N'Garde. Vanilla-Friendly Parry and Active Block.

[rustic latch]

Thank ya'll for the support

[vocal ibex]

now the bosses are casting spells twice when they switch to cast form 😭

[rustic latch]

That a big problem?

[vocal ibex]

yeah

they're only supposed to cast once

[rustic latch]

I mean, way I see it - they got harder

but

[vocal ibex]

lmao

[rustic latch]

I think I can do something with that

[vocal ibex]

well when they cast the same summon spell twice

and such

[rustic latch]

Yeeeah

I see

hmmm

[vocal ibex]

sometimes he casting 3x lol

[rustic latch]

I need to shower, but in the meantime - can you try chaing the var on liner 42 of fencer lua to 1 from 0.6

or 1.5

and or comment out line 69

I may need to look at it more

[inner hare]

I was wondering about implementing mwscripts for some creature spellcasters, but reading about all the BS conflicts certainly doesn't encourage the idea . At least for those who have "can use weapons" flag 😅 .

[rustic latch]

I mean - N'Garde does a lot with the creatures/npcs, and we narrowed it down

[vocal ibex]

my bad @rustic latch it seems to be working i think i just screwed something up on my end, boss is 👍 now

thanks!

and thanks for adding the blacklist lmao

i like the note

[rustic latch]

Working without the changes I've mentioned?

[vocal ibex]

it worked vanilla style

didn't make changes

but commenting out line 69 caused him to freeze again

[rustic latch]

Right. What I'm afraid may happen

[vocal ibex]

so dont do that

xD

[rustic latch]

is that with whatever happens on 42 and below - may cause doublecast again at one point

I'm going to run throguh him several times tomorrow

[warm sandal]

N'Garde is an amazing mod, thank you for the hard work. Do you have any recommendations for increasing the aggressiveness of NPCs? Maybe it's because I have Mercy on but I find that enemies don't take advantage of openings, wait too long between attacks, etc.

[rustic latch]

Hey, thank you.

I don't play with Mercy, aside from original testing, but maybe take a look at its settings

[warm sandal]

There is some kind of vanilla parameter that can be changed, let me double check

[rustic latch]

yeah, doublecasts pretty reliably

[warm sandal]

I think "combat delay"

[rustic latch]

However, summons don't get duplicated it seems, and offensive spells are fine imo

I'll dig deeper tomororow anyway

[rustic latch]

that's a GMST, you'd need a mod to change that

I don't know if mercy does anything to it

I don't

[warm sandal]

That's right, they are fCombatDelayCreature and fCombatDelayNPC respectively

[rustic latch]

the base values

I think that's seconds

but you never know

[warm sandal]

I experimented with setting it to -.25 I think and didn't notice anything too special, I'll try a more aggressive setting and then disable Mercy and see if that helps

[rustic latch]

Here:

https://wiki.openmw.org/index.php?title=Research:NPC_AI_Behaviour at the bottom of the page

if pseudocode there is correct - the negative values will have an effect. But GMST itself may be an unsigned float under the hood - dunno

However, an important point about it - N'Garde quite significantly increases NPC attack windup duration

otherwise - there's no telegraph at all, and parrying NPCs gets very hard

I'm increasing it by 350-450 ms, that together with median human reaction time and the time it takes for parry animation to play gets you just enough time to parry in time

[candid wren]

Not entirely at my laptop but what’s the anim hooks for a prefect parry?

Idk if I’m saying it right

[rustic latch]

it's not by animation. not entirely

When you press parry - animation plays, once it reaches the stop key (fully raised position) - parry is active, you can defend.

at that same moment a timer starts

if you get hit with a parry raised while that timer is running - the parry is considered perfect

@copper raft good news. that Tribunal main quest reforged fight is finalyl properly fixed. Sorry it took so long. But only local version for playtesting for now. Nexus tomorrow, probably

[copper raft]

For real? Nice

Ill give it a whirl in a bit

[rustic latch]

Just ran through it, properly - not a single hand bugged out

casters were the main remaining problem, and we figured it out today

Oh, and @vocal ibex another feedback piece. Shadows sometimes get stuck

And now I sleep

[tough juniper]

Champion. Fair dues for figuring out the fix. A lesser mortal would just blacklist and call it a day

[rustic latch]

It's a bit of a hack as a consequence of what I'm doing to control the npc

[warm sandal]

Removed Mercy and have had much better results! NPCs are less likely to pace around me and step back when I step forward.

[rustic latch]

They would still hold at the edge of their weapon range if melee

but yeah ymmv with Mercy - it varies the NPC behaviour a lot, some for the better

[warm sandal]

I think it works better with Mercy when you're fighting equally-matched enemies -- they are more conservative and avoid getting hit more -- but once you start getting more powerful and can kill them in a few hits, NPCs are better off behaving like glass cannons.

[rustic latch]

🤷‍♂️ I mean, as long as it works for you

[wet tendon]

until you get trigger happy and the NPC perfect parries and you fall to the ground losing all your fatigue 😄

[rustic latch]

I mean, that should only happen when you're low-ish already

But yeah, don't spam

[wet tendon]

not fun when you have HBFS and your character is level 134 with NCG and Skill Evolution with difficulty cranked up to 300% XD

[rustic latch]

I take no responsibility for that - you did that to yourself

[inner hare]

Yes, I like mods. How can you tell?

@maiden tangle be like:

[copper raft]

No bugs for me either. Honestly perfect. I appreciate that you still looked into it

[rustic latch]

Nice. Good to hear

[maiden tangle]

Fitting fun fact: I used a full set of bound armor + plus an enchanted daedric claymore with fire damage for the fight

[maiden tangle]

And of course I had to add the cape onto the bound cuirass as well

[rustic latch]

Bleugh. So I think I've improved the boss-fight handling, still getting double (and sometimes triple) casts from the mofo in beneath the permafrost, but less often

Also got distracted with unrelated bullshit so update probably tomorrow

[inner hare]

Lol. Maybe it means that it's polishing/bugfixing only and feature-wise it's some other mod you could focus on. Like an injury system .

[rustic latch]

Yeah. As I said - "it is perfect because it ends here". I've thought long and hard on it, and I don't think N'Garde needs any more features

[tough juniper]

right on

[rustic latch]

Injury system - maybe. I know hyacinth was planning one too

[inner hare]

Holidays update when

[rustic latch]

Next probably. A way to talk to Daedra on a non-summoning day.

Don't really think it needs anything else. But just secondary condition on that, some gold + twice the offering probably.

well. "some" - probably something in settings

[inner hare]

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

[rustic latch]

“Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife - chopping off what's incomplete and saying: 'Now, it's complete because it's ended here.'

[cinder gulch]

Could collab if you want, though I was going to have mine dependent on sun’s dusk because I don’t want to implement those APIs again

[rustic latch]

I'm not beyond rough feature draft and a bad name idea for that one, so don't worry about it

[cinder gulch]

Yeah sure haha, I was going to take a look at the Skyrim mods but the most important part of the injury system imo is being able to craft bandages and medicine which there is now a crafting station for

[rustic latch]

However - do check out the "interop" page on n'garde wiki, cause if you're going to include combat injuries - would be good to have them prevented by blocks and parries

Most of those are not yet in the nexus version, but are in the test 1.2.9 I've posted yesterday here, nexus soon too

[cinder gulch]

Yeah no problem, I’m gonna be tied up with other mods for a bit but when you start creating abilities and stuff or want help with brainstorming lmk

[rustic latch]

I may yet leave the injury stuff to you.

Have another half-baked idea, we'll see

[cinder gulch]

I go with abilities since as you know, modifying attributes and skills with lua has some fun engine features and in general people like seeing buffs/debuffs applied to them in an esp

Helps the mwscript folks too

[rustic latch]

I was thinking adding injuries some as diseases

[inner hare]

Actually, a poor block with high dmg could break your arm

[rustic latch]

concussions etc

[cinder gulch]

“Get away from me you diseased creature”

[rustic latch]

Hmmm. Should I add "initial damage" to the self parry event

[rustic latch]

fuck, right

[cinder gulch]

[inner hare]

There are curses

Unused

By the game

Some script mods use them. Rarely.

