EPISODE 8

[dawn iris]

Enclave's sleeper agents

[solid grail]

God, we're gonna be LARP'ing as Joseph McCarthy once the first S3 trailer drops and we all start accusing everyone new who appears as being a chipped Enclave supa-secret sleeper agent.

[dawn iris]

what do you guys think - is there possibility that the Enclave in the Rockies (and possibly Midwest) recruits healthy wastelanders that pass the Enclave's medical screening in order to resolve its manpower shortage ?

Enclave's approach that "everyone except us is a mutant that needs to be killed" just simply can't hold anymore

[solid grail]

Hopefully they're not as pants-on-head stupid as the Brotherhood, though that admittedly is so low a bar it's sharing space with the Earth's core.

[dusk forge]

Lmao just one plot point got concluded lmao

[copper ginkgo]

Yo wsp

[copper ginkgo]

Potentially or we just microchip all of those unhealthy wastelanders , and then fev them

[pale ferry]

God Bless The Enclave

[zealous stirrup]

Yes they are bro. A leader. A druggie old schizophrenic woman. A annoying bitch. A mourning father. A synthetic robot in disguise. And Nate the rake

[harsh bolt]

🇺🇸 🦅

[copper ginkgo]

@pale ferry @harsh bolt check your terminals citizens

[outer rune]

horrible conclusion

[olive wadi]

It's a joke because you can kill House in 50 different ways in NV

[trail cove]

What I gleamed from the Finale for the implications of the credits:

• New Vegas will be the new capital city of the NCR probably
• Legion will besiege the city. NCR holds off initial assault so the Legion camps outside the borders of New Vegas, creating a drawn out war
• Super Mutants will play a role, probably pop up more and more (take advantage of the new war between Legion and NCR? Idk)
• Family is def in Colorado
• Free vials for Ghouls has to relate to Thaddeus in some way…maybe.

[wispy pulsar]

They showed the video game thing and played big iron so this season wasn’t all that dogshit.

[trail cove]

Why did you shoot the AT team 💢

[stoic flicker]

Hello thaiboy goon

[pulsar lintel]

In a meta sense yes, but it did not seem like a joke House was making towards Coop. Which is the confusing part.

Since, well, it means House was attacked multiple times by different people. Which is weird!

[olive wadi]

It's just a throw away line given how Cooper cuts him off and they never bring it back up

[random star]

Cooper whould have finished the job

[pulsar lintel]

Yes its throwaway, but all it contributes is just making the background to the state of Vegas in the show more confusing tbh

[dawn iris]

New Vegas won't be capital of the NCR, at best it will be another city under the NCR and only if NCR prevails against Legion and revived House (if he goes against NCR)

Enclave will launch invasion at the end of Season 3 to capitalize on NCR vs Legion vs BoS conflict

mind-controlled deathclaws, super mutants, and wastelanders (Hank’s latest mini model), as well as regular Enclave military personnel

my theory is that Barbara Howard is dead and that Janey left cryo chamber long ago and that she is now leading the Enclave in the Rockies as Madam President of the USA

and that Janey is in her 60s or 70s

[mystic plaza]

But why are we treating throw away lines as heavy canon implications? I guess is my question. They can be, sometimes, if they're often explored more which has us go back and be like - "Oh so that's what he meant when he said that." But there are cases in TV media where it's not always the case.

[dawn iris]

this would be a brutal twist on Ghoul's (Cooper's) mission

hoping to find and save his daughter only to find that it is fully evil older woman leading the Enclave in the Rockies and possibly Midwest

[obtuse niche]

NCR secundus seems probable for the current (very limited) information we have rn

[dawn iris]

also, child actors get visibly older faster, that girl that is portraying Janey is getting older

[bitter raft]

I Assumed the Coronado brotherhood was from Colorado lmao

Then I googled Coronado

[surreal sierra]

The NCR was already stretched thin before Shady Sands got nuked.

Why do people think that the NCR not only bounced back from their capital being nuked, but also became strong enough to restart the Mojave Campaign?

[mystic plaza]

The NCR didn't want the Mojave campaign to begin with, though tbf - I've said this since S1, SS was no longer their Capital by the time it was bombed. It was nuked after the NCR changed capital cities. Shady Sands was the former Capital, of the NCR when it blew up.

[bitter raft]

I loved that the NCR showed up but I HATE Amazon for spoiling it for me

[pulsar lintel]

We don’t know what that sign is implying exactly. Shady Sands still could have been the capital, with capitals existing in the other states.

[mystic plaza]

? the sign is in the flashback

[pulsar lintel]

I know

[mystic plaza]

It says the first NCR capital, no?

[pulsar lintel]

Yes. Shady Sands was the first NCR state, so if new capitals were made with every newly acquired states then that may be what the sign entails

We just don’t know.

[bitter raft]

So couple questions, why did Hank marry another woman in the vault and what happened to house when Lucy and Maximus arrive

[mystic plaza]

I actually disagree, I feel like if it was referring to the state, it would say of the state capital, instead of the NCR as a whole.

[mystic plaza]

Because he wanted to? I imagine it would've been weird if his marriage with Steph was public, cause it's apparent they both pushed it to the back - and kept up a façade to maintain their cover. Steph married someone, too

[bitter raft]

And Lucy is not Steph’s daughter?

[obtuse niche]

No

[mystic plaza]

no

[obtuse niche]

We've seen Lucy's mom

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, Rose is Lucy's mother. Steph was thawed out after Lucy was born.

[obtuse niche]

Makes sense given the whole breeding program thing - and Hank was unthawed years before Steph

[mystic plaza]

Yeah

[pulsar lintel]

I don’t see the conflict tbh. In this scenario Shady would still be the NCR’s first capital, and the fact that it isn’t mentioned as the state capital of the Boneyards doesn’t really stick out as odd to me. The sign already brings up a lot of unanswered questions.

[bitter raft]

Also did her mother take her to the surface too? For some reason I reminder something like that but I don’t think it happened because of what we see in season 2

[pulsar lintel]

She did yeah

[obtuse niche]

It did happen per season 1

[mystic plaza]

It doesn't? It makes it pretty clear. Shady Sands was the first Capital of the NCR - not the state, not the territory. Of the New California Republic as a whole.

[bitter raft]

How doesn’t Lucy remember that?

[pulsar lintel]

I already explained that it doesn’t make it clear. Nothing is explicit here.

[bitter raft]

Is mr house even real?

[pulsar lintel]

It being the first capital is not contradicted if, well, other capitals were created later lol. The moniker stands.

[obtuse niche]

She was very young at the time (+ presumably some gaslighting on Hank's part)

[mystic plaza]

We'll just agree to disagree on that, then. lol cause it seems pretty clear to me. If they wanted to refer to the state or mention others, they would, but they don't.

[mystic plaza]

This is more likely the case.

[obtuse niche]

Yeah he was just hiding from Lucy and maximus

How did Lucy and maximus get back inside the lucky 38 anyways

[mystic plaza]

Coop probably left it open.

[obtuse niche]

Hmm

[bitter raft]

Is house even alive now?

[obtuse niche]

Yeah although seemingly in some vaguely defined digital format

[bitter raft]

He put his mind on the blockchain

[obtuse niche]

That point in particular is confusing because he must've already been on the system before he had cold fusion

[bitter raft]

I’m guessing his body was a temporary thing, and he was always going to die eventually

[obtuse niche]

Going off NV he intended it to be rather quite permanent

[mystic plaza]

But he was alive long enough to figure out the Enclave put the Deathclaws in the strip, so idk - they imply that he was 'offline' more than dead. He was aware of what was going on - but just couldn't act, is the more likely scenario imho.

[trail cove]

The NCR that showed up in Freeside is an isolated battalion that has apparently been in the Mojave for close to 20 years. There is no confirmation what happened to the rest of the NCR after Shady Sands, but as I've argued against many people thousands of times, nuking Shady Sands /=/ killing the entire NCR in one blow

The NCR is most likely weakened and closed off its borders, retreating to the North

[obtuse niche]

Him being 'offline' would suggest that either his power demands weren't as massive as it seems or that he's still in his physical format

[surreal sierra]

Is the NCR "reinforcements" the only evidence that suggests the NCR bounced back from Shady Sands getting nuked?

[pulsar lintel]

The reinforcements probably were just a more organized version of Moldaver’s militia. I doubt they had contact with anyone in Cali.

Given they were even further east than Rodriguez

[mystic plaza]

he still had the generators in the basement - those can power up the lucky 38, and most of the strip iirc.
But all he'd need is to keep the lucky 38 on.

[bitter raft]

Won’t they just be the NCR that the 3 lone soldiers mentioned?

[pulsar lintel]

The NCR sending reinforcements to the Mojave but not to help Moldaver would be nonsensical anyways

[obtuse niche]

We've seen a lot of the south and know there are brotherhood strongholds across California
We don't know the situation in the northern regions (Fallout 2 map) but that's the only place the NCR could be

[surreal sierra]

"isolated battalion that has apparently been in the Mojave for close to 20 years."

That's just absurd.

[mystic plaza]

There's no evidence that's shown she even contacted the NCR - or they even acknowledged or agreed with her. The NCR with her are ragtags, not official or active duty soldiers it looked like.

[obtuse niche]

Although those were supposed to be offline for other reasons (and if he could do that it'd raise the question of why he needed cold fusion in the first place)

[mystic plaza]

Cold fusion would just make it more permanent and it's a stronger energy source that would essentially grant him quite massive capabilities and power output, I imagine. It's miracle tech, at the end of the day - what he can do with it, is probably a lot grander in scale.

[pulsar lintel]

I probably wouldn’t judge what’s in the show based off of intuition.

It can be dumb but that doesn’t mean it isn’t what’s going on, as intended by the writers

[trail cove]

Well, that's the explanation for you. Rodrigez couldn't have possibly been trying to imply she was sitting on the same hill for 15 years while being aware of a battalion they were apparently seperated from without trying to reach them.

[obtuse niche]

So if he didn't need cold fusion why'd he go the physical route (assuming it's a different thing at least)

[obtuse niche]

They keep saying 20 years when the actual timeline is 13

[pulsar lintel]

The cold fusion was necessary to power the AI for whatever reason. The generator could handle everything else.

[mystic plaza]

He needed cold fusion to 'ascend' for a lack of a better word. It's what he wanted it for.

[pulsar lintel]

They keep fucking up the timeline lol. Over 20 years my ass.

[mystic plaza]

He just didn't need cold fusion to keep the lights and power on.

[obtuse niche]

Unless they were cut off before the NCR was fighting the legion at all it can't be 20

[trail cove]

I think they fucked up the timeline again, because over 20 years ago is 2277. Same one that they said was wrong, lmao.

[mystic plaza]

The 20 comes from Cooper, doesn't it? 13, is probably more accurate.

[obtuse niche]

But his apparent presence on the system before getting cold fusion would suggest he 'ascended' already

[trail cove]

So the fucking show apparently retconned a retcon that was meant to retcon a retcon.

[olive wadi]

It's a writing mistake Cooper was underground during that time he wouldn't have known

[mystic plaza]

No, i would argue the moment Cooper put it in, House immediately took advatnage of it and ascended.

[pulsar lintel]

He says over 20 years ago yes, and Rodriguez doesn’t say anything. Best defense for this is that everyone just lost track of time but I don’t think the scene was written with that much nuance in mind.

[trail cove]

Or someone on the writing team fucked up big time.

[olive wadi]

It's not that big of a mistake

[pulsar lintel]

It doesn’t really matter yeah, just funny to make fun of

[obtuse niche]

Maybe although there's not much of a visual indication to that effect (and I kind of wonder why he'd do that so quickly)

[mystic plaza]

Agreed, Cooper is the only person who says 20, and he was buried atp so it's - unreliable, but idk.

[pulsar lintel]

I think it’s indicative of people not keeping their shit together behind the scenes

[mystic plaza]

There doesn't need to be a visual indication? It's mostly background stuff. I imagine.

[olive wadi]

Todd already did say when asked to clarify that Shady Sands was nuked after the events of New Vegas

[obtuse niche]

He says 2 decades, I think Lucy says 25 when she's talking to brain controlled biff

[trail cove]

OMG this gets even funnier

[obtuse niche]

Yeah it'd just be helpful because we're in pretty deep speculation territory

[olive wadi]

You can explain it away as a bad game of telephone

[trail cove]

"20 years" "No, 23 years" "NO, it's 25 years", lmao.

