When rigging in Live2D the stuttering is there a little but after tracking in VTube studio it's very pronounced. I used blendshapes to rig the ponytail and side pieces, I'll attach a photo of the parameters and deformer hierarchy. The physics are not keyed to anything other than the physics. Please help
#Stuttering Hair Physics
errant jewel
When rigging in Live2D the stuttering is there a little but after tracking in VT...
i notice your physics fps is set to 120 in live2d, is that on purpose? if not, that might be what's causing the issues.
idle kelp
i notice your physics fps is set to 120 in live2d, is that on purpose? if not, t...
I had it set to 120 to see the stuttering better, but when I exported it I had it at 60fps
Since at 60fps the stuttering was barely visible in Live2D but then was visible on VTube Studio, if that makes sense
errant jewel
let me copy your pendulum setup rq and see if i can figure out what's causing it
idle kelp
Let me know if you need any more information as well
errant jewel
okay i think it's really just due to the pendulum settings, i would adjust the values to allow for smoother movement when the head is moved slower.
idle kelp
I'm not the best when it comes to pendulum adjustments, do you have any pointers/resources that I can look at to correctly adjust it? Because I wouldn't really know where to start
errant jewel
i lowered the shaking influence and reaction time and that seemed to help
but i'm just on mouse tracking right now, see if adjusting those help on your end
the slower the movement the lower i usually set the reaction time
sometimes, increasing the minimum/maximum for the input normalization can make movement smoother as well, especially for pendulums where the inputs have lower effectiveness
since the pendulum will travel further even with a small input
idle kelp
this is how it's looking on the ponytail
it's still got stuttering, I tried increasing the normalisation for the angle but ill try doing pos x
kind of made it worse lol
errant jewel
angle normalization won't affect Angle X since the input is set to position X
hmm okay
idle kelp
cause I had the same issue with the face turn since I'm using aug angles. it had the stuttering. I changed it to copy the pendulum I had on another model I did and it fixed it
errant jewel
the input itself seems to be stuttering a bit too, what about turning up the smoothing for angle x is vtube studio?
what's the group for angle x look like on this vs the other model where it works?
idle kelp
smoothing
idle kelp
what's the group for angle x look like on this vs the other model where it works...
ill get you some screenshots
(this model) Aug X group
(other model I used pendulum of) it has a higher normalisation since there's a greater angle turn (-60 to 60)
I have no stuttering issues on this other model
errant jewel
and if you copy the angle normalization as well the stuttering on the current model vanishes or does it stay?
idle kelp
It stays
errant jewel
okay and the stuttering is only present when you connect live2d to vtube studio or when you use mouse tracking as well?
idle kelp
It's present as well just not as prominent, so it must be an issue with how it's set up in Live2D
errant jewel
it's just strange that it stays even when you completely copy the physics settings from another model that doesn't have that issue
so i'm thinking it miiight be something else
idle kelp
I wonder if it's how I rigged the hair since the front bangs don't have the issue. I've tried rerigging the entire ponytail using a different method still using blendshapes but it persisted
The front bangs didn't use blendshapes
nvm they did me when I lie
errant jewel
how are the ponytails rigged?
idle kelp
So in the hierarchy for deformers:
[Category Deformer] - no keys, just organising
XY - only keyed to the aug XY
General Physics - only keys X1 and Y1 and it moves every piece using a temporary rotation deformer.
Then each section of hair has its own piece for X2, X3, etc.
I've tried removing the General Physic deformer where it moved all of them at once and had it just be individual deformers, but that didn't change anything. if that makes sense
errant jewel
i mean from the movement, could you record what it looks like?
errant jewel
those look fine...
idle kelp
and I've triple checked that they're not keyed to anything other than the physics
idle kelp
Still stumped trying to fix this.. I've re-exported it, tried disabling different physics groups to see if it's affecting it, I can't figure it out :(
simple lance
can you tellme if in editting groups, do you have any blue or red?
idle kelp
can you tellme if in editting groups, do you have any blue or red?
