EPISODE 4

[thorn coral]

this might be a bit of a stretch but i can remember at least a few dragon like creatures that decided to not listen to the hormonal boss that appeared in bethesda games

[flint yoke]

There's a few that flew around the region but we kill those first

[foggy apex]

[flint yoke]

It was the queen who was breeding more Scorchbeasts that we had to smoke out of her hole

[foggy apex]

Evicted her ass

Evicted then police brutalitied, what a night

[thorn coral]

I wonder if they will change lucys promotional perk deck for 76 after the show give her a slight resistance to addictions ( i would love if she stayed addicted for a while my prediction is she will untill she gets reunited with maximus )

[red dagger]

think the resulting nuclear barrage around the area caused some serious fire storms to rage across appalachia.

[foggy apex]

With a black powder weapon no less cus that’s all I run now and that’s technically cannon

[flint yoke]

Sippin on gulper juice moonshine and beating her to death with a rotory saw and blunderbuss

[foggy apex]

I have committed unspeakable war crimes

[thorn coral]

the quest that 76 protagonists do is canon and to some extend some gear is but keep in mind cosmetics and lengendary effects are a bit iffy

[still vigil]

She throws up in the episode 5 trailer

[red dagger]

yeah, that's one of the symptoms from the withdrawals.

[foggy apex]

No. Me blitz kreiging the scorchbeast queen with 4 ‘the dragons’ is totally cannon

[lilac drum]

We sure it not from eating human corpses?

Wait that is assuming if the theory of lucy of becoming a cannibal is true

[thorn coral]

we know that vats is a thing and SPECIAL does exist in the universe

leveling likely isnt I think the in universe "perk system" is closer to something like project zomboid where you can gain or lose some traits over time

[still vigil]

I doubt she’s just gonna start eating people lol

[thorn coral]

comparing what we see and hear ghoul do in 76 versus what we see in the show it seems like ghoul got weaker, my theory is he layed off just doing all the chems all of the time

[still vigil]

He’s old

[high latch]

He's probably still adjusting

Was down there for a while

[thorn coral]

probably, doesnt help that he keeps getting hurt for sake of lucy beacause he needs her alive to get close to hank

[still vigil]

Ghouls still age somewhat

[red dagger]

yup, they just age very slowly.

[still vigil]

Raul complained about his joints and stuff getting worse

[thorn coral]

we dont know for how long the ghoul was "sleeping"

[still vigil]

Less then 25 years

[thorn coral]

for all we know his actual combat experience is between 250 and 30

[thorn coral]

if it happened once who says it wasnt happening over and over

[red dagger]

I mean, considering he was buried in there for some shenanigans, I'd say he's pretty experienced.

[still vigil]

He would voluntarily go back to the hole

Nah

You don’t pull that trick on him twice

[flint yoke]

Tally ho, lads

[foggy apex]

Own a black powder rifle for camp defense, since that's what the founding overseer intended. Four super mutants break into my camp. "What the devil?" As I grab my deathclaw faschnact mask and black powder rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first mutant, he's dead on the spot. Draw my black powder pistol on the second abomination , miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors radhog, o have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the super duper mart loaded with explosive shot, "Tally ho lads" the explosive shot shreds two mutants in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car nukes. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. The sad bugger bleeds out waiting on the warlord to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding overseers intended

[lilac drum]

why was he in on the hole to begin with

[high latch]

Put there

[still vigil]

Pissed off dom Pedro

[high latch]

Pissed someone off presumably, don't think we know the details

[lilac drum]

Uhh
Who is dom pedro again

Is it the guy who is the mandalore guy and joel from last of us?

[foggy apex]

Mob boss thingy

[fresh garnet]

It's the gun I'm about to get in Fallout 76 lol

[foggy apex]

Inb4 Pedro pascal plays dom Pedro in s3

[still vigil]

I thought it was the name of the bandit guy

[thorn coral]

Dom Pedro is the ghouls break action revolver

[foggy apex]

I spent 10 minutes writing this

[upbeat citrus]

Dom Pedro's the name of the unseen character who had Cooper buried in the ground for 30 years while occasionally harvesting body parts from him.

[foggy apex]

Which grow back becuase why not

[thorn coral]

hearing abomination reminds me of the supposed to be tragic scene they turned into a joke

[lilac drum]

that sounds very very fucked up

[thorn coral]

"he tried to kill children"
shocked face
"ghoul children"
"aaabuuminations"

[upbeat citrus]

I mean that would explain why he hasn't decayed any further.

[foggy apex]

Unless he has no peen now

Dunno why they’d harvest a ghouls organs, they’d be incompatible . Unless it’s just to be a dick

[still vigil]

Dom Pedro is the guy who put him in the hole

[thorn coral]

maybe its to keep the ghoul weak and frail ?

[upbeat citrus]

I think it's just sadism.

[still vigil]

Don’t know why it’s also his guns name

[foggy apex]

If your in a coffin buried underground you can’t do shit

[thorn coral]

yeah it is, its like breaking prisoners legs every time they heal to keep them chained

[thorn coral]

well i assume if they are harvesting organs hes dug up in some way

[real moth]

The organ harvestets from season seld ghouls organs

[upbeat citrus]

Cooper Howard has been through some shit.

[foggy apex]

How did you find out my settlement doctors to do list ?

[upbeat citrus]

No, they sold human organs.

[thorn coral]

if scorchbeast liver gives you 5 endurance ghouls liver would give you 3

[real moth]

Ghoul ones where discounted

Also, indont think the cut apart thing was becesarly true, since he was dressed

[foggy apex]

‘Discounted’ Sure, they definately wernt selling them as human ones

[upbeat citrus]

Wait, are we talking about the ones in the TV show or some 76 shit I haven't experienced?

[real moth]

The thing is, maybe they work for gouls or something

[foggy apex]

The super duper mart

[real moth]

We dont know if don pedro is a ghould

[upbeat citrus]

My thought was that these stoners were the ones responsible for making the chem that keeps ghouls from going feral and the ghouls in the cages were Guinea pigs.

[foggy apex]

He probably is because there’s no need for a dom title post nukes

[thorn coral]

im trying to think of an in universe use for ghoul organs

[foggy apex]

Dom sounds like he’s an Italian mobster prewar

[real moth]

Don also means sir in spanish

[thorn coral]

and all I can think off is just a way of torture

[foggy apex]

True

[real moth]

Don juan, aka our version of casanova

[upbeat citrus]

Also, like, I love the Dukes of Hazzard reference in Episode 6 with "Sorrell Booker" and his inept sheriffs.

[foggy apex]

Tho its dom not don, idk if theres a difference

[real moth]

Hum, i remember it being don in the spanish doub

[upbeat citrus]

It's Dom.

[foggy apex]

Ingame the pistols called dom Pedro

Bethesda are cringe at times but I doubt they’d get their flagship charactors gun wrong

[upbeat citrus]

Pull up the first episode's script.

[real moth]

Maybe is supossed to be an evolution of the la guage or something

Same way the misspronounce some names in spanish according to raul, since the poncho of the guard is a latinoamerican thing

[thorn coral]

for real tho why was the fight between Maximus and Quintus equally tragic and hilarious and how did the writers get away with the same joke back to back between episodes

[foggy apex]

The ultimate revenge would be having quintus ghoulify

[real moth]

Im cheking and even the mafia seems to use don instead of dom

[foggy apex]

Have him be executed by his own chapter because of the rules he decries as unbreakable

[upbeat citrus]

I kinda lowkey hope the Caswennan exploding killed him.

[upbeat citrus]

"Dom" might be short for "Dominic."

[foggy apex]

Wasn’t that the sexists ship? Idk

[real moth]

Makes sense

[upbeat citrus]

No, that's Quintus's.

[thorn coral]

the fakeouts this guy pulled were amazing like the origins of bos got me pumped and then he went right back to his fantasy

[vast wasp]

Will we see dom Pedro

[foggy apex]

No I mean why would they shoot quintus’s down when it’s the woman who knifed him and the dude who shot and killed him

[upbeat citrus]

The Caswennan is the ship everybody assumed was the Prydwen because of a production error last season.

[flint yoke]

Maximus' line about how "I don't have a plan for this, things just keep happening to me" is still one of the best lines of the whole show

[thorn coral]

good question, i dont think its been used since ghoul vs bos batalion

granted we dont see ghoul doing much combat

[upbeat citrus]

The truth of it hurts so much.

[thorn coral]

true, I used to dunk on maximus a bit but i love this character

[foggy apex]

Maximus is the player who just keeps bumbling into the worst outcomes while trying to do the good karma ones

[upbeat citrus]

Maximus is the BOS player who's trying to be a good guy but ultimately ends up going either NCR or Minutemen instead.

[flint yoke]

Like as a player character we just kinda wander through events and make Yes No Sarcastic responses, but actually stopping for a moment to imagine what it would be like for a normal person to go through all this chaos is mind bending

Season 1 Maximus is a mayo sandwich, season 2 he finally brings the heat.

[foggy apex]

Lucy is the brand new player who’s never played a fallout game and is unaware of how bad the wasteland is . And the ghoul is the player on their 14 run through of new Vegas absolutely done with all the bullshit

[upbeat citrus]

The Ghoul is who we all imagine we're playing when we're playing New Vegas, period. lol

[thorn coral]

Lucy is the kind of player to start at 76, not finish quarter of the main story, never question vault tech and then play through fallout 4

and honestly i love the choice of characters beacause she is the perfect foil for ghoul

[upbeat citrus]

When I did my canon Fallout 1 playthrough I found it WAY too easy to have that character be as naive as Lucy until a certain point.

[hidden fractal]

I saw a comment talking about how Maximus represents when you fuck up the quest and get someone killed so now you have to kill more people just to end it lol

[foggy apex]

I want to do a 1 intelligence play through of 3 one day

[upbeat citrus]

Don't bother, 3 doesn't have unique dialog for low INT.

[flint yoke]

I don't think there's anything fun in 3

[foggy apex]

There is, the protectron in a school tells you the special class is that way

[flint yoke]

LOL

[foggy apex]

It’s worth it just for that moment

[upbeat citrus]

Are you sure that's 3? Because I never ran across a protectron in a school in 3.

[still vigil]

Maximus and Thaddeus Are both very emotionally relatable

[thorn coral]

i think maximus represents a kind of player to skip dialogue by spamming buttons and assinging their stats randomly, whilist lucy feels more like a kind of polished build as if someone told the person creating her as a fallout character what special to give her exactly

but both kinds of players never used the wiki and just have different experience overall

[foggy apex]

Pretty sure , might be nv tho. It was the 3 style of protection

[upbeat citrus]

I have given Thaddeus the nickname "Thaddeus the Chaddeus" because of all the bullshit he's survived up to this point.

[foggy apex]

It’s in one of the games that is 3d but not 76

[thorn coral]

I wonder how they will push thaddeus and maximus working as a team

[upbeat citrus]

I mean, we've seen them do it before.

[thorn coral]

but it wasnt rly maximus and thadeus working together was it

[upbeat citrus]

Yeah it was. Remember the Gulper?

[thorn coral]

thaddeus didnt know whos in the suit

[upbeat citrus]

That doesn't matter. They made a good team.

[outer iris]

thad is such a bro now

[upbeat citrus]

Now that they're both cool with each other again it'll be even better because they know what the other's good at.

What's really funny is that Thaddeus drove a T-60 like a fucking bumper car.

Maximus was better at it.

