Nerf for 15th Cavalry

[mint atlas]

It’s fine

And any changes would cripple jaggro, and therefore japan, immensely

[tough trail]

then it should be cannon

[mint atlas]

Wdym cannon?

15th cav dosen’t need nerfs

[tough trail]

if any slight changes would make the whole nation a crippled playstyle, then there is a huge problem with it if it can't be played another way

if it ends up being crippled then it is as its real counterpart

[mint atlas]

The change you suggested is extremely harsh for jaggro, and I agree that Japan’s dependence on jaggro is not good, but nerfing jaggro into the floor is not the solution. Also, if cards like it don’t exist then the meta will inevitably become “who has the heavyer deck,” which is not healthy for the game as a whole

Also, before you claim bias, Im not a jaggro player at all, and last expansion I even called for 15th cav getting reserved

[tough trail]

wasn't going to claim bias, your point is logical

but not healthy for the game as a whole

literally there were hundres of complaints before mine

not saying "reduce its damage" or "increase its cost"

but something as vital as operation cost

[mint atlas]

About 15th cav? When and by who, I’ve seen none

[tough trail]

as I've said, 15th cavalry is the spine of the sole deck

[mint atlas]

The 0 op cost + blitz is the only reason to run it

[tough trail]

no japan deck does lack of it, if it does is just a prototype

there is another infantry that also has blitz and 0 op, but it is fine as it is as it cost 2

it is more slower to play and not "as" spamable

[mint atlas]

It’s not the spine, but rather an important unit to pressure with, and removing it may slow jaggro down enough for it to not be viable enough to punish really heavy decks

[mint atlas]

There’s one, but teh difference between 1 and 2 cost is almost as big for jaggro as the difference between 1 and 0 op cost

It means half as much units

Which makes it easier to deal with without much early game

Ramp is a big problem rn because it’s got enough answers to decks like jaggro, and nerfing jaggro will increase the problem

[tough trail]

Ramp could be nerfed, and I got a really polemical "fix" to it, as it is practically the pinnacle of decks in any game.

(as it is mainly USA it is basically saying the same thing)

[mint atlas]

My point is that aggro decks are quite necessary for the balance of the game, and nerfing jaggro will make more issues than it could solve

[tough trail]

I mean, aggro decks are good at doing that, not jaggro solely, and as you stated it would be basically Japan as a whole concept

it only exists to do that

it is boring, repetitve and unfair for any other player that plays differently at any other range

[tired elk]

Note that nerfing 15th Cavalry would also make jaggro less budget friendly. Nerfing Type 94 TK Early or 3rd Yokusuka would achieve the same thing

[tough trail]

type 94 tk is fine, it is powerful but balanced enough

!3rd yokusuka

[tepid spindle]

Search language: EN. No cards found...

[tough trail]

mh, can't remember that one

[tired elk]

I can't spell sorry

[tough trail]

that one is also fine

not that crazy

[mint atlas]

I agree that’s a problem, but it having 0 viable decks is significantly worse than having one that’s I your opinion boring

[tired elk]

!3rd y

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[tough trail]

well, there it is

a 0 op cost card that can cripple heavy decks

pairing it with similar cards as 15th would do the work

more so with buffing orders and passive effects from units

[tired elk]

15th Cavalry is inarguably an insane card. The argument against nerfing it is that it's a core strong card that the game is balanced around and is meant to enable strong decks for many players, similar to M4 Sherman, Panzer 35(t) or Convoy HX 175

[tough trail]

but atleast m4 sherman and panzer 35(t) does have a condition to get the most of it, convoy HX 175 is a draw order with relative high cost, not a big deal

this one does everything almost for free

[tired elk]

If a general jaggro Nerf is desired then 15th Cavalry would definitely do the job. So would a nerf to 3rd Yokusuka or Type 94 TK Early as those cards are so similar

