Sun's Dusk: Needs & Survival

[warm saddle]

But I can do something simple enough myself, like getting tired + thirsty + hungry after spamming jumps and whatnot

[gloomy coyote]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/53772 for backpack purposes

[rotund epoch]

What I'm thinking about is mostly: travelling in extreme weather, combat, spellcasting. These things could accelerate buildup of various needs a lot and it's pretty intuitive. Oh, and some racial profiles as well for weather impact . You could even cancel the increased buildup of needs in extreme weather when PC is near a tent.

[gloomy coyote]

it includes dynamic weight change

[warm saddle]

It would have to be something weird with equipping / unequipping but yeah devilish already has a backpack mod which does this

No need to make an empty cell or anything afaik

[gloomy coyote]

It is for sure not as straightforward as it looks like

[warm saddle]

Definitely not

Devilish did it all in mwscripts haha

[rotund epoch]

[half summit]

thanks that will haunt me forever now 👍

[sour leaf]

Devilish has one?

[rotund epoch]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/54776 yeah

[sour leaf]

Ohhh

I forgot about this

[grizzled flume]

Overcooked but morrowind

[warm saddle]

Que?

[grizzled flume]

https://www.google.com/search?q=overcooked&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

[warm saddle]

Nah I already did BOTW/TOTK for cooking but I have something similar in mind for my barista module

[grizzled flume]

Definitely

The cooking module is the chefs kiss honestly

[rotund epoch]

I wouldn't get attached to polls. The Council said Willpower and the mofos gave us Short Blade

[warm saddle]

** Intelligence

That was the compromise

[rotund epoch]

How?

[warm saddle]

Secondary skills can't be primary attributes

[rotund epoch]

Which is a bigger number? 5 or 3?

[rotund epoch]

I'm joking because I saw SB mentioned in the changelog and it made me laugh

[warm saddle]

There's a skill cap on short blade as it only helps to a certain point

After all, a Head Chef hardly touches a knife

[rotund epoch]

Gotta smash the meat with a hammer

[warm saddle]

Next update will have visually refilling cups

[rough salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-hoodie-emperor-all-of-them-gif-13950795

[rotund epoch]

Yeah, all the stuff sounds cool but I'm not surprised by the dominant choice as it sounds most impactful.

[grizzled flume]

Sound cues for needs

[charred tide]

Turn based combat is something S3ctor already created for OpenMW

[gloomy mango]

What does Dynamic Needs refer to?

[charred tide]

My backpack mod works with an invisible tiny rat using the companion share feature 😄

[rotund epoch]

let's always remember this

[warm saddle]

Do you get dialogue when you interact with it?

[charred tide]

No, you can force the companion share directly without dialogue

but it can try to defend you sometimes 😄

[warm saddle]

Lmao I love this

[charred tide]

It works.

[warm saddle]

I was going to say, I think our API can support it

[charred tide]

I have yet to try the latest SD updates. The backpacks look especially tempting

The Red Tower is pretty much done now, btw

[warm saddle]

All good haha no rush, I wanted to try to make your backpack carry weight overhaul work with it since we use your mesh for one of them

[charred tide]

There's no need. I consider the mod "experimental". I could probably rewrite it from scratch and make it better

[warm saddle]

And I think it’s mad impressive you did corporeal containers in mwscript

[charred tide]

Look at my birds. That's way more impressive 😄

[warm saddle]

Ehh I still think it should be possible. What exactly are the mwscripts attached to with your backpack mod to pull up the inventory?

[rotund epoch]

birds:

[charred tide]

Ah, I think your time is better spend on something else. It's really not necessary. I personally don't even use it myself anymore

[warm saddle]

Gotcha haha no problem then, but still I thought it was impressive

[charred tide]

I could however give you an idea for feature or hooks to support a feature

For example, it could be nice if items in your inventory would be displayed on the backpack mesh. For example, a pickaxe or potions.

I did something like this for my bagpipe

[warm saddle]

Yeah actually I had something in mind for that, the crafting update will allow for tools and other crafting stations and so I want to have them displayed on your character

[charred tide]

I understand this is a hard problem that grows exponentially the more items / backpacks you want to support

[warm saddle]

Pickaxe is a good idea, ownlyme will like that

[charred tide]

but it's food for thought

[warm saddle]

They wouldn’t be attached to the backpack mesh, they’d be their own bones with their own positions

But they’d look like they’re attached ;)

[rough salmon]

Needs will interact with each other and the environment more

[warm saddle]

I asked ownlyme for an API and he decided to do visual refilling instead

[rotund epoch]

priorities

😄

[rough salmon]

productive procrastination

[warm saddle]

He wants me to do my barista sim

[rough salmon]

how the coffe brewing will work?

[warm saddle]

Nah haha the tea module is janky atm and he’s trying to motivate me to fix it

[charred tide]

I want to be a fortune teller and travel from town to town to set up my little magical tent and look into my crystal ball. Npcs from the surrounding cell will come into my tent. I have already the script to dynamically place the tent somewhere. (it will always be positioned perfectly on the ground)

[rough salmon]

like on sand, on fire or with moon and starbucks?

[warm saddle]

Yes

[gloomy mango]

"the cards say you will die if you don't give me 50 drakes"

[warm saddle]

Are fortune tellers a class in OAAB?

[charred tide]

It's just business

[warm saddle]

I feel like I’ve seen the class somewhere

[gloomy mango]

Ah, so you'll get thirstier faster if you're in Narsis as opposed to Nivallis, that sort of thing?

[charred tide]

I don't know but I think it could be fun, especially if there were some random visuals. Perhaps one could even generate scenes in a different cell with the Npc interacting with something, which you could observe as a "video" of sorts. I know this is batshit insane, but I could probably make it happen

[warm saddle]

More related to just temperature but yeah

[warm saddle]

You def could haha

[charred tide]

I also, still have my abandoned "Touch of Madness" project.

[warm saddle]

Eventually ownlyme will have his lua message boxes

[charred tide]

Where you'll encounter tiny mages and other non-existent beings while high on skooma

It's partially developed too with at least one functional quest. It's just collecting dust atm because my priorities changed

Maybe I should have a trash bin mod page for all the semi-developed projects or projects deemed trash

[warm saddle]

A mod that combines all the scrapped mods

[gloomy mango]

Thought you had temp variation already?

[rotund epoch]

Yes, it's there. It's more about stuff like hot temperature making you more thirsty and activities like fighting potentially affecting needs.

[rotund epoch]

Why vials are filled with water? I don't rememer it happening before. Hunterwind uses them for blood extraction.

[half summit]

Yeah is there a way to set/check which containers are corked? I think I noticed my waterskin getting filled and that definitely has a cork

[warm saddle]

Nah I have to hardcode them but I can give you the fix for that

[warm saddle]

No and we’re phasing out of that so that you can refill anything in wells or water

[warm saddle]

[half summit]

did you have something in mind for that?

[warm saddle]

Possibly

There are a few different ways I can go about it and I’m not sure which the best would be

Ideally it would be with the crafting framework (after the update) but I kinda wanted to rework it for people without crafting framework too

Without CF would probably be cursed

[half summit]

its fine to have extra functions in other mods. people can choose to use it or not

[warm saddle]

Oh yeah for sure haha

[rough salmon]

Maybe having a popup UI when interacting with something like vanilla tanning rack

[warm saddle]

There isn’t a tanning rack in vanilla afaik

That’s OAAB I think

[rough salmon]

[half summit]

im pretty sure there is some. the ashlanders use them

hm maybe not..

wierd

[rough salmon]

Right?

[half summit]

yeah

gamer dimentia

[rough salmon]

The BCOM effect

[half summit]

yeah i guess so, got so many damn mods now im losing touch 😅

[tepid sedge]

does someone want to volunteer tuning the min and max fill level offset+scale/blacklist for all of these?
i have a convenient script that lets you just point at them + use keys to tune them and copy the database from the log file afterwards

[half summit]

yeah sure, you have a way to spawn them all in like that?

[tepid sedge]

yep

you can use any misc item to spawn them in front of you

1234 is for scale and vertical offset, 5 is for blacklist, arrow keys for horizontal offset (shouldnt be needed) and 0 (while pointing at one) to output them to your openmw.log

[half summit]

ok ill have a look

[tepid sedge]

the g_drinkwareTuner is in mode 1 (min fill level)
afterwards the log output would be pasted into the vesselOffsets of that file and you can switch the mode if you want or finetune (if in the same mode, they should appear with the same offsets)

thank you very much, glad i dont have to do this again

[half summit]

what is the 002 file? i cant open it

[tepid sedge]

its a split archive, the 002 only needs to be next to the 001

[half summit]

ah gotcha

[tepid sedge]

maybe just do 3-4 first to get familiar with the system or do them in batches in case something goes wrong

you cant save/load or reloadlua while doing this

sec i think it would spawn generated bottles too

[half summit]

this is cool haha

[tepid sedge]

do you see where it outputs the tuned values?

the f10 log is not long enough, so you need to get it from the openmw.log file

[half summit]

oh yeah i see. tidy. ok no worries, it shouldn't take too long

[tepid sedge]

awesome, thank you so much!

