alpha-two-archetype-chat

[umbral shale]

they need to fix block chance rating.. and make passive block actually work before anything else

passive block hasnt worked since before phase 2 really.. the passive block chance rating was screwed up on the january 29th patch

soo, we can't even get out "fuzzzy feels not a real block block" anymore since shields give fuck all for block chance rating

so there is 2 issues that need to be fixed, and i feel like we'll get a rating fix but passible blocks actually reducing damage wont be a thing

[languid bronze]

I got a random chance block once

I got confused because I thought I had pressed the block button for some reason

[umbral shale]

the % is still there, like 1-3% depending on the quality of your shield, but the act of actually blocking passively doesnt reduce damage.

You can test this by standing still on a mob until you block, you'll see the damage is exact same as without a block.

it's hard to test now, but on last servers you could buy shield block rating food from a vendor that would bump you up enough to actually be useful

[languid bronze]

I know

[brave egret]

Question: dwarves run at same speed of other races?

[languid bronze]

Just try it

[ionic plume]

Yes. There is no difference between races besides appearance

[tired flax]

as far as i understand it, AS OF NOW, races are just skins. There is no difference in races, no stats, buffs, bonuses ect. That will change eventually, but right now it is purly cosmetic

[maiden hearth]

Dwaves should walk slower than other races.

[surreal atlas]

Im fine with this, as long as we get the ability to tunnel.

[maiden hearth]

Im ok with it

[surreal atlas]

The children yearn for the mines.

[maiden hearth]

Dwarves going underground and burrowing up like a scorpion

[surreal atlas]

yeah, and give elves the [Treehug] ability that is basically DND shadowwstep, but for trees..

[magic dust]

false, dwarves are natural sprinters, they're just not great at running long distances.

So if anything you could give them like 5% BONUS to sprint speed, but also increase their stamina consumption while sprinting 😄

[green charm]

useless channel

[sinful bluff]

humans are natural long distance runners too

[magic dust]

at least they got the barrel roll right! 😄

[maiden hearth]

Some humans are long distance runners, I get out of breath walking to my front door.

[sinful bluff]

i can run like 100m 😛
ancient human hunting method was terrifyiing basicly cxhase a animal down over days to beat it with clubs afters it basicly collapses from exhaustion :p

[magic dust]

let's keep the real world out of this... i mean let's only reference true fantasy sources. Dwarves are sprinters. Everybody knows that

[sinful bluff]

humans endurance uses less stamina, dwarfs is fatser sprint speed

[magic dust]

elves should then not tire, ever, but sprint slower

[maiden hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/lord-of-the-rings-legolas-lotr-gif-7579909

[magic dust]

Physics are also different in fantasyland 🙂

do we even want armor type to affect stamina?

[umbral seal]

i blame crouching dragon hidden tiger for starting all that.

https://tenor.com/view/crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon-tree-fencing-action-fight-gif-25555908

[knotty grove]

Are you going to shut down the server tomorrow and finish this week's testing?

[winged plank]

Nope. We are staying up until May 12.

[knotty grove]

OK tx

[winged plank]

Np!

[snow hazel]

My goodness, Margaret... do you even SLEEP? May your Monday be far calmer and restful than this past weekend.

[glad cloak]

I am playing a bard. I give people mana and put debuffs on targets . My aoe ticks for 30 so others can tick for 5-10x as much. Feels like thresh from league where all the power is in the baseline mechanics of the skills

[remote jolt]

hey im new and havent made a character yet. any tips for good archetypes ?

[maiden hearth]

Bard/Rogue seems to be the consensus to be the most fun

Ranger is relatively easier

Tank is miserable

Clerics are healers if you like healing

Fighter if you like unga bunga

Mage for big dmg

[remote jolt]

i kinda wanna focus on pvp. any tips with that in mind ?

[maiden hearth]

My personal opinion only

[flat shuttle]

Can you press buttons or nah

[remote jolt]

i would hope so

[maiden hearth]

Depends what you wanna do, though I believe rogues are the kings of 1v1, Mages/Rangers are better in GvG, healers are always wanted, tanks are pretty good now apparently? And bards are good at 1v1 but will have to transition to a support for large scale.

Once again, my opinion.

[remote jolt]

I wanna be in their face and overwhelm

[flat shuttle]

I mean this with emphasis if you're not into complex decision making for class of choosing.
Playing rogue i see some rogues do weird stuff all day.

Do you want to kill or be a bruiser?

[remote jolt]

a little bit of both. i wanna kill but not be a glass cannon.

[flat shuttle]

That'll be up to your build choices later with gearing (ha).

Try rogue, lots of options for survival, kit can take some getting used to in 8v8 ++

[remote jolt]

im kinda new to mmos. i played a little bit of wow and recently ALOT of BDO. but ill consider rogue and fighter.

[flat shuttle]

If you played BDO think of rogue as ninja.
Lotta buttons.

[remote jolt]

I play deadeye in BDO right now

i was a ranger in WOW

[umbral seal]

Rogue is a brain check. If you're not good at using brain, gonna be tough. Also notice alot of groups don't like taking rogues in pve.

[weak swift]

I would say that’s down to being meta chasers. I’ve seen groups that were 4 mages, 2 bards, cleric tank and groups that were 2,2,2, ranger, tank.

Meanwhile my group out here with no mages and a rogue/ranger

Also I meant to ask if anyone knew which secondary archetypes were testable rn at 25. I thought I had seen only some of the cleric ones and tank?

[obsidian fable]

Secondary archetypes aren’t in yet

[mild cloud]

Have we heard why the spellbows and spellblades were left out of the supply tokens quest rewards and if this was intentional vs an oversight?

[civic zenith]

any advice on a Mage build for PVM at lower lvls like 8-10

what spells should I focus on for max dps

[jaunty tusk]

Anyone have a general idea of how many fighter abilities you will have keybinded at max lvl the highest it's ever been trying to plan my binds out on this Azeron

[summer solstice]

What is the tank's hardest hitting dps ability?

[versed viper]

all your potential skills will be on your skill tree

[simple canopy]

Hoarfrost, Cone of Cold, and Lightning Strike/Chain Lightning is a good damage combo with Shatter unlocked, then follow up with Firebolt with Bombardment unlocked for it

That tends to be my go to starting rotation being level 9, if you're going solo definitely get Shell

[vague shadow]

? whats the best class to solo atm

[neon hawk]

i think melee is abit rough at the moment due to inconstant damage of mobs and 1star mobs hitting like a truck combined with crappy gear. so probably something ranged or a healer

[cunning tangle]

Probably single target Desolate + talent spec for guaranteed crit when they are tripped.

[languid bronze]

Probably Reflect, when used well

[cunning tangle]

Trueee 800% is huge! Forgot about that

[languid bronze]

A Bear deleted itself on me. It was scary, but I lived 😄

[cunning tangle]

Lol love it

I don't tend to spec into reflect until later into my levels

[languid bronze]

There are other must-haves you go for before that

When you can get Reflect with Mana Restoration you're all set for solo shit, though

[cunning tangle]

I even think inciting strikes before reflect because of the intimidating aura changes. I seem to be fighting threat against one of my guild's fighters despite having more phys power 😂 (context: I don't use the AoE version of desolate, or shield assault, or the other one)

[languid bronze]

inciting strikes is good for snap aggro and hard pickup, intimidating aura is good to gather up mobs that are hunting party members all over the place

I think it's good you can't just activate intimidating aura and just auto-attack for the rest >.>

[neon hawk]

so what are the must have skills for tanking solo apart from reflect and desolate

[craggy grotto]

Bard

[harsh gyro]

Is bard dps higher then cleric? Both aoe and single target. Just wondering.

[latent charm]

Stupid question: Is Cleric Ressurect broken?

[harsh gyro]

Broken as how? All I know that it's the only one that can resurrect

[latent charm]

I have tried multiple times and it stays grayed out.

Was just wondering if anyone else had this issue.

[robust cape]

Sometimes it fails. If it stays greyed out, it's usually because someone is pvp flagged and I am not. So then I have to flag to rez.

[latent charm]

I'll check that next time. Thanks.

[lyric cedar]

Hey Everybody, What’s Cooking 🍳
Finally slugged my way to level 10 amoungst all the chopping, glowering, fishing, hunting, and exploring distractionations
Short Bow ranger.
What weapon should I go for next and where do I grind/quest for it
-is it simply the rep vendor or can I do better than that?

[maiden hearth]

Level 10 weapon, you can aim for Highwayman Hills for a Forsaken Blades Weapon, they’re the best for level 10

Once you hit 20, I suggest going to either Forge or Crypt in Jundark for the skeletons. They have high weapon drop rate and will drop steel weapons which is your next goal.

Of course there are named mob as well, but this is probably your best bet for now!

[summer solstice]

Why does every youtube video of rogue have a greatsword instead of daggers? Are the daggers really that bad? I hate the idea of my rogue using a greatsword xD

I'm really struggling to find a decent guide for rogue yet anywhere online

[clear adder]

Yes daggers are bad

[floral birch]

I ran daggers for a while, then I switched to GS, it was like night and day.

[exotic raptor]

I ran daggers in p2. I'm running a one handed sword in p2.5 right now. Greatsword has the better burst for sure. Slow ass attack speed though for sustained damage, applying effects and resetting certain skills though.

Also it looks goofy as shit

[floral birch]

Yeah, the asthetics aren't great, but the AOE farming and heavy hits are bis.

[exotic raptor]

Yeah but to me it's just like the bis gear

There is one thing more important than killing folks and that is looking good while killing folks

[frozen wagon]

hi guys what weapons should mage equip?

[neon hawk]

iv gone for the book on my mage for aoe damage and just whatever melee weapon has best stats

[summer solstice]

Hopefully devs fix daggers sooner than later... v_v

[stoic silo]

Daggers are good for flurry resets. The game is still very burst centric.

Relatively easy to keep poison and hemo up too, can’t quite play like a sin rogue just yet.

[summer solstice]

Sad days

Am I super gimping myself by running daggers anyways?

like, is it straight up stupid? or only a little worse?

[stoic silo]

Daggers fine for PvE

Why wouldn’t you run Fleshripper for PvP

It’s busted.

[summer solstice]

I dont like the aesthetic of using a greatsword as a rogue

Looks dumb

imo

[stoic silo]

@summer solstice I can put DPS GS users in PvE on a dagger build, but GS is better in PvP if you’re running a burst oriented set up, most monkeys are trying for double backstabs and are comically bad.

But if you run control use daggers. They work.

[summer solstice]

Guess I'll be forced to run control build until they buff dagger burst :/

Sad but at least there's a build that works for them

[stoic silo]

Daggers aren’t for burst, they’re for high sustain.

Buzzsaw like DPS

[summer solstice]

Yeah

backstabbing with a giant greatsword feels so silly xD

[stoic silo]

When you look at daggers and it says 500 DPS, it means per hand

Just don’t know if offhand swings do less dmg

Or that might be for DW

You ideally want to auto and flurry reset tho

While keeping hemo up and thrash weaving

[summer solstice]

Im thinking devs need to add a dagger specialty skill in the rogue tree to increase its burst potential with skills. Like a dmg% increase from backstabbing when using daggers or something

[sinful bluff]

they have backstab bonus alreay

[sinful bluff]

there more for mobility there now slow down on daggers when attacking compared to other weapons

[summer solstice]

Thats not dagger specific though. I mean a passive that makes rogue abilities do more damage when using daggers, to compete with greatsword

[bright current]

Not really sure why you think dagger can’t compete with GS in pvp for “burst”, very closed minded way of thinking, I can understand because you’re being influenced by other people, but you really just need to take a look at it.
Specific weapons themselves (within each category) have more identity after the stat changes, the daggers having significantly more attack speed instead of only power means you can shift gearing attack speed from your other pieces of gear, with the DR on power, you almost always want to prioritize secondary stats as well, most people are just idiots and don’t know how to build. Stacking power and hitting DR is completely cooked, when you can use daggers, and use a longbow that has 0 attack speed and still hit soft DR on power

[fickle mountain]

Kind of hoping the add some weapon specialisations passives to the archetype skill trees. Something to entice people to use different builds.

