EPISODE 1

[untold socket]

No not the show, in Fallout 4, Proctor confirms that the Elders bent the knee to Maxson -
He says it when you ask him questions about Maxson's leadership.
And to my knowledge the Chapter in the show is a mix of East & West Coast. In the end of season 1 we see the Prydwen dropping off reinforcements, and there's a scene where the Chapter communicated with the Commonwealth for reinforcements.

[frank ingot]

cause whatever the current BoS's allegiance they control the mcguffin. i almost feel its better if its revealed theyre some kind of rogue element, that west/east coast bos come in to take down in tail end of s2/s3

[untold socket]

Which is also how Maxson found out about Quintus's plot, probably is due to the knights and paladins that came - answered to Maxson above Quin, and probably communicated with Maxson behind Quin's back.

[frank ingot]

having all the power centralized to ecbos/wcbos would just break the setting altogether imo

[untold socket]

Yeah, I'm wondering if they'll be classified as rogue like Chicago's was.

That would make the most sense. Like maybe initially they weren't but as actions went against orders, they became rogue.

[frank ingot]

a showdown between the mcguffin powered rogue BoS vs elements of ncr, enclave and ecbos/wcbos would come off as a good reset to the lore

but thats assuming my headcanon is even remotelyaccurate and its not just emil's ECBoS being the masters of the fallout universe by design

[untold socket]

I just would like other factions to be given an equal chance, or at least find more ways to even the field.

[frank ingot]

ncr should still have population of several million scattered across their territories, i wonder why they are pretending they all just ceased to exist when you destroyed one part of their decentralized society

unless they take the road of having it be the final nail i nthe coffin that helps the brahmin barons take over or something

[untold socket]

The only thing I can think of is the NCR retreated or pulled back - the survivors of Shady Sands just haven't been in contact with them again since.

So their perspective would be "NCR gone, idk if they're even around."

Cause so far Moldaver and the survivors in the Vault, plus Maximus are the only ones we know that survived. And based on what they've said, it doesn't look like the NCR tried to come back.

So they probably willingly gave up that specific territory and reorganized their territorial structure with their Capital missing.

[frank ingot]

they would almost certainly have relocated their capital to a safe place, like san fran

[untold socket]

Definitely

[frank ingot]

if ep3-4 doesnt havea cold opening set in san fran im getting worried

they need to be setting up th ncr somehow and not ignoring them

[amber schooner]

Probably the same route as the minutemen; they "exist" but have ceased to be a relevant/coherent force outside a handful of niches, and they live on more in spirit than anything else.

small but interesting thing I noticed in the new ep; the VFX render of LA includes a few real world buildings in it. Even some relatively new ones. Doubt it has any lore implications but still.

[upbeat pumice]

I'd beg to differ given since I know what some leaks show but given I don't think we can't show those here I'll keep them to myself

Plus
I feel they could be spoilers

[amber schooner]

I meant that more as a vibe anyway, they probably aren't literally down to 1 guy who's gonna ask you to go help settlements. But that's what the big B has been doing since Oblivion; knock the old factions down a peg but keep them around in some limited form.

[upbeat pumice]

I can see where are you coming from now

[frank ingot]

its composited on top of stock footage of the city most likely

so its just a byproduct of the process

[amber schooner]

Yeah, just interesting either way. Not even the first time.

The Pitt has a bunch of real world buildings in it too and 76 actually reaffirmed them

[frank ingot]

thats a bit different. they anchor the place to the real pitssburgh on purpose. the production team just uses stock aerial footage of the city because its way cheaper than having your art team create a full render for just an establishing shot

[amber schooner]

I'd say the same thing could be going on here, even if it's not a deliberate artistic choice to keep them in. Downtown LA is very much iconic the way it's shown in the show.

[frank ingot]

and in general the best way to do is vfx is to composite on top of real footage, instad of doing full vfx shots

thats just like my opinion doe

[amber schooner]

Yea, I just think it's neat that they can exist in the FO world if you want them to. That's all. There's no real implications (even if the next game is in SoCal I doubt they're gonna set it entirely in LA)

And the cities get modeled off of vibes. Boston doesn't really need modern architecture to be recognizable. LA kinda does.

[frank ingot]

as european they could have the city's skyline be new york and i wouldnt recognize it as LA unless i saw the hollywood sign lol

[amber schooner]

Lol, yeah.

NY and all of europe also being places we will (sadly) prolly never see in fallout either.

[frank ingot]

they purposefully havent mentioned what happened to NY so they definitely could make something out of it, but my guess is a fallout 76 expedition than a full game is more likely

[amber schooner]

Would be too hard to build a game around a city with that much verticality

Lots of inaccessible interiors and map traversal becomes a pain. Fallout London basically was that and it was annoying.

[hallow flint]

Body double deniers should be banned from coming up with any future theories‼️

[untold socket]

Confused on where this came from cause I didn't bring up Minutemen. I was referencing the people who sided with Moldaver and those in the Vaults all being NCR Remnants, and none of them describe interacting with the NCR again after Shady Sands.

[untold socket]

TRUE

[amber schooner]

Yeah, my point was - the NCR might still exist, but fragmented and in a state where it doesn't have the ability to reach out. Like the Minutemen were by the time of FO4; they spanned the entire Commonwealth, but they're a fraction of that by the time you wake up.

They haven't tried to come back because they can't

[untold socket]

Ah, makes sense. I guess because the NCR had more of a population that ramped up to the millions it'd be a bit more difficult to believe it fragmented so easily. But the NCR's biggest flaw was it's expansion. But that's something I touched on earlier was that Shady Sands was their rude awakening, and they haven't come back because they need to rebuild.

[amber schooner]

I certainly hope so. I'd be pretty miffed if ALL of the major settlements on the west coast got nuked. I can tolerate Shady Sands being gone. Would be pretty annoying if the same thing happened to Dayglow, New Reno, Vault City, etc.

[untold socket]

It begs the question - Shady Sands is gone but the city around the Observatory is larger than Shady Sands and can be used as a larger replacement for whatever Faction. Plus you're correct there's a bunch of other cities that I'm hoping we learn about at the very least, their fate I mean.

[amber schooner]

Yep, and they managed to turn the power on for seemingly all of LA with one single cold fusion device. So the livability has actually gone up if anything.

[distant glacier]

If they nuke all the huge cities like they did with shady sands then that really is a big ass fuck you and middle finger to the classics lmao

[distant glacier]

Well the city around it is the Angels Boneyard

Its an industrial and population powerhouse of the NCR, yet we don't really see any of that

little concerned at the fact that they just portrayed LA as abandoned ruined, but it is a big place so, hopefully they didn't retcon one of the most important cities in Fallout out of existence.

[untold socket]

True, hm. That. . . Makes it tricky then. Hold up did they really start subtly showcasing the NCR's collapse. I didn't realize the Observatory was near Boneyard.

[distant glacier]

They did retcon shady sands to be right beside boneyard for whatever fucking reason

[untold socket]

It would officially solidfy the theory that Bethesda doesn't want anything to do with the original IP owners. Lmao

[distant glacier]

Yup

[untold socket]

Okay, that makes sense.

[amber schooner]

Doubt they retconned it outright, but major urban locations are also clearly antithetical to the show's vibe. They can't avoid it for NV but the show is still doing what their RPGs have done; oddball isolated locations with raiders, wastelanders, and hostile mutants in between vast emptiness.

[distant glacier]

The biggest concern of mine about the show is the fact that they have not mentioned any of the other huge states/cities in New California like Reno, Boneyard, Hub, even Vault City which would be somewhat important to mention considering the vault tech storyline

[distant glacier]

Very unfortunate, since that is antithetical to the games lore, but it is what is is.

They forced the east coast to be a post apoc, sucks they seem to be enforcing that on a post-post-apoc world that is the west coast

[amber schooner]

Yeah, I don't think lore was ever a huge priority for them. Like every single Bethesda game involves nuking the past, metaphorically or literally.

Oblivion: the Septim dynasty you've been following since the very beginning of TES
Skyrim: the entirety of Morrowind and the Empire itself
F4: The characters you helped in the BoS in F3.
TV show: so far, everything we've seen on the west coast.

[distant glacier]

Indeed

[amber schooner]

Probably won't even commit to an ending for NV.

[untold socket]

Nah - they won't it'll probably be the most neutral ending, they might even cut out the courier's involvement.

[calm raven]

I gotta say, I feel like that space needle looking thing wouldn't do so well in earthquake territory

[untold socket]

Cause realistically the only thing that's dependant on the Courier is the delivery of the platinum chip, everything else can play out without the character being there. The Courier and Ulysses are more or less intertwined but they're external to FNV's main story. So they can get away with not mentioning or showing them.

[calm raven]

That's mainly why LA in real life doesn't have a ton of skyscrapers like other cities close to its size

[amber schooner]

I doubt they'll even address it. The whole existence of House 2 in the show is very obviously a way to keep the aesthetic of the character (howard hughes businessman, robco, lucky 38) but let it be undetermined whetherNV house still plugged in or not. NCR, Legion, or Independent Vegas endings, they can simply say that all fell apart.

[distant glacier]

very tragic that the depiction of LA in the show doesn't have the massive art deco

[untold socket]

And judging by the teasers the Courier did deliver the Chip, at the very least. The securitrons are upgraded, so. It's easy for them to say the Courier fucked off after completing his delivery.

So he delivered the chip, went to follow Ulysses and that was that. Instead of intermingling with the Mojave affairs. That's probably the route they're going with.

Not that I agree with it, it would make sense though.

[calm raven]

Eh, I think some of those buildings have art deco vibes. It's more of a balanced mix between aesthetics

[amber schooner]

Eh, there's other ways to get around that. You can upgrade the securitrons and still go for any ending.

And I think upgraded securitrons appear at big MT in OWB regardless

Though my real guess is they won't even explain it. The props are there to be cool NV robot shorthand, not for lore

[untold socket]

Nah they're. . . Glitched not upgraded but like, idk how to explain it. Their faces are different, and from what I remember going through it recently, they were not proper securitrons but idk I could be wrong.

[distant glacier]

Its definitely missing the massive faces and sculptures, they probably just wanted to go with a more realistic approach, which I understand, but it really cuts out some of that fallout identity imo

[amber schooner]

Even then, maybe someone managed to unlock a handful of them, or something like that

[distant glacier]

Probably the real explanation lmao

[amber schooner]

That's already what they're doing. Novac in ep1 was cool but putting it in there and the Khans in there was just for the sake of referencing NV and showing off the aesthetic. It's not being made with lore in mind, not really.

[distant glacier]

yeah Novac was fucked up in the show ngl

they completely messed up helios one, like horrifically

they completely removed old lady gibsons scrapyard, and novac is like 20 feet away from helios

[calm raven]

Most of the art deco looking buildings are too far away to really tell, but maybe if we see them up close in the future we’ll get more of that

[distant glacier]

fair enough

[amber schooner]

Yeah, it's there for the easter egg. Not for a 1:1 recreation of the game map.

[distant glacier]

ugh

[untold socket]

Yeah i wonder if it's more related to this than anything, i don't think it's that intentional - like imagine we go the entire season and don't ever see Helios again? It was probably just there for show, and just to say, "Hey this thing is here - it's by Novac canonically."

[distant glacier]

yeah im surprised they kinda just skipped over that and mojave outpost

especially since mojave outpost has the two massive statues

and is the single entrance into the mojave from new cali

[calm raven]

It very well could be considering that the shot of NV in the finale to the last season had a lot less detail than how we saw it this season

[amber schooner]

This season isn't really about NV, it's just kinda set there

[calm raven]

But the size and placement of Helios One did bother me a little, I won't lie

[untold socket]

Yeah because im ngl, from far away, NV looked kinda small - but up close? Damn did that fucking city like quadruple in size. But that's also, kinda irrelvant due to game scale vs. tv media scale.

[calm raven]

It looked too small, there was a road between the tower and the main building for some reason, and it was on the wrong side of the road anyway

[distant glacier]

they drove a fucking highway right through helios

[amber schooner]

It's not just from far away, they straight up changed how it looks. The S1 ending teaser only had the city core and none of the surrounding stuff.

[distant glacier]

No way would Novac come out of Operation Sunburst unscathed if it was this close tbh

[calm raven]

If it's there based on this shot, then the camera should be facing north, in which case both Novac and Helios should be on the other side of the road

[distant glacier]

Im also surprised at zero mention of the Repconn test facility (or atleast reference to it)

[worn ruin]

Freeside looks like it's doing fine from the trailers

[distant glacier]

True

[amber schooner]

I'm glad about that. Still wondering what the hell happened on the strip though.

