Sun's Dusk: Needs & Survival

[rotund epoch]

That's because that kind of a mod tends to attract people looking for more immersion, realism, balance and challenge . This is the way 🔥

[warm saddle]

Yeah but I’m not going to make it punishing to use a backpack because I actually want people to use them

The ugliest backpacks in Skyrim all give like +15% movement speed, +30 speech, +150 carrying capacity whereas the ones that actually look nice give like 10 carry capacity only

Like jfc

[rotund epoch]

good that this shit isn't too good because damn that's total garbage, lol

who the heck comes up with such armor design?

[warm saddle]

Idk I only play with mods

But tbf Skyrim was released in 2011 (though theyve had plenty of time to fix stuff)

Like judging oblivion aesthetics in 2021

[rotund epoch]

some people like it btw (I don't)

[warm saddle]

Me neither

But tbf I don’t like a lot of the Skyrim aesthetics either

There’s only one mod I’ve seen get it right

Probably more I just haven’t played enough

[half summit]

yeah fair, i think it would make a good module for SD but you guys can leave that for someone whos interested to pick it up. if i can get the hang of working the api eventually id like to work towards that. someone else will probably get there first at my pace though😅

[warm saddle]

You’d be better off looking at quickloot tbh I think haha

[half summit]

yeah thats what i meant, i just put it all together in my head haha

but yeah QL makes a perfect base for it imo

[warm saddle]

But I mean there really isn’t anything existing in the API for containers or anything, at least with yours we already had tooltips, water, and heat to work from

[half summit]

its a skooma-dream ik, but i just dig that ui

[warm saddle]

It could very well be its own mod haha, ownlyme really wanted it to be a separate mod

We were fighting about it for days tbh

[half summit]

the backpacks?

[warm saddle]

Yeah

In fact he made it as a separate mod and I had to make the modules for it

Even created a damn restocking API for them instead of using the existing one lmfao

I created the modules for them and when he saw his kitty in a backpack he hasn’t taken it off since and now he wants to do all sorts of cool abilities for different ones and he wants me to add all the other backpacks from westly’s mod xD

[half summit]

ah right haha yeah it definitely deserves its own mod, but its part of the survival RP experience to me so it fits

[warm saddle]

I told him that you’ll have your own standalone mod using the bone vfx workaround for scarves and goggles

[half summit]

Nice haha yeah it's gonna be cool, I was looking through old Onion mods and also found a visible belts mod and one for wearable lanterns so there's some fun options to consider

A nice satchel/bandolier mod too

[warm saddle]

Yeah if you’re comfortable in nifskope or blender you could definitely make something like Onion, ownlyme would probably be willing to help you with the API so people can register their own

But uh, neither of us want anything to do with 3D modeling ever again lmfao

[half summit]

I know a thing or two about back troubles from lugging heavy ass musical equipment so yeah I agree

[half summit]

Yeah that works for me haha Im practicing to get more comfortable with modeling and nif-foolery. Brain tends more towards the visual anyway 🦧 so it's a fun challenge. Though it rarely makes sense

[warm saddle]

Fr fr, I’ve long accepted that 3D is not for me aside from 3D printing (but that’s just fiddling with settings and generating gcode) but that requires no blender
And yeah the backpacks I like all came with their own skeleton so we had to perform some kind of weird surgery

The workarounds they had to do in 2008 mwscript were legendary

[half summit]

We stand on the backs of giants

[rapid valve]

Wait this is actually a great point. I wonder how bad a backpack following the player with mwscript to always be behind them would look. I've seen lights doing it

[warm saddle]

Nah this one was an armor slot on the shoulders but the weird shit they did with the skeletons and bones was absurd, it was for better bodies which has different numbers of bones for male and female I think

Idk just going through the nifs felt like a time machine haha

[half summit]

"better" bodies

[warm saddle]

I love this mod haha

Going into a bathhouse and having it feel like a proper Greek/roman bathhouse

[half summit]

I just never cared for how it looks. I don't mind the nudity, my favorite was daggerfall.
I use pluginless vsbr, I prefer the way it looks

[humble mica]

next you should add strigils

they're implements, so obviously the hierarchy goes apprentice, journeyman, master, grandmaster, secret master

Your Hygiene skill has increased to 16.

[half summit]

Based

[half summit]

That will have be to part of the sauna update. Coming soon™

Feature creep is a bitch

[humble mica]

listen, all i'm asking for is the option to buy a bottle of olive oil from a shopkeeper in Anvil and pour it over myself

i need the agility bonus

[half summit]

There'll be more readily available in dagon fel

We'll have to wait and see about pouring it over your head, but who's to say that's not how you apply potions in general? A soothing ointment of leveitation

[rotund epoch]

btw it's interesting that 20 years ago everybody was running around with Better Heads and Better Bodies but nowadays they are not even included in the modlists and I saw many MW-related videos with Vanilla-like heads just with upscaled textures and other tweaks like that. TR and PT don't care about this stuff as well.

[lunar tiger]

Tamriel data's faces are the best heads for morrowind by far, some of Westly's are decent, but imo most of them are not very good, and I won't say anything about Mackom's because I won't speak ill of a creator that gives out content for free. But yeah, vanilla style is best, VSBR for bodies and vanilla faces with upscaled textures is the way to go.

[warm saddle]

I use westly’s and bb because I want all my NPCs to look like supermodels

Same thing in Skyrim

[lunar tiger]

hahaha that's perfectly valid

[vernal marsh]

Where's pluginless vsbr?

[half summit]

Theres a patch fix for it here with links to the original @vernal marsh https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/43795

[warm saddle]

Oh yeah next update will also have the API used for unpaused menus although I use it for a custom UI

Looks like the update is good to go for tonight then

Not individual meshes either, just had to get the offset for all the food to be right

[half summit]

Wow that's comprehensive haha gotta eat all my meals from that giant wooden bowl

[warm saddle]

Obviously they’re not all perfect but what would a Morrowind mod be without some jank

[gloomy mango]

Good lord, NPCs should not look like Handsome Squidward

[rapid valve]

Who modelled that fried egg? I like it

[warm saddle]

They’re all from expanded loot

Open perms

[gloomy mango]

Not that you need any more scope, but an idea:

Brew/cook poisons like the poison apples from oblivion? (But then without NPCs eating them I guess what’s the point!)

[warm saddle]

Someone could make recipes for those, I’m not even sure what ingredients I’d use for that xD but yeah it’s possible to do that with reverse pickpocketing

[rotund epoch]

So many things I will probably never see as I don't put stews on the ground

[half summit]

That face is a different mod than what I was talking about, I don't like it either..

Will jumping spill your stew?

@gloomy coyote AutoStewDrop when?

[warm saddle]

No but you’ll see the different icons and recipes from merchants

[warm saddle]

There’s no more stew

[rotund epoch]

[warm saddle]

Well I have a few stew recipes for mushrooms, meat and fish I think

Only like 2 or 3 though but I forget

And then whatever’s in Affa’s

But yeah no more shitty generic stew pot

[rotund epoch]

Stews did their job

[warm saddle]

They got the job done

[rotund epoch]

They weren't shit 😄

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme hated the little pot haha

[half summit]

Time to take them around the woodshed

[warm saddle]

Even though he’s the one who made it xD

The mesh and whatnot is still staying in there so it won’t be a but yeah no more generic stew

[half summit]

I'll have to keep the last one I made as a souvenir

[rotund epoch]

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/38886 I think I will use this when I get back to Skyrim. Looks nice.

The problem is that playing Skyrim seems like such a waste of time 😅 . I would probably be like: eh, I could be playing Morrowind now... But they have some nice mods at least.

[humble mica]

um, excuse me mx skyrim mod author, but those emojis in the thumbnail image technically represent water & blood, not dirt & blood

[rotund epoch]

literally unplayable

[humble mica]

many such cases! 😔

[vernal marsh]

😆

[warm saddle]

Same, I think like “damn I could be playing Morrowind” but I need my dopamine rush

[warm saddle]

Water for washing the dirt off

[humble mica]

and blood for washing the blood off?

[half summit]

Water for the water god

[gloomy coyote]

🤣

[warm saddle]

Alrighty I have a few hours to sneak in some features before ownlyme wakes up to tweak a few things

Poll time

[rough salmon]

How does current tea UI look like?

[warm saddle]

R and F tooltip for each kind of tea

[rough salmon]

I'm voting for backpacks regardless

I'm a sucker for those

[warm saddle]

I’ll be doing the tea UI like the new bathing UI

[half summit]

mmm

[warm saddle]

That’ll probably remain in place but when the crafting framework update comes out I’ll be going much harder with that but the tea UI will remain in place for those without it

The mod I yoinked then from has like … 12 total ? It wouldn’t take me long at all to add them either haha I just didn’t know people would want them all 💀 merchants restock them but I also added recipes

[rough salmon]

I know it's a different thing, but Bandoliers were so awesome 🙏

[warm saddle]

I think that’s dubious territory haha

Don’t want to steal the spotlight from him xD

[half summit]

hey look if you want to do it i wont get butthurt over being handed my favourite mods

but yeah im willing to put in the work

[warm saddle]

Nah haha I don’t want to touch blender or nifskope ever again

[rough salmon]

btw, will backpacks be standalone or a part of SD?

