alpha-two-archetype-chat

[umbral seal]

Summoner when

"nerf it to the ground"

[elfin coyote]

nerf summoner too, aint even out yet i hate it already

[green charm]

not a single ranger in the game can snipe for 12k

[umbral seal]

oh yea, you're right but can their snipe still 1 shot a 4k, 5k healthpool so my point still kinda stands.

[green charm]

yeah but it's kinda shit compared to what other classes can do

3 second channel from the low low range of 35m

to maybe deal 5k damage if the person doesn't roll or shield or anything

[umbral seal]

you're not wrong but yea it's still not a 1 archatype problem regardless of what's faster or what's not. you are not wrong.

[green charm]

compared to rogue hitting a few buttons and dealing twice that dmg

[umbral seal]

Don't get me wrong, i don't want rogues 1 shotting everything but the whole nerf it to the ground mentality doesn't always fix it. If we nerf the fk outta rogue, bard and mages. We still have archatypes that are 1-2 shotting people regardless.

[green charm]

it's not even the damage that's upsetting

why does rogue get 2x cc breaks, a trip that knocks you out of dodge roll

and a 1 button silence

[umbral seal]

yea true

[green charm]

8 seconds 100% attack speed reduction

[umbral seal]

as a fighter main

my trip went to rogue

i mad

[green charm]

sleep darts to reset and do it all again

[umbral seal]

Whoever created rogue surely loves rogue. Rogue main in WoW i bet. 😆

[umbral seal]

i actually choked abit when i saw this for the first time

[green charm]

it's beyond a joke

bucky smoking that crack cocaine while he designed this one

[ember lantern]

i'm noticing this concept. that a lot of the tradition base arch types are just WoW clones atm. which is extremely disappointing for an ambitious mmorpg.

[silver cliff]

ah yall complaining about what makes rogue a rogue... where have i heard that one before. People are still pissed at rogue in wow classic/retail till this day, but everyone dealt with it. Lets find out how good rogues are in largescale when casters stay aoe beaming everyone for 10x the dps.

Yall want the rogue to start summoning ghosts of themselves? or cast self buffs? i dont get it. what do you want exactly? add cc immunity to fighters? never die?

[green charm]

pipe down chimp

[wintry portal]

Animal names aren't nice

[candid briar]

rogue doesnt really have 2 cc breaks, we tested a lot with 2 ppl that swapped to main rogue
their umbral cloak only breaks root and frozen, nothing else
and shadowstep i think its called? does often get used to engage thanks to its range, and faint only having half that range (15m)
but ofc, its just been a single week for rogue, ppl are learning the class still compared to already more than half a year for every other class so far

also imo rogue at this point of their learning curve (1 week into aoc alpha) do feel strong in their niche (super small scae pvp, up until 5 ppl) but their use heavily drops compared to other classes, if you can afford to pick your 8 man roster for 8v8
so for me, playing against rogue, it doesnt seem that broken because we‘d all expect a rogue to be 1v1 king, which is not where the game is balanced around anyways. Its aimed to be more balanced in 8v8‘s and beyond.

(only talking about the abilities, their description and what they do. Not the current TTK, cause you can not balance a class around the current TTK.)

[random blaze]

Wait until we have tested arch types before we start yelling NERF. Everything will change. There are + and - to everything.

[old breach]

engaging with shadowstep is brainlet behavior

either use the grappling hook if you have to use movement to engage or stealth up behind them

[glad cloak]

its weird the rogue skills have a 4m range, but the auto attack range is 6m?

[glacial stone]

Rogue should have infinite stealth 1 min is yikes

[little lark]

I was thinking the same thing, the trade off is we get to stealth while in combat if we can build enough distance. Having to refresh it as someone unallied runs by is the most annoying part and makes the class feel a bit antisocial

Like advantage is a valuable resource for dps while farming and we have to yell at the people that stand around harmlessly to go away so you can dps for your group, feels kinda yikes

I find it very reminiscent of being a shy pee-er at the urinal thinking DONT LOOK AT ME I’m trying to pee activate stealth!

[broken flint]

the ranger focus mechanic, how does it feel in long boss fights? Like I feel im constantly starved for it and the 15% damage boost if I read it correctly only applies at 15% if you're at 100 focus or am I reading that wrong?

any rangers around that can confirm or deny this function?

[sacred thorn]

15% = 100 focus

On long fights you wont take much advantage of it.

[broken flint]

that doesn't seem like good design, might as well not even add it because out side of niche situations it's basically non-existent

[sacred thorn]

I mean is kinda a attempt to keep the burst that rangers had from previous hunt/prey but in a more controlled matter I would say.

Even without focus you still have that "raw damage"

[broken flint]

Yeah but it's a class mechanic, but you only use it for 10% of a fight, I mean sure in pvp that's useful for sniping targets. However, if there is no down time you're starved for your resource for prolonged periods of time.

[sacred thorn]

Thats why Timing power shot for extended rotations is important

Am not saying the system is great but is what ranger's have to deal with it right now.

