#CommunityMP

1246 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

ionic dagger
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People are instantly gonna log in with this and Ralts' code bypasses aaaaaaallllllll the C++ code paths that've been modified for inventories to sync properly

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just not even happening

serene shard
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Just want to chime in with well-wishes and good luck to you! Is the goal of this to be its own stand-alone thing, similar to TES3MP? or do you hope submit patches to OpenMW upstream? Of course it is very early. Maybe if you get enough common questions, an FAQ would be cool on the website

ionic dagger
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I'm trying to finish getting my Patreon set up but the next thing after that is to see about deploying this on TSI

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These two things are unrelated efforts

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We still don't have functioning pipelines

foggy scroll
sleek grove
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ive been doing alot of testing on the latest CommunityMP build. im curious what other people have to say about it. has anyone else hosted a server with it?

lavish pawn
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In that case I vote for making default other formats, not .nif, make new animation system, world map (terrain handling).. and probably change whole rendering.. yeah, I am not hard to please..

empty belfry
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I like .nif todd

fringe sierra
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For me the most important thing is being able to play together with cool mods (Bardcraft). I couldn't care less about the surrounding UX but i get that the aesthetics are important to people 😅 since I was a teenager I have dreamed of playing custom music in Morrowind with my old band mates and it's really crazy how close that is to coming true now haha datchim

teal smelt
lavish pawn
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I mean if you really do want to go general engine path, sticking with bethesda stuff won't do.. there needs to be modularity to support multiple games with different needs or there is going to be forking..

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Nothing against that but it's better people contribute to main primarily..

empty belfry
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They tried to use collada in example suite but I think it had some issues

lavish pawn
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I would not change .nif format for openmw multiplayer but I would not use it for different game.. best thing would be support for .glb or something more efficient and conversion mods/scripts for openmw anywax..

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Btw I think this has great potential, I am going to contribute in the future for sure.. that editor needs some work.. nothing against base openmw, but it's repulsive for me to contribute there lol..

fringe sierra
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What games are you talking about?

lavish pawn
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You can do completely new game, not just known old ones..

fringe sierra
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Yeah I just curious if there was anything specifically available already

lavish pawn
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I really like gothic series and wow.. but doing it here, not sure.. 😄 and my personal idea would be something called Reseters. Secret cult resetting the world over and over and you find out next is upon you.. I wonder where I got that idea, hehe..

empty belfry
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You can make a new game with nif too if you want. I've been reassured there are no legal reasons not to

foggy scroll
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Nif tooling is just not very nice compared to modern standards

empty belfry
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One thing annoys me is not being able to import nif particles in to blender

foggy scroll
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Anyway, if there needs to be support for alternate formats, I'd hope they would be upstreamed into openmw. Otherwise you're going to fragment the modding community re morrowind

sleek grove
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1.) maybe get rid of filetypes all together. just "File1" "File2" "File3" no more .esp .nif, or whatever else file extension types

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crazy idea but an interesting one

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program can figure out what kind of file it is by looking at magic numbers or file headers

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_file_signatures

List of file signatures

A file signature is data used to identify or verify the content of a file. Such signatures are also known as magic numbers or magic bytes and are usually inserted at the beginning of the file.
Many file formats are not intended to be read as text. If such a file is accidentally viewed as a text file, its contents will be unintelligible. However,...

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2.) the program can assign file headers to the file based on what folder the file is in

foggy scroll
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The file type (extension) and the format are not the same thing. This is a silly thing to say

lavish pawn
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This is tied to rendering.. osg expects things certain way and you need to convert it from that file type.. so for every format it's different..

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Also osg needs to go.. and when I was fixing that VSG fork I was like man, this isn't it either..

fringe sierra
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Lmao this thread is wild 😅 As long as I get to play midi lute in Balmora with my friends it'll be all good sipsshein
Interesting times at the very least. The future path of openmw will be fun to watch

sleek grove
opal charm
sleek grove
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sit around the campfire, cook food , and play some of the lute

opal charm
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I have it working in .51 with multiplayer already, click name, join discord if interested.

on phone can't type good

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main focus is bardcraft and cs surfing lol

sleek grove
teal smelt
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lol

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Going to be pushing a rather large commit soon to do with a v2.0 roadmap

sleek grove
teal smelt
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I have done alot of work, its going to be night and day.

south lion
ionic dagger
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So do we have working pipelines?

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Have you done any exploration into the desync issues I described yesterday?

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What about running server scripts inside the OpenMW-Lua runtime?

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Has any of this .layout stuff been yeeted yet?

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We already have an early PR from Psi to do gLTF. No animation support yet, but again, this is one of those areas we've already started the work and it is there to be continued.

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Oh my god.

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The mod compatibility tests are C++-backed Lua integration tests?

