Sun's Dusk: Needs & Survival

[indigo anchor]

Is there a custom skill involved?

[rotund epoch]

I've just had a thought that being tired could lower skill gain rate with SE if SD was detected.... maybe to make it interesting it could work like a curve so 0-20% tiredness lvl would be warm up phase (neutral), then you would have peak acitivity phase 21-60% where you can push yourself to your limits with increased skill gain rate and after the character becomes more and more exhausted you eventually get increasing penalties to skill gain. There could even be more fun details, e.g. warm up phase could have higher skill decay reduction rate for using the skill.

Being dirty could make sneaking harder because the PC smells. However, using perfumes would have a similar effect because pleasant smell is still easier to detect than a neutral one

[mild crystal]

depends - it could make it easier to blend in while outside, but more detectable in urban environments

[rotund epoch]

ha, that would be quite cool. Different effect in cities and caves/sewers/ruins etc.

[indigo anchor]

So an impact on all skills.
I think it would be best if this mod used SE's interface to alter gains

[rotund epoch]

atm it doesn't touch skill gain AFAIK

[indigo anchor]

It seems relevant that it handles skill gain factors

I can help to do it the right way, wherever SE is loaded or not

[warm saddle]

Haha it’s all good, tbh I test things on my vanilla cfg before putting out big updates :’)

It’s a struggle … I’ve always played with quickcast and was confused when I didn’t know how to cast spells rofl

[warm saddle]

No but anything is either stored in a variable or you can simply check the active ability which is the player’s “state” for whichever need, the only weird one is temperature because there are like 6 different temperatures you could use for things although I exposed the most important ones I think

[warm saddle]

Yeah those were my thoughts haha, I was thinking about putting a -sneak on perfumes and colognes but ehh they give +speech +merc which are Hlaalu so I feel like it’d be weird to nerf stealth

[warm saddle]

Yeah I don’t touch skills at all, I think the only time skill is called at all is for cooking

[warm saddle]

What do you have in mind ? Right now this mod doesn’t do anything with skills

[indigo anchor]

This mod could slightly alter every gain based on his state

[rotund epoch]

Ha ha

That was my suggestion

It's not implemented

But it's sth that could be done in SE

Life sim mod

[indigo anchor]

Specific skill progression should be handled be mods which add specific features

[rotund epoch]

Yeah it's just sth I thought about when pondering possible mod integration

ATM it's not a feature

[warm saddle]

Tbh I haven’t touched skills at all and don’t plan on doing much because people use different skill mods and balancing around that is cursed

[rotund epoch]

It will get even more complex with perks in the future, lol. However, I guess that SE is the most mainstream as it's part of EV modlist.

[warm saddle]

Yeah I plan on adding perks related to xp which are obviously totally optional, so people can choose what they want
But perks are … a ways away haha

[rotund epoch]

is stat window extender support planned?

[warm saddle]

But anyone could make perks now if they wanted, like doing increased fire damage in hot weather and increased frost damage in cold weather

[warm saddle]

Yeah the cooking skill will eventually go there

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/the-way-it-should-be-dwayne-johnson-the-rock-seven-bucks-meant-to-be-this-way-gif-18908166

[warm saddle]

Was thinking about doing some bardcraft recipes with our firewood

I want to chop down a tree and make a violin with wood and string

Also I can do recipes for music boxes but I’d want ralts’ approval before thinking about releasing that

[indigo anchor]

The skill progression interface is intended to be used by multiple mods at the same time. Your mod seems to be a perfect scenario to alter skill gains in a legit way.
Skill Evolution purpose is not to handle gains for every mod, the maintenance would be huge and these mods would rely on SE's author reactivity for any update.

[rotund epoch]

I like that you refer to SE's author in third person

that author being you

😅

[indigo anchor]

I talk about principles 😁

[warm saddle]

Oh yeah I see you have a whole interface for it

Maybe when I have more features I’ll consider it but I don’t want to mess with anything I haven’t installed already haha

[crude vessel]

I doubt I could afford medieval soap anyway, it was super expensive

[warm saddle]

Depends on where you were haha, but idk I made it kinda plentiful in morrowind

Only place you might have trouble finding it in vanilla is Molag mar since they don’t have a publican

Although bathing in vanilla might be rough since there are no bathhouses, 100% recommend dubious’s mod

[crude vessel]

I was reading that most common people bathed either in rivers / lakes or often just a partial ablution with water and a wet rag in the morning. Maybe allow the player to get down to 30% that way but you need soap to get to 0%?

[crude vessel]

I don't think this adds bathhouses to TR, right?

[warm saddle]

Not yet but that’s a big ask 😅 I made the bathing requirements lax though so you should be able to bathe in most TR cities

[crude vessel]

Lol yeah that's an enormous ask

[rotund epoch]

you know that the Celts used the soap, right?

more than Romans did

so it varies a lot

[crude vessel]

I'd expect it would vary a lot from province to province in Tamriel. I was trying to work out the other day which cultures are hygienic and how they get clean, now that Sun's Dusk has injected hygiene into the game

[rotund epoch]

I'm sure that various provinces may have different soap types

[crude vessel]

Hmm. Can Khajiit players just lick themselves clean?

[sour leaf]

What are the requirements exactly

[warm saddle]

I considered that haha

[rotund epoch]

only if you play as Alfiq

[warm saddle]

Being wet, being submerged in water, or being in a bathhouse

And then using soap haha

[sour leaf]

Ah so you don’t need to be in a bathhouse

[crude vessel]

Mediterranean cultures often used olive oil as well

(Not sure if there's a Morrowind equivalent)

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’s mostly to help out with player homes and also taking a dip in the river or sea should clean you off xD

[warm saddle]

There’s olive oil in TD yeah

[warm saddle]

Awww 🥹

[half summit]

yeah its an interesting thought experiment.

[half summit]

if you use my recipes you can make the scrapwood planks out of any other wood 😉
.. but you need heartwood to make a violin

[grizzled flume]

Ik this old but is this compatible with the current version of TR and where does it ass on the map

[half summit]

yeah it puts it where it should be more or less so it doesn't clash with anything. it was made before we had any concept art of the imperial city so its interesting to see, there are a bunch of patches made over the years but yeah its pretty hella dated.

[grizzled flume]

Oh ok any talk of using more modern architecture assets or is it worth adding? With baths of vard

[half summit]

im happy to leave it as an historical curiosity. PC will get there eventually. if there's a bunch of interest i wouldn't mind adding one 🤷 you never know

[rough salmon]

How are BO/SHOP, Quickloot and bardcraft interops would look like?

[warm saddle]

BO/SHOP would be like, bathing/perfume could possibly effect NPC behaviour or sneak level, along with sleep personalities and needs states although I’d want to talk to blurp and skrow what would be good as far as balance, I might get some other ideas as well

Quickloot at the very least would be, looting chests in tombs or “dirty” locations would increase dirtiness

Bardcraft could be companion stuff, needs + temperature effecting performance and bardcraft skill (possibly), recipes for instruments from Sun’s dusk wood and I might get more ideas

🧐 forgot to add the new stat menu/skill framework too although that might would probably have to hold off for a few more updates

None of these take crazy priority over the features I’m adding for the next updates obviously, it just gives me something a little different to do and change of pace which helps with not getting burnt out

(Also aside from starwind stuff which I’m working alongside with)

[rough salmon]

Then quickloot it is

[half summit]

filthy looting does sound good. I love the idea of playing music to keep warm, or at least to stop becoming more cold

also smells affecting stealth

it's all do cool

[warm saddle]

this makes me so happy

[rough salmon]

so all the random tea infusers will have a use now???

[warm saddle]

Oo i didn't make the tea infusers a requirement

Although this isn't OAAB/TD exclusive thing, there's only exactly one kind of cup that you can make tea with in vanilla bc it's all i could find

[half summit]

that's looks so slick

[hearty knot]

🫖 🍵

[warm saddle]

Eventually there will be more teas and stuff but I'll basically be using the cooking API, but this is simple enough for now

[warm saddle]

Anyway yeah it'll be in the next update

If everything goes well I might have it done tomorrow morning but I don't like putting out a lot of updates in a short amount of time haha even though I've done it a few times already

[warm saddle]

Also OpenMW is the first morrowind mod to have saltwater I believe #showcase message

[astral mauve]

hyacinth2199

OpenMW also now has saltwater

Attachment(s)

saltwater.mp4

Linked by @​hyacinth2199 from #showcase · Dec 13, 2025, 2:05 PM

[warm saddle]

Sun's Dusk already has some features that ashfall doesn't have but I'm especially happy with this

[rotund epoch]

So what will be the differences between water types? It was discussed a long time ago but I don't remember the details anymore

[warm saddle]

Saltwater gives you a debuff and increases thirst, suspicious water has a chance to poison you or restore your thirst + magicka like normally, based on your luck attribute

[rough salmon]

Oh cool, Caius' Rooftop Apartment already comes with bucket for water and a tea infuser for tea

Neat

Suggestion: add messages for needs stage changes so it would be easier to track them 🧐

It's already a thing for dirtiness and it would be helpful to have it for other needs too

[warm saddle]

Yeah it has an ashfall interop thing and I didn’t look too closely but I figured some stuff from Sun’s Dusk should carry over

Does it have a tea pot or only a tea infuser ?

