N'Garde. Vanilla-Friendly Parry and Active Block.

[rustic latch]

And it will have to stay that way for now

When player attacks we can't easily tell which attack type is being used.

And can't get space coordinates of the weapon at all

Ah, gotcha. I'm playing it on lowervody plus torso. Basically only ignoring arms. Looks weird otherwise

[covert robin]

will there be gameplay implications attached to this or is this all just for the visuals?

the way you're setting it up it seems like the ai will be able to move and fight ontop of dodging? or is it effectively a type of stagger?

[tough juniper]

yeah i see, id like to do some tweaking to get it working right with what you have going on

[wet tendon]

it'd probably be a lot easier if attack types were exposed, I think it only exposes whether or not it's an attack

[rustic latch]

They are supposed to be. They are for NPCs

But

[rustic latch]

Let me know. I wanted to push the update today. But wasn't done with testing yet

[cyan reef]

Nerevar: "You've been at this for hours. Are you done?"
Umbra: <Incoherent shriek of inarticular rage>

[rustic latch]

It should be short enough that stagger is not necessary. "Dodge" is completely automatic and only happens if the enemy attack misses, and the actor is not parrying

No gameplay implications beyond visual feedback for our most beloved morrowind mechanic - the diceroll combat

[covert robin]

mite be cool

will you have to eventually make a new dodge animation for every weapon or do you intend to try and blend it in with existing ones?

[tough juniper]

i dont want to hold you up, but i think this is an improvement

[rustic latch]

I'm in no rush

As I said - still was testing

And thank you <3. Let me take a look

[rustic latch]

Except hold up. This is the sidestep kf? Or did you combine them? Cause that one I wasn't using here

[tough juniper]

oh it just autonamed it when i exported

its the bob and weave

[rustic latch]

yeah, all good. Except the key names are also the same as sidestep now :D. That may be a problem. If I'm to use sidestep in roll

I'll rename them

And also not marked as stop/start O_o

something went wrong on export

[tough juniper]

crap sory i should probably get some sleep

[rustic latch]

Nah, don't worry at all

I really appreaciate the assist

I was going to doublecheck it anyway, and it's something easily fixed in nifskope

[tough juniper]

sweet, yeah its going to be cool to see it all come together

[rustic latch]

I keep missing your messages somehow.

No, maybe, not now. Idea is that these animations should be short enouh and unobtrusive enough that they'll tell the player that "oh you missed" but don't do much beyond that. Hence just a single set used for most cases

With a bit of separation for h2h and armed, just cause we have a smaller subset of animations that look decent for armed enemies

And boom

Fargot here uses all 8 directional dodges made by Dubious and 3 turn/lean made by me

[tough juniper]

magic

lmao

that feels right for fargoth

you should give him secret monk powers

it looks really nice with the combo of the two, he's really shunking and jiving

[rustic latch]

https://youtu.be/aVUaiL6zZMg

In combat it is also much less intrusive

I wonder if I should prevent attacking while the dodge animation is playing 🤔

probably not - will allow stunlocking opponents that you can't otherwise hit

[somber quail]

That is an amazing amount of added dimension to the combat.

[tough juniper]

Yeah damn there's a lot going on, absolute chimema

[covert robin]

most material on voids usually pair the dodge with a counter attack of somesort

[tough juniper]

Cant wait to check out some arena battles with this

[rustic latch]

I think someone else said before too.
What "voids"?

[tough juniper]

'voiding getting hit in the face

[rustic latch]

jfc :D

ok, that makes sense. but no - we are not adding anything more here. Since we are just adding visual feedback to an existing system

PInk, do confirm if that's what you meant

[tough juniper]

Lol probably not right?

[covert robin]

idk myself but you would say void instead of dodging in that you don't move your entire body to avoid an attack, just a portion

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/typing-several-people-are-typing-gif-15407184

[somber quail]

Sorry I'll shut up. I just think things are neat.

[rustic latch]

Nah

I welcome it

[rustic latch]

That gif is usually used when theres a) someone said something dumb and is about to get notes from everyone present. or b) when there's a lot to discuss. So don't worry, and continue

[covert robin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpeiPV-6XNQ

[rustic latch]

Ok, that makes sense. But again - the actual avoidance mechanics in the mod is the parrying and active block.

This excersice with animations is just to give feedback to where there was none. Still swoosh, still nohing happens, but the enemy visually moves out of the way.

[covert robin]

yes

[candid wren]

Been got for a awhile because my old laptop borked but now this looks amazing for non connecting attacks/ misses

[rustic latch]

Thank you!

This is going up soon. Been a lot of changes between current in-dev and what's released on nexus, so need to test a bit more to make sure nothing is fucked

[simple bone]

If you want Counterattacks on a dodge - my Fighters Guild perks have you there, though no animation, so can be clunky

But this is looking incredible Arrean

[rustic latch]

A lot of credit to dubious for the animations

[simple bone]

Of course!

But yeah, it adds a lot to the feel of combat

[inner hare]

Meanwhile some random unrelated bug:

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-sneaky-key-lock-door-tom-cat-gif-27616110

[rustic latch]

That's what last two days looked like yes

[rustic latch]

O_o

So ugh.
@here
Anyone had any issues with parrysparks.nif crashing your game?

[hearty scroll]

Neither me nor the friend I recommended the mod to had any such issue.

[inner hare]

cat meme

[rustic latch]

My current guess is they are running some fork, maybe the "free fps" one

🤷‍♂️

[tough juniper]

I run that and have not had an issue starting up the game

[rustic latch]

hmmm

well. I've told them to update to RC and asked about the fork. So will not worry about it until they respond

[hearty scroll]

Just for reference, I run 0.50

[rustic latch]

Good to know

Which is why I'm thinking it's either old 0.50 or some fork, or whatever else

but we'll see

[inner hare]

I did all testing on 0.50.0 btw

never had a crash

[rustic latch]

I've switched to 0.51 halfway through March.

[inner hare]

in theory, nothing here should be impacted?

[rustic latch]

So yeah, I think we have a good spread of 0.50 and 0.51 and no such issues

[rustic latch]

yeah. I've originally wanted some new functions of the Animations interface

but in the end did it another way

[rustic latch]

1.2.0

• New animations, most of them by Dubiousnpc.
• Almalexia (warrior version for the bossfight), now can parry. Animation by Dubious.
• Goblins that have shields now can block. Animations by Dubious. (TR, TD, CYR, Tribunal etc goblins affected). Beware, cause tribunal gobbos have 90 block (yes it is ridiculous). Goblin brutes/berserkers still blacklisted and generally gobins don't use weapons to parry. Animations by Dubious.
• Miss feedback animations by Dubiousnpc and myself. Now when you miss an attack (even with glancing blows enabled) NPCs will do a little dodge move for visual feedback. Only humanoid enemies so far.
• Optional omwaddon THAT HAS TO BE DELTA MERGED to add isBiped flag to Almalexia and "can use weapons" flag to Vivec. The flag is omitted in vanilla Tribunal. This is necessary for parry sparks to work on her. Only applies on a new game. As a bonus side effect - this enabled weapon sheathing for her, so now Hopesfire is visible if carried by Alma
• Arrow deflection with weapons. At very high weapon skill (125 in weapon skill or 90/90 in weapon and block). Player and NPCs can attempt to deflect arrows. NPCs that don't meet skill requirements won't even try. Only perfect parry is capable of deflecting a projectile. Shields work the same as they used to, except NPCs should be slightly better at anticipating the projectile impact.

• Movement controller rework. NPCs backpedaling in combat should be better at navigating and avoiding ledges and corners.
• Complete rework of enchantment parry mechanic that is addressign several bugs with it. Spells and effects that are active on defendant that match the attackers weapon enchantment should no longer be cancelled on parry.
• Debug logging update. Removed quite a few unnecessary init messages. But generally increased number of debug logs visible. Keep them off if you want your log cleaner
• Better threat communication to fencer NPCs from other NPCs and player. Especially for ranged attacks. NPCs faced with a ranged threat will "guess" on when you're going to release the shot and will try to raise their guard in time. Or react to the shot itself and scramble to protect themselves. Whether they will be successful depends on distance and projectile speed.
• Possibly fixed issues with stuck parry animations in certain circumstances
• Likely fixed the issue that was preventing the parry hotkey from working on first install until save/reload
• Optimized VFX nifs.

@real onyx , yo. Enchant issue should be fixed

@here, this was a big one. Seems ok. But please report any issues you encounter

[real onyx]

nice! will check out

[rustic latch]

And again, today was not the day I rememberd to remove specific debug logging. Hold up, let me reupload

Done, same version number

[pastel vine]

Thank you for this update

It looks absolutely amazing

I can't wait to go through it

[rustic latch]

I'm sure a couple bugs snuck through. So do let me know if you find any

[pastel vine]

I will thank you for the hardwork

[rustic latch]

🙏

[uncut sun]

is the miss anim toggelable?

[inner hare]

Looks like a great update

[rustic latch]

Not at this time. Do you want it to be?

[inner hare]

I will install this immediately 🔥

[uncut sun]

idunno, haven't played with it yet. I could imagine others would like this feature. You mod so far has been very vanilla frendly. I feel this is, while pretty cool, a bit of an overstep. It wouldn't hurt to have

[rustic latch]

That's fair. While I do think it's a good thing to have, cause in vanilla there's no feedback at all and it is a very common complaint - I'll add a setting for it and for weapon arrow deflect

[misty phoenix]

I was wondering what the 2 uploads within 7-8 minutes from each other were

[wet tendon]

one day, someone will look at this mod, combine it with MaxYari's lua physics, and use it to play baseball in morrowind

[misty phoenix]

[kindred imp]

Optional omwaddon THAT HAS TO BE DELTA MERGED
But what if I use tes3merge

[inner hare]

Sound is feedback. It's not much, but it's there.

