Anti aggro unit

[inner pine]

I'm really trying to come up with something balanced:

1k, infantry. (3/3) 0op. Limited. British.
Blitz. Guard.
When destroyed, suppressed, or in frontline, become veteran instead.

Veteran:
(2/3) 3op.
Retreat at the start of your turn.

Essentially this is a cheap defensive infantry that will be defanged and start retreating back to your hand where it can be reused unless the enemy wants to try and kill it again. It can also be used aggressively to attack the attackers.

I think this would fit best with British guard and veteran synergy. (Oh and it could also synergize with retreat synergy if that still existed.)

Other cards:

USA:
2k, Bomber. (3-1) 2op.
Heavy armor 1.
Show on draw: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy unit in the frontline plus 1 for each bomber you control"
(Credit to JohnathanDJ.)

Ok I'll set that as the British anti-aggro card. I'm going to come up with one for every nation except japan.

[covert oasis]

This would be nuts

[inner pine]

Soviet

1k, artillery. (1/2) 1op. Standard.
When an enemy attacks your HQ, deal 1 damage to them.

Cheap artillery that can wear down aggro if it isn't dealt with.

USA
3k, Bomber. (3-1) 2op. Standard.
Heavy armor 1.
Show on draw: Deal (4 - Enemy cost) to a unit.

The ability is targeted. If cheap enemies are attacking you, this unit can deal up to 4 damage to them. Later on you can deploy it as a cheap bomber.

Germany
2k, order. Limited.
Deal damage to the frontline equal to units 7k or more in your hand.

More German removal. This one however, synergizes with ramp decks or big German tanks.

[covert oasis]

Absolutely slaughters aggro

[inner pine]

But it isn't unbeatable. Its main advantage over other cards is that it can be reused if the enemy doesn't dedicate extra resources to getting rid of it. It can still be converted out of the way or just removed.

[covert oasis]

You go second into aggro. He plays kholm, you respond with the British thing and trade it out. He drops another unit and you trade it out again. Two free trades for 1k

And then you get another one

[inner pine]

2 cards down 18 more cheap aggro units to go.

[covert oasis]

Yeah, and this thing trades them down so efficiently

You’d run it as a 3 of without the dupe part, with it it’s nutty

[inner pine]

Thats the point. They can probably still overwhelm it since it can go for only one at a time.

[covert oasis]

1k, trade out 2 aggro units is such an insane rate

It should at least be 1op

[inner pine]

But there will almost always be at least two aggro units.

Most likely more.

[covert oasis]

Yeah, and if you can kill half of them, on top of the other Brit things you’ll just win

It hardcounters aggro insanely well, and is good into any deck that wants the frontline

[inner pine]

It can't hold the frontline. It switches to veteran and retreats. It physically cannot reach anything in the enemy support line and spending 3k every turn to maintain the frontline with a cheap infantry you don't really want dead is pretty expensive.

[covert oasis]

You don’t maintain the frontline, it has guard, you don’t need to

[inner pine]

Not as a veteran.

[covert oasis]

Yeah, and when it dies, it goes back to hand an resets to a 3/3 guard

[inner pine]

No. It doesn't automatically return to hand as its original. It HAS to retreat back into hand. Its vulnerable in its veteran form. Kill it once and it can't attack. Kill it twice and its gone.

[covert oasis]

Oh no, I got 4 aggro units for 1k, how terrible

And I can play another two

[inner pine]

Assuming you've drawn them. You also seem to have misunderstood the stats. It is designed to be able to oneshot all 2k or less aggro units, which have a max of 3 defense. With its own defense it can take two maximum, assuming that the enemy doesn't use an order on it. Then it goes veteran and you need to spend another 1k to use it again.

Its efficient, but not as efficient as you seem to think it is.

[covert oasis]

I think if it was 1op and didn’t have blitz it’d still be really strong, but not as insane

That’d be a more fair version

[inner pine]

Being able to kill two-three aggro units for 1-2k is not unbalanced. The blitz gives it sufficient reaction time not to just be immediately destroyed by all the removal aggro decks typically have and the 0op also gives it the reaction time to fight aggro.

If this seems like it might stop an aggro deck, that is the entire point. Just like most aggro decks can completely counter or be difficult for anything that isn't aggro or some meta deck to overcome, this unit is meant to be difficult for aggro to overcome, discouraging aggro decks and encouraging players to use something else thats a bit more creative than just rush and make the game less fun for the majority of potential decks.

Just because its hard (NOT IMPOSSIBLE) for aggro to deal with, doesn't mean it should be immidately nerfed, because by that logic most aggro should be nerfed right now for the difficulty many other decks have with dealing with it.