[rustic latch]

I also have a great tinnitus SFX laying around somewhere

Ah, here it is

[inner hare]

Yeah, I sort of have this, but with lower intensity.

[rustic latch]

My idea was "blunt force and long term injuries" that can't be field healed, so find a healer

Hence didn't need the bandages etc -

can't really bandage a concussion

or a perforated eardrum

[inner hare]

Block (non-perfect) with high dmg - arm injuries. Fall dmg - leg injuries. Fire damage - burns. Frost dmg - frost bite.

This would be dope

Dynamic

[rustic latch]

Yeah, something to that effect

That said - Imma add initial damage to the parry events that I send for interop.

https://gitlab.com/Arrean/openmwluaparry/-/wikis/Home/Interop-Hooks
and here's what's currently in

[inner hare]

Cool. Isn't it already used by SE?

Raw damage

You use dmg negated, I think.

[rustic latch]

the negated portion, but I send it directly to SE via SkillUse

this will be visible to any mod with a player script

[inner hare]

Magic could also deal with that. However, injury type could depend on weapon type. So swords could cause bleeding while maces would cause concussions. Creatures would be blunt by default with a list for bleeding injuries instead (wolves, bears, kagouti etc.).

[rustic latch]

TES Magic, is one of the few "actual magic" magics in modern fantasy - hence it can deal with anything given sufficiently willful and gifted mage

Since it works purelly on "I will it so" and the intent of the caster, not on pseudoscience rules

[inner hare]

What I mean is that there can be more than one way to treat injuries. Not everyone is a caster.

[rustic latch]

I mean yeah. But I'd imagine "medicine" would be limited to first aid, given that healers are not rare

[inner hare]

It isn't that powerful as depicted in-game

[rustic latch]

course it isn't

[inner hare]

It's not like Torment where you blink, believe sth and it happens 😄

[rustic latch]

But otherwise - it's very close to MtA magic

just in general shape of it

minus the paradox

[inner hare]

MtA?

[rustic latch]

Mage: The Ascension

The other popular game from Word of Darkness aside from Vampire that everyone knows

[inner hare]

Excluding godlike entities and some ancient rituals, standard magic in TES seems to be strong but basic stuff. Fireballs and water breathing don't exactly shake the world. Stuff like Vivec flooding the province, Dwemer tonal architects etc. is sth intentionally kept legendary and vague. The devs never wanted to disrupt the games too much.

[rustic latch]

Yeah, and a mage in MtA that is not thousands of years old and not deep in the umbra will be similarly limited

But - the underlying shape of magic - that the intent and consensus guides the idea of what "walking on water" e.g. means - that we don't get side effects like not being able to drink because water in your flask suddenly treated by your body as solid etc

means magic follows not hard-boiled pseudoscience rules

but the casters will and intent

meaning - given sufficiently powerful entity - it can do anything

[pastel vine]

Arrean, I forgot, did you end up cutting the shield bash idea or saving it for something else?

[rustic latch]

I have the code, but consider it cut

it's not in the main repo, nor in the released version

same for riposte

[pastel vine]

Ahh okay, I was curious my friend haha. Thank you

[rustic latch]

(same feature really)

[inner hare]

It's all theorycrafting, but I don't think it limits gameplay in any way 🧐 . We can do whatever since it's not specified and magic as witnessed in-game is not reality-bending. So the truly epic stuff is of lesser concern here. There can be various ways to deal with injuries and potions and magic are the first things that come to mind. They can also be as long-lasting as gameplay requires. Even perma or semi-perma ones. The first person we meet in-game (Jiub) has clear scars and an eye injury, so it can and does happen. IMO it's mostly about how complex the system is supposed to be and what the desired gameplay effect is. I once saw an interesting Skyrim mod for injuries, but it made everything go away after 8h of resting which seemed far too easy and lenient 🧐 .

[rustic latch]

Nah, that's fair. I honestly hadn't given too much thought to ways of dealing with it beyond "I'd like player to have to look for helo for worst stuff"

[cinder gulch]

If you’re going to a Healer to get healed, it means you have to write dialogue

[rustic latch]

yup

[cinder gulch]

I’m not opposed to it since there’s an actual “Healer” class unlike Skyrim, but their mods have a wound progression system

But if we’re going to the point of needing to see a Healer for a concussion we may as well do physical therapy too

[rustic latch]

Yeah, you can tell I hand't thought it through that much

[cinder gulch]

All good haha, like I said I’ll be looking at the popular Skyrim mods since they got something right

[wet tendon]

I wonder if anyone's used ngarde interop yet

[rustic latch]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58430 this does. No clue about any other mods

[wet tendon]

I used it in my haxbox version of hit kill feedback, which lead to me wanting critical hits to display, which lead to me making an interop for lucky strike etc

https://streamable.com/sk7ozl

man look at all that floating text 🤣

[inner hare]

I end up disabling floating text in most games

[wet tendon]

the only time it gets annoying is when you shoot an aoe at a group of enemies and you just see random numbers flying around the crosshair

[rustic latch]

I mean. If it works for you. I dislike floating text in any form

[iron lance]

Same

[real onyx]

currently the block key starts blocking even if UI is open and closes UI - can this be disabled?

or is that because it is on right-click for me? despite setting ui key to Tab

[hearty scroll]

I also use tab for UI and right click for parry and right click doesn't close the UI for me (by UI I'm guessing you mean inventory/stats/map/etc)

So it might be something else causing this

Or something else making it behave for me

[sour cipher]

my thinking

[rustic latch]

Yeah, that's right click. Check your other binds

Main game binds specifically. It doesn't do that if bound to other keys

Meanwhile I'm in the middle of installing the os on the new pc.

[real onyx]

I checked settings and it says Tab for menus

Will look again at other binds

[rustic latch]

Not on my end, I don't think. I'll check if I can reproduce and advise once i get the system up and running

Rmb may be a generic hardcoded 'dismiss' too. Though I wonder why it behaves for Billie then

[hearty scroll]

I forgot how its phrased in the settings, but there is the general menu (save/load/exit) and the HUD menu (inventory/stats/maps/magic). Make sure you dont confuse those two? (I honestly dont remember how theyre called in the keybind menu, so it might be a stupid suggestion 😅 )

[inner hare]

https://tenor.com/view/pray-feet-pepe-pepe-feet-pray-gif-13367702538580662263

[rustic latch]

it's alive

[hard tree]

Nice choice

[inner hare]

finally, you will be able to play Sekiro again

[rustic latch]

I've been recommending it to people while running mint and debian. Figured it's time

[rustic latch]

[hard tree]

It's my next choice once my opensuse install kicks the bucket

[rustic latch]

It is nice, so far

I did stick with cinammon tho - can't help but like it

[kindred imp]

I mean

Debian just works

[rustic latch]

Yah. So does mint. Generally most linux flavors these days do

[rustic latch]

So I'm assuming if anyone tried this version - no major issues were encountered.

I did find and fix a couple old bugs in the meantime. So this plus those fixes will be going up soon

[rustic latch]

Up on nexus

1.2.9

• blacklisted mass spawning creatures from "Beneath the Permafrost" - Let's be real you weren't going to fence with those anyway, and a good AOE scroll/enchant/spell was the solution anyway. For now let's agree those are dumb undead and can't parry
• Hopefully fixed the "mwscript actor is frozen" issue for scripted boss fights and duels. This specifically affected actors that switched between spell and weapon stance often and were sent "Cast" directive from mwscript
• Parry Animation speed update - 2h weapons slightly faster, 1h weapons slightly slower. h2h 3rd person and 1st person now match and generally slightly slower.
• Interop fields and events - see wiki https://gitlab.com/Arrean/openmwluaparry/-/wikis/Home/Interop-Hooks
• fixed a bug introduced in 1.0.9 where non-default parry effectiveness settings were not applying correctly
• general code cleanup and optimizations

[wet tendon]

- ngarde_riposte - set to true for a counter-attack Hit event if riposte is successful

so riposte is back?