[untold socket]

It's expanded, for sure.

[amber schooner]

And why everything is covered in dust. It's normal streets in NV.

[untold socket]

Yeah we only got mention of RepConn - but no mention of the facility.

[distant glacier]

Actually Freeside seems alot smaller in the show, they've jammed all the major stores and locations into one street

[untold socket]

All they did was confirm House owned RepCon I think.

[distant glacier]

and they're right up against the entrance of the strip

[untold socket]

I could be misremembering.

[distant glacier]

House owns Robco, I think repconn collaborated with them though

[worn ruin]

the street with the Atomic Wrangler and Silver Rush is still there, Only Mick & Ralphs got moved to be beside the North Gate

[calm raven]

I don't want to be one of those people, but the Novac set was built from scratch and yet the layout was still completely different

[worn ruin]

The explore page on Prime video website also shows they made an exterior for the School of Impersonation

[untold socket]

House owns RobCo, RepCon, H&H, and there's like one or two more.

[amber schooner]

Just remember that they have to adjust for filming realities. Might not be practical to build it as sprawling as it was in the game, so they move the shops to where you can see them so you know they're still around.

[distant glacier]

Indeed

An unfortunate fact of filming

[calm raven]

But I'm not going to hate on the show and decide that the entire fallout timeline is broken because of these small discrepancies

[distant glacier]

atleast we know that some kings are still unghoulified

[amber schooner]

plus, the games themselves also don't necessarily have "the real" layout.

they're ultra condensed

[distant glacier]

yup, lorewise these towns span miles and house thousands of people

[calm raven]

That too, everything is downscaled

[worn ruin]

From the looks of it Lucy & the Ghoul might enter the Strip from a south gate (cut content in NV) but have to flee into Freeside when they encounter the Deathclaw?

[untold socket]

Had to double check, he owned House Industries, and RobCo, and had majority if not almost all stock in companies like H&H, RepConn Aerospace, etc etc. So for all intensive purposes, he owned them. But there's a lot of unknowns too cause he owned half of Vegas, and oversaw the companies involved with the Casinos.

[calm raven]

(Except Helios, apparently, which appears to be upscaled)

[distant glacier]

Yeah lol

[calm raven]

Actually, it might even be the exact same size in-game. But with everything else being bigger, it just looks small

[amber schooner]

Not only upscaled, the proportions are straight up wrong. The tower and reflectors look like they're way off in the distance but they're the same size as the power poles.

[distant glacier]

they shrunk down helios, it is WAY smaller in the show lmao

[orchid violet]

alot of them are subsidaries of Robco

[worn ruin]

tbh Novac was probably the town in NV with the probably the lowest chance of lasting long, even ignoring how many of the ending involve the residents abandoning it

[distant glacier]

Yup, Im not surprised on Novac turning out the way it did

The town in itself isnt built to last, it exists solely because of helios scrapping (before the BOS and NCR) and scrapping from repconn

[orchid violet]

do yall watch Heavy spoilers or Emergency awesome?

[worn ruin]

I'm guessing episode 2-4 will be Lucy & The Ghoul "side-questing" as maybe the Brotherhood story takes more prominence.

[untold socket]

Yes.

[worn ruin]

I saw that Walton Goggins let it slip that ||Goodsprings ||is in ||episode 4||

[calm raven]

There's still plenty of other locations we might get to see later in the season. The end credits hinted at Primm, so that's interesting

[distant glacier]

Looking forward to see some Brotherhood bastards get blown up in their airships

[untold socket]

We'll probably get some scenes here and there of the Brotherhood. But they'll be later in the season probably flipping back and forth between Hank's plot and the Brotherhood.

[distant glacier]

Idk if the ghoul can beat easy pete, thats gonna be a crazy fight

[calm raven]

And even if Lucy and the Ghoul don't visit these places in the order that makes geographical sense, other characters might

[untold socket]

Could you imagine if Easy Pete is still alive??? 😂

[amber schooner]

End credits have some places that aren't necessarily in. One of the ending scenes last season was built around LAX.

[distant glacier]

he'd be like 120 years old lmao

[untold socket]

It'd be so funny though.

[distant glacier]

"im easy pete, what can I do for ya"

[calm raven]

True, although they at least walked near LAX in that episode

[orchid violet]

being Chinese

[worn ruin]

The depiction of Griffith Observatory in episode 7 credits didn't match how it appeared in Episode 8 either, so they're not necessarily accurate or chronological

[orchid violet]

I want to see more Chinese involvement in the show than in the games, so to see war from their end

[calm raven]

I did see there being an NCR flag in Primm in those credits, suggesting that the Courier canonically chose to have them take over the town. Pure speculation, of course

[distant glacier]

They got merked hard by the Americans, by the time the nukes flew US troops had a hold in the gobi desert and were advancing on Shanghai and Beijing

The chinese army had a strong initial hold on Anchorage with the stalemate, but it was shattered by Power Armor units and fighting

[calm raven]

At the end of the day, I don't see why the NCR couldn't just take it anyway if they committed more manpower to the area

[orchid violet]

what of the power armor flaws mentioned in s1?

[distant glacier]

They got alot of men killed, but the government produced tons of suits

The safety of the grunt inside didn't matter, it just mattered that they could give infantry a tool that could carry heavy munitions

[amber schooner]

Pretty sure a producer interview also said that all the NV factions "believe they won," (no idea what that means but...) so they could've just taken it over regardless of game events.

[untold socket]

That was only the t60 model, i believe.

[orchid violet]

The build up to the day of the nukes going off is spicy, I am loving it

[distant glacier]

protection wasn't the main point of power armor anyways, its just an added bonus

[distant glacier]

yeah its pretty inconsistent, the game acts like they can't send in a couple squads to clean house in primm, but then we see like a dozen ncr troopers absolutely mow down the correctional facility with ease against like 40 powder gangers lol

[untold socket]

Yeah keep in mind power armors were designed to be multifunctionally. They used it for mining, heavy lifting, military, etc etc.

[calm raven]

I could see the NCR winning the dam, then Shady gets nuked, NCR withdraws most of its forces, Legion takes over and crosses the Dam, and now both factions have scattered forces in the region

Doubt if it'll be confirmed though

[worn ruin]

Some of the towns remaining independent from the NCR even in the NCR ending was one of those things that don't really make sense in hindsight. The NCR wants the Mojave as its sixth state.

[untold socket]

Would also be assuming they suffered no new losses, it appears the Legion has a new Legate.

So we'd probably assume the Lanius we knew is dead, or died.

[calm raven]

I'm still of the belief that Macaulay is Vulpes Inculta

[orchid violet]

will we find out what happened to the COurier ?

[calm raven]

But he took the Legate's armor and declared himself Caesar

[untold socket]

It could be, but the Legate is definitely not Lanius. The new Legate is lowkey a short king.

[amber schooner]

I think you can count on that. It lines up with past transfers of characters when their fates are ambiguous.

[calm raven]

I highly doubt it. If we're lucky, the Courier might get a mention or two

[untold socket]

Probably loosely mentioned, but not learn much about him - Besthesda is going to keep player characters out of mentions, i think.

[calm raven]

If they're afraid to make a choice of ending - 1 of 4 choices - then they're probably also afraid of making a decision on something where you have nearly infinite choices - being the identity, appearance, gender, and choices of Courier Six

[worn ruin]

2/4 endings do involve the courier winning the battle for the NCR then booting them out, So I can maybe get the NCR going "we won but then Mr. House/some mailman stabbed us in the back"

[amber schooner]

Yeah, no chance. F4 didn't tell us anything solid about the Lone Wanderer to my knowledge.

Although, actually, it does invalidate at least one choice you can make in that game

[untold socket]

The prydwen existing already rules out majority of the endings for FO4. Unless they're wild and they wanna bring in the Cut content ending for FO4, where all factions unite against the Institute.

[worn ruin]

Can only really infer that the LW activated the purifier without modified FEV and then sided with the BoS in Broken Steel

[calm raven]

I do know that the existence of the Commonwealth Brotherhood proves the extinction of the Institute

[untold socket]

This.

[worn ruin]

Commonwealth Brotherhood basically rules out 3/5 endings, Institute, Railroad and Minutemen-with the Brotherhood hostile

[amber schooner]

Yep, and explicitly can't have blown up the Citadel, because we know how both Lyons died, and it doesn't line up with that version of events at all.

[untold socket]

The only three endings possible are BoS ending, Minutemen/BoS alliance ending, or the ending where Railroad, BoS, and MM unite against the Institute.

[dense carbon]

Aside from the guy from f02 likely being no bark, I think the only play character we'll actually get any real info on either in the show or a future title would be the sole survivor

[dense carbon]

I could see courier 6 being mentioned but no actual details on him or her

[calm raven]

I really hope the canonical ending to fo4 is the Minutemen broker peace between RR and BoS

[distant glacier]

the sole survivor is a psychotic killing machine that the brotherhood releases on people they dont like

[untold socket]

That's the cut content ending.

[calm raven]

I believe you can still choose that ending?

[worn ruin]

It's not so much an "alliance" from the perspective of the Brotherhood as the Sole Survivor doing an off-the-books op with the Minutemen

[dense carbon]

Meh, to be fair aside from the railroad ss would only get sent to fight mutants & synths

[untold socket]

Not without a mod, unfortunately.

[worn ruin]

Majority of the Brotherhood (aside from Quinlan) will chew you out for doing it

[calm raven]

I could've sworn I did that on my first playthrough

[untold socket]

Yeah - I just meant that it would keep the Prydwen intact. As every other ending requires you to blow it up. LOL

[dense carbon]

Proctor Quilin quite literally describes the ss use of the minutemen instead of the brotherhood for the ending as using the mm as "virtual cannon fodder"

[amber schooner]

Trailers are making it not look too good for it anyway. Might've just delayed the inevitable

[orchid violet]

ive been avoiding all trailers, even the ones at the end of the episdoe

[untold socket]

It's not the Prydwen that blows up, I'm almost positive it's the Cassawen airship Quintus has. Blowing up the Prydwen after confirming it was canon and intact, would be really silly.

The Prydwen did not stay in the West - it only arrived at the end to drop in reinforcements, and it's safe to assume it left. Quintus more than likely got the Cassawen. It's confusing because it's an error they chose not to fix until later. But yeah.

[worn ruin]

Given the airship in season 1 was called the Caswennan in pre-release, I figured it being the Prydwen in Season 1 was a case of them re-using a render of it from the game

[amber schooner]

I think you're putting a little too much faith in continuity. They'll blow stuff up unceremoniously if it serves whatever plot they want to tell now.

[hallow flint]

I think so too

[untold socket]

This, yeah. Like I mentioned it's an error they just didn't fix until later.

[untold socket]

I disagree, especially given they went through the trouble of correcting it, but we can agree to disagree.

[worn ruin]

So who wants to bet that after ||Paladin Xander Harkness (Kumail)|| is called that on-screen we're going to see people ask if he's ||Harkness ||from Fallout 3

[untold socket]

Everyone, lol it'll be Anthony house all over again.

[hallow flint]

They already are

[untold socket]

"I think it's anthony!"
"I think it's Harkness from rivet city!"

[hallow flint]

Even tho Harkness is just an old English name like a lot of the brotherhoods

[amber schooner]

Except in this case it's a "twist" that offers literally nothing

[untold socket]

yeah

[amber schooner]

the FO3 guy doesn't even look similar at all and has no connection whatsoever

"hey that guy who ran security at rivet city is back" WOAH! CRAZY!

[untold socket]

It didn't stop people from assuming Robert's body double was Anthony.

Despite everything in lore pointing to Anthony loathing Robert beyond belief, lol people still jumped on it.

[amber schooner]

that's at least workable from a twist angle since they're obviously setting up one house to not be the same house that we see in NV. It's wrong, but you can get why it might work in theory.

This is just "some guy had the same name" = "must be the same guy"

[worn ruin]

People were genuinely speculating that a character called Claudia on the IMDB cast listing was going to be a character from Raul's backstory, except that Claudia had been dead for possibly decades if not a over a century.

[untold socket]

It's such a unbelievable stretch with every information provided in the show, and with Anthony. In the show it's implied Robert already has stocks in H&H, meaning he pretty much owns it - which implies Anthony's descent into madness is happening around that moment. There's zero indication to prove otherwise.

Robert buying stocks into H&H is what causes Anthony to mass murder, and lock H&H down.