[warm saddle]

Part of SD

[rough salmon]

Is there a reason for coupling it in?

[warm saddle]

But I’ll give the code to dubious for making scarves and goggles and glasses

Well you get benefits for it with this mod and I don’t want to maintain another mod atm or make people install another one

[half summit]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/51063
if all goes according to plan theres things like this too that can be given the treatment, most of the hard work done already

[warm saddle]

Why would I make people install another mod for a feature that’s included in the MWSE survival mod haha

[rough salmon]

Fair

[warm saddle]

We have more code at this point anyway

Although I think we surpassed that point some time ago if you exclude the hardcore databases

Our database for statics with TD and OAAB is 200 lines of code or so

His is … about 5000 lines of code worth of tables? Which idk if openmw can even take

But he doesn’t have the problem of being able to refill water from velothi stairwells

I also think about 7500 lines of our code is cursed workarounds

[rough salmon]

*luxury

[warm saddle]

Idk if there are any other features of ashfall that I want to add, I think the backpack was the one by popular request

More crafting I guess but that’ll never be a hard requirement

And a better camping system haha

[charred tide]

It'd be nice if the fire would become smaller and go out after a while

[warm saddle]

Nifskope

Maybe not

[charred tide]

just scale

no

just light value of different activator

[warm saddle]

Well the fire is baked into the meshes for the fire

But we’ll see

I’m more interested in adding features from Skyrim mods that I like

[charred tide]

it should be possible, pretty much no matter what 😄

[half summit]

i was looking into that, emitters are tricky

[warm saddle]

Yeah …

[charred tide]

there are more than one way to approach this

[warm saddle]

But yeah a Skyrim mod was most of the motivation for the bowls and plates

And also proving it was possible to change meshes on the fly without making a bunch of individual ones with openmw even though it is a cursed workaround

[charred tide]

one would be to separate the light from the mesh into a separate activator to be spawned at the wood

[warm saddle]

Yeah

[charred tide]

or to create multiple wood + fire mesh, with a smaller flame and make them activators with different light values

that's the easiest maybe

[warm saddle]

Which means editing all the meshes in nifskope

[half summit]

but how do you make a smaller flame?

[charred tide]

well, yeah but it shouldn't be hard. Maybe annoying 😄

[warm saddle]

Initially I was going to do VFX and that was kinda the proof of concept but I didn’t know that VFX is kinda buggy until 0.51

[warm saddle]

With lua

[charred tide]

swapping out lights with lua

[half summit]

no i mean in the nif. nm ill figure it out

[charred tide]

there should be a flame in there that you can scale

[warm saddle]

Idk if ownlyme will want to do more with the mesh API though since it is a giga cursed workaround

[charred tide]

can't be worse than this

[warm saddle]

All the worst workarounds end up relying on a weird mwscript

Well, we generated 900 spell effects for cooking haha

[charred tide]

ok, maybe that is worse

[warm saddle]

But yeah that is tedious

[warm saddle]

That wasn’t even remotely close to the worst one

Or what ralts had to do for the magic window

[charred tide]

Ralts is genius, you can't compare him with us

[warm saddle]

But yeah nah that is tedious work, good job

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme is the one who gave him the cursed workaround for a problem he ran into with the openmw API but yeah obviously he’s on another level as far as UI goes haha

And animation

[charred tide]

yes, he came out of nowhere and dominated everyone with Bardcraft

[warm saddle]

Ikr

Proves that the Morrowind mods are the best of the elder scrolls mods

But yeah I’m trying to think if anything was worse than the bowls and food

[charred tide]

yes, we keep the elder scrolls going atm

[warm saddle]

I’m not even sure what else we could use it for haha

I guess if we wanted to add trinkets to tents and whatnot like ashfall but idk

[charred tide]

Out of all the games, Morrowind is the furthest with building the provinces

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure

[charred tide]

and it's easier for us too, so we'll likely finish them much faster

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure

After modding Skyrim within the last few weeks I have a new appreciation for them

For all the cursed workarounds we’ve had to do, at least we’ve never had to create a quest

[charred tide]

Skyrim doesn't feel as fleshed out as SHOTN already 😄

[warm saddle]

Ikr haha

Although I found a mod that gives SHOTN vibes which made me

[charred tide]

Skyrim is a fun action game

but it's shallow

[warm saddle]

Obviously not as good or developed but yeah

I don’t consider it an RPG

At least in the traditional sense

Oh yeah, the dialogue pulling up the cooking UI was also cursed

Although ownlyme already had a mod that kinda did something similar

[charred tide]

Imagine how Morrowind could look like in 5 years

[warm saddle]

Also I think cooking at an innkeeper still requires a bowl but that’ll be fixed in a future update

[charred tide]

Finished TR perhaps

[warm saddle]

And I have something cool planned for the bougie among us

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure, at the rate TR is going I expect most of the mainland to be done by then

Would be nice to see a Telvanni facelift though

[charred tide]

The entire Telvanni territory will be overhauled

[warm saddle]

Yeah

[charred tide]

but it will be the last step

[warm saddle]

Idk when though

Oh but yeah if anyone wants any other ashfall features lmk

Not sure if I care about the dynamic backpacks though since these ones are pretty

[charred tide]

If OpenMW keeps growing as it is, we'll get plenty of cool mods and API features too

[warm saddle]

In general I’m not super interested in camping, that’s all ownlyme
I’m more interested in having the player interact with the world, adding animations will definitely go a long way

[charred tide]

yes, but that's like sacred knowledge. Only a handful of modders know how to create animations

You'll need Blender too

[warm saddle]

I think I can find most of the animations I want to use so that I don’t have to touch 3D program ever again

[charred tide]

executing existing animations is fairly easy

[warm saddle]

Oh yeah for sure

That’s mostly what I’ll be looking for

I think I have one for eating, idk about drinking

[charred tide]

first person animations would be amazing

I usually play in first person

[warm saddle]

Me too but that’s rough

Those are whole separate Skyrim mods

[charred tide]

It's possible. Look at my skooma mod

[warm saddle]

That’s true

Actually that might work if I swap out the skooma pipe with food and water?

[charred tide]

It makes it feel twice as immersive

I'd love something like that for the interactions of SD

[warm saddle]

Is the skooma pipe baked into the animation itself? Or do you add it on the fly

[charred tide]

Eating, washing (!), drinking, add wood

[charred tide]

I have no idea 😄

[warm saddle]

Yeah I really want to do animations, made the Skyrim mods feel so alive

[charred tide]

Fallchildren did that for me

[warm saddle]

Gotcha haha

I’ll see how he does it then sometime

I’ll probably do 3rd person animations first

[charred tide]

it's definitely worth the effort

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure

[charred tide]

if you figure it out, let me know

[warm saddle]

Haha yeah, I will

Hopefully it doesn’t involve any cursed workaround

[charred tide]

if I figure it out, I'll let you know

[warm saddle]

Thank you haha

[charred tide]

yes, you could try that and have my permission

[warm saddle]

Very blessed

[half summit]

pretty sure its added seperately from the anim because once it got stuck in my hand for a while

[charred tide]

yes, I haven't fixed that yet. It's because the pipe is attached to the bone as an vfx

[warm saddle]

Well then

Good thing we’re already acquainted with that

[charred tide]

but there is a simply command to change that. I was just too lazy to implement it

if you unequip the pipe it goes away too

[warm saddle]

Understandable haha

But yeah in general I’m most interested in adding things for you to interact with in the world, the soap + bug musk + baths and tooltips are the things I really like

[charred tide]

Animations for each of those actions would be a game changer

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure

Not sure if there’s some kind of bathing animation floating around

Although applying like a bubble vfx would be simple enough I think

[half summit]

there are some idles in game that could be used as basic washing. like they brush somthing off their shoulder

[warm saddle]

Oh yeah that’s true

[charred tide]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiKwCm9ekV4

[warm saddle]

Poor ownlyme would be the one doing and testing that haha, I’ll be doing the third person animations

[half summit]

all of the 3rd person anims work for the first person body mod btw, its just that mod has a lot of compat issues too

[warm saddle]

Gotcha

I plan on adding a Leatherworking and a survival skill at some point in the future now that we have a handle on adding skills

Leatherworking will come sometime after the crafting update though

Survival skill will be baked into Sun’s dusk without the dependency but Leatherworking will be exclusive to SWE since I’ll want interop with like Hunterwind

Survival too I guess

There’s the dynamic needs and weather and the other things I’ve talked about but I need to play the game before I can work on those

[charred tide]

do what with the game?

[warm saddle]

Right

[charred tide]

test your mods but for many hours?

