Devilish Needs

[limpid yew]

not hoarding is a fine idea....til you realize not everyone knows,or wants to cook.
aka immersion. the very reason why this mod exists

a khajit thief who doesnt care bout the survivalist lifestyle as he likes the good life in the city and would rather eat meals prepared by others for him paid for by his night time activities rather than slog away like a maid infront fo the fire. wont he atleast have a stash of2-5 food in his backpack knowing he wont be able to stomach the rats he has to kill in the sewers while getting to the treasury room?
vs
an upstanding (and uptight) redoran warrior/tribunal pilgrim who lives off the land and can do it better than bear grylls and not only drinks his own pee after turning it into water by vivecs grace like jesus did to water but also....id leave that up to yalls imagination

[hardy sentinel]

You can carry bread and scuttle

[limpid yew]

lol. you already know you see the reasoning why it should be there atleast. besides, the og mod had an option for us to buy the very food items we prepare over the fire...wouldnt it be possible to have some custom food you developed be distributed to the publicans?

[oblique imp]

hmm, seems a bit weird for this to happen randomly if you eat via dialogue. Applying water would be more neutral esp with your alcohol mod where you may want to avoid some negative effects related to drinking.

[limpid yew]

the food could be purchased from the regular rade menu

[oblique imp]

the big question is whether these items even exist in this form

do they have models, icons, effects etc.?

[hardy sentinel]

No, technically they are potions to avoid "... had no effect" alchemy messages

[limpid yew]

oh lol... i thought they did. its cool if they dont. i always thought they had all those things consideirng the effort put into the cooking models

[oblique imp]

cooking models are visible, these items are not if they are automatically consumed 😄

[limpid yew]

i see what you mean...but dont understand how it can be done wihout creating them as in-game items...but then again, my capaibilities with a computer begin and end with turning it on and off

iots all cool..im glad the alpha will be soon out...

everything doesnt need to be done on day one

[oblique imp]

I assume that the trick is that the mod forces "potion" consumption and these "potions" are the cooked/grilled items. It's also easy to apply several magic effects that way. Hopefully it's just 1 potion so I don't get too much toxicity from Alchemical Hustle mod and die 😆

[limpid yew]

or there wont be need for a changelog at all

[limpid yew]

if thats the case, then a lot of mods in mwse which provide the player an option to have alternate start with varying degrees of predefined backstory and specialized stats/effects/etc shouldve been ported over already....but maybe no one thought of it yet

but dont mind me seriously...im just spitballing

mod looks great man!

[oblique imp]

the hoarding thing is really not a big deal as you can use standard food items to satisfy hunger or eat via dialogue. Cooking/grilling is an additional feature.

[limpid yew]

definately gonna be a shoo-in for all the openmw modlists which change gameplay wihout a doubt! congrats mate!

[oblique imp]

so it's not sth essential IMO. Maybe a nice-to-have in the future

[limpid yew]

wont you like to use perfect placement and put a bowl of soup and some grilled meat on that table?

[oblique imp]

ha ha

[limpid yew]

said the man who has yet to actually ever use perfect placement ever...aka me

[oblique imp]

it's cool for house decoration

[limpid yew]

ofc... v3.0 incoming. devil too busy copy pasting the comments for a roadmap

[exotic swallow]

looks great. i think we're gonna need some sort of time display on the UI, i remember that being very crucial in ashfall. i've tried to use openmw time date & holidays mod but i couldn't get it to work properly but maybe there's a better layout for it

[limpid yew]

theres a lot of problems with the time/date/holiday mod on openmw....from what i rem, you dont really have any sort of customization built into the mod iirc. makes it useless for people using total overhaul atleast since it alters the ui significantly

or maybe its something else, its been a while since i tried that mod

[exotic swallow]

yeah. i dont think we'd need the holidays/date display, we just need the time of day. something akin to this from daggerfall https://www.nexusmods.com/daggerfallunity/mods/25

obviously this is a bit out of topic but i'm already trying to find mods to complement devilish needs 🤣

[hardy sentinel]

There is no plan to add a time display to this mod 😄

[exotic swallow]

yeah i wasnt trying to ask for something like that, just looking up mods that'll work with yours

[hardy sentinel]

You can move my lua icons around if they are in the way so if such a mod exists it'll work with my mod

[limpid yew]

it needs to be done by an external mod by someone focussing on that aspect alone, too many things would otherwise be shoved into your survival mod

[oblique imp]

9:21 how did you contract a Disease?

[hardy sentinel]

That's part of Frostwind

[oblique imp]

oh really?

interesting

[hardy sentinel]

you can contract blight diseases in blight storms

[oblique imp]

nice

[hardy sentinel]

and apparently around dagoth ur

[oblique imp]

cool!

[hardy sentinel]

I'll see what I can do about the fade outs, I understand the criticism

[oblique imp]

The mod is pure hype. It was great to see it in action, so thank you very much for that showcase 🙂 .

[hardy sentinel]

one second fadeout and one second fade in seems to work well

not too long, just right

[oblique imp]

btw you get the Frostwind's book in the base mod by talking to a specific NPC in Seyda Neen. This always seemed a bit janky to me. Maybe just add this book to the player's inventory post-chargen on mod activation? It's required for the mod, anyway. Or does changing this cause issues?

[hardy sentinel]

That's already the case

[oblique imp]

btw what mod do you use for that water effect on the ground during rainy weather?

[hardy sentinel]

but you can still talk to the guy if you lose the book

[hardy sentinel]

should be rafael's waterworld on his github

[lucid pebble]

Why not just do what the game normally does when training.

Just show the waiting screen ^

Also you when you pickup or place items they also instantly appear so I don't think it is a big deal that the same happens when placing the grill or eating food.

[civic cosmos]

I am not caught up in any sense, but I have to say from the first few seconds that I really appreciate the work that went into the mwscript menus in the interest of rapid clickability.

Are wandering critters prone to attack "during" the fadeout, as with resting/sleeping?

[hardy sentinel]

no because resting works differently and has its own scripts

the fadeouts will be much shorter than in the video

[civic cosmos]

It is not horribly difficult to edit the LUA to put it where you want, and display only what you want

An optional pop-up message for time elapsed cooking/etc. could be invaluable to non-clock-havers.

[civic cosmos]

@exotic swallow Here are my LUA files, should work for you if you replace the files in scripts/Date. Definitely back up first.

My logic is that I can see the day/date when I rest, and holidays already have a pop-up. Year displayed in the HUD, um, what? 🤷‍♂️

I'm reviewing the video now.

@hardy sentinel Much of this is familiar from Basic Needs, and I think you've said that most of the values from that are unchanged? I was wondering about equipment weights.

I think your icons/gauges could benefit from the vanilla treatment of a space between them.

When boiling water to fill containers, message spam is off the screen too quickly. Combining messages for "You filled $container with water" x5 into "You filled 5 $containers with water" would help.

[civic cosmos]

As a wannabe thru-hiker, I always wanted to have:
* flint and steel ** with tinder and wood gathering ** keeps weight of survival kit down

I think a color change to bright red or blue would be excellent for the temperature gauge when it is at either extreme.

I don't remember where I got this, and the YT video of this is not showing the complete URLs, sorry. But I like how this mod fades in the needs instead of adding another omnipresent and bright part of the UI.

What I mean to say is that your icons are tasty, and I think having them fade in, rather than display a gauge, would be

It might be the video quality (I yt-dlp'd, so 1920x1080) but even using the accessibility magnification tool of my OS, I struggled to read the gauges, especially for temperature. FWIW, I have congenital daltonic (a.k.a. red-green) colorblindness.

Don't make me invoke the Americans with Disabilites Act! J/k, hopeful my feedback can serve at least in part. 🙏

[hardy sentinel]

yes, that would explain it because the bars are in red

[oblique imp]

It wouldn't work here IMO. The needs change all the time even if you are standing still. The status icons are small and non-intrusive and you can hide them with the standard hide UI button for screenshots and such so it should be fine.

[oblique imp]

That's true. It's a bit spammy. Not a big deal, but if combining these messages is possible then it would be nice.

[hardy sentinel]

Currently you can collect fire wood by equipping the axe, as shown in the video. The easiest to implement would be a flint and steel requirement to make a fire. Hitting trees with an axe and gathering wood may be a hard task for OpenMW lua (and may even be impossible atm)

[hardy sentinel]

I'd probably remove the messages. Combining them would be too much work

[oblique imp]

Well, sounds should be enough

[oblique imp]

Btw do you keep a changelog/feature list? 😅

[hardy sentinel]

maybe once I release it

[civic cosmos]

Ah well, I can tweak it for myself if needed.

[hybrid wing]

Very nice work. I was looking for a mod like that, it’s been recommended to me when I asked for a food sruvival mod. I’m looking forward to it. (I hope I wouldn’t need to start a fresh save but I doubt it)

[civic cosmos]

with tinder and wood gathering
My idea here was a bit more , differentiating between tinder and firewood. Gotta keep tinder dry, it's harder to find in the rain, etc.

[hardy sentinel]

Thanks. It'll feature cooking and grilling based of lore friendly recipes with a focus on Affa's recipes. It'll require a new fresh start because that's where the items will be registered with their corresponding values (how much they satiate hunger, thirst and exhaustion). This was already the case for Basic Needs for OpenMW my mod is based on.

[hybrid wing]

I know its death penalty for that kind of question but how close are you to release? I just finished installing Total Overhaul and I’m eager to try it

[hardy sentinel]

I plan to release the first version of this mod in May to participate in the May modathon. I have the most important features covered. This video will be close to the final product, except for the fade-outs (which will be much shorter): #1358542919702937822 message

[tawny bridge]

detaildevil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv0UqIe1Wmg

Linked by @​detaildevil from #Devilish Needs · May 1, 2025, 10:08 PM

[hybrid wing]

Oh wow one month, it’s short but long

[oblique imp]

don't lose hope!

the mod seems mostly finished

[hybrid wing]

I looks dope but I’m more interested in basic needs (literally) + fancy cooking. I must admit when I played Necessities of Morrowind I’ve never experienced any difficulty facing the elements, it was really about making and eating cookies and I kinda liked that. I think I will try Basic needs, it has half of what I’m looking for. But I will definitely look into this because it does have cooking. 😄

[hardy sentinel]

My mod can support food items (as ingredients or potions) from all esps via lua. This great feature is part of Basic Needs for OpenMW, which my mod used as a base.

So, if people create a fantastic and even better cooking mod, I can support it.