[broken flint]

I mean I use lightning reload to get 2 power shots back to back to get back to almost 100%, doesn't change the fact I immediately starve again shortly after.

[green charm]

game is not and never will be balanced for pve engagements

thank god

[agile saddle]

You don’t like the idea of having a pump and dump class resource like cleric and fighter? They also have to get it back up again after using it

[broken flint]

I don't play cleric and my main is fighter, but the key difference with fighter is not ALL my abilities are tied to doing more damage based on my resource. There are only 3 abilities that benefit from having high amounts of your resource, unlike ranger which has all of their abilities use up the resource, which essentially nerfs you by up to 15% if you don't keep it up.

This isn't a problem when it comes to PvP obviously since the ttk is like less than 10 seconds in most fights. However, in PvE, you are not only starved for focus but also mana when playing without a bard, which feels horrible imo.

[green charm]

yes the class suffers because it was not made by bucky

unfortunately only bucky classes are actually designed to play well

everyone else is fodder

[rigid hamlet]

I wish ranger would feel a bit more interactive like rogue does. Those channel abilities feel so bad to use 😦 especially when it's not a mage

I think most channel abilities should be able to be used during free movement and while casting other spells/abilities, a bit like bard

[sacred thorn]

Ranger is and will be a glass cannon guys.

So if gets touched you're 70% chance of dying is high.

You only have 1 cc cleanse, bear trap is awful, vine fields can be ignored if dashed throug and so on

Thats the life.

[rigid hamlet]

It's not about being squishy, it's about 3 sec channels feeling clunky and making me consider to go afk during it

Instant and quick cast abilities, reactive gameplay and many options/choices what to do are what makes classes fun

[sacred thorn]

I dont disagree with everything having a cast time but looks like is the pattern for every class design atm.

There is ways to work and reduce cast time, hopefully they will improve more in the future.

[rigid hamlet]

I think rogue and bard are on a different level than the other classes, they feel way less clunky

[green charm]

bear trap needs a total rework for sure

or make them semi permanent + invisible or something

[rigid hamlet]

I mean they're invisible to me half the time :v

But ya I'd prefer them simply deleted, it's boring

I hope the ranger doesn't get some weird beastmaster/companion stuff once the summoner tech is ready

[green charm]

yeah agree

fuck ranger summons

[celest jackal]

I think it having three choices of stamina useage is useless if one of those is the clear winner. If you had to choose one or the one you got was determined by archetype or secondary archetype then it would create a better dynamic between classes, especially if they were further balanced.

[languid bronze]

Not having a dodge as a Tank is deadly to the point that you can't tank - it will kill you.

When using block you can't swing your weapon to build resources or use skills (if you use skills, the block is dropped) - it's directly anti-synergistic to the gameplay provided.

Both of these points are dealbreakers for the gameplay itself, combined I do not see a place for any type of active blocking the way it is implemented.

I have a very hard time visualizing any type of situation where any other class would want to use Block in a PvE or PvP setting either.

[rigid hamlet]

you need abilities which you can't dodge and abilities which you can't block, making people have to choose between when to use which

Some abilities stunning you if you dodge them for example, but if you block them you take reduced dmg and no stun

Adds an extra layer of skill and makes both useful

[maiden hearth]

I don’t see any reason to block at all currently

PvE maybe

[rigid hamlet]

Iframe is obviously way better than reduce dmg taken in gamestate with way too much damage. We need the ttk fix asap. Things like adapting the siege gate hp are completely silly without it too

[maiden hearth]

I’m actually not super sure what the gate actually does. Like, attackers can fly over walls with Bard anti-grav and defenders cannot attack attackers through the wall

But I dunno, only managed to get to one siege and lagged to hell

[rigid hamlet]

I assume it will matter more when we get the next tier of node

[languid bronze]

It's directly detrimental to block in PvE. It drains you of your precious damage reduction resource and keeps you in danger longer. Plus all the other bad things about it.

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs when?

[languid bronze]

I'm gonna guess tanks and clerics get bit of work in for the double archetype testing

but that's just conjecture

[celest jackal]

Which is why I specifically mentioned further balancing them.

[broken flint]

Arguably this "1 cc cleanse" is worse on fighter b/c they have to be in the frontlines, but correct me if I am wrong, I think all classes only have 1 cc cleanse. Not sure on rogue though.

[languid bronze]

Well, sprint and dodge aren't really mutually exclusive and both have uses. Block is mutually exclusive.

My greater point is that with how attacking, moving (not dodging) and building resource is mutually exclusive with blocking I have a very hard time reconciling how you could fix it in any way.

That being said the way Reflect uses block is totally fine, and I would love to see other shield skills do something similar (keep shield up for X seconds) on skill use and add other beneficial effects.

[sacred thorn]

That would be reasonable if all classes had 1 type of CC which is not the case.

