EPISODE 8

[fallen ledge]

It would be a sound choice, but the lack of a secure connection to everything else is what lacks the potential

[trail cove]

I'm also kind of wondering what House is planning atp. The Strip is in ruins, the Families are all scattered or dead, and his securitron army is gone. Maybe he works together with the NCR to help restore Vegas

[pulsar lintel]

Vegas is a bad capital

Though if House shares cold fusion that would offset some of that

[trail cove]

That could definetly give House leverage with the NCR forces there, maybe defending critical infastructure in exchange for some resources

[hybrid frigate]

The NCR already have another capital tho

And the mojave is in a very awkward location for them given they lost the boneyard

[pulsar lintel]

If the NCR are still around their capital is probably the Hub

Lucy & Coop somehow avoid it on the way to Vegas but I assume that’s just the writers using the convenient teleport technique

That or they crossed through miles upon miles of barren desert

[trail cove]

What capital? We don't know what's the status of the rest of the NCR. And I'm already betting the Hub magically collapsed offscreen.

[pulsar lintel]

He’s referring to the sign mentioning another capital

But yeah we dont know their status in Cali so decent chance they’re just gone outside of small remnants

If the Khans made it to the Boneyard they would realistically have a presence in the Hub

[trail cove]

That discourse about "first capital" is really confusing me, what if it could refer to state capital? Like Shady Sands is the state capital of Shady?

[pulsar lintel]

I’ve talked about that before yeah

Could be just referring to state capitals but I do think it probably has a deeper purpose than that. Feels too deliberate.

[trail cove]

I've been arguing that there's still a good portioned, albiet weakened NCR presence further North. You got Redding, Vault City, and New Arroyo, plus I can just lump in San Francisco which could have an NCR influence.

[pulsar lintel]

It’s possible, though the extent of the NCR’s hold on these territories isn’t exactly clear post-2. Especially outside of Redding. I feel like if the NCR political apparatus reformed it would logically be down south in either the Hub or Shady states, not way up north.

There’d have to be a lot more justification for why the Hub, Maxson, and Shady aren’t relevant outside of “the Boneyard is lost millions will die”

[trail cove]

I've been talking about a military interim government being formed and the NCR devolving into a isolationist, militant state.

Essentially the NCR ceded territory to allow for a much more stable, centralized federal structure, and the executive role has been taken by the NCR military.

[pulsar lintel]

Not a bad idea, but why wouldn’t they cede Northern Territory instead of their core southern states?

[trail cove]

I know, but given this show's track record, I won't even be remotely surprised if they mention the Hub was destroyed without even explaining why. Maybe the Brotherhood sacked the place or something, that'd be at least be a half-decent explanation.

[pulsar lintel]

I’m not convinced these guys could sack a NCR city ngl these guys were massacred by a ragtag militia

Solid win!

[trail cove]

Maybe the city was already is heavy disorder and they just swooped in with their airship like fucking barbarians and plundered.

[pulsar lintel]

Maybe, but the BoS also shouldn’t be powerful enough to do that immediately post-Shady nuking. Idek where they got their airships but I doubt they were operating them during the NCR-BoS war.

BoS’ power level in the show only makes sense if it was 15+ years of redevelopment and recouping losses

[trail cove]

It's a flawed theory, but my current reasoning is that Shady Sand's destruction (given its relative position in the show) basically caused a political crisis in cities like the Hub. Brahmin barons or somebody else tried to seize control of the NCR government, which triggered an attempted coup, which triggered a widespread societal decay in Southern California that the NCR was too hardpressed to keep down. So, the parts of intact government relocated up north like cowards and hunkered down in the chaos.

[trail cove]

The airship thing is another confusing plot detail the show never explains. The Prydwen-class (as I'm calling it) has been retconned to being Pre-War, so I'm assuming the BOS somehow found them in storage? Which makes it even more confusing how these things are still operational and not breaking down from structural decay (then again, pre-war tech magic shit).

[pulsar lintel]

If it was just the San Fernando chapter it could be written off as something they just happened to find off the coast and managed to fix up after all these years but apparently every chapter has one now. Just absurd lol.

[trail cove]

It's sadly a case of power creep that goes unexplained.

[pulsar lintel]

Yeah. The FO4 BoS aesthetic has completely taken over these chapters for really no good reason.

Between the excessive airships and T-60 usage

[trail cove]

And now they want to rebuild Liberty Prime which literally required a fuckton of resources for the East Coast BOS just to get running.

Unless it's a shoddier version on a shorter length of operating time

[pulsar lintel]

The chapters universally taking in outsiders now is also an odd change, San Fernando should have been considered outliers for doing that. FNV makes it a point of how hardline the Elder council is about this

I think it would have benefitted Quintus’ characterization too tbh. Have him be derided and seen as a weirdo or whatever for being “progressive” as an elder.

[surreal halo]

Could the East Coast have made that reform across chapters?

[trail cove]

Except he seems way, way more traditional compared to the other Elders.

[surreal halo]

What with Arthur being the High Elder or whatever it's called

[pulsar lintel]

It’s possible, the western chapters in 4 backed Maxson despite this so I guess they had a change of heart

[trail cove]

Well, it seemed definetly like an attempt made by the East Coast BOS that didn't go well, given how many of the knights are now dumber than rocks and the power structures of each Chapter are FUBAR.

[pulsar lintel]

His actual ideology is weird I don’t really know what he’s going for outside of a vague power grab. His progressiveness to the extent of enhancing his own chapters power could still work in that framework.

You could still lean into the zealotry in other ways. FO4 does this with Maxson’s chapter despite him taking in outsiders.

As of now the only thing I’ve gotten from Quintus is that he wants to unify the BoS to restore their hegemony over the wasteland. He hates mutants but this doesn’t make him ultra conservative by BoS standards intrinsically.

[trail cove]

So he’s like a weird, twisted centralist with the worst and best of both worlds.

[surreal halo]

There are hints towards opportunistic 'recruitment' of orphans but it might just be a standard practice at this point, hard to tell

[pulsar lintel]

I guess it isn’t clarified if that was a one time thing or still a method of recruitment yeah, though given all of the other similarities with the FO4 BoS and lack of commentary on how odd taking in orphans would be I’m assuming they’re just meant to be like Arthur’s chapter now (just less competent).

[surreal halo]

Talking about giving some weird zeal to Quintus' character, to be clear

[pearl ferry]

Im gonna close my eyes and pretend you guys didnt say the courier could be a BOS member

[frank vortex]

I count like two sets of armor in this

The ghoul was the primary figure that did most of the killing because of prewar knowledge of the weld fault. I imagine these guys died because they got swarmed and stabbed through the armor gaps

(Iirc didn’t that happen? The ghoul also managed to sever Maximus’s power armor cables from the outside in that junk town)

[patent dagger]

Best guess is the commonwealth chapter is basically forcing its will on the others

The outsider thing is likely done due to dwindling man power and even then it seems to mostly be orphans

[mystic plaza]

The issue is that AFAIK, the Commonwealth wasn't so much as the fact that the Council of Elders established Maxson as Supreme Commander and pretty much reinforced his authority, or rather didn't really contest it. So they were okay with him absorbing chapters, and giving orders to one's not within reach.

[mystic plaza]

It's orphans and young kids, yeah, at the very least the implication in episode 1 in s1 is that there's a bunch of people like Maximus, in terms of being orphans or kids/young adults with no place to go.

[patent dagger]

Thaddeus also seemingly backs that up

[mystic plaza]

Also people forget, the base Thaddeus, Maximus, and Dane were at in s1, had children on it. lol

they were chilling in the lookout tower

And majority if not all of them in this scene look roughly the same age.

[patent dagger]

It looks like they bolstered numbers by taking in orphans when the ncr was in chaos

[meager elm]

children are a big part of the brotherhood lol, they take desperate kids in to add to their ranks

[patent dagger]

I mean the mojave and outcasts were dead set against outside recruitment

[mystic plaza]

For different reasons, I'd argue though.

[random bramble]

Isn’t it part of the codex to not recruit?

[bleak moth]

do they differentiate between recruiting and rescuing orphans?

[icy pagoda]

I don't think they rescue orphans unless they are for sure recruiting them

[mystic plaza]

this, i think is the differentiating factor.
but also, Elders can overide that i believe

[bleak moth]

well yea but its slightly different between come live with us homeless child, and going out signing up fighting age soldiers

[frank vortex]

What even happened to the mojave chapter

[fallow gyro]

Its kinda funny to me that they probably slimed out older shady sands survivors if there were any but they took max since they could indoctrinate

They presumably also tore through boneyard since thats where thaddeus is from

[frank vortex]

Probably ghoul cleansing

[random bramble]

Probably genocide

[abstract scarab]

I don't believe so, since you can be recruited in basically every game. They're just highly selective.

I imagine it means they don't have a sign set up out front asking people to join.

[abstract scarab]

Afaik in almost every ending they ultimately die. Either in isolation, destroyed by the NCR or Legion, abandon the base and disappear, etc.

There's only a few ending paths where they return to normal, either striking a truce to allow the NCR to retreat west while abandoning their savaged armor, or conquering much of the region and harassing people about tech

[mystic plaza]

they're gone, or absorbed into another western chapter, even if destroyed in one of their endings - it says they travel further west.

[random star]

Nv made it clear they will die if they dont change

[grizzled garden]

I don't think there were any survivors besides max when the brotherhood got there

[abstract scarab]

Most endings they don't change either, just that their current threat leaves the area. They're doomed in the long run either way

[fallow gyro]

the brotherhood in itself is an inherently doomed faction

or rather, it's not a faction that is destined for long term longevity

[random star]

East coast bos is doing well by opening up

[mystic plaza]

there was I'm pretty sure? they ended up joining with moldaver though. I believe those who survived - or who were on the exterior of the blast radius, joined moldaver and those out of town who came back - settled in the vault.

[grizzled garden]

Yeah but they were definitely gone before the brotherhood got there

[violet elm]

Nate has the odds of being a Brotherhood Sentinel

Just imagine Nate appears in Season 3 wearing Paladin Danse's armour

Walking alongside Elder Maxon

[mystic plaza]

we have no idea, it's possible that they didn't because Moldaver encountered them at some point.

[violet elm]

The Mojave chapter of the brotherhood doesn't really have much ground or public support

Brotherhood chapters won't have much capability without the public supporting them like what the NCR and the Legion already doing

The NCR promise the wasteland a government, security, and an opportunity for a future, the Legion offers strength and civilization among the tribes

What does the Brotherhood offer? Not much

They could honestly start getting support by providing help to the followers of the apocalypse, giving them protection and supplies in exchange for providing medical support and expertise alongside technology that would be better handled by them

Mainly tech that puts people in hospital

[obtuse niche]

Presumably the people in filly are also partially shady sands survivors

I'd have thought that most of the wastelanders we see in the region are ex Republic

[abstract scarab]

Tbh I think we should see more brotherhood splinter groups rather than semi autonomous chapters that hate each other

[pearl ferry]

I will accept sole as BOS purely because he was military prewar

so it makes sense, but courier as BOS? dont make me laugh

[violet elm]

If the Brotherhood won it's likely the Sole is either a Sentinel or a general

[pearl ferry]

I think the institute won 🤓 ☝️ i say delusionally

[random bramble]

We have zero evidence that of the BOS were victorious that the sole survivor would tag along with them permanently

[pearl ferry]

thats why they said if

[random bramble]

That isn’t what they said, they said if the brotherhood won the soul survivor is likely a sentinel. I don’t think that it’s necessary likely the soul survivor would stick with them long term

[pearl ferry]

nate being a good rank in the military prewar would point him towards the BOS, thats that theyre saying

[random bramble]

Nate was also against the war between the us and China. He wouldn’t like this brotherhood or stand by them long term imho

[pearl ferry]

which i agree makes sense, even as much as i hate the BOS, i can think logically that his background would nudge him towards the BOS

whether he was against it or not, he fought in the war

[random bramble]

If Nate was able to give his speech he would have been given the cooper treatment

[pearl ferry]

what do you mean by the cooper treatment

that people thought he was a commie?

