#wiki-related-chatroom

1 messages · Page 69 of 1

glacial topaz
shell frigate
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We do have a file history thing and looking at S1 P13 it's still 500

wraith ore
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When using "Controlled Magnetic Flow" and "Hellfire" OC on coilgun, not fully charged shots leave a non-heat trail. Bug or intended?

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Plz help somebody, I need this information for correct localization

glacial topaz
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I mean, I have no idea at all
but by just looking at the text
"By using a highly volatile injection fuel the trail radius greatly increases and at a full charge pushes the temperature changes so high it heats up anything in it. The huge amounts of energy required reduces charge time and battery capacity."

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unless there is some reason to expect it to leave a heat without full charge

wraith ore
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Uh, oh was orienting on the previous wrong localization. For whatever reason I decided that its also unmentioned in original

weary sonnet
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@tranquil hazel checked in game, for some reason the piercing resistance doesn’t apply to tri-jaw indeed.
It doesn’t work on brundle either.

glacial topaz
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Do we have the heat numbers for the cooker and/or other guns yet ?
Interesting that it seems a bit harder to find, I think
Wiki still using % hue

weary sonnet
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MeatShield shoul have them, the repo is up to date for hotfix 1, patch 1 isn’t there yet.

glacial topaz
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Will cooker Temp Amp + Exo reactor conflict ?
making it harder to trigger the temp shocks effects for example

wraith ore
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Is it just me or its a highly wrong description. The trail doesn't ignite ground, it applies heat to enemies by itself

unknown.png
bold plover
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Aerosolized scorpion pepper trail following the trajectory path.

wraith ore
silent sierra
gaunt cipher
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Is there anything that scales creature ignition/freeze temps? My impression is no.

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Also Nemesis voicelines reference 2001 and WarGames as well as Blade Runner, not sure if there's any others

floral drift
floral drift
gaunt cipher
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"My god, it's full of stars" is 2001, "The only winning move is not to play" is WarGames, and there's two Blade Runner ones-"I have seen BET-C glitter in the dark" and another I'm forgetting atm

gaunt cipher
floral drift
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yes, that is correct. Player Count and Hazard level have no effect on enemies' temperatures.

merry kernel
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If we're cataloging nem voicelines I've heard "This wasn't a triumph" as a portal reference

gaunt cipher
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All reference voicelines either from AI or in media containing AI

radiant edge
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Devs sure watch a lot of movies

glacial topaz
silent sierra
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It looks like the Taser Arrow does different amounts of damage depending on where in a creature's body it lands. It can also deal different damage depending on if a creature is moving or not.

silent sierra
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I've seen the Taser Bolts stop dealing damage to a Praetorian after it opens its mouth too. The bolt was lodged in the jaw and stopped being in contact with the rest of the creature's hitbox once the jaw opened up.

floral drift
# glacial topaz Do we have the heat numbers for the cooker and/or other guns yet ? Interesting t...

just finished preliminary testing and calculations.

Driller Wave Cooker
Max Heat (before Overheating/Jamming): 3.0
Overheat/Unjam duration: 2.0
Delay before cooling off: 0.2 sec
Cooling Rate: 3.0
Heat Generation/sec: 0.93?

Ammo consumed RoF does not affect Heat Generation, just like Minigun. Effective "MagSize" is Math.floor(3*RoF/(0.93*HeatGen%))

so, if you let go of it at 99% Heat, it will wait 0.2 sec and then start cooling off from 2.99 Heat at -3 Heat/sec -> ~1.2 sec. Cooling Rate mods affect the 1 sec, but so far i haven't seen anything that affects that +0.2 delay. ranges from 0.8 sec cooldown at 167% cooldown rate to 2.2 sec cooldown at 50% cooldown rate i think.

glacial topaz
#

interesting
that heat gen number is so odd though lol

floral drift
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Heat Gen was the one that i had to actually calculate through moderate trial-and-error

glacial topaz
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rip, other guns with similar mechanics seemed way easier to find everything we need
wonder how to better discover what is going on with the cooker heating

floral drift
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i've had pretty good success using a combination of

  • Gamefiles (courtesy of Elythnwaen)
  • In-game numbers
  • UUU Console commands
  • Doing tests to gather data
  • Math
glacial topaz
#

performance pass page, the rival presence part got changed . no?
on patchnotes saying it gets reduced after you get all scrips for it
also, pretty sure that data rack one is 8 now , though wonder if we gonna keep the old S1 info somewhere

unknown.png
tranquil hazel
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is there no more class challenge?

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no, there is, I completed one the other day

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aaand I currently have one

austere fossil
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They're just cut off since they weren't the point of his question.

unknown.png
pseudo locust
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Does anyone know the numbers for the Blistering Necrosis OC?

floral drift
pseudo locust
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Interesting, ty

glacial topaz
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welp, didn't know it was limited like that per second, sad
which means that it is best to burst fire ?

floral drift
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if you're trying to optimize WP creation, yeah. just fire until one spawns, wait a 2-count, and then repeat

tranquil hazel
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is it known how much dreads' corrosive resistance was lowered by?

floral drift
short cloud
cyan beacon
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do y'all know if it's intentional that lost pack armour paints are now no longer class locked?

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just got this from a pack, and according to the wiki topsoil defender should only be available to gunner

bold plover
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All lost pack armor materials are available on all classes now, likely due to a bug.

tranquil hazel
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so it gives you the skin for all classes when you unlock it?

cyan beacon
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seems to be a seperate drop per class, I've only got Topsoil on engi and gunner rn

tranquil hazel
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I've had all lost equipment drops for ages, and I'm not getting anything from them now

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I may not have tested it since the exp though

tranquil hazel
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ooop nope, I just got grunge buster (engi skin) for gunner from a lost pack, despite having all lost pack items

thick pelican
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Would you mind providing a link to the updated list once you're done testing?

silent sierra
knotty stratus
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The Shard Diffractor Charge Capacity stat is 75 instead of 50.

54270015-EFE6-48D9-8592-E3CDC49413E1.jpg
glacial topaz
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Expwrimental stuff, eh ?

glacial topaz
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this seems very wrong "after being destructed, it will destruct"
one of them is wrong, though not sure which one

  • Nemesis page
unknown.png
acoustic scarab
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After its health bar is depleted, it will engage in a self-destruct sequence

radiant edge
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Upon its incapacitation

glacial topaz
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talking about fixes I have to wonder when it would be best to get to fixing the text
wait for things to calm down and be added
or just be fixing while they are being done, there would be a bunch of S2 to pay attention too though...

tranquil hazel
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has anyone tested to see if dreads are immune to taser bolts or not?

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I know oppressors are not immune

tranquil hazel
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just tested it, they're not immune

delicate wadi
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Anyone know if overcharger on the coilgun actually works yet?

tranquil hazel
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I was under the impression it's always worked

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I've never heard that it wasn't working

delicate wadi
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Really? A lot of people were saying it didn't work in experimental

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Someone with a damage numbers mod should test

tranquil hazel
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I don't remember that, I remember Evan testing it a bunch and figuring out the exact number for it

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maybe those people didn't charge it enough

glacial topaz
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can't you just use any proper enemy and shoot
see if it kills or not

delicate wadi
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Well, base gun already instakills grunt tier enemies, I believe

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Have to test it on a pretorian

tranquil hazel
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you can test it on a slasher

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the regular shot will not kill it to the body, but will with overcharger

delicate wadi
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Hmn, do you know how much it adds to the damage?

tranquil hazel
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96

delicate wadi
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and if it's percentage/flat additive

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oh nice

tranquil hazel
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it's flat

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this is what I've been told at least

glacial topaz
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my issue is charging too much lol
I didn't have a clue on when to stop charging and it overheated
Tri-Jaw ?

tranquil hazel
delicate wadi
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Huh

tranquil hazel
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idk, the data is all fucky right now, test it and find out

delicate wadi
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alrighty, I'll whip up an egg hunt and see if there's a noticable damage change on a pretorian

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loading in now

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It's not a very noticable amount of damage? I'd have to use damage number mod to see

glacial topaz
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that is why we suggested something that would only be killed if the damage was boosted xD
as in, left with 1 hp by a normal shot

tranquil hazel
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a slasher

delicate wadi
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ah, gotcha

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maybe I should have tested with the ammo oc

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it reduces base damage

delicate wadi
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Also, I tested a normal burst without holding on a slasher, and it killed it regardless, it might have been b/c I was in a solo match

floral drift
delicate wadi
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haz4

tranquil hazel
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it shouldn't kill one in a single shot normally

delicate wadi
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Oh wait, it works with weakpoints?

tranquil hazel
delicate wadi
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I thought it was an aoe

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mb

tranquil hazel
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unless I've been misled, I'm pretty certain it hits WPs

floral drift
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Coilgun does indeed benefit from weak points. I suspect it has a small collision hitbox that might make hitting weakpoints from the side tricky, but straight on shots are easy to see the 2x or 3x damage. No innate bonus, as revolver has.

glacial topaz
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Question, is Nemesis supposed to spawn on salvage ? asking that since Unknown Horror is disabled afaik
though I guess you can make the case one can be killed and not the other...

bold plover
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Yes.

delicate wadi
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It's basically just a flying bulk in role and threat-level

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kills you if you get too close, carves through terrain, and causes explosions on death

glacial topaz
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wonder if the speed to HP ratio makes them similar
though I guess it is way easier to deal with bulk using Cryo / Cooker compared to Nemesis

delicate wadi
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and nemesis can be instakilled with heat

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(sometimes, I had it light on fire and not die)

bold plover
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Nemesis can be killed in seconds with some heat sources. I think BC Inferno would be a good one.

delicate wadi
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hellfire

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heat-flamer

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incindiary grenades

bold plover
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Yep.

tranquil hazel
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that's not a good justification

delicate wadi
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I mean, bulks spawn on salvage/escort

silent sierra
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Okay, I think the armor bug document is finally done.

