deep-dive-discussion

[marble veldt]

Power attack don't care about terrain hardness

[tall meadow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/565850434376302613/1032232495913107506/unknown.png?width=1170&height=658

Fun EDD

[manic pivot]

_ _
ATTENTION MINERS!
Planet scanning is now booting up, 24 hours left until new Deep Dives!
_ _

[vital sluice]

I have enough faith in the game developers to believe that haunted cave can't trigger on black box missions

[lime meteor]

well we've been safe from that up to this point

it's waiting to jump us

[blazing cave]

final stage of the edd had a ridiculous spawnpoint for my group

[boreal ginkgo]

faith can only get you so far. i have faith that the rando driller doesnt freeze me or blow me up

but they still do

[gaunt hazel]

Anyone know any good tips for someone who hasn't done one yet

[wraith shard]

Bosco 4 lives..

[uneven lichen]

Same

[jolly hazel]

shoot

run

don't die

[lusty shuttle]

Playing Gunner can help if you know how to use shields effectively and take Medic if you have problems with your teammates going down.

[limpid pond]

They're not as scary as they look. Just take a reasonably ammo efficient build (read: Not Fat Boy or GK2), only call resupplies when you really need it and you'll be fine. Nitra spillover means the later stages are much safer.

[uneven lichen]

Can I host one publicly like normal missions?

[limpid pond]

Yeah

[buoyant wing]

people can't join once it's started but yes you can

[modern galleon]

Double dozer on DD huh. Fun.

[tardy girder]

yes, the only difference compared to a regular mission is that A: nobody can join once it starts and B: everyone needs to be playing as a promoted dwarf (bronze 1 or higher)

[uneven lichen]

Ah, I see

What about difficulty? Do you choose that or is locked to a specific difficulty

[tardy girder]

regular dives are 3/3.5/3.5 while elite dives are 4.5/5/5.5

so yes, the difficulty is fixed per stage

[wraith shard]

What perks do you guys use for deeo dive

[balmy stone]

Born ready, vampire/resupplier, deep pockets, dash and iron will

On scout I use hoverboots and medic

[wraith shard]

Mhm okay thanks

[deft holly]

there's a lotta nitra in this week's dd huh

first stage is kinda stingy but my friend and i stopped actively looking after stage 2 and still had 400+ leftover at the end of stage 3

also nemesis moved in front of dotty in stage 1 and got fucked

[wraith shard]

Thats alot of nitra

[deft holly]

ayep

granted I was playing ntp gunner but still a good amount

not nearly as bad as that one with 800+ nitra

aw cant send image here

[wraith shard]

Damn.

[manic pivot]

_ _
ATTENTION MINERS!
Planet scanning is still in progress, 12 hours left until new Deep Dives!
_ _

[wraith shard]

Lets see lets see...

[faint shell]

definitely, ended up with 500 at the end and we called in so many unnecessary resups

[dim bramble]

This weeks EDD is so painful

[lusty shuttle]

I can't wait for three Haunted Cave modifiers tomorrow.

[dim bramble]

on my last life on the second mission solo (mactera plague)

just need black box

wish me luck

im driller with flamethrower and subata

I quit

Im never playing mactera plague EDD ever again

[trail pivot]

it was fun

[dim bramble]

fun?

[trail pivot]

(i was scout )

[dim bramble]

I might attempt it in a 4 man squad

just to lose again

[trail pivot]

I never dive as scout so it was freeing

[lime meteor]

man did aquarqs before black box

[trail pivot]

we did too

[dim bramble]

I change my mind

im not wasting a hour on it just to lose

[dim bramble]

fudge

I definitely should have done black box first

I would of had revives

might re attempt it later, got 9 hours before it ends, gonna let my sanity recharge

[noble shoal]

elite deep dive was.... rough

[spring dawn]

almost did the EDD first try the other day, died on the last one because of I think a miscommunication (I don't think our Scout spoke English, since they didn't respond to us asking them to come help with the Black Box and had I think a Chinese name? Not sure, I can't tell at a glance) so we accidentally popped two eggs at once, which were both swarms 🙃

[trail pivot]

hey that's what happened last week

[sudden crater]

Deep dive elite the most hardest job

[lusty shuttle]

The third stage was definitely tough, yeah. We came close to a team wipe when, the second I got my team in the bunker I'd dug, a Bulk Detonator and an Oppressor spawned and I barely got a tunnel out dug fast enough.

[wraith shard]

Oh yeah we get a new dive tomorrow

[lime stag]

anyone have any tips for the mactera plague black box in the second part of the EDD? keep running into a wall with random lobbies. I tried it once with cryo cannon (no OCs unfortunately) and once with scout with cryo grenade that made it a bit easier

[sage solar]

Well the trick with mactera swarms is how fast you can clear them so at this point AOE damage is key to take them all out at once

• Cyro Cannon (If you have cold radiance then hop into the middle of them and start blasting)
• Cyro Grenades
• Plasma Burster Spam
• Explosive Grenades
• Engie w/Breech Cutter or Deepcore GL or full unload his Loki
• Just get your gunner to drop a shield and kill them

Just a few examples

[lime stag]

ill try to bring it up in the lobby before we start so hopefully i have better luck

[lusty shuttle]

If you have good aim, anything that does good weak point damage can wreck Macteras since their bellies are always exposed. Stunning works on Macteras too, so if you're using the Hurricane, it can be good for that.

Fear also works on them and so do pheromones.

[modern galleon]

Sure do love when a host randomly aborts the dive, with no explanation, and then kicks you for no reason.

[urban snow]

Decided to suck it up and do the double drilldozer DD. Got to the heartstone of the second dozer mission and the host connection dropped out

[sage solar]

I’ve never done that but It just works

with meme builds too

fun is key

[sage solar]

Oh and if your scout has the crossbow with bodkin points OC

[echo storm]

man i love the scout and engi duo for dives

[icy lake]

Anyone got a timer on deep dive reset so I can see if it's worth hopping on to do them?

[glossy walrus]

you have another 5 or 6h or so

[tardy girder]

deep dives and weekly assignments reset at <t:1666263600:t> on thursday

[icy lake]

Gotcha

[hoary cove]

hurricane destroys mactera

so does minigun to a certain extent but the stun on hurricane makes it uniquely godly

[pearl horizon]

hurricane sounds better since no windup and spread

[lost jungle]

cluster grenade vs mactera

[deft holly]

hot sauce

[candid bobcat]

TCF

plus you also have other options like Fire RJ250, proxy nades, lures help a lot, FSD with fear, sludge pump deletes clouds of macteras (e.g. Disperser Compound or Hydrogen Ion Additive or Volatile Impact Mixture)

Burning Hell with stun also makes it trivial for teammates to delete clustered macteras, you just cycle stun between macteras

Hellfire with stun/fear also makes mactera plague quite easy

you always have the boring option too of Neurontoxin Payload with fear as well

Bullet Hell Stun with Aggressive Venting can also work

so yeah, there are tons of options

A cluster thrown into mid air will clear several mactera spawns and stun the trijaws and brundles

[manic pivot]

_ _
ATTENTION MINERS!
New Deep Dives will be available in one hour!
_ _

[sly kettle]

Soon™

[radiant halo]

i'm always like "yeah i got time to do the deep dives" and then every single week i have to do both deep dives hours before they're updated

[oblique glen]

please don't be double escort please 🙏

[radiant halo]

i want a fun biome like sandblasted corridors

it's been a bit since we've had a deep dive with that biome, i think it hasn't been in since my first deep dive months ago

[oblique glen]

sandblasted would be fantastic

[radiant halo]

rlly hoping for no black box+point extraction this time either

[fluid cliff]

black box + haunted 8)

[oblique glen]

:( please no

[radiant halo]

elim and haunted <3

[oblique glen]

that's alright

[radiant halo]

my favorite ever i love running for my life

[oblique glen]

least favourite missions are where you have to stay within a small area, or defend an objective. salvage, black box and doretta, I'm glaring at you

[lime meteor]

solo players

[oblique glen]

solo players indeed

solo scout players especially

[lime meteor]

I'm gonna assume the scout flair is why

[oblique glen]

yep

[lime meteor]

When those missions show up I just switch class

[radiant halo]

salvage missions solo on a high haz are so miserable you can never catch a break

[lime meteor]

unless I can get away with the black box this time

[oblique glen]

scout mains rise up

[lime meteor]

I'm perfectly fine soloing haz 4 salvages to level up my engineer atm

[oblique glen]

I can solo a haz 4 somewhat comfortable, unless it's one of those missions i mentioned

[ivory marten]

I usually go as gunner for Solo DD

[radiant halo]

i usually go scout if i'm solo but i don't mind playing the others when i'm with people

[oblique glen]

I play high mobility scout usually (special powder and stuff) so really open areas are my beloved. I love sandblasted and sometimes radioactive

[lime meteor]

well that's the problem I assume

solo scout on salvage

[radiant halo]

😔

[lime meteor]

and that's why u get another class promoted so you don't have to deal with that

[fluid cliff]

solo salvage is annoying enough as it is

scout will doubly struggle

[radiant halo]

i'm probably most comfortable with gunner after scout

[oblique glen]

I have everything except gunner promoted. and 3 silver promos on scout

[eager knoll]

lmfao me back in the day

pretty sure I was worse than that

[lime meteor]

same story except replace gunner with engineer

[radiant halo]

god i'm an unfortunate scout main he's plat 3 and everyone else is silver 1

[lime meteor]

engineers level 20 so I don't consider myself engineer phobic anymore

[radiant halo]

i didn't mean for that to happen

[eager knoll]