[obtuse niche]

The actual timeline is 13 in spite of it all so

[olive wadi]

Really all that's important is that it happens after New Vegas and before the show

The odds are pretty high they made it 20 years to add up with Maximus actor age

[mystic plaza]

Not necessarily.
At least to me, it's pretty logical that House, being who he is, would take advantage the moment he gets the miracle tech he's been wanting. Which he flat out tells Cooper, too. Why he didn't help him, Cooper didn't deliver the Diode. House was expecting it, so House operated on contingencies until he got the Diode.

And it's why he helps Cooper immediately, as well.

[obtuse niche]

They made both characters in the early 20s lol

[olive wadi]

Lucy and Maximus are like 25+

[pulsar lintel]

House presumably giving over the prototype chip before he received the diode is kinda… weird.

[surreal sierra]

How would having an isolated battalion (somehow going under the radar for ~13 years) pop up out of nowhere for a deus ex machina contribute to the overall story?

[pulsar lintel]

Probably my biggest problem with the whole exchange plotline so far. Doesn’t add up.

[mystic plaza]

THAT I agree is weird.

[obtuse niche]

I would assume he'd deal with the active person in his penthouse first and become robogod when he wasn't entertaining someone

[mystic plaza]

It shoulda been an immediate hand-off, House knows better.

[olive wadi]

House didn't care about mind control

[pulsar lintel]

That’s not the point

[mystic plaza]

No but he did about Cold fusion.

[pulsar lintel]

He needs to ensure the exchange goes through without a hitch

[mystic plaza]

The fact that House didn't secure Cold Fusion in the initial hand off is weird af.

[olive wadi]

Yes he was willing to give them a free sample to help push the deal

[obtuse niche]

Important to note that they're only under the radar as far as the 3 guys on the hill and the protagonists are aware which is way more plausible than nobody knowing anything about them

[pulsar lintel]

It wasn’t a sample, it allows them to reverse engineer the technology

[olive wadi]

Remember they didn't get the completed mind control they're still working on that 200 years later

[pulsar lintel]

Which is what they did. House didn’t have complete mind control either.

[olive wadi]

They got it working on animals but not people until Hank fixed it

[pulsar lintel]

His version of the chip still had the head popping issue.

If someone resists hard enough they go kaboom

[olive wadi]

House probably did but they only had the sample

[mystic plaza]

I disagree, especially because it's probably more background related stuff than more physical apparent stuff. There's nothing that says he can't do both, or one before the other. Especially if we're taking into consideration he's been wanting this for hundreds of years.

[pulsar lintel]

It was enough for the Enclave to feel satisfied with the deal, so House still fucked himself lol

[olive wadi]

You have to remember that House didn't know Vault tech was compromised

He thought everything was going smoothly until it didn't (something House famously known for)

[pulsar lintel]

He did, just not the exact party. He also can’t rule out basic corporate espionage. He’s meant to be a highly intelligent man, this is basic stuff to account for.

[obtuse niche]

It's hard to say, although he'd need to be alive to do the transfer

[olive wadi]

I mean the same thing happened with the platinum chip

[pulsar lintel]

No

The chip would have been delivered to him it was just manufactured too late

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, that's kind of. . . my whole issue. It hints at him being alive but limited. Because how else would he be gathering knowledge within the 15 year time gap from the show, and games.

[olive wadi]

Post war with the couriers

[pulsar lintel]

I mean in regard to that it was the best he could do lol. He tried to shake off Benny by having dummy drops.

[obtuse niche]

This entire digital ascension thing is a headache to try and make sense of huh

[mystic plaza]

Kind of but im going off of the show's implication and the Showrunners, the verbage they use in the interview is super weird. lol

[olive wadi]

Mfw House probably should have spent a fortune on a milita to retrieve the chip instead of trying to mind game it

[mystic plaza]

That's why i say 'ascension' for lack of better word cause that is what the showrunners implied in the interview.

[pulsar lintel]

He wanted to avoid a militia because that would make it an obvious target for the Families, the Legion, and the NCR

[olive wadi]

The point is that House overlooked things

[pulsar lintel]

All who wanted him dead and out of power

[pulsar lintel]

Not really. The point is that he’s dealt a bad hand.

[obtuse niche]

The enclave was probably well aware of Cooper being a volatile variable at this point

[olive wadi]

As for the deal he made a bad deal and got burned

[pulsar lintel]

Which makes him uncharacteristically stupid yes

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, im more impressed House caught onto it so quick, quick enough for Cooper and Barb to fake their divorce.

[olive wadi]

He's not an infallable character

[obtuse niche]

House didn't know the game had changed until coop was in Vegas, the enclave has significantly more intelligence assets

[pulsar lintel]

That’s entirely on him for accepting the terms

[pulsar lintel]

I expect intelligent people to act intelligently, unless given good reason for otherwise

[olive wadi]

He had no idea the enclave was even a thing and even less that his deal with vault tech would be compromised

[pulsar lintel]

He knew about the secret third party

[obtuse niche]

The deal was probably only made because the enclave knew they were getting cold fusion anyways

[pulsar lintel]

He didn’t know who it was, but he knew it existed and influenced Vault Tec

[olive wadi]

He knew there was another player at the table but he didn't know it was the government lol

He didn't know it influenced vault tech

[pulsar lintel]

Okay, that still puts someone above Vault Tec in power who would logically know about the deal?

[olive wadi]

How

[obtuse niche]

That's probably why he was trading tech with them

[pulsar lintel]

? He explicitly says no one at the meeting would drop the bombs. That means he’d have to conclude they’re tied to Vault Tec.

[olive wadi]

No? He knew Vault tech didn't have the guts to do it

[pulsar lintel]

Someone is telling them to push out the proposal

Even though they won’t do it. What do you think this entails.

[obtuse niche]

He says that in the context of 'these people are all too far up their own asses to do anything', he only had passing hints at another player being at the table

[olive wadi]

He's talking outside of that not just in that meeting

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, that's the way I read it, "These idiots couldn't orchestrate it if they wanted to." That's why he honed in on someone else.

[olive wadi]

He knew the apocalypse was happening and he crossed out vault tech from the list of possible suspects

[pulsar lintel]

I don’t understand how you guys think he can’t make a connection between secret organization plotting the end of the world and an organization who is putting out their proposals.

[obtuse niche]

Funnily those companies all probably do have the resources if they wanted to

[olive wadi]

Because his actions directly show that?

[obtuse niche]

He can make the connection if he knows about the existence of one

[olive wadi]

His goal was just to get cold fusion he didn't really care how

[obtuse niche]

But as far as we see in the show all he knows is that something is fishy with the situation

[pulsar lintel]

He already knows they exist, and they are higher up the ladder than VT. This is my point.

[mystic plaza]

The resources for sure, idk if they have the.. organizational capabilities that the Enclave did pre-war, acting as our illustrious deepstate. lol Cause 2 of the companies at that table are compromised. I think Big MT was the only one that wasn't - and obviously RobCo was not.

[olive wadi]

Even giving up mind control was no matter because he knew the world would end

[pulsar lintel]

But anyways, none of this really addresses why House would make such a stupid deal. It’s just beating around the bush.

[obtuse niche]

Big mountain certainly could've been they just might not have done anything of interest

[olive wadi]

Clearly he didn't anticipate someone stealing it

[obtuse niche]

Do you mean insofar as it's extremely one sided in his favor

[mystic plaza]

They could've been but i think the. . . characters at play there somewhat had ulterior motives. lol

[pulsar lintel]

… but he should have, and fuck he literally knew one person for sure was going to try and kill him over it! Again we’re talking about a character who is known for precautions and planning.

[olive wadi]

Yeah he gets unlimited energy for the cost of something worthless to him

[pulsar lintel]

No, I mean handing over his product before receiving the diode.

[olive wadi]

He was pushing to get the deal done

[pulsar lintel]

Any sane person would organize a exchange on equal grounds

[olive wadi]

House sane?

[obtuse niche]

I mean he was ultimately right to do so

The only reason he didn't get cold fusion is because coop blew through like an act of God

[pulsar lintel]

He wasn’t. He gave up his one asset with nothing in return. That inherently makes him vulnerable lol.

[queen swift]

Please do not remove the moustache

[olive wadi]

It was a business move to push vault tech to agree to the deal and a random act he didn't anticipate ruined everything

[obtuse niche]

House's body double also talks about it like the deal was somehow already established before barb met with him

[olive wadi]

That's why when Cooper went to Vegas it messed up his calculations

[pulsar lintel]

You guys keep appealing to the randomness of the act like House didn’t anticipate Cooper trying to kill him and the idea of corporate espionage being a very basic concept.

[obtuse niche]

He was right to do so in that assuming normalized circumstances he would've gotten cold fusion very shortly afterwards

[pulsar lintel]

The circumstances he created rely on that assumption, which is again illogical for him given everything we know

[obtuse niche]

Unfortunately you cannot predict things you don't know anything about

[pulsar lintel]

Like again, an equal exchange at the same time is just much safer. For obvious reasons.

[olive wadi]

The circumstances is that House is insane predicting the end of the world and doing anything he can to get what he wants (cold fusion) he is not thinking logically

[pulsar lintel]

See the above comment

[olive wadi]

We see him going on a crazy rant about Cooper he is a crackpot

[pulsar lintel]

Lol

[obtuse niche]

House dealing with VT isn't really some mobster deal where one party can back out whenever, it's very likely he had taken precautions to see the deal through

[queen swift]

This made me chuckle

[pulsar lintel]

But he didn’t, given he had literally no recourse to that exact thing happening and had given up his only valuable asset to do so lol

[olive wadi]

There were probably big legal repercussions that we don't see

[pulsar lintel]

legal repercussions
Fallout

[obtuse niche]

That exact thing didn't happen, vault tec didn't back out or fail to hold up its side of the bargain

[olive wadi]

Mind control wasn't valuable to House aside from being the tool to get cold fusion

And cold fusion was gone so losing mind control meant nothing

[pulsar lintel]

You’re still not getting it. How many times do I have to explain that unknown third party interfering with his deal that entails the exchange of the most priceless artifact on the planet isn’t an insane concept?

[olive wadi]

House was preparing for the end of the world he wasn't concerned about bad business proposals in a doomed world

[pulsar lintel]

A third party he KNEW ABOUT

[obtuse niche]

It kind of is actually

[pulsar lintel]

Bring Soll back bruh this is insane

[olive wadi]

He didn't know the extent of their reach

[obtuse niche]

Again, he didn't know about it, we know he didn't know about it, and regardless it wasn't vault tec's overlord swooping in that fucked up the deal, it was a rogue actor getting it for them that did

[pulsar lintel]

It was literally Vault Tec’s overlord

[olive wadi]

He didn't know

[obtuse niche]

Cooper is the reason the enclave got it ultimately

[olive wadi]

For all he knew it could have been China

All we know is that House figures out Cooper stole it after he already gave it to the President

[marsh burrow]

What is the enclave doing with their cold fusion

[pulsar lintel]

I feel like if I can’t hammer in the concept of giving up your valuable asset to company that you know has some level of involvement with a unknown party and is notoriously corrupt and evil without any strong protections against sabotage you’re not bright, I can’t say anything further.

[obtuse niche]

Nothing seemingly

[olive wadi]

He didn't care about vault tech

He didn't care about mind control

[pulsar lintel]

…

[obtuse niche]

He probably did have protections against the deal falling through, those protections were just probably reliant on, y'know, vault tec still having the technology

[olive wadi]

It was solely means to an end for him

[pulsar lintel]

The mind control application he didn’t care about, he cared about its value as trading commodity lol

[surreal halo]

Vault Tec still ended up with a product that was apparently an equal trade for the diode despite House not getting this irreplaceable diode. What does the unpredicted power of the Enclave have to do with this? What, did they spook him? Strongarm him?

[olive wadi]

Yes to get COLD FUSION

He wasn't concerned about money atp

[pulsar lintel]

Yes, which he gave up and lost with nothing in return because he didn’t conceptualize something as simple as a hand off. Guys, this is not complex. Why is this a struggle.

