PUSH! Re-work/suggestion

[sharp burrow]

Even with the kredit cost nerf, I feel this card is still too powerful given how many self damage cards the soviets have and the fact that you can run two of these cards.

My suggestion would be to change this card:

"Your HQ takes 3 damage. Deal damage to target enemy equal to *half * the damage to your HQ this turn."

As it stands, you can easily combo off 15 damage with 8 kredits, which still leaves you with another 4 kredits if you have another one of these in your hand, so you can do 30+ damage with 12 kredit slots and all the right cards.

IMO it's too powerful for something that you can't really interact with.

[rancid dew]

Isn't this deck dead?

[tired cliff]

push has already been beaten within an inch of its life, no need

[gaunt vine]

I wouldn’t be opposed to this

[dusky frigate]

Kinda crazy we keep trying to come up with all these reworks and all it basically took to kill push was Bryansk getting reserved and a singular kredit increase

[feral vine]

Aerial recon nerf was kinda huge too

[gaunt vine]

Or you know, gpw reserve

[left oasis]

Just make the card Elite

People only otk with 2 ‘Push’ in one turn

[lime yoke]

I would legit just up the cost to 7k and let the effect be "deal to the enemy HQ damage equal to the amount of damage your units caused to your HQ this match"

So it would still have the same energy/goal, but no OTK unless you set it up perfectly

You'd need the entire deck to revolve around self-damage, instead of an 10k OTK combo that only takes 4 cards and can be set up in any deck

[lost magnet]

its cuz gamers are not game designers, patients are not good a giving prescriptions

[feral vine]

Guyz the deck is dead, stop trying to nerf it

[feral vine]

True

Push should be SD card

Kinda sad to see what happened to it

[deep lark]

yes this usually happens because the player perception of decks is often very warped
Most decks are only 1-2 nerfs away from falling off in the meta even and people don't realize how tiny those changes have to be

people think to like bring a deck into line you need to like take 3-4 cards and nerf them all harshly to fix a deck

history has shown usually 1 card going up in cost can often be enough

[lime yoke]

That's because of the way these discussions are set up. Since we're talking about cards in isolation, and we as players have little data, we are never actually comparing multiple different decks. Some people try to do it, but, in a game where each deck has 39 cards by default and the discussion grounds is outside the dimension of tempo, there's very little the player base can do to skip ahead of developers and find which +1k is going to fix everything

[deep lark]

It’s more so people are overzealous in their desire to see something nerfed.

Like this post as an example is such a harsh nerf it entirely kills the card after it’s already been nerfed out of the meta

Generally I think the top players are better about pointing to issue cards and the reasons why a certain card is an issue

There is a lot that goes into it ofc and the devs having any and all data they need helps them make what is hopefully the best choices

But people in general go way to hard on cards when suggesting nerfs/buffs

Also the general thing about what is acceptable in the game varying wildly between groups always impacts it as well

[lime yoke]

True

[foggy current]

This really was the main thing I think.

Ordinarily otk can be discarded or outhealed. In the case of push, putting your opponent at dangerously low health would do it too. Finally ofc there's rushing, but usually otk has hard early control making it unlikely.

GPW took 2/4 options off the table, with one of the two being easy to counteract. That leaves discard, which hasn't been viable for a while.

[inland crest]

hasnt this card already been slaughtered?

[tired cliff]

yes

I say bring it back

[carmine hill]

I have only seen push being used twice or thrice before the nerf.

Let alone after.

[hushed owl]

this kills not just push

bad idea imo

[hushed owl]

yes

[tired cliff]

it got rotated before I could test it with push :(

[lime yoke]

I understand that the community doesn't see Push as a problem, but I'm gonna keep using it because it's viable in ranked

[sharp burrow]

Everyone here acting like a card can’t be overpowered without being a staple in the meta 🙄

Don’t worry folks, 30+ dmg with 12 kredit slots that has minimal interaction ability is totally normal because it’s not frequently used 👍

[barren perch]

Nah what about tsuruga then like you can't completely remove otks so what can we do?

