#N'Garde. Vanilla-Friendly Parry and Active Block.

1 messages · Page 10 of 1

rustic latch
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Merci!

hearty scroll
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yw!

inner hare
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@rustic latch just so you know, I've just seen an NPC with Healer class blocking with HTH and casting Absorb Fatigue on me at the same time. He had blocking animation and the spell effect VFX appears in his hands 😅

rustic latch
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oh

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actually. I may know what that is

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he may have gotten stuck in blocking animation

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that should be better in the next update too

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so he wasn't actually blocking, but animation was stuck

inner hare
rustic latch
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yeah, happens rarely on 1.0.8, but it bloody made it into Salve's video doitswit

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so I was looking at it - should be better

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It's also one of those fun ones that I couldn't replicate locally... angyfargoth

maiden tangle
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Detaillierte Einstellungen für die Parier-Effektivität der verschiedenen Waffenarten befinden sich in script/ngarde/helpers/weapon_parry_table.lua

🫡

rustic latch
maiden tangle
zenith karma
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What actually counts as a "block" as far as skill increase goes? I hold down the block button and it mitigates damage, but only occasionally does the hit seem to increase the Block skill at all.

rustic latch
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even if you failed to prevent any damage, and brought up your guard very early - you should still gain some skill progress for each hit

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That said, I probably should bump up the minimum that I pass to the skillUse

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And extend the window after perfect parry window expires

rustic latch
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1.0.9

  • Weapons types now have varying effectiveness at guarding against other weapon types. With the exception of h2h and shields that already are governed by quite complex formulae. To support this - base values exposed in settings were slightly pushed towards the middle. E.g. the default for shortblade is now 0.9 not 0.7 but it suffers a significant malus at protecting against larger, heavier weapons. These values are not exposed in settings as otherwise we'd have 90 more of those. However if you feel some weapons types have been unjustly nerfed - you can edit scripts/helpers/weapon_parry_table.lua to your liking.
  • Details of the above change are on the wiki: https://gitlab.com/Arrean/openmwluaparry/-/wikis/Formulas/Item-Parry-and-Block-Stats
  • increased the minimum skill gain for weak blocks/parries
  • fewer cases of stuck animations, hopefully
  • lower collision detection range for actors backing off in combat to avoid jittering and allow better maneuvering in tight spaces
  • can now block/parry and attack while overencumbered. Still can't when knocked down/out or paralyzed
  • slightly wider reaction time range for low to high stats NPCs, with lower minimum (0.15 ->0.1 seconds)
  • slightly wider parry hold duration range for low to high stats NPCs, with higher minimum (0.6->0.7s)
  • Preventing NPC handling while they are fleeing
  • renamed "all attacks hit" setting to "glancing blows" to better communicate what it does (cause some of ya'll didn't read the description)
  • Better setting description for "Iron Palm" and "Perfect Parry" threshold to more clearly communicate what the setting means
  • Ukrainian localization by Arrean
  • French localization by Billie
  • German localization by Semaro
  • code cleanup and optimizations
  • movement handlers cleanup
  • better debug messaging
GitLab
Item Parry and Block Stats · Wiki · Arrean / NGarde OpenMW Active...

GitLab.com

zenith karma
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Great, thanks for that.

rustic latch
# zenith karma Great, thanks for that.

yeah, it was way too low.

Currently it should still push you to try and time your blocks for best defence and best skill gain, but you will still get something even if you're completely out of timing

misty phoenix
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"renamed "all attacks hit" setting to "glancing blows" to better communicate what it does (cause some of ya'll didn't read the description)"
36vehks

zenith karma
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In that case I was using it the way you would in TES4 and TES5, turtling a weak enemy and letting it wail on me for a few minutes.

rustic latch
rustic latch
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need to time the defence with the enemy strike

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if you have godlike skills you can turtle

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but why would you

misty phoenix
rustic latch
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🤷‍♂️

zenith karma
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Thanks!

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I'm using Skill Evolution myself as well, trying to get a sense of how many MW mechanics are now actually quite nice.

rustic latch
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Oh

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then you can see your last skill gain in the skill tooltip

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If you have Stats Window Extender that, but iirc it's a hard requirement

zenith karma
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I would if I had Stats Window Extender replacing my regular stats window; alas I am using Gamepad interface and don't presently have it bound to a hotkey. Why was that again?

rustic latch
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ah

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well, that makes sense

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gamepad menus currently can't be replaced

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Iirc it will work fine if you bind it

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but it can't replace the native one

zenith karma
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Oh yeah... I left the hotkey off it's because for some reason typing things in the Console window and pressing that particular key will open the stats menu

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It was very annoying, I wonder if it's just a bug or a flaw in the Lua API

rustic latch
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It may be

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hold on

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Hmmm. It looks like some hotkeys even on keyboard are not context aware

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e.g. my ncg window pops up while I type l in the console

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May need to dig further at some point

zenith karma
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Yeah I wondered if it was a wider issue, several other mods seem to have similar things going on WRT context awareness

rustic latch
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I'm guessing right now that one mod is using "inputBinding" and the other "onKeyPress"

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need to check which is which

zenith karma
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Quickloot for instance is not as perfect on the gamepad as you'd think, thanks to any other mapped D-pad functions overruling Quickloot's own item picking interface

rustic latch
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Hmm

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interesting - it looks like specifically "inputBinding" is not context aware.

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which is native "correct" way to currently do it

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bleugh

zenith karma
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I've been unsure till now if it's a systemic problem or of there's a better function script authors should be informed about

rustic latch
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In my current load order, at least - the mods that use inputBinding to bring up a UI - still fire while e.g. console is open and the game is paused.

Mods that use their own renderers that wrap onKeyPress or do something else - do not

pastel vine
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Thank you for the update. I will test shortly. This includes the flee fix to my friend?

rustic latch
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Yup

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Preventing NPC handling while they are fleeing

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Let me know - should be largely bug free, but there's been a lot of time between coding sessions

pastel vine
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Oh awesome thank you

inner hare
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looks like a nice update 😄

somber quail
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Hell yeah. Then building it up to the point where you can cast it for minutes at a time and jumping to every destination.

somber quail
somber quail
rustic latch
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Yah, likely

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Let me know if it still happens

pastel vine
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Arrean, my friend, glancing Blows doesn't affect ranged weapons correct?

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I saw a mention on the Throwing Skill page about it so was curious. I'll have to test when I can haha

rustic latch
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Ugh

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It should? I have no memory of coding in an exception

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give me a sec

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No, it does affect it. What does it say on the throwing mod page?

pastel vine
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Thank you for checking

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I think they misunderstood that glancing Blows affects ranged weapons

rustic latch
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Ah

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yeah, it may not work with "thrown" weapons

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but it should work with bows and crossbows

pastel vine
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Thank you for checking this my friend

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I really appreciate you clearing this up haha

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I can't wait to go through the update tonight.

rustic latch
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Ok, yeah. I can add handling on my end to make it work

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Will post a small update soon-ish to address it

inner hare
rustic latch
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I just posted the rename today

torn crown
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Tbqh this mod, as well as the marksman overhaul make combat for more "mundane" characters so much more interesting. I paired those two with "Natural Character Growth" and "Sun's Dusk" and its absolutely perfect. IMO due to the weapon variety, active parry system and the slower leveling it makes the game much more enjoyable than other TES titles at this point, even with some of their combat overhauls. These mods are now a staple in my list no matter what.

rustic latch
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Am using bullseye for my marksman stuff too

torn crown
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I dont think I can go back to vanilla or any other TES title. I am like 35 days into a play through, just recently hit level 12 despite all the heavy combat I have been doing and its still fairly challenging. Every other title stops being hard at like, level 3 imo. Its such a nice change of pace.

hearty scroll
# rustic latch I just posted the rename today

tbh I wouldn't be surprised if it stuck. Because, glancing or not, a hit's a hit, when you hate the vanilla "I saw it hit but nothing happened" behaviour, like 90% of people who dislike vanilla combat, this is what the "always hit" category is for. I'm guessing, but it would make sense.

rustic latch
kindred imp
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Individual mechanics are there, but the execution...

rustic latch
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Combat in Tes4/Tes5 never clicked for me tbh, weapons feel like wet noodles, block feels meaningless etc

kindred imp
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For me it's more about shitty movement

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Skyrim not only stops you from sprinting once you hit A or D, but also lowers your sensitivity when you sprint

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I get the potential idea behind it
But omfg it's annoying and actively not fun

hearty scroll
# torn crown Tbqh this mod, as well as the marksman overhaul make combat for more "mundane" c...