[flat shuttle]

From my point of view at the end of p2, my overall stats were better (taking into account crit, crit power, pen) than someone using a GS.
Those small amount of attack speed really help get your combos out.
If you want to jackpot rogue and go for the big crit, cool, if you want to pump consistent damage out that still competes, and make a healer blow CDs go dagger.

[summer solstice]

@stoic silo

What do you think about this?

[bright current]

Fleshripper is literally behind in stats, anyone who doesn’t realize that, does not know how to build or how current stat weighting works at all. It’s great early game (where most players are at now, so I understand the hype) but at real endgame gear levels it gets outscaled

But yes, its a very strong weapon, especially at level 10, but at the highest level, its not “broken”

Like, intrepid literally has essentially capped power with logarithmic scaling DRs, so power starts falling off hard

[stoic silo]

He’s right. There’s also DR on aspd but you get that in daggers. I run daggers over GS, I prio agility over str, then I try to add in a good blend of Power, Pen, Speed.

[flat shuttle]

The same people who prioritize only physical power are the same ones who won't flex into any defensive stats, and they'll notice it when they get into skirmishes.

[bright current]

Yep theres DR on almost all stats, thats why picking them all up is really good currently

[fickle mountain]

I'm guessing it gets rebalanced on the next gear pass tbh. It's better than Tumoks drop.

[stoic silo]

I prefer death by a thousand cuts over being a burst monkey and I’ll always build sustain and utility into my archetypes.

[flat shuttle]

With no evasion on gear, when you pop smoke and have guile you get to 60 ish evasion. With two evasion pieces at 900 rating each you get to nearly 85% evasion. It's nuts.

[bright current]

Depends on what stats you are looking for, if you are already hitting DR on power, fleshrippers will literally give you like 3 more power over something else, while you can pick up like 10% more crit or something

I think its unbalanced while leveling/at level 10, its very cooked, probably too good

[umbral seal]

until they fix dagger auto attacks defaulting to range attacks in melee range when bow is toggled. daggers will always suck, regardless of whatever you guys say.

[flat shuttle]

That's a setting...

Like you can change the configuration so when you hit a throw knive in melee it would swap to bow.

[stoic silo]

@summer solstice play daggers. There’s two good ones in the Jundark

[umbral seal]

Press a melee ability in melee range with a GS or any other melee weapon equipped and bow in hand, you default to melee auto attacks.

Press a melee ability in melee range with a Dagger equipped and bow in hand, you default to ranged auto attacks.

This wouldn't be a big deal if weapon swapping between ability use wasn't clucky af

[summer solstice]

You dont gotta tell me twice! Sadly im only lvl 8 so i have a hot minute before i can be playing in Jundark it sounds like. I'm still using rusty starter daggers lol

im just a noob trying to learn the game

[coarse scroll]

How do spelldaggers feel for magic characters?

[spiral grove]

Tank buffed yet?

[mild cloud]

Are the copper ones the only ones that exist still? I like the idea of them improving cast speed, but I don't think they exist in enough quantities to test much.

[coarse scroll]

I havent actually gotten to the point where i could check if spelldaggers exist in a higher level, so i don't know. Hopefully someone else here knows.

[bright current]

Spelldaggers are okay, its the cheapest way to get some magical cast speed on your melee weapons, but there are only 3 level 20 daggers, and the stats on them are not that great, you can get better stats, even more cast speed, with any 1H and something like a proctors focus. Nothing special, but cheap if you just want to use 1 item to fill both slots

Usable, not great

[coarse scroll]

Noted 🤔

[lyric cedar]

So I’m thinking about Ranger Shortbow, daggers with Rouge as second archetype. Anyone running this right now? How’s it play?

[summer solstice]

There's no 2nd archetypes in the game yet

[bleak wing]

can anyone tell me what stats are important for rogue? Like is power useful? I know physical stuff is and crit chance is. Asking so I know what to look for for gear

[zealous hatch]

Am I allowed to post reddit links here

Gonna test

https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/s/ySglBJKKCo

If u play bard let me know if I cooked here

[summer solstice]

Gonna be hard to push a bard revamp right now when its currently the most beloved class (design-wise) in the game right now (by far). 😅

[zealous hatch]

If you check the bard fourms it really isn't

It 100% does not match bard fantasy and i hear from the grapevine i might be getting changes after Tank

There are massive issues with how resonance functions

[maiden hearth]

Definitely cooked here, but as the commenters said, I do think intrepid has so much shit on their plate right now this shouldn’t be high enough on the priority to be implement in P2.5.

I’d like to see secondary archetype, artisan skill trees, caravan utility, freehold expansion and more biomes first. But then again, maybe Bucky ONLY works on classes, in which case yeah, I do like what you’ve typed and would like to see it implemented

[vale saffron]

He doesn't only work with classes. We've known for like 3 years for example that his "baby" is the animal husbandry system

Which is apparently giga omega fucking complex/detailed to the point where Steven says it's the most in-depth artisan/lifeskill/profession in any MMO to date

[maiden hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-gif-1322462514095827258

Bucky making an artisan class scares me

[vale saffron]

They first talked about the updated animal husbandry system in like 2022 and even back then he was the lead on it. Apparently he walked into the meeting in a lab coat and massive whiteboard and shit

So they call him "Dr. Bucky"

[summer solstice]

Which i really wish they just wouldn't:/

We dont need mounts that are green horse/cobra/walrus hybrids

[narrow sundial]

Whats good armor for a cleric ?

[zenith zinc]

Any way to prevent targeting friendlies in action mode?

I cant use any of my abilities as a ranger if melee is attacking the mobs

[clear lynx]

So... SPORE isn't an in-depth animal husbandry game?
Dang

[zealous hatch]

Confirmed Bucky thinks I cooked

Dr. Bucky srry

[maiden hearth]

I think the targeted song effect thing is really cool

Forces people to actually position

[zealous hatch]

Yeah Wildstar had tons of spells function this way

[maiden hearth]

I really like this idea yeah.

Major/Minor notes seems interesting

However I am worried about ping and things not working. For example sometimes my Mes dance don’t hit people because I’m on 280 ping

[zealous hatch]

Well that's kinda a server issue. Are you OCE

[maiden hearth]

Yeah, I’m OCE

[ionic plume]

I've heard starlink apparently works well for ping for you OCE folks

[maiden hearth]

I’ll look into it but I have my doubts…. Honestly it just might be because I’m a poor bitch and an older computer

[proper hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/summoner-how-hacks-hacker-bruh-gif-20537154

[neat bison]

The stealth bug with rogue (showing gear and basically make it useless) sucks in pvp

i wish this was something that would be prioritized for a hot fix

[summer solstice]

100% agreed. It's useless in pvp atm lol

[neat bison]

yep

Just noticed trip doesnt even stop mounted players.

[shut valve]

what are the least played classes?

[strange pilot]

Is this what also lead to a lot of grieving in other MMO? I agree that stealth should be that. But what method should a non stealth have to detect that type of person.

Also can lead to people goin red which I not sure if they can stealth while in that state

[glad cloak]

Tank - is the least played I am guessing. Ranger is probably next?

[weak lion]

Tank: Everyone wants one, no one wants to be one.

[shut valve]

@glad cloak @weak lion ty 🙂

[neon hawk]

Don't know why people don't want to play tank. Could it be they hit like a wet noodle are extremely gear dependent, they are the most likely to die first and get xp debt and repair costs and we allready know the plans to increase elite damage meaning the tank is going to die even more.

Vs the mage and ranger that do decent dps and can kite elites (elite damage isn't a factor when the mobs can't hit you)

[tight portal]

Nah that couldn't be it

Hopefully they nerf another tank ability by 85% without a patch note

[stark hare]

are we saying tanks should be able to dual role?

[craggy mauve]

Healers more popular than tanks?

[green charm]

Sorry brother, buffing mobs to deal outrageous dps is more important

There's only so many hours in a day at the intrepid ideas factory

[versed viper]

Cleric is well designed and fun

better than most games out there

[versed viper]

Tank should be the last to die. That's sort of the point, isn't it!

[fresh ravine]

any one else's fishing locked to lvl 10?

[tall bone]

No thanks I'd rather use a couple tin cans and a string

[mighty tree]

how do bards do in terms of dps compared to pure dps classes?

[neon hawk]

nope point of the tank is to get things to hit it in the face instead of the rest of the party.

[craggy mauve]

Dual archetypes aren’t a thing yet?

Wonder how cleric/bard would be

[versed viper]

I would say it's both

[marsh verge]

best weapon for rogue currently? daggers? or something less obvious?

[shut valve]

2h sword. I was using daggers and was a bit underwhelmed until I made the switch.

[glad cloak]

Imo - solo it’s less. Like not so good. But the 15% multiplier spread accross a group means that other people’s increased damage makes you worth more. So like 4 dps doing 15% more is like you doing 60% dps (on top of whatever you do) for free. If you amp it with resonance, you’re getting like 30% of everyone else’s dps for 8 seconds in your party. You could go afk and do more dps contribution than the dps.

This is also why gear bard last imo. A piece of gear on a better scaling class also gets your 15% multiplier, making it even better.

[clear adder]

Bard can do crazy burst damage though

[craggy mauve]

Bard good healers?

[lyric cedar]

I use daggers right now for my ranger build

[glad cloak]

Mathematically bards pump a pretty good amount of HP per MP. But clerics skills are all really high mps. So clerics heal more. The amp aura helps them more but you can do a lot as a bard. Not full healer levels of output except during the healing saga which has a net healing per cast with all the glees of being overtuned maybe.

22.5 magic power per 2 seconds of healing, glee is 50% per 2s with bounce chance.

Cleric soothing glow is 60% per second , or more than double glees HPS. But you need to include comedy masks that are also multiplicative with the aura
Blah blah blah, etc

Problem is that mana bard is required. And the output of the menacing aura is hard to ignore. And you don’t want to run 3 bards.
Meta may be running the double melody of damage and healing and go full comedy. First bard is locked into mana bot. Or damage and cathartic

[shut valve]

Haven't tried that yet. But we were speaking to rogue specifically. How's it on ranger?

For rogue, the 2h sword is nice to hit harder, but you lose a little crit. Daggers is nice for less DMG but a bit more crit stats

[glad cloak]

Melee weapons for rangers are a stat stick. If you are good on power then going for an AS melee weapon is ok (depending on how valuable you weigh attack speed)

[umbral seal]

apparently daggers got a buff

go check

idk if they fixed dagger auto attacks with bow in hand tho

shortbows actually doing dmg now 👀

[flat shuttle]

Ima need screenshots of these new power numbers..

[hot granite]

This

[flat shuttle]

They went 50/50 @hot granite
Steel veilblades now 1400 pp/500 AS

[mild cloud]

did the spellbows change too or just the phys ones?

[flat shuttle]

I haven't looked personally.

[umbral seal]

they literally just said daggers and shortbows

so probably both

forsaken phy shortbows were 800 power

now they are 1000 power

[woeful atlas]

spell bows got buffed as well

[umbral seal]

pre patch, shortbow autoattacks felt meh

now i can kill shit with shortbows as a rogue without doing much

im a ranger again

[flat shuttle]

Do you notice a difference in attack speed?

If you dont then that sort of tells us the gradual increase in AS

Is much different than PP

[umbral seal]

for the shortbow? seems the same

idk

[flat shuttle]

For me I always used daggers on rogue because the AS felt better and flowed well with combos.

[glad cloak]

Changing the stat weight towards power is a short term fix. Addressing the symptom of power being so far ahead of other stats in value

I wonder why they decided to make this change now. Did they look at the meta data and see all the greatsword rogues?

[spiral grove]

Tank buff when?