[olive wadi]

At this point in time Houses only goal was preparing for the apocalypse

[obtuse niche]

They could've done a hand-off although the difference would've been marginal, he'd just walk away with the mind control tech instead of empty handed

[olive wadi]

You are acting like this is some plot breaking hole and it's not. House wanted cold fusion and he was willing to give mind control (even as early sample) just to convince Vault tech to part with unlimited energy

[pulsar lintel]

?????

The difference is he would have the diode in his hands

[obtuse niche]

I wouldn't think so seeing as barb didn't procure cold fusion for the Vegas trip until after he contacted her

And coop would've interfered in a hand-off if they scheduled one for a later date

[pulsar lintel]

At the time of the meeting at HQ no. This is where you bring up the idea and organize a date for a proper handoff of the devices.

[olive wadi]

The most important thing to remember is that House was desperate

Even if they did a handoff it wouldn't matter because Cooper would have stolen it

[obtuse niche]

Okay so now instead of a scheduled delivery it's a scheduled exchange which has the same vulnerabilities as the delivery for transporting cold fusion

[pulsar lintel]

And the inevitability of Coop interfering is irrelevant anyways, especially because it can be relatively easily avoided if House didn’t just… leave him to his own devices

[olive wadi]

The deal wasn't until the next day regardless

[obtuse niche]

How exactly would house stop him from going with his wife to Vegas

[pulsar lintel]

Not really no. If the diode is lost House still has a monopoly on mind control, meaning he has leverage still lol.

[olive wadi]

House couldn't interfere he wouldn't have been aloud to get it until the following day

[obtuse niche]

Leverage for what?

Vault tec wouldn't have the diode any more

[olive wadi]

What we don't see is the legal hell that Vault tech went through after they couldn't follow through with cold fusion

And it just isn't important to the plot of the show

[pulsar lintel]

Leverage to organize another deal with, well anyone? Once it’s out of his hands it has lost its value. Like again there is the very pressing issue of VT just not handing it over and making up a scenario to justify why, which is essentially what happens lmao.

[surreal halo]

Vault Tec owns the company that developed cold fusion and has a monopoly on it, as Moldaver implies. They can presumably make more, eventually

[pulsar lintel]

It’s important for House’s characterization. Smart people doing stupid things isn’t good writing.

[obtuse niche]

He only values it insofar as he values its bargaining potential, probably specifically in regards to cold fusion
I doubt he'd just say fuck it and sell it to someone else for something else if the situation changed

[olive wadi]

He didn't care about deals with anyone else his sole purpose ATP was getting cold fusion

[pulsar lintel]

He can just ask for another cold fusion device. Or sell it off for something else that’s valuable.

[olive wadi]

And there was only one cold fusion

[obtuse niche]

The prevailing idea seems to be that the diode is for some reason one of a kind

[pulsar lintel]

The show never really clearly communicates this and we have no idea if House knows this either

[olive wadi]

There was nothing else of value to House

[obtuse niche]

Maybe vault tec gutted the companies and mothballed all their research, it's unclear

[olive wadi]

They probably only had enough resources for a single diode

I doubt it was something they made overnight

[surreal halo]

Recall that Moldaver's plan was to kill House, just stealing the diode wouldn't cut it

[obtuse niche]

There's a possibility, it could be that it would take them longer than a year and house probably just doesn't think he has the time to wait out redevelopment

[pulsar lintel]

You guys are bogging yourself down with frivolous stuff. Like again, the core concept of an equal hand off is inherently much smarter, and House not doing this fucked him over. This is why it’s silly.

[olive wadi]

It's silly trying to find logic from an illogical person

[pulsar lintel]

Okay lol

[obtuse niche]

A hand off would result in one of two situations

1. It goes fine and he gets his tech
2. It doesn't go fine and he keeps his tech he doesn't want or have any other use for

[olive wadi]

House was crazy and only wanted cold fusion by any means

[pulsar lintel]

Yes, the man known for cunning and precautions and plots is actually an idiot who isn’t good at these things. This is great writing, be proud.

[bitter raft]

So what happened to Hank?

[olive wadi]

This is a very weird hill to die on

[pulsar lintel]

Would be an interesting subversion if this was at all the intent!

[obtuse niche]

Assuming situation #2 happens, he'd only have a reason to hold onto the tech if vault tec could requisition another cold fusion diode

[pulsar lintel]

Yes, which is a better position to be in. He is not told they couldn’t.

[olive wadi]

No House was not a perfect character who never made mistakes

[obtuse niche]

He probably knows they can't

[pulsar lintel]

That’s a assumption, one that the show doesn’t seem to back either

[olive wadi]

The show makes it extremely clear that pre war be was not clear headed

[obtuse niche]

It is an assumption yes but it's not an outlandish one to say

There are valid logical explanations for him not caring to do a handoff is my point

[pulsar lintel]

I also outlined why the hand off further secured his claim on the diode, as it rules out some possible scenarios from happening. This is what House is about ultimately. You’re not able to avoid this.

[pulsar lintel]

You haven’t presented any, just argued that it wouldn’t have mattered. Which isn’t really the case.

[obtuse niche]

Is this the situation you're talking about

[olive wadi]

House gave away mind control because he didn't care about it

If anything securing his end of the deal early is the logical thing to do

[pulsar lintel]

Yes. Intentional sabotage, which is not uncommon given Fallout is a cyberpunk-esque hellscape.

[bitter raft]

Maybe it was a personal request from Hank that he makes it, or the enclave

[obtuse niche]

Okay so let's put it like this
With a delivery if things go well he gets what he wants, if it doesn't go well he doesn't get what he wants
With a handoff if things go well he gets what he wants and if things don't go well he has something he doesn't care about

[olive wadi]

If he gives mind control early he doesn't have to worry about anyone stealing it before he has to give it to vault tech

There is no issues here

[pulsar lintel]

Yeah again, the mind control gives him options. Either with VT or elsewhere.

[obtuse niche]

From there there are two situations, if he still had the mind control tech he'd probably try to organize another deal (if possible which is not a given) or if he didn't have cold fusion he'd probably try some other form of legal or bureaucratic pressure to get what he wants

[olive wadi]

It doesn't give him options because to house there are no other options it's either he gets cold fusion or it's over

[obtuse niche]

Another deal risks further turbulence especially with how one sided it is in his favor

[olive wadi]

House knows that cold fusion is the one thing he desperately needs for his plans

[obtuse niche]

Well. The two thing

[olive wadi]

Platinum chip he was working on

[obtuse niche]

The one thing he didn't have secured

[lilac raven]

House isn't perfect, I mean look at how he crashed out towards Cooper.

[viral violet]

Guys.... She's ...... CANADIAN!!!!

[lilac raven]

guy with a higher charisma stat could've easily take it slow.

[olive wadi]

House couldn't even figure out that the government was evil

[surreal halo]

It only really makes sense if House lets the theft happen to see what pieces on the board move

[pulsar lintel]

Lol. It gives him the option to pressure VT into giving cold fusion later. Or hell, he attempts to pressure whatever third party to hand it over. This gives him options he doesn’t have previously.

[lilac raven]

but no, instead he jumps the gun, and kind of panics.

[olive wadi]

Later? There wasn't going to be a later

[lilac raven]

and sure, his assumption was correct, he still could've played that out MUCH better.

[obtuse niche]

Him losing nothing doesn't give him the option to pressure them because if he doesn't lose anything he has no argument for them having an obligation to him

[pulsar lintel]

You guys really haven’t convincingly established why there would be no later

[obtuse niche]

It gives him the option to re-negotiate which is worse

[olive wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout-bombing-fallout-bomb-drop-fallout-i-think-i've-seen-this-film-before-fallout-bombs-gif-4446508594514132081

[queen swift]

This sentence is so vague I have to disagree. Smart people can do stupid stuff, it just matters if it makes sense to them.

[obtuse niche]

I mean we're in mid 2077 at this point he's probably working on a 4-5 month timeline

[pulsar lintel]

Why would House believe they care about obligations? It sounds like you’re using the framework of how companies typically work and not how they realistically work in Fallout.

Vault Tec would not give a fuck

[lilac raven]

Enclave gets their cold fusion back, effectively stealing the mind control device and not losing anything else, which means they have no competition on the board in terms of controlling the area. House is forced to rely on the tube and his defense systems, which couldn't operate at full power because the platinum chip was a day late.

[obtuse niche]

Because they're still a company of bureaucrats and he has legal/public avenues to pressuring them as such

[lilac raven]

no doubt, they took the opportunity to shaft House as hard as they could to try to get him off the playing field.

[olive wadi]

House being a day late how out of character he's supposed to be super smart never make mistakes

[obtuse niche]

Compare that to the alternative situation where it's reliant on vault tec still being interested in the deal after somehow fucking up the first hand-off

[surreal halo]

The world is going to end, they can just delay

[lilac raven]

I'm curious if there was other players on the board....Sinclair from the Sierra Madre I think is one, with Big Mt. using them as a test bed for the cloud.

[pulsar lintel]

This completely undermines your defense about the timetable then, especially if you’re going to argue that he would simply have never considered intentional sabotage on VT’s part. If he keeps the mind control he can just… organize another deal.

[lilac raven]

he doesn't make it. I think he was a prime example as another 'player on the board' removed.

[dawn iris]

that's all fine and nice folks, but another settlement needs your help, I marked their location on your map

[pulsar lintel]

If the world is going to end WHY would VT care

[olive wadi]

There won't be anymore deals because the bombs

[obtuse niche]

Nah the Madre was the cloud test bed, I don't think we know what the big mt vaults did besides the obvious one

[pulsar lintel]

This was certainly my point! Good job being facetious though.

[lilac raven]

I think it's simpel that the Enclave saw house as no longer needing his services once they got the Automated Man tech.

[obtuse niche]

Organizing another deal is a worse position to be in than having an actual debt owed if you're desperately trying to acquire something

[obtuse niche]

Vault tec still hasn't taken any steps towards actually ending the world as house is seemingly well aware of and unlike house they don't have a predictive model giving them a timeline

[queen swift]

I cannot tell if this is satire

[pulsar lintel]

It isn’t no, not really. VT wouldn’t sabotage the deal because they want the mind control chip. If it was stolen by a third party then VT can’t do anything and as you’ve already admitted they also can’t supply a new diode. This gives House no options.

[obtuse niche]

The mind control chip is rather obviously significantly less valuable than the diode, not just to house but in general

Opening negotiations again would let vault tec expand the terms of the deal or perhaps just back out entirely without any further methods for house to counter them with

[queen swift]

If we look at the real world, people who make accurate predictions still mess up on one or two parts of said predictions. Robert House being smart will not change that. Even the smartest person would make a mistake, as it is in human nature. We make mistakes, some more than others. I would be surprised if House was perfect in everything or even perfect in one aspect. Humans are not perfect. I’m just spouting shit don’t listen to me, just saying my opinion at this point. 😭

[pulsar lintel]

I wouldn’t say that’s necessarily true, given how versatile mind control tech is, but regardless the deal House made is contingent on the idea that they both agree that a valuable exchange is to be made and that they value each others tech more than their own.

Yeah and again, VT would not care. They’re the most powerful company in America and have the rest of the mega corps on board with self inflicted nuclear annihilation. They can simply end the world whenever they want. Or the third party can, which I will reiterate, House is aware is involved. Legality is an afterthought at this point.

[obtuse niche]

Vault tec can't simply end the world whenever they want

And the third party is still practically a ghost as far as house is aware

[pulsar lintel]

I mean, we’re either arguing that House is not seriously considering the third party here and that he believes the mega corps have more power than in reality, or that he knows the third party is dictating VT and using the rest of them like puppets (which is what the show establishes but is also being argued against here for some reason).

[obtuse niche]

I don't see the relevance of the deal being made on the assumption of mutual gain to this specific question

[pulsar lintel]

Which both scenarios make the plan as is, well, bad

[obtuse niche]

He cannot really consider them and even if he is considering them that still leaves him in a very weak position either way

[pulsar lintel]

Either VT has leverage or there is an unknown party behind everything that he can’t take action against if they say, fuck him over.