[half summit]

yeah all good, glad to help. haha this is what podcasts were made for

[tepid sedge]

btw you can change the scale and move step if you want

local scaleStep = 0.01
local teleportStep = 0.5

[half summit]

sweet

[tepid sedge]

if you only wanna do the minimum fill levels thats ok and already super helpful

i know how exhausting it is

[half summit]

uhh i did it kind of backwards 😅 just realised i did the full levels on min fill mode. is that still useable or should i start over?

[tepid sedge]

dont worry i can easily fix that 🙂

done 😄

[tepid sedge]

sry first screen was buggy 😄

maybe they will also use a random skill level that's assigned to the innkeeper and you'd level their skill instead

[half summit]

hows that?

[tepid sedge]

looks great, thank you very much

[half summit]

all good, not hard but surprisingly long haha its so cool what you guys are doing with those models

[tepid sedge]

does someone wanna do tr or oaab? 😄

i guess we can just leave them at the detected values

how much did you need to change them?

[half summit]

😅 the flat bottomed cups and buckets were ok but all the goblets needed shifting up. a few of them were off horizontally as well..

[tepid sedge]

hmm i see, maybe i can detect these

i just realized we can determine the volume of the vessels much better now that we have these values 😄

[half summit]

nice. well i'm up for doing more but uh.. not all at once haha

[tepid sedge]

haha of course every bit helps

added your new values already 😄

maybe the min fill level could be almost at the bottom of the cup, before it gets narrower

[lunar tiger]

My character hasn't showered in 10 days and I'm still not getting this debuff, bug?

[open fossil]

Hi! I'm having a hard time finding the backpacks and pouches, wich vendors sell them specificaly? I've tried several, merchants and pawnbrokers in different cities but no luck, only 1 backpack in say 10 attemps. Love the mod btw.

[grizzled flume]

One is on the bench in the census office in seyda neen, the trade house in seyda neen

[warm saddle]

They have a relatively low spawn rate at vendors but it depends on how many items they sell which can be changed by mods like WARES MOAR and such but yeah, if you’re looking for a particular one you can pick up the crafting mod and craft them

And thank you ^^

[brazen reef]

Made a Nord character, walked around without a shirt because it’s 35 degrees outside, felt joyful kinship with other naked Nords in the game, generously splashed myself with water from the well

[tepid sedge]

make sure to wear a robe, it improves convection

plus 2 of: Shirt, Skirt and Pants

that gives you -3°

no armor = another -2.5, otherwise light armor or special materials

[brazen reef]

Ah nice, I assumed clothes would make the matters worse w/o special materials. Really cool (no pun intended) that you included robes and light clothing having a positive impact!

[tepid sedge]

thanks, we took inspiration from arabic countries where this kind of clothing is the norm to help against the heat

other methods to reduce heat include:

• seek shade or use an umbrella (or gondolier_helm or shroomhat)
• casting fire resist on yourself
• using frost shield
• cooking with frost salts (not sure if it's in the version on nexus already), only lasts 2 minutes
• depending on whether its <35° wind will also cool you down, otherwise maybe seek wind cover 😄
• racial bonuses
• wetness
• direct rain impact

[brazen reef]

Maybe the robe was mentioned in the survival book too… I will need to reread it, I recalled the water, special material, and magic parts 🙂

[tepid sedge]

let me know if i should list all the armors with special heat resistance, not sure if all of them are listed in the book

we also have a wiki:
https://gitlab.com/lhya/sunsdusk/-/wikis/4-survival-mechanics/Temperature

[grand spire]

Uh, I don't understand how cooking works?

I have like 4L of water in my inventory but it always says "not enough water"

I spent 100 gold trying to buy a homecooked meal only to have to back out again twice cause for some reason you have to pay upfront to have a guy cook with ingredients you may or may not provide 💀

[warm saddle]

Do you have the most up to date version?

[grand spire]

Depends on when that came out 😅

[warm saddle]

And yes cooking at publicans is getting a rework

[grand spire]

Oh the one on the 26th

Yup

[warm saddle]

Did you change the setting for how much water is consumed when cooking?

[grand spire]

Nope

The mod thinks I only have 250ml for some reason though

But I have 3 bottles with 1L each

[warm saddle]

Oh, you don’t have a bowl/plate

[grand spire]

...oh

Why does the error say I don't have enough water 💀

[warm saddle]

It’s in the same function as the water requirements but I thought I added a message box for not having a bowl 🧐

[grand spire]

Ah

[warm saddle]

Oh nvm it’s in the upcoming update

[grand spire]

lmao

But yeah I managed to cook now lmao

Thanks

[warm saddle]

Sure thing

[grand spire]

What does the [136/8] mean?

[warm saddle]

Food/Thirst values

[grand spire]

Ah ok

😭

You should make it so you get +4 all of those when talking to NPCs who are into this shit

[warm saddle]

No

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1168860358623100958/1467169094808899805/discord_2026-01-31_15-10-15.mov?ex=697f6732&is=697e15b2&hm=de9a3545b265e74ba0b0ef81996e455ae05b9bd7d5d67786e18288a00ce9b514&

[grand spire]

Oooh very cool

Also something tells me you're on macOS 🤔

[warm saddle]

Right now yeah I’m on my iPhone, I don’t have 2 monitors and I avoid switching between tabs/windows so it’s easier for me to discord from my phone

[grand spire]

Ah :P

The .mov is what tipped me off

[warm saddle]

But yeah consuming generated items by hovering over them with our onFrame render raycast and the tooltip + input one of the consumables has a static and mwscript attached to it too

[warm saddle]

At this rate the barista sim will be out before dynamic needs sorry not sorry folks

[grand spire]

lmao

Nice

Hmm sleep feels a bit weirdly tuned

I rested for 15 hours and I'm somehow still ~40% tired

[rotund epoch]

It would be good to have a setting to control how much tiredness is lowered for every hour of sleep.

[grand spire]

There isn't?

There is

Don't really get it though

Oh wait no that's the other way around?

But also what's a stage of restedness? 😅

[warm saddle]

Well-rested, rested, awake, drowsy, tired, exhausted

So the setting is how long it takes to go from one stage to another

[rotund epoch]

No. It's just exhaustion rate

[warm saddle]

In a bed or out in the wild ?

[grand spire]

Bed at an inn

[warm saddle]

Do you have a sleep cycle?

[grand spire]

No clue

[rotund epoch]

Bed and sleep cycle disabled. I had this before

[grand spire]

I have Sleep Personality enabled

No idea if that's the right setting though

[warm saddle]

Yeah that’s fine, if you have a sleep cycle and rest outside of it, your sleep isn’t as effective

You can try reloading or restarting or checking logs, is this the first time that’s happened ? Or do you have any mods that affect the Wait menu ?

[grand spire]

I don't know if I have one of those though

Uhhh

[warm saddle]

You don’t, you’d know it

[grand spire]

To be fair it might be cause I slept during the day?

Cause I accidentally spent all night making potions

[warm saddle]

Nah that shouldn’t matter

[grand spire]

(ADHD moment but in the game too lmao)

Huh ok

[warm saddle]

Do you have a mod that changes time when making potions ?

[grand spire]

Yeah

[warm saddle]

There’s a chance that might be why, I’ve heard some people have problems with resting after repairing/making potions
It should be fixed if you restart, a few things could be causing it but I don’t think I can do anything from my end

[rotund epoch]

With sleep cycle disabled, resting 12-14h in a bed with 100% tiredness is often not enough to get the icon to disappear, i.e. it gets to sth around 40%.

[grand spire]

Hm fair

[grand spire]

I don't think I had 100%

[rotund epoch]

I often have 100%

[grand spire]

But yeah I slept 12 more hours just to make sure it goes down to 0 (and it did)

[grand spire]

I have so much trouble managing my carry capacity that I literally couldn't move anymore if I didn't go to sleep when I did lmao

[warm saddle]

Pretty sure that’s normal, sleeping 8 hours at tired brings you up to well rested

Which is about 60% or so

[grand spire]

...huh

Why is 40% well-rested? 😅

[rotund epoch]

50+% is Drowsy

[warm saddle]

It’s approximately 15% per stage, I think well-rested is shorter than the others though

[rotund epoch]

Resting works. It just requires a ridiculous amount of hours to get from 100% to 0-15%.

[grand spire]

Yeah so I don't think it's a bug

It's just oddly tuned 😅

[warm saddle]

No, 0% is well rested and ~60% is tired

[grand spire]

Ahh ok

[warm saddle]

Might have to do with mods that change timescales but it’s hard to say, sleep has several workarounds since the wait menu isn’t dehardcoded and things can get wonky

But in general it wouldn’t surprise me if changing a timescale to 200000 and then resting shortly afterwards causes some problems

[rotund epoch]

No, it's just tuning IMO. No matter how tired you are, requiring more than 12 hours in a bed is weird and there is no separate setting for exhaustion rate lowered per hour (like in Devilish Needs where you could determine how effective resting was).

[warm saddle]

Yeah don’t think I’ve had that problem so I’d have to do some testing to see what could be causing it

[rotund epoch]

I don't think it's a "bug" per se

Exhaustion goes down

[warm saddle]

If restedness isn’t being applied correctly then yeah it could be a bug

But seeing as I haven’t heard that from anyone else and haven’t experienced it myself I’d have to do some investigating

I have a feeling that restedness isn’t being restored for some hours or something

Has this always happened?

