EPISODE 5

[solemn geyser]

Sure but a face is a face and its why i dislike a part of the stranger things fandom

they have def made the concept of shipping even more weird

[midnight kiln]

i'm sure he's ffiiiinnnneee… maybe

[solemn geyser]

Like theres just a lot of examples that ruin the idea of shipping for everyone even tho yes it can be fun

i myself have agreed with ships when it comes to anime. nothing wrong with it

[covert kindle]

Shipping has existed as long as fandom has existed.

Really the only issue with it is when certain fans get weird with the actors or try to force the writers to make it canon.

I feel like you’re just making a lot of assumptions about shippers/fanfic in general though. Like just ignore it if you’re not into it lol.

[solemn geyser]

but its mainstream presence is kinda a problem

[covert kindle]

Not really

It’s just more normalized because fandom in general is more normalized now

[solemn geyser]

my point isnt me ignoring it. I already ignore it. My problem is when some make it interfere with a innocent bystander

[midnight kiln]

nah yeah; i get your point.

i do, however, think you've been exposed to a really unhealthy fandom (never watched ST, but i've heard some seriously fucked up shit from it's fandom).

you have every right to feel uncomfortable because i do know what you're talking about - just know even with live action fictional characters, most people are gonna not be fucking weird and creepy about it, but steer clear of people and fandoms that do that for your own wellbeing 😭😭

[covert kindle]

I feel like we’re on the same page regarding what’s considered normal shipping/toxic shipping lol

It’s harder to discuss with people who don’t “get” that side of fandom and lump it all together has something inherently weird or negative

[midnight kiln]

changing perceptions can take time ¯_(ツ)_/¯ especially if it stems from a really bad experience.

Fancy Schamncy - you're good man. please don't feel pressured or anything 😭🙏

[covert kindle]

They’re so cute! But I’m afraid to get attached because I feel like she’s exactly the type of character the show would kill off 😭.

[midnight kiln]

[covert kindle]

This isn’t a Game of Thrones type show where they’re gonna kill off their main cast…but lovable side character characters? I fear for them.

[solemn geyser]

nah its fine but i think i should apologize anyway for sounding a bit too rude

its late and i dont rlly think too deep what i said lol

[covert kindle]

There have been way worse discussions here don’t worry lol

[midnight kiln]

it's okay, but ty all the same. you had a bad experience, and we're only human 👍

just, y'know, don't feel pressured to not say anything if you do see people being weird - call them out!

[covert kindle]

That’s not even a shipping issue, toxic fans in general just have to be called out when they do weird shit

[midnight kiln]

if anyone was apart of the Voltron: Legendary Defender fandom: y'all would probably remember toxic fans sending death threats to the voice actors and their families if their ships didn't become canon.

what a time to have witnessed 💀

[covert kindle]

I wasn’t in that fandom, but I saw that train wreck from a distance just from being on Tumblr

Toxic fans/shippers aren’t usually the majority but by God they are loud

And then they give everybody else a bad reputation

[midnight kiln]

"few bad apples spoil the bunch"

-# NOOOO THERES STILL GOOD APPLES WE EXIST PLEASE BELIEVE US 😭😭

-# WERE NORMAL AND WONT SEND DEATH THREATS

[patent hatch]

Same, I thought for sure that Ronnie was about to merk her when she walked past him

[topaz fiber]

He's probably going to turn her into a super mutant in front of Norm

[midnight kiln]

[topaz fiber]

Yea like norm restrained and forced to watch the only girl he's been interested in turn into a horror show

I think this season has been building up a super mutant reveal

[midnight kiln]

absolutely horrifying theory but a possibility

[topaz fiber]

In the episode where Quintus retells the bos founding, he doesn't mention it directly but one of the reasons maxson rebelled was because they were making super mutants, vaults 32/33 were made for "Super managers" hmm looks similar to "Super Mutants" the same way FEV was Future enterprises ventures or whatever

This whole show basically leading up to a super mutant reveal possibly even a new master because Thaddeus is not a ghoul

[midnight kiln]

they were making supermutants?? why 😭

pretty ironic and hypocritical considering their whole "KILL ABOMINATIONS" thing

[topaz fiber]

They hadn't yet in v32/33 I think after Hank had a family he put a hold on his own vaults experiment, he most likely has the FEV 2 inside of his Keepsake box that Steph wants Betty to go bring her

[topaz fiber]

No not the bos

The pre war government, the bos was just the army until Roger maxson found out what they (the scientists ) were doing in the facility he was guarding, had a mutiny and killed all the scientists inside, then he waited for the government to arrive to arrest them but the nukes dropped before that happened

Then he formed the brotherhood of steel and sent out a call across America to all army rangers trying to get them to form their own chapters

[midnight kiln]

OH I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT ARTHUR MAXSON - not Roger Maxson

[topaz fiber]

Oh I see makes sense

Im interested to see what max and thaddy get up to next ep

[midnight kiln]

imagine Thaddeus becoming a master 😭 dude is not gonna be happy about that

[topaz fiber]

Not a Master, The Master

[midnight kiln]

Mr. Join… Die… Join… Die dude?

[topaz fiber]

His body is changing way too much to be a ghoul

So I'm thinking he's going to become something like the master

[midnight kiln]

god, that'll be tragic.

[topaz fiber]

Hmmm, The ghoul eventually meets with Max and Thaddeus, I wonder if that's next episode and the ghoul is going to tell Thaddeus he is not a ghoul at all but something worse

[hybrid bough]

That's not possible lol, he might become a centaur or some other abomination but he's definitely not becoming an equivelant of the Master. The Master spent almost a month in a vat of FEV, this guy just got one dose of something that made him a ghoul

[topaz fiber]

What told you he was in a vat for a month

[hybrid bough]

Almost a month

[topaz fiber]

Dude fell into the vat and got out, his body wasn't immediately transformed it transformed over months

You read his logs in fo1

Know what the first mutation was he grew, a mouth on his torso

Just. like. Thaddeus.

[midnight kiln]

wiki says he was in there for a week

[hybrid bough]

"2102 June 23 Richard Grey's Expedition [including Harold] finds the Mariposa Military Base and the Expedition is scattered and defeated by mutants at the base. Grey is knocked into one of the vats of FEV by a robotic arm, and Harold is knocked unconscious, only to awaken later out in the wasteland."

"2102 July Richard Grey, now horribly mutated by the virus, crawls from the Vats covered with FEV and in terrible pain. Barely able to think or perceive his surroundings, he crawls into the Vat control room and begins his audio log. He fades in and out of consciousness, sometimes for days or weeks at a time."

[topaz fiber]

That says days, either way not a month

[hybrid bough]

Pay attention to the dates

[midnight kiln]

yeah, just helping to clarify for you two.

[topaz fiber]

June 23 to July is only a week at most

[hybrid bough]

It doesn't specify which day of July though

[topaz fiber]

Yea exactly lol so what made you say a month

[hybrid bough]

Because if it was by the end of July it'd be a month

[topaz fiber]

If it was they probably would have included a date

[midnight kiln]

July is just stating his current progression of transformation

[autumn tangle]

You guys are assuming anyone on the development team actually played Fallout 1 or 2

[midnight kiln]

not how long he was in the vats

[topaz fiber]

Them just putting July but no number tells me it was probably the first days of July

[autumn tangle]

I am skeptical

[hybrid bough]

The Master was a unique product you cannot recreate, unless you actually have Thaddeus be submerged in FEV for days

[topaz fiber]

He has fev running through his veins probably thanks to the crackhead chicken lover

[hybrid bough]

Read what it says - that's when he crawled out, he was knocked in on the 23rd of June

[midnight kiln]

all i know is: "they played the games" which games? to completion? idk 😭

[topaz fiber]

76 and fobos

[midnight kiln]

why is the wiki saying it was a week 😭

[autumn tangle]

If anyone in that studio has put a thousand hours into a fallout game they probably have him tied up like Clockwork Orange and feed off of his blood for ideas

[hybrid bough]

I tend to ignore what the wiki says and just look at the sources directly, much more non-biased and accurate lol

[topaz fjord]

Thaddeus has a mutation more in common with harold

[midnight kiln]

okay, Google AI says it was a month 😭

[hybrid bough]

I can agree with that

[topaz fjord]

Not quite a ghoul but some similiarities

[hybrid bough]

Grok would say it was 15 years probably

[topaz fjord]

Anyone noticed vaults 32 and 33 seem very underpopulated

[midnight kiln]

well

Vault 32 was wiped out by raiders

Vault 33 got raided by the same raiders

so their numbers are way down.

[topaz fjord]

32 fell to internal riots, but even before the raid 33 seemed low

[midnight kiln]

wait it was?? damn i cannot remember shit 😭

but their numbers could've been down due to lack of genetic diversity - making it harder to continue creating more children that weren't inbred 😭

and there a fair few inbred residents

[topaz fjord]

Funny enough vault 101 was also heading down that road

[midnight kiln]

isn't that what ultimately happened though? the security people overran the scientists and the overseer, but i can't remember the exact fate of them all - but it was implied most of the scientists and overseer were murdered.

pretty sure the overseer is the skeleton with the computer

because no all clear came from Vault-Tec

[topaz fjord]

Also betty is the only known buds bud without kids that was thawed as planned that we know of, not counting the norm batch

Thats vault 111

[midnight kiln]

OH SHIT

[fierce arch]

Without kids or with kids? Lol

[topaz fjord]

Without
Hank has 2
Steph 1

[midnight kiln]

my bad i got that dyscalculia 😭😭

[fierce arch]

Also I do want to know why Claudia came out of a pod that's not hers.

[topaz fjord]

Two possibilities she replaced someone or the set designers missed that one

[fierce arch]

Here

[fierce arch]

Yeah, I dunno.

[topaz fjord]

She was the newest so could be a replacement

[fading plover]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/784104276048740434/1461662146432860160/G-uHPSQbQAUsf_-1.gif

[topaz fjord]

Where did dogmeat go?

[autumn tangle]

Yeah you wouldn’t be moving your arms and legs

Also there would be a LOT more blood

But yeah, I’m not a Ghoul doctor.