[tough trail]

the thing is that those are special, is not that fair

type 93 late in any case could get +1 deployment cost or +1 op cost

to make it equivalent to 35(t) without conditional but with a buff conditional

[mint atlas]

The best nerf for jaggro would be to make type 94 tk a 2k 1/2

[tough trail]

that would be good enough

[mint atlas]

That’s something to consider in the future, but currently there’s no need to nerf jaggro

[tough trail]

never was needed apparently

[mint atlas]

Jaggro has been nerfed substantially across the history of the game

[robust void]

and that unit is bad, and u'd want to make 15th cav worse

[ivory hare]

I'd say give them horses

[safe hill]

This card is no problem whatsoever

Guys, jaggro is the worst deck in the meta. If your deck loses to jaggro, it's not in the meta. I call it The Doorsman.

Very late game decks, who try to play non-interactive strategies that need a lot of kredits, are kept out of the meta by things like Jaggro. Jaggro is also the easiest aggressive deck to control. Literally any air deck will do it.

[stark coral]

Jaggro is countered by everything currently, we should we nerf it?

[deft hawk]

Why not

[deft hawk]

there's definitely not hundreds of good complaints

a lot of archetypes are enabled heavily/rely on single digits worth of cards more than others, it's not 'unhealthy' for that to be the case, it's quite normal

Also also Japanese decks not doing aggro do lack this btw

Ie; mill

[uneven venture]

We want them crippled af.
Every Expansion has f*ed every other archetype. Retreat is useless, Discard? That's so 2019! Combined arms? Barely know that guy. Salvage? One patch, then nerfed into the abyss. The only archetype that ALWAYS gets new tools every expansion is jaggro ...
And with no board clear available for nations like Germany before turn 4 you are already dedge ...

[uneven venture]

What if I don't want to play airdecks? Also, why disable slow playing decks completely by a "doorsman"

[kindred plover]

I think the change is too harsh

[uneven venture]

That's true

[kindred plover]

But something could be done

Like lowering attack by 1 each time it attacks

Or increasing the cost by 1 for each previously played

[kindred plover]

Maybe with a stat increase too

[mint atlas]

If you got literally nothing to slow down jaggro until t4 then it’s probably a deck building issue

[kindred plover]

The reason I hate jaggro is because you basically always have a perfect hand

Even if u run Jaggro counters, it’s nearly impossible to always have them on turn 1-3

[mint atlas]

Jaggro is kinda built to do that

[kindred plover]

Meanwhile as long as they get a single expansion they are good to go

[mint atlas]

Not really, jaggro is very weak to almost any dmg to their units

[kindred plover]

And that’s why I hate it
It’s just the Japans’ 39 best rush cards

[mint atlas]

That applies to all archetypes?

[kindred plover]

Ramp, maybe

But if I wanted to play, let’s say- Brit air there’s at least 3 minor nations that all offer unique advantages and playstyles

Jaggro barely even has allies cards

Usually just 3 buzzbombs

[mint atlas]

That’s just a bad jaggro, it usually has like 10-12 ally cards

[kindred plover]

Which ones?

[stark coral]

Ramp

[kindred plover]

I never see them drop anything besides buzz bomb

[stark coral]

Ger midrange

Heinz

[mint atlas]

Zerstorer, 22., freida, wirbelwind, 35t

That’s off the top of my head

[kindred plover]

I’ve seen the 22.

And the 35t

But definitely not the wirblewind

[mint atlas]

Wirbelwind is kinda expensive and easy to underrate

But I don’t see buzz bomb in decks made by goo, high collection players

Because it’s not good in jaggro

[uneven venture]

No. I got FM with my deck but still struggle against Jaggo, if I don't get a good mulligan. That doesn't necessarily mean I lack the skill to build decks. Going 2nd and not drawing what u need is enough to get reckt by a turn 3 blitzkrieg

[stark coral]

Just play a better deck

[mint atlas]

Jaggro hasn’t run blitzkreig ever unless it’s lacking cards or badly built, but you not being able to consistently beat jaggro dosen’t mean it should be nerfed into the ground

[kindred plover]

Just run all 1k

[stark coral]

Not really

Most decks in current meta answer jaggro really good

[kindred plover]

Nah I need 39 1k cards

[uneven venture]

I never said it has to be nerfed to the ground, it would just be refreshing to get ONE rotation cycle without them so playing slower, bigger decks in casual doesn't make me ragequit after being matched against them 3 times in a row. What's the point of casual even if I wanna play off-meta just to get stomped by them?