[rustic latch]

Nope

forgot to remove it from the description

Thanks for pointing it out

[wet tendon]

np, was just curious 🤣

[rustic latch]

readme, wiki and changelogs are all separate, sometimes I forget to sync them up

[rustic latch]

1.2.10

• fixed controller handling bug

[inner hare]

this was before this update, but I noticed annoying lag before parrying is reenabled post-knockdown

not sure if related

it seems to get unblocked if I swing a weapon

[rustic latch]

After you get knocked down?

[cinder gulch]

Btw, the slider renderer is broken on 0.52

[inner hare]

I get knocked down->I stand up->sometimes I can't parry, but I can parry again if I swing a weapon

this is on 1.2.09

wait

1.2.9

lol

you used a wrong version number for the latest one 😛

[cinder gulch]

Tbf the engine’s renderers are also fucked up so idk if they’ll get fixed, or if ownlyme will update his renderers

[rustic latch]

Need intel on this one. Does it happen when
a) you were parrying and got knocked down
b) were attacking and got knocked down
c) started parry animation, but didn't finish it and got knocked down
d) just randomly

[rustic latch]

Broken how?

[rustic latch]

Did I, or are you pretending to not understand semantic versioning again? 😛

[cinder gulch]

The labels for like “min” and “max” or whatever your set for those get shifted to the left, or any other labels in any settings renderer tbh, and the center of the slider is also broken

But like I said, even the openmw ones are affected by this lol

[rustic latch]

ui stuff? - meh, it'll be fine

[cinder gulch]

Yeah, UI stuff

All of Ralts’ mods are broken too and don’t show up, not sure if he’s going to take my MRs

[rustic latch]

Ugh fuck

I think I broke 3rd person h2h block animation

in addition to whatever Cybvep is experiencing

[cinder gulch]

Not sure if he’ll take my MRs or if he’ll just delete his mods and nexus account lmfao

[cinder gulch]

That includes holidays btw

Guess I could include something in timehud for it

[rustic latch]

51 is not even released yet. I don't think it's anywhere near time to worry about breaking changes in 52

[inner hare]

Wtf

[cinder gulch]

We’ll see I guess, for all we know the devs could revert the changes tomorrow

[inner hare]

Who we have to call in order not to kill Ralts?

[cinder gulch]

The devs

[rustic latch]

UI Changes to make better wrappers etc got merged a day or two ago

[inner hare]

I'm calling Todd

[rustic latch]

blame Nox at this time :P I guess. But - from what I've seen - he's doing good work

You are definitely being a bit dramatic for effect :P

[cinder gulch]

Yeah but is it worth refactoring 15,000 lines of code for the most popular mods in the last year for?

I mean we just have to update our settings renderer but half my mods use Ralts’ in some way

[rustic latch]

@inner hare you got anything for this one btw? Cause I see one potential pathway for it to happen, but not sure if you encounter that or something else

[cinder gulch]

It’s if you use grow or stretch and a few other things iirc, definitely don’t need to use them to implement resizing and other things though

But yeah, that’s for them to sort out

[rustic latch]

To make UI that ultimately doesn't suck - yeah. We are modding for an actively in-dev engine, it's a blessing and a curse. To be quite fair - their attitude of "let's not break userspace, and what has been exposed in API, can't go away" is very atypical

[cinder gulch]

I mean it messes with their own settings renderers

[rustic latch]

it's a nightly indev

it's not meant to be 100% stable

You'd not be happy if it was managed the way I manage software projects at work

[cinder gulch]

Which is why I say this haha

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/binco-binconator-ripbinco-dixpointun-10point1-gif-14485736698865665626

^ me and the code base

[tropic fulcrum]

I can't believe OpenMW devs sold themselves out to big UI

[cinder gulch]

If I had to refactor 15,000 lines of code a month, yeah I wouldn’t be happy lmfao

[tropic fulcrum]

make s3ctor create a program to auto fix this lol

[rustic latch]

Not a month. But e.g. - all the stuff that is marked as "deprecated" in docs, but is actually still there? Would be gone

[cinder gulch]

We’ve had to refactor that much code within the last month, and now he has to do it again

[rustic latch]

No, no one does. 0.52 is far away

[cinder gulch]

For the suboptimal UI code I mean

[rustic latch]

Warning yeah - fair. But - no one needs to worry about refactoring for 0.52 for a while yet I'd say

Btw, unrelated - we dont' have a way to hot reload assets, right? (animations/meshes)

[cinder gulch]

We’ll see I guess, just wanted to let you know that the settings renderer is fucked

[cinder gulch]

Correct

Have to restart each time

[rustic latch]

Nah, I appreciate it, but release branch has already diverged, so I'm not too worried for now.

[kindred imp]

which one? 🧐

I wasn't following

[rustic latch]

slider renderer

and some engine ones

but it's on a nightly of 0.52

so nothing to worry about for a while

(visually broken)

[kindred imp]

eh, they will have to keep backward compatibility for the builtin ones

so whatever

[rustic latch]

yup

[kindred imp]

:(
but I wasn't using them yet :)

[rustic latch]

It's fine on 0.51 - so feel free

no telling how long till 0.51 releases, and then how long the 0.52 cycle will be

[inner hare]

POV: Claude builds a road?

[rustic latch]

Me hacking out legacy code

btw. I was able to reproduce the knockdown issue

[inner hare]

Ha

So it's real

[rustic latch]

still need to hear from yah which of those situations it has happened to you in

a) you were parrying and got knocked down
b) were attacking and got knocked down
c) started parry animation, but didn't finish it and got knocked down
d) just randomly

[inner hare]

Ok

I will try to reproduce

Setagility 0

Let's go

[rustic latch]

If you remember. I got it in b and see how that can happen there

but if it's not b for you - something else is fucked and will be annoying to find

[inner hare]

I actually think it was b, but lemme check

[rustic latch]

player->setfatigue 1 works a charm too

anyway - I've fixed the pathway I've found, tested - no issue anymore

So Imma wait a bit, if you're testing now - to see if you're having the same issue. And if you do - will push an update

[inner hare]

yes

wait a bit

[inner hare]

I can rule out a) so far

I don't have issues with parrying again post-knockdown

[rustic latch]

that realisitically rules out c as well

I've checked and "started" state gets cleaned out togethere with "parrying" state in all cases

[inner hare]

it's b)

I've just reproduced it

now the indev version

now it's fine

[rustic latch]

Excellent

1.2.11

• Fixed 3rd person h2h block animation issue introduced in 1.2.9
• Fixed a rare edge case where after a knockdown actor won't be able to parry until the swing their weapon once.

[rustic latch]

1.2.12

• Fixed Another "can't parry" bug. Players now can parry after sheathing their weapon mid-charge. Previously it required on attack swing to get the parry working again.

[inner hare]

Literally unplayable

[rustic latch]

I'm not pushing an update for it

It's been like that since those settings were added

And we didn't catch it then, we didn't catch it when we were translating the settings, and now of all times someone notices

Yup:
April 16th, when I first added those settings. 3 days before the release

So here comes the big question.
Should I release the miss feedback as a standalone mod?

It's ready. Just need to come up with a name and make a thumbnail

(for those unfamiliar with our friends down under - first answer is no, second one is yes)

Rationale being - the lack of combat feedback is probably the #1 complaint about MW. And some people don't want the rest of the features. And I don't wanna add a setting to N'Garde to disable everything but miss feedback.

[inner hare]

https://tenor.com/view/dew-it-galactic-republic-palpatine-gif-21847982

[rustic latch]

and @cinder gulch if you meant to vote "no" - please let me know why

[cinder gulch]

The feedback it’s important for your mod, guess you could have it as a separate mod but wouldn’t you be reusing most of your code like for detecting combat and stuff?

