EPISODE 3

[severe igloo]

the legion isnt romans, thats .. the point.
The legion quite literally dont know what rome or romans are

[alpine veldt]

He deliberately choses an antithesis as he doesn't know what the Hegelian dialectic is.

[trail sentinel]

No
The legion is because the legion literally dosen't know what its doing!!!!!

[crystal salmon]

No they had slavery because in their conception of the world if you didn't kill your enemy they owed you their life

[alpine veldt]

Not... really

Also, again, Caesar did it deliberately to be the opposite of the NCR because he has no idea wht he's talking about

he's the typical /pol/ user

[crystal salmon]

The legion has a need to rapidly expand and because of it they take slaves, they evolved from their tribal style of warfare into something more methodical and organised. And it WORKS

[trail sentinel]

It limps

[crystal salmon]

Obviously it's not meant to be moral by our standard

[alpine veldt]

slaves actually slow you down and make it riskier

[crystal salmon]

And I do understand there's nuance and irony in the way Sallow structured his idea of what the legion is supposed to be

[trail sentinel]

It isn't in the Fallout standard either!

[severe igloo]

it "worked" until caesar died and they fell into a civil war, as underlined by the show, lol

[alpine veldt]

Also the romans didn't actually take slaves unless they had to

They actually often allied with local tribes

[trail sentinel]

You have multiple people denouncing Caesar in NV

[alpine veldt]

which is the actual way to rapidly expand

[wraith jay]

Their enemies of… women and gamblers

[trail sentinel]

Allied, they built roads, infrastructure, symbiotic relations with them, often leading to syncretisms

Caesar's LARPers arrive to those same towns and just
Loot and rape and kill

[crystal salmon]

That's the tragedy of it, and the fault in Caesar plan in making the legion too much about a cult of personality instead of placing the foundations for an empire. He only thought whats good in the short terms and didnt have time to plan AFTER his death, which came suddenly as he found out he had cancer

[alpine veldt]

Caesar literally says he deliberately chooses his group to be the opposite to the NCR. The legion just gives them an identity to follow. He deliberately made a band of cunts.

They don't need to do any of that.

[wraith jay]

Good in the short term of checks notes raping people

[crystal salmon]

It's about making their enemies fear them and giving a motivation for his soldiers to fight in getting war spoils

[wraith jay]

And killing people who drink beer, for reasons I guess

[crystal salmon]

And also securing labour so that the soldiers can focus on training and war

[alpine veldt]

While also requiring a heavily armed presence in his back line.

[crystal salmon]

Drugs make for undisciplined soldiers

[wraith jay]

By killing half of them and starving the rest?

[crystal salmon]

The enemies you dont kill are those that tomorrow will rally against you

[severe igloo]

.. except you didnt read up on what the creators said.

"[I had] to write a character who had tried to present a robust argument for authoritarianism," he told PC Gamer associate editor Ted Litchfield. But now, after seeing the rise of fascist movements in the intervening 15 years? "I was like, could we back off of that now?"

"One of the things about writing fiction, if you're going to try to write it in a way that's not preaching to a choir, or that's not propaganda," Gonzalez argued, "is that you have to try to make your adversaries as strong as possible.

"If you want to write a story where one of your main themes is actually freedom, like liberty from tyranny, you can't just make your tyrants cardboard villains. You have to make them as substantial as possible in some way. That was really the driving force with Caesar, but occasionally I've wondered if that was done a little too well."

[crystal salmon]

His own soldiers? Idk what youre talking about tho

[alpine veldt]

You have literally no idea mate, I hate to be so blunt about it, but this kind of defense is just fetishism over violence and the dark ways we used to operate - it doesn't really conform to economic reason

[crystal salmon]

It has a context and a place and that's why it took place

[alpine veldt]

But you're ignoring when it didn't

[severe igloo]

you also have them mention it in the E3 2010 stage demo that caesar's legion is the bad faction of the gamne.

[crystal salmon]

The way society works has evolved and it's no longer compatible, but if tomorrow we were thrown into a post apocalypse wasteland, it'd come back

[trail sentinel]

And the fact that when it """"did""""
People weren't fans either

[alpine veldt]

And yet the NCR is fucking doing it mate

Do you know what makes us strong as a species? Fucking empathy

[crystal salmon]

never said they weren't the bad guys form a story telling point of view

[alpine veldt]

You alpha male apologists have no fucking clue

[trail sentinel]

WHAT

[alpine veldt]

You succeed as a species and unit if you play to everyone's strengths

If we listened to that logic we'd never have let Stephen Hawking discover a fucking thing

[trail sentinel]

MR. "THEY NEED TO DO IT TO LIVE"

[severe igloo]

.. you sort of denied that they are evil and pretended that they are evil out of necessity rather than design, they are evil by design, they are the evil group, as said at the E3 2010 demo interview, lol

[crystal salmon]

Humans seldom are evil for the sake of being evil

[wraith jay]

Yeah they just rape because they need to right?

[crystal salmon]

Like some will be, but most atrocities are committed out of a certain kind of sick pragmatism rather than just evil sake

[trail sentinel]

Machiavelli had disastrous consequences for the human psyche of some

[severe igloo]

unless you have a personality disorder like narcissism, etc.

That being said, the fictional group called caesars legion was written to be the evil faction, as said during the e3 2010 demo interview.

thats .. i mean thats a quote from the creators, i dont know what else to tell you, if you want to ignore that bit then thats on you, but there isnt much point in discussing headcanons when it goes against what the actual creators of the game said

[alpine veldt]

That and again, Caesar literally tells you he's deliberately evil.

I cannot stress that enough.

[severe igloo]

its one point to argue intepretations of certain story aspects, its another to try and argue that you know better than the creators of the game, for a tl/dr.

[crystal salmon]

you have to tell apart the necessity of having a villain for story telling purpouses from examining the motives and methods of the legion in context

[alpine veldt]

HIS MOTIVE IS TO BE EVIL

[crystal salmon]

His motive is selfish and self preserving because without it, the legion as a concept would fall and the tribes would go back to being tribes instead of being an unified military force

[alpine veldt]

He explains it as Hegelian dialectic.

This is where thesis and antithesis come up against each other and merge to become the true solution of synthesis.

But he does that by deliberately choosing the opposite and that's not how it works

[severe igloo]

there isnt any context to them aside from them being evil, then there are reasons that explains how they are evil, their leader says they are evil by choice, they enslave, they rape, they are sexist.

"No, actually, its deeper than that, they--" is a pointless bit to bring up since both the creators of the game and the factions leader say they are evil.

[alpine veldt]

He deliberately chooses to be an evil bastard

[mortal heath]

Bear and the Bull and the Bear and the Bull and the Bear and the Bull

[trail sentinel]

ULYSSES
BACK IN THE SILO

[crystal salmon]

You can't just will people to come together with kindness and empathy and hope for the best

[alpine veldt]

No, we don't, but they do

Time and time again, they do

[mortal heath]

Okie dokie

[alpine veldt]

It's real psychopath shit to pretend that it's necessary to do otherwise.

[crystal salmon]

It's necessary in the context

[alpine veldt]

No it's really not

[trail sentinel]

It literally isn't

[alpine veldt]

You have no fucking clue how Rome worked

[crystal salmon]

Even the NCR does shit like the bitterspring massacre, it happens

[alpine veldt]

Could they be bastards? Yeah

Did they spread by allying local tribes for ease? Yeah

[crystal salmon]

It doesnt need to but it happens for a reason that's more nuanced than ''ncr bad''

It's the duality of man

The khans started as a violent gang then developed into a community that did raids and sell drugs but they also do it as a way of life to keep their own community safe, that's why them and the NCR clashed and it ended with innocents being killed

[trail sentinel]

It speaks leagues of the man when rather than to tame that duality, or at the very least recognize it's non-alligned nature, they full on embrace that darker side and just become a pest for others
Caesar did that.
His legion did that.
And excuse me if I'm judging a book by its cover but if I'm being perceptive enough,
You are doing that.

[crystal salmon]

The legion is a militaristic society that came together only because somebody strong gave them purpouse and guidance

The purpose being war because it's the only thing they have ever known and the only thing that can make them into something more than their humble origins

[trail sentinel]

Breed a society from war
And the only thing you will end up with is apocalypse

Breed it from prosperity
And you will end up with longevity

[crystal salmon]

You speak from a point of view of somebody in relatively privileged position compared to that of people from another time or lifepath

Like I understand your point, the NCR is an example of trying to make the world better, even when it comes at a personal cost, because ultimately it is worth it

[trail sentinel]

Am I when others in that same time or lifepath also hold the same views as one does?

[crystal salmon]

But it's not always applicable or viable, sometimes you can't have that.

[severe igloo]

i think tis time to drop the topic and move on

[trail sentinel]

The basic idea of saying, hey
People should be nice to each other?

[crystal salmon]

We are definitely privileged compared to folks living in the post apocalypse or 2000 years ago

[severe igloo]

this has reached the point where its not relevant to episode 3 anymore.

Move the topic to #fallout_general if you want to continue the topic

[mortal heath]

I hope they check Xander’s body next episode to see if he’s a synth

[wraith jay]

Why would he be a synth?

[mortal heath]

‘Cause he’s from the damn Commonwealth that’s why

[wraith jay]

And the brotherhood has dna records of all the synths now

[mortal heath]

Supposedly 👀

[wraith jay]

That’s how they found Danse was a synth

[mortal heath]

I refuse to believe the Institute had all their eggs in one basket under MIT

[severe igloo]

this would genuinely be an absolutely hilarious reveal

it wasnt the commonwealth BoS that was after the cold fusion, it was .. the institute

[mortal heath]

Exactly, Harkness was just there to sow discord and steal the cold fusion and let Maximus take the fall for it

[mortal heath]

I like the idea that the West has little to no idea about synths other than rumors coming from Diamond City or something and so they’re like “… The who?”

[crystal salmon]

how would the commonwealth find out about the meeting

I like the thought Xander could be a spy or a double agent but also it deosn't necessarily make sense

Though also he only lasted one episode and it feels like a cheap pretext to force a civil war between western and commonwealth BOS

And as a plot device to make Maximus take the fall for it happening

[copper ocean]

Maybe East Coast BoS has spies within the West Coast chapters? Might as well keep an eye on those morons best you can.

[crystal salmon]

the thing is I imagine there arent lines of communication

the only way for the commonwealth to contact the other chapters is to send somebody physically as an envoy

They may not have the means to communicate long range

Chapters are independent from one another, theyre sent in new territory with a mission and the elder is trusted to carry out the mission. But when a chapter strays from their own original plan they're on their own

[copper ocean]

Which then poses the question of how exactly the EC BoS could 'punish' Quintus. Sending airships thousands of miles to the West Coast from DC/Boston just sounds like a logistical nightmare, and that's assuming said airships aren't shot down en route by any number of groups between DC and Area 51.

Or run into the same problems the Tactics airships did.

[crystal salmon]

if the cold fusion is important enough, they could commit to spending their resources to retrieve it.

The east coast brotherhood in the show is clearly advanced enough to manufacture multiple airships, a war would be costly and quintus is relying on striking an alliance with other western chapters to be able to resist

Like think of Quintus' chapter as an expeditionary force rather than an established organisation

[copper ocean]

House hanging around in VFW bathrooms to troll a pre-War movie star was not something I'd have expected to see; then again, if you had solid indications the nukes'd start dropping soon, who wouldn't want to check everything off your bucket list before you go into the active stasis pod forever.