[warm saddle]

Crazy right

I think I’ll be able to play once I make my religion mod

I literally can’t play Skyrim without wintersun

[charred tide]

no, you'll be stuck in the loop of "I'll play the game once I have fixed X"

and then X changes

for me that is currently the Sixth House

[warm saddle]

God I’ve spent hours patching this fucking Skyrim modpack just bc it comes with a billion patches for a dinky religion mod

Hahaha yeah

That’s how it goes for mod creators

Somehow sosnoviy has found a way to play the game

[charred tide]

I want to play at least the PT / TR content because I haven't seen (much) of it

[warm saddle]

It’s really good

[warm saddle]

I’ve done most of the tribunal temple quests on my thicc playthrough, Narsis is basically the one area I haven’t visited

[charred tide]

I end up in the Mages Guild every time

[warm saddle]

Hahaha more backpacks it is

[charred tide]

and then do 70 % of their quests and then bam "new mod idea"

[warm saddle]

Right haha

I’d love seeing more interactions of them and the telvanni

Although I’ll be an Indoril simp when that comes out

[charred tide]

It may be useful to have a mod that introduces you to the prophecy much later / when you want to

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure

I kinda dislike being the chosen one like an hour into the game xD

[charred tide]

Currently you are shipped to Morrowind because of the prophecy

[warm saddle]

Although I guess that’s the Skyrim questline too

[charred tide]

yes, but in Morrowind it's easier to pretend you're nobody

[warm saddle]

But who does the main questlines in a Bethesda game 💀

[half summit]

expansion delay but for main quest would be great

[charred tide]

You can just roleplay the idiot who doesn't listen to orders

[warm saddle]

I’ve put 700 hours into playing and still haven’t finished the main quests

[half summit]

i have no issues there

[charred tide]

imagine you'd be introduced to the prophecy by talking to the ashlanders

that would feel more natural

[warm saddle]

For sure

[charred tide]

Why does the emperor know / care / believe in a prophecy that's probably bs

only the Ashlanders believe that

[warm saddle]

Has to do with keeping Morrowind under control

Wouldn’t be good if Daddy Dagoth got his way and yeeted all the nwah’s from Morrowind

[half summit]

i feel like he was just hedging his bets, he found someone who fits the vague words and thought why not

[warm saddle]

But no idea why the emporer would know about an obscure prophecy

[charred tide]

Would be funny if you weren't the only one he shipped

like "you go, and you and you"

[warm saddle]

Hahaha for sure

Battle royale for the nerevarine title

[charred tide]

and then everyone else dies from Corprus except you

[half summit]

it would be great to meet other people running around thinking they are the nerevarine too

[half summit]

hes just a conspiracy nut

[charred tide]

Imagine if Dagoth Ur got stronger based on how many days have passed. People will get corprus and die (regardless of their quests)

it'd remind me of this russian plague game "Pathologic"

[warm saddle]

Yeah I feel like he doesn’t pose much of a threat

End Times but for Morrowind

#1450571839561666681 message

[astral mauve]

hyacinth2199

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/39201 but for Dagoth Ur

Linked by @​hyacinth2199 from #OpenMW Mod Requests - Check Pins! · Jan 24, 2026, 2:22 PM

[charred tide]

There is so much to do regarding the Sixth House. I'm not satisfied with the mods we have for them

I have a different vision

I'd go much more into the "dream / mindcontrol" ideas and also go with the flesh Akulakahn theory.

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/55705 this one is a good start

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure, I love those mods

I think those kind of weird dreamlike sequences is what sets morrowind apart and makes it so unique

Also btw, there are like 10 backpacks I’ll be adding but if ppl want to make more colours or whatnot I can add them or add an API to register your own backpacks

After this update I’ll be working on the religion mod and really try to get good documentation bc there’s a lot you can do with the API if anyone wants to create their own modules

Fishing would be a good example, obviously would be good as a standalone mod but we have an API for it so that you’d have like half as much work

[charred tide]

Religion is a big deal in Morrowind (Kirkbride studied theology)

maybe there should be something like loyalty of belief

if you go and pray for everyone, you are no true worshiper of one god (your prayers are worthless)

so maybe the god bonus is strongest if you only pray to one god

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’ll basically be a wintersun import

I fucking love that mod

[warm saddle]

But yeah that’s a feature of it

Well, that’s the primary mechanic haha

[rough salmon]

Just collab with people who know how to animate

[rough salmon]

Once we will have more camera mods, I'd definitely try a 3rd person playthrough

Something like Steadicam at least

[rotund epoch]

TES doesn't work in TPP for me. It's good once in a while in order to look at character's equipment and such but I don't use it for regular gameplay.

[charred tide]

If you walk around a corner in tpp than it's problematic

[rough salmon]

I think with better camera and target lock it would be pretty interesting

[warm saddle]

All 2 people? xD

[warm saddle]

Yeah I play in TPP but swap between the two depending on what I’m doing

Aiming (in morrowind)? First person always

[hearty knot]

I'd love to see true directional movement in third person

[half summit]

yeah fishing would be cool using something like the temperature system to dynamically determine available fish. theres quite a few mods adding passive water life now, and raycast for casting would be pretty slick. converting the fishing pole mod to lua, if ralts doesnt get around to doing his one, is on my wishlist.

proper hunterwind integration for all the added fish would be nice too, i already have the td ones but thats not many

[gloomy mango]

What else is even left?

[half summit]

coffee

[gloomy mango]

And Khajiits licking their paws to bath too please 🤣

[warm saddle]

It has a survival skill, more in-depth camping mechanics, a lot of crafting

More in-depth skills and crafting isn't a huge priority atm since those are external mods and not dependencies although the cooking skill is getting added to the stats window extender this update and I'm adding some recipes, it's just not a core mechanic

[gloomy mango]

Man i really need to get off my arse and update this…

[warm saddle]

Idk what other features it has though haha which is why I ask xD

[gloomy mango]

I too prefer crafting to be its own thing, but that’s because I never bother crafting in games lol

[warm saddle]

Same xD

[half summit]

i just like having all the options

[gloomy mango]

Have you ever tried https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/54099

My next playthrough is going to be a simonmagnus one. As I’ve found mods like Ordinator to be overwhelming.

[warm saddle]

No because wintersun

[warm saddle]

Understandable haha, it's not for everyone

Pilgrim seems much more balanced and chill and minimalistic

[rotund epoch]

I've seen on the modding channel that Merlord is working on Ashfall Pottery. Cool but not survival-related. By now SD is its own thing, anyway, so Ashfall comparisons are only useful when you explain the mod to MSWE-folk.

I don't think that there are any glaring features missing in SD. Even the current version works good. It does its job. Obviously there can be improvements. I don't remember the polls results but dynamic needs are the big one, I think.

[gloomy mango]

I wonder if summoning an ancestral Ghost will aid with pottery

[rotund epoch]

the good thing is that SD works good... right now. Perfectly functional for any playthrough. Future updates are bonuses.

[warm saddle]

Dynamic needs and weather will come along when ownlyme gives me an API :p but i think he's going to be working on the crafting framework next

[rotund epoch]

no pressure

[warm saddle]

So it's likely you'll see leatherworking and better crafting before dynamic needs but we'll see

That's generally how things go, ownlyme creates an API and then I implement design and whatnot

And then he refactors my code so that it actually works

The bathing and temperature modules are kinda my babies though, his are camping, woodcutting and wetness

The rest we've worked on together for the most part

Except I don't let him near my spreadsheets and he doesn't let me near his global

[tawny briar]

Does this mod add in the gondolier's hat, since it references it explicitly, or do I still need to kill a gondolier or console it in

[warm saddle]

I added a recipe for it if you have crafting

[tawny briar]

is that part of the base Sun's Dusk?

[warm saddle]

No but you can get it here https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/57247

If you install that, the recipes will show right up when you use a repair hammer

Also, we're officially at over 5k downloads

[brazen reef]

That's a very monotheist look at religion, though, while TES religions are polytheist. The Imperial Pantheon is worshipped as a pantheon, with different Aedric deities helping people (and especially their chosen champions) in different areas of life, likewise with the Tribunal and their saints

[warm saddle]

Yeah nah you can only worship one deity with this mod

Because they give you sick bonuses

[brazen reef]

But does it mean that Vivec would get mad at you for asking Sotha's blessing with magic and research and stop giving you bonuses?

Or like praying at St Rilms's shrine

[warm saddle]

Nah

[rotund epoch]

He wouldn't. It's all part of the same religion. He would be less amused if you embraced the Nine Divines or even worse - Daedra from the House of Troubles.

[gloomy mango]

Vivec recognising the player praying to him every hour as “well if it aint my biggest fan!”