[rustic latch]

Oh, see

I wont' be removing it from N'Garde

this is specifically for people that went "ewww parry" when N'Garde released

so they can use feedback, without the parry and everthing else

and main mod stays as is

[cinder gulch]

Oh I see, gotcha

[rustic latch]

It feels a bit download farmy

but, this was brought up by several people

[cinder gulch]

But yeah in general I don’t see the point of copy/pasting your APIs and such

[rustic latch]

so I figured I'd ask here

[cinder gulch]

But that’s also me

[rustic latch]

Also

[steep crystal]

Quick question - the yellow bar that pops us during combat on the bottom left corner of your screen - what mod is that related to? I have been trying to reposition it for a bit and cant find what mod it relates to

[rustic latch]

that's vanilla

it's the enemy healthbar

[steep crystal]

ha! No wonder why I could not find it anywhere in my mod scripts. after an hour of searching, the thought it was vanilla jumped into my mind but I did not want to admit the wasted time...

thanks for the confirmation!

[rustic latch]

I think there are mods that move/replace it, I've seen it somewhere. But won't be able to tell you which right now

[cinder gulch]

Better Bars

[rustic latch]

Ah, of course

[cinder gulch]

Anything to make that .layout file obsolete

[inner hare]

I think that the main point of a separate dodge feedback mod is to provide that functionality to players who don't use N'Garde

[rustic latch]

^ yup

And I know there are some that don't want parry and stuff

[inner hare]

as a bonus, it would shut up all those people who can't handle hit chance without animation

there is still that "can't hit a mudcrab" crowd, but they probably would install N'Garde and use glancing hits

[rustic latch]

I mean... There's the problem of miss feedback not covering mudcrabs

[inner hare]

tssshhh

keep that under wraps

[rustic latch]

[hearty scroll]

The way I see this : it gives people who have various problems with vanilla combat, various options.
Either feedback, or 100% hit, or more involved active combat, or all three, each will be possible.

[young aspen]

I voted for same mod because I'm lazy and its one less thing in my mod list

[misty phoenix]

From what I understand, the feature will still be present on N'Garde, so you wouldn't need both mods

Which is also the reason why I don't think it would seem like download farming, in my opinion

[inner hare]

actually

it would probably be best to release such a poll in the general thread

as it affects non-N'Garde folk more than N'Garde folk

[rustic latch]

You won't need a second mod in your list. N'Garde stays as is, miss feedback is released separately for those that don't want all the other features

[pastel vine]

I don't think it should be separate. It compliments N'garde very well

[rustic latch]

Again, not removing it from N'Garde. Only for people that for whatever their reasons are dont' want parry and all other features that can't be disabled, but want miss-feedback

[pastel vine]

Ahh okay I'm catching up on the thread

[rustic latch]

And you voted for "yes" :P

|| I spend too much time was Australians ..||

[pastel vine]

Lol I should have read the disclaimer lmao

I do think the miss feedback is important for N'garde. It's so refreshing and exciting

[sterile zealot]

So I’ve noticed there some oddities in using this with Mercy Combat Overhaul - am I the only one?

[pastel vine]

What have you noticed out of curiosity?

[rustic latch]

I don't use Mercy, but several people here do. Do elaborate

[rustic latch]

Yeah, it will stay in, there just will be another option

[sterile zealot]

A lot of times actors will just keep their weapon in the parry animation and then I will get hit with an attack but no attack animation ever plays

That might be intended though

[rustic latch]

Definitely not

which version of N'Garde are you running

[sterile zealot]

The one you just uploaded

I check every day for updates lol

[rustic latch]

And does it not happen without Mercy?

[inner hare]

Hm, I think I noticed this during last testing session in Seyda Neen cavern. Our favourite girl there. Just handwaved it as some fluke.

[sterile zealot]

I haven’t check without mercy

[inner hare]

Same here. I don't remember it happening before, though.

[rustic latch]

It did very much happen before, problem is - the code that checks for it didnt' change recently

Basically if an actor ever transitions out of parry stance in any way that I control - animation will end

And in case of engine shenanigans - I check if the animation is playing while there's no parry and if it does - cancel it

bleugh

Let me see if I can improve it

[inner hare]

Is it Mercy related, though?

[rustic latch]

Very unlikely at the core of it. Mercy may wrestle actor control at some points from N'Garde and cause those "engine shenanigans" that I've mentioned

but I don't think it would be causing the stuck animation in a literal sense

I've not seen stuck animations in a while on my install, and I don't use Mercy, but I don't think it is squarely to blame

[misty phoenix]

I don't think I've experienced that while playing with Mercy

[rustic latch]

I see what happens

Mercy may make it worse

but very much reproducible without

1.2.13

• Fixed a case of attacks slipping through while actor is in parry stance.
• Improved stuck animation detection and prevention

Today is a patching day apparently

[inner hare]

At least it's the last one ||so far||

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-homer-simpson-simpsons-worst-day-of-your-life-so-far-bart-gif-11689059539835963602

And yeah, fixed that typo in the settings

[wet tendon]

I would just leave it as it is and make a toggle for ngarde and miss feedback

[inner hare]

there is already such a toggle in N'Garde

same day

[tough juniper]

keeps on happening its nuts

[wet tendon]

oh

[tough juniper]

Lol that's exactly why it should its own mod, even just to let people know it's in n'garde

[rustic latch]

And it's on by default

[rustic latch]

Completely opposite philosophies for these two. Yet another always hit (and for player only ) vs miss feedback

[remote gazelle]

I’m actually pretty psyched about the miss feedback separate mod!

Working on a vanilla+ modlist and this will fit really well

NGarde is fantastic but it’s features aren’t exactly vanilla+ material

[rustic latch]

Imo they very much are. That's my vision of what vanilla combat would've looked like if had another year or so

but, I acknowledge that opinions may differ 😅

[inner hare]

Well, it'a not sth you would add to I Heart Vanilla. It fits most modlists, though... while Miss feedback fits every modlist that doesn't have N'Garde.

Also, you are selling yourself short. If Todd had more time and money, TES3 could end up more like Oblivion combat and that... wouldn't be good

[rustic latch]

I dunno. Imo the team that was making tes3 specifically would've went with something similar to what I did

This was the whole design premise behind N'Garde after all. Though I admit, I may be wrong

[inner hare]

Note that dif between MW and OB is only 4 years

But the team was a bit different

[kindred imp]

And they weren't desperate

[remote gazelle]

or maybe "vanilla" was the wrong word choice, let's go with "purist"

[rustic latch]

Fair

[remote gazelle]

N'Garde is certainly vanilla-friendly and fits seemlessly into the game 😄

[rustic latch]

But yeah, Pretty much the reasoning that convinced me to release it as a standalone

I'm also unreasonably proud of that thumbnail

[inner hare]

True hardcore purists would even reject TR

[rustic latch]

True hardcore play oldwind without mwse/mge

[inner hare]

Yeah. No fanfics, no overhauls, no rebalancers. Only texture upscalers and only up to a point.

[remote gazelle]

i actually consider myself a graphics purists lol

[rustic latch]

Imma just post this here too for a sec :P

[remote gazelle]

i refuse to play morrowind with anything but its charming vanilla textures 😄

[inner hare]

I don't use visual "overhauls" that radically change the game'a look, but upscalers, enhancers, OMW shaders etc. make the game look far better.

[rustic latch]

It's all a matter of taste tbh

I can't stand mackom's heads for example

just look weird

[remote gazelle]

true, shaders and shadows and the like are fine

[remote gazelle]

hard agree

[inner hare]

What is it?