[humble walrus]

I think he has weird fetishes

[crystal salmon]

I didnt understand that guy was house

[humble walrus]

Like wanting to be punched in the face

And later bang a securitron

[crystal salmon]

In the first episode I thought he was like somebody house hired to test his chip rather than him himself doing it

[copper ocean]

Though not many people'd probably have 'test mind control equipment on rando civilians' and 'get punched in the mouth' on their bucket list.

[humble walrus]

"harder, courier"

[wraith jay]

They literally use Morse code in season 1 episode 1

From east to west

[crystal salmon]

they can just like.. not respond

[wraith jay]

You were saying the only way is a physical envoy

That’s proof that’s not true

[crystal salmon]

Fair enough, I didn't think about them having relay stations to send messages through morse, it makes sense

[wraith jay]

A ham radio really wouldn’t be that hard for them to get coast to coast

[crystal salmon]

I was just puzzled as to how they'd find out about the cold fusion before even the meeting took place, it means somebody went against the elder and secretely told the commonwealth

[wraith jay]

The east coast already knew about the cold fusion they had a spy in moldavers group or the enclave most likely

They knew he had escaped and that he had an artifact

[copper ocean]

Still, a part of me kinda feels bad for House; can't be easy having your entire centuries-long plan fall flat on its rear because of random nonsense no one could've accounted for.

[untold elm]

@humble walrus House is beyond bisexual I think

He has something else going on

[wraith jay]

He’s robosexual

[humble walrus]

Legion fans when they aren't given a hundred hour long fictional history lesson about a 15 years time jump within a 1 hour episode with other plotlines (also whenever they see a woman)

[humble walrus]

Trisexual?

[untold elm]

Perhaps

[wraith jay]

Why do we think he is sexually attracted to men now?

He only has female sex bots

[humble walrus]

It's not trans people you gotta watch out for in the toilets, it's him

[untold elm]

Victor has a secret purpose

[copper ocean]

Might as well give it a shot before the world ends, 'cause it ain't like he could leave that pod of his afterwards.

[wraith jay]

Why would I need to watch out for trans people? Tf

[humble walrus]

Propaganda

[crystal salmon]

Why is victor hanging at camp golf anyway

[wraith jay]

What he’s always done, spying

[humble walrus]

Scapegoating minorities for late stage capitalism, the usual

[wraith jay]

Keeping an eye on the left over rangers, pretending to be broken so they don’t suspect anything

[humble walrus]

Maybe he likes camping and/or golfing

[copper ocean]

Some new scheme of House's, maybe?

Last one fell flat on its butt, might as well revisit the old 'nab cold fusion' plan with some tweaks.

[untold elm]

I haven’t watched the show yet but are there any references to the Desert Rangers at all

[wraith jay]

NCR rangers yes

[untold elm]

I would like to see a reformation of that group

[wraith jay]

Desert no

[untold elm]

[crystal salmon]

I think NCR rangers would return to being desert rangers after the collapse

[wraith jay]

They don’t exist anymore fam, they are all NCR

[wraith jay]

Few of them likely exist after the two battles for Hoover dam plus 15 years of post nuke survival

[crystal salmon]

The desert rangers joined the NCR yes but they only ceased to exist as a formal institution

[untold elm]

The Desert rangers weren’t forgotten in NV and some survived within the veteran rangers, now that the NCR is gone in the Mojave I could see some people coming back together to try and fill their role now it’s needed

[wraith jay]

Half were NCR rangers, half were desert rangers after two battles for Hoover dam, a prolonged war and a nuke there are probably like 2 original desert rangers alive

The rest would be second gen by now

It’s been like 30 years since they stoped being a faction

[crystal salmon]

They can always recruit more, it's more of an concept, anyone can become a desert ranger

[untold elm]

My idea of a desert ranger 2.0 organization would just be an upstart group that was inspired by the og rangers, maybe led by a veteran.

[wraith jay]

Who would recruit them? The 50 year old ranger that wasnt even 18 when the desert rangers still existed?

[crystal salmon]

Yeah

[wraith jay]

Seems likely

[crystal salmon]

There's nobody left to defend folks from raiders and mutants, someone will see the need for such a figure and form the new desert rangers

[wraith jay]

Or they could just keep being the NCR rangers we see in the show

[crystal salmon]

Getting recruits from local wastelands and teach them how to survive and how to defend themselves

[untold elm]

Funnily enough too pretty much every fallout game has some kind of group like this

[crystal salmon]

The NCR isn't a thing anymore, ncr rangers wtihout the ncr are just rangers.. they didnt lose their skill or experience just because they arent part of the organisation anymore

[wraith jay]

The NCR is very much a thing

[crystal salmon]

It's also how it goes in Wasteland

[untold elm]

Anyways not advocating for this to be in the show just a fun idea that could hypothetically work

[crystal salmon]

Or Mad max sort of.. the concept of a vigilante protecting the weak against injustice in a world without order reigned by chaos

The ghoul could be a desert ranger figure if he wasn't motivated entirely by selfish interests

He has the skillset of a ranger (and the aesthetic)

[untold elm]

Bounty hunters in 1, Regulators in 3, Minutemen in 4. FO2 has their version of the rangers that show up as well.

[crystal salmon]

tycho is in Fallout 1

[untold elm]

He is, though I was listing people who actively enforce some kind of “law & order” in the game

Chris Avellone’s Bounty Hunters will come after you if you kill any kids

Tycho is just chilling in Junktown till you pick him up

[carmine vault]

I wonder if houses tech includes some form of vr

[wild tapir]

They're was that cut vr sex pod as a female courier

[polar stirrup]

is there a countdown to the next ep?

[wraith jay]

31 hours

[copper ocean]

And there are eight episodes in total this season, right?

[outer stirrup]

Yes

[polar stirrup]

31 hours fuck man i wish they dropped it all at once

[spark orchid]

@humble walrus removed your post of an image with text of mr home for #rules 2 and 3. Be sure to avoid breaking those and other #rules in the future

[unborn helm]

And they're somehow the good guys...

[unborn helm]

https://tenor.com/view/what-gotg-guardians-of-the-galaxy-wtf-star-lord-gif-14341595309071764455

[chrome wagon]

No one is saying they're good, they're a paramilitary organization that removes agency from individuals and deems themselves as the moral arbiters of dictating who isn't and who is in the right mind to handle tech.

That's not necessarily a good thing. Not to mention, they have zero interest in rebuilding society. They don't establish governments, or communities.
Even in Proctor Quinlan's own words he describes Maxson ruling with an iron grip. Anyone attempting to say the Brotherhood is good, hasn't been paying attention very much.

[copper ocean]

Though there’s a difference between iron-fisted and incompetence LARP’ing as ‘hard men who do hard things’.

[chrome wagon]

I actually do agree with this. I just mean the Brotherhood's goal is pretty clear cut. They're dumb about it sometimes, but they're not the good guys of the franchise. Poster boys, for sure, but definitely not good.

Fallout 3 is the MOST humanitarian the Brotherhood has ever really been. Even in the recent episode, and the episodes before, we don't really see the West helping the Wastelanders

[crystal salmon]

it's not up to the brotherhood to solve the problems of the wasteland. Theyre morally grey, the bad things about them is they take what they want without asking because seldom wastelanders can refure

Theyre not gonna kill you, as long as you hand over your pre war tech you may have scavenged

[untold elm]

The Brotherhood hoarding technology mostly becomes an issue when they monopolize people’s best means of defending themselves, like throwing a hissy fit over someone owning a laser rifle. This is authoritarian and can feasibly get people killed even if not directly.

[chrome wagon]

I never said it was.
I'm arguing that the franchise has never portrayed them as 'good' or 'good guys'.

That's not even bringing into the discussion their racism against Synths, intelligent mutants, and ghouls.

[crystal salmon]

I mean... 99% of synths,and mutats will try to kill you

[untold elm]

The Brotherhood have mostly been a net good because they’re in a world where their enemies are literally insane and trying to end the world but in peacetime I don’t think they really have a place honestly.

[crystal salmon]

Sparing a thought about the 1% that won't can get you killed in such a context

[copper ocean]

If it was the EC BoS who were in control of cold fusion instead of Quintus’s pack of morons, maybe you could have a good debate about whether they should have that level of power at their disposal.

[chrome wagon]

I would agree.

[crystal salmon]

Quintus looks a bit like Elijah or Tywinn lannister

I wish he had been written to be more of a father figure to Maximus

At least it would sting if there happens to be a betrayal

[outer stirrup]

I’m gonna miss Quintus.

He’s definitely dying next episode

[crystal salmon]

I can see why he wouldnt want to share with the commonwealth, he wants recognition for himself and his chapter and would not reap any benefit from sharing the fruit of his research and effort

[copper ocean]

Though I’d say Elijah is 100% more intimidating than Quintus; dude survived Big MT after all.

[chrome wagon]

Elijah is also fucking psychotic, which is more dangerous than Quintus because he'd be unpredictable.

[crystal salmon]

Elijah is more resourceful, smarter, not necessarily wiser as he was.. eccentric

[untold elm]

Elijah also wants to turn the world into fallout: Dust, so yeah…

[crystal salmon]

thats after he goes crazy in sierra madre tho

[wraith jay]

Or were exposed to too many rads so they murder you

[wide cairn]

Why does everyone think Robert House is a weirdo? He's just a nice successful businessman who collects snowglobes. Anyone who thinks different is probably a pinko or worse still a bureaucrat.

[wraith jay]

It is very easy to tell what mutants are hostile or not, and they could easily deactivate the institutes directives to synths once they gain access to the institute

The tiny ghoul children begging for their lives aren’t gonna jump you

[crystal salmon]

you dont wait for them to shoot you first or lunge at you. The BOS will take potshots at ghouls but won't go out of their way to genocide them in the Underworld

The TV show BOS is a parody of what it's supposed to be like

[wraith jay]

The brotherhood in 4 want to murder Hancock even though he’s proven he’s stable and vouched for by the player

[wraith jay]

They literally murder most of Pittsburg because they were mutated and give the left over survivors no support

[crystal salmon]

Im not in a place to necessarily understand their reasoning.

[wraith jay]

The Pitt is literally written to show how terrible they are

[crystal salmon]

They either see them as different than humans, which justifies treating them as less than

[wraith jay]

Treating intelligent beings any different then humans is not excusable for anyone

[crystal salmon]

Or they are indoctrinated to do kill all mutations regardless, or both

[crystal salmon]

We treat humans as less than human

[wraith jay]

They are indoctrinated to see them as lesser beings, in an obvious parallels to real life

[wraith jay]

Who’s we?

[crystal salmon]

Humanity

Every culture

[wraith jay]

That’s bad, i dont do that and i dont condone it

[trail sentinel]

Nope
Not all of us are racist
Don't rope us in

[crystal salmon]

I think with mutants the issue is that the BOS shoots first before taking in consideration if theyre hostile, so that makes the mutants perceive them as such and hostilities follow

[untold elm]

The Pitt purge was apparently a good thing overall though.

