Sun's Dusk: Needs & Survival

[rotund epoch]

btw what do you need governing attribute for? Do you want to implement cooking trainers? 😄

[rough salmon]

Willpower (to get out of the bed and go cooking)

[rotund epoch]

what do you think a modder's job requires the most? Probably Willpower and Endurance to deal with all the bugs, testing required, engine oddities etc.

[tepid sedge]

why is nobody voting for intelligence? same theme as alchemy.. you need experience, creativity, sensoric ability and planning to make a great tasting meal.. or not?

[rotund epoch]

Intelligence is just Magicka in Morrowind

as for RL?

eh

the good cooks I know aren't exactly highly intelligent

if I'm honest

in fact, many scientists would be useless in the kitchen

you wouldn't want to eat stuff made by them...

[warm saddle]

Alchemical potions don't have to taste good

[rotund epoch]

yeah...

medical drugs often taste horrible IRL

also, considering the fact that my late grandmother was a great cook and she barely had any knowledge about the world and once even called whale "a fish"...

[warm saddle]

Yeah the best cooks I've known are all illiterate, as in they were never taught how to read

[rotund epoch]

well, recipes are useful but if you rely on your experience, you can still be a good cook

[civic patio]

3 seems to match 24 hour cycle with timescale = 15

[half summit]

some of my best friends are career chefs, im pretty sure they ran on purely willpower (with some.. ahem.. supplement..)

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/cook-breaking-bad-hoodie-gif-13536614

[half summit]

oh you know some too?

[warm saddle]

Can verify

[rotund epoch]

Career chefs? I knew only one.

However, I'm of the opinion that you can find a good BB meme for every situation

[rough salmon]

I don't think this should count as a real stove 🧐

This will make a superb grill though

[warm saddle]

Do you know if that mod author is still active ?

I think he is

[half summit]

glittergear? yeah i think so

[civic patio]

Hey. You were right on this part and I was wrong. But I was also right at the same time. Morrowind code fooling both of us.

I am correct in that Drain Fatigue as an Ability does the same thing as if it is on an Enchanted item as a Constant Effect (which was what I tested and video'd).

I was wrong with Damage Fatigue. It actually lowers your Maximum Fatigue per second if it is an Ability (!?). But your Current Fatigue if it is an Constant Effect. Todd code

I found a solution that is a very easy replacement too. Just change it to Restore Fatigue negative value. It works just like negative Sound works. Already tested it in-game and its working like a charm.

[charred tide]

Can I send you a donation of -100€ ?

I'm just joking. This could be a solid solution

[civic patio]

I've tinkered a bit with how I would prefer the sleep buff/debuffs to be. I think I like this combo I've come up with. Just sharing it here for anyone to criticize:

• All the Drain Attribute effects are completely negated by casting Restore Attribute or visiting a Temple Shrine/Cult Altar (Drain/Damage Attribute is only applied once).

• So I replaced Drain Agility with a Blind effect, which does mostly the same thing insofar as combat goes.
• Also added Sound to give a matching debuff for Magic classes. The sound effect is a problem however. So might have to skip this unless getting a sound effect replacer.

• Since I use NCG Fortify Endurance is not doing anything to give a little HP boost.

• Replaced Fortify Attributes with Fortify Health & Fortify Max Magicka
  (Fortify Health actually fortifies Maximum Health as an Ability lmao)

• Replaced Drain Fatigue with a negative Restore Fatigue.

• Regarding Drain Personality... I don't know a replacement. I thought about if setting a negative Charm on yourself would somehow give negative disposition to NPCs around you... but I doubt that works

Numbers I'm just testing with now (completely guesstimated but I think they are reasonable):

 - Fortify Health 12 pts
 - Fortify Max Magicka 0.4x
Rested
 - Fortify Health 6 pts
 - Fortify Max Magicka 0.2x
Awake
 - Fortify Health 3 pts
 - Fortify Max Magicka 0.1x
Drowsy
 - Restore Fatigue -1 pts
Tired
 - Restore Fatigue -2 pts
 - Sound 5 pts
 - Blind 5 pts
Exhausted
 - Restore Fatigue -3 pts
 - Sound 10 pts
 - Blind 10 pts```

[civic patio]

Hey. I'd really like to test out your mod too! But I got stuck on the "needs a new save" part.

[charred tide]

At this point I have also switched to Sun's Dusk. So, I'll probably no longer continue working on Devilish Needs

[civic patio]

Maybe this will suit better as it does the -max fatigue as you intended 🙂

The noise for the Sound spell is this one \Morrowind\Data Files\Sound\Fx\magic\sound.wav. Easy to replace with a silent track or something better.

[rotund epoch]

I didn't know that negative values are possible for Fortify and Restore effects. Interesting. That's good to know. Not sure what Toddisms are involved here, though . Does Vanilla use negative values for anything?

Blind for tiredness has a visual effect which may be annoying in standard gameplay. Same with Sound and audio effect unless it's possible to edit it out only for this particular case. Removing the sound effect entirely because of minor effect for tiredness would be overkill IMO. Not worth it. Obviously talking about the potential changes to the main mod version here, not personal mod edits which are always fine

I don't see a problem with using restoration magic or shrines to counter the drain effects from low needs. If somebody wants to use restore attribute to keep going, it's actually quite cool. It's a temporary solution, the effects will be reapplied on status change (there are 3 primary needs + dirtiness + wetness + temperature effects and each one is tracked separately, so a lot is going on already). You will eventually want to eat, drink and sleep, anyway, and it won't save you from death due to dehydration or starvation if you go overboard. It's a bit like using restore attribute to counter disease effects if you can't cure them. Def possible but you still want to get rid of disease eventually.

[rotund epoch]

Btw it would be hilarious to get a random scripted passing out effect if somebody has Exhausted status for a long time. Imagine passing out on Balmora's street, waking up 2-3 hours later and discovering that your money was stolen, lmao ... or a nix hound pack waking you up in the wilderness

[warm saddle]

Yeah I do negative stuff often, like the negative sound effect on a few abilities increases cast chance by a lot

And yeah I'll never put blind on an ability xD maybe a spell like for getting drunk or something but not as an actual mechanic

[gloomy mango]

eats raw human flesh
doesn’t get prions disease and doesn’t start hearing voices
0/10 mod

🤣

[warm saddle]

Try eating a few pieces of corprus meat

I started my skyrim run and let's just say I've got some nasty ideas 😏

Not sure why I decided to do an alternate start at the bottom of the sea of ghosts in a shipwreck with no land nearby

[gloomy mango]

Based

I love making my experience harder

[warm saddle]

It's rough out here

I've had to reset so many times

No fire shield spell yet

[gloomy mango]

I started TTW recently and with all the difficulty adjustments I have installed I died to the level 1 raiders in the elementary school outside the vault 6 times

[rotund epoch]

This gives me an idra. Artifacts in the lore often change owners in mysterios way. Daedric equipmemt is made by using Daedra souls. Prolonged exposure could cause some sort of madness... hallucinations...

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/my-man-my-man-hd-my-man4k-gif-23532578

[gloomy mango]

(I also recently started F76 and bloody hell a toddler could breeze through it… one shotting super mutants and “legendary enemies”)

[gloomy mango]

One of my mods - lore accurate artefacts makes the staff of Magnus fuck off forever if the player gets to level 30 with 100 Int and Wil due to this line:

“The Staff of Magnus, one of the elder artifacts of Tamriel, was a metaphysical battery of sorts for its creator, Magnus. When used, it absorbs an enemy's health and mystical energy. In time, the Staff will abandon the mage who wields it before he becomes too powerful and upsets the mystical balance it is sworn to protect.”

[rotund epoch]

Yeah and all artifacts eventually abandon their owners

[rotund epoch]

I have a similar opinion about Vanilla Skyrim. Easy peasy. Difficulty mods are essential IMO to get any sort of challenge.

[gloomy mango]

A mod that gives all artifacts this random chance… added to my mod idea list

[warm saddle]

Thank god for sky parkour holy shit

[rotund epoch]

Making the chance based on level, stats, feats and/or number of other powerful artifacts could be funny. Maybe abandonment would be sth like final stage.

[warm saddle]

I made it out of the freezing water and tried to climb on an iceberg and clipped through it and fell back into the freezing water

Need a parkouring mod for morrowind

I think CHIM climbing is the closest

[rotund epoch]

Falling on ice, let's go

[rough salmon]

it's clunky :(

but still better than nothing

actually helped me scale one daedric ruin to get to an ebony battle axe

[gloomy mango]

Added to the never ending list

[rough salmon]

they just go for cigs

[gloomy mango]

I’m not a fan of how unfluid it feels. Since it kind of plays a climb motion rather than a jump like the mwse version

[rotund epoch]

Walking - low chance. Running - high chance. High Agility and Luck make it easier

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/nope-rocket-nothing-to-do-here-stickman-gif-5631830

Mod thumbnail

[rotund epoch]

how do you play Skyrim btw? Do you use a pre-made modlist or build your own?

[warm saddle]

Console doesn't have modpacks so I had to do that all manually but this year I decided to treat myself and do it all on pc

So yeah I did a modpack but I had to customise it a bit ...

