Make A Profit

[hot cypress]

Trade overhaul that makes the Mercantile skill meaningful. Requires Inventory Extender. [WIP]

Features

• Characters with low mercantile can't see what their items are worth. Gold values are hidden in both tooltips and inventory until your Mercantile skill reaches a configurable threshold (default 25). Gold is always shown. The hidden text is customisable and you can set the threshold to 0 to disable entirely.
• Skooma, moon sugar, raw ebony, raw glass, and dwemer artifacts are considered contraband. Law-abiding merchants will not see these items in your inventory during barter. Illicit traders such as smugglers, members of the Thieves Guild or Camonna Tong, and anyone with an alarm value of 0 will still deal in contraband.
• Inventory categories are hidden if the merchant doesn't deal in that category. For example, an alchemist won't show the Weapon tab, a smith won't show Potions, and so on. Categories are restored when you leave the trade window. Merchants who buy enchanted/magic items will keep categories for enchantable item types visible.
• Pawnbrokers only buy and sell weapons and armor that are damaged items. Pristine gear is hidden on both sides of the trade window.
• All features are individually togglable in the in-game settings menu under Make A Profit

Kinda going for something like Buying Game, this is mostly the foundation for the other features I'll be adding over time

[rotund walrus]

Is there anything in particular you would like tested?

Also, thank you

[shadow sphinx]

I love the idea. Actually hiding them altogether would be an interesting idea too (You apperently can, cool)

I guess the deeper problem that persists is that the economy and value of items remains broken 😄. It'd be nice if you'd make your money buy being merchant or selling potions or by completing quests. In reality you hunt artifacts and sell glass items to get rich immediately.

[rotund walrus]

Law-abiding merchants is a big deal too!! So great

[shadow sphinx]

but yes, I like the idea of hiding the gold values

[hot cypress]

Contraband is probably the most dicey, I know there are a lot of mods that add/expand on it which I'd like this mod to be compatible with if possible. I also didn't test with Tamriel Rebuilt's classes and whatnot, so if anyone wants to try this mod out and is in TR lands let me know if there's anything I missed

Don't think I have punavit products as contraband but I'd probably do something special for that

[rotund walrus]

Is there anything in particular you would like us to look out for?

[dire zephyr]

Do we have access to gold values in the API? Won't be testing it for a bit, as I'm sticking to 0.50. But I'm wondering if we can do approximate values that get more precise as we raise the skill.

E.g.

cheap items - even a lowskill character would have a decent idea what they cost, 1 or 2 gold for some food doesn't make sense to hide,

But maybe reveal one more significant digit of the price of each item as skill rises?

e.g.:
lvl 00: 1?????
lvl 10: 11????
lvl 20: 111???

thresholds are out of my ass, but the general idea - at zero skill we have decent knowledge of what stuff costs in 0-9 gold range, then 10-99, then 100-999 etc

So, e.g/ a middling character will understand that a glass swords costs "some thousands" How many thousands? No clue

[hot cypress]

Checking mod compatibility for mods that handle contraband in any way would be a good one, I only tested on a very barebones cfg but I know there are a ton of mods which change or expand on it. I might change the contraband mechanics in the future but idk, I kinda like this

[rotund walrus]

Okay I will and I'll head to Tamriel Rebuilt and test on those vendors

[hot cypress]

There’s no blatant OpenMW API for altering gold prices as far as I know, but 0.51 exposed merchant gold which is why inventory extender is able to exist in the first place. But yeah it’s possible to have scaling values for tooltip displays, this is just the identical mechanic that Buying Game has

[rotund walrus]

And this would obviously replace mods such as Better Merchant Skills, correct?

[dire zephyr]

Not necessarily altering, I meant just the tooltips

[hot cypress]

Probably, since I’ll be expanding on the mechanics of merchants and bartering a bit such as regional pricing and more

[hot cypress]

Yup, no API in openmw for tooltips at all. I’m only able to change the ones in Ralts’ UI

[dire zephyr]

Ah, right. So then there would be a disconnect between inworld hover and inventory hover

[hot cypress]

Which covers your inventory and bartering but unfortunately your character is omniscient and knows the prices of things before you add them to your inventory 😅 although quickloot will be adding support I think

Which kinda covers everything

[regal bloom]

Values are hidden
I'm an absolute sucker for this, manually added this to Skyrim years ago lol. Is it configurable at what threshold this goes away?

[hot cypress]

Yup

[regal bloom]

Honestly love minimizing "metagamey" UI as much as possible

:D rad

[shadow sphinx]

"Skooma, moon sugar, raw ebony, raw glass, and dwemer artifacts are considered contraband." Yes, that's good. I always disliked how they xrayed my inventory somehow

[hot cypress]

Me too, I think it’s cool that Morrowind has unique dialogue and mechanics for contraband and whatnot but also yeah it’s silly they know everything in your inventory and placing it down in front of them is 👌

[regal bloom]

Gonna toss this in my frankenstein mod list, will let you know if i notice any nasty conflicts

[shadow sphinx]

"Pawnbrokers only buy and sell weapons and armor that are damaged items. " Interesting idea, for sure

[hot cypress]

Yeah that’s also a feature of The Buying Game that I liked

[regal bloom]

We just need dialogue for it now. Try to sell a Daedric Dagger to a pawnbroker, "Best I can do is 57 gold"

[hot cypress]

This is the MWSE mod, I never played it but most (if not all) is doable with Inventory Extender. Obviously not a port and I’ll be adding my own features here and there but this is the territory I’m going for https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/50574

[rotund walrus]

That sounds excellent, especially regional pricing. Again, I love the idea of contrand etc. Thank you so much

Yeah the Buying Game is something people on Openmw always wanted so your mod is going to be huge

[hot cypress]

Yeah for sure, it’s a pleasure :) and everything is still very much WIP, I won’t upload to nexus until ralts posts inventory extender, so feel free to shoot ideas

[wild anvil]

Why does it require inventory extender? 🙂

[rotund walrus]

Will do brother. Thank you.

[hot cypress]

Because there’s no API in openmw for editing tooltips, but Ralts completely replaced the inventory in lua which means most anything in the inventory can be edited with his mod

[wild anvil]

Bloody hell I didn’t realise he was that much of a machine

[hot cypress]

With Sun’s Dusk and a few of my other mods I added tooltips to items, with this mod I haven’t touched tooltips but I’m able to hide gold values and columns

But you can do a lot, he has a lot of APIs and will likely expand on them before he releases it. For example you can have custom columns and icons and stuff

[hot cypress]

Fr fr he’s cracked

[rotund walrus]

Have you heard from Ralts recently? I'm just worried haha

[hot cypress]

Nope, I haven’t either hope he’s alright

[rotund walrus]

Me too

[wild anvil]

For real. If this combine the features of Buying Game with For the Right Price, meaning Lua powered dynamic pricing and scaled down economy that would be my dream come true

[rotund walrus]

Yeah definitely

[wild anvil]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/52668

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/45529

Are the two I use, would love a Lua replacement. Increased (adjustable even better) costs for travel and training as well as reducing expensive item value it the #1 way Morrowind can be made harder imo

Regional pricing too would be amazing. Opening up a true merchant roleplay

[wild anvil]

And I won’t need my lazy esp anymore and can redirect OpenMW players to this instead 😄

[wild anvil]

Make sure to include greydust, which is local to newest update region 🙂

[shadow sphinx]

Another issue is that the player can carry so unbelievably many items. There's no issue carrying five complete armor sets

[wild anvil]

Diablo 2 style inventory when?

[shadow sphinx]

My jank backpack mod exists

but that's more like an expirement

It'd be better if items where weighed by their volume, perhaps

Imagine if you could somehow get the x length, y length, and z value of an item and make the weigth calculated out of that. Or just try to get as close to the real life values in kg. Good luck carrying 100 kg. The main advantage is that you can just google what certain items would weigh without fancy math

[hot cypress]

Interesting, I didn’t know this mod was an esp 0.o

[rotund walrus]

Yeah I could definitely see this in Make a Profit

[wicked tulip]

Uhm... How playable the mod is right now? 😳

[rotund walrus]

@hot cypress https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/47456 I'm not sure if you want to take a look at this for inspiration since Make A Profit will make it outdated

[hot cypress]

Completely playable haha

[wild anvil]

I love how Make it Profit keeps the idea of contraband without making you put moon sugar on the floor for no reason

can't wait to install this once 0.51 is out

[hot cypress]

Yeah I’d like to expand on it a bit further since I guess yeah it would make mods like Service Refusal and Contraband obsolete like zsouza said but I like that mod and not sure how to go about that <_>

[wild anvil]

Likely out of scope, but guards could dynamically search the player very rarely when entering town. Could be part of a theivery mod

[hot cypress]

Hmm

There are a few other mods which would be able to handle that better but I might be able to do something similar

Always a goal is avoid attaching scripts to every NPC in the game if possible 😄 (for some mods it can’t be helped tho)

[wild anvil]

Yeah I probably wouldn't use a mod like I just posted because it's too intrusive

that's why I love your work, it's not at all intrusive

[hot cypress]

I’ll do something like the buying game where you can trade with any NPC and yeah maybe guards would have special responses xD

[wild anvil]

regional prices too? buying stuff from the north to sell in the south where it's not found at a large profit is awesome

[hot cypress]

Yeah that’s on the list too, I want to investigate how the Buying Game does it to see if I want to take a similar or different approach

Because yeah I’m not sure what products would be cheap or expensive in what particular locations, at least offhand

[naive escarp]

Not to mention PT and TR stuff 😅

[wicked tulip]

Yeah, this is a nice idea ☝️

[hot cypress]

Alrighty folks what do we want next while I'm feeling motivated

[wicked tulip]

regional currency???