[crystal salmon]

Literally every single human culture at some point thorough history did the worse atrocities

[untold elm]

Place is described as being even worse before that

[trail sentinel]

Not all humans had a hand on them

[crystal salmon]

And people are still very capable of doing that TOMORROW if the apocalypse fell on us

[trail sentinel]

Some people? Sure
The others? Idk

I don't necesarily agree with is generalization of "all humans are bad" you always put forth

[crystal salmon]

The others would be dead

[wraith jay]

Nobody is saying “these factions in fallout shouldn’t do these things” we are saying “they are evil and people shouldn’t condone their behavior”

[untold elm]

People should condone their behavior, true!

[crystal salmon]

Im being fair to them to put myself in their shoes and to think about why they do what they do, and I see a point

[wide cairn]

Isn't hating ghouls kinda the norm in the wasteland?
I also don't get why people hate on the brotherhood but fall head over heels for the NCR when they tried to genocide Jacobstown.
I'm pretty sure the NCR has done way worse things to people than the brotherhood has done to mutants and ghouls

[crystal salmon]

None of what they do applies to us because we live in a different society

Whats good for them isnt good for us

[wraith jay]

If you put yourself in the shoes of people committing genocide and “get it” you need to rethink your whole life

[trail sentinel]

You do understand however the fact that we as a species still do have empathy as like, a basis right?

[wraith jay]

It is the norm and that’s bad

[crystal salmon]

Well we "genocide" animals senselessy because of consumerism

Are we the bad guys? Maybe

[wraith jay]

I’m pescatarian

Fish don’t have feelings

[trail sentinel]

The first traces of civilization weren't spears or clubs
They were healing craniums
Healing that could have only been made by other humans

[crystal salmon]

You could just eat plants if you want to avoid all suffering if you see that as always immoral

if you can condone x suffering ,why cant you condone y suffering as well? A line should be drawn, you can argue where

[untold elm]

The NCR hasn’t quite institutionalized xenophobia to the same degree as the BoS, but yeah NCR fans are either misled by fallout 2 or selectively ignore instances when they do scapegoat minority groups (tribals, super mutants).

[wraith jay]

Is slavery and rape always immoral?

[crystal salmon]

No, but morality is subjective and relative to ethics

[chrome wagon]

Not really, no - I mean a lot of the aversion to them stems from the smell, more than anything else. They quite literally smell like a corpse. Which if you've ever smelt death, or a rotting corpse. It is unholy to behold - and I can't imagine being succumbed to it, THAT often.

[wraith jay]

Holy fuck

[crystal salmon]

It is immoral for a society like ours

Its not immoral if youre a roman noble in 50bc

[trail sentinel]

I do not like this one anymore Double

He has the evil on him

[wide cairn]

Sounds like pinko talk. Maybe go talk your ideology over at the Old Mormon Fort in Freeside, you'll be in better company

[untold elm]

Ghoul xenophobia doesn’t seem that much of a thing in the NCR, though the lack of ghoul troopers that aren’t rangers (closely tied to the NCR military but not the same) may be an indication of some discrimination still existing

The rangers seem much more accepting than the NCR military itself

Which is consistent with FO2

[wraith jay]

They have actively been going through civil rights movements for them

[crystal salmon]

Rangers are kind of a separate apparatus from the NCR military, they have their own hierarchy and commanders and work in along with the army.

[wide cairn]

The problem is, TV only people have only seen the rangers and the grunts of the NCR.
There's the Brahmin Baron, the Water merchants etc. Lots of shady shit, going on.

[wraith jay]

They have all the rights others do but face social prejudice

[crystal salmon]

Theyre much more wordly than the average ncr toroper thats why they may be more accepting

Youre going to be hardpressed to see ghouls in most human settlements

Cobb is in megaton only because moriarty owns him

[wraith jay]

And that is bad

[crystal salmon]

Yeah that is bad

[wide cairn]

Also in the games NCR at least have some predjudice against ghouls, you have to pass a speech check to convince an NCR trooper to not want to shoot a nonferal ghoulified trooper in searchlight, and then you have to pass another check to convince the trooper that it will be alright and he can go to the segregated ranger station where ghouls are allowed to serve

Also in the show when we meet the rangers the woman stops them and says something like "this ghouls an old friend", there's kinda a subtext that the twitchy fingered ranger might have shot any other ghoul

[wraith jay]

Yes but they do not have kill on sight orders

[crystal salmon]

most troopers wont have experience with ghouls beside the zombie kind

[wraith jay]

Still bad but not “kill all abominations even children” bad

[crystal salmon]

I think the BOS avoids the ethical dilemma by just not dealing with ghouls, good or not

[untold elm]

Ignoring ghouls is an ethical dilemma in itself tbf, especially when the BoS controls distribution of supplies like in DC

[wide cairn]

In a way NCR is way more insidious though no? Like trying to provoke Jacobstown to give you an excuse to genocide them through behind closed door deals with mercs seems way worse than just outwardly going "we hate mutants and ghouls"

[untold elm]

Broken Steel touches on this a bit but in that case it’s kinda silly because the water is a non issue anyways

[wraith jay]

They refuse to give aqua pura to ghouls

[crystal salmon]

Away from the eye away from the heart, ignoring the problem is sweeping it under the rug, theyre in their full faculties to treat ghouls with indifference

[wraith jay]

The lore is actually iffy on if ghouls need water

[untold elm]

Well I mean FO3 establishes ghouls can drink from irradiated water just fine iirc

So they don’t need clean water anyways

[wide cairn]

They also heal from radiation so why would they not want irradiated water

[crystal salmon]

I think ghouls need water but they can hibernate, also yeah they can drink irradiated water

[crystal salmon]

it fries their brain

[wraith jay]

Care to cite it? The underworld ghouls are pissed about being given dirty water

There are more contaminants then just radiation

[untold elm]

Yeah lemme look it up, going off of memory atm

[wraith jay]

Ghouls can handle radiation but not battery acid

[crystal salmon]

Most things that would kill us or make us sick isnt going to do much to a ghoul

[chrome wagon]

I think the difference is toxic vs dirty/irradiated water. No?

[untold elm]

I was under the impression ghouls have general immunity to diseases as well but ofc I may be wrong there

[crystal salmon]

What can pollutants do to a ghoul body that radiation hasnt done to them

[wide cairn]

I guess considering FO4 survival mode gives you diseases from dirty water, and applying real world logic its probably riddled with bacteria and other things

[chrome wagon]

No you're right, most diseases if not all the ones humans can get - they're immune to.

[wraith jay]

They are more resilient for sure but bleach will kill them

[crystal salmon]

Will the bacteria live in irradiated water

[wraith jay]

In our world no, in fallout who knows their radiation is magic

[crystal salmon]

Bleach will kill them but their organism can heal most wounds.. probanly bad if they drink bleach anyway tho

But its not like they can get cancer from drinking polluted water

[wraith jay]

Also, they probably don’t want to drink dirty water cause it’s gross and probably hurts your internal organs lol

[crystal salmon]

Or get bacteria, or parasites, or anything else that would make us throw up or poison our blood

[wraith jay]

Parasites yes they totally can

[crystal salmon]

parasites that live in their irradiated body?

[wraith jay]

The parasites in fallout are mutated by radiation too

Like the bugs that burst from people’s chest in 4

[chrome wagon]

Yeah like getting a disease still hurts, and it's probably painful, it's just not crippling, or gives the same symptoms. What a fatal disease would do to a ghoul would probably mildly slow them down. Where as a human it'd kill them.

[crystal salmon]

oof

[wraith jay]

They use Brahmins as host just fine

[wide cairn]

I mean in theory, ghouls can get diseases, but since they heal from radiation I guess that heals the disease no if its repairing cells?
Maybe its just bad because it sucks to get diseases

[chrome wagon]

yeah this is somewhat the idea.
At least from the bit of recontextualized lore they've added. Their healing factor would battle the disease, or if the ghoul has access to mild radiation, which accelerates their healing factor, then the disease wouldn't stand a chance.

[wraith jay]

The radiation would likely lead to going feral faster

[chrome wagon]

Not really no, not with the lore changes.

[wraith jay]

Didn’t nuka world confirm it

[wide cairn]

Here's a question what would happen if I recieved an organ transplant from a ghoul or super mutant?

[wraith jay]

You die probably

[crystal salmon]

your body would reject it

[chrome wagon]

The show and 76 have clarified this is not the case.

[wraith jay]

76 ghouls are different and the show has not

[chrome wagon]

No they operate the exact same. lol

They were made FROM the show. The devs said that outright.

it's why radiation heals you same way it does the ghoul in the show.

The LEVEL of radiation is what dictates your shift into feral, a little bit is fine.

As well as your access to drugs can stave it, too.

[wide cairn]

Isn't 76s player ghoul mechanicjust a flat rip from a player's creation club paid mod for fallout 4?

[chrome wagon]

Other way around.

The creaiton club content is a rip of the 76 version, with Bethesda's permission.

A little bit of radiation will heal wounds, just like it does in 76 and it does in the show.
And drugs help stave off your ability to go feral - just like how the ghoul relies on it. They operate the exact same, there's almost no difference aside from the 'feral' bar in 76 being gameplay related.

[untold elm]

Alright so there’s not a lot of info on that topic, but considering that the salesman can have a successful grift selling dirty water to ghouls and not be found out without player intervention this kind of implies to me the dirty water doesn’t affect the ghouls much

I assume pure vs dirty water for them is just preference

[cobalt sundial]

I assume radiation does have some additional effects on ghouls too, broad immunity would be pretty boring after all

[chrome wagon]

Yeah. It does, in 76 you may regenerate, but your feral meter goes down slowly if you sit in a pool of rads forever.

Which again, you need other things to also stave it off. The most effective so far is the drug the ghoul takes.

But in-game it's called 'The Fix'.

probably not the canon name, yet

[untold elm]

Seems like they’re only affected by FEV

[cobalt sundial]

Feral meter going down meaning you become less feral right

[untold elm]

Since it’ll harm them in FO3 if you spike the water

[chrome wagon]

NO, opposite, feral meter down = more feral, feral meter up = not feral

[cobalt sundial]

Ah okay

That's easier to remedy with other existing lore

[chrome wagon]

A slow consumption of consistent radiation lowers your feral meter.

[chrome wagon]

Yeah.

[cobalt sundial]

I wonder if the marked men have found their own way of staving it off

[chrome wagon]

Actually very good question, lol

[cobalt sundial]

They don't seem to be completely feral but they are definitely very, uh, intense

Supposedly they rely on their old traditions heavily to survive in the divide, maybe there's a psychological aspect of that as well as a literal one

[eternal locust]

I had to listen to this moron so you guys have to as well. Tell me you find politics in everything without telling me you find politics in everything https://youtu.be/aj5Umx98z5g?si=g0JU6ntWpgUdm66_

[wraith jay]

They love being victims

[eternal locust]

Honestly like bro have you ever played the game ffs

[untold elm]

The fallout tv show is very political

However considering this is synthetic man I’m sure he will spend most of the video complaining about woke casting decisions

[eternal locust]

Even better he complains about how they destroyed his precious roman slave rapists by making them idiots but Canon is they have always been nothing but idiot soldiers except for the higherups and Cesar

[polar stirrup]

theyre all grifters who just want attention

[eternal locust]

Like who the fuck thinks a quick death is more of a punishment then crucifixion

[wraith jay]

Crucifixion is known for being pure agony even after just an hour or two

There is a reason why jesus is portrayed as being crucified, it was one of the most painful punishments the Roman’s had

Burning alive is arguably better since you will at least die in minutes usually

[crystal salmon]

i watched the video now lmao

I actually enjoy it, he's right about the woke stuff

[crystal salmon]

Its political the wrong way

I don't want media propaganda preaching to the choir tell me how to think, I want stuff that makes me think and challenges my own beliefs

Thats how politics is done well in media

I don't want emasculating shows portraying male characters as chumps to make women look better in comparison

Im tired of the trite media trope of men being incompetent

[viscid yacht]

Homie does point out a lot of dumb things the average tourist fan won’t notice.