[uncut sun]

It's like that old business adage. That more people will buy ten black sharpies than 10 black and one yellow

[rustic latch]

Yeah, agreed on both counts

[inner hare]

Come is probably on it 😅

[rustic latch]

Come will do anything in OMW except MW, yet at the same time - do absolute magic

Btw if any of ya'll don't have his DaggerFall style 3dMap downloaded - go and do so

[inner hare]

Actually, baseball may be too vanilla for him

[rustic latch]

[inner hare]

And he has spell batting

[rustic latch]

Whicever you prefer. Or are you serious about description needing more clarity?

[kindred imp]

jk

[rustic latch]

alright

[inner hare]

"Use merge tool, e.g. Delta Plugin"

BTW you know that you have different colours for text in Nexus description, right?

[tough juniper]

unreal! this is a beastmode update

[rustic latch]

Mobile users must suffer

Actually check now (it may not refresh right away)

[inner hare]

I think that ctrl+a

And colour change

Solves it

[rustic latch]

but yeah - I've never looked at the mod page from mobile, and it doesn't show up like that from desktop

[tough juniper]

yeah needs bright colours and more bold

[rustic latch]

just did that

[rustic latch]

nice

[inner hare]

Yeah

You want install instructions to be visible...

[rustic latch]

Definitely

[rustic latch]

and tunnel runner gif in top lefft corner uh-huh

@maiden tangle , @hearty scroll

I once again require your assistance:

allow_arrow_deflect_setting_desc: "Allow weapons to parry ranged projectiles, thrown weapons, arrows and bolts. Becomes possible for NPCs and player either at 125 weapon skill or at 90 in weapon skill and block both."
play_miss_animations_setting_name: "Miss combat feedback"
play_miss_animations_setting_desc: "Enables \"bob and weave\" animations on enemies when an attack is missed on them. No gameplay impact, just visual feedback that the attack is not effective"```
Would you please translate these for me?

[inner hare]

Is witchering sth you considered as a toggle? Don't see it in the settings.

[rustic latch]

Not yet

hence me asking for the translation

I'll add both

Honestly, just something I forgot to do

has to be a toggle, but will probably be on by default for both of these

[tough juniper]

is that something you will disable or you just want the choice?

[inner hare]

I will keep it. Conditions make it restrictive enough. Sb somewhere will complain, though.

[tough juniper]

oh for sure

[inner hare]

I disabled weapon parrying of creatures

[tough juniper]

" i put the zip file into my game folder and it doesnt work!"

is creatures meaning non-weapon wielders like crabs etc?

ill probably switch that off too

[rustic latch]

yah. Anything that doesn't get the "fencer script" - by default allowed, can forbid or do "shields only" to match vanilla

[inner hare]

I saw someone shitting on the mod with a post like: the videos don't show parrying cliff racers and bears because it probably looks silly and the mod handles it poorly

Dude, just read

[rustic latch]

I keep it on, mainly cause "why not". But also cause of the goblins and other stuff that is still in the blacklist

[inner hare]

but nothing beats that poster who listed several features which would make the mod balanced while EVERY single one is already implemented

[rustic latch]

I choose not to engage. I've been stalking some of these posts on sites where i have an account, but damn

[inner hare]

good Willpower training

[tough juniper]

just watching the train go off the rails from a safe vantage

[inner hare]

there are enough BS posts that you could make hall of fame

[rustic latch]

[tough juniper]

it just means its a good mod

popular enough to draw in the stragglers

[inner hare]

but there is some good meme-content as well

most popular YT comments

[tough juniper]

lmao that last one

[rustic latch]

That one is mostly cause of the intro title in the trailer

[rustic latch]

"Time to bring MW combat into late 2000s"

[tough juniper]

oh ywah haha

[inner hare]

most important comment was made on the day of release

[rustic latch]

I'm like 90% sure it's someone here in the discord

[inner hare]

no obv @

[rustic latch]

🤷‍♂️

[maiden tangle]

allow_arrow_deflect_setting_name: „Erlaube Waffen das Parieren von Projektilen“
allow_arrow_deflect_setting_desc: „Erlaubt Waffen das Parieren von Projektilen, Wurfwaffen, Pfeilen und Bolzen. Dies wird für NPCs und Spieler entweder bei einer Waffenfertigkeit von 125 oder bei einer Waffenfertigkeit und Blockfertigkeit von jeweils 90 möglich.“
play_miss_animations_setting_name: „Visuelle Rückmeldung bei verfehlten Angriffen“
play_miss_animations_setting_desc: "„Aktiviert ‚Ausweich‘-Animationen bei Gegnern, wenn ein Angriff sie verfehlt. Dies hat keine Auswirkungen auf Spielmechaniken und ist lediglich eine visuelle Rückmeldung, dass der Angriff nicht erfolgreich war.“

[rustic latch]

Danke schön!

[somber quail]

I have to go play test the bejeezus out of the new update, but I have a small request that you consider letting unarmed characters at least TRY to deflect arrows?

Make the timing window really hard. We monk enjoyers are a hardheaded weirdos and we will not complain.

I know there is tons of stuff about the D&D/Shaolin style monk fantasy that are "unrealistic" to a lot of people and they don't want it in their game where you can also wave your hands and fly or swing a warhammer made of hundreds of kgs of meteoric iron like it was a soap bubble wand, but I think it's fair and we monk fans often are overlooked.

[rustic latch]

You're in luck. I didn't forbid unarmed characters from doing it

still same skill requirements 90/90 or 125

[somber quail]

Lol. So you're saying there's a CHANCE.

J/k totally fair

[rustic latch]

Roaring Arena mod for Vivec is silly for it

"slave fighting for freedom" gladiators have 100 unarmed

and 100 block it seems

that's "godlike martial artist" levels

so yeah - you can observe some arrow blocking in real time :D

[somber quail]

I need to start an orchish gladiator style character and finally explore that content.

My healer/monks just don't work there.

I am sure they could do it, it's just not the 'way'

[rustic latch]

Nah, completely fair

Now. I got sidetracked with fixing some issues in "Holidays" mod - so the settings update to make arrow blocking and miss animation will be out a bit later. Also would need to wait on 🇫🇷 translation for new settings.

[somber quail]

I'm eating good as hell. I can wait for the next course no problem.

[uncut sun]

burnt my popcorn 🙁

whoever made the auto emoticon to emoji thing should be keelhauled

Anyway, when i finish the tr module for the armor overhaul i am making i think i will upload it. I would like some feedback. Should i put in nexus or make a thread here?

[rustic latch]

Depends on how ready you feel it is. Definitely make a thread here - I'll be happy to take a look. Other's here I'm sure will be too.

Nexus imo - when you feel it is ready for "general public" and not "fellow modders"

[uncut sun]

i am barely a modder

[tough juniper]

thats so funny because the slave fights used to be depressingly short. now i know who to put my money on

[rustic latch]

They still often lose, but I've seen a few of them knockout ebony armored dunmer

[tough juniper]

i saw one fight that was a naked slave versus an altmer archer in full glass

he didnt even make it across the arena

[rustic latch]

it then takes 30 minutes for them to actually do enough damage to kill the mofo

^ now they have a chance

[rustic latch]

Nah, one of us

[tough juniper]

👆

[somber quail]

Ah yes. The old school unarmed life.

You could wear out an entire mouse bringing down a champion skeleton unmodded.

[hearty scroll]

Sorry, I had RL obligations, couldn't start working on it right away. I'm on it now

[rustic latch]

No worries at all, thank you for your help

[hearty scroll]

Need to figure out how to translate "feedback", and the ingame official name for thrown weapons

I'll probably go with "dodge" instead of "bob and weave" huhu

[rustic latch]

Yup

did the same for UA l10n

and also had trouble with "feedback"

[hearty scroll]

Just to make sure I don't mislead the reader : the dodge animations happen regardless of the source of the attack, right? NPC vs NPC will both activate those animations?

not just player attacks?

[rustic latch]

yup

[hearty scroll]

Cheers

@rustic latch

allow_arrow_deflect_setting_name: "Permetre aux armes de parer les flèches"
allow_arrow_deflect_setting_desc: "Permet aux armes de parer les projectiles, armes de jet, flèches et carreaux. Devient possible pour les PNJ et le joueur à partir du niveau 125 dans le talent de l'arme, ou bien 90 à la fois dans le talent de l'arme et dans le talent de parade."
play_miss_animations_setting_name: "Attaques manquées visibles"
play_miss_animations_setting_desc: "Active des animations d'esquive pour les ennemis lorsque qu'une attaque les rate. Aucun impact sur le jeu, il s'agit juste d'une information visuelle pour indiquer que le coup n'a pas atteint sa cible."

[rustic latch]

Merci beaucoup!

[hearty scroll]

De rien o/

[somber quail]

I just thought of what 'bob and weave' might sound like transliterated to a non-native speaker. Lol.

[hearty scroll]

a litteral translation would be wierd in french ^^'

[rustic latch]

Translating stuff is quite tricky, especially idiomatic bullshit like this one

[hearty scroll]

the one english expression that really threw me when I first read it was "it's a thing". It sounded so ridiculous at first, it made me laugh.

[somber quail]

Sure. It sounds silly to some english speakers too. Yeah. We know. Pretty much most things are things at the end of the day.

