#modding-approval-discussion

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

zealous pulsar
opal island
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i hope so

stuck spear
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That'd be nice.

lavish eagle
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mboi 👍

lavish eagle
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I gotta bring this up again.. Cause I still feel it's been wrongly placed in Sandbox.. https://drg.mod.io/barley-for-sale I originally downloaded this to have a money sink.. I would love to balance out my game so I have a harder time promoting and such, I've already requested a mod that would increase resource costs. But for now I hope to rely on Barley for sale, I barely ever use them anyways, and they don't really make it any easier as barleys are given out willy nilly anyways, at least request it to cost 20k 30k 100k.. I don't care, just anyway to quickly drain credits. I wanted to originally use it and it made my save a sandbox save.. I wouldn't mind this.. but the game forces to me to have a main save which I don't want.. As soon as I progress any further on a save.. that old one is dead to me.

unknown.png
mod.io
Barley for sale mod for Deep Rock Galactic

lets you buy the bulbs at the shop

lavish eagle
mellow summit
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It's not rocket science. If it affects unmodded clients then it doesn't go in verified

lavish eagle
mellow summit
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It's not the effect of the mod, it's the scope of it

lavish eagle
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Any of the above mods doesn't provide you DIRECTLY with in game items. Accessibility = Easier access for some of us with way to quick hands and jazz, like me. So that covers the pipeline, barleys for sale = swap for credits which you already have to get either way, brighter fossils is also good, cause a lot of people can't see those dang things very well compared to something like hollomite which spawns all over the place = easy grabs, fossils provide the same xp.

unknown.png
full briar
neat scaffold
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If the mod affects gameplay, it doesn't belong in verified. End of discussion.

lavish eagle
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And again.. How does it affect gameplay?

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I can easily see ways for this to affect gameplay too

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Usually those pesky vines hides those precious fossils..

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hmm

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this too

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How exactly does that differ?

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End of discussion not applied, sorry.

green talon
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Pipeline radius gave you something you could use in any lobby you join, and let you repair pipes out of the range of enemies. It's not respecting the host decision to run a vanilla lobby when people can join with that change, it makes sense for the mod to be approved

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Simpler azure weald/hollow bough was to help framerates, they are the most complex biomes. Vines in azure weald were kept in because them blocking vision was seen as a gameplay element

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Brighter objects is quite strong too, that might make more sense for approved also

lavish eagle
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Ahh finally an actual helpful answer! Though I disagree with removing the visual parts, cause that does mean a lot for the overall gameplay here

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I can see the whole pipeline as I haven't tried to abuse it

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So I didn't know about that part

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It definitely impacts it for me a lot, cause I don't know how many missions where I didn't get the secondaries because of them being blocked by vines, grass and so on

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But again those ARE verified

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I've questioned a lot of the approved ones in the past too

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There are flaws here.. quite a few

blissful bison
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it’s because it is quite literally in the wrong category

lavish eagle
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I didn't talk about it being op

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someone else did

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Again someone is verifying these

blissful bison
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nobody needed to talk about it past reporting like a week ago

lavish eagle
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I literally just asked why

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no one answered right until Masala did, just a simple straight forward answer.. In the "discussion tab"

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I found it easier cause a lot of the time I would just speed up and get thrown out the airlock trying to repair it or stop

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so I simply didn't try and cheat with it, so I wouldn't know

blissful bison
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the answer to your unnecessary question is also above from two weeks ago

lavish eagle
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unnecessary?

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wat

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it's a discussion tab.. are you high?

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I'm not gonna scroll back 2 weeks...

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who the heck is gonna do that

blissful bison
lavish eagle
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again are you high?

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that's not 2 weeks

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it's right above..

blissful bison
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the answer from loan was from one day prior

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my bad I guess

lavish eagle
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okay

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Alright.. we're good. :)

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But i am high though

sharp maple
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I hope the heat meter reticle is verified/approved soon

coral zealot
opal island
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It's xmas and the devs are on break, so be patient

coral zealot
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THE HEAT CROSSHAIR MOD GOT VERIFIED WOOOOOOOO

craggy totem
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I think that the Brighter Objects mod (https://drg.mod.io/brighter-objects) should be Approved instead of Verified. If you look at the preview pictures on the mod page itself, along with some comparison pictures I took myself (https://imgur.com/a/tyELMwD), you can see how significantly easier it is to see resources no matter how far they are.

This mod dramatically changes gameplay to the point that it renders Scout's flaregun or even the dwarves' own throwable flares obsolete when it comes to finding many of the resources. It makes it so you can see resources, such as fossils or morkite, even in a completely unlit cave. Most of the time, it's actually easier to see the resources in an unlit cave with this mod on. In a way, I think it is equivalent to the flashlight mods (which are Approved) and I would even say it is easier to spot resources with this mod compared to the flashlight mods. This makes it so completing objectives and therefore the mission is easier as you spend significantly less time trying to find said resources. This mod completely negates the "darkness" element/challenge on finding resources (whether it's the primary/secondary objectives or craftable materials) in a mission.

