimble bramble]

Yeah, I've noticed the parallel

Morrowind is still one of the best things that's ever happened to the franchise IMO

Not a huge fan of the "generic fantasy" approach tbh

A lot of the BGS devs have admitted that they've been trying to "ride the wave" when it coming to TES games

Ofc Morrowind copied a lot of stuff from Dune but I'd say they've done a great job

[gilded bobcat]

realistically it's why I always say the Legion is going to fail

[copper elbow]

Lanius and lernius

[gilded bobcat]

because when Caesar dies, there's no defined succession

[untold socket]

😂

[gilded bobcat]

And if someone does that cleanly, when they die there's no defined succession

The cult of personality stops then what do you do etc.

[frosty tapir]

boone has dialogue that says ncr spys say there is a line of sucession but how true that really is no idea

[gilded bobcat]

Meanwhile the NCR can lose a President then just gets a new one.

[worn ruin]

||So whats the video?||

[copper elbow]

Morrowind is still an awesome game on account of being the only game I've ever played that makes alchemy a profitable career choice

[untold socket]

It goes to Lanius , but like I mentioned previously . Ulysses implies that Lanius might not be one singular man . There's no confirmation of it .

[upbeat pumice]

||@frosty tapir I neeeeed the NCR video you are talking about
Or at least a recap of it||

[copper elbow]

This would imply Caesar has a backlog of 8 foot tall traumatized tribal super soldiers

[gilded bobcat]

There may be a technical one but it's a huge issue with dictatorships in general.

The cult of personality means people have to be Loyal to the last guy... when he's gone, who do you pick?

The one the old guy picked, or the one that actually had all the power the old guy didn't pick so he didn't overthrow him etc.

Once the dear leader is gone, all bets are off.

And many dictatorships collapse.

[frosty tapir]

||oh yeah sorry, it was a video a while back that was on twitter and posted into the discord. it was footage of the prerelease where there were NCR soldiers marching with a backdrop of a built up town in the background. it was in line with what the showrunners said about how the NCR would be treated very well in season 2. how valid the leak is tho no clue||

[untold socket]

Or people just pick up the mantle of Legate Lanius without others knowing . He says no one sees him without his mask , and no one has .

[bold karma]

yeah its how i see him

[upbeat pumice]

||Let's hope it is because that's huge||

[frosty tapir]

i dont have the actual video but it was posted in #fallout_tv

[copper elbow]

He is still a pretty distinct physical character which is kind of the point of him in the first place

[upbeat pumice]

||You scared me I thought it would have been actual confirmation on the death of the NCR||

[worn ruin]

||Do you recall when?||

[copper elbow]

Guy built like a super mutant is sent out to personally eviscerate every enemy of the legion ever

[frosty tapir]

the video itself seemed legit cause the uniforms matched photo leaks of the ncr uniforms (that is to say it didnt look like a cgi render or ai)

[gilded bobcat]

There's no way they could kill the NCR. It's so widely spread and so economically valid.

[hallow flint]

@copper elbow

[gilded bobcat]

I'm just annoyed we haven't seen more given where we are.

[untold socket]

That's assuming the Legion care enough to question it . If Lanius dies at Hoover dam , and down the line someone picks up his mantle and armor to rally them . They probably won't bat any eye . Ulysses says the SYMBOL is more important than the man .

And Lanius is the symbol the Legion needs .

[frosty tapir]

||thankfully im pretty confident that wont be the case. the showrunners seem adamant the NCR are well respected in season 2||

[frosty tapir]

|| sorry cant recall, a couple weeks. it wouldve been after the prerelease was screened||

[upbeat pumice]

||I LOVE YOUUUUU, CALIFORNIAAAA||

[untold socket]

So it would make sense if Lanius dies , someone along the line tries to pick up his mantle regardless of height , or status or whatever . They probably won't question it .

[gilded bobcat]

Also I may be biased. There is literally an NCR flag next to me.

[copper elbow]

It's an interesting thought from Ulysses but there's not much indicating to that effect ingame

[nimble bramble]

Ofc you'd know
That guy is not mentally well, unfortunately
He treats MK as the sole legitimate writer of the series
And gets mad at ppl for not agreeing with his opinions
Apparently he also scammed his patreon supporters?

[untold socket]

I'm saying that his perspective offers that as a possibility in the show given the scuffed Lanius we got in the leaks. Lol

So it would very much not be a surprise.

[frosty tapir]

battle of the earth is crazy

[untold socket]

It just means they played off of that line of thinking that Ulysses offered

[nimble bramble]

Wait, does that mean you haven't played Skyrim?!

[oblique kestrel]

I've never played skyrim

[upbeat pumice]

I played a little bit of Skyrim

[nimble bramble]

Tbh I'm mostly a skybaby but I can't say I'd recommend the game
The writing is dogwater

Still, there're a lot of mods for Skyrim that actually care about writing great stories

The problem with BGS is that most quests aren't written by actual writers
I remember they said that they'd just write ideas on sticky notes and work on the ones that won't take too long to make
Hopefully that has changed

[untold socket]

There very much that one of the brother's is potentially wearing the Lanius mantle, and the other one is probably more Caesar-esque.
Very curious to see how it plays out.

[worn ruin]

||now I'm going be bothered about this, if it was on twitter it's probably gone now, when you say prerelease do you mean it was like an episode preview||

[nimble bramble]

Macaulus Culcinus?

[untold socket]

Yep, i think he plays one of the Brothers - and the other is Lanius.

[nimble bramble]

Hmm, do you think we'll get to see any Legion characters from FNV?

[untold socket]

Unironically? I prefer ESO's writing. Lol As a huge ES stan - and the reason is, too, is because they're not restricted.

[untold socket]

Same roles, different characters for sure.

[worn ruin]

I did see a guy on twitter who claimed he was an ||NCR trooper extra on the Freeside set, he did post a an image of the NCR trooper costume before it was leaked by someone else later so some credence||

[untold socket]

We'll probably see a new leader for the Frumentarii.

[nimble bramble]

You're also on ESO-RP so not surprised
It's not perfect but you can tell the writers were trying (a lot harder back then)
Too bad it's an MMO so most stories are linear af, you can't really do much with choices

[untold socket]

Everything I complained that was lacking in ES, ESO delivered on. More Daedric triad? We got that. More druid content? We got that. Proper Breton nobles? We got that.
They're linear, but most MMO stories are, unfortunately the story isn't SWTOR-lite, it's genuinely just a typical ES-Styled MMO but I enjoy the world so, it's good for me.

[frosty tapir]

okay so after extensive search ive not found the video but i have found the picture of the sceen im talking about

[untold socket]

Was he the only extra that posted it? I thought there was more.

[untold socket]

Yeah that is definitely NCR

[frosty tapir]

its a video of this scene

magnus posted that photo

[untold socket]

Their uniforms look clean, unlike the Moldaver ragtags we saw.

[nimble bramble]

The Legion didn't really get much development time so the only memorable chars besides Eddie Shallow (Bless His Tumour) IMO were Lanius, Vulpes and maybe Lucius? Everyone else was kinda just there for target practice

[frosty tapir]

bless his tumour 😭

[worn ruin]

||If someone can claim the NCR are treated well from the premiere stuff that would mean the NCR are in episode 2, I don't think any premiere went past ep 2, unless they were an insider||

[nimble bramble]

Hmm, the Breton lore is still kinda lacking IMO but the Druids stuff from the Systres was actually great, hopefully BGS will actually mention them in TES6

Lmao you've heard about the Elder Kings 2 debacle, right?

[frosty tapir]

true i dont expect them to turn up in ep 2 personally, so maybe the video i saw was from before the prerelease

[untold socket]

Breton stuff was lacking , but still better than what we've gotten previously - which is all I wanted. Lol

[untold socket]

You are correct, no premiere went past episode 2.

which would also mean the next few episodes are gonna be packed pretty full with stuff.

[nimble bramble]

The biggest problem with humans in TES universe IMO is still the lack of distinctions

Breton, Nibenese and Colovian (some of them look like Nords) are still too similar thx to Beth's generic fantasy approach

[worn ruin]

Found a review that talked about the first three episodes, ||In episode 2 Lucy and the Ghoul separate when Lucy wants to save some wastelanders and ends up encountering the Legion, EP 3 is Legion and NCR heavy episode||

[untold socket]

Yeah i figured the separation was gonna happen first. Which is good, cause it hopefully means that encounter with the Legion will shed some light for how Lucy views things.

[worn ruin]

Yeah, the Legion are just about the worst the wasteland can throw at Lucy's worldview

[untold socket]

You know what I just realized ? I wonder if Hank's faction dialogue somewhat plays a apart - maybe Lucy experiencing the 'factions' Vault tec, Legion, NCR, Brotherhood, House(maybe), will help her build an understanding of what her Father meant, but she'll still end up advocating for them having the right to exist, at the very least.

[frosty tapir]

i can imagine coop listening to lucy trying to convince him to go save some people by going after the legion and him just thinking how terrible of an idea having to deal with the legion is

[untold socket]

Agreed.
It looks like the separation too, is Coop goes to the NCR - Lucy goes to the Legion. Plus that subtle line the NCR soldier gives Coop about him previously fighting for what they believed in.