[hybrid wing]

Amazing, it’s like IRL cooking. Throw everything in the pot and hope for the best 😍

[hardy sentinel]

worst case scenario, you create a "soup"

hot water + anything = soup

[shy bay]

Mm soup

[shy bay]

Can I make glass soup?

[hardy sentinel]

No, you can't

"0/10 can't even create glass soup" - Gnewna May 29th 2025

[civic cosmos]

Literally unplayable.

[shy bay]

Man, at least I'm forewarned!

[hybrid wing]

Even, like, water bottles? I found a light version of NoM that could be compatible with the overhaul 💖

sounds like magic to me

[hardy sentinel]

my script checks for the consumption of alchemy / ingredient items, if the id is on the list and the player consumes it it'll satiate hunger, thirst or exhaustion (based on the values I give it in the list)

btw, I have filling bottles, flasks in my mod

[hybrid wing]

So if you can't eat glass it's because you make an exception for it, but I can eat troll poop if another mod adds it?

[hardy sentinel]

no, I have a list of items that I support

I can add ids to that list, regardless of the esp they come from

[exotic swallow]

im gonna guess that devilish needs will be compatible with devilish alcohol right 😄

[hardy sentinel]

yes, 100 %

[oblique imp]

would be funny if the author made it incompatible with his own mod 😅

[hardy sentinel]

If you order a meal and a drink repeatedly you'll get wasted in the bar

[exotic swallow]

in ashfall i was tea-cholic, but with devilish needs it looks like im gonna be just straight up alcoholic

[hardy sentinel]

it'll remain external

[oblique imp]

that's what every alcoholic tells you

"I don't need it"

https://tenor.com/view/drinking-pouring-alec-baldwin-thirsty-whiskey-gif-10796811562775287321

[oak ridge]

My 30 kwama eggs are still ready to cook

[exotic swallow]

200 weight worth of kwama eggs, mazte and moon sugar

living the life at its fullest

[oblique imp]

They are not, as you will need a new game

checkmate

[oak ridge]

Oh they carry over. It's a thing with my openmw instalation

[oak ridge]

200?! I have feather for a reason gamer.

[umbral matrix]

I hear in Suran they have these earthly delights, is that also an available recipe?

[limpid yew]

its a hobby, a pastime...or even a tradition for men like jack. dont confuse it with alcoholism

[oblique imp]

Al Gul consumes all

[hardy sentinel]

• I reduced the fade-out times to a minimum and implemented more sounds for actions such as filling bottles

[oak ridge]

is it out?

[oblique imp]

https://tenor.com/view/are-we-there-yet-deadpool-gif-5676800

[hardy sentinel]

No, have some patience. It'll be released somewhere in May. I still need adjust a few things and test it. For example I need to check whether the file paths to OAAB / TD objects are still accurate when I update to the absolute latest of their versions. I also need to update my OpenMW 0.49 version to the absolutele latest version. I'll also need to test whether I have packed up all required files correctly, ideally on an empty install. All of this takes time.

[oak ridge]

my 30 eggs better not go bad

they are large eggs too. for enhanced cooking

[oblique imp]

No rush 🙂 Better to get a good release version than a broken one.

[oak ridge]

true, can you eat a raw kwama egg?

[oblique imp]

Probably, yeah. People eat raw eggs in the real world, after all. Not a fan of that myself, but I know such people.

[oak ridge]

it's probably hella rich ngl those things are huge

[exotic swallow]

think something like this would go along? https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/47356

[hardy sentinel]

the yurt crafting, sure but they also seem to have some interactive stuff going on with their own cooking mod

I'd put the boundary at crafting furniture (although you can craft a bedroll / tent, due to Frostwind)

My main concern are hunger, thirst, exhaustion and temperature

anything beyond that should ideally be handled by a separate mod

[scarlet cosmos]

I can’t wait to try this. I like the sound of only having those basic needs to manage. Games like RDR2 where you also have to clean your self/horse just infuriated me 😅

[hardy sentinel]

Having one mod dealing with hunger, thirst, exhaustion and temperature for OpenMW is already a big deal imo

[scarlet cosmos]

In fact - I think there was a Skyrim needs mod I quickly uninstalled due to cleanliness mechanics and shit like stumbling if you move backwards that couldn’t be disabled. I might be halciuniting though.

[hardy sentinel]

If I feature creep this, I risk including controversial subjective stuff

so I'd rather do those four aspects well and create separate expansions for anything extra

[scarlet cosmos]

Feature creep is welcome in any mod imo… if it’s toggleable.

[hardy sentinel]

backpacks, crafting more stuff -> external

[scarlet cosmos]

I like the separation.

[hardy sentinel]

it also enables people to use other mods to satisfy those aspects

Besides, the permissions of Devilish Needs will be 100 % open under the condition that derived works also publish with open permissions.

[scarlet cosmos]

That’s the best way to do it imo

[hardy sentinel]

So if there are lua wizards who want to take this closer to Ashfall they can

or if people are unhappy with stuff

[scarlet cosmos]

Speaking of other mods - any interest in Devilish Necromancy at some point?

[hardy sentinel]

I still have my side project of Touch of Madness going on

and I also want to play a bit

[scarlet cosmos]

PLAY??!

[hardy sentinel]

it's one of the main reasons I'm creating this mod 😄

I need it for my playthrough

[scarlet cosmos]

Based ngl

[oblique imp]

I think that there is a mod called Practical Necromancy which covers this

[oblique imp]

Very good approach IMO. Mods which become overhauls often annoy players if they are not customisable

[hardy sentinel]

• adding items to the pot makes a little splash sound now

I found out that mw scripts have a line limit of roughly 1070

[umbral matrix]

Totally makes sense. Get the core aspects right, then people can install their own complementary mods that directly or indirectly interact with those.

[scarlet cosmos]

To be honest I (unfairly perhaps) discounted that one due to its relative age. (Versus something newer and lua powered). I'll see to giving it a go at some point

[hardy sentinel]

• I added the option "Drink water" to the cooking pot. That way you can drink immediately from the pot without filling it into containers first

I removed plenty of messageboxes too, no filling bottle messages, no added ingredient messages

I'm considering whether resist fire / resist frost effects should negate their respective temperature

How about a resist fire of 60 % makes you invulnerable to hot temperature?

[keen orbit]

Sounds cool. Breathing new life into old mechanics

[hardy sentinel]

I mean these effect literally reduce fire and frost damage aka temperature effects

so, I feel like I'm obligated to make this influence the temperature too

[keen orbit]

Especially as possible mean to negate need for needs in the lategame

[hardy sentinel]

maybe up this to 80 %

so that Dunmers at least need to have 5 % of resist fire going on

hmm, I don't know. It's somewhat fitting that the Dunmer aren't affected by hot temperatures

[keen orbit]

Is it hot in Morrowind though?

[hardy sentinel]

Only near Red Mountain ( I decided to remove the Ashlands from the hotzone list for now), in TR deserts and Cyrodiil it's hot too, near lava as well)

[oblique imp]

The idea is good, but the number seems arbitrary and a bit boring. I don't think that Dark Elves being totally immune to hot temperatures (and Redguards not btw) and Nords being totally immune to cold temperature no matter what is the right approach. If it was more involved than that, e.g. more equipment- and condition-dependent, then it would be quite cool. I think that Frostwind already has some racial bonuses for cold btw. You also won't die to freezing if you have 100% resistance, so it's already there. Anyway, IMO a simplistic system based purely on resistances would chepen these mechanics.

[oblique imp]

Ashlands requiring more water for travelling due to conditions is right, though. If it's not a hot zone, then maybe add the increased thirst/temperature effect for ash storms and blight storms at least.

[hardy sentinel]

so overall I think Vvardenfell has maritime climate, it's just the active vulcano with the ash storms and lava streams causing nearby areas to burn thus creating ashlands

Cyrodiil, and Hammerfell are more subtropical / tropical

https://www.reddit.com/r/Morrowind/comments/b9pnpo/what_do_you_think_the_temperature_and_climate_in/

people have been discussing this too

[oblique imp]

Vvardenfell is not tropical like Cyrodiil or Valenwood, but Ashlands are desert-like. Warm or hot by day depending on conditions, but cold by night.

House Redoran even likes employing Redguard mercenaries because the conditions in the ashlands are sth that they are well suited for

[hardy sentinel]

https://kottke.org/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,fit=scale-down,width=1200,metadata=none/plus/misc/images/mount-st-helens-02.jpg

This is the Mount Helen aftermath

to me these are the ashlands

they don't become "deserts" in the sense of hot temperature during the day

deserts are a combination of the hadley wind cycles and direct sun exposure

[limpid yew]

why not just check out the temperature ranges within a year of areas where volcanos stiull erupt?

[oblique imp]

they have pretty desert-like conditions and Ashlanders are similar to various nomadic cultures

[limpid yew]

irl, not in-game

[hardy sentinel]

yes, but they actually don't impact surrounding temperatures at all

[limpid yew]

put that into the game, call it a day

[limpid yew]

then neither should it in mod

[hardy sentinel]

😄

[limpid yew]

from my pov atleast

[hardy sentinel]

I think it's fair to make Red Mountain hot

[limpid yew]

red mountain....yes. but ashlands should be at most desert region...where i suppose even dunmer shouldnt suffer heat penalties without additional enchantments

[oblique imp]

Red Mountain doesn't always work like RL volacones btw and the lava isn't exactly like RL lava, either. It can flow almost like water. That's how the foyadas were created.

[limpid yew]

what does it work like then?

[oblique imp]

well there is no documentary 😄

it's just not 1:1 RL

just as there are no Ashlands IRL

no ash storms

no blight storms

etc.

we have sand storms IRL but it's more what Hammerfell's desert has

[hardy sentinel]

In my opinion the temperature shouldn't vary much on Vvardenfell. The ares are just too small for this to be explained by climate

In between regions climate differences make much more sense.

[oblique imp]

Pleny of variation can happen on Vvardenfell. Pretty sure that Sheogorad is colder than Ascadian Isles, for example

Solstheism is not that far away from northern Vvardenfell, either

[limpid yew]

sheo is cooler...but i would chalk it upto it being a relatively small region surrounded by water

[oblique imp]

as for climate, IRL it's affected by many conditions including sea currents and such. In Tamriel there is also magic involved, I guess

frankly we don't know the real size

of the continents

[hardy sentinel]

it's already the case that Sheogorath and Solstheim are colder than the rest of Vvardenfell and I'm fine with that

[oblique imp]

well it makes sense

Solstheim is not even Vvardenfell

[limpid yew]

non-nords should be having trouble going around in solsthiem naked, as should non-dunmer in ashlands/red mountain

[hardy sentinel]

so overall, temperatures are mild on Vvardenfell. Comfortable during the day and mildly cold at night (but not freezing)

[limpid yew]

so where would extreme temperatures actually come into play the most besides red mountain/sols?

