Sun's Dusk: Needs & Survival

[grand spire]

Oh lol

Fair

[indigo anchor]

Hey @warm saddle , are there still known issues with some of my mods?

[sharp basalt]

#1427867749870473287 message

[astral mauve]

coolshadynz

So I just had an instance where my Luck went down to 0 for no reason after travelling via Silt Strider. I'm wondering if this is just shenanigans or a load order issue

Linked by @​coolshadynz from #Sun's Dusk: Needs & Survival · Feb 23, 2026, 3:27 AM

[sharp basalt]

In addition, I feel I couldn't reproduce it cleanly enough to mention but I had an instance where I was in a shop about to make some deals and Abilities are Modifiers went nuts 3 or 4 times telling me my luck was suddenly ~-500

[rotund epoch]

this doesn't sound like a bug btw. It's how BMS works under the hood. Everything is (or should be) restored to normal after bartering/dialogue exit.

[sharp basalt]

I'm aware, but it wouldn't be restored after the fact. Perhaps an incompatability with Sun's Dusk also buffing Luck, hence why I mentioned it

[rotund epoch]

You got a permament Luck "debuff" after bartering? Now that's weird. I've been playing with SD and BMS for sth like... 600-800 hours now? Never had such a bug

[tepid sedge]

maybe you just didnt notice [WIP]

[warm saddle]

Just what people have reported, that stats have a negative modifier and are drained over time despite having no drain spell effect, stats being wonky after training (especially luck), idk what else but it's been ongoing in the momw channel and it's mentioned in troubleshooting every now and then
That mod ^ shows changes to attributes and skills onFrame which might be useful

[indigo anchor]

Yes BMS alters some player and merchant's stats to reach the expected trading difficulty. It's intentional, but fi you have a mod that shows stat changes, it will be weird to notice such changes

[indigo anchor]

Stats are supposed to be restored after the dialogue, and stats changes (e.g. modifiers from your mod) are supposed to be acknowledged by BMS

It would help to have a proper reproduction scenario

[warm saddle]

Mass training seems to cause the most problems but people have been getting these in several different ways

My guess is that decay/growth formulas don't play nice with calendar/time globals being directly written to which causes the openmw calendar to recalculate itself, and the calendar is probably not being reconciled at midnight which is most apparent during training since it is the most time consuming, but that's just a guess and ppl have reported different instances of having positive/negative modifiers that don't seem to add up

[indigo anchor]

Decay/growth do not alter stats modifiers

Only BMS does that, and we could have things like race conditions between mods adding/restoring modifiers

[warm saddle]

Oh I don't do anything with abilities and the travel UI mode, there might be a race condition with resting and waking but that seems to be independent of load order

Also keep in mind that everything I've said happens regardless of whether this mod is installed or not

[indigo anchor]

Yeah but maybe your mod adds debuffs after training because the player needs to eat/drink/sleep...?

[warm saddle]

Nothing that would cause -42 luck

[indigo anchor]

Ah. Nobody reported nothing to my mod threads or in Nexus comments 😅

[indigo anchor]

Not your mod alone. But if your mod alters luck, there might be some wrong interactions with BMS also altering luck while trying to integrate external changes to luck

[warm saddle]

People see red stats and don't know where it comes from and usually post in troubleshooting

[indigo anchor]

I suspect a mod conflict because people like Cybvep or me never got such issues

[warm saddle]

Not sure since it's not caused by this mod but the pretty stats mod might help troubleshoot

[sharp basalt]

Is this a replacement for AAM or complimentary?

[warm saddle]

Complimentary, doesn’t require AAM or anything

[sharp basalt]

Oh! I see what it does. Neat!

[tepid sedge]

updated. now excludes modifiers from active spells by default

[rough salmon]

Another quest vessel. Do you think it should be fillable or not? What's the policy on it?

Technically emptying it doesn't break the quest, but it still seems not 100% foolproof

[warm saddle]

Yeah someone else mentioned a bowl as well on nexus, I can grab a few of them and ones that people report obviously but like … obviously don’t want to break quests (even though it’s temporary) but then it’s like, you know, you have a perfectly good cup that has no use

[rough salmon]

I feel like Fasting should have its own icon (same as other habits) or at least replace the Hunger Icon with something else 🤔

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’s supposed to I just haven’t gotten around to it yet

[rough salmon]

Good stuff btw. Interesting to see how frequently my stats actually change

(I'm actually surprised how frequent it has gotten)

In a good way!

In a good way!

[warm saddle]

Not for debugging

Although yeah this helps pinpoint what’s causing it

[tawny briar]

Added Stat Menu and Crafting Framework at your suggestion Hyacinth

You have polluted my modlist further

[warm saddle]

Polluting by adding basic functions xd

[sour leaf]

Sun's Dusk goes well with CF btw

[tawny briar]

lol just teasing

It's just funny that my modlist keeps growing

such is the nature of modding...

[tawny briar]

Yeah, I see that now. I kind of overlooked it before

Definitely see the utility now

[sour leaf]

One thing I love from mods is forcing me to engage with things in the game that I normally wouldn't.

Crafting Framework and SD make various misc items useful.
SD makes you engage with food items, wells, taverns, bottles, cups, etc.
I like house mods that don't come pre-decorated so I'm forced to buy clutter items like plates and candles and stuff

That sort of thing

After doing a full New Vegas playthrough with survival mode and mods to enhance it, I don't think I can ever go back lol

[tawny briar]

Absolutely. Does wonders for the immersion too.

[sour leaf]

NV survival mode isnt even that intense but just having to think about eating, sleeping, and hydration outside of just needing to heal made the game a lot more engaging and immersive

[tawny briar]

One issue I had in my first playthrough a few years ago was that, around the mid-game, the world began to feel very static. Because I was mostly unkillable, could fly everywhere, do anything--which was fun itself, but also ungrounded the world and meant most of it was essentially set dressing.

Mods like Sun's Dusk ameliorate that greatly

Then just difficulty and progression mods (Mym's suite) of course

[sour leaf]

I havent had a chance to do a full playthrough with SD yet because I'm stupid and can't stop fucking with my modlist but just from past experiences, survival mods tend to keep the gameplay from getting too static.

No matter how powerful you get, you need to eat and sleep

[tawny briar]

exactly

Doing Red Mountain in mostly vanilla was limp-dicked lmao

[sour leaf]

SD also has roleplay choices like fasting and the green pact which are entirely optional

[tawny briar]

So powerful most enemies couldn't do anything, and it barely felt like an active volcano

I haven't gotten there, but with SD, shit's scary

[sour leaf]

Oh yeah

[tawny briar]

and something like Beware the Sixth House

[glossy anchor]

Just don't resize stats menu too aggressively :P

[sour leaf]

I feel like I glaze this mod too much in here but legitimately survival mods are a must for Bethesda games for me and SD is one of the best I've seen

[tawny briar]

...what will happen if I do

[tawny briar]

The only one I don't bother with is Oblivion, because I can barely take that game seriously tbh lol

[sour leaf]

Lmao same

[glossy anchor]

https://discordapp.com/channels/260439894298460160/1432457734619664495/1476051097557799102

[astral mauve]

.arrean

Also, disregarding the above, as I've seem to have figured it out.

Anyone got any ideas? First thought I've screwed something up, but this is now with only Stats Window enabled on a fresh character, and just timehud also in the modlist . Lua ops got into tens of millions on api.lua on resizing the stats window, with not much effort at all

Attachment(s)

image.png
2026-02-24_23-59-14.mp4

Linked by @​.arrean from #Stats Window Extender · Feb 25, 2026, 3:00 AM

[sour leaf]

That's honestly the only bethesda game that I play with a light modlist

[tawny briar]

lmao I see

[sour leaf]

It's not even out of nostalgia or anything. Like you said, I just don't really take that game seriously

[glossy anchor]

Needs gentle touch

[tawny briar]

Same here. I barely feel like I can RP

[tawny briar]

So is the issue resizing too quickly, or resizing at all?

is it literally just you have to be delicate

[warm saddle]

Depends on how many threads your rig can run

[tawny briar]

oh god I don't know

[glossy anchor]

too quickly

[tawny briar]

my rig is half-ass

[glossy anchor]

it doesn't come through well in the recording, but I was shaking that mouse all over the place

[warm saddle]

But yeah in general resizing a window with thousands of elements is hard on performance

[glossy anchor]

as an extreme example

[tawny briar]

lmao

fair

[tawny briar]

I find it really hard to RP in that one. There are very few RP mechanics, most environments feel the same, and the world feels very static and samey

[sour leaf]

Yeah same

[tawny briar]

like what would be the point of temperature mechanics when the biggest temperature difference is like, temperate forest to sub-Skyrim temps

[sour leaf]

Idk what it is but everything about that game feels especially janky and it shines through even when I mod the hell out of it

[tawny briar]

I like playing rogues in that game because at least killing and stealing is fun

[glossy anchor]

||I still love oblivion and vastly prefer it to skyrim, as evidenced by while 1 minute of playtime i have in skyrim that was caused by launching enderal||

[warm saddle]

Damn

[tawny briar]

At any rate, it's just so obvious that the game was built around fast travel, which kind of neuters any survival mechanics.

