alpha-two-archetype-chat

[wide sandal]

Don't know if it's known, but happened to me too in testing. Dodge roll will stop it, maybe weapon swap too.

[naive finch]

okay thanks, will report it. We are both new, so I wasn't sure if i just didn't understand what to do or what.

[bitter cradle]

this happens when you cast salvo and run out of mana before finishing all charges

thought there was a fix for this tho... maybe it was just adressed

[glass onyx]

Might be in the today’s patch, bug is known since a while

[naive finch]

thanks, fixed or not (today) is less important to me than understanding I am not playing wrong.

[sweet wedge]

So mage question if you aren't able to stack multiple weapon enchants anymore, how will arcane circle work given it is stated to give all 3 at once?

[clear adder]

The same way it worked before?

Enchant weapon was never part of arcane circle

[sweet wedge]

Arcane might gives you the ability to stack all 3 elemental empowerments for its duration, enchant weapon used to state that you could give 1 enchantment for up to an hour, or 3 with arcane might from arcane circle for 30 seconds. And it did this by giving the 3 different empowerments for 30 seconds.

[blazing bobcat]

I'v never seen this before, if you could provide a screenshot just to be sure but that sound quite OP

[shut fossil]

https://discord.com/channels/256164085366915072/1373338309337808946 go bump this thread until they respond

[glass onyx]

The change is not about your passive that gives you an enchantment based on ur last skill
Its about the actual Skill "Enchant Weapon" and "Blessed Weapon"
2 different things

Triple element beam is not changed.

[glass onyx]

Its been like this since phase 1 mate

Elemental Empowerments != Enchant Weapon/Blessed Weapon

Its just so a ranger cannot have 12 blessed weapon at the same time, causing to deal 1200 holy dmg a second anymore

[blazing bobcat]

Oh okay thx ! I'm new to mage

[final hound]

Hello 👋 "summoner when?"

[ionic plume]

Enchant weapon is the buff you give to allies. Elemental empowerments is the self buff mages get and is affected by Arcane circle

[maiden hearth]

Summoner when!!

[blazing bobcat]

So if you stack the 3 elements, can you enchant weapon the 3 to an ally ?

[glass onyx]

no.

[clever wyvern]

any rogues getting spotted miles away due to the predator effect

[glad cloak]

Why draw circle if so easy to see

[clever wyvern]

feels pretty blatant in jundark, especially if raining

[crystal vault]

@mighty nimbus I'm playing a Tank and wondering if I'll ever be able to equip 2 melee weapons instead of 1 melee and 1 ranged.
Looking to the future when we have weapon sheathing and other nice-to-haves, I would absolutely love to have a 2H Greatsword and a Sword+Shield equipped at the same time, and the thought of this feels like it fits better into the class fantasy

[glad cloak]

I guess I haven’t played against enough degen rogues yet. All my PvP so far has been medium scale straight up fights and that’s it. Need more practice
I don’t really know how fighting against rogue feels like cause they focus other classes

Rogues seem invisible when further away but I haven’t looked super close

[vale saffron]

The plan has always been 1 melee and 1 ranged, they've never said anything about changing it to 2 ranged or 2 melee

[craggy mauve]

Is it worth it as a cleric to take anything of the offensive talents?

Judgement can be offensive and supportive.

The circle can deal dmg …

[charred seal]

I don't think Clerics are viable solo as aoe, and in a group you are not there for your dps, so I find the dps on the aoe stuff just draws accidental aggro and is a bit useless. I'd rather another single target damage spell, or a CC or a buff, and the aoe damage on the circle removed. Perhaps one less enhancement to mend or soothing glow and a little more aoe heal.

[upbeat plover]

hard disagree. Solo spiders are super easy and you can do shardlings in the dessert, in the areas where they're mixed with scorpions

just gotta be a bit careful not to pull too many of the 1* scorps. Becomes even more free if you duo with literally any class

[upbeat plover]

see above. Tldr the answer to you is yes. Do not spec chains in groups if you have a mage because snare messes up their combos via the shared snare+chill immunity iirc

[wide sandal]

How is ranger later game for mana? I keep reading bad things about sustain but they're from last year mostly, wasn't sure if anything has changed.

[ionic plume]

Run refreshing follow through and your mana will be fine
Most run keen and the complain why their mana is bad in long fights
Mana is bad on most characters when you refuse to take the mana regen talents

[glass onyx]

Also when ur bard screams "SAGA" just autoattack

[ionic plume]

And that

[wide sandal]

tyty, was looking for a talent in the skilltree that would regen mana, must have missed that one

[coarse scroll]

Also blessing regens mana on finishers, just slower than a bard

[covert canopy]

So how exactly do you proc a triple element beam?

[covert canopy]

Nvm its just after enemy has all 3 effects

[craggy grotto]

Drop circle. Cast 1 skill of each element then beam

[spiral grove]

Tank rework confirmed yet?

[modest sluice]

This! I dislike that you have to equip one melee and one range

[sinful bluff]

i feel the melee and range weapon will come into play a bit more with a chunk of classes when secondary are a thing

[glass onyx]

its not about ur enemy

[sinful bluff]

how long till they fix arrowstorm bug i wonder :p

[covert canopy]

Yeah im beaming fine now

[clear adder]

also when they get mroe shit in and get everything into a more balanced and finished state

all the weapons kind of feel the same right now, because they kind of ARE the same

[sinful bluff]

wand the only one that feels unique atm

maybe book i havant seen book ones yet

shortbow arrow storm still broken for example too

[mint terrace]

hopefully they will separate physical damage into 2 different stats for melee and ranged.
right now fighters do the same amount of damage with bows as rangers which is weird.
you SHOULD be able to build fighters with slightly more ranged damage, but it shouldn't be the default

[clear adder]

wand is, or atleast was, effectively a shortbow

and felt the same to the 1h sword

[sinful bluff]

wand u get echo and that other thing where all other weapons just get the same + sign again

still waiting for an arrowstorm fix sadly

[obsidian fable]

I feel like cleric and tank both have more or less been confirmed but idk

At some point they must feel ok with how the kits work and are planning how augments work instead

[spiral grove]

Yeah true I just wish it wouldn't take forever for tank tho

been soo patient

[ionic plume]

Gotta get that summoner out first

[maiden hearth]

Honestly, cleric is fine jut need animation upgrade

[obsidian fable]

Cleric falls into the trap of being both simple and strong which is boring and undeserving of feedback to people who don’t want anything challenging

[glad cloak]

i will say alot of clerics blow their aoe load in 3s, then kind of hop around a while

[flat shuttle]

^this is true.
Knowing other classes burst windows is good cause they can sit quite a bit of damage with hots on them and then spread out cooldowns.

[glad cloak]

all of my abilities are circles, can anyone explain

[glass onyx]

Cleric has way too little skill tree, just as most other classes
you dont need braincells to skill in the talent tree and every cleric is the same with no variety

(just as most classes)

Cant wait for summoner and the Skilltree changes afterwards

[lament agate]

Anyone know how the aoc damage formula works?
Is it similar to how the one for poe is?

[solar talon]

Hi I just joined the alpha! Which are the archetypes with complete trees at the moment?

[mint terrace]

none

max level right now is 25, we can't have complete trees

• it's early alpha so they will continue to go through major changes

[solar talon]

Ah that means no specialization ?

[mint terrace]

nope

if you mean 2nd class by that

they all have talent trees, but it's pretty basic right now

[solar talon]

Yeah

I see.. not a problem ty !

[mint terrace]

we're supposed to get 2ndary classes in early Phase 3

[solar talon]

I'm upgrading my PC just to play it

[mint terrace]

Cleric and Tank for all 8 archetypes

[solar talon]

Can't wait!

[mint terrace]

just keep your expectations in check

hf

[solar talon]

I come from wow private servers

So yeah

And I was one of those who paid 200 usd for return to Camelot

Back in the day

[mint terrace]

yeah it's much better than that

definitely not better than a classic wow private server though

[solar talon]

There we go

Well. With all the corruption and nepotism. Who knows

[mint terrace]

there are very limited number of quests right now, itemization/gear drops/crafting is in the middle of a big rework so stuff is kinda broken right now

[solar talon]

As long as you guys are quietly optimistic that's good. But that's the sentiment i got anyway

[mint terrace]

yeah, I definitely am

the project is progressin really quickly considering that it got soft-reset between 2021 and 2022

[vale saffron]

https://tenor.com/view/ace-attorney-phoenix-wright-objection-capcom-gif-20965907

[mint terrace]

i was waiting for that

[sly kite]

https://tenor.com/view/nuh-uh-manfred-von-karma-gif-7266898351277796847

[green charm]

when ranger buff

[ionic plume]

Everything after summoner.. soooooo

When summoner:o

[green charm]

another stupid op class for them to fawn over for a few months while giving ranger players crumbs

lovely

[tulip grotto]

You will keep being a root bot and you will damn well love it

[cosmic token]

Ranger already had a rework pass…. Dont get your hopes up.

[green charm]

Only class to be reworked into something worse

[sinful bluff]

yeah they got downgraded 😄 i now play my rogue as a ranger instead so much better

[glad cloak]

i've noticed leveling as rogue or any melee class you kind of want to just auto attack with bow and kite all the time. Maybe go in to pop if cds are up

being in melee range of enemy mobs bad for your health

[sinful bluff]

i range in single pull melee in aoe pull in groups

my range dps cause of build is higher than melee attacks

melee just cleavs for aoe though where bow doesnt

i just wish swapping to melee attack would cancel shortbows AA 😛 it a little clunky on trying to sue a skill with last weapon combo on shortbow

[dire coral]

Same short bow poison get close trip hemorrhage sap for life gain make space kite

[sinful bluff]

shhh thats my secret ranger build 😛 lol

[glad cloak]

I feel like using momentum for berserk to reset cds is too strong. It feels like you are funneled into a specific skill order of using berserk with max momentum for CD resets. Is probably my biggest fighter complaint. Can’t really spend momentum for utility like lunge or use a berserk before having all your skills on cd

[solar talon]

Is it worth playing a tank in the alpha?

[soft scarab]

Number one sought role

[soft scarab]

Youll grow out of it when you fight pvp

Smashing your face into pve = generic rotations typically. Facing people who have human brains and dont act like npcs(sometimes) turns it into a dynamic fight. Any person with dodge bound isnt going to let you get your abilities all on cd effectively, they may go on cd but youre probably not getting momentum every time. Unless you land everything. And at that point, no need for beserk except to amplify a few abilities and get a big hit off

[soft scarab]

See above

[charred seal]

If you are a lifelong tank, and intend to play tank in live, then please yes, help make the tank great. As a healer, I love tanks, they help me from going splat. If you are just trying to win the Alpha test, then I would say no.

[maiden hearth]

To be fair, before, rangers would look in your cardinal direction and everything would die.

[green charm]

1 person would die per ranger

Tbh

Unless you reached critical mass of rangers required to 1shot with rain

[sinful bluff]

i would use this time to find the class u wanna play on reset in august for P3 (that test phase sopose 2 last longer without wipes (assuming no major problems arise)

[solar talon]

I am pretty much a raider leader combination main tank, who has lead successful guilds in wow and new world

Duty, integrity, honor.

[final hound]

https://tenor.com/view/for-sauce-hero-gif-22783138

When ? 😄

[zinc sierra]

Never, summoner been cancelled

[ionic plume]

Ight games a bust
Time to bail out boys!

[flat shuttle]

Alright rogue friends, do any of you feel like crit chance is borked?
Sitting at 50% before ambusher passive and I can go 4 backstabs in a row (aside from the ones that dissappear) and not a single crit. Something feels off.

[dire coral]

https://tenor.com/view/toss-coin-flip-gif-26540301

Lots of numbers there not just your raw crit chance. whats the crit avoidance of the mobs? could be 10% making you 40% could be 30% making you 20%

[clever wyvern]

ever played blackjack? statistically you have a 40% chance to win outright

yet its easy to lose 10 in a row

[modest hatch]

PVP? Bear in mind other players have a crit avoidance stat too.

[glad cloak]

Idk if hitting higher level or starred mobs makes you crit less. You deff miss more often

[modest hatch]

Yeah I believe crit and hit rates are both relative to your target

What you're seeing is for a target of your level. Just my assumption tho

[glad cloak]

How long you think for when they do coloring for enemy vs friendly ground effects? I think it’s known but nobody complains about it

[flat shuttle]

Even considering in PvP crit avoidance is seemingly 1:1 with crit chance, I'm feel like unless people are stacking xmcrit avoidance aside from the 5% we get from tree and then agays that I'd crit more often.