Having played around with this mod for a bit now; previously, I would always dread any mission with the fossil secondary objective as I always have to force myself to play Scout to ensure we have light to find all the fossils in a cave. However, now I have complete confidence going into any fossil mission as a non-Scout class and actually be the one to find most of the fossils because I can see them from across the cave even with no Scout flares. I can basically go to any mission with no flares/Scout with this mod and still be able to find resources just as well (sometimes even better) as I would have if we had Scout flares lighting up the cave. It provides me more information than the game intended compared to others in my lobby without the mod.

full briar
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Yeah, I already tried to talk with the mod creator about it and they defended it as a way for people with impaired vision to be able to play the game. While nice, that kind of completely disregards the "global" rules that mods are supposed to be categorized by and makes it unfair to other mod creators.

craggy totem
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I understand the case of helping people with impaired vision. I would say you could argue that for a 1.1x - 2x flashlight mod. But I think that Brighter Objects mod is not just making things a little bit easier to see, imo it's straight up "xray" or "night" vision mode when it comes to finding resources. It's a really significant difference with vs without the mod.

full briar
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No doubt, that was my first thought with the original images.

ripe tinsel
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I mean it can still help folks with impaired vision as an approved mod. That’s a pretty weak argument for keeping it verified.

full briar
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The general thought process when it comes to mods is that verified is always better than approved as people can use it without being marked and not having to toggle it all the time. Plus like jack all for people actually matchmake for approved mod lobbies.

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Most people running approved mods get no random people joining even after literal hours of waiting. One of the main reasons for that is just the clustertruck that the mod system is with enabling random mods after joining a lobby so you just get stacked with random stuff you don't want and there is currently no tag for mods that only the host needs so that clients don't need to download everything in the list.

digital bluff
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It can't really speed up mission times that much.

blissful bison
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does it effect anyone other than the person using it?

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I fail to see how the mod being “unbalanced” or whatever would place it in another category?

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the differences between approved and verified have nothing to do with balance right?

nimble valley
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Yeah it only really affects the user so don't really see why it seems so cheaty to some.

full briar
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The mod itself breaks the guidelines the devs setup and enforce other mods with.

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Reason why I consider it a cheat is that all QoL things aside, it makes finding resources and objectives easier than vanilla and therefore affects the progression system that they care so much about (a lot of mods get declined for that reason). If this mod is verified then flashlight mods should be too because it helps the visually impaired.

Screenshot_20220103-112850_Firefox.jpg
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Constant player outlines.

warped obsidian
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Just for the sake of adding to the discussion -- there is arguably a point to be made for those with legitimate visual impairment, in which making it approved would then limit said players who could legitimately have a need for it only able to play solo or with hosts who agree to have the mod installed (i.e. their friends circle perhaps), therefore potentially putting them at an impasse if they want to play in public games/LFG/etc.

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And likewise, other players who might not want to use the mod in the same lobby as this hypothetical individual would essentially be required to have it installed, if I'm correctly remembering how approved mods function
(please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that last bit)

forest flint
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Brighter Objects being tagged as verified is fair. https://drg.mod.io/brighter-objects
Approved would not make any sense. Maybe some light adjustments could be tweaked but this has nothing to do with the core problem.

Originally the objects did not have a own light source so an external light source (flashlight...) was needed to make the objects visible. The developers figured out this caused some problems.
First, players missed some mission resources (Ebonut is a good candidate) and had to research the complete map again to complete the missions. Because everything was already marked as explored at the scanner. This was no fun even if the darkness is a key part of the game.
Gunk Seeds were a even bigger problem. Without a scout it was not possible to find them when they spawn at a place a flashlight could not reach them and light them up.

Second, Deep Rock Galactic has a good game design because no class needs each other but if they work together they be more efficient.
For example if you want to reach a higher area. Engineer uses his platforms, Driller drills a tunnel, gunner uses zipline and the scout uses his grappling hook. But if they team up they use the method which is the best for each situation.
Now, if objects are complete dark, the scout is a must have class for almost every mission.

So developers added a own light source to every object. Now they are visible without an external light source. First, players can avoid the painful map research, second scout is not a must have class. Also his flare gun is still useful. Even if you see resources he can help you light up the area around to collect it.
(1/2)

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But even with the own light source developers added some patches ago, some players still have problems to see the resources. The Brighter Objects mod take the existing light component and increases it with the goal to make the resources visible without and external light source. The same goal the developers had when they added the light source to the resources.
Even player without the mod can see every resource without light them up (same graphic settings). Mod players still need to keep their eyes open and explore everything. If you found a resource you need to reach the place where the resource is. Flashlight and flare gun is still useful. Do not forget to find Nitra, game events, cosmetics and so on. The problem is not the little time you could eventually save with the mod. It is the additional time you need to invest if you can not find the resources and research everything again without the help of the scanner.

Dystrum, Gold and Nitra are different. Because they do not have a own light source. They need an external light source to be visible. If a mod would add a light source to one of them it has to be approved. Because developers do not want them to be visible in darkness. Also mod users would see things which non mod users would not see without an external light source.

The tricky part is to find the perfect light level for the resources. They should be good visible but not punch out to much to ruin the game atmosphere. But as already said at the beginning this has nothing to do with the core problem. There are only two options, you see the objects without an external light source or not. The rest is fine tuning. Otherwise the added light source (devs) would not make sense and needed to be removed which would cause the problems above.
The mod does not make it unfair, it makes it fair. Even if the light adjustments are not perfect. (2/2)

opal island
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perhaps, rather than recategorization, the light could be toned down to be not so dramatic for many resources while still being brighter than default

full briar
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So the tldr is that things glow already so people can already see them with average eyes and the mod makes it even brighter to make it viable for bad eyes.

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That's good and all but it doesn't match the rules the devs enforce on other mod creators.

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Flashlight mods should be verified since they help the player trying to find resources and use their eyes in general as it is generally easier to find them while not in the dark and then they can use that mod too since it is verified.

