EPISODE 8

[normal crater]

The slowmo scenes are meant to be representation of that mechanics

[bright badge]

Courier definitely

Although nearly all the main characters are extremely traumatized

[normal crater]

Courier could possibly be even worse than him morality-wise

Both them and the Chosen One are children of the wasteland

Their sense of normality is probably very fucked-up compared to the pre-war/vault dweller guys

Plus the Courrier was also shot in the head lmao

[tame briar]

I'm rewatching and damn this writing was good. In episode 2 "seromes to heal your feet".

[blissful notch]

Yeah I loved how they realistically portrayed the lack of education in the wasteland

[whole drum]

gulpers are terrifying

also now we know they arent native to appalachia.

im disappointed we didnt see a Deathclaw in this show.

we literally only got to see the skull of one

they gave us a yao guai, but no deathclaw

[sturdy bone]

CGI budget

[bright badge]

They're also very rare in lore

[quartz pendant]

is dr klein in this show

[white olive]

"Wait. You're not Betty."

[quartz pendant]

i saw someone post

about him being in episode 2,

but I don't remember that

[bright badge]

Don't think so

[white olive]

Is the brain on a roomba Paul F. Tompkins?

[quartz pendant]

like... the actor?

[daring pilot]

I'm fine if they retcon the dumb new vegas decision about killing Mr House

Its stupid that you have to unseal the thing in order to plug him out

[blissful notch]

Ngl I'd be fine with a House ending for the Mojave

cause I've always chalked House or Yes Man up to my two endings because they're the most Vegas of the bunch

[daring pilot]

Considering how the hints of Episode 8 credits show. I doubt

If House wins means it will contradict new vegas slides

[abstract hemlock]

Agreed

[daring pilot]

So the best option is picking Yes man, which is the most fallout and retcon his probable death

As he was only disabled access to the mainframe

That way you dont waste an actor by killing it several seconds later or minutes after reappearing

And to be fair any actor would be pissed if it just gets bring back to die

[blissful notch]

How would that contradict the NV slides? 🤨

You mean the Season 1 credits?

[daring pilot]

The NCR girl says Mr House restores society, cold and perfect as it was during pre-war, unmatched by his securitron army

[blissful notch]

Ah that's fair

[normal crater]

I can see a NCR-aligned courier victory who made a deal with Mr House to spare him alive

[bright badge]

Not all actors have those egos tbf

[daring pilot]

Its not about ego, but anyone will be silently dissapointed

[blissful notch]

I'm thinking we may just get an Independent Vegas in disarray that Cooper & Co. will be stuck trying to fix

[normal crater]

Then when the NCR pulling out after getting nuked + famines due to overpopulation, mr house comes back and bussiness as usual

[bright badge]

House reappearing would break some endings though

[daring pilot]

Not really

There's detail adjusting and major retcon

[bright badge]

House himself says being exposed to the air gives him a limited lifespan

[normal crater]

there is a way to make all endings canon - they have done it before

[bright badge]

Dragonbreaks don't exist in fallout

It'll be pissing off a lot of people to insert house arbitrarily

[normal crater]

and I don't see problems with leaving mr house alive

[bright badge]

Most endings necessitate is death

[normal crater]

maybe the body inside lucky tower is just a decoy (lol) and his real body is somewhere else

[daring pilot]

As far I know, House being exposed to the air is a gameplay balance rather than anything else

[bright badge]

You've seen the ncr thing, that'll cause a shitstorm itself

[daring pilot]

You got a robot AI that is plugged into his mainframe

Yes Man you could have told you how to plug him out and do not expose him into the air.

Mr house survived 200 years like that. Its not like he couldn't survive another 10 sealed but unable to control the tower

[normal crater]

I don't like mr house but he's an entertaining character I would love to be kept around

[bright badge]

Better in flashbacks

The pre war world isn't one that's explored as much in game

[daring pilot]

Cass lived to see Hoover Dam in its Old World glory, humming with power the likes of which the Mojave had never seen. Vegas burned brighter than ever, Securitrons filled the streets, and Cass's heart skipped... just a little. Her last words were to the Dam - and to herself. "We were going full speed ahead... but facing backwards the whole time."

[blissful notch]

So yeah I'd say probably Yes Man trying to manage a crumbling/ruined Vegas is plausible

[whole drum]

and its so interesting

i dont get why people dont want to see more of it

[tame briar]

not sure the last show i saw that was this good honestly

3/8 through a rewatch

[whole drum]

ive said in the past that I want fallout 5 to start us out in the prewar again, but have more lore put into it, and people said they wouldnt want that.

theres so much unexplored lore that you cant get from just exploring something 200 years after it happened.

[tame briar]

you want the intro of fo5 to be prewar, like the coop bit?

[whole drum]

yeah kinda

[bright badge]

It works better in show form tbh

[tame briar]

agreed

[bright badge]

The issue of pre war gameplay is you're gonna be on rails since they need to make an entirely different chunk of map for it

[whole drum]

yes but its setting the stage for 200 years later

[tame briar]

And it's not really gameplay. Just story.

[bright badge]

Works better in a non interactive medium

[whole drum]

which is what fallout is about

fallout has more story than gameplay

[blissful notch]

Yk I think this show is a good PSA for why we should always opt for the biometric lock on our pip-boys

[bright badge]

It doesn't? It's not a walking simulator

[whole drum]

yes it does

fallout gameplay is literally run, gun, and loot.

[bright badge]

And talk, explore and read

[whole drum]

a.k.a lore

[tame briar]

the story is literally reading screens (75%)

[whole drum]

which means you just agreed with me there.
Fallout has more story than gameplay

[tame briar]

you are downplaying the importance of gameplay

[bright badge]

You're conflating variety with amount

[tame briar]

it's a game. gameplay matters.

[bright badge]

He's attempting to describe a walking simulator tbf

[blissful notch]

The only way I can see a pre-war fallout working is if it was an military espionage deal where you go around gathering info and even then it'd only work as a spin-off and probably still be on rails

[bright badge]

Like it's not an either or

You don't compromise one by having the other

[tame briar]

Yep

[bright badge]

You don't lose control of your character at any point though. That's classified as gameplay

What you're describing is a gameplay loop

[whole drum]

or an idea.

Just a throwaway character, meant to give people lore about the game and setup the future, and after the war you actually gain control of your real character

[bright badge]

Sounds incredibly grating for future playthroughs

A non interactive medium just works better for the kinda exposition you're looking for

Playing Howard's stuff would be boring. Since half of it is pre war dialogue scenes. But watching it is interesting

[whole drum]

Heres a setup.
You are a throwaway character, you are spying on vault tec or someone, you leave behind a holotape of your thoughts and findings, the nuke goes off and you die.

Your real character in the future finds said holotape and yeah. Basically just a sketch on paper on how itd work

[bright badge]

Because you're not broken out of the dialogue to press a button or two

[whole drum]

sort of how cooper was

and this way it can go multiple directions.
Maybe your a scavenger.
Maybe you are a mercenary
ect.

This also fits with almost every fallout game too, because the start of the game is always super slow. So unless they want to finally change it up after many games, this would be right up their alley of style.

[bright badge]

1 and NV are pretty quick

[whole drum]

thats why i said almost

[blissful notch]

What would y'all put the three main character's SPECIAL stats at?

[whole drum]

hmmm

Lucy's Charisma is definitely low.

thats pretty much agiven right off the bat.

[formal turtle]

Ok but are we just supposed to assume Moldaver was a popsicle for a good while or something? Or is she secretly another Cabot case, lol

[blissful notch]

I'd say popsicle, a Psyker is extremely rare to come across

[normal crater]

max has low charisma, high strength and decent endurance

[whole drum]

The ghoul would have high agility, 100%

[tame briar]

no. she's just naive.

[blissful notch]

I'd say decent strength and high endurance, you see how many times he got beat the shit out of?

[whole drum]

she failed so many speech attempts

[blissful notch]

She dumped her charisma, she's just leveling her speech guys

[normal crater]

in a series where super mutants and ghouls exist, your average human wouldn't have high endurance

[formal turtle]

Which raises the question of where and how, since she probably wasn’t also vault 31… right?

[blissful notch]

People have theorized she had big bucks

[tame briar]

ma let her escort the enlave guy

[formal turtle]

but then again it’s not weird to imagine that there’s many popsicle vaults now that we know of two confirmed ones—31 and 111

[whole drum]

Lucy however has high intelligence, thats for sure...because she was vault raised

[whole drum]

what

[tame briar]

wym what?

[normal crater]

oh and max probably has decent agility and gun skils

[whole drum]

what are you talking about

[blissful notch]

she's got good aim too, you see those roaches?

