alpha-two-artisan-chat

[iron estuary]

No

(better beasts of burdens if they become one though)

[trail epoch]

The markup on caravan parts at the apprentice vendor might actually be too small given crafting costs. Havent done enough parts for the full equation yet but
12s (before tax) for 50 planks (2.4s for 10) + 3s for 50 timber (.6s for 10)
Assuming the others line up...

Thats 30s for 50 of each component, which gets you 5 caravan parts.
Which are only 10s a piece (before taxes...) at the vendor.

The markup is very small on common pieces considering the cost to craft them, and the stat increases are so low on rarity, not to mention you want the increased size, seems like it could use a bit of a balance touchup.

Id say allow rarity to increase the height/width of caravans, (Maybe every 2, so rare+/epic+ increase these values by one) then reduce the overall exchange rate by about 1/2 and reduce starting costs by the same. (So 5s to buy initial caravan and 5s to launch, then make those values affected by tax rate.)

Currently the only reason to actually buy caravan parts from a player is for the HP benefits, and you still cant really defend a caravan solo so theres not much reason to compared to just travelling in a group.

[left parrot]

Unless this changed from P1 common/uncommon/rare were a size and heroic/epic/legendary were +1 size

so heroic was the sweetspot

[trail epoch]

Interesting. I was not aware of this, made some uncommon and rare and didnt see any increase so i didnt bother using the better stuff

[left parrot]

yeah, check Ashescodex

[trail epoch]

Think that infos outdated, or their tooltips are wrong

still claims its only 1 height at heroic

[left parrot]

oh interesting thank you. I believe it was 2 in P1 but not 100%

[glacial helm]

Its things like this that make me doubt the ability of Intrepid to get the game to launch. To have the contempt for players where you have nodes dropping things in 2s and 4s, and not appreciate that processing in 5s and 10s is going to be sub-optimal, is just evidence that they are rank amateurs at designing games. They seem to be designing a game for elitist game players, which is not going to end well. It needs to be easy to play, tough to master, rather than a PITA to play, easy to master.

[vast dune]

Or it's evidence that those things are insignificant to the testing process and will be added in when they get around to it......either or.

[glacial helm]

Well the errors they are making are not insignificant to the testing process, and there is no good reason to get it wrong in the first place.

[vast dune]

I can assure you that being able to process 4 of something instead of 5 is pretty damn insignificant even if it is annoying to deal with.... I mean you saw me right there agreeing with that guy.... I want a slider or something similar too but it doesn't need to be prioritized at this point.

[iron estuary]

Epic is 2 height

legendary too, I confirmed

as for the chassis, 'rare' or higher gives it +1 width

that applies to all woods regardless of base stats

(I agree with the point re: vendor costs though)

[mystic zodiac]

when using scrolls for processing should i use them before putting the processing? or when getting it?

[trail epoch]

Before entering them into processing.

The XP is calculated then, but awarded when you pick them up.

This also means you want to put on your shirt when you place the processing order rather than when you pick it up

I believe this is because they dont want people waiting to claim orders until a given buff is up. Say the rarity increase buff.

But any various buffs apply when the order is made rather than when it is collected to my knowledge.

[glacial helm]

You keep making assertions without any evidence. Right now the artisan system has failed in every regard. It isn't fun, it is too inelastic to be driven by supply and demand, it requires too large an investment before it pays off, and it cannot produce enough goods to drive a player-driven economy. Personally I think the problem is no one at Intrepid has the guts to tell Steven that his vision of the economy is complete nonsense.

[trail epoch]

What about being able to process 100 instead of 50
Or 500 instead of 50 lol.

Same duration, same cost, (its already a formula anyways)
But less user input.

[glacial crescent]

ok i ahve a question. it says you can have 5 apprentice, 4 journeyman, 3 master, 2 grand master skills. is that across all 3 catagories. or is it. you can have that number in each catagory?

[trail epoch]

instead of forcing a person to log in and swap it out every hour, just let them queue it up and go to bed

'But what about the bonus Queue slots?'

They are still useful to queue different tasks. Say you want planks and boards. But letting people just input the amount they want would be an amazing improvement.

There seems to be a serious trend in this game towards almost intentional lack of QOL and that is not going to sell well, i can agree with swiftleader on that.

Like trying to reinvent the wheel on AH, its not an alpha missing QOL thing so much as a design choice that makes markets infuriating to use. A barebones auction hall copy pasted from any other MMO, even region/node limited, would be a major improvement to the market stall system.

[raw raven]

its 2 gm / 1 m / 1 jm / 1 a /17 n

these are for all tradeskills combined

[vast dune]

What evidence could I possibly provide to you that proves that an early alpha not having qol features online yet is not only not a big deal but is perfectly normal and happens in every game? You have already made up your mind so anything I say will simply be a waste of my time.

[trail epoch]

@vast dune what about design choices that purposefully deny QOL

[raw raven]

is it purposefully denying QOL or is it an early iteration of a system that isnt fully fleshed out yet?

if this is all we got on launch yes this is abysmal but atm there is no way of knowing what is exactly in the works for this system

even fuel for example why do i need a full tree and not make charcoal instead

[vast dune]

Nobody's forcing you to do anything so that statement is just silly and you have some weird fomo thing going on 🤣

[raw raven]

also maybe a lot of the QOL is tied to the tech trees that arent even out yet we literally just dont know the full extent of crafting

[vast dune]

I do honestly think it's a bit of both. This game is designed not to have much in the way of qol just like their refusal to add fast travel.... Many of their design choices won't be popular with people used to some hand-holding clown fiesta like WoW or something.

[trail epoch]

Its more effort to implement individual stalls than a bucket group of auctions seperated by node/region.

Like from a database standpoint. The reason AH's are so... simplistic is because your looking at a glorified database UI with basic search functions. They completely went away from that to make a more complex, both for the end user and the backend programmer, system with no upsides compared to the common design.

Like a generic MMO auction house system barely even hides the database side of things from the end user, and no one minds because its just easier to use. The market stalls arent lacking this QOL their design entirely moves away from it intentionally.

its clearly taken more effort to implement a less functional system, which makes it a design choice not a lack of QOL.

[raw raven]

the whole system is built around traveling between the nodes

having a blanket AH feature would negate that purpose

if u want them to have an AH per node then sure thats fine

[trail epoch]

.> can people not read. AH arent global. Its the general UI im referring to. But if i start talking about UI people cry 'its an alpha'

Node based AH, region seperated AH, can i say it any more ways?

[raw raven]

the UI isnt the end of the world the main issue is the search function which can be fixed

[iron estuary]

I wonder if they'll tie it to economic nodes, their top level is meant to be linked AH but maybe you need a lower level econ node to have an AH-like place rather than shitty marketstalls

[raw raven]

also afaik the current iteration isnt the end game where afaik they want individual stalls to be present in teh world so you would have to walk up to those stalls ingame anyway to figure out whats in them instead of from 1 npc

[iron estuary]

they did say that, but that sounds even worse to me 😂

[raw raven]

i mean 100% sounds worse but we can only wait and see how it eventually will turn out

[trail epoch]

It will kill any chance at the economic gameplay they keep trying to promise will be there eventually.

[raw raven]

if it gets to the point where only a few stalls are available in a given node then yeah the whole system should be chucked since only a small minority will be allowed to pedal their wares in a given node

[glacial helm]

Because these artisan professions in no way mirror real life, this is a fantastical paradigm created for theme-park games, because no one wants to make a game out of breaking rocks which is what prisoners used to be forced to do for punishment. Well, until now. Only now you have to ride around for 3 hours and then transport the rocks yourself. Then they make you pay to process them. And this is supposed to drive the economy? Then they act surprised that the economy has stalled? Imagine that?

[raw raven]

but then again it forces conflict for ppl to move to other locations and set up stalls there and possibly build better markets elsewhere and get the consumer to vacate the current main market hub for theirs

[trail epoch]

I mean... if there were... idk lets count the stalls in the market RN

8 stalls. 5 nodes. (8 nodes if we count the desert.)

There would be 64 marketplaces on the entire server.

[vast dune]

Right so those are intentional design choices.....sounds like you don't like the game.....I think you know what my suggestion is about to be.....

[raw raven]

in a map that is currently 1/4th the size of the overall map

[trail epoch]

Okay...

so times that by 4

[raw raven]

and nodes with markets that arent fully developed

we dont know exactly how big these cities will become nor how much space we will have for the available market

[glacial helm]

I think you are going to find that is the sane choice for most people.

[raw raven]

all we have now is a placeholder

[trail epoch]

..> There are still more market stalls in winstead, let alone Halycon than there would be in the entire world map that you are describing

there are 64 PAGES of stalls

lol

[raw raven]

yes in a placeholder system

[trail epoch]

We are talking about your theoretical finished system, where each one is an isolated store structure like you said

not the current one

the quantity will never reach the demand

[iron estuary]

agreed, you'd have to instance it somehow

same mistake they made with freeholds

[glacial helm]

Hmm, it has a LOT of functionality for a "placeholder".

[raw raven]

most likely in that universe u will have a "guild" market stall and ppl will value them because they are simple and can get what they want from those stalls

[vast dune]

Call me whatever name you want but I actually appreciate these choices and systems

[raw raven]

everything in this game is currently a placeholder

everything can be upgraded/scrapped at whim currently

[vast dune]

You can say it a thousand times 95% of people won't listen 🤣

[raw raven]

like im 100% agreeing the current system is a dumpster fire but that doesnt mean the end product is any representation on what we currently have

[trail epoch]

Its almost like 95% of people understand the work put in to design these systems and that they cant be so easily scrapped and replaced like that.

lol

[glacial helm]

As long as no one gets upset when people say that AoC is at least 5 years from launch.

[raw raven]

we clearly dont have enough informtion on exactly how this all will play out or what will change further down the road

[raw raven]

i mean yeah its been in development this long why bother rushing it now

[glacial helm]

Because the money will run out in less than 5 years.

[raw raven]

ur their accountant now too?

[iron estuary]

Yeah think so too, bet they'll try and launch in 2026

[vast dune]

Unfortunately we agree on that

[glacial helm]

Yeah - I think they have to. If they are 5 years from launch, we are wasting our time.

[trail epoch]

I agree, thats why i talk about the game based on what they have right now.... A lot of their ideas are still quite far fetched compared to whats in the game as it stands. If we 'wait and see' i strongly suspect you will be disappointed.

[raw raven]

"wait and see" is literally all we can do atm

[vast dune]

We will barely be in beta by then so absolutely not 🤣

[glacial helm]

If I were interepid, I'd be making artisan skills super easy, very not grindy. Far far better placeholder.

[raw raven]

and then everyone gets mad when they swap them to make them more grindy

its a lose/lose

[edgy sierra]

Sorry for asking, but I did a fair amount of searching and couldn't find a real answer... What does this mean?

[trail epoch]

Agreed. For testing you want people to reach endgame quickly so they can explore the later profession materials and find bugs...

Like for example... fucking apprentice mana salve doesnt work... at all... cant activate it lol. Why did no one find this out earlier? Because no one could even buy it

[broken stratus]

Anyone know where you can craft an apprentice axe?

[trail epoch]

ask ingame, people will tell you

it depends on your realm

[broken stratus]

oh ya, Vrya

[iron estuary]

ehhh I wonder if they made it hard to stretch out the gameplay loop. If you max artisan skills quickly no particular reason to keep logging back in

[glacial helm]

No, we are testing here, nowhere near max level. Let's get the process right. Everything can be made less entertaining and less fun later.

[raw raven]

less fun for you though XD

[glacial helm]

Sadly for Interepid, masochism isn't a common malaise!

[trail epoch]

I mean. PVP heads are laughing at the economy because the part of the game where they rely on crafting for good gear

is a lie. Currently all the good gear comes from farming mobs because of the way the professions progression is gated by nodes.

[raw raven]

key word is Currently its not the final product

[iron estuary]

Honestly I feel like that's a key problem. Crafting being painful is more bearable if you know it's the only route to good gear

like I don't mind chopping 827326 trees if I know I'll need to do that to get a good bow

[vast dune]

We have 5 months left of this phase.... No need to rush things.

[raw raven]

farming mobs in this current iteration will 100% have more value then crafting

[trail epoch]

It will be in the final product as well unless a massive redesign occurs down to the foundations of nodes lol.

Currently you level significantly faster than a node does. Or are you still sub10?

yet we can just BARELY craft level 10 gear this week, let alone the material scarcity problems.

[raw raven]

u do realise the nodes themselves were scuffed at the start of phase 2 right

so clearly that isnt implemented properly

[trail epoch]

Thats not some balance shifting. thats a fundamental redesign of the entirety of the artisan progression system

[raw raven]

so now ur basing the fact that artisans are scuffed on top of the fact nodes are scuffed like yeah ofc its scuffed

[glacial helm]

Well I think the reality is that the winners of the race who got established, are reaping the rewards and having a lot of fun. The problem is that if there are 30,000 people on a server and only 1% are having fun, that is an issue. The game has to entertain close to 100%.