Haven't tested marksman mod nor Sun's Dusk ('cause I haven't really played a dedicated marksman character, and I'm not into "real needs" survival mods), but both N'Garde and NCD are permanent fixtures now for me too.
(technically, NCD has been a must since before it was created. I used GCD with MWSE, and wouldn't have made the switch to OpenMW without some equivalent. Even my Skyrim is modded similarly)

kindred imp
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Even jumps can't be utilized for nothing useful but hill clibming due to not giving you any control in the air
Realistic? Yes. Fun? Hell no

torn crown
hearty scroll
kindred imp
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Morrowind made me realize how much I love free movement

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And also Dead Cells, for that matter

rustic latch
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SaintJ wanted it

hearty scroll
kindred imp
torn crown
# hearty scroll Haven't tested marksman mod nor Sun's Dusk ('cause I haven't really played a ded...

IMO I would suggest trying both out. Playing as an archer/melee character who is out on the road with real needs and a genuine reason to stop and explore the shops, taverns and even set up a small camp makes the game much more enjoyable and immersive. It also makes it so you have a good reason to stick around to a certain town/hub and ration your supplies, and gives healing potions a reason to exist outside of combat.
Logistics management for food/water, carrying bedrolls for sleeping outdoors and having to adjust your plans because you spent too much time resting and are beginning to lose stats due to hunger/thirst is a fun time.

rustic latch
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^All of that only matters if you didn't level mysticism, but that's the beauty of playing the game

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Or if you don't use multimark

hearty scroll
rustic latch
kindred imp
rustic latch
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well, 1.0.9 is a touch less restrictive in that regard, so should be better

kindred imp
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But from the limited time I've played, though, I didn't find anything annoying

torn crown
rustic latch
hearty scroll
torn crown
kindred imp
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(SD also has a crap ton of settings you can adjust for that matter)

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its cooking saved my ass with water breathing soups like 3 times already 36vehks

cinder gulch
rustic latch
hearty scroll
cinder gulch
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Farming starfish from purifying saltwater todd

kindred imp
rustic latch
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I think by then I had the diver helmet

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but yeah, without it - definitely need some soup

tough juniper
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That soup saved my ass

torn crown
inner hare
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BTW I'm not sure whether mod settings defaults RE: weapon parry effectiveness will automatically change to the new presets. I wanted to test that, but I clicked Reset out of habit 36vehks

rustic latch
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They should

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I've added a migration script

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check your log for Old settings detected. Starting migration

rustic latch
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however

kindred imp
rustic latch
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that being still the case from vanilla engine, I got thrown weapons working with glancing blows

rustic latch
kindred imp
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there was a mod that flipped their rotation
but it's softly incompatibly with Bullseye Arrow Stick todd

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things start sticking backwards

rustic latch
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Lmao, yeah. I've noticed that arrow stick places them correctly

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but they fly backwards

pastel vine
rustic latch
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Hold on a second - not up yet, doublechecking some other stuff :D

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Ok.

1.0.10

  • NPCs now correctly react to threats made with thrown weapons.
  • Thrown weapons are now handled correctly for "glancing blows"
  • Enchanted thrown weapons are now handled correctly for "enchant parry".
pastel vine
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That's fantastic. Ty

inner hare
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1.1.11 would be funnier

rustic latch
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We may see 1.1.11 at some point

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But again - semantic versioning - this one was way to small to bump minor version number

rustic latch
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I've got more version numbers for ya'll:

1.0.11

  • Bugfix for lockpick handling while checking item condition
rustic latch
kindred imp
pastel vine
maiden tangle
rustic latch
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lmao

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I mean

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get a load of that guy

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but also - more power to 'em

tough juniper
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that guy is king nerd

rustic latch
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That man's wanna click - the man's can click

torn crown
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TBQH you can still click things to death while holding S. I just killed the fucker for Chrysamere at level 1 for my pally character while not parrying at all.

inner hare
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parry is an extension of the game's mechanic. Not a replacement for anything.

rustic latch
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As it was intended

rustic latch
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Bleugh. The 3rd person animation for shield strike is atrocious. 1st p is halfway there. Need to get back to with a fresh head

zenith karma
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Maybe look at the TES5 shield bash for reference?

rustic latch
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Maybe, not 100% sure

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the "how it should look" though is not 100% the problem, it's more of a "can I execute?"

karmic citrus
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We're getting close

fickle veldt
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It would great to be able to have two binds for this. I switch between PC and Controller and I have to jump in an rebind it every time.

zenith karma
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Yeah I have it bound to left bumper for now. It's surprising the API doesn't allow for two separate bindings for the different input methods.

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Or maybe it does, but doesn't make the function accessible enough to authors.

rustic latch
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That's yeah, the opposite of what we want, cause we are hardcoding the inputs. I'll take a look if what I can do

real onyx
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would it be possible to make it so enchant on a shield would trigger on perfect block?

rustic latch
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Trigger how?

real onyx
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same as on-hit for weapons

rustic latch
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So you want to enchant your shield with some sort of harmful on use effect, and trigger it on enemy on perfect block?

real onyx
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yes

rustic latch
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Well, possible. I don't know if I like the idea, nor if it fits thematically or logically

real onyx
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or maybe even not harmful - maybe buff myself

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also would be cool if I could block in spell casting stance - ideally with shield, but I'd settle for unarmed-only blocks

tough juniper
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That would be cool, might need some new spells though

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That would be a good fit for Sword Singing

rustic latch
tough juniper
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We were talking about ward spells too datchim

real onyx
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yeah, I already have it - and it is neat, but since I have Alacrity spell that boosts cast speed from other mod, there's a good reason to switch to proper stance anyway

rustic latch
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Fair

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I'll take a note of unarmed blocking in spellcasting stance. No promises though - I try to avoid touching it, since especially NPC caster control is very awkward

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Btw, looking at my notes. Jojy I need to know if new version helped with the jitter on your end

tough juniper
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In theory could a new spell be scripted to use the parry mechanic? So that the spells effect is a parry 🤔 so the moment damage would normally be applied is timed to perfect parry

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There's always bound shield ig

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Just brainstorming...😅

rustic latch
tough juniper
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Interesting 🧐

rustic latch
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In practice - will require separate lua handling, and new VFX for the "parry" spell

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there're bound weapons too

tough juniper
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Yeah I'm thinking of a new mod maybe using skrows framework to make ward spells. Idfk when I'll get the time but if the theory is sound then it has legs

rustic latch
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It'll either need to be part of ngarde, or I'll need to add more interop hooks

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otherwise it'll duplicate same code - and there's no reason to do that

tough juniper
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Ok well I'm not trying to make more work for you lol but if I make any progress I'll let you know 🤷 it would be cool if such a thing was compatible with ngarde

rustic latch
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I mean, I don't know if we need skrows framework for it - maybe for channelling part, but that alone is relatively straightforward.

That is if you want it to be a channelled spell, so that while you keep casting it - the ward holds

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Otherwise - we can create a spell effect.

And tie lua to it. The lua will need to give the actor a special "active parry config" with durability, override results of some formulas with magic skills and set the "isParryng" flag properly

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then when the spell is active - it would be the same as if you got hit while holding the parry button

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Magnitude can be the defence factor

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Can we do "resist normal weapons" spells already? Cause aside from potential "channelling" and the perfect parry - that would do the same thing btw

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well, I guess - this would affect magic weapons too

cinder gulch
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Those are already in the base game though ?

rustic latch
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yeah they are, that's what I'm saying

cinder gulch
# 
  {
    "type": "MagicEffect",
    "flags": "",
    "effect_id": "ResistNormalWeapons",
    "icon": "s\\Tx_S_Rst_NmlWpn.tga",
    "texture": "vfx_bluecloud.tga",
    "bolt_sound": "",
    "cast_sound": "",
    "hit_sound": "",
    "area_sound": "",
    "cast_visual": "VFX_RestorationCast",
    "bolt_visual": "VFX_RestoreBolt",
    "hit_visual": "VFX_RestorationHit",
    "area_visual": "VFX_RestorationArea",
    "description": "This effect increases the target's resistance to damage caused by normal (i.e., not enchanted or silvered) weapons. The magnitude is percentage reduction in damage caused by normal weapons.",
    "data": {
      "school": "Restoration",
      "base_cost": 5.0,
      "flags": "ALLOW_SPELLMAKING | ALLOW_ENCHANTING",
      "color": [
        128,
        128,
        192
      ],
      "speed": 1.0,
      "size": 1.0,
      "size_cap": 50.0
    }
  },```
rustic latch
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Yeah, I was jsut considering if it would be completely pointless as a spell