[glossy anchor]

I mean, Leyawin and Bravil are florida-lousiana humid and hot, Anvil is tropical, but it doesn't come through really

[sour leaf]

Morrowind is my fav but I like Oblivion and Skyrim about the same but for different reasons

[tawny briar]

I prefer Oblivion too, mainly because it feels like more of an RPG to me, despite everything

[tawny briar]

That's the thing. I always feel like the game is gaslighting me about these things

If they actually felt that way, it'd be great

[sour leaf]

That's one thing that always annoys me is when people say "just don't use the fast travel" but the game is really built around it so not using it is tedious

[tawny briar]

MW is exotic and I prefer that but I don't need that--I could work with more standard terrain if they varied it. but they don't

[glossy anchor]

On First install Sun's Dusk tried to gaslight me into Anvil being Arctic

[sour leaf]

Or had more interesting encounters

[tawny briar]

For sure. It's just not meant for it

hell, in vanilla you can just fast travel to all major towns

and what's there to see in between towns? randomly generated dungeons

who gives a shit

[sour leaf]

Also, Morrowind has fast travel. It's just not as simple as the later games

I much prefer a diagetic fast travel system

[tawny briar]

I remember going to do that quest for the Dark Brotherhood where you have to go to a "swamp" called Bogwater, southeast of Leyawiin. I go there, and it's just a hill near the coast, looks like everywhere else

what fucking swamp????

[glossy anchor]

Morrowind has enough fast travel, and even without mods late game with 2 interventions, propylons etc it feels like anything is a hop and a skip away

[sour leaf]

Plus there's enough shit in the wilderness to make it fun to walk around

Dungeons, quests, etc

[tawny briar]

Yeah, saying it doesn't have fast travel would be wrong. As Anthony said, it's just diagetic, more complicated.

and ultimately I like that travel options are part of the progression

it's a more tangible feeling of developing mastery

[sour leaf]

It might be nostalgic but I much prefer that

[tawny briar]

I definitely do too

[sour leaf]

It actually kinda pisses me off that Skyrim has carriages but there's literally no reason to engage with them after a certain point

[tawny briar]

What sucks is, they could totally do this in games like Skyrim too

[tawny briar]

yeah exactly, I was just about to mention that

[sour leaf]

Last time I played NV, I used fast travel a ton but I had a mod installed that makes it so it consumes resources each time

I think I also had one that made it so there's a chance if it being interrupted

[tawny briar]

Mm, that's cool

Unfortunately I think these simulationist elements are unpopular on the greater market level

Most people want these games to be brain-off, which survival mechanics are very much not conducive to

I remember that Sseth review about Starfield, where he made a joke about Bethesda's primary demographic being dads who can play an hour a week or something

[sour leaf]

What's weird is that they used to be

[tawny briar]

TBF there's nothing wrong with less intensive games, but I feel like they're counterproductive to bethesda games

[sour leaf]

Bethesda got where they are because Daggerfall and Morrowind were gigantic hits

[tawny briar]

Maybe console-ization had a hand in it

[sour leaf]

I guess the gamer demographic back then was mostly the type of person who would also play DnD though. Now its basically everybody

[tawny briar]

and the effects of full VA can't be understated

[tawny briar]

That too

Nerds played Daggerfall; everyone plays Skyrim

I still gotta get into daggerfall

[sour leaf]

I think my perfect system would be something in between. Kinda like Morrowind with those Django voice mods where there's a bunch of voiced idle lines, a handful of quest specific ones, but otherwise everything else is text based. But I'd also want the text dialogue to be a bit less generic between NPCs

[sour leaf]

Exactly

[tawny briar]

Agreed. Fortunately, AA CRPGs are kind of carrying on that tradition

And hopefully BG3 showed that big budget games can be complicated as well

[sour leaf]

Like I feel like the local book store owner and some random dude on the street shouldn't have the same response when you ask about the town as a whole.

[sour leaf]

I had the most mind numbing conversaion about BG3 when that came won GOTY. I was in a group of guys and they were like like "How did that win? Who the even plays that? I've never heard of it"

[tawny briar]

It won like every fuckin award

and everyone played it

It's really remarkable that it caught both hardcore nerds and casual players

Remarkably accessible in that regard

[rough salmon]

To shareholders who run 90% of AAA sector? lmfao

[tawny briar]

Yeah, perhaps I'm a bit of a hopeless romantic...

Still, it does set an interesting precedent

[sour leaf]

That’s why I just play Morrowind lmao

[tawny briar]

byup

ignore gaming industry, play morrowind

mod morrowind because people are still developing mw lmao

[sour leaf]

I’ve been able to come back to it unmodded multiple times since I was a kid and mods just make it even more replyabale

[rough salmon]

Morrowind is not meant to be played

[sour leaf]

Exactly lol

[rough salmon]

It was meant to be modded

[sour leaf]

Yeah I’m aware. Don’t encourage me

[tawny briar]

ikr

[rough salmon]

Boot up your vscode

[tawny briar]

I always have this feeling of needing it to be "authentic" when really all that matters is if I like my setup

[sour leaf]

I’ve been meaning to get into Lua

[tawny briar]

and MW is a clusterfuck by default so it's kind of just something to build on anyway

[sour leaf]

I just haven’t had time to fuck around with it and learn it

[tawny briar]

I have tentative plans to make a class expansion mod, just to add some predefined classes. Get my feet wet

total newbie btw

[sour leaf]

Yeah that’s the interesting thing about morrowind to me is that the base game is already engaging enough for me to come back to it but it also feels like a blank slate for modding

[rough salmon]

It feels like it specifically because it has mods to pick from

[tawny briar]

Well like, I've mentioned Mym's mods before: Natural Character Growth, for example, radically changes the way character growth works. But, it's very authentic in its own way, and is almost certainly an improvement

but it's also a change

[sour leaf]

I feel like people don’t appreciate enough how the text dialogue system make mods way more seamless with the base game

[tawny briar]

that's always my debacle

[sour leaf]

Especially quest mods but even something like Suns Dusk where you can order a meal

[tawny briar]

I've barely touched TR lol

I have a lot of game to get through

I always get stuck on character creation though

[sour leaf]

My last “full” playthrough I had TR installed and legitimately never went there lmao

[tawny briar]

I tried at once point using console to play a Dunmer like an Altmer, but it ended up feeling off to me; with Races Respected, Dunmer have a magicka pool equivalent to the breton, with worse skills for magic but all that does is really elongate the progression

but then I end up thinking, what if I just did altmer. But I don't really like altmer

I know this is all stupid but that's where my mind goes

[tawny briar]

lmao me too

[sour leaf]

Actually that’s a lie. I went once for the hortator quests

[tawny briar]

My friend who's totally new to the game used a Scroll of Icarian Flight and just took off towards the mainland

ended up questing around there

[sour leaf]

Lmao

[rough salmon]

I like mah Reincarnate
While it does buff weaker races instead of nerfing powerful ones, I have way too many mods to balance it out. At the end of the day it makes me actually consider all races when creating character and this is what matters the most

[tawny briar]

I remember looking at this, but I wasn't sure if it worked with OpenMW. Does it?

[rough salmon]

100% does

[tawny briar]

hmm, interesting...

[rough salmon]

Its compimentary birthsigns mod too

[tawny briar]

I was just about to ask about that

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I'll take a look

Races Respected is pretty good but it has a few things that irk me

Shrinking imperials is the strangest one lmao. They're smaller now

[rough salmon]

While I like the Height and Weight, it's definitely a strange thing to do in a rebalance

Though I have to say this specific mod makes orcs REALLY ugly

[tawny briar]

I was just looking at this one actually

It seemed like it wouldn't be compatible with any race overhaul that isn't explicitly patched for it

[rough salmon]

(it makes this mod even more authentic lmao)

[rough salmon]

[tawny briar]

Yeah, Reincarnate appears to work

but I was working with the assumption that I'd keep using Races Respected

Another question: do you know if Reincarnate works with Skill Evolution/NCG? Mym mentioned that he has to patch race overhauls for those mods deliberately

[rough salmon]

idk, I didn't have any issues with that

[tawny briar]

But you use them together?

[rough salmon]

unless I miss something

yeah

[tawny briar]

gotcha

I mean, if you've played and haven't noticed anything, it's probably fine

I could also just ask Mym but I've pestered him enough in the past lol

[tawny briar]

Wonderful, thanks for checking for me

[lunar tiger]

Can bathing buffs be disabled? Like with the other needs? I cant find the setting

I want just debuffs

[warm saddle]

Nah I haven’t made that setting yet but you can turn on the wetness debuffs and enable some of the other settings if you want to make it more difficult

[warm saddle]

I told them they can download the early versions of BoV but also like you and me both, random nexus user

[glossy anchor]

BoV is onlt mainland though, right?

[sour leaf]

No it’s only Vvardenfell

[glossy anchor]

That's what I was thinking

and said the opposite

Yeah At least I haven't found an addon, or any baths on the Mainland (except the bathhouse in Anvil)

which is just from Cyr_main

[sour leaf]

Lmao

Been there

[warm saddle]

Yeah someone added wells to the mainland but adding bathhouses to places would be much more involved

[sour leaf]

Vvardenfell feels like the mainland since it’s vanilla

[warm saddle]

TR makes Vvardenfell look like a mod

[sour leaf]

I think Dubious said he plans to eventually but wants to lock down the Mainland ones first right?

[glossy anchor]

honestly, yeah

[warm saddle]

Not sure but yeah mainland bathhouses would be a huge undertaking

[sour leaf]

That’s why I need BCOM alongside TR lmao

[warm saddle]

I just use multimark 😂

[glossy anchor]

did you just do the same thing I did?

[sour leaf]

Even then some of the cities feel half assed 😅

[sour leaf]

shut up

Yes

[warm saddle]

RP can only do so much haha

[glossy anchor]

lmo

[sour leaf]

Which one do you use? I was using the one on the modlists but ownlyme’s seemed better

[glossy anchor]

I've been caryying a basin with me, and using it in taverns and near clear bodies of water

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme’s since I helped with it haha

[glossy anchor]

pretending it's empty while I carry it

[sour leaf]

I don’t mean RP’s work feels half assed

Everything he does makes it like 10x better

[warm saddle]

For sure haha

[sour leaf]

Like you said though, there’s only so much he can do lol

One thing I realized is how insane vanilla Vivec is compared to the rest of the base game

[warm saddle]

For sure

[sour leaf]

Like no city in the game even comes close in scale.