[bitter raft]

So is something going to happen that gives Lucy and maximus a reason to go to Colorado or are they going to stay in new vegas and the season will have two separate stories going on

[pulsar lintel]

Which is again, why a hand off is important instead of leaving himself vulnerable

[grizzled garden]

I think they won't go to colorado so early

[pulsar lintel]

Why can’t he????

[olive wadi]

House will likely use them and send them to Colorado to deal with Enclave

[obtuse niche]

If vault tec loses cold fusion before a hand-off he has something he doesn't want that vault tec does want while vault tec no longer has anything he wants, if he doesn't have it then he ends up with nothing - this is the bottom line regardless of third parties

Either way he has no further method to securing cold fusion

[obtuse niche]

He has no information on them or what they're actually doing, he does not know the scale or nature of their grasp and involvement

[queen swift]

I would be interested to see House and The Ghoul interacting again in season 3.

[pulsar lintel]

He knows they’re above Vault Tec and influencing their actions. This is enough to plan around and make precautions. This is also integral to my point about why House should be more cautious, given this opens up a great many possibilities for ways he can be subverted. I’m not going to go in circles on this any further though I think it’s quite clear we’re all unreachable on this topic.

[bitter raft]

Obviously the people with brain chips will be a problem at some point maybe that’s how it will lead to the enclave, or maybe the enclave will come looking for the brain chips in the vault

[obtuse niche]

I don't think it's established anywhere that he knows they're above vault tec

[grizzled garden]

it would suck not seeing the aftermath of the strip battle

[bitter raft]

Wait I know what’s going to happen

[obtuse niche]

That aside, what possible contingencies could he formulate? If the unknown overlord intervenes and takes cold fusion out of play there's nothing he can do about that regardless

[grizzled garden]

we're still yet to get confirmation of the NCRs state

[bitter raft]

The enclave wants cold fusion back, and they’ll have to go through house to get it

[obtuse niche]

The enclave has had ample opportunity to get cold fusion back

[grizzled garden]

maybe

if the enclave really cared about the cold fusion, they would send their own people to get it

[obtuse niche]

There's a pretty good chance that they either have it where they want it/don't care where it goes at this point

Why that would be the case remains to be seen though

[bitter raft]

Why did the enclave scientist try to stop Wilzig again? I forgot what happened

[obtuse niche]

Uh the enclave scientist just discovered the dog and the situation deteriorated from there

It is really odd that they haven't come after it yet given that wilzig would've been really easy to chase down early on and they could probably even get it out of California if need be

[mystic plaza]

Dogmeat attacked

[grizzled garden]

they were willing to give it to their scientist, unguarded as well

[mystic plaza]

If I had to guess it was probably because Wilzig injected cold fusion into his head and it was missing when he walked in

[obtuse niche]

He kinda already had it

I guess he was one of the people working on whatever they were doing with it

[mystic plaza]

I imagine there was a team on it

[obtuse niche]

The other possibility is that he just made it himself but that wouldn't make sense at this point

[pulsar lintel]

It’s a logical deduction. He refers to them as being “the house”, and believes they’re plotting to drop the bombs, which is VT’s stated agenda. There’s obvious collusion there, at least if we’re taking the position of what an intelligent person would be thinking in the same scenario. Though people here seem to not think House capable of that.

Yeah I mean I have nothing left to say about this. Either it’s taken away regardless and House still has his valuable commodity, or it doesn’t because House made that less likely by averting certain outcomes with a more logical plan and he gets what he wants. It’s a bad plan and makes House look dumb. It’s a dumb plotpoint lol. Also to respond to what you asked earlier by House stopping Coop, I’d just… keep him supervised? Doesn’t seem like rocket science to me.

[bitter raft]

How did Wilzig make it from the rockies to Philly

[grizzled garden]

did moldaver contact wilzig before the war to bring her the cold fusion?

[grizzled garden]

he rode on dogmeats back

[mystic plaza]

After the fact, most likely.

[bitter raft]

Probably yeah since he was supposed to meet her

Question is how, I don’t think they’ll ever explain it I think we’re just supposed to assume they got in contact with each other at some point

[mystic plaza]

Probably after Hank blew up SS - because remember Moldaver and Rose, Moldaver says it was Rose's dream or something to that effect.

[obtuse niche]

He just doesn't really care about his valuable commodity though, so him accepting the potential loss there isn't that unbelievable
Keeping coop supervised is only really an option once he's in Vegas and even then is pretty difficult to do when he's just doing normal inconspicuous things

[bitter raft]

Did we find out why the date of the end of the world changes when coop does stuff?

[obtuse niche]

Ran in a straight line through all of Nevada of course

[obtuse niche]

It seems to be that his intervention let the enclave secure cold fusion earlier and/or let them fuck over house

It could be any number of butterfly effects though, only time will tell

[mystic plaza]

He's an unknown variable. Anything Coop did or does isn't in House's calculations, so it could've been anything.

[bitter raft]

Did the bombs drop on his daughter’s birthday or was that someone else’s? Also we STILL have no idea how he lost his daughter in the first place

[obtuse niche]

Someone else's

[pulsar lintel]

There’s no given reason for him to accept the loss though lol, hence why it’s stupid.

Coop is in Vegas the entire episode. Keeping an eye on him and intervening when he’s obviously doing something obviously suspicious like, idk, escorting the man with the diode to his room and putting himself in there for an extended period of time would probably be a good opportunity to intervene. I think security should be capable of that.

[obtuse niche]

A lack of reason to not accept the potential loss is arguably sufficient in this case given the overall insignificance of the technology in house's perspective

I doubt house knows about how VT was storing the diode although he probably could've anticipated a need to keep an eye on coop

[mystic plaza]

The bombs dropped on October 2077

[surreal halo]

The mind control chips were evidently the only bargaining chips for cold fusion he ever had, given that he did not acquire cold fusion. The only way it becomes an acceptable loss is if he accepts losing the possibility of a functioning digital backup of himself

[pulsar lintel]

The mind control chip ends up hurting him down the line anyways, so it’s not really convincing to argue that it has no relevance once taken off of his hands even if we don’t account for simple trading value. He doesn’t personally care about using the tech but he does care about what it can bring to him.

Idk Hank was clearly the guy. He had a briefcase handcuffed to his wrist.

[obtuse niche]

The issue is less assets and more the rarity of cold fusion itself

[mystic plaza]

It also seems that his contingency then was the Platinum chip, too.

[obtuse niche]

Idk if that's the case given that the platinum chip would've been vital to his survival either way

[bitter raft]

What even was the platinum chip

[obtuse niche]

Systems upgrade, all of his software for everything really

[pulsar lintel]

Yeah the platinum chip software upgrade was necessary for the missile defense system and securitrons upgrade. Extra power wouldn’t have helped.

[obtuse niche]

Hurting him 200 years later?

[bitter raft]

So it was basically a computer chip

[mystic plaza]

A computer chip that would've saved Vegas, yes. Due to House's sophisticated software and defense systems. It also allowed him to do things faster and have further reach iirc.

[obtuse niche]

Probably the most advanced computer chip robco ever produced

[pulsar lintel]

Yeah. He is planning this far ahead, it’s integral to his gameplan. He also has no insurances that the chips wouldn’t be used against him earlier, assuming that VT/third party didn’t just improve them.

[obtuse niche]

I mean he's not really planning 200 years ahead, at least not at any point we ever see

Even in NV the majority of his plans are very short term and get significantly more vague looking past the immediate future

[bitter raft]

What even was house’s gameplan for the future

[obtuse niche]

Uh initially it was to protect Vegas and keep civilization or whatever going as the region's savior, by NV he just wants to reignite industry (+ assert control) in Vegas and will go from there

[bitter raft]

He did say he wanted to save mankind didn’t he?

[obtuse niche]

Something like that

[bitter raft]

But from what? Or whom

[pulsar lintel]

He doesn’t outline specifics because he can’t know the specifics, but the idea of building a successful nation out of Vegas once another nation rises is something he presumably had in mind all this time.

[obtuse niche]

Probably the nuclear war and subsequent nuclear Holocaust

[obtuse niche]

Yeah probably, he just can't really predict specific things coming into/out of play even a few years down the line

[mystic plaza]

Themselves. Realistically House is not incorrect in the world beyond almost nigh-fucked beyond repair. Most of the Earth will never be the same, or recoverable. While certain civilizations can survive. Mankind can no longer advance and thrive as they used to.

Unless a huge amount of terraforming GECKs is found, and can be used in the worst areas around the world, it's a super fat chance of healthy recovery.

[pulsar lintel]

Sure, but I think the point here is that he knows VT are going to be around post war so he just ends up giving them a leg up over him with nothing in return.

But also, apologies for any aggression. Was frustrated with the Senate lol.

[obtuse niche]

Maybe, suppose there's probably not a good reason for him to intentionally do it - was probably just an oversight

Sounds like the deal was already well underway by the time he contacts barb strangely

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, it was. He acts like Barb is late on the memo.

[obtuse niche]

Moldaver also already knew about it didn't she

[mystic plaza]

Well, his body double.

[obtuse niche]

Might have the timeline mixed up but

[mystic plaza]

She knew about Barb going to the meeting, I believe. Idk if she mentioned specifically for Cold fusion.

[obtuse niche]

I think she did but got the details of house's end of the deal wrong

[pulsar lintel]

The extent of Barb’s role in VT doings is still kinda vague. She isn’t the boss or anything.

[obtuse niche]

I think she might be the highest public role in California

Maybe there's some supermanager cabal remotely instructing the different branches

[meager elm]

She is vault tek

But the enclave is everything

Like dude even the president

[obtuse niche]

The president being enclave is like, the most obvious twist ever

[meager elm]

I know and he was always enclave in the games too

[obtuse niche]

Even more obvious than 'vault tec dropped the bombs' would be if there weren't references to China

[obtuse niche]

Albeit in the games it's because the president is the leader of the enclave (at least as far as we know)

[meager elm]

I dont like the enclave dropping the bombs really, I liked the thought of capitalism being Americas sole concern so much that they didnt care about the looming threat of nuclear attack. It was poetic

[obtuse niche]

I think they could do the enclave bit well if they go down a pretty specific route, but we'll have to see for that

[meager elm]

The vault tec dropping the bombs theory is old as HELL

[surreal halo]

It's also always been a stupid one

[meager elm]

Guess they took it and ran in the show

[surreal sierra]

I just love how they revived the Enclave after they've been curbstomped since Fallout 2.

Imo, i'm getting tired of Bathesda making completely new factions for every single Fallout game they make and only reusing the BoS. So this is pretty refereshing.

[obtuse niche]

They've reused the enclave a fair bit too

Almost as much as the BoS really

[surreal sierra]

Yeah, but the other reason why I love the Enclave's revival is because they changed their goals. Still evil, but different and unique.

[meager elm]

Yea they've went all out with enclave

The cc and 76 now the show

[pulsar lintel]

There’s the board above her and then the Enclave above them

Barb isn’t part of the board iirc, just a important executive.

[surreal sierra]

(I hope the writers for Fallout 5 were in the Amazon Writers Room taking notes)

Now, back on topic. When does this happen? I don't remember this.

[violet elm]

how long can an NCR president can serve?

[surreal halo]

Post-credits scene

[pulsar lintel]

I believe it’s implied to be 5 years per term, but you can run as many times as you want

[violet elm]

hmmm

now I'm starting to understand what Caesar said about Hereditary dictatorship

[pulsar lintel]

It’s one of his sillier points tbh but I get what he’s trying to get at fundamentally

NCR was united behind a strong leader, then became dissolute once that leadership died

Tandi had a son but apparently he had no political aspirations

[surreal sierra]

Just saw it, thanks!

Doesn't the East Coast BoS still have Liberty Prime?

Also, I hope to god Dane becomes more of a prominent character and doesn't remain as some token queer character.

[trail cove]

https://klipy.com/gifs/palpatine-star-wars-5

Yesssssssssssss, betray the NCR, betray the NCR......

[violet elm]

Not saying the Legion is any better

[trail cove]

No, I meant

Join us.

[pale ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/enclave-fallout-propaganda-76-gif-1832661275352466615

[abstract scarab]

I would join the enclave but the voices tell me to dig deeper

[sacred idol]

The music in The Ghoul's cryopod scene was so good. Ramin Djawadi nailed the soundtrack this season.