I'm not a fan of that interaction and would almost rather just go full on crit power.
Jackpot rogue it up.

[glad cloak]

Only tanks have a guaranteed crit skill. You can pseudo pump your way there with ranger snipe and bullseye ish but still rng

[strong tapir]

Anyone knows how Mitigation works on AoC? Is it applied over damage ignoring armor and magic resist? Is it applied to damage after being calculated from armor and magic resist? Or it's completely different?

[ionic plume]

Armor and magic resist add into your mitigation. Aka. armor stat + physical mitigation stat = over all physical mitigation

[strong tapir]

tyvm so both are important.

[ionic plume]

Err im like 80% sure... Might be wrong 😅 cant double check with server down

Either way the mitigation stat on items seems to be way more impactful at so pieces like the Iron Wing armors are really frikin strong

[strong tapir]

Yea, i'll try getting 4 pieces.

[strong tapir]

https://www.aoc-planner.gg?share=7d985b0423abc248 That's what i'm thinking

[languid dragon]

Does evasion work in a similar way ? Im trying to figure out which defensive stat i want to build into as a rogue , mit or evasion 🤔

[coarse scroll]

🎶 Gotta get those procs, get those procs, get those procs 🎶

[strong tapir]

Evasion is different. If you evade you don't need mitigation. I didn't find enough evasion gear tho.

[soft scarab]

Steelbloom accessories^

[languid dragon]

I think i can get to like 40% without giving up to muxh phy power...wether that's worth it or not i dont know 🤷

[strong tapir]

well I don't think it's worth it for rogues.

People tend to think every class should be performing the same functions at the same time on PvP.

[ionic plume]

Rogue has lots of built in evasion and accuracy debuffs for the enemies so probably vetter to get mit instead

[strong tapir]

Rogues don't need to be durable, they need to be glass canon IMO.

Your team is about to engage the enemy team, you get invis. Start going around the enemy team while your team is engaging. When they hard engage then you have some options, most obvious and common one would be you jump on their healer and explode it.

Or you could just wait for people running away and finish them off.

Or you could be invis and peeling your own healers by picking off any other DPS that tried to engage on it

Or you could even be on a party of 5 rogues that coordinate to fuck people at the same time.

None of it involves being durable neither putting yourself where you might be focused.

[languid dragon]

Yea I feel that . Maybe better to just dump everything into full damage

[strong tapir]

That's rogue for me.

That's also the same bullshit for fighters. People say fighters are bad cause they get exploded as soon as they land.

That's mostly cause fighters want to build full critical and power and no defensive stats, which is a huge mistake as someone that will get focused. Also cause fighters usually want to engage first, which is not possible with the current kit we have.

Fighters are amazing follow up with AoE tripping from cataclysm after a vine or freeze, also constantly ST tripping with Wallop, and constantlu debuffing with Battle Cry + Wounded.

But for that you definitely don't want to be the first one to leap into battle.

[languid dragon]

Yea right now I'm sitting at 200phy power 190 crit power 27 crit chance. Once I get those bloomthorn daggers that crit chance will be closer to 50 . An still alot of other upgrades to get. Should roughly be like 220+ phy power 50% crit and 190+ crit power.

[strong tapir]

For rogue right?

If you're going that DPS focused as a fighter you might be crazy.

[languid dragon]

Yea rogue lolo

[charred seal]

PVP is definitely going to favor a coordinated group that respects the trinity. And character collision makes a difference, as do some of the more unique tank/support skills. Group PvP in this game takes a little getting used to and teamwork is more significant. Get in a choke point and numbers are nowhere near as important as they are in other games. Get cut off from your team and you are toast. As a healer I love it, Im sick of telling people to peel.

[final hound]

if we will constantly cry for ballance main classes in pvp we never get subclasess this way ...

[glad cloak]

top right talent still doesn't work on book. But resonnance gets consumed with deadly finisher reliably now

[glad cloak]

im also getting essence harvest procs when i am not specced it anymore, still some weird stuff going on

[elfin coyote]

whats the point of getting subclasses if particular main classes are fucked

[final hound]

Dont see "ballance" problem in pve 😉

[elfin coyote]

real

[elder swift]

Why is it that the Bard is replacing the Cleric for just about everything with the exception of Resurrection? They even replenish mana which the Cleric can't do so what is the use case for a Cleric aside from rezzes?

[flat shuttle]

5k heals that aren't gambit.
Idk

[elder swift]

If yer talking about the big dick heal that takes 3.3sec to cast and is on a cool-down timer... the Bard can heal ALMOST as much very quickly. The Cleric is sorely underpowered. And don't even get me started on the damage out of a Cleric compared to a Bard. Night and Day difference. The Bard comes out on top in every way except for Rezzing.

[tired forge]

Most games you see that feature a bard always make them end up on top. I think cleric needs more heals not just ones with cooldowns but something to heal with not stand there waiting for something to finish CD

[harsh crystal]

Cleric...Judgement + Smite = 💀

[solar talon]

Does anyone have a starter tank guide in terms of talents and what to spec in?

[harsh crystal]

I'm going Dunrir tank + tank = warden, no hybrid class.

[glad cloak]

Anyone who missed stream - summoner hopefully at p3 start, but may be a bit afterwards. They will also do their normal showcase gameplay. They talked about the role, theme, and that summoner will be able to flex into damage, support, or tank roles. Just not as good as those specific dedicated classes

[elfin coyote]

Did they do a shadow buff on battlecry or something feels like it's giving way more momentum

[ionic plume]

Changes based on how many allies you have near you and how many enemies are near you

So your probably more densely packed the you're use to

[versed viper]

We have Deliverance and it’s quite good as a spammable

[ionic plume]

Sssshhhh. Lots of clerics in the game are scared of realizing that spell is a good filler heal (or good emergency heal when used with the insta cast divine power buff)

[long gull]

where do you grind for rogue gear? im lv 12 and can never get in a group for power leveling @ highwaymen either

[maiden hearth]

I’m fairly geared as a bard and whilst I acknowledge I can probably solo heal parties like forge or steelbloom, I’ll never measure up to an actual cleric in PvP, or even PvE for that matter.

[shy summit]

Cleric is fine, just give us another cc break. Give chains a second spec that allows it to be a single target cast

[charred seal]

We will get them in more than one secondary archetype. It is a case of whether we need another in the base class, or is it something we can use to differentiate/trade off in the Cleric sub-classes?

[elfin coyote]

Nah in regularly with a group feels like it's giving more than yesterday

[orchid frost]

Did divine flare get nerfed and it not make it in to the notes?

it's only working at 500%, not 1000%

[orchid frost]

This is crazy... it will go from 500% to 1000% depending on where you're standing. most of the time its going 500%, but if you stand in some special areas in a dungeon, it just magically goes back to 1000%

[ionic plume]

ui bug? none of the talents change the %
or maybe it changing the % based on how many people are in the circle? @orchid frost

[orchid frost]

First one 1000% with crit bonus, second one 500%, no bonus.

all based on position... completely repeatable.. I'm going to make a better demo of it showing actually multiple bugs and stick it in the bug channel.

[ionic plume]

Huh weird

Whats your power at now?

[orchid frost]

don't remember stuff like that... I'll be showing entire stats in one that I record this evening.

[ionic plume]

You seem semi geared at least.. that first one that was a crit should be the amount of none crit heal

[orchid frost]

if I'm wearing full decent gear, that crit should be twice as much

[glad cloak]

Exclamation means first one was a crit?

[ionic plume]

If your second heal was at 500% then your around 140ish power.. so with %1000 ratio you should be at 1400ish none crit

Hmm interesting bug

Does it happen at other locations?

[orchid frost]

last night it was 500% most everywhere I tried.. entire inside of Aith, in entire cork... it only went back to 1000% after I got so far in to that underground area

[orchid frost]

I found a good enough clip to make the case... its in bug thread.

[languid dragon]

Does anyone have any information regarding pvp and how to be building , i know the basics of power and what not and crit... that being said there are some guilds in pvp that are extremely extremely strong in a 1v1 setting. I dont have crap gear at all. My phy power is 200 crit chance is 40 ans crit power is 190... and I hit some of these other players like a wet noodle lol. Is there a point at which we dont need anymore power rating and people start building into mitigation and evasion stats? If anyone has any guidance at all please DM me. I play this game to pvp only and right now I'm feeling like I'm missing something as far as how I'm building up my character 🙏

[upbeat plover]

what class are you? j/w

tank dps very different from rogue dps and such

[languid dragon]

Yea , I'm rogue and have fought a decent amount . But some players are on a other level . Im not counting tanks in this btw . I've come across some fighters and rangers that seem unkillable.. barely can so damage an such... where most fighters and rangers I fight as a rogue get deletd fairly easily b.c how broken rogue is at times ya know... and I'm seeing that its usually the really big sweaty pvp guilds that have these types of players which makes me think that theres something I'm missing as to how to actually build ur character

[languid dragon]

It's def skil diff also ( not saying its not lol ) but its also something else too . Like gear or people building differently. Or atleast that's what it seems like anyway

Still trying to figure the game out .. I'm only a few weeks in lol

[languid dragon]

I wanna be building health , not something like mitigation or evasion ?

[ionic plume]

Can do both... Lots of the best max health items dont share slots with the mitigation items

Iron Wing set is REALLY strong for mitigation

[ionic plume]

You can use aoc-planner.gg to plan out builds and get ideas on what you want... Theres some decent community builds you study to learn how what you should be working for

[stone mango]

Been trying out tank for the first time recently. Is it me or are they SUPER squishy for a class named Tank?

[spice flint]

at low levels tank is rough, in solo

[languid dragon]

Does anyone know if that shortbow of briarhome health regen passive is good ? Does it only work when ur using the shortbow?

[glad cloak]

Health regen is 250 for 1 hps. Stats work all the time, only combo trees need the weapon out. Health regen is a very bad stat that should not exist

[errant thicket]

Nah, they need to tune it so it’s possible to make a regen build

[uneven burrow]

Meteor or Leapstrike? 😄

[glad cloak]

You do not want a regen meta

Imo

[wanton creek]

Any other fighters out there finding that your aoe abilities are hitting non-flagged players when you flag up? I have the pvp options set to not target noncombatants with aoe, yet my abilites will hit a non-flagged player if i'm fighting a flagged player in close proximity with pvp force flag on...

[glad cloak]

Couple of skills doing that, don’t even need to force flag and apocalypse will hit people as bard randomly

[languid dragon]

Where do we get enchantment scrolls ?

[ionic plume]

Have to make them using scribing

[languid dragon]

Ahh how much u gotta level scribing to do it ? I wanna enchant my artisan shirt 😁

[languid dragon]

U can't buy them from other players?

[ionic plume]

Yes but dont think anyone is making them right now. The material cost is ridiculously high

[languid dragon]

Ahh got ya

[swift bramble]

What gear weight should I be aiming for as a fighter? Medium or heavy? Especially for the starting surplus gear or town gear?

[sinful bluff]

kinda depend on set bonus and what gear u can get with phsyical stats light armor also an option

most player dmg atm is magic dmg most mob dmg is physical, light armor typical hasd MR and metal physical, medium in the middle

[strong tapir]

for surplus i think heavy for armor?

But in general you will want a mix of heavy and medium for armor/magic resist

also iron wing medium gear has a lot of mitigation you want

[clever wyvern]

5 piece medium for stam regen is very nice

[swift bramble]

Thank you

[rich wolf]

Me just waiting for cleric and tank to be outclassed by summoner in every way

[blazing bobcat]

Is the Iron Wing set only 4 pieces ?

[strong tapir]

yea

[blazing bobcat]

And you mix it with what gear ?

[dusky forge]

Power gear

You may not want all 4 pieces either

[clever wyvern]

cape is trash

[ionic plume]

Im betting summoner will lack on the ability to mass aoe tank (at least untill they can subclass)

[maiden hearth]

Summoner is warlock with healing is how I’m seeing it.

Open world tanking? Viable
POI forge etc.? Unless you got a healer, you’re toast

[ionic plume]

Yeah. Probably can tank 1/2 mobs decently but doubt 6/7 like my tank can 😂

[maiden hearth]

Or FFXIV old summoner, back in 3.0 if anyone’s that old

Give me back my chicken nugget

[ionic plume]

The summoner/tank combo is Brood Warden... Hoping I get spider summons 😂

[maiden hearth]

was what I was thinking

I also wonder if Necromancers will actually have undead summons, granted that they said that secondary archetype won’t affect primary archetypes by that much

[ionic plume]

They'd be insane to NOT give them undead summons o.o

[river eagle]

I hope they will make it so that the mixes are actually That Much affected, otherwise we will be basically playing starter classes with a micro flavor. But then again, it would be a pain to try to balance all the combos.