[still vigil]

Good representation of power armor training

Maximus special interest is power armor, probably read all the manuals

[upbeat citrus]

Maximus didn't even have training. Then again, you could say he self-trained by experimenting with the suit first.

[real moth]

I think that thadeus drove it that way because he was really nerviusz he cpuldnnot even talk right

[still vigil]

He knows all the upgrades and comments on them

[upbeat citrus]

True enough.

[lilac drum]

Maximus also techinally didnt know what he was doing at the beginning but overtime got used to it

[still vigil]

Thaddeus didnt get to run around the wasteland for a day or two like max

[lilac drum]

Remember thad has worn the suit for like what?
4 hours?
He really is just wearing it for cover

[upbeat citrus]

...I'm gonna miss that iconic suit of his, but I suppose the Ranger power armor would be better for him.

[still vigil]

He gets a better one

[upbeat citrus]

The Ranger PA, yeah.

[lilac drum]

"Casually get the T-51"

[still vigil]

How does the slow chat work why is it always different amount of time

[thorn coral]

exactly, and also this time they will be hunted instead of hunting

[upbeat citrus]

Dude, that'd be dope. But I doubt that's happening.

[lilac drum]

It used to not be there
Now it is

[real moth]

Power armor seems to be intuitive, but the ghoul said that maximus was using it like a begginer, wich means that training is probably to make a proper use of it

[still vigil]

I get it but I usually type in two messages so it fucks me up

[still vigil]

It’s intuitive the same way a car is if you know the general concept

[lilac drum]

Well power armor has been stated in lore to act more like a vechiele

[still vigil]

Easy enough to move but easy to crash if you don’t understand how to handle the momentum

[thorn coral]

seeing how Thaddeus uses it, i would say its probably just a bit more intuitive than a forklift

[lilac drum]

To be also fair
Thaddeus is also in a lot of stress so he making a lot of mistakes

[thorn coral]

a huge part of whats shown when people are in power armor is limted vision and thats kind of scary when you are driving a walking tank

[real moth]

I still dont thing thadeus is a good indicstor of it sinse he was fumbling everithing, inlcuding basic talk

[thorn coral]

i think it was more so to hint at the fact that you need to put some thought into operating PA

[upbeat citrus]

The exact words he used were "You drive that thing like a fucking shopping cart," which I personally took offense to since I used to be a shopping cart collector. lol

[still vigil]

I mean just think about it, you are walking on stilts and your arms are a foot longer

[lilac drum]

I think PA has good enough vision but once its not working
You are literally just as useless as one can be

[still vigil]

Less range of motion and harder to stop

[real moth]

Yeah, but in a car most people cant even take off the reverse, it seems more intuitive, like a bumper car or a golf cart

[upbeat citrus]

Bumper cars are NOT intuitive.

[still vigil]

The concept isn’t hard it follows your body movements but auxiliary functions and teqniques are hard

He’ll even just metal plate is hard to do shit in without practice

Falling over is going to be very easy since you get less feedback from your limbs

[thorn coral]

falling over in PA would suck

[still vigil]

And you are now super top heavy

[upbeat citrus]

Just ask Coop, he has experience.

Falling over in PA is like being a turtle stuck on its back.

[lilac drum]

That is probably why he never look like he will use PA ever

[thorn coral]

im glad they showed us that tbh

[lilac drum]

and tbf
he had first hand experience with the power armor issues
And he really must hate it

Also tbf
Using power armor in the wasteland is 100% for protection and the ghoul is already durable enough so he doesnt need it

[open rampart]

I

[upbeat citrus]

Oh yeah. I don't think he even got to wear a suit of T-51.

[open rampart]

Ok. Why 15 instead of 10?

[lilac drum]

The suit was used in 2076 so he couldnt use it

[still vigil]

Pissing me off lol

[thorn coral]

I think it might also be ptsd

[still vigil]

The flashback is probably 2073 or so at the latest

[thorn coral]

who knows how many people Coop seen die due to mistakes in the design of eggheads

[lilac drum]

T-45 was deployed pretty early in the war so lets that date is a good guess when he used it

[thorn coral]

from what we see in fallouts universe engineering is not tested in practice we see it with a ton of gear

[upbeat citrus]

Over the last 200 years? Hoo boy. Take a seat, this'll take a while...

[still vigil]

Was his daughter alive while he was at war?

[thorn coral]

I did an analysis of the power armor design in games and in the show and came to the conclusion that the chest piece welding flaw is not even that far off or stupid

considering there are some spots that literally have barely any armor and just rely on the plate being at the right place at the right time

[lilac drum]

...
the daughetr was alive while he was not in the army and is present in the flashbacks so...

[still vigil]

What?

[upbeat citrus]

Marines, not Army.

[thorn coral]

Also it was foreshadowed in episode 2 when he tried to kill maximus this way

[still vigil]

His daughter was like 12 at the oldest when the nuke dropped is my best guess

[lilac drum]

It was a joke because you said was her daughter alive while he was at war
And i know you meant born but alive makes it sound like she died and came back from the dead

[upbeat citrus]

I don't think he wanted to kill Maximus. If he really wanted Maximus dead he could have taken him out instantly.

[still vigil]

People that haven’t been born aren’t alive

[lilac drum]

And tbf
He literally witnessed maximus not being great with Power armor and just knew he had to have his fun
The man is just having fun the whole time

[thorn coral]

there is a part of that fight where he shoots specifically at the bottom part of the chest piece

[novel geyser]

in the war scene against China was deathclaw the world’s first non-human or non-animal creature?
cuz Howard didn’t seem so surprised or shocked

[still vigil]

Probably not the first but first he had seen

[upbeat citrus]

But we know he's a crack shot and it didn't hit the actual weak point.

[still vigil]

They were all secret before the war but some existed

[novel geyser]

yeah that makes sense

[upbeat citrus]

What do you mean? He was scared shitless.

[thorn coral]

another theory that i have is he was simply trying to make him puke

[still vigil]

He seemed pretty fucking shocked

[old jetty]

I think he probably had heard of deathclaws in passing but brushed it off as nothing serious and this was the first time he ever truly saw and understood what it was

[still vigil]

They were definitely top secret and need to know

[upbeat citrus]

Charlie had a cover story for that event at the party.

[novel geyser]

i expected him to say smth like "what the hell is that"
could’ve made it more obvious that its his first time seeing a new creature

[upbeat citrus]

Dude, he didn't need to say anything. His face spoke for him.

[thorn coral]

if you make a character try to hide fear thats the best way to show fear to the audience

[upbeat citrus]

He had "What the mother-fucking-fuck is that demon thing?!" plastered all over it.

[still vigil]

I don’t think it’s the same situation

[thorn coral]

if the character says they fear something, its like talking down to audience

[upbeat citrus]

Really? Because the situation involved fire and three Chinese soldiers.

[still vigil]

He say he killed 3 men to save cooper to cooper in private when they would both know the truth

[novel geyser]

true

[still vigil]

Unless he killed 3 different Chinese a minute later

[upbeat citrus]

There were still people around to overhear.

[still vigil]

So it isn’t really a cover story

It’s the truth missing a detail

[upbeat citrus]

Well it is. Charlie claims HE killed the three Chinese. But that's not the case. The deathclaw did.

[still vigil]

Why would he use the cover story to cooper in private

[upbeat citrus]

They were not alone.

There were still people nearby who could overhear the conversation.

[still vigil]

That makes no sense

He could have just given it to him without saying that then, he clearly feels remorse for killing people

[upbeat citrus]

But then how would we know to connect the dots when THIS scene comes up later?

[still vigil]

Taking away from his character saying he didn’t kill anyone

Having to kill is part of why he became a sympathizer

[old jetty]

Tbf Charlie has probably killed more people than that

[still vigil]

It could be the same event but he killed 3 men that day

[upbeat citrus]

Also, Charlie and Coop are probably under orders to NEVER mention the deathclaw in public. So they concocted that cover story.

[still vigil]

He didn’t need to whisper his cover story to cooper to sell it he could have just said. Nothing

Your theory makes zero sense if he had said it during the speach yeah but not just to cooper where Sombody may have heard him

Making his character 2d and removing much of his motive to connect two things that don’t need to be connected

[upbeat citrus]

Explain to me then how the setup for the deathclaw attack is virtually identical. Fire. Three Chinese soldiers. Malfunctioning POS T-45s and Cooper lying down.

I don't think you understand how cover-ups work.

[still vigil]

Yeah people don’t discuss the cover up in private convos if that was the cover up he would have said it in public for people to hear or not at all

[upbeat citrus]

It wasn't a private convo, for the hundredth time.

There were still people around them.

[worthy monolith]

What the fucking fuck did I just wander into

[still vigil]

“Hey cooper I’m gonna talk quietly to you in the corner and discuss the official cover up narrative incase Sombody random who doubts us might be nearby”

[upbeat citrus]

Charlie was just trying to get Cooper to finally decide to kill House.

He could tell Cooper was still having second thoughts so he said what he said to put the nail in the coffin.

[still vigil]

He could have said, I saved your life but I wasn’t a hero that day and it would make sense

[upbeat citrus]

Not to the viewer.

[still vigil]

Makes zero sense

[upbeat citrus]

The point was, "Three people died to save one life. Kill one to save billions."

[still vigil]

Like can we get a poll of other people on this? Was he lying about killing 3 people?

We aren’t gonna convince each other

[upbeat citrus]

Oh, he's killed more than three. Just not THOSE three.

[fresh garnet]

I’m definitely of the mind that it was some sort of cover up. There’s no reason to make the story of him saving them exactly the same as the situation we see in the next episode…except what happened wasn’t the it was told to us.

I also suspect that specific story thread isn’t completed and we will get more insight into it.

[still vigil]

Yeah the fightings still going why can’t he just kill 3 people and they both saw the deathclaw chasing. Or he was dragging him and didnt warn 3 allies about the deathclaw so it wouldn’t get them

[fresh garnet]

If that’s not the case, then it was just a bit of a dumb choice for them to make the scenarios so similar.

[still vigil]

He feels the guilt for deaths, he did something to cause them

[upbeat citrus]

Or he just feels guilt for deaths in general.

Charlie's a good man.

[still vigil]

Still see zero reason he would say it that way in a semi private convo

He felt he didn’t deserve it but cooper did

He did something that cooper didn’t

[upbeat citrus]

No. He felt Cooper needed an extra push to go kill House so he used the cover story and his lame-ass reward as the push.

[still vigil]

Doesn’t make sense but we aren’t convincing each other

[upbeat citrus]

You're not looking at the whole picture, just the scene and how you would personally handle it.

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense that he'd still say it like that.

He just got done telling that fake-ass story to everybody else plus a congresswoman.

They gave him a reward for saving a man, not killing the three it took to do it.

It still lines up.

And again, his final point to Cooper was "Three people died so one man could live. Kill one man so billions more can live."

You don't get that point across by denying being a hero for saving someone.

[still vigil]

I’m sorry that doesn’t add up with the way he says it

[upbeat citrus]

I don't know what to tell you then, because it makes perfect sense to me.

[still vigil]

Like I said we aren’t convincing each other

[upbeat citrus]

Anyway. Looks like next episode we're finally getting the confirmation that yes, Justin Theroux is Robert House.

And all the "Theroux is playing Anthony House" theories can just finally die.

[fresh garnet]

I can't wait for them to confirm that...and then see hundreds of posts and messages still looking for ways for it to be Anthony lol

[upbeat citrus]

You can't fix stupid.