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But at that point I should have made let there be light be verified instead of manually assigning it sandbox.

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I do like the fact that they decide to bend the category depending on the mod though, it has let some interesting stuff slip by.

forest flint
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In general flashlight affects everything around and not just a specific element which should be visible in darkness anyway (BO).

shy sapphire
ripe tinsel
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That’s the purpose of sandbox. It’s for community made debugging tools or for screwing around.

shy sapphire
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But let there be light doesn't have to be sandboxed, so going through multiple menus and loading when unnecessary is annoying

ripe tinsel
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You do realize banagement was being facetious right? Or more accurately that’s how it appeared. He’s pointing out the slippery slope of folks wanting the occasional bent category rule to become permanent.

shy sapphire
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Facetious or not, I don't see how let there be light belongs in the sandbox category.

ripe tinsel
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I hope you’re not being serious.

shy sapphire
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I would say that brighter objects actually aids in finding objects to complete the mission far more than let there be light as it literally makes secondary objects stand out like a sore thumb in the dark.

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The devs have justified cheaper nitra costs being in approved because they don't greatly reduce the progression grind. Combine 40 nitra resupplies with https://drg.mod.io/driller-for-starship-troopers and you don't have to ever worry about nitra ever again. I'd consider that far more egregious progression wise than not having to press F throughout the mission.

shy sapphire
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I dug up the quote I'm referencing above:

We should mention that the vast majority of mods so far do not fall into the Sandbox category. Some change gameplay elements, such as the cost to order Supply Pods or the ammo count for your guns, and you will find these mods in the Approved category. This has been discussed widely, both within the team and with the community. We do not consider these cheats, and this is why:

  • Most of these mods are used in conjunction with other mods, like lowering the cost of resupply but increasing the enemy cap. The intent is usually not to make the game easier but to provide options for a different experience.
  • Making the game moderately easier is a very inefficient way to boost your progression; you still have to go through the mission loop. Improving your win percentage is not comparable to spawning millions of gold in a mission.
  • Some of these mods improve accessibility, such as increasing visibility. And yes, you could technically get an advantage with these mods. But the same reasoning applies. It is not a very efficient way of boosting your progression.
  • If you use these mods to get an advantage in missions, you are more likely to be bored as you make the game easier than intended. We have spent a lot of time tweaking the game to be as engaging as possible.
    https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/548430/view/2952660442222371926
    Changing light doesn't significantly affect the game loop and therefore doesn't need to be sandboxed.
full briar
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Danger. Dwarves.

sly trail
viscid ivy
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hi, I'm having trouble with progression using approved mods, does it disable some achievements?

zealous pulsar
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approved mods disable achievements yes

viscid ivy
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bruh! but on their steam mod update it says that it doesn't disable progression, right?

blissful bison
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“APPROVED (As in Approved for Progression)”

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if only we could cite that page

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unfortunately most everything said there is a total lie/doesn’t actually apply

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“Note: You can not unlock achievements while playing with Approved Mods enabled.”

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it does say this tho

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but I was moreso complaining about their approval guidelines that seemingly have no pull in the category mods are placed in

viscid ivy
blissful bison
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it’s quite hidden tbh

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maybe this is linked in the steam post though?

viscid ivy
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well, I just spent 2 weeks and was wondering why am I not getting any new achievements lol

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Although some mods as mineral scatter should be idk in "verified"

blissful bison
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yeah idk they let you spawn infinite nitra for infinite xp but they won’t let you get the achievement for dancing and making a toast

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oh well ig

blissful bison
viscid ivy
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welp

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time to run all over the map to get "scattered" minerals now

heady mica
viscid ivy
agile iron
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Can the Class Starship Trooper mods get approved? K thx.

blissful bison
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link?

somber granite
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y

blissful bison
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  1. bad english
  2. the devs need to know what mod this dude wants approved and
  3. it’s probably just some dumb cheaty stat enhancement you don’t actually need
subtle lodge
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I think it's a mod that like triples bug spawn rate or something

blissful bison
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they’re all ridiculous

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this is the worst one

main matrix
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Bruh why increase damage on the flare gun to 200

forest robin
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Flare gun 🙂

heady mica
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hope this gets approved, would like to try it in a party

ruby timber
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My take on the "for starship troopers" is just that, make em approved when they're paired with high enemy counts or hazard 6 and 7

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Keep them sandbox when they aren't

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I do hate that engineer for ST got unapproved not that long ago tho

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Pistolero is still "aimed for approved" as well after a few weeks as well

main matrix
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Alternatively, it could have a forced dependency on the starship troopers mod itself so that it can't be used outside of it? I dunno, I just think that it would be hard to implement a system where if a query is fulfilled, it is an approved mod, else it's a sandbox mod.

burnt sleet
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pp

heady mica
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Personally i dont see the point of playing a higher difficulty mod if you’re just going to super buff the classes anyway

blissful bison
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^^^^

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all enemies have 10% more health but you deal 10% more damage wow so much more difficult

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in my personal opinion all the “rebalance” mods should be sandboxed

ruby timber
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its not about difficulty, its about satisfaction
tldr: hehehe many bugs go squish

heady mica
heady mica
blissful bison
ruby timber
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I also have active enemies set between 250 and 500

rose fox
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Hey all, and sorry for not being more active in this channel, the Playstation launch required a lot of focus...
The discussions here have been really helpful in adapting the guidelines and figuring out where they need to be reviewed.