Gates of Sovngarde at Savle's recommendation

idk I think i'm just incapable of doing a modpack, the custom mods I've added on make it at least 30% larger

Can't live without my animation compilation/almalexia casting animations

But also I don't like skyrim enough to spend a billion hours modding it xD i'm fine with someone telling me how to play the game

[rotund epoch]

yeah, I would probably grab some big modlist as well

they usually allow for some customisation in-game

[rough salmon]

too many mods to sieve through

and even more adult mods to just skip

[rotund epoch]

🧐

[rough salmon]

🧐

[rotund epoch]

the amount of BS you have to go through on the Skyrim Nexus is astounding but there are some real gems here and there

lmfao

[rough salmon]

yeah
and they should be added by a recommendation and not by looking through Nexus

[rotund epoch]

loooooooooooooool

[rough salmon]

fucking hell 🚬

[rotund epoch]

Skyrim modding is an experience 😄

[vernal marsh]

I just do Skyrim vanilla

[gloomy mango]

I hate coomers so much it’s unreal, love from Scotland

I’m looking forward to my next Skyrim play through. Going to install a bunch of mods to make it more like Morrowind, as I haven’t gone back to it since first playing III a couple of years ago

[vernal marsh]

I first played it 14 years ago. is sleeping

[warm saddle]

I can't do the UI anymore

I was going crazy

[vernal marsh]

Peak UI smh

The DOLL

[gloomy mango]

Lovely 6 whole items visible at once

[rotund epoch]

The worst one in vanilla TES IMO

It was obviously made with consoles in mind

I consider it unplayable for PC

UI and level scaling need to "fixed" with mods before one can even start playing Oblivion IMO

[warm saddle]

Of the 2600 mods I have for skyrim I think about 500 are for the UI and 300 are for bug fixes / making a bethesda engine remotely usable but tbh the worst part is the keybindings

The only ES game I've played on PC is morrowind so like ... I had to bind the menu to right click

Like what am I supposed to do with two whole hands for spellcasting/weapons

[rotund epoch]

I never play with right click menu

[warm saddle]

I love it

[rotund epoch]

I use RMB for spells

LMB for weapons

Tab for menu (inventory)

[warm saddle]

Yeah that's somewhat default I think, well spells/weapon for hands is personal preference

[rotund epoch]

yeah

[warm saddle]

Tab I use for the quest menu i think, but ctrl I use for quick menu in morrowind

[rotund epoch]

I use K for quest menu

IIRC

[warm saddle]

Wait yeah I have it as j

What do i have on tab

[rotund epoch]

because of that keybinding bug with search/alchemy menus I moved most modded keybinds to remote stuff like *

[rough salmon]

yeah, sounds like MWSE experience to me alright

[rough salmon]

third person camera?

[warm saddle]

Oh yeah

That

haha

[rough salmon]

same as morrowind btw

[warm saddle]

Yeah I changed it I think

I think it was like stealth or something before

[rotund epoch]

I don't use it as a toggle. I use the mouse scroller for smooth transition

[rotund epoch]

ctrl or C

[warm saddle]

Yea I wish i could but can't unfortunately

[rotund epoch]

why?

do you use a controller?

[warm saddle]

No haha, I get seizures and have neurological problems alongside those and certain kinds of movements really fucks me up

[rotund epoch]

oh damn

[warm saddle]

any kind of swaying or certain camera movements, idk

[rotund epoch]

you must love motion blur in gaming

[warm saddle]

Nope

[rotund epoch]

man, I disable that shit almost every time

[warm saddle]

That shit goes off immediately

[rotund epoch]

it usually looks ugly af

just annoys me

many games also have shitty depth of field effects

like they look so damn bad that it's astounding

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/169187 another interesting mod btw

[warm saddle]

Interesting haha

[rotund epoch]

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

[warm saddle]

Lmaoooo

I love that omg

Could do that for morrowind too

[rotund epoch]

it sounds like a perfect mod for some meme stream. @hearty knot

[tepid sedge]

nope, not after i spent 15 hours on this

and you will not complain

[hearty knot]

Meh, honestly not how I like to play. I would probably get more views if I did challenge runs, but it's not something I'm good at nor care about. 🙂 And the same pretty much goes for any kind of live streams. I don't like them as a concept.

[rotund epoch]

Yeah, sure. I know that people often enjoy those.

as for me, I find smooth sailing streams the most boring

Skyrim stealth archer

how exciting

https://tenor.com/view/eye-roll-ugh-stanley-hudson-leslie-david-baker-rolls-eyes-gif-16850821

[hearty knot]

I just don't like how live streaming takes the players' attention from the game. Period.

[rotund epoch]

yep

actually this reminds me of sth

ahahahahah

I will find the link

[hearty knot]

A game worth playing deservers your full attention.

[warm saddle]

skyrim stealth archer, 0 armor bound weapons edition

[warm saddle]

Very respectable

[hearty knot]

A cynical way to put it would be "I care more about games than about people" 😄

[rotund epoch]

https://youtu.be/FVr1NdZ0Pl0?si=UkSyUNOwBgqwJjPC check this shit out

some stremers are actually MORE obnoxious than that

funny video

[hearty knot]

I like making blind let's plays and I'm convinced they would get more attention as streams, but that's just not me. I don't see myself ever streaming, but if I do, I'll do my damnest to ignore chat 😄

[half summit]

yeah i wanted to do a mod that every time you go to prison the game starts again

[half summit]

did you see #1443431228287094946 ?
still very early but its got some very interesting stuff going on, it already feels good to not get stuck on waist high walls. very dangerous indoors though

[civic patio]

@warm saddle I think I fixed this error the same way you applied the temperature hotfix (if not tempData then return end):

I had to do it at two locations, because after fixing the first error a new one popped up. Let me know if something looks wrong. But it seems to be fine in-game now.

In module_clean.lua

FROM

    local locationModifier = 1.0
    local weatherModifier = 1.0```

TO
```local function getDirtinessModifier(onlyLocationDirtModifier)
    if not cleanData then return end
    local locationModifier = 1.0
    local weatherModifier = 1.0```

2.
FROM
```local function module_clean_minute(clockHour, minute, minutesPassed)
    if G_isInWater > 0 then
        local equipment = types.Actor.getEquipment(self)```