[remote gazelle]

and ive always hated better bodies

[rustic latch]

The head mod TO uses iirc

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/47481 and derivatives

[remote gazelle]

dont understand why its the standard for body replacers and why so many armor mods require it as a master 🫣

[rustic latch]

Or are you asking why? _ dunno - just don't look good to me - square headed dunmer never looked right

[rustic latch]

VSBR and familiar faces

all the way

[remote gazelle]

YESSSSS

10000% that is the way

[hearty scroll]

Mackom's heads are the best quality there is. Sadly, they all follow a specific design direction, and I wish there were more head/face mods that were compatible to add more variety and styles (also, why oh why did they use that Skyrim elven forehead/brow design)

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/aku-gif-27068475

^ the design direction

[rustic latch]

They are quality, I agree. But also heavily stylized and not in MW style at all

both meshes and textures

[hearty scroll]

Which is why I wish there were more head/hair/face mods that were compatible

[remote gazelle]

I'd rather play with no head replacer than Mackom's

It really does not fit the MW vibe like at all

[inner hare]

Yeah, not sth I would use. I don't vibe with most head replacers nowadays. Seems that it's sth that became universal because 15-20 years ago Better Heads was a very popular mod. Nowadays most MOMW lists stay true to Vanilla look.

[remote gazelle]

It's unfortunate that its ingrained in so many other mods :/

I'm pretty sure Danae's Friends and Frens uses the on some of the companions and they just feel so out of place

[hearty scroll]

It may not fit vanilla, but so don't many other head mods out there. It does fit morrowind depending on how you modded your game though. At this point, there are a ton of morrowind visual styles out there

[inner hare]

Yeah

[tropic fulcrum]

morrowind style characters = vomit

I will die on that hill

[inner hare]

Dunno. You get used to it.

[tropic fulcrum]

I couldn't

[hearty scroll]

I also dislike vanilla characters as a whole.

[tropic fulcrum]

morrowind is a beautiful world

[hearty scroll]

The realisation at least

[tropic fulcrum]

until you see a character

[kindred imp]

fax

[remote gazelle]

naaaah, have you ever played Oblivion

Now that is ugly lol

Morrowind is beautiful 😄

[tropic fulcrum]

oblivion ok the issue with oblivion is the lazy generated characters

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/tuskin-raider-sandpeople-starwars-lets-get-him-gif-14234025660803459291

[inner hare]

https://tenor.com/view/oblivion-indeed-oblivion-indeed-gif-27376941

[kindred imp]

I'd even go as far as to say that it's an unsalvageable case

[tropic fulcrum]

there are mods for oblivion that restyles the faces and make them look fine

[kindred imp]

[inner hare]

TES4 would require a remake.

[hearty scroll]

I honestly liked oblivion when it came out. Graphics, and especially character creation. At the time I felt it was a huge step up from vanilla morrowind bodies and heads (I didn't know about mods at the time)

[rustic latch]

Ugh, I don't know. TES4 actually has some decent face/body replacers that fit the style but look good

[kindred imp]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-back-dog-golden-retriever-back-golden-retriever-scared-golden-retriever-disgusted-gif-26048691

[tropic fulcrum]

morrowind needs chargen

dynamic one I mean

for openmw 1.00

alongside vulkan api

[rustic latch]

Get Come on that

[rustic latch]

if anyone can - it would be Come

[hearty scroll]

I used to dream of that since... Forever actually huhu

[tropic fulcrum]

https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/51121

[rustic latch]

yup, and it looks decent

if we make some allowances for the game's artstyle

[kindred imp]

hm

[rustic latch]

and limitations

[kindred imp]

I'm impressed

though this is still comedically bad

[tropic fulcrum]

whoever made vanilla faces for oblivion was high on some sorts of drugs

[rustic latch]

Was just checking my old TES4 modlist, and that's what I've used:

[tropic fulcrum]

I just followed pushthewinbutton guide

lol

great modder

for both oblivion and newvegas

[rustic latch]

The "scaling unclusterfuked" is a must too lmao

[inner hare]

I don't mean just the faces. Oblivion would require a total overhaul to make it good and feel like a coherent Morrowind successor. Everything from worldbuilding to graphics would need to be changed. There would still be an Oblivion Crisis... but the rest would be different.

[tropic fulcrum]

I don't care about being consistent with morrowind that much any longer

I want it to look diverse

[rustic latch]

Neither do I tbh. I view them as completely separate games

[tropic fulcrum]

only hope for that is skyblivion but things are going rough for them

[rustic latch]

Bleugh

No

[kindred imp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1126777241465000019.webp?size=96

same energy

[remote gazelle]

I've honestly abandoned following such projects

[tropic fulcrum]

it's basically 90% finished but the final touches are all misisng

[remote gazelle]

I learned about them like over 10 years ago when I was still in middle school

[tropic fulcrum]

some projects succeed tbh

skyblivion will release

it's just a matter of what state it will release in

[inner hare]

It is a different game and it would look diverse because Cyrodiil is nothing like Morrowind. What I'm saying is that it would be more like Project Tamriel than TES4.

[tropic fulcrum]

that would require a totally different oblivion all together

[inner hare]

yes!

hence the remake

[tropic fulcrum]

I am talking about working with what we have

[inner hare]

ah

[rustic latch]

Same, honestly. Also - I dislike the core of skyrim. A lot needs to be done to it to make me play anything on it

[hearty scroll]

I will likely play those, but will remain on TES III. Who knows, maybe with skyblivion I'll finally finish oblivion's main quest ^^

[tropic fulcrum]

skyrim honestly has great gameplay mods as of recent

[hearty scroll]

I never saw akatosh except in. Videos

[tropic fulcrum]

it's just the core of the game itself that sucks

so something like skyblivion is an excuse for me to try those

[remote gazelle]

I was a pretty huge Skyrim fan back then, but after switching to Morrowind, I can't really go back

[rustic latch]

I've first played it about a year after release

[hearty scroll]

To me, the writing it that game's main problem. Hard to mod that.

[rustic latch]

it was the first TES that got me bored

[tropic fulcrum]

yup

[rustic latch]

Like skullcrushingly bored

[inner hare]

Skyrim has great mod in general. It's just that the core is pretty meh as an RPG.

[remote gazelle]

It was my first TES game so perhaps its different for me

[rustic latch]

Nah, I get that

Just sharing how it was for me

[tropic fulcrum]

skyblivion artistically will look great this is all I know about it because I have a friend who works on weathers and such

skywind sorry*

[remote gazelle]

Its great as an openworld game, not a very strong RPG

[rustic latch]

I don't know. I disagree with a lot of their art direction

[remote gazelle]

With mods it was pretty fun! Could shape it into a somewhat decent RPG

[rustic latch]

Couple years ago they've shared their bonemold designs

and ...

[tropic fulcrum]

"years ago"

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-joe-pesci-pesci-what-gif-10718026964868693743

[remote gazelle]

but yeah, after discovering Morrowind, making the switch back to Skyrim is hard

[rustic latch]

Maybe 🤷‍♂️

[tropic fulcrum]

a lot has evolved since then

[rustic latch]

We'll see if it ever releases

[remote gazelle]

I'm not up to date... what did they do to bonemold?

[inner hare]

POV: me when I see: 1) Oblivion faces, 2) Skyrim armors, 3) ESO in general

[rustic latch]

It's been years, I don't know if I can find the exact showcase

[tropic fulcrum]

me when I gawk at morrowind characters and their sausage hands

[rustic latch]

give me a minute

[remote gazelle]

your MW hate is distasteful 😂 Blasphemy!

[tropic fulcrum]

only 1 aspect

[hearty scroll]

I'm not even sure about that. Depending on how you mean it.

The fact that each faction is located in only one place, and they ignored the rest of the world and other factions as though they were their own little bubble is the major problem to me.
Going back to morrowind where factions intermingle, not only acknowledge each other but also interact, is refreshing. Immersion wise, much better imho.

That and the main quest being all urgent and discouraging you from exploring this open world and it's other content (at least, as far as writing is concerned) are the game's two biggest weaknesses imo.

[rustic latch]

Nah, can't find it. And what I see that is recent looks much better

[hearty scroll]

It's like they wrote all skirim's quest each team working separately as if each quest team was writing a separate, independant game.

[remote gazelle]

Hard agree to everything you just said.

What I meant is more like.... I enjoyed just being a normal joe in the game and just walking from like Riften to Windhelm, and seeing the world interact with itself via events. Granted, it was a modded setup.