[broken flint]

I don't disagree, I am just saying the 1 cc cleanse applies to all classes, it's just a big problem overall. I mean consider how often you can apply a cc vs the cooldown on cc breaks.

[sacred thorn]

We have to wait and see, everyone is a one tap machine so class identity is hard to show.

[versed viper]

I remember in Aion and Tera your healers could cleanse all cc and debuffs with one skill on short or no cds. And Aion also had potions for it for the healer to use on themselves or if you were without one.

[celest jackal]

I don't think you should have access to all three. Dodge and Sprint, or Block and Sprint as determined by archetype and potentially, when introduced, by secondary archetype.

Archetype's should have more interactions with them similar to how Rogues have Dash.

Reflect is a good example of one that is just clunky to use but has a good fundamental idea. But I think it just needs to be reworked to be a reaction which enabled when you block a casted spell/ability.

[languid bronze]

But that's not how the core mechanics look for the stamina-based abilities. Everyone has access to all of those mechanics. The problem is that Block is actively detrimental to the gameplay, and doubly so for a Tank.

The good thing is that Reflect is snappy, reactive, and smooth to use. Plus there's good skill expression to it as well. If I had to say anything bad about Reflect, it's that the amount blocked is negligible.

[bleak meadow]

https://ashesofcreation.com/news/the-gatherable-spawning-system-is-evolving
Am i mistaking or was the gathering update supposed to be on the 10th of april?

It now says the 24th

Please let me know if I am wrong about this.

[languid bronze]

#questions message

[bleak meadow]

rezlised wrong chat

[bleak meadow]

Also saw that it is already being discussed there. Thank you for letting me know

[ruby pebble]

Ya know what would make fighter better

Give it chain pull from tank, it's ironically that the class with no survivability has to all in engage and the tank class doesn't 😂

[vale saffron]

Wonder who they hired today as the new lead combat designer

The role disappeared from the website

[languid bronze]

They'll introduce the person to the deep end with some heavy buckets and a chain I'm sure

[tulip grotto]

Unless devs are hired differently than the rest of humanity they haven't hired anyone yet if it got taken down today

[warm hemlock]

yeah it could be that they have enough applicants and have simply taken it down temporarily

[vale saffron]

Doubt it. On linkedin for example you can see the general number of applicants that applied for each role on there. The Lead Combat Designer role has 2 applicants on Linkedin atm, meanwhile the Sound Designer one for example has "Over 100" yet it's still up on the Intrepid careers page

[versed viper]

I agree with this mostly so I can save space on keybinds. Most MMO's that have these are mostly reticule based, so block is RMB and dodge is whatever else, or they're games with fewer buttons. Here it's just annoying having to get creative and use keybinds differently than I'm used to

[versed viper]

should hire the French guy who did the sound design for New World on launch

he is a master

[vale saffron]

He's still hired by AGS afaik, probably gonna be doing the work on the LotR MMO they're working on. They're probably paying fat $$$ to keep him seeing as the one part of NW people praised was teh sound design

AGS might put out shit games, but they pay giga well for the gaming industry

Yeah he's still working at AGS

[coarse scroll]

Omg, leveling up a cleric is like leveling a boombox mage meanwhile leveling my bard feels like I'm starting a 30 year old car

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs when?

[dry iris]

We only do tank nerfs in this house

[spiral grove]

Mf que?!

[tulip grotto]

When people stop coping out there ass and saying it's fine

[spiral grove]

Agreed

Altho tank is "fine" and would be cracked. If all the skills worked as intended

but half of them are broken so gg.

[tulip grotto]

Ya that's what I say too

The kit isn't terrible just half the skills are bugged and don't work

[little lark]

Tanks are the last to join group/first to leave usually, why do you think that is? I think it’s a combination of how easy it is for them to get a group and the strenuous/tiring playstyle the class demands

[spiral grove]

Protect is broken, charge knockdown doesn't work, grapple is cooked, shield slam/assault is broken and rubberbands, Aegis is troll

you know It's bad when you literally know of all the issues that's wrong with the archetype from the top of your head 😂

the only upside to all the changes that they did was removing the damage penalty and changing vengeance

and ground pound I guess

everything else was just bad or not even touched upon

but I guess they didn't go out of their way to try fix any of those issues because the rework was inevitable

[tulip grotto]

Trips often don't proc and when you plant the shield flag on some terrain it just falls through the ground and doesn't work

[spiral grove]

😂 yeah

I really hate the banner it feels so useless

for the cd that it has and what it provides it just seems so memeish

Who knew that I'd be this passionate as a DPS player normally for the tank archetype

[blazing bobcat]

That's probably because too much Trip/stun were applied in the last few seconds before yours and the monster developp an immunity to it for a few seconds

[tulip grotto]

Ya sometimes that's the case

But other times it is in the opening 2 seconds of soloing a mob while glint farming or whatever and it just doesn't go off

And then when I follow up with the jumpy thing that does extra damage to tripped targets it doesn't work so I know it's not a visual bug there was just no trip

I should really learn the names of the abilities I've been using for 6 months.....