In Lineage 2 ascended classes felt very different from what you started with. Shadowbane even went further with the mixes and each class combo had exclusive spells, abilities and passives. None of the mmos so far recreated the complexity of Shadowbane, which is sad.

[glad cloak]

Have they categorized weapon specialties for melee? Swords for bleed, maces for cc, axes for armor pen / direct? (Making up examples

Also whenever they add like axe or spear - first month they should only have it drop from world bosses

[spice flint]

I completely forgot about spears, 2h axes, 2h maces

[languid bronze]

They should just let us straight up pick a few skills from the other archetype we mix with in addition to changes to existing skills

[versed viper]

how to create a broken class 101 and how to screw up party dynamics

[full nebula]

Does anybody have advice for AOE farming as a solo rogue? I have my single target abilities really dialed in but AOE is obviously a weakness of the class and I'm wondering just how weak it really is.

Trounce isn't very good because it's only one attack not the full combo. And caltrops doesn't seem like very much damage it's more utility but admittedly I haven't tested it very heavily. Is the aoe really just poison->throw->lacerate->auto attack?

Not complaining that the aoe is bad because obviously we need to be weak SOMEWHERE just wondering how to maximize what little we do have

[upbeat plover]

my opinion:
based on your description, trounce is a LOT better at aoe farming than you think it is (minimum for spiders and shardlings, probably works with some others depending on level). we have a lot of ways to regain advantage quickly given proper setup. also, since you're AOE farming you can guarantee you begin with 2 stacks of advantage.

you can gain advantage stacks with: sap, feint->aa or acrobatic (typically just take one of these), thrash 3rd hit, smoke bomb->stealth
poison: use draining for consistent buildup for sap. withering can be okay with feint
toolbelt: expanded for the extra smoke, throw, poison
why feint > trounce: shorter animation means less time for mobs to hit you, gives you evasion (think of this as 20% less damage for 7 seconds), and you're going to autoattack for poison applications AND extra flurry charge

feel free to ask questions, i didn't want to write too much of an essay lol

[full nebula]

I didn't really think about it but I guess you can use trounce a lot more than I assumed.

In single target flurry and thrash lives in my head as a single ability that you cast 6 times to dump a ton of damage and get a stack of advantage. But I suppose I could do

And that would make trounce way more useful. Thoughts?

When single target I spam backstab with ruthless by getting advantage every other attack so I knew there was a lot of ways to regain advantage I just didn't consider that thrash doesn't HAVE to be spammed with flurry

[upbeat plover]

can hemorrhage stack

like have multiple applications at once

i assumed it can but never tested

[full nebula]

I don't think it does I think it just refrrshes the duration but 150% damage from lacerate is worth using double strike and you also care more about using a stack of advantage to give trounce. Kick is pretty useless in the rotation since it's weaker than an auto attack but you just want it to consume an advantage stack

Also looking back at that rotation you'll only have 9 stacks of poison by the time I say to use sap so you'd need to weave in a quick auto attack before that

[upbeat plover]

i might have to change what i've been doing to be more optimal if that's how it works. i'll see on thursday i guess

due to random evasion and mob pathing you probably need to assume to do a finisher cycle in there anyway

but it's reactable based on the icon in your hotbar

[full nebula]

Yeah you could do throw->Auto attacks until finisher and then start the thrash combo

[upbeat plover]

you want the aa to be later so your skills get put on cd earlier

i have it all written down somewhere but i have a few docs so i dont remember which is optimal 🤷 iirc something similar to what you have was the best but you have tight timings fitting multiple skills in before thrash goes on cd without completing it

[full nebula]

Yeah when I get off work and can be at a computer instead of on my phone I'll have to look up all the cooldowns and cast times

[solar talon]

Tanks seem really fun to play when combined with a healer pair

Its a nice mix of wow + New world combat systems

[sinful bluff]

u can build them crit dmg too and demolish people:P

[solar talon]

I'm sure

[sinful bluff]

they have a 100% crit chance thing

[solar talon]

My only concern for this game is gear seems like an afterthought, at least at lvl 10

I was told u can lvl to 25 without bothering about gear, which is a massive problem because pixels is what drives people to play in MMOs

[solar talon]

JUICY

[ionic plume]

You can but to say its an afterthought is FAR FAR FAR from the truth.

[solar talon]

It might be but I lvlrd to 10 with no upgrade in gear and it felt fine. It needs to be integrated way more else it's a problem

An MMO loses its allure when people don't get that little bit of endorphin for every small upgrade and such.

I thoroughly enjoyed the combat system and I get it's an alpha but more integration needs to happen.

[ionic plume]

Getting to 25 with just your start gear solo will be a struggle and a very slow process. You CAN level go without gear but it is it recommended? No.. the issue is people are being forced to level with no upgrades because drops are slow and crafting is just about pointless right now.
It was so bad and gear is so important that they had to do temporary nerfs to all mobs untill they get gearing figured out

[solar talon]

Like I said, it feels like an afterthought not that it is. And I hope it's fixed soon.

[ionic plume]

Is phase 2.5 your first time playing?

[solar talon]

Yes

[ionic plume]

You joined at a really bad time then 😅

[solar talon]

But I'm an experienced wow and new world player

Amongst the 30 other MMOs I have played on my lifetime

[ionic plume]

Phase 2 was drastically different with gearing and phase 3 will be also.. 2.5 is just a shit show that you should take with a grain of salt

Lots of bugs have fucked with the gearing process

Your lack of gear and meaningful upgrades is not intended

[solar talon]

Ok that's fine, I hope they have an integration and no more standin systems and the actual systems so people can test

A design document and roadmap would be ideal.

And also a quick starter guide for newbies

[ionic plume]

There are.. ashescodex has lots of guides and the wiki for ashes has just about everything you could want to read about for their plans/ideas/changes/goals/roadmaps

[solar talon]

Where are they found?

That's good to know.

I didn't even know about ashecodex and on quick glance the wiki seemed incomplete

[ionic plume]

Also if you just google ashes of creation roadmap.. youd find it first link to their website... Wiki pages are fan made just like in every game

[solar talon]

But that's what I mean. In this discord a simple thread or pin for newbies would go a long way

[ionic plume]

Simple google searches like "ashes of creation roadmap" if you want to see a roadmap is probably easier then trying to add everything in discord

And they do development live streams where you get updates and insights...

Pretty sure icy veins is slowly working on guides also

[solar talon]

Can anyone advise the difference in weapons between a mace and a sword for a Tank?

[ionic plume]

Maces are slower and provide more physical power and better Debuffs. Sword faster, less power, and bleeds

Maces seems to have better secondary stats also. Multiple maces with almost 1k or more extra health

Maces better... More debuffs = less damage taken, more power = more threat/damage, more heath = less floor taste testing

[solar talon]

Thank you very much. Are there other weapon choices we can pick if we are tanking with a shield?

[ionic plume]

Only swords and maces atm. Spears (1h) and axes (1h) are planned in the future

[solar talon]

Using surplus for mace seems like the play then? Thank you very much.

What about 2hand weapons any point in using dual daggers or greatswords or any other weapon I missed out ?

[ionic plume]

Until you get your hands on an Iron or steel shield greatswords will provide the most damage.
A good mace with an iron or steal shield provides more stats then pretty much any 2hander atm.. some people experiment with the daggers for evasion builds.. theres a 2hndr that gives decent evasion at 20 also

[spice flint]

2h weapons aren't too bad as a tank, just missing the extra stats. imo mace + shield with long bow is the best overall. There's definitely something to say for 2h swords, they have more phy power. But it's hard to compete with mace+shield giving max hp and phy power on the shield.

[solar talon]

I'm lvl 9 and totally new. Should I be using a greatsword or macr and shield combo if I only have access to surplus gear

[ionic plume]

Id personally use a greatsword because I don't find my self blocking as much I probably should 😅 so much damage the better

[solar talon]

I'm very used to dodging and blocking

I used to do m10 mutations in new world

[ionic plume]

But if you hit 20 iron shield and steel shield both provide a shit load of physical power also. So either of those 2 combine with one of the mac health maces is bis atm

[spice flint]

I bought the sanctus long bow personally, it's like 500 phy power, if ur using the starting longbow it's a big upgrade At level 10. The mace is good, and shield are relatively cheap on the market compared to long bows

[solar talon]

What is cheap or expensive I have 10s to my name

I'm just muddling my way through not knowing what's happening

[spice flint]

There is a quest to get a shield aswell. Let me see if I can find it

[solar talon]

And praying I don't get a memory leak mid fight

[ionic plume]

If you have a friend you can make a second 2nd toon so you can get all the weapons you want on pne toon at all the armor you want on another and just trade it over

[solar talon]

Will you be my friend

Haha!

[solar talon]

That looks great where do I get it

[spice flint]

These two items you can get from quests

[solar talon]

Any tips would be appreciated!

[solar talon]

Is there a resource I can find the quest? I just check wiki it showed the shield but not the quest that gives it

[spice flint]

I'm ngl it's so complicated with these quests not working correctly or accidentally locking ur self out of them.

I can give you my shatter fist, I don't use it

[solar talon]

Does mail work or do I have to meet u in person?

I would appreciate it of course!

[spice flint]

I'll message you

[jaunty goblet]

What do you guys think is the best class for solo?

[maiden hearth]

Bard

[sinful bluff]

bard or rogue

[umbral seal]

bard

you need abit more brain power for rogue

[ionic plume]

Fighter can solo just about anything else with some thinking

[umbral seal]

only at like level 11 tho.. problem is people give up before hitting that level

[maiden hearth]

Fighter is a better solo class after getting geared. Bards can solo since level 3

[umbral seal]

yea and they start flying everywhere at mount speed like level 2 or 3 as well right? crazy tbh.

[maiden hearth]

You get flourish at level 3, then you can bunny hop your way to victory

[violet lantern]

Hey guys, is it me or stacking mitigation isn t worth it

I have 2 build, one with 50% mit phys and magic and 4k8 hp

Other one with 28% mitig but 7k hp

In “pvp” it still look better for me stacking hp than mitig, what s your opinion about that ?

(I tried both of them in different pvp situation)

(Fighter class)

[green charm]

Simple maths mate

[zinc sierra]

it's all about balance ig idk about fighter but i would say you want 30-35% mit and 5.5 to 6k hp

[empty geyser]

is rogue's death mark currently bugged?

its very rare for me to heal from it

mob dies in like 10sec after application

so aint no way its dropping off when its a 1min debuff

[umbral seal]

It's been bugged since rogue launch. sometimes it heals, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it even kills you. I've 1 shotted myself with that shit a number of times before abandoning it completely.

Not worth it.

[empty geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/smile-happy-umm-frog-peepo-gif-26307842

ye ive been trying to do big elite pulls with it and then the mob i had marked dies and no heals happens and im just sitting there like this

[umbral seal]

Just use sap. You don't need anything else tbh.

[plucky ridge]

checking in, did the tank get any changes?

[glad cloak]

Depends on how long ago you are checking in from

[white prism]

I'm looking Bard master for to ask advanced questions! I really need help.

[royal token]

https://tenor.com/view/energizer-bunny-stillgoing-gif-15647619426124457646

[white prism]

I checked PVE + PVP bard builds at ashescodex. How can i explain.. Is there any way to make build PVX. I wanna be DPS also supporter and game changer. Rosethorn looks like good but when i check PVE greatsword looks great. Which way should i follow?

I have full rosarium set with full power rating (physical + magic)
Then it made my sword and magic damage good. But for end game I really don't have idea what should I do. Rosethorn set really looks great but im scaring to spend my gold.

[shrewd lodge]

you shouldnt be focusing on phys as a bard - all magic

[cosmic field]

do we have any information yet on design intention behind secondary archetypes outside of "your secondary archetype will augment your skills"? for example, will it be realistic for a ranger/tank to tank? or will tanking be relegated to basically tank and maybe summoner?

or for another example, will oracle (cleric/mage) be a viable option for caster dps? or is it a series of minor alterations that don't really impact identity of the primary archetype, such as "your mend now applies shocked to enemies within 5m of the target"?

[craggy grotto]

Ur guess is as good as anyone’s

[ionic plume]

You have zero physical power scaling on a bard... You shouldn't be wearing any physical power gear over other pieces

[white prism]

But my great sword auto attacks are physical?

[ionic plume]

Are you using a greatsword with magical power on it?