[frosty tapir]

i hope this is the case, right now though i feel she needs WAY more exposure to all the factions. she hasnt really interacted with any of them

[worn ruin]

I think Lucy will encounter escaping Legion slaves, which The Ghoul immediately identifies as people they shouldn't help if they don't want trouble

[frosty tapir]

i wonder if they will show a crucifiction since thats such a big identifier for legion might be too mcuh for tv

not like a live one obviously but i mean like just them about

[worn ruin]

From the previews the ||slave rags are a one to one from the game, with the red cross||

[untold socket]

Idk that Axolotl birth was unhinged lol idk if they'll hold back on the legion crucifixions.

[frosty tapir]

true the show has been gory but im unsure how dark it will go

[untold socket]

Giving birth to a litter of them only for them to eat you alive? Yikes.

[frosty tapir]

then again if literal legion slavery is in it

[untold socket]

There was def legion slaves, esp in the leaked pictures.

[nimble bramble]

Can't believe I'll actually play Legion's advocate but if you're talking about gore n stuff?

Them skirt boys got nothing on the Fiends

I think we've only seen 2 Fiends (disguised) so far iirc

[untold socket]

Fiends is something we probably won't see.

[frosty tapir]

they could turn up for one scene similar to the khans but ye doubt there will be much of them

[untold socket]

Yeah, nothing in a narrative capacity I don't think

[frank ingot]

id hate to actually see raider gangs outside of like those 2min scenes to just show theyre there

theres enough plot to go around, and enough memberberry stuff

[frosty tapir]

i do wonder how confusing tv only viewers find it all

like there is ALOT going

[frank ingot]

my m8 is watching it and he just binges it, doesnt rly stop to think

i can assume that is 99% of the watchers

[hallow flint]

And in the trailers

[nimble bramble]

Season 1 was very casual friendly

[frosty tapir]

do you think hes understanding it all pretty well

[oblique kestrel]

I think S2 is casual friendly too.... so far..

[untold socket]

Yeah, from what I can tell the show is geared towards casuals, as all the fmily & friends I've introduced the show to can follow along pretty well - it's partially why I think that a lot of the theories, concepts, or plots they're gonna push in the show aren't gonna be that deeply lore driven.

[frank ingot]

understand the plot? idk i assume yes, its not a complex one

"survive the wasteland" and "chase the mcguffin"

[oblique kestrel]

A good mix of -casual first timers can follow along, enough lore/easter eggs for fans to get giddy over.

[frosty tapir]

fair idk like ive obviously come into the show with quite a good background knowledge of fallout so i have no idea how well tv onlys find it

[nimble bramble]

I've heard that a lot of the actors & writers for the show still haven't played any Fallout games yet, is it true?

[oblique kestrel]

Not sure. I know some actors/actresses do avoid existing IP products as to not influence their own method/style.. they don't want to copy someone elses idea of what a character should be. Great example is the guy who wrote the Tim Burton version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory never watched the 70s version... he didn't want to copy or steal ideas. In fact he didn't find out till later that his version wasn't as 'scary' as the original..

[untold socket]

So this is often a big misconception that floats around - The showrunners said they could if they want to - in regards if the actors should play the games or not, people like Ella who plays Lucy, and I believe Maxson's actor, chose to play the games to better understand their role, lore, and the world.

But Walton goggins chose not to, because he wanted to go in blind - with a fresh experience of the world.

And it's obvious that the writers have played the game to some extent, there's no way you even know about Vault 24 without having played New Vegas or know a lot about it. Half of the FNV community didn't even know Vault 24 was cut content.

[shrewd berry]

Kellogs childhood actually takes place before New Vegas

[untold socket]

Yes, but there's no reason to imply the Shi are a dead faction, since they relatively stay out of Wasteland politics, I believe.
I know there's quite a few hoping they're still around.

[oblique kestrel]

Well, it's also possible that Bethesda just gave them all the notes and stuff too. I know that they did give the production team the 3d models of props from the game, and they printed some of them (like the Camera from the birthday party)

[untold socket]

Yes but there's details that aren't in notes that we see in the show. Like Lucy shooting the car and blowing it up during her Khans fight. That's something you'd only know the devastation of, if you've played the games.

[oblique kestrel]

They did get the dino direction wrong

[untold socket]

Yes, but that's a different topic.

Game worlds are never transfered to movie/tv shows 1 to 1. So there's going to be geopgrahical and locale changes that people have to except because scaling is going to be different - larger even.

Novac also has a pool so who knows.

[frosty tapir]

i love walter goggins way of immersing in the story. he hasnt played the games which iwas very skeptical at first but when you listen to him in interviews you realise hes very knowledgable of fallout and deepy interested in it. listening to him discussing the themes of fallout like a piece of literature is so engaging. you realise he understands fallout better than alot of game fans

[untold socket]

Yes, exactly, he's passionate. THAT'S the important bit. You don't NEED to play the games. As long as you care about the world you've got a vested interest in. Which he has admitted he's deeply invested and interested in it now, he's become super knowledgable of it.

[frosty tapir]

true i have a lot of respect for him. like you can hear the passion by the way he talks about it, which yeah is crazy since he hasnt even played the games. hes purely fascinated just by the ideas and themes that fallout has

[oblique kestrel]

He keeps coming up more in media... Loved him in Hateful 8... didn't know his name, but once I heard the Ghoul talk I was giddy

[untold socket]

He's in Hateful 8, Django Unchained, Sons of Anarchy, White Lotus, Invincible, Preadtor, Maze Runner - he's in a lot. He's a really good actor.

[oblique kestrel]

... I've seen django, not rememering, will google. Havn't seen the rest except Maze Runner. Don't remember him in that either. (Don't remember the movie for that matter, aside from the green field and walls.)

[nimble bramble]

Maxson's actor?

[untold socket]

Walton plays one of the guys hired on the Ranch as a gunman.

Walton is also in Maze Runner - Death Cure.

[untold socket]

Maximus, I meant. Lol

Aaron Moten.

[oblique kestrel]

Yea, I saw the django... But honestly watched that more for Christoph Waltz. I swear do a movie or show with Christoph and Walton..

[untold socket]

I forget he's in Sons of Anarchy, too.

[hallow flint]

Aaron actually didn’t play the games. But the reasoning is because he doesn’t want to know stuff that Maximus wouldn’t know.

Like Maximus doesn’t know how different other chapters of the bos Is.

[untold socket]

That makes more sense ; I more so meant in general that the Showrunners advised the cast that playing the games was up to their discretion specifically.

[hallow flint]

Oh okay

[untold socket]

That no one was forced to play them , but no one was forced not to play them - everyone had that sort of freedom to choose if they wanted to.

[nimble bramble]

So only Ella played the game (fo4)?

[untold socket]

Yeah, just 4 i think - she said she's distracted by the side quests the most.

[hallow flint]

She plans on playing new Vegas when season 2 ends

[untold socket]

Think she said the bigs things was she's not really a gamer, she gets sidetracked, collects, explores, etc etc.

[untold socket]

she did mention this, as well

[oblique kestrel]

See, she does know the golden rule 🙂

[frosty tapir]

thats a pretty cool way for him to approach to to be fair, as an actor it must be cool to explore the BOS as the character is

[nimble bramble]

Nobody plays 4 for the main story lol

https://tenor.com/view/theres-always-room-for-family-family-first-family-is-important-theres-always-time-for-family-household-gif-16055741

But seriously tho, go find dad, go find son and now go find dad/daughter/wife

What next?

[frank ingot]

the actors should put in the work though. say what you wanna say about rings of power but the best actor in that show is also the only tolkien nerd in the show

[frosty tapir]

idk i mean how far does one go for that? should they play fallout 3 nv and 4? thats too much of a demand for an actor

[untold socket]

They're not obligated to?

[frosty tapir]

plus walter goggins is a prime example of doing a great job without playing the games - he still understands the source material just without acc playing it

[untold socket]

Yeah, I was gonna say - this show alone is a prime example of them not being obligated or being forced to play the games in order to deliver a decent performance.

[frank ingot]

its just a good attitude to have when youre making an adaptation, so youre working on someone elses source material. house of the dragon is slop and it doesnt help that the lead producer PROUDLY exclaims she did not read the books or even watch game of thrones, it comes across as lazy if you mess up.

[untold socket]

I don't disagree, but it's not needed for it to be good. It's possible to be good with or without.

Walton Goggins is a perfect example of understanding the source material without touching the games, with his performance being amazing. It's not required.

[frank ingot]

most people who worked on peter jackson's LOTR were doing it out of love, that's why it shows. obviously there is a business element involved becuase you want actors that mainstream audiences are drawn to, and you cant hope to recruit them to your project if you stipulate them extra work.

goggins is playing a pretty simple character. hes basically just a cowboy with a vandetta.

if you were to play house you'd need to at least understand his character in NV, or at least every director has to

[untold socket]

Literally every interview with him expresses otherwise and better understanding of the source material than majority of the community has? I could understand that line of thinking if you live in a bubble, or reject any communication the actors have made but it's simply not true.