I know Safebox was working on something similar for MWSE

[hot cypress]

Not yet haha but yeah it's on the list

[wicked tulip]

(I can't care less about it, but it's funny)

[naive escarp]

Oooh

How would that even work

[hot cypress]

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/51439

[naive escarp]

Woah

[rotund walrus]

Regional bartering and fixing the formula will be huge

Very excited for this

Ty

[regal bloom]

Would be pretty neat if Ashlanders for example just outright don't have a currency, barter only

but I'd imagine that would be really awkward to pull off with exact values

[runic dock]

Could make use of the Dwemer and ayelid coins I’ve been finding

[round current]

Can you mess with vendors inventories after the fact? Could be out of scope but it would be nice to see their stock refreshed every once in a while

[hot cypress]

Yes but I’m not familiar with the API for it, just filtering things out such as what I did with pawnbrokers. If you want a mod that messes with restocking there’s this mod https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/54952

[round current]

Oh! I use this. It just stops instant restocking though, yeah?

[hot cypress]

I think so yeah

[round current]

So that's cool to have to stop the abuse of the mechanics/realism, but it would be nice to see it extend it beyond that imo

[wild anvil]

Feature request: Option to make the haggle button automatically select the max value obtainable. Perhaps even gated past 50 mercantile. Nice QoL

I also noted these down for if I ever managed to delve into Lua properly (it’ll be years at this rate lol) so if you implemented these I’d be eternally grateful

Top bullet is - instead of only haggling raising merchant skill
Middle bullet is - to avoid the exploit I use where I sell 60 1gp items individually to boost a merchants disposition to 100 in order to get the best prices for the good gear I want to sell

[wild plinth]

How about making an option to view % chance of the merchant accepting the offer, just like in this mod?

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/55108

[hot cypress]

Oh that’s interesting, I wasn’t planning on adding buttons but I can eventually work towards that

[summer coral]

Auto haggle would be nice

How much time have I spent moving prices up and down in single gold increments to find the right price

[hot cypress]

Yeah I can work towards that, it’ll be much further down the road since I don’t want to do any UI stuff (at least with this mod) at the moment xd

[visual gazelle]

woo excitin! i got my internet cut off and come back to this

[ashen raven]

same lol

I want to become a trading agent with this so much

[hot cypress]

Yeah I plan to add investing and some other stuff but that’ll be a little later on

[visual gazelle]

Could it be based on chance if they notice or not? Or some kind of semi-disposable item, I would miss that feature I think. Unless there was some kind of regular shake downs from guards or something. I guess the vanilla mechanic isn't the most thought out but still i like some kind of way to feel like "shady smuggler" rather than "guy who forgot to check his pockets before getting on a plane"

[hot cypress]

Funny enough I think the new dialogue API has a solution. So at the moment with this mod for some merchants (or all of them? idk) they still won’t trade with you but this mod makes them disappear from the trade window with them
The new dialogue API lets me force the trade window anyway I believe, you’ll just still hear the dialogue about contraband and how they won’t trade skooma and stuff haha. So I think that solves a bit of that problem

[visual gazelle]

Oh interesting. Maybe it could it be a hit to their disposition? That would smooth out a lot of compatibility with those contraband related mods

Could be scaled based on your relationship with the trader, so friends turn a blind eye

[hot cypress]

That’s true haha

[runic current]

Probably very out of scope, but along with regional pricing it would be nice to have some way to buy bulk

[hot cypress]

Yeah that’s more of a WARES/restocking thing which I don’t really want to touch atm

The restocking in openmw is kinda cursed and I know there are a lot of engine features with it still lurking around

[runic current]

I think there's a way you could do it similar to the homecooking thing that wouldn't touch the vanilla stocking system and IMO work a lot better

[hot cypress]

Like making a fake inventory ? Or a new dialogue ? Or a new UI? The homecooked meals is kinda all of those (except the fake inventory I think)

[runic current]

Yeah, make a new dialogue with a list of the trader items. Place an order for X of something they have in stock. (Wait awhile?)

[hot cypress]

Yeah I’m not interested in making any new UIs for this mod at all anytime soon xd maybe in the future but that could be done in vanilla without the inventory extender whereas this mod is entirely reliant on it

[visual gazelle]

Do it with mwscript text boxes

Ill see myself out

[runic current]

Stormwind Expanded does it with dialogue prompts
Honestly, I might do it, but feel free to make a better one if you get bored.

[rotund walrus]

I do notice that sometimes the barter menu will stay open when leaving the menu itself. It will overlay the dialogue window itself. And I'm not sure if intended but I did notice that Make A Profit does shift the order of the Icons (i.e. weapons, armor, misc, etc) in the main inventory itself after bartering. I hope this is helpful my friend.

[hot cypress]

Hmm

[hot cypress]

I think I heard that was happening with just the inventory extender but thank you, I’ll investigate

Any way to reproduce it ?

[rotund walrus]

I notice it sometimes happening if you open and close barter. It doesn't happen all the time though

[wicked tulip]

[15:37:41.745 E] L@0x1[scripts/inventoryextender/api.lua] onUpdate failed. Lua error: [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/templates/itemta..."]:73: attempt to compare number with string
[15:37:41.745 E] stack traceback:
[15:37:41.745 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/templates/itemta..."]:73: in function 'compareItems'
[15:37:41.745 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/templates/itemta..."]:156: in function <[string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/templates/itemta..."]:138>
[15:37:41.745 E]     [C]: in function 'sort'
[15:37:41.745 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/templates/itemta..."]:138: in function 'sortRows'
[15:37:41.745 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/templates/itemta..."]:764: in function 'refresh'
[15:37:41.745 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/api.lua"]:188: in function <[string "scripts/inventoryextender/api.lua"]:181>
[15:37:41.745 E]     [C]: in ?

Getting this when closing the barter menu. Plus after the MaP UI is closed, default Inventory Extender UI shows up with all the options

[hot cypress]

0.o

Yeah sure thing I’ll take a looksie

[wicked tulip]

I've tried to exit the menu by clicking RMB I think

[hot cypress]

How to replicate ?

[wicked tulip]

uhhh, let me try again

[hot cypress]

Yeah sure

[wicked tulip]

Couldn't replicate this exact bug, but instead had something similar, yet different. It's inconsistent and happens by just closing the UI. Half of the barter UI gets closed and half is not

[15:49:12.485 E] L@0x1[scripts/makeaprofit/player.lua] onFrame failed. Lua error: [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/templates/catego..."]:210: attempt to index a nil value
[15:49:12.485 E] stack traceback:
[15:49:12.485 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/templates/catego..."]:210: in function 'updateCategories'
[15:49:12.485 E]     [string "scripts/makeaprofit/player.lua"]:319: in function 'updateCategoryFilterUI'
[15:49:12.485 E]     [string "scripts/makeaprofit/player.lua"]:382: in function 'onEnterBarter'
[15:49:12.485 E]     [string "scripts/makeaprofit/player.lua"]:429: in function <[string "scripts/makeaprofit/player.lua"]:417>
[15:49:12.485 E]     [C]: in ?
[15:49:16.132 E] L@0x1[scripts/omw/ui.lua] _onUiModeChanged failed. Lua error: [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/templates/catego..."]:210: attempt to index a nil value
[15:49:16.132 E] stack traceback:
[15:49:16.132 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/templates/catego..."]:210: in function 'updateCategories'
[15:49:16.132 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/windows/inventor..."]:1150: in function 'setVisible'
[15:49:16.132 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/ui/windowmanager.lua"]:131: in function 'hide'
[15:49:16.132 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/api.lua"]:35: in function 'hide'
[15:49:16.132 E]     [string "scripts/inventoryextender/player.lua"]:33: in function 'hideFn'
[15:49:16.132 E]     [string "scripts/omw/ui.lua"]:109: in function <[string "scripts/omw/ui.lua"]:102>
[15:49:16.132 E]     [C]: in ?

[hot cypress]

Interesting

Yeah I’ll take a look, obviously this was caused from my end 0.o I think you can disable inventory filtering in the settings which should fix that

[wicked tulip]

Am I supposed to see item values in the barter menu, if I don't see them in my inventory? 🤔

[hot cypress]

Yup

Because merchants know what things are worth :)

[wicked tulip]

and they won't lie to you? 🧐

[hot cypress]

Not right now ;)

Nah I’m not sure how I’ll go about it, I’m waiting to see if ralts will add an interface but I think I have a solution in the meantime

Think I’ll test it out with service NPCs first though

[wicked tulip]

I would maybe suggest adding an option (or skill requirement for low to mid levels) to display a potential range of the item value instead of it being unknown

Like ebony ore (base 200 gold) being evaluated something like 150-400 in the UI

[hot cypress]

Yeah I think I might but not sure exactly what to make it look like in the UI without it looking terrible

[wicked tulip]

and maybe incorporate enchant/armorer/alchemy to the mix for evaluating enchanted items/equipment/potions and ingredients

[hot cypress]

What do you mean ?