[rotund epoch]

Yes

At least since I remember

If you want a quick test, then do this: 1. Ensure you have 100% tiredness and sleep cycle disabled. 2. Rest for 12 hours in a FG bed in Balmora while being a member or in an inn. 3. How much % tiredness you have after resting?

[warm saddle]

They had sleep cycle enabled and had this happen though

[rotund epoch]

I'm just reporting my experience and I have disabled sleep cycle setting

[warm saddle]

There also might be a DR for sleeping more than 10 hours 🧐 I remember talking about implementing something like that and ownlyme might’ve implemented it when he was adding some features to sleep

[rotund epoch]

DR?

[warm saddle]

Diminishing return, or sleeping not being as effective if you’re sleeping for more than 10 hrs

[rotund epoch]

Lol

Well, whatever it is, it would be good to make resting recovery configurable at least. Even sth simple to determine how effective each hour of rest is.

I definitely won't be sleeping 15+ hours, anyway. Waste of time, not worth it. It's just a bit strange how easy it is to bring down hunger or thirst to 0 and how hard it seems to be with tiredness. I'm also not sure what the "intended" effect is supposed to be, i.e. how many hours with no sleep cycle active it's supposed to take to go from 100% to 0-10%.

[warm saddle]

Well, there’s a setting to choose how long it takes to go from one sleep stage to another

[rotund epoch]

Yes

Exhaustion rate

Just as with hunger etc.

[warm saddle]

Yup

[rotund epoch]

I used 8 and 9

IIRC

[warm saddle]

Which means it takes 2 days to go from well-rested to exhausted

[rotund epoch]

But I'm talking about recovery. Not about accumulation.

Accumulation seems fine

Recovery is too slow and I would like to change that but currently no setting for this 🙂

[warm saddle]

Yeah something is buggy then because sleep restores 2x as much tiredness as you gain

[rotund epoch]

Unrelated thing: I don't know what changed in the latest version but I didn't have this issue before - my vials (used by Hunterwind) and my redware teapot and empty cups (used for teabrewing) all get filled with water when I swim and it's mighty annoying. I ended up disabling water refilling for swimming just because of this.

[warm saddle]

The teapot and tea cups being refilled from swimming is working as intended, not sure about the vials though

Don’t think I ever had vial blacklisted 🧐

Oh yeah, I have vial in the whitelist for the skooma vial and the empty vial

[rotund epoch]

Can I disable it just for selected stuff? Frankly, it would be better to have a specific action for refilling like in case of wells or kegs when you have to consciously click on them to use the feature. If that's not on the menu then I would like to block certain items as I don't want to store water there.

[warm saddle]

Yes, there are settings so that you can only refill water by using a well or keg

I can blacklist the vials from hunterwind but in the meantime you can avoid water getting in them by dropping them before refilling

[rotund epoch]

Yes, I know. That's why I mentioned that I had to disable water refilling in water as it became too annoying

[warm saddle]

Then what’s the problem? 😂

[rotund epoch]

I want to keep swimming water refilling on and don't want teapots, tea cups and vials to get refilled that way. What should I do?

[warm saddle]

Edit lines 162-173 of Sun's Dusk\scripts\SunsDusk\global_modules to whichever containers you want or don't want

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/kaden-bear-walk-gif-7458441216561741282

[warm saddle]

They should be around there at least, the version I'm looking at is different from the uploaded version but you're looking for local SUBSTRINGS

I ran the numbers for sleep too and sleeping for 12 hrs with an hours per stage of 8 will restore about 50% tiredness, to need less sleep you’d want to change that setting

I’ll see about changing the formula though but that’s something you can do in the meantime if you want, or carry around hackle-lo

[rotund epoch]

If by "2 days" you mean 48h and by 2x faster you mean 24h of rest, then that's not desirable at all BTW 🙂

[warm saddle]

Thanks for the feedback

[rotund epoch]

Yeah... so it doesn't seem buggy

It's more about the settings

My idea: separate accumulation and revovery settings

[warm saddle]

We’ll see

[rotund epoch]

If it's 1:2 ratio now, then allow changing it to sth else

[warm saddle]

Yeah I’ll need to do some testing since changing sleep restoration might have other effects

Oh yeah, I remember why I made it that high

To work alongside Todd’s health restoration formula

At least for the default setting

For those of you who don’t use https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/57508

[rotund epoch]

I often use restore attributes to remove tiredness debuffs, tank the weakness to disease and move on .

[warm saddle]

Why? 😂

[rotund epoch]

Because resting more is a waste of time

And time means taxes and other needs accumulating

[warm saddle]

Seems more efficient to change hours per stage, disabling debuffs or just disabling sleep

[rotund epoch]

Well, no. I want the debuffs.

[warm saddle]

?

[rotund epoch]

I just deal with them or tank them

But I want to have the mechanic

[warm saddle]

If you have the tea mod, tea and coffee also make you more awake

Other than herbal tea

[rotund epoch]

I will probably change hours per cycle a little bit for now as it will make resting a bit more effective (although it will make exhaustion accumulate faster as well)

[warm saddle]

Yup

[rotund epoch]

BTW Drain Fatigue from Tired/Exhausted doesn't affect max Fatigue but current Fatigue. You get no real debuff as that Fatigue is quickly regened to full value.

[warm saddle]

Yeah I might have to reduce endurance more but not sure, that’s definitely a thing though since health and restoration work similarly

[rotund epoch]

I assume that you were thinking about it in Skyrim terms where mods frequently cap max Fatigue so you can only regen up to a lower max value. It's not how Drain Fatigue functions as ability, though, so yeah, it's probably best to replace it with sth else. I haven't tested negative values for Fortify Fatigue...

BTW Weakness to Blight Disease alongside Common Disease debuffs which the mod often gives would be good

[warm saddle]

No I wasn’t thinking about it in skyrim terms since stamina works entirely differently in that game
Negative max fatigue would work similarly to how drain fatigue is now probably if it works at all, since fortify fatigue also doesn’t raise your max fatigue, just gives you “over fatigue” (like over health)

[warm saddle]

Nope. Weakness to common disease = weakened immune system which is entirely different from weakness to blight which I see as supernatural

There also aren’t any food items I’d want to put more resist blight disease on, for the same reason

[rotund epoch]

A weakened immune system would be more susceptible, I guess. Can't imagine that being exhausted helps with blight protection. Note that I'm not advocating for Resist Blight buffs. Only the debuffs.

[warm saddle]

Being in a blight storm without proper protection will cause a weakness to blight disease along with a chance to catch it, and yeah if I’m adding additional debuffs I’d also add ways to counter them

[rotund epoch]

That's from the wiki. Therefore, I assume that it's supposed to lower max Fatigue. It doesn't, though.

[warm saddle]

That wiki isn’t complete 💀

Like, remotely complete

[rotund epoch]

But it says what it says 😅

[warm saddle]

Yeah, a lot of the information on most of the wiki pages is straight up incorrect

[rotund epoch]

Ok. It was linked by pwn... today, so I used it here

[warm saddle]

Which is why I don’t link it

[warm saddle]

Yeah and idk why he did haha

The first few pages are solid as are the books but yeah it’s uh, a lot to work through

Over 40 pages and even that’s incorrect

The books alone come out to ~4500 words excluding the ones I haven’t added to the esp yet

[rotund epoch]

BTW since there are already meals that can provide cure common or blight disease effects, using resist to common/blight disease effects as alternative effects instead would actually be thematic buffs. Not OP at all - in fact, they would be far weaker than outright curing (which could become rare as food buff).

[warm saddle]

There are already those effects on a few of them and no I don’t want to touch that spreadsheet again

[half summit]

Man cannot live on spreadsheet alone

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’s potentially 7500 cell edits and no formulas, I did them all manually

[half summit]

[warm saddle]

Officially at 3k unique downloads

[sour leaf]

How do backpacks work exactly?

[warm saddle]

You can buy them at general merchants or craft them, they’re misc items and when you equip one you receive a feather effect and depending on the backpack, your firewood, tents and bedrolls will have their weight be offset

[sour leaf]

Oh gotcha

Thank you!

[warm saddle]

How are you liking the cooking ?

[sour leaf]

It's great!

[warm saddle]

Glad you like it 😄

[sour leaf]

Do you have to be a certain level to craft them?

Im only seeing the pouch in the crafting menu

[warm saddle]

I think the requirement is having armorer between like 5-15 but you can also find a satchel in the census and excise office next to where the books are on the shelf

[sour leaf]

Gotcha!

Can I make a small nitpick

[warm saddle]

?

[sour leaf]

The first two Guide To Morrowind books use roman numerals

The third uses "3"

[warm saddle]

Character limit

Although I think I trimmed it and it might be ok now 🧐

[sour leaf]

Ohh gotcha

[sour leaf]

How do the affresh recipes work?

[warm saddle]

Same as the rest of the recipes just with more specific ingredients

[sour leaf]

Do you just need any 3 ingredients that are mentioned in the recipe?