[oblique imp]

anyway, as mentioned before, Ashlands being inhospitable feels right and more water needed for travelling there also seems right. Therefore, at least add more thirst for ash storms/blight storms if Ashlands are removed from hot zones

[hardy sentinel]

Skyrim, Solstheim, and hot temperatures in Cyrodill, Hammerfell

[oblique imp]

Hammerfell?

😆

in 10 years, maybe

or 15

[hardy sentinel]

yes, see it's already supported 😄

[limpid yew]

yep, gotta remember tho, todd make redguards extra stupid, so doubt theyll know how to deal with even mild variations in temperature or can they...

[hardy sentinel]

if you are wet and the night is cold, you'll start freezing too

[scarlet cosmos]

cast fire on self to warm?

[hardy sentinel]

yes, that is functional. It dries you and heats you up

[scarlet cosmos]

lmao love it

[oblique imp]

yeah fun stuff

[limpid yew]

how would we know if we're wet? thought the ui icon for temp could only provide info on two conditions, hot/cold?

[lucid pebble]

I think ashlands should be very very dry.

[hardy sentinel]

There is a status effect for it

[oblique imp]

they definitely are, so yeah

[hardy sentinel]

I'm not too keen to create more lua icons

wetness is somewhat of a minor thing anyway

[oblique imp]

raining and water?

[hardy sentinel]

yes, they'll make you wet

which gives you a weakness to shock damage

and increases coldness

[oblique imp]

cool

[limpid yew]

so how long before a dip in the water/going from rain to a shlter will i dry out?

[hardy sentinel]

An hour or two, you can also warm your hands at a fire and dry immedietly

or fire damage will dry you as well

[oblique imp]

all good

[hardy sentinel]

even if you cast it on yourself

like I would

it's just too funny

[limpid yew]

isnt that something you do in daggerfall to regen magica?

after taking atronach that is

[oblique imp]

so... Ashlands need sth to represent their inhospitability. Travelling the Ashlands shouldn't be a cake walk as far as the needs mod is concerned. It's not like moving in the Ascadian Isles. I will die on that hill 😆

[hardy sentinel]

I mean I can show you which values you need to tweak later

[oblique imp]

yeah, let's not get into making submods and such before the mod is even released 😅 ,

I'm talking about the general experience

[hardy sentinel]

Here is my general understanding

[keen orbit]

Will armor affect your temperature?

[hardy sentinel]

yes, this is already implemented via Frostwind

light armor protects better against coldness than heavy armor

hotness is handled differently

[lucid pebble]

I know that ashfall had different temps like tropical and such. Maybe it would be a good idea to checkout what the difference between tropical and say a desert is?

[oblique imp]

which is a bit of meh choice. Fur, leather armour, sure. Glass - eh, no, it wouldn't protect you more against the cold than Nordic armors. They changed that in the Ashfall where armour has varied warmth stats (https://github.com/jhaakma/ashfall/wiki/Temperature-Mechanics).

not sure how feasible implementation would be in OpenMW

[hardy sentinel]

I'm not here to recreate AshFall

[oblique imp]

sure

Frostwind is pretty much Ashfall's predecessor, though 😄

[lucid pebble]

Ik, but I think having a look at how it does things would be a good inspiration tho.

If you want to do something differently that is fine.

[hardy sentinel]

If it wasn't already implemented in Frostwind, I'd have perhaps implemented a different logic. However, since it's already implemented in a script with plenty of fine tuned variables, I'm unlikely to change it.

[oblique imp]

Gameplay-wise: tropical - hot by day, warm by night; desert - hot by day, cold by night. Obviously it may vary with the weather conditions and such, but that should be the gist of it, I think.

[hardy sentinel]

A distinction between hot, warm and hot, cold can be made later on. This is possible to do with my current logic.

It would only apply to Cyrodiil (hot warm) and perhaps Narsis (hot, cold) atm

currently it's hot, warm in hotzones

[oblique imp]

Mournhold is pretty much tropical

there is even a Nord there who can't stand the heat 😂

[hardy sentinel]

yes, references like that are good

I was about to ask you for a source

although it doesn't make much sense to me

why would it be hot there

[oblique imp]

I doubt it's desert-hot btw

for a Nord it probably feels that way

but yeah, it's hot

and warm by night

def not a cold place

they even have insects which sound a bit like cicadas

obv in "real" Tamriel temperatures vary by season, but in-game we don't have that... well, at least I doubt that you will be implementing seasons 😅 . Def not an essential feature

seasons would be dope for Skyrim, but Bethesda ignored this, unfortunately. Modders implemented seasons in Skyrim, though, which is awesome

[hardy sentinel]

Yes, something like that would be groundbreaking for Morrowind but it's not realistic if you can't swap out meshes via code

that's something that'd be really useful to have

[oblique imp]

it's def not an essential feature, though

I mean... we can live without this 😄

it's already great to have the temperature system at all

[hardy sentinel]

yes, I agree. It'd be a different mod

also, I've looked up deserts and it can't be generalized that deserts are cold at night

they can be, especially in the winter but many deserts are hot at day and warm at night

[oblique imp]

seasons would make temperature variations in various places quite high (it's also like that IRL obv as it's not always hot in Egypt etc.). Without them we are operating more in terms of generic temperatures by region, i.e. sort of what various regions represent. Solstheim would probably be all covered in snow in winter, but the devs made the southern parts more green and northern parts more wintry or even icy etc. I think it's ok for gameplay purposes considering what we are working with.

btw IRL people often think of snow when they think of Sweden or Norway, for example, but these places can be green, sunny and warm as well 😄

wondering whether Betheda will have some sort of optional survival mode for TES6. It was eventually added to Skyrim, lol. I guess that fans making same kind of mods for TES games caused this 😆

[hardy sentinel]

I just don't have the faith they know what they're doing anymore.

[oblique imp]

sad but true. I guess that they peaked with Morrowind.

[civic cosmos]

Maybe increased thirst generation without excessive additional heat would be the way.

[lucid pebble]

It even has jungle ambient sounds ingame.

[hardy sentinel]

**Devilish Needs (OpenMW 0.49): **Eat, drink, sleep, and stay dry or suffer the consequences. This is a one-mod survival solution for the OpenMW engine featuring: Temperature regions, lua icons, detailed cooking and grilling based on Affa's recipes, support for OAAB & TR Data and PT lands and the features of Merlord’s Frostwind and jarizleifr’s Basic Need for OpenMW mod. https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/56480 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv0UqIe1Wmg

[scarlet cosmos]

"- Eating raw meat can cause disease (except for Bosmer)" - Should the beast races also be able to eat raw? (I don't cook my cat's food 😅 )

[keen orbit]

i would be impressed if your cat could also cast fireballs

[hardy sentinel]

this is a fair point of consideration, maybe something to consider for the next update

[granite island]

Congrats on the release @hardy sentinel !

[oblique imp]

wow, I thought that we would have to wait longer! Congratulations!

[silver stag]

This is great. Although I've to part with AH Toxicity module, so I don't get killed by drinking water. 😆

[hardy sentinel]

😄

So I assume everything works as intended for now

[silver stag]

Had a quick test rundown and everything seemed to work.

[oblique imp]

lol, did it actually happen?

[hardy sentinel]

There is a dev chest undereath Arielle with food ing for testing (underneath the cell interior so invisible for anyone)

[silver stag]

I just noticed that it counts it as potion, somebody reported being dead by bandages in AH thread. That mod needs blacklisting with all these new things.

[hardy sentinel]

yes, anything that's consumed in Devilish Needs is a potion. That way I avoid the "ingred" had no effect messages and apply effects to the player

[keen orbit]

Death is disabled by default, actually

[zinc tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/adam-warlock-gotg3-guardians-of-the-galaxy-meme-flying-gif-16191848131003490451

[hardy sentinel]

yes, it should say "Default no"

but it's right that I want it off by default

[keen orbit]

And don't you want to rename the mod in the "scripts" tab to "Devilish Needs"? Leaving it as "Basic Needs" is a bit confusing as a user

[hardy sentinel]

yes, next version with other trivial changes

[keen orbit]

Is this a normal behavior?

[civic cosmos]

This was an issue with Basic Needs also. I just headcanoned with the fact that too much water at once can make one hyponatremic IRL, and spaced out my water consumption.

[oblique imp]

Are the dishes treated as 1 "potion" only? And food and drink via dialogue? If yes, then the mod should be usable with Alchemical Hustle

AH is part of the common modlists btw so it's a popular mod (and a very good one for balance)

It's only a problem if 2 or more potions are consumed quickly

[hardy sentinel]

usually it does a "reloadlua" and applies the new orientation of the lua icons

does it still rotate the lua icons?

[keen orbit]

Yeah, you just need to close settings menu

I was wondenring about settings disappearing

There's also pictures missing in the guide

wow that is creative :>

[hardy sentinel]

The only way to get this guide is to talk to the Nord in Arielle's Tradehouse. I'm considering to remove it completely

afterall, not everything in there is accurate anymore or necessary

it's a leftover from Frostwind so to say

[keen orbit]

Ahhhhh

But I got it at character creation :)

[hardy sentinel]

isn't that the crafting book?

[keen orbit]

yup

[hardy sentinel]

when you equip it you should only be presented with options of crafting

ah, I see

putting it on the ground makes it a normal book

i don't have missing textures though, at least not in pink

[keen orbit]

Do these textures come from Textures folder? Or they use existing item icons?

since my Textures folder is suspiciously empty
that's all the files i have there

[hardy sentinel]

I'll check it. It's not urgent in my opinion. I'll probably rewrite the book too in the next update.

As long as version 1.0 is functional, I can work on a version 1.1 with the minor adjustments

[oblique imp]

Is that still accurate or is standing near a fire enough? @hardy sentinel

[hardy sentinel]

both are true

warming your hands will warm and dry you

standing near a fire will warm you too

[oblique imp]

So... is there a difference at all? Is it faster with "ready magic" button?