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/pug-chill-boss-ive-been-expecting-you-hello-gif-4746346

[brazen reef]

I see that game balance considerations are important here and I enjoy both sick bonuses and hardcore mechanics in any case, I'm not even doing the ton of work that is making the religion mod. Just sharing my perspective on how it works in TES lore

[lunar tiger]

If one doesn't wanna turn off the bonuses from food, plus the bonuses from the religion mod, plus the other bonuses from SD, difficulty mods will be completely necessary. Too many bonuses to stats haha

[half summit]

difficulty mods are kind of essential anyway imo

its not a well balanced game haha

[gloomy mango]

Maybe an option that the player is weaker than normal and the food drink and sleep buffs bring them back up to baseline would solve that

[half summit]

it should be adjustable in the settings already

you can die from hunger 😅

and if your dirty you get diseased like crazy

but the settings are pretty extensive

[rough salmon]

🥴

[warm saddle]

Thought I got that one 0.o

[grand spire]

https://tenor.com/view/community-jeff-winger-ghost-shocked-pottery-gif-17416364

[grand spire]

I've never seen Ghost but the Community episode that parodied it was great

[stable bronze]

Ghost is a great movie, Patrick Swayzee, Demi Moore, Whoopie Goldberg, all delivered good performances

[grand spire]

Eh I don't really like romance stuff

So uh, how big is the upcoming update gonna be? And what's it gonna add? Cause I've kinda been holding off on swapping Devilish Needs for Sun's Dusk and therefore also on playing Morrowind cause I was told that was coming soon, but now I'm wondering if it's worth it and if I should just install the current version and then update later? 😅

[rough salmon]

You could always update mid-playtgrough

[grand spire]

True

[warm saddle]

It would’ve been done last night but someone wanted to get every food looking perfect in every piece of clutter

There were several arguments

[grand spire]

Damn

Yeah no worries :P

[rough salmon]

I purified water on the fire and got a turnip for it

[warm saddle]

Must’ve been a turnip floating around in that sus water

Better than a puffer fish

[rough salmon]

old dwemer tradition

[grand spire]

Can I suggest:

adding a few px of padding 😅

[rough salmon]

common issue with ownlyme's UI mods

[grand spire]

Damn... every mod that does stuff like this has to reimplement the UI necessary!?

[warm saddle]

Yup

[grand spire]

😭

[warm saddle]

There is an API for padding i think since buff timers uses it but i personally haven't touched it

[grand spire]

I thought there'd be an API that plugs into the rest of the UI like, being able to just call a Morrowind tooltip thingy and put whatever inside of it

[warm saddle]

Nope have to create tooltips and the UI for them all ourselves

[grand spire]

Jesus

[warm saddle]

The hunger/thirst/sleeping all use the same tooltip UI but the bathing one uses a different UI for it since it adds a few extra things

Not sure if it's possible to do padding for text elements 🧐 I'd have to see

[grand spire]

Can the text elements be put into a container and then add padding to that?

Inside the window/tooltip?

It's so frustrating to know exactly what I wanna do but not be able to cause I don't know enough Lua 😔

[warm saddle]

Maybe but I think that would require 2 UIs

Timehud is a text element inside of a container for example

I plan on doing a little tooltip overhaul at some point and plan on making them look a little cleaner

If anything I can just make the text at the bottom like size 4 or something

Not sure what'll happen if people change text sizes and whatnot but at that point it's on them

[grand spire]

What do the message options actually do?

Like, chatty, deep, etc

What even is "deep"

[warm saddle]

The debug ones?

Spam your debug logs

[grand spire]

Huh?

Wait that's for debug?

[warm saddle]

They're different levels of debug messaging

[grand spire]

It says it's for message boxes though?

[warm saddle]

But those are also used for the temperature UI since I pull those straight from the debug messages

Oh those

How often you want message boxes

The text from those is also in debugging

[grand spire]

What does "Deep" mean?

[warm saddle]

But yeah they're different levels, 0-5 where 0 is nothing and 5 is a lot

[grand spire]

I have no idea what is what though

[warm saddle]

Sorry, those are 0-4

Deep is a lot of message boxes

[half summit]

deep is a lot

[grand spire]

Oh ok

I thought "Deep" would like, either change the phrasing of the messages to make them sound deep or be the lowest setting or something

[half summit]

english is such a wierd language 😅

[warm saddle]

The person who chose the names of those doesn’t speak English as a first language

Which I guess can explain a bit

[half summit]

yeah nah its just when you get sentences like "deep is a lot" it just starts looking weird.

[warm saddle]

Yeah haha

[grand spire]

That sentence looks completely normal to me 💀

[half summit]

define normal

[grand spire]

Not unusual

Not weird

[warm saddle]

“Perfect” for ownlyme looks very different than perfect for me 💀

[half summit]

ok, tht seems subjective to me

[warm saddle]

Which is why the food looks much better than if I adjusted all of them

Every food mesh (40+) for every piece of clutter all in code

We don’t replace clutter meshes though

Long live the glassware and long live the limeware

[grand spire]

...huh uninstalling Devilish Needs seems to have maybe uhhh removed all/most of the alchemy ingredients (including food) from my inventory 💀

Well either that or I put them somewhere and forgot idk

I don't wanna blame anyone for anything 💀

[half summit]

when i uninstalled it during my playthrough i didnt have any issues but i was only level3 so not much progress. i did keep a folder installed with al the DN files just in case, maybe that made a difference 🤷

[grand spire]

Eh maybe I just forgot then, I took a break from the game for about a week so who knows

Ah yeah they were in my pack guar's inventory 😅

[half summit]

ah i miss my pack guar..

[warm saddle]

Update is live give nexus a few minutes

[rough salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/ok-monkey-thumbs-up-good-job-pointing-gif-15867050

[warm saddle]

Changelog v1.7

Features and Changes

NEW Cooking Rework

• A bowl or plate is now required when cooking
• Consuming food will return your empty container
• Cooked food appears in the bowl/plate you used and the tooltip will change in your inventory
• Your bowl and plate meshes are NOT being replaced - meshes for food are simply being added to them on the fly.
  Long live the limeware and long live the glassware!
• Food has is most effective and grants a temperature bonus when eaten within a few hours
• Adding frost salts gives food -5 warmth and adding fire salts gives +10 warmth
• Over 40 different meshes for food can appear depending on cooked ingredients using meshes from @charred tide and Expanded Loot - Food
• 27 named recipes for every combination of food
• 21 of Affa's recipes from Affresh (not required to cook them tho)
• Recipes are not required to cook the 27 base recipes and can be bought from General Merchants and Booksellers
• A Traveler's Guide to Morrowind III: Cooking can also be purchased and has been given a facelift, and also appears in Census and Excise Office
• Most recipes can be cooked without TD or OAAB although either of those mods def gives you more options
  NEW Cooking Skill
• If the Skill Framework is installed, Cooking is displayed on the Stats Window under the Crafts section
• Cooking has been significantly nerfed and balanced to make cooking more rewarding to level
• Alchemy, short sword, intelligence, and luck are all factors for cooking xp
• XP has a diminishing return at high levels
• To change your cooking skill level, use console command lua setcooking x where x is your desired level
• Bretons, Altmer and Orcs have increased aptitude in cooking

NEW Bathing UI

• Interact with a Redware Basin from Lucevar with R/F (spell/weapon stance) when hovering over it to wash up anywhere
• Purchased from General Merchants as a Misc Item and can be dropped and picked up at any time
• When bathing with your Redware Basin, a real-time menu is displayed to choose a soap from your inventory
• Interact with Wash Basins from Tamriel Data and OAAB to bring up the bathing menu
• Controller friendly, use mouse, arrow keys, or Gamepad to select your soap, adjust position with click + drag
  NEW Backpacks and Satchels
• 10 Backpacks and 4 Satchels from Devilish and Westly have been added to the mod and do NOT take an armor slot
• Backpacks are Misc Items and do not take up an armor slot or appear in your armor tab
• When you equip a backpack, the icon will change to indicate that it's equipped
• Now can be purchased from General Merchants and Crafted if the crafting mod is installed and appear in the Census and Excise office on a bench
• Backpacks were fitted using Better Bodies but look fine on vanilla and should be fine on Robert's
  Other
• Improved global API for modders to hook into (keep an eye out for the next Baths of Vvardenfell update 👀 )
• General Merchants now have less quantity of restocked items (OAAB towels, teacups, kettles, etc)
• Towels, teacups and kettles can now be purchased from vendors from Baths of Vvardenfell
• Improved tent and bedroll recipes for Crafting Framework
• Refactored the global to be more modular and allow registration of new global modules outside of this mod
  (keep an eye out for the Baths of Vvardenfell update!)
• Added Ashfall's databases for Tamriel Data and OAAB
• Added more OAAB and TD tea kettles for brewing tea
  Fixes
• Several bug fixes related to disabling temperature and thirst modules
• Salts are now Green-Pact safe
• Several settings fixes including the duplicated tiredness toggle (whoops)

[rotund epoch]

I assume that it can be installed mid-game? Would my stews disappear?

[warm saddle]

Nah they're fine but might want to keep them somewhere as a momento because I killed the stew >:)

No more shitty generic pot mesh

[rotund epoch]

Ok, I just wonder whether anything will break but it doesn't appear so

[warm saddle]

Who do you think we are

[rotund epoch]

MW modders who sail dangerous waters with massive waves caused by Todd-engine.