[still vigil]

Bro thousands of people still think there is a 9th episode of stranger things

[upbeat citrus]

So... you can't fix stupid. lol

[still vigil]

We live in a delusional world

[fresh garnet]

You know what I also think is delusional but a part of me is hoping it's not? That the countdown thing on the prime website is counting to a FO3 or NV remaster being dropped. I fucking wish but I unfortunately think that's delusional too 🙁

[blissful iron]

Anyone who stepped foot in H&H Tool Factory would know Anthony’d never work with Robert and vice versa.

[upbeat citrus]

Anthony was literally, without hyperbole, a tinfoil-wearing schizophrenic recluse.

Had a "special hat" he always wore to stop people from stealing his brain energy.

He also heard his dad's voice talking to him.

[still vigil]

People really are broken from social media. Very few people feel confident enough to have their own opinions on media and look to YouTube essays to tell them if something should be loved or hated. I feel like many of the people that love or hate the show decided based on what their YouTube algorithm recommended first

[upbeat citrus]

Honestly I think the first people to hate the show were all from No Mutants Allowed.

[still vigil]

It’s evident here when Sombody goes on a hate brigade then randomly dropped an hour long hate video link lol

[upbeat citrus]

Yep, sounds NMA-ish.

[still vigil]

Anti Bethesda sentiment has grown in much of the community after 76, which was mid but nearly as bad as it was portrayed

[upbeat citrus]

Yeah but all the talking points are literally the same ones NMA spewed for years.

[still vigil]

(At release it is better now) I liked it on launch personally

I agree it’s the same but 96% of fallout fans have never heard of NMA

[upbeat citrus]

No but they've almost certainly consumed content made by one of its members.

I agree, people generally don't think for themselves anymore.

[fresh garnet]

I'll be honest, I have no idea what No Mutants Allowed is. Just looked it up though lol

[still vigil]

I doubt most of those YouTubers have either, they are more focused on being anti-woke then Actually supporting lore continuity

[upbeat citrus]

I'm so sorry.

[still vigil]

They are the best place to figure out 1/2 mods tho lol

[upbeat citrus]

That's ALL they're really good for.

[fresh garnet]

It seems No Mutants Allowed is to Fallout what VI-Control is to the film scoring community, I see the vibe lol

[upbeat citrus]

I'm anti-woke myself and even I have to admit there are times when the movement gets cringe and misses the mark entirely.

[still vigil]

Fallout isn’t even woke

[upbeat citrus]

It isn't. Which is one of the many reasons why it's good tbh.

[still vigil]

It just comments on the same obvious societal flaws

Very few things are actually woke in the way that they think things are

[upbeat citrus]

Ehhh, I wouldn't say "few." Few-ER, maybe, because companies are starting to catch on, but there's unfortunately a lot of pigheaded holdouts.

[still vigil]

People aren’t pushing narratives to support an agenda, we all just see the flaws in our world and it shows in our media, people just disagree on if those flaws are flaws at all

[fresh garnet]

I have found some of the criticism towards Bethesda during the show to be a bit silly. People will directly act as though Bethesda is 100% writing every single line of dialog, lore, and story element, and that anything they don't like is Bethesdas's fault. Which like...yes, they're involved. And increasingly so, it seems. But they are absolutely not involved to the level that people think when they go "Fallout show is awful, typical of Bethsda to ruin XYZ"

[blissful iron]

They nailed the aesthetics of Fallout for sure.

[still vigil]

Fallout 2 is way goofier then The tv show and they slurp that game up through a bendy straw

[upbeat citrus]

Also the people writing the show are massive fans. The showrunner himself has played ALL the Fallouts.

[still vigil]

People ignored the goofiness in 1/2 because it’s isometric and they didn’t care to read the invoices diolog, when it’s in 3d it’s more obvious and they forgot what the series was like before

[upbeat citrus]

You can tell by how much attention to detail there is not just in world design but also the inclusion of obscure lore bits most casual fans wouldn't even know.

[thorn veldt]

Even brotherhood of steel?

[upbeat citrus]

God, I hope they ignored that one.

[fresh garnet]

Definitely. It seems so apparent to me

[upbeat citrus]

I see all these complaints about "retcons" and, like, I've yet to actually see any. I mean, outside of narrative contrivances that unfortunately are necessary.

And are easily ignored.

The relocation of Shady Sands being the big one.

[still vigil]

Every fallout has severely retconned major lore but they only get mad at the stuff they don’t like, if you want consistent lore get mad at it all

[thorn veldt]

A lot of people crying about retcons haven't played the interplay games, like I think today alone I've see at least a dozen people say "I thought deathclaws were post war" or "I thought deathclaws were made with radiation" 😄

[upbeat citrus]

Tim Cain had a term for this. "Lore drift."

[placid marten]

Next episode

[still vigil]

Why she holding it like that

[upbeat citrus]

She looks like she's holding a radroach.

Not literally.

She just has the expression like she is.

[thorn veldt]

Makes me think about how, the voiced protag was the worst thing to happen to Fallout but I did enjoy the lines you say when you do chems

[upbeat citrus]

The voice actors did an amazing job and the delivery and writing were great. I just wish it didn't happen so it'd be easier to make quest mods.

[still vigil]

Yeah people don’t realize that these “major retcons” and “lore mistakes” are things nobody would ever notice or know about unless 20,000 nerds played the show frame by frame and cross referenced entire wikis to notice

[upbeat citrus]

I'm gonna get crucified by Legion stans for saying what I just said about Fallout 4.

[still vigil]

Fallout 4 having major character backstory was a huge mistake in general

[blissful iron]

I mean, it does feel weird to have the Strip be Quarry Junction 2, ya gotta admit.

[upbeat citrus]

Nah. Feels karmic to me.

[placid marten]

Yes No Sarcastic Maybe

[still vigil]

Quarry junction didn’t have deathclaws 15 years before new Vegas either

It’s like Sombody playing fallout dust and going “what happend where is the NCR” like idk let’s see what the lore says fam

Shit happens, the characters didn’t sit in stasis after you turned off your Xbox the first time you beat new Vegas

[upbeat citrus]

Yeah.

This is the wasteland, chaos reigns.

[blissful iron]

Still kinda sucks.

[still vigil]

Why does it suck, did the courier put up a stasis field around the strip

[upbeat citrus]

No, I kinda get it. But after having some time to process it, and considering the world this all takes place in... it really couldn't happen any other way.

[still vigil]

War happens cities that were saved in ww1 got bombed to pieces in ww2

A story ends and a new one starts

[upbeat citrus]

Hell, the 1922 "Nosferatu" has some of the only surviving footage of buildings that were lost forever in WW2.

[scarlet wasp]

oh my god

this episode sucks ass

[still vigil]

Here we go

[upbeat citrus]

Hello No Mutants Allowed, your free trial of me giving a fuck about your always-the-same opinions has expired.

[blissful iron]

Don’t put words in my mouth. All I’m asking is whether this was the right call to make narratively.

[still vigil]

Why would it not be

[chilly breach]

im sorry who would you rather follow norm whos leading these people kinda well or the pick up lunch bitch

[still vigil]

Bro is playing norm like a fiddle

[upbeat citrus]

Norm. For sure. Don't worry, the bitch is next on Norm's list.

[still vigil]

He knows he’s a fraud

[upbeat citrus]

And Norm knows it.

[chilly breach]

doesnt matter if norms a fruad norm doesnt care about power or position hes going to keep these people safe

[upbeat citrus]

Norm's had the taste of blood already, Bud's personal assistant is next to go.

[still vigil]

They don’t want safety they want to complete the plan and continue vault tecs mission

[fresh shoal]

I feel bad for the lil Vault group. Deathclaw’s gonna reduce those numbers, fast.

[still vigil]

Legion will get to them first

[upbeat citrus]

I don't think there are any deathclaws in the Boneyard.

[fresh shoal]

I think I’d rather have the Deathclaw

[still vigil]

Not after my fallout 1 play through

[upbeat citrus]

Nor mine.

[chilly breach]

double theres no fucking legion where they are at

[scarlet wasp]

Destroying NV jsut for no reason is incredible

[still vigil]

||lol||

[scarlet wasp]

Does just everyone have nukes now? is this fo76 can you find nukes on the ground randomly like???

[upbeat citrus]

NV wasn't nuked. Chill.

[still vigil]

Me when I start yelling in the theater half way through the movie because I don’t understand plot progression

[scarlet wasp]

What the hell else could it be that destroys a city and causes radiation

[upbeat citrus]

We don't know WHY it's irradiated but everything seems just as intact as how I left it last night.

[shrewd juniper]

I mean, if a franchise and good writing bother you. Perhaps just let it go and focus on what you enjoy?

[blissful iron]

Dirty bomb ala Searchlight?

[still vigil]

The glass isn’t even broken and you think nuke?

[chilly breach]

they are literally 6 days apart

[scarlet wasp]

Yeah? Thats not far off for fallout

[fresh shoal]

Deltarune brained

Toby Fox pilled

[still vigil]

Lol we have seen a nuke in season one and it’s a 2 mile crator, there are still palm leaves on the plants

[upbeat citrus]

It wasn't a nuke. If it was, the place would be a crater.

[chilly breach]

a dirty bomb

[upbeat citrus]

A radiation bomb like the one the Legion used at Searchlight, yeah.

[chilly breach]

yeah a dirty bomb

[scarlet wasp]

anyway either way destroying NV is just such a bad decision

[still vigil]

Or houses reactor went critical and started venting

[upbeat citrus]

Why? It got what was coming to it.

[blissful iron]

Place looks halfway fixable once the Deathclaw(s) are cleared out.

[chilly breach]

nothing last in the wasteland

[fresh shoal]

Yeah it might’ve done that without him there to control it because I bashed his head in with a golf club

That’s canon btw my source is that Todd Howard told me my playthrough was canon in a dream

[chilly breach]

just gotta do a deep clean of the area set up the defences again get human guards

[upbeat citrus]

He was already a vegetable, you just made him mashed potatoes.

[still vigil]

They have 4 more episodes to explain what happens and why. The ghoul even mentions that he’s confused about what happened. We will learn the backstory of the strip

[shrewd juniper]

I'd prefer to never know what happened

[scarlet wasp]

i will reinforce the show shouldve been set in chicago and it would improve the quality infinetly

[still vigil]

That is pretty not good idea

[shrewd juniper]

I love mistery and the unknown

[upbeat citrus]

Naw, I'd prefer to at least get some hints.

[still vigil]

See the thing is I got spurs that jingle jangle jingle

[shrewd juniper]

something happened, we don't know what, such as it is

[chilly breach]

love how the bos cant help but kill each other

[upbeat citrus]

Only these specific chapters.

[blissful iron]

I’d have preferred a canonized ending instead of the wishy-washy ‘fog of war’ stuff.

[still vigil]

Have you beat fnv yet?

[upbeat citrus]

Fuck your "canon ending."

[shrewd juniper]

I'm partway through owb

[still vigil]

Second best dlc

[chilly breach]

they are a bunch of paranoid boot lickers and probally the worst chapters the bos have

[upbeat citrus]

I'm happy with the fog of war.

[still vigil]

The fog of war isn’t very foggy

[fresh shoal]

THE LOBOTOMITE RETURNS!

[still vigil]

It seems pretty clear what’s cannon and not so far

[scarlet wasp]

Yeah them going for weird fog of war is stupid as shit considering FO1,2,3 and 4 have canon endings

[upbeat citrus]

Oh, 100%.

[upbeat citrus]

4 doesn't have a canon ending either.