[worn ruin]

tbh it requires negative media literacy, why H&H is mentioned in the show is obvious if you look what the scene is doing

House is mocking the construction workers for using power tools made a company he owns

[untold socket]

This, this is literally the case. Lol

[orchid violet]

this is real

Are you guys keen for the rest of the season? Do you like it being released week by week?

[worn ruin]

People nowadays genuinely have "theory-brains" where a scene can't just be a scene but has to be a hinting at something, even when everything about the scene is clear as day

[amber schooner]

yeah, it's just one tier above like, if you remember when NV came out:

"omg, vance's 9mm SMG? is that the same vance who was the vampire in F3?!?!?!"

[untold socket]

I don't mind it, genuinely. I suffered years of weekly releases for GoT i can handle this. Lol

[worn ruin]

I blame Matpat (not really)

[untold socket]

Mr Congress Theory man himself.

But yeah it's - idk, the amount of mental gymnastics you'd have to do to validate Anthony even remotely being in the same room, or working alongside Robert is too much for it to make any narrative literal sense, but that's just me.

[amber schooner]

And the mental gymnastics you need to think the showrunners care that much about a very obscure piece of NV lore when it comes to actually writing the A plot of the season

[worn ruin]

Yeah the intent is "House is arrogant and looks down on others" mentioning H&H is just a neat reference and ties into the scene because he owns the company

[untold socket]

They do care enough because they literally clarified it. It's not that hard to understand??? If they did not care, they wouldn't go through the trouble of stating as such.

[worn ruin]

I think they probably got a bio of house or read the wiki and decided to incorporate the H&H tools into a scene they already had in mind.

[amber schooner]

I meant in the first place. People went "it's anthony" because they started with the idea that the showrunners were using obscure NV notes. The fandom acted there first. I doubt anthony house even gets mentioned in the show.

[worn ruin]

The scene wouldn't change if you removed the H&H tools reference at all

[untold socket]

I mean I'd agree, actually. Maybe I misunderstood what you specifically meant.

[untold socket]

Yeah.

[mighty scaffold]

Aren't they yellowish in 3/nv

[worn ruin]

It would still be House telling the construction workers they're obsolete with the power tools and hammers comparison.

H&H Nail Gun is just a "i remember that from Fallout: New Vegas™: Lonesome Road™"

[untold socket]

Yeah because the way the scene played out - I mentioned it before, but it's like he's saying he's inevitable. House always wins, whether you're a disgruntled unionist, or not - you are still filling his pockets, co-signing his ideas by using his company, etc etc.

[amber schooner]

Yeah. Even House's characterization will be whatever the showrunners want it to be. And the mind control tech plotline will be whatever they want it to be.

They'll sneak in references and nods but not be constrained.

[worn ruin]

TBH most of House's dialog even if you do everything he says drips with condescension, I didn't really like the scene from the perspective of I don't think House would be boots on the ground experimenting on random joes. But I think Justin Theroux captures how insufferable House could be.

[untold socket]

But the references and nods have to have some sort of literacy. They're not gonna blow it off completely because whatever they do is gonna end up being canon.
The showrunners, while are pretty much confirming things in their own way - it still has to be media literate. Anthony being involved is not media literate was my point at least.

[amber schooner]

Yeah I'm not talking about Anthony at this point, just in general.

Like I don't have very high expectations that the NCR or Legion will be particularly complex in the show either

[worn ruin]

House's actually actions in the game show most of his libertarian spiel about respecting individual freedoms are mostly lies.

[untold socket]

Yeah, the boots on the ground thing is interesting. I wouldn't have pegged Robert to be someone who gets his own physical hands dirty. But it doesn't take away from it too much because he did do it for the sake of progression.

And also riding of Unionists.

[worn ruin]

Deacon in Fallout 4 puts it really well with the kind of spiel guys like House and Caesar give "There're other organizations out there. And, in time, I'm sure they're going to spoon-feed you their own patented form of bullshit. Ignore the verbage and look at what they're doing. What they're asking you to do."

[amber schooner]

Which does pretty much sum up Bethesda's view of ideologies, lol

Though I guess the series tagline does invite that cynicism, so

[untold socket]

I was gonna say the immediate word to come to mind was cynicism lol

[worn ruin]

I wouldn't "look at what people are actually doing and not the spiels they give you" isn't necessarily cynical

depending on how you read Caesar it can even be the intention that he's a faux intellectual blowhard justifying his petty desires to be a tyrant with philosophy he gets wrong

[untold socket]

Well no, but each faction is self-serving. They are all motivated by their own self-interests and what benefits them. At least to me. Doesn't mean I don't like them - but it is all self-serving for their ideologies at the end of the day.

[amber schooner]

The cynical part is how it lines up with the fact that nobody really believes what they're doing. They exist to play a particular role in the story.

Why do "raiders" all dress the same and act the same? Because you need a generic low level enemy group to spam around the map, not interiority. What do the Talon Company or Gunners actually do? Nothing, they're just a more militarized always hostile faction for you to fight, you're not supposed to think about it too hard.

[worn ruin]

It is still a game first and foremost. New Vegas wasn't immune to that. The Jackals and Vipers are always hostile and exist to pad out the early game with enemy encounters. They're not any less generic because they have a name.

Fiends are everywhere in Outer Vegas and the description they ever get is being a inexplicably well-organized gang of drug addicts

[amber schooner]

It's not immune to it, but it has way less of a problem with it. The Jackals and Vipers occupy a couple locations on the map and exist alongside the Khans, Fiends, Powder Gangers, etc. who actually do have some elements to them.

The game does a better job of at least characterizing each place on the map as distinct, and held by different groups of people.

Whereas DC and Boston are just kind of like Fallujah for no real reason

[untold socket]

Fiends should've had more content, i'll stand on that

[worn ruin]

The leaders you kill in the bounty quests do have dialog, they're just set to always hostile so you never hear i

Driver Nephi even had some backstory with that Ghoul over in one of the NCR refugee center in Outer Vegas

[untold socket]

oh yeah, Nephi literally succumbed to his addiction iirc - that Ghoul was his friend, trying to help him

That I do remember

[worn ruin]

I'm kind of interested in what other cut content they might reimplement or reinterpret, we already had Vault 24 and looks like we might get the south entrance to the Strip

[untold socket]

I'm in the same boat, not just from FNV but FO4, too.
It at least shows that they're more than willing to lean into it.

[mighty scaffold]

The existence of cut content in the show signals to me that they have people who are deep into the lore of the games

Hell I didn't even know about v24

I mean I probably did know of it from a triangle city video but completely forgot by now

[untold socket]

Yeah, that's what I meant earlier by the showrunners caring enough - they have to, to some degree.

[shrewd berry]

still interested in this photo

[untold socket]

Some folks went over it earlier, but it probably shouldn't be taken as gospel/confirmed canon just yet. Not until we learn more.

[distant glacier]

Heres hoping, because that description blows

[frank ingot]

i think i realized what theyre going for with the story. ||they're doing the original planned ending for fallout ie. enclave building the starship, and it's being built by house just like FNV prophecied. im just not sure how the mind control chips feature into this. maybe they intend to mind control the BoS so they can get the power source or the cold fusion to power the starship.||

||and i guess the plan involves nuking all mutants before they leave just to give the characters some reason why they would want to stop the enclave||

[distant glacier]

Yeah it'd be pretty wild if the Enclave had plants or sleeper cells in the Brotherhood

Imagine if that new Paladin Xander guy turns out to be an Enclave sleeper agent

instigating civil war and playing sides like a game of chess

[untold socket]

The Enclave definitely has a bigger role - it's probably gonna be show or teased more at the end of this Season and probably Season 3.

But yeah it seems like they're really delving into cut content, or scrapped plans. Which im all for, honestly.

[frank ingot]

i just hope the vault tec nuking ppl for profit is a red herring

[plush blaze]

episode 1 is making things very interesting
we're getting Deathclaws, Mirelurks
I always thought the sound that Mirelurks is kinda creepy. And looking back at season 1 where we got introduced to gulpers, I saw that in their mouths there's kinda fingers

[untold socket]

Yeah the gulper mutation is interesting cause it also implies that much like mirelurks, the location changes the spieces more than likely.

[plush blaze]

🤔

[crimson rain]

Anyone else just kept telling Norm to just eat buds brain?

[thorny steppe]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/719614393435815936/1450983593353679019/flea_soup.gif

[bronze nymph]

thats how you get prions

[pale merlin]

I ain’t really into that I wanna see places where the courier has been

Bro I had a crazy dream last night about the fallout show and like they were in the good springs saloon and the courier was there with the enclave fighting NCR I am very desperate

[teal cosmos]

welcome to Antifa, Cooper Howard 😎

[solid moss]

Its still tasty

[blazing willow]

anyone else wonder why he didn't unfreeze all them people sooner instead of nearly dying of thirst and starvation or am i missing something

because he just pressed some buttons and viola

[solid moss]

Because its as he said
It is irrational

Also
Its as he also said
Its chaos if he did it

[blazing willow]

yes. but why didn't he do it before nearly dying.

did he need some time to ponder the orb

[solid moss]

Because... plot?
Also its not something you would immeditely want to do

Norm not stupid, he knows how much chaos it can be formed and how it will affect all the people in his vault

I mean
He saw what happened when the residents find out the real truth
They died in a cruel way

If he released all of them
The outcome could very likely be everyone dying

[blazing willow]

good point

[solid moss]

and i think that will happened because of the trailer showing vault getting infected by radroaches

[pale merlin]

He prolly didn’t think it

I mean I wouldn’t too for a bit

[dense carbon]

It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out without the 33 guys dying but not the 31’s as a scene in the trailers shows a group of dwellers leaving the vault with norm with only 31 jumpsuits

[pale merlin]

He was prolly trying to think if a way to get out not as coomplex as that

He was trying to think of how to convince the buddaskins why he should let him out

[solid moss]

So far
They are cooking with the story

So anyone got cards while we waiting m.ugin finish writing

[blazing willow]

here's my counter argument - which isn't strong:

his options were:

• [ Get in His Dad's Cryo Pod ]
  • essentially a death sentence because why would Bud wake him up, unless he decided to use him in a sadistic experiment. and even if he did wake up, he likely would've outlived his sister, his dad (who he currently does not know is some big-britches evil guy), Chet, and anyone else he considered a friend or family member - an option, but a shit one.
• [ Starve to Death or Die of Dehydration ]
  • also an option, but still shit.
• [ Release Everyone from Cryo - Forcing Bud to Do Something, even if that Something Is Bad ]
  • honestly the best choice as it forces Bud to take some form of action. could thus result in Norm dying? yes. but it's his best chance at having a better outcome. it's also an option. a shit one and a very reckless and risky one. but the best option.

but i still can't understand why he waited so long to make that final decision… i understand that making a decision out of three choices - all of which pretty much guarantee death (100% on the starvation and dehydration) would take time to process as that's a lot psychologically.

storytelling reasons mainly ig

[solid moss]

Oh...
So that what took so long

[blazing willow]

https://tenor.com/view/druski-shrug-hands-up-druski-shrug-druski-idk-meme-gif-7093177929627107381

[solid moss]

The reason i give that he took was because how irrational it is
As in, he cannot predict the outcome of it

The other two options have an outcome that he can predict

If he doesn't stay in cryopad, he dies
If he stays in crypad, he lives or later he dies

No matter what happened
Both choices, he know what will happen

But releases all of them?
The outcome is unknown

There so many things that can happen in theory that its unpredictable

He unsure if the staff will kill him and then just go back to the cryopad
He is unsure if they are gonna fix the problem, kill him and then go back to cryopad
He is unsure if the same treatment that happened in vault 32 will happen again to his vault

This is a choice i believe he had in his mind during his time but took time to think about and decided against it due to how insane it was
However once he realise he got no choice, he made that choice as he quote
"Chaos is easy"

It will be a chaotic mess, that outcome is 100% guranteen
Whatever happens next
He just gonna improvise at that point

[worthy warren]

Yeah, also refreezing that many people may not be possible, or norm will sabotage the pods so they can’t freeze

It is definitely chaotic if not irrational

[tight kayak]

2 days later and i still can't get the gross flea soup outta my head

[worthy warren]

What’s funny is that lady had a smoker and other cooking stuff, she definitely had more then flea soup

[solid moss]

Yes however there can be a potential they could just fix the pods or he just never got the chance to sabotage it
Its like i said

The two choices he was given, he knew the outcome
This choice however, he doesnt know what will happen afterwards

[untold socket]

The Watership, as well, if he unthawed them it would speed up their time in the Vault due to the immediate population increase, cause the chip is not repaired yet. Evident by them possibly leaving the Vault sooner rather than later in one of the trailers, as well. It seems like it had some ripple effects.