[flat shuttle]

Like if that was the case why not look at substats more?
Crit chance vs crit avoidance is a 1:1 counter atm.
Fix penetration
I dont think too many people complained about daggers aside from the mastery tree being pretty sad given the class identity.

[nova furnace]

hello, what weapons are bards focusing on starting out?

[neat bison]

Can any other Rogues confirm there is a bug with poison application if you animation cancel it?

[glad cloak]

Part of the reason speed is bad cause it doesn’t scale with hots as far as I know. Crit chance and power only apply at half effectiveness for healing. Penetration and accuracy don’t help for healing. So ur stuck stacking power then going for defensives

[flat shuttle]

@glad cloak do you think separate stats like magical accuracy, cdr, and like healing crit chance are needed?

[glad cloak]

I think it is good they exist for diversity’s sake. The issue is that they either don’t help in all situations or their scaling is bad. (And a few that are mechanically bad).
Examples;

1. Accuracy is actually a really good stat. But the problem is that it doesn’t apply to healing. Even if your fireball misses, the dot hits anyway. Also people get enough main stat to be accuracy capped anyways unless they fighting higher lvl mobs.
2. Additive damage could be really cool. But it only works on auto attacks. If it also worked for heals as, let’s say, additive healing? That could be really cool.
3. Attack speed as the same issue. Yes you cast skills faster but in the end all it pretty much allows is for you to do more auto attacks by compressing the dps casting part of the rotation. It also doesn’t help dots.
4. Then there are bad scaling stats. Regeneration rating is 500 for 1 hps or mps. So it would take you almost a full minute for 1 free spell. That’s already “solved” by the bard anyways. Imo remove regen stats. If those are ever meta we are doomed.
5. Another bad ish one is penetration. You become hard capped where extra pen gives 0 value. Possibly very early on. It also doesn’t help healing. (Pen could be something like increased healing % based on missing life would be cool idk).

Another problem is that hyper specialized stats are weighted the same as catch all.
Healing power vs magical power
Magical crit avoidance rating vs avoidance rating.

I think it’s ok if a cleric wants to go full healing power. But they can’t really go crit unless it’s universal crit rating. Cause magical crit is only 50% as effective for healing crit rating. Etc.

Lots of nuances and stuff

[flat shuttle]

Great write up, we've been delving into this a bit.
I know there are some external calculators made and such.
There's a lot more to balance out, I'll be curious to see how it balances without changes once we get the full gear system.

[glad cloak]

For penetration that’s based on my current understanding of it being an additive function based on the targets mitigation rather than a multiplicative ignoring

change salvo to increase bow auto attack speed by 200% for like 5 seconds and apply armament

Or to double auto attack damage for 5s

[flat shuttle]

Yeah it doesn't seem to work very well.
At some point my penetration didn't really seem to do anything different.

But I only had 3 pieces to flex off evasion into offensive stats.

[glad cloak]

Penetration super strong , hardcaps early

Basically same problem as accuracy

[craggy mauve]

Are spellbooks a good weapon choice for a cleric?

[noble latch]

I might be wrong, but I think Clerics are supposed to use the focus.

[craggy mauve]

Focus is melee off hand no?

Spell book is a ranger weapon

[sacred fox]

Focus is an offhand weapon overall so I can be used for both melee offhand and ranged offhand. I know some people that run sword/mace/scepter plus focus and wand plus focus

[umbral seal]

turn helmet off when

[spiral grove]

Tank buffed yet?

[brazen orbit]

I have some bad news for you...

[spiral grove]

Whats up?

[brazen orbit]

Tank is still meh without a truckload of gear

[spiral grove]

ty

[neon hawk]

also in the future elite mobs will have more damage meaning tanks are gonna have an even worse time

[spiral grove]

Sounds like a lot of fun....

[green charm]

yes

[spiral grove]

@green charm you sure?

[main bramble]

What’s the primary stats for Rogue? Dex then Str?

[torn imp]

More spell power and more healing power is king. Usually spellbook, long spellbow, wand/focus. Not sure where short bow fits in now. Really all of them can feel good in different situations

[craggy mauve]

What skills should I take as I level?

[spiral grove]

Tank buffed yet?

[pure idol]

Enjoy.

[green charm]

the sudden addition of +1 mob for every summoner is going to fry so many shitty computers

[vale saffron]

+1?

The plan last we heard was up to 3 at all times (with more potentially being able to be summoned temporarily)

lets see if I missed that changing

[fossil rivet]

Ashes of Creation Wiki

Summoner

Summoner is an archetype in Ashes of Creation.

Summoners can shift their roles easily to fill gaps in a group's composition based on the role of the summon they are utilizing coupled with their choice of secondary archetype, which influences the role the summons perform best at.
Q: Summoner has been said to fill in the gaps in a party's role com...

Learn more here

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Summoner

[vale saffron]

Then on top of that everyone can have +1 combat pet

Then +1 cosmetic pet

[green charm]

even worse then lol

summoner classes are a disaster

if people thought performance during this launch was bad

[pure idol]

Oh yeah it's going to be hilarious.

[old breach]

do you know if healing power "shares" the DR cap of 250 mag power?

[glad cloak]

idk im not a healer, current guess is yes. Also I have said Attack speed is bad but its dependant on TTK. over a long term attack speed is worse. But if every fight is 10-15s, then that attack speed might let you get off another spell you wouldn't have in the same time window, etc. Also if you have the ability to 'never' have downtime. A possible example being bard where you have so many skills and auto attacking faster is valuable to consume resonance faster to go back to casting spells. Going from 80% to 100% means you are getting off 25% more abilities (which is essentially a multilpier) if you can avoid 'downtime'. But this is weighed against other stats so yeah. Theres also exceptions / odd cases like deliverance for cleric. The faster your casting speed the more efficient the heal becomes, etc.

all my math is napkin, I don't do excel spreadsheet graphing of DR curves, etc.

[umbral seal]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-good-gewd-star-wars-episode-3-gif-15386400457909814305

[dry iris]

Just turn on frame gen bro

[old yoke]

can anyone explain why different nodes are better for different classes? seeing that in global chat but idk why

[void juniper]

Personally, I just hope the summoner pets are suuuuper microable! I do NOT want to rely on pet ai in this janky alpha. I want attack/stay/move to/follow. i want abilities to be manually controllable and be snappy/responsive. I want an ability to quickcast a recall spell which resets pets location if it gets stuck.

I watched some Lineage 2 Summoner vids since Steven compared AoC summoner to it, and I have a feeling summoners will be VERY reliant on their pets.

[spiral grove]

Tank buffed yet?

[glacial spruce]

I mean it makes sense for a summoner to be reliant on their pet, but I agree that the AI will probably be pretty janky when they release it

[void juniper]

I’m used to pet classes. I play warlock in WoW. The pet ai can be jank there too, but mostly you can circumvent this by turning all the abilities off autocast and hot-keying every pet ability. If my pet ever feels unresponsive 9/10 times it’s because my pet was ccd, pet was out of range/los’d and couldn’t cast, pet was on gcd, or pet was out of mana.

Pet ai being hands-off can work out in games like diablo 2 or guild wars 1 where you summon massive amounts of minions on the screen. It’s unacceptable on single-pet classes

[heavy vector]

anyone got suggestions for an archetype that's good singleplayer?

[clear adder]

cleric

or bard

[torn imp]

Cape

[vague shadow]

I wonder if there would be any want for a Monk style class, I would love to have like a elementalist or like a bender type of secondary class

[tame sphinx]

Can we make daggers viable on rogue please it doesn't feel very rogueish when the meta is 2 handed sword and nothing else.....MAKE DAGGERS GREAT AGAIN!!!!

[ruby pebble]

Make fighters fight again

[umbral seal]

Shol launched. Made a fighter, was pretty engaging until i realized... "What the fk am i doing, rogue does all this but better".

[ruby pebble]

you think intripid would do something when they look and see oh, wow whats this raids for almost all content have the classes with 1 being excluded why dont we do something LOL

[umbral seal]

Which is a shame cos fighter has alot more weight to it, the abilities feel punchy.

[ruby pebble]

fighter skills shouldnt have cast time imo, some of the skills take way to long to get off that a dodge roll instantly outranged any combos you try

[umbral seal]

i can't remember who posted it a few days ago, you saw that one clip where the cleric just spam rolled out of SB and the rolls negated alot of damage. Kinda cringe

Let me roll at the right time and all your abilities tickle me

[ruby pebble]

pretty much

[river eagle]

Newb here, so no one uses dual daggers? ALl I see people using is Greatswords- is that for stat sticks? I see them on Clerics, Bards, Mages...

[flat shuttle]

Plenty use daggers 🤷

[clear adder]

Daggers kind of dog right now

And there’s a really strong greatsword easily available, so people using it more

[modern aspen]

Across the board you’ll see people using stat sticks rather than specific weapons. Eventually as they settle into their class they’ll swap. As a cleric I like using a wand with a focus because I generate more mana and magic power, but situationally I may need to range wounded stacks on the target to add pressure.

[dire coral]

hard to use daggers when my GS has almost 3k power

[vestal swift]

What buff exactly do you think they need at the time

[exotic raptor]

What's your p power?

You lose a lot in other stats for that sword. Big power number is not always better

[dire coral]

only around 140ish with current gear and 16

[exotic raptor]

Yeah I'm using a 350 power sword and have 122 at 20

[dire coral]

Ill look at moving to daggers if I can get Jackels after 20

[exotic raptor]

Feels bad man

[dire coral]

I currently have no accessories worth anything either just GS ashens and wreckless gear

[exotic raptor]

I have 1 accessories worth anything and have 4 pieces of lvl 0 gear still lol

[dire coral]

2.5 is the best Phase!

[clear fox]

Anytthing been said about fixing the aggro system for Tank? Having to cast the aggro aura every 10 seconds now is god awful

[knotty grove]

How many hours will the brothers close down?

[crystal wolf]

Is it intended that fighter can be hit by the rogue snare that locks your camera and shit while whirlwinding? I would certainly classify that as a disabling effect

[still hull]

Well snare does not block natures call. So they can shit anytime 😛

[crystal wolf]

I would think the very theme of whirlwind would be immunity to snares and weakness to silences but fighter is intended to be a second class citizen so idk

[still hull]

Oh jeezz. stop this "2nd Class Citizen" bullcrap.....

[spiral grove]

I just think the abilities ain't it

:(

[vestal swift]

Feel like aura should grab way more aggro imo

[hybrid snow]

Is rogue viable in large scale pvp?

[white crest]

Greatsword is really good stats no matter what and good damage even as spell.

But I'm running daggers on ranger atm, so I can stack crit with my longbow.

But every class is basically "use greatsword and longbow"

[sinful bluff]

Daggers not far behind that now i beleive with recent dagger shortbow changes

[sinful bluff]

Being able to full heal them moment there in melee range for 1 second definitely makes them 2nd class citizen haha

[green charm]

snare hits you through everything

even dodge roll

[sinful bluff]

yeah look at it now didnt relise it has like 2 times the power it should have there a lvl 20 skin stripper and it has 1300 power and fleshripper 2700 or what not at l;vl 10 i feel they got these 2 around the wrong way power wise

and a 2 at the start instead of a 1 😛

if im gonna guess flesh ripper probaly spose to have 1300 power and then skinstriper spose to have 1700 they got these reversed and then accidnetly hit a 2 instead of 1 when typing in the values going by other weapons

[soft scarab]

Bronze GS is 871 power and a green fleshripper is 2600 - we all kno its unbalanced, but at least theres some gear around, finally almost fully kitted in lvl 10 gear at 18. But it took time, lucky drops/rolls, and lots of farming. Made bank off the auction house selling wood for 1 silver a pop, no matter the rarity. Look for Dac's shop, im cheap!

[exotic raptor]

Its cute we are still talking about that great sword.