[slow wadi]

The Ghoul will return in Avengers: Doomsday

[topaz fjord]

Dog meat has returned home

[autumn tangle]

Dogmeat much smarter in the show than in the games. saw those Deathclaws and was like “yeah no what do I look like a bear? I’m out”

[topaz fjord]

Dogmeats a double agent

Do you think there is a chance janey is also a ghoul albiet frozen early in the process

She was around the same blasts that hit cooper and presumably started his ghoulification

[autumn tangle]

We just saw tubes marked for them btw we did NOT see through the glass to who is inside

[topaz fiber]

Yea, freeside in this episode has a building that's only in fo2, the golden globes porno theater, the map the BOS has in their HQ has location names from Van Buren, it's obvious these writers have gone through every bit of material they had available

Also you're acting like it takes years to beat fo1-2, they're like 15 hour stories

[shy apex]

She was also probably just the closest person on hand. Vault Tec wasn’t prepared and just took everyone they had on hand even if they weren’t actually on the list

[uncut blaze]

Saw someone point this out on Twitter

[autumn tangle]

Shit, color me surprised, the lead writer actually did play it

I’ve been too busy looking for NV references to notice that stuff

[topaz fiber]

So then just a reference or something bigger?

[fierce arch]

The showrunners have put more detail into the show in a short time than Bethesda has remembered in some aspects, I'm pretty confident they've played all the games and have access to a lot of things that people have forgotten about as well.

[shy apex]

Given half the audience havnt even played the games that’s not hard tbf

[fading plover]

Presidential Metro connects to Adam's Airforce Base.. Enclave?

[topaz fiber]

True

[solemn rivet]

I just realized those military police guys in Vegas were using riot gear without the riot gear helmet

[topaz fjord]

Could you get behind an episode opening with just dogmeat returning and finding the ghoul/lucy

[fierce arch]

very true lol

[forest raptor]

oh yeah what happened to that fella, he didnt follow them into freeside did he

[white mantle]

Norm likely has information that Darrin? Dennis? What’s-his-FEV needs, or at least, might have info.

For what it’s worth, it’s not on the closed captions. That just has “growling”.

[outer lake]

Only he and Claudia know that Norm lied, if the others see that he just killed their supposed leader/manager and he has no proof at all to back up his claims, bro is gonna be in hot water

[oblique tulip]

The deathclaw was just growling

[fierce arch]

It's not on the script, or captions - which is one of the things as to why most people don't buy into it. So no it is not confirmed.

It was literally just growling.

[oblique tulip]

Plus talking deathclaws aren't prewar

[forest raptor]

guys all those messages were 12h ago lol

[oblique tulip]

We know

[fierce arch]

I'm just now seeing them. Lmao

[forest raptor]

yeah no iagree it wasnt on the captions so i doubt it was intentional but i do find it funny because i literally cant unhear it now

[fierce arch]

Juicehead said it sounded like it was trying to say Marine

[inner marten]

I tried super hard but couldn’t hear it

[topaz fjord]

He got the fuck out of dodge

[inner marten]

It’s like when people think their dog says “I love you” but really just has to piss

[fierce arch]

I don't think it says anything, genuinely I think people are reading too much into it lol

[fierce arch]

Lmaooo

[topaz fjord]

That dog is the smartest party member

[oblique tulip]

Bc they are

[inner marten]

I want an episode that is just from dog meats pov. Running around freeside doing shenanigans

[outer lake]

someones gotta be holding the brain cell of the party from time to time

[white mantle]

The Idiot Ball gets passed around pretty regularly.

[topaz fjord]

When max is on screen he carries it like he is running for a touch down

[white mantle]

Max did not put any points into Speech.

[inner marten]

I’ve started to feel like max isn’t as stupid as i thought but just chronically disassociated from trauma and his shitty life

[white mantle]

He’s actually more naive than Lucy in certain ways.

[inner marten]

Disagree

Nice edit lol

[topaz fjord]

Max makes odd decisions some are morally right others are just baffling

[white mantle]

I had to caveat that - yeah lol

[outer lake]

Hes naive in certain ways, like hoping that Quintus would be more forgiving and understanding before deciding to pull the trigger

[topaz fjord]

Killing quintus was questionable but killing harkness kinda made sense

[white mantle]

he doesn’t know what a boner is

[inner marten]

The brotherhood saving him is the one good thing he can cling to in life so hoping they can be better is naive but understandable

[oblique tulip]

He was about to be til he told him they were ghouls

[white mantle]

And yeah, Quintus was basically on Max’s side right up until “the kids were ghouls”

[outer lake]

but beyond that nah, Max is a hardened wastelander, bro knew what to do when coming across random groups and strangers

[topaz fjord]

The brotherhood at this point may blame max for all their problems

[white mantle]

If nothing else in a “well, I can use that to justify what happens next” sense.

[midnight kiln]

okay… imma play devils advocate for a second - how is killing Quintus 'questionable'?

[oblique tulip]

If max never said they were ghouls he whould have likley helped cover up xanders death

[inner marten]

Quintus deserves it

[outer lake]

yup, hes kinda an inbetween Lucy and the Ghoul in terms of morality imo

[topaz fjord]

Because he didn’t have a reason to do so at that point

[inner marten]

Maximus still had hope the brotherhood could be good, it was his last shot

[white mantle]

Right.

[inner marten]

Quintus proved him wrong and broke the chain

[topaz fjord]

He could have fled with thadeus and the kids, but he chose to kill quintus and set a civil war in motion

[outer lake]

Quintus isn't dead yet lol just a reminder

[inner marten]

They would be tracked down if he did I that

[white mantle]

Max is hoping against hope that Quintus is gonna come down on the “murdering kids, even Ghoul kids, is Bad, Actually.” side of the fence.

[hazy axle]

This show is a 10/10 masterpiece, haters should be pushed to the defensive on it

[outer lake]

all 3 of them, Dane, Thaddeus and Max kinda caused the civil war all at once in their own way

[midnight kiln]

minus all the questionable stuff he was doing…?

[topaz fjord]

I mean stealing cold fusion will make them an even bigger issue

[inner marten]

It’s funny cause people in this discord think killing ghouls is fine but killing ghoul kids isn’t

[hazy axle]

Outside of a few nitpicks like The Kings and Hank somehow finding that dude immediately

[topaz fjord]

Max wasn’t against that bit though

[white mantle]

There’s a metaphor there - nobody starts a war by pushing a button. Lots of hands put that finger on the button by various actions.

[oblique tulip]

Ok kids were gonna make a group of two

[inner marten]

What?

[midnight kiln]

okay i see your point 👍

[outer lake]

Hanks got fast travel on his pipboy its fine

[oblique tulip]

Did the chicken fucker steal fisto?

[topaz fjord]

And he seemed to not know quintus shared the ghoul thing

[hazy axle]

"Fisto is the key to all of this" -Todd Howard

[inner marten]

He thought that being a child would overwrite their hate since he personally has a soft spot for them

[midnight kiln]

wait who

[inner marten]

Not gonna @

[midnight kiln]

but he did though…??

[topaz fjord]

But the point was maximus wasn’t really opposed to the attempted coup

[inner marten]

But people legit think ghouls should be killed on sight

[oblique tulip]

He knew the hate but was hoping them being children whould overrite it

[topaz fjord]

I mean his reaction seemed to say so

[inner marten]

Because zero of the brotherhood chapters are good

Quintus really isn’t any worse then commonwealth in my eyes

[topaz fjord]

Still better than elijah

[midnight kiln]

when Thaddeus was revealed to be a ghoul (or appears as one for now), he and Thaddeus both understood immediately Thaddeus had to run because the Brotherhood hates and kills ghouls.

[topaz fjord]

Is quintus actually just an expy for elijah

[midnight kiln]

he was hoping Quintus would exempt children ghouls from that

[topaz fjord]

True but his leap to kill qunitus comes purely from killing harkness

[midnight kiln]

yuh

[topaz fjord]

I wonder what veronica would make of christine royces new voice if they ever met up

[inner marten]

If quintus didn’t say the kids were abominations he would have walked out of that room no issue

[midnight kiln]

and Quintus probably wouldn't have immediately resorted to trying to kill Max 😭

aside from Max holding him at gun point first

[topaz fjord]

Their were other ways to approach it, lie claim resistance he died in line of duty

[midnight kiln]

Max ain't the smartest cookie 😭

[topaz fjord]

Regarding harkness

[inner marten]

I don’t think he’s stupid I think he knows quintus was smart enough to smell bullshit so having the convo at gunpoint is his best odds

[midnight kiln]

it still would've likely resulted in civil war tho

[topaz fjord]

Would it if they thought he died to robots, mutants, raiders

[midnight kiln]

because the Brotherhood are more shoot first - ask questions later

[inner marten]

They would questing the fact that only the one guy from the commonwealth died and it was from a sledgehammer to the top of the helmet

[midnight kiln]

it's still very politically shshbshsbs suspicious and i can't remember the other word

[inner marten]

Plus the power armor records video

[midnight kiln]

people have started wars over far less

[topaz fjord]

I wonder if the brotherhoods still at war or someones arrived to bring order

[midnight kiln]

INCRIMINATING is the word i forgor

they're at war

they went big boom boom, so, probably not doing very well 😭

Maxson will likely be on his way though.

[outer lake]

one can only hope

tho i think the chances are still fairly low

[midnight kiln]

He'll try to, but it'll require a lot more bloodshed depending on who survived the initial attack, as well as how he'll view Max and Thaddeus being in possession of cold fusion (CRAZY THEORY - he'll want Thaddeus dead :/ idk why but s o m e t h i n g tells me he won't like how he looks… JUST A THEORY)

[inner marten]

I hope we never see the BOS as an organized faction ever again

[topaz fjord]

Maxson be like just send in the robot

[oblique tulip]

We will

[inner marten]

Maxson considers ghouls abominations too

[midnight kiln]

hopefully he dies because i hate him and want him dead bc fuck you maxson you snobby little cunt

[inner marten]

He will want to kill thadeus(yes Ik he’s not a ghoul)

[midnight kiln]

that is what i implied - yes 😌

[midnight kiln]

same with that

[inner marten]

I’m too tired for sarcasm my bad lol

[midnight kiln]

lmao you're good 😆

[inner marten]

I’m glad Bethesda has fully committed to the brotherhood being evil

Leaves room for another actually good faction in 5

[midnight kiln]

you are my new favourite person.

[topaz fjord]

Which game did that start

[inner marten]

They have been less than ideal in all of their games. I personally see the brotherhood as evil since 1

[oblique tulip]

They were grey in f3

[inner marten]

Your first interaction is them trying to trick you into dying

[midnight kiln]

they've been doomed for corruption since the beginning.

their whole philosophy and ideology is destined to fail.

[midnight kiln]

they were the only solid ones (aside from the ghoul racism), but even all the other chapters completely shunned them because of that.