[rough salmon]

btw, what does this line mean?

[rough salmon]

only tea infuser
but I'm sure, buying a teapot isn't a big deal

[warm saddle]

Yeah sure I can do that, I’ll have to figure something out bc I don’t want you to get spammed or anything haha

[warm saddle]

Ah damn I have to fix that but it’s a modifier for how dirty you’re getting or rather the rate that your dirtiness is increasing, I think it’s just the tooltip that’s not updating correctly

[rough salmon]

Yeah, I reckon it got stuck at some point for me

[rough salmon]

I imagine it triggering just on the stage changes (why would you need it otherwise, heh)

Another idea. So you already have the groundwork for changing background color for needs icons, right? Would it be feasible to make a 100% transparency display with background color indicating the stage? For example:
Light blue -> Green -> Yellow -> Red

I am sure it will be way more readable than transparency, but I don't know how hard it would be to squeeze onto the current codebase

[warm saddle]

That doesn’t require any code actually, check out the staged icons

I’d recommend not changing the preset but just looking at a staged icon vs transparent

But yeah making staged icons cycles through them as your needs change, you can look at the examples in the settings and see how they’re formatted in textures/SunsDusk/staged or transparent icons

I could make them myself but if you have specific colours in mind you can do it too, they’re just pngs

Someone already made velothi staged icons, they don’t have backgrounds though

[rough salmon]

Yeah, there's them, but I like the classic background too much. So I've thought to make BG change color instead of the icons themselves

[warm saddle]

Yeah you’d just want to combine the velothi icon (or whatever icon you want) and the background in an image editor and then change the color of the background for each stage

[rough salmon]

I assume, the templates for custom-colored BGs are somewhere in the textures, so I would be able to make them myself

Cool :>

[warm saddle]

But yeah the backgrounds themselves aren’t staged and can’t go through the staged things but you can combine the background with the icon and do that

But yeah you can look at the other folders in the staged folder and see how those are named since you’ll want to do the same thing

Oh nice haha you like my preset, that’s cool

[rough salmon]

Oh yeah, it rocks

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme hardcoded my colours into the renderer so I wouldn’t need to keep saving them and whatnot haha

[charred tide]

Main criticism so far: Make the visual cues such as "cook", "clean", "refill water" optional in the scripting menu. Personally, I try to limit UI to a minimum especially in the centre of my screen. I accept it small, next to my health bar / map. Anything you did regarding bars / icons is top notch. I don't use a crosshair either for the same reason btw

Publicans offer a meal and drink for gold instead of the option to cook at the publican

Produced firewood shouldn't glow to indicate it has fallen from the tree.

Turn single-use bedrolls into bedrolls that can be reused forever.

The mod allows for a lot of customization in the script menu. The UI elements such as the bar and icons are absolutely fantastic and the best I have seen so far. The cooking system is much better than mine in DN. Great job on handling vampires and werewolves too. Temperature, wetness, cleanliness, hunger, thirst, bottle filling etc are well implemented.

[warm saddle]

You can toggle them in the UI settings, “disable tooltips” should cover most of them but yeah I’ll be adding an option for that soon

[warm saddle]

That’s to help you find the firewood, otherwise it’s difficult to see them because they blend in with the ground or if they fall in water or something

[warm saddle]

Many thanks, sera

[charred tide]

I understand why it's there but in Morrowind nothing else glows for user interactivity. In Morrowind logic the firewood is magically glowing now 😄

[tepid sedge]

publicans sell plenty of food, stews are custom generated and come in a googol different variations, so they will never be one of them

sry

[sour leaf]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/54534

This was just updated with a bath house!

[warm saddle]

Yup :)) I was just about to post it here!!

[half summit]

oh now we get to see how it's done

[warm saddle]

Ikr I’m hyped

[sour leaf]

The OpenMW shift is happening

I was surprised that White Suran now requires SSS

[rough salmon]

Mwse folks have similar mod too

And it's like a few years older than SSS

[sour leaf]

Yeah but White Suran now specifically says it's OpenMW only

It doesnt work with the MWSE version it seems

[rough salmon]

Sheesh

[sour leaf]

It's kinda crazy seeing third party mods adding features with SD in mind

It used to always be "Ashfall compatibility"

[rotund epoch]

That's weird. Why is that?

[sour leaf]

Idk I think SSS functions differently from the MWSE version

More up to date

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’s lit, although I’ve tried to make sun’s dusk as compatible with mods as possible so that modders dont need to do a ton of workarounds and stuff

[sour leaf]

Yeah it doesn't seem like it's patches but more like "I added an extra well/keg for Sun's Dusk users"

[rotund epoch]

"OMW's Ashfall" will soon become indispensable

[sour leaf]

I like this more than Ashfall so far lol

[rotund epoch]

Sure

[warm saddle]

Damn 0.o

I wasn’t expecting that

[rotund epoch]

Every TES game has a popular primary needs/survival mod. They fit TES very well yet the decvs usually ignored this. At least Survival Mode eventually made its way into Skyrim.

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure, I like them a lot

Forces you to take the game slower and think about what you’re doing more rather than just plowing through quests although there’s nothing wrong with that ofc haha

[sour leaf]

I can't play FNV without Hardcore mode now lol

[half summit]

New Vegas broke games, I can't play anything now without wondering how a ligh survival mechanic would fit on it. especially bgs games. didn't touch fo4 till it was in it

[rotund epoch]

Yeah, it's like default setting for me

[sour leaf]

Yea I genuinely don’t think I can play a Bethesda game without survival mechanics anymore tbh

Honestly I just like mods that give uses to otherwise useless items. Like I know food is used for potions but you don’t really need to engage with Publicans at all in vanilla if you don’t want to

Like you don’t have to rent a room or buy food or drinks

[warm saddle]

Yeah for sure

[sour leaf]

I also like that this mod gives functional uses to misc items like cups and bottles

Idk I’m a sucker for “immersion” mods in general but one thing I love about survival mods/modes is that it forces you to engage with the game differently

On many levels

Items that were useless aren’t anymore. Inventory management becomes more of a concern

[rotund epoch]

More use for taverns.

[sour leaf]

Mechanics that exist In vanilla are now super important

[sour leaf]

Exactly

[rotund epoch]

Time of day morr important

[sour leaf]

It enhances vanilla features too

Now there’s a reason to stay the night in a city. Hang out inside while it rains

[half summit]

ih-MUH-shun

stricter limits promote engagement

[warm saddle]

🥹

[rotund epoch]

Any other immersion mods you use but maybe aren't well-known?

[rough salmon]

yeah I don't think original green -> red progression will do it 🧐

[warm saddle]

You'd generally want something more pastel, I can try to come up with something if you want that's more in the realm of my preset colours

[rough salmon]

yeah, why not

I was thinking in the realm of less vibrant and more pastel colors too

[warm saddle]

Sleep: cfbddb
Thirst: d4edfc
Hunger: bfd4bc
Bathing: c7c3fa

For green you'd probably want something in the realm of what I have hunger at, maybe a little darker/more vibrant but not much

[rough salmon]

in case anyone would want to give it a shot too

dang, 6 stages is a handful

[warm saddle]

yeah haha, although if you're using gimp you can use the colour palette/history thing

[rough salmon]

i'm a proud adobe pirate

though photoshop sucks ass

[warm saddle]

Hahaha

Yeah photoshop should have something similar

[rough salmon]

yup

hmmmmmmmmmm

it's on a pale side, but looks pretty

[warm saddle]

Yeah that looks much better

[rough salmon]

though 4th stage turned out more brown than orange

[warm saddle]

You'd want to make it a little lighter/desaturated but generally with that background image you want to go lighter than you think since over half of it is gray/black

[rough salmon]

hmmmmmm

[warm saddle]

You're getting there haha

[rough salmon]

yeah, I think I'm satisfied

yeeeee

[warm saddle]

yeah looks great

[rough salmon]

in case anyone wants to use them, drop it into the Sun's Dusk Survival and Needs\textures\SunsDusk\staged

[warm saddle]

nice to see my colours getting some use too

Yeah I'll include them in the next update probably although tbh I should probably have an optional file with all of these xD

Not that 5mb is a lot but I think 3mb of that are just icons haha

[rough salmon]

I guess you could dynamically parse them and add to the settings. It's a hassle, but it's definitely doable

Also picking them without proper demo would be a nightmare 👀

[rough salmon]

the hell, pinpoint accuracy

[warm saddle]

I wanted to keep the file size under like 2 mb but realised that wouldn't be possible because most of that is just images

[rotund epoch]

Call me crazy... it's shocking, I know, I know... but I think that we can handle more than 2 mb for this GOAT mod

[half summit]

hey that almost takes a second to download, those add up, you know?

refund

[warm saddle]

I gotta find out how much memory a gameboy has

[rotund epoch]

Maybe @vernal marsh will help

How much memory the toys have?