TO
```local function module_clean_minute(clockHour, minute, minutesPassed)
    if not cleanData then return end
    if G_isInWater > 0 then
        local equipment = types.Actor.getEquipment(self)```

Now I no longer get bathed in errors. 😅

[warm saddle]

You could disable that with the log settings but I’ve refactored the bathing module since then xD but I’m glad you were able to fix it for your game

[proven nymph]

Isn’t that just Starfield?

[rough salmon]

I don't know why, but sometimes my food and water from SD just disappears from inventory

And then reappears too

And I still can't figure out the pattern

[civic patio]

What do you mean. A setting inside Sun's Dusk? I've turned all to minimum or off already. If you mean to disable logging script errors globally in OpenMW I would never do that xD

Feature Request

• Restrict Resting to Sun's Dusk state 2-6. If state 1, you cannot rest.
  • You need to feel tired in order to rest.

Obviously disabled by default.

If this is implemented my masochist mode gameplay experience is now almost complete.

[warm saddle]

There are 5 levels of debug logs in Sun's Dusk, if you have level 5 enabled you'll get a lot of spam haha, like at least 4 prints onFrame or something ridiculous

[civic patio]

Ok yeah this is not debug logs, its a script error.

[warm saddle]

Not sure if that's possible without the rest menu being dehardcoded, all I can do is prevent you from having your sleep restored

[civic patio]

I think it is. Based on No Rest Without Beds - [DaisyHasaCat] (https://gitlab.com/daisyhasacat/zackscripts/-/tree/master/NoRest) it should be possible to borrow some code from there and only prevent the sleep menu if you are "Well-Rested".

[warm saddle]

Yeah, I'm not going to override a global mwscript

[civic patio]

I guess perhaps doing it the other way around, applying a condition inside the No Rest script which further checks for Sun's Dusk tiredness state not being Well-Rested. Maybe a simpler solution?

[warm saddle]

Not sure if daisy would want to do that but I certainly will not be the one to ask since i'm not remotely interested in this feature at all

But the code is all open source, feel free to hack away at it if you want

[tepid sedge]

that shit is already fixed

[rotund epoch]

Which one? 💩

[tepid sedge]

idk a lot of it, so many changes

just wait for the update

[warm saddle]

We've refactored over 8000 lines of code haha

[civic patio]

I've got an idea of how to hack it away. I just need to find out what the expression for it is....

Something like:
if not Self.SpellEffect == "Well-Rested"

[warm saddle]

1. That's not remotely what you'd be doing for removing an ability
2. Sun's Dusk is an engine in itself, as in there are more event handlers in this mod than in openmw There's a whole API for applying and removing abilities, if you removed an ability from the player with types.Actor.spells(self):remove it would just be applied again on the next frame

[civic patio]

huh. I don't want to do anything like that.

You know what. I will ask in the relevant channel instead if you don't feel like this is something you are interested in anyway.

[warm saddle]

You now need a bowl or plate to cook and depending on your ingredients, you get different food on your plate or bowl :) it’s returned to you after you eat it

[proven nymph]

Ooh nice

[warm saddle]

Just 25 different recipes atm, I have 30 more to add at some point

[rough salmon]

@warm saddle got any idea on why that happens?

[warm saddle]

Oh srry I just saw this now

The generated bottles and food?

[rough salmon]

yeah

[tepid sedge]

entirely disappearing without getting empty containers in return?

[rough salmon]

yes

[tepid sedge]

ui bug?

[warm saddle]

Do you use of bead and feather?

[rough salmon]

yes, and SD patch too

[warm saddle]

Yeah that would be why

His global is broken

[rough salmon]

[warm saddle]

The only option is for him to fix it or for me to hack it which I don't really want to do

[half summit]

he was asking for reports on the fix

[rough salmon]

well, there it goes then

[warm saddle]

But I've already told him about it and I get bug reports on it all the time but there really isn't anything I can do haha

Disable his .omwscripts but keep the textures and meshes in your cfg so that you don't get a bunch of

[proven nymph]

I thought lua mods are sandboxed in openMW and there are no globals

[rough salmon]

global scope scripts

[proven nymph]

Rip

[warm saddle]

Everything we do with containers is in global events so it would be very easy for him to blacklist everything we do, he just doesn't :')

[rotund epoch]

leave that bed alone

[rough salmon]

nah, that's just medieval self-heating blanket

[tepid sedge]

lets just ignore that and go with intelligence

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/jedi-council-star-wars-council-has-spoken-gif-17632756

[tepid sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-sp2-gif-11772773330043840102

its just gonna be every fifth level up or so anyway

[rotund epoch]

doesn't even seem like Cooking should impact level ups Vanilla-style as it's always a misc skill

[rotund epoch]

since SD is an "engine in itself", we need a separate name for SD-related jank and bugs

Toddisms won't cut it

we need a name for all these EldaFIREs, fake wells etc.

maybe SaDisms

[gloomy mango]

Luck

https://tenor.com/view/food-simpsons-homer-cereals-milk-gif-3451486

[hearty knot]

gotta learn that sleight of cauldron

[rotund epoch]

Cooking relies on Luck sooooo little. If you know someone who is a great cook, they will probably keep making that good stuff over and over again. Also, if you stick to recipes, you will end up with the same results with only slight variations here and there.

[hearty knot]

unless you go for that luck-based cooking build irl

[rotund epoch]

you mean when someone who can't cook for shit just randomly comes up with sth serviceable? I guess that if you keep adding random shit, you will eventually get sth decent that other cooks included in their recipes 20 years ago

[hearty knot]

I want Cook to be a fully playable playstyle á la Bardcraft

[rough salmon]

potion thrower integration?

[rotund epoch]

throwing stews at people?

[rough salmon]

it's hot

[rotund epoch]

fire dmg

[half summit]

throwing ingredients at your bowl?

[hearty knot]

Oh here's something that we should really be able to do: cook drugs.

... sweet moonsugar...

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/wanna-cook-walter-white-breaking-bad-breaking-bad-gif-14861220737540908819

[hearty knot]

Outsell all the skooma dens and become the skooma magnate of Tamriel.

Dethrone the Elsweyr Mane and establish a skooma-based economy.

[tepid sedge]

the current formula is cooking + alchemy/10 + shortblade/10 + luck/20 + intelligence/100 + racial bonuses

[civic patio]

Hello. I have rewritten a few lines in No Rest Without Beds in order to make it work along with Sun's Dusk sleepstate. If you are also using No Rest script you can use this and it will now prevent you from Resting in beds if you already are fully rested (Well-Rested). Enjoy! 🙂

#1171262972987969587 message

[astral mauve]

lingenveneth

Attachment(s)

nosleep.lua

Linked by @​lingenveneth from #No Rest Without Beds: OpenMW Port · Jan 12, 2026, 2:49 AM

[warm saddle]

True haha

But Todd’s engine is janky in itself so some janks are to be expected idk what they can be called though

[warm saddle]

Yeah I do that for my followers

Thing is atm you wouldn’t get your plates back and it doesn’t restore your hunger by using potion thrower, I keep forgetting to add interop for that

Not MD asking about an expanded loot food for cooking expansion

Idfk the formulas I would even use to make creating recipes for those bearable

[warm saddle]

@half summit Right now I just have generic recipes, like “combine 1 mushroom, 1 salt and 1 veggie to get creamy mushroom soup (name is subject to change, don’t sue me ||n*ntendo|| )” but I also have a few in the works for Affa’s, not to mention notes/books for recipes

If anyone wants to help me with any of the above I’d appreciate it

I was planning on this update just being 1.6.5 but if I develop the cooking skill more and add cookbooks/recipes this would bump it up to 1.7

[warm saddle]

The new cooking

Need to polish where they appear in the bowls and plates still but that’s easy enough

[rotund epoch]

Very nice. It's the amount of detail that most games don't have tbh.

[low ocean]

soooo amazing

even little UI things like little ingredients popping up over the pot

[proven nymph]

Ah the meshes look so good

[warm saddle]

Yeah and meshes aren’t needed for each bowl/plate + food combination, they’re attached with lua

Sun’s dusk continues to stay under 10 mb

[low ocean]

optimized lua mods? In my game?

[rotund epoch]

Gameboy-compliant

[charred tide]

Feel free to use my meshes btw. I particularly like how the soups have animated bubbles.

You could just copy them over in Nifskope if you need them

[half summit]

yeah you did some gorgeous stuff with the nifs in DN

[charred tide]

That's a nice way of describing my kitbashing.

[warm saddle]

Yeah I like them a lot, just not sure how we could use them atm haha

Maybe when we add grilling

But I especially like your stew and pot messages and stuff

[warm saddle]

Hahaha oh god we could do that with the food meshes

But we’ll see

Adding meshes to items is very cursed but obviously with these we can just swap them out

[charred tide]

the bubbling animation of the soup alone is worth it

and the steam

[warm saddle]

Yeah I’ve got my eyes on that steam haha

Oh wait you have meshes for affa’s recipes yeah?

[charred tide]

yes

[proven nymph]

yoink

[charred tide]

There are some artistic liberties here, especially if there were more than three ingredients

[rotund epoch]

oh, I liked those

[rotund epoch]

Interesting. I thought you weren't much interested in this.

[warm saddle]

I already have the recipes and wildcards for them haha, I just need the meshes xD

[charred tide]

Download my mod 🗣️

[warm saddle]

Haha I love think I still have it in my folders somewhere but yeah thank you, I appreciate it

[warm saddle]

I still don’t but I need to prove that it’s possible in openmw

(It is btw)

[rotund epoch]

well, I don't see how it wouldn't be

although you probably mean real-time grilling

[warm saddle]

Yup

[rotund epoch]

ok

[charred tide]

you could swap out a mesh for a grilled mesh

it's just tedious

[warm saddle]

Real time grilling and brewing tea is possible haha

Cooking too I guess but that would be too much

[rotund epoch]

you already do it "real-time" but you don't have to wait

like you use the items in-game

outside of inventory

real-time

there is just no waiting period

[warm saddle]

No I mean like visually watching something grill or watching boil water haha

[rotund epoch]

yeah

like in Red Dead Redemption 2

you had animations for everything including making coffee

[warm saddle]

That’s gonna wait until my barista module haha

[rotund epoch]

one of my favorite things there was waking up and making coffee in the wilderness after resting

[proven nymph]

hycinth is just modding too fast 😭

I can't keep up

[hearty knot]

"Can you walk a bowl of modded soup across the map in Morrowind?"

[warm saddle]

Alright lads

[proven nymph]

other (unspecified)

[warm saddle]

Hahaha

I actually just found the API for writing books with lua so I think I will work on that

[rapid valve]

WHAT?!

What?!

That exists ?

[warm saddle]

Yeah apparently

[rapid valve]

You mean you can write a book in game? Doesn't need to be already defined in your .esp/.omwaddon?

[warm saddle]

Yeah

[rapid valve]

That's very cool

I wonder if you can keep adding pages to it forever so it can grow and grow

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure haha, I'm writing cooking recipes and some of them have to be in the .esp I think since I'm adding them to NPC's inventories ? But there's one book that would be handy for lua

[warm saddle]

That's what I'm going for haha

(not the forever part tho)

[rotund epoch]

Isn't there a mod for this?

[warm saddle]

Maybe but I don't use it

[half summit]

Scribo lets you write books. its a cool mod but it was a bit much for me, a more slimline version would be good

[rotund epoch]

That's the one. I had a FPS issue but it was supposedly fixed. The mod looked good. Might try the latest version.

[half summit]

yeah the fix helped a lot, it is worth checking out imo

[charred tide]