[normal crater]

he managed to wina 2v1 shootout

[rare acorn]

Wait if Hank knew Moldaver why didn't he recognize her in ep1 when she shows up to the vault exchange

[whole drum]

which roaches

[blissful notch]

probably didn't know her but knew OF her

[whole drum]

maybe he did, he just didnt want to show it

[blissful notch]

the ones crawling on Maximus' armor

[tame briar]

lucy's cha is there but fails a few times

[whole drum]

those poor roaches. She went overkill on them

[blissful notch]

she was angy

[tame briar]

stop with the sponge bob

[blissful notch]

but yeah Hank probably heard about Moldaver but never saw her personally

[normal crater]

we as players like to bullet-maxxing but the average joe won't lol

[blissful notch]

otherwise he would've flipped the fuck out the second he saw her

[formal turtle]

Ok but was there somethin somethin with Moldaver and Lucy’s mom 😂

[normal crater]

cockroaches are dangerous in large number

[normal crater]

they were fucking, I thought that was implied

[whole drum]

doesnt mean they need to be stomped into the next dimension

[formal turtle]

I was getting more than friends vibes from that… I mean, keeping her feral ghoul in her private quarters? Sounds pretty gay

[rare acorn]

Wdym he chased his wife that took his kids to moldaver in shady sands, got the kids back and then nuked the place

[blissful notch]

and they were roommates

[tame briar]

which i believe is new to lore

[blissful notch]

like I said, heard about her but never saw her in person and assumed she died in the nuke

[whole drum]

speaking of nuking shady sands.

I predicted the brotherhood was responsible because well you know, LORE... damn that plot twist got me.

[formal turtle]

tfw your wife casually suggests starting the nukes that will end the world

[blissful notch]

Wonder what that BOS Knight was doing at the nuke sight though

BOS heard a nuke went off so set to go investigate

[normal crater]

scavenging I guess

shady sands were pretty well developed by the time it was nuked

[whole drum]

he thought liberty prime took a shit

[normal crater]

probably have advanced technologies there too

[blissful notch]

pretty ballsy of a Knight tbh, considering the NCR's relationship with the Brotherhood

[whole drum]

exactly my reason for believing the brotherhood did it

[normal crater]

I doubt the NCR was available immediately right after the nuking

most of them were busy dying

[blissful notch]

Right but if you heard a place you were fighting got nuked would you wanna go see if the survivors were ok?

Shit they'd probably blame the BOS considering Hank is an unknown factor

[rare acorn]

I wonder if we'll see liberty prime get used

[whole drum]

i hope so

thatd be dope as hell

[blissful notch]

DC to Boston is one thing, but Boston to CALIFORNIA?

[rare acorn]

Magine seeing him throw a football nuke into a building and then it suddenly turns to dust

[formal turtle]

using Liberty prime to destroy Hank MacLean

[normal crater]

Moldaver knew who was the perpetrator so I don't think they blamed it on the BoS

[whole drum]

something i know we all thought of when we saw Max in the fridge for the first time was Billy.

[blissful notch]

well the normal residents

[formal turtle]

Tfw we get a House cameo but not a Maxson cameo despite the BOS being the main faction shown 😔

[blissful notch]

Maxson is not the elder of this chapter

[formal turtle]

true, but didn’t they literally bring the Prydwen from the east coast to help

unless that really was the “Caswennan” like that old article said

[blissful notch]

no that's the Caswenan

[normal crater]

And I guess Moldaver couldn't get Lucy's mom's pip-boy working for a very long time, probably damaged

[tame briar]

it's kind of meta to be fos

[blissful notch]

yeah she planned that revenge for a while

[blissful notch]

WELL FUCK

[formal turtle]

Yeah that’s what I thought I saw

[normal crater]

I'm strongly believe vault 31-32-33 use a more secured pip-boy authentication

[formal turtle]

so if the Prydwen was there, wouldn’t Maxson have been on board

that’s what Danse told us at least—Maxson is wherever the Prydwen is

[normal crater]

maybe only pip-boys from these vaults are able to unlock them

[blissful notch]

yeah but no ordinary recruit's gonna see the Elder

or maybe Maxson isn't the elder anymore

[rare acorn]

I didn't believe it at first but it really is the prydwen, at least they weren't lazy and say it's another airship that looks identical to it

[whole drum]

I find it really cool Pipboys are able to open/close doors.

[normal crater]

Also explained why the Master and the NCR didn't pry the 3 vaults opened despite being very close to them.

[whole drum]

literally blutooth doors

[rare acorn]

Maxson was like 20 something in 4 and this is 9 years later so at most he's 30ish

[tame briar]

that's silly. if they can build 1, they can build 2.

[rare acorn]

Yea well they didn't

[tame briar]

ok

[rare acorn]

So it don't matter anyway

[tame briar]

maybe

[formal turtle]

Ok but I screamed in the scene just before the ghoul was revealed back in episode 1

[whole drum]

didnt they build it using scrap from the citadel

[rare acorn]

Why

[formal turtle]

I swore that looked just like the castle and I thought that was fucking Preston for a second

[rare acorn]

Huuuh

[blissful notch]

Preston became hispanic

[whole drum]

Preston appears in season 2.

Quick, a Settlement needs our help!

[formal turtle]

Not the hispanic guy but the black guy 😂

[whole drum]

instant PTSD to all fallout 4 players

[blissful notch]

OH

[formal turtle]

then he started talking ofc

[blissful notch]

I immediately thought mexico tbh

[formal turtle]

Sigh of relief

[rare acorn]

Seeing how bos just wiped out filly I wonder if the Bos in Boston did the same with the settlements there

[blissful notch]

Fun fact, Goggins brought that dude in on his own accord cause they've worked together on multiple other projects

[whole drum]

no matter where we go in fallout, preston is waiting for us, and he always makes sure a settlement needs our help.

[blissful notch]

I think they moreso made the Commonwealth submit

[formal turtle]

I want to hope that the canon ending to 4 is the pacifist minuteman one where Sole brokers peace between the BOS and Railroad and settlements

but…

yeah a full BOS ending seems likely

[rare acorn]

Todd loves bos

[tame briar]

"this will make more sense in the morning" -someone, somewhere

[whole drum]

well they are super interesting as a faction

[blissful notch]

ok so wait, if the Prydwen is still running then does that mean the Sole Survivor sided with the BOS?

[whole drum]

they are more than just big metal men

[formal turtle]

Sole either did the peaceful minuteman ending or they sided with the BOS

[rare acorn]

I like the show depiction of them, hope fo5 has them like that

[tame briar]

barely

[blissful notch]

I think BOS might be more likely, it's something he's familiar with

and joining a faction with the most structure would be a way to cope after losing your entire life

[whole drum]

I hope fallout 5 has that weakness in power armor the ghoul mentioned below the torso i think?

[formal turtle]

Tbf do we even know whether Nate or Nora are the canonical sole survivor the way we know the og vault dweller was a male

[blissful notch]

Shit we might end up hearing about a certain Sentinel aboard the Prydwen tbh

[formal turtle]

I don’t think they’ve canonized yet whether Nate or Nora is sole

[blissful notch]

I'd place my money on Nate

[rare acorn]

Same

[whole drum]

its pretty much pointing towards Nate

literally Nora has absolutely no reason to be canonical

[blissful notch]

military is something he's familiar with so it makes the most sense for him to join up with another militaristic faction

[sturdy bone]

Sounds sexist but okay

[whole drum]

its true

[rare acorn]

It seems more likely Nate cuz Nora probably would've been holding Shaun in all reality and get killed by kellogg

[blissful notch]

especially considering he lacked structure after losing his wife and his life

[whole drum]

theres tons of videos out there explaining why Nora simply wouldnt make any lick of sense for being a canonical survivor

and they all have very valid points

[blissful notch]

A good way to keep the Sole Survivor faceless would be to have them never shown outside of their power armor and bring the voice actor back

[rare acorn]

Plus being thrusted into the wastes immediately with no time to adjust to the mutations he'd definitely be in the same mindset as bos for wiping out super mutants and ghouls

[formal turtle]

maybe, but I do have a soft spot for Nora. It’s kind of hilarious playing as a prewar mom rampaging through the commonwealth

[blissful notch]

Our boy Nate is a bigot 😔

[rare acorn]

I mean have you seen what he can say to the guy on the sub

[blissful notch]

"You commie bastard! You destroyed my country! "

shit that might end up being canon too now that we know he's probably diehard BOS

[chrome lake]

Just checking in on you guys, is this place still in denial about NV being written out of the canon?

[rare acorn]

What

[whole drum]

you know what im disappointed in?

The promotion for this show was Nuka Cola Victory.

Where the hell was the Nuka Cola Victory in the show?

[blissful notch]

the head writer said NV is canon, learn to read a timeline, go away with your negativity pls

[chrome lake]

He also stated Tactics was canon in the same post

[rare acorn]

Did anyone even drink a nuka cola, I saw some bottles on the ground and shelves

[formal turtle]

There was an ad for it in the super duper mart

[whole drum]

WOW thats all we get

[blissful notch]

Not thinking of the same post, shoo go away stop trying to rage bait dawg

[chrome lake]

which is literally impossible

[whole drum]

it doesnt even get a physical appearence

[blissful notch]

should've been Sunset Sarsaparilla tbh

[rare acorn]

Tactics isn't canon but stuff from tactics is canon like bos airships and gauss minigun

[whole drum]

If you ever feel useless, just remember, there is a Roomba robobrain that is pretty close to being blind.

