Harder Better Faster Stronger

[empty forum]

Which btw are awesome and improve my gaming experience 😊

[dry galleon]

the new update looks tight! thanks mym!

[lyric pier]

HBFS 2.4.2 released!

• Added compatibility with NCGDMW 4.6 on armor skill scaling
• Fixed harmless error when being hit while in god mode

[cunning compass]

Is getting hit in god mod even possible?

[lyric pier]

There is no visual or audible clue, but internally yes

[quaint plume]

I noticed that running backward is possible even when the appropriate option that prevents it is enabled.

[cunning compass]

Do you have your weapon ready? Or a spell? IIRC it only blocks running if that's the case.

[quaint plume]

Oh, you're right, I forgot that this is about fighting, I feel silly now

[cunning compass]

Better to ask the way than go astray

[lyric pier]

HBFS 2.4.3 released!

• New feature that prevents you from repairing too damaged items, if your Armorer skill is not high enough (on by default)
• Doc improvements

Thx to @cunning compass for his armorer idea!

[coral oriole]

What are doc improvements? @lyric pier

[lyric pier]

The mod description and setting descriptions. Clarifications, fixes...

[coral oriole]

Ah, okay.

[charred turret]

@lyric pier Hey dude, I am loving this mod, it’s making all my fights much more hard-won, in a good way.

But, I’ve found an annoying mod interaction with the mod SME - Show Me Everything, where every time I exit the range of a character, the of their’s triggers to reduce the amount of health the character had from how your mod changes it. So for example when I exit the a building, a character from that area’s healthbar appears at once on top of each other, but then disappears like normal. Is there anyway you can think of to unhook your mod triggering the healthbar coming up?

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/53996

[lyric pier]

Yes, we suggested the author to delay a bit the display of bars, it will fix this issue. But no answer yet.

[charred turret]

Understood, gotta be on their end. Thank you dude

[cunning compass]

So... I've been recently inspired by Limited Invervention mods for MSWE. I like the idea of limiting Divine/Almsivi Intervention somewhat but I think that the idea can be greatly expanded with the following primary goals in mind: greater immersion and convenience-has-a-cost system. New optional HBFS module... maybe?

I don't know what's actually technically possible, but gameplay-wise my idea is to turn Intervention spells - very convenient and cheap travel options - into a tactical resource that can be replenished with time or with money. Immersion-wise the idea is that this kind of teleportation magic is regulated by the Temple and the Imperial Cult so that stray pilgrims and travelers may find help in this dangerous country but those who try to use the magic willy-nilly for convenience or profit have to be extorted themselves make regular donations to the local Temple/Imperial Cult facility.

So here is how it could work:

1. Two separate caps for Almsivi Intervention and Divine Intervention.
2. Base cap is 1 (configurable) per each Intervention type. Spells, scrolls and enchanted items all follow the same restrictions.
3. The cap is increased for each Imperial Cult/Temple rank. Rank 0 doesn't increase the cap as you are a noob. Each rank also lowers the cap of the opposing faction. It won't get below 1 (configurable) but if you have the same rank in both factions, you won't really benefit from the increased cap.
4. Using Almsivi/Divine Intervention consumes 1 point. Consumed points regenerate based on real time (no easy way out with waiting or resting). The replenishment rate is configurable. Let's say that it's 60 real time minutes on default.
5. Another way of replenishing points is by paying money. It would work a bit like Imperial altars/Temple shrines. Just as with altar/shrine donations, money disappears from the game world, so you can't just easily take it back.

6. Money-based replenishment has certain restrictions and cost is not static. Here are the factors:
   -> no replenishment for known criminals (bounty). You have to deal with it first, criminal scum. Then we can talk.
   -> no replenishment for expelled faction members. The factions won't help traitors.
   -> the Temple won't replenish Almsivi Intervention points if the player is declared Nerevarine until persecution of the Nerevarine stops (Vivec meeting) or Dagoth Ur is defeated (backup check just in case so the player is not locked out from money-based replenishment forever if MQ is completed in a non-standard way).
   -> money cost scales with each replenishment by doubling the previous cost (configurable). Example: 1 replenishment - 50 gold, 2 replenishment - 100 gold, 3 replenishment - 200 gold, 4 replenishment - 400 gold etc. There would be a configurable max cap to prevent silliness like spending millions of gold on this. There is also cooldown period (configurable) that lowers the replenishment cost in real time so if you are not spamming replenishments, you will slowly go back to lower prices.

[lyric pier]

Thx for your suggestion! I'll take the time to think about it in 10 days when life will release me from multiple duties

[lyric pier]

HBFS v2.5 released!

• Requires OpenMW 0.50 or newer (removed compatibility with OpenMW 0.49)
• Added interoperability with Skill Evolution

[lyric pier]

HBFS 2.5.2 released!

• The condition of submerged weapons and armors is now degraded (on by default, thx to @cunning compass's idea)
• Renamed the "Death Damages Equipment Condition" setting, please check your settings if it was disabled

[abstract ferry]

Nice haha, how did you end up tracking the player’s submersion/depth?

[lyric pier]

Only the containers' Z position compared to the water level of their cell

[lofty needle]

So i just installed HBFS and now I die instantly upon loading my save

[dry galleon]

you wanted it harder 🤷

[lofty needle]

If i toggle god mode I dont die

Im really curious as to what is killing me though

[dry galleon]

yeah thats curious for sure

[lofty needle]

well tgm on and lets check the script options

Interesting apparently per the debug im taking magic damage from something

i resurrected myself and turned tgm off and my health is like plumetting rapidly

econds
[2012.740 I] L@0x1[scripts/hbfs/player.lua]: DEBUG: <player (@0x1)> taken magic damage was increased by 8.56 from 7 effect(s) over 0.11 seconds
[2012.838 I] L@0x1[scripts/hbfs/player.lua]: DEBUG: <player (@0x1)> taken magic damage was increased by 8.60 from 7 effect(s) over 0.11 seconds
[2012.950 I] L@0x1[scripts/hbfs/player.lua]: DEBUG: <player (@0x1)> taken magic damage was increased by 9.11 from 7 effect(s) over 0.11 seconds
[2013.055 I] L@0x1[scripts/hbfs/player.lua]: DEBUG: <player (@0x1)> taken magic damage was increased by 8.57 from 7 effect(s) over 0.11 seconds
[2013.157 I] L@0x1[scripts/hbfs/player.lua]: DEBUG: <player (@0x1)> taken magic damage was increased by 8.33 from 7 effect(s) over 0.10 seconds
[2013.263 I] L@0x1[scripts/hbfs/player.lua]: DEBUG: <player (@0x1)> taken magic damage was increased by 8.63 from 7 effect(s) over 0.11

So something is making me take damage but what

[lyric pier]

Could you upload your game save here please?