I think when I had scout maxed out I was like bronze 1 with 2 others and bronze 2 with one of them

[radiant halo]

gunner is almost silver 2 i just have to do the assignments

[oblique glen]

yeah same with me but for gold 1 scout :) just gotta do the assignment

[eager knoll]

I remember playing scout for so long even after getting gold 3 and when I finally decided to level the others past bronze the update came out with more ranks so I was just like "welp"

[radiant halo]

engineer is very fun to play but god if i play him for too long and then play another class again i completely forget how to play

[oblique glen]

"what do you mean i can't fly across the map anymore?" (scout mains playing anything except scout or blast jump engie)

[radiant halo]

trying to make platforms as mf gunner

[lime meteor]

Trying to drill as gunner

[radiant halo]

i have a solid fire driller build but i cant figure out a good cryo

the secondary is a tough choice

[eager knoll]

cryo simply is good

but you can make it better

[radiant halo]

i'm using ice spear rn

but i do have snowball which i hear is also fun

[lime meteor]

I don't like using cryo solo but it's very strong with other players

[eager knoll]

you just can't die with it

low health? freeze some things and drill

[radiant halo]

yeah if i'm solo i'd go sludge

deep dives in 10 minutes

[fluid cliff]

blast jump engi!!!!

da best

[oblique glen]

only recently got that oc and I'm looking forward to trying it if i ever play engineer

3 mins till reset

I'm ready to get my bulk detonated ;)

[radiant halo]

i want another huge cave

[manic pivot]

_ _
ATTENTION MINERS!
New Deep Dives are now available!
_ _

[oblique glen]

showtime

[quiet mortar]

DEEP DIVE
Region: Hollow Bough | Code Name: Stinking Border
Stage 1: 250 Morkite + 2 M.U.L.E.s | Elite Threat
Stage 2: 2 Dreadnoughts (Classic + Hiveguard) + 2 M.U.L.E.s | Swarmageddon
Stage 3: 6 Eggs + 📡 1 Black Box | No Mutators

ELITE: DEEP DIVE
Region: Dense Biozone | Code Name: Fragile Split
Stage 1: ⛽ Refine Liquid Morkite + 📡 1 Black Box | Swarmageddon
Stage 2: 2 Dreadnoughts (Classic + Hiveguard) + 2 Eggs | No Mutators
Stage 3: 200 Morkite + Dreadnought Twins | Low Oxygen

[marble veldt]

IT'S MUFFIN TIME

[radiant halo]

no sandblasted :{

[lime meteor]

Hollow bough🗿

There goes solo gunner players

[potent vector]

biozone again

[lime meteor]

Could be worse

[hollow citrus]

Hollow bough my favourite

[oblique glen]

elite bulk det :(

[drowsy hollow]

sticky fuel time

[fossil tulip]

Stage 2 Normal: 2 Dreads + 2 Mules with Swarmageddon

[ivory marten]

Hollow Bough. Wonderful.

[fossil tulip]

One is Classic Dread

[radiant halo]

go aer go!!

[jade sluice]

if I do a deep dive get the weekly reward and do an elite deep dive will I get the rewards again?

[potent vector]

yes

you get rewards for completing both dives once

[fossil tulip]

2nd Dread is Hiveguard

[fossil tulip]

Stage 3: 6 Eggs + Blackbox with no modifiers

[lime meteor]

I predict edd stage 3 gonna have escort

nvm

[oblique glen]

20 mins for stage 1. that was cruel

agony

at least the mules have been secondaries

I'm gonna sit out on this dd out. elite bulk dets have drained too much of my patience

[potent vector]

not too bad on a regular DD

[lime meteor]

And when r u gonna get an elite bulk consistently

[potent vector]

especially not on a salvage/dotty mission

[lime meteor]

might as well have a dread replace a swarm at that point

I'm more afraid of elite grabbers

[eager knoll]

they zoomin'

[grave marsh]

I'm thinking about soloing my first deep dive, any scout builds that would do good against it? I'm currently bringing overtuned particle accelerator drak and jumbo shells boomstick

[lime meteor]

that's good enough I think

I run jumbo shells also but replace carbine with hipster m1000

[sly kettle]

Same.

[reef bison]

Hipster and ED is my usual go to for hipster

[lime meteor]

I asked for Ed but this game gave me special powder

I'm spoiled

[grave marsh]

Ok, thanks, I probably would've run my m1000 but I've been getting unlucky with the overclocks

[lime meteor]

if in doubt with m1000 base m1000 is perfectly fine on it's own

[eager knoll]

it still does the "ping" so you don't really need overclocks for it

[ivory marten]

Oh thank god the Black Box has no mutation.

[lime meteor]

no mactera plague and we gucci

[wraith shard]

For dives I always run AI stability GK2 and Bodkin points crossbow on scout.

[sly kettle]

What are the two Dreadnaughts on Stage 2 in the elite one? There's still an unknown there.

[quiet mortar]

I'm unsure

If anyone has info on this let me know

[radiant halo]

low oxygen 😭

[sage solar]

in a edd rn tell you when i see it

[eager knoll]

looks updated right now

classic + hiveguard

[lime meteor]

Easier then you think

But good luck with randoms with that modifier lmao

[solemn flax]

new deep dive when

[marsh quest]

An hour ago

Restart yer game

[solemn flax]

oh

[marsh quest]

lul

[solemn flax]

i was sitting in game checking deep dive each 5 mins

[ivory marten]

Let's roll the dice and see what song I get.

Steal from the Rich, Give to Myself.

Let's fucking go.

[thorny gull]

cring

[ivory marten]

shut

Payday's music is baller as hell.

[thorny gull]

no

[ivory marten]

Suit yourself.

[thorny gull]

that's #deep-dive-discussion not payday

[ivory marten]

I like playing Payday music while doing a deep dive.

[thorny gull]

I see

[ivory marten]

I have a whole playlist.

[thorny gull]

Play Donacdum on EDD

[ivory marten]

lol

[thorny gull]

with randumbs

[sage solar]

yeah its the normal dread + hiveguard

[ivory marten]

So...

I took the wrong loadout into the dive.

[sage solar]

same

thought i had the shard equiped but i had fatboy

[ivory marten]

Fuck this.

[cursive bough]

Low o2 edd

[restive patrol]

low oxygen and twins

nice

[ivory marten]

And my prize for stage 2 is...

Special Powder.

[drowsy hollow]

EDD was ok

until...

the extraction part of the final stage

yep you guessed it right nobody but scout made it to the pod

[unreal copper]

low o2 on morkite tends to be like that

[wraith flame]

Lucky af

[stone crag]

the dd for me is glacial strata while on this its the hollow bough weird

oh i restarted the game it is hollow bough now weird

[scarlet jewel]

someone had their game up for longer than when the reset occured

[twilit ingot]

damn, this EDD was actually kinda hard

had to make a run for it to the drop pod after grabbing egg in stage 2 cause we had no ammo to spare

[solemn flax]

What EDD is this time?

[burnt sandal]

#deep-dive-discussion message

[solemn flax]

Twins with low oxygen?

Holy fuck

💀

i guess im not doing stage 3 this time

[twilit ingot]

we barely made it through the edd lmao

[lusty shuttle]

I wonder how close to deleting one of the twins a firing squad of Engineers with Hyper Propellant all shooting it at once would get.

Or maybe three plus a cryo Driller, and they wait until it's frozen?

[ancient cove]

Don't be such a leaf lover.
It isn't that hard. Also depends on how much Nitra EDD has.
Call 2-3 drop pods in fighting area and rotate between them

• Molly

[solemn flax]

calling drop pods

[ancient cove]

*resupply

[solemn flax]

sounds good, what perk is it

so uhh

resupply gives oxygen too?

then its actually easy

[ancient cove]

yes, resupply pods give oxygen

[balmy stone]

Low o2 is prob best for the last stage so you don’t use resups you need later, but it still is my least favorite modifier

[trail pivot]

Low oxygen osr aka i should bring Minelayer

[stoic grail]

The low O2 wasn't too bad. At least it wasn't hiveguard.

[wraith flame]

This EDD sounds awesome. I love these harder modifiers.

[lime meteor]

low O2 doesn't sound hard in this edd because you should have tons of nitra leftover by the 3rd edd

[severe tusk]

That is usually true, but not always the case.

[marsh quest]

HOLY FUCKING BALLS

5 tri jaws

THE FUCK

[narrow ginkgo]

well thats not good

[marsh quest]

The minute I got close the the damn blackbox

[narrow ginkgo]

you got scamed

[torn verge]

yeah by the third stage you've got enough nitra to slap down multiple resupplies in the twins room

for o2

[drifting parrot]

I just had a horrible thought
instead of 3 stage deep dive, you're dropped into one HUGE cave with all 6 objectives present

now unfortunately this can't support escort duty, nor can it handle more than one of aquarks, refining, and salvage, but otherwise it seems fun

[steep pulsar]

That sounds absolutely awful. I love it.