Are they sentient?

[vernal marsh]

1gb for the wrong model, 2gb for the good one

you can compress pngs to dxt1/5 dds files

if you are actually worried

portmaster tooling will automatically handle extra compression of dds files. not sure about pngs

[warm saddle]

yeah we did dds at first but there ended up being some problem with them so we switched over to png which is better tbh since people can add their own icons easily

But nice good to know

I can add a redware teapot to vanilla now

[teal osprey]

on 1.5.8, i don't seem to be able to use Towels to dry off, Cloth works though.

im running 99% of the expanded vanilla list, two dozen various lua script mods that shouldn't really touch anything, and some of the recommended mods on the nexus page

[warm saddle]

Which towels? I missed a few OAAB ones 😅

[teal osprey]

ahh, yeah its OAAB ones

[warm saddle]

Got all the TD cloths but there are like 5 different types of towels for OAAB haha

Yup they're covered in the next update

[teal osprey]

thats good, just wanted to make sure my install wasn't broken lol

[warm saddle]

Np!

Btw @vernal marsh sorry to ping you haha but I have your heather tea

[rough salmon]

Is iron ore from (I suppose) Simply Mining supposed to satiate you?

[warm saddle]

Yes but it’s toxic

[rough salmon]

not as toxic as chokeweed, it seems
2 iron ore and nothing, but 1 chokeweed and weakness to common disease for half an hour

(it was an accident )

[warm saddle]

But yeah I’ll take a look because that doesn’t seem right

[mild crystal]

you probably won't feel hungry after grinding your teeth on raw metal and swallowing it down tbh

[rough salmon]

Do Bosmer gain additional bonuses for Green Pact diet? 🤔

To encourage the RP, I mean

[charred tide]

How do I drink from the bottle without pouring it over my head?

[rough salmon]

By binding bottles to the quick select keys 🤔

Also what are more specific conditions on getting well-nourished? Current description is a little too vague

[warm saddle]

No, but I made it easier for them to get it because of their racial passives

[warm saddle]

There’s a setting to disable that, if you’re talking about the jumping and spilling thing

[rough salmon]

yeah, works too

[warm saddle]

Right now the conditions are eating meal with different hunger values, so eating bread, a crab and marshmarrow would be a “diverse” meal, do that enough and you’ll get it (but not by spamming), although it’s been reclusive lately so I think there might be a problem with how it’s being applied

[rough salmon]

Weird, since it seems like mod incentivizes you to cook too. I'd assume, soups would have roughly the same nourishment

Or no?

[warm saddle]

Yeah, soups would count as a large meal so pairing it with veggies or something would be ideal

Although soups like completely restore your hunger so hmm 🧐

[rotund epoch]

I don't want to spam another thread so I will ask this here. How will that durability loss when swimming/wet work? What's the rate? Will it depend on wetness level? Will it affect every equipment type?

IMO it should be rather subtle effect. Equipment doesn't become useless quickly when it's raining or sth. It's a process.

[warm saddle]

Yup

[rotund epoch]

would be cool if only unsheated weapons were affected by rain

during swimming everything could be affected

IIRC swimming immediately gives 100% wetness so the highest possible lvl

[warm saddle]

Yeah it’ll probably just be armour

[rotund epoch]

well, using bows during rain is not exactly advised...

👀

but maybe the unsheated state would be generic enough to include for all the weapons

just thinking out loud

[warm saddle]

Not going to get too crazy with it initially haha

[rotund epoch]

yeah but it's good to have ideas on the nice-to-have list 😄

[charred tide]

Pouring water bottles over my head to clean my naked self in the local tavern. Peak Nord behaviour.

[rotund epoch]

but did you do what any Nord should do?

[charred tide]

I should have been drunk too

[rotund epoch]

no, no, that's not enough

|| https://youtube.com/shorts/xYyvW_A7ejM?si=fToNfIu6dTvNKW8h|| - here is a pro tip

this is peak Nord performance

[winter slate]

Hi, some errors

[warm saddle]

Oh that’s very much intentional

Unless you’re in windhelm but I thought I blacklisted windhelm 🧐

But alright haha I’ll either make a setting or blacklist them

I want to cut down all the nord homes

[rotund epoch]

POV: you are a Dunmer nationalist

[warm saddle]

Yes

[rotund epoch]

funny that the Dunmer hate the Nords the most after the Argonians but they ended up on freaking Solstheim in Skyrim

[warm saddle]

Why else would I travel to Skyrim

[rotund epoch]

btw @warm saddle I think that you forgot about the most important detail regarding temperature!

you need to become cold near Almalexia (the goddess, not the city)

after all, she is a cold-hearted bitch

so it's appropriate

[warm saddle]

Uncle Crassius is a heat source

[rotund epoch]

also appropriate

[charred tide]

drying off in front of fire objects takes quite some time, I usually wait for an hour

[rotund epoch]

good

it was way too fast before

maybe they changed that

[warm saddle]

Ugh did he change it back

[rotund epoch]

funny that you don't even say the name and it's obvious who you mean 😅

reading about your cooperation process is always an experience!

[grizzled flume]

Could there be a possibility to add a bathhouse to this mod? https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/50046

[warm saddle]

Oh that’s cool, I haven’t heard of that mod before haha

I haven’t made any bathhouses but I’ll investigate and see if there’s a way to add bathing there. In the meantime you could simply add a well to the area and use that to get wet for bathing, or if you have TD/OAAB you can add a washbasin or barrel of water

[sour leaf]

This video is becoming this discord server's equivalent of the Paul Rudd Mac and Me video

[rotund epoch]

I have another good one, though. Check it out: || https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=XAUXcNZSyGpWziFT ||

[sour leaf]

Classic

S3maphore should have a feature where there's like a 1% chance of a bardcore version of this song playing instead of the normal playlists.

[rotund epoch]

Yes but it should be Todd singing

[rough salmon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVl59q52HgI

[sour leaf]

Even better

[rotund epoch]

Funny how Dagoth Ur became so iconic yet nobody gives a shit about TES4 or TES5 antagonists.

So bland

[winter slate]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-pig-gif-22797089

[sour leaf]

I know it’s a meme at this point but Morrowind really has the most interesting main quest of the series imo

The characters and lore just have so much more intrigue (to me at least)

[rotund epoch]

not even close

it's not that MW's MQ is so uber awesome. It has its flaws

[sour leaf]

Oh definitely

[rotund epoch]

but OB and SM are simply bad, lol

[sour leaf]

But the others are more flawed lol

[sour leaf]

Yeah exactly

[rotund epoch]

Skyrim's MQ is literally the worst part of the game

so boring

[sour leaf]

I genuinely don’t really remember most of it

And I’ve played through it like 3 times

[rotund epoch]

and Alduin is so forgettable. He was basically Nord's version of Akatosh. In Skyrim he is... a dragon but a bit bigger and stronger? Like wtf?

[rough salmon]

tbh after like 20 hrs of videos on lore Mankar Camoran and Alduin look quite good in their own right

but only in the lore and after deliberate lore digging

having dogshit MQs in their games doesn't help too

[rotund epoch]

what do you remember about Alduin from the game?