[glossy anchor]

I use daisy's multimark, it replaces the spell effects though, so may have conflicts. Doesn't on my 150+ list though

[sour leaf]

I know that’s the point to an extent but it’s like, comically huge

[warm saddle]

Yeah you need patches for it which the momw modpacks include

[sour leaf]

Ownlyme’s uses the vanilla effects and doesn’t need patches for TR (to my knowledge)

[warm saddle]

Better UI too

[glossy anchor]

I may replace it, but I kinda like daisy interface better - it's more vanilla-y

[sour leaf]

It also lets you delete saved locations without overwriting them

[glossy anchor]

flat doesn't mean better :P

[sour leaf]

(Hyacinth worked on that mod)

[warm saddle]

Being able to click and drag = better

[glossy anchor]

Fair

I was talking about visual part

[warm saddle]

And highlight typed text and change icons

[sour leaf]

Usability is the main thing for me

[warm saddle]

I can go on xd

[sour leaf]

I’m assuming you use Pure Lua Multimark then lol

[warm saddle]

You can even see a preview of the UI in the settings while you tweak them

Think it was the first UI mod which I’ve seen for that 🧐 the rest of our UI mods came after that

[glossy anchor]

No, honestly it's great. I just have opinions about looks

(my profile status is there for a reason)

[sour leaf]

That’s fair. I also try to keep stuff fairly vanilla looking but I always prioritize functionality

[warm saddle]

Todd.exe doesn’t have click cancellation and highlighting scroll bars and a few other things that ownlyme includes in all his UIs

Having 3 different colours for highlighting + clicking

Same goes for the cooking UI and CF, most of his mods tbf

[sour leaf]

Is the UI changing for CF,

[warm saddle]

A little bit, search bar, filtering, collapsing sections

[sour leaf]

Yesss

[warm saddle]

The button to pull it up might also change but that’s mostly up to modders if they want to call it with a button

[sour leaf]

Is it currently readjustable?

The placement is a little weird since it overlaps with the vanilla window but that might just be how I have my UI set up

[warm saddle]

Of course haha

[sour leaf]

How do I move it?

[warm saddle]

The settings ?

I’m not sure if there’s a click + drag heading on that one since it’s a beast but there are settings for adjusting the size and whatnot

[sour leaf]

Ah see I was looking for a click and drag thing

I’ll mess around with it later lmao

[warm saddle]

Sure haha

[warm saddle]

Setting the standards I see

[sour leaf]

Click and drag is just

It’s so convenient

There’s a bunch of mods where I spent all this time messing with the coordinates to get the ui to line up where I want it

[warm saddle]

Yeah I think I might have a solution for that but we’ll see

[sour leaf]

I don't see a way to reposition the button

[warm saddle]

Hmm

Think it’ll be with this update then 😄

[sour leaf]

I wasnt crazy!

[sour leaf]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueSTL/comments/1rggv00/robert_griffing_friend_or_foe_2000/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[warm saddle]

Btw, if anyone wants to see when their stats are being changed by another mod feel free to check out https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58304

[warm saddle]

Some updates in the works for this mod and a few others, should be ready later tonight or tomorrow

[glossy anchor]

I was going to report that waiting in the rain, somehow dries me. Though assuming that not much can be done about that. Something similar going on here?

[warm saddle]

Depends on if you’re standing under shelter or not

[glossy anchor]

Am not

[warm saddle]

It’s very precise so if you’re like right under a tree then yeah you’ll dry off

[glossy anchor]

was just in the streets of old ebonheart. The wide one where the mage's guild are

more or less in the center of it

I can't say with 100% certainty that there wasn't anything above me though, so disregard for now

[warm saddle]

Was your wetness bar pulsating?

[glossy anchor]

nah, just went to 0 from ~50% or so

[warm saddle]

If your wetness bar was pulsating, it means you‘re actively getting wet

So if it’s not pulsating, that means you’re drying off

[glossy anchor]

Ah, that's what you mean. I honestly don't remember what it was like before I clicked "wait". But before and after the wait there was rain, after I started getting wet again. But during the wait - it just sharnk to almost 0 without pulsating

[warm saddle]

Yup that means you were drying off

Feature, not a bug :)

[glossy anchor]

I'll need to explore it further next rain, unless you track weather while wait time is passing - it felt a bit idiosyncratic, to start the wait in the rain, end it in the rain and end up dry

Probably user error tho, if it's accounted for

[warm saddle]

[sour leaf]

You guys are wizards

[warm saddle]

Changelog v1.8.3

Features
Liquids

• Open vessels (bottles, cups, tankards, etc.) that are placed or found underwater are now automatically filled with the correct water type for their location
  • This works in both exterior cells and interior cells
  • Owner data (faction, rank, recordId) is preserved when a vessel is replaced when filled
  • Any existing liquid VFX is cleaned up.
• New waterType function determines the water type for any cell
  • Interiors: type comes from cell classification
    • Sewers - suspicious water
    • Dungeons/Tombs/Mines/Caves - suspicious (unless the "clean dungeon water" setting is on)
    • Houses/Temples/Castles/Baths - clean water
    • Ice caves - clean water
  • Results are cached per cell and the cache is cleared when water settings change.
• A new G_cellInfoCache table in g_cellInfo.lua stores interior cell info globally so resolveWaterType can access it from the global script

Bathing & Cleanliness

• Water type changes dirtiness when the player is submerged
  • Water cleans you if you are dirty, filthy, disgusting
  • Anything else makes you slightly dirtier
• Weapons take durability damage too
  • Damage previously only applied to armor but now also applies to equipped weapons when the player is in weapon stance
• Safety checks now verify that items have health and condition data before applying durability damage preventing errors on items that don't support durability.
• Wetness from bathing has been increased

Insomniac Rework

• Insomniac detection system has been reworked to detect the last 24 hours the player actually slept
• Now first checks if the player has slept more than 3 actual hours in the last 24, preventing false insomniac triggers for players who slept recently

UI

• New staged HUD skin preset "Velothi2 (S)" has been added with its own color configuration
• A new SunsDusk_setAlpha event handler allows external control of the HUD's transparency
• Faster Left-Shift Updating Setting
  • A new settings checkbox "Faster left shift updating" makes the buff-based HUD left-shift update every frame instead of on the sluggish scheduler. Comes with a performance warning in the description.

New Events

• SunsDusk_finishedBath is fired when the player bathes, allowing other mods to react
• SunsDusk_attackedTree isfired after a woodcutting hit, passing the tree progress

Fixes

• Cooking UI properly closes interface
• All statics registered for baths now actually work (previously used shower instead of bath)
• New isValidBBox(bbox) function checks for NaN values, near-zero sizes, and extremely large sizes (>1e6).
  • Used as a guard for cooking, liquids, and woodcuttingto prevent crashes or incorrect behavior from invalid bounding boxes (lol engine feature)
• isChargenFinished() now uses :find("chargen statssheet") instead of iterating all inventory items which is both cleaner and more efficient
• Type check to prevent the liquid VFX handler from processing irrelevant object types

Performance Optimizations

• New global caching references are created once in the player script and reused across all modules
• Every player module and supporting scripts have been updated to use cached references instead of calling types.Actor.stats.dynamic.health(self) etc. on every access.
• Widespread refactor touching nearly every lua file reduces per-frame overhead
• Interior cell info is now cached to avoid redundant classification work

[tepid sedge]

people want showers to dry them off? Oo

[ripe anvil]

Great new update and thank you!🙏

[rotund epoch]

It seems that the most common answer is this:

[half summit]

Immersive Immersion

[half summit]

love to see it

[grizzled flume]

Good I love updates

Probably a question for general chat but with the abundance of mods that essentially add what seems like base features of the morrowind engine, lua physics, ammo count, quest and magic menu rework, how likely would it be that these mods would be add to openmws settings page?

[rough salmon]

I'm paraphrasing, but Capo said that if anything can be made as a mod, it should be made as a mod

They would've already ditched the Weapon Sheathing and Graphic herbalism from the launcher if they could

[grizzled flume]

Ok ok understandable

[gloomy mango]

Those are the two I would have said as examples to the contrary. I love that OpenMW comes with those as launcher options.

[gloomy mango]

I’d disagree with all of those except the option to add ammo count since that’s QoL without altering the core experience.

[glossy anchor]

Performance Optimizations
Wow. I didn't expect to gain ~10 fps in old ebonheart O_o

[half summit]

Nice!

[rough salmon]

They are engine side patches for actual mods to work afaik. Clicking the checkboxes in launcher doesn't do anything by itself

[rough salmon]

I don't think Anvil's bathhouse counts as one in SD 🤔

And they don't even sell soap there 😭

[warm saddle]

Should be considered one 0.o has “bathhouse” in the cell name lol

But in general bathhouses are hardcoded since they’re all added by mods so the TR team will be the ones registering it

[rough salmon]

Why didn't I get any buffs then? 🤔

[warm saddle]

Buffs for ?

Soap or ?

[warm saddle]

That’s TR lol

[rough salmon]

Bathhouses don't give any buffs by themselves when you wash there?