[hearty scroll]

I was like "what does it even mean, saying that something "is a thing"? It seems like talking empty words for the sake of saying words without saying anything". I couldn't wrap my head around it.

....Now I use it too ^^'

[rustic latch]

I had similar experience with german "Es gibt" - "it gives" meaning "there is"

[hearty scroll]

Do you mean... as a standalone?

[rustic latch]

Es gibt nur Wasser - there is only water. But literal translation would "it gives only water"

yeah

[hearty scroll]

oh, I see

[somber quail]

Don't get me started on 'It is what it is.'. I find this phrase infuriatingly pointless,

[hearty scroll]

Yeah, the different ways of phrasing/describing stuff is something I find fascinating ^^'

[rustic latch]

it is pointless, so it is

:P

[hearty scroll]

I was about to mention it lmao

[somber quail]

Just say what you really mean " I don't care enough about this to do something" lol.

[hearty scroll]

But after a while I realised it was more or less equivalent to the french expression "c'est la vie", litterally "it's life", expressing the idea that you can't affect the state of things you're talking about

In that sense, it feels more meaningful than "it's a thing", that basically means "it exists"

[somber quail]

Well you guys did invent existentialism.

[hearty scroll]

😅

[rustic latch]

Alrighty then

1.2.1

• Setting to control if arrow deflection with weapons is allowed. On by default
• Setting to control if miss feedback animations will play. On by default

Now we wait for inevitable bugs. Hopefully there's not too many

for 1.2.0 and for 1.2.1

[hearty scroll]

On that note, will have to check on one possible bug on previous version that I see no reason to be fixed in the update (but need to re-read the readme first, to make sure it actually is a bug and not intended behaviour huhu)

[rustic latch]

What was it?

[somber quail]

I am of course just being silly. I rather consider myself an absurdist for the most part.

[hearty scroll]

skill exp gains that seemed wierd/inconsistent

[plucky sorrel]

That was me. Thanks for looking into this and the recommendations. I’m running 0.50 stable release. I have quite a sizable mod list (hence why I don’t want to update to 0.51), which is maybe to blame.

[rustic latch]

Hmmm

That's really odd - since quite a few people played exclusively on 0.50 till now

and I haven't gotten any reports like that

Did you mange to make it working with removing the nif?

[plucky sorrel]

Yeah I run on steam deck tho

[rustic latch]

That, hopefully shouldn't matter

I am on linux myself, and we have a few people that played the mod on android

[plucky sorrel]

Yeah probably on my end. I did delete the Nif and still had crashes. That was before I saw your recs and didn’t realize there were multiple folders it was in.

[rustic latch]

Does what you saw match this?
https://gitlab.com/Arrean/openmwluaparry/-/wikis/Formulas/Skill-XP-Gains

[rustic latch]

yeah it is in a folder for each skeleton that needs it

Actually. That nif was redone - maybe try 1.2.1 and see if that works for you?

[plucky sorrel]

That was my plan, older versions still didn’t work.

[hearty scroll]

Secondary skill would be block, right?

[plucky sorrel]

I appreciate the help

[rustic latch]

main/secondary:
shields - block/block
weapons - weaponskill/block
unarmed - handtohand/handtohand

[rustic latch]

You're welcome, hope we can get it working for you. Also - 0.51 shouldn't break your modlist - I've updated without problems back in march

[hearty scroll]

Nervermind then, it's all fine, this is why I wanted to go re-read it before mentioning it ^'

no bug 👍

[rustic latch]

Excellent, thank you

[hearty scroll]

I missed/forgot that hth didn't use block skill at all

[rustic latch]

It used to early on - I've moved it to h2h/h2h before release but later

[toxic dagger]

Holy update, Just saw it, Bobbing and weaving that looks good ?? Christmas must be early, or late

[hearty scroll]

Also, since you divide exp gain evenly between main and secondary skill, I guess it means block skill takes less exp to level up than weapon skills. parrying with short blade at lvl 30-40 and block lvl ~70, I level up block skill faster than short blade.

[rustic latch]

well, you tell me if it looks good.

[toxic dagger]

My bad, It looks amazing

[rustic latch]

Really can't tell. What I do is literally skillGainScale/2 - I pass the scale in though, not the "value", so the game decides how much progression xp you get

[rustic latch]

Nothing "bad" about you. All good - just reposted the vid, in case people didn't see it

[toxic dagger]

Absolute fire, updating it right now since I'm starting a new run anyways (See ? I read stuff this time)

[rustic latch]

N'Garde. Vanilla-Friendly Parry and Active Block.

[maiden tangle]

aktuall there is a German meaning for this and is used as an equivalent term in boxing.
Though I thought that it still wouldn't fit reall, so I dodged it in the translation.
The word is Tänzeln and could be translated back into a combination of dancing + jittering/fidgeting, but the latter being more elegant in the meaning.

Hmm I also found direct translations for this. Does anything sound right to you guys?
to sashay
to prance
to mince
to skip
to trip

[hearty scroll]

I don't know all of those, but those I do don't feel like they fit to me

To prance and to skip : I've only ever come across those expression to describe someone's way of walking/behaving in a social setting. Not in the context of fighting

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/father-ted-jack-frolicking-gif-7227415

^prancing

[covert robin]

so what next?

[hearty scroll]

the only meanings I know of "to mince" and "to trip" are probably not the ones that are meant here, since they have nothing to do with one's movements (well, to trip is to lose balance/fall after a misstep, so I guess it's tangientially related)

[rustic latch]

You're an impatient one, aren't you?

Bugfixing probably

Then I want to get back to roll fork for a bit and fix some stuff for controllers,

Then - I have an idea that may be completely harebrained, but

[hearty scroll]

like, I only know of "to mince" as meaning to shred food into very small bits

"sashay" I'm not familiar with

[maiden tangle]

Yes, that would be also called tänzeln as well as the bob and weave. It can be considerd childishly uncool and seriously cool, depending on the context and style of movement, just like regular dancing ^^

[maiden tangle]

Since you'll include the new animations from dubious for the sidesteps I assume, will you make it an option in your fork to switch between the double tapping and using a hotkey? I currently can'r decide what I'd like to use more and it really depend to the context (or heated combat), so I switch back and forth between the original mod and your version

[rustic latch]

It is currently an option in the latest released archive

[hearty scroll]

That leg movement/way of walking is what I've always seen called "skipping". I mean, prancing might apply too in this case, but it feels more related to the general behaviour (Iirc I've also seen "prancing" used in context of someone being proud of something/showing off), but I always though of "to skip" as a specific way to walk, regardless of the person's general behaviour

I might be completely off ^^'

[rustic latch]

"to prance" is idiomatic. A horse may more generally "prance". I don't know it doesn't generally read as "prideful" to me

but not as silly either

in heraldics "prancing" animals are usually called rampant

https://tenor.com/view/horse-dove-playing-gif-15198821

^ this

[maiden tangle]

I see, haven't checked the latest version, sorry 😅

[rustic latch]

but when applied to human - it implies silly "hop, skip" behaviour

[hearty scroll]

I see

[maiden tangle]

The Prancing Pony is translated to Zum Tänzelnden Pony ||you probably know the source ;)||

[rustic latch]

Yeah

[rustic latch]

And no worries, but it should be in settings. If it's not - I'll poke at it later today after I get dinner

[eager crane]

Morrowind is fixed ✅

[rustic latch]

I wonder how many purists will come after me for this one :P

[eager crane]

let them come 🤺

[rustic latch]

[hearty scroll]

In french they translated it "poney fringant".
"fringant" means full of energy, very reactive and attentive and quick.

[rustic latch]

Alot of heraldry speak is french. What would you call "a lion rampant" on coat of arms?

[fair wing]

Awesome

[hearty scroll]

I know next to nothing about heraldry huhu

[rustic latch]

90% of credit to dubious, only 3 of 11 possible dodge animations are mine

[inner hare]

Are you crazy? 😮 Clearly there should be no visual feedback for misses. Otherwise, it's not Morrowind anymore! What's next? Sekiro parry????? 100% hit chance???!!!!!! If Emperor Todd truly intended for the actors to dodge, he would have implemented that Himself. If Todd omitted that, it means that such was His Divine Will and we need to respect that.

[rustic latch]

[maiden tangle]

And you are still going strong on the mainland front of fixing Morrowind

[eager crane]

just removing the fog from the mainland

[rustic latch]

:D

[inner hare]

fog is also inherent to the True Morrowind Experience!

🌫️

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-patrick-star-peak-cinema-absolute-cinema-gif-2419960068189387292

[rustic latch]

Guess which mainland city I'm in :P

[kindred imp]

Racoon City

[maiden tangle]

"Is Khajiit becoming sober? Sugar must have lost its effect, Khajiit can see the mainland in the distance again."

[hearty scroll]

Bal Foyen

Wait no. Arvud? Idk 😅

[rustic latch]

:D Akamora

[hearty scroll]

lmao

Haven't spent as much time in that one (that's my excuse)

[rustic latch]

I mean, I've cranked volumetric fog to stupid value - no excuse necessary

[somber quail]

They are all kind of feminized TBH.

[rustic latch]

That's.. a bit odd thing to say

[somber quail]

The way the amer-english language has formed around homophobia and implying feminization through words considered 'effete' makes it not odd.

It isn't my belief that causes me to remark that way, but how such words are commonly used.