[stark coral]

1k only jaggro

[kindred plover]

Nah

None of them have blitz

Actually

Chocolate boys when?

[stark coral]

play off meta
die to deck made to punish off meta and bad deck building choices

Jaggro got massacred in last rotation from power perspective

[uneven venture]

What is the point of playing a deck to punish off-meta if this deck itself ISN'T META!

[stark coral]

They lost their big finisher, their draw and brit air was stronger

[solid pike]

funny cope lol

[mint atlas]

Rn it’s the best time to play slower decks because Brit’s and us have every tool to dunk on jaggro. And if there’s a meta where you can afford to play a bad really slow play then we are fucked

[solid pike]

it's a good card

that's about it

why would anyone want this nerfed

[stark coral]

YOURE ALIVE???

Wassup man

[kindred plover]

Sillies

[solid pike]

just came back to the game lol

[stark coral]

Good jaggro pilot can make the deck extremely strong

[solid pike]

probably a salty ramp player who got deleted by jaggro

and now wants it nerfed

[stark coral]

Current meta is peak

[uneven venture]

I don't wanna play bad decks daheck? But it's hard to judge if 70% of the games to test for potential are against one decktype imo

[stark coral]

9/10

[solid pike]

yeah ik, i run soviet/us midrange tanks now

[stark coral]

Jaggro is on ladder?

[solid pike]

lol

[uneven venture]

Nah

[kindred plover]

Current meta makes me wanna run 3 9th commando 💔

[uneven venture]

Who said that?

[stark coral]

You

Ive seen 0 jaggro on ladder lastly

[uneven venture]

Calling Fake News on that. NEVER have I EVER stated that Jaggro is on ladder.

[stark coral]

.

[uneven venture]

So have I

[solid pike]

i have not seen a single jaggro deck ever since i came back to the game lol

did it get nerfed or something lmfao

[stark coral]

So why are you complaining if the problem doesnt exist

[stark coral]

Shiden

[uneven venture]

I'm struggling to see the word "ladder"

[stark coral]

Shiden got rotated

[stark coral]

I dont think theres a way to play anything off ladder

[kindred plover]

! Caliope

[tepid spindle]

Search language: EN. No cards found...

[stark coral]

[solid pike]

it's joever...

[stark coral]

Yeah

Altho

!an

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 746, refusing to show anything, please make a more precise search request.

[stark coral]

!ann

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[stark coral]

Smol shiden

[uneven venture]

I politely ask you to read the statements I made carefully. I mentioned the Jaggro-flooding of the "casual"-queue

[stark coral]

Who the fuck plays casual and why

No real human being plays casual

[kindred plover]

So I can play garrison friendly fire 🔥

[stark coral]

BRING THAT SHIT TO LADDER

[uneven venture]

Who the fuck asks that question and why?

[solid pike]

i literally do not see what is wrong with jaggro lol

[kindred plover]

It sucks so bad

[solid pike]

it's one of the staple decks in this game ever since the game was released

[stark coral]

Rhetorical question

[kindred plover]

But it’s so funny

[solid pike]

it's not too strong, it's not too weak

and it's not annoying to fight

unlike US/Brit ramp, mill

[kindred plover]

Were u here for shitbata?