[drifting parrot]

I got the idea after reading this week's DD objectives

and I thought to myself "okay, 4 mules, 2 dreads, 150 morkite, 6 eggs, and a black box"

and then realized that loading into a mission and seeing that would be horror

of the best kind

like, I know there's the 2x objectives mod
but I'd love mega-multi-missions

because 6 dreads is less interesting

[lime meteor]

console destroyer the mission

[narrow ginkgo]

oh. id kinda like that

[bleak dagger]

fucking love Low O2

esp when molly goes through walls

[civic island]

Group died of O2 because Molly climbed through a resupply hole

Amazing

[torn verge]

diagnosis: skill issue
bad resupply placement in previous areas

it's the final stage of a deep dive, there's no excuse not to leave a resup pod in every room
you'll have the nitra

if you don't have the nitra then tell the engi to stop using fat boy and chugging ammo like he chugs beer

[narrow ginkgo]

excause me? wtf

[bleak dagger]

molly just went like “cool a shortcut” and just went in the holes

[civic island]

It was kind of funny lol

I think we all collectively forgot that it was an O2 mission for a sec

[bleak dagger]

we were going to win anyways

[civic island]

Honestly, seed layout for all 3 were really good

Liked this EDD

[stray coral]

holy moly

edd was pretty good this week

tough! nearly failed the first mission bc the dreadnought bullshitstomped and wiped everyone but me, i picked up driller after some jumping about, was close

third mission was easy pickings but it really came down to the wire getting out of there

only the scout got out

[wraith flame]

My EDD had a driller with 41 downs lol. The last mission rush to the pod was a iron will spam

We all ran out of oxygen in the middle of a blocked off driller tunnel

Hilarious

[faint shell]

that sounds... very fun

or combine them, 3 stage DD with 4+ objectives each stage

[balmy stone]

I dc’d on stage 3

[modern moat]

in solo dive is it better to have autocannon on fear chance or the max damage on max RoF ?

[heavy sierra]

Fear's one of the flat out best augment on the gunner so i will always recommand it

[lament musk]

Fear if you're running something like NTP, for something like big bertha i'd stick with the damage

[glossy walrus]

fear's only really good for ntp, for everything else you're generally just scattering the bugs for not much reason, so want to use something else

I hear there's some potential to group with the fear but that sounds like it requires a fair bit of skill

[unreal copper]

We saved a resupply for the escape. Made it pretty easy.

[hollow citrus]

EDD was challenging this week only because we had an annoying engi spamming fat boy downing people and being a nuisance

imagine brining fat boy on elims smh

[potent vector]

if you got cc to keep the dread in the cloud forever, that’s like 400 free damage!!

[round forum]

anyone got game crash on EDD?

[past drum]

why didnt you kick him

im heartless

[void shore]

I bring fatboys to elims because swarms are a bigger threat than dreads imo. too many times I’ve brought shard diffractor and got overwhelmed once the dread was dead. just gotta use your brain using nukes around teammates

[hollow citrus]

possible, but he was using nukes on the dreads themselves which is just not good at all

like our cryo driller kept trying to freeze the dread and would get hit, or we were trying to kite and couldnt cos of the rad cloud

overall a giant pain in the ass

I should have kicked but wtv

[void shore]

oh ok then yeah that sucks I could see supernoobs doing that if they don’t know better

[wraith flame]

It sounds like you were with me. Kind of exactly what happened.

[tacit merlin]

Hows the edd this week solo as engie??? First stage looks hard

[wraith shard]

We crashed 2 times during the elite dive :/ Anyone else have the same issue?

[vital sluice]

I didn't play as engi but I did solo gunner and it was very manageable (I had rocky mountain so I didn't even hate my life making the pipes). Engi's kit is pretty versatile so it's probably fine

[tacit merlin]

Nvm stage 3 was absolutely painful dont wanna bother doing it cause if the amount of menaces spawning

[glossy walrus]

we had a hiveguard spawn on edd stage1, made laying pipes kinda annoying with only a duo, had to do a lot of back and forthing depending on who she targeted

we didn't want to burn the ammo on her though because wanted to save it for more resups for stage3, so we just killed her babies then left her alone since she's slow. was kinda annoying but probably still better than burning the ammo

[wraith shard]

How hard is this weeks normal deep dive?

[lime meteor]

It's a normal deep dive

[torn verge]

not notably harder than any other regular deep dive

[wraith shard]

Ok thanks

[lime meteor]

regular deep dives can only really be more annoying then hard

like last week's double escort

[torn verge]

the cavegen is typical hollow bough awfulness, dreadnaughts + swarmageddon is annoying

that's about it

[lime meteor]

Does the swarmageddon spawn during the dreadnought

[torn verge]

yes

[inner rover]

We had twins spawn during stage 1 of edd

But then we used a detonator to kill the hive guard in stage 2 so it wasn't too long of an EDD

[trail pivot]

whats the enemy composition stage 2 and 3?

usual suspects?

[balmy stone]

I’ve had a bunch of praets and oppressors spawn both times

[civic island]

Tons of praetorians and a lot of menaces

[trail pivot]

menaces third stage?

[lime meteor]

you act like tons of praets aren't common

only thing I can think of is the praetorian swarm that replaces the regular

[balmy stone]

I’m talking about praet swarms

It happened a lot between both swarms and there are a lot of opportunities for them and other rarer swarms to occur

I had a bulk on stage 2 spawn after the dreads and on stage 3 before the host’s internet gave up

[civic island]

A lot on second stage, I believe

Third stage, not much

[trail pivot]

i didn't see any menaces

after the last egg third stage, a bulk popped out of the cocoon, dug to the pod, got and and saw the horde of praetorians and oppresors after us

[civic island]

My group encountered at least 4

[trail pivot]

I guess the scout got them first

[civic island]

And yeah, the praet and oppressors were a bit more common than usual

[trail pivot]

right as we popped the twins 3 of them cornered us

we basically skipped the third cavern entirely and shot the egg through the ceiling

[civic island]

Did you get the occasional massive Mactera swarm at all

I had several instances where the rest of my group was downed

Perpetrators were a couple tri jaws

[trail pivot]

a couple first and second

but the swarmers were on me no stop

1 and 2 just had swarmers

there was a nexus hiding

a leech near the pod second stage

[civic island]

We had 3 nexuses on second

[trail pivot]

we had a swarmer swarm first stage

that was bad

[civic island]

And the swarmers on first and second were unrelenting

Someone probably snuck a swarmer under my terrain scanner or something

[trail pivot]

I spent a fourth the second round embedded in a tunnel with the booger gun

[civic island]

Because I can’t glance away for one second without the little buggers appearing

[trail pivot]

classic slammed me through the wall

[civic island]

Fortunately, the maps were pretty good for all 3 dreads

[wraith flame]

Yeah they caused me some trouble, I built a single target DPS build to help kill the dreads and the swarmers were on me like white on rice.

[civic island]

That sounds terrible lol

Very ammo-hungry too, if you’re doing single target

[lime meteor]

Sounds like a job for firebolts

[civic island]

I think I ran AoE NTP

Best decision

[lime meteor]

man ntp

[balmy stone]

Whenever I got nitra like 100 would spawn, I put splash on bouncy drak the second time to kind of deal with it but the host sabotaged the mission by wasting all the resups for no reason

[drifting parrot]

does bosco have to move at a snail's pace at all times when carrying things?

[lime meteor]

my guy he's invincible

and can get anywhere

[civic island]

He skipped leg day

[lime meteor]

he has no legs

[civic island]

Def didn’t skip arm day tho

[wraith flame]

Exactly

[trail pivot]

all that just to get leadstorm

[lime meteor]

Bosco is a god send on point extraction and egg hunt

[balmy stone]

It was a team of 3 so usually whoever’s at 2 ammo gets to double dip, but the host double and triple dipped at 3 and a half or full ammo

[wraith flame]

Lead storm is great tho

[trail pivot]

expected birthday cake and got tres leches

[daring iron]

tres leches is great wdym

[balmy stone]

It’s better than birthday cake

[trail pivot]

sorry, i'm a rice pudding man

[daring iron]

ah

[trail pivot]

tres leche is wet sponge

but honestly gamma contamination and phero bolts were doing work

[civic island]

I’m a sucker for sponge cake. Perhaps I’ll be a sucker for lead storm too

[trail pivot]

i had like 700+ kills

[civic island]

I’d really like to run phero bolts for this EDD

[daring iron]

lead storm is bad more like lead storm is good

[civic island]

Does a phero oppressor just kill all the swarmers on stage 1

Might try it for black box

[daring iron]

wait this is dd discussion

oops

[trail pivot]

one of the pumpjacks is beneath the box

[balmy stone]

Hmm I’m not sure but phero did help stop enemies from pouring in as fast

[trail pivot]

if you drill down the jack and the pipe will be in your way

[drifting parrot]

easy solo DD, except the endless supply of menaces on stage 3

[trail pivot]

i'd stay on the cliff

[drifting parrot]

I don't think I popped a single egg without having a menace show up

[limpid pond]

Lead Storm and Burning Hell are basically the only good Minigun builds tbh

[civic island]

I love running oomph casually

Doesn’t tailor towards any specific build but the spin up is satisfyingly noticeable

[trail pivot]

cfm cold as the grave tho

[civic island]

Did a couple DD with oomph, very helpful

[limpid pond]

Compact Feed Mechanism for what, worse ammo efficiency and DPS and group clear than 31212 Frag Missiles Hurricane?