[chrome lake]

well the "lead writer" disagrees, sorry pal

[blissful notch]

dude can you please not

[chrome lake]

shall I fetch the post?

[blissful notch]

like we wanna have actual discussion here, not mald over a plot point that DOES NOT EXIST

I can give you the whole timeline spiel if you want

[whole drum]

that robobrain roomba was hilarious as a character

like he literally is just a roomba, with a brain

[chrome lake]

well, I'm posting it anyway because I went to go grab it

[whole drum]

I hope season 2 makes the roomba return

[blissful notch]

@chrome lake Alright so in this shot we see Shady Sands "fell" in 2277, however it is shown as a separate event from it being nuked. Meaning it is more than likely a fall from grace rather than a societal collapse. And given the fact Maximus looks to be between ages 8-10 in the scene where Shady Sands was nuked and he's close to Lucy's age (19), which would place the nuking of Shady Sands AFTER 2281, which is when New Vegas takes place.

[whole drum]

he has a point

[blissful notch]

And now this is actually just rage bait

[whole drum]

well listen. This shouldnt be your point.

[rare acorn]

The lead writer literally said just because he says something doesn't make it automatically canon

[whole drum]

What you should be questioning is why in the hell they were hosting a birthday party at 6:47AM.

[blissful notch]

TRUE

[chrome lake]

Then you can't make the same argument back to me only when it fits your narrative

It was a response to you literally playing the same card

[rare acorn]

What argument

[chrome lake]

.

[blissful notch]

I feel like we'd all benefit as a community if we stopped being negative bitches about every miniscule detail and tried to wrap our minds around things rather than having this perfect image in our mind

[whole drum]

who hosts a birthday party at 6AM

[chrome lake]

not you but w/e

[rare acorn]

Doesn't look like my argument lmao

[chrome lake]

well

tell the same thing to that guy then

it would be the intellectually honest thing to do, even if it fits your narrative

[whole drum]

hosting a birthday party at 6AM is a crime.

[chrome lake]

anyway, I'm dropping this, I got my answer

[rare acorn]

Someone asked Emil if NV was canon he released a timeline showing the order of the games and show and then said that Bethesda has never implied that NV was non canon

[blissful notch]

this post refers to a "fall" of Shady Sands as a SOCIETAL COLLAPSE and I referred to it as a FALL FROM GRACE meaning IT IS NO LONGER THE CAPITAL OF THE NCR and THIS POINT IS SUPPORTED VIA NEW VEGAS DIALOGUE

I realize you dropped this already but I was already typing it up

[chrome lake]

Which leads me to think it's at best an error the showrunners didn't think about and Bethesda didn't catch.

[chrome lake]

where in NV?

[rare acorn]

What error?

[chrome lake]

the date, not only on the chalkboard but also on the library cards in one of the endings

[blissful notch]

GI Blues, NCR Missionary test "What was the original name of the capital of the NCR?"

[rare acorn]

What does the library card say?

[chrome lake]

that's because by the time of Fallout 2 it was no longer called Shady Sands, it was just known as "New California Republic"

[blissful notch]

And the sign on the Shady Sands welcome sign refers to itself as the first capital of the NCR

[blissful notch]

Man, New California Republic capital of the New California Republic

[chrome lake]

no one actually refers to it as Shady Sands in NV wither outside of like one mention I think?

[chrome lake]

have you played Fallout 2?

[rare acorn]

Well yea that's what everyone does

[blissful notch]

I dabbled but had real life shit crop up before I could complete it

[chrome lake]

What you are saying right now is factually incorrect, this isn't even a difference of opinion

[rare acorn]

Don't mean there's a second capital but I don't think NCR is wiped out so there probably is a new capital in like the hub

[chrome lake]

Play Fallout 2 and you'll know this

[blissful notch]

I would like some evidence as to why I am incorrect

[chrome lake]

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_California_Republic_(town)

gladly

[rare acorn]

Kinda wish they didn't show a map of vault locations in the show to leave things ambiguous

[blissful notch]

Alright, fair enough I'll give you the point there

[chrome lake]

It also did not take place in LA

[blissful notch]

Yeah I had gripes with that tbh

[chrome lake]

In fact, it was over 300 miles from LA

[formal turtle]

It’s funny how they have to put all the canon ones from the games on the map too, so it makes the game regions look weirdly overrepresented

[blissful notch]

I chalked it up moreso to an oversight

[blissful notch]

East Coast looking like a Christmas tree:

[chrome lake]

then why wouldn't the date be an oversight? that seems like a lot easier to dismiss as one than an entire town moving 300 miles

[blissful notch]

Right but it's also easy to dismiss Maximus' "15 years" comment as an oversight or chalking it up to him frankly being a dumbass

[chrome lake]

It's not just the chalkboard mind you, the library cards heavily suggest the nuke was in 2277

[formal turtle]

now, if we pay closer attention...

[rare acorn]

What do these cards look like

[formal turtle]

maybe some hints as to fo5

the gulf coast of texas looks pretty represented here, along with the Kansas City region

[chrome lake]

The point of that post is more-so that it's funny to me the r/Fallout mods are on that much of a damage control spree to remove that post

[blissful notch]

May I ask why you push the 2277 nuke timeline so much? As a Fallout fan I figure you'd be a bit more hesitant to write off New Vegas

[chrome lake]

to be completely honest

I'm actually happy about it

[blissful notch]

Seriously?

[chrome lake]

but not for the reason you probably think

[blissful notch]

May I assume it has to do with NMA and NV elitists?

[chrome lake]

I think it provides a clean break

[warm ermine]

The library card says the book was due November 2276, so it's not a very strong proof to say it means the bomb was 2277 because it was already over a year overdue

[chrome lake]

It allows the two to be seperate and it makes both sides more enjoyable because of it

A lot of inconsistancies can be fixed by just straight up seperating the canons

[blissful notch]

irresponsible ahh library card owner

[warm ermine]

yeah a kid I'm not surprised lol

[rare acorn]

Ya some of the sign out dates have like a decade in-between

[chrome lake]

and actually, I think it would be pretty cool if Bethesda made their own take on Fallout 1 and 2(maybe even as one game) as a form of soft reboot to fit their changes to the lore such as it being named shady sands and replacing the boneyard

I'd be all for it

[blissful notch]

It just feels kind of redundant tbh

[rare acorn]

If anything the signout card is saying the nuke was in the 2280s

[formal turtle]

(also one in Orlando, FL that Barb is covering with her body)

[chrome lake]

Which is why I said 'heavily suggests', occams razor should always be used and in this case it's more likely it's implying the book is under 1 year overdue than 5+ years overdue

[blissful notch]

the one vault in canada:

[rare acorn]

Only 2 dates are in the same decade every other is separated by a lot of time so I think it's more likely the nuke happened in 2280s

[formal turtle]

but yeah there's an interesting cluster around Houston and another around Kansas City...

[blissful notch]

We'll probably see what happens if Bethesda ever makes an official statement or if this gets straightened up in Season 2

Cause at the moment a lot of evidence can support either claim

[chrome lake]

that's a good point, but it also makes less sense for it to be shown if it wasn't to imply that was the last time it was checked out because shady sands was donezo by then

[warm ermine]

well we know it fell from grace of some sort 2277 so maybe kids stopped going to school

[chrome lake]

It will likely be ignored entirely and written off just like every other accidental retcon Beth has made like pre-war terminal entries about jet

[blissful notch]

kids started stealing library books

[warm ermine]

stealing books yes

[chrome lake]

I don't think this was done maliciously to spite obsidian as most people think

I genuinly think it was an oversight, but a fatal one

[rare acorn]

The fall of sounds like it was declining which is probably why they sent the army to NV to get power from the dam

[blissful notch]

To be fair, that does have a Fallout 2 explanation where the Chosen One can call Myron out on his bullshit and state his formula is obviously created from a pre-existing concoction

and for all we know that pre-existing concoction could be pre-war

[chrome lake]

That doesn't match up with what characters from NV speak of the capital city

namely Heck Gunderson

[blissful notch]

And also Bethesda fixed their X-01 debacle in 76

[chrome lake]

Who lives there

And was visiting recently for a cattle deal

[rare acorn]

He's a rich rancher he wouldn't notice the same problems as an average poor folk

[chrome lake]

kinda interesting how that character is probably one of the most powerful people politically, even more-so than Mr House or President Kimbal himself

[blissful notch]

Brahmin Barons amirite

[chrome lake]

It's the equivalent to casually meeting a patriarch Rothschild casually at a hotel bar

[warm ermine]

One of the show runners has been playing the games since the first one, I'm not inclined to believe it was a mistake on their end to have the date and more so that they specifically make it really ambiguous for a reason

[blissful notch]

Also I feel like the point still stands as the explosion was not explicitly dated as 2277, just that there was some form of fall in 2277 prior to the nuke happening

hence the arrow

[warm ermine]

it seems way too weird to put all those dates up there very explicitly to then make a goof on one date for no reason

[chrome lake]

It wasn't dated at all, why would it be implied as anything other than the same date that's next to it?

[warm ermine]

I feel like we'll probably find out why

it would be implied because flow charts work like that, an arrow to something else means later

[blissful notch]

like maybe we shouldn't believe "civilized" people who get naked and drink blood and worship a 200 year old lady, perhaps?