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@thick pelican

thick pelican
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Thank you!

delicate wadi
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Jeeze, it varies quite a bit eh

silent sierra
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Despite appearances, the number of bugs affecting armor has gone down by a lot moving into Season 2.

thick pelican
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Wait... Armor regrows?

silent sierra
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Yup, that one was discovered by @versed halo a while ago.

thick pelican
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The hell...

silent sierra
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It's not uncommon to find people who were thinking that the M1000 is still bugged because of it too. If someone was too accurate with their shots they could end up having to three shot Grunts.

thick pelican
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But why

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How is that a thing

delicate wadi
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Is it like a client/host weird thing?

silent sierra
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I mean I'm more surprised by Praetorians and Guards giving special treatment to radial damage on their front left toes but nowhere else.

delicate wadi
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That's pretty weird

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I always felt like AB on the hurricane was weak, guess I know why now

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which is a shame, in theory it'd be pretty nice to be able to blast through armour with an automatic AoE weapon

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Also, interactions as a client are still buggy

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which can softlock/fail missions due to interactions being pretty damn important

glacial topaz
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ok, one thing
Should bugs be part of the wiki, and with what limitations ?

silent sierra
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Honestly I don't know the a good answer to that. Some bugs have been in the game long enough that they may as well be features at this point.

glacial topaz
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I mean, there is the "this affects everyone" like the beer buff stuff
and there is the "if you do this specific thing, and this other thing, it will make X happen"
someone posted a bug for infinite crossbow ammo and that bothers me

silent sierra
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Oh I see. Yeah it doesn't seem to make sense to have exploits on the wiki.

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Like say for example the exploit via autoclicker that allows the Minigun to fire every 10 milliseconds. That's not exactly a weapon feature so much as a bug I'm sure the devs would rather remove sooner than later.

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Or placing the Sentry Guns such that they poke into terrain which allows them to fire through the walls and floors of a cave.

glacial topaz
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oh lol, good word, "exploit" defines it well

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also rip x-x the mod table done doesn't even have the usual divisions between tiers

glacial topaz
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one thing
I have seen text refer to "the dwarves can" and also "the players can"
as in, completely different text styles
wonder how they should be used

gaunt cipher
silent sierra
#

As far as I've been able to tell, yes. The bug affects more breakpoints than that, but I figured I'd point that one out in particular since it's a pretty big part of some builds.

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I've never been able to get the M1k to fail at two shotting Grunts with any other armor plate.

delicate wadi
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I think a table that says 'in the current version of the game, despite it supposed to be doing X, it currently does Y'

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a sidebar or something

glacial topaz
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Is difractor range infinite ?

silent sierra
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As far as I can tell it is. It appears to behave like any other hitscan weapon.

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There's no mention of a range or reach stat in its files either.

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Besides radius that is.

glacial topaz
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what is up with all the unfinished tables... OCs ones I mean
Guessing the people that wanted to do it don't have the means to properly fill them up
and those that can got other things going on ?

  • Considering seeing what I can do
silent sierra
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I was spending my time testing armor stuff, but I should be able to start working on wiki data pretty soon now.

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Not sure how fast I can do it though.

glacial topaz
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any specific data ?
if it is for OCs, you mean Name + symbol + effect details + description + costs ?

silent sierra
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I've spent a bunch of time learning weapon damage numbers. I don't have any symbols or icons unfortunately anything. Stuff like the damage bonuses

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Most of my time this past week was spent just testing the mechanics of armor and the new guns.

glacial topaz
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just because things like description can just be copy pasted, and others are easy to get
so just having the base for it should be very good

silent sierra
glacial topaz
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Perfect, will be better that way

delicate wadi
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wave cooker has infinite range, right?

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it seems to be a sort of 'beam' esque weapon

glacial topaz
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I can see some range values for it
but not sure about how it is really used, like, if different effects have different ranges
maybe someone knows more already, but if you want to check, values seems to be 30 and 100 meters

delicate wadi
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Another thing, does phayzionite spawn more often in mineral mania?

austere fossil
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Anecdotally, I'd say yes. I got 22 on a Mineral Mania On-Site Refining (before the hazard bonus).

austere fossil
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110 * 0.7 = 77 explosive area damage
60 * 0.8 = 48 direct damage (because PGL AB is bugged)
77 + 48 = 125 damage which is the damage number seen in the video

unknown.png
glacial topaz
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not sure where to check that, but so far I can only see kinetic and explosive damage types
if it changed, can't recall how it was before

floral drift
old crypt
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do we know the heating/cooling rate of microwaves "temperature amplifier"

silent sierra
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Hey I was looking through the status effects that trigger Bullets of Mercy and discovered something interesting. It actually has the Shard Diffractor's Dazzler mod in the list of STE files that will trigger the damage bonus.

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Also the Boltshark's Pheromones for whatever reason.

tranquil hazel
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but not regular pheromones?

silent sierra
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Or turret arc as it so happens.

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But yeah, Bullets of Mercy works with all of the special bolts apparently.

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It also works with the poison from Contagion Transmitter which shouldn't be surprising, but Contagion Transmitter doesn't work with its own poison so I thought maybe Ghost Ship would have forgotten it here too.

tranquil hazel
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well the cooker is not meant to work properly, so that checks out

radiant edge
#

Has it ever been explained how the wave cooker works? Like its hard to tell if it only damages things around a specific impact point or if it takes into account obstructions while letting the rest of the microwaves shoot past it

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Like several raycasts being fired at the same time

acoustic scarab
#

Does the Rival Presence daily challenge award scrip or PP?

tranquil hazel
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1 scrip for 3 completed missions

acoustic scarab
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So, looking at the season, the tree requires a total of 92 scrip

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With 15 being given from the data cube early boost and 60 on the track, that leaves 17 for daily challenges

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I'm assuming those 17 scrip can be gained from any proportion of Data Racks and Rival Presence missions, but that's an open question for me

tranquil hazel
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that would be nice, cause it'd allow you to reroll the awful rival presence objectives for the more pleasant objectives

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but I somehow doubt that's how it works

glacial topaz
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Did you count correctly ? as in 91 is required for the tree
which fits correctly with the 8 Scrip limit for the rival , and 8 limit of racks, for 16 total

tranquil hazel
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that's such an annoying number, why not just make the PP scrip 1 less so it's 90?

glacial topaz
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because that would require levels to give 59 scrips, or data cubes to give 14

tranquil hazel
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so?

glacial topaz
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so the total would be 90 scripts

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e.g. 59 + 15 + 16 = 90
or 60 + 14 + 16 = 90

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well, though you would have to define what an annoying number means

tranquil hazel
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91 total is annoying, 59 as a part of 90 is fine

silent sierra
#

Collette's overclock table should be done now. I'll try getting to the Shard Diffractor tomorrow.

glacial topaz
#

aligment got messed up

unknown.png
silent sierra
#

Ah crap, my bad

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Should be fixed

glacial topaz
#

Awesome rocknstone

bold plover
#

idk if you guys want this but i made this for a mod image, could use a little more cropping but yeah

MK2Sentry.png
glacial topaz
#

wait, there is 2 models for sentries ???

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if there is then the turret page should show both

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on another note
Thoughts on a template for buttons ? many articles says "pressing the Use button" , then we later added , for example " "E" by default " ,
but I wondered if a template would be good measure, would allow for icons to be used , so like an E key, or left mouse button,
as well as controller buttons too

bold plover
tranquil hazel
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idk, I see them about 50/50

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though I always take 2 myself

silent sierra
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I have a soft spot for hawkeye so I usually take the single sentry personally.

idle tangle
#

So a user (Daze) tested and the Boiler Ray mod on the microwave works on frozen enemies, microwave also does more damage to frozen targets. Some of this might be known, but I was surprised about Boiler Ray at least.

versed halo
idle tangle
acoustic scarab
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However, I don't think the fact that 16 is an even number is enough to say we're locked into 8 sabotages + 8 presences in terms of scrip

glacial topaz
acoustic scarab
#

Sorry I assumed then, you didn't specify

weary sonnet
#

I also had that feeling, there may be something in PE that prevent it from spawing in some cases.

glacial topaz
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Given how easy it can be to explore any PE map...

weary sonnet
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Could ask the devs to confirm the spawn rate and check it.

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I mean a lost pack can be missed easily, but a cargo is pretty easy to find once you know most of the cave layout in PE.

glacial topaz
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Will see if I notice something too

weary sonnet
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Wait, the values seems completly differents for the crates in season 2, did they nerfed it?

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0, 0.1 and 0.15 in Season 2
0.1, 0.166, 0.33 before

acoustic scarab
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Wasn't in the notes

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Zero? As in, no cargo crates in length-1?

weary sonnet
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yes

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Seems pretty weird.

wicked cave
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is there a game data file that clearly defines spawn quantity parameters for primary/secondary objectives? seems like aquarq spawn count is way down (frequently zero extra aquarqs) and I'm encountering more and more hollomite secondaries that are either just enough or seem to come up short. feels like something is off. also had a 325 morkite mission last night where the cave was scoured and we had 15 extra morkite total

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wondering if we could confirm from the game data that something's off

weary sonnet
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There is a file that defines spawn quantity, but it defines the volume of spawned minerals in most cases rather than directly the value that we can use in game.
At least there is such a thing for morkite, gold, aquark and nitra iirc.

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Trying to find the location
RES_VEIN_Morkite should be the variable for the morkite mineral.

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The quantity spawned seems to be in GameElements>Resource>Veins

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There is probably a multiplier applied depending on the mission lenght.

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Default morkite spawn seems to be between 350 and 450.

glacial topaz
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what about GameElements > Objectives > OBJ_1st_PointExtraction ?
can see ""Gems Required": 10, "Gems Spawned Modifier": 0.2," , but nothing for 7 gems

weary sonnet
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FSD\Content\GameElements\Missions\DNA_Motherlode_Short
"MissionScale": 70.0

glacial topaz
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Lol xD
well 0.2 x 0.7 = 1.14
and 7 x 1.14 = 7.98

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So if it rounds down... that would be 7 still

wicked cave
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I'm more interested in deltas between versions I guess

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seems like "the magic parameter decreased with U36" would probably be enough evidence

weary sonnet
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Do you mean for the morkite spawn?

wicked cave
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I would be curious about the delta for any of the primary / secondary objectives, I think

weary sonnet
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Let me check quickly.

short cloud
wicked cave
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don't mean to provide busywork - but if you have it at your fingertips, I won't stop you 😉

glacial topaz
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delta being the variation ?

wicked cave
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yes, did the value change between versions (like for cargo crate)

glacial topaz
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Apoca , Boolo, fossil = 30%
Gunk = 25%
Ebonut = 20% ?