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It won't cause it will cover magic weapons too

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But between bound weapons/shields, and the resist normal weapons - mages get a lot of the tools that martials do with the parry already

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I don't currently have events to control parry behaviour from the outside, nor an interface on the ParryController, so will need that, and ability to override formula responses with magic stuff

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But possible, I'm not particularly motivated to do it right this second, but will add to notes

tough juniper
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Yeah it just seemed like it could be neat but it's not a priority feature or anything. There are probably better things to spend valuable resources on haha

rustic latch
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Maybe a "fortify parry" spell

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to match "fortify attack"

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cause on attack we can do "fortify attack", "fortify skill" and "fortify stat"

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skill and stat apply to parry too

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but, there's no direct equivalent to fortify attack for defence

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but then again - is there a need for it

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meh

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fortify long blade + bound longsword, or foritfy block + bound shield will achieve the same effect

tough juniper
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Yeah the need isn't there for sure. I didn't really think much of ward spells in Skyrim tbh, way too passive. It would be better if it was a costly one-shot spell that was hard to time, purely for the Chad wizard who wants to flex. But balance wise it's probably not something the game really needs

rustic latch
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speaking of "hard to time"

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vanilla spellcasting animation is about 1 second

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you're not timing that to a strike

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even with windups increased by ngarde

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I think we probably should shelve further mixing of weapon and magic stances till some more dehardcoding happens

tough juniper
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Fair enough 🤷

tough juniper
rustic latch
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Imo - it won't even be. My parry animations are around 250ms - add median reaction time of around 200ms on top of that - and the attack windup that is 450ms maximum - and you already need to be johnny on the spot with it

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to "time" it to a spell cast - would be pure luck , or prescience

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which, luck isn't a flex

hearty scroll
# rustic latch And a tiny sneak peek for ya'll

Cheers!
I wonder how a shield bash would fit in the combat, what its role will be. offensive source of stagger while in defensive stance (guarding)? As opposed to the current defensive source of stagger while in offensive stance (perfect parry) ?

rustic latch
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So minimal fatigue damage too

hearty scroll
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Do ennemies even guard when PC is in guard position?

rustic latch
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edge of the shield to the face seems thematic for that

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Not specifically, but you can switch into guard position and do a face hit

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Not massively useful - cause NPCs don't hold guard for very long against melee attacks

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but still something to do

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and a way to break up enemy attack flow from guard position

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Only shields though, at least for now

worthy hawk
rustic latch
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Let me know

rustic latch
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Bleugh

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1.0.12

  • Creature combat hotfix.
kindred imp
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more bugfixes in the name of the gods of bugfixes!!!!

rustic latch
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Shoulda left thrown weapons alone

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lmao

rustic latch
hearty scroll
# rustic latch

the timing of the sound makes it look like it's the right hand hitting the ennemy instead of the shield. The bash occurs just a fraction of a second later, it seems

rustic latch
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I may need to figure that out

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currently the sound is coming from the fact that shield strike is an "attack"

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may change that

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this still needs a lot of work though

kindred imp
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Yeah, the right hand motion is weird

hearty scroll
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I don't mind the right hand movement, it makes sense to gain momentum so that the bash will have more strengh, it's just the sound timing that makes it wierd

kindred imp
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Plus I can't say that bashing enemy with shield's side instead of front looks all too convincing. Maybe I'm too used to how Skyrim does it, idk

hearty scroll
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smaller edge = more pain huhu ^^'

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(also more range)

kindred imp
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True, but you're trying not to hurt the armor, but to stun a person inside it 🤷

hearty scroll
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It's true that I wasn't thinking in terms of armour taking the hit but the person wearing it

rustic latch
kindred imp
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Ok valid

rustic latch
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which is also why actual historical warhammers are "tiny head"

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not the atrocities we see in MW

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concentrate the force - more better

rustic latch
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlCQ2pBob5Q There are thousands of these online, but 8 seconds in - guy in white brig does a nice chin check with his shield

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tough juniper
#

oof

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lmao the finish 36vehks i think you can call it ref..

rustic latch
#

Yeah, the specific tourney seems a bit ass in that sense

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they are going for a spectacle

tough juniper
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yeah

rustic latch
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but, the chin check at 00:08 - is very nice

tough juniper
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👌

rustic latch
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ooh and another at 00:16

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that would send the bells ringing I'll tell you that much

tough juniper
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good lord 36vehks

rustic latch
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Hence why edge strikes - a push with a shield face is a possible manoeuvre, but won't get much force behind it - only leverage you got in that situation is from your elbow .

An actual punch using shield edge on the other hand is bound to have the desired effect

tough juniper
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there's a fantasy trope of the one man shield wall, using your tower shield like a snow plow. but this just looks legitimately painfull lol

rustic latch
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That's yeah - that's what it looks like in Skyrim iirc, and most other games and movies

worthy hawk
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@rustic latch update has made no difference, NPCs still violently jitter in the same way

rustic latch
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goddammit

worthy hawk
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I might try doing a binary search of disabling half my mods at a time

hearty scroll
worthy hawk
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see if i can track down an incompatibility

waxen cliffBOT
#
jojy
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  • third-person-alt-attacks.omwscripts
  • TabletopAlchemy.omwscripts
Quoted by @​.arrean from #N'Garde. Vanilla-Friendly Parry and Active Block. 1.0 ·
rustic latch
#

your load order is up to date here?

worthy hawk
#

Yup, no changes have been made since then, besides updating N'Garde. And the only animation mods I have installed are those recommended on the N'Garde mod page, ReAnimation and the third person one

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Which I grabbed the latest versions of at time of downloading ngarde

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And smooth sneak I guess, but I don't think that'd affect this, that's a first person player only thing

fickle veldt
rustic latch
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I mean, it will for work you it's just something I can't ship

rustic latch
#

backup your openmw.cfg somewhere first though

worthy hawk
rustic latch
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yeah, something like that

tough juniper
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do you want to try some alternate shield anims?

rustic latch
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yes, please.

tough juniper
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some i was working on a while back but i cleaned up after seeing that video, they needed some impact.

📎 parry.001.zip
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kfs are parry01 is just a block, parry02 and parry03 are bashes

rustic latch
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Will have to rename those, but that thankfully is easy in nifScope

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thank you

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I'll check them out in a bit

tough juniper
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aye no worries 🫡

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yeah i forgot what names you used but figured thats the easiest part to change

worthy hawk
rustic latch
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that's fucking weird

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unrelated:

Warning: addAnimSource: can't find bone 'bip01 r finger32' in meshes/xbase_anim.nif (referenced by animations/xbase_anim/xshieldstrike.kf)
Warning: addAnimSource: can't find bone 'bip01 r finger4' in meshes/xbase_anim.nif (referenced by animations/xbase_anim/xshieldstrike.kf)
Warning: addAnimSource: can't find bone 'bip01 r finger41' in meshes/xbase_anim.nif (referenced by animations/xbase_anim/xshieldstrike.kf)
Warning: addAnimSource: can't find bone 'bip01 r finger42' in meshes/xbase_anim.nif (referenced by animations/xbase_anim/xshieldstrike.kf)
Warning: addAnimSource: can't find bone 'bip01 r toe0' in meshes/xbase_anim.nif (referenced by animations/xbase_anim/xshieldstrike.kf)

mofugga.png
rustic latch
worthy hawk
inner hare
#

wow, never saw such BS 😮

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even during pre-release versions

rustic latch
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pre-release version didn't really have movement control

tough juniper
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toe?!