[raw raven]

this isnt a game

its a testing phase

if what ur testing isnt where u think it should be move on and wait for future iterations

[trail epoch]

Thats a defense for unintended issues. Not for flawed design.

[raw raven]

its literally what i did as soon as i realised the gameplay loop for the design wasnt where it should be

[vast dune]

They will quit laughing when they hit level 50 and need to beg crafters for gear because crafted gear is far superior to drops.

[trail epoch]

Cool. Ill be interested in that when I see it. until then im going to evaluate the product as it stands.

[raw raven]

then this is all moot

[tribal spoke]

Anyone knows how much xp can I get if i craft t2 armors compared to t1? like its worth making t2 over t1 to level to 20 armor smithing?

[glacial helm]

You really think that will happen?

[raw raven]

either u focus on what the intended design is and whether or not those systems are implemented or the discussion becomes you talking to a wall

[iron estuary]

Nevrast: no

[tribal spoke]

Sad kinda, thanks Ralyn

[trail epoch]

They can promise all the design choices they want, what they have shown us is a very different game than they promised will occur. And they havent inspired confidence in their ability to change it to shape into what they have described. Words are easy, actions are much harder.

[vast dune]

It's literally the entire point of the crafting system being as complex and crazy as it is so yes...

[glacial helm]

Well - we will see soon, because that is happening as of right now. The big PvP guilds are not happy. Check the social media pages. And a lot of people are getting to max level without a lot of crafted gear.

[iron estuary]

ehh while true, their updates have been coming pretty fast. People complained about not being able to trade effectively a couple of months ago, now we have shitty stalls but still a solution we didn't have before

so I have some faith promises made will occur

[raw raven]

i remember playing on phase 1 and i couldnt even put shit into my storage without it disappearing...

[trail epoch]

True. Time will tell. Its been the holidays so there hasnt been any significant changes due to that obviously. But im interested to see how many of these issues will change before Phase 3, or if all of the time will be spent squashing bugs that crop up

[raw raven]

the game will always have bugs

every time a new system is implemented there will 100% be bugs

even during live launch there will be bugs

ive also stated before (not during this convo) the economy testing that the devs want to do during phase 2 doesnt mean this is the iteration of that economy testing

if i had to speculate the current iteration was to see if the market would even be able to function with buying and selling between players

[glacial helm]

Actually, as far as I know the promise was that crafters would make the best gear at endgame. I'm not convinced that the way to level artisan skills isn't going to be to wait until max-level. And that may be a perfectly valid design choice.

[raw raven]

and to see what the market is providing in terms of economy

[iron estuary]

if I had to speculate they realised the 'WTS/WTB' in chat was getting out of hand so they slapped together an interim solution in a hurry 😂 next up: party finder, for similar reasons

[raw raven]

XD

[tribal spoke]

Crafters still make one of the best gears even now - the problem is players outlevel crafting stations

[trail epoch]

Oh speaking of slapped together solutions. Do Market stall listings expire?

cause... um... thats a LOT of bloat if they dont.

[iron estuary]

no expiry as far as I can tell

[trail epoch]

Yikes

[iron estuary]

that's how we end up with 64 pages of stalls, lots of which are empty too

[raw raven]

hey i have 1 copper on my stall for 100g rn thank you very much

very not empty

[glacial helm]

Well yes, and that may be working as intended.

[iron estuary]

Maybe. Level first, make money, then come back to crafting as an endgame loop? Not sure I'd be in favour but it's possible

[trail epoch]

Im with swiftleader on this.

Nodes seem like endgame progression. They are the 'endgame' loop to keep people logging in. Progressing your node along with your guild and fellow citizens. This system is shoddy at the moment but unlike others there IS a clear line for improvement and adaptation here. So no complaints.

[raw raven]

also why do you think the crafting needs to be in line with leveling?

[trail epoch]

So gating professions off the endgame content...

is a bad design for professions

[iron estuary]

it kind of makes 'apprentice' gear crafting pointless though, since you'd just rush max level and not bother with any intermediate crafts

(to be honest even now it makes sense to skip all intermediate crafts like apprentice level as the cost-benefit is not there)

[trail epoch]

Hence the concern with artisan systems.... since rushing max level and boosting up your professions from there is far more effective in the current design.

[raw raven]

cant wait for the tech tree that states 100% xp gained from crafting XD

[vast dune]

You can choose to do that but considering it will take hundreds of hours I will be doing bits as I go along for sure rather than grinding it all at once.

[raw raven]

also dont forget the fact the gear isnt permanent and is supposed to deteriorate over time so u cant perma repair it

[sonic hedge]

Do I have to be a citizen to sell things in the marketplace?

[trail epoch]

Its not choice so much as, I did professions as i levelled and my gathering was entirely gated for over a week by node progression. And then when it was finally upgraded, i cant progress any further because everyone else also can now gather the better mats. Theres no reward to levelling your artisan professions any faster than anyone else. Unlike levelling, which gets you into higher level regions, better gear, etc etc.

[raw raven]

atm no u just have to be lvl 10

i think thats the plan long term but not certain

[vast dune]

Yes and that is an issue that needs to be addressed

Mostly a balance issue in my opinion

[trail epoch]

but how can they address it. Saying it needs to be changed is one thing. How do they fundamentally redesign the basic function of the artisan system being progressed by nodes rather than individuals?

[raw raven]

or the fact we dont have access to the full map so we cant just leave this current play space and find a less volatile area to do crafting

[iron estuary]

make it mutually gated, by putting potions, scrolls, food behind the same gate, so levelling is much slower without artisans

and gear (!)

[trail epoch]

The majority of people would riot if gear was gated by professions.

truly gated. that is.

[iron estuary]

well, you can just make 'good' gear gated, and shit gear ungated

[trail epoch]

In what way, are there no rewards for running a dungeon then? Can dungeon bosses only drop white items?

and even a white item at level 20 is far better than a heroic item at level 10, so a level 20 would not have access to ANY gear at their level?

[tribal spoke]

Crafting materials for the good gear

[raw raven]

i heard that some of the best items would require items from dungeons

like way back on previous showcases

so if thats the stance they take then artisans and adventurers will have to be cohesive in order to create the best items

its like the dragon dropping dragon scales and patterns to make those specific items which are vastly superior to the current iteration of gear that is available

[glacial helm]

The real problem is that levelling artisan skills while levelling adventuring is less efficient for both. Levelling adventuring, and then levelling artisan skills, is likely to be weeks quicker than doing them in parallel.

[vast dune]

Spawning more materials solves a good chunk of this.... Freeholds coming online properly will also help.

[raw raven]

also a fix to make crafting gear more valuable is to make it so npcs cant sell base white items

u have to either find it or craft it to wear it

then u just need to get it to a point where they are in balance with each other

[vast dune]

Stop basing all your decisions on min maxing and just do what makes sense for you and your guild

[trail epoch]

To be fair I can get behind this personally. But Im honestly skeptical many others can.

imagine running HH on repeat farming except they didnt drop any gear? It was only for the XP.

And all the gear you got had to be crafted by an artisan... I think many would disagree with that design.

[iron estuary]

currently non-humanoids don't drop gear either though, I thought

[raw raven]

correct thats why the "best shit" would make sense from that standpoint

[glacial helm]

Well I was really surprised the node spawning system wasn't more flexible, and more like the mob-spawning system. It seems ridiculously hard-coded.

[trail epoch]

Even goblins drop jewelry, no armor tho.

So almost every 'dungeon' environment has gear drops

[raw raven]

i was under the influence that it would be more in line with the nodes progression, so lower node lower mob level and so on but atm it def doesnt feel that way but then again this isnt the final version so

[trail epoch]

I crafted myself a full set of basic gear, ran HH and replaced it all in a few hours with better stuff lol.

[raw raven]

like common quality gear?

[trail epoch]

nah all blues and greens. but the level difference

[raw raven]

yeah the gear u get that req lvl 10 and up is vastly superior atm

and even then within it there are atleast 2 tiers

brass/tin

[trail epoch]

and there was no ability to craft lvl 10 gear to compete at the time. and there still isnt TBH

[vast dune]

So they need to address this thing of t3 spawning all over when nobody can deal with them

[glacial helm]

You keep saying that, but it doesn't seem to me that a working node-spawning system, would take that much longer to write than the placeholder they have right now.

[raw raven]

unless im the one writing it i have no idea

[trail epoch]

TBH the node system is better than i expected. Its hard-coded sure but theres clearly room to swap in and swap out models for different regions and so on. What we have so far is befitting of an alpha test IMO.

Its just asset swaps for different regions which will come along when its time for polish

[raw raven]

phase 2 i was hoping to see the nodes themselves level up and buildings pop up when the nodes leveled and that didnt happen so i wouldnt expect the mobs variance based on nodes to be working all the same

[trail epoch]

Oh functionality wise? Well. Yeah nodes are still buggy as all hell. But Squashing bugs isnt so much my concern as actual design issues.

[glacial helm]

Sorry, no. 25+ years in the IT business, they can do better than that. I guarantee the person who wrote the node spawning system is getting shit.

[trail epoch]

Interesting. I suppose it is their selling point for the game. It could certainly be improved but im curious what you would recommend for it?

I would wager it comes around to the issue of server workers. Like if it were more fluid of where a node can crop up, you would have to adjust server worker lines to compensate which isnt something I imagine would be easy to do on the fly, even supposing the terrain augmentations and other features could be shifted around to be situational based on a chosen location. Thats all just speculation tho

[glacial helm]

They should know how much copper they need per day to be mined to "fuel" the system. If they need more copper injected, they need to do that dynamically in real time, replace other node types; Spawn bigger nodes, and spawn them quicker. They should have a process watching all this just as they have them watching mobs and logging data.

[trail epoch]

oh resource nodes? i was talking like... the node system

yeah resource nodes are a fucking mess. Ive honestly said my piece on them more than enough times.

Countless solutions for it from hotfixes to dynamic longterm fixes... its just a mess and something needs to be done about it.

[hollow spade]

how much does legendary willow go for?

[trail epoch]

your firstborn child

[sinful nymph]

^

[raw raven]

they even stated the current resource nodes are more static vs the dynamic they were wanting

[sinful nymph]

What does common to epic gems go for?

[iron estuary]

Don't think they've got the staff to monitor and adapt like that

there's cheaper solutions to that problem though, even if just brute force i.e. spawn nodes quicker in times of high demand or something

[glacial helm]

No no no, you can get the computer to do that.

[raw raven]

also server stability issues far outweigh not enough copper being spawned

is there copper, yes, are server on fire, yes, then u stop the fire then up the spawn

[sinful nymph]

If there is daily reset that resets nodes we'd be fine tbh

[raw raven]

there should be

i think they just turned back on restarts last i checked in the news

[trail epoch]

And restrict high tier resources from spawning before they are harvestable... Restrict them from spawning in low tier nodes? Many angles to take but honestly seeing iron everywhere week 1 instead of copper was... not fun game design.

[sonic hedge]

Do you guys know why sometimes it says unable to interact with item while gathering?

[raw raven]

is ur tool broken?

[glacial helm]

Again, that is as archaic as the "End of Day"/Overnight run" for business/accounting systems. that is 20 years old technology.

[trail epoch]

Try closing and re-openning the game. Sometimes trees bug out serverside just gotta find other ones. Also check your tool

[iron estuary]

^server issue, relog. (Or it shows when you're taking a different action already like hitting with your auto-attack)

[sonic hedge]

My tools are fine

[glacial helm]

My tool is fine - always ready to go! 🤨

[trail epoch]

And im not entirely sure it resets the nodes either... Havent had extensive experience but anecdotally... the hotfix restarts werent resetting nodes at least the ones that were spawned in at the time of restart. gathering a field of snowdrop when it dropped me. logged back in and continued gathering. Makes me somewhat worried about the whole 'iron/tin replacing copper' concept. If a tin node spawned and couldnt be mined, it prevented copper from spawning at that location. IE, it was more scarce because its spawn locations were being 'consumed' by higher tiers that physically cannot be mined.

[glacial helm]

Again, the amount of copper shouldn't be affected by the amount of tin in the game (or vice-versa), there is no reason to have a system that has that.

[trail epoch]

Its probably due to the cost of their later attempts to make resource nodes change location based off seasons or weather etc. Making everything more inter-twined is the upfront cost for a system we dont even get to interract with yet.

but i do agree with the sentiment that something needs to be done to fix the issues regardless

[glacial helm]

Id say the opposite, a more dynamic system would be better for that as well. The best excuse is they didn't think the dynamic gathering node system would be required in phase 1/2, and it is 80% programmed in a future release of the holistic "Watcher" code. Every bit of patching they do now to get them through to that release is wasted effort, so they are just trying to do enough to limp through testing. However it does demonstrate a fairly large error in calculating dependencies.