[trail pivot]

for dakka dakka

[limpid pond]

But Hurricane is a handheld remote controlled missile silo that makes swarm go boom

[trail bone]

does anyone have a bunch of audio files of the dwarves saying rock and stone

[stray coral]

nice easy deep dive this week

one of our scouts, think he was a newbie, kept taking my resupply though

i wanted to call him a dipshit but it would have been rude so i just shot him

[lime meteor]

This is why I play solo unless it's necessary to play with randoms

[stray coral]

i mean it's rarely ever that bad

most of my random missions are great, even deep dives

[lime meteor]

I just want to avoid bad teammates when im trying to complete something

[civic island]

Public DD are casual fun

[lime meteor]

random missions that I don't need to complete I don't rly care

[civic island]

I like hanging around and helping out

Helps folks who are still intimidated by going solo

[stray coral]

public missions in general are plenty of fun

even greenbeards hit diamonds

[balmy stone]

I prefer doing a mission with randoms first before doing the edd to see if they leave resups and are team oriented

I also roll the dice especially when it’s just the host

Lets me pick my preferred class

[civic island]

Yeah, pub dives are a lot of fun

[balmy stone]

I don’t mind duplicate classes but other people switch to the missing class immediately

[civic island]

Especially when it’s a DD, can afford to be a lot less optimal

Duplicate classes are fun. Multiple engineers on a salvage op is such a joy to watch

[limpid pond]

I can't stand class stacking, why are people so eager to pick 2nd Gunner when there's no Scout 💀

[lime meteor]

I've had another scout join on a salvage with no gunner or driller

good thing prevent latejoin character duplication exists but still dont understand

[long forge]

isnt there an option to prevent that

[lime meteor]

That's what I just said

[limpid pond]

Quad Gunner is gigabased though

[lime meteor]

But I'm not the one hosting the games usually

[lime meteor]

Quad scout on salvage

[balmy stone]

2 gunners means twice the shields

[inner rover]

Quad engi on escort and you can just let the turrets solo the heartstone

[long forge]

lol

[echo storm]

I always do edd first

[fluid cliff]

quad engi is gamer

turret whip and em discharges + turret arcs everywhere

zap boom bang

frames immediately begin crying

[wraith flame]

Randoms are 99% fantastic for me. Hardly ever have a bad one.

[urban snow]

Yeah randoms are great most of the time

[eager jay]

same though i seem to get worse games on haz 3 compared to the higher diffs cause less people seem to know proper etiquette

[fresh coyote]

Hello everyone, just wanted to ask for some tips. I started running dd & edd a couple days ago after promoting all my dwarves first to experience all the weapons etc.. DDs are manageable for the most part, solo'd last week's deathless and did a full party this week with no issues. My main problem is EDD, I tried about 10 times total last week and this one with 0 successes :( I don't die often, in fact last run I had 9 deaths total (6 of which was in the last mission saving them from awkward spots) while team was 20+ deaths each despite them being gold promoted, was the closest run I had since we died of o2 while extracting, everyone went in random places and left molly and died.. I feel like most team members are either too slow in moving or die too often and I'm not sure what to do tbh, any words of wisdom to a greenbeard? 🥲

[thorn jewel]

Communicating about plans for molly’s departure, such as tactical resupplying or rez chaining in a driller tunnel

Other than that, play on haz 4-5 for your main game to practice handling wave density and objective

ie: practice

My first EDD took about 7h all with the same team, and 2 were greybeards

[fresh coyote]

I wish people would communicate, I'm the only one writing in chat or if I talk it's radio silence

[thorn jewel]

I don’t personally enjoy vcing with random people but I type up a storm if I need to

[fresh coyote]

I also play haz 4/5 for normal missions, haz 4 is consistently easy while 5 needs abit of hustling

[thorn jewel]

Just depends on who you get then

Promotion level while helpful, does not indicate skill at higher difficulty, only experience with the class

Or they hacked it

I had a plat3 driller down himself with c4 5 times this EDD using it on hiveguards

[past drum]

easy ass dive again

[thorn jewel]

And ignore waves of enemies rather than shoot them, and drill to objectives

[balmy stone]

No heroics on edd’s, if one person gets into the drop pod that’s all it takes

Also if you have iw and no way of getting to the drop pod use it in case teammates at the pod get downed and have iw

[urban snow]

Yeah, and ignore literally everything thats not nitra or objectives

[balmy stone]

Also for low o2 missions it’s safe assume molly will completely screw everyone so put resupplies down from the first cave to the last about the distance apart that it takes to start running out of air

Dash helps a lot if there aren’t tunnel shortcuts

*don’t put it in the first cave unless you need ammo cause you’ll get air from the drop pod at the start and end

[fresh coyote]

Problem with putting down resupplies is we usually have no nitra going into 3rd edd (this week's), there's always this one guy that orders 3-4 resupplies on the first liquid morkite mission.. Other than that I already do all the stuff you guys mentioned, got dash and iw, ignore all gold and only go on obj/nitra, try to always keep it moving and relay to the team our next move. Maybe I just need to keep trying and hope for a team that clicks

[limpid pond]

Sounds like you need a consistent group to play with. People you can properly communicate with, people you know will act a certain way and can be coordinated with.

[fresh coyote]

That's actually exactly what I was hoping to have, a static group even if it's just for edd's. Other than asking in the lfg channel here not sure how to make that happen though sadly

[limpid pond]

Yeah, basically that, or friend the randos you like

[dim bramble]

Just realized me failing last week’s EDD could of been prevented by leaving my fellow dwarves behind

[uneven lichen]

It was unavoidable then

[dusk spruce]

Out of curiosity, what class? My deaths/revives often look like this because I usually run scout and evading/kiting enemies to revive everyone when shit hits the fan is a significant part of my job description now

[urban snow]

Yup lol. Field Medic is permanently installed on my scout

[dusk spruce]

Well then it sounds like you have no problem with maneuverability, if your not running out of nitra then ammo isn't a problem. Obviously try to improve your own ability to handle swarms as a class w/o as much firepower, and make sure to coordinate with your team, especially extracting on low O2

[lusty shuttle]

How fast can quad engi kill one of the Twins with Hyper Propellant?

Like, if you all shoot simultaneously and hit an area of broken armor, is it just an instakill?

[keen spindle]

They should add cards and dice to the space rig- it’ll be dope!

[fresh coyote]

Gunner for the most part, did one with the driller and it was more or less the same. You could argue both have decent survivability with driller on vampire and gunner with shields (though tbh, I rarely use shields to myself, they're mostly for reviving teammates and salvage/black box)

I also run resupplier + sweet tooth* on the gunner to leave more healing for the team

[urban snow]

Especially on high hazards get practice throwing shields down on the team when things get hectic BEFORE people go down. The shields are great for ressing but on high hazard (inc EDD) once people start going down they usually keep going down. Better to keep the team in better shape than clean up. That said I usually keep 1 shield in reserve for a clutch revive or resupply

[fresh coyote]

Not being able to see others' shield levels makes this abit harder but I find that we're usually okay when the team moves as one and kites well. So far the best experience I've had running high haz was with 2 incredibly good players, an engie and a scout and me on gunner, we ran through 10 or so haz5 missions in a row, they were ruthlessly efficient with time, we even managed to get the "Karl would be proud" trophy on a point extraction finishing in 7mins with ebonut secondary obj as well. I think the main problem is that it seems like most players don't realise that the longer you are in a haz5 or edd mission the worse things will get, often times someone goes down randomly 70m away cause they didn't move out with the rest of the team and that's a min or two of time lost trying to backtrack which could mean another swarm and more dwarves standing still while headscratching trying to find the way again

[thorn jewel]

Sweet tooth I’d take off of gunner due to the number of red sugars on walls

I reserve that for sometimes driller but mostly scout

[faint shell]

spoken like a true mighty miner!

[urban snow]

Whew just finished the EDD first try with a bunch of randos

Went 20-0 revives/deaths on Scout lol. Field medic is kinggg

[quaint matrix]

mule goes straight vertical on low o2 stage 3 of edd and we lose the mission. sigh

[faint shell]

oh dear, was your scout alive¿

[jolly hazel]

drill issue

[glossy walrus]

there's a reason it's generally recommended to drop intermediate resups because you know molly is trying as hard as she can to screw you on low o2

that or have the engie plug up the holes

actually let me rephrase, molly is always trying to screw you no matter the mission, just she can do it more easily on low o2

in the edd low o2 mission we got a mactera swarm so decided to bunker up, put molly safely behind us so we could shoot properly, then every 10s or so she decided she wasn't in the way enough, so would just randomly get up on her own and walk infront of us to block our shots

[trail bone]

In this week's low O2 EDD we had the scout make a dash for the pod while we lured the rest of the bugs away, molly went on without us and we didnt have any resupplies left to make breathing spots

the driller decides he could probably make a tunnel if he runs back and forth between the resupply we did have, and succeeded at doing so, but I perished protecting that resupply lol

[dense ruin]

what are the mission parameters for this weeks EDD?

[sage solar]

Stage 1 [Swarmageddon]

• On Site Refinery (Primary)
• Black Box (Secondary)

Stage 2 [None]

• Hiveguard, Classic Dread (Primary)
• 2 Eggs (Secondary)

Stage 3 [Low O2]

• 200 Morkite (Primary)
• Dreadnaught Twins (Secondary)

[dense ruin]

ty

[unreal copper]

You can also just check the pinned message

[echo storm]

is the map generation good for stage 3 in the edd

[uneven lichen]

Question, can you get rewards for both the regular deep dive and the elite deep dive if you do them both in 1 week

[old widget]

Yes

Once per refresh per DD / EDD

[uneven lichen]

Nice

Just finished the regular deep dive and was thinking of doing the elite one

[urban snow]

Yeah you can get 6 cores per week by doing both dives

[urban snow]

The dread is at the bottom of the cave and the mule goes vertical to head back to the pod, so a lot of people are struggling to stick with the mule

So plan the supply pods or an escape route so you dont suffocate when you call the drop pod

[flat crest]

Dammit Molly. The amount of times molly has booped one of a ledge or walked in front by randomly deciding to move 😂

[shy karma]

That EDD was awful.
First stage, was manageable-ish. Swarmers were annoying. It was the cave generation that was awful
Second stage, eggs went fine, dread’s did not. Accidentally left Scout behind
Third stage was ok till the end, where Molly moved straight up cliffs and we were just barely to far. Only our scout made it our alive, and by using Iron will to get into the pod

[lime meteor]

I threw last stage edd solo because a bulk detonator meteor hit me a single time

[deep oar]

Almost failed this weeks normal dive in stage 1 due to both an elite Bulk and a passive Dreadnaught spawn at the same time

[thorn jewel]

My team of randoms didn’t have a problem keeping up with molly. Not sure why she didn’t use a resupp tube to go home other than cave generation/us not using a resupp at the bottom

[balmy stone]

Elite bulks are some ornery bastards

[thorn jewel]

We also had 2 or 3 to use as o2 stopping points

[deep oar]

yeah, and I was playing solo cryo driller....so I had no way to really deal with either of them efficiently

[balmy stone]

I’m still salty that my host’s game crashed on edd stage 3 when our team of randoms was completely balling out and would’ve won no question

We had tons of nitra and gunner and I were using bunkers and shields to trap bulks

[soft token]

what should i do for a Jet Fuel Homebrew hurricane build?