[solid pike]

or anything involving britain really

[solid pike]

yeah i was

[uneven venture]

Funny how all try their hardest just because I said I personally hate jaggro lmao

[solid pike]

that was the one exception

afaik

[kindred plover]

Yep

[solid pike]

and even the shibata got nerfed pretty quickly to 1 dmg

[stark coral]

Hate if u want

[kindred plover]

Still hate shitbata

[stark coral]

But jaggro doesnt need nerfs

[solid pike]

valid ngl, the card was annoying

i mained US ramp around that time lol

[kindred plover]

Make expansion 5k 🤑

[uneven venture]

Didn't said they need nerf, just said a rotation without them would be different?

[stark coral]

The thing is

[uneven venture]

You don't care, I know

[stark coral]

We had an expansion without making jaggro better already

IT WAS CALLED BLOOD AND IRON

[solid pike]

nah, you're wrong

[kindred plover]

Blud and irony

[solid pike]

i lose to a deck = that deck is broken and overpowered, NERF NOW

[uneven venture]

The 1K shock didn't buff'em?

[solid pike]

it's as simple as that

[kindred plover]

1k shock is a terrible unit for jaggro

[solid pike]

i lose to jaggro? rotate out type 94, yokosuka, expansion and 15th

[uneven venture]

Didn't say that tho

[solid pike]

shrimple

[stark coral]

Exactly

[solid pike]

wasn't referring to you

specifically

[stark coral]

1op is terrible

[kindred plover]

We need another Japanese archetype

[stark coral]

And it doesnt draw unlike 33rd

[solid pike]

that alone kills aggros tempo early on

xd

[stark coral]

WE HAD SHIDEN OTK

[uneven venture]

1000% agreed. Japan really lacks on that part

[stark coral]

AND THEY FUCKING ROTATED SHIDEN

[kindred plover]

Pls no

[stark coral]

Fuck shiden OTK

[kindred plover]

No like gamba

[stark coral]

Bring BoF back

[solid pike]

Tsuruga OTK:

[stark coral]

[solid pike]

😭

[uneven venture]

Poor boy

[stark coral]

!burst of fire

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[stark coral]

[uneven venture]

But you still can play Classic mode, you know

[solid pike]

buff tsuruga OTK

[kindred plover]

The only fun I’ve had from another Japanese deck is smokescreen

[solid pike]

20 turns of setup and 12k cost to set up

national fire service

[kindred plover]

Cus 2 outmaneuvers on a chi-to is so goofy

Get a 10-8 0 op for 6k total

[stark coral]

No thanks

[stark coral]

Let me to introduce you to

!type 92

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 2

[kindred plover]

Iron from the north:

That thing is hot ass

Even with German Breakthough it sucks

[stark coral]

What

Iron from the north is broken

[kindred plover]

That’s why I don’t touch classic

Type 92 is ‘let’s play 3k for a 2-2’

Or it sits and does nothing until turn 4

[stark coral]

DUH

I meant

The tank

WITH 2X OUTMANUEVER ON T2

Not the arty

[kindred plover]

Then just use the acida ngl

The chances of drawing 2 outmaneuver on T2 is so low

Plus it doesn’t even clear it from Command failure, Commit the Reserved or Hammer

[stark coral]

Welcome to highroll

[kindred plover]

Imagine No .9 commando

Greatest worst unit that’s ever lived

[mint atlas]

Not compared to what they lost

[mint atlas]

I love that little guy

[kindred plover]

I run him in shock decks

Reusable instakill order

[mint atlas]

I run him in almost every Brit deck because he’s very flexible

[knotty girder]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-heeler-ohana-erm-glance-gif-10161514673346882721

[deft hawk]

That's not true and also there should be a staple archetype lol

[foggy bear]

15th Cav is a fine core piece of Jaggro
It sets the baseline as a good 1 drop and nerfing it would hurt the aggro deck quite a bit
It's not like say the Tk 94 Early that snowballs out of control

[deft hawk]

Having a staple deck means new players or returning players can invest into a deck that isnt likely to be irrelevant

[foggy bear]