[lofty needle]

sorry was a sleep before

[lyric pier]

No pb, I'll check that as soon as wife and kids give me a break

[lofty needle]

Take ur time I have it disabled currently to continue

[lyric pier]

Did you disable the whole mod or just magic damage increase?

[lofty needle]

The whole mod

[lyric pier]

Just set 100% to magic damage increase, it should fix your issue

[lofty needle]

Roger. It was just weird that I was randomly starting to take damage. It was killing me on load up

[lyric pier]

I can understand. Weird things can happen, and I already handled some of them.

[lofty needle]

10/4 I appreciate u taking the time. I'll check it out

[lyric pier]

WHen I load you r game same, nothing specil happens, but in the logds si get:

[23:59:25.497 E] Dropping non-existent active effect: "children of the sky"```

Are there spells from se confclitingp mods?

BTW I see other erros that my be insterstand to understaznd:

[23:59:24.581 E] stack traceback:
[23:59:24.581 E]     [C]: in function 'error'
[23:59:24.581 E]     [string "/home/myo/Applications/MW/openmw-0.50/./resou..."]:36: in function 'getIndexFromKey'
[23:59:24.581 E]     [string "/home/myo/Applications/MW/openmw-0.50/./resou..."]:78: in function '__index'
[23:59:24.581 E]     [string "scripts/omw/settings/menu.lua"]:380: in function <[string "scripts/omw/settings/menu.lua"]:362>
[23:59:24.581 E]     [C]: in function 'set'
[23:59:24.581 E]     [string "scripts/omw/settings/common.lua"]:127: in function <[string "scripts/omw/settings/common.lua"]:122>
[23:59:24.581 E]     [C]: in ?
[23:59:24.581 E]     [C]: in ?
[23:59:24.581 E] Error in callback: Lua error: [string "/home/myo/Applications/MW/openmw-0.50/./resou..."]:36: Unexpected content key:lockpickHotkey
[23:59:24.581 E] stack traceback:
[23:59:24.581 E]     [C]: in function 'error'
[23:59:24.581 E]     [string "/home/myo/Applications/MW/openmw-0.50/./resou..."]:36: in function 'getIndexFromKey'
[23:59:24.581 E]     [string "/home/myo/Applications/MW/openmw-0.50/./resou..."]:78: in function '__index'
[23:59:24.581 E]     [string "scripts/omw/settings/menu.lua"]:380: in function <[string "scripts/omw/settings/menu.lua"]:362>
[23:59:24.581 E]     [C]: in function 'set'
[23:59:24.581 E]     [string "scripts/omw/settings/common.lua"]:127: in function <[string "scripts/omw/settings/common.lua"]:122>
[23:59:24.581 E]     [C]: in ?
[23:59:24.581 E]     [C]: in ?

maybe one of your mods are buggy, on maybe you ened to reset the settings settings of this mod

the one that adds lockpick and probe hotckeys

[lofty needle]

I can reset the one for the lockpicks and probes. I didn't quite get the question you asked before

[lofty needle]

This one

Assuming you're asking if there are spells from Some conflicting mods?

I can honestly just remove that convenient thief tool mod. It uses a new pick or probe every time I use it instead of using the existing orn

[lyric pier]

Ah yes, I experienced that, no optimization on that topic. The fix would not be hard to do though

Are you player with 0.51?

[lofty needle]

0.50.0

Is there a way I can pull those same logs? Would it be in the Lua debug?

I managed to find a line that points to why I die instantly

[19:17:53.131 I] L@0x1[scripts/hbfs/player.lua]: DEBUG: <player (@0x1)> adding 3669.07 drain health damage to base 7338.14

Even at 100% it still drains my health at a pretty intense rate.

[lyric pier]

Enable HBFS logs in the settings, then press F10

[lyric pier]

Wait, you have 7338 health points??? And the drain is huge too. What original drain caused that?

[lofty needle]

I dont i only have 294 health

I have absolutely no clue where that drain is coming from

I never had any sort of drain spell that powerful

Cast on me

The only thing I can think of is maybe the formulations from CHIM is causing it? Sector mentioned something about the formulas would not have caused any issues I think

[lofty needle]

I have an idea. Ill test it once I have a moment

[lofty needle]

I can confirm for some reason im taking 7338 points of damage to my health

I maxed out the cap of NCG and set my endurance to 9999 with HBFS off. turned it on and I lost half of my hp. It looks like im losing about 100 health a second

Now the question is from what

https://tenor.com/view/batman-thinking-gif-18107621495886085895

[lofty needle]

Well than. S3ctor helped me with a lua script to show all active effects on me

Uhh

Okay what in the actual is going on here

okay that's present without HBFS as well. Perhaps I might need to remove that effect from my character to fix this

Or find the lua code inflicting that raw effect

[lofty needle]

Since im not very knowledgable with Lua I used a bit of chat GPT to help provide the proper functions and the right callings. The Drain health and Absorb health were the things that were killing me and they were coming from a NIL source. Punched in another command to set the values to 0 and now I dont die

[lyric pier]

Really strange those negative values.

I don't think HBFS is faulty here

[lofty needle]

I actually found out where those were coming from

Toggle God Mode

For some reason SOMETHING is compounding all of the damage taken into Drain health but at a disabled value. HBFS is activating that value and cranking it up by the magic damage value

Maybe it might be a Openmw Quirk or a base game quirk

[lyric pier]

You mean that HBFS damages you while in God mode?