[brave cosmos]

Spell greatsword I would hope

[white prism]

Yes it's spell greatsword

[ionic plume]

If you are using a weapon with magical power like Spellbow or spell swords it scales off of magical power even though the tooltip shows it scales off physical

[white prism]

I really wasn't know that. It's great information

How you're be sure about that

but im doing physical attack

on animation

[brave cosmos]

It’s a magical weapon, you want magical power. The animation might look physical but it’s magical.

[ionic plume]

Because its a magical weapon and the tooltip is bugged

[white prism]

Thank you guys. I love you.

What happening if mounts going level 19?

[teal fjord]

im a mage should i switch to a long spell bow over my wand or keep using the wand even tho the stats are worse?

[cosmic field]

more magic power I think is all you care about

[solar talon]

Can clerics wear heavy armor?

[ionic plume]

Anyone can wear any armor

All three types of armor have pieces for all play styles (physical/magical/defense)

[solar talon]

Ah i see, thats the new world style

thank you.

[ionic plume]

Ehh kinda of... New world has buffs and penalties tied to what weight class you are

Ashes doesn't

Light = magical resistance gear
Medium = armor/magical resistance
Heavy= armor

And they have their associated bonuses for 3/5/8

But theres no penalties

So lots of people mix a 5set and 3 set bonus IE my tank is 5 medium/3 heavy atm

[warm hemlock]

its more ESO style tbh

pretty much 1:1

[ionic plume]

Have to make sure you dont get stubborn and lock your self only into one armor type.. otherwise you end up like the tanks that are all happy in there 100% only heavy gear... And then get 3 shot by casters 😂

[plucky ridge]

like 2 months ago

[craggy grotto]

Except esos armor passives actually meant something

[warm hemlock]

Big true

[charred seal]

Again work in progress guys - They probably have another pass or 3 on gear, particularly end-game gear.

[full wigeon]

I would imagine multiple passes ... Like 3 or 4 -9 by the time beta hits... how ever many it takes to feel right before "gp live"

[stone mango]

is there a crit cap?

[exotic raptor]

Only dr as far as I've seen

[zealous hatch]

1. Change Stealth: Stealth becomes a 1 second cast when performing the action in while in a state of combat. Hit struck with a damage ability during this cast stealth is broken and put on CD.

2. Nerf Backstab: Backstab can only be performed when in stealth. Unless the rogue has 2 advantage. Backstab consumes 1 advantage when done out of stealth. Backstab scaling is increased to 200%

3. Nerf CDs: Shadow Step is now 30 second CD. Stealth is now 20 second CD

4. Nerf Acrobatic Strike: Acrobatic Strike only stops player rotation if it consumes 1 advantage. Acrobatic Strike is now a 30 second CD instead of 20.

5. Nerf Thump: Thump now functions like a kick. If you catch the player in a cast or channel with thump only THEN it blanket silences for 4 seconds. Thump CD is lowered if it consumes an advantage

rogue nerf

do it

[modest sluice]

The only thing I agree with is number 2. I get rogues are strong in small scale but they are useless in large scale.
Do you have the same blanket nerfs to mage, bard, and cleric?

[zealous hatch]

mage nerf? cleric nerf? KEKW

everyone this guy said nerf Mages LMAoooooooo

[modest sluice]

You must be a mage main that got beat 1v1 by a rogue. The nerfs wouldn’t upset me if they made them better in large scale.

[maiden hearth]

Did you just call Glowies the bard enthusiast a mage main

[umbral seal]

yea, lets nerf class the only class with ability delay tied to auto attacks. lets also nerf buggy class where poison stacks and sap randomly disappears on use when using dash/dodge in certain situations.

all this coming from bard 1 shot wand user. 😂

[zealous hatch]

i mean thats a bug. but the stealth change was a ptr change that they went back on

[umbral seal]

i think maybe what you want nerfed is smoke bomb that instantly allows a restealth regardless of bodies. right? dashing out into the distance to restealth is a whole other thing compared to that.

[zealous hatch]

nah they can keep vanish

stealthing for free while people are hitting you is dumb

also sap is currently broken and doing too much dmg

rogue was getting 500 ticks of sap on me without crits

[umbral seal]

yea, idk can't say much about this right now with the health stacking meta. some people have ridiculous amounts of health right now without crafting stuff.

7k hp on a rogue, probably more now. Health stacking without DR is ridiculous.

How much hp does a health stacked tank have??

[tight portal]

10k if you go for nothing but HP

[covert canopy]

Is there any place i can look for what gear i should put on mage/rogue etc?

[clever wyvern]

Rogues are fine and 1v20 escapes are not an issue

[modest sluice]

Dude they need this to be able to survive in any kind of large scale. The thing they should be able to do is dive in, disrupt/ maybe kill one person and get out. Otherwise they just stand with the rest of the range and poke with bow. Fighters and tanks honestly need the same type of thing that allows them to get in the middle of 20-40 people and not instantly die.

I just don’t get how people don’t realize this. You really want this to be range exclusive game? You need abilities like this or the game turns into who brings more range.

[umbral seal]

7k hp, buffs, cloak, smokebomb, stealth.. not exactly the type of situational survivability you're talking about i think.

[modest sluice]

? So in that situation you don’t think he should ever be able to get away?

[umbral seal]

Yup nope. dash/dodge negates a ton of shit in this game which is in itself laughable.

[modest sluice]

What should a melees gameplay be in large scale then? Go in maybe get one kill and die? And repeat the process? That’s so freaking lame….

[umbral seal]

1 guy getting shot by a raid is completely different than what you actually want. lmao

anyways

[modest sluice]

What do I want then? For melee to have a place in large scale? Otherwise you stand watching range dps play the game while you look dumb. It makes no sense. You need melee character to be able to survive these encounters. I’m not saying that they do it by default but by using cooldown correctly and playing well you should be able to do this.

[clever wyvern]

In this case I should have died - dunno what polar was doing

Didn't kill or apply pressure, just delayed capture / distraction

Don't see that as too imbalanced of an outcome by itself.

But same survivability applied to 1v4-10 and it gets real frustrating facing a rogue. 2 rogues can actually wipe whole groups via picks if disorganized.

[modest sluice]

I couldn’t agree more but how do you fix this? It will be extremely hard to balance for large and small scale content. Maybe you increase the evasion the more people target you? I don’t really have the answers though.

[unkempt badger]

https://discord.com/channels/256164085366915072/1382073100295995613

If you play fighter/have any thoughts on the topic, please add on to this

[flat shuttle]

curious how many people didn't go for a silence on him?
afaik, and from the clip, he has no advantage stacks, he just used shadowstep, a silence would've secured the kill maybe?

he popped umbral and smoke, so he's got a ton of evasion rolling. idk

[exotic raptor]

Here the secret, you dont nerf a class because a bunch of people dont understand builds just saying

Everyone is still in the "big damage number good" stage of gearing I guess

Plus yeah he should have 100% died there, should have been cc'd after the pull and blown up instead of letting him do whatever he wanted

[maiden hearth]

Either make all classes made by Bucky or have none of the classes made by Bucky.

Bucky is the problem

[vale saffron]

He's also the solution Praise Bucky

[sinful bluff]

1: unless they build alot of HP pretty much a single dot will do enough dmg to break the stealth, also some classes u cant even reay restealth agaist like ranger all they need 2 do is hold one scatter shot for when they stealth

2. yeah thats probaly fine tbh putting an internal cooldown on ruthless would probaly be better

3. 20seconds is find all CC breaks on all classes seem to be 20 seconds

4. It already got restriction on the skill to get stop player rotation effect not to mention its one of the only skills that generate advantaged if conditions are met outside of stealth

[sinful bluff]

ive seen 12k

[tight portal]

where the fuck have you seen 12k without buffs

[sinful bluff]

it either that or your entire raid runs into melee range when u send your melee's, or u shoot with a bow

[sinful bluff]

somone posted screen shot in here asking how much HP you can get and somone posted back with 12k screen shot, was at the end of phase 2 though after stat changes so they probaly had better quality gear than we have in 2.5

[tight portal]

ah

with just green JM gear and no enchants getting just past 10k is pretty much the highest I've seen so far

last phase I know a lot of tanks has some gear thats just currently uncraftable

[zealous hatch]

Most cc break are 30 seconds not 20 and they get two. So

[sinful bluff]

1 long cooldown and requires advantage, shadow step also used often for engagment and not just for breaking CC

i will say one thing rogues probaly have a little to much CC

see what they do with the new skill system though with the ranks and passives, hopefully u can specilise in dmg or CC but not realy both

[zealous hatch]

They got advantage easily so that's not really a good point. And they don't need to use shadow step to engage. You are bad if you are doing that

[sinful bluff]

i play a shortbow rogue (It my rager that actualy feels like a ranger) so i dont have the typicaly experience as othe rrogues but i can tell you a rogue always has to shadowstep at somepoint to stay engaged. But i can see how they woudlnt agaist other classes that have less mobility. I do tend to use my shadow step agressively to get into melee alot of the time from ranged to pop melee cooldowns before going back to range

[umbral seal]

I hate how every class i play, I'm ultimately playing a ranger or a mage but it's the game we're getting....doubt it'll change. You got flanker asking for class identity by giving rangers 5m additional range for auto attacks but i mean how do you really give anything actual class identity when like i said.....everything plays like a ranger or a mage. It's literally bow or wand/book. 😐

Inb4 "just use melee" comeback. Go fight an elite bear with range and then without range... night and day. Same with anything else.

[floral socket]

Don’t help that they force all archetype to play with 1x ranged weapon. I know Throne n Liberty had a lot wrong with it but at least they gave melee classes a viable option to gap close in, hit a burst combo and teleport back to safety.

Pigeon holing everyone to use either a bow, book, wand is not good game design in my opinion. It makes every playstyle feel extremely cookie cutter.

[modest sluice]

I think they should make it where every class doesn’t have to use a range secondary if not make it where only certain classes can use range at all. I think it’s dumb to make everyone use the same setup if you want any kind of class identity.

[sinful bluff]

rogue with a bow has more ranger class idenity than the ranger hahaha :p

[languid bronze]

Fun fact, there are no non-elite bears. Because bears are fkn scary.

[upbeat plover]

if bears didnt do the thing where they stand and just watch you they would haunt my dreams

[clever wyvern]

Running into 2 star kaelar grizzly while leveling

[violet shoal]

Bard mains in the chat, are many of you fans of Counterpoint talent (double melody). ive always used crescendo but considering swapping to counterpoint to maximise Song mastery: Harmony (serenade + hymn both gain 30% effectiveness). Thoughts?

[clever wyvern]

Counterpoint is very strong in many scenarios, especially in pvp where bards are getting cced all the time, disabling songs

[violet shoal]

ive mostly been focusing on PVE so dont have enough bard pvp experience as of yet

[zealous hatch]

Repost. Where's my hybrid combat intrepid

[maiden hearth]

Did you ever get any sort of feedback regarding your bard ideas

[zealous hatch]

Yeah they showed it to Bucky. Thought it was pretty good

[maiden hearth]

Big pog

[zealous hatch]

I like how rogues and other classes were never supposed to get free hard CC from tab target

It's a huge mistake to leave that it. Tab target hard cc which is unavoidable is hurting pvp

[clever wyvern]

2020 lol

forcing action combat?

[maiden hearth]

I think it’s not forcing action combat per say, more like skill shots

League’s done something similar, you barely see any point and click stuns now, it’s all skill shot based. There may be a few exceptions but all CC in league is pretty much skill shot based, the only one that comes to mind is Nasus and Renekton

[past whale]

I’ll kms

[maiden hearth]

The speed hackers will never get CC’d we’re screwed

[vale saffron]

Mazlahar Point and click ranged giga fucking supress

[maiden hearth]

Ok, there are exceptions

But you get my point

[sinful bluff]

The more impactful skills in the game should be skill shots imo like chain pull for example (when it works properly lol)

[balmy wigeon]

Fighter too. Fighters and Rogues will do more auto attack damage with a bow than a Ranger. its sad really.

[sinful bluff]

rangers are like another mage class imo atm :p

[solar talon]

Tanks are pretty interactive imo. It rewards predictive and reactive combat.

Everytime I knockdown a group with a block I think of geese Howard from fatal fury with his counter. ,"PREDICTABOO"

[maiden hearth]

I have enough PTSD missing hooks as a blitz because of ping, no thank you

[zinc sierra]

A group ?

[sinful bluff]

Make them, optional with passive to become skill shot but grant a good bonus to them, like chain pull could disable dodge for 5 seconds, snipe could get 15m longer range and so on just some examples

[pale nexus]

action cam superiority

[mint terrace]

action cam unbinder gang

-this message was sponsored by the sprint unbinder gang

[past whale]

Ado > Miruku

[mint terrace]

AoC will never have 2 axis aiming with the collision and hitboxes we have

and we already have a BUNCH of frontal cone skils

[pale nexus]

you take that back

[past whale]

There’s a reason you were benched for finals. It’s 100% skill issue and def not rogue being broken af

Ado the divine mage

[pale nexus]

[solar talon]

If they are close enough it knocks them all down

[zinc sierra]

What ability ?