[warm saddle]

I have a .txt around somewhere with the details but the recipes for Affa’s food are all in AFFresh

Didn’t feel like writing additional recipes when they already exist :p

[sour leaf]

Some of the recipes have like 10 ingredients it seems

[warm saddle]

Yeah, it’s any 3 of the ingredients

[sour leaf]

Gotcha. Makes sense

[warm saddle]

Some of the recipes only have 3 or 4 ingredients and some of the recipes have one or two ingredients that are mandatory

[sour leaf]

So like slaughterfish steak has to have slaughterfish. You can't make it with just chokeweed, green lichen, and scamp skin

[warm saddle]

Correct

[sour leaf]

That makes sense but I didn't even consider that haha

[warm saddle]

Also the only slaughterfish ingredients in game are scales

[sour leaf]

Yeah I noticed that

[warm saddle]

I think there are a few things in TD but I tried to avoid that when I could but there are a few recipes that are TD only, couldn’t get around that

[sour leaf]

I think that's fair as long as the mod as a whole doesn't require TD

[warm saddle]

But there are over 40 recipes anyway so I don’t mind making a few TD exclusive if it saves me some work

[sour leaf]

I mean you can also freestyle the cooking anyway so I think it's fine that a couple hardcoded recipes aren't available for non TD users

Especially since I think a vast majority of people are using TD

[warm saddle]

Yeah

[sour leaf]

All of the new cooking changes are awesome btw. I know I kept talking about recipes but requiring a bowl and having the visual items is fantastic

[warm saddle]

Thank you haha and yeah it turned out really well, there are hardcoded recipes it’s just not super strict

[sour leaf]

Oh I know. I just meant I'm liking the recipes and the other cooking changes

[warm saddle]

Thank you 🙏 it was a lot of work but it paid off

[pseudo monolith]

Probably missing something "trivial", but who are "general merchant"? I cannot find anyone selling backpack, even on a new save. The cooking skill also does not appear even with the skill framework, so maybe I have a conflict somewhere 🤔

[half summit]

I found one for sale at arrille's 🤷

[pseudo monolith]

Hummm. Damn, probably a load order issue on my side with modding-openMW TOthen.

For those using TO, where are you loading SD 🤔 ?

[gloomy mango]

Don’t think load order matters for Lua mods?

But right at the bottom

[untold lotus]

fwiw about the latter do you have stats window extender too

i found a backpack at ra'virr's after a few tries

[pseudo monolith]

I think it was a load order problem. I can find some now, after loading at the end.

Thanks!

[pseudo monolith]

Yes I do.

[half summit]

I found loading SD earlier in my load order helped with a few issues

[pseudo monolith]

Can I ask you where exactly you load it then :)?

Hum. I think I have another problem. Now I again don't have backpack 😲 . Probably doing something stupid 😅

[rotund epoch]

did you equip it? 😄

[pseudo monolith]

I meant merchants are not selling them 🙂

[rough salmon]

Pawnbrokers

Traders which sell a bit of everything

[tepid sedge]

you can craft your favorite backpack in the color of your choice with crafting framework 😉

[pseudo monolith]

This is probably what I'll do 😅 . Sometimes the backpacks are available, sometimes they are not 🤷

[tepid sedge]

they have a random chance of spawning at merchants

[pseudo monolith]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[untold lotus]

caught

[half summit]

Oops, that was from testing

[half summit]

It's not an SD issue it's my test file in the BoV module I think

[untold lotus]

ah mb, I assumed a bit

[grand spire]

Boint of View

[half summit]

fixed in BoV_2.5

[warm saddle]

If you want to ori over the cauldron I can blacklist it 🧐 or maybe you shouldn’t be able to cook if you’re swimming ?

But idk I’ve been to grills on a pool

[half summit]

maybe it should reduce the water requirement

[rotund epoch]

Vivec didn't teach the Dunmer water-breathing for nothing

you never know when the next Akaviri invasion arrives and the province has to be flooded again

[rough salmon]

He taught them not to use it

[rotund epoch]

yes, that's why NPCs never use it

in-game

[silent ether]

So, when I attempt to rest in the beds in Old Ebonheart Fighters Guild, I'm not getting my sleep stages recovered, the log shows an error "attempt to compare number with nil" in function getBedRank.

[warm saddle]

TR has a new mwscripts they put on those beds then

I can give you the fix here in a few or you can place a bedroll down and rest that way, or eat hackle-lo or tea/coffee if you have the tea mod

[silent ether]

Yeah, if it's something I can fix on my end, that would be cool. Otherwise, I can install the tea / coffee mod and try to get some ingredients up for that. I'll rp that the Fighter's Guild has shitty beds.

[half summit]

yeah it definitely smells like ass in there

[silent ether]

So, I just did some extra digging, because I was curious. The error was being thrown on line 41 of your script, which checks for faction rank. I loaded Tamriel Rebuilt into the Construction Set and the problem was that the beds in the fighter's guild didn't have a Global Variable/Rank associated with them. When I set the rank to Associate (the lowest one), the problem cleared up. I apologize for reporting a bug to you that wasn't your mod's fault.

[untold lotus]

thanks, will update soon!

[untold lotus]

I could prob find and ori the cauldron if it helps, sure, but yeah i was more thinking about the underwater cooking

[warm saddle]

Oh shit sorry I never got back to you on this and yeah that's good to know, I'll improve that bit since there might be other situations of that happening. That's kinda wild though

[silent ether]

No worries. It was fun figuring out what the issue was.

[warm saddle]

Yeah that's definitely a new one ^^; not having sleep restored because the beds don't have a faction rank is definitely a

[untold lotus]

gottem

[warm saddle]

Trying to find the consensus for what sujamma is and I found this absolute banger

[half summit]

yeah bang on

[warm saddle]

Tempted to turn sujamma into rakija now

[half summit]

haha that would rattle some cages

"oh no! he's going full arthmoor!"

[warm saddle]

Hahaha well it'll be ... probably red I think ? but there will be an option to dillute it with water

[half summit]

oh you mean like craft it?

[warm saddle]

no

You know that handy little refill button you have for the sauna ?

Yeah

I'm putting that bad boy to use

[half summit]

oh yeah baby lets go

[warm saddle]

Tea, sujamma (rakija) and plenty more

But those are the ones I know of for now

[half summit]

so sick

[rotund epoch]

"The local Dunmer liquor, sujamma, is extremely potent, and indulgence results in elevated spirits and diminished mental faculties. Has a kick like a guar -- very strong, and just as stupid." - well,this sounds like vodka... while Mazte is Bud 🤡

[warm saddle]

Yeah it's giving me vodka, UESP has it listed as rum though

[rotund epoch]

I wouldn't call rum potent

[warm saddle]

But Mazte or Greef give me something more like vodka 🧐 and sujamma always felt harder

[half summit]

yeah its the hard stuff for sure

the kind of stuff that doesnt have a recipe

you just have to know a guy

[rotund epoch]

Mazte is beer

MW dialogue

"Mazte is a local beer brewed from fermented saltrice. Cheap, plentiful, and invigorating, this beverage is very popular, despite its dulling effect of wit and judgement. For the price, folks are willing to feel dumb and weak-willed, so long as they feel really strong."

Note that UESP has everything

No MW tag = dubious

Sorry @half summit , it's not about you

"The native comberry brandy is locally called greef. Greef is a strong stimulant, but like all intoxicants, it tends to impair physical coordination. That is, it makes you feel real strong, but makes you clumsy."

So we have beer, brandy, vodka

[warm saddle]

Flin is whiskey

[rotund epoch]

Foreign stuff

[warm saddle]

But what colour 🧐

[half summit]

yellow

[warm saddle]

Greef it is

I will have rakija in my morrowind

[half summit]

hahah thats acceptable

[rotund epoch]

I like rakija

although I don't drink it often

more of a whiskey guy

[warm saddle]

I like ouzo and arak but haven't tried rakija tbf, I just know that they're similar in principle

[rotund epoch]

it's like... 60%

sth like that

I've also drunk 70% "variants"

[half summit]

yeah i had it a few times, its similar but crazy strong. easy to drink too much especially with water, which is how the old heads did it

[rotund epoch]

tbh I prefer standard 40%

60-70% stuff tastes a bit like moonshine

[warm saddle]

Ouzo is good with mint and lemon

[rotund epoch]

and the closer it gets to moonshine, the worse it becomes

[half summit]

40% is more than enough usually but 60%+ it starts to become a different kind of buzz haha

absinthe is always an interesting time

even if your not drinking it, just being around people who are can get weird 😅

[rotund epoch]

oh, that's alcohol in general

[half summit]

true

[rotund epoch]

IMO it's better to be drinking as well. It's annoying when you are the only sober person in the group as drunk people behave in their own ways and talking with them is frustrating unless you are not sober yourself

[half summit]

oh hell yeah, being sober around drunk almost always sucks. but also if your drunk and your around absinthe heads, things can extra weird

[rotund epoch]

when somebody starts tellling the same story the third time...

[half summit]

fr

[rotund epoch]

ffs

[rapid valve]

I know it's probably a big ask but have you considered making food and drinks not function like alchemy potions ever? So you don't have the magic effects showing when consume them

[warm saddle]

Yes with #1467920462767063232

Or you mean like receiving magic effects ?