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LOL, I didn't know dystrium was banned on Azure weald, or someone have said already and I forgot

austere fossil
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#patch-notes-steam

Fixed a bug where long Point Extraction missions would have 10 or less Aquarqs spawning
ayyyy

wicked cave
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oh, patch finally dropped? dang that was a dry spell

weary sonnet
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Escort changed, they completely changed the files here so hard to tell what changed, but according to the patch notes it should be the amount of nitra.

Refinery (liquid morkite I think) mission scale changed from 130 to 160 for complexity 3
Refinery mission scale changed from 100 to 120 for complexity 2

wicked cave
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wonder if that means longer "pumping" time

weary sonnet
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Salvage MissionScale: 130 > 180 (complexity 3)
MissionScale: 90 > 140 (Complexity 2)

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I think MissionScale if for any minerals/objectives inside like gold, nitra, crafting minerals and such.

wicked cave
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ah

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I wonder if they've cleaned up some spaghetti code where that value was used in a more complex calculation to arrive at the final spawn rate, could explain why the net outcome is feeling "different"

weary sonnet
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StarComplex (no idea what mission that is)
MissionScale 100 > 170 (complexity 3)
MissionScale 80 > 120 (complexity 2)

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Egg Hunt: Spawn Interval: 180-220 > 190-220

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Elimination:
Spawn Interval: 350 > 225

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Escort:
Spawn Interval: 500 > 350
PE:
Spawn Interval: 180-220 > 190-220
Refinery:
Spawn Interval: 250 > 220
Salvage:
Spawn Interval: 150 > 110

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Theses are the main changes for the missions.

glacial topaz
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isn't Star Complex the Elimination missions

shell frigate
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Yeah

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Refed in GameElements/Missions/MissionType_Elimination

glacial topaz
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being star due to how the cave is shaped

weary sonnet
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Elimination is elimination though so why give it two names?

glacial topaz
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ask Motherlode lol

tranquil hazel
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Multiple people, including me, have noticed escorts have notably less nitra sometimes

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Not always, but pretty often

shell frigate
short cloud
shell frigate
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Would seem it given all most are decreasing, but only devs can anwser

weary sonnet
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Yes, that’s a typo

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150 > 110

shell frigate
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Oh typo on your part

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Did not think of that possibility even somehow

glacial topaz
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"The beam itself is invisible with visuals only appearing from its point of impact" is that something for multiplayer
I was always under the impression I could seer the beam just fine Sconk
wave cooker page

acoustic scarab
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We have confirmation from Mike that the 0/10/15 change was in Season 1

weary sonnet
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Time and Value represent the mission lenght and chance.

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Hum mistake on my side, some of my history of season 1 is wrong it seems, I will need to fix it.

analog rock
glacial topaz
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You can see a beam on flashlights tho, sometimes

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Rip, so now it is much harder to get cargo ???

tranquil hazel
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(not necessarily in that order)

shell frigate
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When did they say they increased it?

tranquil hazel
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if they didn't, where did the idea that they had a 33% spawn rate in longer missions come from?

shell frigate
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That has been floating around even when they were 1/6 flat chance

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As files did suggest that was the case with the number in them just the code only used the 1/6 chance

tranquil hazel
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the text on the wiki was changed in S1 though

acoustic scarab
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Yes, because I changed it

tranquil hazel
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well, why then?

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if it was actually reduced instead of increased

shell frigate
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Note it also changed a few times when it was 1/6 chance flat

acoustic scarab
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Because the numbers of 10/16/33% have been in the code for years, and we knew they weren't working.

tranquil hazel
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well why put numbers that aren't real on the wiki, even if they're meant to be correct?

acoustic scarab
#

Then S1 landed and those numbers didn't go anywhere, but devs said the spawn rate now depends on t mission length

tranquil hazel
#

I see

#

so they misled people who knew what the ingame data said

#

but actually significantly lowered the spawn rate, and in many cases made it 0%

shell frigate
#

Or we just did not double check the data after they said it

acoustic scarab
#

"Many cases" being length 1. How many of your missions are length 1?

shell frigate
#

The devs don't take the wiki into consideration

tranquil hazel
#

vague as that word is

acoustic scarab
#

It could've been 0/10/15 from the beginning of S1, it could've been changed halfway through, we don't know

tranquil hazel
#

tbh I feel like I've gotten crates in length 1 missions since S1

shell frigate
#

Though we can retroactively find out if we wanted to

tranquil hazel
#

but if they did decrease the spawn rate.... why???

#

there are more cosmetics than ever

#

people enjoy finding them

#

who is this for?

shell frigate
#

Similar thing with the Abyss Bar, buffs are marked as crossed out as the intended effect is diffrent from the actual effect

tranquil hazel
#

to be clear, what I'm really frustrated by is the reduction in the number of crates

#

the lack of correct information is unfortunately very normal in this game, since the devs intentionally obfuscate it for some reason

shell frigate
#

Well the files don't tell us why, so we are out of anwsers

#

It's not partially obfuscated compaired to other games, the specifics of things of chance are often hidden to the player

#

We at least have the tools to find all the numbers, also given how it was intended to work based on length from the start is fair to say the numbers are sometimes more obfuscated to the devs than they are to us

silent sierra
acoustic scarab
#

Well, to alleviate you frustration, this isn't a new change, not by any means. So if you weren't suffering from crate spawn in the last 6 months, no reason to start suffering now

glacial topaz
#

Any chance it also scales per mission?

acoustic scarab
#

I don't know. How do you mean that?

bold plover
#

Mission 1 - no crate
Mission 2 increase chance - no crate
Mission 3 increase chance even further - crate - reset to default chance

#

Ig

tranquil hazel
#

I'm not noticing a reduction in turrets around the controller in the newest patch

20220505125645_1.jpg
#

FUN

#

GOOD TIMES

glacial topaz
#

As in, there is a base cargo chance per length, but each mission type affects that value further

#

So tge chance would be differwnt for lenght 3 PE vs ME vs Hunt fir example

#

Guess we can test by modding , or making a spreadsheet ?

short cloud
acoustic scarab
acoustic scarab
# tranquil hazel who is this for?

To be fair, we regularly get complaints that the cargo crates are empty - from long-term players who had already collected everything from them. The lower the spawn rate, the later this moment will happen for any given player

tranquil hazel
#

why does that matter?

silent sierra
#

We can only speculate. It's not really something for the wiki chat, though.

tranquil hazel
#

so all of that said, I can confirm a 0% chance of getting crates in length 1 missions is not true, as I am currently in one and there is a crate right in front of me

#

4 egg mission (length 1), cargo crate

shell frigate
#

Hmm, would be hilarious after all this the bug of it only using the middle number was still in effect

acoustic scarab
#

Great, now it's even more confusing that before

shell frigate
#

But likey is what Omega said

short cloud
tranquil hazel
#

@silent sierra according to the patch notes, taser bolts are fixed on direct damage

#

how much should they be doing then?

#

anecdotally, they do seem to be doing more than before

silent sierra
#

Probably just whatever the paper math says. The jira ticket I logged for them was marked as resolved.

tranquil hazel
#

what did it say?

#

16 DPS?

#

was that it?

frozen edge
tranquil hazel
#

but since they are encounterable in length 1 missions, the former claim is clearly not true, and the latter claim is unproven

#

so now it's not clear at all what their spawn rates are

frozen edge
tranquil hazel
#

well, that much is clear

frozen edge
#

The change was made in Season 1, and the perceptible difference should be unnoticeable. The chance for shorter missions increased as far as I’m told.

silent sierra
# tranquil hazel 16 DPS?

The bolt stuck in an enemy does 16 dps, the actual electric beam does 30 dps. The beam uses the Turret Arc file so the two won't stack. Also the Turret Arc beam doesn't proc Bullets of Mercy, so neither will the Taser arcs.

frozen edge
#

As far as I can tell, back then a fix was also involved making it roll for each type separately.

tranquil hazel
tranquil hazel
silent sierra
#

I'm not 100% sure, I haven't tested that thoroughly for the taser bolts yet.

#

My guess is 30 and 16 since status effect files don't normally stack with themselves

frozen edge
#

But I see why there is confusion.

shell frigate
#

Here is the simplified data we have from the files

"TreasureChanceMissionLengthCurve": {
        "EditorCurveData": {
          "Keys": [
            {"Time": 0, "Value": 0}
            {"Time": 1, "Value": 0.1}
            {"Time": 2, "Value": 0.15}
          ] } }```
stark tulip
#

So certain mission types have a higher chance?

frozen edge
#

We usually do not shadownerf, because people find out eventually. What we usually do is forgetting to note down a change in the patch notes, because it was made months before the patch notes were made.

idle tangle
glacial topaz
#

Hahaha, so I was correct, nice
Now next step is to check some more to get it correctly for wiki

#

Guessing the roll is per room ?

acoustic scarab
#

If you figure out what kind of info you want for this, I can keep an eye out in my missions

#

If it's going to be statistical research

delicate wadi
#

Anyone know the chance for the explosion on kill on the wave-cooker and damage of such?

idle tangle
#

chance is 50%

#

dont know damage

silent sierra
#

It's 50%, the same as Targets Explode

#

It does 100 damage

#

can't remember the radius stats though

glacial topaz
#

seeing 1.5m and 2.5m, that's it ? the falloff should be the default one

silent sierra
#

The explosion mod actually has a huge advantage over Targets Explode too come to think of it. It can explode frozen targets and apply damage evenly to enemies from full health till death. So it's very likely to get multiple explosions at once.

glacial topaz
analog rock
#

So a mission with a zero length would have zero chance for treasure, one with a length of 1 would have 10%, 2 has 15%, and three should follow that, if someone traces it.

wicked cave
#

do we have the meaning of the X axis of that curve yet though? I think we're assuming 0/1/2 = mission length 1/2/3 but not sure if that's known

shell frigate
#

The thing here is that 0 length (which means length 1 in-game, computers start at 0) should have 0% chance but they still are spawning

glacial topaz
shell frigate
#

Well the thing in files still says length

#

TreasureChanceMissionLengthCurve

#

But likey just left unchanged as that is what it always was called.
But if it's not based off length what is the 0-2 map to?

shell frigate
glacial topaz
#

probably if changing one of the values to be 100% and others 0%,
so with just a few missions of a certain type I guess you can tell if are getting crates or not, maybe even do 500%

shell frigate
glacial topaz
#

💀 wouldn't it be better to just remove ?