[raw raven]

which is the end goal but not what is currently presented so until then its a waiting game

[iron estuary]

shouldn't isn't the same as 'isn't' though, we don't know what shortcuts they took to code the nodes

could be as simple as 'on server start take all nodes, make x% of them copper, when a node gets mined, respawn with x% rates in y time'

and then over time you get more iron and less copper

not intended but... don't think we know enough to be sure that isn't how it works

[trail epoch]

but we sure do know it doesn’t work

[glacial helm]

I have more respect for their development ability. That is a rookie programmer mistake. I don't think that would be missed. I do however concede that this AGILE development requires a lot of discipline. It is easy to think you don't need to write any requirements and just rely on customer stories. There are also environmental requirements that need to be defined traditionally. A customer may want to do things that are not possible given the environmental constraints. Some things are not mathematically possible. You can get it to work for 1 customer easily, getting it to work for all 30,000, much harder.

[iron estuary]

I don't know enough about programming to say what is/isn't basic skills to be honest, so you're probably right

[long flicker]

super new - lvl 11 cleric looking to pour tons of time into professions - anything fun/recommended?

[iron estuary]

if you're solo, woodchopping-> carpentry is pretty self-contained and doesn't run you out of money

if you're not solo, anything except the ones requiring copper will have you have a good time

[glacial helm]

The real bottleneck is gathering mats. Test non-mining, non-hunting sourced professions. Keep checking to see how rare the mats are, and don't go near them until the market opens up.

[long flicker]

awesome thank you both

[wanton kernel]

Where i can find soulseeker's recipes? (Mobs)

[oak spindle]

Anyone heard anything about when the rest of the basic scribe recipes will be added to the game? Some are just completely missing

[sonic hedge]

I delivered my caravan but my quest is not validated for some reason

[glacial helm]

Honestly, I'd wait for the next big patch in the new year before investing too much time. If Intrepid are half as good as I hope they are, they will realize they have to make a lot of changes to a few fundamental systems and have them in the pipeline. Without knowing what they are, knowing what is worth testing is pure guesswork. Do whatever you enjoy doing but I wouldn't get into a grind. When they want us to test stuff they will either explicitly tell us or it will be obvious. Even though I may appear hard on them, I think they are working miracles, and need to enjoy their holiday.

[weak light]

how much is 1 arcane emblem worth?

[coral oxide]

Any pro lumberjacks out there? I'm almost 20 carpentry. was almost 40 lumbermilling and 25 lumberjacking.. I have harvested thousands of trees. I have gotten precisely 5 legendary oak and 5 epic oak, 10 heroic larch and 10 heroic hemlock. When I collect 500 wood I usually get about 400-450 common and 50-100 uncommon.. Barely ever get any blue. The only exception is when I cut willow its more often than not a higher rarity, though I've only cut a heroic like once. I read somewhere that having master level in a profession can bug it out so i dropped my lumbermilling back to level 20 and my lumberjacking to 20. Nothing changed. I only have a blue axe because frankly I should be able to harvest the damned timber with it to upgrade the thing EVER. I use pylons in densely wooded areas for seemingly no effect. Is this normal?? I remember in phase one I would get higher quality wood regularly. I also get higher quality metals all the time when I mine, but wood? nothing...

[dire lily]

This has been our crews experience as well. Got very lucky nabbing 10 epic/purple larch one time and was able to make a solid ax, but that didn't help much either.

We have a small crew and kinda put aside crafting for now

not worth the effort imo

[coral oxide]

yeah I feel like rarity on the axe changes nothing

[wicked basalt]

Any animal husbandry experts know the move speed of a Tidebreaker?

[real fractal]

Is there any way to get higher rarity livestock?

Like chickens for eggs
Cows for butter etc.?

[vast dune]

not yet, once you can breed animals through animal husbandry it should start to work.

[pearl gust]

The novice woods just have really bad rarity rates. I think this is in part due to how fast they respawn. If you find a high rarity tree, stick to it. It will respawn quick and there's a high chance it will be the same rarity.

[coral oxide]

hmm ok

seems like a terrible design

[woven stone]

Just hope and pray that your cooking clothes have rarity bonus

[iron estuary]

I'm not sure this is true, I once saw a legendary tree, waited for it to respawn and it was not legendary anymore...

[maiden turtle]

High chance doesn't mean guaranteed

[sinful nymph]

I've mined the mountain above Halls of Judication for a few hours now, and have had 1 zinc and 2 halcyonite nodes spawn. Is copper more likely at lower altitudes?

[rapid wagon]

hi, i became journeyman in lumberjacking but seen i can' t cut anymore any tree, it's a bug ?

[lunar temple]

the tree may have been cut already and didnt know it yet. try to cut another

--

Has anyone ever seen the ruby ring and earring recipies drop this phase?

[mellow lagoon]

any noode got jorneyman mining certificates yet?

[rotund pewter]

Im looking in the marketplace and zinc is selling at random crazy variations.

Any good pricing guide for the game rn? because people can't seem to makeup their mind lol.

[lunar temple]

depending in your server, try starting at 15s (buyers price not listing) for common. though for zinc it may be as low as 8s

the easy answer is to look at the node market. type in zinc and undercut the highest seller by a good margin

[drowsy horizon]

anyone here who has grinded oathbearer and gotten the armored bear drop before?

[vast dune]

I've seen a few but they have a visual bug that makes them look like shit currently

[drowsy horizon]

more after info of if they stayed farmng it after gettign 1 armored bear drop, as im starting to suspect that it might have some form of cooldown before another oathbearer can spawn after armored bear is obtained of that spawn llocation

[vast dune]

Ya they seem to spawn similar to grems or ravens where it will randomly take the place of a killable version sometimes but only in a couple specific spots.

[nova remnant]

Everyone been makin big money with professions in the market places? I’ve just been selling timber

[torpid fractal]

is there a place we can see which materials need which skill certificate lvl to be gathered?

out of game i mean

[vast dune]

Ashes codex has all that info but you will have to bounce around to put it all together I don't think they have it all on 1 page.

[torpid fractal]

i'll check it out, ty

[rocky bramble]

Anyone finding any luck with alchemy/herbs? Seems very low demand and no relevant recepies around for alch? 😮

[night rose]

ALL gatherabales are locked with rarity. You can harvest legendary with crude tool even

[barren kindle]

a quick question, are all novice crafting stations not present in lionhold?

[stoic verge]

I dont think any are - they are just for the artisan/horse quest -- Novice stuff is slightly outside of LH at independant places

[barren kindle]

ok thanks, od choice for a testing fase to have ppl run around to try and find the stations and trainers

[inner gulch]

Did any server get journeyman husbandry in p1? Curious to see what the experience was like

[dusty merlin]

Journeyman not a thing yet, until nodes can level up. Planned this phase, but no eta

[jolly ruin]

are wolf bones pretty rare?

[vast dune]

i hope so because i have a shitload

🤣

i mean heroic ones for sure will be as hunting almost never spits out anything higher than green

[inner gulch]

we definitely had journeyman buildings and stations in p1, you could make picks for example

[dusty merlin]

This is not P1. This is P2.

[inner gulch]

which is why i asked about how peoples experience was in p1 lol

[dusty merlin]

We didn't have journeyman in P1. Nodes were capped at 3 then too.

[summer elk]

@dusty merlin some servers had journeyman even in P1, but only close to the end and only specific professions

[oak spindle]

You dont need t4 nodes for journeyman

You need a support building in order to upgrade the artisan buildings, you can upgrade one of the three skills to journeyman per point

There just wasnt enough time in phase 1 for many of these to get done

[dusty merlin]

My mistake then. I thought you had to be node 4 to upgrade anything.

[coarse torrent]

@dusty merlin 🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️

[dusty merlin]

😁

[split hull]

hello, are the halcyonite jewlery recipes in?

[ember ivy]

Been farming a lot for them and haven't seen. Same as p1.

If you do find. Please dm me. Cause I've lost my mind trying to find them.

[split hull]

tried the highwaymen defender so far nothing

dropped a bunch of other recipes though, looks like it has crazy loot table

[ember ivy]

I've done.. Highwaymen.. Echos.. Ashen Summoner and diciple.

[tiny palm]

Does someone know if it's already possible to upgrade mining to journeyman on vyra server? I'm not sure if its needs the NPC/ a leveled node for this

[somber crown]

Like to the station? I believe winstead just got their farm up. So there is the one civic point you needed to upgrade I believe. Rather if we have all the stations to complete the buy stations is a different story I bet

[flint sapphire]

Anyone know the XP to 10 on weaponsmith?

[frosty jungle]

40,000 I believe.

[rotund pewter]

Does crafting tier effect xp gains/

[iron estuary]

yes but not enough to make it worth it

[torn fiber]

Yep Lyneth did

It was good but the building broke on arrival

Then it was fixed then broke again lol

[flint sapphire]

100 copper later and im only level 4.4

Ive gotta process the rest

Miraleth factory on vyra goes up tmrw i think

[frosty jungle]

Yeah, I'm only 4.6 as well. It's a grind for sure.

You need about 1200 copper fragments, if you have the shirt, scroll, and node buffs.

That's quick math, so don't quote me on it.

[near tree]

has anyone successfully hatched chick eggs at their freehold?

mine have disappeared after 10hrs

[placid ice]

is it possible to get journeyman certifications right now with nodes being capped @ 3?

[potent parcel]

Only if the nodes sacrifice being able to access other crafting buildings

[drowsy horizon]

you dont even need nodes for certificate it self, you only need them for the tools

you can go all the way to gm on the start trainers near lionhold certification wise 😛

[copper lynx]

Which used to mean you could fish all the fishes but now they're (correctly) tied to pole usage

[gusty oracle]

I wish I could do all professions. So far I have armour smiting lvl 10, metal working lvl 10, stone mason lvl 10, lumbermilling lvl 10, and all gathering professions above lvl 10, mining lvl 21 lumberjack to lvl 22. I now need to start picking and choosing what to lvl and what to juggle

[gusty oracle]

unbuffed (base xp rate) it takes 2k copper and 250 wood to make shields to reach 10 weaponsmithing so maybe 900 copper with buffs

[dire pasture]

Where do I find stuff for hunting? I haven't come across any tutorial quests or anything for hunting licenses.

[toxic elm]

What can we do with charcoal ? I can't find any use of it.

[frosty jungle]

It's excellent fuel.

[toxic elm]

3 oaks (3x10 fuel) for 1 charcoal (20 fuel). It takes less room though.

[gusty oracle]

Hunting is the white mobs in the world where you go up and press f to pet them.

[magic forum]

Here's an idea. Press F to gather resource of the common kind (for fuel and node contract gathering) Press and hold F shortly on a resource to gather slower with your chance of rarity proc on. This is so you can make common gathering way faster and allow stuff to rotate more as people will use it for node building and fuel.

[sudden bone]

Cookhouse has the tool bench. Certs can be raised every 10 levels in the profession from either the cookhouse or in briormore.

[opaque phoenix]

I think the delivery to either the farm or the other direction West is intended to show you the crafting stations at that location and then you would see on the map other similar locations around the area marked as points of interest. Not sure what the dialogue is from tradesrep Deshaun I don't know if I'd read it but maybe there's something in there? (maybe not though lol)

[inner gulch]

did you see any journeyman mounts running around?

[torn fiber]

I mean yeah I made a heap of them

[vast dune]

🧐that mother fucker has a razor beak I will pay any amount of gold you require for this mount when it's possible.🤣

[lunar temple]

might i reccomend a fine armoured raptor? Its jump height is this.

this is just about its maximum height, but yes the raptor can actually clear ledges the player character needs to mantle

[frosty jungle]

Sounds great. I assume you have one to spare?

[lunar temple]

Sadly no. i am a scrub and melted all the glint i had for one

[frosty jungle]

Congrats on getting one.

[lunar temple]

guy on Vyra asked for 5g

Worth every copper

[frosty jungle]

I've never had five gold. Crafting and processing eat everything I get.

[lunar temple]

as someone who shoves 750 oak wood into a furnace for charcoal, i know.

[frosty jungle]

Yeah, I did that. It was beautiful.

Then I looked at my wallet...

[lunar temple]

immidiately brought me from level 11 to 13 metalworking with the 50% node buff

[frosty jungle]

I think I went from just hitting 10 to 11.5 or so.

[lunar temple]

convince others of the glory of charcoal as fuel. i dont think many people even know about the item. but you can totally make a profit after fees by selling each one for like 50-75c

[frosty jungle]

I'm now sitting around 15, but I can't use the stuff I'm processing because I can't get enough copper to level up weapon smithing to apprentice so I can use these t2 mats.

[lunar temple]

as a jeweler i also know this pain. i have some 500~ mats waiting for a citizen node buff.

||get someone to make you a blue novice crafter shirt with exp bonus then enchant it to +3 or so to make the shirt give an exp rating of 30+. 30 = 10% exp bonus||

[frosty jungle]

I've got so many jewels sitting in my inventory right now, almost makes me wish I went jeweler too.