[inner marten]

Fallout 3 set it up pretty well with the pit but it was ignorable, them hate speaching all ghouls and synths in 4 made it clear to most people with a brain

Lyons was the most moral elder but he had capacity for great evil. Wasteland would be over without him but it doesn’t make him good(despite his very good karma)

[midnight kiln]

shunned them for actually doing the thing that would help keep the Brotherhood alive and worthy of continuing their cause.

even though they dug themselves into a hole

[inner marten]

I think it would be easier to side with the brotherhood if they actually gave us proof that ghouls are dangerous (more then most humans would be anyways)

[simple sparrow]

they can go feral at any time, there is no prediction of that

imagine your neighbor just randomly turns psychotic and starts killing people

[inner marten]

Like the games just doesn’t really support that other then a few random diologs that say it happens fast. We have never seen it in game

[inner marten]

Normal humans do that in the wasteland all the time

[oblique tulip]

A person at anytime can grab a gun and shoot up a place aswell

[midnight kiln]

up until the show introducing that drug, ghouls were said to go feral at any point - which is definitely cause for concern BUT doesn't mean they deserve to just be wiped off the face of the earth 😭

[simple sparrow]

not wiped out, but they oughta be segregated at least

[oblique tulip]

The fuck

[simple sparrow]

maybe have some ghoul town, wasteland is big enough

[oblique tulip]

Is this nazi Germany

[inner marten]

Yeah like, just make a rule that ghouls can’t sleep in the same building as non ghouls (yes I know this is segregation) and it’s a non issue. But also we have zero evidence that they actually turn over night with zero signs

[midnight kiln]

I THINK WHAT THEY MEAN IS A PLACE LIKE NECROPOLIS BUT THE IMPLICATION IS WILD

[inner marten]

Just separate sleeping arrangements solve the whole issue

[oblique tulip]

They are implying only ghouls can go into those cities

[simple sparrow]

yeah if they sleep in another town

[inner marten]

A feral ghoul isn’t hard to kill. As long as it only attacks during the day they are fine

[inner marten]

Literally just a different room solves the issue lol

Ferals don’t breakdown doors

[simple sparrow]

in game yeah, but neither do deathclaws gameplay-wise

[inner marten]

Ghouls need less food and water, don’t get sick or spread disease, have great pre war knowledge, can survive attacks the humans can’t, and can be used to loot areas with ferals. The positives outweigh the negatives by like 100

[oblique tulip]

And most super mutants ignore them

[inner marten]

We have zero examples of ghouls going feral instantly and attacking people, just one dialog mention from one guy

The show has made it clear that it’s pretty slow

[oblique tulip]

It seems they need a large doose at once to become feral instantly but they'd be ferals allready

[midnight kiln]

i don't think humans and ghouls should be segregated as that'll just cause more oppression, misunderstandings, and uneducated opinions.

but at the same time, settlements could have ghoul-only only rooms (like living quarters and medical facilities) for ghouls who believe they may be at risk of becoming feral, or are showing signs of becoming feral.

[bold nest]

BOS is still set to have some huge moment during the season if we go off the soundtrack

[inner marten]

And the humans nearby would be dead already too

[inner marten]

Literally just don’t sleep in the same room as a ghoul and the instant feral risk is zero

[midnight kiln]

you forget the ghoulfuckers, my friend.

[inner marten]

They like the risk

[oblique tulip]

Maybe they're into the risk

[simple sparrow]

Would you be willing to bet your life on it? i mean from the POV of a wastelander, like you gotta understand they dont live in modern west, society has broke down, there is no equity guidelines or nothing, apart from education in vaults maybe, but they wouldn't cover ghouls

Think not from a perspective of a comfortable westerner, but from a perspective of a wastelander who kills things daily just to survive. Yeah maybe you'd be quick enough to react if they turn feral, maybe not, maybe they take a long time, maybe they do that instantly. Maybe they'd be in some important fascility at a time, like your food supplies shack or weapon storage.

Also you aren't a behavioral scientist, so you don't know that going feral isn't their fault and is the result of brainrotting, so from your POV those are just some fucked up irradiated people who turn aggressive for no concievable reason and start killing/eating folk. Would you take that risk? Why add another risk on top of all the risks you already take?

[inner marten]

Being ignorant doesn’t excuse being racist

[simple sparrow]

being "racist" beats being dead

[oblique tulip]

I chould use a irl example of this

[inner marten]

This is a quote of all time

[outer lake]

ok ya'll

[simple sparrow]

ghoul arent a race, unlike races there is actual difference for ghouls

[outer lake]

just saying but, getting into a debate against someone with a greek philosopher pfp is usually never a good idea

[oblique tulip]

Dosent defeat my point

[inner marten]

Once again show a single example from any fallout source of a ghoul becoming feral instantly and killing somebody

If you can provide a single source you win

[midnight kiln]

and to include the shows lore: this drug seems something that is hard earned, so unless settlements who can easily provide vials to their ghoul residents and visitors and ensure (via regular medical check-ups) they're taking their dosage and everything is going smoothly, more thorough care is to be put into ghouls at risk of becoming feral are kept humanely and safely away from humans.

[inner marten]

The “ghouls will go feral overnight with no warning and kill you” is in universe fear mongering

[oblique tulip]

Idk is they're a group of pepole we once segregated because we thought they were dangerous and stuff because of there skin🤔

[inner marten]

The vials seem to still be optional, some still don’t need them 200 years later but once the turning starts it’s necessary

[simple sparrow]

what? what distinct group of people there are that universally have this trait that they can just snap and start killing and eating people around them for no reason? there is no such group irl, the closest comparison would be like people with violent schizophenia who take meds and can snap at any moment, and we already kinda isolate them in psych wards

[inner marten]

Can you provide the source for instant snapping and killing people? Who has died like this?

[oblique tulip]

You just need to make up lies about the pepole

That's how racism works

[midnight kiln]

that's real life… which was a wildly incorrect racist superstition deliberately spread to instil apathy and fear.

ghouls, regardless of ethnicity, all have the fear of becoming feral themselves one day. it could be tomorrow, or it could be centuries down the line.

[inner marten]

Yeah ghouls go feral, but it has signs and is easily monitored

[topaz fjord]

Has the show featured a glowing one yet

[oblique tulip]

Bro is lying tho and saying its instant

[vapid lichen]

No

[inner marten]

Any situation that would make a ghoul feral instantly would kill all nearby humans

[simple sparrow]

why take that risk? why spend extra resources on that? this is unforgiving wasteland, not EU committee in a comfortable high income country

[inner marten]

Can you provide a single source or is this all head canon

[topaz fjord]

A non feral one would be cool especially if the church of atom ever spreads

[oblique tulip]

At random a ramdom person chould shoot up a whole town at a instant

[inner marten]

Being prejudice against ghouls out of lack of understanding and fear doesn’t make it moral

[midnight kiln]

love to see more of those little funky weirdos

[inner marten]

Ghouls are extremely valuable members of the community

[topaz fjord]

Now led by a radical glowing one

[inner marten]

Their downsides are easily outweighed by their usefulness

[oblique tulip]

Going feral is no different then a ramdom person deciding i want to kill some pepole and pulling out a automatic gun and shooting up freeside

[inner marten]

Any competent wastelnander knows that

[simple sparrow]

croup manor, rachel, that guy from the show who started snapping and our ghoul ate him, the mayor of diamond city tells you that ghouls are banned because a bunch went feral quickly

camp searchlamp in FNV, legion setup a dirty bomb and people went from normal people to feral ghouls from exposure

[inner marten]

It’s funny cause there are very few ghoul raiders. Almost all ghoul npcs are non hostile

[simple sparrow]

morality died with the old world

[oblique tulip]

That wasn't instant

[inner marten]

The mayor was a synth and lying for the institute lmao, that’s the whole point of the quest

Bro fell for in universe propaganda

[midnight kiln]

nihilism is not how to improve the wasteland bro 😭

[topaz fjord]

Looking at what they did they actually sabotaged an old waste container

[oblique tulip]

The ghouls in search light aren't ferals

Just crazy

[topaz fjord]

Debatable

[oblique tulip]

They don't have the model unless they were to lazy to make a feral ghoul model

[inner marten]

Rachel wasn’t instant she knew she was going feral for days

[midnight kiln]

they probably didn't have the time to, but yeah those guys are feral. iirc there's one ghoulified guy who didn't go feral, but he's depressed about becoming a ghoul and how they probably won't accept him.

[inner marten]

Camp searchlite turned some instantly feral but guess what? There were no humans left alive for it to matter.

The radiation levels that turn ghouls instantly feral is too high for humans to survive anyways

[oblique tulip]

They're time management is awful

[dawn dust]

@uneven pier season 2 character concept art

[topaz fjord]

Imagine a glowing one pontif leading the children of the atom to glory

[oblique tulip]

Are glowing ones like demigods to the church of atom?

[inner marten]

They are prime conduits of atoms will

[topaz fjord]

I think so ghouls are considered holy

[oblique tulip]

Glowing ones are a flesh bag of radiation

[midnight kiln]

honestly don't know hardly anything about the Church of Atom except they're nuts and believe there's universes upon universes within atoms (which iirc is a real life theory too)

but they funky and i like em

[inner marten]

The church of atom seems to actually understand they are in a diverged universe from ours which is cool

If you ignore the fact that physics is completely different and the fallout universe has always been slightly different (aliens and Cthulhu shit)

They believe that when atoms are split in a nuclear explosion it’s actually a nexus that splits the whole universe into two versions

[unique shuttle]

each episode something pops up and I get scared something will happen to dogmeat.

[midnight kiln]

and how they're able to live in the glowing sea without immediately dying 😭😭

[midnight kiln]

-# i might get muted for this BUT PLEASE I SWEAR THIS IS RELEVANT TO WHAT I WANNA CONVEY

this is how i view them

no one laugh it's not a meme

it's a picture to describe my opinion

nothing funny m'kay?

[simple sparrow]

You have to think from the POV of the wastelander, not from a guy who reads fallout wiki and has universal knowledge. Why risk it? Yes, people can snap too, that is why you vet them and don't let random raiders in to your community, but only those you trust and who don't present risk factors. Being a ghoul is a risk factor, yes it can be slow, yes it can be not deciding, i.e. if you trust that ghoul a lot, but overall it is a risk factor on top of already risky wasteland.

Giving them vials, monitoring, doing medical checkups and etc -- with already scarce resources? This isn't EU, there are already many hardships to add another strain to the community. Sure if society can afford it, like prime NCR, or if it needs to regularly scavenge some radiation ruins then they can take in ghouls, that would weight in into their calculation, but going feral would be a risk factor to consider. Some farming community that hasn't have resources to monitor and provide vials would be prudent to turn them away.