[lofty needle]

Its creating a symptom but its not the root cause

It doesnt help that when punching in a command to locate the source its giving me a nil value

so no more Toggling God mode testing things

[lyric pier]

HBFS is supposed to detect the God mode and disable its damage

[lofty needle]

Correct which its doing but the second that I disable god mode

I liquify

This is a mod conflict somewhere for sure I just have 0 clue what mod is causing this compounding damage

[lyric pier]

Hard to tell indeed

[dry galleon]

could it be solthas? iirc you use that right? just thinking it has that feature that applies extra damage

[lofty needle]

Maybe, I would need to review all of Sol's mods

[cunning compass]

Lose More Health mod

[lofty needle]

That's disabled

[lyric pier]

HBFS 2.5.3 released!

• Excluded the GMST economy addon from the merged addon, as I now recommend using the new potion creation price feature from Skill Evolution
• Fixed rare error when trying to steal from an NPC

[strong gulch]

Anyone using this alongside QuickLoot Pickpocket Overhaul?

HBFS modifies the front view sneak difficulty:
fSneakViewMult: 2 (from 1.5)

QuickLoot Pickpocket also has parameters for this:

[strong gulch]

Hello. I just installed HBFS yesterday. Here's some early feedback. I reserve myself for making hasty conclusions so do take my feedback with a grain of salt!

Magic

• I like all the changes here except for the Fatigue cost for spells

• It feels too much compared to attacks

• I went from 0 cost to using half of my total fatigue for just a single strong spell at 75% encumbrance

• The issue is compounding if you want to cast spells continously as your spell success chance is also lowered, but already high magicka cost spells are even more costly

• I think a more gentle fatigue cost that matches attacking would feel better, keeping encumbrance increasing the fatigue cost. I think we are limited by how the game settings are defined here, but if the base magicka cost from the formula could be replaced by a static base value maybe that could work? Its probably ok if this base value is slightly higher than attacks because you don't cast spells as fast.

• Attacks doesn't even spend more if you are encumbered or not. They seem to stay in the 2-10 fatigue cost range depending on chargeup.

• I ended up reverting fFatigueSpellBase to 0 and changing fFatigueSpellCostMulti to 0.5. Its not ideal nor similar to how attacks work, but I am now seeing at least some impact every time I cast spells.

• While modifying the GMSTs I noticed there are actually similar ones for attacks:

• fFatigueAttackBase

• fFatigueAttackMult

• Perhaps an improvement to the mod is to add an encumbrance factor to attacks as well? Since it already seems to have a static base maybe this will be an easy addition to the mod with a reasonable value.

• I haven't touched it myself but I think it needs a very careful minor value to not be too punishing (obviously it already is harsh early on).

• But a change like this falls in line with the purpose of this mod I guess! It would also make attacking while levitating punish fatigue more (since movement while levitating has no fatigue loss).

Disposition

• Increased racism = good
• Weapon drawn... I see no scenario where this actually makes a difference. Forced dialogue perhaps? But I can't think of any forced dialogue that requires you to have high disposition (assuming you run into one with weapon drawn).
• On the contrary this mechanic can be abused to get 100 disposition with NPCs more easily (persuade with weapon drawn if starting above 50, stop at just below 90, unsheath, and you're at 100).
• However! This might make more sense if it would work at all times. Thus affecting NPCs with a high fight value and low enough disposition to attack you if you get close enough to them with drawn weapons:
  "A Disposition above 50 will decrease "effective Fight", while a Disposition below 50 will increase it."
  "80: Will attack as PC gets close if they dislike you enough (1000 units if under 25 Disposition, 200 units if under 45 Disposition, will not attack at 50 Disposition)."
  (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:NPCs#Fight)

Flee

• Seems to work fine. The only outlier I've noticed is Cliff Racers going into a flee-attack loop where they start fleeing but once they reach a certain distance they re-engage.. only to immediately start fleeing just before getting within melee range. Seems a bit stupid and annoying when this happens. Not sure if this happens to other flying creatures.

[cunning compass]

I don't use QL Pickpocket but SneakViewMult is for sneaking in general, not just pickpocketting. This optional HBFS module makes sneaking more difficult if NPC is looking your way. In Vanilla it's 1.5 mod for front and 0.5 for back.

[strong gulch]

Yeah exactly HBFS should only complement QLPP as QLPP only checks for pickpocket success not whether you are seen.

By the way, I think its a great plug-in due to the option of changing pickpocket success from Sneak to Security. It makes Security actually mandatory for pickpocketing. Before this you can actually ignore Security & lockpicks completely if you just use Open Alteration spell along with Telekinesis for traps.

Continued feedback

Repair (Minimum Condition Repair Requirement)

Your Armorer skill level conditions which items can be repaired. The more damaged the item, the higher the Armorer skill level requirement.

My Glass Shield broke completely from all the initial testing of this mod. So I wondered if I could make a Fortify Armorer 100 spell to bypass this restriction. For just 10s duration it is cheap to make just 150g and costs 55 magicka.

And yeah. I could repair anything after that. Its dumb too because the repair UI pauses (doesn't even get unpaused by Pause Control!) so you can even get away with a cheaper spell. But 10s is enough to quickly repair, and recast even without pause.

I suggest to change this so it only checks for the base "non-temporary fortified" Armorer value.

[cunning compass]

I will bump up my old Almsivi/Divine Intervention idea . In fact, I will suggest a potential simpler alternative as well. HBFS option for cooldowns for Intervention and Recall spells. Each one counted separately. Cooldowns would be customisable, of course, and they would be counted in real time to prevent getting around them too easily. There could even be a soft cap option, e.g. much higher magicka cost for repeated casts during the cooldown period in case of spells (while enchanted items and scrolls would still simply not work), but then it becomes more complex again, so maybe it's best to keep it simple. I expect this to be relatively simple to implement but I might be wrong ofc.

[strong gulch]

Maybe just increase the base magicka cost by a significant amount?

Or you want it to be more limited for combat situations as well? Hmm, yeah then that wouldn't balance it much because intervention scrolls are free and have 100% success.

[cunning compass]

That would be the soft cap option. First cast cheap, second much higher cost, third very expensive etc. However, since it's not hard to get enchanted scrolls and items with these effects, cooldowns would be the best overall.