[hardy sentinel]

not really, both do roughly the same

[rare kindle]

Great job, really impressive. Slight issue, I'm running the expanded Vanilla momw pack and activating the book doesn't do anything other than open the book

[hardy sentinel]

if you are in the inventory, drag and drop it on your character please

That should work

[rare kindle]

It did not. Is strange because it has the correct script attached. I thought it might be interesting weirdly with the audiobook mod but removing that didn't fix the issue

[hardy sentinel]

That's strange. I have tried this mod an fresh install and the crafting menu works as intended. Maybe there is a mod conflict

You are certain you dragged the book like this?

[rare kindle]

Mmhmm

It opens it each time

[hardy sentinel]

It also works for me if I put it on a quickslot

but I don't know why it wouldn't work for you

[keen orbit]

Book is supposed to open the menu instead of book?

[hardy sentinel]

yes

[keen orbit]

Lol

Maybe it's because of trav's enhanced books?

[hardy sentinel]

If that's really a mod conflict, I might make the book a hammer

but I'm sure it works on a clean install

[hardy sentinel]

only if activated in the inventory

if activated on the ground then it opens as a book

[keen orbit]

None of these opened the menu for me
Though I was doing it in the interior cell. Can it be the case?

[hardy sentinel]

strange

[keen orbit]

Okay, Expanded Vanilla doesn't seem to have it in the list

There doesn't seem to be any errors or warnings in the logs too

[hardy sentinel]

player->equip a_crafting_guide

even this works for me

[keen orbit]

heh)

[hardy sentinel]

yes, seems like that could be the reason

Maybe i should make the crafting menu appear when equipping a hammer

[keen orbit]

Nah, even without Books Enhanced it opens a book

[hardy sentinel]

seems like something to address for Version 1.1

I suspect a mod conflict

because it works on my install

[keen orbit]

By the way, a thing I noticed is that with default settings needs reach mild level quite fast. I dont really mind it yet, but having slightly lowered attributes (even at mild level) most of the time is kinda irritating

Though it may be only me problem

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hardy sentinel]

You can adjust the thirst and hunger rates in the script menu

although I'm quite happy with the default values

but the book activation irritates me

I'll probably just put it on a hammer and call it a day

[ebon finch]

quick question, is this mod compatible with the current modlists (the ones that expand features) ... asking because i think they all have better blight & the blight weather pack in them.

[hardy sentinel]

I think so

[hardy sentinel]

the blight mods shouldn't cause issues with my mod, it's quite independent in that regard

todo for update version 1.1: repackage the mod in 7zip for linux people, change Bascic Needs Name in script menu, rewrite the "default" yes, to "default" no in the script menu for dying of thirst and hunger. Maybe put the crafting script on a hammer instead of a book due to some people claiming it doesn't activate for them.

[merry pilot]

can we reposition these icons?

[keen orbit]

yes

it's in the script configs

[ebon finch]

hmm i can't access a few menus ... the crafting book (used the commands to get the items), the fireplace as well as the bed

in case of bed & fireplace they just get picked up and the book opens like any other but doesn't open the menu afterwards

funnily enough the menu for the tent works

guess that one is slightly different

oh and if i might make a suggestion ... if possible tooltips (similar to the ones used for other spell effects) for the status icons would be awesome

[hardy sentinel]

Did you use a new game? I'm very surprised that the fireplace and bed script don't work for you

I've heard people having trouble with the book for some odd reason, and I'll probably just put it on a hammer

[ebon finch]

yeah, might be a mod conflcit idk. i am using a reduced version of vanilla expanded

[hardy sentinel]

also there may be useful information if you open the f10 log

[ebon finch]

ok so moving the mods script&esp to the bottom of the load order fixed it (at least worked with the test char quickstart) ... not sure what mod was originally causing a conflict though. i am running pretty much a reduced version of vanilla-expanded in case that helps

alright i think i found the mod in question: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/43213
sucks but probably the easiest one to replace myself

whenever this one is below your mod the menus get screwed ... probably because it tries to access some stuff from basic needs?

[hardy sentinel]

from Frostwind probably

yes, that must have been it

it uses Frostwind ids and so on

[oblique imp]

ah, now I understand why some people talk about incompatibilities

it's part of the common modlists

that mod

I disabled it myself, but by default it's there

[hardy sentinel]

I'm considering to rename the Frostwind ids to avoid this

[hardy sentinel]

adventurer's backpack might be the reason for your issues

[keen orbit]

That might be the case - I have it installed

[hardy sentinel]

make sure it loads after devilish needs

I'll try to find out what exactly is causing this. I assume same ids / script names from Frostwind

and then idiotproof it so it works anyway regardless of load order

[ebon finch]

i mostly used the mod for the feather effect but it would be awesome if it were compatible ... especially if you plan to add more items to your mods (as a way to access them all in one place)

[merry pilot]

uh sorry, where is that? DN doesnt show up under options -scripts etc

[keen orbit]

the bottom two fields in Scripts tab, iirc

[merry pilot]

hm, do i need to uninstall basic needs?

[keen orbit]

no

fun thing is
69 x offset is perfect for not having a minimap

[merry pilot]

ah my bad, so it does support it, its not adding its own water and food

[keen orbit]

oh wait, i misread it
devilish needs is standalone

it does not need basic needs

you probably shouldnt use them at the same time

[merry pilot]

oh

[keen orbit]

to be more specific, devilish needs is buit "on top" of basic needs

[merry pilot]

So devilish doesnt have such menu?

[keen orbit]

thats the screenshot of devilish. Devil just didn't rename the menu in 1.0 release

basic doesnt even have icons (main reason why i didnt use it in the first place)

[merry pilot]

Oh lol right

[ebon finch]

did you activate both the esp and the omwscript file?

[merry pilot]

For me it works, eating sleeping etc

Still deciding if i should abandon old character/game over this

[candid echo]

As I understand different races are affected differently by hunger and thirst, does the races added by tamriel data deal differently with hunger, thirst etc?

[hardy sentinel]

if eating and drinking refills your lua icons than it's fine

although that is highly unlikely

[merry pilot]

I get debuffs thirsty sleepy etc and those go away if i eat sleep etc

Not sure if i ever used basic needs so not sure how exactly this works

[hardy sentinel]

it's weird that you are using Devilish Needs and Basic Needs together. If it works, count yourself lucky

Devilish needs was built on modfying Basic Needs and Frostwind

so it should replace it, not go alongside it

but hey if it works somehow, good for you

[merry pilot]

Ive had no idea i even installed BN 🤣

And then i had no idea if compayible or prerequisite for DN

[hardy sentinel]

I thought that was obvious, but I guess I need to say that on the modpage

[merry pilot]

I think it even says it offers support for basic needs

[hardy sentinel]

alright, I figured this one out

[merry pilot]

Oh so menu coming

Yay

[hardy sentinel]

the menu is already there!

it's just the old name of "Basic Needs for OpenMW"

[hardy sentinel]

#1358542919702937822 message

[tawny bridge]

sosnoviybor

thats the screenshot of devilish. Devil just didn't rename the menu in 1.0 release

Linked by @​detaildevil from #Devilish Needs · May 5, 2025, 5:28 PM

[merry pilot]

Nvm i need to get to pc and see what i have done, still confused

[hardy sentinel]

**Update Version 1.1: **Repackaged the mod in 7zip for linux people, change script menu name from "Bascic Needs" to "Devilish Needs", rewrite the "default" yes, to "default" no in the script menu for dying of thirst and hunger. You also get a crafting hammer now instead of the crafting book (some people had issues with the book). Book is still available in Arielle's Tradehouse if you prefer it. https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/56480?tab=posts

an update is not necessary should you still run 1.0

1.0 runs fine

[hardy sentinel]

Everything you noticed should be fixed now, including the pink textures in the book

[exotic swallow]

is there a way to fill containers with water outside of boiling them? ie buying them from inns and such?

[hardy sentinel]

No, and I'm unlikely to implement it, except wells perhaps. Ideally I'd want to reuse the same script that plays when you are filling the bottles at the campfire as it's complicated as is. That means I can only fill up all containers with water when it's activated.

Besides, you can buy all kinds of alcoholic beverages from inns, which I deem quite immersive anyway. The water is probably worse than the drinks.

[exotic swallow]

yeah that's fair

although i am using your devilish drinks mod i find the blur effect when tipsy a bit annoying tbh, can i just delete that?

[slate saddle]

I remember necessities of Morrowind having the well functionality

[hardy sentinel]

set these factors to 0

drunkspell remains 1

but the factors below that

or just take out the entire block I guess

or comment it out

[exotic swallow]

guess i'll only set drunk_1 to 0, its only annoying because it blurs the screen every time i drink, wouldnt mind the effect when the character is very drunk

yup that worked, thanks 🙂

[woven tartan]

Endorsed ❤️

I mean the mod lol

misclicked >_>

[ebon finch]

small bug i found: using a shrine (probably all restore attribute spells) allows to purge the effects of exhaustion and such. the spell effect remains, just the attribute deduction gets cleared. that said i don't think it can be abused (much) since fulfilling the needs after purging the debuff doesn't raise the attributes beyond their original values.

[civic cosmos]

This bug also affects https://discord.com/channels/260439894298460160/1343504949589442641 , for what it is worth. Attribute disadvantages can be "cured".

[oblique imp]

I guess that it resets when the needs bar changes, though. Needs are dynamic, so "healing" yourself temporarily isn't that big of a deal. It's even kind of interesting.

I'm wondering whether Resist Magicka protects you from the bad effects, though. That would be worse as it obviously shouldn't do that. It would also make Bretons somehow 50% more resistant by default and that also wouldn't make sense 😅

[keen orbit]

When youre adding active spells (effects with sources) to the player, you have multiple flags to ignore resists, reflect and something else

[zinc tendon]

absolute banger! ive been enjoying my time with this, had to suicide though because modlist still feeling inadequate(what a surprise)

cant wait to starvation again

[ebon finch]

the new hammer item opens the menu fine, but well it is a weapon and that means it gets cycled via the hotkey for switching wepaons. not a big deal but can be a nuisance.
would it be possible to instead just use the menu in the same fashion as all the other items?
as in have a "survival pack" that you drop and then activate to get the choices?
honestly imo even the axe could simply be part of a menu action ... or is there a planed feature regarding its actuall use (as in to swing at trees or something)

[hardy sentinel]

you can still use the book option by asking the Nord in Arielle's tradehouse

[ebon finch]

ah ok

[hardy sentinel]

I just used the hammer because some people had trouble with the book

[shy bay]

If I want to add this in to the One Day Morrowind Modernisation list, would it be best to tell it to load after the Gameplay section? So after Friendly Autosave? (Well, and Adventurer's Backpack if I end up using that)

[hardy sentinel]

it should play well with most mods but there is real conflict potential with Adventurer's Backpack. Best try would be to load Devilish Needs after that one

[shy bay]

Ah, good to know, I saw "load after A'sBP" mentioned on the mod page but if it's actively risky I'll probably not bother with adding that in

[hardy sentinel]

I guess it should work, but I haven't tried it yet. I just know Danae used Frostwind ids and I also include Frostwind so funkiness could happen

[shy bay]

Ah, valid. I'll probably leave it then

My carry weight seems very high anyway, I just like having one for the visuals

[hardy sentinel]

Devilish Carry Weight overhaul also includes functional backpacks

it's a bit harsh on carry weight though and may be a bit too exotic for the mainstream

[shy bay]

My current CW is nearly 400 which seems very silly so I might look into that (I mean I guess I should find out if something has gone horribly wrong first...)