[warm saddle]

We don't use his engine and the only times we've used his scripts are for workarounds

But it gets the job done

[rotund epoch]

We are all living in Todd's world here. You just don't know it

Btw do backpacks have any effects or are they visual-only?

[warm saddle]

They have feather effects depending on quality (value) and also decrease the weight of carried tents, bedrolls and firewood

Will probably add more over time but we'll see, I'd love to add a skinning knife to them

[rotund epoch]

Ok, thx for info

Will try the update ☺️

[rough salmon]

The Hunterwind one?

[warm saddle]

I kinda want my own but we'll see, I know he has one

idk what the model looks like though and I want one with drip bc I'll let you attach it to your backpack

[gloomy mango]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uOPGkEJ56Q

[warm saddle]

Satchel screenshots are rolling in

If someone wants me to upcale or potato them just lmk since they're bougie asf

[gloomy mango]

Yes* but not all in one place. Naturally in the world space like music boxes from bard craft and vendor lists

[rough salmon]

make a list of them as a separate file

and not as a .xlsx please 🥹

[warm saddle]

Nah haha it's fine

I'll make an actual list haha

As for a list of things like mushrooms, eggs, etc that's an .xlsx right now but i can make it a txt document

There's a list of the recipes as a .txt

[rough salmon]

you forgot to remove a bat file from Alternative Book Covers archive

[warm saddle]

Damn i didn't put in the description that I had nothing to do with these files

Oh well I'll upload that without

Ownlyme did AI upscaling and some other stuff for that but yeah I did not participate in that at all

All my book textures and icons are handcrafted for better or worse

Also wtf is that mouse cursor xD I love it

[rough salmon]

https://www.fanbox.cc/@yoiysan/posts/8585827

[warm saddle]

Many thanks

[lunar tiger]

It's beautiful

[warm saddle]

Here's what cooking looks like in (mostly) vanilla

[hearty knot]

congrats on the release!

[half summit]

is there a way to empty a water bottle without drinking it? i keep giving myself stomach failure drinking a litre of seawater

lying on the floor of my sauna in intense abdominal pains 😂

[warm saddle]

Purifying it

Nah uh if it’s in an open container you can jump
Although I found a few problems in your module and think your add water tooltip also accepts sea water and sus water? Idk if you want it to or if I have an outdated version or something

I’m going to make tea brewing accept water like your sauna and then pull up a smol menu like bathing has but I found that in the process

[half summit]

i was just gonna say its not aaccepting any water rn

[warm saddle]

With the update?

[half summit]

its saying not enough water consumed

just updated

[rotund epoch]

For what? Cooking?

[warm saddle]

When you updated did you overwrite files or did you completely delete everything?

[half summit]

new folder intirely

[warm saddle]

Damn alright

We refactored the API to make it more global so that it’s easier to hook into but I think you’ll need to update yours

[warm saddle]

Surprise with BoV ;)

[warm saddle]

Can you send me the lua files for your module?

[rotund epoch]

Is that... Emil?

[warm saddle]

You can just send your whole scripts folder from BoV

[rotund epoch]

[half summit]

ah that would have been better! its creepy todd

[half summit]

@warm saddle

thats both of em

[warm saddle]

Thank you, we’ll get right on it

This was us tweaking the API btw, nothing wrong with anything you’ve done from here on out it’ll be smooth sailing

[half summit]

sweet ty theres always something haha

[warm saddle]

The API change broke my tea module as well but I didn’t bother to test it out since that’s getting a facelift anyway haha

Sorry to any tea brewing enjoyers, it still spawns and whatnot

[rotund epoch]

So what's broken?

[warm saddle]

It doesn’t take water

Like it doesn’t recognise that water is in your inventory

[rotund epoch]

[warm saddle]

Cooking obviously works but that’s because we reworked the API to allow multiple modules to use it

Originally it was only in cooking then we moved it to be accessible by other modules, then we moved it to be accessible by any lua mod

I think that third part is where dubious’ sauna and my tea got hung up

(This was to patch of bead and feather btw or make it easier for him)

[sterile silo]

How can I place bedrolls/tents? I tried placing them on the ground or dragging them on my character to "consume" them, but the former just places an item on the ground and the latter doesn't work. What am I doing wrong? Or are they not from this mod?

[warm saddle]

Yeah I’m working on that as well haha

[warm saddle]

Comes from the same problem actually

[warm saddle]

Alrighty fix for the tents, tea and your sauna is going up soon

It would be up right now but ownlyme won’t let me upload while anyone has anything to say about his tooltips

So it looks like the tooltips will have padding (building a tooltip on top of the tooltip)

[half summit]

interesting 🧐

[warm saddle]

Ok fix is up

@half summit Your saunas are safe now

Also @rough salmon you have your tooltip padding now

[rough salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-bunny-cute-bunny-dancing-bunny-funny-gif-22261034

[sour leaf]

Holy shit this new update haha

And it has recipes for the foods from expanded loot?

[warm saddle]

No but combining different ingredients will give you some of their meshes, so what you see on their plates

If you want recipes that give you expanded food - loot recipes with their exact mesh that would have to be done with the crafting framework

But these ones appear on the plate or bowl you cook with

[sour leaf]

Oh gotcha

That’s still cool

[warm saddle]

You can see them here

Well, the recipes

[astral mauve]

hyacinth2199

And then here's dynamic cooking

Attachment(s)

cookingshowcase.mp4

Linked by @​hyacinth2199 from #showcase · Jan 25, 2026, 6:38 PM

[warm saddle]

Whoops

You can see what it looks like here

[sour leaf]

That’s awesome. Cant wait to mess around with this when I get home

[rotund epoch]

Cool stuff. I don't see my skill in the character menu, though

Also, I reset the stew mod to default to see how is the balance. Combined some ingredients to check the effects. 75 pts Frost Resistance for 120 seconds for eating a stew is rather silly 😅 .

[warm saddle]

Fire salts🧂 🔥

And turmeric

So a salt and a spice

[half summit]

lmao tied "no" and "no"

[warm saddle]

I think that’s like … 2x or 3x potency ?

[sand prism]

I'd be a big "hunt them down" fan, is that like hand-placed recipes in the world or integrated into what merchants sell?

[half summit]

i love the frost/fire salts feature so much! btw

[warm saddle]

Integrated with what merchants sell

[sand prism]

hell yeah!

[warm saddle]

We dont touch item leveled lists, they’re added with lua so no need for merging or anything

[rotund epoch]

Btw I saw healing over time effect for stews mentioned somewhere as well as better effect for eating them quickly. How does it work exactly?

[rotund epoch]

Some of the backpacks look pretty nice and kudos for making them work seamlessly (no pauldron slot and an equipped icon!) 👍🏻 .

Unfortunately, if you have a shield, the clipping is horrible when they are sheated. I guess that it will be better with satchels.

[lunar tiger]

The bags are so pretty that I preferred to turn off the shield sheathing setting and just carry it in my arm, satchels look much better yes

Bug: waiting makes the bag disappear visually (not from the inventory) and to make it show up again I have to equip a satchel (or another bag, idk) and then re-equip the bag

[rotund epoch]

The book about cooking is nice and informative. I would avoid using wording like "produce named recipes" as it sounds very gamey, though.

[rotund epoch]

I might try that option as well. Depends what kind of bags and satchels I find.

Wait, the mod was updated again?

[warm saddle]

Last minute BoV improvement

But not necessary until dubious puts his out

Nothing critical

[warm saddle]

Exact same as bardcraft haha

I'll want to cook something up with ralts for making backpacks + instruments look better

[half summit]

to be fair wearing a shield on your back with a backpack is never going to go well

[rotund epoch]

I guess that ideally the shield would be moved a bit to the side when backpack is equipped but forcing it to stay in hand or even disappear when sheated with a backpack would all be acceptable as well.

[rough salmon]

Just wear shield over backpack smh

[warm saddle]

If only we could read settings.cfg 😢

Nah idk haha

[rotund epoch]

Strapped to the side of the backpack would be best, I guess, but probably also the hardest considering all the shield sizes.

Hand or disappearance are still ok

[rough salmon]

Btw, are backpacks and stuff sold by pawnbrokers, clothiers or someone else?

[rotund epoch]

I visited a few traders and they didn't have any. I found 1 in Seyda Neen and 1 in Balmora during testing.

BTW is there a difference between high quality firewood and standard firewood?

[warm saddle]

When you cook a stew, steam shows up on the food and a timer starts on it. Only freshly cooked food (eaten within 3 hours of cooking) gives its full hunger restoration, after that it degrades over time to a minimum of 40% the original food value. I think it takes up to like 2 days to reach that minimum
Freshly cooked food (<3 hours, steaming) grants a temperature bonus for 120 seconds, food made with fire salts and frost salts give an extra boost here as well
There's an immediate temperature boost and then one that occurs slowly over time and degrades

[rotund epoch]

Thx for info. Very useful to know this.