[wicked tulip]

I think just 150-400 would be sufficient 🤔

[hot cypress]

Seeing that many numbers in the inventory columns will not look good haha

Tooltips maybe but not the columns

[wicked tulip]

Enchanters will probably know better how much enchanted items are worth

[hot cypress]

Hmm

Maybe

[wicked tulip]

being bad at the "crafting" skills might increase the error in item evaluation

this sort of thing

[hot cypress]

Maybe

Adding more conditions to see prices might get messy though, maybe I can add a setting like “seeing item values is more difficult” based on several factors like you said but eh

The value of items you see in your inventory will also be different than what you see at merchants since those will have regional pricing, faction bias, etc

[wicked tulip]

maybe an already incorrect guess will work too 300?

[hot cypress]

Yeah in general it’ll be approximate value or something at mid levels

Since merchants won’t always give you the best deal or anything

But I have a few things to do first before I add more things to this mod other than the bug fixes ofc

[wicked tulip]

Found a bug that prevents you from closing inventory. Happens when you click "sort by value"

[hot cypress]

Good to know, thank you

[ashen raven]

Feature request: Make the tooltip show if the item you want to buy is restocking merchendise or not!

[hot cypress]

Working on implementing regions and imports/exports from the Buying Game

There are a few things in the database I don’t quite agree with but that’s for another day at the moment I’m just yoinking it

[rotund walrus]

Very excited my friend. I look forward to testing. Thank you

[hot cypress]

Working on investing and allowing trading and item with any merchant

[wicked tulip]

blasphemy

[hot cypress]

At high mercantile skill haha sorry

It’s been an adventure

I wanted to do Buying Game’s trade with any NPC, but you can’t add services to NPCs (openmw lol) and the workarounds are cursed to say the very least

So unfiltered merchant trading it is

[summer coral]

Somewhat unrelated, have you looked at TR’s stock framework at all?

On the topic of investing

[hot cypress]

Yeah I have a mechanic for investing but no idea what TR does. What do they have going on?

[summer coral]

It’s the stock framework, so there’s a set of companies you can buy and sell stocks for and they have day to day price movements (plus some other specific scripted effects that change the value of the stock)

afaik it’s all globals that you interact with via dialogue

[hot cypress]

Oh word, yeah I can definitely do something with that

[summer coral]

https://wiki.project-tamriel.com/wiki/Stock_Exchange_Framework

[hot cypress]

Is that not all done with mwscript at the moment?

[wicked tulip]

yes

[summer coral]

Yeah I think it’s all mwscript

[hot cypress]

I’m not sure what I would add from my end then haha, maybe mercantile xp for investing in those?

[wicked tulip]

My only suggestion is adding interest rates to their Banking Framework

so it would serve not just as a money transfer service, but a passive income too

[hot cypress]

I was thinking about adding interest, but then I’d have to add debt too no?

[wicked tulip]

[insert taxes mod here]

[hot cypress]

Can you go into debt with that mod?

[wicked tulip]

Technically, yes. If you can't pay your taxes, the paycheck is transfered to your bounty

So in theory you can get into the debt spiral

[naive escarp]

You should let me take out a mortgage on Fargoth’s Mountain Hut

[runic current]

https://www.moddb.com/mods/vaelta-mod-archive
Stocks from Vaelta's Imperial Bank mod need an OpenMW-ization if you really want to do something with stocks

[hot cypress]

Probably won't go hard with that for this coming update but def in scope for the future

[hot cypress]

This is in showcase too but I added investing in merchants (creeper and mudcrab merchant are configurable in the settings), and also I think I might have unintentionally """""fixed""""" the bartering UI bugging out

Also at a high mercantile skill (configurable) you can trade with anyone regardless of whether they have the bartering service or not

[shadow sphinx]

https://i.sstatic.net/eEqWu.gif

[visual gazelle]

The bather faction value nakedness above all else

[cunning python]

Does this mod have a release date? Maybe even a beta? I like the trading with anyone feature.

[hot cypress]

Yeah, I’ll put out a test version within the next day or two but I plan on having some features for vanilla Morrowind or if inventory extender isn’t installed

You’ll be missing out on half the features but there are a few things that I can do with the base game

[wild anvil]

Man, I really hope Ralts returns (and that he's okay) soon

[rotund walrus]

He sent a small message to me on Nexus. I hope he's doing well. I look forward to his return.

[hot cypress]

Nice!! Good to hear :)

Will he be back for modathon ?

[rotund walrus]

I'm not too sure, my friend. I didn't want to pry too much about his absence. But I thanked him for his work.

[hot cypress]

Yeah for sure

[summer coral]

I hope they're well, real g of a modder

[hot cypress]

The Merlord of openmw

[naive escarp]

There’s a few people who could have that title

Ralts is an actual wizard though

[cunning python]

Wonder how Inventory Extender is coming along

Except for the fact Pickpocketing is not detected, it is solid

[hot cypress]

Quickloot

But even if inventory extender doesn’t make it to nexus, half the features of this mod don’t require it

[cunning python]

Nice!

Now tell me

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-ultra-ego-angry-gif-7169566606590383465

When is your mod coming to beta

I need to trade with fargoth and gift him a thousand gold

[hot cypress]

Probably tomorrow, need to polish up a few things

[hot cypress]

Okay update will be out later today, will require the latest version of sun's dusk (also will be uploaded later today) for a few features but not a hard requirement. Inventory Extender also isn't required for a few of the features although obviously I recommend it even as a beta

[rotund walrus]

I look forward to testing it

Thank you

[hot cypress]

Features

Service Haggling

• Dice roll whenever you pay an NPC for training, travel, repairs, spell buying, spell creation, or enchanting
• Chance to have critical success, normal success, normal failure and critical failure with configurable percentages.
• Mercantile xp rewarded on successful haggles
• A separate mod for increased service price GMSTs is recommended so this feature is actually meaningful, I can make one if ppl are interested but there are plenty floating around

Investment

• Spend gold to permanently boost a merchant's barter gold
• Optional disposition increase tied to how much gold you invest
• High Mercantile skill will allow you to invest more gold
• Works on Creeper, Mudcrab Merchant, and other creature merchants. Setting is enabled by default.
• Locked behind Mercantile skill, 25 by default.
• If Inventory Extender is installed, a new Invest button will appear on the Barter UI. Otherwise, [Barter] is added as a dialogue topic.

Custom Barter Pricing (requires Inventory Extender)

• Bartering formula has been replaced with a custom formula taking player and merchant Personality, Mercantile skill, fatigue, disposition, and a little Luck
• Small rank bonus when bartering with NPCs of the same faction, appears as a tooltip when bartering
• Adjusted prices for damaged weapons and armor along with soul size in soul gems
• Penalty is applied when offering far less/more than the merchant's offer
• Mercantile skill xp is awarded depending on how much you beat the merchant's offer
• If "Trade with anyone" skill is unlocked, you'll get a worse deal

Merchant Class Specializations (requires Inventory Extender)

• Merchants offer better prices for items based on their class, such as Alchemists offering better ingredient prices
• Over 120 class-based price bonuses covering vanilla, TD, and OAAB classes
• Special category matching for food and drinks, soul gems, and enchanted items
• Fallback to offered services for unknown/modded classes
• Locked behind a Mercantile skill, before they apply or appear in tooltips so you'll get scammed at lower merc levels. 35 by default.