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ffs

kindred imp
worthy hawk
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And just to confirm once again, it's not a high FPS issue either. Capping at 60 and turning off vsync doesn't remove the jitter, it just slows it down.

rustic latch
inner hare
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Just checked in-game

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Nothing

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Same enemy

rustic latch
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yup

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@worthy hawk , can I get your settings,cfg as well please?

rustic latch
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Now, the problem is - I don't think kf file can be edited to remove them in nifskope( or I don't know how)

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But first, to confirm, which blender version and rig are you running for problematic animations that you had?

tough juniper
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im on 5.1 with this rig #1471171570750722118 message
i've had the issue from a few different rigs

rustic latch
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yup

worthy hawk
rustic latch
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or vice versa

tough juniper
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so that rig is 1st person only?

rustic latch
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yah

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I've only got 1 animation that is affected, so I'll redo it, but yeah

tough juniper
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huh, fair enough. i'm pretty sure the bizzarre exporter is supposed to filter them out but yeah i suspected it was something like that, too many fingers for 3rd person.

rustic latch
worthy hawk
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roger that

rustic latch
worthy hawk
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had smooth movement and npcs avoid collisions on originally, not normalize race speed. But I'll go ahead and do them one by one now

rustic latch
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Just comparing your config to mine

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And that is really the only section that theoretically can have an effect

# 
NPCs avoid collisions = true
normalise race speed = true
prevent merchant equipping = true
rebalance soul gem values = true
shield sheathing = true
smooth animation transitions = true
smooth movement = true
strength influences hand to hand = 1
swim upward correction = true
trainers training skills based on base skill = true
turn to movement direction = true
uncapped damage fatigue = true
use additional anim sources = true
weapon sheathing = true
show effect duration = true
show enchant chance = true
show melee info = true
show owned = 3
show projectile damage = true
use magic item animations = true
actor collision shape type = 2
best attack = false
# invalid setting: player movement ignores animation = false
player movement ignores animation = false```
the entirety of mine, but I think most of these should not have an effect
worthy hawk
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OH!

rustic latch
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?

worthy hawk
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Smooth Movement Transitions might've completely fixed it

rustic latch
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Alright

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Imma add that to the readme

worthy hawk
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let me load up my original setup with all my other mods to confirm

rustic latch
#

please do

worthy hawk
# rustic latch please do

yeah, seems like smooth animations + smooth animation transitions is what completely fixes it. Having just one or the other produces different, but both janky, results

rustic latch
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glad we've figured it out

worthy hawk
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Likewise haha. Thank you, for this, and for the mod as a whole 🙂

rustic latch
# tough juniper some i was working on a while back but i cleaned up after seeing that video, the...

Dubious, I come bearing feedback.

a) logspam ofc, but at least now we know how to deal with that
b) I was looking mostly at third person stuff - and something seems off. :First two pics are shield hold - standing and in motion, hence rough idea of how it looks with animation replacers and without
c) The videos are shield bashes, the first one that you had as parry02 is a bit weak imo - it seems like it's a shield front surface hit. and the one you had as 03 is almost there, but on a lot of shields PC slaps themselves in the face before moving further

screenshot150.png screenshot149.png
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I'm reasonably happy with what I got for first person, so didn't check those out yet

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I dunno, I feel bad saddling you with more animation work, so do know you're under no obligation to redo these, am grateful anyway

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Do you need torso movement on the guard animations?

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yeah, ok. I see there's some, but it doesn't help with the shield position

tough juniper
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Nah good feedback anyway,
A) yeah I need to redo most of my 3rdP anims it looks like, some can be salvaged with nifscope but it is what is
B) I take your only playing the torso up? It looks like a lot of the motion is missing so it's a lot jankier than intended, easy enough to remove those frames and account for it in the upper body
C) accounting for that change would improve the impact and clipping but yeah accounting for the variety of shields is tricky.

I'm happy to help out with it but likewise I'm not trying to impose on your mod, your good at doing the anims how you like them it just seems like you hate it36vehks so I can help out as I hone my skills it's all mellow 👍

inner hare
tough juniper
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Kvetching mananaut at their finest

rustic latch
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B) Yeah, torso and left hand - generally try to limit it. No lower body cause otherwise it will lock movement in third person while animation is playing - which doesn't feel good to play
C) I try to start with biggest stupidest shields like bonemold tower and steel one. What you seem to do is rotate the forearm first and then move the rest of the arm which causes that "flick myself into the face" moment

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I do hate it a bit, every time I open blender I long for the pure light of code. But it's all good 36vehks .

tough juniper
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Did you need to speed it up?

rustic latch
rustic latch
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and I don't have a good idea of what speed those should be yet anyway

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Speaking of music. I think I screwed up my playlists on reinstall. I'm not sure it's supposed to play in Vivec Arena

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🤔

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Actually, I forgot I was already playing the bash at 1.75 speed. Probably need to do 200-250 to match the attack animations or something

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That said - I'm reasonably happy with 1st person for both shield hold and strike

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So if you can come up with a 3rd person ones - that would be greatly appreciated

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I have a placeholder for the strike, which looks good in blender, but something is off in game

tough juniper
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Yeah ok I think I see what I can do

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What rig are you working with out of curiosity

rustic latch
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bleugh. I have no memory of where I got them

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hold up

tough juniper
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Fair

rustic latch
#

both by G7 iirc

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interestingly enough - exporting 3rd person of this 1st person rig doesn't produce warnings if exported in blender 4.4

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but does in 5.1

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I've played a bit with new Max's rig - it's nice, but something went awry and I went back to these

rustic latch
tough juniper
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Hmm

rustic latch
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It has other issues - the crab claw fingers namely, but otherwise 3rd person works as expected

tough juniper
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I kept my ol install so I guess I can switch back and forth yagrwut

rustic latch
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otherwise - the autorigpro from MOAP discord, and latest G7 exporter and bizzare tools

rustic latch
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Do note - you can't open files saved in newer blender in older versions

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mostly

tough juniper
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Yeah that'll be fun, the most important part is no more logspam

rustic latch
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Let me know once you update scrib pet and sidestep. - those are two main offenders in my dev setup :D

tough juniper
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You have a link to G7s exporter?

rustic latch
rustic latch
tough juniper
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Sweet ty

rustic latch
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Well, I needed a pick me up. But also - apparently the mods works on Starwind, which is nice

image.png
worthy hawk
rustic latch
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I've not even played Starwind yet

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Not doing anything till that at least

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:P

worthy hawk
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It's a bit rough around the edges, but, it's a good time

rustic latch
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I'm a bit off starwars stuff since 2017 - quite purposefully didn't do anything related to it. Maybe one day

young aspen
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need lightsaber parries to make the right noise

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bzzt, bzzt

rustic latch
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That part, thankfully is easy

inner hare
inner hare
uncut sun
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almost did all of the armor edits for my mod

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well for the TD addon. there is still TR and PS and Shotn addons, they add pieces too

rustic latch
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Yooo, that's fire

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Iirc, individual mods in PTR should have fewer pieces, but can't say for certain

uncut sun
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tr has a few. shotn and pc hace barely any. a lot of things you might think would be province mod dependant are actually td items

rustic latch
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I was surprised anything is in province mods at all when I discovered it - my naive understanding was that everything is TD, and that's the big idea

uncut sun
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The almas thirr temple questline gives you some unique ordinater armor. That is TR. But some simple imperial shields for random quests are TD. i don't get it

rustic latch
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Yeah, honestly, neither do I

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e.g. that ordinator armor - unless they are 100% sure it will never show up outside morrowind - it should be in TD

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but then

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maybe they are sure

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and specifically put it in TR, so that no one working on other provinces uses it there 🤷‍♂️

uncut sun
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it's the speaker set

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specifically

rustic latch
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ye

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I got it last playthrough

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I mean - sort of makes sense, given how exclusive it is

uncut sun
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also two questions: how powerfull should dwemer armor be? currently i have it at 40 ar. Iron is 20, steel is 25, silver is 30 and gold is 35. Personally i think dwemer is ugly and i don't like using it. Thinking about making it 30. I have reasons for doing this. Second; what sould wormmouth armor be: Light armor (so a type of leather), or medium armor (which it currently is). Personally i would change it to light. Makes more sense, plus there could always be more light armors, as i have made a coule light sets into medium

rustic latch
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Are you going for lore consistency or balance? Cause if lore - dwemer armor should be higher. I don't like the look of it either, nor the dwemer scrap from TD, but it's "good for lore reasons"

uncut sun
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Balance is not a concern. Light armor has basically become useless

rustic latch
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Then I'd keep dwemer at 40, even if I don't like the design of it

uncut sun
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m'Maybe i can make it 35. Have the 40 slot be something else. Did you know dwemer scrap, the medium armor from td, has an ar of 25, while regular dwemer has an ar of 20. it is actually better.