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My son, you have extended the MWScript VM.

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I shall now be forced to end your life gently and honorably as is the tradition of my people.

agile knot
foggy scroll
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(they are joking)

ionic dagger
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naw but seriously that's kinda cursed

ionic dagger
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that's the smell of a fresh rebase right there fella

teal smelt
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Hmm

steady eagle
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holy peak

teal smelt
agile knot
faint parcel
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CMP! Let's goooo. Gang gang

sleek grove
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it looks like actor sync is going to win the vote

teal smelt
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Well actor sync is pretty much already there

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It is already much smoother than TES3MP and it has some better features

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But its not where I want it to be

visual fable
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So, how is it set up, can one create their own server currently? I'd like to try it out.

teal smelt
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I am not ready for people to be setting up servers just yet

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Once its ready I will be a primary official server setup for testing and we will likely run that for 1-2 months then I might go "This is where I want it to be. its stable and I feel comfortable with this build"

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Till then its safest to say "Not ready yet"

visual fable
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Okay, thanks for explanation!

teal smelt
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I also want to do some testing specifically with Tamriel Rebuilt

ionic dagger
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These servers really should be getting tested and hard.

sleek grove
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I like the risky untested builds. sometimes you just have to go in scrib-deep

ionic dagger
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I don't care. I'm not telling you.

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I'm telling anybody who cares about what's going on here that we're like 500 commits in with broken pipelines and none of the internals make much sense except for a scatter shot of random issues in our tracker that got fixed.

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There hasn't obviously been any work done whatsoever on compatibility with the new Lua runtime and indeed most of the tes3mp functionality is still present and active, meaning once you start putting things like Inventory Extender in here, it will stop working, instantly.

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Single player mods will desync the hell out of it, the tes3mp compat is insane, and none of this has been even acknowledged any of the times I've mentioned all of these very basic things that killed TES3MP and need solved.

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But, I see the Jolt branch has been merged after fixing an issue in collisions that only existed in Bullet, and, we're doing great messing around with these .layout files that are all gonna get deleted.

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I tried.

teal smelt
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Jolt is a seperate build path, I am just experimenting with it

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Jen had suggested I check it out

sleek grove
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multiple people told me about it and asked me to forward that information to you

teal smelt
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I appreciate it Jen

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Jolt is intresting for sure

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It will take some work to get things working with Jolt properly

ionic dagger
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You have seemingly made literally every obviously terrible decision possible as a consequence of taking Jen's advice. I know you're working hard, but, this person is just manipulating you and your project is worse because of it.

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I'm just being honest with you.

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This person is only out for their own self interest.

south lion
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Well I think the whole point is to get everything in a stable, working order with no desync before focusing on extra miscellaneous features that are inconsequential/not core mechanics

ionic dagger
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We could even do back compat way better than this.

sleek grove
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soo far from what ive seen alex is the only guy who actually wants to make tes3mp better. ive seen everyone else try to hold him back. if someone could have done this, they would have done so already

south lion
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Jolt isn't a part of any of that

ionic dagger
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Yeah, that's what I thought too, so why are we implementing Jolt and fixing tens of CS issues and screwing with login .layouts when we know the internals are entirely corrupt?

sleek grove
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thats alexs decision

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thats what he wants to do

teal smelt
sleek grove
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let this mans make his dream multiplayer build and stop trying to hold him back,

teal smelt
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I appreciate the criticism, its important for me to know genuinely how people are feeling

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This is called CommunityMP for a reason, while I do greatly appreciate your support Jen.

south lion
# sleek grove thats alexs decision

It's supposed to be driven by the community, though, and the project itself exists in more of a proof of concept stage rather than being something people can actually use. If Alex wants to add things, that's cool, but feedback should be taken into account too; all these cool features mean nothing if we can't really use the project itself for anything beyond very early testing purposes.

teal smelt
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From the vote it appears people want more sync work

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Which is what I am working on as we speak

sleek grove
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i like lua support, but i voted for sync becuase i think its a higher priority at this time

south lion
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It is

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Sync issues with just vanilla Morrowind obviously take priority, but the Lua stuff is very important too.

teal smelt
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Early on, I had mostly input from Jen and her focus was on support for classic TES3MP LUA scripts which is why I invested so much time on that early on

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Now having input from more of the community

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I want to take that into account

teal smelt
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It just exists as a seperate build path

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That isnt a focus for me at this time to get jolt working

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But its there should we at a later time

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I know I haven't worked on some of the requests you had though

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I am sure that is making you feel like I dont care what you want

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Which definetly isnt the case

ionic dagger
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It's really not about waht I want.

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These are not my desires that I am explaining.

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What I am explaining is basic functionality that killed the original project, period.