[strong gulch]

Stats and Potions Limit - 1.12 [raffl] implemented a cooldown for potion usage. Maybe steal this for intervention? 🥷

The only thing I dislike about that mod is... if using the default Quick Menu putting potions on there and surpassing the limit will knock down your character, if you do the same with scrolls that would probably happen too if copypasta'd the code. But I use Zerkish Hotkeys now and this bypasses the built-in vanilla menu so this doesn't happen. The second thing is the cooldown timer stops if you open your inventory even if the game is not paused.

[cunning compass]

Teleportation magic is super convenient as it allows the player both to carry much more loot than normal as well as to hop around way way faster than normal so the benefits are huge. Faster travel and less skill decay because of it, more loot to sell because you don't have to worry about hauling it back on foot, less needs accumulation in survival mods like Sun's Dusk as you spend less time travelling, less taxes to pay with pay tax mod because you "waste" less time travelling, less money spent on fast travel options because you have your own fast travel method etc. It's actually crazy how much you are getting out of this so it def fits HBFS vibe to impose some optional limits 🔥

[lyric pier]

Thx @strong gulch for all your feedback on my mods, this is really useful to improve them. I'm sorry I didn't have much time recently to fully read and answer all your posts, but I'll try during the next days.

[strong gulch]

I played my fair share of Lord of the Rings: Online. It's a different type of RPG, but it had a base 30min cooldown for traveling skills (which was basically a spell with a 8 second or so casting time). So you had to plan your questing routes if you wanted to be efficient and avoid manually riding/walking between locations.

And if you tried to use it in combat, you would be interrupted if an enemy tried to hit you while casting this travel spell.

[cunning compass]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-hmmm-thinking-one-second-let-me-think-gif-15838250914742163450

[strong gulch]

I tried to find a short video example, but this will have to do. Make sure to click this link with the timestamp so you see only the point of the video where he uses the travel skill: https://youtu.be/3qipcXZ6NSY?t=301

Speed Haste [by ownlyme] https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/56465

Scales cast and attack speed based on the Speed attribute and the specific skill level per weapon type / spell school.

But maybe this concept can be applied in reverse only for Intervention spells.

So it would fit naturally by the rest of Morrowind mechanics. If you have high chance to evade you are more likely to finish casting, and mage archetypes with high Mysticism skill will cast it a bit faster than others. Warrior types maybe will have to man up and survive, or spend some time improving Speed/Mysticism 🙂

So... there you have it, two different concepts from other mods that might introduce a cooldown and now also a method to make it harder to escape dangerous situations in an instant.

I think Intervention Scrolls use your Enchant skill level to determine the cast speed with Speed Haste mod however, so there are couple variables to think of.

[cunning compass]

Here is sth considering a different issue: constant healing. In almosf all of my playthroughs making a constant healing item is a game-changer. Passive healing (even at low values!), especially when combined with high AR and/or resistances, makes the game far easier. Not only it's very convenient in most situations but it also prevents many low-to-mid lvl enemies from hurting the player at all (they just don't have the DPS) even if there are 2 or 3 of them. Since healing becomes passive, you can shrug off most damage (as long as it doesn't kill you instantly) without consuming any resources - no potions, magicka, scrolls or resting required. The item also never runs out of power, i.e. no soulgem recharge required as it's a constant effect. It all disrupts the balance a bit too much IMO.

I'm wondering how the situation could be improved.

The first thing that comes to mind is to block Restore Health from available constant effects in enchanting. However, I'm not sure it's technically possible to do this without blocking the effect for all enchantments (cast on use and cast on strike as well) and that may be a bit too much. IIRC a simple CS switch makes a spell effect unavailable for Enchanting in general so it may be harder than that.

Another idea is a cooldown for constant regen after taking damage. Basically, getting hurt would block these items from working for X seconds. Getting hit again during that time would reset the cooldown. That would greatly lower the potency of constant regen in combat. You could still get around it by disengaging and dodging but it would be far less convenient and would require some effort. It would also bring some value back to other means of healing even if you have a constant regen item.

Yet another idea is to give constant regen limited capacity. Basically, healing dmg with these items would consume charges which would need to be restored by using a filled soul gem. It's not sth which is possible to do for constant items in Vanilla so there would need to be some LUA workarounds. Whether that's possible is uncertain to me but the idea is there. It would introduce the concept of a recurring cost which would lead to healthier gameplay.

A hardcore variant of the above would be permament constant regen item discharge. After healing X amount of dmg depending on item's enchanting capacity, it would be replaced with an unechanted version. It would only work for generic items, of course. Artifacts/uniques would be untouched as they don't have generic unenchanted variants.

This is all just food for thought. I described the problem and I'm trying to brainstorm a solution. There may be other ones as well.

[strong gulch]

I don't think this is an easy fix. Besides, unless you make a super strong constant heal, self-made potions are far superior to this anyway. And you'll still get killed by high level enemies with some HBFS scaling that easily goes through a few points of constant restore health...

It is relevant for things like afk leveling of armor skills, but anyone who wants to cheat the game this way has a lot of tools to do so anyway. There's even a bug (maybe I should report this lol) where if you hotkey a spell and cast it while the inventory is open it will automatically recast it as if you turned on a macro.

[lyric pier]

@unborn hedge I tried to dynamically attach the actor scripts but I don't think I'll get something reliable.
I tried:

• from the global script, with the onActorActive event, attach the actor script and update his stats (through the initData of the script attachment)
• from the actor script, with the onInactive event, restore the actor stats, send a global event to request the script detachment
  But:
• because of event delays, sometimes I get 2 active or inactive events in a row
• I miss some onInactive events when the script is not attached in time (some actors have a blinking activity after cell loading...)
• I tried to queue the activation/deactivation requests, and process them sequentially, but the numbers don't match in some cases

I think I'll go back to a permanent script attachment, but with a complete state cleaning on inactive

and the permanent actor state I needed will be saved in the global script

[unborn hedge]

Why use the local onInactive instead of onObjectInactive? That seems like most of the reason for it not working.

[lyric pier]

I had no idea such event could exist

[lyric pier]

I cannot find any info on OpenMW's doc about that event

[unborn hedge]

Huh? What do you mean???

Oh, yeah, I guess you're right. Fuck me, I'm sick.

[lyric pier]

I'm right because it's not documented, or I'm right because the event doesn't exist? 😅

[lyric pier]

option 2

[unborn hedge]

I swear that's like the tenth time I've just hallucinated onObjectInactive and it's happened enough times now I'm considering just implementing it so I stop trying to do shit that doesn't exist.