[crystal salmon]

we're tuned off these things, we stopped noticing

[untold elm]

I think the way the tv show delivers its political messaging is garbage and disingenuous because it often falls out of the realm of basic logic but I’m not threatened by the existence of staunchly anti-capitalist media either. If you want to criticize it for its political messaging’s impact on a meta level that’s fine but goes beyond the scope of good or bad writing imo.

[crystal salmon]

Often writing is compromised in order to pass a political message

And the message isn't really even that well done, it's just tha tthey expect you to agree with them and not question

They dont expect to make you see a new point or change your mind, they expect you to agree unconditionally which is what is annoying

And they want to depict a society that they wish existed even if theyre not true to reality with the way people behave

[solid moat]

Tbh, the show is geared towards people who haven’t heard of fallout before.
Like as an introduction, it’s decent enough. And that can be enough for some people.

[crystal salmon]

It will sell regardless, until it doesn't

I watch it because I like the IP not because the story is particularly compelling, so it is annoying when I see the misuses of the setting

[north bane]

I would argue the show is not even anti capitalist - the "good guy" capitalist NCR is shown in nothing but a great light thus far (which is way more forgiving than how FNV showed them). It's more anti-fascist, because that is what pre-war USA was

With vault tech, house, the enclave, being the echos of that past

[crystal salmon]

thats not been a plot point in the tv show though, the plot is that evil capitalists want to destroy the world to rule over the ashes

[untold elm]

You can argue it’s a form of anti-capitalist messaging. Of course because there are many forms of capitalist ideology. The show is certainly against corporate monopolies at least.

[solid moat]

Tbh, anything about politics and ‘wokeness’ and whatnot goes in one ear and out the other.
I just watch the show for the fun of it because I like Fallout.

[untold elm]

I think for the show corporatism and fascism go hand in hand

[crystal salmon]

Now imagine if the show could be good if they werent busy trying to tell you how to think

[north bane]

Typically fascism and that goes hand in hand; if anything it really shows fascism as it typically plays out. It's the capitalist class blatantly ruling the state

[crystal salmon]

Capitalism and fascism goes hand in hand..?

[viscid yacht]

I wish I had this ability to just turn my brain off and watch.

[north bane]

Not just "ruling" as they do now, but to the point it's overt that vault tech and the government's policies are one in the same

[crystal salmon]

The sort of capitalism that fascists dread because every revolution is funded by the capitalist class that has the money and influence to make change happen?

[north bane]

Which btw, the government is the enclave

[crystal salmon]

The class that fascist dictators try to oppress making everyone subservient to the state

[untold elm]

I’m not endorsing the showrunners, I’m just trying to parse their perspective lol

Take it up with them or people who align with their beliefs

[crystal salmon]

I just want to see like, critcisim about consumerism (which consuming this slop is after all), the banality of evil in bureocracy with people just ''doing their job''

Not like.. rich people are bad... told to me by rich people

[north bane]

Yeah they don't use that money to do revolution, well not that kind of revolution. They use it to buy out politicians to enforce their policies and let them make massive profits.

For clarification, there's many different types of fascism. The type of the USA seems to be in pre war is the "soft" type. They don't seem overtly racist, or hell even homophobic. They are however deeply anti communist and sinophobic. Their anti communism runs so deep that in fallout four, a pamphlet titled "What a Union means to YOU!" is "contraband communist propaganda"

these are all hallmarks of fascism - perhaps more of the military dictatorship pinochet type

[crystal salmon]

The burgeoise is the typical capitalist class that drives the revolutions

[north bane]

Well they drove the last one, the one for liberalism lol

Now why would they fund a revolution? They have their utopia

[untold elm]

But anyways the NCR being portrayed in a positive light seems to be mostly in highlighting their progress compared to the environment around them and their progressive social values imo. The show doesn’t even acknowledge the NCR’s form of economy.

[noble owl]

The thing is fallout isn’t anywhere near actually commenting on ‘muh bad capitalism’ so it’s not hypocritical for Amazon to be funding it. And Amazon doesn’t actually have any sway in what the shows creators do

It makes them immense boatloads of cash , that’s what they care about

[chrome wagon]

True, it's Bethesda, more so than Amazon, that was part of the deal.

[crystal salmon]

So theyre like.. making money for the very entity that embodies the worst traits of what they criticise, pat themselves on the back for the performative activism and collect the check

[noble owl]

Even with Bethesda it’s not a conflict of interest, the og game series is arguably way more anti capitalism and forward with its messaging

[viscid yacht]

The rioters beating up the Mr Handy and the bar scene feels pretty anti capitalist.

[chrome wagon]

I'm pretty sure Black Isle/Interplay admitted this. lol

[noble owl]

Yeah but there’s plausible deniability in a parody franchise

[crystal salmon]

Listen, it's fine to make money

[noble owl]

‘Oh they just hate being made jobless by automation’

[crystal salmon]

But like you're virtue signaling to me from a position where you're doing the exact thing you dont want me to do

[north bane]

And tbf, they are the best compared to their peers. I mean, that's not even a comparison. However, in FNV the NCR are an admitted allegory for the US in Iraq - sure, better than Hussein, but still destabilizing and basically every community in the mojave that isn't legion has very mixed feelings on them. On one hand, they would appreciate the stability and rule of law, on the other, they wouldn't want to be subjects of state totally unrelated to them

Tl;dr - NCR in FNV was far more gray

[noble owl]

If no one can ever make shows and movies in capitalism because it’s virtue signaling. We won’t get any fucking series

[north bane]

And their purpose in the mojave was far more about about profit than liberation

[noble owl]

The very necessity of shows requires it be made by companies which are by their very nature about making money

[crystal salmon]

Or just come to the realisation it's not about making money, that performative activism is pointless and just virtue signaling

[untold elm]

It’s very easy to pull anti-capitalist critiques from fallout’s setting regardless of the intent or not (looking at Tim Cain). Regardless of whether you would label fallout as anticapitalist or not big corpos like Amazon like selling us our own ideologies back to us, no matter of if it applies to them, because it’s profitable.

[chrome wagon]

Eh, debatable there - it was more about Expansionism than anything else. Especially with Kimball's blatant admission of it.

[crystal salmon]

Actually give me a critique of the paranoia and fear of communists in the US, about imperialism, about consumerism and waste of resources, bureocracy

[untold elm]

Expansionism has a profit incentive

[noble owl]

That would hit a bit too close to home today

[untold elm]

The NCR wouldn’t care if it wasn’t for the resources

[chrome wagon]

Yes, but for Kimball, he didn't make any money off of his expansion. In fact he was losing it, the NPCs echo this sentiment.

[untold elm]

Because he was in a deadlock with House & the Legion. The hope was they’d benefit in the future once the dust was settled.

[chrome wagon]

Kimball explicitly wanted the territory more than anything else, the resources, and money weren't primary objectives for the plan.

[crystal salmon]

The theme of capitalism making human labour redundant is an amazing concept to oxplore and debate, with how AI is changing the way we do certain things

[chrome wagon]

No this is quite literally before his campaign. lol

[north bane]

"Even those who would critique capital end up reinforcing it instead"

[untold elm]

What are you referring to

[north bane]

you aren't wrong

[noble owl]

Fallouts absolutely anti capitalist but it’s not its only message.

I wouldn’t want to get too bogged down In it because people will start calling it woke

[untold elm]

Expansionism is inherently for profit anyways, he has to justify it with some kind of profit incentive

[crystal salmon]

it is woke

[noble owl]

Yes but we don’t want them to know that

[north bane]

It's message is far more Hobbesian I'd say, it's anti capitalist in the sense "capitalism is shit" but it's also the best there is within the universe's context

[crystal salmon]

Capitalism is a resource allocation system

[north bane]

never once have they offered an alternative that wasn't a genocidal slave state

or I guess in the brotherhoods case just genocidal

Imagine china is revealed and it's just like, at the level of pre war america already

[noble owl]

I’d like to eventually see what China is actually like, like how many actually survived. Are there a shit tonne of ghouls because Asians have more of the genetic marker in their population

How badly did they get hit

[untold elm]

Oh is this about Baja

[viscid yacht]

China has a greater history of civil wars and factionism than any other culture on earth. Thousands of years of “my ruler is better”

[noble owl]

I don’t think we will but I’m surprised we havnt

Chinas broken up into a shit load of countries and then reunited more times than I’ve eaten a subway

[viscid yacht]

I hope so, subway is trash

[crystal salmon]

I rarely see people actually aim their criticism at the system that allows late stage capitalism to flourish at the expense of the citizen

Like massive tax cuts to corporations because of political financing

[copper ocean]

China always struck me as the fellas likely to be the ‘final boss’ of Fallout. Like, whatever faction reunites North America has to deal with a reunited China.

[noble owl]

What are you , a commie /s

[untold elm]

Cue everyone nuking each other again and Ron Pearlman telling us war never truly changes

[noble owl]

Oh fuck I got a popcorn kernel bit stuck in my gum

[untold elm]

Mucho complexo

[viscid yacht]

Makes sense. Modern fallout would make cross ocean travel a nothingburger issue.

[crystal salmon]

The whole thing that there's privileged groups in the US being granted special privileges or consideration from the government due to their access to resources for financing political campaigns....

[noble owl]

I mean it mustn’t be that hard, ten penny did it and he came from a place that was allready a nuclear wasteland

(I can say that because I am too)

[crystal salmon]

tenpenny might be a fraud, pretending to be british to give himself some kind of old money wealth facade

[viscid yacht]

Dude shoots people for fun, I wouldn’t trust anything he says.

[solid moat]

A bit late, but I don’t see it. At all.
Like, capitalism bad, at best? Ok, then. But even then it’s quickly swept under the rug for the Red Salad Man being dead. Rest in Piss, he won’t be missed.

[crystal salmon]

The show tells you that men are incompetent beta chuds

The only competent ones are actually evil

And women do everything better

[noble owl]

Idk where tf your getting that from

[chrome wagon]

Where tf

[crystal salmon]

Thats the checklist to be included in every modern media production lol

[noble owl]

Oh you’re one of them

[chrome wagon]

You spend way too much online brother. Holy.