I remember that he resurrected dragons

and that alone was a shitty plotline

lol

[rough salmon]

I didn't even get to him, dude

[sour leaf]

What’s cool about Morrowind is that a lot of the lore is presented to you in the MQ

[rough salmon]

[sour leaf]

And there’s even more depth if you wanna lore dig

[rotund epoch]

the building is very good in MQ

meanwhile in Skyrim YOU BEAT YOUR FIRST DRAGON A FEW HOURS INTO THE GAME

FFS

[rough salmon]

it is just esoteric enough to not be overwhelming

[sour leaf]

Morrowind’s main quest is the only one that I could see working as a show or movie. The hero’s Journey in it is the most clear

[rotund epoch]

and you can dig deeper if you want but don't have to

[sour leaf]

Yeah exactly

[rotund epoch]

the way it's done in-game? Not really. Too slow.

[sour leaf]

I mean not every step

[rotund epoch]

but if you adapted it a bit differently

then sure

[half summit]

oh man I hope they never try that 😅

[rotund epoch]

but it would be boring with PC being Dunmer

yeah

I hope that nobody does a movie about MW

[rough salmon]

is there a mod to change Hortator part of the MQ?

[rotund epoch]

keep it a dream

[sour leaf]

Oh they’d fuck it up for sure

[rotund epoch]

yeah

it's scary

just to think about it

[sour leaf]

I just mean it has the most potential as an adaptation

Like I feel like the story has the most intrigue

[half summit]

yeah true

[rotund epoch]

I don't think so. However, you can skip it in Vanilla if you have enough Reputation and high enough lvl so the option is there

[sour leaf]

I kinda like the Nerevarine being Dunmer tbh

[rotund epoch]

vanilla option

meh

boring

Dunmer being shocked because it's not another Dunmer is perfect

more opportunity for racism

https://tenor.com/view/meu-gif-27420939

[sour leaf]

Argonian

[rotund epoch]

PEAK

but even not so extreme

it would still be interesting to get a Bosmer or Redguard or Orc, whatever

just not a fucking Khajiit

because Dagoth would lose it

[rough salmon]

yeah, but
hear me out
having high rep makes MW uncannily friendly

...and it takes a butt load of work to get up

[rotund epoch]

yes

intended

[rough salmon]

yes

[rotund epoch]

you will get a lot of Rep in the MQ, though

if you do it fully

[sour leaf]

Idk I do feel like there’s something interesting about a dunmer who isn’t from Morrowind coming back somewhere that should be “home” but they feel unwelcome for various reasons. The massive imperial presence, the fact that even native Dunmer don’t like you

Idk I find that interesting

[rough salmon]

I just want to get over MQ as fast as possible to actually get to DLCs this time

[rotund epoch]

and it's even more interesting if the Dunmer have to react to a non-Dunmer person claiming to be recinarnated Dunmer hero

[sour leaf]

I do think it works better if the nerevarine is an argonian personally but I don’t think Dunmer is as boring of a choice as people seem to think

[sour leaf]

I agree

[rough salmon]

I know I can skip it
but I also want to see what mods I've installed for 6th House :)

[sour leaf]

What’s the worst option tho

[rotund epoch]

Argonian

for the Dunmer

[half summit]

breton

[rotund epoch]

for the players

xD

[sour leaf]

No like worst from a lore perspective

[half summit]

breton

[rotund epoch]

Argonian Nerevarine would be a fucking culture shock

[half summit]

like who cares

[rotund epoch]

just imagine it

ARGONIAN

[sour leaf]

I mean from like an outside perspective

Like the one that makes the least sense and has really weird implications

[rotund epoch]

hm

not sure

[half summit]

it would be good if there was that kind of extreme reaction

[sour leaf]

I feel like Imperial is pretty bad

[rotund epoch]

most of them are neutral options

Imperial sounds like a spy

oh wait

shit

too late

[sour leaf]

I feel like some of the races make the “mantling” theory make more sense

Where the PC isn’t actually the reincarnation of Nerevar but is sort of being allowed by Azura to fulfill that role in the prophecy

[rotund epoch]

the best part of Morrowind is that it allows different interpretations regarding the MQ and the biggest mysteries

[warm saddle]

I think so, there are a few main quest overhauls that add more options and choices and ways of going about things and whatnot

[half summit]

yeah like you just happen to fit so why not

[sour leaf]

Yeah exactly

[warm saddle]

I can find a few if you want, I didn’t download them I just know they exist haha

[rotund epoch]

you can literally ask Vivec and Dagoth Ur in-game if they think if you are the true Nerevar

they don't know

[rough salmon]

Eh, I don't want any overhauls, since I don't want to deal with their compatibility issues which will 100% be there :/

[rotund epoch]

Almalexia thinks you are

and she is crazy

xD

[sour leaf]

That’s one of my favorite parts. I kind of ignore the dragon breaks though. I kind of prefer the idea that it’s just real history and its disputed depending on who tells the story and what they have to gain from a particular narrative

[half summit]

that's why it's the best game

[rotund epoch]

the worst thing that Bethesda would do

would be to bring back the Dwemer

and resolve the mysteries

lol

[warm saddle]

Yeah pretty much, that’s why i didn’t install them haha

Don’t know what kind of dragons they be adding

[rotund epoch]

just thinking about all that is interesting

and where do you get that in Skyrim?

[sour leaf]

I do kinda like the keening side quest in Skyrim where the dude zero sums himself trying to figure it out lmao

[warm saddle]

Ikr, that was like my fav Skyrim quest

The one added in the DLC is giga cursed though

[half summit]

I couldn't help installing a bunch. I'm really worried about the later half of my game haha its going to be interesting

[rotund epoch]

I got half asleep just doing the MQ in Skyrim

they want you to do epic shit - fight dragons

and somehow it's fucking boring

like seriously

[warm saddle]

Only point of the main quest is to get dragonrend

[rotund epoch]

I won't do Skyrim's MQ when I return to that game

[warm saddle]

And going to a specific location in riverwood (if you have the mod installed) fixes that for you

[rotund epoch]

(if I return)

[sour leaf]

That makes it a lot more realistic too. There’s a lot of history where there’s disputed and conflicting accounts of the same events. Especially when it comes to religion

[sour leaf]

The sunder and wraith guard one?

[rotund epoch]

Morrowind being alien and magical yet somehow believable is literally what made me love this setting

you can "buy" this world

and it's fascinating

the lore, the art style, everything works together

[sour leaf]

The culture feels very real too

[rotund epoch]

yeah because it's a mix of RL cultures with a lot of fantasy thrown in but they went Dunesque with that one, i.e. make them seem foreign, alien, interesting

[warm saddle]

Yeah …

[sour leaf]

That’s why Morrowind’s quest mods are goated lol

[warm saddle]

I’d love a mod like populated civil war or just the civil war that had factions (great houses) fighting over territories or whatever for towns

[rotund epoch]

I have to say that it's impressive how well the TR team keeps the "spirit" of MW intact. It's new content but it seems seamless except the fact that the map is incomplete and you will face The Void near the edges

[warm saddle]

Bonus points for joining a great house and constantly having to retake an area like a paradox game

[sour leaf]

That’s what’s kind of annoying is that there’s no way Oblivion and Skyrim would ever be as alien as Morrowind but there was definitely a lot of potential to pull from real life cultures and mythology there

[sour leaf]

I’m sorry what lol

[warm saddle]

Probably not too bad with being able to generate NPCs

[rotund epoch]

you mean in Morrowind? That doesn't actually happen often. They have Morag Tong for that.

[sour leaf]

TR_Preview my beloved…

Gone but not forgotten

[rotund epoch]

yeah...

[warm saddle]

I mean Telvanni quests have you regaining strongholds and whatnot

Well all of them do

[rotund epoch]

small scale stuff

[warm saddle]

Yes by why not make them bigger and more populated

[rotund epoch]

but rules can be broken ofc

[warm saddle]

Why can’t I turn my elder scrolls game into a paradox map game

[rotund epoch]

I mean, in Almas Thirr everyone is talking about potential Indoril-Hlaalu conflict

[sour leaf]

Kinda sucks that people who don’t read had to ruin this for everyone lmao.

I know it was a pain to maintain for the team too but one of the reasons they stopped making it was because people would add the esp and then complain about the unfinished areas

[warm saddle]

We’ve already got wow and Minecraft

[half summit]

there was one mod recently for redoran to take back a town from telvanni

[rotund epoch]

it doesn't happen but it's possible in theory

we also have rogue Telvanni taking stuff on Vvardenfell

hostile actions

there is a conflict surrounding the Caldera Mine

[warm saddle]

Yeah exactly

Yup

[rotund epoch]

but none of this is real war

it's more like guerilla and diplomatic war

[warm saddle]

Yeah but skirmishes

I liked those Skyrim mods haha, walk outside of windhelm and the simperials are just throwing themselves at it xD

[half summit]

yeah i loved that mod

[rotund epoch]

man, I wish we got a heightmap for the whole province. Just give us some terrain to look pretty in the distance and display an immersive message near the border. That's it.