[spiral grove]

jump thingy

Pulverize Phoenix gawd dammn it 😤

or desolate If you're AoE farming kekw

[tulip grotto]

Naaa jumpy thing

[elder talon]

are you guys discussing the Zagreus Strong Attack on Sword from Hades?

I’m really excited for tank to get another rework at some point, might be a bit of a wait but aside from Grit itself this rework was a good change. Still a lot of improvement to go but stuff like Slam is a big improvement imo. That ability went from boring and mostly pointless to kinda fun and interesting especially when solo farming.

[green charm]

Vengeance is like top 3 skills in the game rn

[spiral grove]

What

how

[tulip grotto]

Is that the red aggro circle?

Nope it's not

I don't think the knee thing is top 5 but who am I to say

[flat shuttle]

Meme or not, i like vengeance at the moment. Really ties the trip>knock up combo together to really lock someone down.

[elder talon]

Vengeance is a really weird ability to me because there’s basically no reason to ever use a single charge of it or two charges of it. You always wait for three and then mash it. Which seems counter to the charge-based design that implies there are situations where you’d use only one charge.

I’d like to see a light rework where the first charge used gives a LARGE shield, the second charge used in quick succession hits for a LOT of damage, and the third charge does the stun. Keep the stun exactly the same, reduce the damage on the first and third hits by 50%, double the damage on the second hit. Halve the shielding on the second and third use, double the shield from the first use. That way there are actual reasons to use only one or two charges.

[elder talon]

@rigid mortar would love your thoughts on Vengeance currently and if this makes any sense to you. Hope you don’t mind occasional pings.

[pale nexus]

Rogue diffed and tank diffed is truly wild izzy

[spiral grove]

WHAT?

by who mf

[rigid mortar]

Always fine to ping
I agree with this take. I worked on something for tank and Steven passed it on to the combat team so hopefully changes are finalized soon. I will say that you’re right in that there’s no strategy to not using all 3 typically. I’m also not a fan of how it’s single target now. Also feel we have more than enough trips / stuns in our kit which share the same cc immunity cd. Would like it as a snare or much larger dmg shield to incentive spreading out the hits for the reasons u mentioned
Either way it’s a lot better than old vengeance I’d say

[elder talon]

Definitely a big improvement over old for sure. I’ll be excited to see what you put together as a solution since it sounds like you identified the same problem.

[lilac rampart]

How did you manage to simply do something for steven like that:-p

[rigid mortar]

I just provide feedback like everyone else

[lilac rampart]

How you know it got passed on tho?

[rigid mortar]

Spoke with Steven. Plus it’s a private video so I see the views going up. Plus he told me and I don’t have a reason to think he lied. I just happen to have a way to prove it haha

[lilac rampart]

Allright

[spiral grove]

I was thinking

We should get a leap like the fighters that roots ppl into place, no?

I swear I feel like that makes so much sense for a frontliner/tank lol if we're talking about providing cc as well and not the trips kind

Right now you can charge in like a meme warrior and do nothing 😂

[rigid mortar]

It’s a disservice that tank has no immobilizations. That knock back on our charge could be an immobilization yes. It’ll make more sense on tomahawk to me to immobilize someone fleeing

[spiral grove]

idk why it didn't click in my head before. like a wind up animation to the leap for like 25m-30m to engage with. tank instantlyyyyyyy would gain pressure

😂 the passive on charge is a knock down 🫠 not even a knock back and it doesn't work at all

I hate that passive with a passion

[rigid mortar]

It’s a knock DOWN?

[spiral grove]

Unless correct me if im rwrong

YES

[rigid mortar]

[spiral grove]

so the idea is that if you were to charge into people, the ones you hit would get knocked down

but rn they just stay upright

[elder talon]

The talent says Knockback

So I think it’s working correctly

[spiral grove]

does it actually knock ppl back??

[rigid mortar]

Ok I was bout to say. Tank only archetype I play lol. I studied that tree

[spiral grove]

maybe I was just hoping it was a knock down rather than back

[elder talon]

Honestly I’ve never talented it because that’s a totally useless ability but it certainly says Knockback

[spiral grove]

yeah you right

ik I just tested it a few times and it didn't do shit so I never went back to it

protect also useless

[elder talon]

Well yeah I’m not sure what the point of a Knockback is supposed to even be. Maybe it interrupts casting or something.

[rigid mortar]

So fun fact… there was a knockback on slam and knockbacks interrupt cast times and resets ppl cds. Can’t confirm for this phase tho

lol as I type it

[spiral grove]

ya

[rigid mortar]

And doesn’t use cc diminishing return like trip

[spiral grove]

I hope it works

[flat shuttle]

It's knockback

[flat shuttle]

Yes used to have a spec for slam.
It's what I used in forge on the big boys lol.