#

otherwise that is just "Red sugar heals more % of the same attack in a mission with shield"

shell frigate
#

It's not untrue, you would use less sugar to heal from the same attack

#

And before health was increased on those missions, not a damage reduction

shell frigate
glacial topaz
#

not for it being true or not
for it being kinda useless
if anything I can see one saying "Damage is reduced, but healing is not affected"
the part of saying it is more effective by X% is not the best thing to have, as it leaves the impression that you will need less sugar to go from 20hp to 100hp, for example

shell frigate
#

I think it's best to reword these things to be 100% true as otherwise people will just re-add them

#

If why Beer buff effects are displayed on the wiki as they are, 100% truth with all the extra info so people don't "correct" them

glacial topaz
#

wouldn't the " healing is not affected" already make it clear nothing changes for it ? other than more spawning
not counting that hazard also comes into play for damage taken

glacial topaz
#

Decided to change it to simply say you need less sugar to heal from the same attack

idle tangle
silent sierra
#

From what I've observed it seems like the explosion must be triggered by the direct damage of the wave cooker.

glacial topaz
#

you should upload it as MP4
unless it is only me not getting a preview

silent sierra
#

Oh my bad. I was just being particularly lazy.

#

Here, I'll just swap it to the one I uploaded to youtube.

wicked cave
#

that's a nice combo for solo driller play

#

presumably you could stack corrosion on top of /that/ with another dwarf in the mix

#

wonder how that does vs a frozen dread

silent sierra
#

Contagion stacks with the Neurotoxin Canister, so it'd actually be pretty good at chipping away Dreads over time with the Sludge Pump

idle tangle
#

This is what I've been trying to say for a while now. The base guns numbers aren't actually poop like people say. They are almost completely in line with the EPC in various configurations. The only thing it lacks is utility via TCF (which I think is more then made up for by a unlimited range hitscan weapon) and it will never beat Subata for single target damage (but neither will EPC).

#

But I also don't want to turn this place into DRG chat, so I won't comment on it anymore

misty marsh
#

Does anyone know where I can find a list of the new ocs? I've checked the wiki but only the coilgun has been added

idle tangle
short cloud
misty marsh
tranquil hazel
idle tangle
#

Isn't that what HH basically is

tranquil hazel
#

HH is for killing things that are outside of your freeze range, and for very quickly killing bigger frozen things so you don't need axes

silent sierra
#

There

#

I uh... Don't think that's supposed to happen.

tranquil hazel
#

no, I get it, but that's really not nearly enough of a benefit to justify removing your ability to damage things that aren't already frozen

silent sierra
#

Fair. I just like watching the numbers go up.

#

Though the Collette with that last setup 100% does good damage without the frozen multiplier

#

The blisters are giving their multiplier for some reason, and on Health Armor plates they're giving 2.5x damage instead because the damage is applying twice.

#

Once to the plate and once to the blister

tranquil hazel
#

is the cooker damaging the bug when it hits the blisters?

silent sierra
#

Yes

#

That was how the multiplier got stacked so high the Praetorian was taking over 75 damage per tick instead of 27

tranquil hazel
#

so it's bugged again

silent sierra
#

This gun is basically a weaponized glitch, yes.

tranquil hazel
#

fun

bold plover
#

poor drillers cant catch a break, first epc and now this

silent sierra
#

Is something wrong with the EPC right now?

bold plover
#

it is not what it used to be

tranquil hazel
#

its entire mod and OC pool

#

it's a clusterfuck of poor design

#

so many mods invalidate other ones

#

most of its mods and OCs only work around the charge shot, which is turned into two different things that invalidate many of them by using the T5 mods

silent sierra
#

I should clarify. I was asking if it had bugs in it.

tranquil hazel
#

and the third T5 mod, which doesn't invalidate them, makes you orient towards regular shots anyway

bold plover
#

maybe some bits and pieces when they turn into vapors

#

but otherwise none that i am aware of

silent sierra
#

gotcha

bold plover
tranquil hazel
#

I'm pretty sure no one has ever used a regular EPC charge shot on purpose

#

why does the EPC have two mods that increase charged shot damage?

#

what is that for?

#

why does it have a charged shot at all?

silent sierra
#

The direct impact of the charge shot actually gets the frozen multiplier. In Cryo Builds it does better damage than TCF.

tranquil hazel
#

why not just have FN and TCF be alt fire options?

tranquil hazel
#

just shooting

silent sierra
#

I have other reasons to disagree, but we're getting well into the weeds of #drg-chat at this point so I'll go ahead and stop here.

idle tangle
#

@silent sierra sorry just to confirm your findings, are you saying cooker is hitting weakpoints?

#

Wouldn't that just mean that the gun is literally a cylinder of DD, which means it is hitting the Blisters

silent sierra
idle tangle
#

So it does WP damage only on boils?

#

Interesting

#

That makes Blisters way better though

#

Kinda hope it stays

silent sierra
#

Maybe, but I don't think the devs would have intended the cooker to be able to hit heavy armor twice when a boil was on top of it, so I already submitted a jira ticket.

idle tangle
#

Ah, so it's acting like a seperate instance of damage?

tranquil hazel
#

the boils could be a good single target build if there were any consistency to their appearance

idle tangle
#

The rough average for most loadouts works out to 2 every 3 seconds, with rare chances of 1 or 3.

#

It's not consistent consistent, but it's not unpredictable either

silent sierra
#

Seems like Necrosis is additive with Contagion as well.

#

So instead of 1.5 * 1.3 it's 1.5 + 0.3

#

Or 2.5 + 0.3 in the Praetorian's case.

glacial topaz
#

nice!! finally was able to get stats on that Trytilite event, just need to get some confirmation from testing,
probably will talk more about that tomorrow, but happy with that

silent sierra
#

I guess I'll add the 2.5x multiplier to the wiki later.

silent sierra
#

Something else I've tested is whether the boils trigger weakpoint mods. They do not. Also the 1.5x damage is applied correctly for everything except for weapons that cleave. So that would be things like the Flamethrower and Cryo Cannon that get a 2.5x multiplier when hitting the boils.

glacial topaz
#

Cleave ?

silent sierra
#

Cleave as in pass through hitboxes.

#

So the Flamethrower, Cryo Cannon, and Flying Nightmare.

#

Basically what's happening is the weapons are damaging the boil for 150% and then damaging the enemy the boil is attached to for 100% damage.

#

The Wave Cooker deals damage to everything under its crosshair, so it's doing the same thing in a different way.

glacial topaz
#

250%

silent sierra
#

250% in total, yes.

short cloud
silent sierra
#

The boil doesn't actually have anything to do with weakpoints or weakpoint multipliers.

#

If it gets hit it multiplies damage.

#

I haven't tested the BC yet though. I'll get back to you

#

This interaction should be pretty broken with Mole come to think of it. Coilgun doesn't seem to get the benefits of hitting multiple hitboxes.

#

Oh! One other thing. The boils each have their own hitbox, so cleaving through multiple boils will give multiple 150% damage ticks. Flying Nightmare and Ice Storm especially enjoy this.

#

This also allows the Colette itself to deal insane damage to a boil cluster, which I'm pretty sure was why they lowered the number of boils created each second.

gaunt cipher
#

This is an aside, but does anyone happen to know the tickrate on the coilgun damage trail/electric trail effect?

acoustic scarab
glacial topaz
#

As in bug or it just changed

short cloud
short cloud
#

they repeatedly said on stream they had no idea why it was bugged out so dunno if it's from them or not

#

there's also a report of one being seen in Industrial sabotage and I've seen a few more in different mission types so it looks like it's not exclusive to any specific mission type anymore.

gaunt cipher
#

Wonder if the UE update changed it.

short cloud
#

it's possible

#

I could ask them eventually if you're curious

silent sierra
#

2.5 fire damage, 3 electric damage, and 12 Heat damage respectively

gaunt cipher
#

Hm, no direct fire damage from hellfire trail effect beyond the normal trail damage?

#

Not that it really needs it, tbh

#

By the way what you've been saying earlier about DoTs applying a tick instantly makes a lot of things make sense, including sometimes seeing on recordings sludge direct DoT ticking before the actual direct impact damage hits the healthbar, and also the weird behavior of praetorian's acid spray where despite the DoT wiping itself on a tick it always deals damage at least twice

silent sierra
#

Oh, also Hellfire Trail has an intensity value of Heat 1 so it prevents cooling and bugs gain 2° every second while they're in it.

gaunt cipher
#

I always forget that intensity goes 2/12/20, my brain wants it to work in more even increases

dense vapor
#

anyone noticed oppressors occasionally taking about double damage (I think it's the extra damage from mole?) from mole hitting the butt? doesn't happen when hitting armor from the front

gaunt cipher
#

Albeit with a bit of rounding happening that does seem like it's mole adding 150(125 raw) damage

dense vapor
#

discovering bunch of funky mole interactions, like corpses count for bonus, and shooting through molly (except the very top part)

dense vapor
tranquil hazel
#

she sure takes a load well

dense vapor
#

I'm suspecting shooting through players would count for bonus too, finally scouts can be useful for something

silent sierra
#

I'm sorry engis...
Necrosis apparently has a hard cap on how much damage it can put out. So if you hit the boil too hard it will reduce your damage instead of buff it.

glacial topaz
# glacial topaz nice!! finally was able to get stats on that Trytilite event, just need to get s...

been some time since I had the event, so can't really remember if what I got is how it is in game
Anyway, I have noticed that the deposit might be using a 700 HP (Large Enemy) immune to everything (the only defined resistance is for the barrel explosion, which should make it immune to it... so that is odd)
the explosion is 100 Damage at most, 50 damage at the edges
So wonder how the scaling works (different hazards, require different damage to it ??), if it takes full damage from the explosion, etc

bold plover
silent sierra
# bold plover Praetorian spray is just a status effect that lasts a certain duration and alway...