[daring sentinel]

Reflect?

[coarse scroll]

Yeah. If everyone had access to low ping, fiber internet, it might be feasable. But that's not possible, so there's so much back end that goes into making fights possible between ppl with different pings not "i obviously hit them but the server said i missed!"

[maiden hearth]

When you piss off a group of bards

[coarse scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/slide-dms-smooth-gif-18798043

Bards:

[sinful bluff]

da man maxed out his charisma stat

[violet shoal]

Clerics, what tends to be your spell priority as a healer in pve? Keep up soothing is the prio 1 right? Auto to build DP and keep up bless wep mana regen then a mix of deliv/r.beam?

[ionic plume]

Flash cure also to spot heal.. doesnt interrupt your weapon swings so you still keep building you weapon swing combo to get your refreshing follow through to proc.. if you use mouse over heals/casting you can flash cure your party members while keeping the enemy as your target so your weapon combo doesnt restart

[violet shoal]

Yeah ive not played cleric since p1 really, any particular spells i NEED to get asap vs ones to avoid in your opinion?

[maiden hearth]

100% get the wings one, it’s a CC break

[glad cloak]

Defensive targeting setting

[violet shoal]

Whats this do specifically?

[glad cloak]

it lets you target an enemy and an ally at the same time. so while you are auto attacking the enemy, you can target different allies. So you are hitting the enemy mob, tank gets low, you target tank heal them. Since you are still targeting enemy and auto attack still on - you don't have the click them again to start attacking immediately again.

unless its the skill judgement because it doesn't have dual targeting option like bard's glee and tomato skill split options

[violet shoal]

Ty mate ill check i got it on

[halcyon obsidian]

Starting Rogue. Could use a tip on Skill Tree and Weapons. The double daggers feels good so far. I can't find any guides on Skill Tree.

[ionic plume]

Personally found defensive targeting annoying and just used mouse overs. Some people swear by using the function keys to cycle between party members. Best bet is try multiple style and see what feels best

[violet shoal]

Is there a way to have wit and mock as separate spells that dont change depending on target?

Im excited for Tell sword (Bard/fighter)

[weak lion]

Yes, but it requires a skill point.

[clever wyvern]

it does not lol

[umbral seal]

daggers pretty meh early on. they're only good down the road when you're stacking crit.

[halcyon obsidian]

I'll experiment. I'm just going slow so it doesn't matter too much.

[violet shoal]

How do you do this? I find if i drag it off the talent page it still changes

[clever wyvern]

its in the bottomright

[real robin]

been out of the loop for awhile any word on summoner release?

[sinful bluff]

you will probaly hear more about them at this months livestream i think and next month will likly be whats cming in at P3 (assuming no delays)

[crimson tundra]

You can slot each one separately if you grab the individual icons from the skill menu

[violet shoal]

Is that the spellbook?

[crimson tundra]

Yeah, under the skill menu. It’s on the bottom you see the individual icons for the tomato and jest

[ashen niche]

server are down ?

[leaden gust]

Yep.

[ashen niche]

thx

i buy yesterday the game 🥲

[dire coral]

the way it always happens. now you wait till thur and then we play will there be a delay or not

[charred seal]

Hopefully Thursday we will have the artisan patch and we can get back to it.

[lethal linden]

what ever happened to enchanting? is that still a thing?

[charred seal]

Yeah, it was very OP back in one of the versions and I think they got all the feedback they wanted. It will probably be back upgraded soon. People need to be patient with their priorities because the way they are doing it, is a sort of "continuous improvement" thing. They will work on and then test each thing up to a point, and then take the feedback, then come out with a new, but not finished version. If you keep thinking that each release is the finished version, you are going to be a wreck by the end.

[lethal linden]

i was just curious if it was still in game or just gimped now?

i am very much fine with constant change as we work out the kinks - just wasnt sure its current status as it was so core to the last phase but now i dont see anything enchanted at all

[charred seal]

It is a bit gimped. There was one version where they experimented with it quite a lot. It is quite targeted a the high end, you probably wont want to enchant disposable levelling gear, unless you are working on the profession. And professions as a whole were a little bit of a bust. We are all waiting on the rewrite.

[wheat peak]

Sorry in advance if this question has an obvious answer. I have been looking online for answers and can't find anything recent. I also haven't been keeping up on the news the past 6 months.
my question is has the cleric secondary archetype been released yet? if not have they stated a rough estimate as to when that might be the case?

[maiden hearth]

It’s not out yet

Dunno what rough estimate, but maybe P3? That’s supposed to open in August

[wheat peak]

thank you

[flat shuttle]

No, but we did get a sneak peak that clerics revised skill tree is one of the first they've finished.
Looks like more meaningful choices in skill point allocation.

[wheat peak]

ooh that's cool is there a video somewhere? or an article?

[flat shuttle]

I dont have it on hand.
Was fairly recent and it was like a YouTube short or something
@wheat peak

https://youtube.com/shorts/A9dsemQIPNU?si=8ovYZ1QCL5WSoeiw

[wheat peak]

thank you so much!

[lunar lintel]

Necromancer is just a healer that never stops

[trail meteor]

hello i forgot this channel existed so im just gonna plug

https://discord.com/channels/256164085366915072/1382411949127766066

mages rise up 🧙‍♂️

[thorny tusk]

some advices for bard skill tree?

[glad cloak]

you respec it a ton as a bard player, GL

in general its mana bard if needed > if not then go damage bard stuff

[stiff fulcrum]

If you play in a group, adapt to the group, probably mana style

Solo, go life steal

[gleaming thistle]

i would recommend having serenade on the tank at all times when in a group as the heal and mitigation saved the party many times. and ofc separate the jest and glee heal. the madding dance 2nd upgrade purifies undead if you didn't know that

[stone mango]

Have they made any survivability changes to tank yet? Last I played it was super squishy.

[stoic loom]

New in the game here and in the loop of things, but is there a current way of saving skill trees and loading them? Is there plans on when/where/how often you can respec as for now you can just respec whenever which isn’t a problem I actually like the flexibility

[stiff fulcrum]

i'm not aware of saving skills, maybe someone else knows, but here's what Steven said (quite a while ago so i m not sure if it s still a thing):

[stoic loom]

Very nice thanks been very helpful

[daring sentinel]

all raise for necromancer jokes

[coarse scroll]

Raising a family with a necromancer is pretty easy.
They tend to be buried close together

[winter abyss]

khalidurs heavy breatstplate or baslisk skin tunic for a bard pvp build?

[smoky matrix]

Just depends on what you want to minmax. A lot of people use Iron Wing, and that works too

[pale nexus]

Wouldnt want to use iron wing over basi if you have the choice as the oportunity cost that much health is hard to pass up you can get your mit elsewhere taking iron wing> basi is a no go

[smoky matrix]

Depends on the build. I was just pointing out a possible option

[pale nexus]

Not really you want that HP for your gambits DPS bard doesn't really exist anymore and having so much of it on 1 piece takes care of alot allowing you to build more mit

[winter abyss]

That’s what I was thinking ngl

[meager shuttle]

8k hp bard isnt real it cant hurt you

[coarse scroll]

Your chance of dying to an 8k hp bard is low. but never zero

[finite leaf]

Did any new classes drop? After the rouge yet ?

[cosmic field]

An 8 man party needs at least one bard for mana, and you'll often see 2 (1 for mana, 1 for damage) and occasionally up to 3 (third for healing) bards.

The default is to run mana, but coordinate with the other bards in your party.

[winter abyss]

If it’s pvp you might occasionally see speed as well

[cosmic field]

Yeah yeah sorry I was focused on PvE for levelling because I assumed they were new

[mint python]

so when will fighter get the bucky treatment

[elder swift]

and when will the Cleric get blessed by Bucky?

[verbal osprey]

Few months ago we were told that all classes were having skill trees reworked with ranks of investment for the actives, starting with Cleric. And that Bucky was working on it.

Last month they showed some progress towards that.

Maybe we will see more in tomorrow’s stream. They’ve mentioned expanding PTR in July in preparation for P3 launch. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[humble scroll]

are there any gms around?

[blissful violet]

Hey there Guys ans Ladies,

I am new Here.

Does anyone could tell its possible to play a healer (cleric i think?) alone and is there Something i should now ?

[lone cypress]

Cleric works perfectly fine solo, you can facetank most things. Skills have quite long CDs, so most damage comes from autotack. Not the most fun way to play the game.

[blissful violet]

The grind is real all fine thx for Infos

[sick dock]

Strongest solo class I'd say, but the kit is very boring to do damage with and healing wise it's got nothing spicy except raw healing (defiant light and prismatic beam feel good though)

[ionic plume]

You can aoe grind and face tank most things it seems.. takes a while to kill stuff but as along as you get refreshing follow through and blessed weapon you should never go oom

[meager shuttle]

Ping from downtown u french dweeb

[oblique depot]

Question for Cleric mains:
Do you feel like you have build diversity? From my experience, my build is not really much different from another person's unless we specifically plan for one cleric to go group/ aoe heals and the other to be the tank healer. Even then, its minorly different

[ionic plume]

There not much build diversity atm for most classes. imagine you start having decent diversity when they do the skill tree reworks which introduce Skill Ranks and when you unlock your second archtypes

[oblique depot]

That is what I am hoping for, was just looking to make conversation

[ionic plume]

👌

[meager shuttle]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-speak-french-emy-clg-red-i-cant-speak-french-french-is-not-my-language-gif-19777361

[tender saffron]

For a level 23 bard, which weapon is best for DPS (for when out solo gathering, etc), I went with Pinion Pen + Focus, but it's feeling underwhelming if I have to do a lot of casting as well although seems fine in a group. Other options, I guess are Rividium Short/Long Spellbow or one of the Carphen Spellbooks. MP is currently 175, so I, have wiggle room to push that up after which other stats/Additive necrotic dam etc might be worth considering, I guess

Any thoughts?

[winter abyss]

what nodes have blackmarkets?

[cosmic token]

Wrong channel for that question. Think you are looking for the blackmarket vendor? Should be in any T3 node or higher.

[winter abyss]

Mb I thought I was in the shol channel I found it btw

[leaden gust]

P3 Spear

[ivory estuary]

How is class balance for PVE with the latest update?

[floral socket]

PvE? it don’t really matter. I think balance will be focused on PvP mainly in Ashes.

As it is you have variety in PvE groups. Fighter, Rogue, Mage, Ranger.

[ivory estuary]

Looking for a good solo pve class that have amazing legs for pvp what would you recommend?

[stoic loom]

Ranger

[tender saffron]

Ranger or Cleric maybe?

[ivory estuary]

what makes the ranger or the cleric better than say a mage?

[stoic loom]

Personal preference

But ranger does have loads of mobility

[tender saffron]

Ranger has good range dps, good mobility, able to build decent robustness if you need to, good utility options so well suited to be a good allrounder

[stoic loom]

Cleric has sustainability

[ivory estuary]

but cleric is a endgame healer or can it play another role?

[tender saffron]

this

[stoic loom]

I’ll be honest the best way to find out is by playing

At the moment everything is subject to change anyways

The whole environment is for testing purposes anyways

Just test a few and choose the one that suits your play style

[tender saffron]

Cleric has moderate DPS if you spec that way but huge survivability and is always welcome in groups to help with gearing. Ranger is more solo friendly imho

[verbal osprey]

All the endgame specs are pretty similar at this point. Hopefully that changes with the stuff they talked/showed over the last 3 dev streams (investment in ranks of active abilities)

[ivory estuary]

Alright, the lets hope the future brings good things.
thanks for all your time 🙂

[stoic loom]

🫡

[floral socket]

In my opinion I would have said Rogue or Bard if you are looking for solo PvE

Both are decent in PvP too.

Ranger is ok but I find in solo PvE it has a little more difficulty in survivability.

It is great if you have a group though for sure.

[drifting radish]

rogue for farming mats.. sneaky sneaky..

[glad cloak]

Ranger is a lot of rations solo pve.
I’d recommend bard if you want legs. No class is faster. Add in self healing, mana, and decent damage and you’re set.

[drifting radish]

But, you'd have to play Bard. :/

[molten vessel]

whats the downside of playing bard?

sounds like good all-round class, right?

[drifting radish]

It is, just not my play style. I'm not a fan of the animations & sounds. I've personally been attracted to more of a Rogue / Ranger play style & aesthetic.