[nimble bramble]

Depends on the characters
Cooper's life story was never mentioned previously so you don't need to play any games to understand his character

I guess Justin probably has played New Vegas before? His transatlantic accent is actually pretty good IMO

[frank ingot]

examples?

[frosty tapir]

i have to disagree with this i think the ghoul is easily the most complex and in depth character. he has this duality with his prewar life conflicting with his cowboy ghoul persona which is clearly a coping mechanism for him losing everything

[frank ingot]

also i was talking about house. like i said i think the ghoul is a basic character

its a basic character in terms of how his character interacts with lore, you can easily analogue his experience with any character that had a previous life. but when you are dealing with a character that is very specific in their portrayal in the lore like house you need details

at this point houses character is so complex you might argue hes the most complex character in hte lore, and the only person who really knows him is john gonzalez or whoever penned his stuff

[frosty tapir]

with house's portrayl it does remain to be seen how it will do later in season 2, but from what we get so far i do think his portrayal is completely fine doing justice to the actual house

[frank ingot]

i think its my biggest gripe with the show so far

his portrayal

[untold socket]

Justin Theroux's acting JUST came out.
Walton Goggins has had the ghoul role for the past almost year and a half - Walton goggins has had way more time to show and express his portrayal.

[nimble bramble]

A lot of ppl think he's being too reckless and sadistic in episode 1

[frank ingot]

yeah true, we've only seen a couple of scenes of house

[frosty tapir]

yeah i actually do agree with this on some level tbf

too early to say for certain

[frank ingot]

he comes across as having too much bravado imo if the body double is actually him. by 2077 he should have been firmly a recluse i think?

[frosty tapir]

i assumed him having the body double was showing how he had become recluse- he was gone from the spotlight himself fo rso long that these guys in the bar cant even recognise him anymore

[untold socket]

The body double would be the start of it. If we're following his interpretation of Howard Hughes, then him having the body double indicates it's starting.

[copper elbow]

There seems to be some time between the pre war sequences and the bombs dropping

[untold socket]

Which i ASSUME they're keeping the inspiration, still.

[frosty tapir]

i do wish they dated the prewar flashbacks because we know from the ending of ep 1 s2 cooper still needs to: meet house, divorce his wife, get blacklisted from hollywood, become a birthday party entertainer etc

but is all that in the spam of months or years?

[untold socket]

Agreed, I can roughly get the idea of when they're taking place but.

[copper elbow]

They also need to completely scrub him from branding

[untold socket]

Confirmed dates would be nice.

[frosty tapir]

true get the blonde guy

[copper elbow]

Could be as early as 2075 tbh

[untold socket]

Roughly 2074-2077 is my assumption, yeah

[untold socket]

Months, i assume - or within a year, maybe. I imagine the stuff would devolve quick into that. But it would have to explain how Coop got his daughter to his wife, or how she was saved. That still needs to be answered, the assumption we're going off of is that he thinks they're alive. So there must be some reason, or something he did, or someone else did to give him that indication.

[frosty tapir]

i have a feeling theyll keep this information to be answered for season 3 given season 2 seems pretty vegas / house centred

altho that begs the question of what theyll do with coopers character this season

[untold socket]

This, this is why I think we'll probably get some sort of hint what happened to his family, this season - but he won't find them, yet.

[frosty tapir]

the actress for his daughter will have outgrowned the character by the time we see her again lol

[copper elbow]

Elaborate on how he lost his family probably

Maybe show us more of his backstory

[untold socket]

If they start filming season three soon, it should be okay?

[frosty tapir]

problem is im assuming coopers past will be worked through chronologically from now on which will ultimately lead back to ep1 s1 and what happened after that

[frosty tapir]

true i think they start work summer 2026 but dont quote me on that

[copper elbow]

Aren't they gonna show anchorage a bit per some of the teasers

[frosty tapir]

oh that is a good point actually so maybe the flashbacks will jump around a bit

[untold socket]

Yes, it is confirmed we get Anchorage flashbacks of Coop this season.

So far we know he's in t45-d and it's during a nighttime assault, I believe?

[frosty tapir]

one day we will see t51b 🙏

[untold socket]

The anchorage stuff was specifically teased in the "This Season" trailer - so it's def happening in Season 2.

[nimble bramble]

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_Man_from_Deadhorse

The movie was released in January and the bombs dropped in October, apparently

[frosty tapir]

they manage to scrub the vault boy logo everywhere in under 9 moths?

tbf maybe the vault boy logo was just based on cooper and has always been blonde

[untold socket]

Yeah this line specifically - " the new direction was needed to show that even a good person could be driven too far" describes Coop, and it's also why I mentioned in the other chat that he's using a movie character to cope.

[nimble bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/vault-boy-fallout-thu-thumbs-up-pouce-en-l'air-gif-12872992734180696380

[frosty tapir]

lol

[untold socket]

PR teams gotta work fast man. lol

[nimble bramble]

Hank saw that movie and spent months trying to find a chance to get an autograph from Coop

So it took probably less than half a year for our to lose everything

[frosty tapir]

kinda feel bad for cooper at the observatory cause the two prewar people (the first prewar people hes probably seen in 200 years) were either already dead (moldover) or just straight up didnt acknowledge him (hank) lol

[nimble bramble]

I'm still confused by Moldaver's story, so she's not with Vault tec but she managed to survive the nukes without aging at all
And she's lived as an NCR citizen for at least a few decades
How did she manage?

[frosty tapir]

we got no clue how she survived but hints at cryogen outside of vaults

[untold socket]

Her company got bought out by Vault Tec, she THOUGHT they had good intentions so she worked with them until she realized, then proceeded to work against them. We have no idea how she survived, the assumption is that she was frozen in a cryopod and was thawed out before Lucy's mother got to Shady Sands and left the Vault.

[frosty tapir]

the idea that vault tec were handed the solution to the resource wars and literal global peace but decided to get rid of it cause it conflicted with their goals of profit is such an incredible addition to the story btw

it also explains why things like hoover dam or helios one werent just further invested in; the system was literally built against it

[nimble bramble]

She was already a middle aged lady 200 years ago and the CG Hank was supposed to be in his... early 30s?
Assuming they thawed out round the same time...
She still looks too young IMO

[frosty tapir]

she might have thawed out much later than hank but i do agree tbf she does ALOT of stuff post leaving cryo stasis

im also surprised she became so devoted to the NCR that she started a cult dedicated to resurrecting shady sands

[nimble bramble]

What if she's another Kellogg?
Doesn't have to be tech but maybe she used implants to help her stay relatively "youthful"?
Like she's supposed to look much older than Hank but apparently not

[frosty tapir]

as of right now idk who shed get that kinda tech from, and also given shes dead i imagine theyll just go down the simplier route of explaining it is down to timeline stuff

she does look older post war btw, like not as much as hank but at least a decade id say

acc maybe even 2 decades now im looking at photos

[untold socket]

They weren't thawed out at the same time, odds are she was in a cryopod elsewhere entirely.

i guess that's me assuming Vault knew she was working against them.

Cause i doubt they'd keep her with bud's buds.

[frosty tapir]

that raises a point we dont acc know if vault tec discovered she was working against them so maybe she had access to another cryo vault

thats a whole nother can of worms tho

[untold socket]

Yeah, it's still super early to tell

i imagine we'll get more pre-war flashbacks of her though to confirm

[frosty tapir]

the real question is did the house body double survive the war

[untold socket]

probably not? I imagine House's focus was entirely saving Vegas.

[frosty tapir]

oh no definitely not im just curious as to what house did with him

[solid moss]

Unknown

[frosty tapir]

theyre doing a lot of giving house assistant's like: his body double, benny, the courier and now hank

[solid moss]

House probably wouldnt go out of his way to kill that one is most certainly
House is not the type of person to go out of his way to remove people who are helping him

[nimble bramble]

Hank got out in 2268
Rose moved to Shady Sands in 2277
The city probably got nuked in 2283

So Hank's physically in his 60s and Moldaver still looks like she's about 50-ish when she (she's actually older than Hank) died

[untold socket]

Yeah i don't think House killed him, but i don't think he went out of his way to protect him, either.

[untold socket]

Moldaver was probably before that, because it looked like she was an NCR Citizen in the flashbacks in Shady Sands, so probably she was thawed out before 2268.

She knew enough about the NCR to rally the ragtags around her, too.

[nimble bramble]

Ppl have been saying that the half-draugr we saw in Vegas was actually his body double

[frosty tapir]

she also cared deeply for the NCR for some reason which implies she was there a long time

[frosty tapir]

whos that

[untold socket]

I highly doubt it cause it would go against the Howard Hughes interpretation. Howard Hughes is the IRL inspo for Mr House.

[frosty tapir]

oh you mean house in the lucky 38

[untold socket]

And Howard Hughes looked like a draugr irl when they ID'd him.

[untold socket]

yeah

[nimble bramble]

The one you play golf with yes

[frosty tapir]

yeah i also think thats touching the nv canon too much which i doubt they ddo

well then again house is literally a character now so

[untold socket]

The body double concept is not that deep, Robert just used the body double for public appearances.