[scarlet wasp]

We see the prydwen

[still vigil]

I think they said the fog of war thing to keep the outrage down but if house is alive we know the truth

[upbeat citrus]

No, that's the Caswennan.

[fresh shoal]

Something tells me the Commonwealth BoS isn’t doing much better

[blissful iron]

To be fair, with 4 it’s a toss up between BoS and Minutemen far as I know.

[shrewd juniper]

we just have a rough idea for 4. one of two possibilites

[upbeat citrus]

The "Prydwen" on the hull's a fucking production error.

[scarlet wasp]

Minutemen destroy the prydwen in there ending dont they??

[upbeat citrus]

Nobody from the Commonwealth actually shows up until Harkness does.

[upbeat citrus]

No. It's optional.

[shrewd juniper]

S1 covers why the Prydwen is there

[scarlet wasp]

I dont really remember i havent beaten 4s story since 2015 lol

[upbeat citrus]

It's not the Prydwen. It's the Caswennan.

[blissful iron]

Not necessarily; you can blow up the Institute as the Minutemen without so much as annoying the BoS.

[still vigil]

Maxson is alive, would be insane for him to survive a non BOS or minuteman ending

[thorn coral]

There are a few more possibilities but they either sum up to the protagonist dying early or siding with minutemen/BoS

[chilly breach]

dont the bos live during the minuteman ending

[still vigil]

They can, that’s what I said

[thorn coral]

That depends on your relationship with BoS

[upbeat citrus]

I keep them around because generally they don't have the wrong idea.

[still vigil]

The BOS surviving is the bad ending lol

[upbeat citrus]

Also having allies that are properly equipped is a good thing.

[blissful iron]

Been saying that for years; it was fun to see one of their airships crash.

[still vigil]

The BOS are morally just bad people

I love them but people think they are good guys because they are cool, 40k syndrome

[chilly breach]

growing up is realizing the bos are pieces of shit

[scarlet wasp]

yeah BOS is also at its worst in fo4

[still vigil]

No worse then before

[scarlet wasp]

like thee genocidal in fo4

[fresh shoal]

Where did the Prydwen show up from originally like… Where were they before they arrived in the Commonwealth

[still vigil]

Capital wasteland

[blissful iron]

And realizing House was 100% on the money about them.

[chilly breach]

fallout 1 and 2 the bos were cool they were hermits who didnt hoarde tech but made it

[fresh shoal]

Oh so they’re the DC chapter?

Does that make them distinct from the current Commonwealth chapter?

[still vigil]

They send you on a death mission intentionally in 1 because they thought you were anoying

[chilly breach]

he was right about them wanting tech that can hurt people rather than help people

[chilly breach]

I said they were hermits not assholes lol

[still vigil]

Maxson and some troops from dc are the commonwealth chapter

[open rampart]

The commonwealth chapter is the first official chapter name for the eastern brotherhood.

The east coast brotherhood doesn’t have a proper name so they just called them the commonwealth BoS

[still vigil]

He probably left some troops to start their own capital wasteland chapter

[thorn coral]

Nah the bad ending would be minutemen without BoS, railroad or institute

[upbeat citrus]

Institute is the bad ending.

[still vigil]

The BOS are gonna keep committing genocide untill they all die out or split apart

[chilly breach]

the railroad is a worse ending imo

[thorn coral]

Railroad vanishes their tech will vanish too, BoS is armed from toes to foreheads, institute being gone leaves just one faction holding all the cards and the problem is minutemen will die along with the protagonist

[upbeat citrus]

Not really. Institute's the worst. Railroad is the ending for chumps.

[thorn coral]

BoS in 4 is more chilled out

[still vigil]

They are still genocidal against all ghouls and synths

[upbeat citrus]

Good.

[chilly breach]

the minute men are ceasars legion with a new coat of paint

[still vigil]

Filthy casual racism

[open rampart]

Yeah basically

[thorn coral]

They don't care to go after the slog and to be fair synths are an actual issue for human survival

[upbeat citrus]

Humanity > its competitors. It's not racism, it's common sense.

[still vigil]

Not after the institute is destroyed

[still vigil]

Ghouls and synths are still humans

[upbeat citrus]

No they're not.

[thorn coral]

Why put so much resources into repurposing a more expensive less durable robot that they can just build anyway

[still vigil]

Yes they are

[upbeat citrus]

Then why do they themselves say otherwise?

[still vigil]

They are still sapient beings with emotions and thoughts the exact same as regular humans

[upbeat citrus]

They are also existential threats to humans.

[thorn coral]

To brotherhoods credit in 4 they know about the slog and goodneighbour and they don't rly care

[still vigil]

Ghouls are existential how?

[upbeat citrus]

They inevitably go feral.

[still vigil]

And the synths are only a threat when being controlled by the institute

[still vigil]

And people go crazy and commit murder

[upbeat citrus]

Are you forgetting the Broken Mask where a synth literally glitched out and started killing everyone?

[thorn coral]

Look at what dimma can do now imagine if someone like hank got their hands on that tech, or house

Synths have the potential to be a weapon worse than nukes

[upbeat citrus]

That isn't remotely the same. Ferals can't control themselves. Insane people can and do.

Ferals are basically zombies.

[still vigil]

Regular humans murder people all the time, “loving fathers” murder their whole families

[upbeat citrus]

And ferals murder EVERYONE. I don't see your point.

[still vigil]

Yeah and turning ghouls are extremely obvious for days before it happens

And technology exists to keep them sane now

[thorn coral]

All I'm gonna say is you should play 76 and go with raiders there's a character that would give you some hard truth about ghouls (he is one)

[still vigil]

We literally have a drug that fixes the feral problem and they are always showing clear symptoms before turning

[upbeat citrus]

It doesn't "fix" the feral problem. It delays it.

And that drug's supply is finite.

[thorn coral]

Ferral or not even the show tries to tell us that being a ghoul is miserable

[still vigil]

Mercy killing is only okay if it’s consensual

[blissful iron]

The drug thing feels like it came out of nowhere.

[thorn coral]

From how people treat you to how you lose a sense of taste and mostly only feel pain and lonelyness

[still vigil]

I’m sorry but killing feeling thinking people because they may some day hurt Sombody is eugenics

Which is bad

[open rampart]

To be fair, we haven’t been on the west coast for 15 years

[thorn coral]

In my eyes going out of your way to kill ghouls is a waste of resources, but killing someone beacause they are a ghoul out of fear is not the worst that could happen in the wasteland

[upbeat citrus]

No but the show does imply that this is something that's always been the case.

[still vigil]

That’s like saying it’s okay to kill Sombody because they scared you in an alley

[upbeat citrus]

It is. You don't know if they plan to attack you or not.

[still vigil]

Bro that’s murder

[upbeat citrus]

No, that's survival. Why be stupid and take chances?

[still vigil]

I don’t know if you plan to attack me so what if I drone struck your house right now?

[vast wasp]

You whould be charged for murder in any court

[upbeat citrus]

So, you're talking only about right now and not the Fallout universe?

[still vigil]

Also ferals and non ferals look and act completely different

[thorn coral]

It's a different world normal society rules don't apply and I'm sorry but if I can't keep my distance it's me or them mentality is gonna kick up for both of us

[upbeat citrus]

They don't look completely different at all. The show confirms that.

[still vigil]

They twitch and growl

[still vigil]

Morality doesn’t change just because it’s the apocalypse

[upbeat citrus]

Yes it does. It has to.

[still vigil]

Rules do but not right and wrong

[upbeat citrus]

All's fair in love and war, and the battle for survival is always war.

[scarlet wasp]

yeah its a weird choice

[still vigil]

If you think they do you have a poor moral framework in my opinion

[blissful iron]

Yeah, it was never even alluded to in 1, 2, 3, NV, or 4, yet it apparently was a problem stretching back to the Vault Dweller’s generation, if not the 76’ers. Darn thing also might as well kinda give plenty of ammo to anti-ghoul folk, and that feels icky.

[thorn coral]

Brotherhood of steel treats each other like family, dying to a stranger beacause of your moral compas affects other people, hurts them way more than having that compas loosen up.

[open rampart]

Actually yeah. With cooper and Roger

[upbeat citrus]

I was talking about the drug, not the inevitability of going feral.

[still vigil]

I just assume it was there since 76 but didn’t reach most places and most ghouls just naturally made it

[thorn coral]

To be fair a ton of ghouls also use chems at least in 4

[still vigil]

Some were lucky to find it early and kept it hidden

[upbeat citrus]

I just assume the ghouls used their vials whenever they were off my screen.

[still vigil]

Roger says he didn’t start showing till a few years ago

[thorn coral]

I assume that I would rather enjoy the media beacause ultimately ghouls aren't even that important

[still vigil]

Some need it right away some make it 200 years before it’s necessary

The ghoul in the fridge never got vials

[upbeat citrus]

That's actually pretty healthy.

[still vigil]

People say all this stuff about how ferals can turn at any moment but that never happens or is reported it’s just in universe fear. It’s a long process with clear signs

[upbeat citrus]

Even other ghouls tell you it can happen at any moment.

[still vigil]

Please share a source

[thorn coral]

I wouldn't use 76 as a lore source for the show by looking at gameplay mechanics that aren't core fallout mechanics.

How would you explain action diet then? (legendary card that keeps you from going ferral whenever you kill an enemy)

[still vigil]

Yes but it’s also a lore item

Part of quests and diolog

[blissful iron]

And it’s not like a ghoul is immune to bullets; fella starts to or goes feral, well, a few 10mm shots will solve the problem rather quick.

[still vigil]

We know many ghouls that never got vials and made it 200 years sane

[thorn coral]

I'm gonna have more to say about it once I finish up that questline

[thorn coral]

We know that some were isolated with no food water entertainment in complete darkness and yet survived 200+ years, but then again so what

[still vigil]

That supports my theory fam

[thorn coral]

Still don't understand that kid from fo4 the whole thing creeps me out

Especially the whole "wanna sell him" thing

[upbeat citrus]

I don't think it was even meant to be canon, just a goofy quest.

[still vigil]

Vials are necessary once the feral process starts but not untill then

[thorn coral]

First time I saw it I killed the guy mid sentence, just no wtf

[thorn coral]

I think so too

[still vigil]

Making a quest that’s impossible to be canon is very stupid

[upbeat citrus]

Welcome to game design.

[thorn coral]

How many characters crutial to lore in all fallout games are ghouls?

[still vigil]

What metric

[upbeat citrus]

Technically there's Harold, though he's debatable.

[high latch]

Does Dean count

[thorn coral]

Their actions directly impact the main story line of any fallout game

[still vigil]

Set

[high latch]

So no on dean then

[upbeat citrus]

Okay yeah. Harold. Though it's debatable whether he's actually a ghoul or not.

[high latch]

He's close enough, may as well be

[thorn coral]

Then maybe we should look into those characters, how they behave etc

[high latch]

Harold is a freak case because y'know FEV, also he kind of predates mutants and ghouls being a clear divide

[upbeat citrus]

In Fallout 1, Harold gives you crucial information about what you're up against and also confirms the existence of the deathclaw. In Fallout 2, he's running a nuclear power station that canonically gets repaired and brought to full power and provides power to the NCR.

[thorn coral]

Okay, thank you both for info, let's put Harold aside i think he's more of a ghoul on technicality, anyone else like Set?

[upbeat citrus]

Set gets killed by super mutants during the sacking of Necropolis so probably not.