[tender saffron]

Bard can also be jack of all trades, master of none. One of the dedicated classes should always be better at their chosen thing. This could become more pronounced with additional secondary skills coming eventually to allow those classes some of the flexibility of the bard but allowing for continued specialisation.

[drifting radish]

Agreed. I'm always happy to have a Bard in party. Though, if I wanted to roll a bard, that'd be like roleplaying a band kid. Hehehge. It'll be neat to see how they play with a secondary skill tree

[molten vessel]

if they do the second spec anything like archeage, bard is going to be a really fucking good second spec for almost every class

[tender saffron]

Bards are excellent generalists able to secondary heal, do a bit of damage, support and fill roles, with, of course, the essential mana song. They're just unlikely in high-end PvE/PvP to ever be as good at single target ranged DPS as a well-specced Ranger, or AOE as a well-specced Mage, or heal like a well-specced Cleric, or close-up DPS like a fighter, etc, etc. So you're good for solo, great all-arounder, but if you want to be the best of the best, pick one of the specialists with all the advantages (and disadvantages) that it brings.

[quick path]

i really wanna know whos made it to this end game content people talking about in a test thats probably 50% implemented at best

im going to assume its current outdated metrics based on what is currently seen as peer min/max

[pearl violet]

rogue better with GS or dagger ?

[pale nexus]

if you have more gear daggers end up being better imo

GS is better when you need a placeholder and need the shaken+ SMS for dmg

[pearl violet]

Thanks

[inner dragon]

Hey Guys, is there a Tierlist which Class/Weapon is the best for pvp?

[meager shuttle]

I know im late but they are wrong, bard is the best, ranger used to be insane but now its okayish, rogue is good because you can single out named mobs if you wanted to but overall bard is just better. Cleric is ok too but u do no dmg and ur just slow

While lvling

Summoner when out has a good chance to be the new best though

[quick path]

nah they already said its gonna be a spot fill in. so likely to be a worse bard with pet summons

[meager shuttle]

sure buddy

[glad cloak]

Maim is the best feeling skill to use in the game (fighter) imo

[little yacht]

sad but true

[mint terrace]

spells/skills feel really good in general, one of the best parts about the game

except the buggy ones

[meager shuttle]

lunged assault wants to know your location

god awful to use

from the feel and actual usage

salvo too, feels like a shittier version of barrage

[mint terrace]

Most are good still, but yeah, there are exceptions

[meager shuttle]

yea the coolest thing i did was blitzing a bear while it shoot me up like 5m high and did a midair 360 maim on the bear

very stylish

[dull heron]

guys, can someone share some good tank builds here?

[stiff fulcrum]

i do not think the game is in a state where you can actually find builds of certain classes.

[meager shuttle]

Its very straightforward the only classes that allow some variety in builds are currently bards and rogues

If you see a pattern there, its just an illusion

[clear lynx]

Max HP is all you need for general content if you have a cleric.

Gear is meant to have a purpose. The developers expect you to go get the armor sets you will need for content that you want to play.

If you want to fight Firebrand the Dragon, you would want to look at Forgeguard Armor because it has fire resistance.

If you want to fight higher level monsters, you would look at the Iron Wing armor set to increase your damage mitigation to survive big hits.

[meager shuttle]

While it might be the case when the game releases in 12 years but thats not the reality we have you can tank firebrand even with full dps gear, there is some varience you can go for esp since there are DR curves in the game

the world bosses are quite pushovers

If you want to build a set then i highly recommend to build around pvp, pve is irrelevant

[hoary aspen]

I was thinking about tank design and the state of melee and I think more disruption/cc options would be good additions to the tank kit. I feel like they have too many stuns currently and that they cause too many DRs - they should take the stun off of vengence 3rd hit and make it a silence for x seconds. and they should make tomahawk an option of stun when running away via point or you can spec into just a thrown net/root for x seconds.

[wild hornet]

Hi is there any date for two archetype select future ?

[quick salmon]

Any word on the summoner yet?

[meager shuttle]

no

[stiff fulcrum]

Hi, not really, I think they want to release summoner first

[stiff fulcrum]

Last known estimate is September/october

[glad cloak]

Maybe by Christmas archetypes start I am guessing

[cosmic field]

Last Livestream, Steven said September and Margaret said October so... January

[quick path]

2Arch won't happen till all classes are in and all reworks are set.

[exotic slate]

Me want Tellsword

[fathom bronze]

Devs, what's the most played class, least played class? With the exception of Summoner.

[glad cloak]

I'd guess mage as most played? maybe there are a lot of low-mid level fighters or rangers

[static spire]

Was going and looking at future archtypes and sub classes.

Realized there is no Druid class. And the Ranger Cleric where it would make the most sense is called a protector. I feel like they are missing an oppertunity with that.

[wicked basalt]

Hell yah where is the Druid??

[drifting radish]

Saving archetypes for way after when people need a fresh pair?

[limber grove]

Druid and Monk would be my choice for expansions

[drifting radish]

ashes of pandoria

[dusky plover]

Maybe, for lore reasons, there are no druids

[coarse scroll]

I have a feeling the ranger/summoner will be druid like.

[dry iris]

They did show a druid npc way back

[split marsh]

go read the datamine'd abilities... lmao its like a warlock. All the secondary class is going to do is add passive affects

[tropic fox]

summoner leaks you say

[split marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-duck-gif-1363576254939741235

[brave citrus]

Hey, is it possible to play Cleric as DPS? Like ret paly

[meager shuttle]

no

maybe with second archetype

that being said you still can fight people esp 1v1

[tropic fox]

Technically. But it will be very poor dps and best for solo play as most folks will not like you.

If you want a multi role class, then likely summoner will be for you. Best to keep playing a bit of cleric and mage to try and get a feel for the summoner before hand. Likely you can take what you learn and apply it to the summoner

[fossil shale]

Basically, if you want to play as a Summoner in P3, you're best off playing Bard/Cleric/Mage and maining those, getting gear and such, until the launch of summoner and then transferring everything over.

[meager shuttle]

or wait til its out

[wheat peak]

seems like Ulken wants the same feel as ret paly from wow not a multi role class. best bet is to wait till we get secondary archetypes. prob cleric/ fighter or fighter/ cleric

[tulip grotto]

Ya for melee or go cleric/mage for range

[hard kelp]

Hy guys. If i wanna range dps bard. Book or Wand and why? Thanks! 😘

[indigo meteor]

Book is splash AE dmg and wand is single target

Wand and shortbow seem far better for getting your procs off more quickly if you want higher dps, for my opinion

[bright arch]

I do like the grappling hook of Rogues and how you can invade any place you want, that is the coolest way you would think an assassin would play.
I'm just a bit worried how effective it will actually be. I guess if you have like 8 rogues going together to invade, you could have a big impact.
But if everyone knows rogues are doing that, will people only move in big enough groups to invalidate them?
Basically I am trying to understand what Rogue's role in Sieges will be, since that seems to be what the game is mostly balanced around.

Maybe the archetype mixing could fix some of that by giving rogues more aoe and/or aoe CC for large scale?

[warped quiver]

Good question. I think they will end up being on the lower end of scale in terms of content of that magnitute. I think they might be able to move up depending on the secondary archetype.

[manic fern]

Just look at the impact classes that could scale walls had in DAoC. You'd think maybe they wouldn't be able to do much, but one sneaky assassination can really turn things around in a siege. Their role was kind of as disruptor, killing vulnerable squishy casters so no one feels safe to free cast on the walls, rez killing people as they get picked up. There's lots of possibility

[sinful bluff]

turns out they make summoner a physical class cause they summon physical objects asnd thows it at the enemy :p there 4 magic classes and 3 physical ones atm so u never know lol

[bright arch]

Interesting, I'll look into it!

[fossil shale]

So far from what we know about summoner based on leaks and developer vods, we know summoner is going to have lots of spells related to applying dot damage to enemies, spreading said debuffs, and silencing foes while commanding their pet.

[wheat peak]

tank, rogue, fighter, ranger are all physical
cleric, mage, bard, summoners are magical
theres 4 for each

[wheat peak]

spreading debuffs? i need to rewatch the leaks i dont remember this

[fossil shale]

It applied to I think one ability in particular, if the enemy dies while under the effect is jumps to a nearby enemy. Sorry if I was vague in the description.

But no guarantees if that is true or not.

[wheat peak]

no you're okay, that is an interesting ability. i am worried that summoner ends up into another dot pet class though. i was under the impression that it will mostly be a pet focused class

hopefully it just becomes an option with secondary archetypes and not solely focus' on the dot aspect

[fossil shale]

https://tenor.com/view/the-two-towers-lord-of-the-rings-aragorn-helm’s-deep-hope-gif-8669068073397169641

[wheat peak]

do you guys know/ think that there's going to be water based augments in the future? i really love the stream weavers attacks and spells and i would love to be some sort of water mage/bard/summoner

[last crown]

While this is true, one problem the game has right now is that magical classes are much more sought after. You "need" one Tank. You don't "need" any other physical dps classes. You "need" at least one Cleric and arguably you "need/want" at least 3 magical classes. 2x Cleric + 1x Bard or 2x Bard + 1x Cleric. (Summoner being a support classes should make this even worse)

I can easily see ideal group comps being 5/6 magical classes with how it is going right now

[wheat peak]

while you make valid points i dont understand where this is coming from. all i was pointing out was that there are in fact 4 of each damage correcting the person i was replying to. are you suggesting that because of the disparity with how necessary the magic classes are summoner should be physical?

[last crown]

Not entirely and, to be honest, I am not sure I have a solution here. My point is mostly regarding the fact that an even 4-4 split is mostly an illusion. It appears that way on paper but right now it's definitely shaping up to be lobsided.

One of the best incentives to play physical dps, at this time, is that you will have better gear drops

[wheat peak]

ah i see. i honestly hate to say this but hopefully this discrepancy is addressed after the secondary classes are added. maybe it will increase the physical classes utility and/or viability? i do think that viability of a class shouldn't be dependent on the secondaries though. there's also the fact that they are going to do another round on the base classes too i hear so there's hope there.

one thought that does come to mind is in pvp if majority of people are going to go magic the majority will also probably wear cloth which physical classes can take advantage of. this however doesn't really fix the issue in pve :/

[last crown]

I guess, the most immediately solution that comes to my mind is probably "too late". However I wish they had created at least one physical dps class that filled a support role. Bard/Cleric are already support capable and they have announced Summoner will also be.

Also, while it is still Alpha and not a final representation, the most recent 8v8 tournaments we have seen have been seeing teams with 6 magical classes top. (2x Ranger, 2x Mage, 2x Cleric, 2x Bard)

I guess, it's a double-dipping problem. Ashes of Creation has a melee problem (which disproportionally hits physical dps classes) and also has a "what do you bring to the table"/support problem which disproportionally benefits magical classes.

As weird as it sounds, maybe adding more support to a class like Fighter might be a way to address both of these. (Although I am not sure that fits the class fantasy)

[wheat peak]

yeah, balancing class fantasy and supportive utility definitely adds an element of difficulty to the problem. however, i think ranger has room for its class fantasy for support as well as rogue with their tool abilities! they definitely need to help fighters out though seems like a lot of people find it difficult to be viable in large scale pvp

[torn mist]

No

[zinc cove]

shout gives damage buff. ez

[torn moon]

any thoughts on rogue?

[hard kelp]

Nerf

Na they really fun and made well imo

[torn moon]

perfect i plan to play one on august 😄

been waiting since i bought my key lol

[vale pendant]

they gotta fix the move that dashes behind an enemy tho lol

I keep getting spun and launched a good distance away after using it

[stoic silo]

They have this problem in GW2 with Bladesworn.

[static cipher]

They just need to add a support aura, like druids in WoW. Give fighters a +5% crit damage and rogues a +5% crit chance aura and they will more likely secure a group slot.

[quick path]

Oh the comments I could make to this haha

[stoic silo]

Poor Bladesworn.

[whole rampart]

What’s the top 1v1 class is it still bard havent played since phase 2.0

[past whale]

On live? Rogue or Tank prob. On PTR Bard

[whole rampart]

Thanks brodi

[empty pewter]

Best guide to get me started as a mage in Phase 3? 😃

[mild elbow]

What changed on ptr for bard ? Or rouge was nerfed ?

[past whale]

Rogues are just bugged on ptr. Half their kit doesn’t work. When that gets fixed they prob will take over the throne

[whole rampart]

can anyone reccomend a bard guide for dueling or pvp in general? I heard live is dead and to just go to ptr havent played in a minute I feel like a newb.