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very silly

rustic latch
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A bit yeah 36vehks

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I guess the point is one is medium and another is heavy

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and one skill and armor category is better filled out than the other

uncut sun
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Just saw this. Very close to the idea I had. I do like what he did with giving evasion to npc as a workaround. Might ask him if i could use something close to that for mine. I have a problem right now with npc's not using armor because the type was changed

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i would have to nuke unarmored to fix that

rustic latch
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You may have accidentalyl a link

uncut sun
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this one

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didn't ctrl c it properly

rustic latch
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Ah, yeah. Saw it, but didn't have a chance to try it yet

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Might be a cool idea to combine with your armor rebalance somehow yeah

uncut sun
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I will have to look at it. Seems to be a nice way of doing it.

rustic latch
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Yeah, may be a good little lua companion for it

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or you can reimplement some of the same ideas on your end

inner hare
rustic latch
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lmao

uncut sun
#

Actually thinking about it, i think you experimental "always hit" is a perfect way of doing it. I never liked that you would "miss" an attack. It feels very gamey. Having them be glancing or deflected blows I think is way better. Here is the pitch: using a version of your system, you would make it actually always hit, but every "miss" would have the armor stats applied, while every "hit" would be "crit", (hitting a gap in the armor is the thought). The equations would have to be different, perhaps just taking the full armor rating of the character and subtracting it from the damage delt. Would have to be tinkered with.

rustic latch
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Speaking of f10. What should shield bash/strike do? Currently it's another source of stagger and a way to break enemy guard if they are turtling, but I'm having trouble coming up with a situation where NPC would even hold guard for long enough for a guardbreak to be possible

rustic latch
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I am kind of leery of touching damage scaling - that has very far reaching consequences

uncut sun
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No you shouldn't do that. This would be a separate thing

rustic latch
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Yeah, was going to say

inner hare
rustic latch
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of half a mind to shelve it

inner hare
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first thing that comes to mind is Fatigue dmg + stagger, but this can escalate soooo quickly

rustic latch
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oh it does

inner hare
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and it would be stupid af if combat suddenly became all about shield bashing

rustic latch
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any meaningful amount of fatigue damage allows to very quickly KO

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Stagger has a cooldown already

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maybe a shield bash cooldown too

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some fatigue damage

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and a shorter stagger? not sure

inner hare
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maybe shield bash should be more like a counter

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sort of super perfect parry for shields?

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and it could fail

rustic latch
#

But what it would do differently from normal perfect parry?

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if it succeeds?

inner hare
#

higher effects

rustic latch
#

bleugh - now I remember why I didn't do it

inner hare
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seems boring tbh

rustic latch
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I guess I'll keep it boring and redundant for now - a small offensive source of stagger

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with very minimal fatigue damage

inner hare
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it's just not easy to translate this to gameplay considering standard N'Garde mechanics

rustic latch
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maybe I'll come up with something else

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It's just that - now I've made 1.5 animations, so discarding them hurts 36vehks

inner hare
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maybe you can use them for sth else

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if you implement counters, master strikes or whatever

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in the future

rustic latch
#

🤔

uncut sun
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Just for honor it again. Have the bash be a counter for blocking. Perhaps you can cancel an attack into a bash. Unsure if that is possible though

rustic latch
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Not currently. Need to be holding the guard up to be able to bash

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and can't hold the guard up while attacking

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but yeah - that was the idea, bash breaks guard

inner hare
#

maybe breaking enemy guard/parry stance + causing stagger if successful?

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ah

rustic latch
#

but NPCs are smort, they don't hold guard forever

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So there's barely ever a situation where an NPC is holding guard and you have a chance to break it

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they'll drop it as soon as attack lands and counterattack

uncut sun
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Npcs could guard more at low hp maybe

hearty scroll
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How about shield bash be a type of attack, then, instead of something you do when guard is up? Might require changing the animation huhu

rustic latch
#

It frankly - same as in M&B smells like a pvp mechanic that is never used in PvE

hearty scroll
#

That would make shield interesting for parry in their own right, not just a quantitatively better parry than weapon parry

inner hare
hearty scroll
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would let you use shield bash to break ennemy parry

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which you can't with weapon

rustic latch
#

can block arrows

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better stats

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etc

hearty scroll
#

I forgot the arrow. Although, having shield exclusive arrow block + ennemy parry break doesn't seem crazy to me

inner hare
#

hmmm, what if successful shield bash could cause that stagger (if allowed due to cooldowns), but also gave you a damage bonus for your next weapon strike?

rustic latch
#

Well, yeah, considering the parry break is basically never useful

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cause NPCs don't turtle

rustic latch
hearty scroll
#

or you could make bash also work with weapons to break parry, but with way lower results than shields - close to zero against ennemy shield, but work against other weapons parry

rustic latch
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to empower sword and board playstyles compared to 2h weapons

inner hare
#

then shield becomes a tool for the offensive move

inner hare
rustic latch
#

yeah that too

inner hare
#

but still, if you are looking for sth useful and interesting

rustic latch
inner hare
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this might be it

rustic latch
#

but nah, feints too smell like pvp stuff

rustic latch
#

"successfull shield bash" - do I have to implement fooken hitchance for it O_o 🤔

inner hare
inner hare
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no other way around it

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it needs a formula

rustic latch
#

yeah, otherwise it will feel like ass

inner hare
#

a way to fail

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maybe a cooldown

hearty scroll
rustic latch
#

can probably use the base game formula but with block instead of weapon skill

rustic latch
inner hare
rustic latch
inner hare
uncut sun
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Would having bashes disable parrying be to disruptive

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For the pc

rustic latch
#

oh

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for the PC doitswit

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yeah it may

inner hare
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xD

rustic latch
#

cause ofc NPCs should be able to do it too

inner hare
#

Funny interop idea: shield bash increases critical hit chance from Lucky Strike mod

rustic latch
#

can just buff luck briefly

hearty scroll
rustic latch
hearty scroll
#

NGarde is much more interesting than Skyrim active parry

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which encourages turtling more than NGarde

rustic latch
#

Ok, I'm making a call - I think it's best to shelve it for now. :/ The guardbreak doesn't give much new tools to the player.
And for combat flow I'm more interested in combos.

And while shield may provide some of that - e.g. via buffing next attack - it's not exactly great.

#

It can be done, but I'm not sure it's doing much useful the way the rest of the mod is designed and made

inner hare
#

shield bash idea right now

hearty scroll
#

Could Bash be optional then? So that players who prefer turtling Skyrim-style and don't want to think too hard or pay too much attention in combat (but still prefer active parry than vanilla RNG auto block) may still find their happy spot?

rustic latch
#

and then - why would you?

uncut sun
#

It is one step a away from a dual wield mod... in a way

rustic latch
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and works with N'Garde

hearty scroll
#

not optimal

rustic latch
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I dunno - I think people who try that are the ones that report gettign wrecked in Addamasartus

hearty scroll
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that may be.

inner hare
#

still don't know how that can happen unless you literally go all noob mode with 0 Fatigue bar

rustic latch
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Supposedly people that report that had HBFS, Fair care etc installed

inner hare
rustic latch
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POTI decided to nerf their stock Fair Care settigns due to ngarde

inner hare
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lol

rustic latch
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maybe they had it unreasonably high

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I dunno

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JBN on stream with N'Garde went into a dungeon with lvl 20 enemies as lvl1 character and it was hard but doable

inner hare
#

btw a few weeks ago I sent mym an idea that NPCs should learn to use Restore Fatigue spells smartly, restore Fatigue of their allies and get Restore Fatigue potions in Fair Care. Imagine that with N'Garde.

rustic latch
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lmao

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Love that

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Character ofc was Cyrus

inner hare
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haha

hearty scroll
#

Still, and keep in mind I have no idea how much work making it optional would require or if feasible, I'm sure some people would prefer the sub-optimal but possible "active but no paying attention" playstyle, and might be turned off if combat becomes too much work. Kinda like playing expedition 33 but you suck at dodging/parrying : you can still play it as a regular turn-based game (yes, you miss out, but it's possible)

rustic latch
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no need to pay attention to strike timing or anything

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still telegraphs, slower NPC reaction

hearty scroll
rustic latch
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so would be quite annoying to implement

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and bug prone

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Cause I will forget something while decoupling it

hearty scroll
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yeah, "making it optional" suggestion was basically to deactivate bashes for everyone, not just NPCs

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but again, just a suggestion, with no idea of the mecanisms under the hood

rustic latch
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Yeah, I guess I'll have this convo to go back to, and it stays in the notes for now. But I really see no good way to implement it that clicks for me

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Nor for feints

inner hare
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what about MSWE support?

rustic latch
#

That's Storm's turf :P

inner hare
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gamepad?

rustic latch
#

works tho

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I didn't put it into words till today - but that's the thing - both shield bash and feints are PvP mechanics that make little sense with NPCs that are implemented the way I did them