[still vigil]

As the leader of necropolis he is importsnt

[thorn coral]

See, if you think about it ghouls avoid people most of the time

[still vigil]

Because people are racists and want to kill them

[upbeat citrus]

Arguably Hancock is the most important proper ghoul we've seen thus far, aside from The Ghoul.

[thorn coral]

And i think they based their ghoul knowledge on characters meet in games and what do we see ghouls that are in social settings do?

Be defensive, rough around the edges, usually organised in groups and addicted to chems

[high latch]

Dean is arguably up there too but really ghouls don't get involved in the main stories much

[still vigil]

Being constantly attacked will do that to people yes

[upbeat citrus]

Dean's a piece of shit and a footnote in his own story.

[scarlet wasp]

the ghouls in necropolis in fo1 were pretty important

[high latch]

This is just normal discriminated minority stuff

[thorn coral]

Yeah so they don't get much focus that's why I don't understand why people are upset about a retcon over something that doesn't really change much

[still vigil]

@upbeat citrus Did you ever find a source in ghouls turning feral in an instant

[high latch]

I don't think it really matters when or how they turn feral, wastelanders are still tainted in how they interact with ghouls just because they know it's a possibility

[thorn coral]

It kind of is but to be fair that's the image people have in their head and don't go lying to me

[still vigil]

Yes, misinformation is a big part of racism

[upbeat citrus]

No, I've been too busy participating in the conversation. I think the guy Frogatek mentioned earlier confirms it though.

[high latch]

🤷 I don't really have a concise image of a ghoul in my head

[upbeat citrus]

It's not racism though, it's survival.

[thorn coral]

First one that pops up in my head aside of the ghoul would be Hancock

[upbeat citrus]

I don't hate my species enough to put another species' survival ahead of my own.

[still vigil]

“Let’s oppress and attack these people.”

“Omg why are they addicted to drugs and mean to me”

[high latch]

It's a mechanism of survival that manifests as racism/xenophobia/etc

[still vigil]

It’s not non ferals are just as reasonable as normal humans

[still vigil]

Ghouls are humans, live, breath, think, love

[high latch]

Dean is still the archetypal ghoul in my mind, I don't have enough experience interacting with Raul but if I did I imagine he'd shape my view of them significantly too

[thorn coral]

I'm sorry in advance for the rude comment I'm about to do but if your moral compass would be that stiff during a scenario like fallout presents, I'm afraid people would be looting random junk off you

[upbeat citrus]

Fine, but I don't give a damn about their "consent" when they start showing and are out of vials. I'm putting one between their eyes before they can rip me apart.

[still vigil]

Sure if they show signs

[thorn coral]

The main things about ghouls for me are that they mostly keep to themselves and even see themselves as abominations

[high latch]

All well and good until you know the ghoul on a personal level

[upbeat citrus]

Like The Ghoul knew Roger?

[still vigil]

I would rather die then murder off of weak assumptions and racism

[high latch]

Cooper isn't the average guy, he does that shit and worse regularly

And even he didn't really care for it

[upbeat citrus]

He was kind enough to give Roger a happy memory to go out on.

[still vigil]

Also ghouls are the most resourceful and knowledgeable in fallout, they are the best allies

[upbeat citrus]

Honestly I'd do the same if I could think of a trigger for one.

[thorn coral]

And a painless quick death

[high latch]

Relatively painless

[upbeat citrus]

It only hurt for like a split second then it was done.

[still vigil]

They can go places you can’t, know things you couldn’t know, survive things for you you couldn’t. Ghouls would be the best allies so being kind to them would help your survival

[thorn coral]

Compared to types of deaths we see in the show that one is basically humane xD

[upbeat citrus]

It's instant, at least

[blissful iron]

The ass jerky was also presumably at least tolerable taste-wise.

[high latch]

They probably also smell like shit and apply a pretty heavy hygienic strain to the places they live I imagine

[upbeat citrus]

I will say, I'm with Maximus. "Abominations" or not, you don't fucking kill kids.

[still vigil]

You have poor logic

[thorn coral]

Dude you made me crack up again that scene was so tragic and hilarious at the same time

[still vigil]

They can turn feral all the same based on what you said before

[upbeat citrus]

Don't you find it weird we've never seen a feral child ghoul?

[high latch]

I am a bit confused about the fact that we apparently have a bunch of ghoul kids because that has a great many implications

[thorn coral]

"he tried to kill children"
shocked face
"they were ghouls"
amgy face
"ABOMINATIOMONOMOMSS, heresyyy"

[high latch]

Before the show we see one (1) child ghoul

[still vigil]

Because you can’t kill children in Bethesda games

[blissful iron]

Agreed; how the heck is a ghoul child a threat to anyone even if they go feral?

[still vigil]

They can bite your jugular all the same

[blissful iron]

So can a normal human.

[upbeat citrus]

I mean, IF they went feral, fine. But the others didn't.

[thorn coral]

They have the essential tag but aren't passive

[still vigil]

I know I’m picking apart filthy and frogteks argument

[high latch]

Where did these ghoul children come from? Are they still growing?

Too many questions raised by them showing up

[upbeat citrus]

No. Ghoulification halts your growth.

They'll be stuck as little rotten kids forever.

[high latch]

this was a poor decision to introduce to the narrative wasn't it

[blissful iron]

So, technically, those ghoul kids could be pre-War kids who were ghoulified?

[still vigil]

There was one ghoul kid who grew up in 1 or 2

[upbeat citrus]

Potentially.

[high latch]

In theory yeah

[still vigil]

Mention only

[high latch]

Maybe some of them are weird pseudo ghouls like Thaddeus

[thorn coral]

My guess is it depends on the rads? At some point rads would damage the dna and bones to the point where children can't grow

[upbeat citrus]

Thaddeus isn't a ghoul. Ghouls don't have extra mouths on their shoulders.

[still vigil]

It would just depend on their specific flavor of ghoul is my guess

[thorn coral]

I think ghoul children would not be turning ferral tho

[high latch]

Other wasteland oddities have been grouped into the category before

[thorn coral]

At least untill they can comprehend death and how being immortal would suck and they have nothing to live for

[high latch]

[thorn coral]

The times we saw people turn ferral in the show those ghouls were miserable

Alone or locked up in an organ farming plant

[upbeat citrus]

True, Roger was lonely and depressed as all hell.

[thorn coral]

So was Martha

Stuck in jail completely miserable

[upbeat citrus]

They both also tried to hold onto what little remained of themselves by repeating their names.

Unfortunately it doesn't work, but desperation is a helluva thing.

Both knew what was happening to them and were trying to fight it, but it was inevitable.

[thorn coral]

Yeah but both of them had no support

[high latch]

Season 1 water purifier guy knew what was up huh

[upbeat citrus]

What, the guy who put sand in the filter expecting the filter to magically turn it into water?

[high latch]

Yes

[upbeat citrus]

... You're shitposting.

[thorn coral]

Oh no... Poor dude xD

[high latch]

He made the right call never going over that hill to filly

[upbeat citrus]

Oh. True. That town got wiped off the map.

[blissful iron]

Especially when the BoS decided to LARP as the Enclave raiding Vault 13, with Filly taking the role of said Vault.

[upbeat citrus]

"People get killed in Filly all the time. That's where my daddy got killed, anyway. Couple'a brothers too. Had an aunt as well, she got killed there once..."

The "once" at the end of that sent me every time I rewatched that scene. XD

[thorn coral]

I wonder if the merchant lady is still alive

[upbeat citrus]

Ma June? Nah, doubt it.

[thorn coral]

I'm gonna assume no beacause otherwise Maximus would be dead too

She would only live if she sold out Moldiver, but she doesn't

[upbeat citrus]

Also she's a fighter. She would have been part of the defense force.

Remember what the pilot said. "The locals put up a fight, but so did we. Heh."

[still vigil]

Carol from 3 was a child when she apparently became a ghoul, typhon in 2 was a ghoul child who became an adult. So some ghouls age some don’t

[upbeat citrus]

Maybe the fridge is what kept the kid from aging.

[still vigil]

Like a fish

[upbeat citrus]

Growing up as a ghoul has to suck though. All that molting.

[thorn coral]

That makes me sad would love her to see Lucy now at this episode specifically, she would have a laugh

[upbeat citrus]

"cackles Hey, Barv! Look what this sardine-fucking dipshit has gotten herself into now! How's that clean livin' workin' out for ya, sweetheart?"

[thorn coral]

Dude that absolutely made my evening :D tysm

[upbeat citrus]

Read it in her voice huh?

[thorn coral]

Yes even with the voice crack at Barv!

[upbeat citrus]

xD

I still have yet to memorize everyone's names. I finally memorized Woody and Reg, but the older Vault gentleman with the moustache keeps escaping me.

[thorn coral]

You mean "Get back here at once young lady?"

[upbeat citrus]

Yeah that one. The one who can't find his way around Vault 32.

Hell, the water chip mechanic is someone I'd like to know the name of too. Did we ever hear it said?

[thorn coral]

Davey

[upbeat citrus]

Davey's the moustache man right?

[thorn coral]

Yup the Shakespeare guy

[upbeat citrus]

Ah, yes.

[thorn coral]

I don't think so sadly

[upbeat citrus]

Poor bastard, he's that old and that naive... Vault-Tec did a number on him.

[blissful iron]

Bit of a running theme with 32/33.

[upbeat citrus]

In fairness, we see similar situations with other vaults still inhabited by their intended dwellers.

At least, the ones whose experiments aren't as overt.

Vault 81, Vault 13, Vault 101 all come to mind.

It also looks like Vault 32's recent history is about to repeat itself.

[blissful iron]

True; honestly, I’m kinda curious to see just how hard 32/33 shit the bed into proper ‘failed Vault’ status for some future Fallout protagonist to comb over like every other failed Vault.

[upbeat citrus]

I mean, Vault 31 would be an interesting find for sure.

Imagine a wastelander or vault dweller from another vault stumbles across 31 and is like, "What the fuck went on in here?"

Not realizing the enormity of what they're looking at.

[blissful iron]

Yeah, the Tri-Vault honestly makes a better ‘Failed Vault’ than an actual working Vault.

[upbeat citrus]

Most vaults canonically are designed to carry about 1000 people. These vaults seemed like only a couple dozen each.

Genetic diversity went straight to shit within the first 100 years for sure.

Only the 31'ers aren't inbred, I'm certain.

[blissful iron]

Explains why the Overseers come from there; wouldn’t do to have your leadership be in the running to replace the Habsburgs as the most inbred folks around.

[upbeat citrus]

Well, that and Bud's "Ineffable" Plan requires it.

[broken swallow]

Are all vaults meant to have those open spaces for crops?

[upbeat citrus]

I'm honestly surprised it took this long for someone to even think of that.

I don't remember though, does Vault 4 have a farm?

[green cargo]

Okay, just finished watching the new episode

What fucking choices did courier make

[upbeat citrus]

Any.

I think the state of Vegas was brought about around the same time Shady Sands got Hank'd.

[carmine raft]

Bro what the fuck happened to the Strip?? They blew it to hell, even the Gomorrah! Now where’s the wastelanders supposed to gamble and pick up hookers at the same time

Also hold up when it comes to the Brotherhood I know they didn’t like ghouls on account of them having a proclivity towards going feral but I don’t think they’ve ever just killed ghouls I mean not that I’ve heard of

[opal tiger]

Most have some sort of spacing for crops, or a botanical area to grow things.

[tender spindle]

The ones that are meant to last anyways I’d imagine. They can’t rely on stored food forever

I view most of the vaults in the games as abstractions. We rarely see their full scale.