Hi, just to get back to this. Nowadays I think a simple feather enchantment is the better approach. And yes, using ralts vfx method to apply a backpack mesh to a bone would be a gamechanger for backpacks in OpenMW. My backpack mod is a bit jank, I should replace / remove it someday.

Ralts explained his vfx method in detail but it's still difficult to copy.

[rotund epoch]

The mesh would fix the jank so there is that.

I like your OG idea, though

Maybe it cannot be done properly yet

[charred tide]

Just limiting the carry capacity and giving players a feather enchantment is enough. Putting things into the backpack as a container is usually just more annoying. Especially if you need to be fast.

Instead, one could focus on displaying the items in the inventory on the backpack such as instruments, potions, cooking pans

[rotund epoch]

Limiting carry weight by GMST affects everyone btw

Careful with that. We don't need stuck NPCs or to make Damage STR any stronger

[charred tide]

maybe, jank weights are the way to go 😉

[rotund epoch]

Guess that HBFS could be used to compensate

[rapid valve]

Which Ralts mod is this that used vfx?

[charred tide]

its a mesh attached to a bone

#1365567645276962817 message

[astral mauve]

_ralts_

this is how bardcraft does it:

1. add a bone to each skeleton that the mesh will be attached to (this is what the .nif files in animations/ are for), you can do this in nifskope by copying and editing meshes/xbase_anim.nif, xbase_anim_female.nif, and xbase_animkna.nif from morrowind.bsa with your new bones (relevant doc page)
2. make a "sheathed" copy of the mesh you want to attach (necessary due to an api bug where meshes attached as vfx will no longer be interactable until you restart)
3. in a global script, add an ItemUsage handler for the item's type that sends an event to a player script with the object's record id if it's a valid sheathable item
4. in the player script, make a local variable that tracks the sheathed item's record id, listen for the above event, if the received id is the same as the equipped one, unequip it, otherwise equip it
5. make a player script function (see setSheatheVfx in performer.lua) that first checks if the sheathed record id is still valid (still in the player's inventory), and if it is, attach your sheathed version of the item's mesh to your new bone, otherwise remove it
6. run that function whenever the sheathed id changes, BUT there are a few more instances where vfx gets reset and you will have to re-run it, notably when changing between first/third person, and after resting -- bardcraft calls it in onActive, UiModeChanged, onFrame on the next frame after a camera mode change, and onUpdate after a jump in gameTime (meant to detect resting)

Linked by @​detaildevil from #Bardcraft · Nov 11, 2025, 3:41 AM

[brazen reef]

Understandable if this is just not something interesting/popular enough, but there are definitely people like me who prefer annoying and slow solutions that increase the game’s verisimilitude

Taking off my backpack to wash at the Balmora baths or unloading stuff from it in front of the merchant is 👌

[half summit]

yeah i want to do this so badly but my skill level means its a long process

i think the same method could be used to add extra clothing slots

functionally at least

[charred tide]

I currently have my focus on other things like pacifiying more Npcs, removing daedra, daedric shrines / ancestral tombs and maybe even Sixth House stuff (they are the main enemy and I find their mountain rather lackluster). Only seelof managed to portray the Sixth House as scary and powerful.

[warm saddle]

If I had the mesh/animation files for the backpack using the bone workaround ralts found, I can do the lua stuff no prob

[warm saddle]

Alright what did we want to have done with backpacks? xD

Idk if it’ll be in the next update but we’ll see

[rotund epoch]

Depends how complex you want it to get. Something everyone will agree on is that backpacks shouldn't occupy any OG equipment slots.

Bonus would be showing some stuff from your inventory on the backpack (bedroll, tent etc.)

I guess that it should detect lutes or whatever instruments Bardcraft uses and position them correctly

None of that visual stuff would be controversial.

[warm saddle]

Tbh I’d have to look at a Skyrim mod for that since there’s one that does this actually

[rotund epoch]

Aren't you playing Skyrim already?

[warm saddle]

Well yeah but I’d have to look at how this mod works haha

It attaches things to your gear depending on what’s in your inventory, potions, instruments, etc

And does so without clipping

I did something similar for Frostfall since I wanted to know how they handled certain gear but uh that was cursed

[rotund epoch]

Well, as it's 100% just a visual thing, I think you can safely treat it as low priority 😉 . All the gameplay features on SD to-do list seem way more impactful and exciting

[warm saddle]

In the time it took to implement the cooking changes I could’ve made the entire religion mod haha

Ownlyme is kinda salty about that but it is what it is

[rotund epoch]

ALMSIVI can wait. They won't really die due to old age

[warm saddle]

But doing weird asf workarounds to prove the impossible is always high on the priority list

Haven’t had to do that with this mod much since most of it is “artificial”, I think the last time was with sleeping

[warm saddle]

@rotund epoch I will say tho it’s hard playing Skyrim without a good survival mod

This modpacks has its own edits of the AE survival mod which is fine in itself just … lacking haha

Wait

I don’t have alcohol increases warmth do I

[rotund epoch]

Oh no

[warm saddle]

It’ll depend on the alcohol

Drink too much alcohol and you get set on fire

Nah idk

[rotund epoch]

Yes and if you drink too much for "warmth", you lose your sense of direction, pass out and wake up in a different place hours later

[warm saddle]

Nah I’d have to go hard and do like alcohol tolerance and stuff

[warm saddle]

I’m talking about ours btw haha

The only feature they have that I want is showing warmth on gear

[half summit]

oh yeah I remember all those cozy fur cloak mods to go with frostfall is bandoliers still one of the most popular (sfw) mods?

that was sweet

[warm saddle]

Def not haha there are much more popular mods around these days although most of the big ones are old (5+ years)

Although there is Skyparkour

[half summit]

nice

[warm saddle]

Feels kinda weird playing an ES game and not having to spam jump a cliff or something to climb up it

[half summit]

haha times a-changing

[warm saddle]

Immersive movement? In Todd’s engine?

Although idk if it can be considered Todd’s engine anymore if I have 50 mods adding python scripts to it

Their C++ UI mods are mad impressive though

[half summit]

I managed to climb in the back way into winterhold just by spamming jump against the wall

[half summit]

it will always be todds engine

[warm saddle]

Me walking from windhelm to riften

[warm saddle]

True

Even in openmw the most creative way we’ve had to work around the API end up going back to mwscripts

Very cursed

[half summit]

he is inevitable

[warm saddle]

True

But yeah like idk, the survival mods in Skyrim feel shallow compared to what I have here

Obviously stacking like the stress + wounds + survival + weather and whatnot makes it all complete but it’s still lacking

I guess we don’t really try to do camping stuff but they have mods that are a whole ass framework for that

If we did end up going hard with camping stuff I def would try to do something like campfire

[rough salmon]

Why not make it standalone?

[warm saddle]

Because I’ll use the animations API for other things in this mod

[half summit]

are you thinking of scarves and such? if it works it opens a lot of potential

[proven nymph]

Sun’s Feature Dusk

[rotund epoch]

You can't escape Him

[warm saddle]

@charred tide You really did meshes for all of Affa's recipes haha

That's wild

[rotund epoch]

Any idea why the mod thinks I have a torch and a heat source?

Is it because of light hotkey?

I have a shield rn

[warm saddle]

Have you updated light hotkey lately ?

[rotund epoch]

I synced the modlist in December so it downloaded everything back then

[warm saddle]

Hmm

That's weird

Oh

Did you swap your light out for a shield with light hotkey?

[rotund epoch]

Yes

I do it all the time

[warm saddle]

And it's only bugging out now? 0.o

Otherwise the tooltip might just need a little bit to update

[rotund epoch]

I dunno. Maybe I just didn't notice before.

[sour leaf]

I’m very excited for hardcoded recipes 😅

[civic patio]

Is it intended that you have the same rate of change of tiredness / restedness duirng travel? Or is it actually not doing this already? I just feel taking a long boat ride at 22:00 and arriving at the destination at 06:00 and being completely exchausted is a bit... inconvenient and crushes the biological clockl 😄

Are there any drinks / food that reduce tiredness? Like, coffee or.... hrm Sugar n Skooma hrm?

[warm saddle]

That first one should be fixed unless you're using a mod that changes travel, because yeah you get less tired while traveling, but yeah hackle-lo, moon sugar, coffee and tea all make you more awake

[rotund epoch]

I swear that I endorsed this mod before but Nexus says I didn't O_o. Anyway, fixed now 🙏🏻

[civic patio]

Okay. Cool! -10% per Hackle-Lo. Almost too good! 😄

[warm saddle]

Nothing perks you up like hackle-lo

[civic patio]

Regarding the travel. Are there any specifics? Should it be completely paused or is it slowed by a factor?

I'm not aware of any travel mods that I use other than increased travel costs and probably some that move travel npcs for Solstheim (TotSP).

[warm saddle]

Your tiredness increases slower when you’re traveling in comparison to when you’re awake

So if you’d normally gain 5% per hour while awake, you’ll gain 2% while traveling

[civic patio]

Slower, not paused... Gotcha.

[warm saddle]

I’m not sure what the exact formula is but it’s something like that

[half summit]

is there any chance of compatability with smokable Hackle-lo pipes mod? or could i add it?

[warm saddle]

Hmm is it a lua mod?

[half summit]

hmm dont think so

[warm saddle]

Even if it's mwscript I might be able to cook something up

[half summit]

nice, i can check what it does specifically

whats a good duration for a massage fortify endurance buff?

[warm saddle]

I can do some mwscript shenanigans but the easiest way would be to make the player drink a potion whenever they smoke just with a different sound effect I guess if that’s possible with mwscript

[half summit]

yeah thats how it does it. just adds a potion pe_hackle-lo_smoke

[warm saddle]

Oh word then that's easy haha

You can add this to the SD_food_and_drinks\ folder then and I'll include it in the next update

[half summit]

absolut legend

[warm saddle]

Anything to distract me from the state of skyrim UI mods

These people are animals

I guess this is what happens when you don’t have urm

[sour leaf]

Idea: Sleeping with armor on affects how well you sleep. To get the full benefits you have to change into normal clothes or naked or something

[proven nymph]

Tbh for me this goes into “too annoying / micromanage” territory. I think SD does a lot of stuff already…

[warm saddle]

Haha idk if I'd do that or make it a setting or something

[warm saddle]

Yup and plenty more features on the way

[stable bronze]

however, sleeping nekked though...

[rotund epoch]

Since there are no sleeping animations and it's all abatracted by fade to black screen, I think it doesn't matter much. The character can be assumed to remove armour for sleeping, anyway. DB attacks are probably the only thing that would be changed gameplay-wise because sometimes they would be more dangerous (if they catched you with no armour).

[half summit]

for of Beads and Feather, what needs to be blacklisted?the author sent me a fix that im testing

[warm saddle]

Stew (soon to be food), water, sujamma, flin
If they're going off of naming patterns, they could blacklist anything with [ or ] in the item name as well as (, ), or /
Not exactly the best solution but we also have a ton of events they can use at the bottom of the global script, player script, and in the modules folder, particularly the cooking, tea and liquids

[half summit]

ok cool, hopefully it works.

[sour leaf]

Fair but there's already a feature where you need to remove your armor to bathe so I don't think it's that out of place

[half summit]