[viscid yacht]

All the elders are idiots except the one woman

[crystal salmon]

Like the bald guy is evil kind of thing

The bad guy is always white

Unless its a woman, then its empowering to be bad as long as youre in a position of power

[chrome wagon]

No the Yosemite is an idiot for even being there to begin with. She's just as bad, and she came to the same conclusion as the other elders. She only backed out because the Commonwealth showed up. lol

[noble owl]

2 of the black women are actively morally bad or outright genocidal

[crystal salmon]

shes the only one rejecting the war proposition and the only level headed

[chrome wagon]

She agreed to it once she saw the Fusion cores. Did you not watch the show or pay attention?

[crystal salmon]

And theyre both strong empowered minority women

[chrome wagon]

Which is what all the elders did.

[noble owl]

One let rapist raiders into a vault of innocents and the other planned to kill the world

[copper ocean]

So that means she has a solid brain cell compared to the rest of Quintus’s haphazard coalition.

[crystal salmon]

Its a level of meta messaging that feels forced

[solid moat]

Lucy tried to be a Good Samaritan and got crucified for it.

[noble owl]

Yeah your just creating this issue that doesn’t exist I’m sorry

[crystal salmon]

Both empowering and theyre never really treated as actually bad

[chrome wagon]

I agree with this, holy hell.

[crystal salmon]

This issue is created the moment you use these tropes as political messaging unironically

[copper ocean]

To be fair, she went about it in probably the worst way possible towards the faction least suited to diplomacy.

[crystal salmon]

And it's the same in every new media I see

[noble owl]

If you go into a series expecting this because you’ve been told to of course you would

[crystal salmon]

Lucy didnt suffer any consequence for the shit decision she took

[solid moat]

Exactly. The Legion doesn’t really do diplomacy besides Join Us Or Die.

[noble owl]

Afterall there wouldn’t be non whites or ‘women’ in shows if they weren’t granted presence by the omniscient woke showrunners who just want to hit a checklist am I right

She got fucking crucified

[crystal salmon]

Pretty much

[chrome wagon]

[noble owl]

You were meant to say no my brotha

[crystal salmon]

It wouldnt be so in your face, you'd have something that matches reality

[chrome wagon]

He's too bought in, im afraid.

[noble owl]

You were meant to say NO

[crystal salmon]

it's actually kind of racist and sexist

[noble owl]

https://tenor.com/view/dust-baby-gif-13340866390804051027

[crystal salmon]

It's funny but in that video it pointed out how in such a diverse show

the only people in the incest support group are white lol

Thats a just a statistical coincidence

[noble owl]

I’m pretty sure there’s like , 2 black people in the vault lol. And both are busy dealing with mechanical issues that would kill everyone in there

[chrome wagon]

There's several.

[noble owl]

Mm I’m being that word that means I’m just bullshitting to make a point But I can’t remeber the word

[crystal salmon]

Hyperbole

[noble owl]

Mm that

[hearty ether]

No fucking way

[noble owl]

ALS the guy who plays reg is Chilean ancestry so not exactly ‘white’ in today’s American climate

[hearty ether]

I was told someone was being an idiot here i just had to see it to believe it

[noble owl]

I mean he could pass but I think he’s technically Latino if we want to be accurate

[crystal salmon]

I don't want every male role model to be corrupted into a chump

[hearty ether]

Are you...serious?

[noble owl]

You can’t simultaneously force it to be jsut men getting roles and then get mad when some men are not morally good saints

[crystal salmon]

She was crucified for one afternoon

[noble owl]

It was 2 actually and it only takes a few to die

[hearty ether]

After leaving the vault?

[chrome wagon]

She would've died if it wasn't for the ghoul my guy. And it doesn't take that long to die.

[viscid yacht]

Lucy probably didn’t learn anything from the Legion, and will act the exact same later on.

[hearty ether]

Oh shit im sorry I thought you meant leaving the vault

Yeah she was crucified for something stupid, what should he lesson be? Women dont speak unless spoken too?

[noble owl]

I don’t want the answer to that

[crystal salmon]

Umh.. dont try to be a smarty with rapists slavers roman larpers?

[solid moat]

I’m just going to call it:
You’re trying to find something that isn’t there, at all. The show isn’t as black and white as you think.
It’s extremely muddy at best, and it’s just going to get muddier and muddier.

[hearty ether]

She was put up there for telling the legion they are a bunch of inaccurate assholes whos cosplay was taken too far

[noble owl]

She’s a smartass with everyone

[copper ocean]

I mean, maybe they’ll have one instance where she acts a little different, but functionally acts the same, unserious jibber-jabber and all.

[noble owl]

Even when she’s wrong like the Caesar thing, it is a k sounding word

[crystal salmon]

And did she learn anything from the experience?

[hearty ether]

Why not?

[crystal salmon]

How her altruistic act led to her almost being killed?

[copper ocean]

Watch her try to mouth off against House.

[chrome wagon]

LOL

[crystal salmon]

Because they aren't going to be as nice as you? Because that's how you become a slave and life the rest of your life in misery

[hearty ether]

Like shes not the one being mean there? She was insulted first, literally sexually harassed by the 'Caesar'

[noble owl]

Her whole shtick is that she’s a naive goody two shoes and that annoys cooper

[crystal salmon]

She's meant to learn from this experience to be different than that

[hearty ether]

She just gave them what they gave her. And because they are massive assholes and hypocrites, theu crucified her

[crystal salmon]

That some people can't be reasoned with, that sometimes you need to take care of yourself and stay safe

[noble owl]

Yes but shes also the catalyst for cooper regaining his humanity

[crystal salmon]

No they arent hypocrites, except they would have actually hurt her for real

[viscid yacht]

It’s just funny how the scene goes from the slave girl getting her throat sliced, to Lucy being allowed to mouth of for 5 minutes, and not shut up until home alone boy has to walk away.

[crystal salmon]

they can do both at the same time

[hearty ether]

I mean, has she not done that?

Im sorru since you've seen all of season 2 early somehow and know she didnt learn anything, please tell me what is she going to do in episode 4?

[crystal salmon]

She hasnt, she chose to save that slave, who led her to be captured by the legion, and she couldnt save herself if not with the help of the man she abandoned

[chrome wagon]

They must've forgotten what she did in the Vault with the axolotls.

[hearty ether]

That event happens before the ome hes describing

[noble owl]

The legate didn’t exactly just not do anything, he didn’t gag her because she was going to get crucified anyway , he was just having fun listening to her chat shit

[crystal salmon]

The legate would have punched her in the mouth

[hearty ether]

And she did learn from that lol? She was literally losing her own feeling of kindness and starting to be more harsh

[noble owl]

They don’t often get vaulties

[crystal salmon]

Lanius would have disemboweled her

[hearty ether]

And those people weren't bad at all. That was the point. Did yall watch the show?

[noble owl]

Lanius would have done what he was told like a good little toy

[hearty ether]

Yeah too bad hes dead

[chrome wagon]

LANIUS would have. Joshua wouldn't, and neither would this current one. Do you even know the lore you're describing?

[noble owl]

Even ingame you can do some obscene trolling before Caesar starts getting mad

[crystal salmon]

Joshua was as ruthless, maybe not as violent as lanius

[hearty ether]

You forgot where the caesar sexually harassed her first

[crystal salmon]

In game you are useful to caesar and thats how you get away with doing the trolling lmao

[hearty ether]

Interesting, ignoring the man insulting her first and instead trying to frame her as a bad person.

Almost like you've got a bias against her lol

[crystal salmon]

She's not a bad person, she is stupid for doing something that got her almost killed

[chrome wagon]

Ruthless but he's not Lanius levels of brutality. Lmao He probably might've killed her, but again Legates can be different? They all do not need to operate on the same brainwave of how to approach someone.

[crystal salmon]

Obviously the legion is bad, I dont need to say that

[noble owl]

Yeah that’s her whole narrative shtick , she’s unbearably naive about the morality of everyone else

[viscid yacht]

Okay and? Does self preservation not take into effect when you’ve just watched an innocent woman get her throat opened?

[hearty ether]

What talking when not spoken to first?

Did she know the legions rules?

[crystal salmon]

Would you do that if you knew youd be killed for it? Or would you be like "But thats not fair..."

[hearty ether]

How'd she know shed be killed?

[noble owl]

Most people like to act like they’d do the right thing in a moment of terror, they wouldn’t

[hearty ether]

Your assuming she knows what you do about the legion. She doesnt know shit.

[crystal salmon]

She saw them behead the slave for losing her handler

[viscid yacht]

The woman who just died 5 fucking seconds before.

[hearty ether]

And that was a slave, not Lucy

[crystal salmon]

The legion just told her they want to rape her

[hearty ether]

She died for back talking them? Oh no she didnt

[crystal salmon]

Sorry if you genuinely thought somebody wanted to hurt you would you go and say "hmm actually.."

[noble owl]

Bros just taking all the fun out of watching a show

[crystal salmon]

Like the issue is the show hasn't written it as a plot to make Lucy understand danger

[hearty ether]

What? No theu wanted to do a roman practice with a virgin

[viscid yacht]

The reason doesn’t matter. It should be obvious don’t piss off the people who just kill on a whim.

The scene is a complete tone 180 for the sake of “haha Lucy is morally correct”

[hearty ether]

She clarified 1 thats fucking weird and 2 shes not a virgin. Then she mentions the cousin thing, and that send them over tje edge

[noble owl]

Her chatting shit back probably saved her from being raped before crucified , since they now knew she did the deed with family and isn’t a virgin

[crystal salmon]

Beside I think prima noctics is anachronistic and it's not something they would do.. on the other hand she might be forcibly married to a centurion in best case scenario and be a step above a slave

[noble owl]

They wouldn’t show it , but if we’re being ‘lore accurate”

[chrome wagon]

She died for losing her Legionnaire.

[crystal salmon]

Not how it would work if they werent brain dead

[hearty ether]

Maximus, vault 4, every fucking settlement... literally everyone shes ever met is willing to kill

[chrome wagon]

Even the lore disagrees with them, which is the more hilarious aspect of this conversation.

[crystal salmon]

Why cant they have 1 serious moment where lucy is actually in danger..? Why should I be concerned for her when she is always fine

[viscid yacht]

So she’s just aware she has plot armor at this point?

[eternal locust]

What woke stuff its cannon to the game like what?

[crystal salmon]

Even Maximus almost risked his life multiple times and it made me concerned

[hearty ether]

Oh yeah thats way too far off for the murderous super rapist cosplayers

[hearty ether]

No? People who kill others is something thats normal in the wasteland. She knows that.

[crystal salmon]

they wouldnt know what prima noctis is because it's not like it's a roman thing anyway

[eternal locust]

Thats sexual slavery thats not a step above what?

[viscid yacht]

Lucy doesn’t know this. All she sees is a woman getting killed for no reason, then decides it’s a good idea to ragebait them.

[noble owl]

Fallout is in a niche bubble where it’s like a super woke lefty franchise but has right wing chums somehow unaware. It’s like Star Trek for steampunkers

[hearty ether]

Thats kinda the point of the scene. Did you watch the show?