[worthy warren]

I’m not positive that 33 shares its water with 31 and 32

[tight kayak]

its been a while since i watched season 1 but did Hank even mention Norm at all during that time

[worthy warren]

Yeah indirectly

When Lucy asks why he did it. He said he did it for her and norm

[tight kayak]

ok so he does care for his son to some degree then at least

[bronze nymph]

i think its more of a side characters dont talk to each other as much, less a doesn't love his kid in his weird narcissitic way thing

[worthy warren]

Yeah norm just wasn’t relevant to the discussion

Lucy didn’t bring them up either

[solid moss]

Also the obvious factor that norm not there so hank assume norm at the vault

He could mention where norm but i feel like he knows lucy wont let him out of the vault

Although right now, that is probably the best thing that could happen to norm than whatever going on over there XD

[upbeat pumice]

Have I already mentioned I'm desperate for NCR stuff

Because I am desperate for NCR stuff

[tight kayak]

we'll get some eventually, the trailer indicated as much

im more curious on what the Legions been up to

[solid moss]

Honestly i just want pre-war lore

[untold socket]

Walking around with a new Legate, apparently.

[floral siren]

I kind of hope we see more of the Great Khans

Not that I'm attached to the faction, I just wanna see more of them than them getting slaughtered by Cooper lol

[frank ingot]

so is the new legate somehow bos affiliated or are people just spouting bs?

[floral siren]

he's literally not been in an episode yet

[frank ingot]

im seeing a lot of ppl say this but i just saw maximus in a tent with roman statues and a bos banner and lmao if this the only connection

[solid moss]

Ah the radroaches?

[heady berry]

I wish that during the novac scene in the background, a shadowy figure would exit from the Dino Delite motel room lol

[solid moss]

I swear, if we get another moment where maximus comes and kills them
At this point, they got killed by 7 main characters and survived

[upbeat pumice]

You know how people are already angry because they think that's Lanius
Even though you already know Lanius is already kaput way before the show

[floral siren]

once amazon is done showing me 37 years of ads Im gonna look at exactly the pic you are referencing

[solid moss]

The vault dweller
Chosen one
Courier (in theory but not confirmed)
Ghoul
Lucy
Dogmeat
And the last if it did happen maximus

So 7 protaganist fought and wiped out the khans and they somehow came back

Obviously that assuming if maximus did actually went and fought the khans and obviously if the courier actually fought them
So realsitcally, 5 character with 2 in theory fighting the khans

[floral siren]

piracy is a bannable offense in this server

Hes not even in a tent hes in a fucking building, its a statue of like....actual historial real caesar, the internet is fucking morons

[heady berry]

which scene was this? or was this in the trailers

[floral siren]

at the very end of ep 1 in a "this season on fallout" thing you see maximus in what looks like a regular bos building, not a tent, not a caesar camp lol

[heady berry]

isnt this the building where all the scribes were studying stuff?

[floral siren]

people are just fucking media illiterate because the next scene shows whoever macully culkin is playing stabbing a dude so clearly no editing was done

I'm just so done with the lack of media literacy lmao

[heady berry]

like iirc werent there gommorah stuff too there?

[floral siren]

people had to have it explained to them why the incest redheads went to the incest support group

[upbeat pumice]

Go to the trailer for episode 2
It is the literal guy just wearing Lanius' armor but not having the build of Lanius but rather Macaulay's build

[floral siren]

because they support incest and misunderstood the posters

[heady berry]

hold on who are we talking about here

[floral siren]

there's not bos stuff anywhere behind him unless people are blind lol

[heady berry]

who are these incestual redheads you are talking about

[floral siren]

feelgoodman mentioned maximus in a "tent" with roman statue and I was pointing out it was a building

and when you see Kevin McCaesar there is no bos stuff anywhere in any scene

[upbeat pumice]

Ofc not what
That's a legion camp
I'm talking about how people actually think that's Lanius

[floral siren]

.........have you watched the episode

[heady berry]

pretty sure i have, ohhhh you mean those 2

[floral siren]

yeah there are people who don't get that they went to the incest support group because they support incest and misread the poster and im like "but how do you not get the joke"

[heady berry]

tbh i just interpreted it as the vd's rejecting the idea that incest is bad since its so normalized in 33

[floral siren]

also folks who are like COOPER SAID HOUSE DROPPED THE BOMBS BUT WE KNOW THAT HE DIDNT!!!!!!!

Like Cooper isn't god, he's working off of the info he has and assumptions, it's called unreliable narrator/characters can be wrong

[thorny steppe]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/719614393435815936/1450983593353679019/flea_soup.gif

[heady berry]

quick question, was the scientist guy that exploded in vault 24 just someone hank kidnapped?

[heady berry]

mmmm protein

[upbeat pumice]

Canonically; Mojave food is better than current British cuisine

[heady berry]

tbf, thats a ground-touching bar

waiiiit, theory, could it be possible that slave collars are an offshoot of the device that vault tek was trying to make?

[thorny steppe]

[worthy warren]

This is from Area 51 which is full of random art and shit

We have seen these statutes since the first trailer

[heady berry]

exactly lol

i wonder if the shows going to show gatling lasers

[hallow flint]

Yes the Area 51 base has a bunch of statues. But they only just recently got to the base apparently

[tepid sable]

Why was vault tec making communists?

[worthy warren]

Because science

[upbeat pumice]

Possibly to study the mind control chips/controlled opposition?

[tepid sable]

I mean still makes more sense than tranquility lane

[lament lichen]

Vault-Tec's just insane like that.

Fellas might as well be the Think Tank on a larger scale.

[heady berry]

could it be possible that hank was communicating with the legion?

[upbeat pumice]

Ohhhhh idk if its plausible but that would be cool

Plus it makes more sense as to why he destroyed Shady

[heady berry]

mosty due to the fact that:
a) he references new vegas as the persons previous stomping grounds, which meant it could be
i) mr house, which doesn't make much sense since its referred as "previous" and mr house has never left new vegas
ii) ncr, which also doesnt make sense since he hates the ncr
iii) brotherhood, which again, doesnt make sense since he hates the brotherhood
iv) caesars legion, which we havent been formally introduced to but we do know that macauly culkin is playing as "a crazy-genius type character" and is in the legion via the trailers

[worthy warren]

He says previous which could be “before the war” he doesn’t know if he’s still there

Also he “assumes he’s still alive” which implies it would be improbable

Which makes more sense for it to be house

[lament lichen]

And heck, for all we know, Hank could be yapping to no one that's able to pick up on that frequency.

[heady berry]

biggest red herring in all of 21st century tv lmao

[heady berry]

those are some fair points, and honestly yeah it's probably mr house. especially with the lucky 38 elevator scene we got in the trailers

but its nice to theorize

[lament lichen]

Still, if it is House, that still admittedly is a bit of a question mark; why would House ever sanction Hank nuking Shady Sands and thus wreck his primary income source? If he didn't know, at best Hank signed his death warrant the moment House would inevitably find out.

[heady berry]

it could be that hank nuked shady sands out of a personal vendetta before learning that house was still alive, iirc didnt he hate a woman there?

[lament lichen]

I mean, his wife skedaddled and took Lucy and Norm with her out of 33 and wound up in Shady Sands.

[worthy warren]

Then you assume that Hank asked his permission and that house knows who did it

[upbeat pumice]

I feel like House is either playing dumb and he is going to have his head on a silver plate or he is planning something

[worthy warren]

The only person before the show that knew seemed to be moldaver

[lament lichen]

True, if House has even a few Securitrons still working and under his command, all he would have to do is play dumb and wait for a good opportunity.

[heady berry]

As a diehard Shi fan, I wish the Shi would appear as a faction in the show. Especially since they would definitely be at odds with the Brotherhood, and they are probably one of the few subfactions that have the technology to deal with the BoS

[worthy warren]

Like I doubt Hank publicly announced that he was the bomber. He probably just snuck it in and set it off, only moldaver knew enough to figure out who it was

Nobody else mentions anything about him doing it

House wouldn’t know who did it either

[lament lichen]

True, and it's not like the NCR couldn't have just blamed the whole thing on the Brotherhood or something.

[heady berry]

It would be kind of hard to find out who nuked Shady Sands, I've always came to the conclusion that Hank left a beacon there when he retrieved Norm and Lucy and told Vault-Tec upon returning to fire a nuke.

Then when Moldaver comes scouring the wreckage, she finds the beacon and puts 2 and 2 together

[worthy warren]

The nuke wasn’t fired

It was placed in the city and detonated

[heady berry]

Ohhhhh

[worthy warren]

We see in the trailer

It’s in the back of a pickup truck and the citizens find it before it goes off

[heady berry]

Er could you send me the link to the trailer

[lament lichen]

Still, if House doesn't know, that still leaves the door open for him to find out during S2.

Not that he probably would be in a position to do anything about it.

[heady berry]

A bit of a disappointment though, if it was a fired nuke, it would leave a lot more open on where the nuke came from, i.e. maybe from Appalachia?

[keen lion]

Rewatched Ep 1 again and while its still quite good does anyone else get the feeling it was a little themeparky?

Like you have Novac and the Khans there act more as set pieces

Not really explaining why Novac is now controlled by the Khans who serve to be cannon fodder

I don't hate it and I am withholding judgment until all of the episodes come out but still

[worthy warren]

The episode is purely to kick off the season, it introduces the new local (Vegas), house, the mind chips, re establishes the ghoul and Lucy’s dynamic, and what Hank is doing.

The story hasn’t started yet and everything used was just to establish the new plot not progress it

Episode 2 will likely be more interesting but also do the same with Thaddeus and max

[keen lion]

I know and like I said I am expecting a better explanation for why the Mojave went to hell. Just a little disappointed to see groups like the Khans be used as like that

[shrewd berry]

yeah it didn't have to be Khans in Novac

[solid moss]

I love how i just browse through youtube and i see like 50 different videos of if the house shwon is real or not XD

[upbeat pumice]

Honestly you have Manny there
That could be the reason
But yeah I agree if this was the whole of season 2 it would be really disappointing
Here's waiting for the 24th

[shrewd berry]

for example it could had been [ Raiders ] in [ Location ]

[solid moss]

Eh
Khans are raider anyways

and beside
They always coming back

[upbeat pumice]

Do you reckon we will get to see the Mojave Outpost anywhere
I was kinda surprised we just jumped kinda in medias res of the whole affair

[trim niche]

???

[distant glacier]

I hope so, since its without a doubt one of the most iconic parts of new vegas, is the single entrance to the mojave from new cali, and is pretty important due to NCR status

[trim niche]

im really hoping this means we get yes man content in the show and he's not just this thing

[upbeat pumice]

Where did you find this?

[distant glacier]

They’ll no doubt reference him

[distant glacier]

Honestly surprised they (allegedly) showed a functioning automobile in the show

They also showed off some motorcycles in novac from the khans, that was cool

Now we just need a highwayman

[worthy warren]

I think Hank likely flew and hiked straight over the mountains and wilderness to get there

The ghoul is a good tracker and probably tried to follow him avoiding much of the locations we know

It’s important to remember that this show is telling a story. It’s not like a game where you can jump into every location and find every character that used to be there. They aren’t gonna show anything that isn’t relevant to the plot. Yeah they most logically would go through the Mojave outpost but they want to show us the ncr a different way (likely though camp golf)

If would be weird as a show if they kept going “this is [blank location] and has [blank person] who did [blank thing]”

[distant glacier]

Hopefully the ncr isn’t just scattered small groups and remnants

Luckily going the logical route, the soldiers we saw behind the scenes look pretty well disciplined and their gear is maintained. And obviously soldiers aren’t going to fight unless they’re getting paid a wage

[upbeat pumice]

Honestly yeah that's what tells me the NCR is still kicking

If with an amputated feet, but still kicking

[distant glacier]

Indeed

[hallow flint]

[distant glacier]

Interesting unit patch aswell

[hallow flint]

Need that

[distant glacier]

Damn even the buttons on the uniform have a unique design

Just noticed that

[upbeat pumice]

They aren't unique actually
They seem based on the Fallout 2's NCR Seal

[distant glacier]

Well unique as in the ncr took time to produce them

Ngl if they can still industrialize to some capacity with this gear then they might be more well off then we think

Along with the brodie helmet ofc

[upbeat pumice]

Oh yeah yeah if you meant that way yeah

[distant glacier]

The ranger armor on the amazon website looks quite good aswell

[trim niche]

https://fallout-s2.amazonstudios.com/?ref_=atv_dp_exp_4968_hb_0_link .
This is on the Explore page of the fallout amazon.com thing where we also see art of Yes Man.