[feral vine]

Its not frequently used for a good reason

[sharp burrow]

OTKs in general are not a good concept if they are difficult to interact with, makes for a poor gameplay experience for anyone against the deck that’s not playing smash face deck

[sharp burrow]

Ok? My comment still stands, so 🤷‍♂️

[feral vine]

Why would a person who spent time learning the combo get punished??

OTK decks (most of the times) are most skill expressive and hard to play decks

[sharp burrow]

Ah yes the ol’ “draw cards and stall until you have the six cards you need to obliterate your opponent while they can’t do anything to prevent it unless they have a handful of specific counter cards”

Much skill much hard

[feral vine]

In current form push is balanced

Was it a problem before?

Yes

Is it beacuse its an OTK deck?

No

[inland crest]

its cuz its boring to play against

and coinflip matchup

[feral vine]

Having really bad/really good matchups is game designs fault, not one certain deck

There are situations where jaggro is even worse than push and its even less answerable

[inland crest]

im not saying it is

[feral vine]

People dont give a shit tho

"OTK bad" is easier to say than anything else

[sharp burrow]

Well it is bad, OTK is a poor design concept and shouldn’t exist, but here we are

[foggy current]

It's certainly a doable otk, one that without GPW I'd say is actually less toxic than most because it requires the OTK player to keep their own base health up as well.

The interaction with GPW was savage though.

As far as otk goes in general anyway

[oblique condor]

Push OTK play rate fell off way before gpw and even cw rotation lol

[foggy current]

Doesn't change how unfun it was to encounter when it did come up

[oblique condor]

It’s funny because even while it was good few played it outside of the card’s initial release

[foggy current]

GPW rotation does, for myself and others. Straight up way less annoying

I wouldn't say I have an issue with GPW as a whole, the way things were before Brothers (although you'd pretty much never see it then). As a defensive card that blocked stuff like Commonwealth or prevented your opponent from dragging out the game through overwhelming base health, it was good.

But it is an extremely dangerous card if given offensive synergies.

And push was just an overwhelming synergy with gpw

Especially being it isn't cross faction, so it still left a ton of options open

[hushed owl]

nah its cuz mirror cw push is really just fatigue matchup

and like

kinda silly

but that why i run black watch in my cw push

[lime yoke]

Exactly! We need but to look at Yugioh, where the power creep made any deck that is not OTK or FTK basically unusable

[lime yoke]

I don't find it takes too much skill to get two Push to one's hand by turn 10

[feral vine]

Alright so

Push is kind of an exception to what ive just said

And thats why it got nerf

Now you can actually outheal it which is great

But now

Withoit GPW

[lime yoke]

That's true to an extent. I think we'll see USSR+France pairings become more popular out of how much the Soviets benefit from healing altogether. Their whole shtick is self-damaging into tempo advantage

[feral vine]

Without aerial recon

And with push costing 4k

Push OTK is finally not that great anymore

[lime yoke]

I have a couple decks using it. One of them is pretty healthy because it involves a lot of interaction. The other is not, and is the reason why I remain adamant on killing the Push! OTK combo

[feral vine]

Wdym killing it

It got killed

In 3 seperate times already

[hushed owl]

[feral vine]

No wait

4 actually

Srry

[hushed owl]

1939 hates fun

[oblique condor]

KARDS ftk would be pretty epic

[hushed owl]

damn 5 likes on this is crazy

[feral vine]

What is ftk?

[oblique condor]

First Turn Kill

[feral vine]

Wait what

[oblique condor]

It’s mostly a yugioh thing I believe

[feral vine]

[oblique condor]

Because yugioh doesn’t have mana/kredits and it’s also a physical card game so they can’t rebalance cards easily

So there ends up being some wack combos

[hushed owl]

ayy

war production buff

give 10 kredits and draw 3cards

[sharp burrow]

If you can do 30+ dmg with 12 kredits, it’s not dead

*** without giving your opponent a fair chance to interact with it

[feral vine]

Thats not really how it works

[lime yoke]

2 Red Dawn + 2 Push! = 21 dmg to the enemy HQ for 10k. Each additional Red Dawn is +6dmg at the cost of 1k.
The combo can be perfect with better setup to cause even more damage

[feral vine]

Ths combo is still good

But its too hard to pull off now

And you can still outheal it pretty easily