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We're looking into bringing more community members into the actual mod approval process. That means in practice helping out determining the category for new mods, and help review guidelines as we go forward to make sure they stay relevant. If you want to help out you can PM me or @wanton plank , then we can add you to relevant discussion channels and as moderators in the Modio project

wanton plank
prisma laurel
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Just a thought here, but would it be better with only two categories? Verified or sandbox. I just don't see the point of having an in-between-caregory, or am I missing something painfully obvious here?

dim quartz
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verified is usually for client-side only mods that don't affect anyone else in the lobby

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approved is for game modifying mods that change how weapons, perks, or items work

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like x5 flashlight length or toothpaste platgun

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sandbox is for fucking around with ridiculous shit

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like detonators that delete the entire cave

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or godmode with a spawnmenu

rose fox
heady mica
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hope this gets approved soon 🥺

trail blaze
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i wish there were a lot more sound mods in verified

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i just want my resupply pod to say "ayo the pizza here" you know?

ripe tinsel
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I mean if something doesn’t exist, nothing is stopping you from suggesting it to modders or making it yourself.

opal island
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90% of them are there and not in the "verified" section

vestal meadow
thick yarrow
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Also annoying how it sometimes takes 3 days for some mods to be approved or verified

full briar
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3 days is lucky, some are from like half a year ago with no category.

rose fox
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If you spot a mod that has an 'AimedFor' tag that you think is taking too long, do post it here. We go through the 'aimedFor' categories every weekday. Also, we should have the mod.io moderator role in place asap 🙂

ruby timber
rose fox
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That mod already received a Sandbox category, the owner/creator must have added the AimedFor tag again without writing any changes in the description or letting us know

ruby timber
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The last two updates, 1.6 and 1.7, they mentioned it the file name instead of the change log, might've been a lil lazy to make a full changelog

ripe tinsel
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Needs to be in the description and accurately reflect the mod.

cunning zinc
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Updated stats included in screenshots, they are actual to new version

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Or they should be in mod description?

ripe tinsel
cunning zinc
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I make a detailed description when i get PC access

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And dig deeply into all i made

thick yarrow
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Why were some mods even approved in the first place tbh

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Like the ____ for sTaRsHIP tRoOpErS

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They were just blatent op buffs for classes so why were the originally approved only to be unapproved later

ripe tinsel
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care to provide examples?

blissful bison
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except they’re sandboxed so idk

opal island
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They were approved previously

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Then got swapped to sandbox

thick yarrow
blissful bison
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same reason any rebalance mod is approved, according to their guidelines the mods should be approved

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the problem wasn’t with whoever approved them, the guidelines aren’t the greatest atm

ripe tinsel
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If a mod doesn’t receive the approval category requested, the author needs to follow the guidance outlined on mod.io for getting their mod reevaluated.

thick yarrow
rose fox
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Pinning DRG mod.io guidelines and approval process here
https://drg.mod.io/guides/approval-process-and-checklist-for-upload
https://drg.mod.io/guides/mod-guidelines-and-status-categories

mod.io
Deep Rock Galactic APPROVAL PROCESS AND CHECKLIST FOR WHEN YOU UPLO...

This guide describes how the Approval Process works, what mods are reviewed and what mods are not, and a checklist of things to consider/remember/add when uploading a mod.

mod.io
Deep Rock Galactic GUIDELINES, MOD TYPES AND APPROVAL CATEGORIES

This guide includes our General Guidelines. description of Types and of the 3 Approval Categories with guidelines for how we determine which one to assign a given mod.

wanton plank
junior vault
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if my save file is approved mods will that show up in server list as approved mods even if i dont have any installed?

blissful bison
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xd

opal island
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What's the issue exactly? What guideline do you feel this violates?

blissful bison
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“Mods that dramatically changes gameplay elements” for sandbox guidelines

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“Only improve stats by a significant amount”

opal island
# blissful bison “Only improve stats by a significant amount”

There was some very brief discussion about this and I wanted to let you know the devs thought process with these mods. The devs have wanted to be flexible with some approved mods if the mod in question creates an interesting experience. IRT Karl Class and All Class Traversal, yes it can be kinda "overpowered" but you can't carry literally everything on you and you can make choices for what weird or powerful kit to bring. The devs think that is cool and wanna allow it.

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That all said, I'm curious: do you think these mods should be sandboxed or do those edge cases need outlined in the guidelines better? I'm curious if the issue is with the mods or guideline consistency or both.

stuck spear
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The issue is definitely with both. Rauliken, the creator of Karl Class, was surprised to see it end up in Approved.

opal island
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Did Rauliken tag it aimed for approved when first putting the mod up? i checked and they did

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If you know

ripe tinsel
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It complies pretty solidly with the approved category.

blissful bison
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why was karl mod removed then

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or whatever it is

opal island
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it isn't?

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and it's still approved

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just not properly updated, if the comments are anything to go by

blissful bison
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then some homie in #drg-chat was making shit up

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but also lmfao that shits still approved

opal island
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They probably just got confused because several previously approved mods were moved so sandbox a while back.

blissful bison
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if removing the downsides of every single class isn’t exclusively improving stats with no drawbacks I seriously don’t know what is

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actual meme

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fix guidelines or follow the current ones

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I feel like there’s this irrational fear of making players use a “sandbox” save but in actuality there is no reason not to send people drastically altering the game to a different place than people still wanting the original or “intended” experience

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having a sandboxed save doesn’t hurt anyone, it should allow people their own place to play however you want (it’s literally called sandbox)

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I don’t see anything negative about moving mods to the sandboxed category

ripe tinsel
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fix guidelines or follow the current ones
They are being followed. It was evaluated based on their interpretation of their own guidelines and placed into approved. Keep in mind that for all intents and purposes, sandbox mods are basically sanctioned cheats for the game. Remember back in the day when you could use the konami code to give yourself lives?

opal island
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Is the concern here about progression? Since approved mods already mark lobbies and require a download?

blissful bison
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but even still that’s not really stated anywhere in your guidelines

ripe tinsel
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They're entitled to their opinion. I'm pretty sure it's going to stay approved.

blissful bison
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then change the guidelines to justify that

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still doesn’t fit these two

ripe tinsel
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Stats are unchanged on each weapon/traversal tool.
Gameplay change has been determined to not be significant.