[rapid valve]

I mean in videos I've seen from you magic vfx spawn around player after drinking/eating

So makes it feel like a potion

[warm saddle]

Yeah I've wanted to change the eating sound but haven't decided on the VFX

But yeah with the inventory extender I'd like to move in a direction to making our food more like Skyrim's food but it's also tricky because you can get 8+ magic effects on them

So idk

We're tackling bigger fish rn haha

[rapid valve]

Yeah it would be a pain

[warm saddle]

Nothing worse than the shit we've already done haha

[rapid valve]

Well I was thinking ideal solution would be for nearby vfx to be exposed to lua so can just disable them because otherwise you have to make them items that aren't actually potions but function like them when drag and drop on your character and that might have other drawbacks if they are "fake" consumable items.

[warm saddle]

Yeah nah i ain't doing that xD if we removed the VFX and replaced them with something else it would be a different way

[warm saddle]

Nvm I’ve been informed that it’s very easy to do but nah I like the magic vfx

[rapid valve]

Which one is easy to do? If it's detecting and disabling nearby vfx I'm curious because I thought it was impossible

[warm saddle]

We’d just intercept the consume event haha

[rapid valve]

What part of lua api allows that? I didn't know that was a thing. Sounds cool

[warm saddle]

I.ItemUsage in global

I.ItemUsage.addHandlerForType(types.Potion, function(item, actor)
   return false
end)``` if you’re looking for specifics

[rapid valve]

Ty!

[warm saddle]

Wiki is progressing got most of the needs pages done today but it’s a lot

[hearty knot]

@warm saddle Oh hey. If you need information about beverages, I've got this laying around 😄

I researched the drinks of PTR and this includes everything I was able to find

[warm saddle]

Word thank youuuu

[grizzled flume]

I do through steam with my ps5 controller makes life a ton easier

[warm saddle]

Yeah damn I didn't realise that they were so popular, since I did gamepad support for the bathing and tea baby UIs I was gonna try to convince ownlyme to add it to the cooking UI

[grizzled flume]

yeaaa that'd be nice dpad controls

[warm saddle]

Still surprised there are a lot of ppl using gamepads 0.o

Controller support for cooking UI will be added

[stable bronze]

It's because the new gamepad UI

[rotund epoch]

Toys

[gloomy mango]

Same. I wouldn't have been surprirsed if there was a 1-9 split

[warm saddle]

Suspicious water, sujamma, stoneflower tea, heather tea, and flin

[rough salmon]

this is straight up soup xD

from herb tea I would expect something more green tea color

[warm saddle]

A translucent static isn’t easy but is milk not put in tea ? 🧐

[rough salmon]

uhhhhhhh

[warm saddle]

Well there are several herb teas haha

[rough salmon]

that's british shenanigans

[rapid valve]

We don't put it in herbal tea either

[rough salmon]

(effectively blasphemy)

[warm saddle]

Uh oh

[rapid valve]

But this is Morrowind

Maybe it's

[warm saddle]

Guar milk and Heather tea sounds nice though

[rough salmon]

iirc some mod was adding guar milk

[rapid valve]

Shalk wax or something

[rough salmon]

maybe even OAAB

[warm saddle]

OOAB

If yall can find a translucent static / texture I’m all for it but this is the best we could do xD

[rapid valve]

Ever notice how Japan and Britain are at exact opposite ends of world and both considered best at tea?

🤯

[rough salmon]

Asian love their tea and tea ceremonies
or at least were loving it in the past

probably partially thanks to British too

[rapid valve]

I'm pretty sure they had tea thousands of years before us

[rough salmon]

as you can see, I didn't care about history in school

[warm saddle]

But yeah lavender (or most floral tea but it depends tbh?) with a little honey and milk in it is nice, since idfk of any translucent statics that’s what I’m going with to distinguish it a little

It might change in the future but we’ll see, this was annoying enough 💀

[brazen reef]

I think the flowers floating on the surface are a really nice touch

[warm saddle]

Thank you ^^

[warm saddle]

The tent building for the next update is cool asf too, it turned out a lot better than what I originally had in mind

[gloomy mango]

Builders Tea is the best drink in the world.

[warm saddle]

?? What is that :o

[gloomy mango]

God bless the

[gloomy mango]

Just a slang term for bog standard tea with a bit of milk and a sugar

[warm saddle]

The only propa cuppa

[gloomy mango]

Tetley is the satans piss of tea. Will never understand why it was so popular in the 80s - 00s

[warm saddle]

Hard agree

[half summit]

there's a translucent water static in korana's resources, for making the baths

[warm saddle]

Niceee

[half summit]

everyones secretly drinking bathwater

[warm saddle]

We saw that one already but it might come in handy, it’s just an alpha property but we were looking for something spicier

[half summit]

fair

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme managed to do shader and animations for the liquids when they’re in cups

[half summit]

absolute madlad

i like the consume key

[warm saddle]

Yeah, you can drink and eat stuff straight from their containers now (enable/disable in settings)

[half summit]

nice

i instinctively tried to do that when i first ate from a plate

[warm saddle]

Nice haha, good to know that this will be intuitive then

[half summit]

ive never played as vampire/werewolf, do they get anyhting like that? if not, when

as in "consume"

[warm saddle]

It would be cool to do something with blood potions I suppose, for werewolves idk since they should mostly be eating raw meat

I just can’t think of anything that vampires would be able to cook with I guess

[half summit]

i mean straight from the neck

[warm saddle]

Oh

[half summit]

just in general

[warm saddle]

Whenever someone wants to do it I guess

Devilish can steal my tooltip for his devilish vampire if he wants

Although mwscript integration with openmw lua is very cursed

[half summit]

yeah no worries, i was just curious, like i said i tend not to go down those roads

i guess tes vampires just use a lot of drain health magic anyway

[charred tide]

Anyone with some lua skills could probably create a new lua only vampire mod that would become the new standard. I'm just not currently interested in vampirism. I'm more interested in the Red Mountain and Sixth House atm, when I have time off work.

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure and understandable, I’m big hyped to see what you end up doing with it

[charred tide]

Basically, I'm just editing the Rocky Red Mountain crown and will put the Dagoth Ur facility outside of the crater (why is it in there?)

[warm saddle]

Underneath the crater

Nah yeah understandable I also thought that was kinda weird

[charred tide]

Well, yeah. At least the entrance shouldn't be where the lava comes out

[warm saddle]

Well, I guess it’s the Dwemer HQ but you’d think it would have a facelift or something after thousands of years considering it’s still inhabited

But that’s what you’re here for 😄

[half summit]

Their too busy working out

[charred tide]

That's also something I was thinking about

The Sixth House would be training their bodies and perhaps Hand to Hand combat (maybe to infect important people for their cause?)

They clearly like to present their bodies more than other factions

[half summit]

You pointed out they have double strength as their factions favored attributes. Most likely a developer oversight in reality but i think it's also a great insight into their personality

[charred tide]

Yes, exactly. I'd love walking into a room and seeing ash ghouls doing pushups or them fighting / wrestling

or at least seeing pushups in the fighter guilds

[half summit]

It would give so much character

[charred tide]

Animations would go a long way to "make Morrowind come alive"

but it's one of the more difficult aspects of Morrowind modding

[half summit]

Yeah there was some interesting developments in that recently

[warm saddle]

Yeah I was just telling people that the animation modders are all active in Skyrim haha

[gloomy mango]

Ewww

[rapid valve]

it's the figurines

I have them all

actually maybe I don't have the woman

[subtle blade]

hello i have a question, what are the different kinds of backpacks and how much feather do they each give?

also would it be possible to add smoking in the game since there are some cigars and pipes in tamriel data

[rapid valve]

Smoking would be cool

[subtle blade]

there is an OAAB item called flint and steel that could work with it i assume

[rapid valve]

I believe there is skoomasthesia port to openmw but I'd like more traditional LOTResque pipes/not skooma

[subtle blade]

youd need a secondary fire item to make it work

yea thats what i thought too

[rapid valve]

yeah more Gandalf/Bilbo Baggins than crackhead

It's definitely doable

we can do animations etc

[subtle blade]

Don't think it even needs animations or anything like that

I saw an item called siyat cigar in tr and thought it would be nice in a needs mod

Then the pipes

[rapid valve]

smoke rings would be cool though

[subtle blade]

Also while not an exploit I think moon sugar could do with a nerf

I find myself raiding dungeons just so I can eat all the moon sugar so I don't have to sleep

[half summit]

Devilish Skooma will nerf your sugar habit pretty hard

Also there is a smokable Hackle-lo pipe mod that is compatible with SD

[tepid sedge]

should this be the one-time tent now?
for the reusable one you'll need crafting framework though

Select multiple 😄

[brazen reef]

Eh I would say this is definitely a game limitation/lack of desire to do feeding anims, since the books and dialogues always reference blood consumption, fangs etc and almost never discuss drain health magic

[brazen reef]

I want to do it, I just also don’t have the skills for it so for now I’m quietly tinkering with my own install with nothing worth publishing

[half summit]

That's how it starts soon you will feel the power of the dark side

[half summit]

Yeah true, I always liked the Legacy of Kain blood drinking which I'm pretty sure was due to the same limitations but an overall more interesting implementation

[gloomy mango]

My current char is a crime boss in the ja natta syndicate

Uses one of the TD faces so he’s always just smoking a dart lol

[rough salmon]

badass

[rough salmon]

I seem to be unable to bath in here

and here too

[brazen reef]

It was an interesting solution. ESO also used the same telekinetic blood feeding before the rework when they added killmove feeding animations

Although I’m really surprised that so few people were inspired by VtM: Bloodlines’s feeding to use it in their own games. It is harder than most (all?) alternatives I guess

A question I had about SD’s upcoming update is whether the emptied dish/cup stays in place after the contents are eaten or if it gets moved to the inventory automatically

Very excited about the new features either way 🙂

[subtle blade]

i think SD can use a lot of the clutter items from TR and OAAB

like a sponge

maybe adding a buff to cleanliness or a minor cleanliness item

[warm saddle]

There are 14 different backpacks and satchels total, each gives a feather buff and offsets tents + firewood based on quality (easiest way to see quality is from gold value)

[warm saddle]

There’s already a mod for that https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/56939

[subtle blade]

Yea I saw this mod but it doesn't really add a need for it

[warm saddle]

And yes it’s supported, smoking hackle-lo wakes you up a bit

[subtle blade]

Although I wouldn't want to explicitly add smoking as a need

[warm saddle]

Hahaha like an addiction mechanic ?