[oblique imp]

CW is STR x 5 in Vanilla if no other effects are involved. If it's different for you, then you have a mod which changes this

[shy bay]

I assume I do, I need to look closer at the list I installed to see if it has anything that would be supposed to change it. I haven't added anything that should affect carry weight

Oh, yeah, that'll be it: Fatigue and Speed and Carryweight Rebalance!

Aha, there's a version without the CW changes, and one with a more moderate increase, cool, I'll grab one of those then. I think Devilish carry weight might be a tiny bit more hardcore than I'm after, though I do like the general idea

[surreal trellis]

I've made a patch the other day in momw patches that includes a patched esp for the mod that removes the choice menu with the frost wind option. Maybe if it's helpful in this case you could mention it. People would equip the backpack and then message us about the backpack mod confused so we kinda dealt with this already. Possibly the patch could be further modified so you don't have to change the entire mod if this isn't enough but I think it is.

The mod has open permissions as well so if you want to bundle it you could do that too.

[shy bay]

Is that something I could download as a ODMM user?

[surreal trellis]

The patch will go in any lists that have adventures backpack. In this case you'll need to customize the original mod and the patch as well.

There's a fire retexture for the backpack in my repo by shadow mimicry as well.

[shy bay]

Yeah, I don't think ODMM has either of these

[surreal trellis]

I would recommend it, it's a fun mod.

[shy bay]

Can I just download the patch thingy by looking for it on the TO page?

[surreal trellis]

New momw patches should have it in there for you. 🙂

[hardy sentinel]

Could you perhaps link me the patch?

I'm also curious what you and the others think about Devilish Needs

[surreal trellis]

I haven't quite had the opportunity to play it, but it's on my radar for sure. Personally, I think it's really hype.. when people mention MWSE they always mention ashfall so there's clearly a high demand for something similar. The stuff I've seen you share looked really cool so far.

We've been potentially having issues with lua related stutter so code preformance is potentially a concern of ours but I know we've added several of your recent mods in our future wip list.

https://modding-openmw.gitlab.io/momw-patches/ number 63. You can just grab the json if you just want the individual file and use tes3conv. https://gitlab.com/modding-openmw/momw-patches/-/tree/master/63 Adventurer's Backpack No Choice Patch?ref_type=heads

[hardy sentinel]

I think I'll just put it under my optional files

I don't think lua stuttering will be an issue in Devish Needs. That may be more of an issue for the Skooma and Alcohol mod.

[hardy sentinel]

I put the patch under optional files

[woeful stump]

Not sure if this is intended behavior or just a conflict of mods but I've somehow gotten a permanent "Fill Water Bottles" effect which is very convenient but takes away pretty much any reason to use the camping mechanic lol

[keen orbit]

Are all the food recepies available to the player from the start or do you need to complete specific quests to unlock them?

I just didnt really engage with cooking mechanic since i didnt feel like clicking all the options to check what im missing. Maybe creating some kind of ingame recipe book would be a good idea?

[hardy sentinel]

like collecting the recipes in Affresh? You can already do that. All recipes are already there though, you just need to know which ingredients need to be combined for a specific meal

[hardy sentinel]

interesting, but haven't been able to replicate this

player->removespell "detd_fillwaterbottles"

player->removespell "detd_fillwaterbottlesfail"

maybe these commands can fix your issue, although I have no idea how you managed to get into this situation

maybe the log F10 has some info too

[keen orbit]

Tbh, i didnt find any recipes while playing with affresh in a few characters (casually, not knowing where to look for its quests). Maybe i didnt pay enough attention...

Oh, and another thing i might suggest - positive buffs for keeping the hunger and thirst at minimum. Something like "well rested" buff. Basically, to make the mod not only take something from you, but also to reward players for engaging with it

Changing the scale from 0/1000 to, lets say, -500/1000, where negative numbers grant you some sort of "well fed" buff, will also solve my personal gripe with getting slight but really frequent attribute loss. Effectively it will prolong your "normal" power level and not actively punish you for not actively consuming something

Maybe slight (like 1pt) health/magicka/fatigue regen for example

[hardy sentinel]

like the effects when you eat a specific meal

they already exist

a slight restore health / magicka / fatigue effect is too overpowered

here is an example for Kagouti steaks

Also, in a way when you eat and drink and sleep you essentially reset to "normal" in my opinion

[keen orbit]

Okay, good to know

[ebon finch]

i think the cooking menu desperately needs some filters ... no point in seeing recipes/ingredient category options for stuff that isn't currently in the inventory.
and a set of basic one ingredient recipes would be neat too.
doesn't need to be just one piece though. something like 3x mudcrab meat to make a portion of cooked/roasted mucrab.

no need for a buff or anything even (maybe a slight heal&temperature reset?), it would mostly be a way to ease into the cooking mechanic and prevent frustrating sitations when you build the fire and everything, just to realise you can't cook anything.

[silver stag]

I've had the same problem, those commands removed them. Not sure how they got there either, but I'll keep looking if that happens again.

[hardy sentinel]

the mwscript of the campfire with menu is already at 1000 lines, which seems to be the limit anyway

also, filters don't work like that for menus. You'd need an if statement for every ingredient for every menu option, so no definitely not in mwscript.

[hardy sentinel]

With three ingredients you can always cook a basic soup

[surreal trellis]

Pretty sure opencs doesn't have the limit for scripts. May be an option for you. The linter is nice too. Unsure if that effects the other engine or if this mod is for both engines.

[hardy sentinel]

That's good to know. I could perhaps redistribute the script into more specialized scripts handling different things

definitely something I'd consider to add more TR recipes

e.g. the long menu script doesn't need to be attached to the campfire but could just be a global script

[exotic swallow]

im having a lot of fun ignoring the idea of drinking water and instead entirely relying on alcohol to quench my thirst

stale bread & mazte

this has to be lore accurate neravarine diet

[civic cosmos]

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Ezv5BN6vEo0

Reckon this will work with https://discord.com/channels/260439894298460160/1373140636080934973 ?

[hardy sentinel]

I'm considering to change this in the future, but I'm not in a rush

I liked the suggestion that you could fill up your water at taverns too, maybe for 5 drakes?

I also consider to change the "food and drink" option from an alcoholic beverge to just water. If you want alcohol, you can buy it individually from the publican.

These changes aren't too difficult to implement, and thus are more likely to be implemented.

[hardy sentinel]

Thanks for making me aware. I'll see how that mod turns out and probably try to make it compatible (if possible).

Since the permissions seem to be open, I could look at using these kegs to fill up my water bottles

In the future. I'd like to swap out the current tent model for the much better model from Ashfall's tent too

[slate saddle]

Without look at anything I wondered if the same idea could be used for wells to make wells able to refill bottles

[hardy sentinel]

Yes, I've thought about this. Wells are "statics" in the base game. I'm not sure whether I can distance check with just a static and the player. Or whether I can make these statics activators

It's just the technical stuff that's not clear to me

[civic cosmos]

Cool to hear this. Great option for RPing cityfolk afraid of slaughterfish and unable to make a fire.

[hardy sentinel]

Ideally I'd want the player to get permission from the publican first, for 5 drakes. Filling up liters of water for free seems too hospitable

[civic cosmos]

Learn to make potable water, or pay for it. Totally fair. Totally IRL accurate.

Ideally, the keg would run dry soon after the publican dies, but that sounds hairball to implement.

Prolly belongs with the other mod.

[limpid yew]

Would absolutely love this change

[oblique imp]

This should happen. Would be a great change 🙂

[oblique imp]

this is the way. We can already get "free" water from rivers and ponds and boil it. Water shouldn't be free in the inns.

[hardy sentinel]

I'm currently looking at how to use the kegstands, which will probably work quite differently from "usable kegstands lua" to be honest

the idea is to replace the statics with activators via lua

same could be done with wells in theory

[hardy sentinel]

basically I liked at how "usable kegstand lua" replaces the static kegstands, and place an activator kegstand there, which can run my mwscript

which means I should be able to implement filling up bottles at kegstands

so my current idea is that if the player is in a kegstand cell, it will set a global to 1

if the global is 1, publicans will have an option to offer you to fill up your bottles with water for 5 drakes

[hardy sentinel]

success

Will try to replicate this idea for wells too

[silver stag]

The permanent fill water bottles/ fail to fill water bottles happened again. I tested it a little and I think it happens, if I remove the tripod before the fill water bottles spell is out.

[hardy sentinel]

I remove these spells everytime you change cells now. So that if that happens it'll be fixed every time you change the cell

and when you are filling up your bottles you'll probably remain in a cell

[silver stag]

Yeah that's probably enough to fix it.

[next kayak]

just wanted to stop by and say thaaaanks have been using both mods and I'm so glad someone picked it up. And finally have gotten again to setup a list in a while - Great work ❤️

[hardy sentinel]

**Version 1.2 **is out. 1.2 enables you to fill up your bottles and flasks at kegstands in taverns after asking the publican. I also replaced the tent mesh with the one from Ashfall. The "food and drink" option is now non-alcoholic. https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/56480?tab=files

I'm not sure if "just updating" will work. A "new game " is the safer option

[hardy sentinel]

For wells an invisible activator may be more elegant to implement. That way if you sneak near a well you get presented with a fill bottle option

[hardy sentinel]

todo: implement wells, and improve the detection when a publican has a kegstand (the current way it seems to work even when the publican doesn't have a kegstand, which I'll fix), maybe look into a suggestion of how to avoid the "new game" requirement

[hardy sentinel]

So if the keg is is in the cell but out of reach (like behind a locked door), you can also ask the publican to fill up your flasks and bottles for you

it's better than standing in front of a locked door with the keg behind it

Filling up at wells also fills up your cooking pot. This may be useful for regions without water

[civic cosmos]

Ald'Ruhn, we're looking at you 👀

[hardy sentinel]

Ald'Ruhn doesn't even have a well. How do poeple survive there?