Trade Anything with Anyone (Requires Inventory Extender)

• Unlocks a [Trade] dialogue topic that lets you barter with any NPC, not just merchants
• Locked behind a mercantile skill, 100 by default.
• Gives a non-violent way to complete certain quests
• Bypasses item restrictions such as selling potions to a smith and buying equipped armor and clothes from anyone directly from their inventory
• A price penalty is applied along with reduced disposition gain

Contraband Hiding (Requires Inventory Extender)

• Prevents bartering skooma, moon sugar, raw ebony, raw glass, and Dwemer artifacts from law-abiding merchants
• Smugglers, Thieves Guild, Camonna Tong, and alarm-0 NPCs still accept contraband
• Restricted items are greyed out from abusing using IE's disabled function rather than hidden outright

Pawnbroker Rules (Requires Inventory Extender)

• Pawnbrokers only buy and sell damaged weapons and armor
• Uses same disabled/tinted function as contraband

Regional Supply & Demand (requires Inventory Extender and latest version of Sun's Dusk)

• Items flagged as exports are cheap to sell and cheap to buy, imports are more expensive to sell and more expensive to buy based on the region a merchant is in
• Special imports/exports for specific towns
• Uses sun's dusk as a hard dependency as a performance optimisation for this feature so that you don't have 2 different mods loading all nearby cells
• Import and Export-awareness is locked behind Mercantile skill so you only benefit from export prices once you know about them. 40 by default.
• Database is directly from Buying Game (aside from the ashfall products which have been replaced by sun's dusk) but I'm disappointed with how incomplete it is and will make a new database when I feel like making a ballin spreadsheet

Tooltips and UI

• Item values are obscured in your inventory below a specific Mercantile skill.
  • Value in tooltip and the V/W column is hidden until the skill requirement is met
  • Text appears as ??? by default and is revealed at 15
  • Bartering with a merchant will reveal value of items since you do not have the skill to know the value of items yourself
• Adjusted price is added to the tooltip when regional or class specialization modifiers are applied

Any other features ppl want ? Most everything is configurable and you can enable and disable every feature

[summer coral]

🥹 ❤️

what all actions result in mercantile xp

[hot cypress]

I tried to kinda limit it since there are some mods that add ways to get mercantile xp and some upcoming mods that will add merc xp too, so not sure how but I'll add on but right now it's successfully haggling in bartering and successfully haggling for services

Suppose I could do investing too but that already gives a disposition increase

Think I could do gift giving too

Hmm

[summer coral]

Makes sense - I find the vanilla way of getting experience based on how well you barter to be pretty annoying since you're really incentivized to toggle up and down on the deal which is not like, a fun activity imo

[hot cypress]

Yeah except the vanilla bartering sucks so it's difficult to get merc xp

[summer coral]

Like i'd take worse deals and less xp if I could get it from an auto-haggler

[hot cypress]

Oh yeah the auto pricing is still there and whatnot though I might be able to do more with it, like "Best price" or something

Not sure if I'll do that now or when inventory extender actually comes out though since I already put it through a lot of abuse

like this, which is all that's holding the invest button together:

    G_onFrameJobs['investRefresh'] = function()
        G_onFrameJobs['investRefresh2'] = function()
            G_onFrameJobs['investRefresh3'] = function()
                G_onFrameJobs['investRefresh4'] = function()
                    G_onFrameJobs['investRefresh5'] = function()
                        G_onFrameJobs['investRefresh6'] = function()
                            G_onFrameJobs['investRefresh7'] = function()
                                G_onFrameJobs['investRefresh8'] = function()
                                    G_onFrameJobs['investRefresh9'] = function()
                                        local IE = I.InventoryExtender
                                        if IE then
                                            local tw = IE.getWindow('Trade')
                                            if tw and tw.infoBar then 
                                                tw.infoBar.layout.userData.updateAll()
                                            end
                                            local iw = IE.getWindow('Inventory')
                                            if iw and iw.infoBar then
                                              iw.infoBar.layout.userData.updateAll()
                                            end
                                        end
                                    end
                                end
                            end
                        end
                    end
                end
            end
        end
    end```

[summer coral]

I also use talking trains speechcraft which I like so maybe I just need shopping trains mercantile

[wild anvil]

Cannot wait to test this out!!!

[sage gyro]

so, we'll be actually able to get rich buy storing up stuff on Vvardenfell and sailing to Anvil to sell it for exorbitant prices and vice versa?

[hot cypress]

The database is from MWSE's Buying Game which is ............... very lacking to say the least

[sage gyro]

Understood

[hot cypress]

But eventually though yeah, I think something like that would be cool

Buying Game has like less than 30 or so entries from TD

The "luxury" category was originally like ... 5 items, I was so embarrased I just added all of the TD exquisite clothing

I can make a list of all the import/export items and categories per region if you want

[wild anvil]

I hate that I've used LLMs so much I'm reading their touch in sentences typed by humans

[wicked tulip]

Mercantile xp rewarded on successful haggles
A separate mod for increased service price GMSTs is recommended so this feature is actually meaningful, I can make one if ppl are interested but there are plenty floating around
Any suggestions for the mods? Or your personal stack for "fixed trading economy"

Also, there's the link to download it? I reckon it was shared here some time ago, but I don't feel like searching for it :p

[hot cypress]

I thought you had a mod for increased travel prices but maybe I was thinking of someone else

[hot cypress]

There's a link in here somewhere but you'll want the update anyway, it's done i'm just having ownlyme look over it for quality assurance haha

[wicked tulip]

just for teleportation
and even then I've ditched it and deleted from Nexus

[summer coral]

C&E taxes for moving exotic goods over province lines

[hot cypress]

Hahaha I was looking for it, no wonder I couldn't find it

[summer coral]

Want to ship your kwama eggs to Anvil and make a profit? Uncle Uriel needs his cut

[old venture]

i can't find inventory extender

[hot cypress]

#1467920462767063232 message

[quaint goblet]

_ralts_

update:

- Added grid view option (experimental and very poorly optimized)
- Fixed windows appearing one frame delayed when switching modes (most noticeable when bartering)
- Fixed various bugs related to bartering
- Made keys un-barterable
- Made category icons easier to click
- Made it possible to pick up scripted items with the cursor

Attachment(s)

InventoryExtender.7z

Linked by @​hyacinth2199 from #Inventory Extender · Feb 3, 2026, 10:09 PM

[old venture]

thx thx i appreciate your work

[cunning python]

The mod isn't available yet, right?

[hot cypress]

Not on nexus, I'll be posting it here within a few minutes

[cunning python]

Yey

[cunning python]

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-ultra-ego-angry-gif-7169566606590383465

[hot cypress]

Nexus is slow

[cunning python]

The Torment Nexus it must be...

[hot cypress]

Changelog is here: #1479838353556766851 message
Be sure to enable both the .omwaddon and the .omwscripts as the .omwaddon is new (all that's in it is 2 topics with 1 dialogue each)

[quaint goblet]

hyacinth2199

Features

Service Haggling

• Dice roll whenever you pay an NPC for training, travel, repairs, spell buying, spell creation, or enchanting
• Chance to have critical success, normal success, normal failure and critical failure with configurable percentages.
• Mercantile xp rewarded on successful haggles
• A separate mod for increased service price GMSTs is recommended so this feature is actually meaningful, I can make one if ppl are interested but there are plenty floating around

Investment

• Spend gold to permanently boost a merchant's barter gold
• Optional disposition increase tied to how much gold you invest
• High Mercantile skill will allow you to invest more gold
• Works on Creeper, Mudcrab Merchant, and other creature merchants. Setting is enabled by default.
• Locked behind Mercantile skill, 25 by default.
• If Inventory Extender is installed, a new Invest button will appear on the Barter UI. Otherwise, [Barter] is added as a dialogue topic.

Custom Barter Pricing (requires Inventory Extender)

• Bartering formula has been replaced with a custom formula taking player and merchant Personality, Mercantile skill, fatigue, disposition, and a little Luck
• Small rank bonus when bartering with NPCs of the same faction, appears as a tooltip when bartering
• Adjusted prices for damaged weapons and armor along with soul size in soul gems
• Penalty is applied when offering far less/more than the merchant's offer
• Mercantile skill xp is awarded depending on how much you beat the merchant's offer
• If "Trade with anyone" skill is unlocked, you'll get a worse deal

Linked by @​hyacinth2199 from #Make A Profit · Apr 13, 2026, 5:35 PM

[hot cypress]

Whoops that is long

[cunning python]

😘

Woah, wait. You are the creator of Sun's Dusk? Nice 😄

[hot cypress]

Yeah it's what we've been working on all day

[cunning python]

It might just be on my end, but a few things aren't working for me. I have Inventory Extender but not Sun's Dusk.

1. The prices all appear even when I am at Mercantile 5. I believe prices should be hidden until a certain level, right?

2. Contraband still leads to service refusal.

[hot cypress]

You'll want to reset your settings and then reload or use reloadlua in the console

[cunning python]

Also, I seem to need to reload lua if I wish for some changes to take effect. Like when I purposefully lower my Mercantile, the Invest option still remains unless I reload lua.

The two issues I mentioned persist with reload lua so I am not sure what now... hmm...

Might be an issue on my end?

[hot cypress]

Try doing what I said first, since I tested setting mercantile from the console extensively

[cunning python]

Hmm, interesting.

So the bugs persist, but item values are correctly listed as ??? in my inventory screen but not the barter screen.

Yeah, I tried with just Inventory Extender and Make A Profit but these couple of issues persist. Oh well, they aren't really affecting my gameplay so it is all well.

[hot cypress]

Yes, that's intentional and working as intended

Speaking to a merchant shows you how much your items are worth

[cunning python]

Ah, I see... I thought it would be hidden for all. Okay nice. Still no idea about the contraband though.

Oh... so some merchants rightly refuse contraband like normal. It is just that some traders still trade with you while you possess contraband; it is just that they can't be sold.

I see now.

😭

[hot cypress]

The contraband is a bit iffy, I want to add more to the mechanics but haven't decided the best way to go about it yet since there are a lot of cool mods that add dialogue and whatnot to contraband

[cunning python]

@hot cypress I am sure this is a simple question, but does the mod factor in only BASE numbers without fortification spells? Like you need 100 in base Mercantile for example, not one boosted by scrolls, etc., to be able to trade with everyone.