Devilish Undress for all your disrobing needs

[hearty knot]

@warm saddle Maybe take another look at how you distribute drinks to cups. Do you want to kill me? 😄

[half summit]

just drink it you baby

[hearty knot]

David Blaine roleplay

[half summit]

glass of milk perhaps?

[hearty knot]

Daedroth Balayn, entertainer extraordinaire

I've also seen decorative pitchers on tavern walls which were full of liquids. Hilarious 😄

[half summit]

granny hiding the booze again

[rough salmon]

Wdym? That's just nords' national drink

[hearty knot]

something something milk-drinker

[hearty knot]

this is in Hlan Oek though 😄

Ship hall basement

[half summit]

i miss cooking with eldafire

[rotund epoch]

Yeah. Loadouts as well.

[half summit]

yeah i like loadouts

[rotund epoch]

Just some SaDism

[rough salmon]

[civic patio]

Having a weird situation where Sleep state is frozen in time. My TimeHUD was also frozen (but the latter got fixed by just waiting). I tried sleeping with trace debug active here. Before it was 17% tired. After sleep still 17% tired.

Saved, restarted openmw, load & now its back to normal. Something did break though but no info on what.

[warm saddle]

Timehud doesn’t update as often as Sun’s Dusk since Timehud only updates as often as the time you choose in the settings. If you’re doing anything that changes time when in and out of paused menus (aside from travel and sleep), Timehud will glitch for a minute and then reset itself to the correct time.

As far as Sun’s Dusk, looks like something was borked with your sleep menu and then pausing the game also prevented it from updating, but yeah saving and reloading (or just reloading lua) will force it to update

Also if you’re using any mod that drastically changes the timescale, both mods will get wonky. I’ll be putting out an update for timehud for that but not sure if it will work for this mod

[civic patio]

I found that restarting actually didn't help. Only sleeping (Rest) would reset the sleep state and make it start counting again.. Not even just waiting would do anything.

[warm saddle]

Idk then, I’d have to take a look at your logs

If you still have the openmw.log where this all happened

Oh, you’re using No Sneaky Sleeping right?

An edited version of it or something

[civic patio]

All I can see is logs about UI mode nil. I was in a long session where I had done a lot of different time passing stuff, Enchanted a few items, repaired items (both passing time via Skill Evolution). Haven't seen issues with this before but if I run into it again maybe we can look closer at it.

Not using Sneaky Sleeping.

[warm saddle]

Don’t you have a mod that changes the vanilla bed script ?
Also if the UI mode stayed nil when repairing and enchanting, that’s definitely a problem

[civic patio]

Yes but it doesn't touch the UI mode. I think these logs may or may not be related. I use No Rest Without Beds too, and this one does block the Rest/Wait window (it is closed a frame after it appears so you cant interact with it). This might be what is generating the logs. But I don't think it is related to the freezed state at all. I have an idea what might be going on but I'll test it if I get this issue again.

[warm saddle]

Yeah, if you have a mod that’s messing with the UI modes (wait/rest, repair, enchanting are all UI modes btw) then it’ll definitely throw this mod into wack. Repair and enchant UI modes should be ok but I’m more concerned about mods changing their behaviour 0.o

If you have a mod changing the behaviour of the bed_standard mwscript then I make no promises that this mod will work with it, since I’m checking for the bed_standard and chargenbed scripts being activated and I’m checking for the UI mode (wait/rest)

If you have a script that causes the rest/wait UI to appear for a frame, that would prevent you from restoring any sleep because no time had passed between when it was the UI mode and when it was not the UI mode

Unfortunately this is the “workaround” for sleeping I have (and the only workaround I’ve seen tbh) because the wait/rest menu isn’t dehardcoded and there’s no API for anything the player does in the wait/rest menu. So I check to see if the player activates a bed, then I check for the UI mode changing to the wait/rest menu, and then I check for the difference between when it’s activated and when the player exits the UI mode

Tbh I want to put a disclaimer in the description that this mod works with vanilla mechanics and if there’s a mod changing vanilla mechanics, depending on what’s done there’s a chance something will break

[civic patio]

Will the coming update have options to actually disable the other modules? I just saw tons of debuglogs for beign near a tree, randomly decided to beat it down and apparently this was a crime as I got blasted by a guard 👀

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’s a crime to cut trees indoors
There are no plans to add settings to disable woodcutting and cooking but you can delete those modules and the mod should still run

[civic patio]

Okay. I think I have misinterpreted this part.

[warm saddle]

Yeah I listed the modules you can disable in the settings menu

[civic patio]

Can I disable cooking completely by just not loading the selected .omwaddon?

How about woodcutting?

[warm saddle]

The omwaddon you can disable if you delete the cooking module, no idea what will happen if you disable/remove the omwaddon while the cooking module is active

[civic patio]

How do I disable the modules?

These two?

[warm saddle]

Delete them

[civic patio]

You're assuming I know your mod's entire file structure in and out. I do not.

[warm saddle]

As in like, right click and delete them

Move them to the recycling bin xD

[civic patio]

As in like, modules = only these 2 Lua files?

Or,
as in there are 2 or more subfolders elsewhere that also needs to be deleted?

[warm saddle]

Yes, delete the files named module_woodcutting.lua and the file module_cooking.lua. That’s all you need to do for deleting them

[civic patio]

Will this brick?

[warm saddle]

Pretty sure you’re ok to delete the sleep module but you’d be better off disabling it in the settings

Oh, what?

Yeah that’ll break the mod

You need to delete them, not change their file extension

The same goes for any complex lua mod btw

[civic patio]

Ok... I think that answered my question.

Only running sleep.lua is fine?

[warm saddle]

Yes

But delete everything else, do not change their file extension

Bardcraft, s3maphore, dynamic actors, impact effects and related mods also with the same way

[civic patio]

That is just an MO2 thing. Its not what you might think.

[warm saddle]

No

[civic patio]

As far as openmw is concerned... it doesn't even know the "mohidden" files exist.

[warm saddle]

If you have a file that begins with .lua and adds an extension onto it in a folder path that uses VFS then it will break the mod

Crafting framework, s3maphore, bardcraft, dynamic actors, impact effects, and this mod all work the same way

[civic patio]

Seems fine on my end. Tiredness working. Can't cut trees anymore.

[warm saddle]

Try going into the settings

[civic patio]

Yes? (It seems fine...)

[warm saddle]

Does anything show up in the settings window?

UI should be ok I think

[civic patio]

Yes, there are still options for Hunger, Thirst, Cooking and Tea brewing. But they are just there. Nothing happens if I changed a setting for it and resume game. I can go back and reset the setting. No errors or anything.

[warm saddle]

Okay then, I think we’re done

[civic patio]

Oh wow I get to keep my Hackle-Lo sleep medicine. I was worried it was built-in to another module. 😌

[tepid sedge]

didnt you edit half of the mod?

we cant really ensure proper behaviour then, note that funky/invasive third party mods can also not be guarranteed to work flawlessly

if you're able to edit the mod you should be able to debug these issues yourself 😉

[civic patio]

Hello there. No, I've only "hotfixed" the bathing/temperature errors I got. Aside from this I haven't "done" anything to your mod. I'm just wanting to use the sleep module for now. And perhaps now it is finally just the sleep module 🙂

[tepid sedge]

feel free to share your findings though, if the fix isnt too extensive

[civic patio]

Oh, yes. I did edit the effects you get from each tiredness state (overwrote them with a separate minor .omwaddon).

But your mod by itself I've been careful to not touch.

[tepid sedge]

we fixed some issues with disabled modules for the next release

i can try only running the sleep module for a while and see what happens

but some of your mods might be unsupported since they mess with sleep detection too much

the original no sneaky sleeping is supported

but no level up menu mods (probably)

[civic patio]

Here are the 2 hotfixes, its not really me that did them, I just copied hyacinth's way of fixing the first one (tempdata) into the 2nd error fix (cleandata):

#1427867749870473287 message

#1427867749870473287 message

[tepid sedge]

oh yeah these are already in the upcoming release

[warm saddle]

Yoooooo

[warm saddle]

Yeah great video, the vids ppl have done for this mod are great 🙏

Also

There’s a new update for this mod that should pair nicely with this one

Improved toxicity feature, affecting fatigue instead of health. The toxicity/overconsumption effect is now triggered by both drinking and eating (it blends nicely with necessity mods, like Sun's Dusk).

Stuffing your face with too much food or drink makes you fall unconscious, so think twice before trying to exploit the Alchemy mechanics!```
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/51050

[pseudo monolith]

Would it be possible to have time pass while cooking 🤔 ? Like depending on the complexity of the meal/cooking level

[stable bronze]

would I even need Alchemical Hustle if I don't use alchemy? or potions barely at all?

[rotund epoch]

I think it's already real time so there is that ar least

[rotund epoch]

No

It's balance/anti-cheese mod

Mostly

[warm saddle]

Yes but I don’t plan on touching the time/calendar API again anytime soon

[warm saddle]

Anything related to cooking or water is a potion if you wanted to prevent yourself from exploiting that

[stable bronze]

well, yeah, of course I eat and drink, otherwise I wouldn't be using SD at all

[warm saddle]

Also sorry crew that it’s been so long on this update ended up doing a lot more than I planned

So this will be 1.7

[warm saddle]

Hoping to have it done within the next few days inshallah by wedneday

[lunar tiger]

Would be cool to have the option to make bedrolls and towels permanent. Why couldn't I reuse my bedroll? or why would my towel desintegrate after 1 shower? Or am i doing something wrong?😂

[warm saddle]

Eventually yeah but a permanent tent or bedroll would weigh a ton and cost a ton to balance it, i might add durability or upgrading it or something but that's how it is for now
You can buy them from merchants or craft them if you have crafting framework

[lunar tiger]

Maybe repairing them would be cool, at least for the bedroll and tent. But yeah I'll give the crafting framework a try.

[warm saddle]

Yeah when I add backpacks I'll probably do something like that

[lunar tiger]

is it already possible in openmw to have backpacks that don't use up one of your available armor slots?

[warm saddle]

Yup

Just takes some lua wizardry

[lunar tiger]

That's awesome, looking forward to that.

[sour leaf]

You’re adding backpacks?

[warm saddle]

Eventually

I want to get to my religion mod and then I'll work on animations for sun's dusk which will likely include the backpack stuff

[sour leaf]

How would your implementation differ from Adventurer’s backpacks?

[sour leaf]

Animation? 👀

[half summit]

like the way bardcraft does instruments

on your back

[sour leaf]

I honestly mostly like backpacks for the roleplay immersion. But it would be cool to have an implementation that isn’t basically just a pauldron with a feather enchantment

[sour leaf]

I meant the actual functionality of it

[warm saddle]

Yeah like eating, drinking, getting water from a well, setting up camp, a bunch of stuff

[lunar tiger]

Maybe a hardcore mode that goes along with the backpack implementation, in which you can only carry what fits in your backpack, like 150 units or something like that. That may be out of the scope of SD tho

[sour leaf]

Oh hell yeah

[warm saddle]

I rlly like how skyrim survival mods do animation so I'll be wanting to do stuff like that

[half summit]

yusss

Best mod ever

[sour leaf]