[fallow gyro]

True

[dawn iris]

https://youtu.be/pRbIw5GopJY?si=gB6fuxI6vzhaNhRQ

We want X-02 power armor in Season 3 or we revolt

[pulsar lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/smh-shake-head-no-disagree-gif-17744233

[unkempt hamlet]

"The show is too goofy"
The games:

[crude jolt]

My own enclave pip boy, just gotta make a few updates

[heady jasper]

Yea but that's 76, we don't really count that one for being serious

[fallow gyro]

fallouts always been goofy as fuck

I dont think many play the games for a serious vibe anyhow thats a stalker or metro thing

[solid grail]

And honestly, there is a time and place for serious shit, but why should the Wasteland always be a dark and nihilistic dump that hates anything light hearted and funny?

[trail cove]

Implying that Stalker and Metro aren't also goofy sometimes

[heady jasper]

Metro not really at all tbh

I guess maybe in exodus with the hookah

And that dictator guy

[trail cove]

STALKER however definetly has some goofy moments like you describe. The Bandit theme is literally a meme for a reason

[pulsar lintel]

I think most people involved in this conversation don’t really understand that there’s a spectrum of humor that can impact the tone to varying levels. Like yeah, Fallout has goofiness, but it plays itself fairly straight dramatically in the main quest and in many of the side quests and world building elements. At least in games like 1, 3, and NV. Which is probably the group of fans who are complaining about the show.

[fallow gyro]

lol

[pulsar lintel]

Ok

I don’t particularly care about the show’s prevalence of humor overall, although I think certain episodes can spend too much time on it, but its primary issue is that it is not funny.

Which is generally the problem with Fallout humor but is especially bad here.

[meager elm]

i really didnt like how they just ignored the guy trying to help maximus

[pulsar lintel]

And it is interesting how when the show gets seriously dramatic (pre war flashbacks), it’s significantly more enjoyable!

Almost like inserting irony and reference humor for the sake of it, even if it’s in line with whatever conception of Fallout you have in your head, may not actually have been the best direction.

I’ve seen humor executed quite well in proper drama television as well so I think that’s less the problem and more how it’s implemented. I genuinely don’t believe the vast majority of fans complaining about the humor want the show to be grimdark.

[meager elm]

like its funny the first time when they act like theyre going to do something then they dont and have a funny one liner but it gets old

[pulsar lintel]

Yup

I think Fallout tonally is at its best when it’s absurdist but not in the ironic, self referential way. That’s lame and deserves to be derided.

The show teeters on the edge in that regard and paired with the humor usually being not good it’s just not that appealing.

[heady jasper]

So did all of Hanks humans die when Lucy killed Diane

[pulsar lintel]

No

The chips work independently, she’s just required to produce new chips with the personality matrix

Which is a bit weird but whatever, you can give the show some leeway on the mechanics of its tech.

[heady jasper]

Oh yea u right I remember the ones being programmed

[surreal sierra]

Oh yeah, what happend with Hank at the very end right when he pressed that button?

Was he chipped or something?

[pulsar lintel]

Yeah, Lucy put the chip in him.

[surreal sierra]

But what happened? Did he activate the new chips? with one of them being put in his head by Lucy?

[pulsar lintel]

Yeah he presumably activated all of the miniaturized chips when he clicked the button, basically waking up an army of sleeper agents.

[surreal sierra]

Gee, I wonder who those could be... glances at NCR "reinforcements"

[pulsar lintel]

[surreal sierra]

[trail cove]

[solid grail]

God, I hope not; it’d just pointlessly undercut a hype moment from S2 merely to be all ‘haha, you big stoopid for thinking the NCR was actually back’.

[carmine quiver]

that'd be colossally stupid 😭

[bitter raft]

You’re not Hank’s wife bro

[bitter raft]

Plot twist: it’s the enclave

[carmine quiver]

wouldn't even make sense because:

one

• Hank did manage to capture that one Ranger, but he doesn't specify any other NCR members amongst the chipped.
  -# yes; there very well could've been more. afaik it wasn't explicitly stated if there were more NCR soldiers. you can most certainly make an argument about it being implicitly stated/implied, of course :D

two

• Diane was killed. her brain destroyed; there is no brain to run the chip mainframe.
• the chipped require someone's brain to program their new personality. without it, we see with Hank they just slump and remain somewhat immobilised, as well as having absolutely no personality outside of monotone, basic polite speech - lobotomised to the strongest effect 😭

three

• if those NCR soldiers had been chipped, they wouldn't have just marched in all fine and dandy. they very likely wouldn't even be able to physically function with such rigour, let alone mentally.

if they go this route, i'm throwing my tv into a ravine 😭

[bitter raft]

Although how did Hank chip the first soldier in the vault? Maybe he did it to all 3

[pulsar lintel]

Would be based

[carmine quiver]

we saw how he uses the very unrealistic method of wacking someone on the back of the head with a blunt object, immediately knocking them out.

after successfully chipping the chicken fucker, i'm sure he continued to use such methods. but i am also certain he would've used other chipped to help him hold other kidnapped wastelanders down (like he did to Lucy) to chip them, and/or have them knock-out and kidnap other victims.

the Ranger guy getting separated from the other NCR soldier… i don't know precisely how that could've occurred. the guy, obviously, had a more than a few screws loose, so who knows 😭

he started small, then went after the bigger targets.

[trail cove]

It'd be hilariously bad writing

I mean sure, aformentioned NCR battalion randomly appearing in Freeside is certainly strange, but having them apparently be an ENTIRE MIND CONTROLLED GROUP is just the kind of shit that'd come out of the worst fanfiction

[fickle jacinth]

not really - it symbolises hope for a better tomorrow in the end.

We know that the 3 soldiers that cooper hung out with still held on to hope about reinforcements, we know that the NCR temporarily pulled back, them establishing contact and sending out a small force makes sense.

Its meant to underline that there is still hope in the wasteland, odds are they are building the NCR up to be more relevant in season 3 with the enclave getting a bit more focus.

odds are itll end up with a teamup between the ncr, super mutants, ghouls, V33 inhabitants, etc, against hank and the enclave in the end

legion might play some part too, assuming they dont get wiped out again in S3

[trail cove]

I don't think you read the full message

I was referring to the idea that the NCR battalion was the mind controlled spies Hank was talking about

[fickle jacinth]

i did, i responded to the first part of it, that the ncr batallion randomly appearing in freeside is strange, it isnt

[carmine quiver]

oh there were more out there controlled by the Enclave?

the obvious shit my oblivious ass misses 😭

[trail cove]

It sort of is in a sense, imo. Think about it. 3 soldiers were sitting on a hill for 20 years. The reinforcements they were talking about are either the battalion they were seperated from or genuine, honest to god fresh soldiers from the actual NCR. Then the second they leave the area, they get into contact with the unit they struggled to find, and then they unilateraly decide to march on Vegas to claim it.

[carmine quiver]

yeah they kinda pulled that battalion out of their ass but idk

[trail cove]

I'm also overlooking the fact there's something like 500 NCR soldiers walking around the wasteland for 15 years, no explanation to that.

[carmine quiver]

also that

[carmine quiver]

but they were pretty scrambled after Shady Sands, but it had been over twenty-years, so like wtf 😭

[fickle jacinth]

its meant to symbolise hope.
Cooper gave up on that bit, Lucy did not, the NCR arriving underlines that having hope for a better future is a good thing.

Assuming they arent all going to end up dying or are already mind controlled

[carmine quiver]

yeah… but where did they come from and how come they just left three dudes on a hill for so long

[fickle jacinth]

some other NCR settlement?

Im sure you'll find out in S3, lol

[carmine quiver]

probably discreet reconnaissance or something

[trail cove]

Watch them not explain it whatsoever

I'm all in, betting all my money on that

[carmine quiver]

hopefully they will, if not, then we shall pray ig 😭

[fickle jacinth]

doubt that bit, theyve done a good job sofar even if s2 was a bit rushed and it had some issues

like coop and lucy's relationship never really being explored was a huge downside, especially that they never spoke about hank and the enclave, etc.

lucy came across as a complete asshole against the ghoul, even if it was played for laughs

[trail cove]

Please, Todd Howard, enough with the vague shit, and have some exposition happen, please Todd

[fickle jacinth]

theyve moved the story forward, paid homage to NV, underlined that the legion is a joke, underlined that the NCR fell back and something went wrong, introduced super mutants and the enclave

so stuff is set up for S3, etc

[trail cove]

Something I noticed about this show is apparently it wants to create new plot lines seperated from the actual games, yet bring up things that would require you to not just play the Fallout games, but understand the lore

[carmine quiver]

yeah, the character arcs and relationship building is rather shallow - that's one of my mine complaints. 😭

mainly Maximus, as he's just… kinda the same as he's always been?? he hasn't really fundamentally changed, and neither has Lucy. they're both pretty much the same as they were in the beginning. Cooper is the only one who's had some development, mainly due to his relationship with Lucy and having an actual lead on his family's whereabouts.

eight episodes per season ain't enough to flesh out characters

[fickle jacinth]

not really, it introduces new viewers to the world while paying homage to the games at the same time, the story should be stand alone and not be too heavily reliant upon previous medias, etc.

[trail cove]

I know people have already been telling me that it's impossible to flesh out some of the factions in the show, but at least, at the barest possible minimum, hint that the Legion isn't a generic raider group, to give them a bit of nuance. Same with the NCR, I'm not just talking about a quick line about "NCR not bad, Legion bad bad", I'm talking about showing the real problems that plagued the NCR.

[dense wharf]

the Legion is presented as more than just a raider group though

although both NCR and Legion suffer from a severe lack of screen time

[carmine quiver]

i could talk all day about how much interesting character development we could've had with Lucy and Cooper's partnership. about how Maximus needed a more fleshed out story to showcase his realisation that the Brotherhood is a cult, and his father figure is a lil bitch, and that him blindly following someone just because they fill that father/mentor/parental role for him isn't a good idea - that he needs to start finding his own ideologies and morals (which they did as best they could, but it still feels like they've left him at this point where he hasn't learned anything, and will likely just fall into the NCR or be manipulated by House because they'll fill that hole for him).

[fickle jacinth]

depends - Maximus has gone from a blind BoS kid to someone who knows the BoS isnt the good guys, thats why he was donning the NCR armor in the final episode

[carmine quiver]

him being in the NCR is the best outcome for him now - but he'll still be susceptible to corruption.

[fickle jacinth]

Lucy went from a naive vaulted to someone who understands that the wasteland requires some more hands on approach with lead aswell

cooper is shown to not be an emotionless hardass mercenary but someone whos carrying alot of pain and is putting on a brave face to survive in the wasteland

so all in all the characters have evolved, the problem is that they havent really had that close knit feeling with eachother yet.

[carmine quiver]

im a sucker for details. that's probably why i feel like it's not enough 😭

[fickle jacinth]

there is alot of tiny details, especially when it comes to cooper though

[carmine quiver]

oh his character i feel quite content with - that's mainly because he's the one who's been around since before the war, so we see a lot of who he once was, what he went through pre-war, and who he is now post-war (what we currently know).

i'm just itching for more with Lucy and Max's character progression and introspection because i, subjectively, don't feel like we got enough - but, i'm sure S3 will fill that in :D

[queen swift]

I’m not an insane sucker for details but whatever proves me ship correct /j
Anyways, I’m definitely with you for hope that we get more with Lucy and Maximus’s character progression in season 3. I want more of Cooper and House’s dynamic too, it’s genuinely pretty interesting to watch.

[bitter raft]

So does house just not have any securitrons left?

[heady walrus]

curious what hes even capable of rn in the show lol

[bitter raft]

Surely he can manufacture stuff right?

[heady walrus]

with what

[bitter raft]

Well all the stuff he’s had came from somewhere

[heady walrus]

i assumed it was pre war robots

[bitter raft]

Why else would there be an army of securitrons under the fort

[heady walrus]

in the show we know he has securitrons pre bombs too

[bitter raft]

I doubt he planned to do anything post war without some way to make stuff he needs

[full carbon]

Also. holy fuck, the NCR still exists

And the Enclave is still a threat..'