Don't forget that it being a 1k means that it can be defeated easily by cards like rout.

Oh and funnily enough because of how it works, that French 0k technically defeats it.

!france 0k

[copper ridge]

Cards found: 3

[inner pine]

Yea chasing shadows will neutralize it.

[covert oasis]

A 1k 3/3 guard would already be really effective at slowing down aggro dramatically. I don’t think 1 1k unit should completely stonewall aggro

!france 3/3 guard

[copper ridge]

Cards found: 2

[covert oasis]

The 152 is a 1k 3/3 with downside, this is a 1k 3/3 with immense upside

[inner pine]

It doesn't completely stonewall. It's particularly good at killing cheap aggro units.

Also you don't understand what the 152 is for. Its not for stopping aggro, its for being a cheap unit to trigger 3op effects.

[covert oasis]

3/3 is a 2k stat line at least

[inner pine]

Its designed to kill aggro units in the 2k range so it outperforms them. Its downside is it can't be offensive and attack the enemy support line.

You are missing the point and getting hyperfocused on trying to protect an already good archetype from having something that decently fights it.

[covert oasis]

I’m not saying this shouldn’t be a strong anti-aggro card, I’m saying it’s too strong

[inner pine]

You seem to be arguing like if the unit can make an aggro deck lose, which it would have difficulty doing on its own, it can't win.

[covert oasis]

As I said, 1k 3/3 limited guard would be good enough as is

[inner pine]

Oh so how many units should it be able to kill? The main threat of aggro is swarming at a time when very few countries have a good counter except for the aggro countries, which counterswarm.

Is 2-3 for 1-2k THAT unreasonable?!

If it was just a 3/3 guard then it would simply be removed from the board like most cards, and it wouldn't be very unique at all, and it could still be used agressively as an aggro unit.

[covert oasis]

Kholm is kinda busted, but that’s a different conversation

Compare this to 15th Cav, a 1k limited aggro unit

[inner pine]

This is designed to address a specific strength largely unique to aggro decks, not be a hard counter but still be difficult to deal with, and be interesting to use.

@whole plinth

Does this seem unreasonable as an aggro counter?

[covert oasis]

Trading 2 for 1 would already be great, but you made it so that it’ll trade 3 or 4 for 1 if you wanna truly remove it, and 2 for 1 forever if the enemy doesn’t

[whole plinth]

you mean the original post card or the edited through discussion?

[inner pine]

This isn't edited. I have not edited this at all. I'll type out a short description of how it is supposed to function so give me a moment.

[whole plinth]

to be completely honest, unless this 1k 3/3 guard cannot attack, it is quite unbalanced

as it also falls into the aggro pit that has promised to destroy

[inner pine]

It can be deployed on the first turn, but if it becomes veteran it pretty much can't attack because it just retreats and is expensive for just two damage.

Given that it becomes veteran if it enters the frontline, it will not be able to attack anything in the enemy support line and automatically retreat at the start of the next turn. So no it can't really be an aggro unit.

Its main purpose is to pick fights with aggro units that enter the frontline, and if it dies to one of them the enemy has a turn to wipe out the veteran version and take it off the board. If they don't it returns to hand and can be redeployed.

And again, it is resistant only to direct death or suppression, once.

[whole plinth]

technically once if it is in the frontline

[inner pine]

It can still be taken off the board with retreat, convert or just plain removal.

[whole plinth]

though if in the supportline, it will just return to your hand with the base effect

[inner pine]

Sure you could use kangaroo transport or maybe find some other card that could give your 3op 2 damage unit in the frontline the chance to attack.

Would that be worth it compared to any other strategy?

Realistically this might kill 1-3 enemy units of 2k or less before it is removed somehow.

Is that an unbeatable card for aggro decks?

[whole plinth]

nah not for aggro

aggro is not a concern to me

they already have the game in a silver plate by how easy it is to play it

the thing is using it against other decks

and by being a main nation card it is pretty powerful (and technically a powercreep of that 1k 3/3 french guard)

the 152e RÉGIMENT

I'd say that the "If destroyed" effect on its conditional Veteran could be removed

and raise its operation cost

because on itself, you can also just use it as "1k; deal 3 damage to an enemy unit in the frontline"

[inner pine]

I've used that card. I can tell you how it is supposed to be used.

While a quick and cheap guard is useful, the main value is actually the operation cost. If you have a lot of synergy going you can quickly protect your HQ, give it defense, and draw a card.

[inner pine]

I don't think you've mentally used the card against its enemies. If the 'if destroyed' effect is removed. Then it is still just cheaply deal damage to an enemy in the frontline. And it has the side effect of largely ruining its ability to deal with more than one aggro unit since most of them have 2 attack, and then some order that can deal 1 damage.