It's just a solid aggro piece

[deft hawk]

No, it literally does, esp because jaggro is bad rn

[uneven venture]

Whatever, guess my deck sucks absolute assshitballscrack than

[solid pike]

if you are coping about aggro out of all things then yea maybe it does

lol

[solid pike]

the cope on his part is really funny because most nations, especially UK and Soviets have a million anti-aggro tools

run one copy of winter warfare and that's already a board wipe against jaggro lol

calliope as well

[safe hill]

Because it makes the game slower and boring. Having fast decks that can end the game quickly if you skip the first four turns is what forces us into a meta where you need to interact from turn 1. It makes the game fun

[safe hill]

This

[solid pike]

i dont understand why he's coping about 15th cav specifically, there's much more annoying jaggro cards

like aforementioned tk 94

and regardless, both have a simple solution

[tough trail]

more cheaper and easier to get, can be combined with panzer 35(t) for easy aggro

[solid pike]

enter our god and savior

!winter warfare

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[tough trail]

ok, play without soviets

then?

[solid pike]

!calliope

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[solid pike]

!mare nostrum

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[solid pike]

!supply priorities

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[solid pike]

!desert rats

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[safe hill]

I have tried a number of different jaggros, and it runs with Germany, Italy, Finland and even US. It does get outclassed by other strategies with any nation though. The only jaggro to reach top pair was jaggro+ aunt frieda, because it has more breath than regular jaggro

[solid pike]

there you go

happy?

literally every nation has a counter to jaggro

lol

!456

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[solid pike]

also works really well against jaggro

[safe hill]

Mathematically, if you got nothing to drop turn two, your deck is poorly built

[safe hill]

Legit

[safe hill]

!supply priorities

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[safe hill]

Up

[uneven venture]

You don't know any other words than coping, do you? I just said I hate Jaggro and explained why. Daheck you trying to bitch about know?

[solid pike]

yeah lol

supply priorities and winter warfare straight up nuke jaggro

lmao

[uneven venture]

Wait let me take notes:
Only play US/Sov
Thanx

[solid pike]

did you not see the other anti-jaggro cards i brought up?

[uneven venture]

Brother

[solid pike]

also lets not forget about first responders

[uneven venture]

I

Am

Joking

[solid pike]

i literally cant tell over discord, but sure

[uneven venture]

Verrry balanced card, indeed

[solid pike]

especially since that sounds like something people would actually say

[solid pike]

totally balanced

i see literally nothing wrong with it bro

😭

[uneven venture]

For real?

[solid pike]

no

lmao

nerf that shit

[uneven venture]

Fell for it, got me there for a sec, ngl

[solid pike]

lmfao

well some people unironically think it's balanced

which... is certainly a take

[uneven venture]

Idk, it just feels like relying on a good mulligan and going first to beat jaggro w my ger/fin deck. And it runs fairly cheap units asw.

[solid pike]

in case of aggro vs aggro

you're just gonna trade until one side runs out of steam

so it really depends on whether you get a good hand or not

im not sure which units germany/finland have with 1k 0op cost so jaggro will likely have the fl first

which is suboptimal

[uneven venture]

Yep

best i can do is go first and 738th Jäger or 432nd Infantry on 2nd turn

[solid pike]

also btw when i was talking about coping, i was specifically refering to the guy who made the post

[uneven venture]

If I don't get those: Minus

[solid pike]

i'm 99% sure he's playing greedy ramp

[tough trail]

nope, I do not play ramp

don't like it

mostly mid range with any nation really

[uneven venture]

I like greedy otk shit asw, but I don't play those on ladder, and if I do get owned, I just go next, but getting 3-4 matches against jaggro in a row just when I wanna pull off that otk once for quick dopamine sucks XD

[solid pike]

if only 1. infantry regiment had blitz

[tough trail]

if im not wrong with the name, not sure

[solid pike]

would be peak

[uneven venture]