[tight patrol]

[strong gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-hardy-thats-bait-photoshop-gif-26646069

[lyric pier]

I'm not finished with optimizations

[lyric pier]

Is it for real? Could you upload your game save?

[tight patrol]

yeah, 100% real
lemme just double check if it's persistent

Nope, sadly, it's not persistent

[cunning compass]

Your PC didn't explode?

[tight patrol]

nope
I think openmw just wanted to troll me

[lyric pier]

Was it on the first game load after HBFS upgrade?

[tight patrol]

I'm pretty sure no

[lyric pier]

If it ever persists again, please send me the suspicious game save

[tight patrol]

🤝

[cunning compass]

do you even have a hard drive which can handle sizes like that? 😄

[elfin cape]

Awesome mod! Little question regarding the repair limitation, is it possible to have something more dynamical with the current openMW, e.g. repairing some iron dagger, even close to destroy, is probably much easier than repairing a glass or daedric dagger ^^. (Damn, I would love so much if we also needed raw material to repair "beyond repair" armour and weapons 😁 )

[strong gulch]

Its also much easier to break Light Armor and a little easier with Medium et.c. because they are designed with lower total condition. But classes specialized into Armor are almost exclusive High STR and Heavy Armor classes...

Same with weapons. Heavy weight = a lot of condition usually

[cunning compass]

You are right that a broken iron dagger would probably be easier to repair than a damaged glass one, for example. This is actually an old idea which was discussed a few times. I remember that various factors were being considered including price, item ID/name (possible janky material detection), magical status etc. However, mym eventually gave up on this. It was more tricky than expected. It needs to works consistently for all vanilla and modded items including possible price/item balance overhauls. The current simple system is what works right now so we have that, at least. I'm glad @lyric pier managed to implement this as it basically introduced feature parity with KDC here

Another old repair-focused feature that was considered a long time ago but ultimately put on hold was the possibility of damaging equipment instead of repairing it. Some of the similar problems reappeared (you expect Iron Armour to be easier to repair with low skill than Ebony, for example). New ones appeared as well like issues with player feedback (you expect to get some info about item degradation chance etc.)

One thing which I hope makes it is customisable time consumption for Repair (and Enchanting) as we already have this for Alchemy in SE.

[elfin cape]

Agree, both would be awesome indeed, but I am also rather happy with what we have yes ^^. I just switch it on/off when I have a bunch of broken loot I want to repair, following a simple rule base on the price. A bit annoying, but easy to do by hand anyway 🙂

[elfin cape]

That would be super cool indeed!

(I currently do some manual waiting after repair currently 😂 )

[cunning compass]

it has just been implemented in Skill Evolution 😄

[lyric pier]

HBFS 2.6.1 released!

• Reduced saved data size in game saves
• Size optimization concerns actors saved states, and affects new games, and actors loaded or re-loaded after the upgrade
• Improved log formatting (useful for bug reports)

[magic slate]

quick qn if I install this on an existing save game, will I get filesize decreases if i reload actors on cells I visited before (with ra console command, prob?)

[lyric pier]

that's the intent 🙂

only HBFS saved data will reduce, not data from other mods

[magic slate]

good to know!

[cunning compass]

How big if your file?

[lyric pier]

a simple test to know how much size a mod takes, is to disable it in the launcher, then open a game save, create a new save, then compare the new save with the previous one

[elfin cape]

By the way, do you think that could be a valid approach for my nexus question about only applying a % of the HBFS modifiers to the summon creature until a certain conjuration/chance of summoning is reached 🤔 ?

[lyric pier]

This would require a dedicated approach, and a tough balance thought

we would need a mapping of summon type <-> required conjuration level

[cunning compass]

I always set HBFS mods off for summons as I find them useful regardless. I'm sure that sth like that could be done, though. The simplest thing would be to use Conjuration skill lvl for scaling within set parameters (min cap and max cap). For example. if you set it to 0 and 100% it would be 0 HBFS bonus at 0 Conjuration and 100% HBFS bonus at 100 Conjuration.

then you don't need thresholds, summon type checks etc. I'm sure it's all possible as well. Just much more involved.

[elfin cape]

imo that would already a very awesome change. While I agree the summons are still very useful, the gap can grows very quickly if you want to play (as I wanted) as summoner only character who cannot use any weapons 😁 . Manually setting all the other school to 0 on top 😁

[strong gulch]

Hmm.. HBFS giving me a hard time here ||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJYR945HL-M||

But its not really. I didn't know you could skip this boss, he's supposed to be for later part right before going up against Dagoth Ur. I was just grabbing the Third Trial quest items.

Also didn't realize his Agility Drain was mostly responsible for my hit chance.

But Hand-to-Hand probably needs some nerfing. I'm going to increase the Fatigue scaling/Fatigue Regen scaling with HBFS to counter the HtH so it isn't too strong in 1v1.

[lyric pier]

Maybe it's "Beware of the Sixth House" which makes it tougher

[magic slate]

very late answer, but 23.0mb in about 24h of play
after disabling the omwscripts of fresh loot, hbfs, faircare, and bms and saving, filesize went down to 19.8mb

[cunning compass]

It's not that big of a difference but it adds up, I guess.

[strong gulch]

It is. HBFS on top of it. My point is hand-to-hand combat is a bit too strong still so I think HBFS can make it right. It's not hard enough! 😄 (I should have died in the video really, was meddling with things shouldn't too early)

[magic slate]

yeah, my last 120h smth save I restartitis'd from a few weeks ago were iirc nearing 100mb if not more

[strong gulch]

As in real life, the little things all add up to something greater.

[lyric pier]

Thx for the report. It seems reasonable. Please do more reports later with your current game.

[lyric pier]

HBFS has settings for high level actors

[magic slate]

just out of curiosity, would it prob be safe to play on with the save where I disabled all four first (and then reenabled)?

[lyric pier]

this may have some consequences

hbfs will not restore stats of some actors for example

[magic slate]

ah good to know, would stick with the earlier save then

[strong gulch]

Yes. But that controls the scaling of everything. I just want to nerf fist fighting. Raising these two should do the trick:

Will Endurance scale NPC HP though?