[subtle blade]

Kind of

Although the smoking waking you up is the kind of functionality I'd look for

Only I see the cigars more than the pipes

[warm saddle]

Well, I wasn’t planning on doing that anytime in the future but some future camping updates (much further down the line) might allow for it

But if someone wanted to create a module for it or something that would be cool I guess haha

[subtle blade]

What are the planned future updates speaking of?

I really enjoy the mod so far haha

[warm saddle]

Well the next immediate updates will be related to camping + cooking + quality of life stuff working up to 1.8 which will be dynamic needs

“Dynamic needs” is something people around here have coined that integrates needs better with each other and gives more actions to them, like hot weather making you thirsty and things like that

There will also be some magic, a survival skill and much more crafting by the time 1.8 rolls around

[warm saddle]

You can change it in the .txt in the SD_food_and_drinks\ folder if you want but that’s definitely more on the player than anything 😅

[warm saddle]

Thought I grabbed those but maybe not, but fyi I don’t do keyword searches for bathing like the rest of the objects and instead hardcode them
Since the bathing UI locks the camera, I’m conservative with the statics I attach them to

[warm saddle]

Inventory automatically but that might change, we’ll see

[half summit]

i was thinking of trying to add that cigar as a wearable with the vfx trick. just haven't had time. TD adds tobacco too, it would be cool to do a small addiction mod

[warm saddle]

That would be cool haha, we definitely have the API for it although some of the things related to habits and whatnot will be changing

Not in a noticeable way from the player’s end, mostly from ours (less bug reports)

[half summit]

nice

yeah there's a space for some depth to stimulants gameplay

and just more fun with ragged strung out nerevarine

i think my character has bugged out or he just can't kick his mushroom habit bit he seems to have a permanent -60 to int and -40 personality unless he's tripping

[warm saddle]

Speaking of this, daily reminder that GameTime is fucked and that if you do anything that remotely changes or touches time you will encounter bugs #development-lua message

[astral mauve]

assumeru

The way we handle time is incorrect in general. Morrowind.exe only rolls over the day/month/year at midnight and not when any of the the relevant globals changes. It should be doable to dehardcode time by replacing usages of the globals in C++ with dedicated values and then having a Lua script set both the globals and the values used by the engine. That way we can also support Oblivion's globals (that have different names) because the globals are no longer the source of truth

Linked by @​hyacinth2199 from #development-lua · Jan 24, 2026, 10:37 AM

[warm saddle]

8 of the 10 bug reports I’ve gotten in the last day have been related to this and god it’s irritated me

We’re moving to simulation time

[half summit]

what bugs does it cause?

for SD i mean

[subtle blade]

id propose some more active effects on needs personally

like tiredness reducing fatigue

if food is at 0 it increases 1 point of fatigue per second

while tiredness does not really do anything at 100%

i think a 5 point fatigue reduce would be more appropriate

[half summit]

that would be what "dynamic needs" would be about

[subtle blade]

i suppose so i thought the description of dynamic needs was more of a connection between different needs

and mechanics

[half summit]

maybe im misundrstanding

always a possibility

[subtle blade]

i mostly mean that at low food percentages you get a constant fatigue regeneration while for sleep you dont get the equivelant fatigue degeneration (dont have a sleepy character atm)

[warm saddle]

Right now, changing the timescale to something astronomical temporarily absolutely fucks with any of the needs, especially temperature, because we didn’t account for the timescale ever being 0

[subtle blade]

is that the bug that makes your character freeze

[warm saddle]

Yes, that’s because well-fed is at 0% and starving is at 100%

[subtle blade]

no no i mean that for 100% tiredness there is no fatigue reduction per second

[warm saddle]

Correct

That’s because the different needs have different magic effects on them

[subtle blade]

well yes but wouldnt it be appropriate if you just ran out of fatigue due to being awake for 2 days

this is just a minor debuff

[warm saddle]

Yes but in Todd’s engine that means not being able to move, which is what happens when stamina hits 0

You can increase the debuff in the settings

[half summit]

yeah its pretty extreme

if you could tap spacbar to crawl slowly

[subtle blade]

i guess the issue would be that while in knocked down state you cannot sleep if in a town or it would get very annoying in general

[warm saddle]

Correct

xD

[subtle blade]

i think my biggest issue so far with sleep is that traveling services count as sleep in the actual game but not for the mod

you regenerate health fatigue and magicka but not sleep

[warm saddle]

Your tiredness goes down at a slower rate when traveling, so your tiredness is less than it would be than if you were awake

If you’re going on a long journey (like to Cyrodiil or Skyrim) your tiredness will be at Rested when you arrive as well

[half summit]

public transport be like

[subtle blade]

havent been there yet by boat

tbh

[warm saddle]

Oh but yeah as far as future updates go, expect more crafting in the future

I wasn’t planning on going the crafting route since it’s not a dependency (and won’t be) but since the mod curator of POTI added Crafting Framework to that modpack, I definitely want to give them more features related to that

We’ll be working on a lot more crafting things in general too big hype

To start off, one of the next few updates will let you make crafting station(s) for your camp

[surreal citrus]

Out of curiousity: would this mod go at the end of a list of gameplay mods?

[warm saddle]

Yeah that would be a good idea, load order doesn't matter unless you have stat's window extender and skill framework which are generally high in the load order

[gloomy coyote]

Dunno if you might be interested in but I'd think I'll drop it here, found by random chance
http://jmk.drag.net.au/more/mozza/PlugIns.html
Morrowind Mesh Resource Pack 1
http://jmk.drag.net.au/more/mozza/ResourcePack1Samples.jpg
"20 mostly new meshes by me to use in your own plug-ins. The textures are all from ones in the game, but you may change them.

1. Hook mounted plant pot
2. Cupcake
3. Frying pan from Discoveries & Adventures
4. Jewellery box
5. Crane
6. (Smoking) pipe
7. Squeeze bulb perfume sprayer
8. Stove
9. Latrine
10. Muffin
11. Room corner shelves
12. Glass display
13. Scrubbing brush
14. Shoe / boot scraper
15. Tiered cake stand (from Morrowind Riches)
16. Water pump
17. Rake
18. Hand cart
19. Cooking pot
20. Foot stool"

Some things might be in scope of SD

Also next to it on the site 20 new plant pots if there is farming/planting planned

[warm saddle]

Yeah damn that sounds lit

[gloomy coyote]

And there's lots of other things there

[warm saddle]

Thank you

[gloomy coyote]

meshes and textures for it especially

No problem mate, this is like a gold mine from what I'm seeing on that site

and the owner is okay with all of this being used from what I've read
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/54284?tab=posts
"15 Mar 2024, 9:55PM
Just to let you know, JMK uses a combination of his own website and DeviantArt to host all of his mods and has for years.
JMK's Site
JMK's Morrowind Mod DeviantArt Page

He says on his page that uploading the mod here is okay, but he recommends including a link to his site and would appreciate being told his mod is here.
"If you wish to upload my plug-ins to other Morrowind related sites, you may do so, so long as the archives aren’t changed. It would also be recommended to include a link to this page, so that potential users can check if anything’s been patched. If you could let me know you’ve also uploaded them elsewhere, that would be good too."

[warm saddle]

Nvm this changelog is large enough to be 1.8

[stable bronze]

I like the tent from the camping gear mod better because it's also a shelter from the rain

[warm saddle]

New tent mechanics craft sticks, rope and a tarp to make a permanent tent but in Morrowind, even breaking camp is a diceroll ...

[half summit]

Thrice blessed

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/mortal-kombat-gif-13069212326083661143

Achievement unlocked: defeated a tent

[warm saddle]

A healthbar would be funny

[rotund epoch]

if your skill is 5, then you would only win if the tent didn't fight back

[gloomy mango]

Never thought I’d die enjoy side by side with a needs mod

SD and its consequences have been a blessing for my load order

[warm saddle]

Many thanks and blessings 🙏

[half summit]

Playing with Pretty Loot I notice my water gets removed when I enter dialogue and then added back. Is that normal behavior?