No, not a single one
I can take a video of it if you need
simple lance
ok
idle kelp
simple lance
ok, can you turn Physics OFF
and move angle parameter, to see how the hair moves without physics
idle kelp
So turn off the hair physics?
simple lance
all physics
idle kelp
I have aug angles so nothing will move without them so I'll keep those on?
simple lance
move the angle Aug X
idle kelp
simple lance
ok, by your other videos
Can you try to fix all childs objects to make sure they are always inside parent?
idle kelp
I'm a bit unsure by what you mean by that
simple lance
in your previous videos, youshowed the deformers
in those deformers, some of them, have pieces that stick out of the deformer and others that goes out when move on keyforms
idle kelp
So making sure the child is always inside this box on the keys? Just trying to make sure I understand
simple lance
yes, the Child object, should Always be inside the parent, in all its keyforms
idle kelp
ok! I'll try it on one of the ponytails and see how it goes
simple lance
this an example of child going out
idle kelp
out of the parent box and not the deformer correct? sorry for dumb questions
simple lance
the parent box and the deformer is the same thing
idle kelp
i meant the deformer currently selected sorry
simple lance
artmesh inside a deformer is also a child
and also you want it to not go out parent
idle kelp
gotcha. so if the physics deformer is going outside the box for the XY deformer, I should be making the XY deformer bigger?
simple lance
yes, that apply to everything
idle kelp
okay i understand you, i'll do some tinkering and let you know how it goes
idle kelp
does this look right? I redid the big physics one to make it bigger and then redid the xy to make it bigger as well
simple lance
that looks fine in default position
idle kelp
the first physic for the hair does a big rotation and always goes outside the XY parent deformer, do I need to make the XY even bigger?
simple lance
yes you need to make it bigger
idle kelp
alright i'll do that and let you know how it goes
the physics deformer no longer goes outside the xy parent
simple lance
what happends if you move both of those parameters at max or min?
simple lance
ok, in first picture it goes out
do you have the same as that but inverted? where X is min and Y is max?
idle kelp
simple lance
yeah ok, the parent deformer need to be bigger
simple lance
is not big if your child move that much
in live2D you always want to make sure child NEVER go outside of parent because it can do weird deformations
the more something move, the bigger the parent will have to be
simple lance
after you check that with all the deformers of the hair, we can check physics again how they moving
idle kelp
the individual hair pieces still go out so ill make the big physic one bigger and then increase the xy size again?
simple lance
yeah
btw are you following a tutorial or something? [i ask because some movement on X1 were similar in Y1]
idle kelp
for the hair not exactly. I'm just using the same standard movement I have for the hair. I've tried a few different methods but I've liked using blendshapes
simple lance
well using blendshapes is not the important part here
i was focusing more into the fact the two movements were too similar, that sometimes can give weird result when moving in diagonal
but thats something could be important after all deformers are fixed
idle kelp
The X1 and Y1 are inverted versions of each other's movement. Since I want the X1 to move left and right of course, and then for Y1 I want to move right on -1 to simulate going down and then inverse for 1
not really sure how else to rig the big movement of going up and down otherwise for hte ponytail
simple lance
that is not bad per se
but sometimes if the physics are not done correctly, they will neutralize eachother when moving diagonal
idle kelp
I understand, I'll probably do some practice just rigging hair after I finish this model
I'll send the updated movement in a little bit
checked for the smaller physics deformers too and they stay inside the big physic deformer
simple lance
ok, if all is good yu can go back to physics first test
if issue still hapening, desactivate all Y physics and test only X physics
simple lance
ok can you record the same but with X physics? the group you showed is Y
simple lance
ok do you see how it shakes more when you go slow
but doesnt when you go fast
idle kelp
yes
simple lance
thats because your pendulum
the settings you have right now in your pendulums, dont work with very slow movements [the shake is basicaly the physics stopping]
idle kelp
Ahh i see. Is there a way to find a happy medium between the two? Cause the stuttering is very noticeable when you do a small sudden turn left or right as well which would show in use
I do think it's helped for those small movements compared to the other ponytail I think
simple lance
try to change pendulum something like this
[i will say numbers in order of colums, ignoring colum called "no" and starting with duration]
20 / 0.89 / 1.8 / 0.2
Also change the inputs to be the aug parameters, not the original parameters
idle kelp
here's how it looked with the changes you reccomended, would increasing the scale in output numbers make the shaking come back again?
simple lance
you want output max to be 100 so you can use increase-decrease as you need
BUT you have to do that when you move strongly [or it will look weird as something we say is hitting limits]]
idle kelp
it's definitely fixed the stuttering problem but the output physics isn't exactly how i'd want it
should i tinker with the pendulum some more?
simple lance
you can do as much as you need
idle kelp
so some good news, i changed the y inputs to aug as well and there doesnt seem to be any jittering, ill test just doing that on the front bang pieces and see if that changes anything
so i changed it and I believe since its now aug input the stuttering has turned to a bounce rather than a noticable start and stop which is a definitely a bandaid fix, but what you suggested for the ponytail seems to have helped so i'll try it on the side bang
idle kelp
all fixed!! thank you so much!