[civic cosmos]

Pure guar milk, I guess

Never have seen one being milked, though... 🤔

[next kayak]

Pure faith

I think some mod adds a quest that has you investigating it where the water comes from it's on TO

[civic cosmos]

That rings a bell

[next kayak]

For the new game part - If I recall correctly it's the consumable data setup that is tied to the new game event in basic needs. I bet you can handle that with some var put to the storage that the mod is initialized. I think johnnyhostile does something like this for one of his mods, where the mod checks if the mod has already done its init stuff or if updated and reinitializes itself.

I might have some time to dig that up tomorrow

[hardy sentinel]

this might work

Essentially it reassigns the values of the items every time you load the character instead of just the game start

I wonder whether Basic Needs for OpenMW has a specific reasons why it only uses the "New game" approach

[next kayak]

I'm not sure about the createRecord stuff and if it might have consequences to do this on every load.

Maybe you'll have to check for the record first before adding it. So it doesn't create duplicates

[normal gulch]

My only fear when it comes to using mods like these is I know I'll eventually go do some kind of large dungeon mod where there will be no source of food, I'll run out of what I do have, and wound up soft-locking myself because there's no time left before I starve to death

[granite island]

Spec into conjuration and summon a Daedric Sandwich

[normal gulch]

Impossible, it'll just return to Oblivion before I can turn it into poo

[oblique imp]

You can always find a way to overcome an obstacle in Morrowind. Mark and Recall, Almsivi Intervention, something...

[merry pilot]

very sorry @hardy sentinel its about another mod but will you ever add your devilish guars to old ebonheart stable?

[violet crest]

Hello all. New to the scene and have questions about the Basic Needs mod. Can I ask questions about said mod here?

[hardy sentinel]

I think one guar merchant is fine for the moment. I'm currently more invested in Devilish Needs and other projects

[hardy sentinel]

I know how Basic Needs works, so why not

[violet crest]

Thanks in advance.

So far I've been somewhat successful at expanding on the onInputAction in Player.lua by combining nearby.castRay and nearby.items with onframe to detect water without having to swim .

Now wondering if possible to check for player footstep sound to detect water as well.

[hardy sentinel]

just use mwscript and check (GetInterior == 0) and (player->Getpos Z < 0 )

or just the lua equivalent of that

[violet crest]

Ahh, so if the player is below Z just assume water?

What about interior?

[hardy sentinel]

oh, you mean water in interior

then you can't assume it

[violet crest]

I currently check item ids for "ripple" at a decent range and assume water for Interior cave. Only works if lights are around.

[hardy sentinel]

this may be done more elegantly with lua, although I'm not sure how for the time being

maybe a sound check, maybe some sort of swimming breathing check

[violet crest]

My initial inquiry was footsteps. I see "splsh.wav" is used for that.

Wondering if I can capture when that occures.

in lua

[hardy sentinel]

https://discord.com/channels/260439894298460160/854806553310920714

maybe they know

[hardy sentinel]

alright, I can implement filling up the boiling pot with water in interiors too

instead of a z check, I check for the player making a water sound now

next update => improved kegstand detection, publicans can fill bottles for you (if the kegstand is locked away for example)

=> filling cooking pot in interiors

maybe wells

[oblique imp]

sounds good

sounds like a natural evolution

[hardy sentinel]

some stuff I still need to figure out: stopping needs if werewolf / vampire, travelling & prison reset of needs (or at least not dying), avoiding new game requirement, supporting specific TR / PT publicans that use the tr / pt publican class without making my mod dependent on them.

[slate saddle]

Been playing it a little and the quality is so good of like how it integrates and feels. The cooking was beautiful

With keg stands, it’d be great to have them usable without publican. Like in your house, if there are kegs, being able to use it directly or it’s in some unowned capacity or you’re stealing it

I mean like keg stands you own basically so you can self serve. Or are just there in a dungeon

[hardy sentinel]

maybe, I could perhaps implement stealing from Kegs. My main concern is that "GetDetected" might also trigger when you have a companion

so your companion would snitch on you

it's probably why "usable kegs" mod makes the kegs items, to give them ownership

[slate saddle]

🤔 I am not sure if that’s an issue with normal stealing. I’m only now trying a thief character lol

[hardy sentinel]

I do prefer activators though

[hardy sentinel]

normal stealing is about items, making your own crime stuff would be something like "GetDectected == 1" => Bounty

it's just that it'll be more hacky

and people will probably notice

[slate saddle]

Ahhhh

[oblique imp]

Wait, I thought that Basic Needs covers fast travel

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/53130?tab=posts

[hardy sentinel]

I'm not sure but some people told me they died while travelling, so I guess I need to look at it

[oblique imp]

Sticked post

Check it out

[hardy sentinel]

It should be in Devilish Needs then

[oblique imp]

Seems like author covered this

[hybrid wing]

Congrats for the mod

[fringe socket]

I'm using the mod with Total Overhaul so this very well might be my problem but: When I sleep, the rested popup says I slept for 50% of time longer than I actually did. For example when I sleep for 8 hours, the popup says 12. Any idea what's going on there? 🤔

[keen orbit]

Thats probably an intended feature

At least, it seems so

[civic cosmos]

I have the same with just Basic Needs. I think it has to do with dynamic timescale, but haven't dug into it.

[hardy sentinel]

I may just disable that message pop up

Wells are now functional

local wellIds = {
["ex_nord_well_01"] = true,
["AB_Ex_HlaWell01"] = true,
["ex_nord_well_01a"] = true,
["furn_well00"] = true,
["T_Com_Set_Well_02"] = true,
["T_Com_Set_WellDG_01"] = true,
["T_Bre_SetOstR_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_De_SetInd_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_De_SetHla_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_De_SetRed_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_De_SetMH_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_Imp_LegionCyr_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_Imp_LegionMw_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_Imp_LegionSky_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_Imp_SetGCPoor_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_Imp_SetKva_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_Imp_SetNord_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_Imp_SetSky_X_Well_02"] = true,
["T_Nor_Set_Well_03"] = true,
["T_Nor_Set_Well_01"] = true,
["T_Nor_Set_Well_02"] = true,
["T_Nor_Set_Well_04"] = true,
["T_Nor_Set_Well_05"] = true,
["T_Nor_SetSkaal_Well_01"] = true,
["T_Imp_SetSky_X_Well_01"] = true,
["T_Imp_SetKva_X_Well_02"] = true,
["T_Imp_SetSky_X_Well_03"] = true,
}
-- Determine if

supported ids for now

[civic cosmos]

Or just omit the "hours slept" portion

[hardy sentinel]

• you can fill up your bottles & cooking pot at the well now

• publicans offer to fill up your flasks for you (useful if the kegstand is behind a locked door)

• cooking pots can be filled up in interior waters too

I looked at this and the problem is that over time the memory allocated to data.global increases and increases with every load

so that can't be done (well, it can be done once I guess if you absolutely have to do this mid-playthrough)

I assume it's because it creates duplicates of records

Something that could perhaps be done is to have a "Reset me once" button in the menu and it'll do this exactly once

once is fine

but it can't be done every load

hmm, actually. The reason why people can't install this midplaythrough is because "onNewGame" won't be triggered

so maybe the initial setup should be done via load and then only once

[hardy sentinel]

I tried something like this but it somehow also creates a memory leak of 64 Mb

in the console it patches only once though

in short, doing it once on a new game works better

[hardy sentinel]

Version 1.3 is out

• you can fill up your bottles & cooking pot at the well now

• publicans offer to fill up your flasks for you (useful if the kegstand is behind a locked door). For this just click the topic again, after paying

• cooking pots can be filled up in interior waters too

[violet crest]

May I ask why the original player fill bottle mechanics was removed? Apologies if already answered somewhere.

[hardy sentinel]

because I think that bottling up uncooked river water is a bad idea

filling up your bottles and flasks with cooked water, water from taverns & wells makes much more sense

[prime bramble]

yesss letting publicans fill your bottles is SUCH a quality of life feature, no longer will i have to trek out into the wilderness and set up a campfire just to have a glass of water

[ebon finch]

does the 1.3 update require a new game?

[hardy sentinel]

probably yes

[violet crest]

Fair enough.

I will simply patch it in as I go, will try to add chance of disease/sickness, and if possible, tie it into the cook mechanics to purify them.

This should be fun.

Honestly not a fan of the cooking pot dependency but I do see your point.

[hardy sentinel]

Alternatively you can fill them at kegstands and wells

[hardy sentinel]

"I will simply patch it in as I go" 😄 . I don't know you but nothing about this is simple.

[hardy sentinel]

some Bcom wells will need to be added in the next update

"bw_ex_hlaalu_well"

"Izi_hlaalu_well"

"RM_Well"

"RP_WW_Izi_hlaalu_well"

I think I need to check on the well functionality in a couple of days. I forgot a bunch of bcom and tr records and I might need to check the disable setdelete conditions for the activators

[violet crest]

True.

[violet crest]

Here is what I have so far:

Separate script basic_fill.lua

Detects water "ankle deep" via sound, no need to swim, no wet penalty.

Hotkeys restricted to Hold Crouch + Tap Activate to avoid interfering with existing Actions

Doesn't appear to break anything, still testing.

Devilish Needs.omwscripts

PLAYER: scripts/BasicNeeds/basic_fill.lua

basic_fill.lua

local types             = require('openmw.types')
local core              = require("openmw.core")
local input             = require("openmw.input")
local self              = require("openmw.self")
local ui                = require("openmw.ui")
local Actor             = types.Actor
local ACTION            = require("openmw.input").ACTION
-- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Initialization
-- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
local PLAYER_NEAR_WATER = false
local function isPlayerCrouchingNearWater()
    return input.getBooleanActionValue('Sneak') and PLAYER_NEAR_WATER -- Returns true if sneak key is held
end
local function BasicFill(eventData)
    if core.isWorldPaused() then return end
    -- Using Hold Sneak + Activate as hotkey combination
    if (eventData.thirst and eventData.action == ACTION.Activate and isPlayerCrouchingNearWater()) then
        core.sendGlobalEvent("PlayerFillContainer", { player = self })
    end
end
-- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Engine/event handlers
-- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
local function onFrame()
    local footwaterleft = core.sound.isSoundPlaying("footwaterleft", self.object);
    local footwaterright = core.sound.isSoundPlaying("footwaterright", self.object);
    local waistdeep = self.cell.isExterior and self.position.z < 10
    local swimming = Actor.isSwimming(self)
    PLAYER_NEAR_WATER = footwaterleft or footwaterright or waistdeep or swimming
    --  if PLAYER_NEAR_WATER then
    --      ui.showMessage("Water is available")
    --  end
end

return {
    engineHandlers = {
        onFrame = onFrame,
    },
    eventHandlers = {
        BasicFill = BasicFill,
    },
}

player.lua

--------------
local function onInputAction(action)
   if core.isWorldPaused() then return end
   if state.exhaustion:isEnabled() and action == ACTION.Activate then
      state:setSleepingInBed(bed.tryFindBed(self))
   end
   -- restores basic needs fill container when standing or swimming in water.
   -- Hold Crouch + Tap Activate
   self:sendEvent("BasicFill", {
      action=action,
      thirst=state.thirst:isEnabled()
   })
end
--------------

[dense nymph]

player sitting in a deserted tomb:

• ... splash? ... sploosh? spleesh?! Ah, oh nice!

