eyeball movements in eye open and eye smile | Live2D Community | Page 1

ornate bluff Oct 13, 2023, 8:25 AM

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i did both eyeopen and eyesmile parameters
i did the eyeball xy for only eyeopen and not eyesmile
i started doing face angle xy for both eyeopen and eyesmile
they both work great in angle xy but only eyeopen has eyeballs that work
the crux of my situation is that i know i am able to do it afterwards but it doesnt look the same as the eyeopen parameters. is there a way that isnt to just manually do it again to transpose the eyeball movements in eyeopen to eyesmile that works even after i have made all my face angles.

brazen dome Oct 13, 2023, 4:25 PM

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If im understanding this correctly, you could just ctrl shift c copy the key from when eye smile is "not used" and ctrl shift v paste the key for when it is used.

lapis turret Oct 13, 2023, 4:34 PM

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ornate bluff 1. i did both eyeopen and eyesmile parameters 2. i did the eyeball xy for only ...

this sound like you are rigging everything together
is not recomended to rig more than 2 parameters per object
for example
eyes, you would rig them on Eye open and eye smile
once you finish your eyes, you make a deformer, and rig that deformer on angle X and angle Y
this way, not matter the position of angle parameters, the eyes parameters works correctly without you needing to rig manualy each combination posible

ornate bluff Oct 13, 2023, 11:34 PM

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lapis turret this sound like you are rigging everything together is not recomended to rig mor...

thanks! im a bit confused tho, because from my experience i did have to manually do every combination so please bear with me a bit. once i have both eyes set to do eyeopen and eyesmile, if i add a deformer to both eyes after that it will follow any angle i set it to no matter what "eye" is used?

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will this work with my eyeball situation as well? because i had to do that manually for both eyeopen and eyesmile too

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say for example both eyeopen and eyesmile are already done, do i make new deformers for both eyes and both eye balls so that they work for both parameters also?

lapis turret Oct 13, 2023, 11:44 PM

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yes, it wold be the same with the eyeball movement

live2d works a lot with the idea of stacking deformers
for example

if you have a deformer with angle X-Y, and your eyes inside are rigged on eye open/smile
the eyes will work in all angles without you need to manualy do each combination

ornate bluff Oct 13, 2023, 11:47 PM

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i see wow

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im sorry this just gave me more questions then answers, if you dont mind me asking more

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so generally speaking i should be working more with deformers then specific artmeshes. and the order of operations for these deformers im assuming is very important

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so for example head/face angle xy, should i make a deformer before i even started on my eyes or should i make my deformer only after, or can i do both?

lapis turret Oct 13, 2023, 11:53 PM

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ask anythin you need ⭐

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you can do any first and any later
a recomendation is to have on mind that the best is that deformers dont move outside their "parents"
[just in case, a parent is a deformer with things inside of it, and the inside things are called childs]

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for example lets say you do angle X-Y
then you can do another deformer for Angle Z

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they are people that does angles first, they are others that do face parameters first [[like eye open, mouth]] you can go with what you feel better

ornate bluff Oct 13, 2023, 11:55 PM

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so for an extreme example like a specific deformer for every parameter

lapis turret Oct 13, 2023, 11:55 PM

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yes, that is also an option

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sometimes you want a deformer just for a specific parameter

ornate bluff Oct 13, 2023, 11:58 PM

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so i get that message sometimes "please create an object with the same parent deformer" and this has something to do with that right? this means i cant make a deformer with an object that is in another parent deformer

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i got this when i wanted to make a deformer for both eyeballs when i already had deformers for individual eyes

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so in the context of stacking deformers would this mean i would have to have both eye balls in a deformer before i make a deformer for each eye?

lapis turret Oct 14, 2023, 12:04 AM

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ok that message means, you are selecting objects that are or inside of deformers, or in a place that it can not be group

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for example, if you do a deformer with the right eye inside. then you do the same on the left
to put both on a deformer, you only select the parent deformer, not the eye pieces
because everything that is inside the deformer will move with it

ornate bluff Oct 14, 2023, 12:11 AM

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alright i see, i feel like ill grasp these concepts more when i actually try to apply them instead of writing about it so ill refrain from asking more for now about this lmao

lapis turret Oct 14, 2023, 12:12 AM

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hahaha feel free to ask anytime