[random bramble]

He would have been arrested as a communist sympathizer

[violet elm]

There's a funny headcanon that the Institute won and replaced the entire Brotherhood chapter

[pearl ferry]

dont add to my delusions, lol

[pearl ferry]

not necessarily, he was in a veterans hall, there could have been people who agreed with him

[violet elm]

Seriously I wanna see Nate in the TV show a small cameo

And hey I don't mind Nate being a literal War criminal

[pearl ferry]

he did, when he shot steph's mother lol (joking)

[violet elm]

The guy who got blown up?

[pearl ferry]

yeah, but thats just me being haha he's the guy in fo1

[violet elm]

Considering all the sarcastic options and the evil shit we can say and do, Nate being a war criminal isn't too far off

[abstract scarab]

Tbf the Canadian suicide bomber probably didn't kill the marine in armor, just gave Steph enough of a distraction to escape

[violet elm]

Can a T-45 protect you from a Mutie SB?

There's a likely chance the Suicide bomber uses a frag nade

[abstract scarab]

The mutie with a mojo nuke? No

A frag nade bomber probably

[random bramble]

Nah that guy is definitely seriously injured or dead

[pearl ferry]

i think it was more the guy who blew up than the PA guy, we've seen PAs be scarily durable, think of danse

[abstract scarab]

In 76 knight Shin jumps on a mutant land mine pile to save a recruit, it bangs him up but the armor soaks most of the damage

[random bramble]

The t-45s on the show aren’t environmentally shielded, his insides are soup now

Just form the pressure

[abstract scarab]

It doesn't need to be environmentally shielded, frag mines don't create a huge pressure wave. It's the shrapnel that kills or mutilates you.

[violet elm]

The armour is likely intact but the guy died from concussion

[random bramble]

I just freeze frames the explosion and it does not look survivable

[abstract scarab]

Concussion grenades are something you throw in an enclosed space like a bunker or a tank

[violet elm]

They're designed for shrapnel not direct explosion

[abstract scarab]

It's also just cartoon physics, that's not what grenade explosions look like

[violet elm]

Maybe survive from a nade launcher not a mini nuke or a direct hit rocket

[pearl ferry]

shin makes me believe he tanked it, they say PA is a wearable tank

[abstract scarab]

That's what it's supposed to be. If it can stop gunfire from the Chinese it can stop shrapnel from a grenade

[violet elm]

Did the Canadian suicide bomber only have one grenade? Or has multiple?

[pearl ferry]

ill be grateful and say he probably got rattled, maybe a concussion

[random bramble]

It’s not a grenade it’s a bomb vest

You can see the wire to the detonator he’s holding in his right hand

[violet elm]

We can assume it's shaped charges

[pearl ferry]

i dont think we should look into it too hard, it was supposed to be a gag

[violet elm]

Shaped charges are designed to destroy whatever identifies as a tank

[random bramble]

How is it a gag?

[pearl ferry]

haha he blew up fallout humour

[random bramble]

The scene actually plays very serious

[pearl ferry]

nothing in fallout is serious brother

its a game mocking american capitalism and values, doctrines, etc

[random bramble]

That’s just not true

[abstract scarab]

Shaped charges don't work as suicide vests though

[tame owl]

I don't think it's a gag but I do think it doesn't need much looking in to.

[abstract scarab]

It can be silly and serious at the same time

[violet elm]

We can assume it's an IED or multiple grenades strapped to his chest

[pearl ferry]

thats how i feel coming in these chats sometimes, [screaming]

[tame owl]

I think that whole segment is just a set up for Steph's mindset and dedication.

[pearl ferry]

it is, it gives reason to why she's so unhinged

[random bramble]

It didn’t come off as silly in any way to me besides calling them Hosiers

[violet elm]

The fact we find a potentially traumatizing for some hilarious

[tame owl]

It's silly because of that but like, it shows the level of dedication and fight that people like steph have in them.

[abstract scarab]

But in either case, power armor is made to survive attacks like that. He was likely severely injured around the joints but would have survived because that's what wearing a tank is supposed to do.

[pearl ferry]

quoting bo burham, tragedy will be exclusively joked about.

[violet elm]

The Tank is just as thick as a lee tank designed to stop bullet not a 50 cal

[tame owl]

Which episode was it?

found it

[violet elm]

Wait no not a lee tank

[abstract scarab]

Real world physics yes, but in universe statements say otherwise. It's not RHA, it's quasi magical sci-fi armor.

[violet elm]

More of a Stuart Tank

[pulsar lintel]

Once the camera zooms out further there’s two more dead PA units. Many of the BoS men dead here are unarmored as well. It was pretty brutal.

[tame owl]

Yeah honestly that thing goes off quite far from the power armour.

And it's a slow flamey explosion.

[abstract scarab]

Power armor is also not infallible, the main weakness is being ganged up on and attacked in the weak spots. The BoS operate like dipshits and don't protect their unarmored squad mates

[violet elm]

Judging the T-45 we can safely assume it takes inspiration from the Fallout 3 and New Vegas model where it's more like clothing than a mech with a sprinkle of Fallout 4 PA mechanic

[tame owl]

Might take out external systems but the guy on the inside might survive.

[calm patrol]

Honestly I thought the finale was pretty unsatisfying.

[abstract scarab]

Nah it's very much the 4 style of a walking tank, just with a flip up faceplate

[random bramble]

It’s a way smaller frame

[calm patrol]

It feels like there are at least 3 episodes left.

[abstract scarab]

The finale definitely feels like a setup for season 3, the common curse of all middle sequel movies and shows.

[random bramble]

And the hands are actual hands not robot hands

[violet elm]

I feel like the Quintus chapter's doctrine is in reverse, it's not the knight that protects the squire, it's the Squire that protects the knight which is stupid

[calm patrol]

I at least expected there to be a big battle between the NCR and the Legion.

The events of this season in retrospect don't really amount to much in the end.

[mystic plaza]

i hate that my meme take of no battle on the strip was correct, lmfao

[abstract scarab]

They're supposed to work together. The Knight tanks aggro and the squires pick off targets from behind or the flanks.

[calm patrol]

Just as I thought the incest club plotline was entirely useless.

[abstract scarab]

Big battle? We don't have no budget for a big battle!

We need more celebrity cameos, damn it.

[pearl ferry]

but.. uranium fever...

[violet elm]

If We take the operation sunburst by Sodaz as fact, the way the brotherhood fights alongside their unarmored members is the proper doctrine, it's like the Quintus chapter is like the Carthaginian army from the first punic wars where they put the elephants behind the fighters

[abstract scarab]

Then you weren't paying attention. It was never about the incest club, it was about the stress that the idiot dwellers are putting on the system and Steph twisting the knife on the vaults to set up the Enclave phase II call

[calm patrol]

And does anyone genuinely give a shit about what will happen in the Brotherhood storyline in Season 3?

[mystic plaza]

im sure there's some people lol

[abstract scarab]

I want to see Quintus get crucified

[pearl ferry]

i already got what i wanted, they obliterated eachother

[calm patrol]

There are, like, no likeable characters left in the brotherhood.

[icy pagoda]

maximus's friend is pretty cool

[calm patrol]

Actually scratch that, there are no characters left in the Brotherhood aside from Dane and Quintus period.

[violet elm]

The Quintus chapter is more religious than the Mojave Chapter under Elijah then later acting Elder McNamara while the Commonwealth chapter is more Militaristic

[pearl ferry]

i promise i roared about it like some american football game dad

hot take, i kinda like their crazy religious atmosphere, but thats coming from someone who loves COA and Mothman cultists

[calm patrol]

They might have to introduce another protagonist just to make the viewer care about the Brotherhood.

Because I don't really care what happens to Dane.

[violet elm]

The Commonwealth Scribes looks more like explorers or scouts than priests which is clear that Maxon's chapter takes on a more Militaristic approach than the Quintus or tbe Mojave Chapter

Even the scribes on the Prydwen looks more like doctors/scientist than priest

[patent dagger]

Death by ncr, house or caesar

[abstract scarab]

I want more weird religious beliefs

[pearl ferry]

i mean wasnt the original maxson military focused, so it would make sense, especially for arthur and the maxson line to be like that.
now i think about it why are they religious

[violet elm]

And the field scribe, these guys from down to their uniform they're designed to fight alongside their Knights/Paladins instead of staying in once place with robes

[frank vortex]

I dont remember if it was show or not but I believe they died by stabbing through gap/joints rather than shot

[patent dagger]

Not to mention they were hardline on confiscating tech

[pearl ferry]

cooper talks about a weak point in the armour in S1 I think

[pulsar lintel]

Yeah that’s how they got to them in the show. That or explosives/heavy weaponry.

[violet elm]

The field scribes are designed to move around alot and explore harsher terrains that power armour cannot move to

[abstract scarab]

Presumably Max's original field base seems to be near salt lake city? They're more Legion influenced, but also some Mormonism? It's hard to tell exactly

[frank vortex]

Well thats cooper knowledge and he had a huge gun to back it up. The rest either swarm them or as a dude just said, blown up

[abstract scarab]

That's a joint weld on the chest that can be penetrated with a specific sort of AP round, not a general weak point that anyone can exploit.

[frank vortex]

Considering that fault is in a very specific spot under the chest its more likely to be brute force penetration rather than weak points

[violet elm]

These guys are literal scribes mind you and look at them, they look more like Engineers than priest

[patent dagger]

We also see the t-45 can be crippled with well placed shots

[pearl ferry]

pockets for all their trinkets

[abstract scarab]

It's more like if the armor is segmented to overlap protection, there's a weird specific angle that hits all the weakest points in a row and then penetrates into the body

[violet elm]

They're designed to tinker with Tech and study and even reverse engineer at the same time fight

[frank vortex]

That is also true and we see that its possible to just get in with a knife. Dudes got swarme

[patent dagger]

But there is one question i have about the brotherhood in show where are the energy weapons

[abstract scarab]

Also remember, Paladins are engineers and not soldiers like Knights. They're supposed to be two separate career tracks, with a rare few characters occupying both roles

[pearl ferry]

the silver rush

[violet elm]

While this is not designed for Field sctibes

[patent dagger]

I mean the Chinese soldiers were only using aks

[patent dagger]

They lost them to the van graffs XD

[violet elm]

Imagine trying to explore a ruined city with goddamn robes, not really comfortable

[abstract scarab]

Some asshole went around and pickpocketed them all to sell for Nuka Cola

[pearl ferry]

somehow stockpiled in the bathroom, idk how they got there though
I'm just not allowed in there anymore

[patent dagger]

Also would be funny

I just hope the shows not subtly trying to make energy weapons rarer

[pearl ferry]

i mean with the enclave pulling up, its possible

[violet elm]

Honestly out of all the Brotherhood chapter the Maxon and the Lyon's chapter are the most competent Brotherhood chapter

[frank vortex]

I believe they just didnt have the infastructure to produce ammo or the weapons. Cold fusion opened the possibility before it was stolen, as we see with the fusion cores

[patent dagger]

I can only think of two in show one, in the enclave mps hands the other in quintus

[abstract scarab]

I hope the enclave rolls in with a full suite of plasma rifles

[patent dagger]

Never stopped lyons, maxsons or elijahs rockjng them

[patent dagger]

The one gun i want redesigned

[abstract scarab]

Redesigned to a return to the 3/NV version?

[violet elm]

The issue with the other chapter is that they're too focused on religious larping while the Maxons are building a suitable fighting force more capable of recovering Tech

[frank vortex]

The difference is those people lived in very rich and well-preserved ruins. The show is far into the future in what is effectively a sandy shell

[patent dagger]

3s but plated like a defender

[frank vortex]

In boston theres fusion cores in every 4-5th building

[pearl ferry]

shady sands is renamed sunny sands

[patent dagger]

Have you seen the mojave chapter

[violet elm]

Yeah, the Sand is always shady

[patent dagger]

The fallout 3 plasma rifle looks unfinished

[abstract scarab]

No where are they

[pearl ferry]

hidden valley

[frank vortex]

Drastically smaller population and theres still a lot of tech hidden in the ruins

[mystic plaza]

it probably was, lol I like to think the multiplas was the intended finished product

[abstract scarab]

Remember that plasma technology was given to us by aliens to fight against the old gods

[frank vortex]

Hank had the best time this season

• kill a TON of rats
• brainwash a small army of white collars
• kill your old boss
• consequences faced: 0

[patent dagger]

If any faction could finish the weapon it seems like the enclave

[patent dagger]

Kill his old boss?