[lunar temple]

ruby necklace is 6 ruby 1 copper frag. so it helps on the mat costs

[frosty jungle]

If I knew someone who could, I would.

[vast dune]

I got your back brother, I will find you tonight 🤣

[gusty oracle]

What's the going price for raptors?

[lunar temple]

no idea. this was the first one ive seen sold in global on Vyra. guy asked for 5g and im very happy for what i paid

[gusty oracle]

5g seems cheap

[lunar temple]

well the bugged croc mount settled around 6-7g on vyra before steven said it will be fixed on stream

[grand ravine]

Could be that wood is easier to find compared to metals 😉 Enjoy lvling Metalworking to 20

[lunar temple]

ive power leveled stonemason to 20 with 90% novice mats. leveling metalwork to 20? with charcoal my boy, you can powerlevel to grandmaster with ease

or at least master

[keen parcel]

Which server you on? And how much you selling Bronze Ingot for?

[lunar temple]

vyra. i havent made bronze yet

i have the mats... but stockpiling for jeweler things

[gusty oracle]

Got to do something with all that wood that isn't heroic or above

[keen parcel]

What about Slate?

im trying to get better tools so i can get better mats from trees

[lunar temple]

I sell most of my slate to vendor, but save the odd higher rarity

[gusty oracle]

High quality weapon and armor molds are a pain because the animal fat rarity problem

[keen parcel]

cool. You have anything weaving? for Bluebolt?

[keen parcel]

yeah, you'd need a very good hunter with good eq

Thats why im focusing on Carpentry and Tailoring

[lunar temple]

mining, stonemason, metalworking and jeweler are what i focus on. though a lack of node buffs leaves me at level 6 jeweler as i stockpile mats and wait for a crafting exp buff

[keen parcel]

that is smart

I need to at least make some Blue (Rare) tools

I already have 23 Lumbermilling, 28 Lumberjacking and 10 Carpentry at th emoment

[lunar temple]

i'd need over 1000 frags/ruby to get to 10 without a double exp buff

not sure if aith can nab a buff with how buggy desert mayor coms are, so might have to just drag my stuff up to miraleth for the 50%

[gusty oracle]

My focus... everything

[lunar temple]

but if they do get a bandit bully com, i will personally treck back and forth all 100 times to do it myself if the game lets me

[gusty oracle]

Armor smiting to 10, Metal working 10, Lumbermill 10, stone mason 10, hunting 10, Herbalism 10, fishing 10, mining & Lumberjack 20+

Hardest material to get rarity is hunting followed closely by Lumberjack

[lunar temple]

its better than nothing but, the app mining bags give 16 or 13? gathering rarity each. this is a global gathering rarity rating

[tawdry harness]

are you there yet? ive spent like 10hours just cutting trees mindlessly, basically chopped down the whole amazon rainforest and that only got me to level 8 carpentry.

[gusty oracle]

I didn't do carpentry as somone in my guild took that but I got them to lvl 10 in the first few days. Its easy now since you just put in a craft of 250x3 at any node with a lumber mill and wait till 100% xp buff to turn them all into crates

[lunar temple]

are you utilising exp scrolls, and node exp buff from bandit pacification?

[nova remnant]

How you guys make money? Caravaning is best but seems selling processed goods is also good

[lunar temple]

i toss slate in bulk to the npc vendor

[gusty oracle]

Caravans at the moment though I'm probably sitting on 100g worth of stuff If I'd decide to sell it

[lunar temple]

actually, shit. Selling charcoal to the npc vendor actually would make a profit i think

[gusty oracle]

Slowly moving into production mode for artisan stuff

[lunar temple]

vendor buys t2 gatherable mats at 50c

even if he bought charcoal for just that...its more than the 3 oak and proscessing fees

[tawdry harness]

bout 50% of the time

[gusty oracle]

Ye caravans fund the economy at the moment

[tawdry harness]

they put that shit at randoms times so im not going to wait all the time

how does one even make money with a caravan

[lunar temple]

thats your issue. crafting is dealing with thousands of materials. even the basic novice shirt can save a hundred or so mats

[tawdry harness]

I have the apprentice shit

novice carpentry shirt

but when my storages fill, regardless of bonus node xp or not, i run it through

[lunar temple]

rip

[tawdry harness]

shouldnt need to wait forever for bonuses, just to do something basic as hell like like 10

last bonus in town i saw was at like 3am for crafting, who does that

[lunar temple]

but understandable. and yeah...it doesnt help that novice stuff is pretty much worthless

[gusty oracle]

Anyone know what the rarity of enchanting scrolls does? Does it increase the enchantment or just the chance?

[tawdry harness]

the crafting in this game needs an overhaul, its the worst ive ever seen.

level 23 lumber jack + level 21 lumbermilling somehow only equals level 8 carpentry.

They all started at 0 together.

[lunar temple]

currently nothing spartan. you dont even get more exp for using higher qual mats if you make the scroll

[gusty oracle]

Strange I'm sure my guild mate just hammerd it out in the first few days

[gusty oracle]

That kinda sucks so scribe is useless at the moment

[lunar temple]

very much so

[tawdry harness]

just about everythings useless atm

[lunar temple]

well

its infinitely cheaper for a scribe to make a war dec scroll than to buy one from vendor

[summer elk]

I think buying from vendor should not be an option at all in a game like this

[gusty oracle]

Gonna make 3 bags later for lumber rarity and enchanting them a little for the minor buff

[lunar temple]

cant enchant bags

[gusty oracle]

😦 that sucks

[lunar temple]

ye. was quite disappointed. cant enchant tools either because you can only enchant an item unequipt

[gusty oracle]

But you can unequip bags

[lunar temple]

yes

[gusty oracle]

My dissapoint is immeasurable and my plans are ruined

[granite quest]

The novice hunters shirt is the most useless thing I've ever seen.

[lunar temple]

gives speed?

[keen parcel]

I never noticed that!!
Gotta add that to my things to wear/craft better

[lunar temple]

[keen parcel]

teh scrolls would have better bonuses.

[tiny palm]

Is it a mount? Which speed?

[keen parcel]

that is definitely a mount. I think it is Journeyman, so they probably ahve 160% flat speed

[lunar temple]

it was either 160 or 175. steven spawned one on his stream and gave it to someone

[azure girder]

has anyody else caught a lamprey?

[primal torrent]

how do you get animal fat that is better than common?

[lunar temple]

from a grem or other huntable corpse that gives fat better than common

[keen parcel]

yeah, its the same rarity of all the items you get from tanning a carcass

so you need a higher rarity carcass

[gusty oracle]

And good luck with that

[placid ice]

To craft blue mining pick, do I need all blue material or it can be something like 50+ or more of the blue material and rest greens?

[gusty oracle]

The more higher quality resourceses you use the higher chance of getting a high roll on a pick

Also a friendly reminder you can equip 3 bags for rarity if you don't mind losing some utility

[placid ice]

i thought u could equip only 2 artisan bags?

[tiny badge]

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/65129/artisan-skill-system-feedback#latest

My thoughts, I'm curious to hear what others think.

[olive pollen]

How do we obtain raptor carcasses ?

[rotund pewter]

What would you charge for legendary bluebell?

[gusty oracle]

Nope you can replace your default bag with a 3rd bag

[tawdry harness]

forgot about that, need to do that before my next deforestation expedition

[summer elk]

was anyone able to test if rarity even works? collecting 1000 wood with 0 rarity and then same 1000 with rarity for example?

[mellow karma]

is there a better way/efficient way to level jewelcrafting?

[vast dune]

Better than what? 1-10 sucks as it has the same bottlenecks as smithing

[tight canyon]

just want to check that treasture maps still dont work for people (cant accept quest?)

[north thistle]

they still borked, yeah

[tight canyon]

ok thanks

[mystic zodiac]

anyone know if the rarity of the root ball will impact the tree i plant in my freehold?

[copper lynx]

I think it's been discussed here before but I don't remember the resolution, I would suggest searching root ball in this chat

[spice star]

Does anyone one know where to make a apprentice fishing pole on the Vyra server , thank you

[bold scaffold]

in Joeva at the cookhouse

[spice star]

Thank you

[night tinsel]

wait, here is an artisan chat. Maybe you guys know a solution:
Can't send anything to warehouse. I'd need 88 slots in my inventory to get the items, which is not possible atm as far as I know. Any way to get the warehouse to work?

I would have enough space in the warehouse

[iron estuary]

I don't think 'send to warehouse' ever works, but I'm not sure what the solution is to your issue. I don't think your bags can have 88 slots...

[chilly mortar]

Can you hilight a single item and send it to inventory, then cancel?

[vagrant veldt]

Ahah if they didn't fixes this bug, you might have blocked your station
I had this in phase 1, logs couldn't fit in my bag, "send to warehouse is not implemented" to my knowledge, so you juste have your 88 items blocked in the station sry

[vast dune]

Ya I think you would have to wait for journeyman bags and hope it gives enough extra spaces

[tender siren]

i m not able to equip the fishing pole _ tried to put it on skill bar next to the pond it didnt work

[hybrid swan]

What happening when you tried? Is it needing repairing?

[hybrid swan]

Did you drag this skill to taskbar? It will shrug when no fish about.

[tender siren]

okay i got it - i was using the fishing pole in my bar - not the skill - thank you

[old rain]

Anyone else having issues with the hornhexer helm? Someone stated that the quality wasn't changing from green, wondering if this is universal issue or just something to them

[icy pivot]

I've seen blue ones, haven't farmed it before though personally.

[old rain]

I meant the crafted, someone is saying the crafted is forcing green only

[icy pivot]

Ahh okay

[warm tartan]

Anyone have an idea of the value of this? Tried searching markets but only finding white/green/blue

[iron estuary]

there was a heroic one in mira, let me see if I can find the price

heroic 2g75

so I'd guess 5g+

[warm tartan]

Ok great thanks, kind of hard to post high and reduce price if not sold when market takes quite the cut

[iron estuary]

yeah, I tend to aim low for that reason

and of course: the only prices you see on the market is the stuff that hasn't sold....

[stray parcel]

hey, any doc or scheme who give an easy view of crafting synergy ?

[warm tartan]

That hasn't sold yet.. 😄 But yeah I don't even know what we'd be getting in these treasure maps so can't really guess either. Maybe I'll just keep an eye on the markets for a couple days

were they actually fixed with the last patch btw, treasure maps?

[balmy ingot]

leggy treasure map drops tier 3 resources (steel, iron, rividium, braidwood etc.)

[iron estuary]

#alpha-two-artisan-chat message

Ussiah made those

[iron estuary]

No, I don't think so

[warm tartan]

probably an idea to hold on to the maps until we've got any T3 crafting going on here then, thanks ^^

[iron estuary]

on the contrary, do them now so your mats are the first ones on the market...

charge any price you like for whomever wants to be able to get first t3 crafts

[warm tartan]

Yeah I posted one at a crazy price and will keep the rest for a little while xD

[vast dune]

i think once maps are properly fixed they will be worth more but considering it's a 50/50 if it even works right now the value might not be at it's max

am I the only one upset that baby cows no longer stack?

you can only buy 8 at a time and even if you had no items in your inventory that means you can only hold 70ish but realistically you can hold less than 50 at a time......... kinda sucks considering they stacked fine in p1

[true bobcat]

apologies if this is the wrong place and/or if I'm overlooking the obvious; I don't want to report a bug if it's user error. I'm trying get my Apprentice Professional Cert, so talked to the Woodshop Foreman in Winstead. I got the message that "Lumber Miller is now Apprentice" after making the Promote my Lumber Milling certificate. My Artisan skills show "Lumber Milling - Apprentice", but there is a lock for level 10 / 100% which says "Acquire Apprentice Certification" from Lumber Miller Guild. I only have one other Apprentice level skill, so I'm not at cap. Am I missing something obvious?

[old rain]

This happened to a guildmate. He was able to fix it by logging out for 10 mins and closing out of client and patcher. Then reloading it up. It then showed him apprentice with 100% and after milling one item it moved him up to 11

[modest token]

I just want my journeyman mining pick

I NEED TO GET RID OF ALL THESE NODES TO SPAWN MY COPPER

[topaz steeple]

just do one lumbermilling task and you will be lvl 11. It is a bug that the lock is not removed - but it is only a visual thing.

[woven stone]

? explain more

[scenic halo]

This went away for my fishing when I acquired my apprentice fishing pole. You wont miss xp either

[keen parcel]

How does ore respawning work again? It is on a 1 hour respawn or something?