[hallow flint]

You can see it on her

Just barely

[hallow flint]

M

[trim niche]

either they absolutely butchered yes man into being a multiple instance entity, or this is him not recognizing his name after the upgrade he gets at the end of fnv.

Or they just completely neglected his character and didnt program a name lamo

[daring mason]

Its just me or people on the fandom has some kind of obsession on hating the franchise?

I mean, i see people being hatred with the series and i'm like
"Chill out dude, im not Even that level of unemployement!"

The only think i would agree to get mad is if they just Made house like "objectivily rich bad evil villain"

The whole point of him on NV is he was enough Gray choice to at least lead an direction forward

Had his highs and lows and more than a facade seller
At least seemed to promise something and accomplish it
I just hope writers just didnt went like
"Nah lets copy and paste elon musk due after all there Will be people defending actual politics on media doesnt sucks"

[gilded bobcat]

I've noticed a lot of supposed fallout fans are A) Just new vegas fans and B) part of the "new thing bad" crowd

[frigid shell]

I'm just enjoying the fact, that again, Bethesda brought up a plot point, while ignoring the elephant in the room with it.

"Inbreeding Support group." Okay, so apparently incest is a thing in the Fallout universe we're not just ignoring that for the sake of keeping the games not AO. So are we going to just ignore the implications that would have for the BoS and so on? You know that faction that lives in bunkers, and 'lets no outsiders in' and so on?

Just saying, my meme about Veronica being a victim of a cult who groomed her to spread her legs once she turned 18, is all of a sudden a lot more valid, if this is a world where we're acknowledging incest, and 'questionable consent in controlled environments' is actively a thing we're acknowledging.

Congrats Bethesda, your "iconic" faction that is the marketing stunt of the franchise, are now an inbred cult of groomers. Because apparently THINKING THROUGH THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE STUFF WE PUT INTO OUR STORIES. Is too much to ask for these writers.

[hushed cove]

So, the idea that for single chapter it is a big issue sure. The rest? we know the east coast has no such issues. Too large and too accepting of outsiders

Also, sometimes a joke is just a joke. Even in a healthy population this stuff can happen

people are weird that way

[upbeat pumice]

I'm a child in the Sahara about to die from dehydration and this was the last thing I have ever read in my life.
Goodbye.

[mighty scaffold]

Best show ever tbh

Easily a top 3 show of all time

[flat grail]

Im actually going insane

all the big youtubers are saying that its Anthony House when its like so obviously a body double

[frigid shell]

I'm just saying, before it was something that was ignored, the same way children are never seen in GTA 5. It was something you just ignored, because otherwise the implications would make the game rated AO, or so on. But now? Now it's an actual plot point. Now it's something they have actively acknowledged is an issue that happens in-universe.

[flat grail]

Guys am I insane

[hushed cove]

no one knows is the real answer

[mighty scaffold]

It can be both

[hushed cove]

all speculation

[mighty scaffold]

It can be a body double that's being played by Anthony

[flat grail]

House is based on howard hughes, who famously used doubles

[upbeat pumice]

Talking seriously now
I'm really thinking you are reading way to deep into it or really reading it wrong
Where tf did can you even get info that Veronica was a victim without just assuming from what is obviously a joke and secondly a clear effect on such a secluded society

[flat grail]

I think its cool that they showed us vault 24

it was cut from the games

[upbeat pumice]

I'm not for SA or incest fuck no ofc not but I'm confused about how you even got to that conclusion

[gilded bobcat]

Jesus christ I should not have been eating at the soup bit

[hushed cove]

Listen, that soup provides protein and hydration. Important in the wasteland!

[gilded bobcat]

Also on the inbreeding bit, it's gonna be far more serious in the vaults.

Any external group can have transfer.

[frigid shell]

I mean, when she tries to leave the faction, they actively try to kill her. "We don't let outsiders in, but if you try to leave we will murder you......"

Just saying, that's pretty standard Jones Town Cult style stuff.

[upbeat pumice]

have you ever thought that BoS can still be a cult without having those sick parts

[gilded bobcat]

The BoS is also seen to be taking in recruits

Vaults don't. (usually)

[frigid shell]

Except it can't because on the west coast they don't let outsiders in, meaning to keep their population up, they would have to be inbred, and so on

"What does the Codex say? We do not help them or let them in."

[mighty scaffold]

Yea well in fo1 they were recruiting

[upbeat pumice]

OUTSIDER RECRUITMENT WAS A THING SINCE FO1

[frigid shell]

Yeah, the player character. A single instance. rolls eyes

[upbeat pumice]

YOU CAN GET IN

FO2 IS EVEN GREATER IN THAT SENSE

[upbeat pumice]

BY THE TIME OF FO2 THE BOS HAS EMBASSIES IN EVERY SINGLE BIG MAP LOCATION

[gilded bobcat]

Also the core question of stagnate and die or open up and live is the BOS's core thing since FO1

So it's not exactly unexplored

[mighty scaffold]

Fo1 is only 120 years before NV, that's not enough time for inbreeding to become an issue really

[upbeat pumice]

THE MOJAVE CHAPTER ONLY CLOSED UP AFTER HELIOS

[mighty scaffold]

They'd still have enough people not related to get through those years without forced inbreeding

[frigid shell]

I'm more saying "Before it was something that wasn't actively acknowledged", it was one of those "we don't want the games to be rated AO so we're not bringing it up" things.

But now? Now it's actually a plot point in the episode that such things happen and is real in the franchise.

Again, my issue is more of a "can we PLEASE consider the implications of random plot points we bring up" for once?

[upbeat pumice]

It happened. In a Vault. A secluded place where you can't even have the option to recruit new people due to your protocols impeding you from so.

[frigid shell]

Because that kind of world building, has major implications for your setting as a writer. What seems like a "one off joke" can have brutal effects on the world building.

Like was everyone but the Lone Wanderer and his father also products of incest in Fallout 3's vault 101?

[upbeat pumice]

Given that 101 was meant to be closed forever, yes, it could be.
But you know why?

[upbeat pumice]

THIS

THIS IS WHY

[mighty scaffold]

It doesn't make sense that the Vault tec facility Hank goes to is empty

If it's that well preserved there should be at least someone there

[frigid shell]

I'm just saying, this is something that should have never been actively acknowledged for the sake of a one off "joke", and should have been left "handwaved away" with a "we don't acknowledge that because we're not an AO rated game".

[mighty scaffold]

Having inbreeding in your game isn't gonna make it have an adult only rating

[upbeat pumice]

I gave myself some second to breathe and I really have to ask since I'm just dumb
Your problem is just that we haven even gotten explore that part of being in a secluded Vault yet, because of the fact the games weren't rated for such things?

[woven zephyr]

@upbeat pumice quit with the spamming of the large text

[thorny steppe]

[upbeat pumice]

Valid yeah I'm just a bit mad but yeah

[woven zephyr]

then you can step away from the keyboard

[upbeat pumice]

I'll stop it

[mighty scaffold]

So the show basically confirms Microchips existing now

[thorny steppe]

Hav u seen them chips they anything but micro

[frigid shell]

No, my problem is that the world building implications of such a thing, raises SO many additional world building questions, that I'm 99% sure Bethesda isn't going to actively acknowledge. Because this was probably just meant to be a "borderlands" style hick joke.

[woven zephyr]

at the end Hank sees they developed into much smaller chips over the years

[upbeat pumice]

I literally think the only question that this brings up is if other Vaults do this same thing
Really that's it

I don't think there's much more to it

[woven zephyr]

this exactly

[mighty scaffold]

So was Hanks wife also prewar

[woven zephyr]

hanks wife was probably his cousin 😅

[thorny steppe]

[woven zephyr]

I'm joking but I don't think so

[woven zephyr]

it's good you don't know what micro means Tom. It tells me a lot about you

[upbeat pumice]

Like honest
We have much more craaaazy stuff that can have more repercussions on the lore itself
I don't think there's much to be asked about incest in the Fallout universe other than
Who does it
What do they think about it

[thorny steppe]

Wow

[mighty scaffold]

I just noticed something, the guy that everyone kept calling race swapped elder maxson had his name revealed at the end of the episode thanks to subtitles, his name is Paladin Xander

[upbeat pumice]

Actually I wanted to talk about this
That scene in the "Coming next in the season" with the Vault center Hank is in just full of employees now and Lucy just passing through them
Do you think that has something to do with the improved chips

[floral siren]

hes not even wearing maxon's coat, i swear to god this show is making me lose faith in humanity because of the bottom of the barrel takes people keep making lmao

[warped crystal]

is this the first time microchips are shown in fallout?

[floral siren]

like hes wearing the BOS bomber jacket pretty clearly

[mighty scaffold]

The coat is similar but I also didn't think it was maxson

[upbeat pumice]

Heh.
Bottom.
Heh heh.

[floral siren]

people just want something to be mad about i swear

[floral siren]

honestly bottom keysmashes have more thought in them than some of these takes XD

[upbeat pumice]

chip capable of total control of the human mind is invented
incest happens
Which do you think has more reprecussions

[hushed cove]

Fallout 2 was the first one. They even had flat screens. Can't remember if explicitly called LCD screens or not.

[hushed cove]

Option 3: The amount of time it'll take Hank to get through all those voice mails.

[mighty scaffold]

I don't understand that part

[upbeat pumice]

See
Even that will have more reprecussions

Geez I really felt that other conversation just fried some of my last neurons

[hushed cove]

The joke is lovely and layered

[mighty scaffold]

Like why would this secret vault tec facility have that many voice messages, it's safe to assume people were working inside there up til the nukes dropped and after the nukes dropped there isn't going to be any working land lines or whatever to call that place

Really interested to find out where this place is even located, I'm thinking v21 but hard to say

[hushed cove]

Working functional: robots, computers, screens, weapons, cars, missiles, and so on. Can't get hung up on a land line and a joke about voice mails in fallout

[mighty scaffold]

I don't think it was a joke

[gilded bobcat]

It's just part of how ridiculous fallout's world is.

[upbeat pumice]

Or better yet
Let's get hung up about a joke about incest
-# I'll stop

[gilded bobcat]

Even in the apocalypse when everyone is dead emails and corporations keep going.

[warped crystal]

why would house work with vault tec developing the mind device?

[mighty scaffold]

He probably didn't

[calm raven]

I thought inbreeding did get mentioned in fo3?

[upbeat pumice]

Budget alternative for Securitrons?

[mighty scaffold]

It's probably his own private vault he was able to do whatever he wanted with like how they say that during the VT meeting in s1

[gilded bobcat]

Briefly iirc. But it's usually avoided because it has no relevance or need.

[warped crystal]

is it a vault or a facility though

[calm raven]

I will say that the show does touch more on sexual themes, but although I haven't played fo1 and 2, I believe those games also did the same

[floral siren]

/gen did you watch season 1 georgegal

in the scene where they were sitting around the table with coopers wife they literally were offered their own vaults for experimentation they wished to run in exchage for their buy in

[untold socket]

This is a classic misunderstanding of East vs West Chapters. When the lore clearly and distinctively showcases the West being way more unhinged. But to be absolutely and utterly clear, it doesn't apply to the entirety of the Brotherhood. Just the West. Lyon's Brotherhood isn't like this nor is the Commonwealth - you can actively romance Danse before he's actively outed as a Synth. It's clear the East don't care about it to that level.

[warped crystal]

yes vaults but this is not a typical vault it's more like a workplace and research facility

[calm raven]

But for a lot of the things they touch on in the show that might not be as present in the games, I think of it like the showrunners are trying to translate things for a wider audience

[floral siren]

all the vaults are unique though too like

[upbeat pumice]

I never told but like why are you just bringing this up?
Season 1 also had that implied Chet-Lucy incest

[floral siren]

thats like saying that because most other vaults don't have cryo chambers like in 31 and 111 that all the rest of the vaults are not typical

[untold socket]

It sounded like they were upset about Veronica specifically.

[heady berry]

to think, since Vault-Tec had sustainable cryo technology, they could have saved so many more people....

[floral siren]

I think also that they are reading FAR too into incest being a thing. It was for a joke, and has been set up for a joke this while time

[short merlin]

"make mine a huge office, just the way i like it"

• Hank, a child

[floral siren]

Zeekx, don't forget his yoyo

[short merlin]

"i want my yoyo"#

[heady berry]

do we see hugo stolz in the meeting?