[frank vortex]

Mostly a joke but when he got into the cryo chambers he killed an old vault tec employee (presumably a higher position based on the exchange)

[patent dagger]

That was just a customer

[abstract scarab]

Nah he was an executive of sorts

[frank vortex]

Ok but thats not as funny

[abstract scarab]

He came from the executive room that Barb was kept in didn't he?

[patent dagger]

He says as much

[frank vortex]

Hanks biggest crime was bringing back the 9-5

[patent dagger]

The cryostorage looks like it had other people in it, likely the ones the enclave did not want were left

[abstract scarab]

Hank could have saved the world if he put us on a 10-4 schedule

[frank vortex]

At first I assumed the enclave base would be in like montanna or along the canadian border but colorado has mountains too I guess

[patent dagger]

My theory stands that the enclave long emptied its own members from the managment vaults and left everyone else, hence why wilzig is about

Those who paid for cryostorage but weren’t members were left to experiment on later

[frank vortex]

God I hope season 3 isn’t ass

Were on a roll

[patent dagger]

Moldover is the mystery how she survived

[frank vortex]

Girl power

[random bramble]

This is a weird attitude it’s almost like people expect everything to be bad all the time

[abstract scarab]

Moldaver was always an enclave agent who set the whole thing in motion

[frank vortex]

Bethesda has a habit of fumbling at the halfway point

[abstract scarab]

She and Wilzig only defected after the war when they realized the extent of destruction post oil rig

[patent dagger]

That seems like an oddly convoluted way to get cold fusion from vault tec, when they had multiple members inside the company

Including at least one high up

[abstract scarab]

It wouldn't be a very good deep state if they didn't have convoluted schemes

She was fingering the pinkos and setting Cooper up for the hand off

[patent dagger]

Why not just get braun to get it

Who had literal contact with them enough that an ai could impersonate him and steal hellfire armour

[abstract scarab]

Braun was fucking off and making his own VR chat server

[frank vortex]

The legion was very well portrayed this season I think

Little bit of tomfoolery but accurate to how they always were

[patent dagger]

Bug fuck nuts

[abstract scarab]

Caesar's final note was a bit too proper, he didn't call anyone a dumb piece of shit

[patent dagger]

Those two idiots are probably dead

[mystic plaza]

he should've. lol

[patent dagger]

I am casear
I am the legion
The followers end with me

[frank vortex]

Why didn’t caesar just survive? Was he stupid?

[patent dagger]

Brain tumour

[pearl ferry]

was he stupid 😭

[patent dagger]

Maybe

[frank vortex]

Why didn’t he just remove the tumor?

[mystic plaza]

he should've just ate more herbs

[abstract scarab]

He should have drank more fruit smoothies smh

[dense wharf]

he should've shot the tumor in his head
worked for the courier

[frank vortex]

Me personally I’d have just dug in there and pull it out

[abstract scarab]

He should have gone to big MT and got the whole damn thang scooped

[frank vortex]

Nah he wouldve gotten lobotomized

[abstract scarab]

[Luck 9] Hack wildly at the tumor with a nearby scalpel

[patent dagger]

Well the legions not exactly full of brain surgeons

[frank vortex]

Legate lanius

[patent dagger]

Who don’t stand to benefit from his death

[frank vortex]

Huh

[pearl ferry]

skill issue, medicine skill was too low

[sacred idol]

Hot take: Jason Momoa would be an interesting choice to play Elder Maxson

[patent dagger]

I guess but he could be fun as a mad raider, a hard nut ncr officer, a legion crazy

[solid grail]

Whoever would play Maxson feels like they’d need aura/intimidation factor, though that’d be a low bar considering how much of a joke the West Coast leadership turned out to be.

[young kiln]

Personally anyone who looks like fo4 maxson and can give a mean enough look will do :p

[carmine quiver]

personally, i hope Maxson dies

[pulsar lintel]

Maxson should show up and shitstomp Quintus. Put the old man out of his misery.

[carmine quiver]

Maximus and Maxson gonna have a showdown of who is the more worthy Max

Maximus got that essential character armour so i'm betting on him

-# and totally not because i fucking hate Maxson sm i want him crucified and dipped in acid i want him dead so badly it's unhealthy how much i hate this man

[daring cloud]

6 months not a year and a half

[carmine quiver]

cooper trusted a president that had only been president for six months?! 😭😭

there's being patriotic, and then there's patriotic

[pulsar lintel]

Coop justifying his 4 INT stat here for sure

This shit is funny to me given he literally witnessed a fucking monstrosity being unleashed on the Chinese yet didn’t think to question the governments involvement with any of this, even after speaking to House

[carmine quiver]

Cooper watching the bombs fall glancing at his daughter, realising that blindly following any government is fucking stupid, especially after you saw what they were cooking up when being deployed in Alaska:

[tame reef]

same

commonwealth chapter has to go

[copper ginkgo]

Wrong

[daring cloud]

its not tho. its literally stated ingame

White House Remains Empty - Where is our President?
By Mags Veccio
Boston Bugle Staff Writer

For more than half a year, the West Wing of America's most famous residence has remained shrouded in near complete darkness. A skeleton crew of manual laborers remains on staff to maintain the property, but nobody has lived - or worked politically - there for several months. And even though the White House Press Corps was unofficially and unceremoniously disbanded around the same time, the media has remained steadfast in answering that most important of questions:

Where is our President?

At first, the assumption was that the entirety of the United States government had moved operations to Raven Rock, the military operations center located in the mountainous region of Pennsylvania just a few miles northeast of the Presidential retreat in Camp David, Maryland. But further investigations have revealed that neither the President nor his Cabinet have been to the Raven Rock complex in over a year.

So if not Raven Rock, then where?

Thanks to an extensive and exhaustive investigation, the Boston Bugle has uncovered the answer, and our readers will likely consider it as strange as it is shocking:

The President has been leading our country from a Poseidon Energy oil rig just off the coast of San Francisco.

It's certainly an odd choice for a Presidential command center. Or is it? Not as much as it may seem, as our investigation discovered. Thanks to the testimony of a highly-placed anonymous source, the Boston Bugle has learned that the official designation of the oil rig is actually "Control Station Enclave" - giving credence to the long-running rumors of a secret, militarized "shadow government," known as the Enclave, that would take control of the United States in the event of a nuclear conflagration.

And so, the mystery of the missing President has finally been solved. But in doing so, has the Boston Bugle also uncovered evidence that the end of the world, in the form of total atomic war, is also at hand?

Sadly, the President's silence seems to speak volumes.

thats the boston bugle article 4 found directly inside fallout 4

[carmine quiver]

you are the real chosen one 🤝

[carmine quiver]

gotta give credit where it's due; dog is acting exactly like how the American government would to factual, irrefutable evidence.

[sacred idol]

I find it funny how the Courier canonically didn't loot Caesar's displacer glove.

[patent dagger]

Or the new caesar tbh

[carmine quiver]

like the god damn moron he was

if the article was published prior to Cooper meeting House……….

uhhhhhhh who wants to play "everybody point at Bethesda and blame their writing team"

or the showrunners

[daring cloud]

well yeah. The last pre war Scene we got was at least 7 months prior to the nukes

The article was less than a few days before the nuking btw

[carmine quiver]

damn 😭

[daring cloud]

Its ultimately irelevent to the flashbacks beyond confirming the president scene was more than 6 months prior to the nukes

It came out basically the day of the nuking and no one had any time to even react to it , house would have known at least a few weeks before but the article would have done basically nothing except confirm what he already knew

[carmine quiver]

Enclave clocked that shit and decided to poke the bear China to speed shit along 😭

[bleak moth]

!mute 470548306309939210 1d please take this time to review our #rules . Memes continue to not be allowed on the server.

[coarse warren]

.lauren.ipsum. muted m.ungin for 1 day. Reason: please take this time to review our #rules . Memes continue to not be allowed on the server.

[pulsar lintel]

[obtuse niche]

President could've come to the mainland for it, what with LA being so close to the oil rig

[daring cloud]

Key word being could. But nothing suggests that

[obtuse niche]

Idk what California looks like in uhh April/March (or earlier) so

[daring cloud]

Vegas is in Nevada not California ?

They were in Vegas when they did the handover

[patent dagger]

I believe based on things we see the coop house flashbacks occur in march/april 2077 and the ones where the bombs dropped and he is doing rodeo stunts is obvs october gives him 6ish months for his life to be ruined

[daring cloud]

Epit would have to be very very early march

[patent dagger]

Why?

[obtuse niche]

Same thing applies I don't know what Nevada looks like that time of year either

[solid grail]

Wonder if we'll see Coop being hauled before HUAC in S3.

[daring cloud]

If he’s been on the rig for 6 months. That means he got there mid to late march.

[patent dagger]

But as been pointed out the coops meeting with the president was kinda off the books, he arrived via unmarked plane

[daring cloud]

If the senator no one likes found out . Others who are smarter would too

[patent dagger]

Also 76 references planned meetings with the president so its likely he did leave on occasion

[copper ginkgo]

More than half a year get out buddy

[daring cloud]

Bros just ignoring literal game info

[copper ginkgo]

Exactly nothing about 6 months

[copper ginkgo]

Nothing about 6 months

[daring cloud]

You are trolling right, you can’t be this stupid

[patent dagger]

6 months is a reasonable amount of time for coops life to fall apart, divorce, being barred etc

[copper ginkgo]

FOR MORE THAN HALF OF A YEAR

[daring cloud]

Yeah. Not ‘more than a year and a half’ you twit

[patent dagger]

Papers exaggerare

[sacred idol]

This is literally in Fallout 4. There's a terminal in the Boston Bugle (i think) that says it

[copper ginkgo]

More than half

[copper ginkgo]

Not 6 months twat

[daring cloud]

Near 6 months nitwit

[copper ginkgo]

Ik but it ain’t 6 months

[solid grail]

And more than enough time for Coop to get hauled before HUAC to get the full McCarthy special.

[copper ginkgo]

No evidence supports that claim

[daring cloud]

No evidence supports more than a year

[patent dagger]

No need to insult

[copper ginkgo]

I'm not talking about that doi

[obtuse niche]

It could've occurred at arguably any point on the timeline of 2077

[copper ginkgo]

Trying to change subject crazy tho @daring cloud

[obtuse niche]

There's no indication of any particularly robust date

[daring cloud]

You claimed a year and a half. The game info says close to half a year. Those are not anywhere near close and if they meant more than a year they would have said it.

[patent dagger]

More than half before October limits the range of months

[daring cloud]

‘Trying to change the subject’ and it’s literally the subject being discussed. Ok dude

[patent dagger]

Basically more than half leaves it from maybe december 2076-march 2077

[copper ginkgo]

I meant more than half of a year but wtv as i've said my mistake you're the twat who went thru a bunch of old messages to correct me get wrecked it's not 6 months 💔

[obtuse niche]

Don't we know Coop's entire pre war sequence is in 2077

[sacred idol]

Don't make me tap the sign 👇

[daring cloud]

No.

I mean it could be, but it’s not stated anywhere,

[copper ginkgo]

@daring cloud actual ERM IT'S YOU'RE NOT YOUR moment

[daring cloud]

no one cares

[copper ginkgo]

You do though

[daring cloud]

Are you on drugs or something

[obtuse niche]

Huh I thought there was some confirmation of it somewhere

[copper ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/walton-goggins-walton-goggins-jezman-gif-9848292747379969031

[daring cloud]

Can you remember any specifics, cus I don’t remember any actual dates being given for anything except the obvious nuking. Which we know

[patent dagger]

I added a month of 2076 to widen it a little

[random bramble]

No we don’t

[random star]

Coops daughter is still young so it can't be to much of a time gap

[obtuse niche]

No, I just know the 2077 thing has been floating around for a while

[copper ginkgo]

@daring cloud says guy who waited 10 million years to correct my poor choice of words and go thru old messages hop off the mentas

[patent dagger]

Late 2076 is still plausible

[random bramble]

Yeah it can’t be any earlier then like 2275

[patent dagger]

No need to be nasty over a debate

[obtuse niche]

We see T-60 in one scene, do we know when T-60 began rollout

[random bramble]

Do we?