[rigid mortar]

Was so good lol

[flat shuttle]

Was also good for booping people off ledges...😈

[spiral grove]

😂

[languid bronze]

I just wish Slam didn't take me a step forward. The constant repositioning it creates can get frustrating

[flat shuttle]

Just swap rogue 🙂

[languid bronze]

Helpful.

[flat shuttle]

It really is helpful.
Tank has so many problems that it's not fun to play unless you full ungabunga bonk.

[languid bronze]

In the meantime we can keep discussimg how to fix the Tank class, I think.

[flat shuttle]

Not to beat the horse but we've all participated in ideas how to fix tank.
Intrepid is working a rework.
Not much more at the moment.

[tender wing]

They definitely should rename the Tank archetype to Ungabunga Bonk

"Looking for Ungabunga Bonk, 12+ Oaken"

[tawdry cradle]

are secondary archetypes implemented yet? (haven't played it, just been thinking about what i'd like to do)

[flat shuttle]

Nope

[tawdry cradle]

👍

[versed viper]

sometimes in phase 3

[tawdry cradle]

sweet

[urban herald]

First of all what are the next archetypes going to be? And second I feel like tanks seriously only need either a heigher mana cap or less mana consumption though healer with blessed weapon kinda helps that and then maybe more cc and agro. I mean bloom you can't even agro if youre a tank (thats what I heard i main cleric so it mightve been last phase idrk)

[vale saffron]

Summoner is the last archetype

[languid bronze]

Having maxed the weapon for mana regent and using Reflect on cooldown I don't particularly feel there's a huge problem with mana for Tanks.
My main issue is that my mana is fine after a fight with one (one-star) mob of equal level, but my health is bad. Unless it's a bear - then I just run because bears are scary.

[spiral grove]

you guys prob don't have dmg or why do your fights last so long that you run out of mana fighting mobs?

[agile saddle]

Wait till you experience fights after the enchanting changes and stat nerfs are implemented

Your damage is going down the toilet

[languid bronze]

As long as the Tank gains survivability in comparison to other classes, that's okay

[daring sentinel]

all pve group content has been done over and over again with ~ 300 MP/PP characters. Mana isnt a problem as long as bards are awake, and people know what they are doing in general.

[elder talon]

You can always take the weapon ability that gives mana regen. I’ve been taking that when I don’t have a bard and never have problems.

[elder talon]

I think you might be undergeared then. In good gear I can pretty easily solo 2* beetles out in the desert that are 2-3 levels over me. Using ranged and doing your combo and a bit of kiting does wonders, especially if you’re willing to go Spellbook or Shortbow for a slow instead of Longbow.

[languid bronze]

I do go for short bow because attack speed serves Tanks better but I do base the critique off melee combat for both Tank (mace and shield) and Bard (greatsword) when I compared tankiness for solo play with mobs

[elder talon]

What’s your level and physical power? Any idea?

[languid bronze]

I would've checked if I could but my tank is in mostly blue ashen/forsaken gear with some + here and there, and Bard is in white/green crap I picked up

[elder talon]

Level?

[languid bronze]

15 for Bard, 19 for Tank

[elder talon]

Ahh 19 is especially rough because you get new weapons at the next level and unless you have good epic/legendary crafted level 10 weapons it’s a massive upgrade

[languid bronze]

Bard has been tankier than Tank at every level, that's my main frustration

[elder talon]

But yeah gear matters a LOT in this game for soloing especially on tank. I solo’ed all the way to 25 and it was awesome but I did it by gearing out first and then leveling.

[languid bronze]

Tank also has better gear in general compared to Bard, at any level, because I focused on that

[elder talon]

Averaged about an hour per level solo, 24 -> 25 was about 1.6 hours, but it was all gear and picking a good spot. Bard is less gear dependent imo.

[languid bronze]

I must've done something awful with gearing. I've bought the most strength stuff I've seen and when that wasn't available I have a few con pieces. It's all blue, a few blues with +, and that's about it

I have all the ashen pieces, some forsaken pieces, and filled out with the rest

[elder talon]

Well, 19 is rough and getting good gear currently is mostly about stacking strength and then enchanting it as far as you can push it up. And good weapons make a huge difference also. Gearing is fairly messed up. I’d check your physical power when you log in next and see. If you’re hovering around 200 that’s why you’re struggling. I was around 350ish at 19 and 410ish at 20 and hit 500 at 24.

[languid bronze]

from what I'm seeing, the TTK/Stat changes are coming fairly soon

I'll reserve judgement to when that is live

[elder talon]

Yeah that should hopefully fix the dependence on enchanting

[languid bronze]

That's supposedly part of the changes. We'll see, though

[sullen verge]

The attack speed of the Shortbow combo attack is misleading. And AP Rating as a stat is way more valuable than AS Rating.

[languid bronze]

well, I get a combo off with shortbow before mob reaches me with shortbow. that's not the case with longbow. that's what I've been basing my usage on

[sullen verge]

I was disbelieving myself when it was first pointed out to me. Its been a couple patches now since I tested, but at the time my stopwatch measurements seemed to be that the tooltip AS looked like it roughly applies to each projectile of the multi-hit combo attacks.