But you'd have things like Guard patrolls bordering cities who would suddenly be involved in a skirmish with a bandit attack

Or two oppossing factions spawning NPCs closeby and going to war

[hearty scroll]

Yes, on the action side of things, skirim is good. Physical/mechanical world immersion is a strong point.

[tough juniper]

I will die on the hill of morrowind's beauty, but having done all this animation work.. damn, those sausage fingers...

[remote gazelle]

Or you'd get robbed by a random thief, and chase him into the city and the guards would notice and chase him too

Stuff like that

[remote gazelle]

The Morag Tong armor looks fairly faithful

[inner hare]

seems ok

although I think that Skywind is usually meh with equipment

Skyrim engine...

landscapes and locations in general look much better

[rustic latch]

Nah, I realize my assessment was out of date

[tough juniper]

I'm more interested in Beyond Skyrim, the way they are realizing the later version of mw

[rustic latch]

but still - there's a reason I don't follow Skywind these days anymore

https://tenor.com/view/its-been84years-titanic-rose-dawson-gif-5372593

[tropic fulcrum]

these people don't get paid like devs do

so

[rustic latch]

🤷‍♂️

cool

[tropic fulcrum]

it's like tamriel rebuilt

[tough juniper]

You can play TR though

[rustic latch]

And if TR didn't release anything in last 14 years - I'd not follow it either

[tropic fulcrum]

I mean, we are talking about remaking an entire game in different game engine

[rustic latch]

All of that is fair

but wake me up if it's ever done

[tropic fulcrum]

all I know from my friend who is working on the project that it's getting done slowly but surely

[remote gazelle]

same. lost all interest in the project due to time passed lol

[inner hare]

I dunno. Nowadays there is a new TR release every year.

[tough juniper]

Yeah it's a heroic endeavour, in a similar way as the folk making the elden ring version. I think they have done a great job but I'm not too excited by the idea of a remake. That's why BS seems cool

[tropic fulcrum]

again, different beasts

[remote gazelle]

even then like... the moment is passed (for me). My hype for the project is gone 😂 I've moved on to other things like TR and SHOTN and PC

[tropic fulcrum]

skyblivion for example is literally like 90% done

but they need the final touches

balancing, fixing the rest of the bugs, fixing smaller quests ..etc

[rustic latch]

They've been saying that since 2024

Literally

in the release date announcement video

[tropic fulcrum]

well, the issue is, they have people leaving and recruting ..etc

certain divisions are finished while others need final touches

I wouldn't know how to coordinate a group effort like that myself tbh

[tough juniper]

I wan to get hold of the soundtrack that seemed lush

[tropic fulcrum]

all I will say is

skyblivion before TES6 for sure

[tough juniper]

Yeah it's truly impressive how much was done for a volunteer project

They clearly have some passion

I heard their gonna shadow drop fnv remake

[tropic fulcrum]

FNV group projects now that's a massive fucking disappointment

[hearty scroll]

I wouldn't say I lost all interest. I merely stopped keeping an eye on it when I realised Skywind would take WAY longer before it's released,
And then I realised that even if it held all its promises, it wouldn't have PTR, and that's why nowadays, I predict I will play it, but remain on TES III

[tropic fulcrum]

I remember caring for fo4nv

[remote gazelle]

ok but thats an easy bet to make 😂

TES6 is currently a dusty folder in a box in a flooded basement at this point lol

[rustic latch]

lmao, I do too

[tropic fulcrum]

well, I heard they are hiring plumbers to fix that flooded basement

so fingers crossed

[tough juniper]

As metaphors go...

[sour cipher]

me too, they look out of a different game

[tropic fulcrum]

they look just right in a heavily modded game

which I do run

[rustic latch]

No they don't :P

If you like your square heads - you do you

but no they don't

[tropic fulcrum]

so which one do you prefer? carrot heads or fuller more pleasing heads?

I know my answer

[rustic latch]

[tough juniper]

It looks like taping photos on to a comic book

[hearty scroll]

The thing that kills my TES VI hype is what the studio has released building up to it was all shitty. The recent Oblivion remaster that couldn't even bother to fix OG bugs (that's not asking for much, not talking about profound improvement, just... At least fix OG bugs before adding some new ones?), really doesn't inspire any confidence.

[rustic latch]

76, Starfield, TES4 remaster - 🤮

banger after banger

[sour cipher]

this https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/51214 or just facelift / familiar faces

[tropic fulcrum]

tes4 remaster is the least bad

[rustic latch]

Of recent games that are of TES-ish formula

I recommned Fall of Avalon to ya'll

it's smaller

but it's great

[tropic fulcrum]

westly's races redone ..etc are all great but they work better on rober's bodies and I am lost trying to wrap my head around different versions

I wouldn't call avalon smaller

[rustic latch]

In scope

[tropic fulcrum]

it's a big game

[rustic latch]

and it's more focused on the main quest

but it's a strrength of it

[tropic fulcrum]

if you do everything

[hearty scroll]

Robert's body is best body for me

[tropic fulcrum]

with all the new content and dlcs

[tough juniper]

Pluginless vsbr ftw

[tropic fulcrum]

robert's bodies are the best I kind of agree but again, it's the gathering of all mods in one place

[sour cipher]

I can't wait for Caleb to release his seamless vanilla body replacer with tons of UV fixes and all

[rustic latch]

I haven't even done the DLCs yet,

[tropic fulcrum]

told you

big game

I haven't finished the game myself because of the constnat updates

and performance issues

because open world unity engine non dx12

[tough juniper]

I was considering adding nudity to vsbr by directly copying textures from daggerfall player character sprites

[rustic latch]

I did 2 full playthroughs - plus 2 runs through act 1 pre-release. So letting it rest for a minute

[tropic fulcrum]

crazy combo

[rustic latch]

Isn't there a nude patch out there already?

I think I saw it when I was looking for VSBR TR compat

[tough juniper]

I don't know lol

It wouldn't be like that if it is

[rustic latch]

Fair

DF sprites would be funni

[hearty scroll]

What's vsbr?

[tropic fulcrum]

truth of the matter is, mackom + betterbodies combo or races redone westly whatever + robert's bodies are the best combos out there

[rustic latch]

Vanilla Style Body Replacer

[hearty scroll]

Makcom + Robert's bodies

[rustic latch]

You're entitled to your wrong opinion

[tough juniper]

Better bodies is legit rough looking mod

[tropic fulcrum]

better bodies is good looking but needs fixing

[remote gazelle]

roberts bodies are OK but VSBR is better IMO

[tropic fulcrum]

I want to annoy someone to fix and improve it but donno who

[tough juniper]

Yeah maybe if it had a whole redesign but it basically would need to be a whole new mod

[remote gazelle]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/45993?tab=files

[tropic fulcrum]

also, can we be real

the torsos look weird

[remote gazelle]

morrowind in general or what do you mean

[tropic fulcrum]

morrowind

[tough juniper]

They don't look realistic but their not supposed to

[remote gazelle]

It's a mark of its time 🤷‍♂️

[tough juniper]

No it's a design choice

Its like a cartoon

[remote gazelle]

also true

[tropic fulcrum]

it doesn't fit the more serious world its in

[tough juniper]

Its supposed to look that way

As in the art team had a vision

[remote gazelle]

and better bodies does? 😅

[hearty scroll]

Pass. Sorry, I'm not sold 😅
Personal taste and all that applies, obv.

[remote gazelle]

also graphics style has nothing to do with tone of the world

[tropic fulcrum]

I mean, which one would you take? a more realistic body or block of cheese?

[tough juniper]

Serious world? With giant mushrooms and floating flame head men?

[tropic fulcrum]

yes it is

[remote gazelle]

there are lots of games with "cute" graphics but really messed up atmosphere and lore

[tropic fulcrum]

fantasy elements doesn't speak about the tone or concept art

[tough juniper]

Idk its not goofy but I wouldn't call it more serious than like a graphic novel

Like Sandman or stn

[tropic fulcrum]

it's heavily inspired by dune and the like

[tough juniper]

The old dune

With the flying fatman

And the giant space slug

[tropic fulcrum]

listen big mouth for big pp

[tough juniper]

Eh?