[balmy stone]

Yeah cryo driller doesn’t have much offensive power against something like a bulk, they defrost pretty quick and the cryo cannon has limited range

[soft token]

if youre running cryo driller and are building for bulks, always run temp shock wave cooker

200 damage is nothing to sneeze at and its your best option when fighting bulks

[thorn jewel]

Is temp shocking a mod or debuff or overclock?

[balmy stone]

I think it’s a mod on the cwc

[thorn jewel]

Like I see normal glyphids just kind of die whenever I light frozen ones on fire but I normally do that with an incendiary

Or burning hell

[balmy stone]

21X12, I don’t think armor break works as well as it says it does and you definitely want stun

It’s not too good at crowd control so I’d just use it for eliminations generally

[limpid pond]

Armor break actually works on Jet Fuel Homebrew, just not other Hurricane builds

[balmy stone]

Good to know

[hushed sequoia]

direct armor breaking works on every build but aoe doesn't work at all

[balmy stone]

That makes sense given I can see armor fall off with the m1k but not a lot of cc loadouts

[thorn arrow]

Its a mod on wave cooker and epc

[balmy stone]

Focusing gunner’s primaries on direct damage limits what you can do in swarms so I try to have some balance

[hushed sequoia]

temp shock is a mechanic

anything that deals heat/cold can activate temp shock

[thorn jewel]

Its this reason that while LSLS is enjoyable, is not something I use when I’m solely interested in preventing failure for my team of randoms

For omega single target I use just leadspray BRT and shove it in said target’s rear

[balmy stone]

I have hellfire coilgun on my lsls loadout and it gets the job done with swarmers and shredders

I got the leadspray brt on my single target ac loadout that I’m still working on

[thorn jewel]

I’ll have to try hellfire, I know its good, I just don’t know how good/how to use it well/aim it positionally

Whether its more like… a wall I fire across the wave, or through the wave, or what mods to use with it

[balmy stone]

Aim where the enemies are going to be rather than where they are

It leaves a wide trail that sets them on fire pretty quick

If you lure enemies into ifg’s you want a similar approach

[balmy stone]

My build is 23122

[thorn arrow]

You see a large group, shoot in the middle of the group and it burns em

You dont need to hit an enemy or anything

[limpid pond]

It's a Gunner weapon, it's not exactly high skill floor

[thorn arrow]

Its the trails damage you want which will set everything near on fire

[thorn jewel]

Oki doke

[thorn arrow]

[thorn jewel]

Ye, I just consider my gunner play closer to the ceiling than the floor, and didn’t wanna bother fumbling around a different weapon

[thorn arrow]

"Skill floors and ceilings? Whats that?" Said the gunner

[thorn jewel]

Main goal has just been efficient play and wins for xp and cores across classes

[soft token]

stun won’t be that useful since i’ve got it on my special “fuck you” flechettes burst

and armor break is NEVER worth it lol

[limpid pond]

[citation needed]

[ashen veldt]

ahoy, what's a good duo combo?

me and my buddy think maybe sludge driller for AOE x burn build

[limpid pond]

Driller + Scout or Engi + Scout body most missions. Driller + Engi for Industrial Sabotage, Gunner + Scout for Escort Duty.

[glossy walrus]

I've tried all 3 trail coilgun setups, found I prefer the umc clean the most, via just firing 25% shots before/into crowds and cleaning up with the direct fire primary afterwards

the hit + trail from a 25% shot will kill grunts even on haz5, and the trail alone will either kill or mostly kill them, so the clean's +duration with a bit of aoe is comfy

hellfire shots are strong for sure, but kinda overkill a lot of the time, and the shorter trail duration doesn't cc things as well

tripletech is nice coverage without a duration penalty, but it has a reload+charge penalty and I find that for smaller groups (esp at a distance) I don't even need to pull out my primary, can just keep shooting 25% shots to wipe them all super cheaply, so the penalties makes that a bit more annoying

[limpid pond]

Driller + Scout for Mining Expeditions since they're both the fastest. But if it's short enough, anyone can do.
Engi + Scout for Egg Hunts. Engi sets up a safe zone so Scout has freedom to Egg grab. Driller + Scout also works for speedrunning.
Driller + Scout for On-Site Refinery and Point Extraction. Driller does objective, Scout grabs minerals. Gunner (zip) + Scout (zoom) also works for PE.
Engi + Scout for Salvage Operation. Scout for quick exploration, Engi to defend the holdouts. Driller + Engi also works to guarantee easy holdouts.
Gunner + Scout for Escort Duty. Gunner fights off the swarms, Scout grabs the minerals. You can also do Driller + Gunner to pre-drill, but that's ineffective for 3 Length. Escort Duty will always be a massive pain in the ass duo.
Driller + Scout for Elimination. Sludge Blast + IFG + Embedded Detonators bodies every Dread type. But any class combo works fine here.
Driller + Engi for Industrial Sabotage. Driller to cook bots and clear bad terrain, Engi to defend the Hacking Pods and build a bridge to Caretaker. Anyone else will give you a very hard time.

I've spent most of my playtime on Haz 5 2P, this is basically what I've experienced.

[soft token]

citation is that it literally only works on two bugs

qronar shellback and praetorian

and you can just move around the armor

[limpid pond]

Brundles? The Twins? Nemesis? Better TTK for low accuracy builds? M1000?

[glossy walrus]

m1000 really loves armor break to hit those breakpoints

engie turrets like their armor break too

[thorn jewel]

Murdering shellbacks before they knock your gunner/team into the air is really damn nice as a m1k scout

[terse vigil]

too the dwarves i did the 4 engie dd with im guessing the hosts game crashed but i had fun nonetheless rock and lads -Zargothrax [ice]

[thorn jewel]

Was not I but

[fluid cliff]

armor break on turrets is less useful than it seems

[limpid pond]

Why? Sentries aim for center of mass, it's basically a 20% damage increase vs Grunts.

[fluid cliff]

20% of 11 or 5 or 7 is not a large number

sentries on haz 5 don't really do much damage, but CC is invaluable and works on things the turrets generally can't even kill

they just spray stuns all over the place

armor break is a damage increase but ultimately 20% of a small number is still a small number

[minor bloom]

I'd agree with gleisle, would much rather have stun then armor break on haz 5

[jolly hazel]

not that much nitra this week

of course engineer, driller, and scout took probably the most ammo efficient builds possible

[dim bramble]

Not liking flamethrower with subata secondary

I ended up using the flamethrower 90% of the time so my subata just went used in EDD 1st stage

might of just been because of swarmeggeddon though

Kill 2 dreadnoughts

subata might be better than EPC for dreadnoughts so its whatever

[lime meteor]

I only run subtata cuz of explosive reload

[atomic prawn]

driller and engie is the goat duo

one removes material, one adds material, simple math

[dim bramble]

Failed the 2nd mission and im pissed

[atomic prawn]

EDD?

[dim bramble]

30 minutes down the drain

[atomic prawn]

F

[dim bramble]

it all started with me accidentally c4ing myself

[atomic prawn]

😂 yeah that'll do it

[dim bramble]

so I had only one revive

[atomic prawn]

Oh, solo. Rip

[dim bramble]

Yeah

Takes forever to get a squad

[atomic prawn]

no luck with the LFG channel here?

[dim bramble]

ill just do EDD with a squad if I can find one

[atomic prawn]

gl

[dim bramble]

I dont use the LFG channels

Plus with the possible ping difference I just stick to public missions

[atomic prawn]

yeah fair nuff

I don't either 😂 I have my own regular group

[tall meadow]

NA ?

[dim bramble]

EDD without OCs sucks a bit

wish I had atleast one flamethrower OC

I’d imagine I’ll get one soon though

[atomic prawn]

no oc is defs harder, but solo is just 🗿

[dim bramble]

Already found a squad

[tall meadow]

3rd time the charm kek

[limpid pond]

I doubted this, so I tested it myself, and huh, you're right. Did 10 tests for single 1x11, double 1x11, single 1x21, and double 1x21 in Sandbox Utilities, timed with a stopwatch, averaged the times. Single Hardened Rounds had a 3.38 second TTK. Two had a 1.805 second TTK. Single Stun had a 3.516 second TTK. 2 Stun had a 2.162s TTK.
Single Hardened Rounds Gemini had a ~4% better TTK than Stun, though this could be a fluke due to varying burst timings.
Double Hardened Rounds Gemini has the expected ~20% better TTK, but it's less than half a second difference in the time it takes to kill a single Grunt. That time difference would easily add up vs a horde of Grunts, but Stun also has the benefit of, well, Stun.
Crazy how I still learn new things after 1,400+ hours.