[warm saddle]

Correct

[rough salmon]

bummer

[warm saddle]

Unless they’re categorised as great house which dubious has done

[rough salmon]

Maybe you could add some kind of falloff at least? I don't think TR people add any integrations like that

[warm saddle]

Nah haha most everything related to bathing is hardcoded so if someone wants something, they’ll have to add it themselves
That said, any place with Bathhouse in the cell name should give you unlimited soap and towels and allow you to bathe if you’re wet

[rough salmon]

Okay, that's something

[warm saddle]

But yeah dubious has all of the bathhouses “hardcoded” for the special buffs

I think trav said he’d pick up the torch for TR interop because yeah I’m not familiar with all of the cells that should be considered bathhouses

In general I’m conservative with things I classify for bathing since the bathing UI locks the camera and bathhouses can bring up a ton of tooltips

[glossy anchor]

I think it's still some sort of procedural pick up. I did get a "Hlaalu bath invegorates you" in random houses when using the wash basin

[warm saddle]

Yeah I thought I fixed that, you’re not supposed to but eh idc enough xD

[glossy anchor]

it was on 1.8.2

Didn't think much of it at the time

[half summit]

looks cold too..

[glossy anchor]

Anvil is tropical af, so that sort of makes sense

[half summit]

Utility Spell idea: Conjure Vibe
manifest the atmosphere of your chosen Great House

[rough salmon]

nah, they state in the dialogue that those baths are really warm\

[glossy anchor]

One of the swimmers, right? The sailor that went on a bender?

He just says that water is warm compared to the open ocean

[rough salmon]

no, the bathhouse worker

[half summit]

ocean is pretty warm in the tropics, no?

[rough salmon]

which trades yet doesn't sell any soap!!!!

[glossy anchor]

I guess, something to poke PT writers about

[glossy anchor]

Not in the open sea, not really

[half summit]

could make a patch 🤔

[glossy anchor]

Like, vibe wise - Anvil bathouse passes. It's warm, but probably less warm than outside, thick stone walls again make for a cooler building. Water probably doesn't even need to be heated to feel pleasant

[half summit]

fair enough

[glossy anchor]

I don't remember what climate SD assigns there. But it's supposed to be tropical

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’s tropical

[rough salmon]

Todd could never

[rough salmon]

mhm

[rough salmon]

40 fuckin 7 celsius
I might be boiling alive at this point

[warm saddle]

Is something wrong here ?

[rough salmon]

nah

[glossy anchor]

What am I missing? Have foodware and water, interface sees it.

But ignores all of ingredients I have on me. Just eggs and yams and some random stuff, but should at least show up, no?

[glossy anchor]

Do worry, it's not a dry heat :D

[rough salmon]

Well duh, that's what happens when yiu search for a lotus flower in a swamp

Swamp worse than a bitter coast

[tepid sedge]

error messages in the log?

[glossy anchor]

No

[tepid sedge]

can you send us your log and maybe your save?

[glossy anchor]

just a bunch, of what I assume was debug logging.
Ugh- I've restarted the game between then and now and it's fine now ...

[tepid sedge]

hmm okay

then maybe next time 😄

[glossy anchor]

I had a bunch of 0.something 5.something floats

which I assumed was debug stuff

from sd_p

but no errors

[tepid sedge]

hmm no idea

[glossy anchor]

[23:05:16.230 I] L@0x1[scripts/sunsdusk/sd_p.lua]: 0.99185267943704
[23:05:16.231 I] L@0x1[scripts/sunsdusk/sd_p.lua]: 5
like this -

Anyway, if it happens again I'll grab the full log

[tepid sedge]

thank you

will take a look what those numbers are, maybe orphaned debug messages

[glossy anchor]

That was my assumption

Speaking of, while I've got your attention, and just to doublecheck - you're ownlyme on nexus, right?

Cause I may need advice on "better elemental shields". Cause that one does spam quite a bit

[23:06:58.099 E] L0x1a0000f0[scripts/better elemental shields/actor.lua] callTimer failed: Script doesn't exist
[23:06:58.099 E] L0x1a0000ef[scripts/better elemental shields/actor.lua] callTimer failed: Script doesn't exist
Happens on cell change. actor.lua definitely does exist though. No worrie if you don't support it anymore

[warm saddle]

Try turning on arcane cooking in the settings and see if your ingredients show up

Or did resetting fix it ?

[glossy anchor]

Restart helped, no idea why, yeah

not even reloadlua, I've restarted the full game for a separate reason

[warm saddle]

No clue

[glossy anchor]

I'll grab the log and the save if it happens again

[warm saddle]

I’ve seen that happen if the database isn’t read correctly

[lunar tiger]

Bro what? I thought it was MEANT to be used with those mods.

Is it a hard incompatibility or just a minor thing?

[warm saddle]

Absolutely not meant to be used lmfao although obviously they are popular, neither of us use any of those mods and only have them against our will for testing

[lunar tiger]

Oh sorry, for some reason I thought there was no problem using them all together

[warm saddle]

I wrote a detailed comment about it on nexus, your game won't crash or anything but I've been getting bug reports for attribute/skill modifiers caused by those mods for weeks (if not longer) which are completely unrelated to this mod and you can see that if you have https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58304

Mym has been working on solutions I think since this mod isn't the only one it would have problems with but yeah I am/was tired of the bug reports so I slapped that in there

[lunar tiger]

I see. Are there any "alternate" leveling or skills mods that are more compatible with SD?

[warm saddle]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/57062 and https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/54953 are the ones I use and recommend

[ripe anvil]

I love the improve leveling mod of ownlyme

[warm saddle]

I also highly recommend https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/57295 but that can be used regardless of the leveling mod you use

[glossy anchor]

I gotta say it's a damn shame you don't like those. I'll probably still use both ncg and se at my own risk :P

[sour leaf]

Are all of ownlyme’s mods compatible with SD,

And is HBFS compatible?

[warm saddle]

Feel free to let us know xD

[sour leaf]

Damn okay 😂

Will do 🫡

[warm saddle]

Just looked through the mod description and everything looks ok, I haven't received any bug reports either but I remember someone asking about other armor and weapons having durability dmg on them in water but it was just HBFS

[lunar tiger]

I love improve vanilla leveling. Used it a while ago for a long playthrough. But doesn't it make things easier? Since you can accumulate stats? But well I guess you can compensate by making things harder with other mods

[sour leaf]

Oh interesting. So HBFS also does that?

[warm saddle]

That's all HBFS, this mod only changes durability for the player's equipped armor and weapons when swimming

[lunar tiger]

Can I use slow leveling speed with these two? Sorry for the questions not pertaining to SD

[tepid sedge]

thats why i cap my attributes per level at 4

[warm saddle]

Yeah you can adjust xp rates and whatnot, the Improved Vanilla Leveling just makes vanilla leveling not terrible

[tepid sedge]

got a bunch of balancing tweaks in my game, primarily focussed on using price balance

[lunar tiger]

Oh great idea

[lunar tiger]

Is this like a replacement for better merchant skills?

[warm saddle]

I wouldn't say so, these are just GMSTs

[sour leaf]

Ohhh

[sour leaf]

Alright I just swapped out those mym mods for these by ownlyme. Are there any others you recommend?

[tepid sedge]

mainly mods to stop yourself from exploiting the game
fortify nerf: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/56524
mercantile exploit fix: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/57047

[sour leaf]

I will add these as well 🫡

[sour leaf]

Do you know if either of these are redundant with the Expanded Vanilla list?
https://modding-openmw.com/lists/expanded-vanilla/

[tepid sedge]

bad self control as me, i see xD

[sour leaf]

My modlist is insane rn

But Sun's Dusk is a priority lol

[tepid sedge]

thats a lot to look through.. idk sry

99% sure all of these are fine

unless they directly modify your characters stats in a RECKLESS way

[sour leaf]

Oh I didn't expect you to look through it. I was just wondering if you knew any

[sour leaf]

I think it was just SE and NCG

[tepid sedge]

yeah ncg falls into that category

whats SE?

[sour leaf]

Skill Evolution

[tepid sedge]

oh yeah i think that too

gotta ask mym if he carefully adds attributes and makes sure he subtracts exactly the same amount of attributes later

afaik his mods rather force a certain value and dont take into account other mods (mods, not modifiers)

imo thats the only way we all can coexist.

[sour leaf]

Idk I just saw that SD is explicitly not compatible lol

[tepid sedge]

add your value, remember what it is, subtract it again

or just use abilities

[sour leaf]

Makes sense

@warm saddle Do you have a magicka regen mod you recommend?

[warm saddle]

I like imperial magicka regen but mym’s new one looks ok too, not sure what the differences are though

[tepid sedge]

100% mwscript, applied as time passes
pretty primitive though
from
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/49040?tab=description
probably edited

[sour leaf]

I was honestly surprised you hadn't made one but apparently you have lol

Oh nvm lol

[tepid sedge]

im currently using imperial magicka regen

[sour leaf]

I'm surprised ive never heard of this

[tepid sedge]

a bit flirting with mym's magicka regen mod because i like being incinerated by enemy mages too

[warm saddle]

Be sure to grab Time Flies too https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58252

[sour leaf]

I installed this immediately lmao

Like as soon as it released

[sour leaf]

Sun's Dusk is like the number one priority in my modlist but I'm also using like all of your mods and ownlyme's mods because you guys update them frequently and focus on performance and keeping them fairly lightweight and compatible.