1/4 blitz standard would be wild tho

oh nvm

its the 1/2

[tough trail]

that card could be buffed

[solid pike]

yeah

[uneven venture]

true, there is no reason not to

[tough trail]

blitz would make it a japan equivalent, just a copy

[uneven venture]

!164th

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[solid pike]

this card literally has no reason to exist

lol

[uneven venture]

That thing has blitz AND a good effect

[solid pike]

yeah its really good

[tough trail]

well, thats a good point

forgot about that unit

[uneven venture]

Instead of nerf stronk, we buff weak! problem solved

[solid pike]

shit is annoying in brit air

[tough trail]

atleast UK air was a little nerfed in last patch

urra!

[solid pike]

yeah

UK air is one of the decks that's very unfun to play against for me

alongside discard

[tough trail]

you mean because you use it or because you built a deck to counter it?

[solid pike]

i dont use it and i dont build a deck to counter it, it's just annoying to play against

especially since most of them run either glamors or first responders

both of which should be nerfed imo

[tough trail]

glamours is fine

hated at first glance

[uneven venture]

Glamours should give 3 defense or smth like that

[tough trail]

but... its ok

[solid pike]

or reduce it to 5 defense

[tough trail]

maybe the healing could be reduced

to 2

[uneven venture]

the statline is fine for a 5-drop, but the 4 Heal is stupid, considering u can take 4 of them

Biggest problem imo

[tough trail]

without condition, thats the biggest flaw

how was that italian infantry that also give +4 health?

[uneven venture]

"Give your HQ 2 Defense, 4 if you control anouther guard"

[uneven venture]

!3K 4/3 italy standard blitz

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[tough trail]

that one

atleast it needs another unit, and it is common

glamours is just plain guard, plain healing

total of 16 health in total if 4 equipped

[uneven venture]

I'd say this is fine

[delicate crystal]

I said 15th cavalry is fine, it's a good spammable unit with the job of taking frontline and punish the opponent that ignores it , it seems bad now because a lot of early removal is reserved, like any unit can deal or trade into 15th cavalry

Besides it start dealing damage from turn 2 not like the 94 early, with the added effect of being an infantry you can use stuff like retreat, nerfing it only benefit deck that doesn't have early protection and punish jaggro so hard, I don't think it will recover

[deft hawk]

??? What's the punchline

do you not know what a punchline is

anyway BUFF 15TH CAV WOOO

make it a 5/2

just in case

[mint atlas]

I’ve heard 0 people say that, and the closest I’ve heard is that it’s op but not in need of nerfs

[foggy bear]

This is not a bad thing
Budget freindly tools is generally good the playerbase so people can build at least functional versions of meta decks more rapidly

It would be a really issue if like a new player can't build anything good because only the high rarity cards are strong enough to be meta

Like it's generally better that the lower rarity cards are strong
They form the core of decks which is good for people trying to build it

Like imagine if US ramp required like 20 specials because all good kredit ramp cards were only speical or elites

[neon flare]

There is no need to nerf jaggro at all

[cedar granite]

The only reason this card is good IS because it operates for free, and it's consistent.

[cedar granite]

I disagree. Aagro is one of the most fair deck archetypes in card games.

It starts fast and finishes fast.

At turns 1,2,3 and 4 they summon small minions to overwhelm your base and destroy it.

Usually after turns 5,6,7 they run out of cards or have less than half of the cards in hand.

And the cards they do have in hand are easy to get rid of with one order.

Once you got rid of their hand you win.

[cedar granite]

!3rd yokosuka

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[cedar granite]

Shiden was op

[fervent pendant]

!crossfire

[tepid spindle]

Cards found: 1

[fervent pendant]

Never mind.

[tough trail]

hopefully you can made it to turn 4

[slow berry]

I don't know how that would make it fair tho

[cedar granite]

It loses to late game and it can be countered

[nocturne sphinx]

I would rather nerf TK Early than nerf 15th cav