[obtuse niche]

Yeah the vertibird during the test drill

[daring cloud]

After 2070 I think

[random bramble]

Ah

[obtuse niche]

Anchorage would probably still be ongoing during the show right

[patent dagger]

T-60 is in canada too

[daring cloud]

T51 didn’t come in til a couple years before the nuking. And t60 came before it because they couldn’t finish the t-51 yet.

[patent dagger]

Mopping up

[obtuse niche]

Didn't T-60 rollout after T-51? It's referenced as the 'most advanced' model in a few places

[copper ginkgo]

Have fun watching season 3 @daring cloud

[random star]

T60 is after t51

[obtuse niche]

And T-51 was deployed in Anchorage in like, 2076 wasn't it

[daring cloud]

T60 came out before t51

[solid grail]

Dude needs to stand on business next season, little bro is moving like he's Lanius when he's a wannabe Vulpes at best.

[daring cloud]

Numbers aren’t a definitive timeline , they can be. But there’s thousands of examples of military projects being delayed or shelved. In which case the number would be out of order, it’s just a project number afterall, it doesn’t have much relevance to when it was made beyond giving you a rough indication of when the project was thought up, in this case the t51 was a proj3ct before t-60, but took ages so they refit the t45 and that became the t-60 design

[obtuse niche]

He better beat up an armored knight or something

[copper ginkgo]

Fr

[obtuse niche]

The show suggests t-60 was deployed after Anchorage and we know t-51 was deployed to Anchorage for obvious reasons

[sacred idol]

The T-60 series of Power Armor saw extensive use by the United States Army after the Battle of Anchorage. In fact, soldiers in T-60 Power Armor were among those trying to retain order on October 23, 2077 - the day America fell to atomic war.

• Fallout 4 loading screen

[patent dagger]

T-60 could logically come first as its not a redesign but an improvement

[pastel dock]

That to me means the Legion will fall harder.
The bigger they are…
…The harder they fall!
Those are actually achievements in 3 and 4.

[daring cloud]

T-60 was used domestically to quell riots and stuff.

By the s2 flashbacks they’re into 2077 Assumedly. So t-51 would be deployed in anchorage.

[solid grail]

Though probably because House unleashes his Securitrons to re-enact their emergence at the Fort from fifteen-ish years ago; kinda need the additional backup unless there's more NCR heading to Vegas.

[patent dagger]

Why did the pre war soldiers became so trigger happy

[daring cloud]

I’d hazard a guess t-60 was probably rolled out after 2073-74

But before mid 2076

[copper ginkgo]

Cool

[obtuse niche]

I don't think the legion is still the Arizona conquering beast it was

[random star]

The t60 wasn't made until after the battle of anchorage

[obtuse niche]

This would be all well and good if ingame statements and the show didn't suggest otherwise

[daring cloud]

See the only ingame thing that says otherwise is the loading screen in 4. Which is objectively wrong

[random star]

Lucy says this

[obtuse niche]

Lucy says as much too

[daring cloud]

76 backpedaled almost imeidtaely to have it worse than t 51.

[obtuse niche]

The loading screen was reused in 76 (iirc) and it's the only thing we have which gives us a timeline

[pastel dock]

Maybe.
It will honestly be cool to see that: the NCR holding the gates while the Legion of Idiots being lead by Junior Salad Man 3 is besieging Vegas. And then Securitrons from the facility gets behind the Legion in a pincer maneuver and annihilates them. Queue Le Epik scene of Junior 3 dying.

[obtuse niche]

Newest =/= best

[random star]

Being advanced dosent mean better

[daring cloud]

(It should :()

[obtuse niche]

It doesn't mean it irl either lowkey

[random star]

Unreal 5 is advanced but its a awful game engine

[solid grail]

Though maybe Lacerta escapes with whatever hodgepodge Praetorians he has on hand back to Arizona once the battle turns against him?

[obtuse niche]

Doubtful

[daring cloud]

Well irl military stuff is shit

[obtuse niche]

Whereas fallout military stuff isn't?

[daring cloud]

Millitary grade just means made by the lowest bidder for the military >:)

[obtuse niche]

I doubt kevinus' reign could survive a retreat from Vegas

[random star]

T60 was made as budget costs bc t51 was to costly

[obtuse niche]

There are certainly others vying for power across Arizona

[pastel dock]

And various tribes rebelled.

[obtuse niche]

Now that would be surprising

[solid grail]

Graham did get set on fire and thrown into the Grand Canyon for Hoover Dam; Lacerta fumbling an attack on Vegas probably would get his ass on a cross at best.

[obtuse niche]

Tribal rebellion instead of just regional factionalization would be unexpected

[random star]

Jousha gharam has more plot armor then the protag

[daring cloud]

Home alone 5 , Rome alone

[obtuse niche]

Graham wasn't Caesar, Caesar isn't around to throw Lacerta into the grand canyon any more (and that's the problem)

Since Caesar could just crucify whoever was actually leading the battle a defeat never reflected back onto him, but kevinus is Caesar and he's leading it himself

[pastel dock]

With the Twin Salad Juniors thing we saw in episode 7, I doubt the rest of the Legion is like that.
Ep 7 was probably a best case scenario. Various tribes could have celebrated then killed the local Legion warlord(s) upon hearing Red Salad Mans death.

[obtuse niche]

So if he fucks up he can't really go and crucify someone, it shows fault in what's supposed to be the legion's demigod-king

[obtuse niche]

Aren't exactly any local tribes left to do that

[compact bramble]

Rome Alone has been taking me out since I first saw someone say it 🤣

[solid grail]

And the guy's been Caesar for.... what, a week or two perhaps?

[patent dagger]

Think we will get to see vault 29

[obtuse niche]

Yeah he's still pretty new to the role

[obtuse niche]

Is vault 29 known or something

[patent dagger]

Its harolds vault ran by pc boots out adults

Originally populated by teens

[obtuse niche]

Huh ok

PC?

[patent dagger]

Pc?

A zax if i recall

[obtuse niche]

Harold as in the fallout 1/2/3 Harold?

[patent dagger]

Yes

[obtuse niche]

I didn't know the zax was that old

[daring cloud]

There’s only one Harold

Zax are pre war supercomputers, every zax we know of is at least constructed and active prior to the nukes . A few are older than the others,

[random star]

And the shitty ps2 game

[patent dagger]

Yeah vault 29s a mix of bible and van buren ideas

[daring cloud]

The one thing fallouts timeline seems to be doing way better than us in is ai

[random star]

Id have a mr handy irl

[patent dagger]

Ignoring all the ones who went nuts

[daring cloud]

Like , actual ai, not the trussed up language models proclaimed to be ai today

Yeah but that’s the thing. We aren’t even close to an ai. Which is partly due to transistors

They have sentient proper ai at least a few years pre nuking.

They have mister handy level ai at least a few decades pre nuking.

The vacuum tube systems are way better at doing stuff ai needs to do. But terrible for stuff like the internet and stuff we make today.

[obtuse niche]

Well and exoskeletons/maybe material sciences

[daring cloud]

well not really

remember they started on that like mid 2060s. were in mid 2020s and we allready have crude exoskeletons for helping with paralysed people ectr and heavy loads

its not really fair to directly compare them and us because their massive leaps in robotics came two decades from now

[obtuse niche]

The big problem is that their exosuits don't really uh work with physics

[unique flint]

Do you think Colonel Autumn took over the Enclave?

[daring cloud]

blocking outs mostly done for everything but the head

[random bramble]

Since he’s dead, no

[patent dagger]

Nah he dead

[ornate magnet]

Yes

[solid grail]

Though someone like him could make for an interesting antagonist once the Enclave gets around to properly initiating round three of their perpetual attempts to reclaim America. Just anyone who isn't like Eden and Richardson's stupid-ass FEV killpeopleism or the laundry list of Eckhart's insane antics.

[mystic plaza]

Derek Philips, Richard Madden, Vinnie Jones, Alan Ritchson, or Josh Segarra.

[deep geyser]

Alan Ritchson looks the most like him to me in my opinion

[random bramble]

Autumn would be like 70 by now

[wispy pulsar]

autumn is a season

[sacred idol]

Season 3 has the opportunity to do the funniest shit ever

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Maximus_(Fallout_Tactics)

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, he would just have to practice the voice, but those would be my picks, personally, for someone to act him - if he does ever appear.

[random bramble]

I don’t care about matching in game character appearance at all

[fallow gyro]

probably not considering he's a pile of ash lmao

since he either is killed by the LW or mowed down by the brotherhood or liberty prime after exiting the rotunda

[patent dagger]

And eckharts bs also involved fev

[patent dagger]

Funny thing we never hear wilzig name dogmeat anything, thats the ghoul

Also the enclave maintains a train but won’t fix holes in the wall

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, it is Coop who names her.

[patent dagger]

I wonder if wilzig gave her one we never hear

[mystic plaza]

it's possible, yeah

[obtuse niche]

Was probably unable to call her anything besides cx404

[rain breach]

Isn't it weird that when the bombs fell, Cooper was with his daughter, but somehow she got to the Vegas Vault in the short span of the great war?

[mystic plaza]

Not really, we don't know what happened, yet.

[fluid sigil]

1 more month and this chat will no longer relevant 💔

[queen swift]

E =Fallout Season 2 spoilers no more

[random bramble]

I imagine she’s gonna get picked up by a vertibird dodging nukes and shit

Very cinematic

[heady jasper]

That would've been cool to have her be the inspiration for that in universe

[pulsar lintel]

They’re blond, white, and female… that’s pretty much where the resemblances end

[compact quail]

https://static0.polygonimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/fallout-season-2-president.jpg

"Good evening Ladies and Gentlemen, Brave men and women of the Enclave all, who have gathered here today. I am pleased to announce that the final phase of our plan is now complete, and the Diode rests safe in our hands once more. The blood-sucking corporate moguls remain convinced that they are in charge, blissfully unaware of the hand that guides the steering wheel, for there is only one force greater than capitalism - patriotism. Where they would sell our nation to the highest bidder and use the apocalypse for the preservation and accumulation of wealth, we who rally behind the flag are called to serve a higher purpose.

If the Resource Wars taught us anything, it is that none of our adversaries, neighbors or any foreign nation for that matter is to be trusted or pitied: Every single one of them is an impediment to our righteous path. If they've learned of the technology we miraculously created here, they would undoubtedly attempt to seize it from us. Worse, they might feel entitled alongside with some of our more treasonous citizens to sharing it with us. To leech of the product of American innovation, pollute our values with international agendas, and make Communists of us all under the guise of peace and prosperity.

But fear not, for we shall strike both them and the domestic threat of the weak and pliable masses from within before this nightmarish vision could unfold. But we will survive, and from the ashes, usher America to its proper place as the sole proprietor of Earth, and beyond, with a new breed of citizenry that can harbor no sedition, and knows how to follow their superiors' commands. This is the moment we have been preparing for... I will see all of you in your designated Control Stations soon.

God bless America, and God Bless.... The Enclave."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu7xoQJkJbg

[random bramble]

What the larp

[compact quail]

It's not LARP, It's a season 3 teaser, trust.

[heady jasper]

Okay and lol cooper Howard looks nothing like the vault boy

He's got brown hair vault boy is blonde

At least Steph's character matches every criteria to be the nuka girl and not look out of place

[pulsar lintel]

Vault boy looks like a cartoon. Regardless though what’s the point of the connection.

[heady jasper]

There was no connection lmao they were saying it would be cool if they made her

[heady jasper]

The nuka girl

[pulsar lintel]

Such cool

[heady jasper]

Okay redditor

[pulsar lintel]

Lol

Why are you upset about someone making fun of a meaningless glup shitto connection

It’s not even your idea

[heady jasper]

Yea and, why are you attacking it lol there's no reason for you to be an asshole

[pulsar lintel]

Because it’s stupid

Sorry

[heady jasper]

I think you may be projecting

[pulsar lintel]

No it’s just dumb. No need to take it as a personal attack.