Ok golden i need you to tell me the name of the episode right now

[chrome wagon]

I genuinely think you guys miss the point of the scene, honestly lol

[crystal salmon]

Yeah.. I watched it, thats why it doesnt make sense to have it

[hearty ether]

Because I think you genuinely didnt watch the show at this point and just know some cliffnotes

[eternal locust]

Again the legion cosplays as romans they do not follow or know any of the doctorine of cesar

[noble owl]

Lucy rage baiting them is her thing. She’s a know it all because she grew up with access to history and computers

[hearty ether]

Then why the fuck would you make that point about prima noctis

That was yhe WHOLE FUCKING JOKE

THE POINT IS THAT THEY ARE HYPORCITS WHO DONT REALLY KNOW ROMAN HISTORY BECAUSE THEY COSPLAY

[noble owl]

She’s probably more well read than us because idk what the fuck prima noctis is and I don’t want to. Nor would it ever have been a topic in modern education unless you chose Roman history as a uni course

[viscid yacht]

I’m sorry the point of the scene is lost when the main characters are shown to be free of major consequence. Lucy gets her finger back. The ghouls leg is fine. Lucy gets rescued just a few hours after being crucified.

[noble owl]

Specifically to know it isn’t Roman

Lucy doesn’t get her finger back

[hearty ether]

Days

[eternal locust]

Shes more read up on it because the vault she was in focused on education and history compared to legion where all they know is eat fight fuck

[viscid yacht]

That’s not shown at all

[noble owl]

She specifically gets someone else’s rotten finger back

[hearty ether]

Uh when shes pulled off and can barely walk and is super thirsty and sun burnt?

[chrome wagon]

What? do you think she became sunbleached in a day??

[hearty ether]

You think thats from a few hours?

[viscid yacht]

In the Mojave desert, yeah?

[noble owl]

I mean it would be for me my ass cannot handle heat

[eternal locust]

She was in the camp for more then a day be fr

[hearty ether]

Mf has never been to California in his life

[chrome wagon]

To be that weak, would not take a few hours. It would be more than a day.

[hearty ether]

Yea

[eternal locust]

Three days prob tops

[hearty ether]

Id say 2, 3 might be a stretch tbf

It took a few hours to find the camp for Lucy

[noble owl]

Fast travel isn’t a thing so it would take at least a day for him to get from the camp to the rangers and back

[hearty ether]

Now imagine Cooper finding it while wounded and also fucking around to find the NCR while doing that

[viscid yacht]

There is no indication besides her condition that shows the passage of time

[eternal locust]

2 days without water

[noble owl]

Show not tell my dude

[hearty ether]

Yea, took more than 1 day

[hearty ether]

The day turning to night?

[eternal locust]

Golden got real quiet 😂

[noble owl]

They shouldn’t have to tell you with a title screen because it should be obvious

[hearty ether]

The sun...it goes down in the scenes. When Lucy leaves, its day. When she gets to the camp, its night.

When Cooper wakes up, its day again. We can assume this happens after Lucy is captured

[eternal locust]

So 2 to 3 days on the cross

[noble owl]

It’s then beyond midday when he sees the two camps .

[hearty ether]

It takes him most of that day to go out, find the NCR, etc. At the LEAST she was up there for a day

[noble owl]

Well over a day has passed since she got there

[hearty ether]

Again, did you watch the fucking show or not

[chrome wagon]

they didn't, or if they did - they didn't pay attention.

[eternal locust]

You have to @ him usedshogun

[hearty ether]

Because thats 2 of you bitching in here and yet not knowing the most simplest of fucking details presented in the show

[noble owl]

Oh also he spent time getting to camp golf

[supple grove]

@hearty ether Relax.

[eternal locust]

Explains why he enjoyed the grifter video

[hearty ether]

Sorry, it was rude of me to insult

[noble owl]

And again, in universe fast travel passes time in universe

In universe it would be like 3 hours minimum to get from legion camp to camp golf.

[chrome wagon]

That's why the Yosemite Elder comment floored me earlier. Saying the show is woke because women are shown to be intelligent, using the Yosemite elder as an example, who made the same piss poor decision the other Elders did? And immediately switched her tune, just like that?
It doesn't necessarily scream intelligence. Opportunist, maybe, they all are for even being there - but it's anything but woke. lol

[hearty ether]

My point still stands. I dont think either golden or pizzamovies watched the show when they are getting really simple details wrong

[eternal locust]

Yeah

[viscid yacht]

There is not a single nighttime scene. It’s daytime when Lucy gets to the camp. It’s day when the ghoul gets to golf. It’s day when he rescues her.

[eternal locust]

Its almost like in the post apocalypse people follow dog eat dog ideaology

[chrome wagon]

They don't need to show a nighttime scene to convey it's been days. Look at her face, her body language, the way she reacts - that doesn't happen immediately.

[eternal locust]

Bro you didnt watch it 😂

[viscid yacht]

I’m literally scrubbing between the episode on Amazon right now.

[eternal locust]

😂😂😂😂

[chrome wagon]

The Nighttime scene is irrelevant, her body language, and how weak she is, is evidence enough.

[eternal locust]

Alright so we can ignore golden and pizza

[noble owl]

In the scene where the slave hides while she’s left looking up at legionaries with torches it’s at least evening. When she gets to the legion camp it’s midday

[chrome wagon]

I don't mind engaging with them, it just seems bad faith. lol

[eternal locust]

It is bad faith

[hearty ether]

Tell me, is that night or day

[viscid yacht]

Okay but that’s before she gets to the main camp? That’s episode 2

[eternal locust]

Afternoon maybe mid evening 😂😂😂

[hearty ether]

Yet again you prove you clearly could not have watched this show to know so little about it

[viscid yacht]

It’s daytime again when she is shown to legate and Ceasars. So they had to travel, or they just waited around.

[hearty ether]

Ah fair actually

[noble owl]

It’s at minimum late morning when she gets to the camp with them . And she’s been up there for hours when the ghoul gets there

[hearty ether]

Still, she was up there for a while

[hearty ether]

Who said that?

[viscid yacht]

Literally before she was crucified. Fucking telling me I’m wrong.

[hearty ether]

I already said I was wrong on that. Don't gotta prove yourself twice.

Still, she was left up there for a good bit. Shes very tired when shes pulled down.

[viscid yacht]

But that could also be because they were shown to already be needing food and water. That’s the whole reason they robbed Novac

[noble owl]

Again, the ghoul has been walking all around the nv map

[hearty ether]

Either way, she also wasnt in the wrong so her 'learning' isnt going to be much other than not being naive and trusting someone

[eternal locust]

You cant survive for more then a few days without water you can last a few weeks without food

[noble owl]

It would have taken at minimum a day to do all the walking if we’re being generous. So she’s been up there at least a day

[crystal salmon]

It's a medieval myth, not strictly historical

[hearty ether]

Good job, you got the JOKE

[chrome wagon]

Pizza and Golden made the comment, let me find it.

[crystal salmon]

My point is that Caesars men wouldn't know about it

[viscid yacht]

Unless they changed the location of things around, which they are not above doing.

[eternal locust]

Thats the joke

[hearty ether]

Its almost like Caesars men are a bunch of hypocritical assholes

[eternal locust]

Its even funnier THE SECOND TIME

[hearty ether]

Its almost like they are a bunch of cosplayers who dont actually know roman history!

[eternal locust]

Crazy slavers and rapist are hypocrites crazy

[chrome wagon]

Here @hearty ether

[crystal salmon]

Why would they be aware of a medieval thing if they're Roman inspired

[chrome wagon]

And here lol

[eternal locust]

This is bait at this point

[hearty ether]

Because they are hypocrites and cosplayers.

[eternal locust]

Because they are cosplaying as romans same as cesar did when he left the cult

[viscid yacht]

She absolutely has a more solid grasp on things than Quintus or any of the other elders. Can’t deny that.

[crystal salmon]

Why would Sallow tell them what that is lol

[chrome wagon]

That doesn't make her intelligent. Any mount of grasp is undermined by her making the smae STUPID decisions the other elders make.

[hearty ether]

What in the headcanon

[crystal salmon]

Also they'd just do it but that's beside the point

[viscid yacht]

It’s not headcanon when she’s the one who backed out first and everyone else followed.

[chrome wagon]

No, she was the LAST to back out. She was the first skeptical. Did you not listen to what Quintus said?

[crystal salmon]

She's depicted as being smarter and more level headed than every other man in the room

[hearty ether]

So? It was a bad decision lmao

[chrome wagon]

The Alliance fell apart because she's the LAST one to go.

[hearty ether]

How dare a woman be smarter than a man and speak when not spoken to, am I right?

[solid moat]

So this is pretty much a Women Woke, It’s Bad thing.

[crystal salmon]

Hurr Durr women would make better leaders than men cheap political messaging

[chrome wagon]

Which is undermined, by her making the same stupid decisions, as the rest of the men. So no she's not really that smart, what in the hell.

[eternal locust]

Hell yeah high five brother 😂

[prime harbor]

[hearty ether]

Let's just go ahead and ask @crystal salmon are women objects or no

[prime harbor]

Can we chill out

[viscid yacht]

Why do you have to take the conversation off the rails like this? What a ragebait thing to say

[hearty ether]

Sorry

[eternal locust]

No one is intelegent except for honestly some SOME of the vault dwellers in vaults because the apocalypse does not focus on education but survival

[crystal salmon]

It's crazy to think of women as equal to men both in flaws and virtues, right

[hearty ether]

Its not going off the rails, im asking if you see women as equal. Because if you do, yoir complaint is meaningless and only exists because shes a woman.

[viscid yacht]

There was a time in Fallout when the brotherhood were intelligent, and had unique knowledge on pre-war things.

[crystal salmon]

You're not considering women to be equal if you have to make them as better than men in everything

[hearty ether]

Woman better than men because she came to a logical conclusion

[eternal locust]

Again pre war society the sects started to bring in other ideaologies and people in which is why the east brother hood still has a brain

[viscid yacht]

No you said the word objects, which has an entirely different set of connotations as equal. Check yourself man.

[eternal locust]

The east brother hood kept to the doctorine of the brotherhood the west did their own thing

[hearty ether]

Well if you see the women as equal, her actions therefore dont show her to be better than men, because shes equal to men and she just came to a logical conclusion.

[crystal salmon]

The east brotherhood is closer together so they can keep checks on each other I guess

[chrome wagon]

Which literally didn't matter cause the moment she saw fusion cores, she was onboard. If logic was actually at play, she would've stuck to her guns assessing that the Commonwealth would retaliate hard.
And again, she was the LAST one to leave. Idk if people remember what Quintus said, the reason why Quintus was upset is because she was the LAST Chapter to go. The rest already bowed out.

[hearty ether]

Its so funny no matter which way you argue your just a sexist for this complaint

[crystal salmon]

Western brotherhood is more isolated or have less resources so they adapt

[hearty ether]

Yeah exactly. These people just want to hate women icl.

[viscid yacht]

What do you mean? She’s the first to get up after she says “I don’t go for all this religious nonsense.” After his speech. Then everyone else follows

[hearty ether]

Ok so she came to a logical conclusion. The problem?

[chrome wagon]

Pay attention to what Quintus said after she gets up and walks out of the room.

[hearty ether]

Is women thinking a problem?

[chrome wagon]

Do you remember what he said, or do I need to grab the script/subtitles?

[hearty ether]

The woman is the first to back out, thats very logical. The problem you habe is she was the first. You just care that a woman did it before a man.

[supple grove]

!mute @viscid yacht 3h Rule 4 - user previously warned about being hostile in chat

[silver slate]

deviant1166 muted pizzamovies for 3 hours. Reason: Rule 4 - user previously warned about being hostile in chat

[prime harbor]

Time to move on from this weird back and forth

[hearty ether]

Yea

[chrome wagon]

Agreed.