[chrome lake]

The only reason it wasn't drawn above the date was because of the ammount of room on the chalkboard canvas

[rare acorn]

Maybe they don't wanna reveal Lucy n max age or something idk

[warm ermine]

That's totally normal I dunno what you mean

[chrome lake]

that's another thing, I think they were mistaking Tandy as being the founder?

I might need to rewatch that scene

[blissful notch]

No that was Moldaver, they worship her for some reason

idk why

[warm ermine]

flame mother or something

[chrome lake]

ah, yeah, I'll rewatch it

[blissful notch]

Maybe after FO2 she formed a cult in Shady Sands

[small linden]

maybe its because she gonna bring the power back to the whole city

[blissful notch]

Yeah I wouldn't doubt she preached about returning power to the LA region, which is probably what drew Lucy's mother in

That would explain why she's called the Flame Mother too tbh

[chrome lake]

So then why is Shady Sands called Shady Sands? and why is it in the boneyard 300+ miles away from where it actually is? And why is LA not called the boneyard?

[warm ermine]

I dunno I'm not a nerd

[blissful notch]

I assumed just an oversight

[chrome lake]

okay but why is that an oversight but not the date?

[blissful notch]

Bethesda has dropped the ball on menial things such as that, however they never dropped a ball so hard they decanonized an entire game

[chrome lake]

kinda dismissive, you could just admit you can't support your own argument instead of implying people who actually care are just nerds

[warm ermine]

I didn't play 1 or 2 I don't know the answers to these questions lol

I'm a nerd I'm just being pedantic

[chrome lake]

hold on I have an image just for this lol let me find it

[blissful notch]

Fallout fandom in a nutshell

[warm ermine]

I can only argue what I know off this

That be a meme

[blissful notch]

please spare his life grand mama

[warm ermine]

This time

[blissful notch]

he knows not what he does

[chrome lake]

okay well, I don't mind it being deleted I just wanted it seen because it fit the context of this entire discussion

[blissful notch]

Sorry if I came off as a bit much btw, I've just grown tired of having this same discussion so many times and I'd like to talk about Fallout positively for once yk?

I already went through my bethesda bad phase back in 2020

[chrome lake]

I even said I'm happy about the change if it is actually true NV was written out of the canon

[blissful notch]

Yeah I can see how that might end up being interesting

[small linden]

nv canon

[blissful notch]

but it'd also be cool for the entire series to be one cohesive timeline

[warm ermine]

It seems way too important of a detail written out in your face for it to just be an oopsie

[chrome lake]

but, I think the arguments for it being both intentional and not a retcon are pretty weak so far. at least until we get a season 2 with more context. Either it's an oversight or NV was written out of the canon. I'm more inclined to believe the former over the latter

I also prefer to not attribute to malice where incompetence is a possibility

[blissful notch]

Here's hoping we get a post-2281 flashback in season 2 showing the nuking of Shady Sands

[chrome lake]

Just like Shady Sands being in the boneyard

[warm ermine]

no matter what year it was we're gonna get that scene

[blissful notch]

What if they didn't write out a specific date for this specific reason tbh?

to get us talking about the show

[warm ermine]

my theory is yeah it was on purpose ambiguous to get people riled up

[blissful notch]

TODD HOWARD YOU DID IT AGAIN

[small linden]

bravo

[warm ermine]

cause then they can go back and be like heyyy actually

[sturdy bone]

Because there's an arrow pointing to it and that's how flow charts work

[blissful notch]

I love how Titus was just the average Fallout player

[chrome lake]

man what if this was a ploy to get people pissed about how they ignore NV only for them to announce a ne w Fallout game by obsidian now that both companies are owned by microsoft

[warm ermine]

see I'm saying I really dont think it was an accident

whether for goofy shit like that or for just being ambiguous

[blissful notch]

I do not want modern obsidian to make a Fallout considering they aren't the same as back in 2010

[chrome lake]

personally it wouldn't really mean we get a game like NV ever again, that ship has sailed, most of the people that made NV what it was don't work at obsidian anymore sadly

[chrome lake]

exactly

[warm ermine]

microsoft bethesda fallout: new vegas : 2

[chrome lake]

Back then it was mostly comprised of former Black Isle/interplay devs, also Troika devs who where also former Black Isle devs

[blissful notch]

Yk I feel like if Titus wasn't such a dick to Maximus and saying he was gonna get hung he would've lived and been extracted back to base

[chrome lake]

Activision and Bethesda did Troika so dirty

[warm ermine]

titus literally died because dick

[chrome lake]

Well, it's not like Beth did it out of malice when they won the bid for the franchise

but it was a huge blow to the studio

[blissful notch]

also I think he might've gotten paralyzed

[sturdy bone]

They don't ignore nv lmao. They've made tons of nv merch in comparison to 3/4/76

I love NV but y'all fanboys are truly on a weird fuckin cult level of fanaticism without a lot of backing

[chrome lake]

I so wish this was the case. I have a allout shelf but I only fill it with stuff from Fallout 1, 2 and NV. hard to come by anything that doesn't have a 101 or 111 on it

[chrome lake]

Can I share a post that was made recently for context on why a lot of us feel this way? It's going to seem rather harsh but it will put it into perspective

[sturdy bone]

No because I really don't care. Y'all are really on some culty shit with how you approach consuming media.

Placing way too much blame on singular people who work as part of teams

[rare acorn]

I think it's funny Michael Rapaport is in it for like 30 seconds before dying

[blissful notch]

Huh?

[rare acorn]

He's titus

[blissful notch]

OH SHIT HE IS

How'd I not catch that??

[warm ermine]

at the theatre when they made the reveal people were losing their shit

[rare acorn]

Be really cool if Lucy got her own power armor in like season 3 or something, probably not s2, maybe she could use it in s2 but ya

[blissful notch]

You guys reckon Titus was a commonwealth inductee?

he's more laid back and not as culty as the others

[normal crater]

There's a reason why interplay bankrupted and troika gone defunct

[blissful notch]

Interplay had hit a roadblock with Fallout after Tactics really

they had no idea what else to do

and was under pressure to figure out what to do quickly

[chrome lake]

Are you aware of the history of how Activision fucked them over?

Because that comes off as extremely disrespectful honestly

[chrome lake]

Interplay made BoS as well, so I'm honestly glad it was out of their hands as publishers. I do wish it was a little later though so we got to live in a world where we got both Van Buren and NV

then Fallout 3 would be called 4

[sturdy bone]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/26AffLyoIa

Maybe not merch but it's licensed out as much if not more than the others for tie ins.

[regal carbon]

Wasn't van buren like really weird

[blissful notch]

Oh man I'll be dead serious when I say this, Van Buren seemed to look like another mediocre Fallout title produced by them

[regal carbon]

Like the whole born ghoul idea

[blissful notch]

Like in the same vein as Tactics

[blissful notch]

that was more test tube baby experimentation than actually being born a ghoul

[regal carbon]

Still weird

[blissful notch]

very

[rare acorn]

They did ghouls so well

[blissful notch]

Cause the thing I liked about Fallout was it had some grounding in reality and from what I can tell Interplay started straying away from that and their writing just kept getting knocked down a peg

[chrome lake]

didn't you say you hadn't played 1 or 2?

[blissful notch]

I played through 1 start to finish, I started 2 and had some personal life issues crop up

[chrome lake]

ah

[blissful notch]

I watched a tactics lets play before buying the classic pack on steam so I didn't bother playing it

[regal carbon]

Just a reminder anime is canon in fallout

[chrome lake]

I'm asking this because I'm wondering if you feel this way because it wasn't first person like FO3

[chrome lake]

I'm honestly not a big fan of tactics

[blissful notch]

and all I know from 2 is from commentary and lore vids

hence why the whole Shady Sands being renamed thing flew over my head

[normal crater]

You were refering to the vampire game?

[chrome lake]

There's also a ton of stuff from 2 i'm not a fan of.

[blissful notch]

Oh dude Fallout could be a gameboy title and I'd still play the hell out of it, I adore the writing in most of the games

[chrome lake]

There were SO many bad jokes and pop culture references and also some goofy lore breaking shit

[blissful notch]

Yeah they went overboard in 2 with the goofiness

[regal carbon]

2 is the start of the end of good interplay fallouts

Or well interplay keeping lore correct

[chrome lake]

Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, absolutely phenomenal game. Saying it's a universally loved cult classic really wouldn't put into perspective just how good it was despite being so niche.

[chrome lake]

Fallout 2 was well written but the team was extremely undercoordinated so some goofy shit made through the cracks. I also feel the same way about Fallout 1 to be fair but to a lesser extent

[normal crater]

Read about that game a while back. Honestly I think it was more of a bad gamble rather than anything malicious. Source Engine is Valve's proprietary tech, they of course wouldn't allow them to release a game before they did.