[heady jasper]

Anyways

Bring back the mystery meat seller

[timid mural]

Im being delusional

[random bramble]

Bruh, that’s a slur

[heady jasper]

You're clueless

[random bramble]

Doesn’t make it not a slur

[heady jasper]

And it's not a slur lmao calling them little people is worse and they hate it

Or do you wanna call them dwarves hmm

[random bramble]

Neither are good, they are simply people with dwarfism

[heady jasper]

People so soft these days

Get over it

[random bramble]

Nah I just don’t see the need to use terms people dislike being called for zero reason

[heady jasper]

Oh so you decided they dislike it

[random bramble]

Takes zero effort to use non offensive terminology and be kind

[heady jasper]

Honestly go away, no one needs people like you trying to tone police in other people's defense

[heady jasper]

Takes zero effort to not get offended over everything too

[fickle jacinth]

[round crow]

[fickle jacinth]

@heady jasper removed a few of your posts for derogatory terms, don't sit there and argue back when someone is pointing out that it's a negative notion.

Do better.

[hybrid frigate]

Im pretty sure the fact cooper howard looks nothing like vault boy is literally a plot point like he gets blacklisted from the industry and vsult tech rebrands so instead of using cooper (a famous actor) as the face of their company they create the vault boy cartoon figure to replace him (but keep some of the features like the thumbs up)

I cant edit my message into a reply whoops

[random bramble]

Yeah this was my interpretation

[abstract scarab]

God I want Steph to disembowel me with a broken Nuka Cola bottle while mocking my American consumerism (respectfully)

[random star]

Down boi

[pearl ferry]

DAMN

[opaque lichen]

[rain breach]

That would be cool tbh

[hybrid frigate]

wonder what vault tec's plan is that it likely woke barbara and janey from cryo freeze to relocate them to colorado

i also wonder how alligned that plan will be to the current enclave we see in the tv show

[random bramble]

Barb is working for the enclave now not vault tec is the implication

House says the vault was for enclave personnel not vault tec

[hybrid frigate]

oh interesting, cant believe i missed that

need to rewatch the finale

[patent dagger]

It seems it got used for a mix since the guy left behind was not enclave

[mystic plaza]

yeah, this was also my read on it.

[patent dagger]

Only issue here is we see vault boy before coops arrest in barbs officer on a poster

[civic crypt]

i mean it could be a smaller used Mascot that they then roll out world wide after Coop's arrest

[patent dagger]

Point is they have posters with vault boy about before coops arrest

[civic crypt]

yea I doubt Coop is their only mascot, he was used for an ad campaign

[night maple]

after finishing episode 8, i can confidently say that season 2 was amazing

[random star]

Can I post esp 11 spoilers here

[trail cove]

The Fallout show has the chance to do the most off the rails shit ever

[ruby vortex]

im new to fallout series

[abstract scarab]

God I hope so

[analog current]

They need to show that the NCR is much more then just a few grunts with guns
the NCR probably has tanks

or had tanks

[random star]

They aren't gonna show us tanks

[obtuse niche]

there is still no/has never really been any evidence that they have tanks

[pulsar lintel]

Yeah it just comes from the Fallout Bible

The NCR likely does have a few laying around but they wouldn’t have the means to fuel them consistently.

[civic crypt]

i mean at this point they are though

just the first half, they ain't got tanks

[patent dagger]

Power armour is tanks

[compact bramble]

How about a giant robo scorpion instead

[trail cove]

Bethesda shall be redeemed by showing the NCR and Legion are not just using human wave horseshit

The show had an NCR armory filled with AA guns and mortars, and the Legion with anti-tank howitzers

[dawn iris]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo5iM2NaArI

can't wait to see Fallout version of it

most likely will be far larger and connected with railway system to other smaller Enclave bases and outposts in the Rockies

[compact bramble]

Oh yeah that shits in Colorado. Duh. Also I bet they have spaceships 🚀

[digital kestrel]

I know maximus getting in the fridge is an indiana jones reference (for the 100th time) But it also made me think of the original script for back to the future

[dawn iris]

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Multi-generational_starship

maybe they have

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Nawbc-a1Y

[hybrid frigate]

i dont know how i feel about the spaceships being introduced especially since they seem so reluctant to even add cars back into the franchise

[dawn iris]

well, we do know there are aliens

so.... technically there are starships already

[hybrid frigate]

thats actually true

[random star]

Aliens are cannon

[sacred idol]

I think the spaceship from 3/4 would make a fun easter egg. Just no plot relevance.

[random star]

The lone wander Easter egg

Please

[patent dagger]

A tattered 101 jump suit on display in the enclave base

[fallow gyro]

Yeah

Tbf its implied in the tv show that the great khans rode into novac on motorcycles, since they’re scattered about

[random star]

The wander is a mystery to what happened they just dissappeared

[patent dagger]

I like to think at some point they found amata again (whether that went well could be up for interpretation)

[sacred idol]

Kinda weird for the Enclave to display the armor of the guy who single-handedly fucked up their entire East Coast operations

[sacred idol]

It's implied he did activate the purifier with the Brotherhood. Deacon mentions clean water in the Capital Wasteland in 4.

The Prydwen was also made using parts of Adams Air Force Base, so Broken Steel is also canon.

[random star]

Yeah but after that he disappeared from the wasteland to be never seen again

[compact quail]

The Enclave's core fighting force has been nearly wiped out in Fallout 2 and 3, it's already kind of an oddity that they're still so organized and in control over at some remote Colorado research base, but in the meantime it looks like they definitely shifted into a more research-geared focus, trying to dominate the Wasteland through some of the tech they still have available like the Diode and automation chips... and wagon-strapped nukes apparently.

Wouldn't make sense to the see the Enclave fielding major military assets, they shouldn't really have them at that point, and indeed seems like they plan to manipulate everyone against each other with stuff like the chips and FEV instead.

[hybrid frigate]

im kinda curious what theyre even doing because from the impression weve gotten so far they already have all the resources they need to achieve their goal (and multiple different ways of doing it in fact)

like they have FEV, supposedly the ability to recreate cold fusion, access to nukes or at least vaults with them, and numerous automation chips

there are a few creative ways they could wipe out everyone in the wasteland with those

then again "the surface is the experiment" could mean they dont intend to wipe the surfacce clean anymore

[sacred idol]

Thaddeus transforming into whatever the fuck he's turning into:

https://tenor.com/view/tusk-kevin-smith-reveal-seal-creepy-gif-17037077

[pastel dock]

“Thaddeus will become the Master!”
Me: press X to doubt

[sacred idol]

I'm convinced it's a new creature we haven't seen before. They're probably gonna add it to Fallout 76 whenever they reveal it.

[civic crypt]

yea

the shows loved adding some new fun stuff to lore

[mystic plaza]

This talking point always bothers me because I have zero idea what or where people grabbed it from other than community talking points. There is and never was a confirmation that the Enclave's full fighting force is the one we see in FO2, and FO3.
I've combed through dialogue, and lore beyond belief looking for the source of this talking point and it is never stated. The only things I could find are people on reddit just theorizing it.

None of dialogue or lore implications in either of those games has indicated as such. Rather, it's ambiguous, vague, and not concrete - there is no hard confirmation or things like that indicating this. We, as the community, always just assumed that it was the Enclave's main force but it's never told, or communicated that way - even in Fallout 2, there is a map indicating the Enclave has bases all over the world and the U.S. albeit it is not touched upon until later, but even then. The subtext was always supposed to make you think this. But FO76 and FO4, and now the TV Show have pretty much confirmed that the Enclave we fought was just 'a portion' of their forces, not their main and not their majority.

[patent dagger]

True how do we know richardson was the true enclave leader

[mystic plaza]

We don't, it's never explicitly stated - he's just a descendent of the LPOTUS. Assuming he even went to the Oil Rig, if he was cryofrozen, then that also changes things.

The lore never expands upon the Enclave bases until after FO3, because the main sect/portion we focused on is gone. So now, our attention is turned to all their other potential locations, and other sects that we didn't explore, see, yet.

[patent dagger]

If mr krabs is still on ice

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, also im not of the belief all of the Enclave's eggs would be held in one basket, either.

[patent dagger]

We always assumed the enclaves central base was the oil rig but maybe not

[mystic plaza]

Which is funny because technically, the Oil Rig wasn't around long enough under their control to be a central base - pre-war, other locations were.
I remember we talked about this, the Oil Rig wasn't theirs initially, they took it over months before the bombs fell, then it became theirs. There's locations out there that they've had control over the entire time pre-war, and post-war.

[patent dagger]

Well raven rock was speculated as plausible location in game

I’d still be amused if enclave central was under toronto

[compact bramble]

Man, you’ve got some of my favorite well thought out takes in the server

You and @safe pewter are alright

[mystic plaza]

Can't tell if you're memeing or dead serious. 😂

[mystic plaza]

Yes, the reality being more so that Raven Rock was empty aside from pre-ZAX Eden. Which i still think is sus in itself, btw.

[mystic plaza]

This would be funny. lol
I do wonder if they even have a 'central control' or 'central headquarters' i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't or if there was - it's something beyond what we'd expect.

[compact bramble]

Dead serious fam ❤️

[mystic plaza]

I appreciate it. ❤️

[compact bramble]

I love well thought out opinions

[hybrid frigate]

what if the enclave on control station enclave were just another experiment of the real cryofrezzed enclave like "wonder what happens if we leave a bunch of our people left on an oil rig to interbreed and indoctrinate themselves under a human purity ideology for over a century and see what happens" similar to a vault experiment

cause when you really think about it the whole oil rig group really does feel like the outcome of a vault experiment

[mystic plaza]

Even then, this is possible. Lol
Like this is my whole point - i don't know where the idea, the aforementioned Deepstate pre-war, suddenly put all their forces in one place and that's it.

[grizzled garden]

id like to imagine we havent yet seen the strongest enclave branch yet

[mystic plaza]

I agree.

[iron canopy]

I think that’s just like dumb

We did see the strongest Enclave branch, it was the Fallout 2 one. Direct continuation of the Presidents Cabinet. Full on army. Frank Horrigan. And a gigantic base in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

Bethesda just wants the Fallout show to be as “vanilla Fallout” as possible. Same groups of always, in the same setting as always, with the same story as always.

[mystic plaza]

We didn't.
And there's no lore in FO2 that specifically states, or emphasizes that they are the strongest. It's just what the narrative focuses on - which doesn't make them the strongest. It's just that it's the Enclave that we've seen.

And 76 reinforces this by other Cabinet members being elsewhere.

So not all Cabinet members were on the Oil Rig.

[iron canopy]

But my point is that the Enclave was already gone. We don’t need more Enclave, because then what’s the point of the games even? All choices have lead to the Enclave being able to just nuke every successful civilization. So your telling me when the NCR assaulted Navarro, and started opening all the Vaults in California, not even Hank deccided to do something or the higher ups?

So you’re telling me, a vault just a few kilometers away in plain sight and many other around the NCR’s capital, (the literal biggest nation post-war which capital seems reduced to just a 50’s suburbs ignoring the adobe buildings and location of the og Shady Sands), was never contacted by an NCR patrol?

Bethesda wants to reset the West Coast, make everyone remnants to make another game in San Francisco where you’ll have to choose a faction and have a final battle with

[mystic plaza]

It wasn't gone. The portion the narrative focused on, was gone - just that branch. It's like saying IF FO2 implies the BOS has bases around the world - but because the one we see in FO2, that we end up wiping out that means the Faction is 100% gone. No that's not how it works, especially when the Enclave is described as having contingencies out the ass, and having bases, and areas under their control that we haven't seen yet.
The subtext and underlining part of the narrative was the Enclave in FO2, Fo3, and FNV are all from the same exact branch. When narratively, even in FO2 they're shown to have bases all over the world. It's just non-sensical to assume that is the factions entire strength.

[mystic plaza]

It's almost like the Enclave can make mistakes, like any other faction?
Hank was also under different orders, idk how hard it is for y'all to understand the Enclave doesn't operate from a central command. One branch doesn't answer to the other in most cases.