[hearty ether]

The dude who didnt understand the legion is wrong was funny tho

Like 4 of us kept telling him and his only response was 'what? My precious legion? No they wouldn't'

[chrome wagon]

I'm more so curious if Culkin's character will actually be a decent leader, or if it will be more of the same.

[prime harbor]

I like culkins character

[crystal salmon]

Why would he stay in the show

[hearty ether]

You already know war never changes cmon

[crystal salmon]

I wish they casted Brienne of tarth as the legate

[hearty ether]

He looks like that one guy from inglorious basterds

[chrome wagon]

Legate Lecerta is an interesting title for him, tbf I do like him - I just hope he's engaging. Cause he's still got some scenes 👀

[prime harbor]

Real

[solid moat]

The Legion in the show at least lasted a bit longer than the Enclave. But I wouldn’t be surprised when they will be killed off.

[prime harbor]

Hes not the best character but his lines did make me giggle

Liked thr delivery

[hearty ether]

Who?

[hearty ether]

He does look like a smug nerd who wants to say hes not a nerd

[chrome wagon]

Shortking Legate. He actually did look commanding in some of the trailers, so I want to see if he can nail a bit of the aggression they've got.

[chrome wagon]

The tall woman who plays the female Knight in GOT

I forget the actress's name tbh

[hearty ether]

I wonder if the legion will be the big bad of this season

I kinda hope not because they are going to new vegas

[chrome wagon]

I want it to be the Enclave, but I just don't want the Enclave to be the same. 😭 spice them up, pls, i beg they have the potential to be interesting despite being evil

[hearty ether]

Best we can do is post apocalypse nazis

[solid moat]

Enclave Remnants had their 3 minutes of fame then were forgotten about.

[copper ocean]

Give us something other than variants of FEV killpeopleism that already have a success rate of 0% with both attempts.

Show us the Enclave are actually capable of adapting and learning from their mistakes.

[hearty ether]

I think the big bad is gonna be house

[chrome wagon]

Actually making FEV strains wtih Nightkins that can operate as stealth units would be cool.

[hearty ether]

So hank is gonna finalize the rat thing, use it to control people. Hes trying to put it on house to control him (and also on Lucy to make her go back and act normal in the vault)

Its gonna be shown that mr house has near full power of the strip

[chrome wagon]

I think Lucy will kill him this season, too

[hearty ether]

Thst would make sense

[chrome wagon]

i don't think Hank survives at all, or has any chance to

[hearty ether]

She goes after hank, learns that mr house and hank caused the wasteland by launching the nukes, and kills hank and mr house

The last scene would probably be her, Cooper, and maximus all getting back together

I predict a Civil war ensues cause of what maximus did, which leads into maximus being a traitor of the BOS and being chased after. This brings the fight to the strip

Then the end will probably be idk them going into ncr territory? Id like to see that

Like, northern ncr. Vault city baby

[polar stirrup]

i think hank will lead the BOS, since he can wear power armor

[smoky juniper]

it triggers me people dont realize legate is a military title

[prisma steeple]

haven't been this hyped for weekly episodes since Severance

[prisma steeple]

0 chance she murders her dad and she's already had that revelation in the S1 finale

i think S2 finale will be all
about Coop's frozen family and Hank/House

[alpine veldt]

Yeah they're definitely building up to that.

[mortal heath]

I sure hope Coop cracks open House’s tank and beats him to death with a golf club

(He said for the fifth time)

[smoky juniper]

i'm exposed to a lot of history since it's my 2nd biggest hobby after gaming and i've never heard of it until this show. that's how niche it is.

[pine panther]

It wasn't a roman thing it was medieval ages thing apparently and it also was rare, not wide spread like Lucy implied

Also apparently the legion does use the correct pronunciation of Caesar

For the roman period they base themselves on is when the roman language used a hard C and soft V's so Kai-sar is right

[alpine veldt]

Its not really historical, its cultural.

Or, more specifically, historical culture. If you focus on events and politics you'd miss it. (And even then its likely a myth)

I don't think it's that niche if you have a broad historical knowledge... hell you can even piece it together by working out what English words sound similar to the Latin... but if you focus you might miss it.

[carmine vault]

Hail kaiser

[cobalt sundial]

Correct pronunciation for seemingly the wrong reasons

[smoky juniper]

i would kinda question the validity of this tradition in a pre enlightenment society just off the religious aspect but also since marriage was a strict political arrangement. you'd be undermining the main purpose while also violating church law

[alpine veldt]

Yeah it's one of those things that's likely a myth based on victorians trying to make people sound like savages. Again. But it basically translates as first fuck so it's not hard to work out.

[smoky juniper]

and considering it originated in the 16-17th century which is when storywrights started getting popular its just more confirmation its a myth.

[pine panther]

I know zero latin but I figured out what it meant based on Lucy's first response

[alpine veldt]

Yeah it's pretty basic.

Also she's not getting married at that point so if anything it's more literal.

[pine panther]

Isn't it supposed to be like selling their virginity before they get married?

[polar stirrup]

the king gets to sleep with the bride first

[pine panther]

So then were they deciding which Caesar got to do that because otherwise it doesn't make sense why the legate says they're negotiating the rights to her prima noctis

Cuz like wouldn't it just be obvious that Caesar gets it

[wild tapir]

Ceaser doesn't like vault girls maybe

[polar stirrup]

or maybe gay

[alpine veldt]

Yeah it's supposedly the lords right to take the wedding fuck.

Its somewhat symbolic of the legion to have no idea what history they're referencing tbh.

[polar stirrup]

whole world has lost knowledge, lucy says caesar wrong

[alpine veldt]

She says it how modern English says it.

That's not really lost.

Its just a change in pronunciation due to language shifts.

[wild tapir]

Ceaser watched gladiator and was like let me base mv whole persona on that

[cedar lotus]

Who else is staying up till 3am tn to watch this

[summer surge]

I am not

[pine panther]

Lucy said she watched like 15 movies, does Lucy know the ghoul is Cooper Howard? If not I wonder if she's going to have a realization moment on that when maybe she hears coop talking in a movie that's playing and then the ghoul says something and she puts 2 and 2 together

[cedar lotus]

Prolly doesn’t expect it’s him doesn’t think it’s him and she’s not exactly expecting to be next to a movie star

[noble owl]

lets be fair, even if she had a suspicion its unlikely all things considered plus hes got a cowboy accent

hes only dropped it around her once , when maximus got knocked out. other times she hasnt been around, and that one time she wasnt exactly paying attention to him when he dropped it

even if she asks him hed likely say no. and she knows enough about him how he is now that if he doesnt want to talk about it he wont, and he only gives her enough info for the current context.

[copper ocean]

Maybe Hank’d reveal that tidbit to Lucy?

[alpine veldt]

Yeah it's been 200 years and she never knew him personally, only maybe saw him in a film.

You'd never assume it was him

He also probably hasn't even considered shed have seen his films, given its 200 years, he's probably got used to not thinking about that.

Like he'll think of the films but has probably forgotten that people could have like... seen them

I know the organ place had a TV that was working but that's gotta be rare as fuck

[wraith jay]

The ghoul sees zero reason to tell Lucy about his past

Lucy has seen pre ghoul cooper in a handful of movies on a tiny black and white tv

[hearty ether]

May have not been those types of movies

[wraith jay]

She has seen hanks favorite movie

The one we see being filmed in the show

[hearty ether]

Neat

[heavy wing]

I dont think she has yet connected the dots

Beside lucy is too optimised
She like
NO WAY THAT AMAZING COWBOY LEGEND AND THAT GREAT MAN IS ACTUALLY THE GHOUL

She is insufferable but in a good way

The kind where you know you were that at some point and laugh at your fault
Lucy is afterall what new players playing fallout are like
The ghoul is just us old veterans who play way too much of the game and basically are pyscopaths in nature

[summer surge]

she might in this season

[cursive flare]

If she doesn't figure out on her own, or the Ghoul doesn't tell her then Hank likely would.

[chrome wagon]

Lucy is very much the epitome of the optimistic newbie, right out of the Vault that annoyingly tries to see the good in everyone and everything.
It'll be very on par for her not to realize it or realize it WAAAY later.

[alpine veldt]

In fairness, remove game logic.

Would you assume the ghoul you meet randomly is someone you saw in a film once or twice 200 years later?

Probably not.

[heavy wing]

Nope
But...
Its hilarious that he apparently knows your father

[sick nest]

shouldn't he recognize him after he quotes the line from his movie to hank

she*

[summer surge]

no?

[zenith gazelle]

Alright gang let's take bets on what's going to make everyone angry this week!

The episode completely ignores the Brotherhood story?
The Ghoul fast travels to all the member berry locations for no reason?
We still don't see any glimpse of the full NCR?
Some irrelevant side faction in FNV has a minor change to their backstory?

[wild tapir]

He chould have just seen the movie prewar

[sick nest]

im not following

[wild tapir]

Coopers movies were famous

[summer surge]

no.. only the main cast can quote a line from a movie they're in

[sick nest]

yeah but im saying lucy should've recognized the quote because she saw the movies with hank

[wild tapir]

That dosent mean she should think he's cooper

[zenith gazelle]

Since Ghoul comma The is still called The Ghoul by Lucy, I don't think she's actually figured out who he is.

[summer surge]

well yeah, but you don't immediately think this ghoul is the literal main actor from that movie

[zenith gazelle]

He probably doesn't advertise himself as Cooper anymore. He's a different person in more ways than one.

[sick nest]

i mean he asks if hank still wants that autograph

[alpine veldt]

She may not have seen that movie.

[zenith gazelle]

Well there's probably only a handful of movies in the vault, presumably all the buds got to pick their favorites. Hank might just be enough of a fanboy to pick one of a handful of movies that get referenced multiple times in the show.

[wraith jay]

I’m pretty sure we see the movie from the show on the vault tv

[raven stone]

i do kinda wish they referenced this. Like lucy asking how he knew her dad

Because ofc hes gonna not give an answer but it would be an interesting scene

[zenith gazelle]

It'll probably come up in some dramatic reveal with Barb

[inner nimbus]

i think || the show not pointing straight at the dynamite 5 seconds before cooper blew it up wouldve made for better tv, perhaps it just be shown in the corner of ones eye if they were looking extremely clearly during another scene, say when cooper is talking to home alone guy, wouldve made the scene a bit more surprising and better imo ||

[alpine veldt]

I saw it as the show hinting he was considering it

But turns out it was his plan all along

it fits with how I see the ghoul - he's a good guy, always has been underneath. He certainly wants to be. He's just become jaded.

And that's something Lucy is gonna unearth over time.

[wraith jay]

She seemed too shell shocked about her ghoul mom to really remember anything

[inner nimbus]

I just saw it as him deciding fuck it, and his lines later just give it away, it shouldnt have been so obvious, i think it wouldve made for a really good surprise

[heavy wing]

how about fallout new vegas fans?