[rustic latch]

fair

I've not paid attention to that, but yeah, you're right

[somber quail]

It's very upsetting coming into the age of reason immersed in all of the baked in prejudice of our language

[tough juniper]

Its basically oblivion now, so cringe

[rustic latch]

Imma pat myself on the shoulder for a sec, but to me combat now feels better than te4/tes5

No wet noodle swords, better feedback, active blocking/parry that does something and is not "just there"

I'm happy with it

[tough juniper]

I would honestly say it was a mechanical improvement on those games since release. Potentially engaging boss fights? In MY elder scrolls?!

[cyan reef]

And there's feedback for a miss.

N'Garde is exactly what the core combat loop needs.

[tough juniper]

Yeah I'm really looking forward to seeing how it plays and how people react to it

[cyan reef]

I could shove OpenMW with N'Garde installed,and nothing else,in front of some rando's face,and so long as I harp on them to read what the game puts in front of them during the C&E section of the game,they'd probably like it.

[rustic latch]

Not much feedback on this version so far. Except for "whoa the changelog looks beefy"

I mean - people seemed to like the demos, but I'm not sure anyone had time to play much yet

[cyan reef]

I was brought on board by the proper parrying system.
The visual feedback for misses that isn't just a number saying, "You were this likely to miss," is excellent.

[rustic latch]

If I may say so myself

[tough juniper]

It'll take some time I think to get proper impressions

[cyan reef]

While I personally see the merits of the vanilla blocking system,I much prefer the active parries.

[tough juniper]

Bravo muthsera

[rustic latch]

Vanilla blocking system tops out at iirc 60%

[cyan reef]

My hat's off to you,serjo.

[rustic latch]

so you never have higher block chance than that

Which makes sense, but it feels like a stopgap - as if they didn't have enough time to finish it

[cyan reef]

I can see the balance reason for that. And,in a way,it abstracts how,no matter how good you are on the defence,something will always sneak through in the chaos of battle.

But,it's not particularly satisfying,the vanilla way.

[rustic latch]

I mean, with ngarde you will also miss the blocks and get hit, no matter how high skill - or get hit in the back, or catch a stray fireball, etc etc

Imo - we preserve that

[cyan reef]

Until someone like Ongbal picks the mod up. That fucker can no-hit Malenia.

[rustic latch]

Lmao

Maybe

[cyan reef]

Though,that is an extreme edge case. And N'Garde rewards player skill expression,without devaluing character skill.

[rustic latch]

Maybe I should shorten perfect parry windows, now that you mention it. Feels a bit too generous at high skill level

That's one thing I'm still missing. I haven't gotten much balance feedback since release.

So a lot of values are still guesswork, and testing me and Cybvep did pre-release

[cyan reef]

That's honestly the single biggest disconnect I've ever seen with people bouncing off of Morrowind. They're incapable of separating their own abilities at playing the game from the stat sheet that defines what the character can do.

[rustic latch]

Cause it's an action RPG that wants to play like an isometric real-time with pause DnD rpg

It is in a weird space between

and doesn't communicate well either

hitchance. dodgechance etc is completely hidden

as if it doesn't exist

but it does

and you can swing and miss

[cyan reef]

I personally think it plays amazingly well,even without mods,if you meet it on its terms.
But I'm learning that the majority of people who play games refuse to meet games on their terms.

[rustic latch]

I mean yeah - I love it. But I do recognize weaknesses

it is strong in magic and exploration and wrtiting and questing

not combat, not really

combat in vanilla is serviceable and can be easily forgiven given how good the rest of the game is

but it is definitely not a strong suit

[somber quail]

It was perfectly good for it's time, but decades of modern improvements can make older games feel pretty underwhelming in places.

This mod squares a very difficult circle in addressing some of that without taking from the 'purity' of the experience.

Some will suggest this is not the case, but they are in my opinion cranks.

[rustic latch]

🤷‍♂️ It's a mod - They are entitled to that opinion and can just not install it.

I appreciate where they are coming from - the skepticism is understandable as it's a big change,

[somber quail]

I see what you're saying, but it feels like everybody needs to have an opinion of stuff, especially stuff they do not intend to use and it gets tiring.

I don't need to make a federal case about it, but I am not shy about putting my own pushback out into the culture.

[inner hare]

Hot take: I like MW's combat more than TES4's even without this mod.

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/ice-berg-ice-iceberg-gif-608488539345234988

In this community at least

I do too

tes4/5 is again, fine, it's serviceable. But feels off to me

[somber quail]

I liked the unarmed combat of four, which is usually my default offensive skill choice. That counter attack perk had a nice game feel to it.

[cyan reef]

TES4 is wet noodles with no feedback.
TES5 is slightly drier noodles with no feedback.

Guaranteed hits means the only combat balance levers available are durability and damage,and that's just flat.

[cyan reef]

That'd be a hot take on almost any other server. But here? You're in Winnipeg.

[eager crane]

typo in changelog. Literally unplayable

[rustic latch]

:P

[eager crane]

(thanks very much for the update)

[cyan reef]

I'm starting to spread the word.

[inner hare]

They would have to implement way more dynamic blocking and dodging for it to work. Both for the player and enemies. There is also the question of how much you want player's dexterity to influence things vs character's stats. Making it too much of an action game has its cost.

[eager crane]

Arrow deflection with weapons. At very high weapon skill (125 in weapon skill
man, this is crazy

[cyan reef]

Even in games all about dice rolls,people still have their rage out moments over what they deem as "improbable."

[inner hare]

Sometimes balance is BS

[cyan reef]

The classic XCOM example of having your gun's muzzle to a Sectoid's eye socket,but only having a 70% chance to hit. And then you proceed to miss by a full 70 degrees.
Fire Emblem,where you miss that 80% hit,and then the enemy lands a 10% hit and crits on it,killing your Lord.
RimWorld,where a tribal with an Excellent quality Greatbow decapitates your guy in full Cataphract Armour.

[rustic latch]

Can be disabled, but do play with it - I'm quite happy with how NPCs reacting to shoots turned out

[eager crane]

I'm very excited for it. Can't wait to reach 125

[rustic latch]

can do 90/90 in weapon/block

it's either 125 in main skill or 90/90 in main and secondary

[cyan reef]

Are you suggesting that Witchers have,bare minimum,125 Long Blade?

"I hear that a Witcher can parry bolts in flight."

[inner hare]

Implement some anims for it and it will be way better. Weapon jamming, character fumbling, enemy reacting because you are so close. Can be done. Nowadays shouldn't even be hard.

[inner hare]

Yes. If not more. Depends if it's witcher before or after potions.

[cyan reef]

A Witcher is made a Witcher via the Trial of the Grasses.

They're not a Witcher without it.

[inner hare]

Potions

The ones they drink before combat

Not the mutation process

[cyan reef]

Aah.

[inner hare]

Witcher is basically an OP high AGI light armor/unarmored long blade warrior using Alchemy as major skill and magic skills as minor 😄

Block would be high in N'Garde terms as well

[cyan reef]

glances at the armours Geralt can wear across the three games

I know it started as novels,but the author is very much a turbo douche.

[rustic latch]

Bollocks

that last statement

[inner hare]

Proper ones are light. Plate stuff from W3 is BS.

[inner hare]

Highly intelligent and arrogant. I like him.

[cyan reef]

He dips into medium armour quite often.

[rustic latch]

lmao

[inner hare]

In games, yes

[cyan reef]

Honestly,stuff like maille and brigandine would be the most practical PPE for an adventurer to wear.

[rustic latch]

In game representation is a bit weird for that -
as well as the idea of separating armor in light-medium-heavy the way games do

[cyan reef]

Light/Medium/Heavy is more practical than saying, "Wearing and using gambeson,brigandine,maille,splint,and plate are all entirely separate skillsets."

While the latter is undeniably true,it's also an absolute headache to implement as a developer,and to manage as a player.

[rustic latch]

KCD and exanima would like a word

and once we get closer to inventory dehardcoding - I'm bettign we'll see that here too

[cyan reef]

I'm pretty sure Morrowind classifies armour not on any separate flag,but by the literal weight of the piece.

[rustic latch]

Typos fixed :P

[rustic latch]

Eh, it's all in GMSTs

[cyan reef]

Jackchains: Light or medium armour,in Morrowind's ecosystem?

[rustic latch]

No idea, medium probably

[inner hare]

Anything that restricts mobility too much would be useless for a witcher against monsters who destroy such armor easily. It's literally said in the book that nobody can parry a strike of sone big monsters, either, so witchers dodge. No hit Dark Souls combat with no rolling

[rustic latch]

Yup. I've read all the books

[cyan reef]

Funny thing,though. Properly made and fitted full plate won't do anything to impair your agility... provided you actually know how to wear and use it.

That being said,it's still 50-75 pounds of steel,maille,and gambeson,so that's going to present an endurance issue to any non-Witcher.

[rustic latch]

You're exaggarating

While properly fitted full plate is plenty mobile

it's not "doing nothing"

It very much limits the movement amplitude of your arms and legs, your ability to bend etc

It's not "barely walks" like victorian myths imagined, but neither it is "nothing at all"

[cyan reef]

The Victorian stuff,I'm pretty sure,was all jokes that modern people have taken at face value.

But,we'll never rightly know,since there's no one to ask.

People back then weren't stupid. They were just as capable of logic,deduction,reason,and observation as we are today.

[inner hare]

When you are playing a potentially one hit-one kill game and this is what happens vs many monsters lorewise, plate armor would be totally useless. In fact, it could do more harm than good. So witchers go for maximum agility and speed. Note that this style makes it risky and dangerous by definition. If RNG doesn't go your way, it's gg. Geralt got stabbed by a peasant with a pitchfork, after all.

[inner hare]

Dunno, plenty of myths flying around even nowadays. If you romanticize stuff, such things happen all the time.