Eden & Eckhart's existence are proof of this.

[hybrid frigate]

yeah i dont think the reemergence of the enclave is too eggregious especially since the ongoing implication is that this new enclave might as well be a new faction given its not the same as the one encountered in 2,3,nv

[grizzled garden]

ed-e also mentions a chicago enclave presence

[mystic plaza]

This too, like we're pretending the ONLY Enclave is the same branch in fo2, fo3, and fnv, when there's been lore countering this in each game.

[iron canopy]

I’m just tired of the Enclave and how they basically wiped New Vegas.

All these interesting factions, new takes on the world, all wiped back to remnants and gangs because bruh the Enclave was at it again? What happened to the Big Mt? The Cloud? The Divide and the Tunnelers?

All players actions are completely useless because New Vegas was just destroyed by the Enclave. Forget all the socioeconomic and political commentary of the game, the Legion are dumb and the NCR are vaguely problematic, House is a psychopath, the BOS is the strongest again, and the Enclave is back, as always

[mystic plaza]

You can be tired of them, that's fine. It doesn't make the analysis of their existence null and void though. In both FO2 and FNV. There's evidence showing the Enclace is literally all over. You can pretend the Map in Richardson's office doesn't exist, or you can try to pretend Ed-E's dialogue is meaningless - but it doesn't mean they're gone. Nothing in lore or dialogue has suggested the Enclave's force we encounter in the games is the one and only singular strongest one. I'd argue present some evidence at the very least that this is the case - because there's plenty suggesting that it isn't.

[iron canopy]

But we have seen them how many times? Four countin the show. Asides they don’t really show like anything? They nuked the world, but why? Just to be different branches without a central command. Oh no, forget it. They apparently have Phases never mentioned before, ignored by the Enclaves biggest genocidial projects.

Also my point still stands, they’ve flanderized every faction to oblivion. Even the BoS was kind of forgotten at the end. No more socioeconomic and political commentary other than the Enclave just wants to mind control people or turn everyone into superhumans. Because, that’s it? They’re the big bad?

[compact quail]

It's deduction and game sense, not explicit clarification. If you only analyze lore that is directly spelled out and assume everything that hasn't been written in stone in the most blatant way possible has an equal probability of being the case as anything else, then you're going to come up with really kooky and unlikely theories for every piece of media you consume, which might have a small chance of being adopted by the writer, we don't really know, but which we can still summarize the feasibility of ourselves.

Once again, you are opting to act like the Enclave fought in FO2 and FO3 was the equivalent of some NCR Garrison with some junior commander in charge and the troops assigned to that region. While in reality, we fought the people who were serving physically and directly under the respective Presidents and Generals, who themselves tell us they are the most important representatives of the Enclave when we speak to them, and then we end up killing them, their lietuenants, all their forces, decimate their base upon all its units, and salt the earth.

Both of those occasions were also in the most prominent pre-war/ post-war centers of the USA - California and the Capital Wasteland.

We've already had this discussion before so I don't want to repeat it, there is zero no extrapolation to make where some Enclave commander in Missisipi was somehow the 'more important enclave'

You want to scream from the rooftops that it's still 'hypothetically possible', we can do that, but there is no active reason to believe that, and many reasons to believe that Washington DC's and California's Enclaves led directly by the President were important

Although I will grant you that in order to resurrect the Enclave ( and basically everyone else from the past with their universal popularized cryochamber plot device ), the show might just do that by preserving the LPOTUS in a cryochamber at the colorado research facility. But this whole business is actually very much not in line with what the games have set up for us

Just like they've put the enormous Enclave control vault 'hidden somewhere' underneath Vegas with some tunnel entrance that House apparently knew about, even though none of that was in the heads of any New Vegas game developer, it's all ad-hoc writing

Honestly this idea has so many plot-holes that would have to be filled, like what the hell would those fabricated substantial Enclave Military Forces that are supposedly in Albama and Texas and Wymoing doing during the world-changing events of paramount mission significance to the Enclave's cause in D.C and California, just sitting around twiddling thumbs, jerking each other off for 200 years? Putting down hillbilly mutant rebellions?

Like I said, the only way the show can pull off Colorado with some plausible deniability is by:

1. Putting another President, the LPOTUS in there to cement its strategic value and as the 'endgame president' for the Enclave's recalamation day or whatever
2. Make it a secretive isolationist community ( Which it is ) that is mostly scientists tasked with basically being a hiding spot for the Diode and LPOTUS

[patent dagger]

Most of the cabinet tbh was elsewhere 3 got to whitesprings and others seemed to be in various places

How would you handle the mysterious stranger in show

[carmine quiver]

lustfully

[patent dagger]

I’d do it in such a way he just appear to someone alone (likely lucy) though ghoul would be fun

[violet elm]

give it to Norm

maybe moments where he has a brush with death before being saved

[copper ginkgo]

I made this what yall think

[carmine quiver]

my president <3 🫡

[copper ginkgo]

Yup

[compact bramble]

I saw an edit where it was Charlie Kirk handing the Diode to Trump and then Epstein comes up on the sceeen instead 💀

[carmine quiver]

LAMO

[silent mountain]

Fallout 4 model looks like his face is melting

[carmine quiver]

cuz Bethesda decided to go the wax route

[silent mountain]

I think its bc of the shadow cast by the eyebrows being way too emphasised

[carmine quiver]

elderly

[sacred idol]

Tbf it's better than how people looked in 3/NV imo. Much more realistic, despite limited customization options.

[silent mountain]

Yeah atleast the faces actually look like they have bones underneath

[carmine quiver]

don't disrespect gamebryo like that ✋😔

possible controversial take: i prefer gamebryo's faces

FaceGen Software

[dawn iris]

Janey Cooper - the Madam President of the US in Season 3

at least in the eyes of the Enclave

it would be a really good twist on the Ghoul's storyline - trying to find and save his daughter, only to find out she is now the big bad of the whole Fallout universe

[compact quail]

I suggested this here actually #1447296686111068221 message

It would be pretty much the same storyline as Fallout 4 with the Institute and Shaun if they do it

[dawn iris]

I was first here to say that Barbara is long dead and that Janey is in her 60s or 70s and is current leader of the Enclave in the Rockies from the Cheyenne Mountain Complex (the Fallout version of it on steroids)

[compact quail]

A pretty big problem with that though is that I don't think the Enclave elects female presidents, even in the post-war they never had one, and they are modeled on 1950's American political sentiments after all

[dawn iris]

well the more old and traditional Enclave is dead / destroyed

the Enclave in the Rockies seems to operate now completely on its own and TV show has options to invent new things, such as Enclave being more open to recruiting healthy humans who pass Enclave's medical screening and electing female president / leader of the Enclave

[compact quail]

Actually thanks to the show's ultimate retcon plot device known as the popularized cryochamber which is apparently now operational everywhere in the wasteland, the Rockies Enclave might even be the older Enclave than the games' Enclave, seeing as how Wilzig for example is a scientist in the compound and frozen before the war

A lot of them might be pre-war Americans

[dawn iris]

I mean, the whole Enclave's thing about everyone else except them being mutants that need to be killed on sight is a dead-end, the Enclave in the Rockies being a big remnant of the Enclave or the whole big separate division of the Enclave almost certainly needed reforms at least when it comes to recruiting manpower

even if there are hundreds or thousands of cryochambers

recruited human wastelanders used as ordinary common boots on the ground

nothing above that of course

[compact quail]

Well, I don't know, again the show introduced a running theme where enormous batches of pre-war people just pop out of cryochambers whenever necessary. Regardless there's almost certainly not a manpower shortage for the position of a single President

[patent dagger]

Wilzig could have betrayed the enclave for the most obvious pf reasons they left his family to die

I do believe the ghoul may end up killing janey as an enclave soldier

[dawn iris]

yeah but TV show always has free hands to say something like:

yeah, the Enclave has hundreds or thousands of cryochambers but they also decided to recruit additional manpower that passsed their medical screening

[compact quail]

Anyway as funny as I myself mentioned it might be, it's not happening. Too whacky, too deviant from the resolution to the ghoul's arc that everyone wants at this point after he's been through the shit for 3 seasons, and too repeitive because he already had a big "My wife is a big bad" revelation, probably not gonna do it again with his daughter

[patent dagger]

To me the ghouls arc may end up being he let the wastes twist him

[compact quail]

Clearly not the dierction they are going, we've already had tons of episodes where we view him in that light, and now there's 'A New Hope' vibe. Directors usually don't like to flip-flop this much with characters unless it's a comedy or 'camp' genre

[dawn iris]

well everything is possible

Janey in her 50s or 60s being the leader of the Enclave would certainly be a good and interesting twist

[compact quail]

Not if you manage to tap into the artistic approach of the directors by reviewing everything they put out so far

[dawn iris]

okay, relax bro, I get you

[patent dagger]

Nah because i think barbs alive so older but not that old

[dawn iris]

I think Barbara is already dead from natural causes

[patent dagger]

Who is the more positive influence on ghoul lucy or dogmeat

[compact quail]

If you want the most 'movie-esque' conclusion to the Ghoul's storyline judging from all we've seen so far - The Ghoul is 200 years old, weary, lived several lifetimes, not much of a possibility for him to just lead a happily ever after with constant serum whiffing and a human family. Ghoul probably ends up reuniting with his family briefly but then sacrifices himself for a better wasteland like he always wanted to somehow

And leaves a better world for Janey, yada yada

The only other option, which would be way too cartoonish and also ruin the Fallout universe itself big time in anticipation of Fallout 5 or other titles, is if they somehow developed an Anti-FEV that can revert ghouls and mutants back into humans and regrow their missing body parts

But like I said, reversing the effects of radiation which is Fallout's environmental storytelling, and reverting its most iconic creatures back into ordinary humans like the Enclave's pipedream ( Although the Enclave is fine with just killing them all ) would completely erase the Fallout from Fallout

[dawn iris]

nah, that's too much optimistic and utopian resolution of the Fallout universe

Fallout is bittersweet, "everything looks cool until it isn't"

[copper ginkgo]

Bro I made that

[pastel dock]

Yeah, looks like he has a case of lazy face. Or a botched botox injection gone wrong.

[copper ginkgo]

I made that

The Last US President is ready for Presidents day

[surreal sierra]

Notice how the show is the only Fallout installment where the BoS isn't winning, and it's been the best thing to happen to Fallout since New Vegas?

https://tenor.com/view/coincidence-i-think-not-coincidence-i-think-not-the-incredibles-gif-5096707

[sacred idol]

All hail Quintus the Destroyer

[pastel dock]

Quintus is going to get killed.

[compact bramble]

Spoilers: Janey is actually Tandi

[lilac raven]

So House claims the Enclave were responsible for sacking the Strip, may explain their weird behavior.

[patent dagger]

Honestly would be funnier if the deathclaws just did that of their own accord

[carmine quiver]

-# bc the Brotherhood is a bunch of glorified, circle-jerking, racist looting cultists who need to be wiped out.

-# Roger Maxson didn't die for this shit to be his legacy 😭🙏

[carmine quiver]

old Tandi jumpscare

[pulsar lintel]

That’s not FO2 Tandi’s usual background…

[compact bramble]

AAAAAHH

[carmine quiver]

ACKUTALLY ITS FROM THE INDEPENDENT FALLOUT WIKI SO ITS REAL AND UR WRONG

-# im joking :p idk how they did that

official link

[pulsar lintel]

I’ll have to rescind my support for the independent fallout wiki after this grave error…

[meager elm]

Best of the bear lowkey

[daring cloud]

She looks fucking zooted I never noticed that

[elder fiber]

show fans, i made a new version of my ncr cosplay

[queen swift]

“The House Always Wins” type gays when The House doesn’t win: 😭

I’M CRYING

I MEAN *GUYS😭

[mystic plaza]

[compact bramble]

I’ve got such memes to share ._.

Memes to dazzle, memes to bewilder, memes of every sort

[queen swift]

Shush.

[mystic plaza]

[queen swift]

Lad💔

[mystic plaza]

[compact bramble]

Gonna start using this as a reaction image whenever a House stan says something stupid

[queen swift]

I’m not exactly a Robert House “stan” but I am interested in his technology.