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I could fuck around and make them "more player like" - but that's a lot of work for not much of a result

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I think their behavior in combat rn is good

inner hare
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you could also easily make things worse by changing it too much instead of improving it

rustic latch
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yah

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Now... Combos though...

a hitchance bonus, and maybe a small damage bonus for each next attack that is different from the previous two within certain timeframe? 🤔

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Or am I tripping and overengineerring it again?

inner hare
#

I would say that AI stuff is something that can be improved in the future. When the previous poll about fights with multiple opponents was up, I was about to change my vote to "make it harder" just for the lulz and the opportunity to write a post that fights should be made even harder, with true group behaviour. Turn it up to 11. Enemies flanking the player if possible to get outside player block/parry FOV, archers staying in the back or changing position if the player is engaged with their allies, exhausted enemies exchanging places with their allies to regenerate some Fatigue if possible, enemies spreading out to avoid AOE damage sources if the player has any etc. I didn't do it, though, as obviously I would never suggest sth so blatantly hard to implement and feature creepy. Disgusting idea. Good that I never mentioned it.

rustic latch
#

lmao

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That's way harder to do than it sounds and it sounds hard

inner hare
#

yeah, there is a reason so few mods even touch the enemy AI

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I only know one Mercy mod

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and Fair Care which dabbles with AI

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and now N'Garde, I guess

rustic latch
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I don't even touch AI, I override it in specific situations

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although to be fair

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Mercy does the same

inner hare
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the point is that the result is different than Vanilla

rustic latch
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Yeah, fair

inner hare
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btw those N'Garde videos I saw on YT... they look worse than enemy behaviour in my game. I think it's because of Mercy which changes it up.

rustic latch
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Probably

robust sundial
#

For shield bash: how does it work in Skyrim? I would expect it to be similar

rustic latch
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No idea

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:D

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But anything we did come up with - doesn't really fit

inner hare
#

Mod description: inspired by TES5 etc.

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Author when asked about TES5:

image.png
rustic latch
#

TES5 - Enderal

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yes

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why do you ask?

inner hare
#

I think that you had KCD somewhere in description once, but removed it

rustic latch
#

Bashing

Tapping the attack button while blocking will bash your opponent with a shield or weapon. Bashing is an attack to an opponent's health; it carries a chance of staggering an opponent and of interrupting an opponent's power attack. This applies to dragons as well, whose "power attacks" are shouts. If you acquire the Power Bash, Deadly Bash, or Disarming Bash perks, press and hold—instead of tapping—the attack button while blocking to achieve the associated benefit. You can bash (with or without benefits from perks) with two-handed weapons as well as shields; but if equipped with a bow, you can perform only a regular bash. Bashing with a torch will set opponents on fire.

The damage that a bash inflicts depends on the base armor rating (for shields) or the base damage rating (for weapons). Weapons deal more damage than shields. A Power Bash inflicts 3 times as much damage.

Blocking an incoming attack uses a small amount of stamina. Bashing consumes a notable amount (35), while power bashing uses significantly more (55).

rustic latch
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If nexus supported sane markdown - it'd probably be in sync, but even with that converter tool Mym posted - it's annoying

rustic latch
#

No wonder I don't remember it

inner hare
rustic latch
#

yeah, quite literally the only thing

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MW has no concept of power attacks

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nor do I want to introduce something like that

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it doesn't do anything else really besides being "another attack"

inner hare
#

MW already has power attacks

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just less forced

rustic latch
#

well sorta, not in the same sense as skyrim though

inner hare
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no random dmg, remember

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hold attack for full charge attack

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spam click for quick ones

rustic latch
#

Doesn't clock as a "power attack" for me

inner hare
#

because Skyrim only has 2 options

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spam clicks and power attack with yelling

rustic latch
#

difference is immaterial, but "quick attack" and a "full swing"

inner hare
#

MW - a game which came several years before Skyrim - actually had a more gradual system

rustic latch
#

feels way different though

#

several

#

I guess at this point

inner hare
#

I mean

#

it was 9 years difference

#

more time passed since Skyrim's release until now than between Morrowind and Skyrim releases

#

in fact, in a year or so Skyrim-then will be same as Daggerfall-Skyrim time period

#

😅

rustic latch
#

several is usually 3-5, but yeah, I getchu

zenith karma
#

I prefer the mechanics of long presses of mouse/gamepad button being reserved for power attacks, because frankly it's not a very comfortable action to do literally every time I attack.

#

I'd be keen for an alternative, just haven't seen one yet.

rustic latch
#

That actually makes sense

#

both why it exists, and why it's in skyrim

zenith karma
#

And Elden Ring, and...

rustic latch
#

cause my pc gamer brain was talking - I didn't even consider gamepads

#

never had a console growing up - first picked up a gamepad when I was like 25 - so barely think of them ,despite one literally laying on my desk rn

inner hare
#

random unrelated idea: it would be fun if Fatigue % affected animations, with low Fatigue ones being more strained. Unfortunately, considering the number of NPCs and creatures that would need to be supported, it fits Dumb ideas thread.

rustic latch
#

If it could've been done proceduraly - I'm all for it

#

unfortunately it will require 3-4 copies of every animation in the game

inner hare
#

a Walmart option for immersion and feedback would be to add Fatigue-related sound effects

rustic latch
#

Within N'Garde I can slow down all the animations based on fatigue

#

but that would be way too punishing I think

inner hare
#

and it probably wouldn't look good

rustic latch
#

oh it won't

inner hare
#

very hard to balance as well since magic and HTH have to be taken into account

rustic latch
#

people don't suddenly start moving in slow motion cause tired

inner hare
#

I think that additional sound effects with conditions based on HP % and Fatigue % could make combat feel more visceral

zenith karma
#

On a completely unrelated note, it's occurred to me that if it was possible for a "difficulty" mod to scale NPC level dynamically on load, your mod would synergize well with it as higher difficulty NPCs would genuinely fight "smarter" thanks to the level>skill change affecting parry chance. That combined with a mod like Skill Evolution would be similar to something like Fallout Survival Mode or better; much deadlier combat but also higher experience and rewards.

rustic latch
#

Does HBFS adjust skills? Or only health and attributes?

#

Cause that may be the ticket

inner hare
rustic latch
#

damn

#

but well, some attributes affect parry behaviour

inner hare
#

for NGarde purposes, HBFS can scale Luck and Agility

#

and Strength and Endurance for stagger

rustic latch
#

yeah

inner hare
#

all these things affect much more than that, though

#

Fair Care also has regeneration component. Creature with no casting ability can regenerate if it's turned on. Scaling based on END+STR.

#

it's even possible to turn that on for NPCs and the player, lol. All separate settings.

rustic latch
#

nice

rustic latch
#

@grizzled crane I see your comment on nexus, it's easier to reach me here, especially since nexus doesn't reliably sort by "last responded". Do you mean "all attacks hit" is not working with creatures? on 1.0.12?

grizzled crane
rustic latch
#

this is odd. Can't really reproduce

#

can you send me your openmw.log file please?

grizzled crane
#

Sure, but not until tomorrow—I’ll take a closer look then. I’ll start a new game as a test and see if it works. Maybe my save it couldn’t handle the update. I noticed the glitch when my enchanted weapon ran out of enchanment; maybe that’s where the problem lies. If you can’t reproduce the issue, then the problem must be on my end—I’ll get to the bottom of it tomorrow. Good night. 🙂

rustic latch
#

Well, there possibly is an issue. I'll post a cleaned up update in any case - test that one tomorrow

#

1.1.0

  • Potential minor hotfix for "glancing blow" mode for creatures.
  • Cleaned out shelved and WIP stuff
grizzled crane
#

I got up again to test it. But just a quick check with my current save file. It's not working yet. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

IMG_3032.jpg
pastel vine
#

@rustic latch I can confirm something similar regarding Glancing Blows and creatures

#

L0x81000016[scripts/omw/combat/interface.lua] eventHandler[Hit] failed. Lua error: [string "scripts/ngarde/controllers/attack.lua"]:105: attempt to index local 'damageTable' (a nil value)
[00:11:24.150 E] stack traceback:
[00:11:24.150 E] [string "scripts/ngarde/controllers/attack.lua"]:105: in function 'processFumble'
[00:11:24.150 E] [string "scripts/ngarde/creature.lua"]:32: in function <[string "scripts/ngarde/creature.lua"]:12>
[00:11:24.150 E] [string "openmw_aux/util.lua"]:122: in function 'callEventHandlers'
[00:11:24.150 E] [string "scripts/omw/combat/interface.lua"]:130: in function 'onHit'
[00:11:24.150 E] [string "scripts/omw/combat/interface.lua"]:158: in function <[string "scripts/omw/combat/interface.lua"]:158>
[00:11:24.150 E] [C]: in ?