[red dagger]

15 years will do that.

something has happened within the conflict to basically have the Strip dirty bombed, and with the place evacuated, it became a perfect home for Deathclaws to move in, probably from the Thorn, as it's close by (meaning a certain quest to help the area may in fact cause things to get worse).

[unborn nimbus]

It doesn't have to be that way. It's the writers choosing to make things turn out that way in 15 years.

[tender spindle]

I wonder if this was caused by the Omertas

We know without courier intervention that they start an uprising and bomb the strip

[blissful iron]

Yeah, I kinda am in the same camp too.

[opal tiger]

Omertas was gas, not a dirty bomb.

[unborn nimbus]

people talk about the time jump as if it is something that will naturally occur no matter what. And not realise this is fiction where writers get to decide what will happen after New Vegas. for whatever reasons, the writers wanted to tell a story where everywhere we saw in the game has gotten worse.

[red dagger]

no, it does have to be that way if something bad happened that caused people to evacuate.

[opal tiger]

Everything in FNV pointed to the factions struggling in the Mojave, one way or another, 90% of the NCR dialogue is the characters complaining how they don't want to be there, resources are stretched thin, how kimball's leadership is bad, almost EVERY single NCR camp needs help and can never somehow get reinforcements.
The Legion? One of the founders and most prominent Frumentarii members both tell you the same thing. The Legion lives and dies, with Caesar. Lanius cannot lead. He's not a leader. He's a Warrior, he's a Legate. He's not capable of being Caesar. Infact his inability to handle logistics is fact of this. Which is why you use it to exploit him at Hoover Dam and he leaves.

[red dagger]

there's clearly radiation in the Strip, no one is there to care for it, thus the desert claimed it pretty damn hard, and not only that, but Deathclaws scooted in seeing as the place is as barren as a ghost town.

and judging by the egg hatched, the deathclaws were there for a WHILE.

[opal tiger]

If it's a Matriarch, Matriarchs don't resettle unless their eggs are moved or destroyed.

[red dagger]

indeed, she's been there chilling for quite a bit

[opal tiger]

So someone moved the eggs there. It's something we learn in Fallout 4 from the Gunner quest inside the church iirc.

It was that one quest with the Deathclaws inside the building, it's like a quasi-horror movie, you're finding the gunner audio logs talking about the egg, and come to find out these idiots stole it and the Matriarch/Mother followed them.

[unborn nimbus]

there's a lot of other ways things can pan out! as even the game implies!

[red dagger]

I don't think it's a recent thing, it's definitely been around to the point vegetation within the Strip is slowly dying off due to radiation/malnutrition.

[opal tiger]

It's gotta be within the last 10 or 15 years, i have to imagine.

[red dagger]

the game takes place 15 years before the show even started, bro.

[blissful iron]

I get what you’re saying, but it still feels wrong in a way I still can’t explain precisely.

[opal tiger]

The game is 15 years before the show, a lot can happen in 15 years.

[red dagger]

almost 2 decades passed, a lot of shit went down.

things that got out of hand, clearly. It happens.

[fresh shoal]

Yes man ending

*bangs hands on table * YES MAN ENDING

[opal tiger]

It feels wrong because we've spent 15 years playing a game, and feeling like our choices matter. No one ever stopped to consider if Bethesda would actually choose our choices to be canon.

[fresh shoal]

Yes Man Ending Yes Man Ending Yes Man Ending

[red dagger]

Dirty bomb happened in the Strip, the Kings got killed off via ghoulification and gone feral, Deathclaws moved in to take up vacancy (probably because it got super quiet and they like the quiet), Securitrons went through a HEAVY battle and lost.

[fresh shoal]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[red dagger]

even after they upgraded, judging by the spent missile pods.

[silent slate]

The thing is if they did make an ending Canon people wouldnt be happy because it's not their ending.

[opal tiger]

Exactly is the issue, and what people don't want to admit.

[fresh shoal]

You guys don’t wanna admit it’s the Yes Man ending

All signs point to yes…
man

[opal tiger]

So what they're going to do is they're gonna pick and choose stuff that is, and isn't from each ending - or storyline, and go that way.
I've said from day 1 of season 2, there won't be a big time canon ending hardcore confirmed, at most the Courier delivered the chip, killed benny, and fucked off.

Bethesda is probably most likely gonna make up their own ending for FNV and make that canon.

[fresh shoal]

NOOOO

[silent slate]

Also it's been 15 years, the ending of FNV doesn't really matter after that long honestly. Like anything can happen in that time and it's because war.. war never changes

[blissful iron]

People do, through the roads they walk.

[unborn nimbus]

a lot can happen, even the the possibility that things could get better in 15 years

[unborn nimbus]

yes, and for all you know, you can equally say things got even better from any of the endings in the game

there's no fixed destiny that things will get worse in 15 years

[opal tiger]

Yes but that's clearly not what's expressed through the story, and that's not the direction that the show went.
So the showrunners using evidence based on what the game provides, isn't bad, or isn't problematic. It's pretty consistent.

Citizens, people from factions expressing how the state won't last for each, in the Mojave specifically. Even people like Marcus say this, so it's not really that bad. It might be upsetting or disappointing if you wanted civilization to improve. But.

[tender spindle]

Fugggg dementia has hit again

[opal tiger]

Lol no worries I got you.

[unborn nimbus]

the point is the writers chose that version, it's an active choice. Not some fixed destiny that what happens after the game must always turn to shit.

[opal tiger]

It's a fixed choice based on evidence the game and setting provide.

If you cannot see this, you're just refusing to acknowledge game dialogue as lore, or evidence - simple as. I'm sorry idk what to say, this is stuff that is flat out said in-game, but citizens of each faction, and prominent figures to the setting.

[unborn nimbus]

the game literally offers you different endings where things can get better for different factions!!

[opal tiger]

But none of them are canon, the same way Fallout 3 offers you to blow up the Pentagon. But that's not canon.

Bethesda chooses the direction, they chose the direction of things becoming worse. It's no different than what they've done in their previous titles, making decisions based on what they feel is best for the narrative THEY want to tell.

[tender spindle]

Honestly though I am wondering exactly what happened to turn the Mojave into what we see in the show. Clearly they diverged from what the game established would happen without courier intervention (Legion victory), so I’m forced to believe the courier was involved somehow even if to what extent I don’t know. Unless the alternative is that they forgot/changed NV’s story drastically.

[unborn nimbus]

whether it is canon or not doesn't matter, the game is designed in a way that there are different possibilities, meaning the future isn't as fixed as you said. The writers just chose the version they want that give the most shitty result

[opal tiger]

Given we're half way through and there's been a single Courier mention, I'm not convinced the Courier did anything at all, which is why things got so bad.

[unborn nimbus]

sure to god fallout fans just love things getting worse

[opal tiger]

It does matter because it provides evidence as to WHY it was chosen, whether you like it or not. It can literally go either way, things can get better, or worse. FNV just happened to be where things get worse, oh well we roll with it. There's nothing we can do to really change it. Especially cause it's not like this server is Bethesda affiliated.

Bethesda's vision is post-apocalyptic.
Black Isle/Interplay post-post apocalyptic.

Bethesda is going to aim the narrative towards keeping things post-apocalyptic, that'll never change.

[unborn nimbus]

the point is it's still not fixed. it's that the showrunners and Betheesda wanted a version, and it's an active storytellign choice on their part.

[opal tiger]

Again that doesn't make it bad. Lol if the setting provides those possibilities based on evidence in the games themselves.

[unborn nimbus]

my point isn't about how the tv show version cannot happen. My point is the tv show ending is one of the options that writers actively chose. That it's an ACTIVE vs PASSIVE choice.

[tender spindle]

In the end credits we see that McCarran was a battleground between NCR & Legion right?

[opal tiger]

Sure, again, how is this bad. I'm not seeing the problem.

[tender spindle]

Heard someone say that

[hasty coral]

At this point fallout dust is cannon

[opal tiger]

Yes, but the keyarts aren't canon, unfortunately.

[unborn nimbus]

I never said the point is about whether it is a good or bad thing. I'm saying it's an active choice and not a fixed destiny

[tender spindle]

Damn I was going to use that to support a theory I was cooking up

[unborn nimbus]

whether it is good or bad thing to do is a separate discussion point

[opal tiger]

The showrunners said they're just for slight/mild teases and art fluff. In episode 3, there was a RobCo silo, with ultra luxe, which we saw neither of this episode aside from the Ultra Luxe sign.

The Keyarts have a very loose, very loose tie in to the actual narrative. Like the one in episode 2 is the Legion stadium, but we didn't see that. We just got to see the Legion, the following episode. so that's what I mean is that they're very loose tie-ins.

And i think in episode 1 we saw Primm in the keyart? And then in the episode with the Legion, we see Primm in the distance.

[opal tiger]

Fair enough.

[tender spindle]

But regardless maybe it’s possible that the Legion initially took the Dam, pushed towards Vegas, but without the courier being there (or unwilling) to assassinate House he ends up allying with the NCR to repel them from Vegas itself. Could explain the Legion’s foothold in the Mojave but there being no evidence of an occupation of Vegas proper

[light siren]

I could see that

[hasty coral]

Fallout Dust is cannon

[light siren]

Crazy

[opal tiger]

Would the legion be skilled enough to takedown House's upgraded securitrons? Idk.
A big part of me still believes that the Factions were byproducts of another plot going on, but im still simmering with that theory.

Until I know more about the actual involvement of Hank and the Vault FEV stuff they mentioned this episode, I'll probably have a better idea.

[tender spindle]

Yeah I think something bad happened afterwards, but I’m trying to make it work with the plot of the game.

Since the second battle of Hoover Dam would have inevitably happened pre-SS nuke

[opal tiger]

Oh we're on different frameworks. lol I've completely abandoned all hope they're sticking to many of the game narratives. I'm fully convinced they made up their own ending/timeline of events. Especially with the conflicting dates and stuff.

[tender spindle]

And the NCR had a continued presence there for at least 15 years right?

[hasty coral]

I have a feeling that the NCR won the battle of Hoover dam, but Mr house demanded the NCR to leave vegas. Over time the legion tried to rebuild itself, but Lucy’s dad did a deal to take care of the NCR and the legion at the same time leading to a battle that wiped all sides.

[tender spindle]

So seems like they didn’t give up in this timeline for awhile

[opal tiger]

Oh and them confirming A LOT of Van Burren stuff, too, also makes me believe they decided to choose another route.

[hasty coral]

Because all the factions needed to be dealt with to allow vault tec to take over

[tender spindle]

Perhaps, I’m desperately hoping they didn’t just retcon the main conflict of NV lol.

I will agree there is a lot of evidence they’re ignoring things though

[opal tiger]

We can almost assume Hoover Dam was won aside from anyone besides the Legion just based on the fact that things would be glaringly different.
The reason I don't think House would make the NCR leave is because House's plans 100% depend on the NCR, he cannot run Vegas without NCR tourism. He needs their money to really do much of anything. Like yes he's rich, but he's rich because of the NCR.