[rotund epoch]

Skyrim had literal civil war...

which was actually better than the MQ

lol

[half summit]

and it was half broken

[rotund epoch]

as usual

it's Todd's game

[sour leaf]

Yeah same

I’d take that over a void lol

[warm saddle]

Yeah but those mods were unrelated to the civil war, the mods would keep respawning attackers regardless of the civil war questline

[rotund epoch]

exactly

[rotund epoch]

meh

[warm saddle]

But MW AI would be dodgy at best

[rotund epoch]

best not try it

😄

[half summit]

I found an all tamriel heightmap for skyrim it would be awesome to use it at least just to fill out the map screen

[warm saddle]

I mean you could do vampire clans attacking or groups of dreamers/6th house cultists attacking

I mean why not haha

[rotund epoch]

ideally in the last stages of the MQ we would get actual Ordinator, Arminger and Great Houses skirmishes vs Dagoth's minions and dreamers near the Red Mountain

I imagine that sort of what happened in the lore

but the game was too limited for that

Vivec's plan described skirmishes

and people mention Armingers losing vs one of the Dagoths

so skirmishes happen

[sour leaf]

I think there’s a mod that adds random guards and whatnot around ghostfence when you get to the last stages of the MQ. They just stand there though. More of an aesthetic thing than a functional one

[rotund epoch]

yeah

because MW is mostly static

[half summit]

that would make a great mod, even just to show the aftermath of the skirmishes

[rotund epoch]

but they would attack creatures if they have the Guard class

the guards near the overhauled Ghostage in EV

attack the creatures around it

so it works

and Ghostage is damn impressive with that mod

looks like the concept art

[sour leaf]

You should check out CAGE to go with it

[sour leaf]

The “concept art ghostfence” in BCOM kinda sucks imo because it just adds giant swords to the the top of the existing pilons.

CAGE makes it more accurate to the concept art where the blades themselves are the fence

[rough salmon]

i don't get how it changes ones in BCOM tho

[sour leaf]

Wdym

[rotund epoch]

like seriously

it's peak

[rough salmon]

ohhhhhhhhhhh

I see now

[sour leaf]

This isn’t CAGE this is a different mod

[rough salmon]

it's BCOM

[rotund epoch]

whatever is in EV

it's this

[rough salmon]

this is CAGE

[warm saddle]

You don’t use BCOM? Or just the ghost fences for it

Gotcha

[rotund epoch]

so that's a different force field effect?

looks nice

is it still buggy as the other shader effects?

[sour leaf]

I do I just disabled the BCOM ghostfences and used the one from CAGE

[warm saddle]

Gotcha

[sour leaf]

The force field effect is the vanilla one

The difference is CAGE has the force field going between the blades themselves rather than the hilt, which is closer to the concept art

[rough salmon]

no, it's lower forcefield - it pierces through the daggers

[half summit]

yeah like in concept art

[rotund epoch]

peak

[sour leaf]

Btw, the mod page says Ghastly Glowyfence doesn’t work with CAGE but I’m using both and it seems fine

[rotund epoch]

they almost copied this

[rough salmon]

left is BCOM, right is CAGE

[rotund epoch]

is it compatible with EV/BCOM?

[sour leaf]

Yeah you gotta fuck around with it a bit though

[rotund epoch]

ugh

[rough salmon]

I suppose

[sour leaf]

Once I’m home I can show you how I got it to work with EV

[half summit]

yeah its less ott with cage. it's by the duo dynamico so you know it's quality work

[sour leaf]

You also might need to use Memento Mori buried because CAGE covers one of the doors with a rock lmao

[rotund epoch]

I wish the swords had the letters/runes from the concept art. They look cool. More pronounced, I mean.

[half summit]

poor memento mori

[rough salmon]

either way buried version is a goto, since it lags the hell out of my game for no apparent reason

[sour leaf]

I prefer the buried version. It looks cooler that way imo

[rotund epoch]

this is what Nexus gave me

with "CAGE"

I'm... not sure it's that...

[rough salmon]

try C.A.G.E.

[half summit]

yep that's the one

also get gurt 2

[warm saddle]

Oh btw, what’s the mod for the thing about Caius’ house ? While I’m here downloading mods

[rotund epoch]

oh that's so nice

[rough salmon]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/50272

really comfy thing

[warm saddle]

Thank u!

[rotund epoch]

now I want my Ghostfence to look like this

this sounds like Dragon Ball fusion, lol

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-ball-z-fusion-dbz-goten-trunks-gif-8263700045051414172

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme can’t use BCOM so I always try to find mods like this for him haha

[half summit]

yep pretty much

[sour leaf]

Why not

[warm saddle]

BCOM is English only afaik, idk if there are any other localisations

[sour leaf]

Memento Mori Buried enhances the mod imo

[sour leaf]

Where is ownlyme from?

[warm saddle]

Civilisation 🇪🇺

[rotund epoch]

most mods are English-only so non-English options will always be more limited

[sour leaf]

There’s a mod that replaces the force field texture with one that has runes on it. I know that’s not quite the same but it does look neat

[warm saddle]

Pretty much

[rough salmon]

his game is in German

[rotund epoch]

ok, we need that forcefield in EV

we need to promote that

in the Mod Suggestions

[warm saddle]

But yeah that’s why I’m glad most of the bathhouses are in exterior cells and why we do most things in lua since doing anything with interior cells isn’t an option

[sour leaf]

They’re already using Ghastly Glowyfence

[rotund epoch]

I still think that adding bathhouses to underground Temple interiors is the best and most logical way

[warm saddle]

There’s a mod that does that already

[sour leaf]

Which is “incompatible” with CAGE but I’m using both and haven’t noticed a problem

[warm saddle]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/42400

[rotund epoch]

they can switch. It's happened before

[sour leaf]

Yeah but I think dubious had said he wants to try moving most of them indoors to avoid conflicts

[sour leaf]

True but ghastly Glowyfence is cool

Adds a glow effect and a sound effect

[rotund epoch]

yeah

but it's buggy

[sour leaf]

Is it? What’s wrong with it

[rotund epoch]

as all shaders like that

[warm saddle]

Or just an enchanted ring that teleports you to a luxury bathhouse

[rotund epoch]

gaps

I will show you

[sour leaf]

Even with patches?

[half summit]

no just that I want to make new doorways that are small and fit in wierd places

[sour leaf]

Nostalgia

[sour leaf]

Ah that’s what it was my bad

[rough salmon]

Would be cool to have marks be linked to specific enchanted items

[sour leaf]

Oh yeah I’ve noticed that before

[warm saddle]

Hmm

[rough salmon]

I think Raf had a patch for these

[rotund epoch]

Vanilla doesn't have this problem

OMW does

[rough salmon]

It's an issue with post processing shaders

[rotund epoch]

so Vanilla is doing better

funny

I never had a problem with the Ghostfence in Vanilla

never

[half summit]

it's a shader issue with openmw, I hope they fix it, it drives me nuts with torches too

[rough salmon]

semi-transparent things get overridden by shader effects

[warm saddle]

Yeah but can you play vanilla long enough to get to ghostfence?

[rough salmon]

especially cloud and sky replacers

[rotund epoch]

you can go there on lvl 1 if you want

[warm saddle]

I mean like how long can you play it before it crashes

[rotund epoch]

unmodded? Probably not that bad

[rough salmon]

plus, once again, Raf had a patch for it
unless I'm reading the description wrong

[rotund epoch]

hm

if it's a working fix

then why it's not in EV?