#

I'm on the dev from two days ago and have the most current version. I hope this helps. Thank you

river sluice
# rustic latch That part, thankfully is easy

Honestly that would be 90% perfect for Starwind, even without blaster bolt deflation. Lightsabers are blunt weapons in starwind, so its just unique blunt blocking sounds, plus blunt on blunt blocking sounds

hearty scroll
# rustic latch I mean - this is ass

In Skyrim I mostly used Bash to interrup casters. Hey, how about that? Bash (or feint or whatever you call the equivalent for weapons) can silence the opponent? A very short time? With cooldown, similar to stagger? (the goal isn't to make hybrid characters useless)
That would give it a different use from parry, and since breaking parry isn't a senario that should come up often but spells can't be parried, this would give warriors at least some tools against mages?

rustic latch
fair wing
#

Another movement mod idea, the sprint stop Skyrim mod could maybe be built into RUN

#

As in when you sprint and suddenly stop, there's an animation for a sort of slide to cancel momentum

rustic latch
#

🤔

fair wing
#

I imagine this would be more complicated to do

#

But just an idea

rustic latch
#

I mean - the animation is the main thing probably

#

making sure it looks good with all directions etc

inner hare
#

🤡

fair wing
fair wing
rustic latch
#

@pastel vine , @grizzled crane if you could let me know what type of creature you were fighting then - it may help. I see a potential issue, but still can't reproduce with daedroths, mudcrabs etc

tough juniper
#

Yeah I think Skyrim doesn't let you sprint diagonally for that reason

grizzled crane
#

I noticed it while fighting skeletons. To test it, I tried it on a guar and a mudcrab. It didn't work on either of them. The log is from the guar.

rustic latch
#

Nvm, found the issue, again, shoulda left throwing weapons alone

rustic latch
#

but I'll check that out too

#

Unless it's some special modded skeleton that can't use weapons

grizzled crane
#

Sorry, maybe it was a Bone Walker. Just out of curiosity, what caused the error?

rustic latch
#

Fixed handling for thrown weapons. The "process glancing blow" method needed an extra argument. I've passed handled it in "fencer" scripts, but missed it in "creature that can't parry" one

#

if it was a bonewalker -that makes sense

#

so if "glancing blows" is enabled and the player misses on the creature - the handler chain failed. If you hit it was fine, and since my test character has quite high skills - I didn't notice it

#

I'll spend some time checking other stuff over and will post an update in a little bit

grizzled crane
#

Thank You!

regal egret
#

Suggestion: with high weapon skill, you can block arrows by swinging at them

rustic latch
#

The "high weapon skill" will need to be like 90 or something though

#

at least

#

Testing session aftermath

screenshot152.png
inner hare
#

for witchering

#

if anything

rustic latch
#

Honestly yeah

inner hare
#

I would give it 100+ requirement and perfect parry to be effective

#

otherwise, it should do nothing

#

no partial arrow deflection

#

all or nothing

rustic latch
#

1.1.1

  • Tamriel Data "T_Dwe_Cre_CentArmor_*" creatures removed from the "fencer" blocklist. These can now parry
  • Creature handler update - stagger possible on perfect parry
  • Creature handler update - cleaner script attach and detach
  • Fixed a regression caused by 1.0.10 - Glancing blows mode now should work correctly against creatures
  • Code cleanup to make sure above doesn't happen again.
#

More bugfixes for the god of bugfixes

rustic latch
#

Kind of like with enchants - it currently wants either a perfect parry or a strong enough "weak" parry that you take 0 damage.

Except for arrows I'd drop the second part

regal egret
#

Is there anyone with 100+ weapon skill besides high ordinators?
Even Umbra is only 90

inner hare
#

very high lvl enemies will have 100 weapon skill

#

nobody will have more than 100 unless fortified

#

for NPCs, I mean

tough juniper
#

Bugs for the bug throne!

rustic latch
rustic latch
#

Cause Umbra being able to deflect arrows with the sword is incredibly on brand

#

And I mean, the other silly mechanic - the Iron Palm is 70-80 by default

tough juniper
#

Makes sense, if anyone can do it it should be him

quasi niche
#

divayth fyr is 1-10 levels away from maxing every skill. poser sadcat

rustic latch
#

Maybe both main skill and block at 90? 🤔

#

Umbra then passes

inner hare
#

there are many mods for Umbra

#

but main and block at 90+ would be fine

rustic latch
#

and it's actually harder than main at 100

inner hare
#

hmm

rustic latch
#

well, more investment

inner hare
#

maybe it can be a flexible cap

rustic latch
#

flexible how?

inner hare
#

like 125 long blade would allow you to deflect arrows, but 90 long blade and 90 block would allow it as well

#

hard to call it even a formula. Just some flexibility with choices.

rustic latch
#

hold up. My neighbors fire alarm is blaring brb

#

well, the fucker is cooking apparently, shut your alarm up or open the window then

rustic latch
#

hmm

hearty scroll
inner hare
pastel vine
rustic latch
#

Good morning

#

Good news is it should be fixed

pastel vine
#

Thank you! I will test shortly. Appreciate it as always

misty phoenix
rustic latch
#

I need to install some vivec arena mods

cinder gulch
#

Roaring Arena is lit

rustic latch
#

oooh and bcom compatible

#

ah, fucks sake

image.png
#

(not a big problem but I hate fomods)

cinder gulch
#

MO2 gang

#

But yeah it’s a fun quest

worthy hawk
rustic latch
#

BCOM is fucking atrociuos for it

#

every time it's a game of "WTF did I choose last time"

#

need a fomod - your mod is too big

inner hare
rustic latch
#

Oh, and fomod for Roaring Arena is fucked

#

doesn't extract the esm it needs

#

esm is in the archive in 00 Core, but it's nowhere to be found in mod dir after fomod install

worthy hawk
#

lmao

rustic latch
young aspen
#

Couple more years you could probably do an arena only game

#

Vivec, OE tourney, narsis, blacklight, dargonstar, anvil, kvatch

rustic latch
#

Anvil is just Abecette, right?

young aspen
#

Yeah

rustic latch
#

Well, still - can do a bit of gladiatorial bullshit

young aspen
#

I think maybe kragenmoor has an arena too? I don’t remember

rustic latch
#

Welp, I'm not too surprised but pleased to report that NPCs in arena properly parried and the khajit with the dagger stood no chance

rustic latch
inner hare
# rustic latch this is better, I guess

There is some good stuff there, that's for sure. I would recommend checking out Rebalanced and Nerfed Vanilla Races and Birthsigns. The mods you are using seem to heavily boost birthsigns and races, some of the stuff I see in the description there seems very strong. It's a matter of preference, though. There are many mods altering races and birthsigns around.

Are you using any sort of no pausing in inventory mod? Not sure I saw anything there. They can increase difficulty a lot. It can change your approach to combat when you cannot just do anything in your inventory at your leisure.

For other balance and difficulty enhancers, I can recommend mods like Pay Taxes, Bound Balance, HBFS, Daedra Use Bound Equipment, Fair Care, Mercy, More Deadly Morrowind Denizens, No More Excessive Healing... There is a lot you can use, actually.

young aspen
#

You’re welcome to borrow my list 😄 although I haven’t actually spent much time testing or playing

rustic latch
#

I'm not overly stuck at the idea of making the game harder for myself

inner hare
#

fair

rustic latch
#

I've been running HBFS and Mercy for quite a while - to test them with N'Garde too.

HBFS is nice, but enemies felt spongie to me, maybe needed to play with the settings

young aspen
rustic latch
#

Actually need to install Fair Care, forgot it after I've accidentally wiped my mod dir

young aspen
#

I don’t really care to make MW like, hard

inner hare
young aspen
#

Not what I’m looking for

worthy hawk
#

I like races being decently strong since that also affects NPCs. All races having a good mix of passives, resistances, and powers gives even very weak bandits in the early game situational advantages that can make them dangerous.

rustic latch
#

Mercy I'm conflicted about - it's nice, but I kept it off till the bug is merged, it is now merged - but it causes my game to stutter quite a bit

inner hare
#

powers, for example

worthy hawk
inner hare
#

for OMW?