Look how much BS is said about samurai

[cyan reef]

They were archers first. And the honour was wholly self-serving and easily discarded when practicalities demanded it.

[inner hare]

Myths and legends often mix with reality. Sometimes it's hard to separate fact from fiction.

Funny thing, Morrowind plays with this a lot

Hence multiple accounts and people calling BS in-universe on some stuff

[cyan reef]

Every myth is true.
Every story... less so.

[inner hare]

But hey, Vivec flooding the province after teaching Dunmer water breathing is a fun story 😄

[cyan reef]

Then there's 2090 Sun's Dusk.
Marching a wholeass army under one of the biggest lakes in Morrowind,and losing the battle because your scouts mistook the Wizards of Alteration for Imperial Battlemages.

I'm sure some details in that story are out to lunch.

[inner hare]

2090 series is like our fantasy or maybe historical fiction

[cyan reef]

Note: I might have the title of the book wrong.

But man,that book does not portray Vhek and his forces in a positive light.

[inner hare]

He also didn't seem to be using his powers much there. So you can either go with he-wanted-to-test-himself-as-a-general, he couldn't use them for reasons or it's BS to make a fun story.

[cyan reef]

Or the author's Cyrod.

I'd give it even odds that the author's either Colovian or Nibenay.

[inner hare]

But if the Tribunal was truly almighty, they wouldn't succumb to the Empire.

[cyan reef]

To be fair,they gave a better fight than anyone else,besides the Hist.

[inner hare]

Yeah, sure

Argonia was also the case of a diplomatic treaty

[rustic latch]

Hadn't the invasion and the armstice happen just after the loss of Kagrenac's tools?

[cyan reef]

Reman Cyrodiil conquered everyone else. ALMSIVI forced an armastice. I'm less clear on the details surrounding Black Marsh,but last I checked,Imperial presence there is border forts and little else.

[inner hare]

It was close, yeah. But this didn't make them useless or anything. We meet Vivec and Alma hundreds of years later and they are still crazy strong. If anything, they could be even stronger back then and they still surrendered, although not unconditionally.

[cyan reef]

The terms of the Armistice basically mean that Morrowind is governed by its own traditional law,not Imperial law. In broad strokes,at least. Morrowind is less a province,and more a vassal or tributary.

[inner hare]

It's both Imperial and House laws

It's a mess

Oh, TD adds the Treaty as the item

Wait a second. If it's just Vivec's signature, we should consider whether it's a biding treaty. Did he have the legal capability to represent Morrowind alone? Did Alma and Sotha Sil give him power of attorney or sth?

Maybe it can be ignored 🤡

[hearty scroll]

That's more or less what I did yesterday
Finally convinced a friend to try the game, only added a few graphics and QoL mods + N'Garde. They had a blast playing monk around Seyda Neen ^^'

[cyan reef]

The proof!

[rustic latch]

just as planned

[inner hare]

If they get the basics mechanics and get hooked into the world, it's done. MW has them.

Basic stuff: 1) look at your skills, 2) beware the iron dagger, 3) keep Fatigue high, 4) weapon have no random rolls, charge for stronger hit

[hearty scroll]

Honestly, the problem might be the reading. They struggle keeping focus and getting immersed via text. They also don't want to listen to AI voices as an alternative. We'll see how it goes 🙏

I'm not too worried about gameplay, they managed to kill that mage in addamarsus cave (after dying a few times). With their fists, and no potions huhu

[inner hare]

There. Chitin dagger lady not so strong.

[hearty scroll]

They did get killed by chitin dagger lady the first time. And tried a bit more, then struggled even against the most basic creatures in the area.
Then finally gave up and lowered the game difficulty from maximum to medium. Went back to the cave and killed her easily ^^'

(playing hth and unarmored, with some restoration and alteration)

[rustic latch]

Ah, the pro-gamer move. "Imma crank the difficulty in any game I see" -> "Why am I getting my ass beat"

[hearty scroll]

Not going to blame them for trying ^^'

Also, the lack of visibility on enemy's fatigue bar was rather obnoxious. Made me look up UI mods for the first time 😅 (I like vanilla, but I don't usually play HtH main)

[rustic latch]

Yah, h2h suffers from that for sure

[cyan reef]

One of my favourite runs was a bare knuckle brawler.

[rustic latch]

I need to do a h2h playthrough

I've spent so much time adding features to h2h and I barely ever use it

[inner hare]

HTH on high skill lvl is grossly OP. Especially in OMW with STR scaling on.

[cyan reef]

My first move on that run was to buy training from Caius to Unarmed 60. After that,I went around punching faces in.

[inner hare]

you KO everyone so fast that it's hilarious

[cyan reef]

I had zero alchemical boosts,too.

Still did alchemy,but only for healing and fatigue potions.

And making bank.

[inner hare]

anything that drains or damages Fatigue is a good combo with HTH

cast a spell like that before engaging and you will KO the enemy even faster

[cyan reef]

There's a Poison Weapon mod for OpenMW now.
Imagine if it allowed you to poison your own fists.

[inner hare]

https://tenor.com/view/my-hands-are-registered-as-lethal-weapon-close-fist-tough-guy-action-star-actor-gif-13864590

[rustic latch]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58243 well you can enchant them

[cyan reef]

There's some potential there.

[inner hare]

Wait a second. It's spellsword. Spell. Sword!

[rustic latch]

Cast spells on your weapons (fists too) to enhance them.

[inner hare]

spellfist

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/masters-of-the-universe-id-sure-like-to-fist-him-fist-him-skeletor-heman-gif-23930769

[inner hare]

HTH at high skill lvl:

https://tenor.com/view/goku-son-goku-golden-frieza-frieza-ssb-gif-15540829

you touch the enemy and it's KO 😅

since N'Garde allows parrying, it gives HTH a tool which it lacked - defence. Guess that monks never had it that good.

[young aspen]

I’ve been wanting to do a H2H pure thief

Maybe for WBM and make him my hlaalu guy

Also waiting for OpenMW to allow clothing hats for full unarmored

[inner hare]

I think that I will play HTH Orc

next, I mean

[young aspen]

You could do H2H Imga 😉

[rustic latch]

Just remember:

[inner hare]

I'm thinking of going HTH but not Unarmored. Medium or Heavy Armor.

[cyan reef]

I remember the rest of that advice. Effectively boiling down to, "but only if you like gambling with your life."

Death Curses,yo.

[rustic latch]

🤷‍♂️ who knew that in the world where woo-woos were right mages are wildly OP

[inner hare]

Have you fought an Ogre in the Arena mod?

[young aspen]

I have not

[inner hare]

it's an experience

when the fight started, he closed the distance in like 1 second and KOed me in 2 hits

then it was death in 2 next hits

he got some HBFS boosts as well

[somber quail]

Welcome to the wonderful world of HtH. It's where I live. Not quite what you asked for, but IMO very balanced and necessary.

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58583

[somber quail]

People say that but I politely disagree. It's not that it's not powerful, per se, just that it takes just absurd amounts of time to bring down high tier targets.

I have punched through many left mouse buttons in MW.

On paper the stunlock and stuff looks good, but in practice you wind up repeatedly punching people who pop up and down every 3 seconds for like 15-60 seconds a pop depending on fatigue values.

And armor? Forget about it.

Thank goodness for mods like Iron Fist.

[regal egret]

The fatigue drain on hand to hand really is absurd
At 100 HTH and 100 Str, you can KO anyone in 4 punches, armor is ignored

[wet tendon]

or "when your level 132 redguard warrior/priest hybrid with 2130 hp almost gets oneshot by a level 60 dunmer because you cranked difficulty up to 300% and have HBFS set to full blast with a critical strike mod"

[candid wren]

Idea - Daggerfall had reflexes, you could retroactively have a setting that tiers all settings into three separate levels, cat/afliq: enemies will focus more on attacking rather than blocking and parrying, wolf/nixhound: enemies will have a balance of attack, blocking and parrying, bear/ogrim: enemies will block and parry more effectively than attacking overall. Or if the player likes the base function of N’Garde (what you have already) the option is there, or have these three be tied to the different races, truly just spitballing

[hearty scroll]

Cheers. We'll see if my friend needs it.
For ennemy fatigue bars, we found this :
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58505?tab=description

[rustic latch]

That... Is probably more than I want to do with behaviours if split by race. Quick mode already kind of covers slower enemy reaction times, but maybe a decent idea to have that as a setting independent of guard state change? 🤔

[fickle crown]

I like that magic can only be dodged, so you dodge and attack, dodge and attack, I like that

[uncut sun]

It does exactly this and it sucks. I would know (having looked at literally every single piece of armor weight)

[hearty scroll]

I'm sure it does, but if we go by the name of the classification, it makes sense. That light armour be... light, and heavy armour be... heavy ^^'

[inner hare]

Works ok for Vanilla purposes. Annoying for item overhaul type mods as they have to take GMST into account.

[sour cipher]

Can we have the enemies visibly dodge missed hits like this?

Like with this dice combat no longer feels infuriating.

[rustic latch]

#1482416741077356692 message

[waxen cliff]

.arrean

well, you tell me if it looks good.

Attachment(s)

ultimatebossfight.mp4

Linked by @​.arrean from #N'Garde. Vanilla-Friendly Parry and Active Block. · May 11, 2026, 5:22 PM

[sour cipher]

Damn I missed that thanks!

[rustic latch]

Update went up yesterday

animations by yours truly and @tough juniper

[sour cipher]

The vid shows the dodge anim triggering after the hit lands.

Storm atronach’s mod triggers it preemptively and that looks way better.