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This does not work fundamentally, and has been made worse by bending the runtime over backwards to support the original impl.

sleek grove
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new chargen menu looks great by the way.

teal smelt
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I appreciate that

mighty gazelle
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I think that's part of the issue.
It looks great.

But if the underlying support for it disappears, then you're left with nothing

ionic dagger
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There really genuinely are SO few tes3mp scripts, that's not a real compatibility target.

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There are like 4 people who made them and most of the reason they're so complex and awful is because of how complex and awful the original API is.

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I guarantee we've already outperformed everything that's ever been written for TES3MP by now. Years ago, in fact.

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Classic admins generally do not care about this particular difficult fact.

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Most of the basic strategies those scripts use for, like, everything, is total gibberish in the upstream API, because you have access to things like record data from the engine, and don't need to dump out your entire LO to JSON or w/e

teal smelt
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Yeah, like I said that was all work I did earlier on and I can pivot with community support if this isnt a critical support issue as it was presented to me

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I was informed that if we didnt have TES3MP support no server owner would want to port over

ionic dagger
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As far as I can tell you were told that by someone who refuses to write a single line of their own damned code anyway, so I don't think that's an authoritative source.

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Beyond that, we can just port their scripts.

mighty gazelle
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I think people would be fine moving on from TES3MP if it meant they were playing something more modern and more stable. But that's my two cents

teal smelt
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As long as we have support I can cut that umbilical cord completely and I will port scripts if needed

ionic dagger
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The TES3MP admin community for sure will fight you on it to the point that I wouldn't even get them involved until after you've got a working prototype and ported most of their scripts.

teal smelt
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But I want to make sure I have the communities support on that

ionic dagger
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They're gonna sit with their thumbs up their asses until you make it completely effortless.

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They might not even come after you do that much. I wouldn't expect it.

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Most admins aren't even in this Discord for you to talk to, because that's how little they actually care.

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This is kind of the core problem about doing multiplayer you have to face immediately. Because it's really two communities.

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You have one community of people who have no idea how far up shit creek without a paddle they are and think they can update tes3mp.

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They're still playing .47.

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The actual community I think you're trying to appeal to is this one.

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Where we have modders and releases and we're not all... It's like The Road over there, man.

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There's nobody left except to yell at you about how you broke all their stuff.

mighty gazelle
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When you market it as a MP mod for the current release, focus on the users who want to use the newest release

fringe sierra
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Yeah the Community will come together when they see that modern omw is playable in mp

ionic dagger
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They will swarm you with more and better content than the classic admins could ever even imagine.

worthy monolith
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My 'vote' going forwards beyond just that previous poll is to take S3ctor's input seriously.
Not that I mean any offence to Jen or anything but I think S3ctor is currently the one active in this discussion that's going to know the most about what the community doesn't know that they want.

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If that makes sense.

fringe sierra
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Yeah agreed

teal smelt
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I certainly would like to help bridge the old community back to OpenMW

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Coming together is ideal

fringe sierra
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If you build it..

teal smelt
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Yep

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I agree

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I think Jen does as well as long we support is offered to help port scripts

mighty gazelle
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Don't make this worse omfg

sleek grove
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need dudes like this

south lion
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You're being antagonistic for no reason whatsoever

fringe sierra
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This person has a strange way of interacting with the thread. It's like they want to make it an "us vs them" argument but it's not that

steady eagle
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I need my goon script from 0.47 or its unplayable 🤬

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i dont care if its a laggy mess, I dont care if no one plays it, I am the biggest tes3mp server owner and I demand that you cater to MY needs

ionic dagger
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Literally every mod in the TES3MP ecosystem can and would be better and more easily implemented here.

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Most of them already have been.

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There's no reason we can't and wouldn't do that, like, immediately.

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Those scripts are mostly old and broken and dogshit anyway

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Like, I want kanahousing back too

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But I know what's going on in KanaHousing and I know we've all been talking about rewriting it for a decade

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It's a non-argument tbh

south lion
ionic dagger
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BUT there are some places, for sure, tes3mp has more binds than we do.

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That needs fixed.

teal smelt
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I think its important here Jen to give respect to the OpenMW team as well. I might be doing alot of work but without the ground work none of this would be happening. It is not a competition on who can code the fastest, the most, or the best.

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What is important is the final product and us being able to come together as a community

sleek grove
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i agree

teal smelt
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To that end we have all shed sweat to make it possible

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S3ctor has done alot of previous work, and even if he hasnt worked on this directly that shouldnt be disregarded

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He has done alot for OpenMW

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As have many other devs

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Those that are here and those that are retired

ionic dagger
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More pertinent to the subject, I've spent more time than anyone else who's still active on the multiplayer implementation. I have my own. I have a team. I've researched this a lot, for years, and gone through all the same things you are now.