Happy?

blissful bison
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primary weapon selection has gone from 3 -> 12 for every class

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secondary has gone from 2 -> 8 for every class

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grenades have gone from 3 -> 12 for every class

ripe tinsel
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a minigun still has the stats of a minigun. Platform launcher still launches platforms like vanilla.

blissful bison
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traversal has gone from 1 -> 4 for every class

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support has gone from 1 -> 4 on every class

opal island
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I don't think that's a good way to look at it Loan. I agree some more specificity in the guidelines could give mod users/modders a better idea of where the line is to this stuff since I can understand the interpretation here

ripe tinsel
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those aren't significant enough to warrant sandbox

blissful bison
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x

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d

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funny gunner with minigun, bc, cryos, turrets, and a grapple just killed the entire map

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it’s not significant he can just deal with every situation and never dies

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the game is just as hard

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trust me dude

ripe tinsel
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The game is as difficult (hazard-wise), it's a little easier with the mod. Progression is unchanged. The mission still takes time to complete and the benefits of the mod do not alter progression enough.

blissful bison
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hm yes I can see it being “a little” easier if the mod also cut off your hands and forced you to play with stubs

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but it doesn’t do that

opal island
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Let's calm down a little.

blissful bison
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I swear this mod was sandboxed at some point anyways

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and now it’s like “ok”

opal island
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mod.io has no history for that kind of stuff and Rauliken the author talks about it being approved months ago on the modding server so 🤷‍♀️

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Looks like it's been approved for a long while to me

ripe tinsel
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It's presently approved and Void provided a paraphrased reason direct from Alex as to why it's approved.

blissful bison
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no actually that was for the mod that only does 10% of what karl class does

opal island
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No, that was about Karl Class too

blissful bison
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karl class wasn’t mentioned until after your response

ripe tinsel
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The original reply in closed discussion was directed at both.

opal island
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He was talking about both 😩

blissful bison
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👍

jade raven
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Karl Class is honestly fine where it's at tbh, half or more of the people I see playing with it are using close enough to default loadouts as to make no difference or they're running such absurdly inefficient loadouts that they have to resort to the pick half the time, so I think it evens out.
Just gives people more options to have fun with the game without having a 'I finish the mission with max earnings in five seconds' button.

blissful bison
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found as many mods as I could that do almost exactly what the “[CLASS] for starship troopers” mods did (which are now sandboxed)

ripe tinsel
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https://drg.mod.io/better-driller-primaries
I approved it. It complies with approved guidance.

https://drg.mod.io/fast-paced-dwarves
Still complies with approval guidance.

https://drg.mod.io/better-gunner-primaries
Still complies with approval guidance.

https://drg.mod.io/overclock-tweaks
Will share with the other moderators.

https://drg.mod.io/slightly-better-minigun
Still complies with approval guidance.

https://drg.mod.io/uberclock-stubby-smg
Will share with the other moderators.

https://drg.mod.io/fatboy-ammo-penalty-removal
Will share with the other moderators.

https://drg.mod.io/slightly-better-scout
Still complies with approval guidance.

https://drg.mod.io/doretta-75-damage-resistance
Will share with the other moderators.

https://drg.mod.io/engineer-for-starship-troopers
Sandbox due to only significant stat increases without a difficulty dependency.

blissful bison
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after

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"Sandbox due to only significant stat increases without a difficulty dependency."

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its like just 50% better period

opal island
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That's what he's saying

blissful bison
#

I’m saying better driller primaries fits that exact reasoning

opal island
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Oh I didn't see the better driller link in the middle.

blissful bison
#

fixed readability

blissful bison
#

@ripe tinsel soooooo what happened?

ripe tinsel
#

I've been busy with closed testing and my job.

blissful bison
#

is it not just a case of dropping the link somewhere?

rocky flower
ripe tinsel
ripe tinsel
#

So after looking over swarm size control, while I can't guarantee that players won't just leave it at the default swarm size, I think being that pedantic is pointless. If swarm size control is listed as a dependency I see no reason why it can't be listed as approved. That being said, I'd much prefer if its dependency was Starship Troopers as that's what the mod is presumably balanced around.

rocky flower
# ripe tinsel So after looking over swarm size control, while I can't guarantee that players w...

I saw a .. comment? (on drg.mod.io ) with Banagement that perhaps dependency logic was being looked at.. eg; "requires this, OR that, OR that" .. because for me, starship troopers is too easy, and startshiptroopers elite only effects haz5 (where I like to play haz4 to get people to join before deciding to move to haz5)..

So perhaps need to wait for that functionality?

All I can say is; scout is obviously lacking in tools for aoe // bug swarms like the other classes. (Note; Not saying scout has NO aoe, just that its sustained AOE for large bug swarms, especially involving mixed large units, is.. less than the others). And the 'Slightly Better Scout' mod is just not quite enough for 3x+ bug swarms with larger stationary pool sizes.