[frosty tapir]

yeah i do think its just this

also house still could totally be dead at this point in the fallout show

[untold socket]

Part of me leans yes, but the other part of me genuinely thinks the new Bethesda canon is just the Courier delivering the chip to House and leaving.

[frosty tapir]

i have no idea where they're taking his character tho

[frosty tapir]

they say in interviews and stuff they decided to make it so all factions think theyve won, but without seeing s2 this could literally mean anything lol

[nimble bramble]

It's almost like she stopped ageing at some point, how convenient

[frosty tapir]

but i dont think she did she looks quite old

[untold socket]

Yeah, this is true.

[untold socket]

She didn't she aged a lot, lol maybe it's stress? I dunno.

[solid moss]

That is like the weirdest way to do it

[untold socket]

Agreed. Like if i had it my way, picking an ending and sticking to it would be best but they chose an ambigious way to do it - and now we're stuck with it.

[nimble bramble]

House needs to live somehow if that's the case

[solid moss]

To be fair
Its techinally a good thing because that means there are no true ending of the new vegas
However, that just confuses the plot because now they have to work with it

[frosty tapir]

yeah idek how thats gonna work cause all the individual endings in nv seem pretty definitive just comes down to who won the battle

[frosty tapir]

true

[untold socket]

That's exactly my point, House probably isn't dead. I think all the Courier did in canon is deliver the chip after killing Benny.

[solid moss]

There also the fact that house and yes man overrides each other

[nimble bramble]

Like how much?

[untold socket]

Which is gonna ruffle a lot of feathers because people headcanon'd the courier being a menace of Mojave.

[frosty tapir]

that too

tbf if the mojave is in a bad state (ncr mostly withdrawn, deathclaw on the strip etc) i imagine its bad enough that most people have moved on from what the courier did (even if thats kinda sad)

[untold socket]

It's gonna depend how old she was pre-war, she looked like she's in her 50s. But I could be incorrect about that.

[solid moss]

To be fair
There hardly any mention of the main characters in the main games for starters

[frosty tapir]

so the courier might cannonically have done crazy things or nothing but it probably wont matter in the tv show

[solid moss]

To be fair
He will be a myth but its been so many years that no body remember the exact details what happened

[frosty tapir]

yeah something like that

[untold socket]

This is why I think the Courier probably didn't do much - which sucks, yes, but the answer is probably the simplest one. He probably delivered the chip, and became myth.

[frosty tapir]

the chosen one did stuff but its mostly left to interpretation based on everything we see in nv

[untold socket]

Yup.

[solid moss]

And i hope there is just one scene where a group of people argue what he did with benny and i just wanna pciture it like

"No, listen frank, the courier came into the casino and shot everything up and killed benny that way!"
"No you ignorant fool, the courier worked with benny second hand man and then killed benny at his private place"
"YOU'RE ALL WRONG! THE COURIER IS A WOMAN AND SLEPT WITH BENNY AND KILLED HIM THAT WAY!"
Both individual look at the third one with pure confusion
"Frank, you hear this guy? That doesn't even making any fucking sense and why would Benny want to sleep with someone he tried to kill?!"

[untold socket]

It keeps the myth intact at least, lmao

[solid moss]

That is even assuming benny dead
But to be fair
EH BENNY DEAD

Who the heck make benny stay alive

[untold socket]

idk if there is a way to keep him alive is there?

I think he dies no matter what.

[solid moss]

Techinally yes
By doing the NCR ending or helping break him out in legion tent

[frosty tapir]

benny is certainly dead, if not cause of the direction the game puts you with dealing with benny then because mathew perry sadly passed and then doing anything with the benny character becomes sensitive

[solid moss]

However, there cut content where after you help him escpae, benny tried to kill you anyways

[untold socket]

Ah true but he gives you everything - he basically nopes out and disappears forever. Lol

[untold socket]

This too.

[solid moss]

Its cut content but it does signal that creators intended you would have kill benny regardless if you try to save him
Hence why doing the NCR ending is the only way he is alive

[nimble bramble]

She's like 262 when she died, so canonically she's only 42 when the bombs dropped
Physically she's in her 50s in 2297

[frosty tapir]

thinking of the years of the fallout timeline what if the tv show wraps up the regional faction conflicts then fallout 5 just timeskips to get past having to deal with that aftermath

similar to the timeskips between early fallout games for the same reason

it does feel like the direction of the fallout tv show is hyping up to something big

[untold socket]

That's probably what's gonna happen. Or at least I assume so.

I know people don't like it, but the TV Show is definitely setting up for Fallout 5 - so whatever the TV show presents, is gonna be canon cause the next game is gonna be built off of it.

So you can't get around ignoring what they canonize.

[nimble bramble]

If courier only delivered the chip and didn't do anything else...
There's an extremely small chance that Elijah is still alive

[lament lichen]

Maybe at least the Enclave can be definitively eliminated during the show?

[frosty tapir]

yeah and it seems theyre working towards something very conclusive since lots of big things are happening in the fallout universe from the tv show: vault tec getting involved, the bos civil war, ncr "collapsing" etc - seems like its all coming to an end

[untold socket]

He would've killed himself in the Sierra Madre.

[lament lichen]

The finale of sorts for the ‘West Coast saga’, if you will?

[nimble bramble]

The Enclave is basically Bethesda's Khans

[frosty tapir]

perhaps, it would set up fallout 5 well with a blank slate

[untold socket]

The only reason the Sierra Madre even occurs is because of the courier. Elijah can't do anything without the Courier.

[nimble bramble]

Or still trapped inside the casino?

[frosty tapir]

todds acc said he didnt expect the tv show to be as big as it was, so now he is taking it much more seriously

[untold socket]

That's what i mean, he would've killed himself. He trapped himself there, cause the only way he can get out or even proceed is with the Courier.

So his fate remains the same regardless.

[jolly dust]

I think a LOT has shifted with fallout & Bethesda because of the success of S1 of the show

[frosty tapir]

i agree

[untold socket]

Yeah when he said this? I knew they started making moves for it to be big time canon for games.

[untold socket]

Case in point : 76

[jolly dust]

I think originally the show wanted to be a cool spin off but not commenting directly on canon or things like that for the games. Which makes sense, generally, for most any franchise to do it that way

[frosty tapir]

that said if todd didnt expect the tv show to be big i think its crazy hed greenlight shady sands nuking if the show flopped lol

[untold socket]

I was about to say this - when you look at any franchise, this is how they do it. This is literally what the Mass Effect show is doing - a spin-off, irrelvant of Shepard in any fashion, or the companions.

[nimble bramble]

Killing himself? Unlikely
But yeah, Beth can just pretend he doesn't exist since there's basically 0 chance for us to revisit Sierra Madre in another game

[jolly dust]

But really quickly the show got big, fans got hyped, etc. they pushed forward with S2 and while obviously a lot tied to endings of NV will be directly impacted, I still think they’re really avoiding making definitive statements on things while they can. Like, we won’t see the courier mentioned too specifically because they definitely don’t want to comment on the ‘player character’

[frosty tapir]

theres a ME show? is it set before the reaper invasion or have they just gone to another galaxy again?

[untold socket]

I meant he'd inadvertantly kill himself because he wouldn't be able to survive in the casino in his old age. He's quite literally trapped. Lol

I don't mean he literally suck starts a pistol or something.

[jolly dust]

But that’s all shifted now. Now they’re trying to directly integrate FO5 with the show and build those together. I think the way that’s dealt with will be very very different. As of now, the show doesn’t want to discount the player experience as much as possible (while still telling an exciting story.
S3 though, and certainly FO5, I think won’t follow that same idea anymore. They’re trying to directly integrate moving forward, which I honestly think is pretty exciting for the future of the franchise

[frosty tapir]

im just hoping they use the tv show as a wrap up of the current fallout universe so that fallout 5 can be a fresh slate where we get something new

[nimble bramble]

He's too resourceful to actually die in the casino IMO
The vault? Maybe

[untold socket]

He's trapped in the Casino? He can't get out.

[lament lichen]

Though it does feel a bit annoying to have your efforts in NV feel kinda for nothing. Like, what exactly did the Courier achieve regardless of the ending?

[untold socket]

Elijah cannot leave the Sierra Madre without you.

He literally says, "I had no way out - until I detected your pip-boy."

[nimble bramble]

There's plenty of food inside the casino

[untold socket]

Yeah but that's irrelvant, he can't leave. He's stuck.

Food or not, he lives and dies there, he can't get out.

[nimble bramble]

He's trapped, doesn't mean he's dead

Dog still obeys his order

[untold socket]

But he WILL die. Which is why I'm saying it's irrelvant. He can't change his fate - him living is contingent on the Courier helping him specifically.

[untold socket]

He can't use Dog from inside the Casino.

[nimble bramble]

It's been almost 20 years? Ok maybe

[nimble bramble]

He basically controlled everyone thru radio

[untold socket]

No that was when he was OUTSIDE. When you arrive, he is INSIDE. He cannot contact anyone until your pipboy is brought into the picture.

He is trapped in the Casino, he couldn't contact Dog, or use the radios.

It's only until your pipboy can he contact again, he says this in the dialogue.

[nimble bramble]

Let me try to remember...

[untold socket]

Even Dog reaffirms this.