[hearty scroll]

The artistic direction of my modded game doesn't mesh well with the cartoon style. And I don't feel like the rest of even OG looks cartoonish. For cartoon design, I think more of stuff like WoW, where even the buildings looked cartoonish. Morrowind's don't imo.

[tropic fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/dune-villeneuve-sandworm-gif-27467812

[hearty scroll]

Although I definitely agree that realistic is NOT the only way to go as far as visual design goes, in general.

[tough juniper]

Thankthemakerandhiswatersthanksforthecomingangoingofhim

[tropic fulcrum]

the world of morrowind is alien but the actual world design from textures to lighting and stuff is realistic

[remote gazelle]

I think my main issue with Better Bodies is that it tries to be realistic and fails horribly

[tropic fulcrum]

it has issues

[tough juniper]

I'm just saying it wasn't the original design direction, no judgement 👍

[tropic fulcrum]

I am not disagreeing

[remote gazelle]

In that case, I'd rather have an obviously stylized and "cartoon" art style

vs a wannabe realistic replacer that doesnt even look realistic in the first place

[tough juniper]

I just heavily disagree

[tropic fulcrum]

agree to disagree

not a big issue

[tough juniper]

Of course

[tropic fulcrum]

also

fuck

this is n'garde

thought we were talking in general

[tough juniper]

Yeah we got

To

Get

Those

Numbers up

[tropic fulcrum]

lol

wow 15k messages

[rustic latch]

I have the 9000th message

:P

[tough juniper]

You can tell it's a good mod when people just hang out around it shoot the shit

[rustic latch]

https://discordapp.com/channels/260439894298460160/1482416741077356692/1500468106378875032

[waxen cliff]

.arrean

9000 get.
Also, August, may check this out for skill gains:
https://gitlab.com/Arrean/openmwluaparry/-/wikis/Formulas/Skill-XP-Gains

Linked by @​.arrean from #N'Garde. Vanilla-Friendly Parry and Active Block. · May 3, 2026, 12:04 PM

[hearty scroll]

How do you even know ?

[rustic latch]

I was chatting with August about skill gains when I saw the thread is at 8999

[wet tendon]

phew, that took forever to make

[rustic latch]

Whatcha got there?

[wet tendon]

a tool for an old mod called Kalendaar that parses json data converted from an esp file and returns Completionist data

[misty phoenix]

All this talk about melee missing and dodging reminded me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ab4GAslHAVk

[rustic latch]

Oh, nice

[inner hare]

Yeah, I thought it would come out the same year the remaster was released.

[inner hare]

What do you mean? Many people would want to get a piece of this meat .

[tropic fulcrum]

lol

[inner hare]

Already done

[rustic latch]

Ah, shit, forgot to close the polls

[rustic latch]

[rustic latch]

[sour cipher]

Sounds like some of you guys are still unaware that there’s a new VSBR-style vanilla+ body and apparel replacer/fix in the works.

[rustic latch]

Scarf with short sleeves

[tough juniper]

lmao i've always hated that shirt

[rustic latch]

Nice tho, will keep an eye on it

[tough juniper]

yeah that looks awesome

[rustic latch]

Posts from 2025 tho 🤔

[tough juniper]

🧐 hm there's still some useful info around it

looks like their still working on it theres a recent post about inner mouths lol

[rustic latch]

well, something to look foward to

[sour cipher]

Let me look up Caleb's last relevant message, iirc he said he was making progress just not posting much.

[tough juniper]

That's cool

[sour cipher]

he's tackling the clothing, bodies, ears and whatever simultaneously so it's kinda slow

[tough juniper]

Stuff like tht is a step towards better hair culling or beard grpwth

He's doing the work of the nine

[sour cipher]

also no pttr support but he said anything made for vanilla bodies would look no worse on his

since pttr is targeting vanilla bodies and even uses a ton of vanilla meshes as a base, that's not a problem

it's just that according to Caleb, vanilla meshes just don't fit vanilla bodies really well and are overall problematic

[sour cipher]

a comprehensive inner mouth replacer would open up paths towards a dentistry skill and minigame

[sterile zealot]

I can repot that with the latest update, I am seeing actors not stuck in parry stance as much anymore. Great job! Now I’d ask if you could look into why they don’t play the dodge animation on every miss…? If possible

[rustic latch]

If they don't play a dodge animation - then likely you didn't miss - or not hit them at all

Like, that part is dead simple.
There are several things that can prevent dodge animation from playing:

1. They are staggered (hit animation is playing, knockout/knockdown, or paralyze)
2. They are parrying
3. You didn't miss

Listing all that just to make sure you're not seeing normal behaviour

some of dodge animations are subtler than the others too

[rustic latch]

And. Are you telling me you still see them stuck in parry stance sometimes?

[inner hare]

Today I was afraid that I fucked up N'Garde on my potato laptop, but it turned out that I just didn't have the proper launcher options turned on

[rustic latch]

[inner hare]

Yes, truly Toddlike experience.

[rustic latch]

Shame we need to dependt on those, and can't even read them to display a warning

[inner hare]

yeah, it's annoying

[iron lance]

What are your settings.cfg? I want to optimize my stuff -w-" pretty bad pc too

[inner hare]

Won't help her because I run everything on default. It's even OG-like view distance. I've just installed it so I can test stuff while I don't have PC access.

[iron lance]

Fair enough

[inner hare]

funnily enough, the game doesn't look that bad on those settings and with OG view distance. Feels like home tbh. It has a certain charm even though it doesn't hold a candle to modlist-powered look.

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/59154 hey, check out what just dropped

0 idea about balance and how well it runs, but the idea seems interesting

[remote gazelle]

Oooh very interesting…

[rustic latch]

There will likely be issues with mods that also use scripts for combat like N'Garde.

[pulsar creek]

exactly what i looked for when I went to read it lol

[inner hare]

https://tenor.com/view/jimmy-butler-what-am-i-reading-what-am-i-looking-at-guy-looking-at-paper-jimmy-butler-looking-at-paper-gif-10656430272991200421

[rustic latch]

Oh god

globally attached scripts without detach

however

Yeah, it's doing a lot. It will lead to weirdness together with n'garde.

But will sort of work

ideally they'd use interop fields and/or events that I've added, but they don't

as is - a parried attack will still lead to cleave

for example

however - those cleaves are send as hit events, so other actors in radius can parry them too

[remote gazelle]

Would it conflict with the standalone miss feedback mod? 🤔

[rustic latch]

probably best loaded after n'garde, for now unless they decided to use interop

[rustic latch]

nah

nothing conflicts with that

Sent them a comment on nexus

we'll see

[pastel vine]

It's a nice idea but not worth affecting the incredible experience that is N'garde haha

[inner hare]

it's the first version

interop is possible

such mods need to be fine-tuned

[pastel vine]

Yeah definitely

[inner hare]

same with those critical hits

this won't go well with Lucky Strike

like, it will work, but you will probably get both, lol

overkill

[pastel vine]

I do enjoy using lucky strike

[inner hare]

definitely can make you sweat sometimes

😄

[rustic latch]

We'll see how receptive the author is.

Since N'Garde release - we had like a dozen mods that we've worked on compatibility both ways

this is not new

And I've added all that interop stuff specifically for such cases

I can't prove it - but they may have looked at my stagger code too :P

Since they do exactly the same thing - play a random hit animation

although - this makes no sense

they play it on an attack

[inner hare]

I've yet to try out Foxunder's Disarming mod. I will probably try it, but there are enough mechanics already and sometimes I feel that everything may get too unwieldy. The idea is good, though, and I know that it has interop with N'Garde.