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also a little exampleof that
#985916076028215296 message

ornate bluff Oct 14, 2023, 12:13 AM

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so order of operations is very important

ornate bluff Oct 17, 2023, 8:47 AM

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brazen dome If im understanding this correctly, you could just ctrl shift c copy the key fro...

i am back for this answer, im very sorry i wasnt able to reply to this sooner, the other answer i got took so much of my brain power for the past few days that i could only come back to this now

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i wanted to come back to this because i dont think i completely understand what youre saying and if its possible could you explain what that means step by step

brazen dome Oct 17, 2023, 1:23 PM

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Just read through the thread and Kibu's method is what you should use if you understand it. What I mentioned was mostly a cheat to get around what you had set up which seemed to be artmeshes keyed to 4 parameters.

Its supremely better to make use of deformers and deformer hierarchy. For the case of your eyeball xy, you could make individual deformers over each, ctrl select them, create keys on the parameter and move them together for each key. But any localized deformation would have to be done on the deformers individually.

ornate bluff Oct 17, 2023, 2:44 PM

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i see, yeah i figured out that starting over and getting good simple deformers was way easier then trying to make things work after the fact.

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but i did come back because i wanted to ask about the ctrl shift copy that you mentioned and more about how the copy and paste works in live2d

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its an entirely different topic now i know but if youre ok with it do you mind if i go over with with another example i have been struggling with recently

brazen dome Oct 17, 2023, 2:54 PM

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Thats fine with me. Ctrl shift c copy is specifically for keyforms. I mostly use it when I accidentally forget to move the key from default value when setting up a parameter and I want to keep the deformation I have already worked on. So I would ctrl shift c the keyform with the deformation, then drag the dot to the correct keyform and ctrl shift v paste. Then from the other keyform thats still at default, I ctrl shift c that value and ctrl shift v the "default" deformation on the default value. Lmao actually going through this explanation I'm realizing I just needed to Adjust the values XDDD. But I also use the copy/paste when doing specific mouth forms.

ornate bluff Oct 17, 2023, 2:59 PM

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pls bear with me im processing this lmao

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ok i tested it out and i think i know what you mean

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i wanna ask about how you use it with the mout but first can i ask what you mean by adjust the values

brazen dome Oct 17, 2023, 3:08 PM

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When you mess with a parameter, there's a box that pops up next to the value and its got a dropdown for options. Clicking the arrow, it shows 4 things I think. Select, Adjust, Change, and something else I can't remember. Select selects all the objects currently keyed on that parameter. Adjust lets you change the values for the existing keys. Really useful when you want to swap movement on the values. Change moves those keys to a different parameter.

ornate bluff Oct 17, 2023, 3:13 PM

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oh i see yeah makes sense

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last one cuz my head is gunna explode from all this info lmao

brazen dome Oct 17, 2023, 3:14 PM

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It's always here to review later and can be noted down for reference.

ornate bluff Oct 17, 2023, 3:19 PM

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if you have 2 different figures like this and i want the one on the right to be the same as the one on the left when i move parameters,

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i know that reflecting will only reflect the deformer that moved

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so i mostly just wanted to ask if its possible to reflect the same action that one does to the other side without needing to use the parent deformer to move both at the same time

brazen dome Oct 17, 2023, 3:25 PM

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I don't believe thats possible. But with a lot of symmetrical pieces like that, what quite a few people do (me included) is to set up all the deformations for the part (so for a hair strand, thats the angle xy and physics and maybe hue changes, etc) and then select all the relevant deformers and mesh and copy/paste and reflect object and include reflecting x parameters.

ornate bluff Oct 17, 2023, 3:26 PM

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oh like the eye tutorial one

brazen dome Oct 17, 2023, 3:26 PM

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Yeah

ornate bluff Oct 17, 2023, 3:27 PM

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that makes sense yeah

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i will absoultely have to return to this thread later on lol

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thanks so much for your time and effort btw, both of you who answered me

brazen dome Oct 17, 2023, 3:29 PM

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3HC_Pat3 np and good luck

ornate bluff Oct 17, 2023, 3:29 PM

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its hard to find really specific solutions and workarounds to random problems that come up, having an actual conversation with someone about it made it 10x easier to understand

#eyeball movements in eye open and eye smile