[hardy sentinel]

I think I know why some TR wells weren't working. I had not parsed them to lowercase in the idlist

Just need to think about edge cases now such as two wells in the same cell

[hardy sentinel]

I think I found a satisfactory solution

[hardy sentinel]

update coming to fix the wells pretty much everywhere

bcom, tr, cyrodiil

[keen orbit]

shotn too?

[hardy sentinel]

haven't checked yet, I guess they are already supported

I'm currently running around checking the well like a maniac

[keen orbit]

This guy thinks hes an argonian

[hardy sentinel]

seems fine so far

I just love how distinct the region mods look

[hardy sentinel]

Update 1.3.5 is out with improved well support

[violet crest]

Is there a git branch I can subscribe to?

[hardy sentinel]

There currently isn't a github branch

[hardy sentinel]

I appreciate it but my current water filling method works and is just a tiny snippet of mwscript

[violet crest]

Nods. Just folowing along so I can learn.

First time lua/openmw....didn't mean to be a pest.

[hardy sentinel]

It's a good script. I'm sure you'll create something interesting with your new skill

[dense nymph]

Will this magically work with lua physics - if you just drag/throw an item on the gril/into the pot

could've been cool :3

[vestal turtle]

Would here be a good spot to report things that you might want to add to the food & drink lists? Kwoom eggs from TData seem like a good food candidate.

Tanna is also a good candidate for a stimulant, since its a type of tobacco-esque plant grown in hlaalu lands. (I did check that these didn't affect meters already before reporting, but like I mentioned on the nexus im using an old version so mileage may vary on how helpful this info is)

Drumpear seeds... Uh, there's a vendor in Narsis who seems to sell them as a snack.

[merry pilot]

Im on TO and guar meat in my inv yet I cant cook it

Also are there any combos for cooking or is it always only sick soup?

[hardy sentinel]

I think there are two guar meats, I might need to check whether my mod only supports the TD guar meat

[dense nymph]

And the journey begins

[hardy sentinel]

make sure to activate the openmw.scripts too

[violet crest]

How does one read/display the table/object/Records created with the following?

data_global.lua snippit.

--------------
local function processContainers(data, filename)
   for , id in ipairs(data.containers) do
      if (checkItem(id, { "Miscellaneous" })) then
         local misc = types.Miscellaneous.record(id)
         local draft = types.Potion.createRecordDraft({
            effects = {},
            icon = misc.icon,
            id = misc.id .. "_filled",
            model = misc.model,
            name = misc.name .. " (Water)",
            value = misc.value + 10,
            weight = misc.weight + 1,
         })
         local record = world.createRecord(draft)
         containers.emptyToFilled[id] = record.id
         containers.filledToEmpty[record.id] = id
      else
         print("Record for container '" .. id .. "' in patch '" .. filename .. "' doesn't exist in content files")
      end
   end
end
--------------

This seems to create Water Potion objects that move to inventory when filled or consumed.

These new Record IDs will no longer match with filled/empty containers from old game rendering containers from old saves ineffective.

Consumables will match up after running newgame though.

If I could access these records ingame, I could perhaps replace actor inventory containers/status and avoid the whole newgame hassle.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[hardy sentinel]

I didn't write this script. It's from Basic Needs for OpenMW, the developer of which is a game developer.

[hardy sentinel]

I don't think you can read the ids to be honest.

[violet crest]

I know. I hoped you understood the openmw lua environment.

[hardy sentinel]

Yes, me too 😄

I understand some of it better than other parts

[violet crest]

Nods...gotcha.

[hardy sentinel]

update coming with compatibility with "Expanded Loot - Food and Dishes" (no extra esp needed, items will work immediately)

[hardy sentinel]

update 1.3.7 is out

[hardy sentinel]

kwoom eggs and drumpear seeds are added

[hardy sentinel]

Have you tried it?

[dense nymph]

no, got stuck poking at some code again

one thing i wanted to ask though

is there already a way to display icons only when needs are not satisfied

or will you consider doing something like that

i.e i imagine thirst icon appearing only when you close to really needing a drink

maybe with a button that can show them all when held

[hardy sentinel]

hmm, I prefer it with icons always being there in theory one could change the transparency of the icons

this could even be done externally

[vestal turtle]

Drumpear fans pogging out right now

[slate saddle]

There’s a script option to disable anything but like wet and heat responses it seems

I was trying to disable everything on a cyrodiil alternate start experience for a few reasons and I couldn’t disable that. Everything else worked great!

[hardy sentinel]

Yes, that's from Basic Needs for OpenMW -> which handles hunger, thirst, exhaustion. Temperature and wetness is handled by Frostwind and my own work

[umbral matrix]

Nice, that mod looks cool.

[violet crest]

The icon indicators are a bit difficult to see for the most part.

I'm getting up there in age anyways, so pro'lly just my problem.

[slate saddle]

I have just been keeping an eye on debuffs

[dense nymph]

I've started my playthrough, maybe I'll actually play a game for once

i have a question though - is there no penalty for not satisfying your needs?

Except optional death penalty?

I thought there might be some max stam/max hp reduction thing or stat debuffs for not satisfying but the mod page doesnt seem to mention it

Also am i stupid or how do i fill water bottles from natural water sources

or is it the sea = saltwater = no fill?

be cool to have a procedure for water desalination

[oblique imp]

Always has been

stat debuffs 😄

[dense nymph]

ah i see them now ingame

I rarely pay attention to those buff icons lol, its always a buncha them there

[keen orbit]

Either in inns, from wells or from your heated pot with water

[dense nymph]

I would've also loved to see some slow/exponential hp drain for when needs hit 0

maybe % from max hp

death option as i understand just instakills you right?

[keen orbit]

Yeah, same. Still better than transparent text of basic needs though

[dense nymph]

with the drain it be an interesting balance when if youre out of water/food you still have a chance to survive chugging on health potions as a last desperate resort

[keen orbit]

Potions restore your thirst too btw

[oblique imp]

I think that in the vast majority of situations completely running out of everything and dying is not a realistic option. It's more sth that you need to keep in mind than really be afraid of.

[hardy sentinel]

The current death mechanic is still 100 % from Basic Needs for OpenMW. I personally play without it

[hardy sentinel]

You can fill you flasks and bottles and cooking pot at wells, or ask a publican (who has a kegstand) for a refill

or you can just satisfy your needs by asking a publican for food and a drink

you can also fill your cooking pot by sneaking near / in water

You can buy the cooking pot at Arielle's Tradehouse

[dense nymph]

hmm cant pick it up for some reason

maybe cos sleeping here is illegal?

[dense nymph]

thanks, i figured all the basic stuff, havent tried cooking yet. Was just surprised that i cant do anything with ocean water

[hardy sentinel]

you need a cooking pot, then you can sneak and fill it with ocean water

[dense nymph]

look at this little sneak, thinking that noones observing him, he has no idea im camping on top of the lighthouse haha

[hardy sentinel]

hmm, I can confirm that there currently is an issue with the well and using messagebox options after that. I'll see to fix that

[hardy sentinel]

sry folks, there is a bug in the latest version. The well has a script with choice buttons and apparently something isn't quite right there

[dense nymph]

:3

[hardy sentinel]

"Warning: replacing an interactive message box that was not answered yet", need to figure out what's causing this

[hardy sentinel]

I think I fixed it

will test it for a bit

[dense nymph]

🤔 Is this cos im hungry and thirsty? Doesn look like im sick though

[hardy sentinel]

You probably consumed uncooked water from the cooking pot, which may gave you swamp fever

or maybe you nibbled on raw meat

in any case, you have a disease

also you are an Outlander, which is far worse

[violet crest]

I think if you remain damp/soaked for too long you pick up disease/ stats debuff.

If you are diseased NPCs shun you.

[dense nymph]

ah sheesh you are right

I got a dampworm

no surprise im so slow now

hot damn

love it haha

[hardy sentinel]

Version 1.3.8 is out with the bug fix

[civic cosmos]

An alembic is a type of still. Ought to be able to use that to distill any water.

[violet crest]

It is and it makes sense that it should.

[civic cosmos]

Finally, a non-alchemy use for alchemy gear. Maybe it has a chance to break with low Alchemy skill.

[violet crest]

Technically it would need fire so....

Kinda pointless 'cause cooking pot.

A bottle of impure water plus alembic by a fire sounds plausible.

Add a bonus buff if ingredients included....Tea?

"Basic Needs" now "Devlish Needs" keeps containers simple: bottles and flasks. No pitchers etc...

Uhhhh...don't mind me.

[civic cosmos]

Boiling saltwater does not make it potable

[violet crest]

true

So techinaly the recipe would be: impure water, alembic, fire, empty bottle.

[civic cosmos]

Sounds about right

But one wonders how the alembic could serve in alchemy without a fire. Maybe they are simply magickal

[violet crest]

Vanilla welcomed fiiling in the blanks.

[civic cosmos]

A truly devilish need would be fire for alchemy if an alembic, retort, or calcinator is used

[violet crest]

Ok stop. OP is pro'lly stressing out unnecessarily right now.