[warm saddle]

Not so much a bug I don't think ? I think bardcraft has the same problem but I think he might go about this aspect slightly differently
You can also just go into first person/third person to refresh it

I'll double check at some time tho

[rough salmon]

Guess the next playthrough my mercenary will try to feed himself by himself. Sounds pretty neat

[warm saddle]

Wait until we add food spoilage ;)

[rough salmon]

But still kinda overshadowed by expanded loot

[rough salmon]

:0

[warm saddle]

And critical failures

[rough salmon]

I will wait at least for a new SHotN update

For performance reasons

[warm saddle]

Understandable

[rough salmon]

Btw Taitechnic released a Reanimation optimization patch on his Dynamic Animations page

It supposed to improve performance in super crowded places like Narsis

[warm saddle]

Yooo that's sick

[half summit]

yeah its dope

[warm saddle]

Traders, general merchants, pawnbrokers

They're misc items so those are the only ones I can think of that sell misc items and have it make sense

Clothiers would have to be a weird workaround unfortunately which I might do in the future, idk

But you can also craft them if you have crafting framework

[warm saddle]

There isn't any

Merchants are ripping you off so that you cut down their trees (not inside tho)

[half summit]

really though i just cant get over that you just casually threw in functioning backpacks. im so excited to crack into it and start figuring out the other junk

[warm saddle]

It wouldn't be a good update without abusing the engine once or twice

[hoary siren]

Is there a need to wash your feet?

[rapid valve]

Yes if you are female character your speechcraft goes down when you wash them

[rotund epoch]

When is it coming?

[rough salmon]

idunno

probably somewhere after Poison Song

I assume it would be somewhere in 2026

[lunar tiger]

Guys do you recommend a "rest only in beds" mod that goes well with SD?

[rough salmon]

Tbh for the last few playthroughs I didn't even wait anymore 🧐

Even without that mod

[lunar tiger]

Yeh maybe all I need is to self impose it haha

[rough salmon]

Ehhh, I'd say it's just counter-productive, since you lose needs (and possibly more if you have the mods)

Skill Evolution, for example, decays your skills over time

Taxes every 10 days

Etc etc

[rotund epoch]

yeah, I don't consider resting OP at all if you use needs mod, a tax mod etc.

[rotund epoch]

pro tip: waiting decays skills normally. Resting without a bed decays at 50%. Resting in a bed means no decay.

I avoid waiting whenever possible with my mod setup

it's good when you need to wait 2 hours for a shop to open or sth

but that's it

[rotund epoch]

btw as for this, it's good to know that you can pay taxes at every Census office if they have a member with a high enough rank. You don't have to make a trek to Seyda Neen. For example, I paid taxes in Firewatch to one of the guys on second or third floor.

[rough salmon]

I'm an island dweller

[rough salmon]

I want my sleep habit bonuses

[rotund epoch]

disabled

as soon as I noticed what Insomniac does

cool idea, though

[lunar tiger]

What mods do you recommend for a good challenging survival playthrough? So far I have:
MDMD, Beware the sixth house, HBFS, better merchant skills, SD, NCG and Skill evolution, Shelf control, Sorry we're closed. I disabled burglary overhaul because the current character I want to play doesnt steal at all, so it would just bloat my mod list.

What am I missing?

[rotund epoch]

definitely add a tax mod and Fair Care as well as Take Cover

[rough salmon]

Mercy

lemme check what I have

[lunar tiger]

I've been hesitant to add mercy and those because I've read that they're not the best for performance, and I play in a weak device, are they too bad?

[rough salmon]

You can try it and then decide later

[rotund epoch]

Mercy isn't good performance-wise.

but you can try for yourself

Fair Care should be fine

[lunar tiger]

yeah, that's what ive heard, I'll try it tho

[rotund epoch]

you can use Hunterwind as well

very good mod

fits survival theme as well

also - Lucky Strike will make some fights fucking brutal

[lunar tiger]

oh that's the crit hits one right? I was going to install it and forgot, thanks

[rotund epoch]

yeah

note that with that mod increasing enemy Luck via HBFS makes the fights harder as well as ND's Luck penalty for each player death if you enable it

[lunar tiger]

Man, that mod makes Gaenor 10x more terrifying haha

[rotund epoch]

hahahaha

when you meet a fucking Advanced Centurion and get hit by a crit...

gets even worse if he reflects sth

[warm saddle]

If you’re talking about the new one that just came out, it’s not compatible with this mod. Personally I just always sleep in a bed since you don’t restore much sleep elsewhere

[lunar tiger]

Yeah I think I'll just stop resting without a bed, no mods needed haha

[rotund epoch]

it's not efficient. Very situational

[rough salmon]

• Pursuit
• Creatures Open Doors
• Longer But Weaker Potions
• Dubious Concoctions (and other mods by the author)
• Nerevarine/Corprus Service Refusal
• Dynamic Timescale
• NPCs and Creatures Rest
• Solthas Blight Weather Pack
• Better Blight
• Daedra Use Bound Equipment
• Corprus Cure Nerfed
• Repair Hammers Reworked
• No More Dr. Nerevarine
• Target the Leader
• FMI - Service Refusal and Contraband

[warm saddle]

Although I recommend this mod if you actually want to restore your health and stamina by sleeping in a reasonable way

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/57508

We actually worked on that together when making this mod but he decided to make it a separate mod since it has to imitate vanilla formulas

Well, since he has to do some workaround nonsense but it’s the same workaround that we do in this mod

[rotund epoch]

I recommend disabling creature spawns in Soltha's Blight Weather Pack as they can spawn in the middle of cities and it doesn't make sense and can lead to guards dying as well. Weird. Blight disease caused by blight storms is cool, though. I don't use Pursuit because of jank but I guess that it can work if you mantain a careful blacklist.

[rough salmon]

Pursuit is fine if you blacklist all creatures

NPCs are just fine

[rotund epoch]

oh yeah, I remember a rat following me through a trap door

wtf

[rough salmon]

yeah, slaughterfish liked to followe me into the caves too

[rotund epoch]

unless you use Protective Guards or sth like that

then it will be problematic

[rough salmon]

I do and I don't regret anything

[lunar tiger]

Great list, thanks. btw, does SD adjust itself to dynamic timescale? If I set the time to pass faster when im on the road? Will the needs increase faster too?

[rotund epoch]

yes

I use Dynamic Timescale

the settings I use will probably sound crazy for most, hahah

but SD works

[rough salmon]

Letting other people deal with my enemies harms me by not giving me any skill xp, so it's still something I need to keep in mind

[warm saddle]

Imagine playing without tgm on

Imagine playing at all

[rotund epoch]

crazy

[warm saddle]

Fr fr

[lunar tiger]

what are your settings?

[rotund epoch]

15 for interiors, 45 for cities, 90 for wilderness. I even considered more for wilderness but it's a compromise between gameplay, atmosphere and realism.

[warm saddle]

And 200000 when training or using alchemy

Nah idk what they set it at

[lunar tiger]

maybe a bit too crazy for cities but it makes sense for exteriors, I'll try 90, I like when days pass when walking from a location to another, helps with sense of scale

[untold lotus]

i stole your settings lol

[lunar tiger]

Sorry for the spam but how do you do this blacklist?

[rough salmon]

it's just in the settings of the mod

a toggle

[lunar tiger]

Oh, should've installed the mod before asking lol

[rough salmon]

[untold lotus]

i miss a bit of leeway screenshotting during sunsets and sunrise but otherwise i like how time actually passes and i'm not like unrealistically achieving a bajillion things in very few months

[rotund epoch]

Exactly.

Half of the suggestions I make lead to more believable passage of time 😄

[warm saddle]

Time passing for crafting would be nice but the workaround for doing that is more cursed than I want to touch

[rotund epoch]

with all the mods we have now it also affects challenge. Time = more decay, more needs, more taxes. Oh, and you need to mind the clock to see if the shop isn't closed

[warm saddle]

Yeah but changing the timescale to 200000 can have unintended consequences if that’s what’s happening

[vernal marsh]

Best I Can Do will up difficulty a lot

[lunar tiger]

Man i didn't know that time passed when repairing and I bought 20 hammers and started repairing stuff with level 5 armorer, when I finished I realized 3 days had passed and I was dying of thirst, hunger and tiredness

[rotund epoch]

Going too low is also a bad idea.

[rough salmon]

Skill Evolution moment

[warm saddle]

That would be SE I believe

[rough salmon]

Same for enchanting, recharging, potion brewing and training

[lunar tiger]

Oh yeah, SE, im getting the mods mixed up

[warm saddle]

Yeah I think the timescale is temporarily changed to some crazy value but I’m not sure, I haven’t looked at the code

[rotund epoch]

I avoid repairing items at 98% condition etc. I do it in chunks and mind the time. Tick tack.