[fluid cliff]

me with 200 hours patting myself on the back

appreciate the tests

another thing that may not quantify in the test is that at long range stunning a grunt will land more turret shots

but things such as mactera being forced to sit so somebody can tap them and what not is very nice for everyone on the team

[urban snow]

Do you also take Hawkeye for T4 I'm guessing?

[fluid cliff]

gemini defender always

[urban snow]

Lowering your damage output that much on Haz5, how do the turrets still do against swarmers and jellies

[fluid cliff]

1221 is the only thing I ever run

[dim bramble]

just realized I was soloing DD and not EDD somehow..

when I 100% pressed EDD

[limpid pond]

But then again, this is just vs Grunts. And with Hardened Rounds, they're still going to be killing faster with less ammo used. I haven't tested vs Heavy Armor. And Stun is going to be less effective/useless vs Stun resistant creatures.

[fluid cliff]

to be fair to myself though all 200 hours of this is engi

and yeah it might crack a praetorian shell or something but again you have to consider that turrets aren't killing beefy enemies

they are supplemental at best

a turret dealing 13% of the total damage to a praetorian instead of 11% (I made these numbers up but you get it) doesn't make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things

as far as extreme value for turrets it's going to be jellies, swarmers, and shredders and none of those breakpoints change with either choice

and the same as stun immune enemies some enemies don't have armor either

[dim bramble]

mactera plague EDD is the most infuriating thing I’ve ever played

[dim bramble]

Im so confused right now

I swore I did deep dive already

but it shows that I didnt idk

I dont even know anymore ill just re-attempt both deep dives tomorrow

[balmy stone]

Maybe you didn’t restart the game after the new ones dropped

[edgy vault]

What are the sand box utilities and how to get them?

[hollow citrus]

I wonder if we're getting a new warning for s3 like rival presence in s2

if we are the EDD that week is gonna have it for sure

[topaz sluice]

The DD was pretty nice. Time for the EDD >:D

[steel palm]

We need more sand blasted corridor DDs

[pale sigil]

https://drg.old.mod.io/sandbox-utilities/. it's a mod

[topaz sluice]

Also pretty nice EDD. Played with some greenbeards, but I'm glad to say we got through it haha

[thin basin]

Is there enough people playing deep dive on xbox? I always see greyed out party on the lobby and Idk why

[urban snow]

Greyed out lobby means the dive is already in-progress and you can't late join DDs

Not sure about how active xbox is, but you can always try hosting a lobby and see if people join up

[frank viper]

Tips for this weeks EDD, what builds are strong

[urban snow]

thats a long list. what do you like to play?

[frank viper]

anything but scout really

Have most overclock on engi and driller

[urban snow]

My favorites are flamethrower/epc on driller, Loki/fat boy or shotty/hyperprop on engi, or autocannon/brt7 on gunner

[frank viper]

cheers

[ionic snow]

hii, i just started the game and i js want to ask whos good to main

for starters

[limpid pond]

Start with Driller or Gunner. They have the lowest skill floor. Engineer is a bit more complex, but I don't think it'd kill you to start with him. Scout is terrible for new players, only play him once you get a grasp on the basics.

Also, once you start playing someone, play only them and promote them first. The first promotion gives you a bunch of universal benefits.

[ionic snow]

okayyy thank you sm 🫶🥳

[limpid pond]

[grim hound]

just finished my first elite deep dive ever, this week's was hellish, never seen or killed as much swarmer as in this godforsaken first stage

[jolly hazel]

aoe moment

[grim hound]

bullet hell on the gunner did the trick, but I wish I took the wide trail armkore instead of the brt to be honest

[jolly hazel]

bullet hell 🤢

if you are using bullet hell probably best to stick to brt for some kind of direct damage

[grim hound]

yep, used the lead spray oc for burst on big targets

work like a charm, even on waves with piercing bullet

but i like bullet hell actually, it really does the work to wipe trash waves and spread the burn

[limpid pond]

Why Blowthroughs on Lead Spray???

[grim hound]

Doesn't it work? Each time I click it deletes a wave so...

it's not like I lack damage with this, so A is a bit overkill, and I don't really have precision problem either to justify B

[limpid pond]

Isn't that what your primary and grenades are for? Why spray something that likely isn't going to hit weakpoints, is low on ammo because it's a secondary, and is going to miss a lot of its shots when 13232 Lead Spray kills Haz 5 4P Oppressors in a single magazine?

[grim hound]

I like going with recoil dampeners and more ammo, tried a few times with a few builds and this one just....Works for me I guess

I'll retry with high velocity rounds though, just to see how much Oumph it can get

[jolly hazel]

with lead spray you should be taking mod2 for tier 1 (floating barrel, less spread)

[limpid pond]

Why?

[jolly hazel]

because lead spray has x4 spread?

21231 is fine

[grim hound]

yeah I tried it, I like it but I don't have that much problem to hit without it at mid and close range so I treid something else

[jolly hazel]

with weak spot mod it has way more than enough dps

[limpid pond]

T1 damage lets you 1 mag kill Oppressors.
T1 spread gives a mild accuracy increase on a weapon you're just going to jam up enemy asses anyway.

The acc mods on BRT in general are trap mods. Base BRT is pretty accurate already, and with Lead Spray, you miss big breakpoints without all the damage mods

[jolly hazel]

total damage increase is roughly 400

id rather take ease of use over something that small

also base spread goes from 400% to 280% because the oc modifier is applied first

[limpid pond]

It's not a total damage argument, it's a significant DPS increase on something that you're not supposed to be using at mid/long range anyway

[jolly hazel]

its a big deal lol

[grim hound]

I usually take the max ammo upgrade though

[jolly hazel]

I used to take max ammo then I saw how much it does to weakspots (when you should. 3 using it)

[grim hound]

hmmm, i'll give it another look then

[jolly hazel]

being able to kill oppressors 1 second faster is not worth not wasting a quarter of my ammo trying to actively kite a praetorian

[limpid pond]

Just throw a Sticky?

[jolly hazel]

or whatever random situation I get into where I cannot get next to bug

[limpid pond]

Well that's what your primary's for

[jolly hazel]

sticky dmg is shit

primary is AoE if im bringing brt lol

[grim hound]

ditto

[limpid pond]

It's not about the damage, it's about the fact that it Fears them and gives you an easy opening to shoot their ass

[limpid pond]

Why are you bringing Lead Spray if you can't hit far away targets with your primary?

Hurricane isn't exactly hurting for long range damage, for instance

[grim hound]

honestly with bullet hell, far or close, is the same stuff, you don't need precision when your bullets aim for you heheheh

I also like how it can basically "ping" enemies you can't even see yet, so many leeches avoided by a lucky bounce

[jolly hazel]

dps goes down the shitter

[jolly hazel]

I can hit them, but I'm not killing anything bigger than a guard in a timely manner with carpet bomber/splintering shells. its a waste to even shoot at them because scout should (hopefully) deal with them

and hurricane is gimped/sidegrade autocannon, I think we have had that discussion before

[limpid pond]

"Hurricane is gimped Autocannon" is not even close to true, but sure

[jolly hazel]

thats a good use, I usually bring incendiary for aoe in a direction I dont want to care about. but I can just move around it once I bait acid spit

[jolly hazel]

what does hurricane do better than autocannon

[limpid pond]

How do you even kill Mactera? Sounds like you're expecting Six Shooter or Experimental Rounds performance from Lead Spray

[jolly hazel]

shoot them with lead spray because they fire at a range with anti-spread mod that i one button kill them

big glowing weak spot

with weak spot mod

[limpid pond]

Bigger radius, better range and accuracy, better CC without NTP, better single target DPS
Like you said, we've been over this

[jolly hazel]

hurricane aoe mod that makes it .1m better is an ammo mod tier

range and accuracy are offset by travel time and forced tracking

best cc is death

[limpid pond]

I'd also like to add that Jet Fuel Homebrew beats out Big Bertha in DPS due to +50% weakpoint bonus https://karl.gg/asv/14/BBAAA5#/ https://karl.gg/asv/20/BBBAB6#/

[jolly hazel]

once autocannon ramps up, close range dps is better

I'll give it long range dps because it has a nice blend of autocannon/minigun pros and cons at that exact range

[jolly hazel]

big bertha a shit

[limpid pond]

I agree, but "Big Bertha OP" is a very popular opinion

[jolly hazel]

I wish autocannon had interesting overclocks like new guns but need to wait for another oc pass I guess lol

[limpid pond]

HONESTLY

[jolly hazel]

also I assume you are pretty good at the game, good players will find success no matter what combo they use

jet fuel homebrew is probably the best oc with frag missiles being close 2nd

[limpid pond]

Too many of the older wep OC selections are just:
Clean +Ammo
Clean +Damage
Balanced +Damage -Ammo
Balanced +Ammo -Damage
Unstable +Damage -Ammo
Actually Cool Unstable

Like look at Minigun vs Hurricane. Or GK2 vs DRAK. Or PGL vs Shard Diffractor.

I'd really like if there was a balance passover update to clean up stuff like Subata and GK2, and to make the lamer Overclocks generally more interesting and less "The +Ammo -Damage is always numerically superior". But Update 34 was that and it had a terrible result, and GSG mostly seems interested in just pushing out new things with the new Season model, so it's just a pipe dream :\

Like, jeez https://karl.gg/blog/29#/

[jolly hazel]

after new primary, secondary, and grenades i assume its the next step in the pipeline

[limpid pond]

People screamed about Tuned Cooler and Heat Pipe nerfs when they're still BIS for their weapons, but people just saw "nerf" and went apeshit
NTP and Volatile Bullets got buffed to their current states and never received any nerfs since despite possibly being the most OP OCs in the entire game
Just a lot of general nothingburger changes that didn't affect/simply swapped meta picks instead of adding meaningful diversity

Do you know how many people still say Hurricane is "unusable" and "unfun" because Napalm-Infused Rounds isn't the most flagrantly overpowered thing to ever exist anymore?