[hot cypress]

Correct, but I didn't test extensively with spells vs abilities vs if abilities are modifiers is installed or not

[rotund walrus]

I'm about to start testing, I assume this still works alongside ownlyme's mercentike fix correct?

Just want to make sure I'm testing properly

[hot cypress]

Yup :)

[rotund walrus]

Thank you my friend, so excited. Any load order recommendations? After extender, sun dusk, etc?

[hot cypress]

After inventory extender yeah, I'd recommend at the bottom of your load order

[rotund walrus]

Thank you

Really awesome so far

I do notice this slightl overlap with the offer button.

[hot cypress]

Oh no

Oh is that interface reimagined?

[cunning python]

You can change the interface dimensions using either mouse or the settings method. I got it to not overlap that way.

@hot cypress Psst. Does this make it so that you can't sell purchased items? I tried selling a sword I bought from Arille to Ra'Virr but it isn't working.

Maybe it is a quirk of Inventory Extender?

[visual gazelle]

Ra'Virr is a pawnbroker, right? they only buy damaged goods according to the changelog

this is looking so nice, fair dues. seems like you've been hard at work

[cunning python]

I need to read more. Sorry about that.

[rotund walrus]

Ohh I'll check right away and disable

[hot cypress]

No no you're fine, I just forgot that interface reimagined has a different way of doing buttons. There's a compatibility setting for IE with interface reimagined so I can check that out

[rotund walrus]

Ohh okay sounds good brother

[hot cypress]

Sorry I was super deep with those spells haha, I'll have this sorted out tomorrow

I'll also add an optional file with some GMSTs to increase prices of travel services and a few other things so that the service haggling feels more meaningful

[rotund walrus]

No need to apologize, I look forward to the update and GMSTs. Ty so much

[naive escarp]

Just out of curiosity, what existing mods does this conflict with or make redundant?

[hot cypress]

Better merchant skills at the very least I believe, I think it might make ownlyme’s mercantile fix obsolete but tried to avoid that

[naive escarp]

How does it play with FTRP and the contraband refusal mods?

[hot cypress]

That still needs some testing but you can turn the “hide contraband” feature off. It’s kinda spotty, it works for some merchant for me but not other ppl and I can’t figure out why

[naive escarp]

Oh weird

[naive escarp]

It works fine with For the right price though?

[wicked tulip]

I will be the guinea pig running BMS with MaP

I also today figured ownlyme's Restocking would pair really well with Muckmaster-Kjar

[hot cypress]

They’re probably compatible but your bug reports become invalid

[wicked tulip]

[rancid ore]

Hi, I've encountered a few issues. I don't know if other people have already encountered/reported them, so sorry if they have!

• Merchants can still detect skooma and moon sugar on my inventory like in vanilla (only Khajiit merchants don't, since they buy those in vanilla).
• The value hiding mechanic works on the inventory, but it doesn't work on the trading UI - I can still see items' values with low merchantile skill
• When the enchanter specialty prices are visible, filled soul gems don't show their actual value on the tooltip. Instead, the value shown is that of an unfilled soul gem. When buying/selling, though, their filled value is used, it's just the tooltip that's incorrect.

example

If tested it on both a heavily modded playlist and an installation with only Inventory Extender, Make a Profit and the official expansions, and encountered those issues in both cases

[hot cypress]

1. Yeah this is a known issue, a future update will have a better implementation of this but if it’s a problem you can disable this in the settings
2. That’s completely working as intended, since merchants have the knowledge to tell you how much your items and their items are worth :)
3. Do you have a mod changing the value of soul gems? There are quite a few around now that I think about it so it would be good for me to investigate

[rancid ore]

Regarding the soul gems, only Inventory Extender. I was playing with OpenMW's value rebalance setting on, but I've just tested with the setting off and the same thing happens

I've also tried with the IE setting on and off, but nothing changed

[hot cypress]

Gotcha, good to know. Yeah doing anything with filled soul gems can be dodgy but thanks for letting me know

[naive escarp]

How do you like this mod

I’m tempted to add it but I’m worried it’ll fuck something up lol

[hot cypress]

Think they should be okay, restocking is fine as least but I haven’t tried bulk order

I think they’re doing (somewhat) different things though

[naive escarp]

Does restocking work with Wares? And is the memory leak issue fixed?

[hot cypress]

1. Yes 2. No, that’s an openmw engine feature

[wicked tulip]

I rarely abuse restocking in vanilla, so it's hard to say

[hot cypress]

Kinda hard to abuse it with Sun’s dusk

[naive escarp]

Ah damn

[naive escarp]

It’s kind of tedious to abuse the system

[wicked tulip]

not really if you're shopping at restocking merchant

*buying his restocking items

[hot cypress]

Yeah that’s true

But time flies

[naive escarp]

Is the memory leak issue bad? Or is the mod still worth using despite that?

I was using it for awhile but got worried it would screw something up long term

[hot cypress]

I mean memory leak will happen regardless of whether you have mods installed or not

Some mods make it worse but I haven’t heard of those ones having problems

[wicked tulip]

memory leak?

[hot cypress]

But in general restocking is cursed and I avoided it as much as I could with this one

[naive escarp]

Okay wait

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/54952

It says the memory leak is fixed in 0.50

[naive escarp]

What makes it cursed?

[naive escarp]

I wonder if this would still cause save bloat though

[hot cypress]

Things like #8955

https://gitlab.com/OpenMW/openmw/-/issues/8955

It was fixed in 0.51 but things like that come up constantly

[naive escarp]

What the fuck lmao

[hot cypress]

Funny enough, pretty loot really helps with things like that

[naive escarp]

Accidentally creates quantum entangled items

[naive escarp]

How so

[old venture]

wait wait

which mod is cursed

[hot cypress]

You can see when things are added to your inventory that you otherwise wouldn’t know about

[naive escarp]

It’s not a mod it’s just how OpenMW handles restocking

[naive escarp]

Oh gotcha

[naive escarp]

Do you have any other mod recommendations to kind of mitigate the restocking bugs lmao

[hot cypress]

I tried to avoid it at all costs with this mod because inventories are scary but had to do it for investing

[hot cypress]

Not that I can think of, I don’t even use ownlyme’s tbf haha

[naive escarp]

Shout out to Ralts for tackling that

[naive escarp]

Im not either although the temptation is there lmao

[hot cypress]

The more I learn about openmw lua the less I understand how quickloot works

[naive escarp]

Ilikegothmommys has their own restocking mod as well but that also leads to save bloat

[naive escarp]

Quickloot is actual wizardry

It’s kind of insane that it works as well as it does

[hot cypress]

I just learned about the fresh loot interop the other day haha

Well we copied his code in quickloot for Insight

[naive escarp]

It feels like the type of mod where a beta version would get released that technically works but isn’t playable and then it doesn’t become workable for another like 2-3 OpenMW updates

[naive escarp]

What’s the interop?

Idk if that makes sense but it feels like a mod that shouldn’t be as functional as it is in OpenMW yet but it is lmao

[hot cypress]

Fresh loot only converts loot when you open the container, but quickloot doesn’t open the container

[naive escarp]

Oh interesting

[hot cypress]

Insight also only works when you open the container, but quickloot doesn’t open the container

[visual gazelle]

wel it kinda was last year, but these days it runs like warm butter

[hot cypress]

So Insight has built in interop with quickloot

[visual gazelle]

thats dope

[naive escarp]

Yeah exactly. It’s insane that it works as well as it does

Especially with other mods

[visual gazelle]

the litte ray that could

[wicked tulip]

(if other mods are incompatible, they have to make their own compat pathes, actually)

(cursed tombs says henlo)

[hot cypress]

Fortunately ownlyme has a billion events in that mod

He added the one for Sun’s dusk too

[naive escarp]

Makes it even more insane that there seems to be barely any performance impact from that mod

[hot cypress]

Despite having an onFrame render raycast

[naive escarp]

Aren’t raycasts and onframe handlers like two of the most performance intensive things in OpenMW Lua?

[hot cypress]

Yup

[wicked tulip]

poor code quality is the third

[naive escarp]

Well yeah

[hot cypress]

A single regular raycast costs like nothing but you also can’t get a lot of information from a regular raycast

[wicked tulip]

shared raycast release when?

[hot cypress]

It’s already in all our mods xD pick whichever one you want, they’re all the same

But it’s only for activation distance

The raycast for blink is really good

I’ll see if he wants to open that up bc you’d get some use out of that

[naive escarp]

Speaking of raycasts, I’ve been tempted to try my hand at re-doing the chalk mod so that you have to equip the chalk and then use it and it would draw on whatever surface you’re looking at rather than selecting it from a menu.

I’m assuming I’d need to use raycasts for that

[hot cypress]

You’d want the onFrame render raycast, yes

[wicked tulip]

but what would be the chalk itself? vfx or decal imitation? 🧐

[naive escarp]

Fuck

[naive escarp]

I don’t actually know how it works in the original mod tbh

[hot cypress]

It’s a shared library, so it’s the same one used by Sun’s dusk, quickloot, etc

[wicked tulip]

it's not as horrible with early returns

[naive escarp]

I mostly wanted it to be compatible with Inventory Extender which made me realize I don’t really like how the chalk is implemented in the original mod

I like the functionality and the immersion but dropping the chalk, opening a menu, and manually positioning the chalk drawing is a bit annoying

[hot cypress]

Inventory extender has an interface for that, but it also has space for a few buttons

There’s even an empty wrench button iirc

[naive escarp]

For what?