[chrome lake]

Fallout 1 actually did have just as many pop culture references despite what Tim Cain says

mostly in it's random encounters

[blissful notch]

I feel like references being in encounters is ok tbh cause that isn't too in your face

[chrome lake]

but the ghost woman and the ghoul who claims he was in a live grave for a month are the two main ones

[chrome lake]

I like that they were made optional in NV through Wild Wasteland

[regal carbon]

Chris avellone on his way to make the sex workers say Chris avellone crafted their bodies with his hands

[quartz pendant]

Lmao

[blissful notch]

Paranormal things in Fallout are pretty interesting

[normal crater]

It's why i'm baffle that people actually advocate for Unreal/Unity for future BSG games. There's always a chance you will get fucked over by the engine maker

[quartz pendant]

A lead writer shouldn’t be making declarations via Twitter

[regal carbon]

Creation engine is by far fallout

[blissful notch]

Yeah it sets an awful precedent, especially when they go back on one of their points by saying "It's just a headcanon!" decrediting EVERYTHING they said before

[regal carbon]

I don't think another engine could replace it

[chrome lake]

this is why I'm a huge fan of Godot(but not for Bethesda)

[formal turtle]

im looking through the cast list and, damn, they actually really took so much care to get things right. even those pre-war executives we see talking to bud and barb and mr house are all real characters from the terminal entries in the games

[blissful notch]

it may be held together with duct tape and gluesticks but dammit it's ours

[chrome lake]

Godot is open source and on the MIT license so it doesn't matter what the creators do, it can be forked by anyone.

[normal crater]

A lot of them doesn't feel like pop culture because the modern audience is far removed from the period the game was released in

[formal turtle]

like, the west-tek rep is the same guy that maxson describes in his holotapes in fo3

[chrome lake]

I think Bethesda should stay in-house but for the love of god take ol' faithful out behind the shed already

[blissful notch]

The people who made this clearly had a deep love for the games, unlike Halo writers who borderline HATED the source material

[normal crater]

Most people (me included) was just clumps of cells when fo1 released

[regal carbon]

Hell that repconn lady is referenced in nv

[formal turtle]

yeah

[regal carbon]

Also is referenced in 1

[normal crater]

I think from the documentary it's clear that their engine coders are just bad

[chrome lake]

Bethesda's use of the gamebryo engine is old enough to drink in the US

[chrome lake]

I played Fallout 2 as a kid

[blissful notch]

do we count reincarnations or nah?

[regal carbon]

The rockstar still uses rage

[normal crater]

The culture at BSG likes to keep old blood around rather than grind them to dust like most aaa studios

[blissful notch]

Rockstar actually updates and maintains RAGE though

[regal carbon]

And that was made in 2006

Bethesda does the same

[blissful notch]

Sure...

[chrome lake]

Really depends, there's snippets of DNA from Id Tech 3 in most modern game engines. So saying outright "no" wouldn't really be fair

[normal crater]

Game design has changed a lot since the days of gamebryo, fresh blood is needed for that old machine

[gray mason]

sounds like vault 11

[regal carbon]

Also Bethesda doesn't use gamebryo anymore

[chrome lake]

as someone who is familiar with the engine like the back of my hand from modding for over a decade and a half, The biggest issue with gamebryo is asset streaming, which is why starfield couldn't do vehicles or planetary landing

[blissful notch]

Who shall Todd sacrifice to Molag Bal to maintain the Creation Engine?

[gray mason]

creation engine

[regal carbon]

That's like saying source is the same as gold source

[chrome lake]

I am telling you this as a matter of fact, it is the same engine, I can literally load up files from Fallout 4 into the construction kit that shipped with morrowind and they will work and populate the databases

[normal crater]

Wasn't implying that, I was refering about how the people behind it haven't changed much

[blissful notch]

Yeah I remember a mod that got taken off of Nexus that featured meshes from New Vegas ported into 4 as a proof of concept

it is absolutely wild

[chrome lake]

After the reception starfield got microsoft is likely going to pressure them to design a new engine going forward

[normal crater]

A software is as modern or as good as the abilities of its developers

[regal carbon]

Like you can do the same with source and gold source I think

[blissful notch]

I feel like Starfield wasn't something too much of the team cared about ngl

[chrome lake]

That's heavily dependant on the foundation things are being built on. Sometimes the solution is to wipe the spaghetti code and start fresh

[regal carbon]

Because both are similar

As creation is forked off gamebryo but improved

[normal crater]

I wouldn't advise that as someone with (minimal) experience in software development. Starting fresh is a good way to bankrupt your company

[chrome lake]

most of it's improvements are in the visual department, it still has many of the same limitations it had since morrowind unfortunately

[regal carbon]

Also if Bethesda would to swap engines the next Bethesda game wouldn't release for God knows how long

[chrome lake]

but there are benefits to the gamebryo engine, most other engines aren't designed to have every object be an intractable object than can be picked up, stored it's location, put in your inventory, etc

[blissful notch]

Maybe that's why Elder Scrolls is taking so long, trying to reinvent the wheel

[warm wyvern]

I wanna see camp searchlight next season

I TOOK THE RED AND THE BLUE PILL AND WOKE UP IN CAMP SEARCHLIGHT🔥🔥‼️‼️

[normal crater]

Tbh I think they thought it was a great idea at the beginning

[chrome lake]

if they were to switch to unreal for example they would need to basically write an entire implementation of this at a pretty deep level

[blissful notch]

the people demand Wayne Newton or we riot

[regal carbon]

Maybe they were busy with improving creation into creation 2

Then got busy with starfield

[normal crater]

But when they came down to do it it, they realize it's a bad fit for the type of games they usually do

[chrome lake]

I wouldn't suggest they use unreal either, I wasn't making an argument for it

[warm wyvern]

MR NEW VEGAS

[chrome lake]

I think they should stay in-house with their engine

[blissful notch]

Quick question, was it Moldaver who put the bounty out on the Enclave defector or the BOS?

[chrome lake]

Yeah also that's another gripe I have with the show tbh

Why is the enclave still around on the west coast?

[blissful notch]

I imagine they're laying low in the rockies

[normal crater]

Same reason why BoS is still active on the west coast

[blissful notch]

it makes sense they wouldn't have only 3 strongholds on the entire US, they most likely have scattered outposts and research facilities

[normal crater]

It's an apocalypse, there's plenty of places to hide

[blissful notch]

Hell that's kinda confirmed just by the fact theres an Enclave contingent in Chicago

[chrome lake]

in NV all that was left of the enclave were old men larping about the good ol days. I get you could just handwave this to "they were hiding out" but it comes across on the same level as "somehow palpatine returned"

I just hope there's a really good explanation in season 2

[normal crater]

The ncr is advanced but I doubt their industrial base is good enough to make satellites like the old world yet

[blissful notch]

BOO

[chrome lake]

What am I looking at?

The rocky mountains I get that part

[blissful notch]

map of the rockies, it's theorized thats where that Enclave research station is

[normal crater]

The enclave also have scientific arms, these guys probably didn't get wiped out by the NCR

[blissful notch]

I honestly don't see the issue, a massive government entity would have dozens if not hundreds of stations across the continental US

[small linden]

Just finished it up. Ending was a bit anti-climactic and a little awkward but whole series good for the most part… crazy what happened to the NCR. Though I have crazy doubts that is the end of them.

[blissful notch]

probably some in Canada or in other parts of the world if we're gonna be real

[blissful notch]

yeah it felt like their budget was running thin so they had to wrap up quickly

[small linden]

They’ll get a bigger one for season 2 with the success of season 1, at least I hope that is the case.

[chrome lake]

The remenants quest kind of definitively puts a coffin on the enclave still being around otherwise they'd still have the ability see the other outposts on the holographic interface, unless they were being secret amongst their own organization on other locations

[blissful notch]

I'd say that puts a coffin on the VERY WEST Enclave tbh

[normal crater]

Season 1 is 150 mil

I doubt they will scale up lol

[small linden]

But that series is a lot of fucking canon for one man to digest binge watching.

[blissful notch]

But there's most likely more Enclave contingents laying low

[small linden]

To be fair I can’t complain, all the CGI they used was fucking mint

[normal crater]

The show started shooting in 2021, back when Amazon had loads of money

[blissful notch]

oh for sure, I was so sleep deprived by the end of my binge I had fallen for the "THEY DECANONIZED NEW VEGAS " theory

[small linden]

Hahaha..

[blissful notch]

But I am an optimist

[small linden]

Now just to wait 3-4 more years for the next one.

[blissful notch]

I'd say 2 years

man I might be old enough to have a drink by next season... wild

[small linden]

Very generous.

[small linden]

Sip on some of that Nuka Cola Dark

[blissful notch]

with the lip that pours a quarter of the bottle on your countertop

[sturdy bone]

They used more practical effects than CGI for everything but landscape shots

[small linden]

The mister handy was the one I was looking at

[blissful notch]

Mr Handy was a mix of practical and CGI

[sturdy bone]

Practical effects. It's real

[proper quest]

i wonder how many NCR stans gauged their eyes out after seeing the show 🤔

[small linden]

Is it?

[normal crater]

The wasteland animals are some of the best fictional creatures CGI I have watched though

[chrome lake]

Issue is, why would they not flee to where the enclave still exists?