I've since tested more with 1h-sword, gs, and daggers. And concluded the tooltip attack speed is utter BS. Using longbow myself since on a rogue, I get off full combos before mobs reach me.

[languid bronze]

I didn't get into the stopwatch life but I did time some things - like shortbow/longbow for pulling at max range (f.ex. longbow got the finisher off at melee, the shortbow before that).

I tested sword against mace quite a bit too. I got the mace combo off at the time when sword hit the fifth time, making mace the better generator

[sullen verge]

GS and 1h-sword the base full attack time seemed to be roughly the same at ~5.3 seconds.

I didn't test mace, but I noticed if you added up the % power damage hits, it should be the same as GS/1h-sword. So I was assuming (danagerous I know) that it is likely the same full combo speed.

Was going to swap over when I hit 20 on my rogue, until then don't have the extended finisher unlocked to test.

[languid bronze]

Mace have 4 hit combo, sword has 6. There needs to be a big attack speed change to make sword same or better for resource generation for Tank

[sullen verge]

Mace has same combo as 1h-sword

[brave cosmos]

New musketeer archetype when

[sullen verge]

The number of hits doesn't matter (since the tooltip cast time isn't applied equally) just how long the combo actually takes

[languid bronze]

Asking for classes when they're half a year away

[brave cosmos]

It was a joke

[languid bronze]

I'm just looking at the numbers and comparing the time it takes man

[sullen verge]

Yeah, I'm saying "could be, didn't test yet" BUT 1h-sword combo is same as mace combo afaik. And I did test both great sword and 1h-sword.

I also didn't go back and verify how long the base combo of longbow was. At the time I was still thinking the tooltip cast time had some relation to the number of hits.

[languid bronze]

I tried both in solo and group play for sword/mace. I really feel mace generates faster. I'm happy to be proved wrong but that's my playing experience

[sullen verge]

Could be, I suspect the combo attacks are equal base speed and base dps. After my own experiences with shortbow (when told the combo attack took longer than it appeared on paper, I was like no way is the combo slow!) and don't trust anyone's feelings on things 😛

In fact daggers are slower on paper than they are in practice. They came out to a base combo time of ~5.8 seconds, which is still slower than swords by ~0.5 seconds per combo. It does put the combo DPS at about the same though.

[sinful bluff]

pretty sure it doesnt last i looked

[sullen verge]

If mace is the same combo time as swords, I do actually think mace + focus is actually the best min-max set. Since AP > AS 1 to 1, mace is more skewed AP. You can get equivalent AP to a GS using Mace + Focus unenchanted.

[languid bronze]

I agree - the "on paper" isn't representative

[languid bronze]

yes, this is my take-away

I even feel like mace finishes the combo soonerthan sword

[sullen verge]

I mis-remembered and mis-represented things saying 'same combo'. What I really mean by 'the same' is adding up the % damage for the mace combo (according to https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Basic_attacks which was accurate for greatsword/1h-sword so hopefully accurate for mace) I get 393% which is the same for 1h-sword and greatsword. There are also no multi-hit attacks in the combo, like 1h-sword.

btw, on AP > AS (part of the original issue talking about shortbows 😛 ) https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/66995/1-to-1-ap-rating-as-rating

They're changing stats up, but I seriously have my doubts from the PTR notes I've seen that they've fixed the problem. I'll be very surprised if the best min-max strategy isn't still to max out Power Rating wherever possible, leaving Speed Rating as incidental.

[languid bronze]

what I would love to see is that active skills do not interrupt your combo, but instead pauses it

[sullen verge]

Rogue Thrash and Flurry do that. I agree, it is a bit weird trying to time abilities in between combos. On Rogue I said screw it, and just use abilities as needed. Was too hard to tell/time things.

On Ranger (level 14 with shortbow) it was a bit easier to time things, I'd have the final extended combo 5x multi-hit to listen for.

[brazen tangle]

Having a character start at -20% speed rating as default means focusing speed will only ever get you to like 120%. This isn't worth the power loss

[sullen verge]

The base 80% AS the character sheet displays is really weird (and unnecessarily complicated). It doesn't contribute to the diminishing returns of AS Rating, so it won't make AS Rating any less worthwhile.
Reconsidering a lower base AS: It actually makes 1% AS from rating more valuable than if the base were 100%! Instead of getting 1% more attacks per second of whatever the observed base is, you are getting 1% more attacks of observed/0.8

However, That base 80% doesn't change the relative value of AS to AP. Simplified DPS is BaseDamage(A function of Attack Power)XBaseAttacksPerSecondX(0.8+ASFromGear)
If we change that .8 to a 1 or a 2 or a 10,000 it doesn't matter for comparing the value of AS Rating to AP Rating. If you increase AP Rating by X% you increase damage and therefore DPS by X%. If you increase AS Rating by X% you don't get X% more attacks per second.