[hot cypress]

For people to add stuff onto or have fun with

Half of this mod’s code is buttons for that mod

[naive escarp]

Oh interesting

[naive escarp]

Fair enough

Once I have more free time I might fuck around with it. Like I said, I mostly just want it to be compatible with inventory extender.

I’d also like it if there was a way to set a specific decal so you don’t have to open the menu every time you want to draw something if you’re mostly just writing Xs on doors you need to check. Idk how I’d do that though. I could have it in the scripts menu but I’d rather it be in game somehow

But that’s a discussion for a different group

[visual gazelle]

that would be cool. this is something i've wanted to do as well but with grafiti

[naive escarp]

That would also be cool. Maybe combine both into one mod

[visual gazelle]

yeah it wouldnt be much extra if the chalk was working that way

[wicked tulip]

will the OpenChalk become a replacement for JoP?

[naive escarp]

Kinda but also not really lol

I was just thinking it would work similar to the original mod but you’d have to equip the chalk instead of dropping it

[hot cypress]

If we get the APIs needed for that before permanent corpses or removing spells I’m going to riot

[naive escarp]

Then you could just look at a surface and hit the “attack” key and it would draw on whatever surface you’re looking at

But otherwise it would be essentially the same. You could write the presets or type your own message. Or write the 6th house chalk

[naive escarp]

How does JoP even work

[wicked tulip]

a fancy type of screenshots

[hot cypress]

Idfk where to even begin

I think we’d get decals first

[hot cypress]

Rendered as a generated texture onto a mesh

[wicked tulip]

with layering, opacity, filters and yada yada yada

[naive escarp]

That would allow for Elemental Effects to be possible in OpenMw right?

[hot cypress]

That would be decals

[naive escarp]

Gotcha

[hot cypress]

JOP is that on steroids

[naive escarp]

Yeah I don’t even want to think about how that’s possible

I feel like if someone eventually makes JoP for OpenMW it’ll be either you and ownlyme or Ralts lmao

[hot cypress]

Yeah it’s not going to happen in this engine anytime soon

[naive escarp]

Yeah def not

As cool as that mod is, I’m surprised it’s one of the main things that people list as keeping them on MGEXE

[visual gazelle]

they've got to hold onto something

[naive escarp]

That and Ashfall were the two mods I’d see people say kept them on MGEXE

[hot cypress]

You could literally replace every UI with lua including the map and it would still be easier than doing the most basic thing that JOP does

[naive escarp]

And sometimes Merlord’s fishing mod which like, valid

[visual gazelle]

it is crazy impressive and immersive by the look of it

[naive escarp]

I mean it feels like we’re most of the way there lmao

[hot cypress]

Yeah ownlyme lost his shit when he saw a video of it haha

He’s like “yeah I can’t do that, not happening”

He did stuff like that in cyberpunk

[naive escarp]

It’s kind of crazy what MGEXE lets you do

I can’t even begin to imagine what would go into developing that

[summer coral]

I'd take fishing over painting any day

[hot cypress]

Fishing is super doable and there’s even a cool mod that has an API for it

Not that I have any documentation written for it

[naive escarp]

I think both dubious and I have separately talked about possibly taking a stab at it lmao

I’ve just been hella busy with work

[hot cypress]

Maybe I’ll have something written before modathon 🧐 but tbh the hardest part of the fishing mod will be doing stuff with the assets

[naive escarp]

That makes sense

[hot cypress]

Getting them how to spawn in water, move around, ripples, things like that

You can fake some of those things ofc that’s just where you’d get hung up

[dire zephyr]

Getting the line to behave properly

[hot cypress]

Not to mention the UI + animation sync that I’m sure people would want, but that’s bardcraft territory

[naive escarp]

“Stardew Style Fishing”

[hot cypress]

Yeah I simply do not care about fish that much

But some people really like it

[naive escarp]

I love a good fishing mini game personally

Especially in combination with a survival/camping mod

Which is funny because I hate fishing irl

[visual gazelle]

Oblivion Style Lockpicking would actually make a pretty good fishing mini game. the tension bar feels alot like stardew valley

[naive escarp]

That’s exactly what I was thinking

[visual gazelle]

yeah, then just slap down some waterfall splash nifs and your done

[naive escarp]

There ya go lmao

[summer coral]

I really like stardew fishing after one zillion hours playing stardew

[wicked tulip]

I don't like stardew after getting 100% achievements in it

[wicked tulip]

true

[visual gazelle]

shockingly accurate review

[naive escarp]

Would it be possible to make it so the value of items is hidden in quickloot if your mercantile is under a certain level?

[hot cypress]

Yeah, he was going to add support for that haha

[rancid ore]

Is it possible to hide the value in the tooltip that appears outside of inventory (like when you look at an item dropped on floor)? I don't know if there is any way to change that tooltip, currently

[hot cypress]

Not yet, at least not until someone replaces the world tooltip

[wicked tulip]

🤔

[hot cypress]

Don’t think I’ve seen that one before Does the basket belong to a merchant ?

[wicked tulip]

it should not, it's unowned

[hot cypress]

Interesting

Will investigate there will be some new updates to inventory extender that will make it easier for me to do funny things with the columns that don’t involve me hacking Ralts’ mod to pieces

[hot cypress]

I just realised, why no quickloot

[wicked tulip]

Because I disabled the storing feature in it

[hot cypress]

Gotcha

[wicked tulip]

I'm too used to just looting part being there

[hot cypress]

I just realised that the Pocket spell might have the same problem 🧐

Btw if any of yall get some fun finds with Insight feel free to share screenshots

[wicked tulip]

is it even available in Cyrodiil?

[hot cypress]

It is with the lua trtomes console command

Otherwise maybe at the Mages Guild

NPCs with the spell creation service likely have most of the new spells but I’m not sure, I haven’t poked around in the esp much

[wicked tulip]

nah, that's not interesting

[lethal nymph]

Will Inventory Extender still be optional on the final release hyacinth? Or you don't know yet?

[wicked tulip]

it is already optional

technically

[lethal nymph]

Yeah, I saw only some features require it

[wicked tulip]

it's just the bulk of the features depend on it

[lethal nymph]

I think I'll still take a plunge

It's an amazing mod, but damn it looks so modern, almost Skyrimized xD I'll have to get used to it

[wicked tulip]

there is a vanilla-like tiled layout too

[lethal nymph]

That being said, I wonder why no one's done anything like that in MWSE, seems like it would be popular xD

[lethal nymph]

Oh yeah, I've tried that one, it's a lot like what we're used to!

What I really like is that you can press a button to equip an item, I have a mod that does that for MWSE

So I think I'll still use IE even if it becomes a hard requirement)

[wicked tulip]

1. they already have all the API for altering the UI they want while we have only the nuclear option of completely replacing the UI using mods
2. it's a titanic amount of work lmao

[lethal nymph]

I can only imagine

[wicked tulip]

Are pawnbrokers supposed to also not sell non-damaged gear?

[hot cypress]

Correct, although tbh they should probably have more damaged gear

[hot cypress]

We're live https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58836

[summer coral]

Congratulations 🎊

[hot cypress]

Also added gamepad support to the invest UI

[rancid ore]

Perfect for week 1's theme

[wild anvil]

Reading the feature list and it’s sublime how well this and Fair Trade compliment each other

[rotund walrus]

Yes it does, using both at the moment and haven't ran into any issues. Thank you

[sullen wind]

just saw this, really interesting. Can it be run without sun's dusk and still work fine (Without the regional pricing, of course)

[rancid ore]

Yes, as far as I remember, Sun's Dusk is only used for the regional pricing feature

Works just fine without it

[hot cypress]

Yeah it works perfectly fine, quite literally just laziness on my end :’) there’ll be an update that has regional pricing without the sun’s dusk dependency

[visual gazelle]

Sun's dusk supremacy

[sullen wind]

Roger that!

[rancid ore]

I noticed the contraband features are present on the Nexus release, but merchants can still scan the player's inventory and refuse to trade when the player has moon sugar or skooma, so I've made a small plugin to stop them from doing that. I've uploaded it to my mini-mods page in the Service Refusal Block file.
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58246

[hot cypress]

Yeah I have the setting disabled by default since there were a few things I couldn’t figure out and I might need something from ralts for it, but in general I have mixed feelings about the contraband mechanics but left something in place still

[rancid ore]

I see. I like the contraband mechanics, they just don't make a lot of sense with the vanilla service refusal.