Can’t wait!

[warm saddle]

In the time it's taken us to do cooking I could've done all that stuff and more

but it is what it is

Hopefully the cooking and recipes will keep people occupied for some time

[sour leaf]

I’ve said it a few times but hard coded recipes have been my most anticipated feature since cooking was added haha

[warm saddle]

Yeah I know haha

[sour leaf]

Idk why. Everything else you talk about adding is also very exciting

[warm saddle]

Although doing hardcoded recipes with an API that's basically a lite version of skyrim's alchemy was ... difficult to say the least

[sour leaf]

Not surprised tbh

[warm saddle]

Idk if there's even a mod for skyrim that does that

Probably

[sour leaf]

We appreciate both of your hard work 🫡

[warm saddle]

But they'd have to add a bunch of shit onto the engine

We don't have that luxury xD

There isn't even a crafting API for morrowind, we had to implement that ourselves

[sour leaf]

Oh yeah I forgot Skyrim has one by default

[warm saddle]

Doing cooking recipes with the crafting framework would take me less than 30 minutes but yeah this is something else entirely

[sour leaf]

Is there a reason you didn’t use crafting framework)

[warm saddle]

Didn't want to make it a dependency and didn't want to give a ton of exclusive features to ppl who use it

Besides, it'd feel kinda weird to have 2 completely different cooking systems

The bowl things we're doing also isn't possible with the crafting framework

[sour leaf]

Ah yeah that makes sense

[sour leaf]

Bowl things?

Sorry I haven’t been keeping up lately

[warm saddle]

Yeah, cooking now requires a bowl or plate and your food appears on it when you cook

[sour leaf]

Work’s been kicking my ass

[sour leaf]

Oh shit what

That’s awesome lol

[warm saddle]

#1427867749870473287 message

[astral mauve]

hyacinth2199

Attachment(s)

discord_2026-01-12_05-10-17.mp4

Linked by @​hyacinth2199 from #Sun's Dusk: Needs & Survival · Jan 12, 2026, 10:25 AM

[warm saddle]

I saw the skyrim mod that requires bottles for making potions and rlly liked it haha

[lunar tiger]

is that already out? Or with the next release?

[warm saddle]

Next release

[lunar tiger]

that's sick

[warm saddle]

Cooking skill is also added for the stats window extender, hardcoded recipes for the cooking API and recipe notes that are scattered around, a few other things

[sour leaf]

This is the greatest mod ever made

Ngl one of the main things keeping me from starting a new Morrowind playthrough for awhile (besides my compulsion to keep adding mods) was that I had just finished my NV Hardcore playthrough and realized that I don’t think I can play a Bethesda game without some sort of survival component now

Because there’s so much stuff that just gets ignored without it

There’s no reason to use Inns or eat most of the food usually

Other than for the roleplay

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure, that's why I like them a lot too

[sour leaf]

That’s another reason I like house mods that don’t come furnished with like plates, bowls, candles and stuff. Gives me a reason to buy clutter from shops

[warm saddle]

Need a reason to eat food, go to inns, talk to people, etc

[sour leaf]

Otherwise why would I ever buy forks or vases

[sour leaf]

Exactly

[grizzled flume]

The Skyrim survival mod has a lot of cool things in it, I was gonna suggest a pseudo skill tree when you interact with a campfire, not any other activator used for cooking, had skills relative to helping you survive, there’s audio cues for when your hungry thirsty and sleepy, you could have custom animations play when they happen

Is they any work being done on simply mining? I was thinking that you could mine the same way you hit a tree for wood

A mining skill that allows you to get rare ores at higher levels, different type of pickaxes and axes

[half summit]

yeah that was being talked about at some point. would be awesome.

theres already idles for things like yawning in the game, that would be cool if they were played based on needs like that. especially with 1st person body

[rotund epoch]

Yeah. BTW I feel the same about Solstheim's extreme weather now. In Vanilla it's a missed opportunity, i.e. everything is just eye-candy there, no real mechanics. With SD I will say that it can be damn brutal. I found myself returning for supplies and teleporting out many times. Gives the place a better atmosphere. It's supposed to be hostile and remote after all.

[rotund epoch]

It is hilarious how many mods I use to make my MW life more miserable . Well, there is some QoL stuff as well but gameplay-wise it's usually to make the game more punishing one way or the other .

[warm saddle]

Try playing with a follower

[rotund epoch]

My last character was a do-gooder who escorted pilgrims everywhere. I've had enough of that for now

[warm saddle]

Having companions in Bethesda game instantly makes the game 300% more difficult

But I love them

I modded my rapport so that they cast invisibility and chameleon on themselves when I’m invisible/chameleon which is just

[rotund epoch]

Not universally true. Only true if they need to survive. If not, then they can be very useful. That's why summons are good. You don't care if they die.

[warm saddle]

Oh I’m not talking about summons, I’m talking about NPCs
And yes the challenge is to keep them alive

Rapport makes them immortal and immune to diseases but I turned that off bc I’m just used to keeping them alive in other ways

Makes it too easy

[rotund epoch]

In Morrowind they just die. In Skyrim I remember them being essential.

[warm saddle]

Sometimes

[rotund epoch]

[warm saddle]

But maybe thats legendary difficulty idk

If they’re essential and on the ground for long enough they just die

But yeah you can mod them to be immortal in morrowind but where’s the fun in that

Skill issue

[tawny briar]

I'm curious: how does Sun's Dusk work in regards to magicka and resting to regain it? Because I could imagine resting for magicka really chunking out of one's Sun's Dusk needs. I suppose that gives more credence to potions, or magicka regen mods...

Basically, what I'm saying is, if one has to rest to regain magicka, which probably happens a lot, that could easily cause one's survival stats to go down really fast, and often

Also, unrelated question: does Sun's Dusk take into account the timescale? I use Dynamic Timescale, so the timescale is changing depending on where I am and what I'm doing--so ideally, my character's needs would adjust accordingly (not going from peckish to starving during a long dungeon)

[warm saddle]

This mod doesn't touch or change any existing mechanics with resting, it only reads data such as how long you rest and the hours that you rest

[warm saddle]

Most of the needs increase every minute or so in-game, so if your timescale is small it'll take longer for your needs to accumulate (depending on your settings) compared to a larger timescale which would make your needs increase faster

[tawny briar]

That's actually exactly what I want, I think. Needs accrue more when traveling, but less so in dungeons and towns.

[tawny briar]

I get that. I just mean that, if you're resting a lot (as mages are wont to do, since Magicka doesn't regenerate passively unlike Fatigue), won't you rack up hunger and such rather quickly?

Thanks for the reply, by the way. Your mod is quite impressive.

[warm saddle]

I'm not exactly sure how that mod works or what its settings are since I don't use it but yeah needs accrue every minute or so

[tawny briar]

I think all it does is alter the timescale according to where one is or what one is doing. So, if Sun's Dusk uses the timescale in-game, then it ought to adjust accordingly I think

[warm saddle]

Yes probably although needs accrue differently when sleeping, we've gone back and forth between a faster rate and a slower rate when sleeping

[warm saddle]

Thank you! :)

[tawny briar]

I see. It's probably no big deal either way. I was just wondering if a passive Magicka regeneration mod would be worthwhile. I try to avoid stuff like that usually, but I wasn't sure if Sun's Dusk would make it worthwhile.

Here's the Dynamic Timescale mod, by the way, if you're curious: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/52462?tab=description

[rotund epoch]

I use Dynamic Timescale as well. No issues.

[warm saddle]

I highly recommend this mod https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/57508
Makes it so "Until Healed" only takes about 8 hours or so to restore max health

[tawny briar]

mm, interesting

[warm saddle]

Very cursed to implement without the rest menu being dehardcoded but we made it happen

[sour leaf]

Half of the mods I’ve added and removed are to make the game harder lol

As in I’ve removed mods that make it easier

[tawny briar]

So this mod means, for example, if you only need 4 hours to regen, you won't exceed 4--which I assume doesn't happen in vanilla?

I never really noticed honestly since I've mostly played with Atronach for mages lol

[warm saddle]

Yes to the first part, and no to the second. In vanilla when you select "rest until healed" you rest only until when your health is restored to full, but the rate of healing is so slow/bad it usually takes like 30 hours or something ridiculous
Playing with Sun's Dusk without that mod basically ensures that you die from hunger/thirst when you wake up without it

[tawny briar]

Ah, okay

[warm saddle]

It's why he made it actually haha

[tawny briar]

I see now

I'll definitely want this, then

[warm saddle]

But yeah I also just sleep in beds and just use restoration spells haha

Didn't even know it was bad until I played a non mage

[tawny briar]

A couple friends of mine have gotten into MW recently and I just noticed the insane rest times

somehow I just never really took notice of it

Get into a fight and have to lay down outside for a couple days lol

I imagine since the timescale barely matters in vanilla, the inordinate rest times are basically meaningless, but since it matters with things like Sun's Dusk...

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure, but also I always only play at a timescale of 15 or 10
Not sure how i'd get on with a mod like dynamic timescale, I don't think i'd like it but idk, I have over 1000 hours of elder scrolls gametime with that timescale and so it's just intuitive for me at this point and i have my routines and stuff down

[rotund epoch]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of some of the stuff added to MOMW like carrying capacity being 10xSTR. Some of default settings are also bonkers. Lua multimark gives 8 base marks, lol. This totally trivializes movement and time cost by the mid-game as you just hop around willy-nilly.

[tawny briar]

I can't say personally if it's good or not, just for lack of experience, but it sounds good to me at least. Probably unnecessary though if you know the gameflow well, as you say

[tawny briar]

Fully agreed

Some of the overhaul stuff is nuts

There's also some great stuff, but a lot that's antithetical to base balancing

[rotund epoch]

Good that it's easy to remove or tweak

[tawny briar]

My rule of thumb is I only want things that enhance base mechanics, usually, rather than totally revamping them. For example, Chargen mods if they're in the spirit of vanilla are fine; an extreme example I wouldn't be keen on are any mods that change the rng in combat (trying to "modernize")

With some exceptions: Sun's Dusk, obviously, although I will say I think survival mechanics are complimentary given how big traveling is in this game

[warm saddle]

Yeah ownlyme’s is much more balanced in that regard

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure, it fits in well

[tawny briar]

I'm not sure how I'd feel about survival mechanics in, say, Oblivion, since the game isn't really designed around not fast traveling, and the environments are mostly temperate

[rotund epoch]

Many people add needs just to make use of in-game stuff like taverns or food

Temperate... yeah... yeah

[tawny briar]

Yeah, that'd be the main purpose. The actual traveling, meh

[tawny briar]

I'll never forget traveling to kill that Argonian for the Dark Brotherhood in the "swamps" in southern Cyrodiil, and when I get there it's not a swamp, it's just coastal forest

Oblivion always feels like it's gaslighting me

[rotund epoch]

"Most is endless jungle"

[tawny briar]

https://tenor.com/view/todd-howard-bethesda-elder-scrolls-oblivion-laughing-gif-27490544

[tawny briar]