And this is not racism, ghoul is a sickness not a race, the closer example would not be race but mental condition -- i.e. not let schizophrenic people into your community, or people with psychotic BPD that is managed but is at risk of snapping.

[midnight kiln]

words are hard sometimes 😔

[midnight kiln]

wow that's ableist as shit

like, real world ableist shit

wtf dude

[oblique tulip]

I whouldnt kill a ghoul for being a ghoul

[simple sparrow]

provide when you can afford it, but don't do it for your community detriment isn't ableist, it is prudent in a world as risky as wasteland

[midnight kiln]

dude, you do realise someone here could have BPD or schizophrenia? this is NOT the type of shit to be saying.

[simple sparrow]

also being "ableist" in tough situations of SURVIVAL makes sense, you need members who are "able" to help, no?
we can combat ableism today because we as a society have a surplus, cool, but wastelanders don't

[outer lake]

aight dude maybe take a step back from the pc abit for now

[midnight kiln]

you're not really taking into the fact that people here in this server could have schizophrenia and BPD, and you just said that shit

[oblique tulip]

So you're just saying murder pepole with issues they can't control

[inner marten]

You understand most racism in the real world is based on lack of knowledge and fear

[midnight kiln]

very dehumanising shit my brother

[oblique tulip]

They dont

[sly iron]

I agree and disagree from this point

Becuase from experience, it sometimes come just by pure hatred

[inner marten]

Like ghouls have and always will be used as analog to analyze race relations in fallout

[simple sparrow]

ehh alright guys, im sorry
I apologize to all schizophrenic and psychotic BPD people on this server, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings

[inner marten]

That’s their whole purpose in the games is to show how fear and hate lead to the oppression of a group of people

[sly iron]

I dont even know what going on
I just came

[silver narwhal]

I’m back and I’m going to complain about the show some more

[inner marten]

Bro thinks ghouls deserve it

[silver narwhal]

they do

[sly iron]

Feral ghouls yes
Non-feral ghouls, depends

[silver narwhal]

don’t want to get feraled on

[inner marten]

Average legion flair

[oblique tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/throwing-tomatoes-spongebob-meme-gif-26952964

[outer lake]

Yo dude gimme some of your free time, you must have loads of it

[inner marten]

Show a single example of a ghoul turning feral without warning

[silver narwhal]

you’re sitting in this channel too buddy… what’s your point?

[sly iron]

Im suprised i am not getting hit by the salad bar from my statement

[silver narwhal]

you kill the ghoul when they turn feral…

[oblique tulip]

Ferals are no longer humans and the only way to help them know is death

[inner marten]

Ghouls don’t turn feral instantly unless there is enough radiation to kill all humans anyways. It’s very predictable

[midnight kiln]

i do get your in-game point. my idea is very idealistic and wouldn't happen. but let's be more careful on including real world people and their mental illnesses and that they don't deserve to just be murdered because of something they didn't ask for.

[simple sparrow]

there is no such thing as "deserve", as deserving implies authority, and authority broke down
moral authority, if there is God, surely is not in the wasteland

there is only pragmatic survival, doing what it takes to survive, and from the POV of wastelanders the prejudice is understandable, because ghouls going feral IMPLIES RISK

and sorry but if you gonna call me racist and saying that this is some analogy for some minorities irl, the racism is on you, because you'd be implying that these communities are at a risk of going crazy and killing people randomly, which, unlike ghouls, they are not

[silver narwhal]

yeah so it’s justified to kill a ghoul when they show signs of turning feral

[outer lake]

Well for one you didn't outright say that all ghouls feral or not should be eradicated

[inner marten]

Yes 100% just not before

Assuming you don’t have anything to stop it

[oblique tulip]

The racism isn't on them

[silver narwhal]

people in this discord think fallout holds the same moral ground as reality

[midnight kiln]

or completely shut away from everyone else because that just makes their issues worse

[inner marten]

Humans go crazy and murder their whole families in real life daily

[simple sparrow]

yeah that is why you vet them and consider all risk factors, you don't let raiders into your community. and being a ghoul is a risk factor

[inner marten]

And morality exists in all situations, just because there are strenuous factors doesn’t mean you can just be evil

[midnight kiln]

this a heated topic huh

[inner marten]

If you think otherwise you have a weak moral code

[oblique tulip]

Whould you let Xander kill all the ghoul children?

[simple sparrow]

its not evil to look out for yourself

[sly iron]

Yes

[oblique tulip]

It can be

[silver narwhal]

We’re talking fallout here. Applying real world morals to a post apocalyptic game where everything is scarce, and the world is a literal wasteland will just bend you out of shape.

[inner marten]

Murdering Sombody because they have a slightly higher risk of hurting you in the future isn’t morally correct

You could just ignore them or go somewhere else if you are so scared

[oblique tulip]

The enclave isn't evil they were only looking out for them selfs

[silver narwhal]

the enclave wasn’t written well anyways

[inner marten]

Morals don’t change, good is good bad is bad

[silver narwhal]

They do. Morals are conditional.

[oblique tulip]

That doesn't matter in this topic but ok

[midnight kiln]

fallout itself has similar moral debates in game without the player being present.

[simple sparrow]

calling a wastelander ableist because he doesn't want to get eaten by a ghoul one night is crazy

[inner marten]

When did I ever say that term?

[sly iron]

Eh these moral discussion
Too complicated

Look, i have a simple idea on who is right and who is wrong

[simple sparrow]

also never have I said that people should kill ghouls, just turn them away

[inner marten]

Ghouls are actually more capable then humans

[simple sparrow]

watch them closely

[oblique tulip]

So let them die in the wasteland?

[sly iron]

Who is paying me the most?
Is that guy, well then that guy is right

[inner marten]

Hurting people that don’t want to hurt you is bad. Hurting people out of fear and not genuine thought is bad.

[simple sparrow]

lemme leave my home because some ghoul decided to move in

[midnight kiln]

brother no one is calling you ableist for that tf?? 😭😭

[worthy solar]

I mean, if we take the new 'ghouls require magic serum' detail from the show, it kinda gives way too much ammo to anti-ghoul folk.

[sly iron]

Nah
WHoever pays me is the right option
Dont bother with morals

[inner marten]

He’s straw man-ing now

[inner marten]

We have zero evidence all ghouls need it

Only ones already going feral

Roger says he didn’t show signs till the past 20 years

[oblique tulip]

The drug stops you going from feral you dont need it you aren't going feral

[midnight kiln]

brother… with all due respect, of which is very little at the moment: you keep spouting nonsensical shit 😭🙏

[silver narwhal]

I completely disagree with your stance. You don’t understand that Fallout doesn’t hold the same welfare as our world. We can go back and forth but that won’t do anything.

[radiant birch]

I think it’s like rabies: when you start to show symptoms the clock is already ticking

[midnight kiln]

this is NOT helping you win your argument when your argument MAKES NO SENSE??????????

[simple sparrow]

morals are evolutionary, whatever leads to survival is moral, because otherwise whoever held that morality died off and didn't propagate it. unless of course you believe in god, then morality comes from him i guess

[worthy solar]

And if Old Man Withers down the road is starting to show signs of going feral, literally anyone with a gun can nip it in a bud rather quick.

[silver narwhal]

I love Honest Hearts

[oblique tulip]

I can bring up alot of irl issues with this

[sly iron]

wait i have question
how is this related to ep 5 just to confirm
i am a bit lost over here

[inner marten]

The thing is is that this whole fear of ghouls thing doesn’t add up in universe, most locations are friendly and have ghouls as critical parts of their infrastructure. It’s only randos and brotherhood that are the ghoul haters

[radiant birch]

Bro is Micah Bell

[silver narwhal]

you guys are literally Lucy Maclean incarnate

[worthy solar]

And also the Enclave, but they hate anyone not completely in line with their definition of 'purity'.

[oblique tulip]

Thanks for calling us good pepole

[simple sparrow]

😹

[midnight kiln]

idk how this happened. it started out as a debate about what to do with ghouls and whether they should be segregated (which Hadrian started with the segregation thing) for some reason, and now we're here idk 😭

[inner marten]

Morality is based on empathy, if you lack empathy for others you don’t have morality

[simple sparrow]

in realistic scenario you wouldn't have plot armor though

[silver narwhal]

yeah in reality bro… this is the Fallout network

[midnight kiln]

that means a lot, actually!! ty <3

[silver narwhal]

if Lucy was on her own she’d be ant meat by now

[radiant birch]

It’s mainly because people actually understand what a “ghoul” is. In 2161 a ghoul is a monster, in 2281 a ghoul is your drinking buddy

[inner marten]

Yall act like every town with a ghoul in it has died

[sly iron]

drinks
Usually fallout general is this chaotic

[inner marten]

They have proof that they are safe and useful but still support their misguided hate

[simple sparrow]

empathy is being able to imagine someone's else situation, you guys are not able to imagine the average wastelander's situation and feelings. it is easy for you to be moral and righteous in a comfortable country with perfect knowledge from fallout wiki, but place yourselves in the shoes of wastelanders who already kills things daily just to survive

[midnight kiln]

at least we'd die as good people, not whatever this mess is what is even happening any more i give up

[oblique tulip]

You're not understanding what its like to be a ghoul

[inner marten]

Every town in every game basically has a ghoul who is a critical part of the community. They have proof and examples proving ghouls are good for their survival

[simple sparrow]

cool, but there is no reward you'd just die and someone else will take your place

[inner marten]

But you chose to suppport the random racists

[midnight kiln]

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUTTT WHATSHJSKSLSL

[silver narwhal]

It’s all on the margin. By killing Xander, Maximus triggered the death of hundreds. It’s not morally sound. It’s not goody goody goody.

[oblique tulip]

Strawman of the year reward

[radiant birch]

I mean I could understand people during and before Fallout 1 killing ghouls, but by the time Fallout 2 happens, California (at least) is too civilized to justify doing what’s “necessary”

[midnight kiln]

i don't expect an award for doing the right thing, even if i die??

[inner marten]

Hot take People that want to murder children should die

[topaz fjord]

The only people not bothered by ghoulification are moria brown and hancock

[midnight kiln]

i'd do the right thing because doing the right thing is the reward

[oblique tulip]

Moria dosent even know she is one

[silver narwhal]

I’m not arguing that he should’ve killed the ghouls lol. By preventing their death he caused the death of others.