But you using that on Mr. House “stans” would be mad hilarious.

[civic crypt]

Did yall see that Justin Theroux who plays House says that he does belive that House based the Victor robot after Cooper lol

[queen swift]

NO BUT YAOI!?!?

I’m not crazy?

[civic crypt]

I get it, he didn’t say modeled. He said based as in the whole cowboy vibe

[queen swift]

Didn’t House state that he doesn’t like Cooper Howard’s movies?

Either he was lying, making a parody of him or an explanation that is not heterosexual.

[sacred idol]

God this image creeps me out

[queen swift]

He’s fucking pissed pardner.

[civic crypt]

Theroux said that he thinks House was lying about not liking the movies

[queen swift]

I felt like he ships them or at least think they would be cute platonically but I cannot prove it as I have never seen him talk about this.

Also, I had to pause my YouTube Video. You cannot believe the face I made when seeing this.

[mystic plaza]

He said he's not a fan of movies in general.

[queen swift]

Ah.

Well at least I got it half right. Surprising for me with my faulty memory.

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, he says he doesn't care for fiction. Says it's not real, that it doesn't matter.

I think people got confused by the bit of House clarifying that he didn't call him to the Lucky 38 because he's a fan of his work.

[queen swift]

My mindset, but more passively. I do care for fiction but I can’t pick up a book that’s non-fiction. I love movies and games though.

[queen swift]

I’m not one to get confused by that, I’m the one to forget and blur.

Though I do see why people could get confused.

I’ve done my fair share of praising this scene but the way both actors delivered those lines was music to my ears.

We need more House and Cooper Howard interactions, either flashbacks (less likely, maybe) or actual present day interactions, next season. I won’t be utterly disappointed if there is not a lot of those.

Might I describe my text as “yapping”?

[mystic plaza]

Probably won't get any more interactions given last we saw of Cooper was him getting arrested, we're gonna get more Barb, Coop, and Janey flashbacks - or them showing how Coop became a ghoul.
I imagine we'll see House interact with Max & Lucy as long as they're in Vegas.

[patent dagger]

See i am increasingly of the mind coop got to vault 12 given the bakersfield refs

[queen swift]

I also predict we’ll see House interacting with the two lovebirds, it’s going to happen, definitely.

I’m not just talking about flashback interactions with Mr. Howard and Mr. House because as I said, it’s less likely. I’m hoping for present day/Pre-war interactions though, which there would at least be one, or that’s just what I tell myself.

[mystic plaza]

It depends, dunno how far House's technological reach would extended atm outside of Victor. Unless we see more of it, i see it super unlikely Cooper will go back, unless he specifically has to.

[mystic plaza]

It's possible. I dunno yet.

[patent dagger]

Its not like that vault could keep people out and he keeps name dropping it

[patent dagger]

It could extend to his own products giving him a way to lucy

[mystic plaza]

Yes, but how he became a ghoul is probably much more significant given he shares more unique attributes with people who became ghouls via non-natural means. Idk if it's specifically tied to Vault 12, but we'll see. He could've been there at some point, but Cooper has also wandered to a bunch of places.

[mystic plaza]

It's possible. We'll have to wait and see.

[dawn iris]

well it was all fine and dandy discussing here

see you all in 1.5 - 2 years

[hybrid frigate]

I really wish we got to see more of house working with cooper. I loved their dynamic together in the finale their personalities just fit together so well

But seeing house presumably now interacting with the other 2 leads moving forward will be interesting since I dont really know how that'll go

[queen swift]

So do I.

House and Cooper’s dynamic is honestly one of the best I’ve seen in fiction(mostly movies and tv) so far like honestly

[queen swift]

Don’t look at me like that.

And don’t remind me what I’ve said in the past about them.

[lilac raven]

I definitely got a feeling House will interact with Lucy and Maximus more than the Cooper at this point

especially with the screen flickering of House being there

Now that he has the diode, I'm not sure what can he possibly do....Perhaps give Lucy and Maximus a quest to restore him at full power? Having Securitrons on standby or connect to a grid?

[pulsar lintel]

He’ll probably be instrumental in repelling the legion yeah. They might introduce the fortification hill bunker again.

I don’t see the NCR beating the Legion alone just for storytelling reasons

And they seem wildly outnumbered

[lilac raven]

House/NCR got their hands full. They have to deal with a full on Legion assault that seems to have at least 250+ enemies right outside the gate AND a BoS group that will undoubtedly build a Liberty prime

I wouldn't be surprised if a month passes and once the legion is repelled, BoS is going to come knocking.

[violet elm]

the Hidden valley bunkers look like a pleasant place to stay in

[pulsar lintel]

Living in them for 4 years would probably drive me insane

At least the BoS have VR pods there

[violet elm]

the VR pods probably kept them entertained alongside the occassional patrols

[queen swift]

Most likely

[patent dagger]

Well given the scribe in charge clearly chose his apprentice for looks i can imagine there is some strange stuff

[violet elm]

I have a theory that the VR being played, assuming they can do this is the recreation of Operation Sunburst

[patent dagger]

Again given the scribe in charge

[carmine quiver]

lowkey still mad abt Maximus' and Lucy's no major character development.

i mean, it's there i guess?????… but you gotta squint for it.

mainly i believe this is a me issue, because i like things to be spread out and very detailed when it comes to such extensive storytelling. S2 was rushed to lead up to the whole Enclave thing, but stillllllllllalallaalpspsppspsps

SO MUCH MORE COULD'VE BEEN IMPLEMENTED TO BUILD THESE CHARACTERS and all we got was crumbssssndnmdmdm

it didn't hit my serotonin levels the way i wanted it to, therefore i am upset.
-# a totally sensical argument. purely formed from facts, logic, and emotional maturity. definitely doesn't sound like a little wah-wah piss baby having a whinge. /sar

[lilac raven]

I feel there was development. Lucy finally letting go of the vaultie persona (or seems like it) and embracing the harsh reality that is the wasteland. Maximus dropping the BoS to embrace his true origins, being NCR.

[hybrid frigate]

yeah id say lucy and maximus got tons of character development this season and the enclave prewar stuff was some of the best content in season 2 - i think yeah overall the pacing is generally slow but it is a show thats designed around the fact its gonna spam multiple seasons

and id only say pacing is slow in terms of character development, but imo that makes it feel more natural. in terms of plot beats and just stuff going on i think the pacing is sitll okay - the prewar storyline for example was spread out quite nicely

[queen swift]

I think you think this because Lucy still loved her father a lot and was still very flawed in season 2.

Maximus definitely had character development though

[patent dagger]

Yeah max saw the brotherhood for what it was and tried to do the right thing (albeit badly)

[fierce umbra]

I was humming that one song from episode 7 and realized I sounded like a idiot

[meager elm]

Bro how did we not know she was Canadian look at her

[carmine quiver]

somehow, (READ: TO ME. THIS IS A VERY HEAVILY BIASED TAKE - NOT A WHOLLY FACTUAL OBJECTIVE ONE) the character development feels fast paced, but with only minimal substance.

Lucy's one is the one that irks me the most. BUT ✋

hopefully S3 does a good job

[carmine quiver]

that was the main thing that i felt wasn't done properly (AGAIN, READ: TO ME - NOT WHOLLY FACTUAL AND OBJECTIVE).

there was no mentioning of her mother iirc

[queen swift]

I don’t think Maximus was all that too fast paced. It made sense to me

[queen swift]

Lucy’s definitely had flaws. She would have at least got a few punches on her father knowing what she knows. She hasn’t grown out of the vaultie persona which she has been shown to be growing out of

Maximus made sense while Lucy definitely got held back

[carmine quiver]

i don't know how to put it, but it feels like he hasn't learnt much, despite the evident growth he has gone through.

it's just a weird feeling, so i'm probably wrong.

[queen swift]

Maximus has all the knowledge to betray the brotherhood. Remember that he has his own moral compass and it developed with meeting Lucy.

[carmine quiver]

S1 finale made it seem like her journey into becoming a more hardened wastelander - but still a good person who tries to do the right thing, was gonna be more than… her literally not developing except becoming more wary.

and having done drugs

[queen swift]

Brotherhood justifies murder of children which is against with Maximus stands for, therefore he leaves the Brotherhood.

[carmine quiver]

and being crucified

okay i think ive got the words for it

[surreal halo]

Yeah it seems S1 has Lucy learning to square her ideals with the reality of the wasteland, and S2 has her learning more the limits and shortcomings of how she wants to act

[queen swift]

I think Maximus turning point was not obvious when first watching but gets obvious on the second watch which gets some points.

Lucy’s development wasn’t the best, especially at the end. I know that’s her father but she would at least try to attack him. Though justified because that’s her father, she did side with someone who killed multiple vault members so like. Just punch him, just once.

The heartbreaking scene of her and a basically mind suicided Hank was definitely a tear jerker but still felt empty to me.

[mystic plaza]

This tilted me lowkey, like ??? Lucy not mentioning Rose AT ALL was so fucking weird, and jarring.

[surreal halo]

But like a lot of S2 it's very drawn out and it's up in the air whether it will stick

[queen swift]

Yeah, it should have been her motive. To avenge her mother and confront her father.

[carmine quiver]

i'm concerned that, due to his moral compass being a bit of a wild card and this fascination with being "The Hero", it'll blind him once again and lead him down a bad path/morally grey. which is why House better stay the

F U C K

away

[queen swift]

FUCK OFF HOUSE

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, like i understand justice for the people of shady sands, YOUR MOTHER WAS ONE OF THEM. Why no mention???

[carmine quiver]

it took me a while to realise that Rose was never fucking brought up and like 😭😭😭

[queen swift]

I JUST REALISED

[queen swift]

Cared about her evil dad more instead of her based mom

[mystic plaza]

I called it out when the episode aired, like it's weird, idk it rubbed me the wrong way lol

[carmine quiver]

i can concur with that

[mystic plaza]

it's not like rose was absent lol lucy talks about Rose in S1 even

[queen swift]

Evil guy vs lovely parental figure who do we care about more

[mystic plaza]

plus with the revelation that Moldaver gives her at the end of S1, it lowkey feels irrelevant af. Lol

[carmine quiver]

the whole Hank and Lucy finally meeting was not done as well as it should've.

idk why they skipped over the fact he killed her mum and a whole city via a nuke.

like, they still could've implemented that plus her being sad over him dying, but changing it up a bit by making Lucy have more of a rage/grief induced reason to kill her dad.

[queen swift]

Writers: Focus on the dynamics AND PLEASE DONT INCLUDE THE DEAD MOM. Also.. good job on those House and Cooper interactions. The House fans are screaming.

[mystic plaza]

I was lowkey expecting her to blow up, like - all that build up for her being conflicted about what she's gonna do. The first thing she should've confronted him about was her Mother.

[carmine quiver]

not just: "oh ur kidnapping people and brainwashing them."

bc y'know, HE KILLED HER MUM???????

WITH A NUKE

[mystic plaza]

The issue is that, i could somewhat overlook the gloss over, IF they didn't focus on it so much in the s1 finale and it not get mentioned AT ALL the entire season. Lmfao

[queen swift]

Rose: Hi!

WRITERS: GO BACK INTO THE DUNGEONS OF SEASON LOCKING YOU GO. DONT GO INTO THE SEASON 2 DOOR.

I saw Season 3 LIVE so here’s all the stuff you need to know(Lie, not true, don’t believe me please):

Rose is mentioned again.
Lucy and Max are officially dating
Lucy and Max are also working with Mr. House to save New Vegas.
Somehow Mr. House tracks The Ghoul’s ass down, get away from him man.

And I’m still writing fiction of season 3.

[surreal halo]

I think it's warranted for Lucy to focus solely on this project Hank is working on. Like until she gets him in cuffs she's trying to be discrete and non-confrontational, and then she's appalled and conflicted with the potential of his scheme. Imo these beats would be fine on their own if the season hadn't wasted so much time saying little to nothing about the themes they rest on.