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So if there is someone who can earnestly bitch at you about your impl with good faith I'm probably better than most.

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Half the time, I feel like I'm the only one that actually gives a damn about multiplayer around here 😄

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I just want to save you some headaches is what I mean.

teal smelt
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❤️

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Don't worry I get it S3ctor

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I don't take offense

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I know you just want this to succeed

lavish pawn
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I mean no disrespect to anyone but trying to do back compat with old MP isn't the proper way to move forward. You need to support current version and also be ok with that there are going to be changes in the future and scripts will need some updates again until full thing is done properly. Openmw is not done so your/community work won't be done too. Supporting some old servers because those guys won't contribute anything anyway is..

teal smelt
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It is called constructive criticism \

ionic dagger
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I appreciate your understanding. I don't mean it offensively. I've dealt with this and the classic admins derailed my project with their bullshit too.

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Not even any of the ones here, either!

teal smelt
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I also don't begrudge Jen, there is alot of history here and everyone has their own wants and we will work it all out

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We are going to get there guys

ionic dagger
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I don't either, but, this is a pattern you'll see and it's a real problem for us to solve.

teal smelt
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I want this to be great for all of you and I am listening

ionic dagger
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We do have to appeal to the old admins, they have strong communities.

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But I think the way we do that is making sure all of the necessary bindings exist, for us to port their scripts.

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Not necessarily making sure they run outta the box.

teal smelt
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Right now their scripts should run out of the box

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But I get your point in not enabling them to keep relying on the old system

ionic dagger
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Well so much of the core server logic/functionality is pure Lua. That's kind of the real design decision here. And I kinda think it's fine, maybe, that a lot of the decision making happens there, in Lua

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The main thing is that the server-side Lua code needs gutted out of openmw-mp and migrated into a GLOBAL script in the "true" runtime

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Then we can start dealing with the real problems

mighty gazelle
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From a more laymans terms, I think the goal is to make an ecosystem that stands on it's own, and is fully stable and compatible with modern OpenMW, as opposed to a pure standalone thing. Whilst also leaving the hooks open that allow for scripts like the TES3MP ones to exist.
Making it explicitly compatible is a rabbit-hole. But making it available in the same ways is much more achievable

ionic dagger
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Explicit compatibility eventually and inevitably runs into the fact that these are two wildly different systsems with very different thought processes behind them and they just don't mesh, like, at all.

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nobody on Earth actually likes using that API.

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Not a goddamn soul.

lavish pawn
ionic dagger
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If you want my real thoughts on the matter I say fuck 'em completely tbqh

mighty gazelle
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That's kind of the point. It doesn't have to be the same, it just needs to be possible, and be better

ionic dagger
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I don't think the admins will ever come no matter what you do

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But their players sure will

mighty gazelle
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If the players come, the admins have very little choice

ionic dagger
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I've spent most of my tenure in this community watching people from the tes3mp side of things sort of idly and quietly sit there and complain about our changes to themselves and all, but

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You're not seeing any of them even trying to make mods over here. Ever. None of them have ever opened any issues about missing bindings they need for their mods.

lavish pawn
ionic dagger
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Most of them aren't even in this Discord in the first place.

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I am the only one who crossed over.

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Other than Urm. But I don't think he was ever really an admin, per se.

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Most of them have not even pretended like they were willing to start a conversation with us about this. But if they catch a whiff of someone else doing something useful and productive, they will absolutely make sure to try to get you to run cover for them so they don't have to rewrite these... relatively basic scripts

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Dudes be acting like they're tim sweeney over making a bad discord bridge or something

teal smelt
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The one thing I don't really want to cater to is making it easy to cherry pick stuff I add to be merged into other forks, bringing everyone under one umbrella is ideal. But people will do as they choose.

lavish pawn
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I mean when you get dehardcoded combat and movement and some good mods into MP it's game over IMO..

mighty gazelle
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Access to modern mods is what would make this an absolute slam dunk compared to TES3MP

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But the way it's set up atm doesn't allow for that

ionic dagger
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I just wanna play CHIM2090 in space bro.

mighty gazelle
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Players brawling with N'Garde, or slinging Noita Spells in multiplayer would be an actual dream

fringe sierra
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Yepyep

teal smelt
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I am in a prerelease testing stage

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I might have a stable server up soon with a stable release posted

haughty wind
teal smelt
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That is a multiplayer game i would play

agile knot
teal smelt
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Politics and internal drama 😔 but we will get past it all

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Peacemaking is the better path

steady eagle
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We want the vaginas of vvardenfell script ported or we revolt 🤬🤬

teal smelt
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🙏

vapid shadow
sleek grove
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The new .LAYOUT character generator is AMAZING!

sleek grove
sleek grove
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The new .LAYOUT character generator is AMAZING!

haughty wind