And through that the card becomes no better than any other guard for its intended purpose only to make it easier to deal with for later game decks that have a lot more options available to them that the card simply can't deal with, such as a bigger unit, convert, or mass chip damage.

The entire reason its blitz and 1op is so that it rushes to the frontline and attacks a unit. That is how it is supposed to fight and how it makes itself a good counter against aggro in that it is an almost guaranteed kill on a 2k or less aggro unit.

If you really want it to be easier to deal with, and I don't think it needs to be, get rid of the attack on the veteran so that it can be attacked freely.

Soviet

1k, artillery. (1/2) 1op. Standard.
When an enemy attacks your HQ, deal 1 damage to them.

Cheap artillery that can wear down aggro if it isn't dealt with.

USA
3k, Bomber. (3-1) 2op. Standard.
Heavy armor 1.
Show on draw: Deal (4 - Enemy cost) to a unit.

The ability is targeted. If cheap enemies are attacking you, this unit can deal up to 4 damage to them. Later on you can deploy it as a cheap bomber.

Germany
2k, order. Limited.
Deal damage to the frontline equal to units 7k or more in your hand.

More German removal. This one however, synergizes with ramp decks or big German tanks.

What about these for Anti-aggro?

I've been convincing myself to make the soviet a 1/1 instead.

[whole plinth]

the soviet one remembers me of my beloved HEINKEL HE 219

[inner pine]

!heinkel HE 219

[copper ridge]

Cards found: 1

[inner pine]

Oh yea that one. I remember using it as a distraction because the enemy didn't like even 1 damage.

[whole plinth]

not sure if the bomber would work like that though, cannot say too much as I have no experiece using covert units

oh wait

[inner pine]

Covert? What? Based upon how they work the bomber almost certainly couldn't attack them.

[whole plinth]

I've read it wrong

nvm lol

still, 0k deal 4 damage to a target uni is a big no

[inner pine]

Its essentially

Can oneshot Kholm because Kholm costs 1k. 4-1=3. Kholm is dead.

[whole plinth]

unless it is deal 2 damage to a random enemy unit, or deal 1-3 (or around that) to a random enemy unit

[inner pine]

!0k unit

[copper ridge]

Cards found: 2

[whole plinth]

it is already pretty toxic with the current brewsters to add an infinite amount of value for free

only by drawing cards

[inner pine]

The only reason it isn't random is because It seemed that it would just be a lot of text.

[whole plinth]

and the german one looks.... pretty tedious not gonna lie, and pretty greedy trap to build with

nah

it won't be a lot of text

those are few words

even if we consider the Heavy armor 1

[inner pine]

I didn't know what else to come up with. But it helps ramp. A little. Honestly I don't know what I'd do with it.

[whole plinth]

show when drawn: gain 1 kredit slot

[inner pine]

Ok I'll try and rework the bomber a bit.

[inner pine]

That isn't anti aggro. This is explicitely meant to fight early game aggro.

[whole plinth]

XD

I know

[inner pine]

Anyways.

[whole plinth]

well

it could say "Show when drawn: Fight target enemy unit. Deployment: Draw a card"

maybe the deployment cannot fit

but the first part could be viable

[inner pine]

USA:
Xk, Bomber. (3-1) 2op.
Heavy armor 1.
Show on draw: Deal 1 damage to a unit in the frontline. 2 if you have a bomber on the battlefield.

X is a placeholder.

Weirdly enough because you can't choose not to use it, it actually discourages you from taking the frontline.

So I'll switch it to random enemy.

USA:
Xk, Bomber. (3-1) 2op.
Heavy armor 1.
Show on draw: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy in the frontline. 2 if you have a bomber on the battlefield.

[whole plinth]

what about

"Deal 1 damage to a random enemy unit in the frontline plus 1 for each bomber you control"?

[inner pine]

So promotes a bomber swarm. Up to 4 damage.

[whole plinth]

9 if we go crazy lol

oh wait

nvm

damn it XD

[inner pine]

USA:
Xk, Bomber. (3-1) 2op.
Heavy armor 1.
*Show on draw: Deal 1 damage to a random enemy unit in the frontline plus 1 for each bomber you control" *

[whole plinth]

first I writte, then I think what I've just written

[inner pine]

Understandable.

[whole plinth]

I'm loving it

[inner pine]

What should it cost?

!us 3k bomber

[whole plinth]

2k

[copper ridge]

Cards found: 3

[whole plinth]

it is really fragile

literally any unit with 2 attack destroys it

or order with 1 damage

and Ja(ggro)pan has plenty of those