[brazen tangle]

I really wanted to try out high end daggers with a lego shortbow and the magic cast speed food on a bard but based on what you are writing here, that would be a waste right?

I like the idea of a fast attack/cast speed being a viable build but no matter what I look at, it doesn't seem like it is

[flat shuttle]

You know i had a conversation about this with guildies on my tank when I was going between sword and mace.
Seemingly AS doesn't scale cast time but instead GCD.
Taking my tank for instance using vengeance I was able to get 3 casts of vengeance out faster with sword than mace.

Not sure if this 100% contributes to your discussion but it seems relevant.

[weak lion]

Anyone test Longsword/Mace with Focus offhand?

[flat shuttle]

This is what i used 100% of the time because ungabunga bonk tank.

[urban herald]

My dad says the same thing he doesnt have the health he would like he dies when fighting bears

[urban herald]

We are a tank cleric combo my mana lasts longer than his so most of our fights are drawn out due to lack of dps

[urban herald]

We both have it and i also have blessed weapon to help out throughout the fight which keeps both of our mana up but not enough to stop him depleting it all when we pull large groups even if we are in a group.

[elder talon]

Is he not completing weapon combos and constantly interrupting them with abilities or something? The weapon ability gives a lot of mana.

[urban herald]

Which one?

I’m curious I’d love to help him out later today when he gets off I’ll tell him to give more details

[elder talon]

The one early in the tree, you get it at level 7 or something I think. It’s in the second section of the weapon tree. The options are damage, health shield, or mana.

[urban herald]

Ill check with him right now and i texted him everything you guys have said which should be a huge help

[languid bronze]

I think there's a problem in general for all archetypes with this - it kind of feels like/looks like everyone wants the mana regen option

[urban herald]

Even with the lack of mana though the tank cleric combo allows us to take on red enemies without dying, though now we just need good spots to grind at lvl 15 and up XD

[languid bronze]

or am I smoking some premium stuff?

[urban herald]

no you arent

mana is always a problem in every group im in especially in boss fights

[languid bronze]

and even more so in any solo play

[urban herald]

granted im not lvl 25 yet but even with two healers the amount of damage everyone takes both of us run out of mana and our tank does too causing he to loose agro and then we die off because we are healing the whole group

yes exactly

[languid bronze]

Honestly Intimidating Aura and auto-attack is almost impossible to yank aggro off if you keep it up on cooldown

[urban herald]

then again with the cleric at least i can solo quite a bit before my mana runs out and with blessed weapon i think the cleric is balanced for solo play but in a max group size (ik its obvious and not a problem) one cleric isnt enough but even with two some fights just last too long for the clerics or tank to keep their mana up

[urban herald]

do they agro groups?

I mean do both skills

[languid bronze]

Intimidation Aura is great AoE aggro

[urban herald]

I remember seing that one

Also what does the acronym AP stand for?

Or AS

[languid bronze]

Probably Attack Power and Attack Speed, but I might be wrong

[urban herald]

Ahhh that would make a lot more sense

thanks I was reading this trying to understand everything

So what I got from this is that mace focus is better for AP rating and that he just needs to stack strength every chance he gets, time his combos and skills as to not interupt refreshing follow through and weapon combos, and try not to get into prolonged fights? The last one im still confused on as with only two people any fight at or above your level with 1-3 stars is going to be drawn out and it would then be inefficient to fight them due to having to constantly sit after mana is low, and would instead be better to fight the base mobs.

I might be completely wrong but thats my take on everything (I think i have a pretty good build as a cleric so my mana lasts longer than our dps/tank and sometimes even our bards)

[languid bronze]

All of this would be solved if the system would allow skills to pause the combo, instead of interrupting it. I'm very much hoping the design goes to pausing combos.

[tacit adder]

interrupting combos is a good thing in my opinion, actually have to think about when to use spells and when to use a finisher for max damage in a situation

[languid bronze]

how would that change if you paused a combo instead?

[tacit adder]

because you can just use spells whenever and still get a high damage finisher

[languid bronze]

but you still want to time it to a finisher, right?

[tacit adder]

I guess, still not a fan of it, right now you have to decide what you spend your time on, an auto attack up to finisher or a spell and know what's worth more. another issue is finisher having special abilities like resetting cooldowns etc, which could overpower alot of things.

[languid bronze]

With the current set-up, you would want to enforce downtime on skills akin to about 5 seconds. no pvp fight will want that, so weapon combos for pvp either favor weapons that have very few combo-hits, or don't bother with combos at all. This is bad for the gameplay.

For pve, stopping to use skills for the same amount of time can be fine for dps, is problematic for healers, is needed for Bards (to proc the finisher effect), and is disruptive for tanks.

This is why I argue that skills should pause combos, not interrupt them.

[urban herald]

fair enough

[urban herald]

He does have a massive point and is clearly visible while playing with my dad (hes a tank and im a cleric) as his mana always depletes so fast. I would go as far to say that if we put it to a vote that pausing combos would win as it allows tanks and bards to do what they do best.