[cunning compass]

No

[strong gulch]

Good

[lyric pier]

No indeed. In your screenshot you can see what's impacted.

[strong gulch]

Just want to make sure.

[lyric pier]

HBFS 2.7 released!

• Difficulty presets: Halved agility and willpower buffs
• Economy plugin: Removed the potion creation price GMST (I recommend Skill Evolution's related feature)
• Economy plugin: Increased costs for spells, spells making, travels, and training
• Economy plugin: Reduced enchantment costs
• The economy plugin is now included again in the merged plugin

Thx @cunning compass for the tweak suggestions and tests!

[tepid ether]

Does this mod overlap/conflict with Alchemical Hustle? I know it has some overlap with For the Right Price

[lyric pier]

No known issues with alchemical hustle

HBFS now alters the same things as FtRP's service module, you just have to put HBFS's plugins after FtRP ones

[tepid ether]

Got it! Thank you!

[tepid ether]

I think the service module is the only one used in the EV modlist lol

[lyric pier]

Yeah. The merchant one conflicts with Better Merchants Skills. The wealthy merchants one eases the game. The creatures one has an alternative in the lists

[tepid ether]

Ah gotcha

Thank you for the info!

[tepid ether]

I’m assuming any other mods that HBFS conflicts or overlaps with are listed on the mod page right?

[lyric pier]

Not all possible conflicts

No problem with MOMW lists though

[tepid ether]

Okay cool! I haven't added many gameplay mods on top of EV

[tepid ether]

Do you mind if I ask about other known conflicts?

[lyric pier]

Known conflicts are listed in the docs

[tepid ether]

Sweet thank ya

[lyric pier]

But there are too many mods out there

[tepid ether]

Tell me about it lol

[elfin cape]

Hi!
Little question @lyric pier : did you have time to think about a way to interface summon and HBFS stats? e.g. using conjuration level as a scaling parameter for HFBS change (similar to what @cunning compass mentioned previously). Sorry to ask again ^^', but with my current character heavily center around summon creature, excluding them is basically unplayable (my clannfear cannot even fight a scamp 😂 ), but having it to on make it super easy ^^'.

[tight patrol]

||This can be made trivial with FDU :3||

[lyric pier]

I thought @cunning compass was against such a scaling 😅
My main concern with this idea is that summons are already scaled: You first access low level summons which are weak and which is good for balance.
Then you access stronger summons, which are stronger, which is good too.
If I scale based on conjuration, weak skeletons will be weaker during early game, and golden saints will be stronger because at the time you can cast them, your conjuration level will be high

[lyric pier]

I'll check your mod if I add such a feature. Remind me, can it tell whether a follower is a summon?

[cunning compass]

Summons are ok IMO but if such a feature was to be implemented, Conjuration HBFS skill scaling would be the easiest solution IMO. Other ones would be more complex and harder to implement and balance.

[lyric pier]

I cannot imagine a decent scaling based on conjuration

Like, at 50 conjuration, summons get the same HBFS scaling than other actors?

At conjuration level 1 they get what?

At level 100?

[elfin cape]

I would say that should be open parameter, I know I would put something like conjuration 150 to have 100% of HBFS scaling factor, and it does not increase afterward of course

[lyric pier]

We also need a lower cap: what HBFS percent at conjuration level 1

[elfin cape]

0

[cunning compass]

% of HBFS bonus. If you turn the option on, your summons get X% bonus of whatever other actors get. It can be configurable but linear. 0 skill = 0%. 100 skill = 100%

[elfin cape]

My biggest issue with the current state is that; sure conjuration and summons are in a good spot, IF it is not "the main" skill. I need almost two full clannfear to beat a scamp currently, which is crazy expensive I feel.

[cunning compass]

yeah, I would use 0 for default

default cap for 100 skill could be 75%

and the player can change it to sth else

0-0 would be no scaling

100%-100% would be full scaling regardless of skill

actually, since the mod is called Harder Better Faster Stronger, on default the whole thing may even be turned off 😄

but it would be possible to turn it on in the options

the concept seems very simple to me

[elfin cape]

Doing another quick test, at level 21, with harder+normal scaling preset, a golden saint manage to take around 10% of the life of a storm atronach 😅 .

[lyric pier]

Ok, that makes sense, and it should be pretty easy to implement.
I think I'll use the modified conjuration (including buffs or damages)

Maybe the default should be 100-100, because non conjurers would prefer having strong summons when using a scroll or an enchanted item

Or, I'll have to detect whether the summon was spell cast, or cast with an item/scroll

Or, just say that items/scroll always are considered at conjuration level 50?

Or at a random level

[tight patrol]

All summons have unique record ids, so it's trivial

Like scamp_summon and such

So you'd need to check if they are summon and have a leader

[lyric pier]

Ah yes, thx for the reminder

[cunning compass]

or you use Enchant skill for items instead

[lyric pier]

But then there are scrolls

[cunning compass]

they can be static

they are already very powerful

anybody can use them

summon scrolls are the ones which anyone can make good use of

[lyric pier]

Agreed

But then, what level? 🙂

[cunning compass]

sth basic. 25? 50 is the max that I could see working

maybe make it configurable 😄

Scrolls Conjuration Level

default could be 25

[elfin cape]

I really love the idea of enchant having an impact on scroll! But then I would do so for all scrolls, which is probably harder to implement. But with how easy it is to have access to summon from scrolls, probably not too strong ^^'. I guess a similar questions hold for enchanted items 🤔

[cunning compass]

Enchant for items. Scrolls = static.

[lyric pier]

It could be speechcraft: How well you read it

[elfin cape]

Kind of like it to be fair! Or a daedric language skill 🙂

[stable halo]

Hello! are there any known conflicts that would affect HBFS's backwards running toggle from working? I have the setting enabled but when I switch to my weapon, I can still move backwards at full speed. Maybe CHIM 2090? I can try running without that
edit: it wasn't chim 2090

[lyric pier]

Ah yes, never tried that mod. Maybe it will work if HBFS is loaded after CHOM 2090?