[half summit]

oh yeah I forgot to test tgat

[rough salmon]

it's rather new, idk

[rotund epoch]

EV NEEDS EVERYTHING

everything important, at least

yes, SD as well

but

[rough salmon]

and yet it doesn't have my It Beats mod :<

[rotund epoch]

they will make a Survival list

SD will have a place there

[warm saddle]

Yeah they have the canonical gear though which is good but It Beats is like iconic

[half summit]

don't forget to bring a towel

[rotund epoch]

I usually promote immersion mods or mods that make the game more balanced/harder, i.e. I suggest to include them in EV

there are some EV additions that I find dubious

sorry @half summit

[rough salmon]

It got instantly accepted, since it replaced 3 other mwscript mods they were using

[rotund epoch]

it's not about you

[rotund epoch]

congrats on that

[warm saddle]

Understandable haha

[half summit]

so cool

[warm saddle]

Dubious’ bathhouses will get put in any of the modpacks too SD is going into POTI next update which is cool

[rough salmon]

oh neat

congrats

[warm saddle]

That will be out within a week or two, I’m just hoping to have my big update done in time before that

Thank you haha, I think you have a few as well

[rotund epoch]

Example: they use Pharis Magicka Regen and Focus Magicka mods in EV - 2 mods to regen magicka (whyyy?) that make it damn easy (whyyy?) - instead of simple, elegant, balanced and Vanilla-friendly solution developed by @vernal marsh

[warm saddle]

Backstabs for sure

[half summit]

I need to finish my fixes. I have no power right now 😭 got a bunch of bugs yo squash it's driving me nuts

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/so-long-katniss-everdeen-jennifer-lawrence-hunger-games-three-finger-salute-gif-4959991257576548702

[warm saddle]

Oldwind mods hit different fr fr

But still it’s really great, I was gonna travel around and take screenshots of the bathhouse locations for your mod page

Are there any locations you’re drastically changing or anything ?

[rough salmon]

oh, that would be really helpful

[half summit]

hmm I think gnisis is kinda junk.. but I'm not surr

[rough salmon]

I couldn't figure out the bathhouse in Ald-ruhn at all

[warm saddle]

I’ve been using the mod for forever so I know where they all are haha

[warm saddle]

It’s to the right of the temple

Like instead of going inside the temple, make a right as if you’re going towards red mountain

[rotund epoch]

I don't think these bathhouse locations are coherent ATM. Some of them seem kinda random.

[warm saddle]

Not me giving Morrowind NPC dialogue directions

[half summit]

yeah fr

[warm saddle]

Well yeah try to make a mod that’s compatible with every town overhaul ever xD

[rotund epoch]

it's like a patchwork solution to get it all working amidst all the mod incompatibilites

[rough salmon]

maybe incorporate them into temples where it possible? it sounds pretty sane and easy to navigate too

[warm saddle]

I mean people do these things like … individually haha, like 1 mod per bathhouse but that’s just mental with what I gave dubious

Someone could do temple bathhouses though

[rotund epoch]

just put them underground in the Temple interiors. Literally underground. You go the Temple to the lowest level. A door leads to the bathhouse there. It fits thematically and it has 0 exterior changes.

it's the best solution

out of the practical ones

[rough salmon]

1 for each temple and 1 for each shrine too maybe

[warm saddle]

I mean that’s already a mod that someone can add onto xD I gave dubious something completely different

[rotund epoch]

then add some to selected forts and such

[warm saddle]

Shrine absolutions would go hard 👀

[rotund epoch]

like Ebonheart, maybe

also underground

0 exterior changes

it fits

it just works

[warm saddle]

At that point you’d be better off installing Korona’s bath mod

You buy a bath and can put them anywhere

[rough salmon]

yeah, straight up in the sewers xd

[rotund epoch]

I will have no COVID in this town

[rotund epoch]

perfect

[warm saddle]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/55012

To put baths wherever you want

It’s … a lot haha but I love that mod, I have some special things in store for it

[half summit]

I just found that, its where all the resources for Stinkers came from, have you looked through that collection ? there's a tonn of resources that could be useful

[rotund epoch]

yeah but we are trying to find a lore-friendly and immersive solution

[warm saddle]

I have some of those mods yeah

Eventually I’ll add an item that’s a portable washbasin that you can place anywhere to bathe

That’s kinda what the tea thing is a test for

[rotund epoch]

I think that you won't find a better solution than undeground Temple bathhouses that's compatible with 99% mods

[warm saddle]

Well the tea is a test for several things

[rough salmon]

So... How do you think, unifying the bathhouses to just the temples and shrines is viable from the development standpoint?

[warm saddle]

And excludes the person who made bathing bug-free 😬

Although that can’t be helped at some point haha

[rotund epoch]

what do you mean?

[rough salmon]

making a patch for just 1 door isn't that hard

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme doesn’t play an English game, so any changes to interior cells get uh … buggy to say the least

[rotund epoch]

but that's always the problem with non-English versions

[warm saddle]

He’s been messing with the Caius rooftop revisions since you sent it to me and still hasn’t fixed it entirely

[rough salmon]

nah, there's two special MW localizations

russian and I think german

[warm saddle]

Russian and … something else yeah?

German and Swedish have special characters

[rough salmon]

yeah, I don't remember the second one exactly

[warm saddle]

Idk which other ones

[half summit]

Italian I've seen and chinese

[rotund epoch]

Mym gave up on the French version of the game long ago because it was too limiting. Much easier to play in English in a heavily modded game even if it's harder for non-native speakers

I saw Polish translations of various mods. Made me nostalgic because 20 years ago I made a mod fixing various problems with PL version of the game, lol

but I wouldn't get back to it. I mean, who the heck would translate TR?

[warm saddle]

I mean there isn’t really a point to translating TR since it’s all a modded area

[rough salmon]

I've switched from the russian one as soon as I started adding any text-related mods. The immersion break was too high price to pay

[rotund epoch]

yeah, you basically will have English text if you install any quest mod or sth

[rough salmon]

and yet people love translating it
maybe because they like to play in the language they know

[warm saddle]

That’s true

[rotund epoch]

funnily enough, years ago I made mod translations for my own personal use, lol

[warm saddle]

Dialogue and whatnot I can understand for sure but translating all those cells

[half summit]

esperanto version when

[warm saddle]

Or just go hard and play the game in daedric

[half summit]

I have my main menu in daedric it's dope

[rotund epoch]

main menu is easy

[half summit]

"no n'wah edition"

oh sorru

illl do something cooler next time

[rotund epoch]

playing in Daedric would be too much

also, it's assumed that the in-game language isn't actually English

it's whatever our character can understand

nobody would call it English obv

[half summit]

the common tongue

[rotund epoch]

that's Westeros, son

[half summit]

westeros is a rip

[rotund epoch]

RIP? Yeah, sure. I mean, Martin will never fish the books

so it is RIP

[half summit]

yeah why would he at this point. he never had a plan anyway

[rotund epoch]

some of these books are older than Morrowind

fuck, older than Daggerfall

[half summit]

game of thrones?

[rotund epoch]

1996

[half summit]

damn he's slow

[rotund epoch]

it was released before fucking Daggerfall

at this point Todd will release TES 6 before Martin releases Winds of Winter

[half summit]

hmm

[rotund epoch]

even Bloodborne will come out on PC before Martin releases WoW

ok, ok, let's not go that far

that would be too crazy

[half summit]

I want proof tes6 exists

[rotund epoch]

Sony will release another TLOU2 remaster instead

[warm saddle]

Apparently the UESP team tested it

[rough salmon]

tested the lore?

[warm saddle]

Created a character

The ultimate elder scrolls boss

[rotund epoch]

btw folks, do you find UESP Lore pages... readable? I find them close to useless because they combine stuff from all the games and there are no filters. There is a ton of ESO slop there and such

filters would be good

[rough salmon]

I don't read lore
I watch videos on youtube while eating

[half summit]

hmm did that could be faked pretty easy..

[warm saddle]

A fellow medieval peasant mindset enjoyer

[rotund epoch]

I listen to those long Elden Ring videos while washing the dishes, cleaning etc.

[warm saddle]

If I find something questionable I look at the sources and see if it’s ESO and then erase it from my personal canon

[half summit]

yep

it always is if its like "20 year mystery solved" ah.. eso...

[rotund epoch]

xD

[sour leaf]

I noticed it on trueflame with a mod I had

[rotund epoch]

btw I once watched a stream when somebody finished Elden RIng and was like: wtf? But I still don't know what it all about! Gets me every time.

[sour leaf]

What’s the link to this?

[rough salmon]

just Raf's shaders

[half summit]

oh.. sweet summer child..

[rotund epoch]

you know what we could have in OMW? Item descriptions like in Dark Souls/Elden Ring

[half summit]

yeah i was thinking this too

[rotund epoch]

so much potential!

[half summit]

it would really cool

[rotund epoch]

btw with EV installed I already get DS/ER vibe when discovering a new location because of "PELAGIAD DISCOVERED" and the sound that plays. It was a bit of PTSD, not gonna lie

[half summit]

what mod does that?

[rotund epoch]

no idea

some mod from EV

lemme have a look

[sour leaf]

Oh nice

[half summit]

let me know if you get it working

[sour leaf]

I’ll try it out once I’m
Home

[rotund epoch]

wait, the AI says it's Vanilla. Not sure whether it's true or not.

is there sth like that in Vanilla?