[warm tartan]

I feel like rock nodes spawn faster than metals, my experience is 2h pretty regularly for metal/crystals at least

[woven stone]

no one relaly knows

[warm tartan]

nodes also seem to just change with server resets

[keen parcel]

i know this one for certain.
This is the only reason im able to find willow lol

[warm tartan]

anyway just today i've gathered 6-7 ruby/zinc/copper nodes quite dead on the 2 hour mark between them

[keen parcel]

I hypothesize that willow and braid spawn on the same nodes, so everytime you farm willow, the overall number of them fall

czu we can't harvest braid yet

do ores spawn small then grow big, or do they spawn at random sizes?

[woven stone]

spawwn random sizes

[keen parcel]

ok, so only trees do the spawn small and grow

[woven stone]

trees and herbs have a 'growth cycle', but its visual

[keen parcel]

ididn't trees also appear to have different growth rates

Eastern Hemlock seems to getto adult rather quickly, while Western Larch takes much longer

do the ores always spawn the same thing, or do they change up

[left parrot]

same for 24 hours and then change is my understanding

[keen parcel]

anyones knows when the 24 hours starts/begins?

[agile lintel]

I saw a braid spawn on a oak spot yesterday

[keen parcel]

wthe plot thickens

that destroyed my theory then

it appears that willow doesn't spawn inside a node

[long flicker]

Trying to figure out fair pricing for my gatherables - but prices are bananas. Anywhere I can use as a reputable reference?

[true bobcat]

There may be too much fluctuation and localized variance to use anything other than short term demand for your node. Copper has been hot recently though, perhaps because of all the folks trying to upgrade tools ⛏️ 🪓

[long flicker]

So I have noticed haha thank you Toad!

[granite quest]

Try fo find what tools of that material sell for. Divide by the amount of material needed, then add 1 silver per ore, 50c per other gatherable. It sounds silly, but you will never fail to sell.

[woven stone]

the prices of farming are KILLING me, lawd have mercy

apprentice requires so many pieces to the puzzle, and theyre all $$$$

[long flicker]

I am glad I could help us vent - I am feeling a lot of that too haha

Thanks yall

[woven stone]

my two biggest painpoints: bugged recipes(like oatmeal needing oatmeal), and fkn wheat(65%+ of recipes) needing weeping willow mulch....even in the riverlands, thats asking too much

[true bobcat]

Thank you! I'd tried signing out and back in, but perhaps too quickly; waiting longer appears to have done the trick. To the point you and @scenic halo made, I'm at Level 11 and 2%, so continued to earn XP, even though I had the lock Appreciate the responses!

[supple adder]

Does anybody know the difference between quality and rarity when it comes to crafted stuff?

let's say you're crafting a piece of gear, will quality or rarity help boost the chance of increasing something from heroic to epic

would that be rarity, and quality affects the low-high rolls?

[iron estuary]

So it does increase it, but it's not a chance

You can see this when you make items made up of multiple parts, lets say you need 10 parts

if you have 0 'quality' rating, then you need 10 blue parts to make 1 blue output

If you have [???] quality rating, then you might be able to make a blue output if you have 8 blue parts and 2 green parts (or 7/3 or even less)

I don't know if the 'quality/rarity' stat works for gathering, because gathering is determined at node level i.e. the tree/rock is 'spawned' at a rarity rather than depending on the chopper (as far as I know, please correct if wrong), so not clear that rarity is affected in the same way.

You can also observe quality/rarity stat in processing: if you process a batch of 100 and you have some +quality gear, you may get 98 green and 2 blue out of 100 green inputs

[earnest yarrow]

Can we please get bows that are named after wood? of all the Bows I own none of them are copper or brass. I got one in Ash, another in Maple and even an Osage but none in Copper

[iron estuary]

You're missing out, not having a copper bow.

[earnest yarrow]

to soft and not enough spring to it

[woven stone]

Since its all vendor items, making 10x Adult cows requires 25s. To turn those into milk requires an extra 2.75s for a total of 27.75s(lets round to 28).

In order to make ten milks for cooking, you need to spend 28s.
...Its a 1:1 ratio for adult cows to milk, and for milk to butter(cooking processing).

So, in order to make damn near ANY apprentice cooking recipies, ONE ingredient(butter) costs roughly 3s. Add in the hunting the animal, butchering the meat, then making the aelan spice(dafodil+snowdrop), and....yeah, don't expect apprentice food to cost anything less than 50s each. Realistically should be sold at about 65-75s each, but who the fk in the current game economy is going to spend 70s on 1 food..?

..and thats just for grey items(you can only buy pre reqs from vendor, so no rarity bonus)

**EDIT: I did the second half's math wrong - I did it for 10x items. But, still... 7-10s per apprentice food item

gg homies

[iron estuary]

Yeah I imagine it'd be about as useful as a tin bow lol

[woven stone]

If you look at the upcoming features for Phase 2(node wars, siege vehicles, tempering, gem slots, etc.), I think a lot of "useless crafter items" like tin bowls, granite blocks, etc., will suddenly have a use

and be super in demand

like.. I imagine siege catapults requiring granite blocks for ammo

[real fractal]

Uhh, anyone else notice that shirts are useless?
I used ALL legendary materials WITHOUT a shirt and I got 200 Tailoring Quality Rating
I put on my HEROIC shirt, and I get 202 Tailoring Quality Rating?

Like, I understand it was really messed up in Phase 1, but this is a bit of an excessive nerf.

[left parrot]

that’s a really small difference. i tested it with the carpentry items, 120 total quality rating and it bumped up the health on the caravan chassis by about 15%, which seemed reasonable

[patent oasis]

is that a novice shirt or an apprentice shirt?

(the one you were wearing)

[storm niche]

am i correct to assume that the profession system will go as such : 5 apprentice into 4 journeyman and 1 apprentice after you upgrade your cert? so like every time you would tier up all your skills to journeyman for example, you would have to leave one from the previous tier (apprentice) at that tier?

[real fractal]

wApprentice shirt, I got screenshots but I cant link it for some reason.

[stray parcel]

is it possible to enchant gear at the moment ?

[lunar temple]

yes but its very minimal and expensive

[stray parcel]

how to get the brown item ?

the charm thing ? dont remember the name of it

[summer elk]

not sure how you got 15%, I had around 100 quality rating when making caravan parts and the difference was much less than 1% with and without the shirt

[junior quartz]

Got my rare apprentice lumberjacking axe yesterday. 191 speed, plus the apprentice clothes. Can't see any difference in speed chopping down trees.

Is the speed rating busted/bugged? Anyone else tried comparing before and after getting upgrades when gathering?😬

[lunar temple]

so when looking at the node buffs you can see the 50/100% bonuses gives you an exp rating of 150/300

Therefore 30 = 10%

With a blue lumberjack axe and app gear you have well over 300 speed rating which should be twice as fast if this scales correctly.

But it is not twice as fast, speed rating is completely broken

[final lintel]

I noticed the same for mining. No changes in mining speed after upgrading the tools/clothes that are supposed to give gathering speed upgrade.

[junior quartz]

This speed buff bug should be so easy to fix. I'm gonna bug report. Everyone else should do the same!

[lunar temple]

i have

[iron estuary]

in lumbermilling, the speed increase is quite funny. Something that should take me 10 minutes to process, now takes me... 9 mins 56 seconds

so I guess it works? 🤣

[vast dune]

I'm more upset that baby cows no longer stack so you can only buy 8 at a time and can only hold 50ish at a time realistically. I want to be able to run 100 when I log off 😭

[icy ore]

Hmm, it's not so minimal on low level stuff. Atm, the "meta" on Lotharia is to enchant stuff below 20 which have your interested base stat (Str, Int, Con...). Each enchant is +1 on base stat. Imagine someone which have full intelligence gear +5 for example.
It's totally outplaying set like Rosethorn, Bloom Warden... Which cannot be enchanted atm because we don't have journeyman scribing station (And it seems it's not planned as we don't have enough nodes).

Anyway, I think enchanting need a little tweaking. Atm it's strong on low level equipment, but later, on high level stuff, if enchanting stay like that, it will be expensive for very little bonus.

[honest canyon]

anyone know if anywhere has upgraded fishing to journeyman? Id really like to make a new fishing pole as my fishing is at 29

[honest canyon]

vyra.

[lunar temple]

no one has journey stations up yet

[lapis valley]

Can you "Hunt" the lvl 20 riverdance Otter?

[lunar temple]

yes. there is a spawn in the mountain lakes between halc and joeva

[lapis valley]

Ok that river with the cluster of them?

[lunar temple]

the one i know of was about here

tiny red dot in center

[worn gull]

I think the biggest misconception right now is that people are saying its not worth crafting because the end results you are producing isn't profitable, but I doubt it ever will be in lower levels.

Generally in player driven economy MMOs, its not profitable to craft at low levels unless you find a specific niche market or use recipes. This is because people want to level their crafting skills, and will craft at a loss to gain xp quickly.

For example in the future, maybe at 40 cooking when you use all the boosts and find a recipe to craft a good buff food you might make back all the gold you spent crafting the shitty low tier food at a loss. The issue right now is the crafting system isn't finished so there is no "light at the end of the tunnel", just pain. Perhaps once level 20 gear is craftable + enchantable, it will be profitable to craft level 20 gear.

[woven stone]

You're absolutely correct

We just won't see those boosts until release 😭

[rigid nova]

are they respawning as huntable here?

[lunar temple]

that specific one was. i dont know if its seperate from hostiles

[rigid nova]

I spend an hour killing otters on island above New Aela, got 0 spawns of huntable 😦

[lunar temple]

or if it did respawn from one

just know that it was always there (on vyra) before app hunting and stuff came in

[vast dune]

holy fuck I'm so happy...............I got an uncommon butter I can finally make a food that isn't common

damnnn and then in a combo double update my uncommon shit turned out a rare food

base is 36 and 24 so rare is almost double

[glacial helm]

Well, my biggest gripe with intrepid is that despite all the talk about Agile development they have a lot of conformation bias towards their original design and are very resistant to change. This looks far more like a traditional development process than Agile, which is the fault with most Agile development; it is an excuse for "Lazy" development. So, I find most of the apologists for the lousy gameplay in AoC, seem to offer future benefits weeks and months down the line, but that isn't the way "Entertainment" or games work. You don't go and watch the first part of a trilogy, because you think part 3 will be worth watching! Levelling is supposed to give more rewards at the start not less. And this is my second gripe with Intrepid, they seem to be ignoring basic game theory. This just isn't going to end well, unless they start listening to their customers.

[vast dune]

agile development doesn't mean they will just change their design based on what people give as feedback it means it has shifting priorities and timelines

[glacial helm]

You are incorrect. It means exactly that the design will change.

[vast dune]

[iron estuary]

I mean, my mate's trying to get me to read Brandon Sanderson because book 5/5 is good 😂

I think more to the point, it takes time for intrepid to code anything so they won't want to jump this way or that immediately because of feedback, it'll take time for them to a) design what they intended b) modify designs c) implement

and ofc they took xmas off

[vast dune]

means the design CAN change.

[glacial helm]

Well no complaint about them taking Xmas off, and I am saying that how they handle this is going to be very indicative of success or failure, and how long it may take to achieve one of those two things, but I still think this could have been avoided with a bit more attention to process.

[glacial helm]

No, because design is postponed. You shouldn't really have an ultimate design in mind. You need to go where the customer stories take you.

[raw raven]

right now those **stories **are telling them the **placeholder **concept they have sucks, 😲

[proper scarab]

I stil feel open world pvp will nuke any prospect of a financially viable population to this game imho 🤷‍♂️

Not when theres a plethora of sanctioned pvp systems already

[glacial helm]

Yes but the "placeholders" seem to have been hedging rather heavily towards a certain design. And that design seems to run contrary not only to game-theory, but economic theory, and even their own risk/reward design pillar. This is why I see it as such a big defect. How they deal with it is going to be very indicative of whether the project will succeed. I would have liked to seen faster acknowledgement of it. Their communication with their testers is pretty bad. I know we are second-class testers, but either they need us or they don't, and again if they really are committed to Agile, they need us.

[raw raven]

overall goal is to make crafting at endgame provide the best results, require a lot of effort in order to obtain those results, lastly ensure not everything is the same wherever you go creating a variety of markets within the world

also have profs intertwine within requiring multiple profs to achieve a result

also requiring multiple individuals for those profs instead of 1 player doing everything solo

[glacial helm]

I understand that in order to make something valuable, you need to make it scarce. However, there are plenty of ways to make something scarce, other than make the levelling process a miserable unentertaining experience. Personally I thought they would go the "Finkle's skinner" route, where crafting was gated behind PvE "Group" content. Not repetitive boring gameplay.

[raw raven]

they have shown that already with firebrand having recipes and requiring scales to make those recipes, no?

[iron estuary]

a bigger map might fix most/all scarcity issues too..

as might progression, i.e. people levelling beyond copper etc

[raw raven]

even the gathering system is placeholder

its like complaining the markets suck when before the markets you couldnt even post anything and had to spam chat to trade. this is improvement even though current the current market is a dumpster fire

[glacial helm]

Yeah, but calling the gathering system a "Placeholder" is ridiculous. It is 80% complete from a design perspective.