damn, ownlyme's stuff looks great. looking at their pilferer mod right now--very simple thievery enhancement

[warm saddle]

Yeah he’s great

This mod would be very different and much much worse without him

[tawny briar]

I like that they appear to take simple options with their stuff. A lot of mods suffer from "modder's megalomania," where they just keep expanding and expanding it until it's bloated and incoherent

not so here, seemingly

[warm saddle]

Hopefully this mod won’t get to that point haha although I plan to release mods that are make use of its API, like my religion mod

[tawny briar]

Well, any "bloatedness" I think you make up for with modularity

For example, on my end I didn't really want all the bonuses from being well-fed and such, so I just set to debuffs only since I mainly just wanted to have to eat and sleep and such

but that's totally subjective, and the options are there for people who want that bigger experience

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure

The mod will always stay like that for the most part aside from a few things that are just a nightmare to implement

Like bowls and cooking

[tawny briar]

Say more about this religion mod? is it forthcoming?

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’s like … 50% done or so ?

[tawny briar]

If you don't mind revealing, what's the concept?

[warm saddle]

Wintersun (the Skyrim mod) but for Morrowind

[tawny briar]

ooh, that sounds sick

I like playing monastic characters so that'd be a natural fit

[warm saddle]

It’ll have significantly less deities than Wintersun since I’ll only be doing the tribunal temple and the Daedric princes but there will be an API for anyone who wants to make their own

[tawny briar]

I mean, really those are the most important deities anyway

Are you not doing the Imperial pantheon?

[warm saddle]

Probably not

I don’t care about them xD

But like I said, there’ll be an API for people to make their own deities if they want

[tawny briar]

lol fair enough

There are a lot of Imperial deities too

[warm saddle]

Yeah …

[tawny briar]

Especially if you were to include the more off-beat options, re: Talos cult or what have you

anyway, looking forward to it, sounds very cool

[rough salmon]

So the deity option in my chargen mod will actually be of use with your mod too
Whew

[tawny briar]

modding apotheosis

[rough salmon]

I'm slowly porting mtr's Culture, Lineage and Deity mods

Basically treat them as additional and less impactful birthsings to your character

But it's really early in the development rn. Just saying

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure and yeah that’ll be good

We can do some interop maybe 👀

[half summit]

badass

I've been enjoying dynamic timescale, it fits well my perception of the passage of time

[rotund epoch]

Not really. I would say that RP-wise those are actually rather niche choices. As an outlander in MW, you need to make a very specific character to become ALMSIVI follower. Daedric worship is also frowned upon in many places. No Aedra means that we are actually left with the choices which won't fit many characters, unfortunately.

[rough salmon]

I'll consider it closer to release. I haven't even started any logic - still on the planning stage 😵‍💫
But I also plan on adding an option for disabling effects of the picked "Details" as I call them, making entries in the charsheet purely cosmetic. At least you could override my perks with yours, if we couldn't find a satisfactory idea 🤷

[tawny briar]

I did write that message before I realized they didn't mention the Imperial deities. But yeah, I do tend to play Dunmer so the Tribunal and some Daedra are of interest; for many non-Dunmer characters, not so.

[half summit]

damn faithless imperials

[warm saddle]

Not ownlyme having to look up how to cook on a campfire in Lorerim

You can only cook on campfires that you build apparently

So uncivilised

[half summit]

They're all savages up there

[hearty knot]

Skyrim is a harsh land

[rough salmon]

That's because they don't have our glorious lua

[warm saddle]

Fr fr

Skyrim modding gives me a new appreciation for openmw

[hearty knot]

In Skyrim, a campfire cooks you

[hearty knot]

In some respects, yes. But Skyrim still offers more variety with how many mods are available

[warm saddle]

Counterpoint: Settings across saves

The workarounds they’ve had to do are … creative to say the least

Definitely inspiring

[hearty knot]

huh? I haven't even noticed 😄

[warm saddle]

??? Yeah .ini are specific to character, it’s an engine limitation

There are a few workarounds that script extenders have done but nothing to completely solve that afaik 0.o

[hearty knot]

huh

never knew

well, maybe... been a while since I've played Skyrim

[warm saddle]

Gotcha haha

But yeah their workarounds are very cursed

Like yeah ofc they can do more than what we have with lua but in the end they are limited by Todd’s engine

Pickup and shop around for openmw is like 1000 lines of code? Maybe? And the Skyrim version is ……… much longer and required the modder to make an invisible quest and perk

For all the cursed workarounds I’ve had to do and that I’ve seen at least I haven’t had to make a journal entry

[proven nymph]

Yeah I can’t believe that SKSE has no lua layer

Blows my mind

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme says something like SkyUI is possible in openmw

Here’s to hoping he gets bored enough to do it

[proven nymph]

Everything’s possible in openMW

Like, literally

😄

Now what I really need him to make is a mobile port of Total War Attila with mods in openMW

Maybe you’re interested in doing that for SD?

[rotund epoch]

And performance would still probably be shit

[warm saddle]

Except custom tooltips

[rotund epoch]

and dehardcoded spell effects

[warm saddle]

Ralts already has that covered kinda

But yeah for the next TD release I think we'll have some of the custom spells and custom weather

[rotund epoch]

[rotund epoch]

Idea: prevent getting Well-rested if you are still Tired or lower its duration. Currently you can get from 100% tiredness to sth like 55% and will get the Well-Rested bonus which is strange.

[humble mica]

no, that's realistic. i'm Tired even when i'm Well-rested

[rotund epoch]

Day counter should progress "life tiredness" slider. Eventually you don't even want to get out of bed.

[humble mica]

Harrowedness meter that only ever increases

[warm saddle]

Just a progress update

That’s about where we’re at haha

[sour leaf]

Dude

[hearty knot]

this is some Vintage Story level shit

[warm saddle]

Hahaha there aren’t that many recipes but people could make their own mod for that if they want

[rotund epoch]

I think that having hundreds of recipes for the sake of it wouldn't add much to gameplay as they wouldn't be varied enough in terms of actual effects. It's ok to have some overlap but no reason for total craziness IMO.

[warm saddle]

I think MD is going to make more or something, he showed interest in the recipes at least

[rotund epoch]

backpack?

[warm saddle]

Openmw now has backpacks

Yeah

[rotund epoch]

there are many backpack mods

[warm saddle]

Yup

[rotund epoch]

I discarded all of them for one reason or the other, hah

[warm saddle]

I’m just adding a few that I like, devilish has his own mod for backpacks, I’m just giving them a feather bonus for equipping

And you can see that they don’t take up the shoulder pad slot

There are some funky workarounds though so I’ll have to walk you through them @charred tide

I think you could also do the same thing with scarves @half summit but we’ll see

Probably fashionwind too

[rotund epoch]

Nice

Progress 🙂

[low ocean]

youre insane, which I am happy about

[half summit]

did those nifs I sent you do the trick?

I'm a bit too excited about that, it's unreasonable

[half summit]

Is it very complicated?

[warm saddle]

Yeah there were a few problems but we were able to figure it out, anything to shorten my time in nifskope xD

[warm saddle]

Adding backpacks for this mod doesn’t require any lua from your end but it should be possible to do scarves, I can send you the code for it later

I didn’t plan on adding it to this update but it just took us a few hours so we should be alright

[gloomy mango]

This is incredible! Does the plate/bowl mesh take whatever the player selected to cook the dish with?

[warm saddle]

Yup, whatever you cook will show up on your plate or bowl

[gloomy mango]

Amazing work!

"verkaufswert"

I love German

[gloomy coyote]

Will backpack be able to install as standalone?

[warm saddle]

Technically I could make it as a standalone but probably wouldn’t add the feather effect

[gloomy coyote]

Oh I need it with feather 😄

[warm saddle]

But dubious wants to do scarves I think which would be a standalone of course

[gloomy coyote]

Well then SD is very modular as I remember so I guess I can turn off most of the stuff?

(For now, there will be time I will try playing with it)

[gloomy mango]

The fact that I can now visibly see the specific food and the bowl type being represented now means I want to need a bowl, so yay for me 😄

[warm saddle]

Yup you can turn everything off if you want haha

Some people do that just for cooking so that they can level alchemy by skyrim mechanics

[warm saddle]

That’s the goal :) I like the morrowind clutter and wanted to give it some purpose

[low ocean]

definitely look forward to backpacks

that and a lil pack guar, roaming the wilds looking for ingredients for alchemy and cooking

[lunar tiger]

How will the backpack situation be with shields when using the weapon sheathing mod? Will it be better to just carry the shield in your arm?

[lunar tiger]

Love the ash zombie asking for the uppies

[half summit]

How would you want it to work? Personally I don't care about clipping so idk

[rotund epoch]

It depends. Sometimes I don't match certain items because the clipping is too much and looks too ugly. Example: some robes and gauntlets/bracers.

[lunar tiger]

I don't mind clipping per se, what bothers me is when the clipping gets much worse as you move, if the running animation makes the backpack and the shield go in and out of each other, it's very jarring. But in the end it doesn't really matter, a backpack and a shield clipping is better than no backpack at all haha

[warm saddle]

No clue lmfao it’ll depend on the mesh of the backpack I guess although I’m including a messenger bag and I think ownlyme made a pouch

If people want to make their own mods that add backpacks that have different positions they’re more than welcome to

What does a lute/drum look like when equipped with a shield? xD

[lunar tiger]

ohhh messenger bag sounds awesome, man this mod just keeps getting better

[warm saddle]

Personally I hate backpacks and have no interest in them but I fuck with a good messenger bag

[lunar tiger]

I like them better too! Tho, realistically a messenger bag must be a pain in the ass if you're in combat

[rotund epoch]

What's a messenger's bag?

[rotund epoch]

Realistically these things would be dropped in combat. No reason to get slowed down by all the additional stuff.

[lunar tiger]

You're right, outward backpack dropping mechanic when?

[warm saddle]

#1408674801131847702

[lunar tiger]

The crossed ones that rest in your hip. I don't know how to explain it better, my English is bad

[rotund epoch]

Oh, somebody did it? Nice

Ah

First time I heard the name tbh

[warm saddle]

Someone was having trouble with this mod bc it wasn’t loading, turns out that they were having trouble installing bc we’re the only mod they have 🥺

[rotund epoch]

Bless them and suggest Expansion Delay at least out of mercy

[rapid valve]

This is actually a good idea

[warm saddle]

I mean you can unequip it by dropping it on the ground

[rapid valve]

Are you faster without it?

[rotund epoch]

I assume that the intention would be to drop a backpack with stuff

you travel with many items that you don't need in combat

most of them are stored in a backpack

you drop a backpack in combat and then you can fight freely

this is how it would work if you fought for "real" with anything more dangerous than a rat

[rotund epoch]

the way backpacks are implemented in MW mods, they usually make you faster while wearing them

they just give a feather effect

simple as that

scripted ones can be a bit more complex

[warm saddle]

No, it doesn't change speed

Yeah I haven't decided on the effects for each of them or if they'll have different effects

[glass ocean]