[stable halo]

it wasn't that but I just confirmed that running only hbfs does have the setting work correctly so time to do a binary search of my 90 mods lol

okay the culprit was the lovely mod SIMO: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/57140

which I'm guessing is due to the feature that lets you move/automove while your inventory is open

[lyric pier]

This is weird. The backwards running feature should not conflict with anything, except when another mod, loaded after, force the running

[dry galleon]

Yeah that feature allows you to keep moving by forcing the running. I think you can turn that off in settings

[stable halo]

no worries, I was able to create a tiny patch to SIMO's script that basically puts in the backwards running feature, working so far

[lyric pier]

I think using Enchant skill to define the summon boost will provide either a double penalty or double bonus: The charge cost is already defined by Enchant.

• With low Enchant it will require a high charge cost and you'll get a weak summon
• With high Enchant: The opposite
  I'd prefer using a static HBFS bonus for both enchanted items and scrolls

Maybe 50, so it's not useless

[cunning compass]

well, static is pretty much the only real alternative in such case

static value can be customisable

[lyric pier]

I feel that the reduced enchanted item recharge frequence is still too high

when I go back to a town, repair my stuff, sleep, then all my enchanted items are already recharged

I have difficulties to use my filled soul gems

[cunning compass]

I'm definitely fine with the current values . Only the items with low charge values recharge relatively fast. Other ones take much longer and I use recharge option often. While I wouldn't say no to an even lower recharge rate, I never got the impression that it's fast ATM. As long as it's not 0 it should be ok, I guess (0 is fine only if somebody really wants to be forced to use soul gems and I don't think that engaging with this mechanic should be mandatory). It's already an optional module.

[lyric pier]

I'm working on it!

[lyric pier]

The new settings will replace the previous "exclude NPC/creature followers ones

• percent of HBFS boost applied to regular followers (NPCs and creatures)
• percent of HBFS boost applied to summons spawned with an item or scroll
• percent range of HBFS boost applied to summons casted by the player, based on his conjuration skill

0% means no HBFS boost, means the old settings disabled

[lyric pier]

I may need help to find the new settings names

Boost isn't even right, because HBFS can also nerf actors

The new settings offer a percent that alters HBFS's percent modifiers

Not easy to make it clear

[cunning compass]

.... modifier?

[stable halo]

"Proportion of HBFS settings to apply to follwer"?

[lyric pier]

Yes, but not all settings are applied, only stats ones (attributes, health, magicka, fatigue)

So, what defaults for the new settings:

• regular followers: 50%?
• casted summons: 0-75%? (from conjuration level 1 to 100) (the percent increases above conjuration 100)
• summons from items: 50%?

[tight patrol]

Item summons should probably scale with just Enchant or Enchant + Conjuration (75/25 maybe?)

I assume by 50% and 0-75% you mean +50% and +0-75%, right?

[lyric pier]

Enchant already offer a reduced charge cost. I don't this we should also improve the summon

[lyric pier]

50% means 50% of HBFS' boost

[tight patrol]

ahhhh

[tight patrol]

The same as magicka refund on successful spell casting 🧐
but giving summons a flat bonus sounds not as interesting too. Maybe the curve could just be less impactful, like 30-50 or something (though I'm saying it just for the sake of things)

[lyric pier]

Magicka refund exists only because some players really like it, but it's disabled by default, and too generous IMHO

[tight patrol]

gotcha

I just have not the best experience playing with Bound Balance which rendered bound items from enchantments useless, since they scaled purely with Conjuration without taking Enchant into account at all (it seems to be changed already, cool)

[cunning compass]

It's now Conjuration or Enchant. Guess that it's response to feedback.

[lyric pier]

summons can be very OP, and I cannot find any valid reason someone not versed in conjuration would be able to summon strong summons

enchant feels unrelated to me

it may make sense if the enchant skill contributed during the item creation

and if I added an enchant contribution, then what would we do with scrolls?

[cunning compass]

Scrolls should be static

That's their point

[lyric pier]

exactly: Same goal, but different result

suppose scrolls provide 50%, and items a range 25-75%, then players would use scrolls until their enchant is high enough?

[tight patrol]

cough cough

[lyric pier]

here I'm only considering the player's followers

[lyric pier]

In any case, I think conjuration should provide stronger summons than enchant

[lyric pier]

what are your suggested values?

• summon from enchant: from 0 to 50 or 75% of HBFS boost?
• summon from conjuration: from 0 to 75%?
• summon from scroll: 50%?

[tight patrol]

scrolls are definitely static
summons from enchant should probably be less powerful than conjuration (since it's a multitool)

I would say that in theory, these values sound fine

• summon from enchant: from 0 to 50%
• summon from conjuration: from 0 to 75%
• summon from scroll: 50%

But I can't say anything about practice, since I don't play with summons very often 🤔

[lyric pier]

why not.
This means that enchant will be weaker than scrolls unless you reach level 100

not really rewarding I think

but, scroll are consumed, while enchanted items can be recharged

so, why not

conjuration could be: 25-75%

[tight patrol]

It would be easier to judge if we could visualize these stats with some kind of mockup

Maybe on a Scamp as an example for 0-25-50-75% HBFS boost

[lyric pier]

yeah

hmmm wait, I don't think I have a trigger for item charge usage

I may not be able to differenciate scrolls from items

and I don't want to constantly check the player's inventory for scroll consumption, or all the equiped enchanted item charges

[cunning compass]

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/57820 this mod has skill checks for items and one optional file has scroll uncapper so some sort of detection is possible

[lyric pier]

you're always here when you can give me more work 🙂

there is a way!

(no mandalorian please)

[cunning compass]

damn it, you know me too well

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-star-wars-gif-7131421628894903427

🤡

[lyric pier]

Seems to work now!

remains the doc, settings doc, and more tests

[lyric pier]

is it clear? Any feedback? 🙂

[cunning compass]

if the % continues to increase past skill lvl 100, then there needs to be info about max value or cap settings. If max is 100%, then it should simply be stated somewhere.

and what is "Actual"? Is it the % you get with your current skill?

[lyric pier]

Yes it continue above. It is mentioned

Yes actual is the final scaled value

[cunning compass]

I mean the max value.

"To" is not max here

so what's the max?

[lyric pier]

Max of the range setting or the actual value?

[cunning compass]

Max value which can be reached. What if I have 1000 skill? What I have 200?