Its extra power comes at the cost of all secondary stats. Its not that amazing

[sinful bluff]

it not that amazing yet almost al physical dmg uses it from what ive seen :p

[ionic plume]

fleshripper as a lvl 20 weapon would be find since it has zero secondary stats

[sinful bluff]

well it a lvl 10

[ionic plume]

i know D: ... needa get one for my future fighter

[summer solstice]

I CANNOT wait for our 2nd archetypes to release!! I need my Paladin class so I can purify heretics in holy fire and purge the pagans!

[crystal wolf]

Hey that's really stupid and sucks big time, thanks!

[exotic raptor]

The dr of power is harsh you can get 200 power with other gear easy enough and have a bunch of secondary stats. Pretty much any lvl 20 weapon is better than that sword overall.

But hey keep chasing power it'll be a good laugh.

No thank you, you can't have my build. Figure it yourself lol

Yep not doing your work for you. Keep believing what you believe. Doesn't hurt me in the least.

Must be using that new math

[plain vine]

@exotic raptor agreed. But im seeing some niche setups where power stacking is still BiS

[exotic raptor]

There are a few that is works well with. Its not the be all end all like it used to be.

[flat shuttle]

I think in the beginning power is king, but as more people approach the soft cap on phys/mp they need to broaden the spectrum with more defensive layers.

[glad cloak]

It’s like the move they did with daggers and shortbow shifting stats into power more. Cause you need that power early on. Late game shortbow and daggers are fine options at power softcap. (If you are ok with speed)

Treating the symptoms

1. More power on short bows and daggers instead of attack speed (stat value imbalance)(I am ok with this as an easy short term fix)
2. Increasing mob damage (to reduce the mass pulls people can do (this is good imo))
3. Making it so you need to be in the level range of named mobs (not enough gearing options)
4. Players making alts to farm low lvl poop and Bork bones more efficiently (less high level poop options)

[flat shuttle]

Yeah i reworked my rogue BiS list and it balances out easier for gearing. More HP and Evasion while still being 220-240 phys.

[glad cloak]

Bard is cool but it doesn’t feel fulfilling , is it just me? Idk. Mana bard is ok, but I don’t get feedback for increasing allies damage as a damage bard? Or feedback with doing a good job debuffing

[flat shuttle]

Should they add additive numbers instead of combing your buffs to our damage?
Like instead of me critting for 1700 I'd crit for 1400 + 300 from bard?

[glad cloak]

I’d like clarity for the cones of aoe effects
For damage numbers to be colored or have a symbol based on their damage type (magical or physical)
I think the splitting damage number could be neat but it’s kind of bloat? Would the bard see the +300 or both or just the dps?
I know mechanically and numerically bards are crushing it in groups but I just don’t feel it?

Tanks would probably like to see if a damage hit they took was magical or physical

[flat shuttle]

Yeah i get that.
That'd definitely drive more people to play the class too.
Reminds me of aug evoker in wow. Significant buff to comps but they weren't "seeing" their value.

[versed viper]

yea this is a thing, you don't really feel it. It needs to be more obvious. Take Chanter class from Aion as a good example - similar class to Bard. Their abilities had usually a very obvious visual effect so you knew they were buffing you. Debuffs on mobs were less obvious. But the idea is if players can see easily without looking at buff icons what is happening to them, they feel better about it and get excited, and then they will notice it

[white crest]

as a new player, what even is the power cap?

[runic ore]

y'all got some more of them sniffs summoner teasers? @mighty nimbus

the concept art got me hyped

[royal flume]

mass pulls is what makes the game interesting ;d otherwise its dumbed down grind fest

[weak lion]

Every stat has diminishing returns as it nears a defined "cap". Thus, it is more effective to spread some stats around rather than put everything in one area.

[olive yoke]

ranger/rogue or rogue/ranger is going to be cursed at a lot.

[royal flume]

why rogue ranger tho xD?

[summer solstice]

Ranger/Rogue is going to be one of the 3 classes im gonna play

Ranger/Rogue
Tank/Cleric
Summoner/Cleric

🔥

[royal flume]

i wonder about stuff like rogue rogue ;d or bard bard xD

what you get then or how good it is ^^

[vast crescent]

I'm looking forward to seeing Rogue/Tank and Tank/Rogue

[olive yoke]

poison stealth archer?

[royal flume]

i mean as long as you cant cc lock someone or oneshot them or outrun them dont see a problem xxD

[languid bronze]

If Tank/Rogue gets me two charges of Grappling Hook then I will definitely play the Batman class

[royal flume]

xD

[white crest]

i know how caps work XD i mean whats the number mason? lol

[vast crescent]

I'm hoping for some kind of dodge tank. hah

[royal flume]

i guess those will be your evasion chars with sustain 😄

[languid bronze]

Give me Smoke Bomb instead of Suicide Dome, Grappling Hook, and perhaps that fun Acrobatic thing and I'm ALL IN. I'm playing Batman 100%. I will live in Sephillion, just for the aestethics.

I never even considered pairing Tank with Rogue until Rogue was released and I realized the potential possibilities. Now I can't stop thinking about it.

[royal flume]

mobile tank is always a pain xD

[languid bronze]

I had many years of Vengeance Demonhunter in my baggage, so I'm all for mobile tanks 😄

[royal flume]

thats a wow thing? ;d

my first idea was to play bard because it looked like its hard to kill one 😄

or to "gank one" ;d no?

[languid bronze]

perhaps. a buffing tank would be pretty hot too

and a tank with a powerslide is pretty nice as well

[royal flume]

yeah i wonder how much of a mix of classes is that ;d or just few random effects ;d

[languid bronze]

we shall have to wait and see

I believe they want classes to play and feel pretty distinct, so which archetypes you choose to mix should probably matter quite a bit

[violet lantern]

Having more than 200 pp is useless, it s better to get more attack speed or crit chance at this point

[elfin coyote]

what do yall think are the main problems with fighter? personally i think it somehow simultaneously doesnt have enough sufficient combat generators and spenders with one of the generators being your cc break, your other 2 on gcd together and weapon finishers being hard ot get off melee wise or just simply not fast enough ranged weapon wise. So your just kind of a snail

[ionic plume]

not if you are sacrificing to much defensive stats.. after 200 power the diminishing returns starts kicking in hard

[violet lantern]

it look like you have a good build 🙂

[sinful bluff]

they play ranger too so in theory they can sacrafice some survivability for dmg when in group combat

[lucid vapor]

Hi guys, I made a forum post about Bard change suggestion. Check it out: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/67442/i-love-bard-but-cathartic-melody-sucks-i-have-an-idea-though/p1?new=1

[maiden hearth]

@zealous hatch

[zealous hatch]

i have been summon

summoned*

[flat shuttle]

Wait a minute, glowies you back in nova?

[zealous hatch]

cathartic does not suck. Also this post seems to be more of a change of terminology instead of gameplay. My post was a revamp on reso weapon. I saw you commented on it. You would auto attack to LOWER the cds of your songs. @lucid vapor. A good example is the fact reso weapon does NOT activate on you ONLY allies. So in theory the bard would use songs more to give themselves mana back or healing and attack speed on themselves an allies.

I know for certian i would do finishers if it reduced CDs on alacrity and seranade.

[ionic plume]

I love cathartic melody as a tank. In mass aoe pulls im healing my self a shit load

A free 50% life is nice

[zealous hatch]

a further change for cathartic would for it to be 75% heal reduction SINGLE debuff. Fighter should get this ability as well. Similar to unrelenting assaults. but the lifesteal alone is very strong...

[flat shuttle]

Would that be different than wounds...?

[zealous hatch]

Yes

[flat shuttle]

125% heal cut total? That's madness no?

[zealous hatch]

nah just make it to where you cant have higher than 75% reduction

it caps

[flat shuttle]

That's already insane though.
I feel like wounds needs a reduction lmao.
Coming from a rogue who's whole goal is to spread wounds in skirmishes.

[zealous hatch]

Yes but its easily dispelled. it does not stack so you cant pad it

[flat shuttle]

Maybe a reduction on the next heal applied from external sources?

[zealous hatch]

wound stacks so its padded

which should also be changed

[zealous hatch]

that could work

somehting with antiheal

[flat shuttle]

Yeah i think wounds should be 5 stacks max tbh.

50% cut is too aggressive

[zealous hatch]

nah i disagree

you need heal dampening or you get 50 minute matches like in WoW TBC and WOTLK arena

Would should be a single debuff of 50%

FIGHTERs rupture should have a unique debuff that does 75%

[maiden hearth]

I’s say the heal mechanic in WOW where you get “grey health” that has to be healed through is a cool idea.

[flat shuttle]

That's something that could be explored too.

[maiden hearth]

It’s doesn’t eat your max health, but it’s like an opposite of a shield, where it will shield you from a heal. And you need to heal through it before it heals the health bar

[zealous hatch]

that would be cool for cathroic

Death Knight does that

[flat shuttle]

Necrotic damage applies a debuffed that has to healed 😉

[zealous hatch]

good idea

[flat shuttle]

Yup dk vibes

[maiden hearth]

It fits the theme too

Cathartic

[zealous hatch]

I like the idea of hymn of the mind being the bards way to restore THEIR mana

and resonance is the way to restore the parties mana.

thats why i included in my post that reso weap only affects allies

[maiden hearth]

I wanted to explore an option of high risk high reward instead of Fortissmo (which I love, btw, don’t get me wrong), bard is stationary after a 2 second cast and song effect is doubled or something like that. And if you want to move again, it’s a 2 second cast.

Like you’re sitting still and jamming out lol

[zealous hatch]

another idea i had for reso was instead of blast wave its like a dance, only you play the instrument and have to get really close to do the effect

[maiden hearth]

Haha, I remember that April fools from Blizzard back in WoTLK where it’s like guitar hero xD was the funniest one

I was also considering like a “beat” type of gameplay, where there’s maybe like a metronome or something on your screen and if you cast skills or auto or something to the beat, it enhances your skill effect or crit or something

[zealous hatch]

id like to see a bard make a post on how to redo counter point

and Saga

because i dont care to try to change those

i do have ideas tho

[lucid vapor]

I don't go into numbers or gameplay but vibes in my post. I don't mean cathartic sucks in terms of numbers but in terms of vibe and also I don't like the fact that gear determines which melody is better in terms of numbers - I think it's bad design.

[lucid vapor]

About your post - I like many ideas there, most of them and would like to see that in action. I actually misread/missed the point on reducing CD time with weapon finishers, it changes it all. I will think about it and comment on your post later

[modest hatch]

What's wrong with counterpoint?

[zealous hatch]

most of the high lvl bards dont take it

for good reason

[modest hatch]

from my experience it really depends on your comp and what you're doing

[maiden hearth]

It’s nice but there’s better use of a skill point

Impo

[modest hatch]

It's excellent in PVE as solo bard as you can maintain pensive and menacing.

[zealous hatch]

GL to your parties mana doing that

[modest hatch]

Even with duo bard, you don't need pensive up 100% of the time, so being able to run pensive and gleeful whilst one does crescendo menacing works

[modest hatch]

I've had no issue with mana twisting it with mana saga.

Occasionally you'll need to sit in it a little longer, but it's absolutely doable.

[maiden hearth]

Mana saga is honestly pog, I love that change.

The previous blue saga was dog

[zealous hatch]

i dont even run with pensive if i have mana saga

i just do mana saga with menacing

[modest hatch]

I think it's just hegemony and laziness

[zealous hatch]

still not using counterpoint lol.

[modest hatch]

People aren't using it because people aren't using it

[modest hatch]

I found that not enough on the regen as solo bard. Could be gear though.

[maiden hearth]

I mean, if you’re in forge and you’re leve 18 and the rest of the party is 5 mages with keen edge on their weapons, then yeah you’ll struggle. But if your party had some kind of common sense, mana saga every minute and a half is enough.

[modest hatch]

It's the rangers that get thirsty lol

[maiden hearth]

That too Lol

[zealous hatch]

people aren't using it cause the UI doesn't support it. If you get interrupted the whole thing messes up. It also doesnt help because if you want to spend to regen mana and you are locked into building meanacing melody it punishes you

[modest hatch]

The only song it's worth having crescendo for is menacing imo

that 5% matters

But you don't need someone on pensive 100% of the time

[zealous hatch]

tell your group to cleave with a melee weapon. You will regen your entire bar within seconds.