[tender spindle]

Khans being around and not allied with the Legion and NCR just sticking around for over a decade points to the war being in a deadlock for way longer imo

[unborn nimbus]

we can make a debate based on whether people agree or disagree with the writers' decisions, but that's something people need to agree in good faith first that writers actively decide which ending they want to go with

[opal tiger]

Yeah this is, hard for me to ignore. It's not that I want there not to be no canon ending. But I am hard pressed to believe that we're half way done with this season already, and almost fucking nothing is confirmed about anything in FNV aside from the chip delivery. 😂

[hasty coral]

I mean kick out the NCR military, but establish relations of trade and diplomacy. Recognize New Vegas as a independent region. However, shady sands probably wanted revenge in some way and the legion. Leading to a 3 way conflict that destroyed everyone. Pretty much FALLOUT DUST

[opal tiger]

I mean I agree with you. Yeah, most of those discussions don't really end up in good faith, and just devolve unfortunately from what I've seen.

[red dagger]

yeah, but shit happens within 15 years. Unfortunately the nuking of Shady Sands caused a cascade effect.

[tender spindle]

Cause like the problem I see with claiming a House or NCR victory is that none of the details align with this from what we know in game

If the NCR wins they’re getting rid of House and his securitrons

If House wins he’s kicking the NCR military out

[opal tiger]

Exaaaaactly. Which is why I'm convinced the Fog of War statement they gave, was lowkey PR bullshit. Because, who the fuck is expressing 'they won the battle'? MFs still think they're fighting!

[unborn nimbus]

my point is we should stop using "shit happens in 15 years" as if it automatically means the writers choice of making things goes bad for NV is somehow the only possible thing that can happen

[tender spindle]

But neither of these things happen, which must mean there was no resolution?

[opal tiger]

Yep, I genuinely do think the Shady Sands bombing caused a cascading effect. Truly. Like a domino fall of events.

[unborn nimbus]

the whole "it's 15 years" really doesn't matter. good things can happen in 15 years. bad things can happen in 15 years.

[red dagger]

why, so I should stomp my feet when they set up a logical explanation of why everything went to shit for the Strip? No, I personally find it reasonable. It's sad, but is what it is. It also makes for an interesting setup. It does matter, 15 years is a LOT of time, that's literally a portion of your life.

once that nuke dropped, I knew shit was gonna go sideways for the Strip, Shady Sands was literally keeping Vegas alive.

[unborn nimbus]

because what happens after 15 years is a choice the writers can go down in different directions. saying it's 15 years act as if the writers had no choice or control over which narrative they want to write

[red dagger]

I dunno why people act like that's a surprise.

[tender spindle]

SS being bombed would explain the region’s economic downfall, but there’s definitely something more at play. Perhaps there was an uprising against House after things fell apart and that’s why the securitrons are destroyed? Honestly I’m wondering if a radiation bomb went off in the city. I mean wtf happened to the kings to ghoulify them?

[unborn nimbus]

who knows! NCR weakened could also end in other possibilities too! maybe a house victory, or a full legion victory is also possible.

people aren't acting like it's a surprise that NCR didn't win NV. People are acting surprise that everyone lost as well because NCR lost

[red dagger]

what are you talking about? A house Victory? The war for the dam ended 15 years ago. There is no victory here. Obviously most of it is hinting at House winning, but because Shady Sands is gone, all of his plans went out the window.

[silent slate]

No one really wins in Vegas

[opal tiger]

Think about it. @tender spindle
NCR loses shady sands - boom, they get scared, pulled out of the Mojave. Terrified of an unknown faction/assailant - they don't know who nuked them, so they make a hasty retreat, leave people behind, people get separated. It's messy.
NCR Tourism is lost in the Strip, causing House to lose money, and his grip on the Strip falls, easily because his plans rely on NCR tourism to even come to fruition. Someone takes advantage of this - clearly evident by the Strips state.
Caesar succumbs to his tumor/cancer, names a successor in the midst of all this, civil war breaks out - they are now EFFECTIVELY at half fighting force since the 2 Caesars cannot agree on anything, and clearly attempt to kill each other. Which means there is no cohesion in the legion tribe to carry out effective attacks, which is why they pick fights with everyone instead of stratgeically picking targets like before - Brotherhood, NCR Remnants, Great Khans, etc etc.

[red dagger]

my man is thinking about the Dam, still, lol. It's all for naught. All of them lost, it doesn't matter how ya slice it, Shady Sands was that big of a pivotal piece.

[silent slate]

Tbh I think it just shows you how horribly managed the NCR was and how The Legion rely too heavily on 1 person who's now dead. Also the khan's being an enemy to the Legion means they never joined which is interesting

[unborn nimbus]

"a lot can happen in 15 years" like somehow House can't pivot to NCR weakening and using his stable powerbase to build a new factio and expand? House doesn't have to just stay in Vegas eternally.

[opal tiger]

This is what's said through out all of the narrative in Fallout New Vegas !!!

[red dagger]

because that was never his plan. He never wanted NCR weak.

he never wanted NCR crippled, they're literally his lifeblood.

[tender spindle]

It’s possible that the Khans broke off the deal due to intervention from House/NCR or they did participate in a battle, it didn’t go well, and they just started doing their own thing again

[opal tiger]

Someone pointed out, it's possibe the Khans left, and came back or grew - in one of the endings, the Khans become an Empire and are able to rival the Legion. Similar to how a Follower created The Legion, the Followers of Apocalypse uplift the Khans in one of their endings.

[red dagger]

what he wanted was to put them in a chokehold over the power grid and negotiate financial deals with them for said power over the dam, as well as keeping the vegas strip open for them at all times and protect them in the vicinity.

after all, they're his best paying customers.

[opal tiger]

So it would explain how the Great Khans managed to reach as far as Novac, and hold it, until they encounter the Ghoul and Lucy.

[unborn nimbus]

again, plans can be adjusted and change. It's not like House only ever have one possible plan. People can react and adapt to changes.

[red dagger]

judging by what occurred, he was really betting on no crazy nukes happening in the Post-post apocalypse.

[unborn nimbus]

House knowing NCR is weakened/destroyed means he could now expand with no other rival if he wishes, even expand beyond NV and into California

[red dagger]

House doesn't want to expand. What? Why should he?

[hidden fractal]

This makes the most sense. When you think about how delicate of a situation all of the conflicts in the Mojave are before the Courier gets involved, you start to realize that every faction in the region is just 1 op mailman short of winning a war

[unborn nimbus]

and if it happened, then why won't he react and adjust and make new plans to make the best of the situation?

[opal tiger]

What, that is such a lie. House relied on NCR tourism entirely. He never wanted to expand like that?

[red dagger]

he originally wanted to leave this rock, not expand. He wanted to bring back technological marvels to the world, use the financing to get himself a rocket with the best minds the wasteland had to offer and get the hell outta here.

[unborn nimbus]

House relied on NCR tourism since he's not in a position to contest against the full might of NCR. Hence the treaty and him making sure NCR didn't annex New Vegas and the strip. A weakened NCR means House don't have to deal with a powerful NCR and opens up new strategic positions

[opal tiger]

That is EXACTLY. My point, everyone misses, im serious next time you play New Vegas. Really listen to what they're saying. I mean it, listen. It's super telling how fragile to state of every faction is.

[unborn nimbus]

and yes, if leaving this rock requires taking up more resources to make it happen, you have to expand to gain those resources.

[red dagger]

yeah, everyone was basically at the breaking point.

[tender spindle]

Tbh it sounded like the forces in the Mojave just lost contact from the NCR proper. I wouldn’t be surprised if the guys at and near Mojave outpost just deserted to go home once they heard the news. Though considering the dates this still leaves it up in the air for who won. If the second battle of Hoover Dam happened in this timeline I wonder if it was a partial victory for House & NCR. NCR kept the Dam and military outposts, but House had enough power behind him to keep negotiating for the Strip.

[hidden fractal]

I replayed it a couple of months ago and yeah, I was listening into all the details of how fucked the NCR would've been if it weren't for the Courier's help lol

[tender spindle]

I’m not really sure how the NCR would have won, but I doubt that’ll ever be fully explained

[unborn nimbus]

people act like House can ever only have one plan, when it's clear in the game that House made his decision based on assessing the sitaution that he can't compete directly with a powerful NCR in the post-war world when he wakes up. The plan House had in the game is based on his assessment of the situation he's dealt with.

[red dagger]

we know that House had his securitrons upgraded, so he did get that chip. However, something HAPPENED. His securitrons are gone, wiped out, they depleted their stockpile awhile ago.

[hidden fractal]

If they put themselves in that situation without the Courier being involved, it's not super far off to imagine that they've all gone to shit after the Courier's part in the story ends

[tender spindle]

The partial House/NCR victory makes me think he got the chip but not the fort securitrons maybe

[unborn nimbus]

and not like he ever intended NCR to be part of his plans. Hell, even his original plan with the platinum chip didn't go to plan and he **adjust **according to the situation, when he realised he woke up in an not ideal situation!

[tender spindle]

So just enough power to negotiate a truce but not an outright seizure of the Mojave on his part?

[unborn nimbus]

House is someone that can make adjusments to his plans

[opal tiger]

I agree, 100%. NCR proper abandoned them, or broke contact of their own safety, I've said this since we've seen their reappearance.
The NCR is not gonna be gone entirely but they've retreated to safer territories, and probably bolstered their defenses heavily expecting more of their cities to get nuked. If the second battle of hoover dam happened, everyone was not in their best state to even contest with it. Which who knows.

Keep in mind the NCR NEVER found out who nuked them.

[hidden fractal]

It probably also just didn't feel worth the money and resources to continue the war effort in the region after losing Shady

[red dagger]

either way:
-NCR lost their main home, they're scattered, and every city they have under them will now have to pick up the pieces, it's gonna take a long time.
-House lost his bargaining chips. Shady Sands is gone, His main firepower is gone, and worse, his tribes are gone, leaving him with deathclaws and an irradiated strip.
-Legion lost Caesar and he failed to imprint his ideals into them, so they now fight among one another, doomed to rip each other apart.

[hidden fractal]

Hydroelectric power is great and all that but I'm not sure the losses that have been sustained are THAT worth it

[opal tiger]

Yeah, i think where most people struggle with is WHERE his story ended.
I'm still of the assumption he just did his job, after killing Benny. But i know that's super unpopular cause it makes the Courier a bit boring but. It's the most realistic based on what we've been granted as 'canon' thus far.

[opal tiger]

We can assume the Dam is still running, at the very least, the Strip IS lit up, it looks like shit, but it has power. lol

[unborn nimbus]

House plans when he woke up is he realised he's facing a powerful NCR that just defeated the BoS in the West Coast because NCR can wage a war of attrition against any rivals in California region. What House realised is he might not be able to contest against whoever is in charge of West Coast at the time, he can at least gain enough power to keep NV under his control.

If NCR is weakened with Sandy Sands blown up, House don't have to deal with being allied to NCR presence and can instead gobble up the resources and land of NCR the situation has clearly changed

[hidden fractal]

I also feel like the NCR (at least in its former societal advancement) could've just built their own dam

[unborn nimbus]

they could have, but the point is they wanted the dam to expand their presence in NV region. So an easy power source to gain control over the region.

[tender spindle]

From what we know all of their lakes & rivers were basically dried up so I don’t think this would’ve been very viable long term

[rustic surge]

Dams are also incredible feats of engineering and resources. I doubt the NCR could actually navigate such a task.

[opal tiger]

Based on what Hanlon says, but Hanlon, idk I do not trust that man worth a DAMN. lol
The other thing is too, that the NCR proper did not want to be in the Mojave.

[hidden fractal]

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we get to see the dam but it's been destroyed

[opal tiger]

They couldn't, they can't even get it past 50% efficiency.

[red dagger]

it's probably damaged, but it's still running power.