[nimble bramble]

We got gassed and Dog put the collar on our neck, right?

[untold socket]

Elijah literally says this -

"Hiding? Hardly. Trapped. You think you were the first one to open the casino doors? No I did, with other hands, other bodies. After that the casino wouldn't let go. Once I was locked inside, no way out, until your pip-boy signal came to life in the villa. Then things changed, and here you are."

He could not get out or use Dog.

[nimble bramble]

That's the thing tho...

[untold socket]

That's kind of the fleeting point, he didn't really achieve anything. The only ending that has some kind of reward is - House, maybe? You can prance around and view it as like, "I helped humanity progress." Or in the case of Independence, "I'm the new Proprietor of Vegas, now." But nothing else.

[nimble bramble]

If you refuse to cooperate during your 1st convo with Elijah, he will just kill you despite the fact that he's already trapped in the casino
Like he probably thinks that he'll just get another scavenger to help him out eventually

[untold socket]

Because of the Pipboy.

But it's implied that it doesn't work because the Courier is the Key.

Otherwise other people would've done it by now, and the other people he 'brings' go insane. You can find their notes all over.

The entire DLC hinges on the Courier being there. It's like the perfect storm of events to occur.

[nimble bramble]

Ok, maybe he's just so insane that he'll literally kill his only hope after an argument

[untold socket]

At that point, yes, he's riddled with madness - evident by his audio log given to Veronica after you complete the DLC.

[terse sable]

WELL LOOK WHO IT IS

[frosty tapir]

oh wow gave them the shoulder plating as well

[untold socket]

Missing my riot decals. 😡
Immediate -1/100

Jokes aside - it makes me wonder how the NCR acquired the Riot armor from the Divide if they claimed it was too fucked to explore.

[terse sable]

probably already had it

Riot gear from the divide and the veteran armor are basically the same thing

[untold socket]

I dunno about that, will be something I'll have to look into.

[terse sable]

the bodies in the divide that have the advanced and elite set are named NCR as well

[frank ingot]

so home alone kid is maxson or mojave BoS general?

i hope they cast maxson better if the latter lol

[untold socket]

Legion.

[terse sable]

He’s legion

[frank ingot]

oh NO

[untold socket]

He's one of the Brothers vying for power, the Legion is going through a civil war, too.
More of a Romulus / Remus story telling plot.

[terse sable]

There’s brothers??

[frank ingot]

i envisioned gigachad legate

[untold socket]

Yes.

[terse sable]

i havent watched the first episode yet lol

[untold socket]

Lol

[untold socket]

He could be the legate, I'm sure one of the Brothers is the new Legate.

[terse sable]

So is the guy dressed up as Lanius ACTUALLY Lanius

or is he some new guy

[frosty tapir]

new guy

i highly doubt its the same lanius

[frank ingot]

i want to see the legion evolve. maybe they could assimilate ncr and form a senate and become da real romans

[terse sable]

yeah that’s what I think

[untold socket]

It is a new guy

[frank ingot]

legate isnt the smae as lanius

its a title

[terse sable]

No there is absolutely a guy who was Lanius

[untold socket]

I'm pretty sure they're going off of Ulysses's dialogue of him talking about the Legate being more of a symbol. Than a person. Ulysses specifically states that people don't care much about who he is under the helmet - but because of what he is, and what he represents it's important.

It's the same here. Who the Legate is, doesn't matter, what matters is what he means TO and FOR the Legion.

[frosty tapir]

for this though ulysses was specifically talking about lanius: its why everyone has a conflicting backstory for him

its also why i dont want them to touch lanius in the tv show

[frank ingot]

god i hated and still hate lonesome road

[terse sable]

So the 6’11” guy is just somebody they found

[untold socket]

True, but he's emphasising that it doesn't matter. If people don't know who he is under the mask, it's what he represents as a symbol.

[terse sable]

The SIX FOOT ELEVEN HUMAN BEING

[untold socket]

No, there is no 6'11 guy - the guy in the show is a short king.

[terse sable]

I’m not arguing that this guy is Lanius

i’m arguing that “Legate Lanius” isn’t a title

[untold socket]

You're half right, Lanius isn't a title, Legate is.

[frosty tapir]

nono legate is a title lanius is jsut the second legate

[terse sable]

There isn’t multiple people being Lanius before the second battle of Hoover Dam

[frosty tapir]

im hoping the tv show legate is just a third guy and not lanius

[untold socket]

Ulysses eludes to it.

[untold socket]

It probably is.

[terse sable]

He’s speculating during the entirety of lonesome road

[frosty tapir]

yes and its why i love lanius he has this mythicalness surrounding him

[terse sable]

He estimated the Tunnelers would’ve invaded the Mojave by now

[untold socket]

Yes but what he's saying is true. Lol

[frosty tapir]

no-one knows who he really is cause everyone has a seperate story that will contradict with everyone else's story of him

[untold socket]

No one has seen Lanius without his armor.

Not even Caesar.

[terse sable]

??

What

Ulysses is speculating that Lanius is multiple people. He doesn’t know for sure

[untold socket]

I misspoke, Caesar hasn't seen him without his armor, after he found him.
Ulysses isn't saying Lanius is multiple people, he's just saying they don't know the identity. Which is true -

[terse sable]

I believe the conflicting backstories for Lanius from high ranking members is intentional. One single man became Lanius and his story is kept intentionally vague to create fear

[untold socket]

But still it doesn't change the fact that the point behind Legate Lanius is the mysticism, and myth.
Being the Legate is a symbol for the Legion - That's his whole point.

[terse sable]

Yes

[untold socket]

Whether it is multiple people, or isn't, being the Legate is rallies them. Even after you kill Caesar the Legion still rallied behind them because that's their Legate.

What I'm saying is the show is building off of that concept and taking it further. With a new Legate being appointed.

[frosty tapir]

a short legate is kind of funny given the last one was nearly 7 foot tall

[terse sable]

I’m not saying that Lanius isn’t a symbol

[untold socket]

I love it though. Lol

Imagine being a big ass centurion and being forced to kneel for someone half your height

[untold socket]

I do also wonder if the Frumentarii played a part in this.

[sonic sparrow]

Hey guys havent been active here yet but what seems to be the most popular theory here about the 2nd House, i saw some people guess its the brother, but mine was a body double

[untold socket]

You would be correct. It is a body double.

[carmine trellis]

Then why doesn't he look similar enough that the people at the bar didn't mistake him?

Looks too different

[untold socket]

Because they've never seen the real house in person, most likely. He's probably always used the body double.

Robert House is based off of Howard Hughes who did the same thing IRL.
It's not that deep.

Plus it would be super bad writing if they used Anthony cause it makes no sense based on their relationship.

[carmine trellis]

But they literally just watched the other one on TV

[untold socket]

That doesn't change anything I said. Lol they probably didn't notice. People are not as smart as we give them credit for. Especially because they were emotionally riled and were getting more upset by what he was saying.

[carmine trellis]

Unless one of them is tricking the other

[untold socket]

No, that's not their relationship dynamic.

[carmine trellis]

But the 2 legit don't look nor talk similar, is the thing

Facially, at least

[carmine trellis]

Not in the long term but maybe this is a brief event

[untold socket]

Robert and Anthony hate each other beyond belief. Neither of them will work together in any circumstances. Anthony is severely mentally ill for starters and barely can handle being in public. He lives in constant paranoia and has schizophrenia. There is zero chance he can be a body double for his brother who he thinks is out to kill him 24/7 and lives in fear of it.

[carmine trellis]

Well I didn't say he is a body double

Usually the theory is it's either a double or the brother

[untold socket]

Even then, they will never work together.

Especially because at the point in the story, it looks like House bought out H&H already - so Anthony would be losing his mind.

[carmine trellis]

Couldn't that tie into his dialogue here?

About "ingratitude" or something

[untold socket]

No, because Robert owns H&H. The dialogue was his way of saying , "I am inevitable." To the unionists, he was saying, "You're complaining about a rich guy but you're using his tools for your construction work. Ironic."

[carmine trellis]

Or was that just surface level referring to the workers?

[untold socket]

Surface level to the workers. He was taunting them.

[carmine trellis]

Bro really said "and yet you participate in society" lol

[untold socket]

He was in a way saying, the House always wins. Because they can hate him - but it doesn't change the fact they put money in his pocket.

[carmine trellis]

I thought maybe that was some kind of foreshadowing. Either way, maybe at this point Anthony assumes that if he pretends to be Robert's friend then he won't go after him

Anyway, which do you think the double is?

The more subtle one seems closer to House in game

[untold socket]

The double is confirmed to be the one on the TV.

Justin Theroux, the actor in the bar - is Robert House.

[untold socket]

Nah, I could understand this line of thinking if he wasn't mentally ill. Anthony is unhinged. Evident by the fact he pretty much kills himself and all the H&H workers in the building when he finally snaps.

In FNV cut content, there was supposed to be a quest or another way to take down House by using Anthony's information, and info he gathered on the Lucky 38 to break in sabotage it.

[carmine trellis]

If he's mentally ill then isn't it understandable for him to act erratically?