He's aware, he was referring to a thing to do with DoTs in general in DRG. Every DoT always applies a tick of damage immediately upon being applied before the tick rate comes into play. There's nothing special about the Praetorian spray that makes it always hit twice as it's just a normal DoT. Even Temperature Shock is a DoT, but its duration is too short for its 1 second affect interval to apply the damage a second time causing it to only do a single tick of 200 disintegrate damage.

idle tangle
#

Hey wiki testers, I was going by Regaldog's write up on Boltshark breakpoints and testing in a few games. As a client, in a 4 P game, I could not 1 shot a Acid Spitter in the body. It did a little more then half. I am curious if the radial damage is currently bugged for clients. Is there an easy way to test?

austere fossil
#

105 * 0.8 = 84 direct dmg against light armor
84 / 144 Acid Spitter haz4+ eHP = 0.583333
Sounds like you may have hit the nail on the head.

idle tangle
#

Yes, but my data sample is two body shots (1 each against two different Acid Spitters) in a chaotic 4p game. The hard way to test would be for someone to host and we fish for a Acid Spitter spawn.

#

Or find another BP it should miss as client

austere fossil
#

I mean, it should fail on a lot of stuff without the 60 area. Like, not oneshotting plain grunts on their armor

idle tangle
#

True

#

I guess I'll go find a buddy then and find out if I was seeing things.

short cloud
idle tangle
#

Aight, imma be embarrassed if it just turns out I missed two point blank shots, that happened to be close enough to do the radial damage only.

idle tangle
#

I confirmed the bug, will make a jira report later

#

could not 1 shot a mactera in WP

#

could not 1 shot grunt in the body

#

either the radial damage is finnicky, or it doesn't work client

#

kinkedspark helped me test, and as host, he could

lavish bone
#

What is cryo bolt radius?

tranquil hazel
#

my guess is you just missed on that one and hit the body

#

or the direct damage is also bugged

idle tangle
#

Maybe, it was pretty consistent though.

tranquil hazel
#

it's just that mactera have a 3x WP, the base direct damage is 105, and mactere are also apparently 30% weak to pierce

#

so the direct damage alone should do about 410 damage to their WP, and they have like 270 health or so

idle tangle
#

Hmmm

#

Could their weakness be reversed?

#

105 * 3 * 0.7

#

is 220.5

#

which lines up with about how much health was left when I hit em.

#

Didn't you have the same problem with Trijaws?

#

@tranquil hazel

tranquil hazel
#

apparently trijaws are not meant to have a weakness, so the total damage was exactly what it was supposed to be

#

I somehow doubt mactera are meant to have a resistance to pierce, since the bestiary specifically says they're weak to it, and so do the game files, but it's possible they're accidentally getting a resistance to it instead of a weakness as a bug

#

also, if they did have a resistance to pierce, I think you wouldn't be able to oneshot them to the WP even if the radial damage was working

short cloud
tranquil hazel
#

yeah but it matches the game files

#

in this case

#

anyway, if my math is right, a shot without +damage to the WP with radial damage working and 30% resistance, which is not enough to oneshot them

#

but they are able to be oneshot when you aren't a client

#

you can even oneshot them with bodkins using +damage, which absolutely would not do enough if they had pierce resistance

idle tangle
#

What if radial damage isn't considered piercing as a possibility?

tranquil hazel
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

idle tangle
#

Also, aim I doing my math wrong? 165 * 3 = 495

#

*0.7

#

Is 346.5

#

OR, (105 * 3)*0.7 + 60 x 3

tranquil hazel
#

well you're tripling the radial damage

idle tangle
#

ah

#

I thought it was

tranquil hazel
#

I'm assuming it's not, because it's radial damage

idle tangle
#

ok it does line up though if the radial damage is NOT piercing

#

(105 * 3 * 0.7) + 60 = 280.5

tranquil hazel
#

why are they doing this shit to us

tranquil hazel
idle tangle
#

Either way, I'll file a report now and hopefully they can figure it out

#

I am 100% sure, that I couldn't one shot a grunt, as client with the normal shot at least

#

maybe something funky happened somewhere else

tranquil hazel
#

in fact I believe bodkins can only oneshot spawn if there is a piercing weakness on spawn

#

and they can be oneshot

idle tangle
#

but my grunts were getting stunned, not dead that I am sure of.

tranquil hazel
#

in fact giving mactera spawn weakness makes no sense unless the intent is to make bodkins able to oneshot them to the weakpoint, because that's the only breakpoint it would affect

idle tangle
#

the only other possibility is radial damage can roll seperate and my shots were just that off, but I don't think they were.

tranquil hazel
#

well it's clear something is happening with mactera either way

idle tangle
#

It does though if Radial isn't piercing :p

tranquil hazel
#

FYI I've definitely not experienced radial being bugged in every game

#

the normal breakpoints have mostly worked for me, though I do remember a situation where I wasn't able to oneshot a guard to the face as a client

idle tangle
tranquil hazel
#

I tested it again solo and it worked

#

yes, both

idle tangle
#

oic hmm

#

As mentioned I tested with Kinked, he could body shot grunts, I could not.

#

he was host.

tranquil hazel
#

the sharto's radial bug wasn't always happening either

#

I'm sure it's just happening sometimes

idle tangle
#

alright, off to clean up guinea pig cage and then file a report.

glacial topaz
#

Doing a full review of the milestone / perk pages btw, find wrong and outdated values
in case for some miracle someone decided to work on it too lol

silent sierra
#

Hoverboots actually needs an update actually. It acts as a Heat Source when active, so it very quickly heats stuff up.

bold plover
#

I'm surprised that is not on there since that has been the case for as long as I can remember.

glacial topaz
#

well, milestone parts I mean
not checking perks no xD

silent sierra
#

I think the Heat Source part of Hoverboots wasn't added simply because no one really knew what that meant or did in game until relatively recently as far as I'm aware.

bold plover
#

Are the stats known or is it wanted?

silent sierra
#

The stats are known. I have them.

bold plover
#

ok

#

I know them so don't waste your time for me.

silent sierra
#

Hoverboots has an intensity value of Heat 3 and applies a DoT that deals 20 Heat damage every 0.25-0.5 seconds. Also applies a 0.8x move speed modifier for some reason.

bold plover
#

20% slow

silent sierra
#

Too late!

#

Though I like to throw stats into these discussions regardless for anyone just scrolling through them.

bold plover
#

You guys got the data for cold and heat 1-3, right?

#

I posted it a while back.

silent sierra
#

Yeah, we got them around the same time actually. You and Ely both got a dev response about it if I remember right, and I was confused because the numbers in game didn't quite match up until we found other stuff to do with Sticky Flames and other heat sources also being "On Fire" and applying that extra radial heat too.

bold plover
#

Yeah, some components are instanced so reading hex isn't always right.

silent sierra
#

I've got a ton of footage of the tests if you'd like to see them.

bold plover
#

I'm good, thanks though.

silent sierra
#

I also added the heat and cold source data to the Temperature page.

full bluff
bold plover
#

It is a separate ste

#

Basically it is a status that emulates heat but likely isn't defined as a source that goo can receive.

silent sierra
bold plover
#

it should target anything that is not a dwarf or friendly

full bluff
#

Oh well, that's more logical. A damn shame though

bold plover
#

Reason why it does not trigger on goo is likely because of the type of trigger that they used for it.

silent sierra
#

You can, however, ignite a bunch of stuff that's in the puddles which will cause them to radiate heat that does ignite the puddles. It's a bit janky though.

bold plover
#

Status Effect Trigger components by default only target pawns and that is what hover uses, and it only has an on overlap or on end overlap event, so it also has to move inside of the sphere to receive the status.

silent sierra
#

And yeah, most of the triggers are defined within the STE files in a list. Sometimes a trigger isn't defined so the two things ignore each other. I was learning about that recently when looking at Turret Arc's STE file being uniquely absent from all of the "bonus vs electrified" buffs.

bold plover
#

Are you talking about the is exclusive flag for ignoring? But, yeah, it needs to be defined in most cases to work.

silent sierra
#

No, I'm talking about all of the files associated with things like Bullets of Mercy or Conductive Bullets having a list declared in them that points to the STE files of every status effect that triggers the buff. Turret Arc is in none of those lists, but things like the electric crystals are. Stuff like that.

bold plover
#

Ah, yeah.

silent sierra
#

I haven't looked, but I was thinking maybe the files for the goo puddles may have a similar list for things that they can take heat from.

bold plover
#

fire and electricity afaik

silent sierra
#

Right, but what I'm talking about is a list of other objects in the game that they explicitely interact with. Like the one in the Bullets of Mercy folder

bold plover
#

yeah it is vague from what i see

silent sierra
#

Yeah, the image had like no context to be helpful with. Just "StatusEffects": [List of stuff]

#

But that's sort of what I'm hoping to find.

bold plover
#

I knew exactly what it meant.

#

I am referring to vague for what is listed as triggers

silent sierra
#

Ah okay.

#

Oh wait! The puddles only take damage from defined resistances right? And that was what you listed off.

#

Now I think I understand what you were saying.

bold plover
#

Well I only see fire and electric for goo types so I assume any source should be good enough but it has to be heat to ignite unless they changed charged shot EPC damage types.

silent sierra
#

I wonder if that means the Shard Diffractor won't be able to ignite it.

bold plover
#

Types of parameters for AGooPuddle

unknown.png
silent sierra
#

May also explain why only 50% of the Plasma Burn's 25% damage -> heat bonus is making it into the puddles.

bold plover
#

All the functions don't really indicate a restriction but I know there is . .

#

Hmm, it actually might just be a heat source only the more I look at it.

#

I only really messed with the combos during closed testing and that changed drastically.

silent sierra
#

Are you referring to Hover Boots or the burning puddles?

bold plover
#

puddles

silent sierra
#

The puddles definitely put out their own heat. It's split into three different types though.

bold plover
#

not that, what statuses they can be affected by / produce

silent sierra
#

Oh gotcha.