[queen swift]

This is all true (no it is not)

[mystic plaza]

Again, I would agree, if it wasn't given so much focus in S1, only to be completely abandoned in S2, it's not like Lucy was fully aware of the project when she got there anyway. The moment she started speaking of 'justice' for shady sands, her not bringing up her Mom is just baffling to me.
I don't mind her being focused on the project, but it is complete nonsense for Lucy not to mention her Mother at all given how big the revelation was built up to be in the finale with her Mom. Maybe it gets focused on later, idk? But it's kinda moot now that Hank wiped his own mind, so that plot hit a brick wall.

Lucy consistently talks about her Mom, how she misses her, etc etc, and they show us that flashback of her on the surface several times throughout season, and then it's reveal to be shady in the finale.

[surreal halo]

I only watched the show this month and it seemed to me that whatever relevance Rose had was basically resolved in the S1 finale. She didn't even know her mom, she was quite young when she died. And I'm certain she didn't mention her much

[mystic plaza]

If this was true, her emotions wouldn't have been as strong enough in the revelation to sway Lucy over to supporting Moldaver against her Father, nor would have Betty lied to cover for what Hank did. Cause Moldaver focuses on the fact that Hank killed her Mom, Moldaver doesnt focus on the citizens. She focuses on Rose. It's more of the fact Lucy didn't know Rose BECAUSE of Hank's actions. It is almost unrealistic for Lucy not to mention Rose in the slightest - I'm not asking for a whole monologuing scene. But the weirdness around not even mentioning Rose period is an odd writing decision.

[surreal halo]

Rose was important in that scene as living (barely) proof of Hank's lie. She drove it home emotionally, yes. But it's the other people he hurt and will hurt that drives Lucy against her father, in every other moment. And again, I think they wrote scenes where it's plausible and not odd that Rose goes unmentioned. The scenes were just mediocre or unneccessary.

[mystic plaza]

I disagree for the reasons I listed above, but I'd rather not go in circles about it lol
to each their own.

[novel spade]

Scene was kino though, it looks straight out of classic fallout

Barely any meat left, just a skull but still alive

Best ghoul portrayal yet, cooper barely qualifies as a ghoul

[patent dagger]

Coops a 3/nv ghoul

They are smoother

[queen swift]

Mentioning NV and Ghoul just reminds me of that guy who thought he was a ghoul and genuinely called the courier “smooth skinned”

[patent dagger]

Ah the guy who killed vault 34 by accident

[lilac raven]

The fact they didn't even bother to make her a robobrain is fucking wild.

at least shield her head so people can't see it, jesus christ.

[patent dagger]

Robo brains have personality defects and they wanted her personality preserved

[abstract scarab]

Hmm? The ghouls in 3 are fuck ugly disgusting looking

[random bramble]

I really don’t hate the 4 ghouls besides the eyes

The ferals are stupid tho

[abstract scarab]

Th ferals being deformed looking for no reason is annoying

[pulsar lintel]

Is FO4 the first game to give ghouls ears?

Found that kind of weird, assumed cartilage like that would have just rotted off alongside the nose

[random bramble]

I’d prefer some have it some don’t

Ghouls should all be at different stages of gross

[random bramble]

Yeah the ferals look completely different then non ferals

[meager elm]

they also changed the ghouls dont need to eat or drink or atleast very little amounts

[random star]

They do need to eat

Killed that one guy for ass jerky

[random bramble]

They have always had weird inconsistent rules about ghouls eating

[random star]

Sense day 1

[random bramble]

Every game has incidents of both

Fridge kid in 4, the guy buried alive in 2, the necropolis citizens needing water

Ghouls needing water in 3

[meager elm]

he was also buried for months

[random bramble]

He had an iv drip

[meager elm]

of radaway

[random bramble]

He wouldn’t just eat ass jerky for fun

[random bramble]

It was just an iv that people assume is radaway

[meager elm]

what other substance could it be though, maybe blood but it looked like radaway

[random bramble]

Saline for hydration

Nutrient drip

[meager elm]

i mean pop off but its unlikely

[random bramble]

The ghoul eats and gets thirsty

Ghouls definitely need less but most still need to eat and drink

[meager elm]

if you say so

[random bramble]

I mean I’ve provided the evidence, you have nothing to counter it

Ghouls seem to be able to hibernate to some degree but active ones need sustenance

[meager elm]

im not debating you, youre looking for a fight and i frankly dont care enough to fight someone with cheedle on their fingers

[random bramble]

I’m not looking to fight I’m just looking to agree on the lore that’s supported by evidence. If you see everything as a conflict that’s your own issue

[patent dagger]

The ghoul buried alive too, no indication he was fed or watered

[random bramble]

He had an iv drip which can provide both

[patent dagger]

I presumed that was drugs to keep him not feral

[random bramble]

It’s a fair presumption but still a presumption

[patent dagger]

Shocked he is not mad even if the ferality was held off

[sick crag]

Meow meow

[mystic plaza]

Eh, no.
I've said this before but the there seems to be a clear distinction and difference between people who become ghouls by normal means vs people who become ghouls via chems, or non-normal means if that makes sense.

[hybrid frigate]

i can see why mr house saying he was attacked and there being a securitron in the lucky 38 can imply independent ending but i feel like its left to implication. i think they left it vague enough where a player can still say whoever they sided with was a valid nv experience but ultimately still led to the events of the tv show (for example, caesar being dead could have happened after a legion victory, the securitron could be one of house's ones and house mentions multplile attacks which could imply he was killed in nv but equally could mean he was overthrown in a house ending)

[mystic plaza]

The issue I have with this, is that it is much more of an implication of an easter egg, than anything canonical. House specifically says multiple people with something to prove, and Cooper shuts him down before he continues. Meaning this isn't gonna get explored, at best the notion was a nod towards people who killed him in their playthroughs.

[hybrid frigate]

yeah i agree, in season 3 i doubt theyll touch on this again and focus moreso on the plot going forward so what little we have is likely what weve got to go on - that said, if all we're left with is what we have so far i still think you could argue any of the endings happened cannonically just as much as any other

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, this is entirely the point, I think. Any ending could've been canon.

[hybrid frigate]

its the best way of doing it imo because with how open ended nv is, it allows players to not say their NV experience was completely redudant while also allowing those events to all lead into the tv show regardless of what happened

[mystic plaza]

The unfortunate issue is that FNV glazers will NEVER be okay with it. lmfao

[hybrid frigate]

oh yeah the writers had an impossible task lmao. i think they did the best they could. the only alternative was to completely 100% commit to one specific ending but thats just gonna invalidate everyone's experience who didnt side with that faction so basically no matter how the writers handled it they were gonna piss off some fnv players who care alot about which ending was canon

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, which they specifically said they didn't want to invalidate anyone's experiences, so the narrative landmine they navigated, i think they did a good job. It's funny cause my nitpicky gripes are more or less in relation to things less in regards to FNV, but other beats with the show.

[meager elm]

I see what you mean, I just know its inconsistent on what's what. In fo3 there's a doctor trying to figure things like that out too

[mystic plaza]

Put it like this - ghouls you see out in the world, random, citizens, are more natural ghouls. Unique characters, more essential ones. Cooper, Desmond, Hancock, Fallout 76 PC, Eddie Winters, etc etc. These are more. . . unique, where they don't necessarily follow the standard norms that other ghouls would.

Where the citizens of the Underworld require food, the more unique ones, don't - they still consume, but they can exist a lot longer without it than others can. Like Eddie survived on minimal food in his bunker for who knows how long, right? So i mean.

At least this is sort of the distinction I've made when comparing the distinctions between them. Bethesda over the years has kind of made it a point to do so, I think even Obsidian followed this logic a bit with Raul. Raul was barely fed, and maintained in Tabitha's care, yet, he came out find - cept his creaky knees.

[meager elm]

I just don't understand the anti-feral chem if thats the case, Eddie didnt have any mention of needing it when he became a ghoul artificially. There was literally no mention of the drug until the show then it was placed in 76

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, IF i had to hedge a bet - I'd say FO5, when we get playable ghouls, is when we'll learn more about the serum. It's a newer addition, which is why even in 76, it's somewhat vague, doesn't even technically have a name, yet? Which i know isn't satisfying as an answer, but I imagine that they'll try to explain it in the next installment, at least that's the hope.

[meager elm]

I hope so, it just felt like a weird addition to have this whole speech in the game with the doctor in underworld trying to understand what makes him feral

And I thought about it too with Harold, he became a ghoul from the fev in Mariposa and lived a seriously long time (granted he was a tree eventually)

[hybrid frigate]

i hope harold/ the master is the route they take with thaddeus - he just becomes some new and unique sort of mutant

[mystic plaza]

If Bethesda wants to be interesting.
The new mutant faction that's introduced - it would be a nice tie in to have a scientist and or doctor who piggy-backed off of that Doctor's work in FO3, and the Scientist in Appalachia, to produce the serum on a larger scale, and funnel it into the Wasteland for the mutants, or ghouls in this case - that they view as kin.

It could be a super mutant doctor or a ghoul one, but having a character specifically created, while tied into the previous mentions from the games to build off of would solidify it and have it make more sense. And it would be a benefit, a net-positive because the goal would be for the character, to alleviate the plight of their kin in the Wasteland by having a medicine that can stave off their feral transformations.

[meager elm]

W9nder why I cant react here

[queen swift]

Is the 9 for courier 6🥹 /j

[meager elm]

but ajax could

bs man

[mystic plaza]

[meager elm]

WHAT KINDA SORCERY

[gloomy prism]

Something i was thinking about was... if the enclave scientist was there during the main vault tec board meeting when Barb said lets drop the bomb ourselves did he report it back? Also, if the enclave knew hank had the cold fusion that entire time back in the day howcome they didnt just get him... I don't think the Enclave drop the bomb tbh I think the chinese did it. Idk doesn't add up they could have step in anytime they wanted, but instead they let vault tec do all this work thinking they were the top dogs?

[patent dagger]

I presume pre war they could only steer vault tec, rather than outright order them to do things, it may also have been a case of double dipping wanting both tech

[queen swift]

The Ghoul, aka Cooper Howard, did not make enough of a point to Mr. House.

If I were him, I would have made that Pip-Boy fly into the sun.

But in all seriousness, I state again that I love that scene so much ugh.

[queen swift]

Some may call me a “glazer”, I prefer the term.

Uh.

UHM.

[worldly bloom]

I’m so unbelievably late to watching this episode oh my god 😭

Making coop wear the pipboy is just straight up evil 😭

[worldly bloom]

It’s so good to know my fear of roaches is alive and well

[violet elm]

if No bark is still alive in the TV show he might be 80 by now

[violet elm]

same here, my god the TV show Rad roach are goddamn terrifying, even if our protags have more guts to fight a radroach bare handed, an average smuck like me might die of a heart attack in my 20s before I can even reach 30

[worldly bloom]

Honestly I could barely look, I can’t handle a regular roach a rad roach might genuinely just scare me to death lmao

I quite enjoyed this episode, I loved everything about it, I do wonder how they’ll go about exploring all the other cans of worms they opened in the finale lol

[violet elm]

Fallout got me over my fear of Roaches, the TV show brought it back

[patent dagger]

I just love how deadly rad roaches in the show compared to the games

[violet elm]

if you're not the Fallout protag, Radroaches to the average bloke is just as dangerous as a deathclaw

especially to a vault dweller

[compact bramble]

Yeah I figured those guys were all level 1 and the difficulty setting was Very Hard

Seems like something that would happen in a Fallout game

[carmine quiver]

want one as a pet 🪳🎀

[compact bramble]

Ugh that makes me think of the person with the pet leech with the ribbon on it

“feeding time for princess again!! i rily just love
watching her get bigger from my blood V/V//)”

[queen swift]

House thought he was so based

[random star]

https://tenor.com/view/puss-in-boots-wolf-puss-in-boots-the-last-wish-wolf-puss-in-boots-the-last-wish-pick-it-up-sword-fight-gif-27423366

[carmine quiver]

i think the big ones are neat. the little ones… no. idk but i don't fuck with them.

the big ones look more polite

the small ones look like they're gonna mug you to get money for heroin

[violet elm]

and Vault Dweller, don't often experience much mutant attacks

[versed relic]

This kinda made me realize how many incostenties the show had https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvmAY4MRVLA