[warm saddle]

It’s the Skyrim mod for it haha

Skyrim quest notifications or something ? Idk

[rough salmon]

no it's not
it's from SSQN

[sour leaf]

Just out of curiosity, do you remove any mods from EV?

[sour leaf]

In Vanilla your location shows up over the minimap when you enter a new cell but it isn’t a notification and it happens every time, not just on first discover

[rotund epoch]

Ok thx

The AI lied

As fucking usual

Jeez

[rotund epoch]

Yeah

[sour leaf]

What mods? I’m trying to whittle down my modlist as much as possible lmao

[rotund epoch]

I will check the list, give me a second

[half summit]

jiub

jiub

[rotund epoch]

I leave Jiub alone

[rough salmon]

gurt

gurt

[vernal marsh]

oh god I read that as "taxes" and had a mini crisis over here thinking I'm way behind

also sorry about no power. floods?

[half summit]

no im on a solar system, no sunlight this time of year 🤷

I have a generator to supplement but my brother stole it

[warm saddle]

Damn that’s wild

[half summit]

Well borrowed

[warm saddle]

Oh ok haha

[vernal marsh]

dubious out here doing survival mode in real life

[half summit]

poor choice of words but it was annoying

[half summit]

fr modding from a cabin with goats outside

it's peak

[warm saddle]

Irl Goatherdwind

[half summit]

yeah i was so stoked that came out

[warm saddle]

Hahaha aww that’s lit

I’ll have to check that mod out and see if I can add anything

[sour leaf]

I think he also plans to add Guars too

[half summit]

oh yeah that would be cool, idk what but something

[rotund epoch]

on it... I will add reasons for removing the mods just for fun, lol

[sour leaf]

I added comments to my customization file to explain to myself why I removed them

[half summit]

I was talking to wolfweim about doing regional stuff for the goats and it was a bit out of his scope at the time but that was before sd

[sour leaf]

No rush I’m just curious what other people remove so I can see if I want to remove them lmao

[rotund epoch]

Mods I removed:

Adventurer's backback - I would love to get a proper backpack mod but I'm not too hot on the implementation. I don't want it to "consume" a pauldron slot and janky things like this. I also don't want it to be just a Feather buff. Backpack should be mandatory if you want to carry more stuff than you can wear. I assume that every adventurer wears one but until it gets properly implemented (i.e. it will feel like an integral part of the game), I'm not using it.

Caldera Priory - I played this mod once and it's very impressive with its location design. Unfortunately, it's just Diablo in Morrowind. It's not lore-friendly. Doesn't fit the world. Out.

Signpost Fast Travel - what is this? Skyrim? AC? Witcher? Modern gaming exploration curse in MY Morrowind? Over my dead body.

an-nwahs-guide-to-modern-culture-and-mythology.omwaddon - immersion-breaking.

Protected Beasts - boots magically turning into versions compatible with Argonians and Khajiit - the beastfolk who are viewed with hostility in Morrowind - is far too much player convenience BS to my taste

Protective Guards - good concept but leads to too many issues and can make the game easy in situations when it shouldn't be. It's clear that the game wasn't made with this mod in mind because the developers - quest and location designers - didn't have to think about such interactions. Same goes for modded content - most modders don't think about interactions with this mod so they don't know when it leads to issues. For the same reason I don't use Pursuit mod. Makes sense and should be in the game but after playing several hours with it I became painfully aware that the game wasn't made with it in mind. Sadly out, then.

Tel_Eurus - tried it and found it a bit too moddy/jarring to my test. Still, a lot of effort was put into this mod. I don't need it, though.

Fabulous Hlaalo Manor - cheat mod. Makes it more convenient to live in a house you don't own. Out.

Sloadic Transport - great models but 0 world integration. I would keep the mod if the Sload actually felt like part of the game world instead of just standing there with 0 dialogue and nobody ever mentioning them even though the race is rarely seen in Tamriel and usually viewed with hostility because, you know, they even managed to cause a freaking Black Death event on the continent.

Timescale Change - I removed that mod because I use Dynamic Timescale and it's superior in every way.

Fatigue Speed And Carry Weight Rebalance - this mod just makes carrying capacity easier to handle. No drawbacks. If anything, I would like to make carrying capacity more hardcore, not easier. Out.

ZEF_FocusMagicka_1.2.2 and Pharis Magicka Regeneration - these mod try to achieve the same thing and EV doubles down on it for some reason. Using both makes magicka far too easy to manage. I use Slow Magicka Regen instead.

No Witness No Bounty - Burglarly Overhaul integrates this mod so it's superfluous. I still play with that option turned off, though. Too easy for muderhobos. I would like to have a proper crime investigation system in-game btw but it is what it is.

Talking Trains Speechcraft - this is just a freebie. No effort on the player's part, just playing the game. Too convenient. Out.

Races RESPECted and BirthsignsRESPECted - disabled because I use Rebalanced and Nerfed Vanilla Races and Birthsigns. I find that mod far better balanced and less OP.

[half summit]

protective guards is worth keeping if you work on the blacklist to remove cheese but otherwise good choices

[rotund epoch]

yeah I think that the idea is good but far too much of a hassle to manage

I didn't check your Sload patch

I may try it out just to see what you did

[half summit]

it's underdeveloped because of other projects taking my attention

[rotund epoch]

understandable

that flying Sload ship is sick

[half summit]

ikr

[rotund epoch]

I want to keep that mod in but damn

these are Sloads

[half summit]

really deserves more

[rotund epoch]

yeah

[sour leaf]

I removed a lot of the same mods for similar reasons

[half summit]

it's funny how they were never in the game. looking at concept art, Kirkbride was so in live with them "too cool to pass up" I guess todd wasn't into them

[rotund epoch]

I'm undecided on ~~Aether Pirates ~~Lord of Rebirth mod. I played it once and it was quite cool. Nice story. One problem, though. Voice acting. A lot of effort was clearly put into the mod but damn, it's so jarring when these NPCs speak and then use standard NPC voicelines 5 seconds later

[sour leaf]

Wait that mod has voice acting?

[rotund epoch]

or they were too hard to implement back then

[rotund epoch]

sorry

wrong mod

I confused it

it's sth else

wait

[half summit]

yeah but you'd think they would have got to it by now

I mean ..

eso

[rotund epoch]

Lord of Rebirth

it's this one

[half summit]

but like for real

[sour leaf]

Oh huh

[rotund epoch]

Aether Pirates is better

no voice acting

and decent integration

[half summit]

yeah it looks cool I haven't got to it yet

[rotund epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/thor-avengers-avengers-endgame-dont-say-that-name-gif-20019194

ESO is so uncanny

I dunno, it feels as if someone was LARPing TES

I bet that it has good bits

[sour leaf]

I’ll send you my list too

[rotund epoch]

but damn, the overall feel is... bad

[rotund epoch]

absolutely

I also have many additions

[sour leaf]

Same lmao

[rotund epoch]

haha

[sour leaf]

I really really wanted to like ESO but I just couldn’t

I’m not a big fan of MMOs in general

They give me FOMO

[half summit]

it was almost cool but it was so lame in other way

[half summit]

yeah i hate that

[rough salmon]

to defeat the FOMO, you have to soak into it first

[sour leaf]

Ehh

[rough salmon]

I've had my fair share of it the first time I saw season passes

[sour leaf]

Idk at the end of the day I feel like I’d rather just play one of the normal TES games

[rough salmon]

I'm not saying you should play ESO
I have a free copy lying in the EGS and too afraid to launch it too

mostly due to general lack of interest in MMOs and knowledge that they're a major time sink if you want to feel them

[sour leaf]

Exactly

[warm saddle]

Yeah … that’s why I avoid MMOs these days

[sour leaf]

The only one I ever got into was Club Penguin lmao

[warm saddle]

Ownlyme wants to drag me back to classic WoW but if he did then y’all would never hear from me again

[rough salmon]

do you even know how many games I could've finished by the time I reached 3k hrs in Rocket League? I certainly don't

[warm saddle]

No money no books disabled

[rough salmon]

good

he should use Shelf Control instead

[rotund epoch]

Same. In my opinion there is not enough role-playing and too much grind in them.