[blissful notch]

They did the Doc Ock treatment and used puppet arms

[small linden]

I am going to re-watch this series 8 times over.

[blissful notch]

Would you want to risk being caught and executed as defectors like the rest of your kinsmen or lay low in a place you already know is safe?

[chrome lake]

It wasn't safe though

[proper quest]

am i the only one who thinks that Brotherhood of Steel was [OVERPOWERED] in the show

[blissful notch]

I'm referring to the outpost from the show

[chrome lake]

the safer option while you're still undetected would be to flee to your own territory

[blissful notch]

And also they had assumed Navarro would be safe

nobody knows they're safe for sure in Fallout

[chrome lake]

that's besides the point

I really think the enclave should just stay dead and buried, along with the brotherhood. But Beth needs both for their branding.

I just feel these attempts to write them back into the lore are incredibly ham fisted

[blissful notch]

To each their own opinion I suppose

[chrome lake]

The Remnants quest was a really good send off for the enclave as a faction

[normal crater]

Enclave is debatable but BoS will never die

The further into the timeline, the more radical and culty they'll get

[blissful notch]

BOS actually doesn't come from nowhere too, their growth is written out especially in a lot of terminals people don't bother to check

[normal crater]

I doubt they even have the same emotional connection to old world like Maxson had

[blissful notch]

My question is how did the Maxson bloodline spread East?

That is my only gripe with BOS lore

[normal crater]

All that's left is their worship of technology and the feeling of superiority by hiding behind the armors

[chrome lake]

Bethesda's explanation is "the east coast brotherhood came and helped :)" which also makes little sense considering the thousand miles long radioactive dust bowls ripping through the midwest making travel nearly impossible

[regal carbon]

they BOS have done it several times before

[blissful notch]

go around it through canada.

[regal carbon]

and on foot none the less

[chrome lake]

This was from a non-canon game

like, definitively non-canon

[regal carbon]

yeah 3 is non canon

[chrome lake]

outside of a few things

[regal carbon]

same with 76

[chrome lake]

I'm talking about tactics

[blissful notch]

Also it's more complex than that but judging from your previous statements regarding Bethesda Fallout merch you don't really care too much

[regal carbon]

but the fallout 3 guys walked across the watseland on foot

[chrome lake]

Or we could just have a discussion and you not be bad-faith?

[regal carbon]

same with the 76 BOS

its very much possible

and having a airship likely makes the trip easier

[blissful notch]

If you're willing then I shall, my apologies.

[chrome lake]

the reason I don't get Fallout 3/4/76 merch is because I like the classic games and their aesthetic. I actually bought the 76 pipboy because it fit that aesthetic, and most of the merch I do have is actually from 3/4/76 but it's stuff that still fits the classic games

[regal carbon]

hell is it even canon that massive radiative dust bowls happen

[chrome lake]

I have a bobblehead I repainted the back to say 13

[blissful notch]

Ah ok that's fair

Pip Boy 2000 MK VI is my favorite and seeing it in the show kinda threw me for a loop

[normal crater]

Damn that's a lot of dedication

[chrome lake]

Vault 13 is just more icomnic to me

I really don't see why I need Fallout 4 merch on my shelf to be in a civil lore discussion

[blissful notch]

But the East Coast chapters growing their influence spreads back to like 76, which shows how they lose connection to their old ways due to personal beliefs and differences and then gradually they begin to rediscover their old ways through the Outcasts and eventually Arthur Maxson reunites the Outcasts and even manages to make contact with the West.

My point is the East Coast did have an entire arc regarding their history

[chrome lake]

You're making it seem like I'm in enemy territory just because I'm not a big fan of the bethesda titles

[blissful notch]

I apologize for that, it's just the way you phrased it made it sound as if you had a dislike of the Bethesda games in their entirety

[chrome lake]

Oh I do

[blissful notch]

I didn't-

[chrome lake]

but less so assuming the two canons are seperate

[regal carbon]

hell it seems like the east coast fits more in line with rogers views of the BOS

then the west which is kinda funny

[blissful notch]

Again, my only gripe with the BOS is HOW THE FUCK WAS ARTHUR A MAXSON

cause Lyons didn't have contact with the West and the Appalachia contingent didn't have a Maxson in their ranks iirc

[gray mason]

because he is the son of max

[chrome lake]

I think Bethesda has a fundamental misunderstanding of the setting in general, their version of fallout is really far from what I fell in love with. There are instances where I get a glimpse of it though. There are things I can praise 3/4 for

[regal carbon]

arthur was sent from the east

[blissful notch]

ok chandler bing (god rest his soul)

[chrome lake]

I really liked the Pitt for instance

[blissful notch]

I know this, but my main point is how was he conceived if Lyons had no contact with the West and no Maxsons came to the East

[chrome lake]

Also the general object design in Fallout 4 was very good

some stuff almost seemed like they were pulled straight out of the renders used for Fallout 1 and 2

[blissful notch]

I enjoy the Nuka Cola bottles for brand recognition ngl but it's not as likeable considering they had normal coke bottles for the longest time

[chrome lake]

actually ripped them and converted them to replace their counterpart models in NV as a personal mod jsut because I liked some of them so much

[chrome lake]

I also liked the FO4 nuka cola battles

there's a mod that replaces the ones in NV with that design and I love it

[blissful notch]

Yeah my TTW wabbajack has it, shame my food animation mods don't use it though

[chrome lake]

like, there's certainly things here and there I like about the bethesda fallouts but as a whole it really feels like they don't understand the setting. It'd be one thing if there was a genuine effort(which it felt like there was with 3 even if it was still misguided). But they're pretty dismissive about it when brought up.

they kind of treat it with this "it's a video game who gives a shit" attitude

[blissful notch]

Yeah 3 had a more gritty/destroyed setting than 4 which was more akin to the aesthetic of the classics

I prefer it to be completely honest but I also enjoy how 4 looks with their sci-fi aesthetic

[regal carbon]

this was before he lost contact

as lyons was still well respected when they send arthur

[blissful notch]

The way I look at it all the Fallout games are wonderful in their own ways regarding aesthetic and gameplay regardless of continuity even though it is a tad annoying

[chrome lake]

I think I'd enjoy them more if it was just it's own IP. The heavy 50s theme really wasn't that big of an aspect of the originals. I think if they made their own version of the same concept I would enjoy it more.

My main gripe gameplay-wise is how they're not really roleplaying games.

[regal carbon]

and was still doing his job ordered by the east

[chrome lake]

3 was to a better extent but it was still incredibly shallow compared to 2 and NV

much of the choices being binary good vs cartoonishly evil

[blissful notch]

Oh yeah 4 was just god awful when it came to RPG elements

but 76 made up for it slightly, still has a way to go

[regal carbon]

tbh in 1 and 2 there was clear this with hey thats evil and thats good tbh

[blissful notch]

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about F4NV?

[regal carbon]

if it isnt a buggy unfinished mess they failed

[blissful notch]

They released an april fools video with the doc mitchell headspin glitch lol

[chrome lake]

most people see "RPG" and assume it means a numerical progression/level up system and "numbers come out of enemies heads when you shoot them"

[regal carbon]

perfect

[chrome lake]

Like Fallout as a series before bethesda was some of the best examples of what a roleplaying game actually is, I'd go so far as to call them the gold standard

JRPGs really muddied the public understanding of the genre

[blissful notch]

But yeah I don't see too much of Fallout in a negative light apart from the glorified mobile game that is Brotherhood of Steel

[blissful notch]

Agreed, but if I'll be frank I mostly played through the games for a love of the lore rather than wanting to play RPGs

Like I tried playing Elder Scrolls a few times but never had any drive cause I didn't enjoy the lore

[regal carbon]

just skip the other two fallouts

and just focus on the first 2 they made

[normal crater]

Yeah i don't get why people like that series so much

[blissful notch]

I ought to try playing Wasteland one of these days tbh

[blissful notch]

Fantasy settings just aren't for everyone 🤷

[chrome lake]

It has potential, one thing I really like about 4 is how tightly it's system design is in general. It has much better gunplay and gameplay loops in general compared to NV.
Things like the weapon modding system and power armor being treated as mech suits, the robot crafting from automaton.
But also generally from a mechanics standpoint 4 has this sort of clockwork approach to it's gameplay loop that I can't really put briefly into words.
So to have all of that PLUS the branching narrative, player agency, roleplaying freedom and good writing NV is the best of both worlds.