[rustic latch]

🤷‍♂️

can't do much about that

[sour cipher]

API limitations?

[kindred imp]

MWSE privileges

[rustic latch]

Sort of. The hit chance is calculated before the animation plays

but I have no way of knowing what it was/is befoe onHit lands

imo it looks good enough, and in actual combat - much more natural

that vid is very much a demo - with fargoth doing nothing but dodging

10000 AGI + 100 sanctuary do that to the mofo

[sour cipher]

Really? Now I must watch some fencing vids.

[rustic latch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVUaiL6zZMg

And this
#1482416741077356692 message

What we are saved by is that "hit" part of animation often happens not when the weapon actually "phisically" lands. So it still looks decent

[waxen cliff]

.arrean

yah, think this is better

Attachment(s)

v2.mp4

Linked by @​.arrean from #N'Garde. Vanilla-Friendly Parry and Active Block. · May 11, 2026, 12:11 AM

[sour cipher]

I wonder if a few anim frames from nonbiped, non-npc creatures’ hurt or wasted anims could be used as improvised dodge anims.

[rustic latch]

At that point may as well redo them. Stilll need to extract the creature nif from the bsa, cut out the necessary animation and re-add it

can't just "play me a few frames of hit1"

[sour cipher]

That’s sysiphean, looking at PTTR and the popular creature expansion mods from the MOMW lists. Unless you could task an AI with automation.

[rustic latch]

it is, hence we only did humanoid rigs for now

It's the bulk of enemies in game, and the mod generally focuses on armed enemies anyway, so good enough for now

[sour cipher]

These days I’m seeing more and more AI gen anims in various small projects, wonder if that could be the solution—vanilla creature anims are clunky and I’m sure an AI will easily outdo that https://youtu.be/j9tYF5T3plY

[rustic latch]

Dgaf, to be quite honest. If someone wants to use a clanker to "get results" - it's not my problem. Not what I'm here for

[sour cipher]

Well if it’s AI or nothing... I’d defo prefer AI unless really bad looking.

[rustic latch]

Nope, but you funeral, so order the music

[simple bone]

The thing is, that it isn't "nothing"

People have already made animations for this stuff by hand

[rustic latch]

For creatures we didn't yet. Someone else may have, but yeah

I get the point, to some very thin extent, but just not going to go down that route

[sour cipher]

Dodge anims for critters?

[simple bone]

I meant animations in general tbh

I wouldn't be surprised if someone in the history of the game has done dodge stuff for creatures. But with the game as old as it is, some mods are lost to time

[sour cipher]

Doing a dodge anim for every vanilla / PTTR mob is something I honestly wouldn’t wish on any living creator.

[kindred imp]

Let's say dodge anims in normal games (get ouf of the way) are not the same as dodge anims in Morrowind (Matrix-style)

[sour cipher]

Making creature anims for MW is so painful I’m pretty sure no one tried. Even MAOP is taking ages to accomplish.

[kindred imp]

what's MAOP?

[sour cipher]

The place for all the modern style MW anims https://discord.gg/anr3ryJj4

[kindred imp]

ah

[sour cipher]

Yeah.

And they use a combination of AI (Cascadeur) and manual work and the results are impressive.

I don’t think anyone will ever attempt to reanimate the critters given how convoluted and user hating the anim / mesh / skeleton format is.

That’s why I think it’s AI or nothing.

[rustic latch]

Couple of them use cascadeur, quite a few use plain old blender

cascadeur is again - does less things with ai than it seems on the tin

But in any case - irrelevant here, more power to em

[sour cipher]

It’s essentially a frame interpolator that you gotta feed good handmade frames into

[rustic latch]

yeah

[rustic latch]

@plucky sorrel any luck with 1.2.1 btw? Or are you still having the issue?

[somber quail]

So what do you think the skill level needed for deflecting bullets will be?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOSrp9j8VR0

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/it's-over-9000-it's-over-9000-its-gif-6159356195145880706

[somber quail]

Fair enough.

[rustic latch]

That said - one day I'll have time and energy to install starwind and make a starwind focused patch to shift around parry sounds and animations so it's more in-line with "cortosis swords and lightsabers"

Not sure when though

I'm told mod works as is on starwind, but sounds and animations are obiously not in line. And "can deflect arrows" should tie into force powers there, not weapon skill imo

[somber quail]

I still have yet to try it. Because I am stupid. I am a huge KOTOR fan and am playing myself.

Also I'm not sure if having a portable openmw install for that and my main one might cause issues.

[rustic latch]

I've not played it yet either, I've fell off anything star wars kinda hard a few years back and didn't pay attention, nor had any desire to, any media related to it

[rustic latch]

🤷‍♂️ no clue

[somber quail]

I was an OT fan so the modern adaptations being... less than desired wasn't such a disappointment for me, but I get it.

But I do like KOTOR.

I think the fans honestly make better lore.

[rustic latch]

I dunno. I just lost all hype and hope when ep7 was just "a new hope, but again"

then it got worse

[somber quail]

It did really seem like that.

[rustic latch]

Oh it very much did

it was almost a frame by frame fanservice

with bits of "remember this" here and there

[somber quail]

Shoulda sprung for the scanline shader and the VHS distortion.

[rustic latch]

lmao

[somber quail]

My brother was a big fan of the OT too. We both said: These aren't our movies. But he would turn colors when he said it, lol.

[rustic latch]

@iron lance . Just noticed you are in the server too. Regarding your comments on nexus. What did you mean by "just want 100% hitchance". From CHIM, or from N'Garde? Cause I'm fairly certain CHIM has it's own 100% hitchance thing, but I do too here

[iron lance]

Wait what

•<•) but you said it wasn't a 100% hit chance mod

[rustic latch]

Did you read the description?

[iron lance]

A bit

I got some mixed signals

But the no 100% hit-chance sounded very final

So I just believed it

[rustic latch]

Can't win with ya'll.

Without that message at the top - everyone though it's just a 100% hitchance mod
with it - you miss the features

Optional - Glancing Blows:

"Glancing Blows" mode, disabled by default. Preserves vanilla hit chance mechanic, but - a missed attack becomes a "glancing blow" deals a maximum of 20% damage and doesn't grant skill XP to the attacker. Time-to-kill is roughly the same, just better combat feedback.
If "strength affects h2h damage" is enabled in launcher - missed h2h attacks lose strength bonus, but instead only get reduced to 40% damage.
Takes "normal weapon resistance" and armour into account.
While disabled, attacks that are missed can still be parried or perfect parried to stagger the opponent.

[iron lance]

I MEAN YEAH, WHEN I SEE A MOD SAYING THAT IT ISN'T A 100% HIT-CHANCE MOD I WILL BELIEVE IT, I DIDN'T KNOW MODS COULD JUST LIE

[iron lance]

That's where I caught the mixed signals

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/read-gif-25879491

It's an optional feature for those that want it

mod is not focused on it

and is not about it

[iron lance]

Fair enough

I am kinda curious, it says it doesn't give exp, but why not make it give like

20% of the exp? •<•

[rustic latch]

no xp

20% of the damage

[iron lance]

I know that

But like

20% damage

20% exp reward for 20% damage

[inner hare]

https://tenor.com/view/aliens-not-aliens-gif-7490627895411782251

[rustic latch]

well, atm - no xp

[iron lance]

Okie

[inner hare]

Ask him if this is Sekiro's parry system

https://tenor.com/view/dew-it-galactic-republic-palpatine-gif-21847982

[iron lance]

Is it?

[iron lance]

I still think 20% exp for 20% damage would be cool

[rustic latch]

you level up weapon skills faster in this mod anyway

you get weapon xp for parrying

exp on miss is very much not needed

[iron lance]

You probably should make it give block exp •-•

Because blocking and shit

That's what parrying is

Active blocking

You block actively, so you get better at blocking

[rustic latch]

...

Ok

go and re-read the mod description first

Alternatively
https://gitlab.com/Arrean/openmwluaparry/-/wikis/Formulas/Skill-XP-Gains

[iron lance]

I mean

Think about it

If you hit someone with a gun

Will you become a better marksman? No, you will be good at hitting people with guns

You won't aim better, you will hit people with guns better though

In real life blocking with a weapon would make you better with that weapon though

That's fair

But what is block for then if the weapons are taking all the exp?

Ok I read the description

That's fair

[rustic latch]

You were suggesting stuff that is already implemented

one way or the other

main/secondary is
block/block for shields
weapon/block for weaoins
h2h/h2h for unarmed

both main and secondary get xp on parry

[iron lance]

20% exp for 20% damage isn't implemented though

[rustic latch]

Yeah, cause if you fuck up the attack that bad you're not learning much :P

[iron lance]

I meaaan

Talking about real world logic

You learn stuff by failing

No one is born walking, you need to fall on your butt a couple of times before you get the right balance

[simple bone]

I think you're missing something here Ayle

[iron lance]

Yeah

I am missing the 20% exp for the 20% damage

[simple bone]

It's not implemented, and they're saying

no xp

[iron lance]

That's why I am missing it

[inner hare]

it wouldn't feel very Vanilla-like if blocking suddenly became the only skill where you would gain skill gain for failing

you do it for everything

or not at all

[iron lance]

You mixed the stuff now

[rustic latch]

they want xp for failed attacks

[simple bone]

Same with weapon xp on miss

[rustic latch]

but
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58925?tab=description

[simple bone]

You don't gain xp for failing anything else in the game in vanilla

[iron lance]

But it isn't miss with the glancing blows

Is just not hitting the guy completely

[simple bone]

Well

Not quite

It's still a "miss"

It just does damage

[iron lance]

Wait, does it work with missing blows?