[modest hatch]

So better to twist in cathartic/cheerful*

[maiden hearth]

Honestly Crescendo Cheerful is pretty pog

Because even in a raid, if you give it to your cleric that’s an extra 33% on his raid wide heals

[modest hatch]

For sure. Point is it's situational Imo. Depends on your comp.

[zealous hatch]

and personally I do not PvE build

because we are always pvping

[maiden hearth]

I’m always switching weapons and skills around depending on situation tho

[modest hatch]

I tend to use 1 build I can run for everything.

[zealous hatch]

i switch weapons a lot

[modest hatch]

You sacrifice a couple of things, but it works well in everything.

[craggy grotto]

bard needs like 5 more skill points. im tired of respeccing 20 times

[maiden hearth]

I mean, even songs, I only have 2 points reserved for songs and I will spec out, like menacing/cheerful/pensive/epic

And of course, themes too

[modest hatch]

Imo, the improvement would be to have 2 song slots and 2 theme slots. You can only have 2 of each but you can swap them at will.

[zealous hatch]

my suggestion for counterpoint would to be it gives you 2 melodies active at once and also allows you to have both resonance effects. at reduced scaling,

[modest hatch]

Otherise once costed respecs come in it could be easy to have redundancy with multiple bards

[maiden hearth]

This would be good yeah

[zealous hatch]

you get both but they are weaker

[craggy grotto]

ah man. being able to run damage and healing when im playing solo? i think i just got a chub

[modest hatch]

Means less management for sure, but you can't optimise as much.

eg stacking resonance on the off melody to dump in the on.

[zealous hatch]

why less?

[modest hatch]

You'd just kinda brrr with 2 melodies.

I kinda enjoy stacking up to drop into whichever is more needed - although I get people might not enjoy the micro.

[zealous hatch]

i think you are the only person that enjoys counterpoint lol

[modest hatch]

🤷‍♂️

[zealous hatch]

ive been playing bard for almost a year and I dont know a single one who likes it

[craggy grotto]

isnt it like 20 seconds inbetween songs when u run that?

[modest hatch]

Bout that. Time it takes for the channel.

[zealous hatch]

yes

and ues

yes*

[craggy grotto]

spending 20 seconds to stack resonance to dump it in 3

doesnt sound very efficient lol

[modest hatch]

Not quite, you'd still dump in the first half

[zealous hatch]

could also just take away the cast time too

if they got rid of the cast time and kept it as is. I would be fine with it,

and created ACTUAL UI for it

[modest hatch]

I was thinking this - if you could just swap at will to maintain you could control your resonance stacks 100% of the time.

[craggy grotto]

yee, if u could just freely swap between the 2 instantly, itd feel a lot better

[zealous hatch]

Yup

ok thats the fix

[modest hatch]

I think this would be a bit more engaging than just having both resonance active.

[zealous hatch]

yeeeah but if you know me I dont fuck with how bard is designed at all

if you havent read my thread you should

[modest hatch]

link meh

[craggy grotto]

can u link it?

after playing a few classes last phase, i feel like bard is one of the best designed ones lol

[zealous hatch]

not if you are an actual musican lol

[craggy grotto]

well yea. idk about that. im just speaking from how classes feel to play lol

[zealous hatch]

reso weap does not feel good to play

[modest hatch]

I can kinda agree here. It encourages you to waste abilities to gen stacks

Rather than holding them for more appropriate use.

[zealous hatch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/1kftxbd/bard_revamp_idea_from_a_2000_time_played_bard/

enjoy

bucky liked this himself too

he knows i cooked

wrong link 1 sec

[past whale]

Counterpoint is BIS (lore wise) but def not the best option

I wanna song weave. Songs should be baseline as well as counterpoint. Separate talent to make it more effective

[zealous hatch]

yeah A good change would to be removing the cast time if you take counterpoint

id use it myself at that point

[modest hatch]

I think it's situational. The are some scenarios where it's better, but the majority of the time crescendo is, so easier to just sit in that.

[past whale]

Weaving songs way more skillful and fun imo than sitting in one song forever. I just wish it was good lol. Or at least let counterpoint give you perks of both resonates

Counterpoint lets you use 2 songs and 2 resonates but maybe the resonate procs aren’t as strong compared to if you only used one song I guess could be a balance point

[zealous hatch]

that was my idea too

[maiden hearth]

Song weaving is just such a huge class fantasy

It feels so good too

[past whale]

I WANNA PLAY GUITAR HERO ON THIS CLASS

[maiden hearth]

Never forget

2008 April 1st

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs when?

[twilit haven]

Tank does feel a bit unloved, needs a bit of juicing up. It was one of the first classes "finished" so hopefully will get a polish soon.

[spiral grove]

Thanks for agreeing!

I think so too :)

can't wait for the rework.

[twilit haven]

I pretty much only play as Tank in MMOs so very much invested in its improvement. Also excited to see how archetypes will improve it, love paladin style tanking other games.

[manic wasp]

It needs to feel more like weaving in Dark Age of Camelot.

[bitter drift]

Is "added lightning/ice/fire damage" any good for a mage? it only applies to auto attacks and their procs correct? Does not apply to casted spells right?

[high totem]

I mean it really depends on how much it adds to your autos. It does not affect spells. I believe it uses a rating system right? Very hard to decipher how much it’s actually adding unless you’re scraping the combat log

Also depends on what stat you’re replacing for the additive damage.

[craggy grotto]

Your character sheet tells u how much damage it’s adding

And the additive numbers are separate from ur base auto

[sinful bluff]

additive dmg only applies to auto attacks however there also a rare stat of fire dmg bonus which i beleive does flat bonus to your spells havant tested cause only played rangers and rogues but that what it look like in paper doll stats

this one effect fire spells (Doesnt effect fire additive dmg)

[glad cloak]

It does too little I believe

[sinful bluff]

the food gave like +27 or something in paper doll stats but was on a ranger so no fire spell to see what it did i was curious if it affected additive dmg in Phase 2 which i can comfirm it doesnt

so im assuming it be a flat +27 dmg on fire related spells

but that was pre stat changes too

cant buy the food anymore so harder to check 😛

[green charm]

coming april 24th

[spiral grove]

Try again

[languid bronze]

We got to consider we're talking about stats being "too much" or "too little" on level 20 gear out of 50. In the grand scheme of things it will probably look fine.

[zinc sierra]

we're giving feedback on what we have tho

[languid bronze]

Yes.

[lyric cedar]

Is there a detailed ranger armor and weapon progression / Location to get - guide?

I have seen a few general guides but nothing detailed with all info needed. This would include mixing heavy/light if medium not available.

[bright current]

You guys gotta be trolling right? FYI, tank has already been reworked twice, and with multiple stealth updates that was not included in patch notes, tank does not need any buffs lmao

[twilit haven]

Reworked twice? Then they need to do it again, but better. Changing grit was a dick move

[vale saffron]

People seem to have a very loose definition of what "reworked" means Changing a few spells here and there really does not constitute a rework

[bright current]

I mean i’m assuming rework is rework when intrepid says it’s reworked.. but keep coping lmao

[wary sandal]

Has anything been mentioned about fixing mend on cleric to work with cast a mouse over targets?

[onyx tulip]

the problem is more so that if it scales this aggressively in some cases cough rogues cough then adjustments are definitely needed.

those damn 600+ power rogues critting for over 3k

[soft scarab]

No, roll a different class, can always make an alt/new main of the archetype you played last phase if you feel yourself missing it

[dusky forge]

youre cope

[royal flume]

ok, so what about in group pvp when they cant engage? then it becomes you should not play the class at all or what if you "tone it down" ?

from what i have seen its not that there is lack of sustain in the current version of the game ;d and yeah of course if its solo whole ohter disscusion but as read the game is balanced about group play not solo

[whole swallow]

Does resonate not work with spellbow or great spellsword anymore?

[craggy grotto]

It does

[whole swallow]

I am using forsaken blade long spellbow and it never works

[unkempt badger]

@signal flame check dms pls

[ember bridge]

how do the Arvchtypes work new here

[zinc sierra]

When counterspell/silence for mage ?

ty

[ionic plume]

Archtypes (putting two classes together) isnt out yet so no one really knows beyond what you can read in the wiki

[zinc sierra]

The word are reversed but yes that

[agile saddle]

Two archetypes together make a class

[onyx tulip]

Define group pvp we got 8 man kill squads running around murdering other kill squads and rogues are playing intelligently around spacing and picking off outta position players lol. Rogues are not quite the squishy nonfactors you think they are of course the more player count increases in the size of conflict that changes the dynamic a bit to favor more ranged as it does with any mmo lol.

When the rogue can catch a healer in a stun and effectively one shot them before they can even react its a balance issue lol.

like i think the funniest one i saw was a rogue catch a cleric and crit them for 3800 and the poor guy literally disappeared lol

Don't get me wrong i think the rogues kit is fantastic and the overall design philosophy around alot of the classes are great I just think itemization and maybe some of the ability scaling on damage ratios might need a touch of love lol.

rogues TTK compared to other classes is pretty obnoxiously one sided.

to be expected though new classes either always come out overtuned or undertuned there never perfect lol.

[umbral seal]

@onyx tulip lol. lol. lol. lol. lol. lol. lol.

😂

[clear adder]

Rogue shits on people even in big confrontations

People very much underestimate the amount of utility they have, and how much burst they realistically can put out

[flat shuttle]

This is such a niche topic.
If you're a shit rogue you'll be shit in almost any scenario.
If you have eyeballs and even some capability to press buttons you'll be fine.
Rogues kit is amazing and lots of it are under thought about in large scale.

[clear adder]

It’s easier for a rogue to be decent because of their kit. It’s also easier to be complete garbage.

[glad cloak]

Or we can do 2x raining death for 400% weapon damage to the entire raid and apply 4 wounds stacks to the people in the 40m cast range aoe root

[flat shuttle]

Also super easy for a rogue to make a detrimental misplay.
Know how many rogues I see engage with shadow step, blow both advantages and then have to eat a full combo?

[clear adder]

Never engage with shadowstep. Movement cooldowns to disengage, never engage

[flat shuttle]

I see it so much, on YouTube shorts, in small duels..
Same kind of people that don't take the backstab feint reset.
Rip.

[clear adder]

My biggest guilty pleasure with rogues in the sieges is jumping down into the main group, dumping caltrops, smoke bomb, and cloak, and shadow dash and step out

Because there’s nothing they can do about it

Can’t kill me with 80% melee and magic evasion, and you”ll take so much god damn damage chasing with caltrops

[flat shuttle]

Its a lot of fun.
We were contesting hawk bow last week.
Did that exact thing.
It was numbers galore.

[clear adder]

Half the time I’m out of the group before people react

And when they do react, they chase after me and get out of position, then die to the raid

[flat shuttle]

Caltrops secretly slept on.

[clear adder]

It used to be a lot stronger

[flat shuttle]

Please big raid zerg, move as a unit. Us rogues will love it.

[clear adder]

Part of the reason I think anyone who picks the toolbelt that gives you stealth stuff needs to have a brain scan

You’re telling me you had the option of 2 charges on ALL of that juicy goodness, and you picked being able to use SOME of it in stealth?

[flat shuttle]

Ikr. Like come on.

[bright current]

Damn yall just ain’t know the tech huh

[clear adder]

I know exactly what it does.

Absolutely nothing.

[bright current]

Im sure you do 🙂

[clear adder]

The entire reason you use those skills is to engage

If you’re hiding in stealth, you’re not engaging

[bright current]

🙂

[umbral seal]

My biggest gripe with rogue is ability delays after autoattacks. Fighter doesn't have this, no idea why rogue does.