Players moan and groan about how "balance doesn't matter" whenever something OP gets a deserved nerf, but the people here always seem to get their panties in a twist whenever you suggest buffing actually weak things like Scout's arsenal for some reason.

You know, I used to be a balance tester for this one game. Niche JRPG, we toned down the more OP strats and super buffed the weaker stuff. And in exchange, we got even more OP things added, and many nerfs reverted all because one (1) person whined. Literally a single, barely coherent comment completely undid months of math and discussion and developer pleading. And I think about that a lot, because Deep Rock's community seems to be almost entirely populated by That Guy.

People will tell you straight to your face that the weapon with the largest radius and AoE damage in the game is unusable because it got some inconsequential nerf one billion years ago. And I think about that any time I see some weird change like the Hurricane T13 buffs. Or the DRAK nerfs.

At least we have modding.

[glossy walrus]

I will second fm doing better than ss/cb for me, tried em all out and fm just felt the best. yeah gotta deal with that travel time which is noticable at medium ranges, but being able to place the center of the shot exactly where you want it (middle of the group) is quite nice

hurricane has the stun on it too, very nice for stunning a guard then giving it a brt burst to the face

same deal for stunning a group of mactera to give more time to brt them

[limpid pond]

Or just killing the Mactera because +50% weakpoint bonus

[glossy walrus]

for the ones directly hit sure, but in a big swarm there's going to be ones you won't necessarily be able to shoot down in time, then the stun gives it a nice benefit over ac there

can potentially save a shield or increase chances of being able to clean up the swarm before a shield ends

[limpid pond]

I don't understand the logic of "I should stop shooting my large AoE, stunning weapon that sufficiently kills Mactera so I can swap to my weapon that only hits one of them at a time"

Unless you mean while reloading

[glossy walrus]

oh, I was talking general hurricane vs ac stuff there, not specifically the swapping to brt bit

[limpid pond]

Like, really. I have never seen as many ignorant, bad-faith takes in any gaming community as I have browsing Reddit comments or saying anything at all in #drg-chat. I know this is pretty off-topic, but frankly I really like this channel and #interplanetary-miners-union because they're pretty much the only place I can say anything DRG related without being subjected to the insane, terminally online provocateurs.

[fluid cliff]

I mean I can only speak from an engi perspective but people are adamant that the stubby is bad or the shotgun is bad but while they may be boring they’re incredibly effective

I’m sure we’ll see more balance sweeps

[limpid pond]

There's a balance mod that adds Blowthroughs to Stubby because "Electric Arc is OP and Stubby needs other competitive AoE" 💀

[fluid cliff]

sigh

[limpid pond]

Tbh they're fine, they're just weak in comparison to ECR just being a do everything primary

Other than stuff with Cycle Overload or Turret EM Discharge, it's very hard for anything Warthog and Stubby can do to compete with ECR + Hyper Prop/Overdrive Booster.

[bold maple]

they cant be too over the top/flashy because engies secondaries exist

[limpid pond]

Explosive Chemical Rounds is like if PGL was your primary

Astounded that people will defend base LOK-1 just because ECR is OP and Executioner is decent

[bold maple]

lol

i love the "balance" mods people put out

most of them make absolutely no sense

[limpid pond]

Most of them are just stat pumps that try as hard as they can to skirt around the "50% better = Sandbox" rule to single weapons, any actually balance oriented total overhauls have been deprecated forever

[bold maple]

"i suck at this weapon so i made it OP"

🤓

[limpid pond]

I wonder if it's unfair to paint those as balance oriented mods

[glossy walrus]

people having bad takes and then modding stuff to suit their skill level is pretty normal for any gaming community, drg isn't out of the ordinary for it at all. I saw it all the time coming from monster hunter, it's just part of the mentality of being on pc. there's access to the ability to change stuff to your liking so many will just do that rather than learn how something was meant to be used

console side in general we gotta make do with what we have, so people either learn or quit (or play low haz in this case)

they'll still be complaining the entire time though, that's standard no matter where it's being played

[bold maple]

"reduces the damage of monsters supernovas(i cant dodge)"

[limpid pond]

There's a handful of GK2 buff mods, and Nuke It A Little More, Sam for CWC seems to be actually trying to be fair. There's just not a lot of them because A, this shit is hard work, and B, See: community reaction to Napalm nerfs

[bold maple]

🤓

[glossy walrus]

"fair <monster>", cuts damage in half

[bold maple]

"fair fatalis" (i dont want to challenge myself with the game)

[steep bluff]

To be fair, Fatalis isn't (I have soloed him)

But that's just how people are. Instead of learning the mechanics and learning and engaging with them, it's just "easier" to circumvent them entirely. And people who don't wanna engage with the mechanics set by the game will do that instead of getting good

[limpid pond]

This is from CVO, an overhaul mod that's been deprecated since Season 01. It's honestly just a select weird change in a mod that overall makes things much more better/interesting, and it's honestly been a huge inspiration for my own work. All the damage/ammo shuffle OCs are replaced, and a lot of weapons have their mod tree redone entiretly. Blowthroughs Stubby is still dumb though lmao

[bold maple]

eh, i think its fine to have a monster like him as the final boss

its meant to be a literal black dragon, a god status monster

[limpid pond]

Like yeah, I can laugh at that, and the fact that Inferno of all Breach Cutter OCs gets huge buffs, and the fact that it nerfs Special Powder, but I'm 👀📝 for how they overhauled CRSPR, Minigun, BRT, etc.

[bold maple]

it took me a week to beat him with solo and duo attempts with a friend i think. like nonstop attempts, probably over 50

[glossy walrus]

he also gives the most busted armor in the game, 99% of setups no longer need anything else after getting it, so I'm fine with a challenge. took me the better part of a day of straight attempts to get my solo through

[bold maple]

i was astonished at how long it took me to beat him with longsword

i never specc'd into defensive builds because i was so determined for it to just be me vs the monster and not too much extra help

just health boost 3 and eating

[steep bluff]

Just make the time limit 50 minutes, that's all I ask of it. The fight itself has some stuff I really don't like (his damage is so fucking chunky I may as well stop playing lance and use BG; oh wait I do now, hitzones are way larger than they appear etc) but I think the challenge is warranted for Fatalis. That all said whoever said "30 minutes or bust" was high

[glossy walrus]

the more defensive setups won't beat him in time anyway, the time limit, while an annoying bit of artificial difficulty, looked to be meant to stop that

[bold maple]

yeah i can see that. we beat it with like 3-4 mins on the timer left

we eventually got to phase 3 with ALL our faints left somehow, spent quite a few faints just beating phase 3 cause of nerves

we took partbreaker 3 and got one horn break

[steep bluff]

I have legitimate issues with Fatalis as a fight but that's not a conversation to be had here in Deep Dive Chat

[bold maple]

yeah i was using cookie cutter MT/raging brachy

[steep bluff]

My man 🤝

[glossy walrus]

I found it fine with lance, mostly just that you have to react to certain moves differently than you normally do, but it was one of the comfier weapons I ended up soloing with

[bold maple]

my friend ran crit draw greatsword i think, similar setup as far as armor/weapon

but anyway. yeah its deep dive chat lol

[steep bluff]

I find diving deeply is very exciting and fun

🙂

[bold maple]

feel free to ping in #non-drg-chat if you need to nerd out more

[steep bluff]

Gladly

[waxen kiln]

where do i find what the deep dive consists of this week

[fluid cliff]

the pins

[waxen kiln]

Ty

[echo storm]

lost connection to server on stage 3 of dd

lol

[jolly hazel]

brt stun mod is nice for that reason

[jolly hazel]

same lol, we disagree but at least it's civil-ish

[jolly hazel]

ammo economy, would rather save ammo on the weapon with AoE capability versus the funny weakspot gun if there are funny weakspot enemies

you take weakpoint mod on hurricane?

I dont understand why weakpoint modifier isn't standard between weapons

33% on stubby, 50% on hurricane

[fluid cliff]

30 on stub

and because

[trail pivot]

a weakpoint for t4 on cwc sounds fun

[torn verge]

game balance
also so that you get a decent amount of value out of weakpoint damage hurricane because weakpoint modifiers don't apply to area damage

[glossy walrus]

yeah sounds like mostly aimed balance for how valuable it makes a gun for spraying vs precise weakspot hits, eg subata's low base but highest weakpoint mod at 80% or w/e

[limpid pond]

Shrapnel Load lets you two shot Grunts on the face, it's the best mod for everything other than Minelayer

[jolly hazel]

oh great now i have to make eye contact with the bugs

[hoary cove]

weakpoint dmg with frag missiles actually makes hurricane pretty well rounded imo

i still usually prefer area dmg tho cus it makes the gun feel like carpet bomber with stun

[limpid pond]

Gunner mains when they get shot in the head but it only hits their brain

[wraith flame]

Non DRG chat is a mistake

And deep drives are great

[wraith flame]

IMO I think all of the NG primaries are fine for the most part and pretty balanced. Stubby is great, shotty is king, loki is awesome

[trail pivot]

Pgl should just be an event gadget

[torn verge]

it's not that the warthog is boring imo it's that the overclocks for it are boring
none of them are truly transformative, like hyperprop or ECR or turret discharge/arc are
which is a bit of a petty complaint, that this weapon isn't also 2 other weapons

[limpid pond]

Cycle Overload is transformative IMO, but yes, this is a problem with many Overclocks

[wraith flame]

Mini shells turns it into a machine gun kind of and with MPA you can turn it into a rifle, you can turn it into a stun lock machine too. Lots of options, no reason to be too transformative, that is why you have other weapons and classes

[trail pivot]

I'd like to turn it into a winchester

[wraith flame]

Use MPA and some damage mods and you can snipe bugs with it

[limpid pond]

Look at Boomstick's selection vs Boltshark's. Boomstick has 4 Cleans, a +acc -ammo Balanced, and a +damage -ammo Unstable. The only thing that does anything interesting is Special Powder.
Meanwhile, Boltshark has two boring Cleans, sure. But Fire Bolt, Cryo Bolt, Bodkin Points, and Trifork Volley all drastically change the weapon. Their effectiveness is debatable, but the idea is definitely clear.