[raw raven]

one of the biggest complaints is the mining gatherables which are currently still placeholders since they arent dynamically implemented yet which is the end goal

and even then the gatherables exist but the other interactions we will have with them within the tech trees and so on arent implemented yet either

and to top it off this is only the first half of professions, which generally are very basic and generally are there to provide a gameplay loop required to eventually progress towards the more compelling aspects of the system

[glacial helm]

Sorry choosing a static spawning design, instead of a dynamic spawning design, can't be sold as a placeholder. You obviously work in sales!

[raw raven]

its literally one of the biggest issues right now within the system overall...

so currently the static is a placeholder system since the overall design would change the way the other profs are able to progress

[glacial helm]

I don't see how a dynamic spawning "placeholder" would have taken more time to develop than a static one. Unless the static one came free with UE5.

[raw raven]

static u literally just place node locations and then put them on a timer with no variance

ofc thats the simplest form to provide

[glacial helm]

If you have programmed, then you would realize making them dynamic is a trivial process.

[raw raven]

idk the extent at which they are planning on making them dynamic or how that will affect the SW and stability of the currently unstable servers vs the very basic static ones

but currently with how unstable the servers are im not surprised that they arent implemented

[glacial helm]

Yes, but having the ability for them to be dynamic, and implementing all the ways you invoke that process are different. There is no good reason for not writing a flexible node spawning process, particularly for an Agile development, unless you are given one free. And honestly even if you were, not having it before phase2 of sprints, seems foolhardy.

[raw raven]

well first off u want to have something, so static would be first go, then attempt to provide the dynamic version of it so if the dynamic version wouldnt function properly you can then proceed to return to developing the current iteration of the static design.

which is the whole point of agile

[glacial helm]

Yes, I can see how to a non-programmer, that would appear logical, but that isn't the way it works now with modular design. Writing static costs the same effort as writing dynamic. Essentially the dynamic one just accepts parameters when it is invoked.

[raw raven]

its not about cost its about function, i know how the static version needs to be designed since its the simplest form, but im unsure what the dynamic would require, so you start with a static concept to have a baseline and then focus on the dynamic model next.

[glacial helm]

It seems that way, but at a programming level it costs no more time to write, spawn_node (copper, 27, 56, 2) as it does spawn_node( a, x, y, z). And that runs all the way up the layers.

[earnest yarrow]

I'm going with Lazy Coding or rank amateur hour. 20 years of gaming, with every game I have played having a key bind to reply to a /tell, except AoC. No need to reinvent the wheel to add a basic functionality.

[iron estuary]

Sure, but probs just hasn't been a priority.

[earnest yarrow]

Priority to do some thing right the first time?

[iron estuary]

you tell 'm chief

[copper lynx]

I will say please don't try and enchant your crafting clothes - my apprentice fishing pants went from 16 XP bonus to 17 - absolutely not worth it unless you like burning money

[glacial helm]

That really goes for the entire artisan system, it is grueling, expensive and unpleasant for the sole purpose of making it scarce, which isn't good game design. I am just not certain it is required though. Make it so you need 5 gatherers for every processor and 2 processors for every crafter and as long as you make gathering easier than processing and processing easier than crafting, the math is going to make crafting scarce for you. Most adventurers would rather take gathering anyway, as that is THE route to PvP obtained end game gear; by gathering in the lawless zones. And honestly ALL players would be wise to take 1 gathering profession all the way (in an open world PvX game). I think Intrepid need to trust gameplay mechanics instead of real-life economics, they are not the same.

This is what drives me crazy about this game, they know exactly how much copper and every other resource needs to be in the world, to progress professions at the rate they want. Just get out your desktop calculators and work it out! There is no excuse for missing by as much as they did. If I use Agile to develop a banking system, I'm still going to have to program foreign exchange calculations the "Right" way, regardless of what the customers want.

[raw raven]

they do have enough copper, its just on the other parts of the map

[glacial helm]

Again, they can generate enough copper to meet demand. Just have nodes drop 100 copper ore for the test. If that is too difficult for them sack them and get better programmers!

[raw raven]

or this is just testing what if everyone was in one zone how would the economy look like

[glacial helm]

A hell of a lot better than it does now. For the copper product economy to work, a sufficient supply of copper is required.

[raw raven]

how would it be better if this is a stress test for overcapacity of players in a zone...

just because they can just increase the numbers doesnt mean they want to...

and its far better to slowly increase the number vs a giant jump

[glacial helm]

Why would they want to test overcapacity? What is that doing?

[raw raven]

thats not for me to decide, but they also dont want to flood the server with an infinite amount of resources either

there are multiple reasons as to why we went for X amount of servers down to 1-2 servers

if there were 10 servers with even populations we wouldnt have as big of a problem with copper as we currently are facing

[glacial helm]

Which isn't what I proposed, I'm just saying that if they want the artisan system tested it isn't hard to provide sufficient resources to test with.

[raw raven]

and im saying maybe they arent looking at that specific test currently

mainly due to the fact that the things they have implemented are placeholders

[glacial helm]

I see no instruction not to test the artisan system.

[raw raven]

i see no specific instructions that its the primary focus currently

economy testing could mean many things

one of which could simply be the interaction with the market place

[glacial helm]

Then how do we progress gear and nodes?

[raw raven]

even the nodes themselves werent working properly

they had to be manually advanced

and the vasseling system wasnt working either

also they have been on break since the 20th

so you wont see much of an increase till after the 6th

when they can really take a look at how things are playing out

concidering it was stated that the amount of copper in phase 1 is about where they wanted it to be

[icy ore]

Check this : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2344169344 near 8:45 when Constantine open his gear inventory. It's worth on base stat (STR, INT, CON...) because it's +1 on these stat at every enchant.

[glacial helm]

Seriously, you are just making them look more and more incompetent, by defending them. I think if there is any hope the game will launch, we have to hope they know they screwed-up and will correct it.

[raw raven]

yeah so instead of freaking out over it now demanding more copper every day

ill just wait and see what they decide to do

after they return from break

i just dont expect instant results in this process

[ashen plover]

Go take a nap, you are too grumpy

[glacial helm]

I'm not demanding more copper. I'm trying to understand how their design was so far away from a customer story. Honestly I am the ultimate crafting grinder in MMOs, afaik in vanilla wow I was one of the first players on my server that had alts with all the professions maxed out. Then same in New World. Same in Guild Wars. Same in Star Wars. If they missed my requirements/story, by as far as they did, then I'd like to know what methodology they were following, because it wasn't Agile.

[ashen plover]

Bro, you need to go study a bit more about the game you are talking about.

I suggest you read up on item deconstruction and on regional differences on gathering materials.

[glacial helm]

Anyway - Plahvix is right - I have probably ranted long enough, but they are testing and they don't have a system yet that can implement regional differences, so why you think that is an excuse is beyond me. Talking with non-programmers is just frustrating. Anyway, I'll be back when they have something worth testing.

[uneven hollow]

You sound like you are getting your £120 worth of Alpha!!!! 😂 love it when people do no research. The economy of this game is going to be one of the best elements I think, it is not in the alpha yet though so not a lot of point complaining about it!

[glacial helm]

If that was directed at me then believe me, when I say that I have done my research. The economy is going to be crap, because losers in the economy, are not obliged to keep playing as they are in real life. What happened in test will happen in live. All the losers in the game will quit playing as soon as they start to lose. When you make a game you need to respect game theory. When you start a real life business you follow economic theory. The technical aspect of the game is out of this world, but they really need some help from a professional Game Designer.

[glacial helm]

Take Civ7. They assessed that players losing the race to build a wonder, caused too many players to rage-quit games, that is because even if you refund what is spent on the wonder, you cant refund the loss of achievement in building the wonder. Now in Civ7 you can start a new game, in a MMO you just quit. Intrepid are 180 degrees going in the wrong direction, by penalizing people heavily for losing, and rewarding people too much for winning. For example vassal nodes are a truly awful idea. The minute a node is made a vassal, all the citizens of that node will instantly quit playing the game. No one will want to risk investing x weeks of gameplay and have that happening again.

[vagrant veldt]

Who are you to talk about game design that is not already implemented or not finished ? You talk about programming, are you in the dev team of the game ?No, I don't think so, because because I don't get the impression that you know what the devs are doing and why the subjects you're talking about aren't a priority.
There is enough copper on the map, if you take time to find it. The game is not supposed to be finished in 10 hours, the phase 2 is live for couple of month so you have time to find it.
But keep embarrassing yourself in this chat talking non sense and think you know better by "thinking programmatically". This version currently avaible is what the testers want us to test, so test it with the resource given, and if you are not happy, ticket them to say that you want more copper.

[stone karma]

It would be nice if they increased the amount of certain resources like copper, zinc and willow for the testing phases.

[raw raven]

id rather they implement the other systems before increasing the resources so we have a better picture of what that all entails before we just start boosting the number of resources

[stone karma]

Which other systems are you referring to here? (Sorry, late to the conversation)

[raw raven]

mainly the tech trees

[vagrant veldt]

For which reason ? If you don't test like the live condition, what's the point ? You won't see if there is enough resources, or if the crafting needs rework or something like this. Evryone said that there were not enough copper in phase 1, but everyone that wanted to train the metalworker and armorsmith or weaponsmith managed to get it to apprentice or higher

[glacial helm]

Ok, in those terms, I have tested what they have and I have found that it doesn't work as a foundation for a game. They need to change it and I will retest it. These are design flaws not bugs. I don't fault them for the flaws, if they are using Agile. However, they seem to just be paying lip-service to Agile. Nothing they are actually doing seems to indicate they are using it, or even know what it is.

[stone karma]

That kind of balancing of resources will typically happen in beta testing. Right now it's impossible to test whether apprentice crafting works as intended because there aren't any materials to work with.

[glacial helm]

If they are using Agile, there should be no "intent"!

[raw raven]

define the agile system for the class if you would

[stone karma]

What does agile methodology have to do with this?

[vagrant veldt]

let him in his dream he is high

[glacial helm]

You design the system according to the player stories while using each iteration in the test. In other words you iteratively improve the player/user experience. It is so you don't go off and create things that the user doesn't want, even if they think they do without seeing it.

[raw raven]

but first you need a baseline so there has to be an "intent" to start with in order to improve each iteration...

[vagrant veldt]

the beta test was for server stability. Same goes for the phase 1 of alpha 2, now in phase 2, they will start to implement the crafting in more details or other systems.
And as I said, if you find resources, you will find the resources, we have already a lvl 15 metalkworker in the guild, and we are 10 in the guild

[stone karma]

Errr...what? We haven't even reached beta testing yet...

[glacial helm]

technically yes, but not in terms of user requirements, and we moved to phase2 so you'd think we went past that.

[vagrant veldt]

oh yes mb

[raw raven]

just because you think we would doesnt mean we did

hence why there are a lot of placeholder content that isnt fully implemented

[glacial helm]

You re like something from a Monty Python sketch! This isnt an argument!

[stone karma]

In my opinion, if they want us to properly test the mechanics of the crafting system they should give us an abundance of resources, especially with the current map being (relatively) small.

They can always reduce the amount of resources later on to test the balancing, which will usually come in beta testing.

[glacial helm]

I know you guys think I am an idiot, but I really am trying to help. I do know a lot, and I really would like this to succeed. I think honesty is going to be more productive than just kissing a**.

[vagrant veldt]

So correcting bugs is not improving user experience ? Adding assets in the empty desert wasn't improving user experience ?
Crafting system is just barebones , as a lot of things in the game, they designed a roadmap that they are following, and they fix bugs and add the content that they said in the roadmap. That's being agile because when there is a bug, they work on it as fast as they can to fix it, accordingly to the importance of the bug. That's being agile

[stone karma]

I don't think you're an idiot, I'm just confused why you keep bringing up agile and user stories in all this. It makes no sense.

[glacial helm]

Kind of, but Agile isn't just "Testing", it is Design-Development-Testing. They really shouldn't have added resources to the Desert until they got resources working in the Riverlands. Now they will potentially have to change both the Riverlands and the Desert when they fix it.

[glacial helm]

You probably have to take a 2-3 week course like I did when I was a PMP, but you could try reading about Agile Development Methodology online.

[stone karma]

I know what agile is, I've been on teams that use it. I just don't see how it's relevant to the discussion of resources in the game

[gloomy tartan]

What needs to happen to start building Journeyman stations?

[vagrant veldt]

Help node with commissions, to bring them resources, next to the storage clerk (I think it's mayoral commission)
Pay taxes to give the node money to build it, and the mayor will order to build it

[gloomy tartan]

I mean what are the prerequisites to start building them, not how to build buildings.