[copper ginkgo]

If you're really Enclave you should check your terminal and join us

[copper ginkgo]

You should also join

[carmine quiver]

Mr. Krabs looking for his next SpongeBob 😭

[mystic plaza]

Nah Metro is just as goofy. Anya calling her Husband a rabbit, fucking Bourbon, "Some call these demons, I call them bitches." Majority of the silly ass dialogue between soldiers. Especially if you wait to kill them, and their done speaking, etc etc. Metro's dialogue is hella goofy. Doubly so in Exodus btw cause the Wastelanders are just as unhinged.

[pearl ferry]

Exactly, it's supposed to be silly sometimes

People forget that

I personally enjoy the sudden blowing up of someone, or the cheesy vomit inducing bad jokes, it's what makes fallout fallout

[mystic plaza]

It's typical Bethesda humor, Elder Scrolls is the same. Just tailored towards a more Medieval Fantasy setting.

[compact bramble]

Rome Alone. lmao

[pearl ferry]

The under 3 intelligence in NV always comes to mind, when the courier talks with the people in helios one (?)

[bitter raft]

This is not new news

[obtuse niche]

Still unclear

What we've seen and been told would suggest that the group in episode 8 is another cut-off and isolated unit

[mystic plaza]

I highly doubt it, their equipment is in a whole different league compared to Rodriguez's rangers, and Moldaver's. They show zero signs of being a cut off group.

[obtuse niche]

It seems unlikely that they've managed to keep logistics going given their apparent absence from major locations and the gains made by groups like the Khans along the long 15(?)

Rodriguez was also pretty well equipped, that seems to just be a recurring idea with the NCR

[mystic plaza]

First two pictures are what accurate, separate and cut-off groups look like.

the third picture is what organized well kept equipment is. There's just no way.

[mystic plaza]

No, even then her equipment looked different compared to what she wears in the finale.

They gave her new gear. lol

[obtuse niche]

The main difference I'm seeing here seems to be the uniforms themselves

[mystic plaza]

No it's not uniforms, it's the actual gear itself. Moldaver and Rodriguez's group prior - had make-shift gear, almost raider like. Instead of proper military equipment. It's make-shift, rustic, slapstick, literally thrown together for protection. Well kept equipment is a significant sign of whether or not someone is cut off, which Rodriguez AND Moldaver were before.

but the moment Rodriguez meets with the new battalion she's given new gear, and weaponry. Also the weaponry the NCR had is all heavier rifles and marksman equipment. Which again, way different than what the ragtags use.

If the Battalion was isolated and cut off, they would not have access, or the ability to maintain their equipment for 13 years, for it to look almost 1:1 to what it does in the shady sands flashback.

There's just no feasible way, if they're isolated. It's why the battalion being isolated makes no sense. They show zero signs in their equipment, or weaponry of that fact.

[obtuse niche]

Then the question is how they're somehow running logistics all the way to vault city and why has nobody mentioned it at any point

But that aside Rodriguez in the initial sequence just looks more unkempt and weathered (light damage to chestpiece, unbuttoned coat)

[mystic plaza]

It's probably because the battalion is being supplied by a nearby base - or close enough to where a supply line can be maintained. It's again why I said the battalion being in the Mojave makes less sense, because they wouldn't be able to maintain any level of supplies being delivered into the Mojave for 13 years. With the BOS, Khans, and Legion still active.

[random bramble]

I’m honestly wondering if the NCR won the dam and pushed out to somewhere like Saint George and started to form a new frontier

[obtuse niche]

There's a chance there are other supply caches like the one the ghoul found

[mystic plaza]

it's possible

[random bramble]

The legion is far more common in Arizona then Utah

So they could have been in the “east”

[obtuse niche]

Regarding the California people, their equipment is generally more combat armor/battle armor-y than the Mojave force's traditional, late Mojave campaign equipment

They don't have complete sets but they do also have the set in that second image which seems to be completely new to the franchise

[random bramble]

The moldaver squad always seemed far from official. Stoped following uniform regulations years ago

[mystic plaza]

This ^
And when we meet the initial rangers, they are the same. All their gear plates fell off, and they replaced it with leather and metal.

They've also ditched service rifles in the finale, which is super interesting.

[obtuse niche]

Biff replaced one shoulder pad, his other one just looks older and the other one isn't using a set which had pauldrons at all

[mystic plaza]

the other ranger was similar, had metal wrist plates, and no shoulder pads.

[obtuse niche]

Yeah the other ranger is the one using the original base game ranger set which doesn't have shoulder pads at all

I just realized they completely redesigned the pauldrons for the show

[mystic plaza]

Also the Ranger on the right, had complete different boots, too, they're wrapped in barbed wire.

[obtuse niche]

The metal wrist plates may or may not just be a normal part of the original set although those definitely look different

[mystic plaza]

they look different, i'd wager if they were the original wrist plates - they'd be smoother. But that's just me.

He's missing one, anyway, too. lol

[obtuse niche]

It seems like the three had some field modifications to their equipment but overall the differences are pretty light

More wear and tear than anything, which makes sense because they're a step beyond just being isolated from command

[random bramble]

Anyone else super disappointed we didn’t get any more moldaver outside of the diner scene?

Like she is the biggest mystery of the show so far and we got two minutes total

[obtuse niche]

Yeah I hope we get more of her and whatever is going on with wilzig in season 3

Their plots are a lot more interesting to me than the main conspiracy plot

[random bramble]

My assumption is that the enclave kept their more useful pawns at the Vegas vault (Barb and Wilzig) and they were moved to the Colorado facility within the past 5 years or so

[obtuse niche]

Idk hard to make predictions for this stuff when so much is completely unclear

[random bramble]

Like moldaver still could be a stupidly convoluted enclave agent

[solid grail]

Exactly my line of thought, honestly.

[random bramble]

Not a huge fan of it but could be

[obtuse niche]

Maybe, although that would be a bit surprising given her final role

[random bramble]

It seems like cold fusion getting out was all part of the plan for the enclave

Distract the BOS by throwing a bone

[solid grail]

Especially since they didn't really care to pursue Wilzig all that much or even try to stop him beyond one turret that somehow missed at near point-blank range.

[random bramble]

For all we know moldaver was sent to fuck with Hank because he wasn’t following the plan

He got comfy just living with his family

[mystic plaza]

Sure, my point is the fact that the battalion doesn't have 13 years of wear and tear. The Rangers & Rodriguez did, and Moldaver's group was even worse off. The NCR in the finale, looks no different from the one we see in the Shady Sands flashback aside from mild scratches.

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, i thought we were gonna get more tbh.

[solid grail]

If anything, Maximus honestly might've fucked up their plans more than Wilzig; stealing the diode then getting House back online by plugging in said diode might've been a blow to their overall plans now that one of their bigger opps are kicking again.

[random bramble]

Has anyone done a breakdown to see if they reused actors or props here?

[mystic plaza]

Yeah the only weird group is why Moldaver starts a lowkey insurrection group? lol like it played no relevance outside of Cooper going to 1 meeting. I wondered if she used them.

[obtuse niche]

Most likely explanation is that they're sitting on camp mccarran or some other location with a stockpile of equipment sufficient to let them replace their stuff as needed

[mystic plaza]

That's also possible. They might use similar uniforms, but not weapons, the weapons are 100% not the same props.

[obtuse niche]

Albeit even then it would have to be one gigantic supply reserve

[solid grail]

Plot twist; what if her group went on to be at least part of the foundation of what later would become Shady Sands? Vault 15 was a diverse hodgepodge of ideologies, after all.

[random bramble]

I don’t think (also hope) moldaver is enclave it’s just she doesn’t make any sense

[random bramble]

Moldaver sold cold fusion for a vault?

[mystic plaza]

That's my point, it would have to be a hyper-unrealistic supply, which i don't think is the case.
Until I see the showrunners talk about it, or see more stuff next season, I'm convinced the battalion was in contact with NCR proper - I think Rodriguez and her Rangers were just cut off, but the battalion might not have been.

[obtuse niche]

I kinda assumed that's what happened tbh

[obtuse niche]

Contact and supplying would be two very different beasts to do

[random bramble]

Yeah they definitely reused the uniforms it’s just did they try to hide it or not

[mystic plaza]

That's also possible. IF we ever get a damned answer, lmfao.

[solid grail]

Heck, consider the fact that despite holding those meetings, Moldaver never got whacked/disappeared/suicided by the Enclave.

[obtuse niche]

Really hope we see the show's armor sets showing up ingame, moldaver's group has pretty awesome looking equipment

[obtuse niche]

She's a convenient agitator

[random bramble]

I miss the more 80s/90s level equipment

[mystic plaza]

there's some mods that let you get close but dunno. lol the riot ranger gear in-game for 76 is kinda mid.

[obtuse niche]

It also seems to be a different set compared to the show, looks a lot more like the NV riot gear

[random bramble]

I think people are giving the “setting up fallout 5” stuff too much credit

They are probably going to use like one faction and a few minor mentions of events (probably from the BOS)

[solid grail]

Outside of maybe setting up the Enclave being a major thing again for Fallout 5.

[random bramble]

Bethesda doesn’t double dip on locations often

It won’t be set in the same space, possibly the same general region

[obtuse niche]

Still hoping they put it in North California

[random bramble]

Playing pacific drive makes me want a PNW fallout

[solid grail]

Like, some shenanigan of theirs is something we'll either have to help or stop as part of the larger third war that'd be going on from Boston to the Hub.

[obtuse niche]

Huh?? War between Boston and the hub?

[solid grail]

No no, I mean the Enclave'd be causing havoc and the like across the continent.

[obtuse niche]

Ohh

[mystic plaza]

yeah the 76 set was mad years ago as a selling point for Fallout 1st.

[random bramble]

I would pay $200 for a special edition if we can not have the BOS in the next fallout

[obtuse niche]

Idk about that the enclave is still yet to actually do anything

[obtuse niche]

The power armor seems to be the only recent addition besides stuff they've added to fallout shelter

[solid grail]

True, for all we know Hank was talking out his ass for the most part.

[obtuse niche]

Grand canyon BoS 🦅 🔥 🤖

[solid grail]

Like, maybe the Enclave are still relevant, but not the endgame Crisis fellas seem to be hyping them up as.

[mystic plaza]

The PA & Legate Armor, yeah.

[obtuse niche]

Fallout shelter has added a bunch of sets from the show at least

[mystic plaza]

There's some datamined stuff suggesting we might get more stuff tomorrow but we'll see.

[obtuse niche]

We'll have to wait and see for them I suppose

[mystic plaza]

In light of the finale, i imagine they'll take the opportunity to sell some more stuff.

[obtuse niche]

Ooh that's gonna be exciting

[mystic plaza]

There's still the NCR Trooper outfits, and the black ranger reskin, and some NCR camp stuff.

[solid grail]

NCR trooper outfits sound like they'd sell like hotcakes.

[obtuse niche]

The enclave trooper outfit they've introduced in the show probably would too

[mystic plaza]

they're lowkey ripped from FNV with just 76 graphics, they looked great. pretty much a 1:1 copy.

let me see if i can find them again.
if it's not broke don't fix it, i suppose they came with the Dam War headgear, too.

[obtuse niche]

About the NCR's guns, do we have any shots of them in shady sands

It seems safe to assume that the NCR was using a wider variety of rifles than they do ingame but besides that when/where is unclear

[mystic plaza]

First pic is FNV, second pic is 76.

[obtuse niche]

They painted it green

[mystic plaza]

I can go look, the two scenes we see them have guns in, is the marching scene and the scene where they stayed with Maximus's dad. Which from what I recall the Ranger was the only one having heavy weaponry. The rest had smaller rifles and SMGs it looked like.

[mystic plaza]

Not green a bluish tint, i think - the atomic shop lighting is ass.

[random bramble]

Have they figured out flowing dusters yet?

Or are they still stuck to your legs and look dumb like in Nv

[mystic plaza]

One of them had a ruger mini, i think but it's hard to get a shot of it.

[obtuse niche]

Huh okay

[mystic plaza]

in 76? yeah, most robes, or dusters are flowing - idk if the Ranger ones are though. the cultist robes/coats do float and flow freely.

[obtuse niche]

So they're just completely disappearing the service rifle then

[random bramble]

The troops in shady sands were likely reserves with less premier weapons and the troops in Vegas were probably using whatever works at this point

[mystic plaza]

i have yet to see a single service rifle, yeah.
But when they arrive in freeside they're packing some heavy weaponry. AMRs, 308 rifles - they have a galil too, so it can be anywhere from 556, to 762 but idk.