[pastel vine]

It does play very well with N'garde

I find it more challenging. It is kinda similar to the experience of getting disarmed in Skyrim

And if you play with unpaused menus it can be dicey haha

[rustic latch]

And we've got interop with disarming mod

[inner hare]

btw sorry if it was asked, but how exactly blocking enchantments works? Like, is it a sure thing with Perfect Parry? Because I saw stagger animations on Volar but I still got paralyzed by Daedric Crescent. Not sure whether intended or not. I never researched this, so if there is a wiki/gitlab link or sth, it may be sufficient.

also, while Almalexia was knocked down, sometimes I saw "miss" type animations playing

I think it was a result of a failed hit roll

maybe a missing check

or sth else

[rustic latch]

Shouldn't be possible - while knocked down - they should be considered "staggered" - hence no miss animations

[inner hare]

maybe it's just Alma

I saw her moving up and down

she was still technically knocked down

with negative Fatigue

it looked as if the mod was playing miss feedback anims

doesn't seem to affect gameplay. Visual glitch only.

[rustic latch]

if activeEffects:getEffect(core.magic.EFFECT_TYPE.Paralyze).magnitude > 0 or
            self:isAnimationPlaying(Constants.staggerAnimations) or
            fatigue.current < 0 then
            self.isStaggered = true
            self.isAttacking = false
            self:tryLowerGuard()
            return
        end

^ that's the stagger

stagger animations also include knockdown and knockout

[inner hare]

she wasn't staggered

ok

she was kneeling after hits

because of negative Fatigue

[rustic latch]

oh

[inner hare]

this is not the same

as "stagger"

[rustic latch]

that's probably a special animation on her

[misty phoenix]

I was about to ask you guys if you've seen it lol

[young aspen]

Interesting mod to keep an eye on

[rustic latch]

this one?

[inner hare]

Yep

[rustic latch]

That'sa knockout/knockdown

should be covered

weird

[inner hare]

Hmm

[rustic latch]

[inner hare]

Same picture

[rustic latch]

can't reproduce

in fact

Almalexia can't/won't play the miss dodge animation

her rig is incompatible

and they were not added

[inner hare]

wat

so what she was doing

[rustic latch]

no idea

[inner hare]

you don't do anything else in your optional omwaddon, right? You only set the flag.

[rustic latch]

yeah, only the flag for her and vivec

[inner hare]

right

then no idea, either

[rustic latch]

I also can't repro - I've set her agility to 20000, played a knockdown animation on her

swung a dozen times

nothing

[inner hare]

oh well

nothing pressing

[inner hare]

what is that sound in the background? 😂

[rustic latch]

a stream

forgot to mute

But anyway - I played a knockout and knockdown on her at 0.1 speed via the console - you see the effect

for her it's the same animation

[rustic latch]

Move Like this author responded. They are planning to look into compatibility. May drop by here, or maybe we'll talk on nexus, but so far so good

[misty phoenix]

What kind of stream? 💀

[rustic latch]

Actually, listening to it now - a fantastic out of context moment

Just watching a guy play Vintage Story lmao

[rustic latch]

We are cooking

[pastel vine]

Very excited thank you for working with him

[wet tendon]

i heard you used a horse as a mech

[wet tendon]

yeah my character's already op enough, interesting ideas though

[pastel vine]

I'll try and get some feedback soon with Move Like this

The author uploaded a N'garde version. I'm going to load N'garde last

[rustic latch]

Nice

[rustic latch]

1.3.0

• Added global, player and fencer interfaces that allow to ascertain actor state as managed by N'Garde and some rudimentary control of N'Garde related functions. See documentation: https://gitlab.com/Arrean/openmwluaparry/-/wikis/Home/Interop-Hooks
• Slightly adjusted attacking state detection on actors and player.
• Changed default for "can Parry creatures" setting to shields only. Existing settings will not be reset.

This should also allow for better compatibility with other mods

[rustic latch]

So "Move Like This" author pushed a full-compat version for N'Garde, needs N'Garde 1.3.0
And fixed thrown weapons.
So we are good now

[pastel vine]

They both go very well together

Thank you

[jagged hamlet]

All your work is very exciting, I hope to try your mod soon enough

[rustic latch]

Not been doing much but this recently. Hope you like it when you get around to it 😅

[jagged hamlet]

yeah, I meant all your work on THIS mod 🙂

[rustic latch]

Yeah, it's been a big one :D

[inner hare]

Hey, you also worked on Can't Touch This!

[rustic latch]

[inner hare]

but on a serious note, this mod is big enough that even if it was the only one you ever made, it would have been enough

and its popularity only proves this

[tough juniper]

it is indeed a banger

[rustic latch]

Couldn't have done it without ya'll

[opaque raptor]

Your mod is going to be absolutely essential for many players ^^
Congratulations 🎉

[misty phoenix]

It's a game changer, really

It single handedly makes the combat better than Oblivion and Skyrim (not that the combat in those games was any good, though )

[inner hare]

Yeah, block system feels much better here

TES4 has wet noodle swords problem. It's very bad there. TES5 is a bit more varied, but I always felt that the devs didn't give the NPCs good enough AI to represent dodging with no hit chance system in place.

[rustic latch]

Tbqh Skyrim is also quite wet noodly

[inner hare]

I think it gets like that on mid-to-high lvls, but it also depends on enemy types. On low lvls most enemies die rather quickly.

[rustic latch]

And that is different from Oblivion how?

Cause iirc it's very much the same. Low levels - rats and bandits and gobbos die in 2-3 hits

then we get into wet noodle territory

[inner hare]

in Skyrim, they use a different system for lvl scaling. More areas have specific lvl ranges and they can also get "locked" if you visit them, so overall you get a bit more variety than Oblivion.

IIRC sth similar was done in Bethesda's Fallouts

Oblivion lvl scaling got so much flak that they had to tweak the system for future games

[tropic fulcrum]

oblivion leveling is the worst thing about oblivion

[rustic latch]

Now that you say it - I remember it

I guess I mostly played Oblivion with "Scaling Unclusterfucked"

[inner hare]

LOTRification is probably just as bad.

[tropic fulcrum]

no

[rustic latch]

so I don't remember how the vanilla feels

[inner hare]

bad

😛

[tropic fulcrum]

I love lotr so I am biased

but leveling is the worst

[inner hare]

in fact, Oblivion is truly ridiculous

I mean, the game gets harder at lvl 20 than at lvl 1 in the same areas, with same enemies!

lmao

[rustic latch]

Honestly? No. I was like 13, just watched all three movies, and didn't yet have media literacy to appreciate that TES4 shouldn't be "just like lotr" but I loved it

[inner hare]

I'm speaking for myself 😉

[rustic latch]

Yeah, hence scaling unclusterfucked is a must

[tropic fulcrum]

but it's a bad lotrification

this is my criticism

[rustic latch]

yup

[inner hare]

you can "save" Oblivion lvl scaling with mods

because they can do a good job with it

it's virtually impossible to unfuck the lore stuff

[rustic latch]

And I love that that mod is literally called that.

[inner hare]

you would have to remake the game

[tropic fulcrum]

dude

morrowind fucked daggerfall lore

[inner hare]

yes

and for the better

DF was still DnD-like

[tropic fulcrum]

at this point

I only care about every game's internal consistency

[rustic latch]

I mean, every next game was a big lore overhaul

[tropic fulcrum]

because I don't want a big headache

[inner hare]

they started doing more unique stuff around TES Redguard time

[rustic latch]

at this point - just view them as separate entries

[inner hare]

absolutely

I do

[rustic latch]

Yeah

[tropic fulcrum]

anthologies

[inner hare]

but if you want to treat them as one big coherent world

it's bad

too many retcons

[rustic latch]

redguard->morrowind hold up a tiny bit

but that's it

[inner hare]

they barely interact

places so far away

[tropic fulcrum]

they are anthologies

[rustic latch]

Dwemer ruins and style

etc

[tropic fulcrum]

loosely shared lore and events

[inner hare]

the point is

it's about the tendency

[tropic fulcrum]

just say it's god head doing

we are all in his dream