[glacial helm]

Well with Agile you don't move on to the next iteration until the deliverables from the previous iteration are complete. It is sort of the basis of the whole thing. The iterations were supposed to be the weeks, not the phases, so this should have been sorted out before moving on. They are now building bad on bad, which is what Agile hopes to avoid.

[vagrant veldt]

The mayor order to build it, if he has the resources (money + materials) to do it

[stone karma]

You're assuming a lot about how Intrepid are handling their development pipeline here.

[raw raven]

its almost like we are like 3rd in line to test things....

[vagrant veldt]

@gloomy tartan if you press N, you can check the possible building in the node, the demanding resources, ...

[glacial helm]

I'm actually taking them at their word. If I had to guess though, they are only following Agile in the sense that Steven is representing the role as the customer and it is only his story that matters. If that is the case, he is in a really compromised position, but as it is his money, that is the way it has to be. That would be my assumption, and it wouldn't make me very optimistic that the game will be successful.

[vagrant veldt]

an alpha is made for test. The studio clearly said : "You are not here to play, you are here to test".

[rigid nova]

Does anyone have any idea why it's still green?

[iron estuary]

could be a visual bug - make it for science?

[rigid nova]

What if it's not a visual bug? XD

[stone karma]

You need an epic cut emerald to make the epic item

[iron estuary]

then you get to bug report it 😂

[rigid nova]

done

[vagrant veldt]

it's not really important what color your item is, you have a range of values possible inside a rarity, maybe the cut emerald has more "weight" than your bluebell thread

[iron estuary]

the emerald looks heroic though not green

[rigid nova]

That's not how it working with other crafts

[rigid nova]

It's legendary

[vagrant veldt]

oh really ? I'm colorblind, sorry. Then it is a bug, report it

[iron estuary]

even better, yeah report it as a bug

[glacial helm]

If I am just testing in the traditional sense. Then finish coding the damn thing! I can't test it when it isn't written yet. The thing is too bug-ridden to be tested.

[stone karma]

I haven't tried other crafting, but the same thing happens in tailoring. If I try to combine an epic linen thread with an uncommon grem skin it will make a rare finished item.

[rigid nova]

and that's ok, you color would be mixed in proportion of type of mats required

[iron estuary]

^yes it usually 'averages out' for given values, you need to hit 'enough' rarity to get the next level. Within a level it then has stat ranges.

[vagrant veldt]

Which part is not written yet ? Which part / system are you talking about ???

[gloomy tartan]

Dude, I know how the buildings work, let me be more specific: what are the node level, other buildings already built, etc. requirements to build journeyman level buildingsÉ

[vagrant veldt]

@rigid nova you should have more these values

[rigid nova]

Yep, it should be closer to right side of "value forks", couse of legendary gems

[glacial helm]

Turn it round, what part/system do you consider complete?

[iron estuary]

did you actually just get a base green values RedSRichy?

because that's definitely a bug then (not just a visual bug)

[vagrant veldt]

there is none to my knowledge, everything should be written in the node ui
Node lvl only permits to build more building i think

[rigid nova]

i didn't craft it, don't want to risk. But UI tells me that it would be lowest green values

[iron estuary]

I'd risk it honestly

I've had a few cases in the last phase where the UI was just wrong

[stone karma]

None of it. I don't think there is any system in the game that is considered "complete" yet

[vagrant veldt]

None is complete, a lot is implemented, test what is implemented, the user demands will come, and so your user stories with it

[iron estuary]

(can't guarantee it of course, but ehh, worth the chance I think)

[gloomy tartan]

Ok, I'll try to find the answer somewhere else. It's ok to not answer if you don't know.

[glacial helm]

No - I am only testing. finish the code, and I will test it.

[rigid nova]

I will bring some lower-cost resourses to test, don't want risk with this ones

[vagrant veldt]

ok then come ack in 2 years

[glacial helm]

More like 10.

[vagrant veldt]

Look, I said how you could check it for yourself. I will show you then.
So you press "N".
You go in the "Buildings" tab
You click on "Empty Plot"
you click on a random building that you want to build
You click "select building"
You have for example the smithy cf first image
Then to right you have your "Building upgrade tree" cf second image
As you can see, you dependances are here. + Node lvl permits to have more building. + Node lvl cap the level of the lvl of the buildings you have in the city. Currently you only have journeysman building.

And you can check theses informations of the wiki : https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Constructible_service_buildings
The system is not completely implemented so we don't know which node level cap the lvl of the building.
You are welcome.

[main marlin]

Question; Is there any way to get fine paper in higher quality than common? Because it reducing the quality from legendary outcome to heroic is kind of a bummer

[lunar temple]

its a vendor item so not really atm

also, we really need the ability to mix and mach quality ingreedients in proscessing

using a heroic slate mold is really gonna dampen my pick quality...

if i can even find a heroic willow board

[stone karma]

Lol good luck with that!

[lunar temple]

[stone karma]

I think I've seen one willow tree in the wild so far....

[lunar temple]

ive nabbed 2. but lumberjack is a flex spot to feed charcoal

[gusty oracle]

That's because I'm chopping them all

I spent this weekend chopping trees after I got annoyed with no high quality wood on the market https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1299155791609069659/1325480637708369991/image.png?ex=677c9a4a&is=677b48ca&hm=28e9741fd48d0a82830335681276eae70759903c77aef8af7137173bb22992bc&

[stone karma]

That's a good haul.

[gusty oracle]

Managed to craft my legendary axe

[stone karma]

And yeah, there is a shortage of wood all around, at least the wood that matters (western larch and weeping willows)

[gusty oracle]

Ye the willows are out there but just like copper everyone that sees them just grabs them so they don't last long

But iv stacked my Lumberjack rarity rating to 205 so I'm getting a few higher rolls

[stone karma]

I really wish they would increase the amount of copper and willows in the world. Hard to test the crafting system properly when there isn't enough resources to make all the things. The willows especially, since most apprentice crafting recipes rely on them

[gusty oracle]

Ye but hopefully with people going back to work now population will drop slightly. And with iron being the next big thing for journeyman it won't be to much of an issue

[sweet holly]

Ive never had an issue finding Western Larch

[gusty oracle]

Iv had an issue finding mature Western larch

Nothing worse that getting a high quality roll on a adolescent tree

[sweet holly]

^^ yea sometimes, again its one of those things everyone is after

[gusty oracle]

I wish I could do all the artisan stuff as I'm struggling to decide on what journeyman stuff to take.

[stone karma]

Yeah there is Western Larch but finding adult trees is really hard. I had to resort to mountain climbing on the very edge of the world boundary to get some.

[gusty oracle]

And I bet after all that effort you mostly got common

[lunar temple]

tfw you get accused of exploiting for selling bulk tin ingots for 11s

[stone karma]

Yep, because I'm still novice rank with no quality gear. Was hoping for a rare drop to get a decent apprentice axe.

The worst thing about that is there were more larch trees outside the world boundary that I couldn't reach. They were there taunting me!

[lunar temple]

app lumber gear doesnt give rarity anyway. or not much. try getting app miner and equipping the bags. will give you 32 global gathering rarity

[stone karma]

Oh really?

[lunar temple]

which...yeah. app lumber stuff gives no rarity except for maybe the axe.

ye the axe gives a bit. got 62 on a rare axe

[gusty oracle]

Axe and baskets give rarity

Got 205 rarity and 203 quantity

[modest wedge]

Are Trees now truly random? Haven't done much T2 chopping recently but in P1 and start of P2 if you say got an Epic Weeping Willow that tree would respawn in same spot bang on 4 hours later with same rarity.

[gusty oracle]

I think there are some fixed rarity spawns but I think it works like mining for willows where every 24h or server restart its randomised seeding of the world and tree type.

[reef delta]

What's with the rumors about a croc nerf?

[sweet holly]

Something Steven said on his live stream, so people think it will get a speed nerf

[lunar temple]

Rumors? Nerf? Nah man, its a bug. its swimming speed is its land speed.

[reef delta]

So if it gets slower
What's the fastest one? The steed?

[lunar temple]

think so ye. till journyman comes up.

[reef delta]

WST croc! Cheap 😜

[lunar temple]

[gusty oracle]

You and everyone els on the server

[long fulcrum]

Hey guys, do you know if you need to equip lumber miller pants etc when starting the craft or claiming it?

[buoyant wind]

once my hunter skill is up I'll be giving away all the top end mounts. Enjoy the income while you can. heheh

[lunar temple]

all buffs apply when starting the craft or proscess.

[long fulcrum]

TY very much!

[reef delta]

How do i stop the Silkworm from moving?

[lunar temple]

you dont. rightclick hold and folow the grub

keep it centered

[reef delta]

But if I move it stops

[spark dirge]

Can anyone help me understand the use of clothing when crafting gear? I heard you can use clothes to use say rare materials and get heroic gear. But I tried with the apprentice clothing from the vendor on 50ish crafts and didn't get a single craft of higher quality rarity than the materials I used.

[lunar temple]

follow with the camera

[reef delta]

Thanks

[lunar temple]

the quality is not yet high enough to do so. but you will notice it works if you try putting in a few mats of green quality. it will stay blue up to a point

[spark dirge]

I thought that the value might not be high enough too and I used common grem skin and uncommon thread on the crafts to test it, are the odds that bad?

[lunar temple]

its not random. its a set value.

well, proscessing is a bit random, but crafting is not

[spark dirge]

Oh it's a breakpoint and then it's guaranteed?

[lunar temple]

more or less. but we dont know the details stats yet

[spark dirge]

That would make a little more sense

[lunar temple]

ye, the preview you get in crafting is what will result from the materials you put in

[brittle wraith]

if there were not so many noob gatherer storring away all there stuff their were enough mats for the rest

[spark dirge]

Ok follow up, I noticed the lw clothes from vendor have "Leatherworking Quality Rating" while the tanning clothes have "Tanning Rarity Increase Rating". Does the lw quality Rating only increase the stat value of gear PER rarity tier? Or does lw quality Rating give it the chance to hit that breakpoint to increase the rarity quality of the craft

And if you need a "Leatherworking Rarity Increase Rating" where do you get it from I didnt see anything on ashes codes that boosted that stat

[lunar temple]

quality is the breakthrough stat for boosting a finished crafting items quality. Rarity is a percentile chance your proscessed item is a higher grade than what you put in

and also for gathering

[spark dirge]

So how do you increase the roll of the stat on an item you make, I've only made a rare tool with rare quality materials and it was the bottom of the range it showed, I think if you use higher quality materials (say rare legendary legendary) you can get that rolled stat to be higher, but if you use legendary legendary legendary, would it still be the low end of the range for legendary? How can you increase it past that is that a different stat or apart of quality / rarity?

[lunar temple]

of a finished item?

from crafting?

[spark dirge]

Yeah I don't have the game open ATM but I assume that when you craft a weapon or something it has a range of the stats on it like it shows on ashes codex, how do you increase that to get the high end or is it random?

[lunar temple]

Here are the stat ranges from a legendary iron sword. if you make the sword with full legendary items but Zero quality buffs, then you will get the lower end min stats. If you stack high quality gear and buffs while crafting it, then you will get a range of increasing stats till you hit its cap. i have another example.

this is an emerald necklace i made with all blue materials and app jeweler gear that has...116? quality rating total. I also made another with one green emerald. the quality rating kept the item blue, but gave a health bonus of 1 instead

[spark dirge]

So it's "Crafting Quality Rating" stat the increases those stat rolls on the equipment. And "Crafting Quality Rating" also helps you get to that breakpoint to tier up from uncommon to rare

[lunar temple]

the stat range is also a breakpoint, not random

[spark dirge]

Ok so quality of the materials can give a better stat roll (not random) and "crafting quality rating" can also increase that stat roll (not random)

Tyvm for the info 🙂

[lunar temple]

mm, more that the quality of the materials is the baseline rarity of the item and the quality buffs can boost its stats or be enough hit the next tier of rarity. or make up for some lesser materials

Eventually, grand master crafters can theoretically stack enough quality buffs to boost common mats into a green, or maybe even blue result

people will need to dig in the game files to try and find out the exact maths behind it all

[spark dirge]

Yeah I was curious about that because I heard that last phase people were using like rare mats to make legendary gear because it was so overtuned, now it's nerfed and I'm trying to figure out how much of the quality rating and stuff I need to make good gear with not as good mats

[rotund dagger]

I'm struggling to find Zinc or Copper, running around the map only to come home with 2 Zinc.. Anyone have any tips? Maybe one node has more than other?

[split hull]

are there any coal resources nodes in? you need them for coke used in steel, and i havnt seen any

[left parrot]

Also, if you use like half green half white materials for a caravan, you’ll get a better caravan even if it’s still white. You won’t notice it on gear because the numbers are too small but with caravans it’s easy to tell.