#

Huh. Hellfire can't ignite goo puddles either.

#

Probably for the same reason as Hover Boots actually.

glacial topaz
#

Oy, is EPC still doing odd interaction with the puddles ?
the heating I mean, that we discovered was odd

silent sierra
#

Yeah, the EPC needs to shoot more 3 shots for puddles and 6 for clouds despite it doing 10 heat per shot. After a bunch of testing I found that the damage conversion is being cut in half against puddles and clouds for some reason. So it's doing 5 + 0.125*<damage> Heat to the gas clouds and puddles.

bold plover
silent sierra
#

The tests I ran involved modding the heat output of the EPC in various ways. Setting it to just do a static 10 heat per shot with 0 conversion caused it to ignite the puddles in two shots.

glacial topaz
#

what an interesting bug

silent sierra
#

I'm not 100% sure it's a bug. The AoE weapons that convert damage to heat have a similar thing happen.

#

Or at least the Hurricane. I don't know about the PGL.

glacial topaz
#

wait, it was never reported ?

silent sierra
#

I have no footage of these tests though, so I'm just going off memory here. I'd have to re-run these to give real data on the other weapons besides the EPC

#

I reported it on Jira a while ago, actually.

glacial topaz
#

I guess they would have marked it as "not a bug" wouldn't they

silent sierra
#

Either that or it's close enough to the intended behavior that they haven't addressed it while focusing on other stuff.

bold plover
#

does the status spread to nearby goo?

silent sierra
#

Yes. Each Goo Puddle has an OnFireHeatRange of 1.7 meters, so they burn each other.

bold plover
#

Ok, it used to not be the case for a while so that is nice.

glacial topaz
#

seems like a pain to make use of burning pools if you need 50 shots to ignite a decent amount

silent sierra
#

They were changed to spread when they were made to ignite with Heat instead of Fire damage. Before that the way to go was to use Flying Nightmare I recall.

tranquil hazel
#

the best way was bouncy drak, because that does fire damage

silent sierra
#

Right, but Driller doesn't have that.

tranquil hazel
#

yes but my friend always played driller when I was scout

#

that's very important

hexed needle
#

does the wave cooker have any interaction with sludge other than a seemingly unique particle that tanks my fps

glacial topaz
#

you mean on the T5 mod ? the first one

#

you should take a look at it, yea

hexed needle
#

yeah im using contagion transmitter

#

but like if the waves hit a puddle of sludge i lose a ton of fps

glacial topaz
#

so you mean the puddles
if there is a reason for fps drop
not really about gameplay / mechanics I guess

hexed needle
#

i wasnt sure if there was a status that could be applied to puddles

glacial topaz
#

other than burning them
never heard about another

indigo juniper
#

does napalm infused rounds decrease the damage the minelayer system mines do?

#

with the hurricane

#

nvm i tested it dows

radiant edge
#

Apparently re-atomizer OC lets you spread steeve/elite status onto other bugs

#

How is that even possible lol

short cloud
dense vapor
dense vapor
radiant edge
dense vapor
#

actually the fake steeves attack each other lol, they don't seem to resist each others' attacks

dense vapor
wicked cave
#

Fake steeves created by reatomizer still attack the player too, though, and they’re nigh invulnerable

indigo kindle
#

Steeve has a x0.02 damage multiplier to FF. You're essentially increasing the enemy's effective HP 50 times over.

gaunt cipher
#

Just copy it onto an oppressor and create a permanent stage hazard

short cloud
glacial topaz
#

Anyone knows the total number of perk points you can get?
by sum gave the same value as last season
meaning at some point milestones changed / got removed
or someone got it wrong

#

finished adding the missing stuff to the page btw
but then got me thinking that the place probably needs a good rework , as it is getting quite long

gaunt cipher
# floral drift This result was achieved experimentally using Damage Numbers mod

I've been doing my own overcharger testing and +40 max damage bonus seems to be incorrect, at least as of current update.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2Cy9_bbqME
Not sure if this changed in one of the patches but I'm consistently able to hit +48 damage.
Also I'm pretty sure that, at 60 fps, the ratio of time overcharging/extra damage is 2 frames/1 damage.
So if you hold it for 80 frames past full charge, you get 40 extra damage. If you hold it for 96 frames(or a bit more, there's definitely some leniency on the timing) you get 48 extra damage.

I recall people in experimental discussion mentioning that the code relating to Overcharger had the value 96, and people at first thought it was the amount of damage you could get from overcharger.
It seems to be that instead the '96' is the max number of frames it can accumulate overcharge bonus. And then when you fire it, your damage bonus is equal to half the number of frames you held it, with that cap.

YouTube
LazyMaybe
overcharger damage bonus
▶ Play video
#

It might instead be working on specific intervals rather than being that granular, but it does seem to me that the '96' relates to the amount of time you need to hold it for max bonus damage.

radiant edge
#

I noticed that Triple Tech Chambers OC's secondary shots now scales with controlled magnetic flow in terms of ammo, does that include the damage?

#

Either trail or direct

real owl
#

Adding onto that TTC discussion since I couldn't find an answer clearly on here: Is Shockwave (Tier 4B) affected by scale modifiers like TTC's later shots or Controlled Magnetic Flow?

short cloud
real owl
#

Have the same opinion, just not the data to back it up yeah

floral drift
glacial topaz
#

So what happens with season challenges (rack and warning) , if you don't have the rival assigment (from S1, for sabotage)?
do you just don't get it to spawn ?

glacial topaz
#

Anyone has footage of refinery leaking 3 times in a mission ?
For the%

floral drift
#

footage? no. lots of anecdotal examples? yes. it feels guaranteed on Haz5/4Players.

the %s are different most of the time. i've seen the 3rd leak happen on 95%-99%

gaunt cipher
glacial topaz
#

The numbers I got were
"Refining Total Duration": 150.0,
"Pipeline Break CoolDown": 50.0 to 70.0

So far cant find aNything for player count or hazard, or third break at 95-99%

#

Which match exactly the data of yoshkincat, but not third leaks

shell frigate
#

Pulled up first video I could find https://youtu.be/uleA-hHtKZ0
11:13 - 11:53 (40 secs)
13:01 - 13:42 (41 secs)
14:53 - 15:36 (43 secs)
16:24 - 16:50 (26 secs)
Total 149 secs (numbers may not be perfect)

#

So 150 total holds true

#

But 50 sec min does not

glacial topaz
#

Wait, 40s would be 26.6%
That doesnt appear on the data collected, right ?

shell frigate
#

?

silent sierra
#

Looks like the Necrosis Boils have a hard cap on how much damage they can put out for some reason.

#

Also the attack that breaks the boils doesn't do any damage at all, which makes high damage weapons like Ice Spear completely worthless when paired with Blistering Necrosis

glacial topaz
#

This ome

silent sierra
#

Seems like it needs to have a base damage that's greater than the health of the boil, so weapons with a lot of small damage instances work best.

delicate wadi
#

that's kind of lame

#

Feels more like a bug

#

I feel like necrosis has a really low proc chance too

#

also, does it only work if you hit non-armoured spots on an enemy?

#

Or am I thinking of something else on the CWC

acoustic scarab
#

So far my working theory is that it has to do more with player count than hazard

#

Always two breaks solo and 2p, chance of a third break on 3p and 4p

acoustic scarab
#

As a sidenote, I've taken it upon myself to only get challenge scrip from Sabotage missions to test if there's a limit.

#

I'll reroll all challenges for 3x Rival Presence. If Omega's assumption is correct, I should stop getting scrip from Sabotages after 8 of them

dense vapor
#

how does heat generation with cwc work? is it per ammo like drak or per second like minigun or cryo?

#

also does blistering necrosis work on dreads?

glacial topaz
glacial topaz
glacial topaz
#

thoughts on changing this thing for resources ?
to instead say "Rarity: 1 in 26 (per mission)" or "Rarity: 1 / 26 (~3.84%) per mission"

unknown.png
shell frigate
#

Would rather it be the fraction myself

glacial topaz
#

can phazyonite appear in any mission and biome ?
so far I discovered the spawn chance seems to be 1 in 7

weary sonnet
#

afaik there is no restriction for phazyonite spawn other than the 1/7 chance.

glacial topaz
#

is it even possible to get 2 compressed golds, or did I remember it wrong

weary sonnet
#

It was possible in the past, that much is sure, no idea if it is still possible or not. I don’t remember getting two after season 1.

#

But I played a lot less after S01, so it could be a coincidence.

shell frigate
#

Used to be almost anytime you had one there was another nearby

glacial topaz
#

if something appears on all missions
should we just say "Every mission" for rarity ?

weary sonnet
#

I would say "Any mission", but not sure if it is the correct way to say it.

glacial topaz
#

thinking that Any mission sounds more like "which missions can it spawn ? Any"
instead of "All / Every mission have it"

#

also, for banned types, "Any" being used for enemies and warnings with no limitations

shell frigate
#

Any would be a better fit imo

#

As "all" suggests it will always be in every mission

glacial topaz
#

well, it will
talking about nitra and gold veins, to be more specific

short cloud
shell frigate
glacial topaz
# short cloud it is

how recent ? if recent, wonder how it works to make it different from other rare resources

shell frigate
#

I feel like it's not intentional

#

My guess would be was a fix to make it spawn when a bug stopped them spawning and that bug itself is now fixed, so just spawns double now

weary sonnet
#

My guess would be that it is affected by a modifier like MissionScale and rounded.

shell frigate
#

Ooo, that could be the case, could mod it and see

glacial topaz
#

so compressed gold weight of 100%, and large mission scale value

weary sonnet
#

From what I remember not all mission type/length could give you two compressed gold, that’s why I have this theory.

glacial topaz
#

also, for korlok shards
word this to just say it is an enemy drop ?
as it isn't like a random spawn, so... "Exclusive drop" or ?

unknown.png
weary sonnet
#

What about "guarantee drop from korlok"
Since the other way to say it as you pointed it out imply that the material is rare/hard to get.

glacial topaz
#

X-X sabotage nitra range is like 280, and escort is saying 350, even though escort I can barely get a supply now and sabotage I spawn like 4+
scaling ftw I guess

glacial topaz
glacial topaz
#

do we know if bet-c and stuff spawn chance is reduced on Haz2 ? as a lot of the rare enemy spawns changed

weary sonnet
#

we do know, there is no longer a different spawn chance based on hazard

#

Some of the spawn change were changed, the new values should be in the game>gamedata>EncounterSettings file

shell frigate
glacial topaz
#

x-x I know we talked about it, lol

#

will be adding soon then
lots of things to decide it seems

rancid blade
#

is this outdated

#

i thought health upgrades are additive now

glacial topaz
#

where is that even on ?
I remember it getting corrected, or was it even on the Health page ?

rancid blade
#

they're on the class armor pages

glacial topaz
#

interesting it didn't get updated

glacial topaz
#

If nobody does correct that
I might do after correcting other stuff, or before

scenic jewel
#

on the wiki it states trifork reduces damage by 15%, however in game it only visually reduces the direct damage, not the radial is it meant to reduce radial by 15% as well or only direct as is properly displayed in game?