[untold socket]

I'd agree, I can understand where they're coming from but it would require such mental gymnastics to ignore the heavy distinctions between East vs. West.

[heady berry]

i dont remember lol

[untold socket]

No Hugo is higher up than the people in the meeting.

When I FIRST saw the shadow guy that Barb was looking at, I considered it Hugo, but I'm more leaning into it being Enclave now.

[heady berry]

to think theres a super-secret meeting above the "super-secret" meeting in the show xd

[upbeat pumice]

If that's the case again I have reiterate
The Mojave Chapter for as much as they are a cult, actually did seem to care for Veronica as their child, and she seems to also love them for that
To have what @frigid shell implies as actual truth would be just contradicting all of that, contradicting what Veronica and others say in the chapter, and it would be breaking my heart :[
Veronica is nice she don't deserve that :[[[

[untold socket]

Yeah lol I double checked cause I thought maybe the shadow person could finally be the official Vault Tec CEO we get since there's never been one, and in looking up Vault Tec's rank structure - I saw that Hugo was higher up in the ranking system than Barb.

[frigid shell]

They try to murder her when she tries to leave. Just saying. That's an oddly possessive form of "love".

[upbeat pumice]

Literally just four guys acting on their own

[heady berry]

this lol

didnt they say "we dont care what the elder says"?

[untold socket]

'They' the Elder didn't. The council didn't. A bunch of psychophantic members acting on their own accord doesn't apply to ALL OF THEM. How is this such a hard concept to understand?

[frigid shell]

Again, that's how cults work, never give "direct" orders and so on. "Working towards the Elder".

[untold socket]

If they were as cultish as you make them out to be then why in one of endings did they let her stay in the Followers? If they ALL operated on such a cultish mindset in that regard they would've hunted her down to kill her. But they leave her be.

[upbeat pumice]

I wish I had the mental fortitude and capacity to point out why you are wrong I really wish

But I feel like I'm banging my head to a stubborn wall

Actually, no
I can continue this

[untold socket]

It's severely contradicting and it ignores a lot of what's established character wise, as well as how bad the West is. They don't just operate on a cult like mindset to that extent selectively, if Veronica was a victim of it as described. There's zero chance it'd be a one off incident, and they won't let her get away. But everything that happens in the story is opposite to it. Yeah the Mojave chapter is a little cultish but not to that extent.

[upbeat pumice]

It is a cult
But like, I don't know why suppose all cults have to act a certain way

For all this talk about worldbuilding reprecussions and all
They really don't seem to have a grasp on the flexibility and differences on human group to human group

Shades of gray instead of black and white and all of that

[untold socket]

Yeah directly violating their own rules. Which again, this is strictly a West issue. In the East they don't care who you sleep with. Lol Like I mentioned before you can romance Danse - whether or not you're in the Brotherhood, and before he's revealed as a Synth. And there's nothing stopping you from doing so.

[calm raven]

Individuals acting on their own accord in any group can use the excuse "it's for the good of [organization]" and that's a thing that happens

[heady berry]

"You have no say in this, you are neither Head Scribe nor Elder"
"Their sentimentality prevents them from administering justice. Our duty is to the Codex (mind you that every person interprets the Codex differently) above all..."

They are literally going against the Elder to execute their version of justice.

[calm raven]

Doesn't mean the entire group operates that way. It's a common excuse to say you're more loyal to your faction than its own leader as a basis to do whatever you want

[upbeat pumice]

I can say that I'm bombing your town "for my President"
Dosen't mean my President is sanctioning me to do so

[heady berry]

There are so many real life examples to this I can compare to but I'd rather not get muted for bringing in IRL issues

[upbeat pumice]

That's just appeal to authority

[floral siren]

i think the better angle here is why are you so obsessed with the idea that veronica was horribly abused?

[upbeat pumice]

Yessssss

[upbeat pumice]

Thank you for bringing that up I was worried I was the only one

[calm raven]

Yeah, she talks about the flaws of her Brotherhood with you. Why wouldn't she bring that up too?

[upbeat pumice]

She would, wouldn't she?

[floral siren]

There is literally nothing in the games to support the violent fantasy that has been presented, the most you learn about her sexual life at all is that she likes feminine women

[heady berry]

Veronica lived a relatively sheltered life with a dysfunctional family. Dysfunctional =/= abusive.

[upbeat pumice]

I can get behind this

[heady berry]

A dysfunctinoal family can be absuive, but they are not necessarily abusive

[untold socket]

This, and some subtle dialogue Christine mentions, I think.

[floral siren]

and that the brotherhood broke her up with another woman because they wanted her to seek a relationship that resulted in reproduction

[upbeat pumice]

My inner family is a bit dysfunctional sometimes but we wouldn't hurt each other
We still love each other

[floral siren]

that doesn't mean that the moment she turns 18 that she is a baby factory, just that the BOS chapter she was in is a bit homophobic/"traditionalist" thats all

[untold socket]

Which they never forced her to. They wanted her too, I'm pretty sure it was Elijah who specifically did it - actually no wait that is what happened. It wasn't even the Brotherhood specifically, it was Elijah who pushed it using his position at the time.

[calm raven]

And it's not as if the FNV devs were afraid to touch on serious topics like that, as they did with the First Recon lady whose name I forgot

[untold socket]

Because he wanted to keep Veronica close.

[floral siren]

I just don't see the disconnect between what is reality in the game/shows and what fantasy world that OverseerAnna has built up

[upbeat pumice]

Yes exactly
The one crier from the Atomic Wrangler also gets close that topic
But like, that's another beast entirely

[untold socket]

Yeah, all the fiend related stuff. FNV gets pretty dark. So it's not like they wouldn't touch on it.

[heady berry]

Even then he lied to her as to why she left.

In fact, Elijah didnt like her relationship not because he wanted her to procreate, he did it to keep her from being distracted in her studies lmao

[floral siren]

and I don't think any of us here are qualified to unpack why two redhead cousins who want to keep banging immediately made someone jump to "veronica was a slave to making babies for the brotherhood as soon as she turns 18 fuck you bethesda"

[upbeat pumice]

@frigid shell sorry for the ping again but can you pleaaaaase respond whenever you aren't occupied with whatever you are occupied with?
I want to assume you are occupied with something hence the silence

[frigid shell]

@upbeat pumice oh yeah, sorry I got distracted with something my friend wanted me to do.

[untold socket]

I had to double check but not only did he lie, but he orchestrated it. It didn't come from ALL the Elders - Elijah orchestrated it, and it bit him in the ass when he left because Christine became his personal executioner.

[frigid shell]

My friend wants me to go do something with them, so I was getting ready to leave.

[lament lichen]

And honestly, genetic diversity was always going to be a problem in closed Vaults; Fallout 3 even brought it up with Vault 101.

[heady berry]

I'm surprised that Vault 101 made it that far without heavy inbreeding

Wait I'm dumb

[calm raven]

It's implied that inbreeding already happened

[heady berry]

I forgot they let wastelanders in, its been like 10 years since I last played Fallout 3

[untold socket]

Yeah it wasn't often, but they weren't opposed to letting Wastelanders in - I just don't think they were allowed to leave.

It was more like, once you're in, you're in.

[upbeat pumice]

Now if inbreeding happened in such a situation
Imagine a Vault 32 and 33 situation were they totally adverse about opening the door for more than 30 seconds

[untold socket]

To clarify that the Brotherhood specifically didn't orchestrate her relationship ending , and that it's heavily implied that it was solely Elijah .

"By far the only person with whom he had any kind of working relationship (but still largely terminal communicated) was Scribe Veronica Santangelo, his pupil. Elijah might have used his status to end her relationship with Christine Royce, so that she would follow him into the Mojave. Veronica was kept in the dark about the affair, and her reverence of Elijah only increased."

It was a tactic Elijah specifically employed to try and manipulate her loyalty to him .

[untold socket]

It also begs the question that - was it only Hank specifically that hated that his Wife left, or was it Betty, and the other Bud's buds that were in on it as well? The ones who were thawed out, anyway.
It does actually make me think - cause there's a vault or two in FNV that allow Wastelanders , or wanted to . I wonder how common it is ?

[upbeat pumice]

Vault dwellers are a dying breed

[untold socket]

Yeah , but if you remember - I forget if it's the Vault where the fiends take over or not, i think it is - there was that whole power struggle about letting in Wastelanders? Despite them being a dying breed, they were still severely reluctant, enough to where it bit them in the ass when they did.

[upbeat pumice]

Valid point

Honestly I just said that cause I like a good ole callback

[mighty scaffold]

It has the vault entrance opening sound when Hank enters it I think they did that on purpose

[shrewd berry]

vault 3 in Vegas where they were so nice and opened the door to raiders and got instantly killed

[untold socket]

Thank you, couldn't remember the number.

[shrewd berry]

i wonder how long ago that was by the time of fnv

[untold socket]

It also does beg the question if it's the ONLY underground Vault tec facility like that in the U.S.

[mighty scaffold]

Probably not

[untold socket]

The implication was that it wasn't long ago. Motor Runner confirms they just let them in - so probably in his lifetime?

[shrewd berry]

i wonder how they managed for so long, unless they had opened the vault for non raiders in the past

[untold socket]

Nah i think it was when opened it for the first time in general - and it happened to be for the raiders.
Which is why it was such a touchy subject and tense period for them before hand. Half the people wanted it open, the other half didn't.

They had no idea what was gonna happen.

[shrewd berry]

then the residents managed 200 years without anyone trying to enter

[daring mason]

Kiddo, is not obligatory overthink like that to share a opinion ☠️

[daring mason]

Fun fact:
Vault 101 besides no having an actual experiment
It end up doing and following all the ideas of china
(Without intentionally doing it)

Is a full dictadorship we're only the overseer has the last Word and they all to share and divide all the stuff

[distant glacier]

This fandom definitely suffers from it

A large part of the hate train exists because of the divide between what people view as the “originals” (interplay/obsidian) and the new (bethesda).

[lament lichen]

Though I'd argue the whole 'Shady Sands getting nuked' matter probably made things worse.

[distant glacier]

True

Constructive criticism is completely valid, but blatant hating is kindof silly. Especially when people hate the show for “muh bethesda bad”

I definitely didn’t like some things about the show (namely the shady sands ordeal) but i dont hate the show, and the thing is the show isn’t complete yet, so we don’t really know much about where it’s going to go beyond speculation.

[lament lichen]

Honestly, I'm in the 'very concerned but curious' camp; whatever in Atom's name is going on with House is admittedly.... disconcerting, but maybe it can be explained in a way that doesn't make everyone who did the House ending feel like a complete idiot?

[distant glacier]

And for some reason people expected the show to be completely 100% lore accurate and intricate, completely ignoring the fact that the show needs to appeal to a larger audience to succeed, and I believe the show does an excellent job at introducing the franchise to new people

[hushed cove]

Not a single title in the series has been 100% lore accurate

[distant glacier]

A super niche fallout game with the vibe of the originals and intricate and hard to understand lore (to the outsider) would be great, but it wouldn’t make much money realistically

[hushed cove]

show is extremely faithful for the medium it is in

[distant glacier]

This is another peeve about the fandom of mine, the fallout games themselves are a mess lorewise lmao

Its been crazy since fallout 1, retcons have happened ever since

[hushed cove]

Fallout 1 got the size of a holotape wrong within itself

[distant glacier]

Not to mention chunks of lore such as ghouls, where they couldnt even decide what exactly they were a result from or how they functioned

[lament lichen]

Shady Sands for instance has had a tendency of moving locations even between 1 and 2 if memory serves; it winding up smack-bang in the middle of LA honestly feels kinda accurate in that context, even if it makes the NCR states kinda weird if the state of Shady is melded into whatever state the Boneyard was in.

[hushed cove]

What I'm curious about, bringing this back to the show and episode 1, is who is Hank working for that wanted to destroy anyone on the surface if not the Enclave?

They added more threads to the motivation for blowing up Shady Sands with all of that

[distant glacier]

Im leaning towards some sort of vault tech-Enclave collaborator. Since they appear to be setting up a return.

Hopefully it isn’t just the enclave as the big bad, they might invent something completely new.

The vault tech lore is some of my favorite bits of the show so far, especially with the new facility that hanks chilling out in

Maybe another genocidal super computer is in charge, as per fallout fashion

[lament lichen]

Enclave coming in at the last minute in S2 to launch a round three, perhaps? Would be certainly one way to wreck any semblance of a victory for either the Brotherhood or even NCR, if nothing else.