In case you keep working on them, though, you could also add Flashgrit from TD to the contraband list

(I only found out about its' existence by looking at the Service Refusal dialogue lines from TD )

[sacred widget]

this mod is cool

[lethal nymph]

I support the addition of this feature in the future if you feel like it hyacinth, and if it's possible It'd be great to have an option to have merchant inventories refresh/reset after a while

[thorn tulip]

Is "Make A Profit" compatible with the mod "For The Right Price"

[old venture]

i saw a mod page recommending a bunch of merchant mods that itself was a merchant mod

and they included make a profit for the right price and a couple others

i think it's the one that got released recently so probably

[rancid ore]

Commercium - Fair Trade?

[old venture]

probably

[rancid ore]

The creator even commented here how well they complement each other earlier today

[remote plank]

Hopefully its compatible with Better Merchant Skills. Ill give it a go

[hot cypress]

Yeah I need to add a few from TD too like velk products

[hot cypress]

thanks :)

[hot cypress]

There’s already a restocking mod, not sure how much more I want to mess with merchant’s inventories since I really try to avoid it when I can

[hot cypress]

Probably, I haven’t tested or played with that mod so I’m not sure how they play together but they seem to be up the same alley

[hot cypress]

Should be though your prices might get wonky

[lethal nymph]

I saw you link it earlier, it's not what I meant. That mod handles already restocking goods, but the entire inventory. There's also one that removes player-sold items, but that's also not quite the same

But I understand, I hope someone makes a complete restock compatible with Make a Profit in the future, I'll just use sethealth 0/resurrect till then

[hot cypress]

Update for the newest version of Inventory Extender, finally fixed/improved contraband, better gamepad support

[rotund walrus]

Ty!!!

Is there anything specifically you'd like tested with contraband?

[hot cypress]

The setting is still disabled by default but just checking at different merchants

[rotund walrus]

I will ty

[rancid ore]

What were the changes made to contraband?

[hot cypress]

If you have contraband in your inventory when trading with a law abiding merchant, it’ll be hidden from your inventory

[lethal nymph]

I always found it weird that they can just x-ray me with their eyes and find moon sugar in my back pocket. Do you see the contents of my stomach as well Mr Arrille?

[hot cypress]

Yeah basically haha

[wild anvil]

Finally, my shitty low effort contraband no more will come out of my load order

[hot cypress]

At least this is the goal, it’s trickier to implement

[lethal nymph]

On the other hand I've had some hilarious cases where merchants reported me when I tried to sell dwemer shit to them with Buying Game, but in the long run it was a little tedious

A bounty in every second merchant interaction

[hot cypress]

Yeah I’m kinda iffy on contraband still. On one hand, I like all the flavour mods that add dialogue and expand on it for lore reasons. On the other hand, I want it to make sense and not be tedious xd

[rancid ore]

Regarding contraband, it's not working properly with law-abiding Khajiit merchants (they are the ones who accept buying moon sugar in vanilla). Even with the setting turned on, they can still trade skooman, moon sugar, ebony, dwemer items, etc. In the previous version, this wasn't the case and they wouldn't trade contraband

Non khajiit merchants (at least Arrille, I only tested with him) can still scan skooma and moon sugar and refuse to trade when I have them in my inventory. If I use my plugin to block the service refusal, they won't buy contraband, though, including dwemer items and other contraband categories

Members of the thieves guild seem to be able to trade contraband, but they'll still refuse to trade when I have moon sugar/skooma on my inventory, unless I activate my plugin

[rancid ore]

I think your solution of preventing the player to trade them makes a sense. Maybe you could make a pop-up message telling the player they can't trade the contraband item when they try to do so, to make the mechanic more clear for players. Expanded dialogue lines could be more interesting, but I think they'd get tedious pretty fast. The vanilla service refusal is terrible game design, imo

[spare bough]

the invest button doesn't work and i get this

[spare bough]

nevermind, apparently it was a bug in inventory extender

[hot cypress]

• Fixed investments not getting reapplied under certain conditions
• Fixed an error with investment dialogue without IE,
• Fixed a bug that always applied 500g when trading with anyone for investing if IE is not installed
• Fixed being able to invest into non-merchant npcs if IE is not installed or mercantile is too low
• Probably not backwards compatible with versions of IE older than today xd

[spare bough]

bug if you have "compact category filter" enabled in inventory extender

[hot cypress]

I can't reproduce this but I'm tired asf and need to sleep haha, I think it's coming from the Hide unused categories setting in this mod but the latest version of inventory extender already has that built in. Disabling that setting might help but it seems my next update fixes this problem

You can try out the newest version in the meantime until I investigate more tomorrow

[spare bough]

seems to be fixed

[wicked tulip]

I was worried for a second that I wouldn't know a price of money

[mint knot]

hello, the invest button doesn't appear on the trade window (using inventory extender). Is it because my merchantile is low?

[hot cypress]

Probably yes, the default is 25 I believe

[visual gazelle]

Money laundering at last

[runic current]

Is the haggling formula the same? It feels much, much easier to get a good deal

[hot cypress]

Are you asking if this mod has the same haggling formula as vanilla?

[runic current]

Yeah

With fairly low mercantile ( ~20-30 ) I can get 10-20% discounts without much fuss

[hot cypress]

Yeah nah this is not the vanilla haggling formula haha, that's the point of this mod xd But I plan on adding difficulty settings, right now this formula is similar to the default formula in MWSE's Buying Game but I'll be tweaking it more

[lethal nymph]

LAWD this is epic! You offer a resolution to that giant fight people had in one of the channels here or in MMC about how Nalcarya shouldn't flag every diamond as stolen

Hyacinth the Deliverer

Or should I say hyacinth and ownlyme ^^

Since you work on this together)

[hot cypress]

Ngl it’s what motivated me to try this out haha

Also this was me, ownlyme was asleep and woke up to that surprise xD

But yes without ownlyme I wouldn’t have been able to do this to begin with

[lethal nymph]

I think tweaking or a slider would be epic eventually, there was one problem I had with Buying Game, and it was BRUTAL regional pricing mechanics, even at only 10 percent. My characters were constantly poor without exploiting in the first few levels, and by "poor" I mean never having more than 200 gold in the inventory

A daedra heart shouldn't cost 800 gold

I do like the defaults you have atm hyacinth, but I'm looking forward to seeing what else you choose to do with the mod

[hot cypress]

Yeah I’ll add a slider at some point, was testing it out with another mod first before adding it to this one since this mod is much more experimental.
And yeah that’s kinda wild 0.o but interesting because most of the formulas are similar between the two mods

[lethal nymph]

I also really enjoy running Make a Profit with Commercium, they add quite a bit of flavour to the trading gameplay together

[undone atlas]

well that was an... interesting bug. invested in an NPC, then suddenly my luck was 682. updated to see if that'd fix things, but the invest button is now gone so i couldn't tell you one way or another. it was inconsistent about appearing to begin with, though, so I have no idea what i screwed up

[hot cypress]

Do you have Better merchant skills?

[undone atlas]

I do

is there a known incompatibility?

[hot cypress]

That would be why then

I'm not sure since I don't use better merchant skills but I would not be surprised

[undone atlas]

let me disable and reload and try again

[undone atlas]

can now confirm it is an insane interaction with BMS. disabled, invested, zero issues. what a weird thing to pop up dozens of hours in

[hot cypress]

Sounds about right

[wicked tulip]

Seems like "Haggle" mechanic doesn't respect training limits set by NCG/SE. I don't pay for training, training doesn't occur, but I still roll for haggle and sometimes get money out of the thin air

[hot cypress]

Bleh

[wicked tulip]

:d

[hot cypress]

Sigh

[hot cypress]

Is this like on UI mode change or something?

Idfk how that mod does training

[wicked tulip]

Not sure how it happens without MaP, but here I

1. Pressed on a skill
2. UI mode changed, screen turned black (time likely advanced too, but I haven't checked it)
3. I got two messages - one from NCG (can't train) and one from MaP (haggle)

[hot cypress]

Guess I can listen for the skill up event lmfao didn't think it was possible to train without leveling a skill

[wicked tulip]

[hot cypress]

Todo

• add skillup event to training
• aliases for TD/OAAB classes
• dialogue tree for extra actions
• hardcode NPCs for fencing
• improve database
• Cyrodiil and Skyrim databases

[wild anvil]

I’ve barely tested as it’s only popped up when testing my latest WIP, but encountered auto-haggling when travelling. Is that expected behaviour or is it a conflict with Commericum?

[lethal nymph]

Buying any service, including travel, casts a dice, and the haggle happens automatically. I think that's the way it was written in the description, so it's intended behavior unless I misunderstood your question

I really like your mods btw, kildozery, I'm using Commercium in combination with Make a Profit myself

[wicked tulip]

Same

[rotund walrus]

Yeah I find they pair very well together

[ebon grove]

it works well with restocking together too, and as long as we dont have an overhauled price formula (probably soon) i'd also recommend the mercantile fix

[lethal nymph]

Oh yeah, I threw Restocking into the mix too, awesome mod

[wild anvil]

Request - move Invest to always be left of cancel.

[wicked tulip]

yes.

[hot cypress]

There’s an option to remove the button

But yeah the button will be getting a rework

[wild anvil]

Awesome thanks

[pastel sedge]

Will make a profit still work even without sun's dusk? Will the regional pricing functionality just be missing?