[warm saddle]

Openmw feature #development-lua message

[astral mauve]

pwn90

removing an item from an npc removes similar items from the player (maybe only if the item is restocking)

Linked by @​hyacinth2199 from #development-lua · Feb 7, 2026, 7:04 AM

[half summit]

Fair enough haha, no worries

[warm saddle]

Yeah any lua mod adding any items to merchants will do that if the player also has those items in their inventory

So that mod is great for debugging and stuff actually

[half summit]

It's a cool mod

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure, it's great

[half summit]

anything QL related atm is gold. I'm so happy I started using it

[warm saddle]

Same haha I love it

Changelog v1.8

Features and Changes

NEW Camping Overhaul

• Build PERMANENT tents by stacking parts (similarly to firewood): sticks, rope, a tarp and a bedroll
• Unique meshes at each stage so you can watch as you build up your tent
• Destroy or dismantle tents by attacking them to downgrade one stage at a time
• Components have a chance to break when dismantling based on your endurance
• Crafting recipes added for tent parts
• Flawless camp breaking add your sturdy tent back into your inventory
• Temporary tents remain the same for those who don't have crafting
  NEW Cooking and Publicans
• Publicans now cook with gold instead of water and clutter and now have their own visible cooking skill
• Cooking at a publican uses their skill which levels instead of yours (also a setting)
• Publicans now use their ingredients first
• Homecooked meal is placed directly in front of you and you can eat straight from the plate with a new tooltip + interaction
• Added a setting to choose between using the publican's cooking skill or just borrowing their kitchen
• Clicking the dialogue topic immediately opens the cooking UI
• Added controller support for the cooking UI
• Rebalanced formulas for default cooking settings
• Meal preview now shows warmth added or subtracted when eaten
• Skill Framework is used as a backup for your cooking skill in case your savedata gets lost

NEW Tooltips (experimental)

• If you have Ralts' Inventory Extender, custom tooltips have been added to relevant items and clutter
• Armor and clothing: view approximate heat resistance, cold resistance, and extreme temperature immunities
• Potions: Thirst value restored, type of liquid (water, tea, sujamma, flin), bug musk and perfumes for bathing
• Food (currently in potions column): Hunger and thirst values restored, some magic effects
• Ingredients: Hunger, thirst, and awake values are displayed and balanced similarly to Skyrim's survival mode
  • Green pact, toxic, raw meat, item type (mushrooms, greens, etc) can also be seen
• Ingredients (continued): Soaps have magic effects on them as well
• Books: Recipes show if they are Read (known), books have flavour tooltip text
• Misc Items: Camping supplies, firewood, containers for liquids, bowls and plates for food,
  tea pots and kettles for tea, soap, cloth, and lights and torches for temperature/warmth
• Repair tools have tooltips to indicate crafting
  Liquids
• New spawned drinks now have visible liquid in them
• Freshly brewed tea is steaming
• Liquids are distinct and show when they are full, empty, and everything in between
  Books
• Added more recipes notes that aren't covered by Affa's
• Added new book for bathing
• Edited cookbook chapters: The Cooking Fire, On Fine Dining, The Art of Combination, Magical Properties
  UI
• Added tooltip for interacting with and consuming food and drinks when in the overworld
• Blacklisted soap from being eaten (restoring hunger values)
• Added attack tooltip for bedroll and tent
• Added messageboxes for food poisoning and diseases
  Other
• Added setting for changing restedness restored while sleeping
• Sun's Dusk now uses at least 30% less memory
• Renamed player modules to start with p_ for consistency
• Improved documentation
• Drums and bongos are now interactive
• Added API for setting the temperature of a cell, the cell type info, and ref IDs

Fixes

• Argonians no longer receive debuffs when wet
• Fixed backpack showing in first person or disappearing when travelling/waiting
• Fixed extreme temperatures bugs
• Fixed tea UI and tooltip
• Closing the dialogue window with an NPC now immediately converts ingredient camping items to misc items
• Removed value brackets from stew names
• Fixed secondspassed timing bugs
• Open bottles placed on their side no longer get randomly filled

Attached is the beta for the update, it's finished but I don't want to post it on nexus until Ralts uploads the Inventory Extender or feels like he's in a good place with it
Feedback on anything and everything is welcome (especially with the tooltips), I've only seen them on vanilla and with kezyma's UI so idk what they look like with other UIs so feel free to send screenshots and stuff

[half summit]

Can we get the changelog in audiobook?

[warm saddle]

No but I’ve thought about making audiobooks of the books 👀

[half summit]

That would be lush

that's a hell of an update can't wait to try it. How did you fix the backpack in first person bug? I also have that happening with my weapon since ages ago, I thought it might be the body awareness mod

[half summit]

Have you messed around with voicegen before? I'm curious to try it for an idea I have. Iirc I need to pay to use external voice clips for training

[warm saddle]

We simply don’t apply the backpack VFX in first person

lastCameraMode = camera.getMode()
if lastCameraMode ~= camera.MODE.FirstPerson then refreshVfx()```
And yeah I believe that would be weapon sheathing, might be full body awareness too

[warm saddle]

No but a few people in the server have, I’m not interested in paying or anything so I’d try to do something like eddy did for the TD audiobooks

[half summit]

Yeah his are good, seems much more natural than VoV. Maybe that's to do with the written style of books though 🤔

[gloomy mango]

Drums and bongos are now interactive?

[warm saddle]

Yup haha they have tooltips and sounds

[gloomy mango]

Lmao

Playing bongos too much makes you hungrier faster as you’re burning calories

[warm saddle]

Oh I forgot to add, I added some of Katya’s mods to the database (until I get the wiki completely updated 💀) so that Fire Fern Quarters in Ancestral Refuge, Stoneflower Tradepost’s Bath House, and Indoril Mansion have baths and other features

[stable bronze]

I have a nifty looking backpack, and I don't even know what it does

[stable bronze]

@warm saddle all of the SD scripts except the UI are empty of settings since updating to v1.7.3

[stable bronze]

nvm, restarting the engine fixed it

[warm saddle]

Hope you like the cooking UI

[stable bronze]

it's great

not too wild about plates being required for each meal though, you know how long it took me to find more than 2 plates?

[warm saddle]

Publicans are an option if you don’t have a plate or bowl

[stable bronze]

maybe it was the same engine shenanigans, but the publican in Caldera would only let me cook 2 meals at a time, one for each plate, then I randomly found more plates at the general goods store in Caldera and I was still limited to two meals at a time

no meals from SD in the barter inventory

[warm saddle]

With the update, a bowl or plate aren’t required when cooking at a publican though? They give one to you

[stable bronze]

maybe it was the same randomness that emptied the SD scripts and broke recall

[warm saddle]

Did you update while you were in the game just by overwriting your files and reloading lua?

[stable bronze]

no, I never overwrite, and it was a brand new character

[warm saddle]

Oh, you’re on the version that’s on nexus. I posted a more recent update here for people to test out if they wanted

[stable bronze]

every single version I've used sits in its own folder

[warm saddle]

Here

[stable bronze]

that wash basin is a godsend though, where has this thing been all my life?

[sour leaf]

WE dont deserve you holy shit

[half summit]

getting served a steaming bowl of stew at the tavern was peak

[rough salmon]

FUCK YEAAAH

Readability improvement with tooltips is huge, since it was really overwhelming keeping track of everything

[warm saddle]

Fr fr it makes a huge difference, it felt sad looking in my inventory knowing that there’s so much code and mechanics related to different items but no indication in game other than dropping things into the world
But yeah they’re note finalised and I’m not super attached to their formatting or wording overall so if you have any feedback feel free to let me know

[tepid sedge]

no bug reports yet? Oo

[rotund epoch]

Hungry for more bug reports?

[rough salmon]

1.8 wasn't released on Nexus yet

[warm saddle]

Yeah we be waiting

Probably will soon though, the mod description and wiki are getting an overhaul

[rotund epoch]

hopefully no Dragon Breaks will happen in the meantime

[hearty knot]

Still, no bug reports? Bro fell off

[warm saddle]

We had to refactor a lot of our code as bug fixes for other ppl’s mods and are worried that this ended up causing bugs in ours

[stable bronze]

"does it compile?" "ship it"

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-csi-miami-glasses-sunglasses-horatio-caine-gif-14033607

[grizzled flume]

Hey I haven’t updated to the version uploaded on here, should I wait for the nexus update or the one from here is fine?

[warm saddle]

One from here, it’s the same as what’ll be on nexus haha

[grizzled flume]

Cool

[warm saddle]

Well, depending on what Ralts wants to do with Inventory Extender. I don’t want to upload a file on nexus that has features for a mod that isn’t out yet haha

[vernal marsh]

If it's not a hard requirement I think you should go for it

[warm saddle]

Yeah we’ll see, I’m working on documentation which is … extensive

In the version here I added some statics from Katya’s mods mostly for convenience but I’d want her to be able to choose what she wants instead

[rough salmon]

I can't remember, did you share archive with tooltips for Inventory Extender?

[warm saddle]

What do you mean ?

[rough salmon]

The SD integration with Inventory Extender

Are they merged in SD 1.8 beta, uploaded somewhere as an archive or you didn't upload them anywhere yet?