One moment everyone's celebrating, and the next every radio starts blaring Stars and Stripes Forever.

[distant glacier]

I think I brought it up earlier, it’s probably unlikely but it’d be somewhat interesting if the enclave had sleeper cells or spies in the brotherhoods ranks, meant to sow dissent into the civil war thats being teased

Like if that new Paladin Xander dude turned out to be an enclave guy intentionally stoking the fires, hell, even elder quintus.

Since we know that the brotherhood is going to trade blows with one another

I have a feeling that Maximus is going to try and steal the cold fusion and defect, thats gonna paint a huge target on his back.

[distant glacier]

It would be a glorious opportunity to introduce some new power armor

Live action advanced power armor

[untold socket]

It would be amusing if the Enclave dove into their subterfuge bag. Especially with the introduction of the Secret Service being active via 76. It would be cool to see Enclave Spies and Sleeper Agents at play and manipulating factions rather than be head on confronting them in the past.

[lament lichen]

After all, the head-on strategy got them nowhere in 2241 and out East in 2277, so why not at least give a more sneaky approach a shot for round three?

[distant glacier]

I think its possible that someone that we either have already seen or have yet to see in the pre war scenes might end up being an enclave agent, or atleast a government guy.

[lament lichen]

I'd be curious to see who exactly is leading the Enclave these days; maybe they've learnt from Richardson and Eden in some regards?

[untold socket]

The way I rationalized it being Enclave - the shadow guy overseeing the meaning, is that the Enclave would need insurance that Vault Tec purchasing Cold Fusion was going to suit their goals. Instead of just blindly taking their word - the Enclave would shadow over them.

[untold socket]

Eden is unlikely, some have suggest Colonel Autumn because you DONT have to kill him. It's entirely optional.

Or Colonel Autumn's son.

[lament lichen]

Wouldn't Autumn be old as heck by 2296?

[distant glacier]

No matter what, The Enclave is definitely gonna want that cold fusion back one way or another.

[hushed cove]

3 was in 2277
show is in 2296
difference of 19 years

[untold socket]

Yeah, but Autumn's dad was also old as hell too despite him surviving Navarro. He lived and died in Raven Rock. Lol

[distant glacier]

The fact that the Enclave had to send out for bounties to grab the cold fusion from the doctor points torwards the idea of CIA style secrecy, they probably either don’t have the means or firepower to frontally operate around the wasteland, or they’re choosing to stay as secretive as possible.

They’re definitely doing shadowy shit behind the scenes regardless

[lament lichen]

Though maybe their new base of operations is in Chicago? ED-E's logs made reference to them having a base there in the past, and the Midwest has been very quiet lore-wise ever since Tactics.

[untold socket]

Yeah I agree with this. And it works well too because 76 hard-core confirms that Secret Service is alive and well, and even had children in their ranks. So I mean.

[untold socket]

Chicago is probably one of MANY. If I had to guess.

The Enclave has bases and bunkers all over.

[lament lichen]

Wouldn't put it past them to also be in Appalachia; place is isolated enough to maybe avoid the Brotherhood's notice.

[untold socket]

Yeah and with how the Brotherhood story is handled in 76 I highly doubt that Chapter lasts long at all.

[lament lichen]

Though it'd certainly be a bold narrative move to basically pin the rap for the Enclave's revival on 76 players.

[dusky flax]

I think that's what they're setting up Orlando to be really, the "Management Liaison", in the Whitesprings

And also MODUS is doing his own things too, he tried recruiting those soldiers that came into WV with the settlers

[untold socket]

The 76 players, story wise, are psychopaths when you think about it. The Reclaimers came out of Vault 76 and proceeded to make Appalachia their playground.

Context wise, idk if bumping the Enclave's numbers up is that much of a stretch when you consider the implications of everything else they do lore wise. Lol

[upbeat pumice]

It definitely is closer to LA but it is not right smack middle of it
I have concluded that it is somewhere in the Lancaster area
The buildings you see in the background are completely fictional, similar to those in Necropolis as seen in FO1

[tepid sable]

How high up in vault tec was bud?

[untold socket]

Bud was Sr. Jr. Vice President of Vault Tec, Barbara is higher than Bud - Hugo is higher than both of them. And Giles is assistant CEO.

[tepid sable]

Where does braun fit in the hierarchy

[untold socket]

None, he was just a scientist.

He wasn't someone powerful in terms of ranking comparatively to others.

Giles and Hugo had more power than Braun, rank wise.

[tepid sable]

Presumably being the scientist in charge of the vault experiments would give you at least some clout

Also is the ceo of vault tec unknown

[dusky flax]

Braun was definitely in the know and pretty high up in the foodchain

[untold socket]

He's not listed as a higher up. Even on the wiki.

[dusky flax]

He's high up enough for a ZAX to fake being him to get Hellfire armour from the Enclave

[untold socket]

and Braun's own wiki just says he's a scientist. Not an official high ranking member.

[tepid sable]

My thoughts exactly he was not just a scientist he was in charge of the societal preservation program and thus privy to all vault experiments

His names listed in all bethesda games in some way for approving vault experiments

[dusky flax]

The Vault he's in, in FO3 is his own Vault

[untold socket]

Right but again, it's in comparison to Barbara, Hugo, and the others - he's not as high as them.

I'm not saying he specifically has ZERO clout, but comparitively to the others listed as higher ups, he's not as high up in the food chain as they specifically are.

[fallow harness]

What kind of rifle did Lucy have in the opening scene?

[untold socket]

It looked like the radium rifle but I might be wrong.

[tepid sable]

Hugo didn’t seem that invest in vault tec outside of like a board member

[untold socket]

Hugo is literally a huge director of vault tec that brought in his own corporations to the table to support them.

He's listed as one of their Leaders.

[tepid sable]

By invested i mean interested in their grand plans, he seemed to just want to survive makemoney and do his own thing

[fallow harness]

Is there any sign of Dane so far in the new series? Kinda interested to see what happened to him

[dusky flax]

Braun is the Department Head of Future-Tec

[untold socket]

Dane was teased, yeah.

[fallow harness]

I saw a few theories on him not being a ghoul but instead a mutant

[untold socket]

Again, I'm not saying he had no power. He is not listed as a Leader, nor is he listed as someone who had as much power as Barbara, Hugo, or Bud.

[tepid sable]

I feel in pracrice bud probably had less real power than he thought

[untold socket]

I don't disagree with him being Head of Future Tec, but in comparison to the others - especially even Giles before he got abducted, he didn't have the pull that Hugo could in terms of hiearchy with corporate rankings.

[tepid sable]

I mean braun got his own vr system bud didn’t even get a robo brain XD

[untold socket]

He deserved the roomba, imo but I digress lol

[tepid sable]

I mean damn robo brain bodies exist

I wonder how many vaults got screwed by execs trying to screw each other over

[untold socket]

Plenty , I mean Vaults got screwed over by just average people fucking each other over .
Don't forget that one sacrificial Vault . The things they did to each other there was insanity .

[tepid sable]

I mean since braun can’t escape his own vr someone screwed him, bud seems to have been screwed out of better robotics

[untold socket]

They've all been pretty much screwed over, I don't think the intention was to keep them in power.

[tepid sable]

Vault 21 worked

[untold socket]

Yeah but that was because of House and his handling of Vegas in general. Less about Vault Tec.

[fallow harness]

The first new showing of steph makes her seem like a little power hungry? I feel like she’s gonna do something drastic in a sudden flash of rage later down the line ngl.

[untold socket]

Robert was very disinterested in the experiments, he wanted the money to use as a resource for his agenda.

[untold socket]

She's a Buds bud, so it would be in line with how those characters operate. Even Betty is slick af.

[fallow harness]

Also do we know what kind of robot was being destroyed in the pre war flashback

Maybe an earlier model of a robot?

[untold socket]

It was a model of Mr Handy I believe. If you're talking about the one the protesters were beating up.

[fallow harness]

Yeah

[fallow harness]

Ohhh right

[untold socket]

Yeah it was a Mr Handy model, unsure what specific one.

[fallow harness]

Maybe she finds out she’s a clone bud’s buds are clone correct? And has a mental breakdown either killing someone or escaping her vault and her vault either chooses a new overseer or has to merge with 33 again maybe Chet becomes the overseer

[fallow harness]

It looked like a earlier model one I’m guessing

[untold socket]

No they're not clones . They're people from pre-war who have been frozen in cryopods .

[untold socket]

It probably was , or just a very basic one - it seemed like a typical greeter type .

[fallow harness]

Oh so like a big scale of vault 111’s type stuff

Makes more sense actually

[untold socket]

Yeah , cause at the end of season 1 you see a young Betty talking to Coop before he's introduced to Hank.

[fallow harness]

I really hope we get to see vault 22

[worthy warren]

My theory is that vault 111 was literally just a test on how to construct vault 31 they kinda forgot about it after that and just filled it with people “just cause”

[untold socket]

Would not be surprised if this turned out to be true, lol

[fallow harness]

Yeah but there must’ve been more in the vault because if you read the terminals in vault 111 it was talking about a deeper part of the vault apparently

Do we think we’ll see the mysterious stranger lowkey?

[worthy warren]

Probably just utilities

[fallow harness]

Yeah

I need to play more Vegas and three I like exploring those vaults

Like the cloning vault or technically now Gary

So vault 33 is near a beach?

Maybe we get to see a queen or mirelurks soon

Two headed centipede? lol

Is there any new enemies (besides the khans so far) that are shown in the new episode

[untold socket]

More mutated creatures, yeah. I do find it very interesting about the Gulpers though because the Gulpers in the show look mote like Axolotls , compared to what we see in Far Harbor and 76.

[fallow harness]

I’m watching rn I can’t wait for the death claw man

Hopefully we see a bigger robo brain model

[mossy osprey]

Different regions have different types of animals with different names

[fallow harness]

True on that too

[mossy osprey]

Like mirelurks being lakelurks in the Mojave region

[fallow harness]

So we know any possible future references for the new episode coming out so far?

Also in the trailer or recap we saw Lucy with a power fist?

I wonder who she’s attacking it seems like a slightly modified one

[dusky flax]

We don't know what clip goes where just yet

[untold socket]

Legion will probably show up in episode 2 or 3, maybe.

[fallow harness]

I think the ncr and legion will be shown in the same episode

[untold socket]

Maybe , it looked like they were both shown when Lucy and Coop were separated. So maybe Coop comes across NCR, Lucy gets taken by the Legion.

[fallow harness]

Who knows we might be able to see boon

Aw man why does Hank get a golden pip boy not as cool as six’s tho

[untold socket]

While it would be nice, I'd rather them focus more on the current characters they've got going on, or introduce new ones. I genuinely think bringing in companions, or trying to canonize stuff about Courier 6 wouldn't be the best move. But I know I'm the minority in that department with that line of thinking.

[fallow harness]

Hank with a yo yo is a wee funny

Aw man I’m already done with the episode

[worthy warren]

The gulpers in the west are from vault 4

[hallow flint]

Yes the legion will appear in episode 2 and 3

[worthy warren]

I don’t think we know where the 76 ones are from

[untold socket]

They're in far harbor too

[frank ingot]

hes talking to house, both of who are working for enclave

[frank ingot]

at least thats my current theory, see quote

[frank ingot]

its probably the case that house is being fed partial truths, probably that he's building a spaceship so that humankind can colonize the space when in reality its the enclave

[trim niche]

Victor's VA returns.. it really is a christmas miracle

[worthy warren]

House doesn’t work for anybody

[frank ingot]

he will if he's made to believe its in his best interests, or convinced he's working for the betterment of mankind

[unborn zealot]

I really hope their not gonna reveal that the courier was controlled by one of those mind control things

I feel like thats what they're doing

[worthy warren]

House is a narcissist, he doesn’t give a shit about humanity lol

[solid moss]

Nah
It wont be anyways possible
For starters
His brain back at the black mountain

[distant glacier]

doesnt make any sense

and like martol said, his brain literally got plucked out, so the effects would be null lol

and the fact that you as the player can take actions that work directly against houses plans, IE: smashing his skull in with a golf club, blowing up the securitrons, etc

[jolly dust]

Thankfully, I think there’s close to 0% chance of that happening haha

[distant glacier]

and the obvious, they're going to be intentionally vague and either have a small reference to the courier or none at all.