.. if it can be said for sure, then I'll start pestering the maker of 'Scout for SST' mod to do it, but I don't want to bother someone out of the blue for a possibility.

Side note; if Swarm Size Control had a minimum modifer of something like 2x (which is what starship troopers has, as well as nerfs to haz5 damage to bring them down to haz4 levels), would that make it more viable as a dependency for difficulty related adjustment mods (such as Scout for Starship Troopers)?

@twin fog (just tying you into the convo here as it involves your SSC mod)

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Addendum; I believe it is NBC's (author of Swarm Size Control) intention to have 'presets' within SSC to duplicate Starship Troopers and Starship Troopers Elite, effectively making SSC both of those mods as well as many other options.

full briar
#

Yeah, it is a known issue and is being looked at but no guarantees it'll be fixed in S2.

ripe tinsel
#

Additional dependency requirements would be nice, but aren’t doable at this time. Too complex and time consuming.

rocky flower
ripe tinsel
#

If scout for starship troopers had swarm size control marked as a dependency I'd likely change the category of scout for starship troopers back to approved. That's without the minimum modifier. Having a minimum would not adversely affect that.

rocky flower
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@teal raven ^ the discussion referenced in your mods comment section

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@ripe tinsel Brief followup query; is having 'duplicates' of a mod, with different dependencies, acceptable? or would that be spammy and annoying? (Eg; Scout for SST, Scout for Swarm Control, Scout for SST Elite, etc etc etc..)

ripe tinsel
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The ideal solution would be multiple OR dependencies. Having duplicate mods with different dependencies is probably the least worst option right now. As long as the entire front page isn't filled with one specific mod.

bleak dawn
jade raven
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Tbh, if you wanted to go further with something like that and keep classes relevant/useful, perhaps give all Dwarves access to every weapon with an unlock assignment and payment for each class to get their copy, and then have a unique upgrade tree for the same weapon for each class.
Going for class specific OCs per weapon is probably way excessive but something like that could probably integrate the idea of Karl Class well, but I’m not a smart man or one who has say in that process, just an idea.

bleak dawn
#

Personally I think the whole progression argument for the mod approval thing is also a flimsy complaint by whiny little leaf lovers given A: Coop Only No PVP one player cannot gain an advantage over an other because there is no conflict and B: anyone who wants to maintain vanilla progression has every right to not join modded games its pretty damn obvious if a server has mods so there is no excuse for accidentally joining one. I mean the only potential issue is achievements but those can be disabled when mods are active pretty eaisly

shy sapphire
wooden vector
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Its legit people whining that others dont want to play like they do

blissful bison
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I shoot every time I see an enemy

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you queued up wanting to shoot some bugs

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you literally cannot because I am ruining the game for you

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it’s the same thing but on a lesser scale, balance is still important in pve otherwise it’s not fun for anyone

maiden warren
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Well, if it's a modded game then I can just not join that game and continue shooting bugs

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If that player is getting faster progression due to that mod then it doesn't impact my gameplay

shy sapphire
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That's like joining hazard 1 and then complaining there are no bugs.

blissful bison
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did you like misread or something

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and even if you did why are you asking questions about a hypothetical

bleak dawn
# blissful bison you literally cannot because I am ruining the game for you

This argument is largely invalid as simply improving the server browser to provide more info about servers with and without mods and better filtering would eliminate the issue you are describing by allowing you to GASP not join the modded servers there is no reason to segregate them to the level they do and I don't think they should make it harder on modded players because of lacking matchmaking info and people are too lazy to read server info

#

The arguement about messing with save files is also rendered invalid by the games own inbuilt save manager which automatically keeps multiple backups If someone accidentally joins a server that does something to their save they can roll back to before the mission with minimal issue assuming the game actually was better about explaining that this feature exists in the first plce

blissful bison
#

how much more do you need them to explain the huge tab that contains all your saves and backups in an extremely organized way

wooden vector
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Far too many people just cold launch games and never even consider settings menus

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The amount of people who come in here asking about lost saves with no idea the restore save feature exists should be your first clue.

But at the same you cant really fault the game for it. There could be a flashing neon sign and people will just not look at it.

tardy needle
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^^ scam link do not click this

junior vessel
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Just testing if I got my icon

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Nup, alrighty. The sprout is cute anywho

naive shuttle
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The mod system its failing

IMG_20220501_002810730.jpg
wooden vector
unique grove
#

But that might be a ModHub issue - it lets you put numbers out of default range

shy sapphire
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it's the same interface as the previous version of the mod so that must have always been possible; i'll add bounds to the text field

ripe tinsel
unique grove
lilac dock
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Just an honest question, is there a taboo about making WIP mods public? I'm trying out a mod-with-weekly-updates idea, and I'm wondering if there might be a hesitancy to review since it will get new features semi-consistently?

ripe tinsel
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There's nothing that prohibits mods from receiving continuous updates that add to the existing mod. That being said, the existing system wasn't really designed around mods receiving content updates, just maintenance patches. The prevailing process right now is your initial upload gets reviewed. After that it's up to the community to bring it to the moderators attention should a mod update violate the established guidelines after initial acceptance.

lilac dock
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Okay, thank you.
Speaking of the guidelines, I've heard about the 50% rule for Approved mods, does that not apply to older mods? For example, let's say a new mod I want to make clashes with an old mod that already exists, but the old mod does not meet the guidelines in terms of the 50% rule. Are we not allowed to copy that mod's function (in addition to the rest of our mod) since it would then break the 50% rule?