[alpine veldt]

They're always angry

and to be fair if I don't get a better NCR I riot

[wraith jay]

I am a a big nv fan and 4 hater. Love the new season

[chrome wagon]

I've mentioned this before, but I genuinely think he's playing up a character from one of his movies to cope. You can notice it when he drops his accent, and tone, too especially in the recent scene with Dogmeat. I digress. He's definitely jaded though - I wonder if he's grappling with being the man he used to be vs being the character he's been forced to become to survive and look for his family.

[heavy wing]

I noticed immeditely when he met hank
He dropped the hank and shaked his hank when threatening hank on where his family is

[wraith jay]

[chrome wagon]

[unborn helm]

In retrospect to the conversation last night regarding the Institute, I’ve come to realize just how horrible the Institute is written.

My error was using Bethesda’s bad writing as justification for liking the Institute. The wasted potential of the Institute and possibilities of what the Institute could be doesn’t make them any better. It only highlights how poor their writing is.

[carmine vault]

Which bit in particular

[zenith gazelle]

Bethesda writing ruins a lot of otherwise interesting groups

[chrome wagon]

You will actually find 99% of people agree with you that Bethesda wrote the Institute poorly.
I would argue that still, it's okay to like them - probably not morally defend them though. lol

[wraith jay]

The institute is the worst written main faction of any fallout game

[unborn helm]

Lack of overall goals, mainly.

[wraith jay]

I’d say even the RR is better imho

[molten hamlet]

I was gonna disagree but while the Minutemen are far blander they do still have more narrative and logical consistency

[chrome wagon]

Unfortunately, yeah the RR is better written and more cohesive. Not by much, but definitely better than the Institute.

[molten hamlet]

People defend them using the
“Things will change with me as leader”

[carmine vault]

I kinda think thats maybe the point just they lack big mts insanity

[chrome wagon]

Well yeah, that's somewhat of the Argument Zero made yesterday, which the whole server was pointing out. 😂

Like I can understand the train of thought, but it's hard to parse when Bethesda specifically write them to be someone indotrinated by their own scientific purposes that lack empathy and disregard for the Wastelanders themselves.

They do science experiments for the sake of. There's no end goal for it. They just do it cause they can.

[carmine vault]

Just like the think tank

[chrome wagon]

Very similar, but worse since Morbius actually tried to stop them - in the Institute, they're too big for one person to stop, you need an opposing Army to get rid of them.

Which is part of the reason why the Director argument doesn't work, the Divisions themselves actively will work against you. They're written to do this.

[carmine vault]

actually big mt is more dangerous from the wide variety of creations they have, the institute has committed synths so much its crippled their ability to do much else

[chrome wagon]

Yes but Morbius made efforts to limit it, the Institute doesn't. The Institute on a scale is much more destructive - and the only reason the Institute hasn't done more is because they don't have Enclave level resources. Which if they did, they would be arguably worse than the Enclave themselves because they simply, would not care.

[wraith jay]

Minute men is more boring the yes man lol, it has one character that matters

[chrome wagon]

TRUE.

[wraith jay]

Still better then institute

[chrome wagon]

God, can you fucking imagine if the Minutemen had actual structure and more unique characters, a cohesive army system. You got to tackle the gunners, the corruption, all of that.

Ugh. If only, I wish. They have the potential to be so good.

[wraith jay]

Yeah their lore is cool but none of it is part of the quest at all

[carmine vault]

Basically how i would re write their quest line

[chrome wagon]

Same, one day I hope for a mod to do it.

[solid moat]

Yeah, pretty much.
The Institute is more like Yes Man than the Minutemen, in that regard. People headcanon that since you’re the king of the castle, your word is law.
Except that the head of guard is plotting your assassination, the armory and peasants are fighting over metal from the forge for weapons or tools and your advisors are actively working against each other while also plotting your demise.

[carmine vault]

Perhaps a choice you should have had was to replace the department heads with loyal synths

[unborn helm]

What makes the BoS well written is because they have an overall goal. And the game uses the goal as a foundation for the factions actions throughout the narrative.

The Institute doesn't have a goal. So what basis are they using for any of their actions?

The people running the Institute are often labeled sociopaths because they don't care about what happens to the wastelands above ground, and that's true. However, that's a mindset, not a motivation. They have no specific reason to do anything above ground.

Why did they want to cure the FEV? Why did they commit the CPG Massacre? Why did they commit a massacre at University Point instead using more covert methods (why be loud and overt if they're isolationist)?

If they have no overall goal that they're trying to achieve, for the protag to hinder (or to hinder the protag), how can they have an impact on the story at all? Why are they in the story?

[carmine vault]

The university point one did have a point they wanted the data to improve their power generator

[wraith jay]

Yeah people often think when I point out that the brotherhood are racist shit bags that I don’t like the faction, I do like the faction they are the best written in 4 and always enjoyable to deal with in all games

[unborn helm]

That's why they were at University Point, but that doesn't explain why they committed a massacre instead being more covert with getting the data.

[wraith jay]

People think you can’t like a faction without agreeing with them morally

[carmine vault]

Desperation

They tried to get it via kellog first, could they have stolen it perhaps, could they have sent a better rep yes

However the institutes solution to all problems is throw synths at it

[chrome wagon]

Whether the Brotherhood are glorified arms dealers, isolated techno gathers, or an army, they've been pleasant to the game in terms of themes to add whether they serve as your allies or enemies. People either love to hate them, or love to love them - and both can be justified. Which is one of the reasons why I enjoy them.

[carmine vault]

I mean i enjoy caesers legion for just being so hard to agree with

[ruby gorge]

the Omertas are reformed from the Hisserfolk instead of the Slither Kin

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, the Yes Man in prototype builds kinda reinforcing that he'll kill you, or literally exile you if he decides one day he just doesn't like you is kind of funny, as well.
It's like you said, sure you're King but you have every fiefdom under you trying to undermine your rule, and have to always worry about whether or not you'll make it the next day. Plus not to mention, the other factions in the Wastes, too.
The followers being overwhelmed due to instability in Freeside and Vegas is a byproduct of your and Yes Man's rule.

[carmine vault]

Yes mans rule was going to be chaos just based on the fact two of the three families were already chaffing underhouse

[chrome wagon]

Oh yeah, I agree. But Yes Man enjoyers will argue they can fix the problem when it's not that simple.

[vapid patio]

Yes man ending is just OC writing ngl

[carmine vault]

It always baffles me in a house ending the omertas survive

[vapid patio]

its there for gameplay reasons not lore reasons

[chrome wagon]

Which is similar to the Institute Director argument. You can't really fix when the system is stacked against you from the moment you're in a position of power, and the people underneath have a facade in respecting your authority.

That's not even taking into account Yes Man turning against you one day because he decides he just might not need you, or that you're not doing a good enough job.

[carmine vault]

Well given justin ayo has basically exiled his own boss

[vapid patio]

tbh i wish NV did the morrowind thing where if you killed too many people or pissed off too many factions you just couldnt beat the main story instead of yesman

[chrome wagon]

The omertas can be good if they're controlled is the thing, but House's issue is that he doesn't clean them out. He should've cleaned them out and put new people in power in that specific family.

[chrome wagon]

I kind of agree, actually.

[vapid patio]

tbh whenever I do hosue i end up accidentally massacring all of the gammorah

[carmine vault]

The clan is too ambitious and ruthless i feel they will just try again later

[vapid patio]

Same with the tops so by the end of the story the only faction left in NV is the white gloves

[carmine vault]

The chairmen are like the only group not plotting against house

[untold elm]

House cleaning out their leadership entirely would have been a safe bet but I think he just didn’t want to destabilize the Gomorrah. He’s essentially unbeatable against the families once you give him the chip and he gets the fort securitrons.

[carmine vault]

The omertas went further with that chlorine bomb

[vapid patio]

peah but kill beny they start gjnning you down so you gtta defend yourself

[untold elm]

They’re not going to do anything like that again if they know they’ll be massacred. The men behind it were punished regardless, so House just sees it as the slate being wiped clean.

[wild tapir]

They are but benny gets stopped by you or legion

[carmine vault]

Thats just benny compared to how deep the issues the white gloves and omertas have go

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, this is probably his logical conclusion because if HE didn't fill the vacuum in time, someone else would. But I mean, in House's case, the ideal way to do it would to have candidates already handpicked and systematically remove the omertas and their loyalist, but again it would be messy and be unstable for a while. Said new heads of the family would have to earn the trust of the other two families, too, to be accepted so it's messy regardless.

[carmine vault]

Instead the courier puts cachino in charge

[untold elm]

It’s also probably notable too that the Omertas were an important part of House’s self defense plan, so removing them entirely before the battle of Hoover Dam would be suicidal and afterwards unnecessary.

House needs the Securitrons + Families to defend the Strip, not just the Securitrons, and the Omertas seem to be the toughest gang there compared to the Tops & White Gloves

[chrome wagon]

Yeah, that's what I mean is that it would be messy in the end regardless.
In the end, the more I think about the more it just sounds like hell waiting to break loose.

[heavy wing]

To be fair
He basically forced tribes working for him and are trying to battle their culture versus what house expects

The thing was that omertas were evil in nature and house weirdly decided that them being the mafia would be a good idea
Actaully why did house even gave them a mafia vibe with them

[copper ocean]

What is Vegas without a few Cosa Nostra LARP’ers?

[heavy wing]

But clearly house needed the omertas for SOMETHING
clearly because he is fine with losing the white glove society if you inform him about cannibalsms

[hearty ether]

Oh I got one! Someone will call this show trash because they dont go deep into the lore of where they are and instead try to tell a story

I am ready for the next sets of people taking something from a character known for lying at absolute face value and being confused when its likely that they arent telling the truth

(Victor)

[chrome wagon]

He needed the 3 families in defense in Vegas cause his Securitrons MK1s weren't enough. I think it's also because the Cannibalism from the White Glove society started getting out of control.

[carmine vault]

Possibly gomorrah is just so profitable

[hearty ether]

The omertas make a lot of money, I think thats why house keeps em

[chrome wagon]

Like I imagine if they were just consuming randoms from the Waste he might not care, but they started going after the NCR - which we know he needs for his plans more than anything else. so that's why he was fine with losing them, but at that point in House's storyline, the Securitrons are MK2. so he can off-set the loss.

[heavy wing]

To be fair
It far easier to excuse White Glove society as oh these guys are all cannibal so we had to remove them
Gommarah, you cant explain hidden weapons

[carmine vault]

Gomorrah is the busiest casino in game

[chrome wagon]

No but Gommarah is more of a crown jewel than the Ultra Luxe. It's arguably where majority of the NCR tourism goes to, so it means it's a bit trickier to deal with.

[trail sentinel]

So far:
Episode 1:
House isn't like that wtf!!!!1!1!1!
This is literally him punching puppies!!1!!1!1
Episode 2:
Brotherhood isn't that wtf!1!1!1!1!
They have been eating crayons for the past thirty minutes!1!1!1!1
Episode 3:
Legion isn't like that wtf!!1!1!1!!!1
My evil band of slaving raping raiders is not that evil!1!!!1!!!1

(Funny thing is, that as soon as the next episode comes people will throw out their problem of the week to hop on the problem of this week)

[solid moat]

I got one.
The usual chuds will cry it is “woke” over absolutely nothing.

[chrome wagon]

PIN this message now, im calling it. WATCH half these people are gonna complain Deathclaws weren't pre-war, and that Anchorage isn't portrayed like that.