#

Don't think so

worthy hawk
#

orcs using their berserk against you is SCARY

inner hare
#

and some spells are also player-only as they have no utility for the NPCs

rustic latch
worthy hawk
# inner hare for OMW?

I figured there would be by now, though I haven't checked. I've always used such when doing script extender runs though

inner hare
hearty scroll
rustic latch
#

Moonlight is a bit op yeah

inner hare
rustic latch
#

It's probably not that hard to do - the problem being since NPCs have no other place to use their power - they will always have them ready to fight the PC

inner hare
#

it's stupid when every Dunmer in existance only uses their Sanctuary power against you and it's always available for them, for example

rustic latch
#

bersker or that redguard power or sanctuary on dunmer

worthy hawk
#

you go into a room and three orcs all cast berserk at once, you start booking it the fuck away lmao, I'm totally into that sort of "balance" that can allow even low to mid level mobs be a threat if I'm caught off guard

rustic latch
#

:shudder:

inner hare
#

probably scaled by NPC lvl

rustic latch
rustic latch
inner hare
#

then you remove the problem with every lvl 3 bandit having the powers available against the player

rustic latch
#

Nah, we keep it and just tell people that first lady in addamasartus is now final boss

inner hare
#

lmao

#

the meme would become true

#

it's actually interesting that nobody made such a mod for OMW, huh

#

or at least I don't know about it

rustic latch
#

I haven't looked

inner hare
#

I have, but long ago

worthy hawk
inner hare
rustic latch
#

I don't remember her ever being a problem when I played as a kid

worthy hawk
#

i mean she really isn't haha

rustic latch
#

If I ever died in Addamasartus it was usually to the mage

inner hare
#

one of the weakest enemies in-game

worthy hawk
#

but miss

#

miss

inner hare
#

that first lady

worthy hawk
#

miss

inner hare
#

but then, people die to mudcrabs

rustic latch
#

I mean

#

we can go all in, and make sure she's as legendary as Daggerfall skeleton

worthy hawk
#

give her a trainwiz-style 12 phase boss fight

#

Versus Vivec? Nah, Versus Tanisie Verethi

quick obsidian
#

Quick question, is there a way to implement fractional skill xp for glancing blows / misses? is there already a mod that handles this? I want to disable trainers in my game and I'm looking for a way to fix the xp curve for low level combats

rustic latch
#

or do you want some?

quick obsidian
rustic latch
#

Ah

#

well yeah, there's a way - but I'm not sure it fits

#

you still can get xp by parrying while you're low level in a skill

#

which will get you to useable level

hearty scroll
#

I also use a quite powerful races/birthsings mod. But 1) care more about immersion/customisation than balance and 2) it also applies to NPC. Like, Orcs have 1pt HP regen, permanently. Sounds OP when you choose to play orc, but when every Orc you face has it too... I don't feel so bad anymore ^^'

quick obsidian
#

I see, but I was wondering if there was a way for OpenMWLua to handle that, even if it's not implemented in the main mod

rustic latch
quick obsidian
#

I'd assume it could be implemented by setting it up as a skill use type

rustic latch
#

not as type

#

you'd just need to trigger a skill use when a miss happens

#

to set up a new type - we're going into c++ land

inner hare
# rustic latch this is better, I guess

here is my monster for comparison. I'm always tweaking stuff from playthrough to playthrough, removing things I don't like or adding new mods, sometimes even mid-playthrough if it's possible. I'm quite happy with it regarding overall difficulty, challenge level, balance etc. The game can definitely make me sweat sometimes. I also like how it looks, but that's mostly OMW shaders and Expanded Vanilla stuff with some removals/small adjustments.

📎 message.txt
quick obsidian
rustic latch
#

Yeah

#

that's basically what I do

#

you pass a "scale" to SkillUse

#

pass in a 0.1 and it will be a 10% of "normal"

quick obsidian
#

alright, guess I'll boot up the CS and see how I do, thanks a lot Arrean

rustic latch
#

That won't be in CS :D

#

But yeah, I mean - I'm pretty purposefully not adding it myself - I've angered the purists enough with the "glancing blows"

quick obsidian
inner hare
#

Best 100% hit chance mod

hearty scroll
rustic latch
#

But it should be a relatively straightforward lua mod. But it has some caveats - I don't think an "actor" that made a hit "knows" that it has missed

#

so you may need to catch on the other side - but then you need to be very careful with what scripts and how you attach

quick obsidian
rustic latch
#

no, I meant that when a player character misses an attack - there's no way for you to tell in lua from player context that that has happened

#

you can only see it in the onHit on the target

quick obsidian
rustic latch
#

No

#

The base game mechanics is still there.

#

Misses don't give XP, hits give XP. What changes is that you as a modder have no visibility into if specific attack was a miss, unless you look at it from the targets perspective

quick obsidian
inner hare
hearty scroll
rustic latch
inner hare
rustic latch
inner hare
#

Sb won a contest for the most misinformed post, I think 😅

cinder gulch
hearty scroll
#

Wouldn't really be so... striking, if that person wasn't making "balancing changes" suggestions huhu

rustic latch
#

I feel bad tooting my own horn, so I really only respond on nexus, or if people are having issues. But writing that up while all of that is in the description is toddmad

hearty scroll
#

(especially since the suggested changes are exactly how the mod actually works lmao)

rustic latch
#

^

hearty scroll
#

I can even understand the people asking "does this mod do X ?" because they couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing if the mod didn't have that "X" feature they care strongly about.

#

But the guy is saying he'd like to see some "balancing changes"

rustic latch
#

Oh, ffs and there's a new guy in youtube comments going "would've been so cool if it was compatible with Mercy"

hearty scroll
#

while he hasn't even played the mod or read the description

rustic latch
hearty scroll
rustic latch
#

:P

inner hare
#

MW is often rightfully criticised for not explaining some of its mechanics well in-game, but based on various comments about the game or mods I saw on the net, it would only have helped so much.

rustic latch
#

Those are the minority, thankfully

#

at least so far

inner hare
#

I think that some players are also naturally reserved about "big" mods. They don't want them to change things which heavily affect their perception of the game or the things they are used to, so they don't even make effort to read about the mod in detail. I also noticed this approach with some players so much used to MSWE that the things they say about OMW are heavily outdated or just untrue.

rustic latch
#

🤷‍♂️ People do be people

inner hare
#

They can use what they want, but it's weird when sb complains about stuff which is, well... BS

kindred imp
#

Guess what I saw in a random recent Skyrim video todd

image.png
quasi niche
#

there was somebody complaining hours ago that openmw doesn't have a 'script extender'. like i mean, what sadcat

rustic latch
rustic latch
quasi niche
#

then proceeded to throw down 'tell me if it even had extra hotkey mods' like it's a clincher and someone very much corrected that misapprehension

kindred imp
rustic latch
#

I guess

#

Liam is working on seasons mod with it

#

I am in awe of what it does - but am currently blanking on what I may use it for though

quasi niche
rustic latch
kindred imp
rustic latch
#

I mean - that and integrating irc/discord/etc chat into the game were pitches S3ctor made

#

I'm not sure I'd want that 36vehks

inner hare
rustic latch
young aspen
#

This and bullseye are my base v+ combat mods even though they’re arguably big mechanical changes

misty phoenix
kindred imp
#

at least that's what I know

inner hare
rustic latch
#

@quick obsidian yo

#

^

cinder gulch
#

requires a Fork of openMW 0.51

kindred imp
#

yet no specifics on the spork is given caius

rustic latch
#

Bleugh

#

oh well

cinder gulch
#

But if you wanted to do funny things with skills you can just override the lua one shipped with the engine

rustic latch
cinder gulch
#

They (the devs) encourage it todd

rustic latch
#

They love their little psychos

#

But it's bound to be a compatibility nightmare

cinder gulch
#

Means you’ll need to do patches or work with other modders also overwriting them since yeah

rustic latch
inner hare
#

Oh, yeah

#

I'm wondering what's @tough juniper current mod count

inner hare
tough juniper
#

i know sadcat

#

he always sees

rustic latch
tough juniper
#

i didnt read far enough into the conversation

#

1561

inner hare
tough juniper
#

yeah idk how they do those numbers yagrwut its surprisingly stable though, but i tend to have about a cell view distance

#

its like og morrowind

#

except insane

#

on the juice

quasi niche
#

i feel infinitely better about my 500 already somehow, thx