I've seen some Lua mods that technically work and have really cool ideas but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired

[warm saddle]

Appreciate it :) and we have more coming

[sour leaf]

I'm very excited for your religion mod

[warm saddle]

Yeah ... working on a few of those because there are some cool ideas but some mods are just unusable without clicking and dragging

[sour leaf]

Click and Drag is a godsend lol

[sour leaf]

Any hints at what those are? 👀 I saw your comment on the horizontal compass mod about modifying the healthbar version lol

[warm saddle]

Yeah basically lol

[sour leaf]

The successor to SME I've needed lmao

[warm saddle]

Eventually that's what I'm going for, this is mostly to hold me over til then haha

Most importantly it uses the same raycast that sun's dusk uses so there should be no performance cost

It's in a rough state atm but everything seems to be working, this is like a prototype for what I'm working towards though

[tepid sedge]

reading skill books increasing your exp rate instead of just giving you a level

[sour leaf]

I like that a lot

[tepid sedge]

project zomboid enjoyer? 😄

[sour leaf]

Nah I just like that idea better than the vanilla behavior lol

I forgot there's a CF update coming soon too damn

[tepid sedge]

yeah no

been working on that 3 months now, maybe it will never come out

anyone wanna gift me https://www.gamedevmarket.net/asset/aar-crafting-survival-sfx ?
kinda stuck on making sound definitions right now

[half summit]

Damnit, the temptation, Iv been battling those compulsions for a while now...

[sour leaf]

You have to because apparently mym's mods arent compatible with SD

[half summit]

It works its just a bit buggy

Could be ignored

With some convincing and internal struggle

[sour leaf]

The mod page says not to

[half summit]

I know dude, that's why I was conflicted

[sour leaf]

Ik im just being annoying lmao

[half summit]

I've been using them all for months

[half summit]

Jolly good

My .cfg is so unwieldy it always feels like the last Jenga piece coming out when I change something

[tepid sedge]

no idea what to tell you, i know my mods and how invasive they are but im convinced that they should be robust

if ncg and co are as robust, only their author can tell you

though the improved leveling mod is by far the least invasive

fortify fix, fortify nerf and abilities are modifiers are the top invasive ones

[half summit]

Yeah most of your stuff is solid af, especially with recent improvements.

I kind of like the idea of going back to a simpler vanilla style levelling

[sour leaf]

That's what I was saying. I trust these two to do good work

[half summit]

I love bmso though it's so brutal

[half summit]

Yeah exactly

[sour leaf]

I've run into several lua mods where the idea was solid but the implementation was rough

[half summit]

Yeah I'm learning how much performance can vary with one line of code chosen poorly

I'm at over 1300 mods and I have better performance now than at 800

[sour leaf]

What's your secret

[sour leaf]

Were there any mods you tested and removed because of how badly they impacted performance?

[half summit]

Yes

Lol can't think now but if you ask me about some there's a good chance I've tried it briefly 😅

[tepid sedge]

without openmw showing the max frametime per mod theres not much you can do

the ops are a very poor metric

[sour leaf]

Tamriel Rebuilt

[half summit]

Bloodmoon

[sour leaf]

"Removed bloodmoon."

"Why?"

"I don't like it"

[half summit]

Nah just joking, but it does cause some problems tbf

[sour leaf]

It does?

[half summit]

Like with the cs

Evil GMSTs and such

[sour leaf]

Tbh I have no idea what this means and I see it all the time

I know that cleaning the plugins removes them

[half summit]

Yeah it's basically just crud that can gum up the works

[sour leaf]

I just googled it and it makes a lot more sense now

[sour leaf]

Any chance you could send your settings.cfg? I'm curious. I basically just turned everything as low as possible

[half summit]

Yeah sure, it's a bit of a Frankenstein now too, I have a lot of tweaks to it gathered over time,

[sour leaf]

Hey if it works it works lol. Thank you!

[sour leaf]

Actual question: Dynamic Sounds?

[half summit]

probably my biggest question

[sour leaf]

I wanted to keep it but something about my framerate settings made it not trigger and it seemed like it was affecting my performance in general

I can’t say for sure

But like when I’d boot the game up the sounds wouldn’t play. I’d have to load a save for it to start working

[half summit]

yeah it definitly has some problems, it works well for me for the most part but get big lag spikes on cell change and some other weirdness. its just so atmospheric though. its a hard mod to recommend

[sour leaf]

I have it replaced with the Interior Weather mod

That was my favorite part of Dynamic sounds anyway

The other stuff was nice too tho

[sour leaf]

I also noticed the lag spikes on cell change and I read somewhere that dynamic sounds causes it

[half summit]

yeah i think because its sweeping the cell and placing approptraite sound markers

[sour leaf]

Yeah

[half summit]

i think the benefits are pretty minor in the scale of things. all things considered i probably wouldnt recomend it unless you were going for a small setup

[sour leaf]

Yeah exactly

The reason I downloaded it in the first place was for the interior weather sounds and everything else was a bonus but Kirel’s does that fine

[half summit]

Hmm yeah I still don't know if I'll remove it though, a rich soundfield is soook important to me

[sour leaf]

Yeah I go back and forth on adding it back

There was a weird bug where it would detect my framerate as infinite and then just not work

Even though I had it capped at 72

[gloomy mango]

https://tenor.com/view/non-canon-dc-worldwide-gif-25576546

Four staples of incompatibility 😭

From what I've read it looks like Mym is working on making them compatible with SD?

[rough salmon]

seems to, yeah

Random idea: drinking habits - alcoholic and teaholic

One makes you closer to the realm of Unc Sheo and opens the third eye - boosts Illusion, Mysticism, Alteration and Alchemy (or something in that vein of having your mind altered) and makes you less accurate overall (to not screw up heavy drinking nord barbarians). Alternatively it can make you either more glass cannon-y or opposite - less accurate, but more tanky. There are a lot of options

Second energizes you (tea is known to contain some both caffeine and calming effects based on it's type) and may be more suitable to stealth specialization or warriors - fatigue, endurance, agility, thievery or combat boosts

[warm saddle]

It’s not just this mod they’re not compatible with I think I’m just one of the first mod authors that’s just straight up said it haha

[warm saddle]

Yeah I’ll be going for the tea one when I make the barista module, alcohol and skooma addiction I’ve left to devilish (although I don’t use mods) but I might since those are probably the most compatible with SD and it could be fun doing interop

[rough salmon]

DD removed any debuffs from his alcohol mod and made it purely cosmetic

[warm saddle]

Yup haha that’s why I’m saying that

[rough salmon]

Plus knowing his approach to the Devilish Needs, I don't believe he'd add mod buffs AND debuffs to that mod

[warm saddle]

This mod already has APIs for tracking consuming habits and several other things so it would probably be easier for me than him

Yeah the addiction mechanics was brutal, I’d maybe add settings for it

Now that I know how to add settings to other mods from within a mod 🧐

[half summit]

i like how brutal it is, being addicted to skooma was an experience with that shader haha, it really makes you cautious about partaking

[half summit]

you can what?!

[warm saddle]

Yeah you can add settings to another lua mod from within a lua mod

Ownlyme did it with one of his mods so now I know how to

[half summit]

thats wild

[warm saddle]

Well I wanted a way to do this with Time Flies haha, something like that would probably be a setting better off in his but yeah

[gloomy mango]

I have my fingers crossed that they'll all be compatible by the time I pick up my playthrough again. Not played since SD 1.6.2

[warm saddle]

All good haha, yeah there have been a few good updates since then (and more to come), like you can run them at the same time just I can’t help you with any bugs related to your attributes getting fucked

[rough salmon]

they are not super incompatible per se
you'd be likely fine if you disable NCG/SE time passing features and replace them with Time Flies

at least I didn't have any issues since then

[warm saddle]

Time Flies is one of the bug fixes for NCG/SE

That’s why I made it 😄

I think Abilities are Modifiers helps too but idk, I didn’t do a lot of testing with additional mods

[rough salmon]

maybe, but AEM tricks SE into thinking that the skills got decayed and it gives you unreasonably high xp gain boost

[glossy anchor]

can you please elaborate?

[warm saddle]

Lmfao

[rough salmon]

• obviously buggy display of all those things

[rough salmon]

time passing for doing stuff, but in non-engine breaking way

[warm saddle]

Those mods fuck with the engine’s calendar, I talk about it here https://gitlab.com/lhya/sunsdusk/-/wikis/troubleshooting#help-my-temperature-is-200000000000000000000000000

[glossy anchor]

Ah

Roger that

(It's them then to thank for me even noticing the desync)

[warm saddle]

You can see it in action with mass training and also when you see timehud going berserk for a minute

That’s timehud trying to fix itself, the timer is just set to a minute for performance reasons

[glossy anchor]

No, I did see it. Specifically when I first tested original Date and Holidays by first spending a year waiting in Arrille's tradehouse, and then spending a few months training

[warm saddle]

I told mym to take my code from Time Flies, that will certainly help but I’m not sure if it will fix the problems entirely and I think he’d have to limit a few things like the training time

For complete control of training time you’d have to edit the GMST to 0 and then replace it with your own formulas for calculating training time which obviously makes it incompatible with any mod looking at that

Maybe there are ways for more compatibility in regards to that but I simply opted for adding additional time to the 2 hours

[glossy anchor]

I mean - having it be base, and just using different scale for anything you add is a safe approach

[warm saddle]

Kinda a skill issue (literally since you’d be using the skill API lol) since other mods should be looking for skill diffs with training but yeah

[warm saddle]

Yeah that’s what I do

But anyway I guess I could add that to the mod descriptions but it’s just easier to say they’re not compatible though idfk if there are other problems

And after receiving dozens of bug reports for this mod for over a month I’m not particularly in the mood 😄

It’s also why ownlyme made pretty stats, so ppl can see when lua mods change their stats

[glossy anchor]

Reading through this - this tracks with what I saw when I tried to base current age calculation on gameTime. at one point it jumped from 427-01-01 to 427-08-15 and then backwards by a few months. Why I ended up with decimal dates too

[warm saddle]

That’s also why this mod uses abilities and spells instead of changing stats with lua (which would eliminate the need for an esp), for maximum transparency and just accountability so people can actually see their stats on their spell effects and not just from our tooltips

[warm saddle]

Yeah basically

It’s not even really a bug with the calendar, it’s just how the calendar works

[glossy anchor]

I mean - it jumped from 01-01 to 08-15 after waiting 24 hours.