[inner marten]

Thanks for having g a measured reasonable view of things

[midnight kiln]

unless it comes to the Brotherhood - i want them ALL gone

[inner marten]

That not on him

Maximus did the right thing

[simple sparrow]

morality has aesthetic judgement, whatever feels and looks good at the moment, pragmatic implications and analysis is not what drives it, because that would make the whole affair fall apart rather quickly

[radiant birch]

By the time New Vegas happens, ghouls aren’t some mysterious scary monster that can snap at any second. There would be some understanding of how ghouls go feral, how they heal via radiation, how much food and water they need, etc

[inner marten]

A faction based on killing a specific group of people because they are different should not exists

[topaz fiber]

Can see the kings school of impersonation in the back, hope we get to see more of them

[inner marten]

Yeah almost every city in 3, 4 and nv has ghouls in it. We have zero examples of them going feral overnight. This is all in universe hate mongering

[radiant birch]

Same principle for Super Mutants. Their mental conditions are being studied, one example of this is Doc Henry in Jacobstown working on the Nightkin Schizophrenia

[silver narwhal]

By protecting those children he resulted in the death of his chapter. You can’t argue with that. He killed people. It’s not morally sound. You can’t do whatever you think to be the “good thing” in Fallout and expect it work in your favor.

[inner marten]

Yeah killing evil people isn’t a bad thing

[topaz fiber]

Indoctrinated not really evil

[inner marten]

His chapter killed the people of filly and propagate genocide

[inner marten]

“Just following orders”

[oblique tulip]

Good soilders follow orders

[worthy solar]

And honestly, it was the right thing for his character as well. Civil war was gonna happen regardless, all Maximus did was accelerate the timetable a bit.

[topaz fiber]

Under Quintus, should remember most BOS recruits are taken as literal children and raised under that propaganda their whole life

[inner marten]

Yeah and people can break away from that like he and thadeous did. He made sure to save the children

[sly iron]

Agreed

[inner marten]

The others were ready to start a civil war anyways

[midnight kiln]

okay this actually got back on track good job guys :D

[topaz fiber]

Max had the advantage of living in shady sands and experiencing an actually nice place to live with good people

[radiant birch]

There’s no “pure good everybody wins” scenario in Fallout.

[sly iron]

So anyways
Let discuss the morality and effectiveness of slavery that the legion uses

[oblique tulip]

Well thadeous didn't leave by choice he got some of that chicken juice

[midnight kiln]

SHSSSSHHHHHHHH

[inner marten]

No but there are morally correct stances and choices to make

[worthy solar]

But there could at least be a 'good enough' outcome. Perfect is the enemy of good, after all.

[midnight kiln]

nvm shit's getting out of hand again

[sly iron]

You literally stated it was being on track
Everyone in this server and their grandmas know you dont say that and not expect things to be off topic

[inner marten]

A good brotherhood member would brain themselves

[topaz fiber]

Also pretty sure he joined the bos when he was in his teens because he tells a story about how he used to work on a farm as a "shitter"

[radiant birch]

Effectiveness? Honestly Caesar did an immaculate job at organizing the Legion to be the perfect cult

[oblique tulip]

Best lore addition

[radiant birch]

The Legionaries themselves are technically slaves too lol

[silver narwhal]

What would’ve happened? We don’t know. We do know that what he did preemptively started the war and resulted in death and destruction between the meeting chapters. The weird looking guy who stole cold fusion logically would be incapable of getting all innocents out of harms way.

[orchid crow]

Incredibly intelligent are well organized

[sly iron]

That was a joke
Do not actively discuss this
Drop it please because it aint episode 5 discussion worthy and belong in fallout general

[radiant birch]

They just get more room to run around

[midnight kiln]

[radiant birch]

Not supporting it dawg

[silver narwhal]

that’s why we in Rome baby

[inner marten]

Oh so you are just a bigot got it

[outer lake]

"weird looking guy"?

[simple sparrow]

deontology vs consequentialism
and they say youth is not interested in philosophy 🫡

[silver narwhal]

yeah he looks funny

[midnight kiln]

SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 🤫

[inner marten]

It all makes sense now

[outer lake]

their name is Dane

[silver narwhal]

there’s a lot of weird looking guys in the fallout show I don’t care for their names

[sly iron]

Anyways
I really wanna know what they gonna do with maximus and thabbasus story line
Why would they go to the strip is a question i wanna know why

[inner marten]

Yeah but you singled Sombody out on purpose

[silver narwhal]

lol call me a Bigot if you don’t wanna argue ig

[radiant birch]

https://tenor.com/view/it-all-make-sense-now-rdr2-arthur-morgan-red-dead-redemption-2-gif-12786082745371615911

[simple sparrow]

they gonna bring cold fusion to lucku 38 and boot up mr house mainframe

[midnight kiln]

GOD DAMMIT GUYS CAN WE NOT

[silver narwhal]

I can say the weird looking guy who sodomizes chickens

The weird looking guy who holds an incest club

[radiant birch]

I think more depictions of Caesar’s Legion should focus on the civilian aspects or the religious aspect

[silver narwhal]

I don’t care for all of these pointless characters. I also don’t care for their names.

[inner marten]

But you didn’t, you never called anyone else weird until a specific person don’t take me for an idiot here

[topaz fiber]

Not everything is an attack on trans

[silver narwhal]

yeah the specific person being the person who stole cold fusion

the weird looking guy who sodomizes chickens didn’t steal cold fusion.. did he?

[inner marten]

It was pretty blatant

[midnight kiln]

oh by weird looking guy you meant Max….

[silver narwhal]

I don’t even think the actor is trans

[midnight kiln]

yeahhhh… that might not go over very well?

[topaz fiber]

Not really lol I thought they meant the old man from s1 at first

[midnight kiln]

OH DANE my bad

[pulsar lake]

[midnight kiln]

PLEASE HELP

[inner marten]

Like it’s pretty blatant transphobia

[radiant birch]

the Legion is bad but one must admit they are not physically weak

[topaz fiber]

No not really stop finding problems where there is none

[inner marten]

You didn’t single anyone else out for their appearance on the conversation

[silver narwhal]

I didn’t say anything about trans people bro.. I also won’t talk about this anymore cuz I don’t wanna get muted.

[radiant birch]

The machine is fueled by the blood of legionaries, slaves, and civilians

[inner marten]

Why would you get muted?

[silver narwhal]

cuz this is off topic

not episode 5 of the fallout show

[inner marten]

We’re talking about the show

[radiant birch]

They invade a new land. They control the land, convert the population, and use all the new resources to prepare for the next invasion

[silver narwhal]

this server is stricter than a catholic school

[midnight kiln]

i do agree. i apologise for shushing you - just trying to prevent some of these certain… heavily opinioned people from getting more insane

[inner marten]

You can talk about all previous episodes

[topaz fiber]

Dane is weird looking doesn't matter if they're trans lol

[orchid crow]

As someone who went to catholic school for 12 years, this is untrue lol

[silver narwhal]

My dad told me nuns used to slap his wrist

[midnight kiln]

i don't fuck with his stache, but otherwise i think he looks fine

[topaz fiber]

To get offended over someone calling someone weird looking just because that person is trans is pretty cringe ngl

Especially when them being trans had nothing to do with it

[silver narwhal]

I actually think the actor looks normal outside of the show.

[pulsar lake]

[orchid crow]

Their name is Dane right, the one who took cold fusion?

[radiant birch]

It’s a permanent war that works well because Caesar’s Legion has so many soldiers that they can afford to split them into groups

[midnight kiln]

yuh

[outer lake]

yes

[inner marten]

Yeah it’s just a coincidence the only person insulted based on their appearance in this chat was a trans person okay all

[outer lake]

the actor Xelia goes by he/they irl, in show Dane is non-binary

[midnight kiln]

ohhh

[orchid crow]

I really liked the "you never have to apologize for not killing someone" line they said

[midnight kiln]

hey man, i mean they

[inner marten]

Actually morally sound people for once

[sly iron]

what?

[outer lake]

at that scene i was like "aight Dane you cool af"

[topaz fiber]

They're not a bad character

[silver narwhal]

I think it would’ve been cooler if the two warring tribes had been separated in their camps but it’s whatever

[topaz fiber]

Lol separated by 5ft

[orchid crow]

In all honesty, despite it being beautiful I actually think it's going to be a thing that comes back to bite them. I think Dane is gonna get killed specifically by the person Maximus doesn't finish off, making those words horribly bittersweet

[pulsar lake]

.. its the legion

[silver narwhal]

and some conveniently placed sand

[midnight kiln]

i'll send you the meme i'm referencing about me mistaking Dane's gender for being male

[topaz fiber]

It's funny cuz it's dumb

[pulsar lake]

them being absolute jokes is 100% intentional and in alignment with their past portrayals

[worthy solar]

Nelson and Forlorn Hope were separated by a much bigger No Man's Land, let's not forget.

[brave prairie]

[sly iron]

LEGION?!?!
CHOKES SHOTGUN
WHERE

[inner marten]

Yes I agree, still is very morally sound

[radiant birch]

I don’t think the legion is an ABSOLUTE joke

[brave prairie]

they def are

[topaz fiber]

Wonder when we will see them again

[worthy solar]

In any case, maybe Lacerta can get the Legion wrangled into something more intimidating than the average Fiend warband, perhaps.

[silver narwhal]

I’m a very impartial person on this. The Legion is definitely not a joke in the sense that they are very powerful.

[orchid crow]

The legion isn't a joke faction, deciding you aren't going to take them seriously doesn't mean they aren't written to be a serious faction

[radiant birch]

Their philosophy and culture is a joke but their structure and army isn’t lol

If they were a joke then the NCR would’ve stomped them six times over

[inner marten]

They were pretty comical. They left a truck full of radioactive barrels perfectly above their camp despite many warnings. The guy who warned them starts wearing a rad suit after they die and makes jokes about not following proper wasteland safety

[sly iron]

You're right
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
There you go
Now there are a joke

[pulsar lake]

the legion has been a threat but theyve always been goofballs.

Them devolving into a civil war over caesar's corpse after his death 100% makes sense due to how the legion was portrayed and acted, it was a cult of personality, they collapse when their leader dies

[silver narwhal]

I’d say Edward Sallow brainwashing a ton of untouched tribals into pseudo-romans is a pretty dope and funny trope.