#

I know the in game boltshark numbers have been buggy lately in terms of what they display

glacial topaz
#

of all the things I can see the trifork OC does, it only seems to reduce the direct damage
did you notice a bug or someting ?

glacial topaz
#

Wait, lol
Wonder if the wiki person got it wrong , or tested it

#

Do you know an oc that reduces both direct and area ?

#

If I had to guess it is just direct

silent sierra
#

With the addition of Blistering Necrosis I feel like we actually have a sufficient number of different damage multipliers that it may be a good idea to start categorizing the multipliers into different types and then add a damage formula to the Damage page that people can reference.
For example Contagion Transmitter is multiplicative with Super Focusing Lens, but additive with Blistering Necrosis. Similarly things like Bullets of Mercy don't stack with Necrosis at all because the Boil is a separate entity and isn't afflicted with the debuffs that a creature is carrying. IFGs allow the Boil to carry a debuff for the purposes of "target afflicted with X" mods, however.

glacial topaz
#

yea, I can see one that reduces area, so guessing that indicates it is separated , so Direct only

scenic jewel
#

it could just be a case of unclearness, but to be fair the game isnt helping by calling the direct damage of the xbo "damage"

#

I feel in my heart it should reduce both but that doesnt make it a reality lol

#

most OCs also do not reduce damage by a percent either, they do it by a flat number

#

and increase by a percent

#

so trifork is a weird one for sure

#

actually is trifork the only OC in the game to reduce damage by a percent?

glacial topaz
delicate wadi
#

Is it me, or do explolsive bolts on the xbow sometimes not work with frozen/headshot enemies?

#

It feels like it sorta works the same way exploders do, sometimes?

tranquil hazel
#

I don't think it ever works on frozen enemies

#

headshots always work though, in my experience

glacial topaz
#

I have used boom bolts on praes a few times
and whenever I use the cryo grenade, I don't see it exploding indeed
fun thing, I was able to hit the haunted ghost with it, lol, only makes the green smoke for some time though

#

hmmm, bug ?
that it doesn't explode on frozen

tranquil hazel
#

not really, freeze cancels death effects

#

it makes sense to me

delicate wadi
#

Hmn, would freeze prevent other explode on kill effects?

#

like flamer/cwc

tranquil hazel
#

I don't know it would interact with the flamer since the damage might simultaneously temp shock the enemy

delicate wadi
#

Well, if it's nearly dead and you finish it off with damage before the heat kicks in

#

since temp shock isn't from any source of heat

tranquil hazel
#

why don't you try it and see what happens

glacial topaz
#

freeze cancels all death effects, or just the same as desintegrate damage ??

tranquil hazel
#

disintegrate doesn't cancel bulks or exploders

#

or many other death effects

idle tangle
#

Anyone know off hand how long it takes to charge the Coilgun at base?

floral drift
#

charge speed of 1.25 -> 0.8 sec for 100% charge time, with no mods/OCs

tranquil hazel
#

the second one is with the mod?

floral drift
#

T1.C increases it to charge speed of 3 -> 0.3333 sec

tranquil hazel
#

what?

floral drift
#

for DRG weapons that charge, such as M1000, CoilGun, etc, they use a stat named "ChargeSpeed"

tranquil hazel
#

so what is the charge speed in seconds?

floral drift
#

the amount of time required to acquire full charge is 1.0/ChargeSpeed

#

so, with a charge speed of 1.25, the coilgun takes 1/1.25 = 0.8 seconds to reach full charge

#

T1.C increases the charge speed to 3, thus 1/3 = 0.3333 sec

tranquil hazel
#

you said that in an incredibly confusing way at first

floral drift
#

i answered the question but neglected to explain the underlying mechanic, yes

tranquil hazel
#

fun!

idle tangle
#

Very interesting, ty Meat. I was talking about this to LazyMaybe, and trying to work out myself how charge speed might interact with Overcharger.

#

If my interpretation of Lazy's work is correct, 60 fps would result in 30 more damage when held for 1 second. If charge speed does not affect the time needed to hold the charge for more damage, Overcharger is adding a disproportionate amount of time to ROF for not a lot of gain basically, provided you are considering taking T1C.

#

Whereas if charge speed does affect it, you would get a much better result

floral drift
#

i'm convinced that the max damage from CoilGun T2.A is +48. i'm not convinced it's tied to framerate.

#

under the hood, CoilGun does have a Heat Meter like EPC, Minigun, Drak25, or Drills. the heat/sec while charging and while holding a charged shot are both 0.4

#

there's a value in the WPN gamefile that says the Max time you can hold a charged shot is 3 sec; i haven't verified that experimentally

#

if that's true, though, then theoretically max heat would be 1.2

#

because the heat/sec is tied to "charging" or "holding charged shot", and not the ChargeSpeed, i don't think that T1.C would affect the damage curve to reach +48

my hypothesis is that Overcharger's bonus damage is tied to the internal Heat Meter value, rather than the amount of time after a Charged Shot is ready to fire

EDIT: this hypothesis is wrong; scroll down to see what's probably the correct hypothesis

#

the HeatPerShot is 0, so that's not a factor

tranquil hazel
#

I figured the coilgun secretly worked off of heat because my heat crosshair mod was activating when I used it

floral drift
#

what confounds everything is that the upgrade gamefile for Overcharger just cryptically says "Amount: 96"

#

true, it's double the amount of damage we've observed experimentally

#

but it doesn't have any indicators of what its activation scaling is tied to

idle tangle
#

or, it's 3 seconds, including charge up time

#

e.g. 0.8 seconds charge up, 2.2 holding charge

#

I am testing with charge speed now.

#

oof, it's very hard to tell, given we are talking 0.5 seconds difference. e.g. 0.33 charge up time 100% feels like I am holding the charge for 3 seconds after, but 0.8 does feel slightly shorter... Someone with better tech and testing them me might need to confirm, but I'll try a bit more.

#

yes, based on my rough interpretation, 3 seconds includes charge up time.

#

trying a slower charge now, see if that feels like I can hold the charge for less.

#

yah ok, it 100% includes charge up time

#

hellire can hold the charge for very much what feels like 2 seconds, but base gun with T1C definitely feels like 3

#

So the question is - do guns with shorter charge up time result in more damage from Overcharger?

#

Mechanically, that would be nice, because if it was capped at 48 - there is little reason to take Overcharger with charge speed at all and OC's with longer charge up time benefit more.

#

probably about time I download damage texts.

idle tangle
#

Ok, keep in mind, I am very new to testing these things. I downloaded Sandbox and spawned a Prat on a haz 1 mission and shot it with Overcharger with and without Charge Speed. With charge speed seemed to have a damage limit past 430, but without seemed capped at 400 ish.

#

ill try a haz 5 mission as soon as I can figure out how to turn off random spawns...

floral drift
#

@gaunt cipher I've been doing some more testing on CoilGun T2.A

current hypothesis:
after a Charged Shot has been fully charged, every 0.33 sec that elapse add +8 Kinetic-element Direct Damage to the shot.

unknown.png
idle tangle
#

Wait so I was right?!

floral drift
#

it seems that way

idle tangle
#

🤩

#

Window to get max damage is hilarious however. Yes, based on me using the gun, you either have panther like reflexes or you might as well settle on a average.

floral drift
#

yeah, Mole and raw T1.C give 0.02 seconds to let go of Mouse1 to get maximum Overcharger damage. if you miss that window, it overheats and you wasted 3 sec

#

i'm pretty sure i had Mole equipped when i was testing during XP, so it makes sense i concluded "max of 40 damage"

#

i wasn't as thorough then as i was tonight

#

just verified the 70%

#

verified 168%

#

....and verified 192% charge speed

#

this model fits the data very nicely

idle tangle
#

So 96 could theoretically be some arbitrary cap.

#

It's divisible by 8

#

And would be reached if the gun could be held for 3.96 seconds

floral drift
#

i wonder if the Max Charge Time used to be 4 sec...

#

no, that wouldn't account for the time to charge a shot

#

nvm

idle tangle
#

Or didn't include charge up time?

floral drift
#

honestly at this point, i'm just ignoring the "Amount: 96". it was unhelpful

idle tangle
#

Fair

#

Given that it takes 3 seconds no matter what to get max damage from Overcharger, and T1 gives 40 damage... It doesn't seem like charge speed is worth it in the end though

floral drift
#

for 70%, 80%, and 100% charge speed, T1.C gives +8 to +16 damage to T2.A that would be inaccessible otherwise. that might be crucial for some breakpoint shenanigans

idle tangle
#

Fair, but T1A gives 40

#

I suppose it would offer you a balance between 1 really quick shot and 1 long shot that hits a BP though

#

vs a medium shot and a longer shot.

floral drift
#

#weaponBalancing

#

i've gotta tap out, work in 6 hours 😩

idle tangle
#

Night!

floral drift
#

interested to see if everyone else can confirm those numbers for T2.A Overcharger...

gaunt cipher
#

it makes sense that I missed this because I'm not normally taking charge rate

#

I guess basically the same thing happened to you in the other direction with mole lol

idle tangle
#

I think for Overcharger, you probably just take the average. So for charge speed + Overcharger, average increase is 54

idle tangle
#

Anyway, my hunt for a reason to take Backfeed Module OC continues. I thought maybe with Overcharger it might have some merit, but given base fires in 0.8 for 130 damage, Backfeed + Overcharger fires for 88 in 0.66 or 96 in 0.99... The OC is in prison of T1.2 or 3, 3XX3

gaunt cipher
#

eh, the ~0.2s window most of these have for max damage isn't unreasonable to hit reliably. it's just 240%/80% max bonus that is fucked up

#

anyways later I will probably test these numbers via a macro to control exactly how long M1 is held down for

idle tangle
#

Wait nm, I mathed wrong.