But yeah

[warm saddle]

Lmfao

Sounds about right

[glossy anchor]

What's nice about morrowind calendar though, it's that it doesn't have exceptions real-life one does. So doing stupid shit that would never fly when rolling your own datetime irl - works :D

[warm saddle]

Yeah I think abot’s boats is a victim of the openmw calendar, I’m not sure about immersive travel

I think immersive travel is ok since it’s real time, the worst way to make the calendar freak out is to do anything across midnight

[glossy anchor]

Haven't looked at either of those - don't really fit my play-style, or what I want from the game, so couldn't tell you

[warm saddle]

Which is why Time Flies lets the calendar do its thing at 11:59:59 😂

[warm saddle]

Yeah they’re not for everyone, I just like them

I know ashfall has a meditate kind of thing, I might go for doing something like that eventually (not sure if it’s in the scope of this mod yet) but I would take the same approach probably

Except I might try to make my own wait menu for that

[glossy anchor]

When I used to play mge-xe ashfall was very buggy for me - never could make it work right. Meditate was for restoring magick? or am I misremembering?

[rough salmon]

WHen I first started modding, I had an idea for the "Yo, wait!" mod. Just hold a button to speed up time. Something like more immersive waiting feature

[warm saddle]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58039

I don’t use it personally and idk if he’s updated it yet 😂

[rough salmon]

isn't that just a cheat thing?

[warm saddle]

Not really, you can use it for whatever

[rough salmon]

(not that I really need it anymore)

I just pass time before bed and in the morning by reparing my gear or brewing potions

[warm saddle]

Also why I’m sus about dynamic timescale since I don’t think it accounts for whatever the engine does at midnight but I haven’t looked at the code for that mod

[rough salmon]

Gotta keep that Morning Lark buff

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’s good for combat characters

Night owl is alright if you’re going for a stealth build

But yeah it’s cool to see screenshots of people’s sleep habits on the UI

[rough salmon]

Night owl is tough pill to swallow if you have Nighttime Service Refusal mod

[glossy anchor]

I have go home, and pondering that mod that prevents service after hours, which means there's jack to do at night unless you're up to no good

So morning lark it is

[warm saddle]

And go home haha, I use those mods so night owl is kinda out of the question

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’s a good time for dungeon crawling

[glossy anchor]

Or vault robbing

(Hello, hlaalu manor in Bal Foyen)

[rough salmon]

I don't trust Go Home not to break shit enough to install it

[warm saddle]

Very true haha

[glossy anchor]

It actually is kinda safe

[warm saddle]

Makes looking for NPCs in TR a nightmare

[rough salmon]

I know it is not compatible with Dead Mer

[warm saddle]

I know there are blacklisted and stuff but imo it’s more fun that way

[glossy anchor]

it doesn't affect any NPC that has an mwscript attach

[warm saddle]

Oh really ?

I didn’t know that 0.o

[rough salmon]

Which can probably be fixed, but I can't be assed

[warm saddle]

True haha

[glossy anchor]

Iirc it's more like whitelisting, I've looked at it a while back

[warm saddle]

Gotcha

[glossy anchor]

which is why it is sort of safe, there's a lot of exceptions that say "NPC not safe to touch, don't" in it

too

[rough salmon]

I think people reported that it was disabling actors and Dead Mer treated that as them being dead

[glossy anchor]

iirc it's "whitelisted cells" and then exceptions per NPC

[warm saddle]

Oh ok, that’s fine then idc about more people having their ownership removed lmfao

[glossy anchor]

the disabling thing though yeah - that happens

[warm saddle]

I hate Morrowind’s ownership with a passion

When I tackle some more mods for Inventery Extender that’s one thing I’ll be fucking with

[rough salmon]

?????

[warm saddle]

Yup

[rough salmon]

hell yeah

[warm saddle]

And more of a Skyrim-like ownership system for merchants

[glossy anchor]

Doesn't OpenMW not dirty ownership in the same way vanilla engine does?

meaning one stolen diamond is not forever stolen

[rough salmon]

?

it is

[glossy anchor]

hmmm

where did I read that it doesn't 🧐

[warm saddle]

It’s not exposed to lua so it’s annoying asf

Dead Mer is a bug fix to me 😄

[rough salmon]

I see that one stolen bowl for soup in my inventory from time to time

[warm saddle]

Idfk what Ralts had to go through for his ownership, probably the same as ownlyme

[warm saddle]

Yeah I think he decided to keep the same ref IDs and ownership for the returned misc bowl

For consistency with vanilla but still

[rough salmon]

it's better for bug-proofing

[warm saddle]

I want to try my hand at something like the Buying Game but we’ll see

[rough salmon]

like that one (two) time when I got my quest items filled with water

[warm saddle]

Definitely doable with the skill framework, stat menu extender and also heavily reliant on ralt’s unreleased inventory extender so it’s not something I’d upload to nexus until he wants to release inventory extender

But I have a few other mods on my to-do list first it’s more that I want to make a mod that’s an alternative to BMS and accounts for some of the things I’ve learned from making this mod

Ralts’ API for tooltips wasn’t too difficult even in its beta state but a mercantile overhaul would be much more invasive/reliant on it

I do like the idea of hiding the price on things with a low merc skill

But also I know ownlyme hasn’t committed to 0.51 yet, just for testing and stuff since he likes his PBR on 0.50

[gloomy mango]

Already disable that anyway lol

So I’m good to use them together?

[rough salmon]

likely, yeah

[glossy anchor]

attribute and skill values may be weird

attributes specifically

[warm saddle]

Tl;dr is that they're probably fully compatible if you never look at your stats menu

Alright here I’ll put it to a poll since I’m bored and haven’t decided what to work on today

[gloomy mango]

Mercantile overhaul with lua is a gap for OpenMW currently

[warm saddle]

I’d say evening star too but the others have higher priority atm since they’re additions to our existing mods with the exceptions of the new book mod (or a fix to a problem like the merc overhaul )

[grizzled flume]

The mining overhaul

lol simply mining could just use all the new logic from tree cutting, swing a miners pick, the sound and ui responsiveness, and the ore drops like the wood

[glossy anchor]

||and not spawn in the middle of town :P|| - basically the only reason I've removed it from my list

[grizzled flume]

That too, lol walking into balmora only to find the juiciest ebony node right by the silt strider

Could have higher tier nodes show up the higher your mining skill is

Although since skill books are 90% done I’d like to see how that turns out

[warm saddle]

Drives me crazy lmfao

[grizzled flume]

I do like the sparkle and dropping of the wood from wood cutting, very little details like that really go a long way

[glossy anchor]

Oh, what's that a giant node of "All ebony is owned by the emperor" on the main square of old ebonheart.

I don't begrudge it, I know it's tricky, but just kicks me right out of any sense of immersion

[warm saddle]

Nah i agree completely haha (hoping ownlyme doesn’t see this)

[sour leaf]

What’s wrong with it?

[charred tide]

yes, it's just a test for now. I just didn't bother to reimplement it in the pure lua version

[warm saddle]

Yeah it would be a bit of a pain to do from scratch (probably), at least it was a pain with this mod to do the habits initially

[charred tide]

It'd be easy to do with the an esp again and probably doable with pure lua too

there are ways to put an effect directly on the player without a preexisting spell with an id

if you think about it, it'd make more sense to put the debuffs on the alcohol magic effects directly

hmm, maybe not. Debuffs are always a topic of hot debate

[warm saddle]

I'd do buffs and debuffs, not sure exactly what though but probably similar to sosnoviy's suggestions

[wary imp]

I feel like with mining it would be better to like just add the melting and breakdown of stuff into ore

Or add it to leveled lists of blacksmiths or something

Mining is cool but like does all ore actually exist in Vvardenfell?? Like maybe these are imported materials…

[warm saddle]

Yeah adding ores to smiths without an esp is definitely on the menu

[wary imp]

After seeing the power of suns dusk I feel like hunterwind redo could be a thing

Like crafting as a skill in the skill framework, getting leather for materials, more hooked into the survival ecosystem

[warm saddle]

Would take a similar approach to how we convert some items from ingredients/potions/misc items

[wary imp]

It’s all so seamless in suns desk

Yeah, I don’t know if ores are really…ingredients

[warm saddle]

Haha we appreciate it :)

[warm saddle]

They are in TD and I ain’t gonna change that lol

[wary imp]

Yeah, I get why, it’s just…conceptually a bit weird

[warm saddle]

Yeah I guess

[wary imp]

If I can eat a lump of ore why can’t I eat an iron dagger

[sour leaf]

I mean they are in vanilla technically

[warm saddle]

The bars of iron are misc items but the ore itself isn’t

[glossy anchor]

Eating ingredients in the conceptually weird part

[sour leaf]

Glass, diamonds, ebony, etc are all considered ingredients

[glossy anchor]

not iron being an ingredient

[rough salmon]

idk, I feel perfectly fine with Armorer being used instead of the custom skill
it's not as shiny, but gives at least some utility to the skill

[wary imp]

No, I know that, I was just saying I don’t feel like they should be

I know in vanilla they are but it’s kinda weird

[rough salmon]

PLUS it can be picked at the character creation

[sour leaf]

Oh yeah they definitely shouldn’t be but it’s also hilarious

[warm saddle]

Crafting can level several skills at once which is probably what I’ll end up doing for smithing

[sour leaf]

Munching on some diamonds

[wary imp]

Oh yeah good call, I love that. I was thinking of the hunterwind skill thing it does

[sour leaf]

Eating a diamond to find my car keys

[glossy anchor]

That's what I'm saying - because game doesn't make distinction between edible/inedible - it allows you to "eat" ingredients, and that's the weird part imo.