[vale pendant]

Rogue combos go kinda crazy

[shut sage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3VN6Nplvtc&ab_channel=Atash

I'm not a bard expert, but this should be helpful

[drifting radish]

That's def one archetype that needs an hour video to explain.. hats off to Atash for taking the time to set this out. Thanks for the link.

[stoic silo]

I got me some good ones in Aetereon 😎

[whole rampart]

Thank you !

[subtle badger]

Whats up yall Apologies if this has been asked/answered but will Alpha 3 have the secondary archtypes?

[glad cloak]

Later on, not at start

[muted yarrow]

https://youtu.be/SfvCTPs82Zg?si=_7JMYFAhU6gfC5XM&t=278

Roxis has a good bard guide and some good pvp on there worth a watch

[kind marsh]

Definitely watch it, but it's kinda outdated...
PTR game state PVP wise is completely different from what it was when this video was made.. And looks like its going to change more till p3

[hushed zephyr]

I mean, don't you just auto-attack with wand and win on PTR?

[drifting radish]

Wouldn't work on the NPC camps, they do have a decent wallop @ lvl 15 at this point.

[muted yarrow]

how is it outdated? its not outdated at all

the 2.5 phase pvp is good to watch even if its different from the ptr, its a slower pace and you can understand things a lot more

you're still doing the same things the only thing different is the ttk ( until they add the talent rework )

[kind marsh]

Video is from feb 9th.. Am i missing something?
Anyways, i didnt say its bad to watch.. Actually i think i said the opposite.

[muted yarrow]

yeh even though its still up to date with today's build 😄

[muted yarrow]

Well you said its completely different to the ptr pvp, but what Im saying is its worth watching the PvP from 2.5 because its still the same abilities / counters / interactions and theres a lot to learn from it

[kind marsh]

Ok. I feel like its one of those arguments about nothing. I was just giving some context to a guy that seems new.
Video is from phase 2 though, not 2.5

[muted yarrow]

Im not arguing with you Im clarifying what you said thats all. Video is from phase 2 ( still valid till this day, they havent really made any class changes yet ) the pvp on the channel is from phase 2.5 ( still can learn a lot from since its still the same abilities )

[dusky wind]

What weapons are yall using for Bard? Haven't tried one yet but just made one. Wand? Greatsword always seems to work well with any archetype but the aesthetic of a bard swinging that thing around doesn't fit with me lol. Sword? Bow?

[whole rampart]

Thank you

[muted yarrow]

steel great spellsword is currently BiS cuz of the good amount of health it gives, long bows are really good for PvP but wands + tidewardens are also good

[dusky wind]

thanks for the tip! So greatsword/longbow would be a good setup for melee/range? The wand+focus sounds cool for range too

[muted yarrow]

yeah its a good setup, if you're going for max health you can do a scepter / focus for melee and wand + focus for ranged, lots of good options as well

[dusky wind]

sounds awesome! excited to try bard out with this in mind

[whole rampart]

@muted yarrow thanks again learned alot from that vid as well for when I pve in phase 3.

[muted yarrow]

glad to help 😄 FYI there are talent reworks comings for phase 3, we dont really know if it will overhaul how bard is played or just be small variants of what we currently have, but Im guessing it wont make foundational differences

[gritty orbit]

As always, the best thing to do is actually learn for yourself and test stuff

[drifting radish]

Bard is something that I have found was helpful explained as to how the skills layer. With that wee bit of foreknowledge, theorycrafting gets more efficient.

[gentle panther]

I’m here to say the tank archetype needs some love.

[unique oxide]

Exactly ! They can't fix Grapple for 6 month now

[gentle panther]

Grapple is almost useless in PvP and pve.
The archetype doesn’t have much of a place in PvP. It doesn’t do enough damage to be a health threat, nor does it do enough cc to interrupt the flow of combat ( wall is awesome, but it’s just one ability)
Low level tanking requires action and attention because you’re lacking gear; however, your reward for leveling and getting gear is you just stand there and wait for the occasional CC you throw out.

[proud monolith]

Grapple would be nice to buff/fix but not to go overboard with - take BDO for example, there is points in the game where only classes with a grab ability were any good or viable for PvP. Having strong CC can be wonderful for the user but it can also have a serious effect to what would be required from people attempting to stay in meta build groups only (given the meta only people will always be sticklers and it would be nice to consider tanker as a big help in PvP because playing a moving brick wall is always funny)

[languid bronze]

When Grapple works as intented, it's going to be so damn good

[past whale]

As long as grapple keeps an animation long enough to make it so people can dodge it with reaction I’m fine with them making grapple insane. I even want multiple charges as a talent or giving it an AOE grip

[stoic silo]

If it worked like Lancer chains in TERA or Barb chains in Diablo it would be better.

[languid bronze]

We all dream about this. Choice node for 2 charges or reticle feels like a good solution

[quick salmon]

so whats the status of the game as of yet? summoner out? classes any closer to getting their second class?

[drifting radish]

Believe it or not, Ashes has a website with updates on it..

https://ashesofcreation.com/news

Also, do hit subscribe & like on your favourite content creators that are supporting the decemination of Ashes of Creation propaganda through Eurasia, Eastasia & Oceania..

[glad cloak]

No big changes to classes. Some have had mini reworks like Ranger but they are all the same ish. Rogue got added. Summoner is a ways away. No secondary archetypes till near end of year I would guess at least

[drifting radish]

Now, back to learning this bard thing more intimately. Kinda getting the gist.. at lvl 5 if anyone is levelling on Shol for whatever reason.. zubsonic

[limpid arch]

Hi Ashes of Creation team,
I’d love to suggest a system that would offer players more creative freedom and elemental identity: the ability to swap the elemental type of a spell while keeping its core mechanics intact.
A great example is the Mage spell Ball Lightning:
Ball Lightning – Creates a large ball of charged electricity that travels slowly forward, rapidly dealing Lightning damage and applying Volatile to enemies it overlaps with.
It’s an iconic, powerful spell with great synergy potential. But what if players could choose a different element—like Fire, Frost, or Wind—while keeping the same projectile behavior and function? This would let Mages truly express their playstyle and affinity for specific elements without losing access to signature spells.

Each variant keeps the slow-moving orb that damages enemies it overlaps with, but adds unique flavor and secondary effects based on the chosen element:

🔥 Sphere of Fire
A burning sphere that deals Fire damage over time and applies Burning (damage over time debuff).
— Ideal for DoT builds or burn-synergy effects.

❄️ Frostspike Orb
A glacial orb that chills enemies, slowing them with Chilled stacks and eventually causing Freeze.
— Excellent for crowd control and Shatter combo setups.

🌪️ Gale Sphere (Wind Variant)
A fast-spinning orb of compressed air that travels forward quickly, dealing Wind damage and applying Knockback or a brief Stagger.
— Great for displacement or zoning enemies.

🌊 Tide Orb (Water Variant)
A swirling orb of water that deals Water damage and applies Wet or Slow, amplifying Frost-based effects.
— Synergizes well with Frost or Lightning follow-ups.

🪨 Stone Core (Earth Variant)
A heavy, rumbling orb of earth that deals Earth damage and applies Root or Staggered to enemies hit.
— Perfect for locking down mobile targets or creating chokepoints.

✨ Arcane Pulse (Teleportation/Arcane Variant)
A blinking sphere of arcane energy that damages enemies and If the ability blink is pressed you can blink in front of the orb and if you press the skill again you can bounce the ability again. Your able to do this 3 times, possibly reducing spell cooldowns or refreshing a short-range teleport.

[mild elbow]

I like spell daggers and short spellbow, for the aesthetics

[violet pumice]

Anyone playing as a bard? I have a question that isn’t being answered in the questions channel.

[mild elbow]

Fire away

[violet pumice]

Just curious about the first spell given: Quick Wit. I wanted to see if there was a better way to target allies in order to use the spell in Action Cam mode where you can hover targets to cast. I have been playing Cleric, but I know it works on them just fine. bards don’t seem to like the hover aspect of healing aside from healing myself haha

[mild elbow]

I am playing action mode, I have self target on mouse 3 button , and cancel target on mouse 4.

When in party I just press F1 to F8 to target allies .

Also in settings you can add a hard lock indicator , which will show a green reticle on a friendly target

[violet pumice]

Gotcha. I was kinda hoping it would function a bit more like Cleric for the targeting to be a little better for healing allies. Thank you though!

[mild elbow]

Also remove quick wit from your skill bar, and instead put Jest and Mock, Separately.
It's more reliable that way

Well you have lovely serenade, just use its AOE version when grouping , and you have shielding dance, that's all the healings basically

Jest I often times use on my self as an Oh Shit heal.
Or on a tank for that extra bit of mitigation

[violet pumice]

Oooh! Thats smart! I’ll check how that works.

[grand willow]

.

[glad cloak]

I feel like having a bard get into melee range is more dangerous than a fighter

[jovial timber]

been playing a few other games like pantheon with summoner necromancer. Been told its a EQ type clone. I hope the summoner and necromancer are somewhat like this. But such a long wait to find out what their vision is for the class..

[rancid spade]

It will be interesting to see how they make it viable. Mage was still 1-shotting ppl in 2.5 and ptr comments show it may be easier to 1-shot now as mage. DoT builds won't be too relevant when ttk is this low.

[scarlet root]

also rework blizzard to not be tied to character movement but selectable anywhere on the ground just like hoarfrost for god`s sake

[meager shuttle]

[glad cloak]

Hoarfrost 2

I like that mage is encouraged to be a mid-ranged ranged.

[limpid arch]

I mentioned this in a past post, but I’ll say it again here — I really hope changing your spell’s element isn’t locked behind picking Mage as your secondary. If that’s true, it feels like a wasted opportunity. Mages should be able to choose their primary element from the start, and going Mage/Mage should be about enhancing that element or fusing it with another, not just swapping it for a different color and damage type.

For example, take Ball Lightning. In my post, I showed how you could just change it to Fire, Frost, Wind, etc., keeping the same core mechanics but altering its flavor and effects. That’s cool… but fusion takes it way further:
• ⚡🔥 Stormfire Orb (Lightning + Fire) – A plasma sphere that chains lightning to nearby targets while leaving a trail of flames. On impact, it bursts in an AOE that deals mixed Lightning/Fire damage, ignites enemies, and reduces armor resistances.
• ❄️⚡ Cryocharge Orb (Frost + Lightning) – A frozen, electrified orb that slows enemies on contact and periodically sends out shock pulses. Hitting a frozen enemy shatters them for bonus lightning damage.
• 🌊🔥 Steam Burst Orb (Water + Fire) – A boiling sphere of scalding steam that damages over time and briefly obscures vision in an area, doubling as soft cover for allies.

That’s the kind of system that would make Mage/Mage stand out—true elemental fusion, not just an element swap.

✨⚡ Manastorm Orb (Arcane + Lightning) – Summons a charged sphere of arcane lightning that slowly drifts forward, automatically arcing chain lightning to nearby enemies as it travels. At any time, the caster can press Blink to instantly pull the orb back toward themselves with a magnetic surge, damaging enemies in its path. Pressing the ability key again causes the orb to detonate in place, releasing a Mana Burst that restores mana to nearby allies and sends out a concussive shockwave that briefly stuns enemy players. The orb’s recall and detonation allow for creative positioning—pulling it through enemy lines for disruption, then detonating it to empower allies.
This way it:
• Feels active and tactical, with two unique ways to interact.
• Has both offensive pressure (chain lightning, recall damage) and support utility (mana restore, stun).
• Fully reflects both elements (Arcane = control & resource manipulation, Lightning = chain damage & stun).

[meager shuttle]

[scarlet root]

you're cooking

[split marsh]

ai slop

[limpid arch]

Yes A.I. corrected the spelling but it only fixed the info I gave it the ideas are mine just A.I. spelling check.

[split marsh]

ai slop

[scarlet root]

talking about mage, i was thinking since blink is arcane magic why accelerative blink does not apply to arcane volley? since its the same type of magic. would be cool that after you spec in accelerative blink and cast arcane volley instead of 7 arcane missiles it would be one big and insta cast like with frostbold and lightning strike. and again i really would like to be able to choose with an aoe circle where to cast blizzard 🙏

[bright arch]

A Blizzard that is able to be cast from far away could be too overpowered for Sieges

[limpid arch]

I don’t think he means it needs to be far just be able to select the area in a mid range area around the caster.

At least that’s what I took from it.