Ticks me off

[clear adder]

I think it’s a bug with the whole combo not being interrupted thing

[glad cloak]

I just think the smile emoji is under used, I don’t actually play or know rogue much

I’ve converted from fighter to ranger to bard now

Very brief cleric at 16, and some 14 tank

[flat shuttle]

I don't know the tech.
But I sure as fuck like having two smoke bombs and 2 charges of poison.

[bright current]

I do as well

[glad cloak]

I hear the poisons are pretty meh

[flat shuttle]

Can dead ass kite a fighter as a rogue and let poisons kill them.

[bright current]

Poisons are op

[glad cloak]

Also I tried it briefly, why can’t you stealth near unflagged people

[flat shuttle]

Cause you can pick their pockets.
Duh.

[glad cloak]

Not the damage poison but the other ones. That the mana one was ok but that was it

[flat shuttle]

All the different poisons apply a poison alongside an additional effect.

[umbral seal]

What's funny in terms of pve. Fighters used to have infinite mana and then their leech got nerfed abit. Now rogue mana poison = infinite mana.

[flat shuttle]

Tanks love it when you drain their mana.

[glad cloak]

I’m still torn on the whole mana dealio. Where bards are locked in to restoring, and some classes can dump it super fast. And now we have active mana draining rogues. It’s like we have:

1. hp bar war
2. Debuff war of cast speed, weakening, evasion buffs, wounds etc.
3. Mana war of out sustain and drain

[flat shuttle]

That's why the game is balanced balanced more off of large scale combat.

[glass onyx]

Any Appr. Jeweler here, what did you craft to level?
Im figuring crafting Ruby Necks

[versed viper]

silence poison sounds like a toxic, OP broken idea lol wtf

[spiral grove]

?

[spiral grove]

W Talents.

Tank buffed yet? Reworked?

[bright current]

Why are you pinging me

[spiral grove]

Oh just how you were saying tanks not needing a buff 😂

[bright current]

Still confused, that doesn’t answer my question.. Are you wanting to engage in discourse.. or what? Tanks are currently one of the strongest classes in both 1v1, small scale, and large scale engagements, providing multiple layers of both passive and active mitigation for both themselves and the group, along with more than optimal damage output with auto-crits (allowing mega crit-damage stacking (200%+)), have excellent mobility (especially when utilizing movement based on teammates), and exceptional crowd control + positional control…

[vale saffron]

But are they fun to play

[bright current]

It has been “reworked” (Intrepid’s own wording) (twice last phase) to be easier to play (utilization of courage, grit changes, etc (much to some people’s dissent)) so when people say “tank buff” it provides little to no value when you actually don’t bring up how or where the changes could be made. I’m sure you can ask many of the top level tanks, who actually participate in pvp, they enjoy the gameplay…

[vale saffron]

I could make an archetype that with a sinlge button press One shots every enemy while healing every ally to full while also teleporting me wherever I want and giving me cc immunity, that's giga strong, but not fun

[bright current]

But the statements were “tank buff” no?

[shell pendant]

Chilling poison is pretty worthless it applies too quickly it drs on them

[vale saffron]

I don't know whether Tank should be buffed or not, but I do think it's most in need of a genuine "rework"

Then Ranger

Then Cleric or Fighter (interchangeable), then Mage

[bright current]

Yeah chilling is really only good in small scale or 1v1 (assassination type engagements with chilling death or whatever the freeze is called) imo

As you cant bomb and freeze because of the minimum range on death mark, so chilling poison is your only (reliable) option

[shell pendant]

Draining would be better even then

[bright current]

I agree, some people just like the freeze engage, its a fun playstyle

[shell pendant]

I tried using chilling solo grinding and it's still worthless

[bright current]

Draining is just too good, 1:1 damage:mana is just way too strong

[bright current]

Yeah, esp for grinding, draining stacks faster (every auto/ability/tick) than the other poisons, but withering is decent defensively to help your tank

[umbral seal]

fuck the tank 😂

[sinful bluff]

withering good if your clerics like to play a little offensively too with the chain promoting weaken to root

[reef rain]

[versed viper]

What rework does Cleric need? Haven’t played in a few months.

[versed viper]

Every Cleric should be using our offensive skills when not healing

[distant cedar]

as a low (8) level cleric, playing 50/50 solo and grouped, what weapon types should I be using - i.e. book, wand, bow (phys or magic) etc?

[versed viper]

I prefer wand focus in ranged slot personally

Melee I’m not hitting in melee so like mace focus usually for stats

Book I don’t like the slower basic attack and it’s AoE which pulls stuff you don’t want

[distant cedar]

thanks

[versed viper]

Some ppl like bow I don’t

Playstyle differences

Either way yes to magic version if you do

[distant cedar]

yeah I was looking for a magic shortbow at first, but just at surplus vendor and they don't have one

[versed viper]

Hopefully you can find one on a marketplace

[hard kelp]

nerds i need some advice 🙂

Rangers… longbow or shortbow and why.

Daggers or Greatsword and why…

[runic ore]

imo, biggest statstick for ability scaling. But if you auto a lot shortbow might be better dps

[sinful bluff]

Most people use longbow but then you feel like ur playing a mage as a side effect

[umbral seal]

Real Stealth btw

[umbral seal]

Mana poison arrow trail... lol

Withering arrow trail.

damn, wand finishers look good now

[languid bronze]

People aren't exactly asking for Tank buffs as much as Tank rework. Except some select few people.

It has one of the lowest amount of available skills to choose from and a few of the skills are downright unusable unless you intend to die.

One of the rework saw Grit go from usable to have it quite literally taken off the bar. It's back to being very usable and nice, which is obviously good.

In short, Tank needs an update (as does Cleric and arguably Fighter) but all of that is confirmed to be pushed back until Summoner is out.

[charred seal]

I think they could give tanks just a little more self healing. Tanks should be very survivable, but as tough as they are, without much healing it is difficult to make them tough without making them invincible.

[high matrix]

I want my whip back on cleric

[high matrix]

There's a balance between tanks self heals and clerics. You don't want to make it so clerics are useless

[charred seal]

Not THAT much healing!

[high matrix]

Also having cleric secondary would probably give self heals

[languid bronze]

On the other hand it snowballs hard when you start getting a bit of lifesteal. Maybe a Skill that sacrifices Courage for some short term lifesteal would be nice, though.

[green charm]

they just need to make it more interactive, currently there's no variation in how you play tank

[high matrix]

The secondaries you are supposed to get at 25 aren't in yet and that is what will bring in variation

[green charm]

fix ground pound so it sends people into space

it was supposed to get a rework on 24 april

[charred seal]

Well tank/cleric is a paladin so I would hope that would be serious healing, but I think a moderate HOT or something wouldn't be OP. My experience with tank was that it was quite squishy solo, which seemed a little ironic. It took you a bit longer to die, but at about half health, you could see the writing on the wall.

[high matrix]

They have said any cleric secondary will not be able to heal others only cleric mains can just like tank secondaries won't have taunt

[green charm]

self healing is so toxic

[high matrix]

Honestly I'm not going to fully judge a classes kit until secondaries are in since they will change things enough

[high matrix]

Keep the Trinity alive

[green charm]

agree

[charred seal]

I am always a healer, so I am not advocating making myself redundant, I'm just saying we have one tank class, we need people to play it.

[green charm]

steven doesn't like tanks

[charred seal]

LOL - not sure that should be a consideration, but good to know.

[languid bronze]

Stomp, Jump, sit back and wait for the Courage to build and tap Grit, sit back and wait for the Courage to build and unload Ground Pound and Slam as needed, repeat process

Oversimplified, but not by a lot >.>

[languid bronze]

Wait until you hear about Bards

[high matrix]

They should go back to being mana batteries xD

[languid bronze]

I find Bards one of the best support classes I've seen.

But I think we can have self-healing for archetypes without breaking the game

[high matrix]

I agree they did amazing on Bard. They just should scale up other classes to be like it

[languid bronze]

and remember, 1-3 star mobs are still supposed to do some 10-15% more damage than they are currently doing as well. we have an ad hoc solution at the moment because of gear issues because of the problematic artisan/crafting situation

[glass onyx]

8 summoners be meta cope

[green charm]

when's the ranger buff

[silk dirge]

When an item has just power on it, and not phys/magical just power. Is it universal then?

Or just typo and should be bug report?

[sonic compass]

i think its phys then not universal - but still not sure 🙂

if its universal they need to reword it - so make a bug for it

[green charm]

it's universal

phys magic and healing

[sonic compass]

ty ill test then

[blazing bobcat]

If it's not mentionned (work with the other stats too like accuracy or Crit) then it is for both Physical and Magical

[rigid hamlet]

So is the current meta just running 3 clerics and 2 bards per party and never die in the ttk cause there is no proper anti heal debuff?

I'm seeing a lot of groups stacking supports

[neon hawk]

I mean melee is a liability at this point with with gear being so difficult to get

[glad cloak]

If you don’t die you can’t lose

Cleric has multiple 500-1000% magic power scaling skills. Bards are mechanically OP.

When people don’t get one shot, stat checks are strong

Also melee does nothing when everyone is in the air by jumping with bard gravity

Tbf - other than bard being strong a coordinated dps heavy group should pop the other team. But there’s maybe 30-50 people on the whole server who do that criteria. Overheal is much easier

[ruby pebble]

It is tiring waiting for them to fix archetypes that have had issues since phase 2 I get that it's alpha, but

If your chosen class feels useless in most content or not allowed in said content then those players are less likely to stick around and offer useful feedback which leads to less useful data outside of hey 40 percent of players are bards, and mages, and 2 percent are fighters It also gets much harder to fix a class as development gets further along and that archetype continues to get ignored. Fact that melee (ignoring tank) is as weak as it is in the meta and GvG is really bad for The game especially being it's the most popular fantasy archetype out there in MMO. And the only reason why tank is meta is because of its utility of being able to LOS provide disrupts and that their only identity is build health

Fighters for example, have no utility while rangers can not only deal more damage, but can do so safely from a distance and offer AOE roots,Cc and a party wide buffs. In most pvp MMOs melees often deal insane burst damage while having some kind of AOE CC to give them a reason to go in. Meanwhile the ranged classes are the ones doing this safely from a distance. Don't get me wrong fighters fun to use and their skills outside of cata,kick and lunge feel good to use but they lack a role and purpose They don't match the burst damage of Mages and rangers, the utility of Bards and tanks , or the survivability of Tanks and clerics

[ruby pebble]

Does @mighty nimbus read the chat

Like archetype chat in general

[exotic raptor]

Fighters have no utility? Have you read the stances? With proper stance dancing the fighter can use multiple debuffs depending on the situation. Now that it doesn't get one shot like a wet napkin it feels a lot more useful in a fight then it did. Can it one shot people, of course not. It in most cases will not do more damage then other dps but it is a heck of a lot more durable.

[ruby pebble]

Your kidding right have you actually done any competitive content?

First off the debuffs they apply all other classes are capable of applying secondly most of the time fighters are forced into staying in form of celerity so they can try to have some consistent CC and switching to their other form for attack speed for whirlwind their 3rd form is useless and evasion for fighter is t working properly atm. And nothing you said is group utility applying bleed isn't a utility that helps group, applying stagger isn't a utility that helps.

AOE knock down is, AOE root is, increasing everyone's damage is,etc

It being slightly more durable doesn't make it more useful when other classes do what it does but better

And it's obvious to anyone who gets and does competitive content especially being when the top high end guilds on the server are not allowing that class into their main guilds

As someone said earlier, having melee in your group is a liability

Not including tank

[exotic raptor]

Yeah cry more I guess. I was running fighter when we were getting one shot by firebolts. Why even use whirlwind? Cata is a large AOE knockdown if setup with stagger and proc's large damage combined with a mage mass freeze but yeah sure

People have always hated on the fighter. It's not designed to be some over the top class. It is designed to be a more straightforward lower skill ceiling class. A skilled player can get more out of another class than a fighter yes. The bar to entry however is much lower for a competent fighter than it is for other classes such as a decent bard or rogue.