[warm saddle]

Purifying/cleansing cursed ore and gems is also on the to-do list

[warm saddle]

Can be prevented with lua I guess

I could add a setting for it maybe 🤔

[wary imp]

In real life I guess this could be like lye…don’t eat, but you can use in cooking

[glossy anchor]

Will need either a long content list, or some matching shenanigans to distinguish the two

[rough salmon]

And as far as other skill variations go - say, leatherworking... Shiny thing on paper, but rather impractical due to level scaling

[warm saddle]

Definitely not, there are less than a dozen

[wary imp]

I mean I guess you can poison yourself if you want

[sour leaf]

What about in TD and OAAB?

[glossy anchor]

^

[warm saddle]

Yeah including TD and OAAB

[glossy anchor]

huh, would've thought there's nore

[warm saddle]

And I already have a list of all the ores/gems since I have a mod that uses them for crafting

[glossy anchor]

*more. TD has a dozen gem types alone I think

[warm saddle]

Not cursed ones though

[glossy anchor]

Ah

I thought you are talking about making edible/inedible distinction

[warm saddle]

There are about 60 gems/ores across vanilla, TD and OAAB but only… 15 or so that have cursed variants ?

Which are easy to detect since they have mwscripts attached to them

[glossy anchor]

then there's salts (which are checmical salts, and should not be directly edible), and some other weird materials

[warm saddle]

Not true, Skyrim at least says they’re edible or at least used for preservation

[glossy anchor]

Don't make me rant about what "skyrim says" :P

[warm saddle]

There’s one book that mentions adding vampire dust to food too I think

[rough salmon]

spicy fire salts
chilly frost salts
and taste-muting void salts

[warm saddle]

Well it’s a quest from a Dunmer and also salts and bonemeal are used in affa’s recipes

So straight from a dev

[sour leaf]

I kinda don’t mind ingredients being edible

[glossy anchor]

Bonemeal - fair, ground up bone can be edible irl

I wouldn't recommend it

but can

[sour leaf]

Especially since some of them have negative effects

[glossy anchor]

(except it mostly comes from sentients in TES)

salts - should be edible once, imo

[warm saddle]

Oh yeah, any ingredients that should be added to the sus and salt water tables?
Glad you liked the starfish @rough salmon

[sour leaf]

I’m pretty sure SD already has interop with Hunterwind but I think a rework with SD and skill framework compatibility specifically in mind would be cool.

[rough salmon]

oh cool, they had even that in the morrowind

wonder where I can harvest it reliably

[warm saddle]

Yeah we definitely have the API for it, might even be able to attack corpses for skinning 🧐

[sour leaf]

If I ever stop working 14 hour days i might try my hand at a fishing mod using SD’s vectors lol

[sour leaf]

No way haha

[warm saddle]

Definitely custom tooltips though

[sour leaf]

I feel like a hunting module would fit right in with SD but Hunterwind is such a cool mod that I’d feel bad if it was made obsolete 😅

[warm saddle]

Yeah I’d definitely want a module from Hunterwind that disables the mwscripts if this mod is installed

[sour leaf]

At the same time, I do like when mods update and let me remove other stuff from my config 😅

[rough salmon]

It can get more polish, though

[sour leaf]

Yeah it definitely needs an update

[warm saddle]

It can also use Time Flies instead of the mwscripts for passing time so that the calendar doesn’t go berserk

[sour leaf]

A Lua based remake of Hunterwind would be pretty rad

[warm saddle]

That way you can get the dayspassed mod out of your cfg haha

[sour leaf]

I’m stillwaiting for the weather module so I can remove the Soltha one 😅

[warm saddle]

I don’t have the API for this (yet) but the next update will have an easy way for mods to add interop and their own settings

[sour leaf]

The soltha one is really well done though

[warm saddle]

Yeah that will need an API rework, mostly for the racials
I also need to look at the code for that mod so I know what I can make obsolete since I probably won’t be playing for a while

[sour leaf]

Yeah makes sense

[warm saddle]

But yeah I’d consider using Hunterwind if it didn’t have mwscripts and was lua based instead

[sour leaf]

I’m moving to a new project in a month so hopefully I’ll have more free time and I can screw around with Lua properly

[warm saddle]

It could even use the shared render raycast

[sour leaf]

Oooh

[warm saddle]

Speaking of which, @rough salmon want me to make a quick edit of SME to use the shared raycast ? Idk if that will fix all the problems but it will probably help

[sour leaf]

I tried out that rough Compass and health bar mod you shared in here last night and it seemed to work really well

[warm saddle]

It’s not super polished yet, the compass is mostly good to go but the healthbar needs to be a bit more sophisticated before I’d consider it to be in a good state

[rough salmon]

idk, I don't use it

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme would kill me if I made a mod that didn’t have the level of sophistication of his bars

[warm saddle]

Understandable lmfao

I uninstalled HBFS just because of the bugginess

[sour leaf]

I stopped using it awhile ago once I realized how janky it was

[sour leaf]

Same 😬

[rough salmon]

like, I already have everything I want
maybe except fancy enemy health bar since latest Dynamic Reticle update completely brine its

[sour leaf]

Then I reinstalled it because I figured I could just mess with the settings to get it how I wanted but I gave up and uninstalled it again

[warm saddle]

What do you mean ?

[rough salmon]

so I'm more excited about that healthbar you sent me getting finished :)

[rough salmon]

this shader aboniation

[warm saddle]

Yeah I’m gonna try to combine as much of SME with it that I can, the textures will be the easiest

I didn’t even realise it had reticle stuff since I use a different reticle replacer so I might try my hand at making a mod for that

[sour leaf]

SME was the only alternative enemy health bar I liked.

Vanilla’s is placed in a terrible spot. I also didn’t really like the one from SimpleHud, Dynamic Reticle, or Floating Healthbars.

Floating Healthbars is super impressive though. Just wasn’t my cup of tea.

[warm saddle]

Same, I also don’t use floating healthbars but want to add some of its features to the healthbar too, like spell effects

[sour leaf]

That would be cool

[rough salmon]

yea, Floating Healthbars tips the UI into gamey a little too much for my tastes

[warm saddle]

But floating healthbars will be an option in the settings if you have it installed

[sour leaf]

That might be it

[warm saddle]

But quickloot doesn’t?

Jk jk haha

[rough salmon]

too much utility...

[warm saddle]

Too much convenience

[sour leaf]

Quickloot feels more convenient and less game-y to me

[rough salmon]

if only it could look like vanilla UI

[sour leaf]

I feel like that would look kind of insane

giant black boxes appearing on the screen

[warm saddle]

There are settings for that

You can have big blocky borders and a black background at least

[rough salmon]

🤤

[rough salmon]

wait, rly?

I clearly missed that

damn, MWSE even had quickloot trading :0

[sour leaf]

I guess that doesn’t look as crazy as I thought it would

[warm saddle]

Unless you’re talking about the tooltips but he just added inventory extender integration so now there’s that consistency

[sour leaf]

What the fuck haha

[sour leaf]

I tried that mod out last night and got stuck in the barter window 😅

[warm saddle]

Probably 😂

But it’s too good

[rough salmon]

LMAO

[warm saddle]

Wtf lmfao

[sour leaf]

Trying to imagine the guy who prefers this over GH

[rough salmon]

comedy gold
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/53809

[sour leaf]

Sometimes I forget that MWSE exists and that you can do this kind of stuff with it lmao

[wary imp]

I don’t understand the point of quick loot but I also don’t want to use inventory extender without the doll as a feature LOL

Some things about Morrowind you have to pry from cold dead hands

[warm saddle]

Not the quickloot with organic containers lmfao

[sour leaf]

Convenience basically. It’s a lot nicer than individually opening each container

[wary imp]

That’s fun for me kinda

[warm saddle]

Not having a big blocky UI pop up on my screen every time I want to loot something

Legit I couldn’t play without quickloot since the frequent UI mode changes fucks with me

[rough salmon]

could use some padding and the correct border color, but that's at least something

[sour leaf]

My one complaint with Quickloot which is more of a me thing is that I always sheathe my weapon after a fight and I accidentally “take all” each time I do that lmao

[warm saddle]

There’s no API for padding so you basically have to create a UI on top of the UI, so it’s doable if you want a performance hit lol

[rough salmon]

[warm saddle]

We have it in the Sun’s Dusk tooltips though but I don’t want to imagine it with quickloot 😂

[lunar tiger]

I vote "other" because I NEED the religion mod.

[warm saddle]

Religion mod needs a few mods to be made before so I can stop getting bug reports and complaints to hunker down and focus on it

I could make it sooner but I’m kinda eying modathon 🧐

Maybe I’ll do an alpha sooner or something

[lunar tiger]

No need to hurry, modathon is may right? better, it will be more polished 😄

[warm saddle]

Yup haha

I mostly don’t want to maintain an ambitious gameplay/overhaul mod while many of our mods need to be cleaned up

With the exception of some mods that are almost done (like the skill books) and mods to make our lives easier (like the “truehud” mod)

[lunar tiger]

yeah, better to set up the basis instead of doing every mod from scratch

[warm saddle]

There are a few features that can be added to Sun’s dusk too that’ll make the religion mod better

Meditating, lighting incense, maybe some animation stuff, etc

Little shrines to place around too

[lunar tiger]

That sounds awesome

[rough salmon]

do I really not need to hurry with MoS update?

[warm saddle]

Ehh jewelcrafting and soul gem infuser will make the most of that, and those aren’t coming out until the crafting framework update

No idea when that will be 🤪

[sour leaf]

ownlyme said never lmao

[warm saddle]

Haha nah it’ll be soon I think but we’ll put out updates for all our mods at once since the SD recipes will need to be updated

[sour leaf]

All of those recipe mods need to be updated 😅

[warm saddle]

Maybe later this month with the next POTI update

[sour leaf]

I saw on the SD page that there’s exclusive features for POTI or something?