[icy pagoda]

From the majority of what we've seen the NCR has been using whatever it can get it's hands on, maybe supposed to be pointing at the idea that their supply issues have gotten even worse. With the strip getting all fucked up, the gun runners could definitely be fucked

[lilac raven]

they no doubt wiped out the deathclaws with no casualties, especially with the higher caliber firearms and several AMRs.

[fossil flicker]

Courier? Finally my Platinum chip is coming.

[copper ginkgo]

That's good

[shrewd helm]

Cooper Howard glowing one

[trail cove]

Saw some tourist channel claim the Deathclaws on the Strip could be taken out by regular guns in a couple shots because...a Ranger with an AMR took it down

[shrewd helm]

Yes of course
Let's ignore the fact that AMR's use 50 calibre rounds iirc

[trail cove]

I say tourist bevause the guy clearly talks out of his ass the entire video, despite having clearly played New Vegas

So he should know what the AMR is

[shrewd helm]

Don't get me wrong if the people of freeside banded together and shot at the deathclaws they could maybe take one or two down?
At a very heavy casualty rate

Because they look to have maybe 556 ammo at the most and some shotguns

I do agree though the AMR is the most well known gun from New Vegas you kinda have to know what it is if you've played it

That and the Ranger Sequoia

[icy pagoda]

ew, it's one of those freaks calling people tourists, get out here with that gross behavior

[random star]

🤮

[honest marten]

Built different is what it is

[patent dagger]

Speculation part of the season 3s opener will see the tri vaults emptied by the enclave

Including steph

[obtuse niche]

Maybe, maybe not

Doubt bud was that in the loop with the enclave

[patent dagger]

So i don’t think the fev has ever been on site

[abstract scarab]

I think the enclave is going to go looking for them but only find super mutants. End of episode stinger is Chet frantically escaping the vault while everyone erupts into mutants

[patent dagger]

See i don’t think fev is one site and ever has been

[abstract scarab]

We don't know, there's a lot of the vaults we haven't seen. We haven't even explored most of 31.

[patent dagger]

Did note on my rewatch that 31 is bigger than i expected

But some part of me expects the tri vault dwellers on the train we keep seeing

[random bramble]

The vaults are huge and have many more dwellers then seen on screen

[mystic plaza]

I don't think the train is connected to the Wasteland, it's probably connected to a larger base.

[patent dagger]

I think they keep drawing attention to the train, oh it won’t go all the way to vault 32/33 more they will be moved to a base before it

[random bramble]

Wait what train?

[patent dagger]

The enclaves base has a train labeled live subjects

[mystic plaza]

The Enclave has an active train on base, and train tracks leaving the mountains.

It's used it transport live cargo, and supplies

[random bramble]

A this in season one we see it working?

[patent dagger]

No but the dead mutant on a gurney and labelling give us an idea what its for

[mystic plaza]

its kept in perfect shape and has 'live cargo on it'. And there are guards in front of it, we don't see it actually moving but we see the engine running cause it's steaming.

[random bramble]

My attention just never noticed this, is it from the episode wilzig escapes

[mystic plaza]

From both the wilzig episode and finale.

[patent dagger]

Yes and its present again when the eyebot gets the signal

[random bramble]

I’ll have to go back and look didn’t even notice this

[mystic plaza]

It's one of the reasons I kept saying the base Wilzig was from, wasn't small.

[patent dagger]

I also kinda hope we get a new design for none power armoured enclave soldiers

[abstract scarab]

Scout armor please

[abstract scarab]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/8/83/Urban_scout_armor_front.png/revision/latest?cb=20210523200238

[patent dagger]

Drop the mask and sure

[random bramble]

Very nice

[patent dagger]

For a secretive group the enclave love their logo

[mystic plaza]

Realistically, I think it's funny only most of the protagonists have seen it up close, with the exception of the NCR & BOS due to their conflicts with them. I'd say most, or the rest of the Wasteland are blissfully unaware. Lol

[abstract scarab]

The mask is genuinely awful and I don't understand it. Is it a visor and those are cameras? There's no way in hell a normal person can look through that.

[patent dagger]

But the rest of the look sure

[abstract scarab]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/5/54/F76_BoS_Infantry_Armor_(Mannequin).png/revision/latest?cb=20210407182808

The brotherhood recon armor is pre war and could probably be utilized by the Enclave, it's much more normal looking at least

[patent dagger]

What about enclave riot gear

[mystic plaza]

The Enclave skins for armors looked nice, plus some of the other Enclave gear they have in 76 is better.

[abstract scarab]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/5/54/FO76WL_Secret_Service_armor.png/revision/latest?cb=20200602154857

Secret Service armor has a more direct tie with the Enclave so that's also a possibility.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/b/bc/Atx_skin_armorskin_SecretService_Enclave_l.webp/revision/latest?cb=20230801110933

[compact bramble]

Dumbest thing I ever did was get the Secret Service jetpack mod, you kill yourself from fall damage CONSTANTLY especially using a Bloodied build.

[abstract scarab]

That's what bird bones or goat legs is for

[compact bramble]

Yeah even with that, still a nightmare. I have the jetpack on my PA too, was just saying it was a huge waste of gold bars

[random bramble]

Man 76 is so different now, I remember repeatedly farming mutations and curing them till I finally got a good combo then using starched genes

Before I knew about the enclave way

[compact bramble]

Oh yeah there were some that were downright required for Bloodied build

[obtuse niche]

Oh we did

[abstract scarab]

Oof. Yeah I just waited until I got to MODUS and bought the ones I wanted

[compact bramble]

But yeah you can just get the serums nowadays and people are usually fair with pricing then cause there are so many

[obtuse niche]

We've seen unarmored guards a few times, the interesting thing is that they haven't seemed to change the uniform for guards since the war

[compact bramble]

I used to give em away to newbs

[obtuse niche]

The pre war military police who escort Welch away from the lucky 38 are in enclave uniforms

[random bramble]

We’re serums day 1?

[abstract scarab]

I believe so

They're just absurdly expensive when buying from MODUS

[random bramble]

I think the enclave uses pre war uniforms not that the guards were supposed to be enclave

[obtuse niche]

Well yeah that should be the pretty self evident conclusion

[solid trout]

why do people say that Hank was the one who nuked shady sands? i mean he would have been still been in the vault, and unable to get the mind control chips, not to mention in modern day he had to calibrate them to actually control people. did he somehow escape vault 33, go to the control vault and get a chip to do testing, put it on some random guy, get a nuke, and then send him out, and not get caught, only to go back to vault 33 for another like 19 years? it just doesnt make any sense to me

my only guess is that its a plothole, or just bad writing

[random bramble]

He went to the surface to get his kids, It’s in season 1

Also it was 13 years not 19

And the chip clearly was just the prototype version from pre war, he is bleeding from his eyes

And he had the whole vault on lockdown so they didn’t notice he was missing

[solid trout]

fair enough

[abstract scarab]

Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter

[unkempt hamlet]

There's literally a scene in the first or second episode of this season where you see Shady Sands get nuked and the scene shifts to Hank reading a young Lucy a bedtime story in Vault 33 and it zooms in on his Pip Boy showing a nuke symbol and saying Nuclear Device Detonation Successful

[solid trout]

what if instead of Hank it was Spank and he was freaky

[trail cove]

I'm calling him a tourist because he's calling people who watch the show tourists

[meager elm]

https://tenor.com/view/18carat-run-bad-luck-truth-is-game-was-rigged-fallout-gif-14316707

[mystic plaza]

the loudest tend to be the most incorrect. Which i find utterly hilarious.

[full carbon]

Let me explain why I am stunned that the Enclave is a threat..

We saw them lose both Presidents and VPs

[odd saddle]

One enclave

[obtuse niche]

Mayhaps we are all tourists in this world

[obtuse niche]

Since they have a bunch of self sustaining isolated facilities across the US their continued existence is possible, albeit they should really be a bit of a splintered mess by now

[abstract scarab]

The president is a figurehead, the real danger is the amount of fanatic sleeper cells they have around the country

Even in FNV the remnants are disillusioned but still strong supporters of the Enclave. And that's after they've been in hiding for decades.

[obtuse niche]

Fallout 2 implies that the enclave at large did not fare well post war but implications don't get to set precedents typically

[abstract scarab]

Active cells not in California are probably doing even better, perhaps even growing in numbers

[obtuse niche]

I doubt they'd want to grow in numbers, after all their living conditions have pretty substantial limitations

[abstract scarab]

Thats true for the enclave in California, but then in 3 we see they already have the capability to continue military tech advancements and reactivate even more old world weaponry

[obtuse niche]

The enclave in 3 is a direct continuation of the enclave in 2 isn't it

[abstract scarab]

Like they did begin to manufacture APA Mk II and Mk III in the Capital after a full retreat from the west

[obtuse niche]

Mk II was on the west coast too

The big advancement really was just mk III and it's pretty surprising they managed to pull that off

I guess it doesn't really matter what 2 would indicate anyways, at least not any more

[abstract scarab]

I don't know if they're going to retcon it. In 3 the enclave is presented as the last remnants of the oil rig that escaped across the country. I think after 4 and 76 they did another soft retcon that established the wide range of safehouse bases across the country.

The Raven Rock garrison was already there, so it's unclear if they were the remnants of 2 or if they just had multiple outposts in the east coast that got recalled back to Raven Rock.

[pulsar lintel]

MK2 was created before the Oil Rig was destroyed but not mass produced until later

Hellfire was completed under Autumn though

[abstract scarab]

Yeah it's a timeline thing. The black devil armor in 3 is the same armor as the APA Mk II in 2, even though the Mk II in 2 is the same model as the Mk I. Which isn't the same design as enclave PA or Equalizer or black devil in later games

[obtuse niche]

The black devil one is fallout 4's creation right

[pulsar lintel]

I just assume the visual differences are soft retcons and not indicative of a completely new model. Like the MK2 in FO2 is intended to be the same as in FO3.

Just looks different because, well, FO2 didn’t have a new sprite for it and Bethesda wanted a different design.

[mystic plaza]

This is what people refuse to somewhat see. Every sect has an figurehead they view as absolute regardless.

[abstract scarab]

Yes, but it's also a better name for the specific art style of the 3 enclave armor. At some point there's so many numbers it loses meaning

It's like reading BattleTech where there's the Marauder, Marauder II, Marauder IIC, Marauder II C, and Marauder IIC 2. And they're all different vehicles.

[patent dagger]

Does the failure of getting cold fusion add context to how pissed house get not getting thechip

[copper ginkgo]

All of you NCR glazers can shut up.Legion is taking over

[sacred idol]

"Bigger role" doesn't equate to "Legion wins"

[pulsar lintel]

It does

[icy pagoda]

I don't know how I feel about this, I wasn't all that thrilled with his performance

[pulsar lintel]

Yeah his performance in the finale was especially bad to me

He sounds completely unenthused

Not really a strong leader for the Legion to rally behind at all, though I suppose their lack of options is enough to justify that

But still I do find it especially weird that they make him appear somewhat learned in history

[honest marten]

Yay, more slavery 😒

[copper ginkgo]

Get wrecked bub

[copper ginkgo]

Mhm

[copper ginkgo]

Rome Alone

[obtuse niche]

Where are the followers

[pulsar lintel]

Dead

[obtuse niche]

Give me the followers of the apocalypse Bethesda

[pulsar lintel]

Forgotten

[obtuse niche]

Probably lowkey

[pulsar lintel]

It’s interesting that there’s no hint of them ever or still existing in the Boneyards despite it being their home turf

I’d expect the Khans to be more amicable to them as well given their shared history

[obtuse niche]

On the bright side the boneyard is pretty large so theoretically they could just be elsewhere in the city
Then again that's probably cope

[mystic plaza]

Actual faction unification should be the Responders & Followers together.

[meager elm]

why can i not react?

[meager elm]

❤️

[trail cove]

Glorifying these muties is pointless, we'll kill them all anyways

Uh I mean—

FUCK YOU, WE HAVE NEW VEGAS TO OURSELVES

[compact bramble]

The only faction I wanna see on the Strip is a thousand Mk2 Securitrons obeying my every whim and command

But the world isn’t ready for my vision

[pearl ferry]

was there followers in washington or am i remembering it wrong

[pulsar lintel]

No

[pearl ferry]

oh I think I'm thinking about synths actually, the institute

its an interesting thought though, if two factions have to team up who would you pick?
personally I would put the institute and followers together

[mystic plaza]

no, there wasn't.