[hidden fractal]

Yeah, I guess some of the lights not working are just a bulb issue, not power

[opal tiger]

This, like i said the Strip gets it's power from the Dam, and the Strip is still showing signs of power, it might be a lit, but it's enough.

[tender spindle]

I don’t think Hanlon would be lying about that, ik that piece of lore is unpopular and Hanlon can be an unreliable narrator but there’s no reason for him to be lying about the situation back home. It’s also backed up by the OSI predictions for a famine.

[hidden fractal]

It could also be getting limited power from Helios

[opal tiger]

Someone pointed out that majority of the rivers are connected, so if one was dried up, all of them would be and in the game we see that is not true. But that's not my wheel house really to argue/debate over - someone more understanding on how the land works can handle that one. lol

[unborn nimbus]

NCR didn't want a huge rival next door to them that fully controls the Dam/big power source.

[opal tiger]

I just don't know if what he's saying is true or not given the conflicting information I've seen, that's all.

[unborn nimbus]

If they didn't control the Dam, the fear is some other rival states will control the Dam and be able to match the NCR over time

[hidden fractal]

I could see one side losing the fight and being like "if we can't have power, nobody can!" and then bombing the Dam

[red dagger]

NCR wanted the dam because of several reasons.
-Their power grid was very demanding, they needed it for electricity
-They came into hostile contact with the legion who wanted the Dam, they feared they were gonna destroy it, so they gotta defend it.

Caesar wants the Dam and wants Vegas as his Rome, a place to build institutions, civilization, at least that's his claim.

[tender spindle]

Episode 2 (iirc) of the show seems to back up the idea they’re having water issues with the characters mentioning water rations in Shady Sands, so I don’t think it’s fabricated regardless of how realistic it is. Ik the Colorado river gets a lot of water from many different sources so perhaps only some of its connecting sources have run dry, idk.

[opal tiger]

Yeah, if I had a better understanding I could provide more information on it. I do recall water struggles, though so.

[old jetty]

Hoover damn would’ve also made agriculture easier for whoever controlled it, it would need work for it to be done but that’s a lot of water that could go towards agriculture

[red dagger]

it's the main reason the OSI was looking into Vault 22.

[hidden fractal]

Cold fusion really serves as a good plot device going forward, because if whatever remains of the NCR learns of it, it would be immensely valuable to them and Hoover Dam wouldn't serve much of the same purpose. And clearly they don't really care about influence in the region anymore, considering the current state of things

[unborn nimbus]

whoever controls the dam controls NV, and whoever controls NV is a huge rival against the NCR. It would still matter because it still means a huge faction that can go to war with NCR and fight them in California, potentially.

[red dagger]

yeah, the nuke makes the dam somewhat pointless, and even then, there's still parts of Shady sands alive, As we saw when Moldaver got their hands on the cold fusion device.

[opal tiger]

Yeah, the thing is. ||If the finale leaks are true, I'm almost positive Vegas ends up getting Cold Fusion anyway, which is gonna piss people off cause people hate House, but at least the citizens who've been surviving in Vegas get unlimited energy. ||

[unborn nimbus]

remember NCR at the time just won a big war against BoS for total control over California. They don't want another rival popping up again

[red dagger]

haha! Only thing I can say is, repeat after me!
"THE HOUSE. ALWAYS. WINS!"

[tender spindle]

This is one of the overlooked reasons for why they wanted it yeah, wasn’t just electricity or region dominance

Bunch of free, unpolluted water

[opal tiger]

|| Especially cause Lucy expressed NO interest in the NCR, and referred to them as the same derogatory term the Ghoul called the Khans. And Maximus has yet to have his interaction with the NCR, 4 episodes in excluding his childhood which holds almost no signifiance cause he never thinks or references them, i'm not convinced the NCR will be able to learn about it in time if they haven't learned about it from Moldaver. ||

[hidden fractal]

Would be interesting if that just leads to the remaining NCR returning to Vegas to try and take it for themselves lol

That is, assuming there is a remaining NCR

[opal tiger]

Yeah, I leaned into the House being the most beneficial out of all of this to occur, and it would bring stability to the region, if true.

[old jetty]

Yeah, the NCR has a ton of people, electricity food and water are probably very high priority for them, but without food or water, what’s the point of vying for electricity when you’re in a famine yk

[opal tiger]

There's an ending in FNV that a lot of NCR folk end up living in Freeside, someone posted it earlier - i forget where it is. So it could lend some truth to at least them living in Vegas.

[tender spindle]

But yeah what do we think happened to turn all the Kings into ghouls

[red dagger]

I'm guessing Dirty Bomb in the strip.

[opal tiger]

Someone said the showrunners said those aren't all the Kings? idk if that's true.

[red dagger]

Cooper points out there's radiation within there, surprisingly.

[opal tiger]

The implication being the Kings are still alive in Freeside, those were just the Kings from before.

[tender spindle]

Ah, that’s a strong indicator then

[opal tiger]

Yeah, it's a small trace amount, it's not major.

[hidden fractal]

I believe there's a pic on Amazon under the extras tab that does show the Kings building with its sign still lit up in Freeside

[opal tiger]

Because the Geiger counter ONLY goes off when they get to the center, near the Nest.

[red dagger]

radiation caused people to flee the area (that or the deathclaws came in to take roost, but that's not like them. They prefer moving into a quiet area AWAY from humans, not towards them)

[tender spindle]

Could be evidence of something happening in the past at least

Radiation tends to dissipate over time, though in fallout it’s wishy washy

[red dagger]

they generally don't like being around loud noises.

[opal tiger]

Yeah, this is why im not sold it's a dirty bomb, so idk. I'm unsure, something happened for sure. That's factual.

[hidden fractal]

There's a chance that the guitar dude was the King. It seems that this show is going the direction of all the major characters belonging to each faction that we knew in the game has been killed or met an unfortunate fate, but that the factions themselves are still around

[red dagger]

my other point was that it could be residual radiation from the Deathclaws moving in and causing panic in the strip, making people abandon the area.

[opal tiger]

Yeah, i could by this.

[red dagger]

but that's like...insanity, even for a Deathclaw.

[hidden fractal]

But that said, there could be a new King as well

[opal tiger]

The funny thing is, the Freeside citizens literally live and enjoy life in peace, on the otherside of the wall with the Deathclaws. lmao

[tender spindle]

Quarry Junction must’ve gotten boring for the deathclaws lmao

[opal tiger]

There's no guards, they quite literally don't care. 😂

[hidden fractal]

My main theory is dirty bomb ended up on the Strip, which attracted a deathclaw matriarch to put her nest there, and also ghoulified the Kings as we knew them

[red dagger]

right? we know the fence isn't holding the Deathclaws in, c'mon, those motherfuckers apparently can just obliterate through the building structure like it's nothing BY WALKING INTO IT

that is some crazy minmax aura flex there

[opal tiger]

yeah exactly, which is why I'm convinced someone lured them there, and as long as the Deathclaws aren't fucked with, they're docile. lol

[hidden fractal]

Maybe the Kings tried to be knights in shining armor to help the Strip when it happened, but it didn't turn out too well for them

[tender spindle]

I wonder what deathclaws are eating in there, unless them hunting in Freeside periodically is common

[opal tiger]

Could be, tried to get rid of whatever brought the Deathclaws in.

[opal tiger]

They have bones, they eat whatever is there I imagine, or they've been feasting on the corpse left over who knows, or people who wander in trying to get back into the old casinos.

[red dagger]

right? LOL
Alpha deathclaw be like "Look, I sneak out the back, I get me and the missus bighorners, some molerats, and some dumbass fiend hooked up on jet and haul them back to the nest. Life's good. Now leave me alone"

[tender spindle]

Eating blackjack and hookers

[opal tiger]

Also for people who missed it with the Vault Tec plotline -

Seems like they're going to the place where Barb & Bud worked at for Vault Tec

[red dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout-4-vault-tec-good-morning-gif-10750839318096169023

[hidden fractal]

Speaking of Vault-Tec, I'm theorizing that Steph is gonna turn Woody into a guinea pig for the "Future Enterprise Ventures"

[old jetty]

I think there might be a way for them to get in and out of the place, or they might climb over the fence/use the tunnels maybe. I don’t think they’d make it long without having a steady source of food, so maybe they ate the ghoulified residents and anything that gets inside

[opal tiger]

Imagine if Freeside feeds them. LMAO

[tender spindle]

You remember that molerat ranch in NV?

[opal tiger]

That is your punishment for breaking the Law in Freeside, executed by Deathclaws.

[old jetty]

Why struggle with a deathclaw infestation when you can have a sick ass pet

[red dagger]

oh for sure, I also think they actively go out anywhere besides Freeside at night to hunt for Bighorners, there's usually a herd of them in the outskirts all over the place.

[tender spindle]

Maybe they got something like that going on

[red dagger]

wouldn't be surprising the Missus deathclaw nips the Alpha and kids to go out there and bring back food for the nest and pack.

[opal tiger]

Yeah, i have to imagine they have some sort of steady supply for food.

[hidden fractal]

If the fiends are still around, I'd imagine they most definitely go on suicidal raids into the Strip to try to find any drugs they can get their hands on

[old jetty]

Don’t bother the deathclaws and they don’t bother you, except when they do and then you can’t do anything about it

[hidden fractal]

They probably got desperate after the NCR abandoned the region

[tender spindle]

Also in the trailer is that a juvenile deathclaw Maximus is wrestling with?

[old jetty]

Also the fiend ruins have Brahmin (form cook cook and the others)

[red dagger]

ehhhhhhh...hard to tell.

[opal tiger]

it's hard to tell

[tender spindle]

Cause there’s zero chance he’s not getting folded by that fully grown one

Fucking Yao Guai can penetrate the armor

[hidden fractal]

And I have zero shred of doubt that there are some chem stashes hidden around the Strip's casinos

[red dagger]

oh yeah, if it was an adult, I'm sure that fucker would just punch and send him flying back into the Strip gate

[opal tiger]

I'll be able to analyze it when we see the horns better, because the one we see in the Strip is a Matriarch.

[unborn nimbus]

I wonder if the writers just understood each faction as consisting of only their main capital/settlement and nothing else.

[old jetty]

In Quarry junction the male and the other deathclaws drawn to the area are the only ones who move freely, while the queen sticks to the babies and the eggs unless you shoot a baby or get too close and shoot at her. How much do you wanna bet there’s more eggs inside one of the buildings in the strip

[red dagger]

no, because the NCR folk we did see mention there's more of them out there, it's just Shady Sands is gone.

[opal tiger]

I highly doubt it. They quite literally wouldn't go out of their way to mention the NCR has multiple Capital cities otherwise.

[red dagger]

I bet it's in Gomorrah, seems like the fire and crab made it look cozy for the Deathclaws.

[fresh crown]

Finally got f4 modded to work, problem was vortex all along

[opal tiger]

Dump vortex in the trash where it belongs.

[red dagger]

and they had a lot of padding and cushions and such. Perfect to turn into fluff for the eggs to rest on.

[old jetty]

yeah I agree the alpha and the others probably run around getting food and then bring it back. She’s there because she doesn’t really have an incentive to move elsewhere if she’s got her man and her kids out looking for food all the time. Like the queen bee lol

Gomorrah is so spacious

[fresh crown]

Who was the short prick that ran Gamorrah again, Nero?

[opal tiger]

We do see Two Deathclaws, maybe a third, pulls up on Lucy and Coop so I wonder if it was sleeping time and Lucy woke them up with her shouting.