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For example, let's use the 5x Flashlight mod. It's the 2nd-most popular mod for DRG. But it clashes with any other mod that touches the BP_PlayerCharacter file, which handles a lot of other functions. Would it be approved to include the 5x flashlight into a mod that only buffs other areas by 50% since the mod otherwise already exists?

opal island
#

I believe that 50% rule is more about weapon stats and things like that than stuff like the flashlight. The 5x Flashlight part would always be approved.

ripe tinsel
#

For now anyways. Guidance on light sources is not particularly clear at this point in time. Be aware that as it becomes defined, mods out of compliance may no longer remain approved. It depends entirely on what gets placed in the guidance.

lilac dock
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I immediately start getting threats for ratting out the 5x flashlight
Okay, thanks for y'all's input.

lavish eagle
#

Make this an actual feature please

pastel heath
wooden vector
opal island
# pastel heath Hello, i would to talk about 3 of my mods that didnt got the approved tag, what ...

There is some an on-going discussion among the approval peeps about More Rare Encounters. The original version is Approved but there's discussion about its compliance with guidelines going forward. Were you not contacted on mod.io or discord when they assigned it Sandbox?

As to the other two, I thought they were both hidden and being worked on/not used but I can go ahead and take a look at them a little later today. My apologies for the mistake on thinking the live one was hidden.

pastel heath
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i didnt got any messages and so i hopped to get here some answer ^^

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they simply for me and my friends not for all

opal island
#

Well I apologize, it's good practice to message people when they fail to get the approval status they aimed for. I'll keep you abreast of the discussion on Rare Encounters and will look at the other two mods later today when I've got the time. Feel free to ping or message me if you have other concerns or questions.

pastel heath
opal island
pastel heath
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like to show that you rly wrote this and such stuff

opal island
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yeah I like the solid email like chains on mod.io, solid record of interaction with each user about what thing

pastel heath
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i understand you and thats fine :D

full briar
vivid cave
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Y'know, is there some specific reason Approved mods don't let you get achievements? Just feels like a weird and arbitrary restriction that discourages modding, especially since in GSG's own words, Approved mods change the game "not to a degree we consider 'cheating'". You can still do Deep Dives, get Overclocks, get crafting minerals, and do your assignments all the same with Approved mods, and it's considered completely acceptable, why are achievements a no-go? Surely anything that'd make achievement hunting instant or significantly easier would be marked Sandbox by default?

pastel heath
opal island
opal island
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I've been hearing a lot of concerns from various community members about where they think the approval guidelines and approval process fail, be it being too strict or being inconsistent or unclear. I know like maybe 6 people look at this chat at any given time but if someone reads this: how do YOU feel about the approval guidelines and the approval process? what do you think needs to improve? what's unclear? what's too strict? what's too loose? what mods are not in the right category? Etc. I wanna know. Feel free to ping me on reply.

rocky flower
# opal island I've been hearing a lot of concerns from various community members about where t...

I'm definitely on the ambivalent side of things, but that may be because I'm uninformed. Can you elaborate on instances that people have said are too strict, or inconsistent?

Personally it 'seems' to be ok in that the approval process appears to follow the guidelines laid out; eg Cheaty mods are sandbox, difficulty increasing mods and QOL adjustments to make those difficulties a bit more fun are approved, and cosmetic/audio mods are verified.

opal island
# rocky flower I'm definitely on the ambivalent side of things, but that may be because I'm uni...

Certain things being in certain categories have stood out to people as inconsistent.
-Various lighting mods ranging anywhere from Verified to Sandbox for different, sometimes unclear reasons.
-Some mods with effects clients can see (like Cosmetic Restriction Remover) being Verified while others (like Restrictionless Armor Frameworks) are Approved.
-Gameplay altering stuff like Increased Pickup Radius being Verified while Hollow Bough Destructibles is Approved.
You can get an idea of why these different things got categorized differently but it's not very clear as of yet in the guidelines (though that may change with some things soon), and people comment upon such things as inconsistent, unclear, or failings of the system.

Additionally there's been some modders who've felt restricted in how they can modify weapons/tools by the approved/sandbox distinctions, while on the flip side some people feel like there are still things allowed into approved (No Fall Damage mod or 100% Health Regen for example) that fit the definition of sandbox or a "cheat" mod and there should be better control.

I wanted to know what people thought and what else felt unclear or inconsistent that I might not be aware of. I also wanted to know what people felt was miscategorized and why, as well as general feelings on how everything is currently working.

#

I edited my original message to be more clear for other people

wooden vector
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Yeah no fall damage and full heal stands out to me

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That needs a looksie imo

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And the catagories of various cosmetic mods is super inconsistent

wooden vector
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The implementation of modding is a huge waste of potential imo. It only encourages people to never use it

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And even those who do can almost never find games

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The game would have been better off not acknowledging it at all if the goal is to make it so unpleasant

rocky flower
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Using the examples given;
Lighting mods:

  • My understanding of the lighting mods is that; Anything that makes things easier to navigate or effectively replaces the need to have the flashlight on should fall under approved. (With 'let their be light' perhaps miscategorized as sandbox and should be approved)
    However, if a lighting mod is more... ethereal? or 'effect' based in order to make the games graphics look better, without specifically trying to make the game easier, it should be allowed in verified.
    I'm unsure if any 'lighting mod' should be sandbox as while it makes the game easier, you still have to get to and harvest the materials, you still have to navigate terrain, you can't see through terrain//must respect LOS. However I don't have a firm opinion on this matter, just a 'lean towards'.