If yes, I am satisfied

[inner hare]

that's mod description

the one that was linked

[simple bone]

https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-meme-cant-read-Fxiec75Ah35rR0Gezg

[inner hare]

I'm not sure how it works when combined with N'Garde, though

[iron lance]

Yeah, neither am I

[simple bone]

You could

Try

[iron lance]

That's why I asked the question to the N'garde dev

[iron lance]

I will, dam nit

[rustic latch]

should be fine if it's loaded after ngarde

[pastel vine]

Glancing Blows is one of my favorite parts of the mod if I'm being honest

[inner hare]

don't suggest such revolutionary ideas

[iron lance]

I actually really liked the description of that

I was pretending to be dumb sooner here, I knew about glancing blow and I had deleted Chim 2090 after seeing it for the first time

It's a very cool execution of the idea

[inner hare]

I have an idea that will melt some minds and cause some people to sigh heavily...

[iron lance]

Fallout 3 is Oblivion with guns?

[simple bone]

Pretending to be dumb in a contextless online world is a dangerous plan - people can actually believe you

[iron lance]

Yeah well

I don't really care about looking dumb in a Morrowind modding online Forum

It's not like its politics or something that matters

[rustic latch]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-go-on-sarcastic-listening-gif-7666830

[iron lance]

Besides

I am pretty dumb about Morrowind modding

I just know Skyrim modding

[simple bone]

Understandable

[inner hare]

We have Vanilla hit chance option and glancing blows option. Therefore, we need a third one - "Why not both?". Vanilla hit chance works the same as before, but there is a chance for glancing blows which become like critical failure. Interop with Lucky Strike as well - no critical failure if critical hit was rolled.

https://tenor.com/view/masters-of-the-universe-skeletor-mot-u-gif-23595861

[iron lance]

I mean

People could like it

[pastel vine]

I do enjoy combining N'garde with lucky strike

[rustic latch]

What would critical failure do? Drop your weapon?

[iron lance]

Damage your weapon without damaging the enemy

It's pure punishment

But won't leave you unarmed

[simple bone]

I think as in

Critical Failure = 0 damage
Failure = Glance
Success = Hit
Critical Success = Lucky Hit

[iron lance]

It's like you hit the armor or the floor

Or some hard place in the enemy

It also would be cool if this critical failure was tied to the enemies armor value, give a nod to how dodging worked in Daggerfall

Still kinda weird how dodging was tied to the armor value in Daggerfall •-•

[inner hare]

it would do what your glancing blows do

low dmg

20% or sth

[iron lance]

It doesn't sound like a failure enough

[inner hare]

critical strikes in Lucky Strike increase dmg

[iron lance]

It needs to punish the player

[inner hare]

critical failure would lower it

there is a disarming mod already

and it works with N'Garde

let's not mix those up

[iron lance]

Agree

I still like my armor hitting idea

Wouldn't it make sense that sometimes you would hit an armored area that your weapon couldn't penetrate?

[inner hare]

no need to 0 damage because we already have it. It's just when you miss.

[iron lance]

0 damage + you damage your weapon

[tough juniper]

increased stamina cost

[simple bone]

How exactly is the hit calculation rolled?

Does it just roll a 1d100 against the hit chance?

[iron lance]

Omg dubiousnpc hiiii

[inner hare]

huh?

[simple bone]

I mean in Morrowind itself

As in, calculates the hit chance %, then rolls a random number between 1-100

[iron lance]

Isn't it something about agility and weapon level?

[simple bone]

Well that's factored into the hit chance

I don't actually know the specific maths the game uses

[iron lance]

Who does?

[tough juniper]

the psijics

but they wont tell

[simple bone]

I know the maths to calculate the hit chance is (Weapon Skill * 1.25 + Agility * 0.25 + Luck * 0.125) * Fatigue Multiplier + Fortify Attack - Enemy Sanctuary - Player Blind)

[iron lance]

I wonder what they were doing during the Oblivion Crisis.. And the Dragon Crisis.. Also, where were they during the Umbriel invasion?

[simple bone]

Or rather

[inner hare]

In other words, with Why-Not-Both turned on:

• miss when you don't pass the Vanilla hit chance
• standard hit when you pass the Vanilla hit chance
• glancing blow when you roll a critical failure - lowered damage (and maybe increased stamina cost per @tough juniper suggestion), so sth between Vanilla miss and hit
• glancing blow doesn't happen if Lucky Strike is installed and critical hit is rolled (wouldn't make sense to combine them - it's counter-intuitive)...
• ... but critical hit is Lucky Strike's domain so it's left up to the player whether they want to install Lucky Strike at all. If not, only standard hits, misses and glancing blows happen with Why-Not-Both.

[iron lance]

No to my cute armor idea? 🙁

[simple bone]

(Weapon Skill + Agility/5 + Luck/10) × (0.75 + (0.5 × (Current Fatigue/Maximum Fatigue))) + Fortify Attack Magnitude - Blind Magnitude
against
(Agility/5 + Luck/10) × (0.75 + (0.5 × (Current Fatigue/Maximum Fatigue))) + Min(Sanctuary Magnitude ; 100) + Min(Chameleon Magnitude/5 ; 100)

But I'm just curious how the game gets from these two values, to a hit/miss event

[iron lance]

Ooooh

Huh, makes sense

[iron lance]

I believe it's like D&D

If you roll a bigger number than the "armor points" of your target

You miss

[simple bone]

Because this obviously gets 2 distinct values

Like if your Hit value was 100, and their Dodge value was 50. Is that 100% hit chance, 50% hit chance, or 200% hit chance, and what is rolled to determine that

[iron lance]

It's less about luck and more about how "fragile" the target is

Luck is still involved

But still

[simple bone]

This is entirely about luck though - Armour Class in Morrowind is a damage reduction up to 75% in vanilla

[iron lance]

Don't take the armor points comparison too literally

[inner hare]

armor is literally the opposite of luck in Morrowind

it's static

[iron lance]

DON'T TAKE IT TOO LITERALLY

[inner hare]

no DnD BS here

[iron lance]

I am making a comparison, it's obvious the values taken in account aren't the armor ones

[simple bone]

Though a chance to turn an oncoming successful hit into a glancing blow when wearing Heavy Armour or Medium Armour when skilled enough would be cool and scary

[iron lance]

Elder Scrolls IS DnD bs

[inner hare]

nope

it was in Arena

[iron lance]

At least was

[inner hare]

not in Morrowind

[simple bone]

TTRPG/CRPG =/= DnD

[iron lance]

Morrowind is still a sequel to Daggerfall

[inner hare]

...

[iron lance]

None the less

I am talking about the system

Not the games as a whole

[inner hare]

it's nothing like Armor Class in DnD or sth

you don't miss because you wear heavy armor

like in DnD

and lower numbers aren't better, lol

[simple bone]

I get the vision, but it's not the same

[iron lance]

It's not the same, yes

I am just doing an analogy

A comparison maybe? Idk, still, I know it's not the same

You guys are too literal

[simple bone]

It's a text chat, there's no subtext to go off of

[iron lance]

That's why I put "armor points" on quotes

To show that I wasn't actually talking about the armor system, a giving it a sorta of bridged to compare the likeness and such of two different systems

[inner hare]

anyway, purging some OG DnD-inspired stuff from TES3 compared to TES2 was actually one of the biggest improvements ever made by Bethesda. Everything was cookie cutter generic fantasy in TES1. TES2 improved that only a little bit. Mostly still cookie cutter. They tried to do sth different with Redguard. Morrowind was the true revolution.

[iron lance]

True true =<=

The cookie cutter stuff still matters though, I get Morrowind is more fun and definitely more complex

But one doesn't exclude the others

[simple bone]

Redguard, Battlespire, and to a degree Shadowkey, made Morrowind what it is

Even if Shadowkey reads as edgy fanfic

[tough juniper]

i love redguard. i need to go back and finish it

[inner hare]

TES1 Arena even had XP system

XP system in TES

standard XP

that's what it was

[iron lance]

High Rock is still the same High Rock from Daggerfall though •<• it is the de facto medieval™ area of Tamriel with kings and knights and politics

Man, I love Daggerfall politics

[tough juniper]

Arena was Julian LeFey just wanting everyone to play in his dnd world

[iron lance]

A thing that I liked in Daggerfall more than Morrowind and company is how strong the Tamriel politics were focused

[inner hare]

while the inspirations will stay, I'm sure that Project Tamriel will cook with High Rock areas

they won't be "just medieval"

there will be more to them

[tough juniper]

yeah it will be interesting to see how they take it

[inner hare]

with TES4, Todd wanted to turn Cyrodiil into next High Rock

and look what happened 🙁

[iron lance]

It should

Politics and medieval stuff are what High Rock is about

Taking it away is like what Bethesda did to Cyrodil

Daggerfall was a political chess game

[inner hare]

lol, politics will stay

you haven't played PT, right?