[hoary cove]

pretty much all of crossbows bolts are really good imo

[wraith flame]

Special powder is insane though, that is a crazy good OC

[hoary cove]

fire bolts, pheros and teslas being the standout ones to me at least

[balmy stone]

I haven’t had great success with cryo so the others yeah I agree

[limpid pond]

Forget viability, imagine if Boomstick had 5 other OCs around as fun as Special Powder. That's what a lot of weapons are sorely missing.

[hoary cove]

cryo bolts are also really good

[trail pivot]

Boomstick needs a sawed off badly

[limpid pond]

Why do Warthog and Zhukovs only have 5 OCs 💀

[limpid pond]

It already is the sawed off...

[trail pivot]

But it causes you yo rocket forward

[limpid pond]

Meathook? 👁️

[trail pivot]

And then back for recoil

[lime meteor]

2 handed = not sawed off?

small shotgun still

[trail pivot]

Boosts the shock wave by a ton

[limpid pond]

Boomstick really needs an OC that messes with the shockwave somehow, I agree

[marble veldt]

The only good GK2 mod is mine

[trail pivot]

Here is an idea: While reloading the boomstick, flat terrain is slippery like ice.

[limpid pond]

That sounds terrible

[trail pivot]

+plus the previous idea

You rocket forward to to take a shot and the blast will send you back.

Dang, noone gets the reference

Anyway something that enabled ice skating anywhere would be fun

[wraith flame]

Think of another, it might be too OP then tbh.

[limpid pond]

Forget viability

[trail pivot]

There could also be something where the first and last shot function differently

[wraith flame]

Sounds like it could be cool

[limpid pond]

Like what I said about Boltshark. Boltshark is generally pretty stinky doo doo because funny Praetorian Piercing resist, but the Overclocks have fun concepts.

[hoary cove]

hard disagree

taser bolts get around the pierce resist if thats really what ur looking for

[trail pivot]

Only thing i can think of... If the first boomstick shot out a ton of caustic spikes with blowthrough and the second shot sucked them all back in sorta like the square gun from hyper light drifter.

Other than that the idea of skating around with a large mag boomstick...maybe if each kill froze the floor?

I cant imagine devs busting up collision for a single oc, but the idea of being able to skateboard with boomstick comes to mind

[limpid pond]

Spending 4 Tasers to kill a Praetorian after 12 seconds? When you only get 12/17? What's your plan for Oppressors?

[hoary cove]

4 tasers?

2 puts them down to about 25% hp

[limpid pond]

After 12 seconds.

[hushed sequoia]

they're nearly completely immobile so

[trail pivot]

Also you can chain larger enemies together

[hushed sequoia]

it's not too bad

[hoary cove]

yes, 12 seconds of them having a seizure in one spot lmao

[limpid pond]

Wait, 25%? Like, 1/4? Maybe on Haz 3, try 2/3.

[hushed sequoia]

just usually you won't get the value of a 12 second immobile praetorian in pubs

[trail pivot]

They've got to fix the last bolt being glitched in mp

[hushed sequoia]

also since when did deep dive discussions become "argument-channel-2"

[marble veldt]

2 taser bolts can kill a Haz 5 solo Praet from full HP, without any other investment than T5A

[limpid pond]

30 DPS for 12 seconds, plus the Taser impact damage is 410. H54P Prae has 1,125 health. I'm pretty sure base Zhukovs does better than that

[hoary cove]

i only play haz 5

[limpid pond]

Oh, solo, of course

[marble veldt]

4P would get down to roughly 25% HP

It would die with Specialist equipped

Taser Bolts are really strong

[trail pivot]

Yup

[marble veldt]

Like... Disgustingly so

[hoary cove]

tasers are the best way to deal with prats when using crossbow, but thats not the only thing they are good at

they make most HPTs a complete joke

[marble veldt]

Poor Bulks

Oh and they circumvent immunities too

You can Shock a Dread or an Oppressor

2 Taser bolts and an IFG and you got yourself a Dread on pause

[limpid pond]

Okay, another 3 seconds on Tasers. 30 x 15 = 450. Half health after 12 seconds. Base Zhukovs still do better.

[hoary cove]

u can take tri fork with it to spec crossbow fully into single target or take fire bolts so u have a well rounded weapon

[hoary cove]

do base zhukovs make the thing stand still for 12 seconds

[marble veldt]

The Arc does damage on top of the bolts themselves

[hoary cove]

the arc only stacks 1 time tho so adding more then 2 bolts is pointless

[limpid pond]

I'm literally measuring the arc damage

What do you think I'm talking about?

[marble veldt]

Don't make me tap the sign again...
"Maths ≠ Practice"

[limpid pond]

Okay, in practice I... pick a different secondary.

[marble veldt]

Not to mention I'm pretty sure said maths are flawed

[hoary cove]

crossbow has the benifit of bringing 2 bolts and therefore being much better rounded

fire bolts are still the best aoe scout has to offer and u can bring those with either pheros or tasers since they both have different use cases

[marble veldt]

If I can bring down a Praet from full Health (900 on solo Haz 5) with 2 Tasers, something tells me your maths don't check out

[wraith flame]

You say #drg-chat Is toxic but comments like this make me think it's not the chat. You are pretty passive aggressive

Also deep dives are great.

[hoary cove]

hoping they add hacksy to dives, even tho its probably an uncommon opinion

[wraith flame]

That would be cool. Idk see why not. Add a lot of stuff.

[limpid pond]

Okay, bolt DoT (32 x 15) + arc DoT (30 x 15) + 50 impact damage from 2 bolts = 980 damage

[limpid pond]

"X is perfectly ammo efficient, stop whining" or "Y literally one shots Praes" and you discover they're talking about Haz 3 solo is a very common experience

[hoary cove]

980 dmg for very little time investement is pretty good imo, especially when it also makes the target stand still

[limpid pond]

Once I saw a comment saying Elemental Insulation is OP because it prevents Acid Spitters from breaking shields.
The Kinetic damage (not resistent by Insulation) from an Acid Spitter shot breaks shields by itself on Haz 5.

[limpid pond]

Yeah, better than expected

[hoary cove]

pretty sure tesla bolts 2 shot patrollers

[limpid pond]

But what about Oppressors?

[hoary cove]

obvously not

[marble veldt]

I'll give you benefit of the doubt. You had no idea to know I play regularly on Haz 5 (solo or not).
Also, since you probably don't know me either, I'll tell you this:
I never pull things out of nowhere. Everything I say has been tested and or studied.
I am a dwarf of facts

[hoary cove]

ew facts

[limpid pond]

The "large game hunter" crossbow can't hurt Oppressors. Nonsense design.

[hoary cove]

making it stand still for 12 secs is pretty nice, just jump on its head and wait for power attack recharge

[marble veldt]

Crossbow is the second best Scout secondary to deal with Oppressors tho, after ED and other specific Zhuks builds

Granted, it only has one build able to do so, namely Mag Shafts Trifork

[limpid pond]

Which it takes half damage from...

[marble veldt]

That still chunks em nicely

Especially in an IFG

[hoary cove]

if i want an oppressor dead i usually do 2 tesla bolts, then throw ifg, then power attack

if im using ED i do ifg, unload ED, then power attack

[marble veldt]

If I have Trifork, I do the same except I just throw an IFG and shoot its butt, then PA

[hoary cove]

considering crossbow keeps things in place a long ass time and has the benifit of bringing another bolt type for different purposes, i think these are pretty comparable in strength

[wraith flame]

Are embedded detonators strong?

[hoary cove]

its hard to measure utility compared to ED's sheer dps

[marble veldt]

Yeah I was more thinking about TTK optimization

[limpid pond]

Maybe Boltshark should've been a goo gun or something because it's good at everything other than actual large game hunting

[marble veldt]

Literally the strongest DPS in the game

[wraith flame]

Suh-weet. I just got em.

[marble veldt]

Build for max ammo and accuracy

[wraith flame]

Roger roger

[hoary cove]

loki was marketed as a swarm clear gun. I never use it as the devs showcased but its still a pretty strong gun

[limpid pond]

It's not even good single target without Executioner

[hoary cove]

id say its pretty alright given the 50m range and electric chem rounds

imo the best way to build base loki is just 11111

[limpid pond]

LOK-1 have a build other than x1111 challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

[hoary cove]

i mean wud u say shotty without ocs is all that amazing in comparison?

[limpid pond]

Yes, because you at least have an ammo pool

[hoary cove]

iv used ocless shotty and ocless loki quite a bit but the main difference in power to me is turret whip

im not a stickler for ammo efficiency unless the difference is massive, like bullet hell vs base minigun

[marble veldt]

LOK1 can't miss
That's why you have "less" ammo

(Big quotation marks)

LOK1 ammo pool is fine imo