[upbeat quartz]

Does anybody know if all the crafting tools (apprentice/journeyman XXX 0-3) are in the game? I can only find recipe #2 on the apprentice vendors, but would like to use a different one

[left parrot]

I’ve only ever been able to locate that one

[split hull]

love how everyone dodges the fact that there is no coal in the game while almost half the t3 crafting relies on it

[lunar temple]

[leaden zinc]

Coal machine in joeve

[spark dirge]

You can get coal in joeva? How so?

[leaden zinc]

Machine behind where the armor smithy. Need lots of oak to start

[spark dirge]

Is this joeva on every server or a specific building?

[leaden zinc]

Crude, forgot about that. Only know lyneth

But I believe the icon says "smithy"

[spark dirge]

Ok I'm on Lyneth too man I'm tempted to hop on and test it ashescodex still has no method of obtaining coal

[leaden zinc]

I haven't tried to make any as I'm still low. But I did open the interface for it

[spark dirge]

Oh if it's the smithy building miraleth has one too

Are you sure that's not charcoal?

[devout crypt]

Same. Trying to bump metalworking to 10. Mining skill is at 22 for reference and I've smeltled nearly every ore I've gotten. Metalworking is at 6 or 7.

[leaden zinc]

If it's the same it's outside the building in the back

[devout crypt]

Sitting on hundreds of tin though

[leaden zinc]

Drools

[spark dirge]

This honestly might be charcoal and not coal, coal on the wiki is supposed to be a journeyman gatherable mining resource

But charcoal uses oak wood

[devout crypt]

Step 1: Basalt
Step 2: Basalt again
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit!

[leaden zinc]

Hmmm...that could be.

Sorry if I got your hopes up

[spark dirge]

Hopes up just to be DESTROYED

[split hull]

back to square 1, no coal in the game shrugs

[gusty oracle]

Any tailors made any decent artisan Cloths yet?

[rigid nova]

Crafted with blue resourses.. it becomes green

So, it's 100% bugged

[split hull]

why did you craft it? it shows you before you craft it which color it come out

make sure you have all the rarity ingredients

[rigid nova]

it shouldn't be green with rare ingredients

so, just was a hope it was a visual bug

[rigid nova]

Epic + Legendary sholdn't be Uncommon and it's not in other crafts, but here.. it is

[worn knot]

Where can I go to learn how to craft?

[split hull]

you had 6 rare bluebell threads?

[rigid nova]

sure

and 3 blue emeralds

[split hull]

im curious as what it showed on the window before you click craft

[rigid nova]

with epic and legendary

[split hull]

ya busted

this shouldnt be happening

thats like 20g worth of mats for a helm you can buy under 1g

[woven stone]

supposedly bis

[tawdry harness]

they need to add where you can turn off helmets, or certains ones like that should show your hair, its so fugly I despise it even though it has great stats

[woven stone]

goblin mask smae issue

[hushed temple]

where do you go to get apprentice certification for hunting?

[woven stone]

depends on server, but youre going to look for the Apprentice Agricultural Building

you can zoom into each node and look for it

[hushed temple]

TY!

[woven stone]

yoooo

np

[iron estuary]

Damn. Thanks for your sacrifice for science!

[round lintel]

is there a good site besides the wiki for information on crafting ?

[woven stone]

ashes codex and wiki

other than that, YT or word of mouth

[rigid nova]

Oh, i saw some ppl selling t1 carcasses(lots of them) for 3s - does anyone know where they are farming them? I mean it's extremly cheap for my opinion in terms silver/hour 😮

[woven stone]

what types of carcasses?

[rigid nova]

grems and wolfs

[woven stone]

spiders: easy spot near halcyon, but lvl 20.
grems: a few spots, but folks like to use south of Lionhold where noobs spawns are and kill them to spawn huntables
Wolves: theres a few spots near ursine caves. good for it

just have to be commited

some things like bears have static spawns

but the grems/raves/wolves can be forced to spawn

[rigid nova]

Otters and raptors too?

[woven stone]

its like ~10% chance on respawn for huntable

otters are a mix, raptors.... are the devil

in the entire map, there s one spot west of Steelbloom with 5 swiftclaw(raptor) spawns. Each spawn is a 30 minute timer, and they are almost 24/7 guarded by guilds

use this map, filter to nothing but nodes and 'hungint creatures', and parooze. It has most spawns, but some arent therehttps://ashescodex.com/map

[gusty oracle]

And are one of the only ingredients needed to craft artisan gear

[lapis valley]

So as i understand you need willow chips to make otter hide, but no one is selling chips.... they need to make it possible to have more then 5 artisan skills +10, otherwise its to hard to get the items you need

[north thistle]

it's more likely that WW is being used elsewhere and chips will come later

[granite quest]

Right now, I would say the reason you don't see chips is because Willow is used in so many recipes that it's spread out a bit too thin. Especially while everyone is trying to get caravans built.

It's similar to copper in T1, and I would imagine something else in T3

[lapis valley]

Ok, guess they need to fix it somehow, the artisan systems seems broken, its so hard to craft, and so easy to grind gear from mobs.

[granite quest]

If right now, we (speculatively) have 4000 people per server on maybe 15% of the world map, we're actually looking at an ok ratio of things. And keeping crafting time locked by mats helps keep Legendaries from being mass produced like in Phase 1.

[lapis valley]

Its still a test, stuff won´t get tested if the system is broken

Just to get the legendary otter hide and chips.... good luck with your mass produced legendaries

Used form lvl 10 to 20, after that the commen gear you easy loot from mobs is way better........

And if some of the numbers you see from xp farm, lvl 10 to 20 is just a walkover

[granite quest]

The difference between crafting vs dropped, and I will use green as dropped, is massive. Not only can you max roll something if you so choose, but with higher rarity comes more stats, and definitely a massive spike in numbers. Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone will be crafting with level 10-20 in mind, but when that 20-50 grind comes on, the crafting will have the chance to catch up.

To be fair, I am using what I consider a very good weapon to exemplify this, but crafting has always been pushed as the endgame. But in regards to the system being broken, they can test other things as well. I think a good point to make is while they do have several internal teams, they won't be testing everything all at once. Balance in crafting vs looting will take a lot of time to figure out, so it's good to give them the time to work it out.

[lapis valley]

The difference is just massive, and you see lvl 25 running around farming low lvl mobs, and other shi that´s hard to understand, somehow they just need to figure out what they want.

[stone karma]

Only if there are enough resources in the world to make the crafted stuff....

[granite quest]

Exactly. Imagine if the desert had one more pack of 5 raptors, and then a more ore/stone-centric resource node system rather than the wood/flower heavy riverlands. Then add in the tropic's resources. It's not perfect right now, and that's ok.

[copper dove]

Recipe: Halcyonite Ring, did someone find this recipe ?

[iron estuary]

How much would you pay for willow chips? It's true most of the willow currently goes on other stuff...

[mint crown]

Share your thoughts on how we can make a better system, with Intrepid, here in this thread. Let me know if you agree or disagree.

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/65236/thoughts-on-artisanship-as-a-whole/p1?new=1

[tall lily]

are lampreys only fished in specific areas? im lvl 30 fishing in a river and only lamprey ive gotten was from a bug at lvl 12

[pearl gust]

Yellow was a terrible font choice.

😅

[copper lynx]

They require journeyman pole, this is a change from phase 1 where you only needed the certificate

[lunar temple]

Can’t go to forums on mobile to post, but higher end processing is hell. Those proscessing tasks that require multiple items? They must all be the same rarity. We need to treat those tasks similarly to crafting where we can toss in items of different quality for convenience sake if nothing else.

Seven have mercy on you if you are doing a multi step proscessing with hard to obtain components and your rarity buff hits in one of the middle steps. Now you have to do it all over again

Slate molds are suffering

[woven stone]

Having 47 common and 3 uncommon because clothes. I mean...I'm grateful, sure, but the hard coded 5/10/25/etc choice for processing is like being punished for a win

[azure vale]

Random Question but how have you all been going about dealing with hiring other players to do crafting/processing work you cannot do yourself?

I have a problem: I need 10 Rare Bronze Ingots and I even collected all the materials required to make them, but I don’t have the requisite Metalworking level. How can I hand those materials over to a player I don’t know/trust and guarantee (or at least minimize the chances) they won’t simply take the resources and run?

Do you think the game should have a system that allows players to contract work like that out to an Artisan in such a way that you can’t get scammed?

Imagine a contract board or something where you put materials in a communal storehouse along with the contract, an artisan comes along, sees the contract, accepts it and provides collateral somehow, and then they get access to the resources so they can use them to craft the item. They can then put the completed item back into the communal storehouse and receive their collateral back + payment for their services. If they don’t complete the crafting by a set time, they lose the collateral and or some new fangled “artisan reputation” points tied to their character.

I would like a system like this, but in a way, I can see how it might be intended for players to be able to be scammed by shifty artisans and the consequences for the artisan for doing so would be a bad reputation. My only issue with that is that the reputation in this example is solely word-of-mouth and knowledge of who is trustworthy and not trustworthy in the community; in other words, there’s no in-game systems to support it. It’s very low-risk/high pay-off for scammers as it is.

[woven stone]

yo, the difference in food rarities is crazy

following this, legendary would be 106/78

[quaint flume]

Anyone else feel like quality in its current state is silly? Are we really going to have something like legendary animal droppings sharing the same quality and text colour as an ancient powerful weapon or something? Who's going to care about a legendary weapon later on when you can get a legendary copper sword at level 10?

[torn fiber]

Yes it's very strong, good news for cooks!

[woven stone]

dont over think the "legendary". Its just a way to mark higher tier gear

they have ideas to fix/limit legendary items later on

[lunar temple]

Guilds. Or directly trade 1-1 the raw mats for the finished mats

[main marlin]

A bit late, but they won't do that and I think it is a good thing. It forces people to work together which is integral for a social sandbox MMO. This is not a theme park, after all

[stone karma]

Yeah, but is it a bit too excessive right now? Here's the breakdown of the mats for a basic apprentice level heavy armour piece.....

[main marlin]

It's not really excessive. It's semi-realistic. You don't go to a metalworker IRL and expect him to also be able to do milling, hunting, stonemasonry and weaving.

[stone karma]

Why do you need woodchips to tan the otter hide? Why do you need bluebell thread to make the mortar? Why do you need wood to create a stone armor mold?

[main marlin]

Wood has traditionally been used to tan hides.

[pearl gust]

It helps stretch and wear the skins

[polar dune]

Tannins in wood? maybe better than also requiring droppings. Maybe bluebell fibres are a good optiong as a binding medium for a single use mold. It looks like you're creating a kind of plaster like concrete so using wood when curing it makes total sense.

[stone karma]

I love how you're trying to apply logic to a fantasy game....

[main marlin]

Have you ever read books? A lot of the way things work are based on real life equivalents

Good fantasy is dictated by logic

[polar dune]

I love it how you're trying to pivot from your attempt to claim that it's unrealistic when you're shown that everything more or less directly is based on real life analogues, to claiming it's a fantasy video game so it shouldn't make sense.

[stone karma]

Fine, you want realism, that's all well and good. I'd take an enjoyable experience over realism every day of the week, and right now the crafting system isn't enjoyable (for me anyway).

[main marlin]

You asked why things are the way they are, we told you why

Now it suddenly is what we want

[stone karma]

?

I questioned whether basic crafting recipes (recipes that you will likely need to make hundreds of times) need to be as complex as they currently are.

[polar dune]

Lol, go play runescape if you want things straightforward and easy.

[stone karma]

Why is "straightforward and easy" bad?

[main marlin]

It's not. But this game won't be that.

[polar dune]

My guy, I never said it was.

[stone karma]

Has Steven said that?

Has he explicitly stated that everything in this game will be hard and complex?

[granite quest]

Yeah, it's just not the vision that the game has in mind. One of the big points in ashes is that it hard forces cooperation and socialization, and the crafting system taking so many parts is part of that in my mind.

[stone karma]

You can incentivise cooperation without making basic recipes excessively complex

[main marlin]

Apprentice crafts aren't basic either.

[granite quest]

It's why somethings take 20 mats from your own craft, but then 1 thing from one craft and one from another craft. It's forcing basic trade. And if you can find a group of crafters, that trade becomes a lot easier

[stone karma]

It's the second tier out of 5....

[lunar temple]

it wouldnt be as bad if we can mix and match material quality in the proscessing steps

[granite quest]

Or have custom amounts, we pray for custom amounts.

[main marlin]

So what? An apprentice has a basic knowledge of the matter they work at, so they are capable of working on more complex topics. If you have absolutely no knowledge, that's what a novice is

[lunar temple]

that at least, is on the list. they have tech debt with the way they coded proscessing stations

[stone karma]

100% - that was one of my key feedback in the feedback thread.

[polar dune]

I love the simplest games available (idle clickers) and the most complex games available (Grand strategy and MMOs) both ends of the spectrum and everything in between are valid. This game has a level of complexity and you don't seem to like it. If you don't enjoy it, why play it, rather than the plethora of options at your preferred level.