[iron lance]

They better

[inner hare]

there is a lot of politics

[tough juniper]

lmao yeah

[iron lance]

Best part of Daggerfall

Fucking love TES politics

I know it's controversial, but the Civil War was my favorite part of Skyrim

[inner hare]

even SHOTN - the earliest release besides Morrowind - has massive amount of politics. This is because PT is made as if it was made in TES3 times and TES3 is heavily political.

so you have social and racial tensions everywhere

and the Reachmen with proper culture

instead of whatever they were in TES5

[tough juniper]

is that controversial? i thought it was obviously the best part even if it was gutted

[inner hare]

yeah, especially when your competition in Alduin snoozefest, lol

who cares about Alduin?

like really

[iron lance]

Forsworn aren't the reachmen though, they are a terrorist offshoot tied to the more daedric worshiping side of their culture

[inner hare]

even Skyrim fans don't care about Alduin

[tough juniper]

should have swapped the focus

[inner hare]

but Todd wanted dragons and dragons

[iron lance]

Alduin could be more interesting, but I don't mind him just being evil dragon

[inner hare]

so they made them like cliff racers

[inner hare]

literally the most boring option

[iron lance]

I like the Civil War more, but I also don't mind Alduin as he is, especially because we get a reason for why he is kinda bland

He isn't the devourer, he is the pre-devourer avoiding devouring

[iron lance]

Perhaps

[tough juniper]

tes dragons were always more interesting

[iron lance]

But it could be worse :v

[inner hare]

btw if you play SHOTN, visit the cities there, talk to the people and you will see what I mean

you have the Reachmen there, Redguard-Nord tensions, political fallout due to a previous war, fights for trade influence and even a city divided between Redguard and Nords

[iron lance]

I know Reachfolk have more interesting stuff to them

I am just saying the Forsworn aren't exactly that bad if you see them less like THE reachmen and more of an outlier of the culture, because that's what they are

If they were reachmen, they would be reachmen, not forsworn

[inner hare]

they wanted generic bandits

and this is what they made them

no depth

[iron lance]

Generic bandits don't have hearts showing in their chest and goat head helmets

[iron lance]

You never did the Cidhna Mine questline?

I agree they aren't as interesting, but the Forsworn do have they depth

[inner hare]

ah, I see. You are talking it literal . I see, I see. But I said "bandits", not "Bandits". As a Skyrim player, you should know that I meant the bandits in general terms, not Bandits as enemy group 🤡

[iron lance]

I think you are being too biased against Skyrim here

And I get it

It could be better

But still, the Fosworn are interesting, a sub-faction of the indigenous people of the place going full postal after years of oppression

Especially since all they want is to be their own nation, as we see when they invaded Markath

They just wanted freedom and to be recognized as their own selves, not part of Skyrim or High Rock

Just the Reach

[inner hare]

"I think you are being too biased against Skyrim here " - hey, I like the soundtrack

see? I said sth positive about Skyrim.

not 100% hater

and TES5 is better than TES4

another W

[iron lance]

Sure, man, whatever..

New bad old good

No nuances

[inner hare]

not quite

TES5 is newer than TES4

TES4 is worse than TES5

[iron lance]

But still, forsworn aren't that bad, they aren't reachmen per say, they are forsworn

They want the Reach to be free and shit

Terrorists, but more than just bandits

I just want you to see this point

[tough juniper]

Cybvep listening to Skyrim criticism

[iron lance]

I get it that Skyrim isn't as good as Morrowind in writing, but the biases some of you guys have towards it make you sleep on the interesting stuff it has to offer

Especially the forsworn, they really are an interesting faction

[tough juniper]

i like the hagraven connections

[rustic latch]

Are they though?

They may have been if there was one compentent writer around

[iron lance]

It's more of a Namira stuff that connects the two

[iron lance]

Yes

I went in a whole tangent about it

[tough juniper]

idk i haven't played it in a long time

[inner hare]

I don't hate Skyrim in its entirety or sth. It's a decent action adventure game with beautiful landscapes and nice soundtrack IMO. Fails as TES compared to what it could have been, but still does a better job than Oblivion overall. Civil War is undercooked, but at least there is some politics at all and it's better than those godawful MQ with Alduin. In Oblivion there was basically no politics (in an Imperial capital province) and MQ was about closing the Oblivion Gates which was a far worse grind than dragon fights are in TES5.

[iron lance]

True

But I am kinda talking about the goat helmet guys

Which are the most redeemable part for me of the game lore

The rest is undercooked, I agree

But the Forsworn are well made in comparison, and people take the "oh Skyrim isn't well written" train and run over them, even though they are the focus of one of the best quests of the game

I am not Todd's greatest soldier

I understand not liking Skyrim as a whole

[inner hare]

TES5 does far less dmg to Skyrim than TES4 does to Cyrodiil. You can like Skyrim the way it's depicted in TES5, even if it lacks depth. At least it resembles Skyrim from the old lore (again, despite some travesties like whatever they did to Nordic pantheon). As for Cyrodiil, it's so different from what it should be that it's hard to get into it unless you pretend it's some High Rock offshot.

[iron lance]

But the forsworn? They are legs above the rest of Skyrim when it's about writing

[inner hare]

tl;dr Oblivion hate will always be much greater than Skyrim hate as Skyrim has more redeeming qualities

[iron lance]

It's because Skyrim is just a pretty simple place to adapt

Also, the Nord Pantheon is still there

They worship the same and do all the Nord stuff about Sovngarde, they just use the Empire names for branding and shit

But if you mean the old old nord Pantheon

They are the ghouls and shit we see in Nord ruins

Those damn zombies

Ghastling around

Shouting on my ears

[inner hare]

well, draugrs are sort of similar to what they were in Bloodmoon, so it's clear where they got the idea

[iron lance]

Also, some people still talk about the gods with the nord names in some voicelines, it's kinda clear the worship is the same, the names are just switched for some dumb reason (Again, branding..?)

[iron lance]

I meant the ruins really

The ruins are full of classic first and second era Nord stuff

[inner hare]

I think that they did it because they thought it was too confusing

[iron lance]

And now people think they erased the Nord religion

I don't like the name change either xd

[inner hare]

you pay the price for simplification

they gained nothing tbh

as for Skyrim being an easier place to adapt, let me say this... I'm glad it's not just snow.

[iron lance]

They did gain a lot of money, but it wasn't because of the name change

Putting "Worship Kyne" instead of "Worship Kynareth" in the altars wouldn't cost them a lot of money

It's really weird what they did there

Even more because a thousand voice lines recognize the Nord religion

No one says "By Lorkhan's beard" or whatever

[iron lance]

It kindaaa issss

They butchered Morthal

And Dawnstar

And Winterhold

Falkreath is fine-ish

But what they did well adapting the regions

They fumbled adapting the cities

[inner hare]

oh, yeah, they are garbage

[iron lance]

And I will never forgive them for it

[inner hare]

they don't feel like cities

Falkreath is the funniest one

[iron lance]

Especially Winterhold

[inner hare]

looks like a village

[iron lance]

It fits a bit with the lore

It always gave me "big village" aura

But the rest?

Outrageous

[inner hare]

anyway, we have Skyrim at home

[iron lance]

I am a Reach dickrider as you may have notice

But that Markharth is just sad

[toxic dagger]

That's very beautiful, How many seconds per frame ?

[inner hare]

don't ask hard questions

[iron lance]

The only reason why I don't play SHOTN and PC is because I like focusing on the main game region when playing Elder Scrolls games

I also won't be playing the Beyond Skyrim series of mods for the same reason

I came for Skyrim

I will stay in Skyrim

I came for Morrowind

I will stay in Morrowind

Simple as

[toxic dagger]

It's very nice if your character comes from outside of Morrowind, I played an Imperial Paladin of the Divines and spent some time in Anvil first before comming back to Morrowind

[iron lance]

If someone demakes Skyrim or Oblivion in Morrowind

I will play

Because I will make the game Skyrim and Oblivion

And I will stay in Skyrim and Cyrodil there too

Because I am a simple man

[toxic dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/computer-memes-meme-funny-unexpected-gif-25843372

[iron lance]

I am probably missing stuff out

But still

Morrowind Morrowind

Skyrim Skyrim

Cyrodil Cyrodil

[toxic dagger]

uh, nope, Oblivion > Oblivion

[iron lance]

I don't like to enter the gates : ( they are scary

[toxic dagger]

stay true to your words

[inner hare]

On a more serious note, some wilderness areas have atrocious FPS. Cites are much better than I expected, although some people really complain about low FPS in Dragonstar. I know that the devs will be improving the performance in the next SHOTN release. Some areas will be derocked, some assets optimised etc.

[iron lance]

Mesh optimization is key

Modders are too trigger happy on the "1 quadrillion polies will make everything better" bottom

They won't even need to dream about decluttering the wilderness if they optimize the meshes

[inner hare]

Skyrim-in-Morrowind has nice vibes, though

[iron lance]

Skyrim is a place of vibes tbf

It's the lowest fantasy area in Tamriel

[inner hare]

not really

[iron lance]

What?

Even High Rock has the whole Arthurian shit

You got faries and etc

Skyrim is a lot more grounded

[inner hare]

and you have a lot of fantasy stuff in Skyrim

[iron lance]

Sure, you have giants and some critters here and there

[candid wren]

Literally giants

[inner hare]

even the old lore was always heavy on the Voice

[iron lance]

But in comparison to the rest of Tamriel, this is grounded

[iron lance]

YEAH WELL

VERY TALL PEOPLE ARE A LOT MORE GROUNDED THAN FARIES AND TROLLS

I meet tall people

Have you ever meet a fairy?

[inner hare]

and dragons, zombie-likes and such

witches

[iron lance]

SEMANTICS

[inner hare]

were there witches in Skyrim? Don't remember

[iron lance]

I mean

If Skyrim isn't the most grounded province, what is?

[candid wren]

Yea I think

Falmor

Wrong name

[iron lance]

Yeah

Witches were the ones that turned the Companions into furries

Also Hagravens

Which are witches who are bitches

[inner hare]

ah, werewolves!

[candid wren]

Hargreaves

[inner hare]

vampires