[warm saddle]

It’s kinda in the works but the cookbook will be exclusive to POTI since clayby has patches I can make use of

[sour leaf]

Ah gotcha

[warm saddle]

As far as exclusive features it’s mostly the recipes since they have crafting framework already

[lunar tiger]

btw, could anyone who is using the latest lua mods for survival, qol, difficulty (like: SD, hbfs, crafting, quickloot, freshloot, and all those) share their openmw.cfg with me?

[warm saddle]

I can maybe include some of the patches here if people want, definitely not something I’d want to upload to nexus haha

Don’t forget disenchanting with freshloot

[sour leaf]

Makes sense

[sour leaf]

I’m not using HBFS but I have the rest of those

[lunar tiger]

good! I just want to check load order

[rough salmon]

good luck, pal

there's ~1k mods listed in that file

[sour leaf]

Idek if my modlist is good. It’s this insane Frankenstein of Expanded Vanilla with a bunch of stuff removed and added

[lunar tiger]

jesus, the "fallbacks" are longer than my modlist hahaha

[rough salmon]

they are autogenerated

[lunar tiger]

but if that behemoth of a list holds together then I guess it's a good guide

[warm saddle]

Load order can be whatever, ownlyme has a big emphasis on being able to place his mods anywhere in any load order
The exception for this mod being below Ralts’ UI window replacers

[sour leaf]

Im almost tempted to switch to a simpler modlist and build on that instead of stripping EV and slapping new stuff into it.

But I use like 75% of the EV mods and they maintain the load order and a bunch of custom patches and stuff so

[rough salmon]

I have a specifically made function for checking lua dependencies and notifying the player with a message for all my mods 🥴

[rough salmon]

more like "I know where it has bugs, but couldn't name them right away"

though nothing suuuuper gamebreaking

maybe except one Aldruhn MG quest that I can't be bothered to narrow down (it's easier to just use the console)

[warm saddle]

Yeah Sun’s dusk has that for the stats window I believe, I should probably add that to utility spells just to annoy ownlyme

He doesn’t use MWX for … reasons I guess but I wouldn’t make a mod for custom (dummy) spells using the vanilla UI

[sour leaf]

MWX?

[warm saddle]

Magic window extender, idfk the abbreviation for it

[sour leaf]

Magic Window Extender my bad

[sour leaf]

MWX makes sense I’m just slow

[sour leaf]

You're using True Vvardenfell - Dagoths Domain? How's the compatibility with other stuff?

[rough salmon]

works fine with all the patches

[sour leaf]

Damn good to know

[rough salmon]

WOuld've switched to Red Tower if it wasn't conflicting with BCOM

[sour leaf]

I spent so long trying to get RMR to work lmao

[rough salmon]

ditched it myself as soon as I saw Dagoth's Domain

[sour leaf]

I assumed it would be equally incompatible

[half summit]

Yeah this is high on my list too

[sour leaf]

You should haha

[half summit]

I definitely will if someone else hasn't by the time I do. It would be sweet

Soon, I'm learning making anims atm

Using a raycast to cast would be lush

[sharp basalt]

Slight hiccup with Baths of Vvardenfell? Using soap when in one of the bathhouses doesn't seem to consume any of the use slots?

[warm saddle]

Not a bug, a feature :)

Soap in bathhouses is unlimited since I assume that soap sellers keep it restocked

[glossy anchor]

The same for cloth/towels? I noticed sometimes they are not used up, but couldn't pinpoint why

[half summit]

The Great Houses are committed to ensuring a satisfactory bathing experience to all. It is a matter of tradition

[glossy anchor]

Hmmm. Not sure if bug or feature, but it looks like telvanni bug musk gets used up if it's present in the invetory during bathing. So far only tested with the washbasin - and so it does. Not really expected outcome

[warm saddle]

Also a feature. There are 3 charges on it so it’s not just disappearing from your inventory immediately but it’s the same effect as being placed in the world and using it

[glossy anchor]

Hmmm, going to have to disagree with you on that. Bathing is an every day thing. +40 personality for a minute is more valuable to keep around for when you need it (especially with all the sway checks in TR).

generally - not sure I agree on using something up without player input

(even over 3 doses)

But sure, at least I know now. Going to be annoying taking it out of the inventory every time :D

[warm saddle]

You also have to take it out of your inventory and place it in the world to use it for bathing haha

[glossy anchor]

That's gameplay :)

[warm saddle]

I’ll see about adding a setting for it

But yeah it has charges so it’s not used up immediately and the buff is comparable to drinking it

[glossy anchor]

No worries. my only real proble with it is that it happens without my say so. If it was in the same dialogue where I select soap - absolutely, but automatically - no I don't like it

[warm saddle]

Noted

[glossy anchor]

on paper, maybe, but it's +10 for 12 or so minute. Duration is valuable sure, but not as valuable as another +30

Anyway, real takeaway is that I know what to do - I won't presume to impose design desisions

[warm saddle]

Think of it as a gold sink ;)

[glossy anchor]

Now that's fair

Problem is - I barely have any gold to sink atm, though not like that's hard or long to fix

[warm saddle]

[grizzled flume]

Yooo I’m literally dying from you rn 😂😂😂😭

[polar fox]

Protip, don't drop the satchel from the Census & Excise Office while you're wearing it. It turns into an incorporeal two-dimensional shadow plan that divides the world and rotates as you move

[sour leaf]

What lol

[rustic atlas]

@warm saddle Since you were able to make satchels equipable without using extra armor slots, could this be made possible with lighting effects for your mod too? Here in my example pictures I just added the lamp variation meshes to the groin part mesh of these costumized pants in nifskope and put a "Light" enchantment on top. Very unclean, I know.

[rustic atlas]

Having your hands free and incorporating your personal lamp into yout camp for the night, would be such quality of life features. Of course there could be craftable lamp oil or other resources that you need to keep the light running/lit.

[half summit]

wearable lamps is one of the Onion mods im trying to adapt to this method. i haven't had time to much progress yet but i have the skeleton set up and all the ids, hopefully get to look at it this weekend 🤞

[glossy anchor]

Kenshi vibes

[grizzled flume]

I gotta ask what’s the fit? Been looking to have some new clothes

[rustic atlas]

Oh really? Great to hear that! But be careful not to get burned out with all those cool mod project we already talked about now haha 😁

[half summit]

ikr

[rustic atlas]

It's an amalgamation of a lot of different elements from other armor sets. Mainly vanilla and Tamriel Data and some minor details from mods like Mages Robes and Daggerlad. Edited the textures and rearranged the meshes here and there too.
Took a lot of time and it's on the edge of feeling overloaded I would say 😅

Got also inspired by the Caravaner Banner

[glossy anchor]

I'm here for that cape though

[rustic atlas]

The cape is from the Skyrim section of Tamriel Data. It's a variation from the reachmen clothes 😉

[glossy anchor]

Oh, nice. I've been using a separate cloaks mod which I like, but all of them have hoods

[gloomy mango]

Can't consume from the overworld, is it supposed to be the F key?

Tried resetting mod and reloading lua

[glossy anchor]

Not F key, whatever key you have bound to "ready weapon"

[gloomy mango]

So that's the F key for me lol

[glossy anchor]

hmmm

[sharp basalt]

It's probably owned and you can't randomly swig peoples wine?

[gloomy mango]

Wouldn't it be red if it were owned? 🧐

[glossy anchor]

only if you have it enable in launcher, iirc

if you do - then this is something else

[gloomy mango]

I'll test shortly and see with a drink I can place from my inventory

[gloomy mango]

Ah yes, I can consume my own drinks when I place them down in the world

[glossy anchor]

Just to make sure - maybe enable this stuff:
And see if shows up as owned. Or just do tfh ingame

[gloomy mango]

Holy shit, this is fucking awesome @warm saddle. First time playing in a few versions

[warm saddle]

OE TG gang

[sour leaf]

OE TG?

[half summit]

Omelet Eating .. Thieves Guild?

[glossy anchor]

Old Ebonheart Thieves guild, great questline btw

[gloomy mango]

I ||killed them all and joined the Ja Natta||

[sour leaf]

Ohh yeah

[warm saddle]

I have some special stuff in Sun’s dusk for those quests specifically bc I loved them so much

[glossy anchor]

Oooooooh. This is gonna be gud. I've yet to do those quests with Sun's Dusk on current playthrough

[rotund epoch]

Yeah... sometimes when I read comments of some of the people on TR channel I'm afraid that these quests will be hit by redo-mania but hopefully they won't be changed that much. OE-related discussions there can be scary in general. I hope that the city's core (big size, narrow streets, busy Imperial city vibe, tons of content) will be kept in the future and the potential redos will be relatively light and affect mostly stuff around like the Ebon Tower area (which could actually use navigational improvements and some pruning).

[warm saddle]

Yeah not sure what they’re going to do with the quests but I highly encourage ppl to play through them as they are atm

From a quest dev’s perspective they were a nightmare to implement but I’m not sure what would warrant them being changed or anything

But that’s not my problem I just need to know about any landscape edits

[glossy anchor]

Iirc, just drop the ||hazing|| in regards to OE TG

rest they mentioned will stay mostly the same

[rotund epoch]

I think that it won't be anything big in the next update as there was even a disclaimer on the TR website about the TG OE quests not changing that much after some people got worried, lol.

[warm saddle]

Gotcha lol

[glossy anchor]

Cause that ||hazing quest is kinda stupid, and doesn't even have any effect down the line ||

[rotund epoch]

Don't care about it so whatever.

[warm saddle]

That’s true I guess