Unless it's not that kind of mental illness

[untold socket]

It's not that kind of mental illness. It's very specific and his behaviors are described in a very specific way, like he walks around with a hat to make sure people don't steal his thoughts or ideas - and gets violent if people look at him wrong, and he accuses them of stealing his ideas if they look at him for too long.

Anthony is a character, for sure.

[shrewd berry]

it is not Anthony, its a body double on the tv

[frosty tapir]

Yeah going off by interviews of the house actor its pretty much confirmed its just a body double

[sonic sparrow]

Also would you believe it if you randomly saw a guy with the same trim as thw worlds richest man in your local small time bar?

I meant, would you really think its him, especially you just saw who you believed to be the real guy on TV, so the obviozs facial differences are obvious

[carmine trellis]

Yeah?

How expensive can a haircut be

[carmine trellis]

Which is exactly why I don't think it's a body double, or not convincing one at least

[frosty tapir]

Like i said tho in interviews the actor has told us both guys are playing robert house

[sonic sparrow]

Maybe i worded it wrong. Even if you saw a 1:1 lookalike of tve worlds richest man in your small time bar, simply because of the location you would think, nah no way its him, especially considering the protests where it would be dangerous for someone like him to be in a place like that, especially by himself completely

Plus the stache and hair combo seems to have been popular for prewar businessmen, we see it on a Francis Sinclair painting in fnv, and its also not as something unique where if you saw someone else with the same trim, youd think yeah this is THE mr house

[daring mason]

Imagine if at the end all the "cooper, kill house plis?"
Ends up like
"Hello cooper, i know You are here to kill me, but what You don't know is the woman asked You to do it is a egomaniac psicotic bitch"

I sold My self
1000% sure moldaver just did all those things in pitty for her work, not to save or help the world

[daring mason]

After seeing the tv show
I can Say the body double looks more like Mr house than the real one

[daring mason]

Yall think maybe the "sinclair" who appeared in S1 is actually just a body double?

[sonic sparrow]

I saw people theorize mpre that it mightve been a Sinclair Sr, pr that in NV, he just used an old photo for the painting

[carmine trellis]

Wouldn't at least one of them go like "you sure look similar"? if he did, but even to me he doesn't.

Could he really not afford to search for someone who looks closer?

Plastic surgery, maybe?

[carmine trellis]

If anything that's an argument against him being a double for House specifically, think about it: you literally said they were popular for businessmen in general

So why House specifically? Could be any other one (so my confusion goes from why they didn't ask to why this would be one of his doubles, who is supposed to be convinced by this?)

"nah sorry, I'm actually the Sinclair body double, easy mistake"

[daring mason]

Wdym
Sinclair actually being a old man or just being like a father of the actual sinclair?¿

[daring mason]

Yeah but im not gonna lie
The "body double" looks more like the house in new Vegas than the actual one

[copper elbow]

house supposedly plugged himself into his little coffin a while before the bombs

[carmine trellis]

He certainly behaves more like him

Unless that's just his "mask" that he also puts in NV

To appear professional, unless you refuse to give him the chip

[carmine trellis]

The problem is that both images are public

As in, both walk around in public

During the flashback timeline, as of now. So that's impossible

Coop was literally just listening in on that meeting where the other House was present

[lament lichen]

Could House know that Coop bugged the meeting?

[solid moss]

House is the person to expect all outcomes regardless of how minor it is

I am sure he is aware someone could in theory bug the place

[carmine trellis]

Except for the courier needing to only hack one console to kill him

[solid moss]

No
That one house took a gamble with the courier

I believe house did not want to use the courier due to unprdictable he can in theory be

[carmine trellis]

Couldn't he just have more securitrons inside at least?

They can't even enter after you

[solid moss]

Hmm
Honestly maybe an oversight
But to be fair
Its more dramatic if there wasnt

[pale merlin]

I’m a lil annoyed at them for moving dinky and the adding a pool

It kinda makes no sense for boone

[terse sable]

I mean who else would he have used

if he didn’t get somebody to do his work then his plan would’ve failed

he needs to get the chip back

[solid moss]

Benny if he didn't betray house

[terse sable]

and he needs to USE the chip at the fort

[terse sable]

benny gets captured by legion. plan dies right there

Courier is the only person who would be let into the bunker by Caesar

[frosty tapir]

House does not expect all outcomes one of the core elements of his character is thst yes hes very smart but his judgement is actually quite poor

And thats a lot of the time because hes too arrogant

[solid moss]

True but technically without the courier, Benny was the best choice he got

[solid moss]

He expects a lot of outcomes but clearly doesn't know everything and that usually hurts him a lot

[frosty tapir]

Yeah thats a fair way of putting it

[terse sable]

It’s also the fact that he’s secluded himself so much that he needs other people to do important things

If he had the Strip actually working with him, they could probably get somebody into the Fort

but it’s more just the casinos tolerating House

and they don’t really even like him that much

[solid moss]

That too
He has extreme lack of info

It's clear that he using specifically securtrons to scout things for him, not people
It's not that it's bad but it clear that while he gets a lot of useful info
He doesn't know what exactly happening

And i am sure house knows that the problem but cant exactly solve it because well
How the heck is he gonna solve it?

200 years has passed
There is no one he can trust in the wasteland

He cant get people to trust him because well
He not exactly going out of his way talking to them physically when he cant even do it
And lets not even pretend that secutrons are gonna make a nice first impressions
They probably scare the heck out of the people

And i know
He can always hire people but that a double edge sword because sure, he could techinally offer them a lot of rewards, but those very same people would get a lot of info on house that a lot of people are willing to pay for

The best example is when you bug house and it fails
Its pretty clear that he suspect the courier would get paid for that job and made sure to defend his stuff
Afterall, he stated it as much when they say people think they are important as they dont think they are important because they know they are
He knows the courier is the most important person right now and the only one who can access lucky 38, the offers would be great from all factions who are against him

[terse sable]

He can’t really do much when Courier tries to do that. Would he just cut off the ONE guy who has been shown to be competent enough to do his work

[solid moss]

Yeah
That why the courier was his best hope
He literally knows every other option is worse than taking a gamble with the courier

[frosty tapir]

caesar definitely has the worst judgement though, you can do actively everything to hurt the legion prior to meeting him and he will still invite you to join him

[pale merlin]

Yea

[pale merlin]

No it’s not dumb he wants someone with a set of skills such as the couriers he doesn’t think the couriers can kill him

[frosty tapir]

tbf house doesnt really have an alternative to the courier, he literally doesnt have a way to get to the fort bunker even when benny was working with him

[frosty tapir]

that too but even on the macro sense, had he won vegas his plan to invade the ncr after that is still insane

[solid moss]

Its also why house, even if you mess up a shit ton, he can just let it slide

With the only exception of complete annalation of the BoS

[pale merlin]

Too be fair he also has a tumor in his head

[frosty tapir]

true lol

[solid moss]

Well by that point when you get forgiven, you're probably entered the lucky 38

So caesar basically looked at it and thought
I hate this guy but this guy is techinally the best option to get rid of house...

[frosty tapir]

i always thought people saying the BOS house alliance shouldnt have been cut must have been a bit confused - the two factions are complete opposites

[solid moss]

To be fair
I dont blame house for literally wanting to wipe them out
They will actively be annoying and he probably did some research from what info gather and could tell these guys have been around for a long time

[frosty tapir]

i do think his speech on the bos might be one of my favourite bits of dialogue in the whole game

[solid moss]

and knew their policies
You cant exactly remove the BoS cultist behaviour

Even when somehow making an alliance
He made it very clear to the courier, if they become a problem, he better expect them to wipe them out

The only he reason he goes along with it is because A, he cant be bothered arguing with it, And B has to basically allow the courier do a lot of things due to them being too important

well the exception of blowing up his vault but to be fair
That one has more damage than the other ones because that one actively ruins him
The other faction is more of there to aid the NCR like the boomers or just not wanting to deal with it in the futrue like the BoS and gommorah

Blowing up the vault?
Permeant damage
The other questlines?
You can mess up as much as you want (beside BoS since that one is just only one option) and house either just goes along with it or just take a different approach into the problem

[lament lichen]

And honestly in hindsight, House and Moore were 100% right about the Brotherhood and to not bother playing nicey-nice with them.

[lusty fiber]

You can convince the NCR and brotherhood to make an alliance, which is crazier because they have been engaged in war for 30 years

[frosty tapir]

yeah but i can at least understand that since the bos and ncr have been allies before and this is only one small chapter / with house theyre straight up gonna conflict with one another

[lusty fiber]

It’s far fetched to convince house or Caesar that the brotherhood are worth keeping but even more far fetched convincing the NCR so I think it would’ve been fine to keep both

[copper elbow]

maybe not complete opposites but yeah house and brotherhood would not tolerate eachother

[lusty fiber]

Yeah actually with house it wouldn’t work, Caesar it might barely

House is all about technology

[hallow flint]

He would’ve had a point if he didn’t work on the game that made them evil.

I wonder what he’s gonna say about the Mojave chapter when they show up? Is he gonna claim they would never rob and murder innocent people?

@frosty tapir listen to the soundtrack

[solid moss]

Just a Chad Arthur maxson son

No it's not confirmed if it his son
Yes I am the only one who says it his son
And I will die in this hill until its confirm that it's his son

[daring mason]

Is just me or norm is more like a Inteligence/speech based build?