[ruby pebble]

You're not setting up a staggeer knock down with cata 😂 in GVG lmfao

It's a 2 second cast time at 94 percent attack speed and that would require you to leap to AOE stagger which is 1.2 seconds and then cata, and assuming a ranger roots and no one interupts your CC and no one uses a cc breaker 😂 😂😂

[exotic raptor]

only if your trying to setup everything yourself

[ruby pebble]

I'm telling you it's not happening unless your fighting some guild that is so bad they can't dodge roll or press buttons

Rangers root alone is 4 seconds

1.2 cast time for leap
2 second cast time for cata

This isn't even including the time it takes for you to get to your location that you leaped to

And this is assuming you have 94 percent attack speed

[exotic raptor]

94% att speed is for power chasers using a GS and LB. Gotta rock some speed

[ruby pebble]

Please do me a favor go and join a competitive guild and do actual content before talking about class balancing

[exotic raptor]

If thats your thing then got for it. With the dr there is no reason to power chase

No thanks I dont need or want to be some sweetlord. I've done content without. Without needing to be in the best gear or spend my life here without touching grass. You know what? Still win fights. Theres your sign

[ruby pebble]

No one said fighter isn't winning fights their decent on 1 vs 1 and small scale but in gvg and raids their a liability

And the entirety of this game is balanced around large scale, even your loot drop chance increases for being in raids and that's PVE

Your sitting here not even doing competitive content that matters, talking about how good fighter can be in large scale and groups and you don't even participate in it is actual brain rot

[exotic raptor]

I said nothing about fighter in large scale raid content, only you did.

https://tenor.com/view/cope-harder-cope-sir-cope-sir-american-psycho-gif-26276799

[ruby pebble]

That was the entirety of this discussion was their lack of utility in group content and GvG

And them being a liability

[dire sorrel]

https://tenor.com/ejeaKBVngaF.gif

[ruby pebble]

Nothing against folk but I don't give builds outside of guild

I will say I do have 6.2k HP 200 power, 94 percent attack speed and 40 percent crit chance

LMFAO 🤣

[craggy grotto]

Quit helping the zergling shitters 😡

[glad cloak]

also if mitigation is some magic stat that makes melee work, then its not like its melee exclusive.

[ruby pebble]

One of my multiple points right here.

[maiden hearth]

Physical problem, don’t wanna know.

Magic Superiority.

Imagine going into a fantasy game to use a sword that you can just do irl.

[ruby pebble]

Sorry I don't live in London can't get the EU hack and slash experience

[bright current]

wait till you realize healing dots scale off HP pool LMAO

[cobalt birch]

you are a alpha tester, complaining, that how you build your character is from your point of view a liability but also dont want to share your build so it can be checked or improved? Developers are no mages and have their fixed projects they are working on and also competetive gaming in an alpha is not real... you want it to be competetive but for that you have to wait for the release or at least beta

also the dual classes will come and bring a big change to all classes, so just wait and there sure will be some classes with fighter combination that will be pretty dope 🙂

[glad cloak]

Gearing as magic power is the problem spellcasters have to deal with

[random blaze]

In a PVE perspective fighter is my favorite for solo. Nothing I cannot accomplish the same or better than any other solo pve class IMO except sneak into forbidden areas without a fight. As a healer in group pve I would take rangers over any other classes 24/7. They range, high dps and I can focus my healing on the tank whereas fighters require to much healing and people die. Perhaps if fighters had a taunt and could off tank I would change my mind. I would skip rogue's too as a healer for similar reason even though they have dps. IMO as I go by what I see as a healer and am not a numbers player.

[glad cloak]

Enjoyment is like;
Fighter>ranger>cleric>rogue>tank>mage=bard
would be my guess. I really only know bard, fighter, and ranger, but played all a bit

Strength in zvz be like;
Cleric>Bard>>mage>ranger>>tank>rogue>>>>fighter
is my guess

[maiden hearth]

Enjoyment is
Bard > all

Strength in ZvZ is
Cleric > all

Make a raid of 40 clerics, never lose.

[glad cloak]

I think 40 clerics would lose to 10 clerics, 6 bards, and 20 rogues. 4 rangers
would be a mana drain war

I think bard is mechanically very strong but its not as enjoyable.
Ranger is somehow pretty enjoyable despite having like 6 skills that are '200% damage and you shoot an arrow'

[maiden hearth]

Nah, 40 divine flares will crash everyone’s PCs, it’ll always end in a tie. Never lose.

[glad cloak]

I'd like to see 40 regular players VS 30 aerialists and 10 rogue npcs. The ones from tropics

[ruby pebble]

I've given feed back on this before but a improvement that could be made for fighters biggest issues could be solved with their existing skills already

You could give fighter a short 6m pull that pulls everyone around them and then have a combo where whirlwind trips pulled targets and instantly having 2 fighters is meta just to have someone that can actually beat up raid wipes.

Or instead of you could also have whirl wind start pulling in targets like a vacuum

Have blood infusion heal allies for half the amount you heal your self

Sorry ment for @cobalt birch

[unreal raven]

Wrong chat lol

[ruby pebble]

Even in archeage dark runners and other classes were taken

And in 6.0 blood reaver were meta classes

Archeage also wasn't just zvz it was a very small part of it castles and world bosses was zvz

Archeage had 100 times more content ( yes finished game I know )

Here in ashes the entirety of the gameplay is based around large groups, right down to its looting system.

And when archeage went to the direction of adding in more large scale content it rebalanced all the classes

It's the lack of utility and class identity.

Oh fighter you do damage, yea everyone deals damage and other people deal it better and safer from a distance. Fighters go in and then what? What do they do outside of trying to do damage and getting cc and kited

They don't have any reliable AOE CC,they don't have any group utility and they don't have any group buff. And these are issues that need solutions. I don't think nerfing everyone else is going to fix the issue outside of piss everyone off 😂

[exotic raptor]

This is people still chasing the biggest damage numbers instead of building to suit. Attack speed is a thing and weapon combo finishers / deadly finishers bring a lot to the table.

[agile saddle]

Fighters have the party wide damage increase

[exotic raptor]

As a melee class I dont feel that way, I just need to be more active instead of just standing there hitting something

[ruby pebble]

Melee is basically roleplaying as range 😂

[exotic raptor]

Same with the melee classes just standing in aoe during pve and causing issues for healers. Just need better more aware melee folks

Of course I do. I weave finishers now instead of button smashing

not with 90% attk speed no

[ruby pebble]

Your not weaving a finisher in group pvp that's above 8 man

if Fighter gets a utility for group pvp like whirlwind sucking in targets or a consistent aoe cc they will be in a way better spot because now they would have the capabilities of setting up possible group wipes

[exotic raptor]

I play rogue now, we can weave

I know sad day

[charred warren]

I really hope the zerg meta is just a product of the map being 1/4th the size rn, loved running duo trade runs/fishing. Small scale>Zerg

[ruby pebble]

No sadly

[exotic raptor]

I would be 100% fine with skills like overpower and lethal being able to weave

It would flow well like the current rogue design

[ruby pebble]

Entirety of this game is based and balanced around large scale and actively encourages it Everything outside of questing
And questing is the worst lvling you can do and is almost pointless 😂

[exotic raptor]

I agree however not all skills should weaving such as cata. Things that are hard hitting long CD. Only a few skills should be able to weave such as the skills reset by autos such as overpower

[ruby pebble]

Cata shouldn't have a cast time for what it does

[exotic raptor]

I agree its too long, it shouldn't be instant though

[quick apex]

are clerics always needed like healers in other games?

[ruby pebble]

If it's going to have a cast time make the trip garentereed

Otherwise make it instant

Also make lunge another dash, most useless skill 😂

Who TF designed that and kick

[exotic raptor]

I sadly used this to kill someone when I was testing it. It is really bad for what it is. Funny as all hell though

[limber steppe]

DISASTER world champs

[ruby pebble]

Removing cast time or reducing it to 1 second for cataclysm would fix alot of fighters issues

They would still lack stuff for groups But at least they could reliably AOE knock down after a leap which would be great in group content

[spiral grove]

😂

You guys 🤭 I respect it

[umbral seal]

"Hey fighter/rogue, you're in forge...you play as a ranger or get kicked".... 😬

basically, my experience so far in AoC. Fighters and rouges have a much higher chance to get ignored outside of a guild and when my fighter or rogue does get in any group, my fighter or rogue is the one not dying and doing raid carry dps/cc. 😬

At the end of the day in general or on average, my fighter or rouge is still a ranger regardless of my actual classification.

😬

[umbral seal]

Yea, the more i play rogue....the more i dislike it. The way movement works in-game and the rogue's movement ability iceskatey-ness and ability delay after melee autoattacks doesn't help.

[ionic plume]

IMO for PVE a good fighter/rogue brings more to the group then a good ranger and I'd rather have the fighter/rogue.
BUT a bad fighter/rogue is much heavier to carry then a bad ranger

[limber gust]

what archetypes are under represented?

[maiden hearth]

Summoner.

[ionic plume]

Fighters the most rare it seems

[rustic bear]

there alot, but there realy rare goodones 😄

[glass onyx]

I just realized, when i heal someone i ALWAYS get a stack of refreshing followthroug (deadly finisher)
Just like my mate, when he uses an offensive ability on someone he gets his keen edge

Is that intended?
Cant find anything about abilities triggering finishers

[umbral seal]

Bard punting nova's mobs off the sky bridge in SB hahaha.

[ionic plume]

Yes its intended. Good clerics will weave in weapon finishers to spend their refreshing follow through stacks to keep their mana healthy.. 2 big mana tricks is Flash Cure will NOT interrupt your weapon combo building so its easy to gain/use refreshing following through with that skill and another trick is 2 quick cast for mend straight into procing to weapon finishers will net you more mana gained then spent

[ionic plume]

Refreshing follow through is honestly bis for almost everyone for mid - long term combat.. everyone goes OOM really fast with keen

[glass onyx]

well even with 0 auto attacks i get refreshing followthrough but echo etc isnt proccing so yea attacking is still vital

[ionic plume]

Abilities Proc the buff. Autos attacks SPEND the buff

[glass onyx]

what is spending hre

It reads like a mana over time buff, nothing to spend

[ionic plume]

"all your finishers and extended finishers restore blah"
Aka. you need to get activate your finishers to spend the charge to get the mana

As you cycle through your weapon finishers you can watch the Charges go away and then come back when you cast

[glass onyx]

i read it wrong lol ty

[ionic plume]

Yeah with that and blessed weapon you almost dont need a bard

[glass onyx]

Yea just were HH as a duo fighting some 3 stars and as long as we dont pull 3 pyros i was fine with mana

[brisk garnet]

which class is rn chill to level and test around

[glass onyx]

Bard was the most fun i personally had

[glad cloak]

All the stuff is my own opinion, and I haven’t thoroughly played every class, just 3, with the others halfway.

My enjoyment rating was primarily based off of pve grind after 4 hours. You do a lot of piano playing. Forced to mana bard if you are the only one in your group. You don’t see the impact that you put out since so much of it is mechanical. idk what but something feels off with how skills flow together?

It is fun, I was mostly burnt out of playing 12 hours of guitar hero. Failing to sustain mana because the server wasn’t giving people passive mana regen or ticks from pensive.

Having your melody fall off due to CC is probably the worst thing currently. I’d also like to see which allies have glee in the raid frame. As I currently use it as a “always keep on CD, preemptive hot”. Also I don’t think mez dance lights up if the target is staggered?

Idk if I like the masks and saga system either. What if I want to do accuracy buff, power buff, but I want the uppies saga? What if I want to be a damage bard but we need to run 2x uppies? I’ve only ever used 3 of the sagas even though there are like 8 options

I think it’s intentional that you can’t swap between full healing and full damage masks quickly though

[clear adder]

Pretty much only class I haven’t played extensively is bard. Mostly because I’m not interested in concert simulator 2025

[glad cloak]

I feel like people care more about the artisan and crafting than the classes. Except the people who do a lot of PvP

[versed viper]

if you have the mana weapon buff on another player their attacks trigger it iirc

[runic crescent]

Does anyone happen to have some google sheet with ranger gear to look for?