It'd be like if Lucy and gang started going on a tangent about the Chosen One, it just aint gonna happen

[unborn zealot]

Makes sense

I still feel like someone important from new vegas will be revealed to have one of those

[untold socket]

This is under the assumption House had his personality change, and is willing to work under any single person. House's goal is to be on top. And he strikes deals, ones where he benefits the most or has the most control. There's no way he's under the Enclave in any fashion. Maybe working with them for access to some technology but he would never be subdued by them.

[untold socket]

Courier 6 probably will barely be mentioned. And there's almost no chance that the Courier was mind-controlled in anyway by one of those chips.

[solid moss]

And also
If the courier does work for house, why would he want to control the courier?

[untold socket]

Especially because in the ending, House commends you for literally being his best Agent - why on earth would he jeoprodize that, if he views you - The Courier, in your decision making, better than even what he calculated himself? Which he admits flat out.

[frank ingot]

this is under the assumption that house is small fry compared to vault tec and enclave, which he is. hes also not not immune to being recruited to vault tec's schemes like we see in the show itself literally

[tepid sable]

Did certain vaults have more active and clued in security because some of the experiments like 24s seem to Direct to just trick people into, or vault 87 where you would need thugs to get the messy parts done

[gilded bobcat]

Vaults vary wildly.

[solid moss]

Each vault is widely different from the other and each with its own experiment and are not connected with each other

[tepid sable]

Thats not the question though some experiments clearly can’t be as passive as others and thus would require more being in on it

[solid moss]

Well then it depends on which vault
The vault in fo4 for example where they do molerat experiement, they tested behind while the residents are unaware while some vaults like fallout 3 with vault 101 had a more clear sign of security

[tepid sable]

So i am direct experiments like 87 where they are actively turning people into supermutants, 4 and 24 where they were actively forcibly experimenting on people in ways that were not subtle or built into vault design itself

For example vault 106 only requires a few individuals with access to the ventilation

[solid moss]

The answer is still the same however
Its very widely depends on the experiment conducted and what each vault has done

[tepid sable]

Like vault 24 would require muscle to pull off whilst, vault 101 could be pulled off with minimal invovlement

[nimble bramble]

I wonder if the mind control implant can even work on a brain that's not inside the skull (OWB)

[tepid sable]

Brain controlled doctor zero

Just because i like rusty ventures voice actor

[untold socket]

It probably wouldn't, is the answer. Lol

[tepid sable]

Do you think the brain chips and the slave collars started from the same line of thinking ie one is a progression of the other

[untold socket]

Probably - the slave collars and brain chip operate similarily from the looks of it. But the mind control stuff is something the mesmetron device from Fallout 3 does - or as close to it.

So maybe it was both? Maybe a project to combine both in some way.

[tepid sable]

Sounds like big mt

[solid moss]

Except its house tech

Which means its gonna either work or from what we are seeing, failing so greatly that house decided to not waste his time on it

[untold socket]

Different companies, and as @solid moss said - it's made by House. House was an inventor, people forget. He made a lot of stuff.

[tepid sable]

The companies in fallout seem to share and or steal tech from each other a lot big mts creations are improvised from many others

Not to mention mr handys being inconsistent as to which company made them

And several projects being intricate collaborations between government and 1/2 companies see robobrains

[solid moss]

Well
House invents a lot of tech but house is not stupid
He takes over company and whatever they invent and basically improves upon them

So while yes
Not all tech are made by house
House at the end of the day is the owner of those very same tech

[tepid sable]

I am curious what robots dr 0 invented before he got obsessed with house

[solid moss]

Probably worked on some of house robots before house accuried the compnay he worked at or something

[daring mason]

Idk if people is imbecile or only the writers were

Cuz it wasnt never implied would be house who want to the bomba fall out

I'm pretty 100% sure "house is making bombs cuz he wanna bomb us out" from moldaver is just a pretext of what house is actually doing so see if cooper kills the Bad one who "owns My full life project!! Wah wah!!!!"

[untold socket]

It's more like people are just taking Moldaver's explanation as truth, when in reality, it's just her perspective and she's not operating off of the information we - the players of New Vegas have.
People also assume that because House's body double was in the meeting that he's cosigning and 100% on-board with Vault Tec when that's not the case because House believes he is the one and only option for Humanities progression.

[daring mason]

Funny cuz i actually took her explanation as one proof she being more obsessed with her project

Gg ass walter white
"You don't see? This is about me!!!!" Shit

[trim niche]

He's in some rough shape. (From Amazon.com page)

[daring mason]

Im in fear they are going
"House wants mind control chips so he can have free time workers"

If it goes for that
I would wished more being him Anthony house just going nuts rather house himself

Actually makes more sense Anthony house wanting to own a mental chip stuff, knowing he thinks everything and everyone was against him

[trim niche]

i'd rather it be anthony as even though robert's a narcissist that doesn't sound like something he'd do

[daring mason]

Yea, house is a dickhead but he aint Jack ma or elon

[untold socket]

They confirmed it's not Anthony.

[daring mason]

I'll rather Say, house is more like a rockefeller with a bit more humanity

[trim niche]

this

[daring mason]

We know, and thats makes stuff more shit

[untold socket]

It's a body double. Which makes sense because Mr house is based off of Howard Hughes who did the same thing

[tepid sable]

No but from context in universe house has his own rocket stockpile

[upbeat pumice]

Honestly I disagree
Were it Anthony it would be worse
Anthony would not even think about helping his brother turned worse rival

[untold socket]

Yeah, moldaver just didn't know what it was for. In reality it was for defense of vegas. But she thought he was gonna drop the bomb

[untold socket]

This is true, I actually think in cut content Anthony was going to kill house.

An optional way to disable Robert, was by finishing what Anthony started

But anything to do with Anthony working or being near Robert house just doesn't make sense at all.

[tepid sable]

Also in cut content house and ncr could play nice

[upbeat pumice]

This video is a really good explanation as to why it can't be Anthony
https://youtu.be/9P7eHmKIr3E?si=mqCKPGE2gTkcFpwm

[daring mason]

Yeah but it isnt that Bad as making "rich man evil"

[tepid sable]

Oh the two houses are real and double since the automation riots seem to have stuck from 76

[upbeat pumice]

No it is
That would be actual lore contradiction now

[solid moss]

XD
We are still arguing whenever this is house or not

[untold socket]

House is evil not evil in the way you're implying it. House is evil because he's a narcissistic and believes he's the best option for humanity, others be dawned. That is a clear distinction between him being stereotypical comic book, super villain evil

[untold socket]

It's already been confirmed it's a body double lol I think pan was saying it's dumb it's not Anthony

[daring mason]

I think it Even would been LESS psycho if instead of doing it with "frustated working class"
They tried with deathrow inmates or something

[tepid sable]

Anthony was a paranoid wreck according to mew vegas

[solid moss]

XD
I knew it was a body double
It made no damn sense when its anthony or some people insane assumption that there is no true house and they are all house clones

[tepid sable]

This is a thing that 76 leaned into
Insane ceos

[daring mason]

Yea, but he aint that evil further than the same point of bad side of yes man ending
"Are You really that good to lead us to the future?"

[untold socket]

Yeah but you're missing half the point. He's not frustrated at the working class specifically. He's frustrated because he believes the working class is getting in the way of human progression with their contradictions and unionizing.

[solid moss]

To be fair
House in some way is correct and wrong at the same time

[untold socket]

Oh no, I agree. LOL don't get me wrong, I was just explaining.

[solid moss]

House is right because techinally they are stopping him from getting the goals that he want to accomplish
However house is wrong because there is a very good reason why they are like that

[daring mason]

I think is kind of dumb implying house shitted on worked class with his invensions

[untold socket]

HE LITERALLY DID THO. He also views human will as the best and worst thing because he believes humans are their worst enemies. It makes perfect sense.

[daring mason]

At least how wanna point it out the series

[solid moss]

Its more like
I HAVE TO SAVE NEW VEGAS FROM GODDAMN NUKES BUT THESE DAMN WORKING CLASS ARE WASTING MY TIME!

[untold socket]

Yeah this too. Cause the riots and protests would take away from his goal.

[daring mason]

Actually something knight rave would said.

[solid moss]

Honestly
A respective crashout if that did happen

[untold socket]

He had to get it off his chest. Lmfao

"Whats 3 dead unionists? More will be here tomorrow."

[daring mason]

Imagine as if new vegas had this kind of replies from Mr house just like the "understandable" when You said NCR president wanna make You pay taxes

[solid moss]

That one a literal meme but its so good that i literally accept it as canon

[daring mason]

Like implying You took long destroying BoS mojave chapter due all their dumb mystique on tech

[bitter apex]

-# House also has tax cough cough

[solid moss]

House doesnt even bother to argue with the courier about that
I am sure he had to waste his time with taxes and all that stuff and he is a billonaire and hire an accountant but still has to somehow waste his time on it to some extend
Imagine what the working or middle class people had to with their taxes when some of them couldnt afford an accountant

Dude was like
Shit understandable, i hate paying that shit

[daring mason]

Being fair, i wouldnt like to pay taxes knowing My governament doesnt do shit

[solid moss]

Especially since he has to pay like millions and that money can be used somewhere else better

[bitter apex]

So why does House's character seem different in this

[untold socket]

Yeah it would be more of a nuisance but it also means that NCR would probably funnel more people into Vegas now that it IS their territory.

[solid moss]

Because this house is more pyscopath than the one in the game

[untold socket]

He doesn't, it's pretty on par for him if people are being intellectually honest about who he is and what he does.

[solid moss]

Seriously
I wouldnt be suprised if people didnt assume its house and someone else because the real house doesnt just go into the field, put brain chip and blow their heads off

But that the point
we dont know pre-war house
WE KNOW POST-WAR HOUSE

[untold socket]

No, I think House would. After what he knowingly did to Anthony? I assume House is like that.

[solid moss]

Post-war house was stuck in one place
Pre-war house wanst

[bitter apex]

It was the other way around, no?

[untold socket]

No, House knowingly drove Anthony insane.

[bitter apex]

What are you referring to here

[bitter apex]

oh I thought you meant how Anthony made sure that Roberto didn't get the inheritance

[upbeat pumice]

Nah
Anthony was scared shitless of Robert
Robert didn't mind him but just messed with him from time to time

[untold socket]

No , I was referring to his revenge.

[solid moss]

To be fair
Robert wouldnt feel as bad because that was a very dick move

[daring mason]

Yea, the minimal we know is just implied he was an excentric millionare man who at least got interest on the end of the world and prevent the city he half owns gets fully nuked

[bitter apex]

Robert was just two years old

[untold socket]

House knew Anthony was unwell, due to his inside person, and knowingly was specifically driving his paranoia and his schizophrenia until he presumably killed himself.

[solid moss]

We also know he invest or responsible for a lot of stuff in the fallout place

[untold socket]

Definitely the robots.

[daring mason]

I think house didnt Even care on getting rid of him, he actually went more succesful with RobCo than H&H

[untold socket]

Any robot really has a connection to House by corporation association.

[solid moss]

He was

[untold socket]

House did it out of spite.

[upbeat pumice]

Yeah because he eventually bought off H&H

[daring mason]

Yeah, but i feel he could easily just mock him down rather just paying a hitman

[untold socket]

And he cared because he put the H&H logo on his Securitrons.

[solid moss]

And?
I still would be saltly growing that happened

[daring mason]

Like, Anthony was like damn broken fr

[untold socket]

It was about spite and revenge because of the inheritance. That's the reason he bought H&H, and like I said he knew Anthony was unwell - and he knowingly fucked with him and made him worse.

[daring mason]

Understandable.

[solid moss]

Beside
House claimed he was very rich at a young age

And young people tend to be... irational with their emotions

[bitter apex]

if it really is the house brothers depicted in the show and not Mr. House but with different actors for some reason that means Anthony is somehow uploaded into the lucky 38

[untold socket]

They confirmed it's a body double.

[bitter apex]

What?

[daring mason]

Im son with half brother thing
And i can guarantee
It really pisses You off that Bad being threated like a "bad blood"

[untold socket]

They confirmed House is using a body double.

[solid moss]

It drove the entire fallout community nuts as they are debating if it a double or not that they had to state that its a body double XD

[untold socket]

It's been posted up and down in here the past day, lol

[bitter apex]

vault-tec meeting house is a body double?

[untold socket]

There's multiple articles etc etc

[untold socket]

Yes, the house you see with Vault tec is a body double. A fake. It's not actually house.

[bitter apex]

I feel like this is a sign of bad storytelling if they have to state it somewhere else and its not conveyed in the show

[solid moss]

No
I HEAVILY doubt it
Its was kind of clear but also
Its literally ep 1