[topaz fiber]

In NV all of the legion plans are ready to go for the final battle they only get screwed up when we come along, so if the courier didn't exist they'd easily win the second battle

[orchid crow]

I don't fully agree, but I do think this is a huge improvement to how most people view them. It's like cazadors in OWB, it's kinda silly conceptually and the dialogue surrounding them involves humor, but in practice it's absolutely terrifying and serious.

[worthy solar]

That just means they just need someone to inherit Caesar's cult of personality or whip up a new one.

[inner marten]

The legion is cool but they were always ridiculous in concept

[pulsar lake]

and two of them did, hence their civil war, lol

[orchid crow]

I simply disagree, and I don't much care to debate if a faction is at all serious, I genuinely don't think either of is is gonna get the other one to budge at all on it.

[sly iron]

We should also add that we see the legion in new vegas from the protagnists eyes who is the most powerful thing in their respective game

[topaz fiber]

The civil war must have been going on for awhile so I wonder how many different Caesars they've had

[sly iron]

The legion feels like a joke because often times, you are using guns and they are using melee

[silver narwhal]

That makes it even sillier

[orchid crow]

100%, if the legion was within 100 miles of anyone that person would be shitting their pants

[worthy solar]

Those two Caesars we saw clearly aren't fit to manage a Red Rocket gas station, let alone lead the former second-biggest known faction west of the Mississippi.

[sly iron]

but we are the courier and we make people shit deathclaw eggs

[silver narwhal]

It’s part of the reason they’re so effective against the NCR. The NCR doesn’t possess proper supply lines to give their soldiers ammunition (especially after the divide).

[inner marten]

I also feel like their are more legion outside the camp, they either are doing their own thing or following whichever ceaser they pick

[sly iron]

Incomoponent leaders and supply lines is the major reason the NCR will lose the battle of dam

[inner marten]

They say they are in active war so they can’t all be in the camp

[topaz fiber]

One group appears to be going towards Nellis AFB

[midnight kiln]

they're out measuring dick sizes or something idk

[radiant birch]

The Legion’s whole strategy is to be as aggressive as humanly possible

[silver narwhal]

To terrorize the shit out of the NCR

[midnight kiln]

red-pilled

[topaz fiber]

The freeside people still seemed to think NCR was around too so it can't just be those 3 at the camp

[silver narwhal]

tbf I think if the divide had not happened the legion would’ve been pushed out of Nevada entirely

[midnight kiln]

would they tho…?

[silver narwhal]

That was a major NCR supply line

[midnight kiln]

iirc it was implied they were kinda winning

[radiant birch]

Agree

[silver narwhal]

The first battle of Hoover dam

[topaz fiber]

The legion was already ambushing that supply line making it hard before the divide nukes happened, Ulysses says

[orchid crow]

"The legion is a joke faction"
If you think Lanius gouging out the eyes of his sex slaves so they can never see his face is a funny haha, I don't know what to say to that.

[radiant birch]

Despite the Legion being the Legion, the NCR has the material advantage

[silver narwhal]

I actually didn’t know that. Nonetheless some supply is better than none.

[radiant birch]

Legion has more things but NCR has better things

[inner marten]

Joke factions can do things that aren’t jokes

[topaz fiber]

I wonder if the vehicles we see in the highway were NCR working vehicles

[midnight kiln]

no after all that - by the events of New Vegas beginning, it's implied the Legion could actually demolish the NCR remaining in Vegas

[orchid crow]

While true, almost every single action they take and character you meet from them is played seriously. The idea that wearing skirt = joke faction is intensely silly to me

[midnight kiln]

50/40 type of odds tho

[inner marten]

I wish they would just show vehicles but I bet Bethesda asked them not to so fans don’t go crazy about wanting them in the next game

[silver narwhal]

That’s true. I’m saying that if the NCR had adequate supply at the time of the first battle the Legion wouldve been way weaker.

[midnight kiln]

OHHHH my bad

[topaz fiber]

NCR does have nice things but since it's a democracy type thing they don't always send the best stuff, like NCR in Mojave is severely handicapped because they're keeping all the good stuff back home because the politicians back home don't see it as a serious war

Too bad some of that shit got nuked

[midnight kiln]

Bethesda originally was gonna have Mama Murphy cruise around in a motorised wheelchair, but opted out because it would be too difficult to implement - a wheelchair…

and knowing how janky the Bethesda engine is, not surprised.

[silver narwhal]

Ironically the NCR needs Hoover Dam to survive in the long term.

[topaz fiber]

Probably

[silver narwhal]

That would’ve been so funny

[midnight kiln]

meanwhile the Fallout: New Frontier did it… but we won't talk anymore about that

for obvious reasons

[silver narwhal]

Unrelated but… I hope they give us a ton of new concepts and stuff in Fallout 5.

All of the games have been built off already established material

[midnight kiln]

IF Bethesda makes it within our lifetimes 😭

[silver narwhal]

trump will make it for them

[midnight kiln]

😭??

[silver narwhal]

Fallout in real life

[midnight kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-hide-hiding-laugh-trying-not-to-laugh-not-laugh-gif-15085489

[topaz fjord]

Could been nuka girl but no its cappy

[inner marten]

Man if I had a nickel for every mod I’ve downloaded that turned out to be disguised fetish content I’d have a lot nickels

[silver narwhal]

reminds me of that hyped up New Vegas mod that turned out to have death claw sex

[inner marten]

That’s literally the one they are talking about

[silver narwhal]

Oh lol

Don’t read

[inner marten]

Just has to stop shitting his pants first

[topaz fjord]

And yet fisto is offical

[spark cloud]

Don't talk about my husband that way

[pulsar lake]

Psst, yall are threading the line.

Keep stuff relevant to episode 5.

[outer lake]

Wherever hank is, kinda funny that it just keeps a stock of fresh suits and formal wear

[worthy solar]

Guy still is gainfully employed, and you don't show up for work looking like a hobo.

[inner marten]

Fisto is different then having a barely legal sex slave follower

That mod needs to be purged from our collective memory

[midnight kiln]

y'all weren't lying about his stupid ass hat

☝️🤓

[shy apex]

Croup manor had them turn into feral ghouls instantly. That’s because of the massive amount of radiation, roger from the show had been turning for weeks by that point.

The mayor of diamond city is a synth and benefits from no one banding together, that’s his whole job

[midnight kiln]

BRO NO NO DON'T SUMMON HIM ABAIN PLEAEE

[shy apex]

I must inform the wrong

[inner marten]

I already did they don’t care

[midnight kiln]

YOU DONT UNDERTAND

YOU CANT INFORM YOUR WAY THROUGH SHIT WIGH THEM

https://tenor.com/view/speak-gif-9578947274896178319

^ THAT WILL BE YOU

[inner marten]

“But ghouls can turn feral so we should exterminate them”

[midnight kiln]

"lemme use real world examples of people with mental illnesses that totally won't sound ableist as fuck"

THEYRE BACK

[worthy solar]

To be fair, it looks like the same doodad on his head in NV when you yank him out of that stasis pod before introducing him to the business end of a nine iron.

[outer lake]

i vote we exterminate discord users

[simple sparrow]

pls dont take the wrong message about me, im not some nazi or racist, I was just underlining that living in a wasteland would imply a level of pragmatism that is not in line with modern society's moral sensibilities

[midnight kiln]

brother

i hope life treats you well. but you said some real concerning things and refused to believe otherwise even when proven wrong.

[outer lake]

it more or less is

[inner marten]

They have zero reason to be afraid of ghouls other then Fear mongering, there are zero confirmed instances of ghouls turning feral without obvious signs or radiation that would kill everyone else anyways

[simple sparrow]

you are behaving like a catholic priest admonishing a sinful deviate from scripture lmao, drop the high horse and condescending manner

[midnight kiln]

is cord glitching I can only see withered House tiddies

[inner marten]

Their hate of ghouls is completely based on mis-information

[midnight kiln]

…sigh

yes, how dare i admonish you for being the thing you currently are - what you're projecting onto me

[shy apex]

https://tenor.com/view/o-rocha-andre-jesus-do-rock-joas-gif-21128480

i mean lets be real, fallout is very accurate in its showing of everythign ghoul, we just have the benefit of being the audience

[midnight kiln]

do you want me to polish your toilet for you, sire? however can i make it up to you

[outer lake]

forgot how pathetic he looks tbh, be a better mercy to put him outta his misery each playthrough

[midnight kiln]

want me to read you a bedtime story about how schizophrenics and BPD's should be ostracised from society?

[silver narwhal]

They murdered my guy mister hose

[midnight kiln]

whatever your will may be, sire.

i am but your humble servant

you are 100% right. how could i have been so foolish.

[outer lake]

ehh best to leave it there dude

[midnight kiln]

yeah

-# but i had so many more good ones lined up… a shame

😔

[midnight kiln]

real talk: i agree with that statement right there on it's own.

[simple sparrow]

what was the issue? bringing up irl mental conditions? ok, sorry for that and to all mentally ill people if such are present in the server. but the purpose for that point was to show that ghoul isn't a race, it is a condition

[midnight kiln]

well, it is a condition but also a race - as that is what's simply occurred over time in the Fallout universe.

[inner marten]

It’s literally considered a race in the games

They are functional a separate race from mainline humans that’s their whole point

[uncut blaze]

i think rafi silver and justin theroux should fuse so they can become the perfect mr house

[inner marten]

I think they should kiss

[simple sparrow]

this perhaps is the crux of our misunderstading, you are taking the POV of an omniscient narrator who has a full access to fallout wiki and knows meta knowledge about the franchise, its allegories, messages, and full history of the lore
my point was that from the POV of a wastelander it is a very different picture, and the Lucy style idealism without Lucy style plot armor would end up with you dying in a ditch very quickly

but you will die a good person, sure

[midnight kiln]

how did you take ghouls being a race and end up with us dying

[inner marten]

Brother they have zero reason to think ghouls are going to murder them in their sleep

It’s literally just made up

Like we have zero examples of it happening

Most people live in communities with least one ghoul who they don’t feet

It’s just the brotherhood( who have the most ability to know better) and some random people who propagate the misinformation and hate

[midnight kiln]

Hadrian, genuinely not trying to make fun of you: are you alright? i'm a little concerned about you.

this is a very extreme swing

like, there's being realistic, and then there's jumping to pure nihilism.