[mystic plaza]

Followers & the Responders would be the healthiest pick for the Wasteland. The Follower's knowledge and mentality, combined with the Responder's finesse and utility - being able to adapt and adjust as Wastelands evolve, while being smart enough to establish connections with cities.
The Responders would help the Followers establish in a bunch of places while also being equipped to deal with certain threats, and having the knowledge to create the inoculation so quickly.

Idk - if i had to pick two factions that could merge, it would be those two. I can't see a better pair, they align extremely well not only ideologically but they choose to help the wasteland, the Responders would immediately counter the Follower's lack of combat - with sub-groups like the Firebreathers, etc etc.

[copper ginkgo]

Ye

[patent dagger]

Problem is the more militaristic factions would pick fights

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, but the Responders are good at establishing relations, and pulling off deals. Surprisingly. I imagine if push came to shove, the Responders could negotiate a truce with other factions, and fight the adversary together. It's what I mean by the Responders would be able to fight or establish a more defensive approach to combat whereas the Followers are lacking in combat in general, since it's not their focus.

[pulsar lintel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/wi6BWUoQ9O

Neat map

[thick barn]

Is that HOI?

[pulsar lintel]

Think it’s just a fan map

I probably would distinguish territories and states in this map, and the area from Mojave outpost-strip being under the NCR is weird

Would have represented the Khans here but I guess we don’t have much info on them regardless

[abstract scarab]

The Responders are fairly pragmatic about violence as well. They aren't rollovers like the Followers, and utilize armed resistance against the various threats of the region.

[mystic plaza]

They'll negotiate before fighting, for sure. But I genuinely think that they'd pair well with the Followers. If they were to combine.

[abstract scarab]

They even have their own military wing being the Fire Breathers

I hope a future installment mentions them again, even if the region eventually dies in a second nuclear firestorm it would be nice to see the Responders survive to some degree in the wasteland.

[sacred idol]

Tried to make Norm and Claudia in Fallout 4

[pearl ferry]

the height is killing me

[abstract scarab]

The real slider in question is... 🤔 🤔🤔😉

[compact quail]

I do have to comment that, as a musing of film critique, as much nostalgia and appreciation as I have for The Enclave, their position in the show due to some of the major creative decisions undertaken with the plot is a bit awkward. As we know, in the games, the lore we have sort of implies that the nuclear holocaust wasn't a carefully planned event, nobody knew exactly when it's gonna happen and canonically the Enclave itself seems to genuinely blame China for doing it, or even if they launched first, it was with geopolitical intent.

Secondly, functional cryo-chambers or any 'flawless' life extension technology like that doesn't exist other than a cutting-edge experiment in Fallout 4 that scientists were still trying to understand the side-effects of, and most factions either rely on much more macabre means ( Big MT, Robo-Brains, House ) to survive into the future or just births new generations like The Institute and Enclave does.

As cool as they are, The Enclave viewed through an impartial lens are actually a very simplistic concept and a product of their time in games from 20+ years ago, which by now are an established trope in fiction - They're the American Deep State/Shadow Government cabal out to, well, control the world but in a patriotic spirit. Their role, and motivation in the games is pretty straightforward - Because their subsidiary Vault-Tec doesn't really survive other than whoever is an Enclave plant themselves, they represent the ultimate vestige of the 'old world' - the embodiment of all the shitty megalomaniacs who led us to where we are.

As far as they're concerned, they also didn't nuke America of their own volition, so their casus belli is pretty simple too - they want to reconquer the place with American purebloods and Make America Great Again at everyone's expense basically.

The show complicated their niche - Because initially we had a bunch of frozen vault-tec execs to fill in the 'old world vestige' archetype, although I guess recently they did eliminate a lot of them ( Hank, 31 Vaulties, etc ) - maybe for exactly this reason. And Vault-Tec was pitched as the 'evil conspiracy string puller' to viewers too. And now here comes this new faction which is also now filled with a bunch of frozen people remnants from the old world but they 'pull the string behind vault-tec and house which you thought were pulling the strings'.

You have to think about this as a non-gamer for a second, imagine you don't know anything about and don't have excitement for the Enclave. Most non-gamer reactions I saw seemed to be underwhelmed- "Okay so I thought vault-tec/House were the big evil greedy capitalists doing the experiments and making kooky plans for a new world, but actually it's those shadow government scientists guys who are manipulating them in turn". It comes off as a bit of an outdated camp movie cliche of "the bad guys behind the bad guys behind the bad guys behind the bad guys" without much purpose and the fact that it's "DA GOVERNMENT!" further reinforces the trope element, without adding anything that makes them unique in the post-apocalyptic landscape.

Some people who think everything is always perfect might hate hearing it, but it's definitely an understandable sentiment from a non-gamer perspective especially and as a film narrative critique. There's no denying The Enclave is sitting at a much weirder spot with the show's development than they ever did as the classic 'Big Bad Pre-War Guys' of Fallout 2 and 3 when it was all out in the open and only them without any cryo shenanigans.

I'm curious to see where the series takes them to make them distinct. Like are they still just up to their old tricks in the Wasteland? How come oil rig and raven rock never had cryo preservation if Wilzig got cryo preserved, and what are those pre-war enclave guys from the cryo chambers gonna do? Hank said the surface is the experiment, which was never the case for the games Enclave, to them the surface was just a mess to clean up.

So yeah they'll definitely have to find some new angles to explore.

[mortal swift]

https://x.com/slippityslapity/status/2020762373922107480 this is way better than the origina lversion tbh the fo4 theme in that scene was stupid the NV theme fits way better

can i get a mcslip? (@slippityslapity)

@Tunnelsnakefool Quick edit of this scene I threw together. Kinda epic.

▶ Play video

X · Feb 9, 2026, 7:31 AM

[compact quail]

#1447296686111068221 message

Like from a franchise fan point of view their presence is taken for granted, they're there because they are important canon, they have to be there. From an artistic film-making perspective though, you typically want to convey new frameworks and ideas to the viewer when you bring in new characters or factions, and after building up to a 'secret base full of conspiratorial pre-war people' in Season 1 with Vault 31, and then for half of Season 2 with Robert House's backstory, doing it again with the President and Wilzig and Colorado base feels like a 'been there, done that' situation.

So for sure they're gonna have to invent new revelations, schemes and agendas that the Enclave in Fallout 2 and 3's time didn't really have in order to make it worthwhile to viewers

[feral harness]

I kind of have a theory of something that might of happened to the ghouls family. I was thinking that what if they also turned into ghouls or left the cyro chambers a long time ago but that kind of depends on how long ago the postcard was placed because it could have been like a few years after the bomb drop or hank could of let them out and they dropped the postcard there.

[full carbon]

FOR THE REPUBLIC

[trail cove]

https://klipy.com/gifs/ncr-veteran-ranger

[novel pulsar]

LONG LIVE THE NEW CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC

[silent mountain]

MEMEEEEE

[bleak moth]

@fossil flickersorry dweller, no memes allowed

[fossil flicker]

Vault tec is silencin me in 2026💔

Cant wait for Colorado

[copper ginkgo]

LONG LIVE THE LEGION

[copper ginkgo]

My pfp tough

[marsh loom]

Huh you think that adding the F4 CC content to the main game is kinda retconning the games to show the Enclave is still around

[deep geyser]

Which one are you

Legion or enclave

[random bramble]

If any “retcon” happened it happened with 76 long before CC

But 2/3 never made it explicitly clear that there was no more enclave anywhere

Fnv made it clear that the east coast enclavethought there were more active cells around

[pastel dock]

“The bigger they are…
…The harder they fall!”
Fallout 3 and 4 achievements reference.
But yeah, Legion ded. Rest in Piss, Red Salad Man, you won’t be missed.

[pulsar lintel]

I miss him

[obtuse niche]

No

[novel pulsar]

Long live yes man

[copper ginkgo]

ENCLAVE ofc

[copper ginkgo]

Erm

[jagged wing]

So it was confirmed that mr house cooper meets in the final episode is just an ai copy of him, and the real mr house died during the events of fallout new vegas

[mystic plaza]

No there was no confirmation and we won't get one. Unfortunately. His comment about being targeted makes it seem like multiple people tried to kill him, or at least assassinate him. There's no real indication that it was specifically the Courier. Plus if it was important, Cooper wouldn't have stopped him from speaking about it - it comes across more like a nod to the community to those who killed him, maybe.

[random bramble]

No confirmation but it seems heavily implied since he literally says that he was dead

[jagged wing]

I still believe that fotv house is just an ai with the og memories

[mystic plaza]

Could be, we probably will never know.

[grizzled garden]

this is basically confirmation that house isn't alive alive

[jagged wing]

Exactly what I am thinking, just because an ai has the memories of someone doesn't make them alive

An ai can't replicate feelings and experiences a human has

[random bramble]

House is more the a standard ai

He needed cold fusion to run it. Not even Zax computers need that level of power

He is probably simulating individual neurons and chemical reactions perfectly

[jagged wing]

Stil ai house is just a damn machine which you can shut off anytime

[grizzled garden]

also seems like the NCR are back as an actual faction and it's not just the company at Vegas

[random bramble]

Idk how to tell you this but your brain can be shut off at any moment also

His can just turn back on

[mystic plaza]

Yeah, like I said the interesting bit is that while house was "off" / "dead" He was retaining information and still able to figure out what happened on the Strip and who caused it. Plus it's probably just as easy for him to play possum.

[random bramble]

The loading screen was likely him incorporating his logs and such from his security system into his saved brain state

[grizzled garden]

I think the NCR is gonna win the battle and will negotiate with house over the strip

[jagged wing]

House is like the devil, always making deals and scheming in the shadows

You know I really think that the enclave sent agents to kill mr house

I mean they do see him as a rival

[abstract scarab]

I don't think they see him as a rival, they outplayed him and snatched his macguffin right from under his nose

[mystic plaza]

He said the Enclave are the ones who put the Deathclaws on the strip.

[fossil flicker]

I hate and love the enclave

[sacred idol]

IS THIS A FNAF REFERENCE?!

[ornate magnet]

They are going to kill house

[civic crypt]

you can't really kill him anymore

[grizzled garden]

they can't

all they can do is negotiate at this point, if they destroy the diode it'll do crazy shit

[random star]

Are they smart enough to know that

[trail cove]

@therealfireluigi

He's gone.

https://klipy.com/gifs/top-gun-top-gun-maverick-2

I'm the last one standing.

[grizzled garden]

house will probably tell them if they try

[elder fiber]

[compact bramble]

I rewatched eps 7 and 8 today but I got distracted

So does anyone know off the top of their head how many Deathclaws Maximus managed to kill? Like 6-7 right?

I meant to make an accurate count this morning but real life got in the way

[calm depot]

yeah it's 6 or 7

depending on if you count the one he wounded, the one the ranger finished off.

[rain breach]

67?

[compact bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/джона-хилл-jonah-hill-facepalm-рука-лицо-долоня-обличчя-gif-7167197686338732060

[trail cove]

https://klipy.com/gifs/bosnov-67

[patent dagger]

I really would love an pre war enclave official to arrive at area 51 and be pissed his card gone

[rain breach]

You started it by saying the numbers in order tho

[crude jolt]

DELETE IT!!!!!

[final spire]

[timid mural]

Five nights at Lucky's 38

[rain breach]

My bet for next season: Maximus and Thaddeus bromance

[olive wadi]

Hole in head ✅
Talks about robots ✅

[tropic quarry]

Clearly the courier

(It is funny tho that would be where the couriers bullet hole is)

[pastel dock]

Actually, it will be honestly be a hilarious twist if that dude was the Courier. The Courier got a bit nutty and somehow became the Grand Canyon elder. Makes as much sense as Fallout.

[dusty lantern]

another year or so until season 3

man it was such a good few weeks

[trail cove]

How would y'all feel if New Vegas became Shady Sands 2.0, essentially a new capital for the NCR plus the starting point to kickstart a new age for the nation