I do have reservations about them wanting to forego the DLCs and apparently they aren't designing it to work with normal FO4 mods, which is unfortunate because one of the reasons I was excited for it was to be able to play it using Fallout 4 VR

[blissful notch]

I enjoy series that are grounded in reality

[chrome lake]

they're also gutting the settlement building which is kind of a shame

[regal carbon]

fantasy is a very popular thing

[normal crater]

Nah I think fantasy is actually more popular than sci fi lol

[chrome lake]

Like I get it wasn't in Nv but it was one of my favorite features of 4

[blissful notch]

I imagine they'll work on DLCs as time goes on and the community surrounding F4NV will create their own mods/patches and treat it as a game in it's own right

[normal crater]

The most famous space "sci fi", star wars, has more in common with fantasy than anything close to science fiction

[blissful notch]

so you might get F4NV VR after all

[regal carbon]

hell you could improve the lucky 38 penthouse buy system with the settlement system

[blissful notch]

they confirmed player homes will be treated as places like Home Plate

[regal carbon]

i rather take that over that weird ass thing

[normal crater]

I mean it doesn't make much sense anyway

[chrome lake]

This is like saying you can't call bethesda's Fallouts open world games because they made Fallout shelter. You understand the spirit of what I was trying to say and choose to ignore it by technicality

[regal carbon]

like you gotta click buy then exit out of the terminal

[chrome lake]

Fallout was known for Fallout 1 and 2, not it's spinoffs

[normal crater]

Mojave is a controlled territory

It's not a lawless wasteland

[regal carbon]

it literally is one

there is barely any laws outside settlements

[chrome lake]

oh I'm aware it doesn't fit, I still just want it to be a toggleable option not gutted entirely because it's fun to play around with

[regal carbon]

its the wild west

[chrome lake]

he asked my opinion and I was giving it

[regal carbon]

oh imagine rebuilding searchlight with the settlement system

[normal crater]

Tbf that's more of a nature of the desert

[regal carbon]

or nipton

[blissful notch]

I'mma hit the hay, once again I apologize electro I shouldn't be a dick like I was and it was pretty inexcusable

[normal crater]

You can gut someone in sahara too and no one will know

[regal carbon]

like the addition of the settlement system would go bounds to improving that mods

[chrome lake]

no it's fine but sometimes it does feel like I'm in hostile territory here because I'm an OG fallout fan

[blissful notch]

hey new weekend plans found :D

[regal carbon]

also we should move to fallout general

[blissful notch]

oh yeah this is episode 8 chat

[regal carbon]

this is very off topic for this channel

[normal crater]

I think the topic derailed 300 messages ago lol

[regal carbon]

yeah

[blissful notch]

topic for anyone coming in here after this discussion: would you poke Cooper's nose hole

[chrome lake]

Well, discussions naturally change, it is what it is.

[sage smelt]

literally me rn

[regal carbon]

indeed tho this is for the tv show

[blissful notch]

well would you?

[regal carbon]

so i like fatass sinclair

[normal crater]

Hmm do ghouls get itchy from all the open holes on their body

[regal carbon]

i think it kinda fits with his character

[chrome lake]

Okay here's a show related question: Why was Sinclair representing Big MT?

[normal crater]

I doubt cooper would be too happy with a bunch of sands in his lungs

[regal carbon]

likely bethesda changed lore a bit

every new addtion does

but everyone else is unchanged

[normal crater]

Probably an investor

[chrome lake]

Well, Mr House was definitely changed

[regal carbon]

like for repconn that person is there CFO in lore

[normal crater]

He could have been a majority shareholder

[blissful notch]

it would appear he was not big boned

[regal carbon]

no

[chrome lake]

If he knew when the bombs would drop why were his plans with the platinum chip thwarted?

[regal carbon]

200 years and losing flesh kinda does that

[blissful notch]

House was very dismissive of Vault-Tec and was kind of cocky in his discussion

I'd say it fit his character well considering his plans

[regal carbon]

because he likely didnt know when the bombs would actually drop

[normal crater]

Vault tec said they would drop it if the governments didn't

[regal carbon]

like vault tec likely fucked up the peace deals

[normal crater]

But it appears that vault tec didn't drop or directly do it

[blissful notch]

Ah so apparently Sinclair is mentioned in Big MT numerous times as he created a lot of tech for them

[regal carbon]

his place was basically a testing grounds

[chrome lake]

He was literally involved in the plot to control when the apocalypse started under vault tecs control

[blissful notch]

So he was effectively their spokesperson

[regal carbon]

also that west tek guy is mentioned in 1 and 3

he was the head FEV researcher at marposia

[blissful notch]

Wonder if Maxson domed him

[regal carbon]

cant predict when the Chinese would launch nukes

[regal carbon]

roger very much did he was the last researcher to get shot

[blissful notch]

rahhhh

[chrome lake]

I really, REALLY hope this is the case, that vault-tec just planned to but didn't actually. Entirely glossing over the entire core theme about war being inevitable but neccesary and replacing it with "lol jk capitalism bad" really sucked. That's my main gripe about the show's writing honestly.

[regal carbon]

like he had it close

vault tec likely fucked up the peace deals

and fucking up peace deals doesnt really give you and this is happening at this date and this time we will be dropping bombs

[blissful notch]

tbh War being inevitable and capitalism being bad are the core themes in of themselves, however both must be shown equally

[regal carbon]

hell vault tec would have lost millions if the war ended

[blissful notch]

And I think the show struck the balance between unchecked corporations running amok and war being an inevitable factor of humanity really well between Cooper and his wife

[regal carbon]

and if the war didnt end in nuclear war how would house take vegas

and he would also lose money if it finished peacefully

everyone at that meeting would have lost money if that war ended peacefully

gotta love capitalism

[blissful notch]

I feel like what Vault-Tec was implying was moreso saying "Hey we have a lot of money, how 'bout we lobby the government to keep this war going until a nuclear escalation is reached?"

The "We drop the bomb ourselves" is more a metaphorical thing

[regal carbon]

basically my vault tec fucked up the peace talks idea

[chrome lake]

not really, fallout's message was never substantially about capitalism. If anything capitalism brought the solution but the war machine was already going and it didn't matter in the end that we were on the cusp of nearly limitless energy and fucking replicators because the military industrial complex needed to be fed.
There were evil corporations but they were all government sanctioned monopolies.

Mr House's character had an anti-capitalist message I suppose

it just wasn't a main focus really

[regal carbon]

anti-capitalist capitalist message

now go pay the 50% operating fee glory to house

[chrome lake]

Based on his dialogue House's politics were of the singaporean economic model

[blissful notch]

I dunno what I'm trying to say so I'mma just say something something corporations government hand in hand

I'm going away x2

[regal carbon]

house is more its 1984

just with words pretending it aint

also a 50% operating fee

tbh this has yet again gone off the rails into fallout general stuff

[chrome lake]

I... what?

okay anyway, I'm suprised they used the classic 10mm pistol design in the show

[regal carbon]

indeed very nice

[chrome lake]

though, they fired more than 6 shots

[regal carbon]

they even used a modified one for the PA guys

[chrome lake]

which IS accurate, it took 12 shots in the original games

but physically it makes zero sense

Fallout 1 and 2 also say it's semi-automatic

[regal carbon]

its a mag fed revolver

[chrome lake]

in fallout 4 the revolver cylinder isn't atually a revolver cylinder it's part of the gas system

the creation club one I mean

[regal carbon]

its weird interplay made it weird

[chrome lake]

really like this redesign

[regal carbon]

i dont

[chrome lake]

it's a nice balance

[regal carbon]

i like the fallout 4 redesign

well the CC one

[chrome lake]

I like that one as well

so much so I ripped it and used it in NV lol

[regal carbon]

based

[chrome lake]

I think the one in the show also uses a magazine, I could be mistaken

[regal carbon]

i hope they show a fallout 3 10mm in the next season

[regal carbon]

well it is afterall a mag fed revolver

[chrome lake]

yeah it just doesn't make sense lol

[regal carbon]

interplay moment

[chrome lake]

I really want to see the classic laser rifle in the next season

[gray mason]

i need to see the fat man

[gray mason]

oh yeah fallout one

[regal carbon]

i want to see a service rifle

we did get to see a laser musket which is rad

[gray mason]

strange that ncr wasnt equipped with them

[proper quest]

i wish they had their NV khaki uniforms in the show with pith helmets

[regal carbon]

my guess they needed for firepower then the service rifles could provide so they swaped to like BARs and lmgs

[gray mason]

fair enough ig

but then why werent there heavy ncr troopers

[regal carbon]

and well its been a few years since the ncr in the region fell so armour wouldnt look as great

[gray mason]

with fake power armour

[proper quest]

did you notice the soviet RPD?

[regal carbon]

PA is costly to repair

[proper quest]

i wonder how it got there

[regal carbon]

yup i did

[gray mason]

thats why its fake, its literally salvaged and doesnt need training

[regal carbon]

likely chinese spies

[regal carbon]

you still gotta repair the metal also its a desert

not many people want to carry that around

[proper quest]

isnt it well established in the lore that the Gun Runners actually replicate the XX century guns and artillery?

[chrome lake]

would also like to see the classic super sledge

[gray mason]

just pick up a fan or smth and craft it into power armour like in fallout 4

[chrome lake]

plasma defender and plasma caster would also be cool

idk why they didn't have the brotherhood using laser/gauss weapons in the show

[proper quest]

.

[regal carbon]

they can

[chrome lake]

they do

kinda disappointing actually going into the gunrunners HQ and they have no industrial machinery, even though lathes and CNC machines have models in-game but they're only used in Sloan for some reason.

would be cool to see a gun runners caravan in the show

[regal carbon]

the gun runners might have stopped running

[gray mason]

run and gunners

[hexed cosmos]

Me in Fallout 4: Run Gunners

[small linden]

I don't see how anyone thinks they are "writing off" new vegas in the show or not representing it well enough

[chrome lake]

do you want an actual answer to this?