[ebon finch]

does the mod apply "dampworm" as a disease via a script? asking because i had some trouble getting rid of it. it kept being reapplied.

i think i found it in "\basicneeds\player.lua":

   local myRace = self.type.records[self.recordId].race
   local active = types.Actor.activeSpells(self)
   for _, spell in pairs(active) do
       if spell.name and string.find(string.lower(spell.name), "meat") and myRace ~= "wood elf" then
         print(myRace)
           print("Player consumed raw meat:", spell.name)
           Actor.spells(self):add('dampworm')
           elseif spell.name and string.find(string.lower(spell.name), "cooking pot")  then
           -- You could call a custom function here instead of just printing
           Actor.spells(self):add('swamp fever')
       end
   end
end```

i think this one keeps reapplying the disease on repeat as long as the foods buff lasts ... which i am 90% sure gets triggered due to the food & dishes mod having "meat" as name iguess in their meat sandwich themed buff. and some of their buffs last for 30+ minutes ... so that could be an issue

while funny, maybe the name check needs some more filtering and either way i would suggest some kind of grace period after a condition is removed

[violet crest]

Aren't elves supposed to be vegans?

Why are you eating meat?

[ebon finch]

morrowind elfs are carnivorous but either way wood elfs wouldn't be hit with the disease

this check only applies to other races than them

[violet crest]

the code uses ~= which is equal no?

[ebon finch]

not really that familiar with lua syntax but i am pretty sure that's a negated equal as in !=

[violet crest]

So it looks like this is an intended effect for Wood Elves brought over from Basic Needs.

[ebon finch]

well it got applied to my dunmer char

also not much sense to print the race variable with print(myRace) if it only affects wood elfs

[violet crest]

Nah...you pro'lly got dampworm from staying wet for too long.

[ebon finch]

ok where is that check?

because so far dampworm as a condition only shows up here

[violet crest]

Not sure where the check is..but follow the temperature logic.

[ebon finch]

ok just googled it ... ~= is not equal

[violet crest]

Nods.

[ebon finch]

anyways for now i just commented out the line that applies the damp worm effect and can now consume meat sandwiches and other dishes with meat in their effect name without issues 🙂

i think diseases will need their own attribute in the food list ... since there is no real naming convention for that stuff its bound to cause issues

[oblique imp]

since you do it all via the inventory in Vanilla, it's obviously assumed that you are doing whatever needs to be done to finish the process

[oblique imp]

absolutely not

Wood Elves would actually eat you out of spite for saying this

🤡

[dense nymph]

eat you out?... ah.. ok.. got it

[oblique imp]

https://tenor.com/view/look-smile-smirk-breezy-moves-ornery-gif-3520545

they won't say no to corpses as well

maybe somebody will find this tidbit useful...

[golden glade]

will keep that in mind next time I steal Fargoth's ring

[hardy sentinel]

yes, this is the only easy way to check for this for vanilla, oaab and TR meats. If we are talking about additional mods then this will give you false positives

I guess I can take it out, but then I'll probably no longer offer the "raw meat" -> disease feature

[civic cosmos]

Kind of like vanilla assumes the player is eating, drinking, and sleeping adequately. See the inconsistency now?

[oblique imp]

? No? Vanilla doesn't have a primary needs system.

[civic cosmos]

Nor does it explain how fire-powered alchemy equipment "just works"

[oblique imp]

but it's completely separate

[civic cosmos]

One implies the other

[oblique imp]

these issues are not connected in any way

you can eat in Vanilla btw

and the food just disappears

no animation

that's not realistic

it's just a game limitation

(some would also say that it's convenience, but your mileage may vary)

you can equip armor instantly in 1 second as well. That's not it works. It should take time

etc.

gameplay-wise the most significant aspect is probably the lack of potion drinking animation

[civic cosmos]

The requirement for fire is the commonality here. Thread started by the idea to distill water with an alembic (a.k.a. still)

Ultimately, DN is a campfire mod 🙂

[oblique imp]

campfire, primary needs, temperature, yes. Alchemy? Eh, not really 😄

you can make potions with mortar & pestle only btw. Alembic is not required

[civic cosmos]

Right, I suggested that fire would only be necessary if using an alembic, retort, or calcinator

[oblique imp]

maybe somebody will make fully animated alchemy like in Kingdom Come Deliverance 😅

[civic cosmos]

...since fire would be required to distill seawater with an alembic

Reference is lost on me, but I always enjoy our conversations

[oblique imp]

can the mod even detect the type of water?

[civic cosmos]

Dunno. DD is differentiating between tavern water and nature water. I would be shocked if there is an in-game flag for salty/brackish/fresh water

...since it would have no use in vanilla.

This is the realism-breaker: #1358542919702937822 message

[tawny bridge]

illest503

Boiling saltwater does not make it potable

Linked by @​illest503 from #Devilish Needs · May 25, 2025, 1:19 AM

[civic cosmos]

Alternatively, we headcanon all seas to be freshwater in Tamriel

[oblique imp]

Doubtful. If anything, it's about technical ability and effort required to implement sth like this 😄

[hardy sentinel]

I'm not going to make a difference between fresh water and sea water. That's just not feasible

[oblique imp]

well, that settles it

[civic cosmos]

This is the answer that pairs with DD's like a fine wine 😅

The other option for consistency is no boiling water for sustenance

Although rainwater collection would be pretty awesome and thematic/immersive

Taking it further, the rainwater collector could collect a unique alchemy ingredient in ashstorms 😈

[dense nymph]

can make it so natural water has a chance of carraying disease

unless boiled

[civic cosmos]

Right, that was the discussion. But...saltwater cannot be boiled into potability, so here we are, headcanoning

[dense nymph]

yea, either all water is fresh, or all water is salty but livers (or other organs) of vvardenfell can just somehow deal with it

[oblique imp]

headcanon is copium 😄

[dense nymph]

if they can have magic, long legs and left-handed archery - why not

[civic cosmos]

Yes, we should all have super-buff muscles for suspension of disbelief already 😂

Untreated nature water might ought to have a higher chance to make the Neverurine sick when he or she is more dehydrated or near death from it

[oblique imp]

This is interesting. I remember it being discussed a long time ago. The readme says that there is a chance for catching a disease when eating raw eat, but no mention of water

[civic cosmos]

FWIW, I do recognize most of the implementation implications from ideas I have fun discussing. A higher chance of illness approaching 100% when vulnerable is just mathing the feature DD was proposing

My other ideas yesterday/today have been more of the fanciful and pedantically-realistic type 😊

Rest assured that I would never dream of suggesting that this turn into a dysentary/diarrhea simulator 😌

From about 12 hours ago: #1358542919702937822 message

[tawny bridge]

detaildevil

You probably consumed uncooked water from the cooking pot, which may gave you swamp fever

Linked by @​illest503 from #Devilish Needs · May 24, 2025, 10:26 PM

[hardy sentinel]

It's just too massive of a headache to account for salt water.

[ebon finch]

i don't think disease works well as a limiting factor for the mod ... technical issues aside (the meat thing) doesn't the morrowind story basically nullify that feature once you are healed of corprus?

you would end up with a situation where a core feature only works early on or if the player already has other disease resistance debuffs

[civic cosmos]

The Neverurine can drink whatever water they like, checks out

[hardy sentinel]

I think I'll just remove the "eating raw meat => chance of disease"

[civic cosmos]

...for Bosmeri

[hardy sentinel]

for everyone

[civic cosmos]

Why?

[hardy sentinel]

It'll lead to false positives with foods from other mods

[civic cosmos]

Ah

[ebon finch]

btw i wanted to ask, is there a reason as to why the meatcheck (or now water check) happens on repeat instead of just on consumption? or does the game not track potion usage via event?

[hardy sentinel]

I think this currently happens in a check repeated every 2 seconds or so

it's just the typical mwscript functionality I'm used to

something repeating again and again

[ebon finch]

asking because you already have a onConsume named function which looked like the right place for this to me

[hardy sentinel]

It's not a big deal either way. It shouldn't really make a difference in performance

[ebon finch]

yeah i guess ... as long as the water effect is only one tick long

[hardy sentinel]

but yes, onconsumption can probably be used for such a check

[oblique imp]

does the mod wrongly recognise food items as raw meat?

[hardy sentinel]

Anything with the "meat" string in the id

which is usally raw meat

[austere skiff]

Throwing my two septims into the water discussion. I think anyone bothered by the fact that you can make seawater potable can always choose to limit themselves to only using water from lakes and rivers when filling bottles. We're already choosing a more roleplay-heavy approach to playing MW by using this mod, it's not a big step further to roleplay out aspects that are just not feasible to program into the mod. :)

[civic cosmos]

You have described a key MW skill here Marian

[oblique imp]

well, it's not a big deal, then. Maybe no reason to remove that feature? I mean, it's already there and I don't think it's really causing problems. And even if you get a disease from some odd mod-added non-raw meat item, it's nothing that cannot solved with a cure disease potion.

[hardy sentinel]

I just don't feel like having this discussion over and over again when someone eats meat and gets the worms 😄

[oblique imp]

hey

food poisoning happens

😄

[hardy sentinel]

I'm doing what I can. I'm not a miracle worker.

[oblique imp]

sometimes I get sick while eating cooked food...

shit happens 😄

[civic cosmos]

TR/etc just have a more lax health code than vanilla, where is problem?

[tawny bridge]

illest503

Rest assured that I would never dream of suggesting that this turn into a dysentary/diarrhea simulator 😌

Linked by @​illest503 from #Devilish Needs · May 25, 2025, 10:56 AM

[oblique imp]

I think that TR food items are covered by default

[dense nymph]

mmm does it give you sickness resist or why does it nullify?

[oblique imp]

you get 100% disease resistance if you heal Corprus

not a problem at all

it happens only during MQ and not early on

I don't even do the MQ with every character

it's optional

[civic cosmos]

I haven't done the MQ for a decade at least

[dense nymph]

i mean... isnt it possible to just mess around with that somehow - remove that 100% disease resist and patch it up on top with some lua so that corpus is removed if you get it again

[oblique imp]

but it's canon that you get disease resistance

after you heal Corprus

you can still be affected by weakness to disease effect btw

and then get diseased

[dense nymph]

yea, i personally wouldn't mind that canon be removed for the sake of fun

[oblique imp]

some races get 75% disease resistance naturally btw. Just another type of benefit.

[civic cosmos]

Maybe weakness to disease is better for a penalty than direct infection

[oblique imp]

interesting suggestion

and it works for everyone

seems to be partially covered already

you get disease weakness if you are tired

I guess that effect could easily be included in other types of needs

[civic cosmos]

Cured Nerevar is disease-immune in vanilla, yes, but has no basic needs or environmental vulnerability either

[oblique imp]

does temperature affect disease resistance? Feels like coldness could lower it.

[hardy sentinel]

I don't think it currently does

I'm open minded to overhaul the debuffs of the needs. Currently they more or less resemble the effects from either Bascic Needs for OpenMW or Frostwind