#

I think what I mean to say is, for me, I'd probably lower each by 1 interval when making any calculations in terms of breakpoints, just for some reasonable margin of error. Especially of course on the 0.02's, but probably on the others too. There doesn't seem like a lot of merit in risking the entire shot for 8 extra damage basically.

gaunt cipher
#

oh god lmao

#

I'm right about to throw a wrench into things

#

pretty sure I just got a +72 damage bonus on overcharger

#

unless...? actually wait this number is weird

#

t1c, t2a. don't have elec trail

vlcsnap-2022-05-09-04h37m51s259.jpg
#

haz 5, is this +72 overcharger bonus or something else somehow

idle tangle
#

You mean t2.a right?

gaunt cipher
#

yeah

idle tangle
#

Well it's not a weird number in that 72 is divisible by 8

#

but it's past the current theoretical cap.

#

Someone needs to just hit 96 and then we call it a day 😛

#

Or it adds damage as soon as a .33 interval starts?

#

like, is there wiggle room for another interval to start in your test?

gaunt cipher
idle tangle
#

well above my understanding of the game, so pass.

gaunt cipher
#

...I'm currently using an autohotkey script to hold down m1 for very slightly less than 3 seconds, and it keeps overheating. might not be overheat timer of 3 seconds?

idle tangle
gaunt cipher
#

No, I am not using that mod

#

script that holds m1 for 2 seconds does not overheat, 2.5 seconds does

#

2.4 seconds doesn't overheat though

#

2.499 seconds also does not overheat. It looks like 2.5s is the actual overheat time

idle tangle
#

Haha, brain go boom. So in that case, charge time of 0.8 out of 2.5 leaves us 1.7 seconds to hold the charge. Five 0.33 intervals, or back to 40 damage.

gaunt cipher
#

It might be adding +8 every 0.25s instead

#

if that's the case you'd still be able to hit +64 damage bonus with charge speed

#

also I'm pretty sure the number in that screencap was a shockwave fuckup, so ignore that

#

but time holding m1 to overheat is definitely 2.5s

short cloud
#

@acoustic scarab Hey, just letting you now : On the "weapon overclocks" page, when you click on "expand" for the colette wave cooker, it opens/closes both of the EPC and CWC overclock list

acoustic scarab
#

I've never touched that part of the wiki, but thanks 😅

idle tangle
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@gaunt cipher are you able to try the heat mod?

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Because the Heat mod I am certain is tracking 3 seconds.

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So maybe it is pointing at the wrong number for the Coil?

short cloud
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(well it's not saying much actually)

gaunt cipher
idle tangle
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hmm

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(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

thick pelican
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Here, have a beer

gaunt cipher
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jokes on y'all, we're still in weird number territory. This is with only t1c and t2a, no other mods equipped.
The trail does 1.875 per tick after guard fire resist, 1.5625 after hazard scaling so accounting for that the direct shot is apparently doing 156.2375 damage, give or take a little bit of decimal rounding from the damage numbers mod.

vlcsnap-2022-05-09-06h10m29s037.jpg
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So where's that number coming from?

idle tangle
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Overcharger is just bizarre, I feel like it's a damage mod disguised as a ammo efficiency mod. Using the Tripple Tech OC, the base gun with T2C can fire 3 x 3 bursts in 7.42 seconds (ignoring shot time), which is 105.12 DPS (also ignoring trails). It consumes 240 ammo. With T2A, we get 3 x 2 bursts in 8 seconds, which is 85 DPS, and consumes 160 ammo...

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The single shot burst for Overcharger is it's only other redeeming quality, but I can't think of a relevant BP for it.

glacial topaz
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Do we know Error Helix spawn chance ?

floral drift
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I recommend doing your tests vs Praetorians on Solo Haz4; they only have Piercing Resistance and the Scaling Resistance is 1.0, so you don’t have to do convoluted math to line up the damage number displayed with how much damage it should have done

gaunt cipher
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Yeah, that makes sense. I am still on haz 5 4p but I did switch to praetorians once I started doing my current tests

acoustic scarab
floral drift
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🤔 is that verging on Exploit territory?

acoustic scarab
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If it kills a shielded turret 40m away I'd say yes

glacial topaz
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can't you kill deeptora by destroying terrain too ?
isn't that the same thing

gaunt cipher
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This isn't even destroying terrain to kill, it's hitting the part of the model that's buried and not shielded

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which frankly is just clever imo

short cloud
glacial topaz
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can you even do that with other guns, kill by damage I mean

gaunt cipher
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Alright, so-concluded my overcharger timings tests.
Using scripts, started at holding M1 for 2.499 seconds, then went to 2.450 seconds, then proceeded to lower the hold time by 50ms each time until I can't shoot anymore.

Results-
Timings that got a bonus of +64: 2.499, 2.45, 2.40, 2.35
Timings that got a bonus of +56: 2.30, 2.25, 2.20, 2.15, 2.10
Timings that got a bonus of +48: 2.05, 2.00, 1.95, 1.90, 1.85
Timings that got a bonus of +40: 1.80, 1.75, 1.70, 1.65, 1.60
Timings that got a bonus of +32: 1.55, 1.50, 1.45, 1.40, 1.35
Timings that got a bonus of +24: 1.30, 1.25, 1.20, 1.15, 1.10
Timings that got a bonus of +16: 1.05, 1.00, 0.95, 0.90, 0.85
Timings that got a bonus of +8: 0.80, 0.75, 0.70, 0.65, 0.60
Timings that got a bonus of +0: 0.55, 0.50, 0.45, 0.40, 0.35

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This is with t1c and t2a, no other mods.
All lines up perfectly with the hypothesis that you gain +8 damage for every 0.25s spent charging past full charge, so I think it's safe to say that's how overcharger works.

floral drift
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Awesome! Thanks for gathering such a rich dataset. Science!!! 🎉👨‍🔬

tranquil hazel
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So it goes up to +64 damage?

floral drift
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Charge Speed | Max Damage bonus
70% | +40
80% | +40
100% | +48
168% | +64
192% | +64
240% | +64

glacial topaz
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Because the max heat is fixed
So since you charge faster, you can spend more time without overheat ?

tranquil hazel
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so weird

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so counterintuitive

radiant edge
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and yet ingenious

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I don't think I ever found a good use for the charge speed mod since the base rate was good enough and ammo was usually better

limpid crown
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Any info on the coil's shockwave? is it like the Boomstick?

floral drift
idle tangle
glacial topaz
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Do we know how Cooker "reload mods" interact ? I have seen the values, but not sure if it is % or flat
Wide Lense:
Radius Multiplier = 0.25
Heat Modifier = 1.1

PSO:
RadiusMultiplier = -0.9
Heat Modifier = 0.4
RoF Modifier = 2.5

short cloud
idle tangle
short cloud
glacial topaz
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well % and multiplying is the same thing
though interesting, I guess knowing the base values and comparing the time in game can be a good indicator
though given how unit works in game, if I had to guess
Wide lens is probably +25% size, with +1.1 Heat (10% seems too low)
PSO, is -90% size, +0.4 Heat and +2.5 Rof (since x2.5 seems waaay too fast)

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wait, you saying, that wide increases it by 0.25m instead of 25% ?
considering the units are always in centimers, I wouldn't expect it to be in meters suddenly

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hmm, base heat is known ? should be the only missing value in that case

idle tangle
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I thought you meant +0.4%

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Or +2.5%

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But in that case, yes it is definitely flat and not multiplying

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You are right about wide lens though, our focus was mostly on the ROF one.

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So I can release this info from my brain finally, with the mechanic discovery of Overcharger on Coil, the practical application of taking charge speed over damage in tier 1 is solely the ability to have a variable shot length, correct? E.g. if your only concern is max damage, T1A is always better. But T1C gives you a fast normal shot, but also access to a bigger long shot. Correct?

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Relating this to Backfeed Module. For a extra .25 charge length, you get get a .58 wind up for 88 damage + 23 initial trail DPS (assuming electric), which should result in a clean grunt kill. Then you get a practical max of 136 damage at 2.25 charge, which is just around 42 damage short of the 1 shot on a Slasher (which would likely be covered by initial trail damage + one more tick)

idle tangle
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Ponderings again, I still wonder if the gun initially had a charge time of 3, with the same 0.25 tick interval, and it included charge up time, because 3 / 0.25 results in 12 ticks, or 96 damage.

glacial topaz
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Anyone working on adding bolt shark OCs ?

silent sierra
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I can add them later tonight.

glacial topaz
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Aye, just being sure

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there is a bunch of names in need of fixing, mod tables for example
not counting that many mechanics without details known yet
so planning on checking them in game to fix

fathom crag
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does anyone know if rival enemies will take spots on the spawn tables

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like if nemeses would take a disruptor slot

glacial topaz
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you mean for the Warning ?
haven't checked spawn rules , no
but guess you asking if nemesis can spawn with 3 opressors for example

fathom crag
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yeah assuming its rival presence

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i assume it would spawn similar to stationary enemies/events in normal missions

glacial topaz
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yea, like Bet-C and co

fathom crag
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apparently its a special enemy

glacial topaz
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I can't see nemesis on the Disruptive list

fathom crag
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interesting. it looks like all of rival tech is special enemy, but it also doesnt seem like they take up normal special slots

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although its also categorizing prospector as special, so it may just be a wiki error

glacial topaz
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Doubt that
as that isn't any indication on "danger level"