[rotund epoch]

It moves the clock

Same as Hunterwind

Everything takes time there

[warm saddle]

Hunterwind uses mwscripts

[rotund epoch]

Yeah

Very immersive mod btw

Works great

[rough salmon]

Still not enough incentive to go hunting for me

[warm saddle]

And changing the time with mwscripts doesn’t play nice with openmw’s lua calendar

[rough salmon]

Great idea, but I don't feel any payout for interacting with it

[warm saddle]

Not enough incentive to install an mwscripts mod for me

[rough salmon]

this too, tbh

[rotund epoch]

The same author made Daypasser fix which is essential

[rough salmon]

works only on every other creature for me

[warm saddle]

Changing a GMST doesn’t fix the engine’s lua calendar

[rotund epoch]

For most animals only. There is a list.

[rough salmon]

Yeah, but I suspect there was just a mod incompatibility

mod was spawning animals near me, but they had non-vanilla record ids

[rotund epoch]

Ah, I merged it

[warm saddle]

But yeah idk I never cared for hunting but I like seeing a hunting knife equipped on my character in Skyrim even if I never use it

[rotund epoch]

Very possible

You must be using sth else

[warm saddle]

I was thinking about making a skinning knife a tool for crafting and allowing you to equip it on your character’s like belt or back or something

[rough salmon]

I would maybe vibe with it if it granted you more mob drops than you can buy for 10 gold xd

[rotund epoch]

You can get many useful ingredients and make money in Hunterwind but it takes time.

[rough salmon]

That's the main issue for me. I'm not a super alchemy enjoyer and it yielded me (at least when I was testing it) very little and cheap drops
But keep in mind that that was from really limited testing

[rotund epoch]

My last character relied on hunting a lot. Current one uses it as support.

[warm saddle]

A hunting skill would be cool I guess but I’d just tie that in with survival although idk there’s a difference between Leatherworking, hunting, and survival

[rough salmon]

And a butt load of carry capacity if you don't prepare everything on the spot

[rotund epoch]

Yes

It's balanced with capacity and time

You don't hold nix hounds in your pocket

Same author also made a Goat mod ;D

[warm saddle]

Too bad it’s not a lua mod otherwise you might be able to customise those things

[rough salmon]

And yet any alchemy trader completely breaks it

[lunar tiger]

Apart from the mods, do you self impose rules on yourself? It seems you play in a very inmersive, RP way

[rotund epoch]

Depends on character. I RP, yeah. I only join factions and do quests which fit the character. I steal if it fits the character. I avoid looting Dunmeri tombs if my character cares about this.

I also use More Exclusive Factions mod

I don't even try doing things like infinite Alchemy loop despite using mods that mostly fix it, anyway. I don't try to break the game unless I'm testing sth.

[rough salmon]

I considered it, but 1) I was afraid of any compatibility issues and b. why add it if you can just RP your way away from them

[rotund epoch]

You can ignore it ofc as it can be handled by house rules. As a rule of thumb, I find in-game rules more immersive than house rules if it makes sense to have those in-game rules. It's perfectly understandable if you don't install the mod because it doesn't affect you, though.

SHOP is cool and all but why use it for a character who never steals, anyway, and suffer lua performance tax?

[rough salmon]

It is more immersive, but compatibility is more important to me (:

did you have any issues with it btw?

[rotund epoch]

So I get it

[rough salmon]

SHOP is cool and all but
it's still buggy ):

[rotund epoch]

Issues? No. The only thing I noticed is that sometimes you can still join if you ask some selected people on the mainland. Some loophole because of TR stuff. Nothing ever broke because of the mod, though.

[rotund epoch]

Well, I had some weird behaviour and a little bit of performance hit with Sheathe Your Weapon mod so I'm not using it despite the mod being nice for immersion.

stuff like that happens

[rough salmon]

yee

[rough salmon]

good to know

[rotund epoch]

I understand when people don't use Mercy because of performance as well

[warm saddle]

Attaching a script to every actor in the game has its price

[rotund epoch]

I don't want to play without Mercy, it's hard to get back. But yeah, understandable

[rough salmon]

attaching a script is not that bad
but attaching an onUpdate handler there IS

[rotund epoch]

I actually hope that it will become more optimized one day. IIRC experimental ver is better but has some small bugs. Max isn't very active nowadays but he mentioned that he may try fixing it blind 😄

[warm saddle]

What about onFrame

[rough salmon]

[warm saddle]

Btw we’re working on a mod that’ll improve the performance cost of using quickloot + Sun’s dusk by 50%

[rough salmon]

well, we have a optimization patch for Reanimations

Maybe it will come out too someday

[rough salmon]

hell yeah
if that's what I'm thinking about, I already have an idea of what I will make using it >:)

specifically this
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/46723

[warm saddle]

The shared onFrame render raycast API?

[rough salmon]

yeeee

[warm saddle]

Yeah actually it was you who put the worm in my head haha

And then I found a Skyrim mod that I want which would be perfect for a shared API

[rough salmon]

You know how happy I am to hear it

[rotund epoch]

Yeah, I guess that Mercy is complex and AI is hard to deal with in MW so it needs somebody talented who will try to handle this without breaking other things.

[half summit]

If you turn off the hotkey to rest, you will only be able to sleep in beds. Boom modded 👍

[rotund epoch]

genius 😄

[lunar tiger]

flawless logic yeah

[warm saddle]

I think the only problem with it for you atm is that it can only get you the information if something is in “range” like when hovering over a static or container like we have in Sun’s dusk and quickloot, we’d have to increase the range or something iirc

Ownlyme was working on the raycast API and ran into that but we’ll see

[rotund epoch]

it sounds like sth that's surprisingly effective xD. I mean, it's the equivalent of turning sth off in the mod options.

[warm saddle]

But yeah it’ll be nice, not that there are many mods using an onFrame render raycast though

But still improving the performance of the two mods will be huge

[rough salmon]

Can't you just calculate the distance of the hit object?

[warm saddle]

Maybe

It might be expensive but that’s kinda the point of a mod like this

Ownlyme is doing the API and I’m doing the mod/settings it won’t be flawless at first obviously but yeah if you’re interested in using its API that’ll definitely help since moving Sun’s dusk and quickloot’s render raycast will be a project

[untold lotus]

i feel it would be cool to have sth like this but it toggles everyone's following status so companions won't feel like playing on easy mode
could just hit a key and run into all fights alone, then hit another and everyone's following again

[warm saddle]

Anything to make companions easier to use

You can install all the difficulty mods you want but nothing is more challenging than playing with a companion using todd’s follower AI package

Sosnoviy has made huge gains in this 🙏

[rough salmon]

The next big step is wiring Attend Me onto the FDU
But I don't want to do it myself yet

[rough salmon]

Next big thing for followers would be Follower Leveling mod I assume

[warm saddle]

Rapport lets you do it but it’s quite boring tbf

[rough salmon]

I haven't played with it much, but maaaaaan Companion Leveler seems expansive

[rough salmon]

Tbh this should be pretty trivial even now 🧐

[untold lotus]

i tried for half a day or smth a few months ago, but I had 5 luamancy skill, lacked the willpower, and got hung up on trying to cache package states globally

[warm saddle]

Pls, I’m tired of asking all my followers to wait anytime I need to aggro and calm someone

[rough salmon]

🧐

[rough salmon]

behold!
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58053

[warm saddle]

Literally will be able to cut out 1000 lines of code from this mod when I move the companion stuff to being a feature for this instead

[rough salmon]

or no, you said you were trying to do it several months ago

Can't wait for all the bug reports it will cause xD

[warm saddle]

Haha we’ll see

Lots of stuff planned for this mod

But I think this was the biggest update as far as “overhauls” though

At least the most tedious/time consuming

Two big workarounds although the backpack was by far the easier one

[untold lotus]

yea that's what i'm thinking. still i don't know anything about lua lol

[rough salmon]

I think I will be stuck in this small mod limbo forever, but I might give making this waiting mod a try

[warm saddle]

Could combine them all together for a follower package QOL mod

Although idk if maintaining a bigger mod is more difficult than maintaining a lot of small ones

[rough salmon]

Ehhhh, I don't think most of my mods overlap in features with each other that much

[warm saddle]

The improved artifacts

You could do a combat one too probably

[rough salmon]

Maybe Friendlier Fire and Target the Leader do, but ehhhh

[warm saddle]

Small mods are nice

Easy to identify and fix problems immediately

This mod tho

[rough salmon]

It would make more sense to straight up make a whole combat overhaul... But since I'm completely fine with current system, I don't think I'm the right person to make this type of global overhaul

[rough salmon]

Do you plan on decoupling the API from the SD in the distant future at least?

[warm saddle]

We’ll see, I’m not sure yet

[rotund epoch]

I don't know whether that's a hot take or not but I'm fine with most of Morrowind's combat. I would never play with a mod like: remove hit chance mechanic from the game as it changes what the game is.