So excited for this cooking update! Love all the recipes, what a huge effort

[little haven]

i don't mind the feather effect backpacks

i also don't mind that mounts are pants

[rotund epoch]

Sure. It's also an easy solution if you want a backpack. That's why they are often made like this. Many players just like the visual aspect here, anyway.

[little haven]

i never even questioned why they used feather before, it just made sense, but i guess it's probably an engine limitation

[warm saddle]

I mean I don’t have to put an effect on it haha, it doesn’t appear on the item in your inventory regardless, only when you equip it

[rotund epoch]

Because it's the only thing that makes sense if you want to use spell effects. Feather = more inventory space without making you stronger like STR. That's simple enough for backpack.

[half summit]

feather makes sense but i like the idea of being slower too. probaly not a popular option, most people hate being slow but its a trade-off. mechanically backpacks make more sense in a grid based inventory like diablo

[warm saddle]

I think ownlyme wants to put some special effects on them, not sure what yet though

[warm saddle]

Some backpacks in Skyrim increase movement speed, some slow

[half summit]

yeah realistically it would depend on the pack whether you were freeing yourself up or loading up with supplies

[warm saddle]

Not the trading supplies looking the ugliest but giving huge buffs

I would never

[rotund epoch]

Then you would need to lower speed as well because higher capacity = lower encumbrance % = faster movement.

[half summit]

encumbrance could do with a full overhaul if your going to try to improve it at all imo. otherwise just slap a feather on and its fine

[warm saddle]

Are we trying to balance a Bethesda game?

[half summit]

sera i would never

my only concern is grueling punishment

and dope threads

[rotund epoch]

I just commented on your proposal. With no other effects it will always make you faster because it's what feather does 🙂

Morrowind already makes you care a lot about inventory management that way btw.

[half summit]

it wasn't intended as a proposal, more of a pontification.
i just like the trade-off of being slower for extra carry weight. but theres something i dont like about the way bethesda implements it, im not sure exactly what it is

[vernal marsh]

Just make backpacks cause you to get tired faster. Also feather

[half summit]

and sweaty

[warm saddle]

More visits to your bathhouses

[rotund epoch]

BTW it would be cool to get a setting to determine how much tiredness is removed by sleeping (per hour).

[rotund epoch]

IIRC in Skyrim encumbrance is just a limit, i.e. no effects until you reach it and then you can't run. This is a system I like a lot less than MW where encumbrance affects speed a lot. It makes you think what to pick. One thing which is missing is ofc inventory slots in addition to encumbrance but many players would hate this as they are hoarders 😉

[little haven]

yes

[charred tide]

item weight should be overhauled completely

most values make no sense at all

while you are at it, also make sense out of the item values

thanks

I'm picturing a Bethesda guy with two dices rolling them before entering something in the value slot for each item

[half summit]

i think thats probably not far from the truth

[charred tide]

It's the relative values that make no sense at all. Like if you would trade these items with each other it'd make no sense at all

It's also not taken into account how rare or widely available these items are

if you find gems and diamonds in every dwemer ruin, they may not be so valuable

pff, maybe in one or two years, I'll give that a go

[half summit]

yeah it would need every item reassessed by a number of factors.
i suppose you could probably make a reasonable average for each category and then go through for exceptions

[charred tide]

I'm generally speaking not so happy with how easy it is to get rich by finding glass armor for example

it should be harder to accumulate wealth

[half summit]

having a maximum limit of each type of item would be a start

[charred tide]

so that you are driven to do quests

I want guild dues too

make it an economic struggle so that you may become a thief

Currently, you are a thief because it's fun

it'd be better if being a thief was the only way to get out of a situation (out of circumstance)

or if you want to roleplay a merchant, it's much more work

and being a thief is just a way to get rich quicker

but currently it's just no challenge

[half summit]

it depends on what mods you use but i agree carry capacity is a big missing piece of that picture

[grizzled flume]

Packrat skill?

[rotund epoch]

By combining various mods like HBFS, BMS, tax mod, SD etc., I've made my game quite challenging to me overall. Snowballing is nowhere near as vast as in Vanilla. As for values, some of them don't make sense, indeed, although they are theoretical as you don't get nowhere near full price for items in general (excluding some cheese but BMS helps with that). It actually makes sense for some items to be very very expensive but it's the way they interact with bartering which is a bigger problem. Sth like Ebony cuirass may be worth 35k in theory and the devs slapped that value assuming it will be "unsellable" in most circumstamces as merchants have 1-3k gold anyway, right? Well, the problem is that the players may trade most of shop's inventory for 1-2 valuable items and all of merchant's gold . A merchant willingly becomes broke and is left with an item which is hard to sell because of quirks of MW bartering. That shouldn't be happening, the system is too limited. There are also other factors missing like different selling/buying values (if item value is changed then it can be acquired much easier by the player as well) and variable/dynamic prices depending on merchant type and region. The mod Buying Game for MSWE does a lot of cool stuff. Maybe it will happen for OMW as well.

As for item weight, since it's a weird combo of weight, volume and gameplay balancing, it will often be hard to make sense of it. Item limits based on type could make this more believable.

There are many item overhauls but they all rely on database changes so they quickly become outdated and inconsistent as other mods are being updated (like TD and OAAB). I think that unless such overhauls are done with LUA, it's a lost cause outside of limited playthroughs without much modded content.

[gloomy coyote]

I can add that function to my Auto Light Drop to also drop backpacks behind(or side if its a side bag) of the player on weapon/spell ready (with nice physics of course)

And being slowed down a little bit with big backpacks seem nice

And I agree encumbrance would be lovely to be reworked by someone, especially with introduction of backpack system (which would imply making a gmst to give a lot less cap with strength - just like dayz system if you dont have bag/backpack then you can carry almost nothing

[gloomy coyote]

Yeah combining all difficulty/realism mods give quite a challenge now to early-mid game of a character

The key is not to tryhard and go with the flow

[gloomy coyote]

And this can be combined to remove items from inventory for the time being when backpack is dropped until picked up back

Easily doable lua side but the menu to actually set what sets in backpack.. or just decide what type of unequipped items would be put in backpack

Ie another weapons, armors, junk items, etc

Depends how realistic we want it to go actually as an option

[rotund epoch]

I think that dropping the backpack is only a small part of a potential system. Even more important part is actually getting backpack-not-as-visual-thing-only to work seamlessly with the game systems in general. Functionally I guess that it would be a sort of container (even if faked) but integrated with your inventory. It should be easy to use and work properly with quest checks for items (so if you have sth in the backpack it still counts in dialogue). Item and gold removals from inventory should be extended to cover the backpack both in trading and in scripted commands (so if the item is in the backpack it's properly removed when that's supposed to happen) as well as with confiscating stolen goods (so things in the backpack are not exempted from stolen goods checks).

I'm not surprised that such a system hasn't been implemented yet as it's hard and many players just want to have a visible backpack on their character.

But hey, even the mere fact that it won't occupy a pauldron slot will be a huge improvement regarding overall lvl of jank.

At least it will feel like a properly functioning item and not a hackjob (even if it's a hackjob behind the scenes )

[gloomy coyote]

Dropping unequipped items by item class is possible in few moments. The thing you explained is for sure few days (atleast) of work and catching out the bugs as well

I would make it so that strength grants 2cap/1str (or 2.5/1 )and then just having the bag/backpack apply feather accordingly based on bag size

Ie biggest backpacks would grant like 150cap

But thats only my opinion

[rotund epoch]

yeah, in such a system backpack would be sort of mandatory for travelling. However, if you change the GMST then it affects NPCs as well and it may have unintended consequences.

btw I check Outward's wiki as the game was mentioned here

some cool ideas

I can certainly see various backpack types coming with different pros and cons

[gloomy coyote]

NPCs carry only base equipment, sometimes a bit of potions or clutter. Nothing too gamechanging tbh

[rough salmon]

five hundred iron daggers

[rotund epoch]

It absolutely has gameplay impact. Huge one. It will affect their carrying capacity and movement speed as well as affect the efficiency of various spells like Damage/Drain STR or Damage/Drain SPD making them even stronger. Burden would be affected as well and depending on settings it could become a little bit stronger or very strong. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if some NPCs in heavy armour and with a heavy weapon type wouldn't even be able to move with 2 carrying capacity per STR.

so it has huge impact tbh

it's not a fire and forget type of thing

BTW I've just checked this for fun and just to give an example, full ebony set even without shield weights more than 200 weight points, so yeah, not feasible at all for NPCs with 2xSTR. Bolyn Venim wouldn't be able to move, haha (he also also has a dai-katana btw which weights 60 so yeaaaahhh). A steel set with shield weights 118 in Vanilla. Add sth like a steel war axe (24), some clothes (3-5), torch (3) and a potion or two (1-2) and suddenly NPCs need about 155-160 carrying capacity to even move at all with this rather basic equipment and even the slightest magical effect affecting carrying capacity could stop them in their tracks.

[half summit]

Making base limit extremely low is good but equipped items would have to not count against the overall, anything that goes over the limit is immediately dropped instead of slowing you. I think an inventory replacer is the best way to go because you can avoid any weirdness of removing items, just hide them

[rotund epoch]

yeah, you would have to change the system in such a case. Different story. Not a wrong concept per se but it would work differently for the player and the NPCs as the NPCs don't need anything like that. They can use base game one.

[rough salmon]

[gloomy coyote]

You can just add dynamic burden based on lua settings.. there are possibilities

To avoid gmst changing

[half summit]

That would be the cleanest way. I think you could simulate a slot based inventory by categorizing specific amounts of each type of item, e.g. you can carry two swords and one axe without effect but not if you have a Warhammer.
Then having different kinds of backpack can expand on those e.g. scroll case let's you carry many more scrolls than you could otherwise

You can tell SD is a great mod by how many lengthy game design discussions get kicked off here haha

[warm saddle]

If you want haha, I think I send an event to the player for it

Why should backpacks slow you down when carrying a big drum or whole lute on your back doesn’t

[warm saddle]

Yeah I don’t plan on touching container scripts anytime soon

One of the devs of this mod has a whole ass mod for that xD

[warm saddle]

Yeah nah if someone wants to make a different mod for that, they’re more than welcome to but neither of us will be haha

[warm saddle]

Backpacks are all the same size except for satchel