[sour leaf]

Exactly

[warm saddle]

Oh wait I thought that was the omwscripts for it

My bad

The name for it I mean

[half summit]

mmos need s big evolution to get me to try again. imo the whole formula is stale

[rotund epoch]

GOAT mod. Hats off, sir.

and you @warm saddle

[warm saddle]

Yeah I like it a lot more than I thought I would haha

[sour leaf]

I like how half of the popular mods for this game are about making it more of a pain in the ass to play

That’s not a complaint

I removed mods from EV that make the game easier

[rough salmon]

-# Don't tell anyone, but faction owned books don't get readable with the mod rn

[rotund epoch]

I actually have a suggestion regarding that mod. When it's a guard class, think about using a different text. It's weird to get "Ordinator".

and I got sth like that in Almas Thirr

this book belongs to... Ordinator

😄

[rotund epoch]

shhh, I won't tell anyone. Nobody needs to know.

[rough salmon]

The ordinator lines should trigger only if there's ordinators in the cell, not if they're owners

[warm saddle]

I think that’s a TR thing for making things owned by ordinators, no ?

[rotund epoch]

Just seemed weird that the text said "name" and then "Ordinator"

[warm saddle]

But idk what ownership looks like in vanilla tbh

[rotund epoch]

most likely

[warm saddle]

It’s why I haven’t touched ownership for soap and towels yet

[rotund epoch]

but I think that with a slight text change it will be good

still a GOAT mod

[rough salmon]

wdym

[sour leaf]

Just assign them all to shady smuggler lmao

[warm saddle]

Like I haven’t looked at any of the ownership mechanics in the lua API or anything yet

[rough salmon]

the ownership is exposed
it's the detection which is tricky and hacky

[warm saddle]

Fun fact: a bug with owned containers / restocking was causing some mushrooms to disappear

[rough salmon]

rats were eating them

[warm saddle]

With sun’s dusk haha

Just the old classic

You know

local function replaceInInventory(inv, cont, containerType)
    local Misc      = types.Miscellaneous
    local replaced  = 0
    if cont and types.Container.record(cont).isOrganic then
        return 0
    end```

Can’t forget the isOrganic

[rotund epoch]

because it fits the world vibe. It's easy to get a lot of immersion in TES. Not even just Morrowind. Skyrim. Even Oblivion. FPP, the way the world is presented, the scale, the lore, the fact that even generic NPCs have houses and names, the fact that there are things which other games would consider useless like books of various types with actual text etc. - all this makes you want to get more immersion and that often includes features that make the world seem a harsher place and less convenient to the player. You know, like... primary needs mod 😄

[rough salmon]

we call it "fixing the game for the devs"

[warm saddle]

Todd always leaves the work half finished

[rotund epoch]

yeah

modders will do the rest

Todd swims in money

[sour leaf]

Oh I agree. Like I said, im not complaining at all

[warm saddle]

It be like that

[rotund epoch]

People will be shocked when TES 6 comes out and it doesn't have half of the features modded Skyrim has

[warm saddle]

Not me lmfao, I got my plat trophy for PS5 this year

It was a struggle

Mostly the UI tbh, I could barely live with everything else but it was a struggle

Playing Skyrim without mods was the real achievement

[rotund epoch]

Yeah but it's been so long that many folks won't remember Vanilla SM experience

[warm saddle]

True haha

[strong plover]

That's the only reason we have any features tbh. If he actually did his job he'd cut eeverything.

[rotund epoch]

wondering what will be removed next

[strong plover]

Watch them make illusion part of alteration tree or something dumb like that.

[half summit]

walking. it'll be a rails shooter like time crisis but with a stealth archer

[sour leaf]

AudiobooksofMorrowind: Wasn't a fan. Plus I prefer to read the books myself.
ActionCameraSwap: I found this mod annoying. I usually just play entirely in first person.
SMMaskofDagothUr: Doesn't really make sense to have this appear. Plus, the model doesn't match the Dagoth Ur character model
WanderingUmbra: I like the other randomizer mods but this one I preferred to keep the same. Especially because I'm pretty sure it doesn't change the rumors in Suran
EarlyTransporttoMournhold: Didn't feel necessary to me. Not sure why I'd want to go to Mournhold early.
SignpostFastTravel: Really clever implementation, but I prefer the vanilla travel network.
AnNwahsGuideToModernCultureAndMythology: Immersion breaking and felt unnecessary for me personally.
ComfyPillowforarestfulsleep: I like to suffer
Fargoth's Mountain Hut: I feel like this mod's inclusion on the list is some sort of inside joke. That being said, I never use this house.
CorporealCarryableContainers: The only container I'd use is the keyring and I feel like 1000 gold is way too expensive.
GonzosSplashScreens: Replaced with LoadingScreensDiversified because I'm nostalgic for the OG splash screens
SorcererofAlteration: I saw that this mod was on the chopping block for the momw lists and there were a bunch of complaints about it in the server

NewStarfields: Most of these are way too over the top. Plus, the vanilla skybox has actual constellations
Solthas Combat Pack: Didn't really like the features this added. Plus, I've been messing around with CHIM
TheForgottenShields-Artifacts: The textures used aren't lore friendly (one shield has Medusa on it). Plus I replaced it with FMGS - Unique Items Compilation which gives many of the same shields unique designs but it uses vanilla textures.
StatsandPotionsLimitOpenMW: I don't really abuse potions in this game. Plus, Devilish Alcohol Overhaul already limits the amount of alcohol you can drink.
UpscaledJournalandBookmarkBGReplacement: Replaced with trav's journal
PracticalNecromancyOpenMW: I preferred the simplicity of the Black Soul Gems mod. Plus, the Black Soul Gems mod makes use of the OAAB Black Soul Gem Asset.
BCOM - Concept Art Ghostfence Pillars: Replaced with C.A.G.E
Daisy's Lua Multimark: Replaced with Pure Lua Multimark because I like the way it works more.
Protected Beasts: I've always liked the fact that beast races can't wear helmets or boots in Morrowind. Feels more immersive.
ILavaGoodMeshReplacer: Replaced with Pimp My Lava
PerfectScum: Replaced with One Scum to Rule them All
TimeScaleChangeOpenMW: Replaced with Dynamic Timescale
FMBPGreetService: Replaced with Great Service
VvardenfellAnimatedMainMenu: Replaced with Animated Daggerfall Main Menu

[rotund epoch]

the hut got the cut at some point. CCC is good for homes and such. It's true that it's too expensive. You can afford it in-game but it doesn't really make sense that the crates and chests cost so much

[sour leaf]

Fargoth's hut is still on the list

[sour leaf]

It doesn't make sense that a keychain costs that much lmao

[rotund epoch]

no

got removed some time ago

[rotund epoch]

yeah

the prices are nonsencial

although they are harder gameplay-wise than they should be

[sour leaf]

C:\games\OpenMWMods\PatchesFixesandConsistency\MOMWPatches\74 Fargoth's Mountain Hut Fixed Hammocks

The original mod was removed

It uses the MOMW Patches version now

[rotund epoch]

lol, they tried that hard to keep that in?

[sour leaf]

Yep

I don't get it tbh

[rotund epoch]

then I will remove it as well, lol

[rotund epoch]

Starfields are very beautiful but I agree that many of them are over the top. I've been thinking about removing them because Vanilla ones aren't bad. Also, it will be a nice visual change in the next playthrough. Potions Limit mod is a must-have IMO. That or Alchemical Hustle. Alchemy is utterly broken without this. Protected Beasts - I actually removed that as well, lol. Forgot to mention it.

[sour leaf]

Once I found out the vanilla skybox has findable constellations I switched lol. also, from what I can tell, Skies IV includes an upscaled Vanilla skybox as well

[rotund epoch]

Starfields aren't too jarring because MW is an alien place but 2 playthroughs with that may be enough

[sour leaf]

Yeah but I wanted the lore friendly skybox

[rotund epoch]

and I agree that loss of constellations is a downgrade

[sour leaf]

I only removed potion limit because it was doing weird shit with Alcohol Overhaul

[rotund epoch]

maybe SD will handle alcohol in its own way someday?

[sour leaf]

I wish this worked for OpenMW https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/52941

[sour leaf]

I believe hyacinth said he had plans for that

[rotund epoch]

hard to keep up, ha ha. Would be cool to get the planned features list 😄

[warm saddle]

It’s ok, I know that no one reads mod descriptions these days haha

[rotund epoch]

cool concept. I would also like the birthsigns to give various effects depending on the month, i.e. become more or less powerful.

[warm saddle]

Good idea

[rotund epoch]

I read all of them but not the updates

[sour leaf]

That could kinda go along with your religion mod

[rotund epoch]

only when I get back to the mod in question

[rotund epoch]

birthsigns are unrelated

[sour leaf]

Yeah true

Feels similar

[warm saddle]

Different deities might favour some birth signs over others though 🧐