[spiral grove]

Tank buffed yet?

[glass onyx]

how does tank need a buff

[maiden hearth]

Summoner when

[lime leaf]

do most power archers go long or short bow?

[versed viper]

August right?

[maiden hearth]

They said it'd be before P3, no?
My understanding is "We can select it to level up along with everyone else in P3"
I assume we're going to be testing it a bit in P2.5 before it "genuine" releases in P3....
Right...?
Right???

[versed viper]

oh maybe I can't remember

[rigid hamlet]

Vine field the class buff when

[glass onyx]

Yes just like rogue released before 2.5
I would assume late July

2 weeks prior to P3 is my guess

[bitter wraith]

Any good guides out there (written or not) on the actual ‘how to’ tank? Everything I’ve found is just some variation of “here are you skills. Pick these. Here’s what your skills do.” Which is nice, but I can already read tooltips.

It’s the fundamentals of AoC tanking that I need to learn, not just a video rereading the stuff the game tells you when you mouse over a skill.

Like currently solo leveling I tend to blow my damage ability load till enemy dead, but I feel I’d be running out of mana too often and making the group wait on me more than they should. Which makes me wonder, In a group setting, How conservative should I be with my abilities/mana/courage? Should I be using my damage abilities on cooldown to kill kill kill faster, or should I be holding onto them and using them for threat generation/pulling/interrupt/stagger/snare/whatever additional utility some of the attacks have, and leaving most of the damage to the dps? How many mobs should I generally pull, how do I know when to stop pulling or when the rest of the group or me needs a break between pulls, what’s the etiquette when tanking, ect.

I should specify I’m not asking anyone here to answer all that, that’s just the kinda stuff I’m looking for in a guide, if there’s no good ones out there just lemme know and I’ll go ask some tanks for a few tips in game + trial by fire it.

I got chronic ffxiv tank brain, all I know is hit stance, collect the 2-3 handfuls of new pals, faceplant wall, hit damage buttons on cooldown mostly, and hit take-less-damage button when other take-less-damage button wears off until new pals dead, repeat. It has crippled me irreversibly. It’s terminal.

[proper hearth]

arent you rogue player?

[spiral grove]

Both

[proper hearth]

go play bard

you can tank infinite damage during nimble dance

[spiral grove]

Nty

I don't want to be a dancing clown

[tulip grotto]

Tank just needs it's glitched abilities to actually work then it will be fine

[languid bronze]

You need to let full weapon combos go through between bursting a few abilities (for Courage).

[river eagle]

Does anyone have a tank guide? I leveled all classes to at least 10 and out of all of them Tank feels super underpowered comparatively. It is good in a group - and even then I take a ton of dmg - but outside it, it is a bit.....I can't place my finger on it.

Cleric can solo super easy since you can outheal most dmg. Ranger does good enough dmg and can kite for days with the snares. Bard has both snares and heals to solo. Rogue does good enough dmg and has ability to get away if things hit the fan. Fighter has some mana issues - at least I do so far but still has good enough dmg and reset able trip that can keep mobs locked down for most part.

[umbral seal]

maybe if you leveled above 10 you'd see more of each class

fighter gets life and mana leech at like 11 or 12

it changes the entire archetype

[river eagle]

Yeah, I am sure it gets good - I am just noticing the difference between tank and all other classes - maybe it all changes after certain level threshold - just the tank for me feels the most clunkiest to play from 1 to 10. I guess that is mitigated by the fact that most groups just want/need tank.

[final hound]

dont see "summoner when ? " 😄

[river eagle]

at this point - "full class system" when? 😆

[final hound]

must wait for ballance bard becose he is too strong in pvp 😄

[river eagle]

Never fought a bard but I can see it being pretty good at duels. Sustain, knockback, dodges and sprints.

[final hound]

yes he is supersaiyan 😄 i love to play him , 2 month ago i deff many caravans with him 😄

[river eagle]

Also, we have no idea how end result of the mix class system will work anyhow hehe. All we have so far is just the names of archetype mixes. No idea if they will mix skills or passives or there will be new skill trees and skills inlocked based on the blend - like in Shadowbane. It is all a guess hehe.

[final hound]

still hoping for my jinwoo style - thief summoner 😄 or summoer thief ? 😄

[versed viper]

it really shouldn't be. Classes like this are typically not very powerful solo but great in groups. Steven used to say they were a "force multiplier" and when balanced properly it works well. Reminds me of Chanter in Aion - wasn't great solo and had to work hard if you did, but really valuable in groups. Hopefully they can find that balance for Bard.

[final hound]

nah ... just need to buff other based on bard , becose i played him a lot and for soling there is only one build and that is focused on resonance on dmg melody and autoatacks procs otherway is unplayable solo ...

[river eagle]

I kind of hope for Mage/Rogue shadowbane style where you would become Mage Assassin. Where you woudl acquire few unique skills like ice blades where you can shoot ice bolts that can backstab and hit often from medium range. Life veil where you could cast a veil on a target that would prevent healing for 30 sec. and of course you could stealth.

[river eagle]

On my lowbie lvl 12 bard, I was surprised how easy it was to solo some lvl 20 mobs, not all. With kiting and auto attacks. Same on the cleric.

[final hound]

if its animals its ok otherwise iam doing somethink wrong on bard 😄 😅

[river eagle]

Most mobs that don't have leaps or don't cast fast ranged attacks. If it is an occasional leap or occasional rib toss or large attack - you can just dodge that.

[glad cloak]

I don’t know of many people who make guides above surface level skill reading and say push buttons outside of guilds

[river eagle]

True

[tender saffron]

Any thoughts on Armour/gear sets/BIS to look for ffor a Ranger lvl 20+?

That's sensible of course - not "500gp" madness 🙂

[ionic plume]

Game is far from being designed with a solo player in mind and tank highlights that well. Group based class for a group based game

[river eagle]

That would be a great answer if all other classes weren't very good at soloing, which they are. Also, what is a slow player in the context of your sentence? And why is this game far from being designed for such a player?

[ionic plume]

Typo meant to be Solo player

While classes CAN solo the dev team isnt designing the game for solo play to be a viable option.. they are designing a multiplayer game where the viable options of play are with other people. Theres not really a good reason for them focus on making tank viable in solo play

So if you wanna play solo will just have to settle with tank not being a good option

[ionic plume]

Stand corrected 🫡

Still IMO tank being a good solo class/go to choice is silly

[obsidian fable]

it'll definitely be the worst lol - at least clerics can heal themselves back to full, tanks just have the opportunity to take more damage before needing a heal

[charred seal]

I think solo play has to be a viable option for PvE and levelling. I don't see any upside in not enabling it.

[ionic plume]

I would agree.. its just besides that picture plastic posted its seems like they have no drive to push things to be better for solo to small groups.. everything requires so much interaction with a large population to get anything substantial done. Being in a tiny guild it feels like we are missing half the game by not being in with the zergs

[sinful bluff]

game technically already ticks this box 😛 you can technically solo level from gathering and commision boards alone is slow yes incredably is it viable yeah :p

[umbral seal]

Have you guys solo leveled before TTK change, after TTK change and then in 2.5?

Take it from someone who has done 10 level 25s since the last month of p1 and the entirety of p2...this is the absolute worst version of AoC we've gotten for a solo player. Even i don't want to level in 2.5, it's way slower than the last 2 iterations we've gotten but way more importantly is that IT IS SO FKING BORING to do so.

[past radish]

I liked it more when we could ho from event yo event it was funer then staying in one spot like we do now

[limber gust]

is it jsut me or does the fighters spin move feel underwhelming dmage wise, looks dope af though

[soft scarab]

Solo is less viable because of the overcrowded server - the speed is the same if you stick to doing quests and 'easy' things on the way to 10, then once 10 if you can afford a better weapon on top of your sanctus gear, you then go to solo spots.

Problem is, anyone who wants to level probably googled good solo spots and then everyone contests those.

The rich get richer as they train mobs onto each other in forge and carph, while the poor, solo players go about their novice artisans and killin griffins one by one

That being said, its heavily gear dependent and also class dependent. Some classes thrive while others certainly dont

[obsidian fable]

I’d be surprised if anyone could afford any of the level 10 gear posted on the marketplaces I’ve checked as soon as they hit 10

[ionic plume]

https://tenor.com/view/buggy-drifting-amish-gif-24922896

Just gotta do "ethical" caravans

[left canopy]

eta to summoner?

[tulip grotto]

[glass onyx]

not before july is my guess

[glad cloak]

July 24
(I made it up)

[maiden hearth]

20g on July 7th

[glad cloak]

Maybe that’s the intent but I am guessing pushback to 24

Rogue didn’t have any major bugs when it came out right? They’ve just made adjustments to stealth pretty much

[clear adder]

It had weeks on PTR with major bugs

[tulip grotto]

Aug 4th when p3 starts

[clear adder]

And was also delayed a while too

[glad cloak]

I think it would be funny if they shadow dropped summoner and did the official announcement a day or two later

[umbral seal]

and then we get a cluster fk summoner spam crashfest.

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-good-gewd-star-wars-episode-3-gif-15386400457909814305

mounts and summon spam ---> 1 fps in winstead

[upbeat plover]

shadowstep has put me inside rocks a few times this phase, but it hasnt happened for a week or two so maybe it got fixed

[flat shuttle]

100% bug reported like 6 that I've bugged into.

[lament pumice]

I think Acrobat Strike wasn't really working properly. The mobs would spin around with you even though they were supposed to be stuck in place facing the direction they were when you used the ability.

[flat shuttle]

This is fixed now for the most part.

[silk dirge]

Is there any spell shields in game?

[zinc sierra]

Wdym by that ? I know of one shield with magic power

Or used to atleast haven't checked since stat change

[silk dirge]

Haven’t seen any, so was curious ✌️

[zinc sierra]

seems like the one i knew doesnt have mpr anymore but there is 1 :
https://ashescodex.com/db/item/Gear_Weapon_Shield_OH_Tin

[maiden hearth]

Tin Shield pog

[glass onyx]

When i have my tank and an enemy selected, this will ALWAYS use the damage on the enemy.
Is there some hidden setting i cant find to make that prioritize allies?
Or do i have to untarget the enemy to use the actual heal?

[final hound]

I think somethink like that is in targeting settings

[glass onyx]

Im asking because i cant find anything related to that in settings

[ionic plume]

You MUST have an ally member as your PRIMARY target for this to heal

[lone cypress]

yep, with defensive target active, you have to deselect the enemy, target your friend and then start casting
.. cleric rework when

[glass onyx]

So it doesnt work when i have both, an ally and an enemy, sadge

[glass onyx]

damn

[quick path]

It works as intended. Dual targeting system spells that target allies target the ally and spells that target enemies target the enemy as this is an optional spell you have to choose your option. If your already implementing dual targeting in settings it's not that hard to switch priority between the 2 targets already preselected.

Kind of like how you can self select to auto cleave versus switch to priority target for spells.

[glass onyx]

I dont get what you are saying.
How can I choose what my Spell does if I have an Ally and an Enemy targeted at the same time

Tell me the hotkey of "its not that hard to switch priority between the 2 targets"?

Is that the "Hardlock" and "Softlock"?

[glad cloak]

Idk if a way to do what you are asking for. Quick wit does the same but it always goes for tomato with dual targeting I believe. And idk if clerics have a way to specifically offense or heal judgement.

[lone cypress]

There's none, the only way is to move the direct heal to a separate skill, reported that already back in preA2
They could to do it with bard, dunno why it wasn't possible for cleric too.

[naive finch]

My wife started a ranger, she has a skill "Salvo" it won't stop shooting, is this a known bug or did we have something wierd going on?