[rough salmon]

Yeah, pretty much same

[half summit]

MW combat is fine but changing it doesn't fundamentally alter the game because it's not a combat focused game

I'd like to see someone attempt instanced turn based combat in MW

[warm saddle]

Would be so cursed but so good

[rotund epoch]

it would be cool if it was made with that isometric mod in mind

I don't know whether it would make any sense to have turn-based combat without a party, though

and MW is focused on solo play

I think that most likely combat mods would go the opposite route, i.e. making MW more action-oriented

[half summit]

Yeah 💯 it would just be super interesting to see

[half summit]

That's the thing you could have your party inside you in a menu like ff7 or pokemon haha

It would be weird but also the potential for interesting encounter is limitless

Im not saying I would invest time and effort in the idea though 😅

[rotund epoch]

I agree. There is certainly a lot of combat but it's just a small part of the whole experience. For example, I would say that exploration is much more important overall and combat is there just to make it more interesting and give some additional challenges. BTW it would be fun to see how much time a player spends on combat, reading dialogue, reading books, travelling, bartering etc. in a playthrough. I kind of wonder myself. Morrowind definitely seems less combat and dungeon focused than Skyrim, for example, because of quest design. Skyrim sends you to a dungeon after dungeon but MW seems to be more varied and you spend much more time in the cities and in the overworld.

[half summit]

Yeah you can go a long time between proper combat sometimes. Not including random creatures

And yeah it feels more like a limiter to your exploration rather than the point of the exploration

[rotund epoch]

if cliff racers were passive, I could go on for hours just admiring the landscape, lol

esp in cozy regions

[half summit]

I like DDs new wildlife mod for this, the really dangerous places need to be sought out.

[rotund epoch]

I like that mod as well although cliff racers seem actually MORE relentless, lol

they get "called in" because of that group behaviour script or whatever

so it's not 1 but 2 or 3

it's just them, though. Other non-blighted animals tend to be more chill and easier to avoid.

I often seek combat to fill those small soulgems with my current character so I'm more of an aggressor than they are

[half summit]

Yeah it makes sense, I have a mod that adds family groups to animals so it looks like they want to protect their young by scaring you away

This is the way 👍

[rough salmon]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/56835

[rotund epoch]

especially with all the dangerous places being things you can easily avoid. I often don't even consider entering Daedric ruins with a starting character so I very rarely encounter any Daedra before the mid-game, for example.

[rough salmon]

[warm saddle]

This seems up in your territory

[rough salmon]

no

please no

[warm saddle]

Seems doable in openmw with some camera shenanigans but you’re more comfortable with the combat API than I am

Hmm

I’m kinda tired of hearing ppl complain about the tents being temporary
It’s kinda a fair complaint but ownlyme doesn’t want a tent that costs like 1000g up front and weighs a ton which is fair tbh

[rough salmon]

I'm fine with sleeping bags being a limited resource

Maybe having a more expensive/demanding but permanent counterpart would be nice too

[warm saddle]

Personally I don’t camp or use tents, just set up fires every once in a while so idfk what they feel like in an actual playthrough

[rough salmon]

Upgrading backpacks with exotic materials sounds interesting 👀

With daedra skin and stuff

[warm saddle]

Daedric backpack?

[lunar tiger]

durability + repair 😍

[rough salmon]

Treat it as more durable material for backpacks

[warm saddle]

I probably wouldn’t mind doing some more crafting stuff with the update

Obviously it won’t be a requirement but people should use it regardless

[rough salmon]

hell nah

[warm saddle]

Durability wouldn’t be something that you’d do with a repair hammer, you’d be interacting with the tent in some way

It would probably play out like soap having charges but instead of only eating up charges you’d be able to restore them too

It would also probably be a setting since things like that could get clunky idk

[lunar tiger]

Man i know nothing of modding so don't mind me if I'm saying crazy stuff: Can't you use crafting framework for repairing? Like use your damaged tent + leather to repair it?

[warm saddle]

Yeah I guess that’s possible

[rough salmon]

Where my "Mod manager download" button

[warm saddle]

Good question

Ok fixed

Damn I was really pressing every button out there last night

It was a long day

[rotund epoch]

it's a similar thing functionality-wise. In fact, current backpacks/tents may actually be more convenient for the player as you only buy what you need. With durability it would be full cost up-front. I guess that some people expect the tent or bedroll to be cheap and last forever but that would be a bit eh as you engage with the mechanic once and then forget about it. Also, if these things are heavy then players may be encouraged to ignore them altogether and that's also not desirable. I already consider tents to have very limited utility compared to the bedrolls gameplay-wise. They cost and weight more and the benefits seem small so it seems best to just roll with bedrolls. If tents weighted like 5 or 10 times what they do ATM but provided same functionality then I would never even consider using them. Waste of space for... what, exactly?

[half summit]

Vibes mostly

[rotund epoch]

yeah, so it's just the visuals

as tents seem dubious

[warm saddle]

I’m thinking more like putting 3 charges on them like soap has atm

[rotund epoch]

so a sort of "durability"

[warm saddle]

Yeah

[rotund epoch]

but it leads to similar results

maybe just fewer complaints

[warm saddle]

Pretty much just a little more convenience

[rotund epoch]

I would think about giving tents a little bit more utility. I haven't really analyzed this in detail as I don't consider it that important but it really seems that tents are there for vibes only.

[half summit]

Yeah the issue is the interface not the feature. People perceive it as weird because technically the are carrying 20 tents but if it said tent (20 uses) no one would mind

[rotund epoch]

Yep. Same thing but different UI.

[warm saddle]

Yeah atm that’s pretty much it, I could give tents a crafting station and maybe a place to set up your food + tea but we’ll see

The POTI people really love the camping and tents for whatever reason and not having a camping system as sophisticated as Campfire from Skyrim has caused some confusion haha

[rotund epoch]

you can put the tea pot on the ground and use it that way

crafting station.... there is no crafting module in SD outside cooking if you don't use other mods

[warm saddle]

Yeah but I mean like, you put down your tent and it puts down your teapot too

And when you cook at your campfire it places your food in front of you as well

And you can eat directly from it by hovering over with a tooltip

Can’t give too much away tho 👀

[warm saddle]

I mean putting an item down when camping that when you interact with it, pulls up the crafting UI

[rotund epoch]

I guess that some additional benefits could be considered, e.g. tents could prevent you from getting the blight disease in a blight storm (when using Solthas' mod) or from getting cold in cold climate if that's implemented

[warm saddle]

You can choose different recipes for different stations/activators as well

They already provide cover from storms but there isn’t much of an indication of that I guess

[half summit]

Yeah like how Camping Gear does the little set up is nice. Adding fur lining upgrades and such would be cool

[rotund epoch]

if there are some "hidden" features then it would help to make them more apparent. Sell me the tent.

[half summit]

It's pretty

[warm saddle]

Have to make a UI for each of them in-game

Or are you talking about them now ?

[rotund epoch]

now

you say they provide cover from storms

whatever that means

how do I know that in-game?

[warm saddle]

Temperature tooltip

[rotund epoch]

you rest in a tent

that's it

how can I check tooltips then?

[warm saddle]

When you set up camp and are near your tent, there are 2 additional temperature modifiers:

• Comfort (temperature drifting towards comfortable)
• Cover (protection from the windchill effects of storms)

As far as other benefits, you have improved sleep quality in your tent compared to a bedroll (the same as an inn)

[rotund epoch]

that's good to know

[warm saddle]

If you have a tent and campfire, you also get a small willpower buff and more cooking aptitude

[rotund epoch]

so it's about vicinity

[warm saddle]

Yeah

[rotund epoch]

it's not exactly clear tbh

at least not in-game

[warm saddle]

I can only write so many books

Jk jk haha yeah I’m writing one on camping + woodcutting

Bathing too

[half summit]

Nice, your books are quality

[warm saddle]

Thank you haha

I constantly worry about them being too long but also it’s a huge mod and I don’t want people to have to look at the mod description constantly

We might be getting audiobooks for them tho 👀 we’ll see

[rotund epoch]

Cooking book is not too long and is has useful info. The only bit that sounds off is the one about "producing named recipes". The rest is great

[warm saddle]

Hey if I can write 4500 words and only 3 are worded weirdly, I’ll take that success rate

But yeah nah the book for cooking will be getting some improvements in the next few updates, mostly when I add the publican stuff

[rotund epoch]

BTW I consider SD 9.5/10 mod in general . Both before and after the latest update. IMO we are in a stage when it's getting better because it can be done and not because it's essential for mod functionality

[lunar tiger]

one or two years ago the only morrowind related thing that hyped me was Tamriel Rebuilt, because I knew new stuff is always coming and they're an amazing team. But openmw is going through such a golden age that I'm more hyped about what mods will come in the next few years than TR.

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[warm saddle]

My mod isn’t functional until I have a barista sim

Let’s just say that the cooking update was a tutorial for what you can expect

[lunar tiger]

oh obviously, I'm still extremely hyped about TR, but also LUA mods are getting so good and there's so much new stuff that no one could have imagined...

[rotund epoch]

It's been functional for a long time but Dynamic Needs is what will make it stand out even more as immersive fantasy sim

[warm saddle]

Yeah I’m kinda thinking about throwing something together for that, I kinda wanted an API so that anyone can make whatever modifiers they want but I don’t want to beg ownlyme for more APIs until he recovers from cooking