[lyric pier]

There is no max currently

with conjuration 1000, 150% strength, summon range from 0 to 75%, you'll get 750% of HBFS settings, which should provide 375% strength

should I cap at 100% of HBFS bonus?

do we need another setting for the cap?

[cunning compass]

Cap would be ok and default 100%.

[lyric pier]

I think it's done!
@elfin cape could you test this version and tell me whether everything works as expected?
You can enable HBFS' logs to get details on stats changes.

[tight patrol]

Don't know if this in the spirit of the mod, but... It might be an interesting concept on its own 🧐

[elfin cape]

Hummm, it does not seem to work currently sadly, no change at all on the creature summon. Here is the log when summoning e.g. a ancestral ghost:

[08:44:49.719 E] Global[scripts/hbfs/global.lua] onActorActive failed. Lua error: [string "scripts/hbfs/config/settings.lua"]:51: attempt to index local 'scaledSettings' (a nil value)
[08:44:49.719 E] stack traceback:
[08:44:49.719 E] [string "scripts/hbfs/config/settings.lua"]:51: in function 'getActorSettings'
[08:44:49.719 E] [string "scripts/hbfs/global.lua"]:81: in function <[string "scripts/hbfs/global.lua"]:79>

[lyric pier]

Sorry for that, I think I fixed it in this new version:

[lyric pier]

Yeah, fatigue tweaks are not easy to balance. Many modders offered their version, and I finally decided to use vanilla settings.
The concept described in your post seems appealing though.

[elfin cape]

It seems to be working perfectly! Thank you!

[lyric pier]

Great

I'll do the release soon

[elfin cape]

I implemented something similar, on top of the magic moduler from HBFS (well, I was a bit harsher on the change here), however, I went the road of having a stronger regen due to endurance, but lowering the base regen, and increasing the impact of encumbrance. I think fatigue is really something people should change for them in the GMSTs, since we all have different preference 🙂
I want my not endurant and not strong character to require shit load of potion if they want to run around while picking everything.

(a mod allowing to do all the tweak on the fly would be nice now that I think about it)

[cunning compass]

I saw various Fatigue mods but so far I disliked sth about all of them

so I stick to Vanilla

[elfin cape]

I agree. But playing with the GMSTs until finding something which I prefer to vanilla is not that hard for me (albeit it is playthrought dependent 🙈 )

[lyric pier]

HBFS 2.8 released!

• New settings to control the portion of stat settings applied to followers
• Creatures summoned with conjuration spells get their stats scaled on the conjuration skill level
• Creatures summoned with enchanted items get their stats scaled on the enchant skill level
• Regular followers and creatures summoned with scrolls get customizable static stat portions
• Difficulty presets: Halved magic damage increase percent
• Fixed corpses' equipment degraded even when the feature is disabled
• Fixed rare harmless bug on cell loading
• Code improvements

[lyric pier]

HBFS 2.8.2 released!

• Added support for corpse loot degradation when corpses are containers
• Fixed submerged container loot not being degraded
• Improved loot degradation on actor death formula

[mystic spade]

My friend, I forgot. Did we ever determine if there may be overlap or conflicts with CHIM (https://dreamweave-mp.github.io/S3ctors-S3cret-St4sh/chim_2090/#dynamic-stats)

[lyric pier]

Never tried CHIM yet, so I have no idea sorry

[mystic spade]

No problem brother

[main prairie]

Hello, should I be worried about this?

[17:48:47.347 E] L@0x66f[scripts/hbfs/actor.lua] eventHandler[HBFS_set_actor_stats] failed. Lua error: [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:72: attempt to perform arithmetic on a nil value
[17:48:47.347 E] stack traceback:
[17:48:47.347 E] [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:72: in function 'detectStatsDiffs'
[17:48:47.347 E] [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:157: in function 'setStats'
[17:48:47.347 E] [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:285: in function <[string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:285>
[17:48:47.347 E] [C]: in ?
[17:48:47.348 E] L0x200000b9[scripts/hbfs/actor.lua] eventHandler[HBFS_set_actor_stats] failed. Lua error: [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:72: attempt to perform arithmetic on a nil value
[17:48:47.348 E] stack traceback:
[17:48:47.348 E] [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:72: in function 'detectStatsDiffs'
[17:48:47.348 E] [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:157: in function 'setStats'
[17:48:47.348 E] [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:285: in function <[string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:285>
[17:48:47.348 E] [C]: in ?

I have a ton of mods installed so probably a conflict somewhere... this is loaded at the bottom of the list btw

[lyric pier]

No worries, but the impacted actor won't get his stats boosted

I'll check that when I can

[main prairie]

thank you mym!

[lyric pier]

I checked the code, and I cannot explain your error unless there was a previous error. Did you kept the full log? Can you reproduce?

[tight patrol]

Got this error after going into an exterior. Probably harmless, but still

[01:39:56.245 E] L0x7016649[scripts/hbfs/actor.lua] onInactive failed. Lua error: [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:72: attempt to perform arithmetic on a nil value
[01:39:56.245 E] stack traceback:
[01:39:56.245 E]        [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:72: in function 'detectStatsDiffs'
[01:39:56.245 E]        [string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:217: in function <[string "scripts/hbfs/actor.lua"]:210>
[01:39:56.245 E]        [C]: in ?

[lyric pier]

Thx! And sorry for the delay. I'd need the full openmw.log the next time it happens

I suspect a previous error causing this one

unless you confirm there was none

[lyric pier]

HBFS 2.8.5 released!

• Improved performances in crowded places

I could not improve the performances of this mod as much as I did for Fair Care or Take Cover, because the mod impacts every actors in any situation. Custom scripts being added and removed constantly (on active/inactive) would not help with the performances.

The noticeable improvement I did was to prevent the actor script to load all the settings, and instead I send the relevant ones from the global script, with events, when the actor becomes active.

[lyric pier]

Also, in a recent update, I made sure no data were saved for inactive actors

[mystic spade]

Thank you, Mym

[cunning compass]

I just like seeing "improved performance" in the changelog.

Although I only noticed big save files before. Performance diff with and without HBFS wasn't big.

I also like everything that can be installed mid-game, although with LUA mods it's usually less of a problem than with content mods 😄

[lyric pier]

there are different challenges

[mystic spade]

Really appreciate the hard work updating these three essential mods