Cosmetic Mods that unintentionally effect clients:

  • There definitely needs to be a firm guideline from developers on what constitutes 'effecting other players'. Small dwarf cosmetics really don't need to fall under approved and block achievements.
  • There could be an argument that an engineer shouldn't look like a gunner, and therefor any mod that unrestricts that should fall under approved/sandbox, but that needs to be a developer guideline handed down to the mod approval staff.

Cont.

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Gameplay Altering mods that sometimes fall under verified that 'effect' other clients/host:

  • Similar to above, there needs to be a guideline that determines the 'spirit of the law' when it comes to the wording of 'Effects other clients/host/players' -- EG; My understanding of the pickup radius mod is that it isn't a cheat mod, rather it normalizes the 'pickup radius' of all items to be the same as the current existing largest one. The fact that it causes everyone in the game to be able to pickup everything at that same larger radius might be odd, is likely unintentional, but is certainly not bad for the game.
  • Alternatively, Hollow Bough Destructibles, assuming it only effects the person with the mod, might feel disjointed to other players, as they can't perform the same action as the mod user. (I'm making an assumption that this is how it works, correct me if wrong), and therefor should stay as approved.
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With regards to No fall damage; I agree that a dev guideline perhaps involving wording of how 'incoming damage to players must not be restricted beyond X% for reasons Y & Z.'

The health regen mod however is so slow and requires no dmg taken for 30 seconds now, that to classify it as sandbox would be laughable. I had originally grabbed this mod back when it was 10 seconds of no dmg before regen, and even then I decided to stop using it because it just added to my mod list (which may or may not cause people to not join), and its effect was so limited. (Note; Was playing with 300% bug spawns and 500% stationary spawns)

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Part of the problem with classifying all 'cheat' mods into sandbox, is a large majority of them are designed with the intended usage of difficulty increasing mods. This tends to yield a result that is a more arcadey, active game with less downtime but better battles with bugs (rather than the current meta of effectively kiting bugs and ignoring them as much as possible)

From what I heard awhile back and on the modding server; it seems the idea is going to be to require these 'cheaty' approved mods to require a corresponding difficulty increasing mod, which seemed like a fine compromise to me. It just becomes awkward because if it requires difficulty mod X... then a person can't use it with difficulty mod Y... which might be annoying.

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And to add a comment to the users above; Yea.. this modding implementation feels like a huge headache for everyone involved. Modders are now segregated and hidden if they use any approved mods because the filters by default exclude modded games... The few people who used to try joining modded games failed enough times (due to issues with the mod dot io interface or w/e) that they've given up.

Was accidentally joining a modded game that big of a problem before?

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@opal island Sorry for the walls of text, but hopefully this is what you were looking for in terms of possible feedback.

opal island
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I understand the frustrations with the current implementation, and I share some of them as a user myself, but this approval and tagging system is likely not going anywhere. I'm more asking how the guidelines and approval process can be improved from how it is now.

opal island
rocky sable
#

Should this really be sandbox? It only modifies the salute animation for Bosco.

opal island
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It wasn't manually placed in sandbox

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it looks like it was auto-verifying and then broke

full briar
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^

rocky sable
#

Ah

opal island
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New animation tag appears to be the culprit

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just tested it

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I went ahead and manually verified

rocky sable
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Nice

round pine
#

was wondering if someone could make a mod that removes rival presence from the game? id like to have fun without any worry or being locked into playing with fire for a whole mission.

rocky flower
round pine
worn lance
quasi pilot
full briar
#

lmao

opal island
prisma orchid
quasi pilot
prisma orchid
raw dragon
#

The point about non focused shots meeting new break points is true

#

With the weak point modifier you can one shot mactera spawn and glyphid slashers for 1 ammo

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Which is a break point the devs have specifically called out as being one they don't want the weapon to hit

#

They may have just not gotten around to approving this yet, but if the balance is a concern then I would suggest rolling in the base weapon buffs with the OC

prisma orchid
raw dragon
#

Mactera spawn on haz 5 has 268 effective HP

65x3x1.4 = 273

So mathematically I believe it should meet the break point

prisma orchid
prisma orchid
raw dragon
#

Interesting idea, I always thought they should try something like that after the Lok-1 introduced a conditional weak point modifier from Executioner

prisma orchid
#

I think focus shots are too weak especially when the "hipster" exist

quasi pilot
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My approach was to nerf hipster damage and base focus rate, and buffing focus damage and buffing focus rate in the upgrade (which is mutually exclusive for hipster builds)

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So you either end up with a lower dps DMR with long charge rate (so you lose out on things like focus stun/fear)

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or build for a real punchy focus build

blissful bison
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so we take hipster and make it min clips

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genius

prisma orchid
quasi pilot
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i did both lol

opal island
brisk wolf
#

z u8

obsidian raptor
#

oh man so VRG is not Verified just Approved?

ripe tinsel
#

Pinned messages

opal island
obsidian raptor
#

Ah ok

obsidian raptor
#

Really keen to try VRG.

cunning lichen
#

Can auto verification verify mods with cues outside of og game folders? Mod literally consists only of single cue with dummied sound class and sound class mix which are verified and placed in framework, but since cue is not replacing the cue presented in game mod gets sandboxed for no good reason making whole framework idea worthless in terms of removing need for verification of mods made on verified framework.

novel birch
#

u can always try to just mesage the moderators directly?

barren geyser
obsidian raptor
#

Really rough on the edges though