[pale merlin]

This is Nate

[daring mason]

Nah, nate is more like Adrien brody

[solid moss]

You're all wrong
It's arthur maxson son

[pale merlin]

Maybe he just lost his fucking mind

Okay buddy

[daring mason]

How he fcking could be

[daring mason]

Maxson is like what on F4

[solid moss]

The coat

[daring mason]

By that logic he could just be colonel autumn

[solid moss]

Touche

[hallow flint]

Nathaniel Xander Harkness

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1220185229302693958/1450946109135523910/2E892223-4565-469C-98C0-13804501C63E.jpg?ex=6948ff9d&is=6947ae1d&hm=30be64ab0e7ecdc4f6604ae00f28e08a500b1f1e3bbb6866289e4d6b9f99b4b6&

[pale merlin]

Racist?

[solid moss]

He is brotherhood of steel

What kind BoS isnt racist toward mutants?

[pale merlin]

True

I mean I am

[frosty tapir]

soundtrack?

[shrewd berry]

"oh what kinda character do you play"
oh a racist and charming comedic character

[solid moss]

Your average BoS character

I love how they specifically mention the racist point XD

Like mate, he's brotherhood of steel
He already racist XD

Goodluck finding a single BoS who grew up in the BoS who aint racist

[hallow flint]

https://youtu.be/zdRd1-Ixx7k?si=ynmLJC37TNoqg8A3

[floral siren]

ep 2 tonight right?

[upbeat pumice]

24th
Not yet :[

[untold socket]

Yeah by why would his name be Xander Harkness and not Xander Maxson? 🤔

[untold socket]

You're missing the point specifically - No one has seen house in person, they quite literally would not know.
To them it's just a rich man in the bar who they've never seen before.
You're running off of the assumption, "Oh people have seen Robert before, so they must know what he looks like - therefore they would recognize that his body double looks different." They have always seen the body double and now Robert.
The reason why House has a body double is because he becomes a recluse and refuses to leave the Lucky 38 much. He is based off of and inspired by Howard Hughes IRL who did the EXACT same thing with several well known actors and people.

[untold socket]

Probably, House already know Coop is there to kill him. House is a number cruncher and runs calculations and predicts outcomes, and just has a wealth of knowledge all the time. He prides himself off of this - so he would probably know.

[untold socket]

Yeah, this is true - but remember he always has contingencies if his plans don't work out. He's rarely, if ever caught flat footed unless the once in a blue moon his gamble doesn't pay off.

[untold socket]

People keep forgetting that the Alliance was specifically to stop Caesar more than anything.
As most of the Alliances were. It wasn't to develop a fostering relationship - the only one that actually reveled on that was House & NCR because it involved House being integrated into NCR government.

[solid moss]

Yes but this case was different...

House needs the platnium chip but cant trust anyone to do the job

[lusty fiber]

The NCR-Brotherhood one?

[untold socket]

Right, but what I'm saying is this situation is one of the few that happens. The only other one that comes to mind immediately is the Courier turning on him.

[untold socket]

ALL Alliances. The only Alliance that has a long lasting effect that doesn't revert to normal afterwards is the NCR-House Alliance, and Legion-Khan Alliance.
Every Alliance you make is for the purpose of Hoover Dam regardless of whose Faction you are on. You express this during negotiations, it's to stop the control of Hoover Dam. You're convincing them - the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

There are some exceptions to this, like Caesar destroying the Brotherhood, or House destroying them. But most of the Alliances have to do with Hoover Dam specifically.

[lusty fiber]

Yeah ur right

And Caesar states that the brotherhood would be a future problem he would have to deal with

[untold socket]

Exactly. Majority of these Alliances are not long term - like the Enclave Remnants? Zero chance they stay involved. The boomers? They go back to their ways. They trade and stuff, but they don't become part of the Legion, or become NCR Citizens. White Gloves? They exist. Omertas? They just exist. It's just back to normal.

The Courier just manages to sit them down and convince them that in the moment, they should form an alliance and cease hostilities for the sake of Hoover Dam - and because of stability after the fact.

Even in the cut content ending for House & NCR, House I believe works his way up to becoming President ANYWAY and still takes over Vegas. So his plan works regardless, it just takes longer under NCR Citizenship.

[carmine trellis]

No, you're missing my point, which is that they literally just now saw the other one on TV

And they look significantly different

[untold socket]

Yes, they look different - so why would the recognize Robert House in the bar if they've never seen the one in the bar in public?

[carmine trellis]

Then doesn't that defeat the purpose of a body double?

[untold socket]

No.

[copper elbow]

I assumed the guy in that bar scene was hank ngl

[carmine trellis]

Anyone who sees both can immediately tell

[untold socket]

No, you're assuming they know what he looks like.
They do not know what Robert House looks like.

They assume the one on TV is Robert.

[copper elbow]

they were literally just watching a video of house and did not recognize the guy in the bar

[untold socket]

Exactly.

[copper elbow]

they're probably going to explain it later but it seems odd for house to handle that on the ground, I also doubt house would be self aware enough to realize how much he puffs his own ego

[lament lichen]

Which is a fair assumption that most anyone would make. Who exactly would expect the 2077 equivalent of Bill Gates chilling in a no-name bar somewhere while his body double works the press?

[untold socket]

So it's obvious, they didn't tell immediately, lol
The purpose of his body double is for Robert to do what he pleases, whilst keeping up the APPEARANCE and gathering information.

He still gets information from the Vault Tec meeting without being there AND he gets to focus on other stuff. This is what Howard Hughes did IRL when he started becoming a recluse.

[carmine trellis]

Then what. Is the point. Of a body double.

[untold socket]

They could not recognize Howard Hughes when they found him, they had to ID his body, he unironically looked like the decrepid version of House we see in the Lucky 38.

[carmine trellis]

They are supposed to look similar

"guys look, it's Castro but he looks completely different, I'm sure it's still him though!"

Unlike here

[untold socket]

I just explained it. He gets to do as he pleases. No, body doubles do not look similar. You're thinking of a clone, that's not the same situation, here.

A body double allows a person to be in two places at once. Which is what House is doing. The Body double probably handles all PHYSICAL appearances of Robert required. Meetings, face to face talks, appearances on TV, Radios etc etc.

[untold socket]

This is also the result of surgery.

[carmine trellis]

Then have one here! House sure can afford it, can't he?

[untold socket]

Robert then while the body double does one thing, House gets to do whatever else he wants. It's that simple.

[untold socket]

But he doesn't need to, because in Howard Hughes case, PEOPLE HAVE SEEN HIM ALREADY.

BEFORE the body double.

[carmine trellis]

Then why not just have middle managers?

[copper elbow]

this is what I was thinking

[carmine trellis]

Oh, so only the second is his public image

[copper elbow]

scyophantic little mini-house handling the icky stuff on the ground

[carmine trellis]

OK, that makes more sense

[untold socket]

YES, evident by him MEETING COOPER with an ACTUAL appearance and NOT his body double.

[carmine trellis]

I was thinking it was supposed to be like Castro who used it against assassination attempts, but himself still appeared in public

[untold socket]

We see Coop meet the Body double FIRST, and then is taken upstairs to the Lucky 38.

[copper elbow]

house has been around and pretty famous for decades tbf

for however far ahead he can plan doing it from day 1 seems optimistic

[untold socket]

It's probably this, too. It's not just one single reason for the body double, it's a multitude.

It's for public appearances, probably assassination attempts. He DOES have enemies, this is known. It's also just episode one, we might learn more or might not - it just depends, it's genuinely not that deep. The simplest answer is he just has one available to roam freely without the constraints of actually physically dealing with people on a consistent basis.

When he believes he can better use his time for helping humanity.

[carmine trellis]

Ok wait, so if Mr. House has mind control tech, why don't we see it in New Vegas?

[untold socket]

Probably because he abandoned it.

[carmine trellis]

Why?

[untold socket]

Or it was never completed.

We don't know. It's still episode one.

Like we can assume he probably didn't progress far enough, or he handed it off to Vault tec, or the bombs fell before work was completed - it could be anything. We're still gonna learn about it.

[lament lichen]

And honestly, maybe that mind control stuff was just deemed not worth it by House?

[untold socket]

Uh probably? It's possible.

[thorny steppe]

lore explination : obsidian didnt wanna and bethesda wanted the game out in 2010 not 2016

[untold socket]

Lmao

[untold socket]

If House does change his mind, it makes me wonder what then gives Hank the idea he wants it completed - and why House would BEG him for help?

But that's assuming that it is Mr House he's talking to.

[lament lichen]

House and begging shouldn't even be in the same dimension for starters; guy is many things, but he hardly is the type to prostrate himself.

And if Hank is a double agent for House, surely all it'd take is for someone to.... enlighten Not-At-Home who exactly is responsible for wrecking his primary income source and fouling up his plans.