[bright arch]

Oh yeah sure, as long as the circle touches you it might be fine

[limpid arch]

Yeah, that sounds like a really fun synergy idea. If you’ve got a full stack of Arcane Missiles and use Blink first, it could transform into a single, instant-cast Arcane Blast for big burst damage. Having little optional procs like that—especially tied to mobility skills—would make the gameplay feel way more dynamic. It’d be great if they made that sort of thing selectable in the talent tree so players can opt in to those combos.

Me personally if I get to pick my spell elements I would use only Arcane and lightning spells. Not a fan of fire or Ice.

I have a feeling there saving earth and wind for shamans

If we got to pick from wind and earth I would use Arcane, Wind, Lightning.

[molten heath]

Are there separate channels/threads for each class ?

[gritty orbit]

Yeah it doesn't matter honestly anyone that uses AI isn't worth reading

[gritty orbit]

Do you see them

[drifting radish]

Still working on that first cofffee?

[drifting radish]

I'd figure there'd be specific ongoing threads for archetypes in forum.. hmm..

[lilac pelican]

How exactly does the "Regeneration" ability of ranger work? Is it basically constant passive healing, can the "target ally" be the ranger themselves? Is it strong?

[lilac dust]

yes just constant passive regen, yes the target can be yourself, it's okay at best, better than nothing

[charred seal]

It is definitely going to be interesting when they start getting the "Trinity" going in PvP (if they do). Up until now, like most games up to mid level, healing and melee in PvP are less effective. Player collision is also going to make a difference. Up until now, PvP looks like a bit every other game, DPS rules. It will be interesting to see if it will change, or if players even want it to change.

[woeful raven]

This idea is amazing i feel like mage is really lacking

[autumn tinsel]

Haven't been around since April, is Fighter still pretty rough or did they finally get them touched up a bit?

[crisp light]

When summoner tease / update 😅

[torn mist]

Lol. Even now melee could be king with proper setup and teamplay

[lilac pelican]

Is there a go-to melee weapon type and ranged weapon(shortbow vs longbow?) type for Rogues? Or is most stuff okay as long as its physical?

[loud mantle]

Hi all, what two archetypes do you find most comfortable to run in a two player group?

[meager shuttle]

tank and cleric

[gentle ocean]

when summoner?

[stray zephyr]

when was summoner the last time you asked?

[fickle mountain]

Bard and Rogue was fun

[meager veldt]

Is summoner coming on 26th

[tropic herald]

no

[meager veldt]

Does anyone else find rogues kit lackluster

[cinder fossil]

I expect all classes to be kinda lackluster at only level 25

[mossy jungle]

Did the tank rework happen yet?

[loud mantle]

no

although PTR is testing grapple fixes

[blazing sluice]

i think they took it out back and put it down like a lame horse 🥹

[vale saffron]

The devs are playing it on the PTR occasionally

[blazing sluice]

necromancer will raise it from the PTR grave

[errant thicket]

any updates on secondary archetype timelines? i haven't been following things for a while now

[shut sage]

Probably wouldn't expect them in 2025

[hushed zephyr]

Let's see. Hard CC, silence, mobility, gap closers, speed boost, magic immunity, mana drain, DoTs, burst damage, ranged attacks, snares, accuracy debuff, dodge buffs, healing

[glad cloak]

Ranger:
root, snare or daze (pick one), wounded, 10% movespeed, silence with a travel time, 5m extra range on 2? Skills, and out of mana

I guess there is thorns, regen, and marks but

[hushed zephyr]

Fighter: knockdown, life leech.... uhhh, bow attack? You can use the jump to try and run away, that's good.

[meager shuttle]

cataclysm does extra dmg on frozen target but does not aoe trip them? or did they change that ironically rogue can aoe trip

[shut sage]

It's not even 15%, it's 10% movement speed (unless they changed something in past few days)

[glad cloak]

It’s 10%, I’m losing my ranger skill memorization after not playing for a whole phase

I am also wrong about fighter, it consumes staggers to apply trip*

Chilled and frozen are just extra damage

[little yacht]

ranger is just a worse bard

fact

[split marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/thinking-think-xmen-thinking-of-you-thinking-about-you-gif-11412700073245673764

[normal lintel]

Have second archtypes been implemented yet?

[meager shuttle]

[verbal osprey]

Not yet. They are doing summoner first (Sept/Oct?).

then rework of the primary archetypes to have ranks per active abilities and passives in their skill trees…

then at some point they’ll do the secondary archetypes (last we heard, they’d do tank/cleric augments first for each of the primaries)

So probably not for awhile yet.

[valid valve]

are the level up scrolls anywhere?

[junior egret]

Are ranger hunts broken? Tried raven/tiger in test earlier. The mark does not return if you kill the target while it is up, and you have to recast it. Any word on this?

[shut sage]

I reported this bug a long time ago

[little yacht]

average polar fighter vs average eu fighter who just shows up and bangs in tourney

https://tenor.com/view/smug-wink-wendy-williams-smile-gif-13569838

[mint galleon]

Well summoner is all im really looking forward too

And cleric is the first archetype everyones getting so necromancer will be neat

Other than that the game really struggles to hold my attention

[meager shuttle]

https://tenor.com/view/me-too-me-too-kid-incredibles-gif-19919940

[junior egret]

BARD SONGS: theyt are breaking on cc, is that supposed to happen?

[sudden lava]

they do on a Stun. snares and silence is not enough bc its a passive aura.

[junior egret]

so rogue incap will break it?

[sudden lava]

i think yes, but am not sure, didnt happen to me as a bard yet

[limpid arch]

Yeah same, I think that would be amazing. Maybe I should throw this up on the forums, but honestly back in phase 2 I posted a bunch of stuff and never got a single reply, nothing came of it. When phase 3 comes around I’ll probably give it another go. One of the things I gave feedback on before was the tank’s Grapple ability, the chained spear pull. I really wanted to see some talent tree options for it, like making it taunt enemies around the target, or even have two extra chains shoot out like a web so you could pull in a few more enemies at once.

[daring sentinel]

apparently, its such a "fun" part of the archetype. This has been raised before few times, if you want to express your opinion: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/66835/melodies-dropping-from-cc-is-too-punishing#latest

[torn mist]

Wrong

[autumn bison]

will phase 3 have the sub archtype system?

[meager shuttle]

thats almost a philosophical question

[split marsh]

at start, no. Eventually, yes

[autumn bison]

Thank you for answering my question

[meager shuttle]

I wouldt be so sure about that

[vale zealot]

Who is a sub archetype?

[meager shuttle]

[cinder scaffold]

does the fighter really suck ass?

i either wanne go tank or fighter

[gentle panther]

Fighter is awesome in pve. Mage is awesome in PvP. Bard is amazing in PvP

[cinder scaffold]

Ok thx, dont wanne be a caster tho.. needs to be melee

i hope steven gives melee chars more sustain in alpha 3

[daring sentinel]

it mainly "sucks" in large group pvp, in pve and small scale pvp you should be fine if you know what you are doing. More competitive guilds are likely to tell you not to play as a fighter, because you tax clerics more and cannot do much without taking more risks than any ranged dps class 🤷🏻‍♂️

its a fun class to play, I would probably roll a fighter if I had time

[cinder scaffold]

ok

[meager shuttle]

its hard to pull off but it does well also in bigger pvp battles but you need to know when to engage and when not

other classes have generelly an easier time to be effective

[glad cloak]

(imo)
fighter bottlenecks your group into playing zvz a certain way, while also not doing much more than another class in the same situation. You are also reliant on other melee playing with you (thus having even more melee in group). I think there does exist a melee meta, but a responsive zerg can't be forcefully locked down enough for the engage window to matter. Maybe its a bit different now since a lot of bugs have been fixed with tank. But why do that when ranged also pump and is easier to play + coordinate + less punishing

When things are more objective focus we might see a change too. (Like you lose the zvz but you can body to get what you need).

The amount of 16v16 + going on hasn't been very high the last few months. Maybe internally in guilds but yeah. Some people are also going to play fighter / rogue no matter what the 'correct' classes are. I don't think people are going 'Ok, I need half the dps to re-roll to fighter, rogues, and tanks. lets see how different it feels now'.

Biggest ZVZ turnoff for me for fighter - not having full momentum on pull. Sometimes you just gotta go in and it feels real bad if you don't have momentum already. Needs like an adrenaline shot skill or something. I don't like the whole berserk system. If the Berserk uptime/CD stuff doesn't line up with the window of engage or your uptime when you go in, it feels aweful.

A lot of people are looking for fighters to give some kind of token utility to the group so that they can justify their presence. Rather than 'making them good' so they are brought. Mages have some offensive utility, but they are brought because they are good - for example. Some classes are all about that utility like tanks and bards. So up to them if they want to make fighter another 'support' or if it can be the 'feed the beast' type class. I would love to have a place to dump excess healing, if fighters could burn HP for damage for example.

Fighter still good small scale, and okish 8v8. Starting p3 though we will have to see how everything feels. All these opinions partially invalid.

watching fighter montage clip VS ranger pushing 3 buttons and doing 2x as much

[vapid rampart]

Can you arrive at the planned Protector class by starting either as a Ranger OR a Cleric? Or do you have to start as a Cleric & then take Ranger later?

[glad cloak]

Classes don't exist yet / there are no secondary archetypes. Have to have the primary class as the one you leveled up as to get that secondary. A cleric ranger is a protector. But a ranger cleric is a soulbow

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes#Classes_by_archetype_combination

[vapid rampart]

Thank you, my understanding is the cleric based ones go live with phase 3 launch?

[gentle panther]

Hey, you guys should start talking about “tank” as an archetype name. People love that.

[trail sphinx]

Not for a while still. As I understand it, they will bring in the summoner archetype first (EA september/october-ish).
After that they'll rework all current archetypes.. and THEN introduce (some) secondary archetypes.

[split marsh]

I mean people are going to call it tank regardless, so why does it matter what they call it

[gentle panther]

It’s a strange hang up for people and they get very emotional about it.

[split marsh]

gamer dads going to gamer dad

[worldly wolf]

Best 1v1 classes?

[gentle panther]

I saw a Nova Ordem bard seduce people away to their deaths on more than one occasion. It was amazing.

[snow path]

what class goes well with a bard if i want to duo level, i played fighter before but kinda wanna try something new

[sly palm]

Another bard. Meta groups run 2

[teal marsh]

I'd do a physical archtype to be able to use any gear drops. I'm partial to Ranger, but any would work.

[sinful bluff]

Fighters and rangers are probaly gonna be the classes that change the most when they pop out the new skill tree tbh

[uncut bear]

I’d expect mage is also on that list. It does not even have a class resource lol

[sinful bluff]

mages class resource/mechanic is that elemental changing thing so they do have something.

Rangers lack class identification and kinda like a mishmash of skill that barely work together, they kinda play and feel like a mage and ur better off playing the mage in that case most of the time
and fighters weeeeel fighters :p lol

[ionic plume]

I wanna see a fighter/mage be able to turn their spin to win into different elements thats create little ice/fire/arcane tornadoes that trail off from you as you spin on folks

[sinful bluff]

and i wanna see summon/fighter just conjures swords to throw at people :p

[deep palm]

Summoner-fighter will most likely be attack minons with a damage boost/melee hits.
But I hope your right it would be cool to see swords flying across a seige.

[sinful bluff]

naaa not all suimmoner need to confure pets 😛 just confure sword and hurl endless amount of weapon at people 😛 i think it be funny 😛

[drifting radish]

Tossing dwarves would be better.

[sinful bluff]

thats fighter/ranger

[ionic plume]

If they dont have dancing weapons then its a missed opportunity

[jaunty bone]

Ws fighter improved for large scale pvp?

[fossil zephyr]

any big changes happened with any archetypes? I stopped playing after they made Tank poo

[uncut bear]

Nah, just some polish on some
Abilities. They are not doing any changes until Summoner is out. Then the major changes will come.

Tank had a couple abilities fixed

[fossil zephyr]

trying to decide which archetype to play this phase. but they kinda ruined tank for me last time. when they changed a load of abilities. removed the defensive toggle and changed it to a cast etc among others

thinking maybe cleric or bard

[junior egret]

That's about the least fun class anyhow, Fighter is a tank on crack. Does damage, doesn't need a heal bot or mana, can hold aggro.

Keeps things interesting at least the rest of your group wont fall asleep

[azure trellis]

When is summoner supposed to come out btw?

[gentle ocean]

1pm

[mild cloud]

Soon..... October is what I think they said last, so probably January.

[gentle ocean]

wait its not in phase 3?

[mild cloud]

Yes, just not at the start of phase 3

[gentle ocean]

wuuuuuuuuuut

[mild cloud]

I hear ya

[gentle ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/despair-suffer-suffering-sad-sad-quotes-gif-14270258133567956444

how tf is it phase 3