[hot cypress]

Yeah, although if you download one of the recent versions in this channel you won’t need Sun’s dusk

[pastel sedge]

oh wow, did not see that!

I really want to try sun's dusk as well but I am modding off of total overhaul which uses NCG and others that are not compatible.

[hot cypress]

They’re not hard incompatible, NCG/SE alter stats in a way that can cause dmg to attributes/skills over time which people blame on Sun’s Dusk. I got tired of bug reports so I just say they’re not compatible in the mid description but plenty of people play with both

[lethal nymph]

I used MULE on MWSE, and kinda automatically gravitated to NCG before installing Sun's Dusk, but I have to say I prefer Improved Vanilla Leveling, so I'm glad the incompatibility notice made me switch

[graceful halo]

Don't know if you've seen it, but Mort ported MULE to OpenMW.

[lethal nymph]

Yeah awesome news! I have to say, atm I prefer a bit more of an active approach to leveling, so I use Improved Vanilla Leveling. Will definitely try MULE out in one of my future OpenMW playthroughs though

[summer coral]

I’m trying mule next time since it’s nice and simple. The oblivion remaster leveling mod looks nice as well.

[rancid ore]

Has anyone tried Potential Character Progression? I think I'll try that one on my next playthrough

[graceful halo]

I have, and I like it. It's nice and simple.

[lethal nymph]

Just noticed I'm missing the gift topic on all NPCs, and have Invest on everyone. What might be the reason for that?

Here are my stats

[lethal nymph]

Also noticed that Investment always appears in dialogue options on all NPCs no matter if the features are enabled in the scripts menu or not. At the same time, the invest button in barter window seems to be missing. I have IE version from May, 6th

[hot cypress]

Yeah, that's an engine feature. You can't remove dialogue topics with lua so if you previously enabled the dialogue topic for [Invest] but decided to remvoe it, you'll still have the topic it just won't work. I have a workaround/solution to this but it'll be a few days before I can get back to it (working on crafting framework stuff rn)

[lethal nymph]

No worries, thank you for your time and your work! It's good to know that it's just an engine feature ^^

[mint breach]

Oh noooo If only I had known 😭😭 I forbid myself to play with both because I thought they would do funky things

Sorry you had to take the blame for ncg mechanics tho

[hot cypress]

I think it might be fixed now or the next update will fix that but yeah that’s why I say they’re not compatible

[hot cypress]

What you can expect for the next update

The dialogue topics will be reworked so that there won't be 3 anymore too

[vagrant mason]

Is the "fencing" actually cleaning the record of the stolen items? Like, what guards take from your inventory when they catch you doing crime?

[wild anvil]

lmao I thought you were about to gift him your pants to get a better price

[rotund walrus]

Looks awesome

[tropic stratus]

Is there any glaring incompatibilities of the current Make A Profit mod when it comes to other economy mods (Like Commercium and Better Merchant Skills and such)

[wild anvil]

Yup, for Commercium and MaP, Hyacinth and I made sure they worked together (happily they were basically compatible out of the box)

[undone atlas]

BMS has a severe bug with investing. Was giving me 600+ luck when I did it, in the middle of the game, at random

stopped when BMS was disabled, so

[tropic stratus]

Oh damn

That's good to know

[hot cypress]

Probably

[round current]

Same issue as with Inventory Extender previously whereby buying and selling thrown items or arrows no longer has a value. Removing Make A Profit specifically fixes the issue

Seems to be some sort of incompatability with Inventory Extender as removing that also seems to fix the issue. Fucked if I know where to report this, then

[sage gyro]

yeah, I was unable to sell my daedric throwing darts. Thought the vendors deemed it inappropriate

[rancid ore]

Merchants will only buy and sell fletchery for 0 gold when Make a Profit is enabled

[rancid ore]

I think I'm using this version

[strong plaza]

Glad to see this being reported! I assume we are all running into this issue.

[plain magnet]

@hot cypress this mod, unfortunately, breaks some tweaks I've made for Inventory Extender - to implement custom currencies it replaces update function of the gold amount with new one that does not have my tweaks (thousand separators, optional)

can I ask you to add 2 lines of code to make it compatible with my tweaks? Or at least can I distribute modified MAP_p.lua file from your mod?

[ebon grove]

please dont distribute alternative versions of files from our mods because it will make updating impossible for us

you can send over what you have and we can try to figure out a compromize

[ebon grove]

thx added it to our todo list

[pale jackal]

"Invest" button seems to appear only if "Interface Reimagined Support" is turned off in Inventory Externder

[wicked tulip]

Based

[hot cypress]

It should appear for Interface Reimagined 0.o but if anything there is the dialogue option

[plain magnet]

I play with interface reimagined on and I have invest button

[rancid ore]

Just kidding, I think it could work similarly to contraband items

[vagrant mason]

I'm on the fence (ahah) about this. I like the idea of a select few non TG characters being able to provide the service, in addition to TG merchants in general (kinda like there are very few ways to clear one's bounty outside of TG - like the barrister guy in Old Ebonheart), but I guess fencing would require some form of network and it would make sense that fences would be brought (willingly or not) under the TG or CT.

Will there be a way for modders to add NPCs to the list of fences? Like, if someone wants to make a quest about a guy stuggling to stay independent, for example. Or for adding support for TR's new criminal syndicate, or mods that make CT joinable?

[rancid ore]

I think maybe it would be interesting if only valuable stolen items had restricted fencing. Most merchants wouldn't find suspicious a rando selling a couple empty bottles, but it would seem very fishy if they were trying to sell a limeware platter while also wearing rags

[hot cypress]

MWSE has a mod which lets any pawnbroker be a fence but I feel like that’s a bit too easy haha

[vagrant mason]

yeah, every pawnbrokers feels like too much

[hot cypress]

I could add a global variable for it I guess but just making their class/faction match the whitelist would be good enough

[vagrant mason]

Let me guess: creating new classes isn't currently possible? Such as "fence"?

[hot cypress]

You’ve been able to create new classes since 2002

Or whenever the CS was shipped

[vagrant mason]

😅

Then I guess I would restrict it to merchants of criminal factions : TG, CT and whatever the new TR syndicate was called, as well as class "fence" so people can add non-faction fences as needed.

would a disposition/faction membership be possible to restrict the service? Like, a merchant requires some minimum disposition to trade, but the same merchant would require higher disposition to fence?

(or require that you are a member of their faction)

[hot cypress]

Sure, there are already mods for that

https://www.nexusmods.com/games/morrowind/mods?keyword=Service+refusal&sort=endorsements this is what you’re looking for

Oh, you’re talking specifically about fencing

[vagrant mason]

yes

[hot cypress]

Yeah it’s possible to put restrictions on that but I can’t think of meaningful ways to do that other than writing dialogue for it which is better left to modders who enjoy that I have the bare minimum dialogue required, and the dialogue topic isn’t even required to fence

[vagrant mason]

Would make sense that every merchant from a criminal faction could fence (they have access to the needed network), but only to faction members or people they trust (higher disposition than regular trading)

[hot cypress]

I can see it going either way. Some people don’t like service refusal because it’s tedious, some people like it because it’s more immersive. Personally I like it but in a mod description that’s already significantly long it’ll get lost in the noise

But there’s a dialogue topic/choice for fencing and I’ll add global variables

[vagrant mason]

I just remembered that there are Cammona Tong traders out there, who hate my foreigner guts but are still willing to trade because gold has no odour. Would feel weird to have them provide me such a service too easily

[hot cypress]

There are mods which let you join the Cammona Tong

[vagrant mason]

yeah, hence the faction membership suggestion as well.

Anyway, those were just my thoughts on the question. I went for "all TG merchants" in the poll.

[hot cypress]

Going to change prices/the economy when hitting certain beats in questlines, any recommendations other than for the main quest?

[wicked tulip]

Kwama eggs after you get your Hlaalu stronghold egg mine

[hot cypress]

Should they be free?

[wicked tulip]

[rancid ore]

Maybe ebony prices get affected if Raven Rock achieves success

Or at least make them an export in/near Solstheim?

[wicked tulip]

On a more serious note, check out Hlaalu and EEC quests

[rancid ore]

Protective gear from ash storms get more expensive in Mournhold after activating the weather machine

[hot cypress]

If protective gear was possible to detect in openmw I'd consider it

[rancid ore]

Chitin and boiled netch leather helmets are what came to mind

[hot cypress]

Yeah, there are a lot more though

Any closed helm is considered protective gear and there are 100-200 between vanilla and TD

[rancid ore]

You might wanna check the quests involving the Caldera Mine too
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Caldera_Mine

[plain magnet]

@hot cypress there's a pricing issue for arrows and thrown weapons - all of them have 0 gold cost according to Make a profit

caused by faulty logic in condition affecting pricing formula

itemData.condition is nil for those items and code defaukts it to 0 - it should not do that, in case of nil it should ignore the adjuctment

I'd suggest changing that code to something like this:

        local maxCondition = itemRecord.health
        if condition and maxCondition and maxCondition > 0 then
            x = basePrice * (condition / maxCondition)
        else
            x = basePrice
        end```