[untold socket]

This, right here - is why I don't know if it's Mr House he's speaking to, or if it could be Hank overplaying his hand. I'm not sure.
But then Coop also says, "The Man owns Half of Vegas."
Okay then is the implication that someone else owns the other half??? Or then I wonder if that line of thinking is too deep, lol

[lament lichen]

I mean, who else could it be he's talking to, considering Hank mentioned how Vegas is this individual's old stomping grounds.

[untold socket]

I get what you mean, the verbage and wordplay is so ambiguous, but I suppose that's the intention. lol

[lament lichen]

Could be a red herring, but there's not many suspects that we could reasonably know of at the moment.

[untold socket]

Yeah, it could also be too early - if we get more details next episode, we might know - but I'm not suspecting more development on it, until at least episode 3 or 4. Since the next two episodes seem to be BoS, NCR, and Legion focused.

[daring mason]

-indian actor
-major on a faction on tech
What does bethesta and Amazon mean with this?

[untold socket]

Literally nothing?

[daring mason]

Is a joke, dumbass

[untold socket]

A really bad one, lol

[daring mason]

Sure

[arctic radish]

So, is it confirmed House is alive? Feels like they're setting it up for him to be.
Wonder if the Courier gets any mention at all

[frosty tapir]

Wait the character bio for one of the bos characters is that hes straight up racist? 😭

[arctic radish]

I hate journalists so much man

[frosty tapir]

I did think they were gonna play more with the bos xenophobia but thats pretty direct

[arctic radish]

The BoS are xenophobic to the extreme but somehow those journalists take their anti mutant stance as racism

Racism is prejudice against human beings for their skin color, I think that's pretty different than not liking ghouls

Most articles are written with AI anyhow, so I won't rant too much

[untold socket]

Courier probably won't get mentioned, no.

[frosty tapir]

I mean its basically the same thing

[untold socket]

The Brotherhood do not like mutants, much either, so I mean. At least the East values all humans and isn't isolationist, where the West doesn't care for outsiders, might kill them - but both pretty much can't stand mutants.

[frosty tapir]

Yeye I know i just think its funny the character bio just straight up says hes a racist

Like he prob is but I just wasn't expecting that to be the direction the writers would take so directly

[untold socket]

Yeah, that's fair lol

[hallow flint]

It’s what a reviewer describes the character

That’s not the official character bio

[arctic radish]

The reviewer in question: ChatGPT

[untold socket]

probably

[jolly dust]

what review / reviewer is everyone talking about?

[untold socket]

There's an article claiming that Xander's character is racist. Which Xander Harkness is the BoS member we see arrive in the vertibird.

i don't have the article on hand to post atm

[jolly dust]

....it can't be a particularly big journalist or their SEO is garbage because I can't find it at all lol

[untold socket]

nah i don't think it was someone big

there was a picture or link posted earlier? it might've gotten delete

[jolly dust]

ah just a screenshot earlier, I found it, thanks

how do y'all even find these things lmao

100% not AI, just some 'freelance' journalist in the UK lol

I mean he called Walton Goggins "Walter Goggins" so like...I wouldn't exactly trust what he says to begin with LOL

[untold socket]

mostly just reading, or at the very least - my google pings me for everything Fallout or ES related

[jolly dust]

Ah, true dedication, that

I only have google pinging me for myself

For all we know maybe Xander is actually just super racist

[untold socket]

He probably is - you're right, genuinely, we won't know until we actively see him interact, and see what he is.

[jolly dust]

as much as that would actually be kind of funny, I'm pretty sure it's not that. I think the review was just a poorly researched review by a mediocre writer who confused racism with like....speciesism or xenophobia, I'm honestly not 100% sure of the correct term

In trying to find that article though, I did find a different article by a DE reviewer, and both this UK and DE guy specified that they got 6 of the 8 episodes provided to them for review

[untold socket]

Xenophobia or Speciesism in this case might be more correct -

[jolly dust]

I guess we need a proper new word for hatred towards something that used to be your same species but now because you've changed to be something new, you hate them lol

[untold socket]

I would agree lol

[lament lichen]

Specism?

[arctic radish]

Ghouls aren't really non-human though. They're horribly mutated humans, but they are still human beings. At least under most human ethical traditions they would still have the same dignity and moral responsibility as one. Feral ghouls are a different story. They aren't people, but that's because biologically speaking, they are basically corpses

[frosty tapir]

same as the non violent super mutants theyre still people deserving of being treated fairly

[arctic radish]

I think the best word would be xenophobia, they are "foreign" but at least still somewhat human

[untold socket]

Yeah this was sort of my mindset.

But it gives me warhammer vibes so. lol

[frosty tapir]

i think the people that try to argue that the ghouls and supermutants are somehow less human or are "abominations" have just fallen for the bos propoganda

[untold socket]

Yeah, but we also have to consider that there are some ghouls who have chosen to take up that stereotype, too. To push that agenda, as well.

[frosty tapir]

i agree same with super mutants but then like... same with normal humans

all 3 have violent groups

[untold socket]

Yeah, it's why I give the NCR credit for integrating mutants into the society, the one thing they've done right.

Ehh, by extension House has too I guess by letting Meansonofa live in Freeside but, idk - i dunno if he even has control or authority over Freeside much.

[arctic radish]

He does not, that's the whole idea of Freeside. It's the people who left rather than work for his casinos

[untold socket]

Yeah so that it would go back to it just being the NCR who employees mutants.

Enclave wouldn't count either since it's forced.

NCR would be the only one treating them as citizens.

[frosty tapir]

to some degree. the NCR isnt perfect at enforcing that equality (like with the mercenaries employed by the NCR to harass jacobstown)

but to give credit theyre doing more than anyone else

[untold socket]

were they employed by NCR specifically to harass them, or were they just NCR mercenaries who happened to be harassing the mutants? cause that would be a big difference.

Also i think there's an option to defuse it by using your own NCR rep there, which makes me think the NCR probably didn't know what was going on.(I could be wrong tho)

[untold socket]

Yeah, way more than anyone else. The good chunk of veteran rangers who are all ghouls, comes to mind.

[frosty tapir]

oh acc ive just googled this apparently it wasnt the NCR but one senator in the NCR that pays the mercs

in that case yeah the NCR does do a decent job tbf

[frosty tapir]

still wish we got that cut super mutant ranger

[untold socket]

yeah i was gonna say, idk if it was specific to them more that it happened to be a xenophobic senator that was doing it. Cause i swear you could use your NCR rep to tell them to fuck off.

[untold socket]

Yeah, me too. 😔

[solid moss]

Two days left before we get some answers to our questions

[jolly dust]

Won’t it be three days, Wednesday now, not Tuesday? Either way, I’m very ready haha

[untold socket]

Christmas Eve. 🥳

[jolly dust]

Honestly I’m kind of glad I’m seeing familiar after Christmas and for NY instead of over Christmas…nothing will interrupt me watching ep 2 😂

[untold socket]

SAME. I got nothing planned but fallout on Christmas eve. Lol

[solid moss]

Today monday?

[untold socket]

It's monday now, not when he posted. Lol

So on Wednesday, two days from now.

[solid moss]

Yes
I have so many questions
I have made theories

I have only had 5 minuteso of sleep
Cant stop thinking

[silver belfry]

posted on the amazon website

[untold socket]

WELL WELL WELL. What'd ya know.

[silver belfry]

confirmed House isnt Anthony just a body double

[untold socket]

Yeah, they said it in an interview, this just proves it though.

[shrewd berry]

I this ghoul or ranger

[silver belfry]

u can see a helmet on the table

[untold socket]

It's a ranger, but there are Veteran Ghoul rangers in FNV - there's a whole outpost of them near Cottonwood Cove.

[sonic kettle]

I do love that Buds plan is to freeze a load of VPs (always the most competent people in any business) and just release them to lead a vault with no technical training

[mighty scaffold]

Saw good reasoning why House in the bar isn't Robert but is actually Anthony, dude seems erratic, insane, likes being punched in the face, not really something House does from nv

[sonic kettle]

It's not Anthony

[mighty scaffold]

It probably is

[sonic kettle]

It's 100% not Anthony

[mighty scaffold]

Doubt

Because what, the X-ray calls him Robert house?

Classic case of misdirection and red herrings

[sonic kettle]

No because if it is Anthony House the storyline goes nowhere with no payoff

Anthony's story ends with him locking down H&H Tool factory and killing everyone

Featuring him doing stuff "as house" leads to no story payoff and would be a waste of time for a big name like Justin

[tepid sable]

Which is already kinda happening by this point in the timeline

[sonic kettle]

Exactly he has no connections with House to get the tech, there's no indication he's actually doing well financially, he's paranoid about everyone

It's not Anthony House

[tepid sable]

Based on new vegas house had already by the point bought out anthony

[sonic kettle]

He's either in the process of, or just did a hostile takeover

[tepid sable]

Its likely just a body double

My lore question is by this point is has vault tecs real leadership pulled an enclave and fled already

Though the bud askins training videos also imply no one is in charge

[sonic kettle]

To me it feels like we are months if not a year from 23 Oct in Coops flashbacks

I think it is very possible that Vault Tech CEO/leadership is either in a control vault or has connections to Enclave and is where they are

[shrewd berry]

the actor says he plays a double on a interview

[tepid sable]

Buds training videos seem to imply vault tec maybe automated to a degree at the top