[simple sparrow]

this is not what nihilism is, btw, also haven't said anything problematic

[simple sparrow]

Lucy style idealism without Lucy style plot armor would end up with you dying in a ditch very quickly
perfectly in line with what has been said

[midnight kiln]

this is why i'm concerned about you

[simple sparrow]

okay thanks for your concern I guess

[radiant birch]

But the average wastelander likely wouldn’t be clueless

[midnight kiln]

pragmatic - my bad

[radiant birch]

The average wastelander now has a job

[inner marten]

Yeah ghouls aren’t rare most people know they are just stinky people

It’s only the brotherhood and some randos am that are militant against them out of pure hate

[midnight kiln]

kinda hard to miss someone who's actively rotting yet up and walking about

or hearing about them

[radiant birch]

I understand most wastelanders would be racist to ghouls during the 2100’s

[midnight kiln]

everyone in the fallout universe knows what ghouls are

unless they're sheltered vaulties

[midnight kiln]

it's natural to fear what you don't understand, in turn learning to also hate it. but just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's automatically wrong.

[radiant birch]

Also during the 2100’s everybody would just be killing each other regardless if they’re ghoul or not

[midnight kiln]

unless it's actively trying to eat your face, then maybe shoot it.

yeah, everyone is suspicious of everything and everyone.

[radiant birch]

But now wastelanders have Jobs

[midnight kiln]

you walk like a potential threat, you talk like a potential threat, you act like a potential threat - people are probably gonna shoot ya

[radiant birch]

and there’s Casinos now

[white steeple]

Greetings dwellers, just thought about this, I think we'll get Muties next ep bc who ELSE is gonna pull Coop off that pole?? Nobody nearly tall enough lmfao

[timber wing]

He pulls himself off it

[plucky knot]

Followers of apocolapyse will help him

[midnight kiln]

oh shit that’s a meme ihhhhh

DELTE???

y'all didn't see that

must've been a fart in the wind

[midnight kiln]

would love to see my favourite faction

the only faction i completely fuck with 😭

[white steeple]

Love this so much. They are gonna have to do some crazy writing though to make sense of the Enclave being connected to the Howard family

[inner marten]

The coincidence is crazy but it’s a train computer

How is it relevant

[remote depot]

were the dwellers of 32 and 33 also subjects to FEV?

[inner marten]

Not yet

[orchid crow]

There has GOT to be a connection there, it's far too close to not be

[worthy solar]

Perhaps Janey turns out to be the Enclave's POV character like Maximus is/was for the Brotherhood?

[unique locust]

they were definitely being genetically groomed to be the perfect hosts for a new, corporate branded version of the FEV

I really liked how Mr.House just crashed out to Coop

[worthy solar]

Dude exuded that 'Now be a good Courier and deliver it' energy.

[shadow condor]

i really don't get why he gave Coop a monologue saying that his genius doomsday computer kept being wrong

[long hemlock]

It's not that it was wrong, it was that Cooper's family are tied to world ending

[shadow condor]

yeah he's certified

[white steeple]

Doubtful considering Janey didn't grow up in a military camp

[unique locust]

I don't think you're a cowboy at all!!! I think you're a killer!!!

[shadow condor]

but if it hasn't predicted anything right idk why House thinks theres a secret faction (which there definitely will be)

[worthy solar]

True, I'm just spitballing just in case Hank was bullshitting Coop and Barb and Janey aren't actually in those cryopods.

[white steeple]

Honestly thinking about it now it'd be fucking insane if they pulled a Shaun/Institute situation with Janey and Barb

[long hemlock]

House believes his predictive algorithm is correct, its that Cooper's actions can change the prediction.

[white steeple]

I wonder what action Cooper did in Pre-War that caused the bombs to actually fall then. Perhaps "the talk" that he refers to with Barb that we havent seen yet will end the world

[shadow condor]

yeah it was just like 12 years off seems like a broken machine

[long hemlock]

What?

[shy apex]

theres no shadow in them, but that may not actually mean anything

[remote depot]

did House want the freaky mind-control tech to use it on deathclaws and super mutants to weaponize them?

[shadow condor]

House said the computer predicted the world would end in 2065, it didn't end until 2077

[long hemlock]

Janey's birthday is what gave him his first prediction of when the Great War would occur, not that April 14th 2065 was to be the day of the great war

[white steeple]

Yeah thats just not true lmao. House was ONLY unable to save New Vegas because the Chip wasn't delivered

[worthy solar]

The look on Coop's face if that's the case would be downright heartbreaking. It'd be the Shaun/Institute thing on steroids, honestly.

[shadow condor]

yeah he obviously figures it out closer to the time

[white steeple]

???? so what is your point

[shadow condor]

Coop said the same thing lol, his pc is bs and he's a lunatic

[long hemlock]

"The **date of the end of the world **may not interest you, Mr. Howard. But the date the data coalesced might."

[white steeple]

You say House isn't all hes cooked up to be yet you said he figured it all out lol

[long hemlock]

please actually listen to the dialogue

[shadow condor]

just House saying "I have this amazing machine that keeps predicting the end of the world and getting it wrong"

[unique locust]

The show leaves a massive gap in Cooper Howard’s timeline tbh

We see him escape the initial blasts on horseback with his daughter, Janey.

Yet, 200 years later, Cooper is a Ghoul searching for his family, while Barb and Janey are implied to be safe in a high level Vault-Tec cryo chamber.

This raises a huge question for me. What happened between the horse ride and the cryopods? If Cooper had Janey, how did he lose her to Vault-Tec, and why was he the only one left behind to rot?

[white steeple]

Its WRONG because of actions Cooper is taking to somehow disrupt it, and he hates it because for once in his life HE DOESNT KNOW SOMETHING

[long hemlock]

He didn't say the world would end on April 14th 2065, he said that that was the date that his data first gave him a prediction for the end of the world

[shadow condor]

could have been denied at the vault door for being a spy

[worthy solar]

And for all we know, Moldaver could be playing Coop as well for some agenda of her own.

[shadow condor]

yeah i'm saying why tf would Coop believe a word of it when the machine hasn't even been right once

[subtle lark]

so the implication of episode 5 is the house we interact with in F: NV is Rafi? or do we not think that

[shy apex]

Unlikely. And it doesn’t really make much sense

[shadow condor]

i thought him wearing the head contraption was symbolic he'll be in the tank

[shy apex]

House won’t get cold fusion so his plan to become an ai doesn’t go ahead

[shadow condor]

i really wanna know if S1 House actor knew he wasn't the real House

or did he get demoted 💔

[subtle lark]

I assume he knew tbh

[shy apex]

Literally no one except the couriers even get into the lucky 37 to begin with and they don’t see houses body or even know he’s not an ai

[shadow condor]

hope so

[shy apex]

It was the plan from the start according to both actors

[subtle lark]

i think season 2 has made it clear they had a lot of stuff planned since season 1

[shadow condor]

oh nice, i wondered if he did some bad s2 auditions and got replaced or something lol

[subtle lark]

like the mind control stuff is in episode 1 of the show

[topaz fjord]

My comparison was to the deathclaw

[shy apex]

I uh, don’t think there are reauditions

[inner marten]

Because he didn’t have access since they were divorced

[shadow condor]

no but like early rehearsals etc

[topaz fjord]

Yeah he was alan harpered at the start of the show

[unique locust]

They were?

I mean, Were they?

[fading plover]

that is the defense ZAX AI for the presidential metro that connects white house to Adam's Airforce base, Enclave?

[shadow condor]

i still think Thaddeus and Ghoul are special from average ghouls with their near invincibility, Lucy was easily killing ferals but Ghoul can take 20 bullets and impaled on a spike

[shy apex]

Ferals are even more rotted

You’ve got to separate real life from the game logic here,

[inner marten]

Yes the extras at the party say he has to afford alamony some how

[shadow condor]

Thaddeus defo had some super serum we don't know how Ghoul became Ghoul

[shy apex]

She headshot all the feral kings except for the 1 she shot the leg off , headshots kill ghouls

[shadow condor]

i also think Dogmeat is tracked but i think Severance made me too conspiracy obsessed

[shy apex]

She probably headshot the leg lost one too but I can’t remember

He was still thrashing it’s not like that killed him. But ferals ingame lose their legs and just forget they could pull themselves at us

[long hemlock]

Wait where?

[subtle lark]

on the dogs

[long hemlock]

Oh right

[shadow condor]

i still think he could have undergone some experiment shit like s3 flashbacks

[oblique tulip]

What did hank do to our Boi

[shadow condor]

employment

[radiant birch]

I doubt the body double would’ve been put into the system in place of the real House

[oblique tulip]

He chould have gotten into a good vault or something

[subtle lark]

dead mans dog, reference to the ghoul geting penetrated?

[unique locust]

maniac that tests mind controls chips on strangers
all his stuff is apparently powered by cold fusion, which makes the entire fight for Hoover Dam worthless
has a schizo rant towards an actor he just met

[subtle lark]

house doesn't get cold fusion

[unique locust]

I found this on X lol. I think it's funny

[long hemlock]

He says he'd use the cold fusion to power the AI version of him

[unique locust]

Are we serious bro

[robust surge]

I just want more Enclave lore

[inner marten]

House doesn’t get cold fusion

[long hemlock]

"This week, I'm acquiring Cold Fusion from Vault-Tec. It will allow me to stay alive indefinitely in roboticized, non-biological form and protect Las Vegas from the coming nuclear war."

[inner marten]

Yeah, that was a good plan, just like his chip that was a day behind

[inner marten]

Also house has always been a schizo

[subtle lark]

I mean...no it wasn't

[unique locust]

Clearly

[oblique tulip]

Mr house needs cold fusion to be a vtuber

[long hemlock]

It's anti NCR graffiti from New Vegas

[unique locust]

Ever wondered why some fans hate Fallout TV show

I mean, you can't please everyone

[long hemlock]

https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Dead_Man's_Dog_Graffiti

[subtle lark]

o shit I had no idea, ty

[oblique tulip]

They whould be mad regardless how good it is

[subtle lark]

season 2 is really good

[unique locust]

For real bro

[topaz fjord]

Those are the same context

[robust surge]

You mean the hardcore foaming at the mouth fans that when a small change happens they blow a gasket? Those aren’t fans they are in theory gatekeepers

[subtle lark]

yea like House basically lays out how him and cooper have seen shit that makes it clear someoen else is trying to end the world and Coop just goes "nah u crazy dude"

I would get mad also .