I vividly remember you sending something into IE thread, but I can't find anything 🫠

[warm saddle]

Yup

They can be removed or deleted at any time, all the tooltips are a separate module

[half summit]

The liquids are a bit bright, they almost glow in the shadows with my setup. the values could be tweaked a bit darker in the nifs maybe

[rough salmon]

Feels like yet another Morrowind Remaster
Indescribably good

[warm saddle]

Do you have PBR?

[rotund epoch]

don't you all find playing Morrowind in 2026 cringe? 🤡

[rough salmon]

who cares about playing it?

i'm modding it

[half summit]

Yeah I'm using wareya's

[rough salmon]

wareya's ftw

[hearty knot]

"Tell me that's the game you want to play."
"No time to talk. Busy playing Morrowind."

[warm saddle]

That might be why, I think it interacts weirdly with PBR but I’ll investigate

[half summit]

Yeah fair enough, I was gna mess with the values but I bricked my setup so I have some surgery to do before I can test it again 😅

[rotund epoch]

I saw some wetness- and bathing-related mods for MSWE and even OG Vanilla. Curious whether SD and Baths of Vvardenfell influenced that.

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58200?tab=description this one has one great feature. Wetness-specific dialogue.

gives me the vibe of Closed for the Night mod 🧐

[vernal marsh]

"sky-water"

[rotund epoch]

I like it

the silt strider handlers can be so poetic with their greetings

[warm saddle]

Yeah not happening. If someone wanted to make a mod for that they could though

Someone could make a mod for dialogue with comments on all of the buffs/debuffs we apply if they wanted even but yeah we’re not writing generic dialogue, the only thing for dialogue atm is the homecooked meals and the upcoming expansion to food service

[half summit]

It could be an interesting idea. being constantly told you look tired might get too real though

[warm saddle]

There’s a reason why I have -personality on getting tired (grumpy)

[warm saddle]

Btw, the dubious concoctions mod is what's causing problems with pretty loot and sun's dusk

[warm saddle]

It's been a long day

[rotund epoch]

hm, not the first time this mod is mentioned

[warm saddle]

Well it causes problems with pretty loot too, not just this mod

[rotund epoch]

I blame @half summit

because of the name

it's your fault, bro

don't think we didn't notice!

🤡

[half summit]

That's fair, I'm a culpable sort

[half summit]

Rough 😅 I'm pretty sure the last update made changes intended specifically to work with SD

They been struggling to make it work tbf

[warm saddle]

Yeah not with 1.8, ownlyme left a comment for him

[half summit]

Yeah big changes

[warm saddle]

But it'll still cause problems with pretty loot regardless, he'd probably need to refactor dubious concoctions entirely

[half summit]

Oof

[warm saddle]

Btw @rough salmon after all these months I finally figured out that weird thing that happened with your temperature to give you an insane number

[rough salmon]

Remind me, what's the reason behind adding ~ to certain item names?

[warm saddle]

So that they'd all show up in the same place in your inventory

[rough salmon]

🧐

[warm saddle]

Those are for the vendor though, when they're added to your inventory they lose the ~ and become misc items

[rough salmon]

Gotcha

[rough salmon]

it even moves??????

[warm saddle]

Who do you think we are

Also, since there have been no bug reports we're gonna go ahead and upload today

Well, when I finish up the mod description Nexus "markdown" has hands

[warm saddle]

Ok, gitlab is up to date, wiki is up to date, and mod page is up to date

Big facelift for sun's dusk

Changelog v1.8

Features

In addition to everything [above](#1427867749870473287 message) ...

• Eating food directly from plates and bowls in the world won't add foodware to your inventory
• Drinking directly from cups won't add containers to your inventory
• Some roots are now choppable for woodcutting

HUGE update to the wiki, gitlab, and nexus page!!!

https://gitlab.com/lhya/sunsdusk/-/wikis/home

Now the poster child of this mod

[rotund epoch]

since you updated the version on the Nexus, now people will post bug reports for sure

[warm saddle]

Nope

https://gitlab.com/lhya/sunsdusk/-/wikis/troubleshooting

[warm saddle]

Btw @rough salmon if you were curious https://gitlab.com/lhya/sunsdusk/-/wikis/troubleshooting#help-my-temperature-is-200000000000000000000000000

[rough salmon]

[warm saddle]

[half summit]

[gloomy mango]

[rotund epoch]

I took this directly from the wiki. Was sth changed about this Fatigue effect in this version? If it's Drain Fatigue effect as before then it probably still only changes current Fatigue and is regenerated back to full very quickly. No real effect.

[stable bronze]

from experience in intense self-training, I doubled the numbers on all the "needs", I was getting hungry, thirsty, tired, and dirty way too often

[rotund epoch]

Oh, I didn't know that it's possible to gather wood with darts or hands 😅 . I've always been using axes for that 😄

[rough salmon]

Wait, does punching trees with fists grant h2h xp?

Can my nord guy just train that way inbetween his merc tasks?

heck yea

Punching bags galore!

[rotund epoch]

btw reading the wiki made me wonder whether it's even possible to die due to sleep deprivation IRL

seems to me that at some point you would simply pass out, anyway

"stealing" sleep that way

[sour leaf]

Question: Is my cooking skill only displayed in the skill menu if it's above 0? I have skill framework and the bardcraft one shows up even when it's 0

[warm saddle]

How are you getting a cooking skill of 0? The console command?

[sour leaf]

Idk if it’s 0 it’s just not showing up but I think I’m stupid

I had SD way above skill framework in my LO

[warm saddle]

That would be why then haha

[sour leaf]

Idk why but in my customizations file I had suns dusk completely separate from everything else

[rough salmon]

Doesn't seem to be the case :(

[half summit]

Respect for the Redguard soundtrack that's the perfect fist training montage music

[rough salmon]

🧐

[warm saddle]

You have to cut down the trees xD

[rough salmon]

But I've cut the tree!

I just disabled their disappearance

[warm saddle]

I think he nerfed skill xp gain if you prevent trees from despawning 🧐

[rough salmon]

:(

[warm saddle]

He really didn’t want people to use that setting haha

[rough salmon]

And I don't want to deforest the whole continent

[warm saddle]

But the grahtwood trees are calling

[rough salmon]

I would enable it only when the trees will start to regrow

[warm saddle]

Yeah I think I might end up doing something with that

Planting would be cool

Especially now that we’re getting a campsite, I’ve got big plans for that smirk 😏

[rough salmon]

Also a small nitpick: currently on Cooking skill up, message says Cooking leveled up by 1 or something along the lines, which doesn't match the vanilla Your Cooking skill increased to 25. messages

[warm saddle]

Yeah I’m gonna switch the message boxes for cooking up a bit to be more like Bardcraft’s with tiers and whatnot

But now that this mod is in a good place we’re gonna focus on crafting framework and skills next, other things will come with time and when we feel like refactoring stuff

[rough salmon]

Sounds good to me. I really feel like the crafting system (in terms of balancing and progression) could use some love

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme is going hard with the crafting API and I need to do a few things with timehud and a new mod’ll go alongside crafting

[half summit]

What new mod?

[rough salmon]

*which one xd

[warm saddle]

Yeah it needs some TLC for sure, the API is nice though and we have lots of examples for people to create recipes

I’ll probably create a library of every item in the game, TD and OAAB for people to use too

[warm saddle]

Another time mod

[rough salmon]

timehud was so successful they released timehud 2?

[warm saddle]

Because for some reason all of my mods need to use the calendar API

calendar API got hands

[warm saddle]

Nah, Time Flies but for openmw

[rough salmon]

hell yeah

[warm saddle]

Using the calendar API in a way that doesn’t absolutely fuck any mod that uses getGameTime()

(impossible challenge)

Nah I think I’ll be alright

[rough salmon]

Though will it be useful if we already use unpaused menus?

[warm saddle]

Yeah I want to see what Time Flies does about that since it has specific interop with their unpaused menus

But for openmw all changes to time have to be done with timescale changes or simulation time changes

So that’ll be the difference, but I haven’t looked at the code for theirs

[tepid sedge]

i really like that idea, we should do it

not sure what to do about insomniac then

and the roguelite challenge which doesnt allow resting

[warm saddle]

Disable death by sleep

?

Just like the other ones

[rough salmon]

Maybe just skip day or two of ingame time

[rotund epoch]

there was some talk in the wiki about dying from sleep deprivation in the future. No timeframe. It seems that "death by sleep" is not that realistic because you would simply pass out at some point and that's it.

sleep deprivation can fuck you in many ways

but you don't directly die from this

[warm saddle]

It would be for consistency similarly to the other needs

[rotund epoch]

atm it's already different

no death option

[rough salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/тайлер-дерден-разговор-обсуждение-проблем-насущных-gif-10041751196198579555

[tepid sedge]

i find the idea of making a passing out mechanic challenging

in a good way

[warm saddle]

No

[rotund epoch]

I'm sure it can be balanced with some basic customisation

[warm saddle]

Also no

[tepid sedge]

maybe theres a chance that ppl will steal your shit and it shows up on nearby npcs

[rotund epoch]

of course it can

[warm saddle]

Out of scope

[rotund epoch]

I think sth like this was once discussed in dumb ideas thread

[warm saddle]

There are already an abundance of mods that attach scripts to nearby actors