[small linden]

Yes, Tell me.

[chrome lake]

In the show the NCR was destroyed 4 years before the events of NV, this is supported by the chalkboard, library cards in one of the endings, and Maximus' general age and things he verbally stated.

It seems like more of an oversight though, not intentional

Also Shady Sands was completely 100% retconned entirely, there's no plausible deniability on that one. They either changed the lore intentionally or massively fucked up on that one

[small linden]

Eh, I think that it is just not explained well enough

[chrome lake]

no it's 100% a massive MASSIVE retcon

I will go down the list

for starters, by the time of Fallout 2 it was no longer called Shady Sands, it was just known as "New California Republic"

no one actually refers to it as Shady Sands in NV wither outside of like one mention I think where they talk about it's original name

then they call the boneyard 'LA'

Then Shady sands is IN LA

which isn't just a minor "oh who cares close enough"

it is literally 300+ miles away from it's actual location, which the location and it's surroundings is relevent to plot points in 1 and 2

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_California_Republic_(town)

[small linden]

Huh. That's interesting.

[chrome lake]

All of the attempts to go through mental gymnastics to explain the NV retcon are shakey at best and they're banning anyone on the subreddit that tries to argue against the current narrative that it's not retconned

It might not be retconned, I firmly believe it's straight up an oversight

but the community response of going panic mode about it is funny

First stage is always denial

[small linden]

I'd think it is an oversight. And overall I wouldn't think it is a HUGE deal, but yeah definitely an oversight UNLESS it is something intentional but I have doubts on that.

[chrome lake]

oh it is a huge deal, it means NV can literally not fit into Bethesda's new continuity

[small linden]

Though overall even if they did get anything wrong, they still have enough flexibility to change some things or explain them better.

[chrome lake]

if you don't think that's a big deal then idk what to tell you

[chrome lake]

uh, no definitely not

they have entire scenes of shady sands being in LA

they can't really fix that one

that part of 1/2/NV is definitely just permanently written out of the canon going forward

[small linden]

Yeah, but if I have to be 100% fair with you. Every game of the series has retcons.

So, the tv series having them, not surprised.

[chrome lake]

What did NV retcon?

There is kind of an answer to this by the way but I'm curious what your response is

[small linden]

I don't know because I don't remember NV well, I haven't played it in a long while

On THAT topic

I should play NV again

[chrome lake]

Camp Searchlight is KIND of a retcon

also kind of not at the same time

but also kind of is now because of the TV show

it's really complicated

[small linden]

Also why is it in every fallout game the main character always has to fucking find somebody

like now in the show

[gray mason]

todd likes it idk

[small linden]

"gotta find my dad"

Fallout 4

"gotta find my son"

NV "Gotta find who shot me in the face"

[gray mason]

gotta find my dad
gotta find my son
gotta find the overseer
gotta find my dad

[small linden]

Yeah.

[gray mason]

gotta find the water control chip
gotta find the geck
gotta find this handsome man named benny

[chrome lake]

There was an argument between Tim Cain, Chris Avellone and others on the nature of ghouls. On wether they're from the FEV+radiation or just radiation alone. NV put a definitive answer to that with Camp Searchlight. But then the show decided to make it FEV again. Which I actually prefer it being FEV so I don't mind it

but that's the closes thing to a retcon NV has

and it isn't really a retcon

Mind you Nv was made by the creators of 1 and 2, not Bethesda

[small linden]

I think the only fallout game exempt from this is fucking Fallout Shelter but even in that "game" you are trying to find shit (actively and constantly), just nothing specific.

[small linden]

Yeah that's true.

[chrome lake]

Also the timeline for EDE's origins are kind of iffy

Those are the only two things NV kinda messed up lore wise, and even then it's less of a fuck up and more of a "we're giving a definitive answer to the ghoul question"

the EDE thing is the only tie-in to the east coast fallouts which is where that problem arises

the only issue with that is that 1, 2, NV might be their own continuity now

which I am personally hoping for honestly

It would fix like 90% of the inconsistancies with Bethesda's fallouts and make both groups happy

Before the show there was a happy medium where the West coast classic fallouts and Bethesda's east coast fallouts could each be safely be ignored. Most people who played Bethedas fallouts never played the originals and most people who are fans of the originals don't like Bethesda's fallouts. But now the show, which is definitely in bethesda's side of the field is taking place on the west coast which really threw off this balance. Now large parts of the original games canon were retconned and NV is written out of the canon entirely unless they address it.

considering this is what modern Fallout fans generally think of the classic fallouts I really think they should just be separate continuities and Bethesda's fallouts just be a soft reboot and we can all move on separately and enjoy what we enjoy without one or the other side dragging down the lore of the other

And then bethesda has a clean slate to do whatever they want without worrying about the original lore, which they already don't seem to care about. It's a win for both sides as far as I'm concerned. It almost entirely solves the sequel baggage problem Bethesda has with the series.

And if you like both? More power to you, now you get TWO delicious cakes instead of one!

[shrewd jay]

i just finished the show. it was fun and i enjoyed it, but all the weird changes and the outright hatred of the NCR made it a bit hard to enjoy it fully. normally i wouldn't care much and just enjoy it for what it is, but bethesda trying to shoehorn it into canon is absolutely absurd

[timid marsh]

Am i tripping or is that final Hank part heading to the NV town?

[hexed cosmos]

goodsprings?

[timid marsh]

I think

Because of the tower

No not goodsprings

[hexed cosmos]

Thats New Vegas

[timid marsh]

Or is it

[shrewd jay]

it's definitely the strip where house is. no doubt he's going to be a main villain later 🙄

[timid marsh]

Im confused rn

[hexed cosmos]

The region is named the Mojave

[timid marsh]

The town where Hank is heading in the end

With that big tower

[shrewd jay]

the tower is the lucky 38

[timid marsh]

It reminds me of a New Vegas POI

YES LUCKY 38

Thanks!

[shrewd jay]

love me some new vegas. not very happy with what the show is doing with all that

[hexed cosmos]

I wonder if maybe they couldn't afford to do a season in a normal new Vegas so they made it a ruin

[timid marsh]

Wdym? I loved the show

[shrewd jay]

i have no idea. it almost seems malicious the way they utterly dismantled the NCR

[timid marsh]

Don’t get me wrong tho NV my fav but i think the series fits the lore better because of vaults involvement

What i just don’t get is why do they talk so much about s*x with relatives like c’mon

[hexed cosmos]

I mean maybe they're dismantling big cities because they can't make huge accurate sets

At least without eating so much in their cg budget which they need

[whole drum]

Something I haven't seen people comment on.

The show didn't start with a War Never Changes quote.

This isn't fallout the TV show. Only the real fallout TV show would start with war never changes

There's no way Bethesda ruined their streak of 2 games starting with War Never Changes. That's just blasphemy.

[regal carbon]

I don't think the show had Ron pearlman

So even less of a fallout show

[native skiff]

it ended on it tho

[lilac osprey]

Fuck yeah NEW VEGASSS BABY

[glass hill]

Did the finale officially canonize who dropped the bombs first?

[meager swallow]

If season 2 doesn't show the NCR as still existing, just weakened and retreated from Southern California I feel like I'm done with Bethesda Fallout

[glass hill]

I’m a bit confused on that part

[meager swallow]

FO4 did

[glass hill]

Yeah that’s what I’m confused about lol

The scene with the roundtable of corporate executives kinda suggested it was VaultTec

[meager swallow]

Maybe the most was they leaked to the Chinese that the US was going to strike first or something, but everything else contradicts them actually launching the first bombs

[fluid basin]

I mean vault tec dont have to directly launch the nukes, they can just set the condtions for making the world more deprsate enough to launch nukes.

[meager swallow]

Sure but the question was "who dropped the bombs first?", the only answer there is the Chinese

[native skiff]

it’s confirmed that vault tec either caused it or caused china to drop the nuke by paying government officials to break off contracts and raise conflicts further

[meager swallow]

Maybe VT/Enclave pushed the US Army to invade mainland China in contradiction of supposedly fighting a defensive war. But the responsibility of igniting the Great War still rests with the Chinese

[native skiff]

the only reason i think vault tec actually nuked america is because clearly they have nukes if they can blow up shady sands

[meager swallow]

VT built the storage facilities and silos for the US' ICBM arsenal

[native skiff]

so they must also have access to them

i mean if we go off of fallout 76 and that the vaults mission was to acquire the nukes of appalachia then they must have other nukes

also cause the bomb in megaton had the vault tec logo on it

[sturdy bone]

No it doesn't. Vault tec would have only needed to launch one nuke to Ensure M.A.D. goes off

[hexed cosmos]

Cause you can't have shit in Detroit

[small linden]

was p happy building my own factions in the games but im a hoe for public transport and after seeing the streetcar in the ncr im fully team ncr

cant forgive how they did my streetcars , hate vault tec fr

[hardy tundra]

Ok I lost my mind when I saw the ending my god

[small linden]

bro longest 20 minutes of my life