[topaz fjord]

House is calm and collected mostly but will get mad

See eating the platinum chip and denying it

[oblique tulip]

Thats a mod

[long hemlock]

I think there is a rule of the universe that the more someone loudly complains about New Vegas being retconned/hated by Bethesda/the show is inversely proportional to how much they actually played the game

[unique locust]

Those fans be angry when the show is not lore accurate

[topaz fjord]

I played a lot of new vegas and like much of what the show does though some bits feel like they need explanation ghoul kings

[robust surge]

Exactly I live along the lines of “I’m just glad we have more fallout”

[oblique tulip]

Most of the bethsida haters likley whould have never even heard of fallout without bethsida

[topaz fjord]

I am more bothered by been teased a story we never see, though maybe lucy just shot the real kings in a drug crazed stupor

[unique locust]

No Fallout 3, no Fallout 4, and definitely no Amazon TV show.

Without the Oblivion engine and Bethesda’s marketing machine, Fallout might have ended up like other classic RPGs that just disappeared

[topaz fjord]

I wonder if the boomers are still shelling everything in sight

[dark needle]

RIP Arcanum

[dark needle]

We are further away from the release of Faalout 4 than fallout 3 qas from fallout 2

[topaz fjord]

Bethesda ever since skyrim

[dark needle]

Still not as bad as rockstar

[oblique tulip]

Gta 6 delayed for ten years

[paper radish]

admittedly that's kind of just the pipeline for most major films/tv shows/games now. People always want higher and higher quality and bigger games or scale or whatever. And then you really quickly get diminishing returns with how long it takes to make something vs the 'quality' increase from years ago.

Which makes it sort of ironic that, while Bethesda continues to be slow as mud releasing games, for the show they're actually releasing at lighting speeds compared to what's standard now for high budget TV shows lol

[subtle lark]

oh shit

I figured it out

[paper radish]

pray enlighten us

[subtle lark]

Hank wants Cold Fusion to make an AI mommy who controls an army of mind controlled super managers, who take over a nuked world

[paper radish]

"AI mommy" is....not what I was expecting to hear

[subtle lark]

Mommy is the LLM in the Vault-Tec HQ

[long hemlock]

I figure the idea behind using FEV on the Vault 33/32 Dwellers is that Bud thought the problem of FEV was the test subjects, not the virus itself and the idea was to create the ideal specimen.

[paper radish]

LOL forgot about that, internet brain got to me

[subtle lark]

so Hank wants Cold Fusion to 1. unlock the nukes and purge the living, but also 2. use the robotic suspension House talks about to upload the LLM

the big clue being Calculator imo

they capitalized it in the subtitles when House says it

[vapid lichen]

Still dosent make them a good company

[long hemlock]

Think that's just because it was the beginning of a new sentence

[subtle lark]

you might be right I didn't check that

[long hemlock]

House gives his spiel and Cooper tells him "Calculator told you that" capitalizing there is just grammatically correct

[subtle lark]

oh nvm then

but my robotic mommy theory stands lol

[long hemlock]

It could still mean something but it's not the smoking gun like them actually randomly capitalizing Calculator would

[paper radish]

Yeah, it being capitalized aligns with standard capitalization

[fading plover]

The Calculator™ told you that?

[fierce arch]

He did. Max knew what he did was wrong, especially because when Quintus started calling them Abominations, Max was like, "I know. I'm sorry." Max definitely knew Quintus shared the same views.

[long hemlock]

Oh hey I wanted to mention since we talked about there being no obvious NCR theme in the soundtrack before. 36 seconds into "We Have Power" there is a similar motif that plays when Captain Rodriguez makes her first appearance. Still not an "NCR theme" but does mean they might have a leitmotif.

[fierce arch]

Funny thing is, if you do actually follow the lore - it is pretty lore accurate. They haven't retconned anything. There are some stuff that need explanations but they're definitely not retcons.

[dark needle]

Juice head drinking some of that ATLA Cactus Juice

[subtle lark]

he doesn't actually say the tho

the quote is "Calculator told you that" which does make it seem like a name, but who knows

[dark needle]

But it being the first word of a sentence means you capitalize it

[long hemlock]

House is talking about plugging data to arrive at a prediction, calling it a calculator is entirely appropriate

[subtle lark]

house isn't the one talking

[long hemlock]

Cooper calling it a Calculator I mean

[subtle lark]

It would be "The calculator told you that?"

or A calcualtor told you that?

[dark needle]

Sometimes people don't speak perfect english

[inner marten]

He’s making a joke about how he doesn’t think you can predict that

It isn’t a proper noun

[long hemlock]

House says "I routinely design and run mathematical paradigms based on global, political, and socioeconomic conditions in an effort to... predict future events. And one spring morning, the data coalesced, and it told me, in no uncertain terms, that the world would... well, end."

[subtle lark]

yea that is what I think

[long hemlock]

Cooper's response is entirely natural there

[paper radish]

He was aura farming in front ~~of his lover though ~~ of House - his phrasing is pretty normal to how Coop often speaks.

House says a bunch of computer mumbo jumbo, Coop gives a demeaning joke of "calculator told you that?"

[inner marten]

This is standard American English

[paper radish]

If House said it like that it would have jumped out more to me for sure. Coop also doesn't know anything special about it at the time, so even if it was a notable thing he wouldn't be the one to reveal it since he's learning alongside us

[subtle lark]

nope

[inner marten]

It is

[subtle lark]

I don't thnk it actually matters tbh

[unique locust]

They be saying offensive things for no reason

[subtle lark]

pls dont give me a paragraph on grammar

[inner marten]

It’s not grammatically correct but that’s not what standard americans talk like

[fierce arch]

What's crazy is these guys never saw House's dialogue when you're an ass to him, or if you tell him no. He crashes out the same.

[inner marten]

Literally

[paper radish]

In any case, disregarding any capitalizations or phrasing in that exact scene, I don't think that's necessary for your original theory about Hank and the AI

[subtle lark]

oh yea that was just a fun extra

[long hemlock]

Unfortunately the "RPGs were better back in my day" mentality crosses over a lot with the early 2000s internet culture of throwing random slurs into posts

[inner marten]

Hateful people that use slurs also hate other things, who coulda guessed

[paper radish]

The good and bad news is I've been so enthralled by the show itself that I just haven't even bothered going back to my original notes and seeing what aligned with what we've seen and what didn't lol

Yeah, the NCR definitely got at least a very small leitmotif during that intro scene.

I swear we've heard the rocking line at 36 into 'we have power' though already in the show, but I'm fully blanking on where that was and can't place it. It's interesting because the overall soundscape/instrumentation in the NCR intro and that part of 'we have power' is simular but not exact, and the melody itself is less simular but still related for sure.
Thematically would align if ... ||Maximus takes the cold fusion, aligns himself in some capacity with the NCR, gets dope ass power armor, and then becomes a rep for the NCR when he fights the deathclaw on the strip. That could be why we get such an epic musical development of that idea? ||

If my irl work hadn't become such a shitshow lately I'd have been sitting down and going over score stuff after every ep, I just haven't had the energy 🙁

[subtle lark]

its also interesting to consider some of the outside factors that likely impact this stuff. Like I imagine Fallout 5 is in SF and the status of the NCR is a big consideration there
All the Great Khans mentions feel like they must be relevant somehow

[paper radish]

One thing that has absolutely jumped out though is how many bits of score wasn't ever released lol

[subtle lark]

Plus season 3 is in like 4 months. They must have decently long term plans for the factions I imagine

[long hemlock]

S1 had a few like that, there was the version of the T-60 theme that played in Vault 4

[paper radish]

Yeah, I remember there only being a few things that they didn't release (that did veer into spoiler/reference territory more, so it does kind of make sense). I've felt like we're missing more this go around, but it could just be recency bias

[long hemlock]

I feel it could be that they'll have all the factions encountered converge on the Strip, Khans, Legion, Brotherhood, hunting Maximus/Lucy & the Ghoul. With the NCR supporting them.

There was that weird Argentina ad that said as much but i'm not sure how accurate that is

[subtle lark]

the BoS is never mentioned around the strip stuff, which is interesting to me
Like we got NCR, Legion, Khans and Legion - NCR merry go round. Never BoS

[long hemlock]

It'd be weird for them to just let Maximus go with the cold fusion relic and i'm not sure they'd write the Brotherhood out of the overall plot due to the civil war

[paper radish]

I've enjoyed Maximus and his story arc so much more this season compared to last season

[long hemlock]

I can appreciate Maximus's story in S1 with how he's acted so far in S2 feels its built upon Maximus learning from S1, he did veer a little too much into comedic relief in S1 but I think he works better as the straight man to Thaddeus's comedic relief

[paper radish]

I just didn't find his overall reason to be there all that compelling duriong S1. Within about 5 mins of his time in S2 he was already much more interesting than in S1.

[long hemlock]

Especially since he's been MIA for 2 episodes yet I think he's had a stronger arc than Lucy so far

Although I think I saw a breakdown that showed Lucy, Ghoul/Cooper and Maximus have had equal screentime overall

[fierce arch]

They have very close screen time, the ones who get less last season got more this season

[dark needle]

He wanted to be the same kind of knight who rescued him.

S1 was him realizing there's more to life than that.
S2 is him truly seeing what being that knight entails

[inner marten]

Was quintus the knight who rescued him or was he being metaphorical

[long hemlock]

I will say whoever was the casting director for this show needs a raise, the show is phenomenally well casted, Even Lucy who I think had been the weakest link up until episode 5 in the writing department was still very charming thanks to Ella Purnell

[paper radish]

I don't think it was made clear, it seemed like it was left open to interpretation a bit there, and I think either interpretation is valid

[inner marten]

I want an extended Maximus fridge scene where he aims his gun at him and scans him with a geiger counter first before saving him

[long hemlock]

I went through the soundtrack and aside from We Have Power I couldn't find anything that sounded similar, it could be very well hidden but it could be that it only exists in unlisted tracks. We Have Power having the Ghoul theme, (presumably) The NCR theme and Maximus theme is a very interesting potential hint at where the plot is going

We've already seen that the Ghoul worked for the NCR in the past and they seem to be one of the few exceptions to his pragmatism

[dark needle]

It's been my read for a while

[inner marten]

It’s also notable that the ghoul is a little soft for the rangers but didn’t care about moldavers group (obviously they have a past)

Adds a little fuel to “moldaver isn’t part of the real once but a bunch of extremists”

[dark needle]

Hell, I could see Cooper being a member at one point

[inner marten]

Doubt

[dark needle]

Maybe of the Nevada Rangers if not the NCR

[inner marten]

As a pc type of member maybe

But he was a bounty hubter since fallout 76

A contractor and citizen is very possible tho

[dark needle]

He did proclaim the NCR "the good guys"

[inner marten]

Didn’t the ghoul reference Oregon?

[long hemlock]

Yeah this episode