I dont have any problems with the other classes mainly cause i havent maxed them out but I already know i want a main cleric and maybe a rogue for pvp eventually

[languid bronze]

It would make pretty much any class feel better in PvP too

[urban herald]

I havent pvp'd much as of right now so i cant comment on it but i can definitely imagine

Also is there any way for the tank to get more magic resistance?

My dad gets nuked if we ever fight a highwaman mage

[tacit adder]

oh for sure, I don't know how much of an issue that is for tanks and clerics, and it's just my opinion after all. on damage dealers and bards, I wouldn't like that as a change

[sullen verge]

UI wise, I also find it difficult to tell where in the combo I am with a 1h-sword. If I'm expected to time my abilities to after a combo finishes, I need some UI element to tell me where in the combo I am.

Or the final combo hits need to be more obvious than they are.

[tacit adder]

those are shown on the new attack "button" UI

might help you if you move that ui part to be more visible then

[sullen verge]

New as in on the ptr? Or was it broken this last test period?
I saw that were different icons for each of the attacks of the combo, but it was failing to update when autoatacck was on at least.
Also even if only interested in the combo attack button, still had the other 3 elements (dodge, block, sprint) I didn't care about taking up space.

[tacit adder]

the icons worked well for me

[sullen verge]

It was all sorts of confused for me. Maybe because of other rogue issues I bug reported. When pulling with ranged, most rogue abilities would swap me to melee. Though kick and pumel would swap it back to ranged.

And then combat would end, and my combo attack would show the melee icon even though it was for ranged.

[green charm]

You need to listen for the audio queue

[sullen verge]

Which isn't very obvious for 1h-sword.

They are all single hits, with the last one being a bit heavier.

Easily lost when up in all the action and flashing lights. Especially compared to bow combos.

[ruby pebble]

Tank damage becoming garbage will make it's only identity a CC con bot,making it boring id be okay if they nerfed the damage and made fighters more useful but so far they haven't given fighters anything

[glad cloak]

Beetles are not fun to kill

[languid bronze]

I'd kindly ask you to think long and hard about possible PvE situations too for being a beating-bag, but I'm worried what might come out on the other end at this point

all jokes aside, we both need some pats and updates

[ruby pebble]

Yea but from what I heard the mobs haven't changed at all just damage nerfs to everyone. So it isn't even gonna make it better in PVE

just a con bot, with melee still in the same spot it was.

My melee options shouldn't be build con, do no damage and play tank or dont play melee 😂

[languid bronze]

I appreciate your amount of restraint and candor.

I don't want to be a con-bot, that's for sure. I feel like Tank is missing a rather significant damage ability, but I can't exactly put my finger on what it would be.
I very much appreciate where you're coming from, and when the TTK is adjusted I might get more into pvp to see what it's like - but I agree that Fighter (Warrior?!) shouldn't be a wet paper bag wielding a scary sword

[ruby pebble]

Even if fighter got alot more sustain or had more then tank it still wouldnt be meta or wanted because it's the only class that doesn't provide anything in raids and battles. It doesn't have a role.

For tank tbh just adjust the skill scaling with damage a bit.

[languid bronze]

I mostly agree with you, and I feel like I want to try Fighter but at the same time the idea feels punishing o_O

[ruby pebble]

Reality is any competitive guild won't even invite you to raids if you are a fighter because doing damage isn't enough to justify going fighter.

Mages do damage and a better job at it while providing buffs to raid, tanks have really good cc while also giving shields and protection to allies as well as los targets,

If they want to make fighter better they should make it the opposite positive of tank

Cuz I said earlier today instead of a 15% health banner have fighter throw a war banner that increases everyone's damage

Like how tank can throw protection on someone, instead of fighter throw blood pact where whatever they heal themselves for via damage, their ally gets half that and half of their skill buffs.

Give fighters a aoe pull and knockdown. Have them empower their allies as their charging in otherwise

If all you give them is damage when everyone else has something for the team You just built a shitty sucidial assassin with no stealth

[languid bronze]

these are some very DK ideas but I'm backing this stuff for sure. having a Fighter chainpull mobs to the tank in PvE would create an attractive niche where I would want one in the group as much as I can

and yes I know we're usually talking about two very distincly different modes of play, I just want a good balance and this would be super great to have

[ruby pebble]

Well in archeage 6.0 and onward blood reaver for example would go in dive, aoe pull,hellspear impaling targets then whirlwind and aoe trip then crows decreasing everyone's accuracy and proceed to delete targets through pricesion striking striking

Just like fighter here they had good AOE heals from Leach

[languid bronze]

it's weirdly easy to translate into Death Knight for WoW and PvP, so I kind of get what you mean

[languid bronze]

15 second leech on a 60 second CD doesn't sound entirely awful, on that note

[ruby pebble]

Fighter doesn't need leech thou + it already can heal through damage it just needs to be able to set up and provide benefits for the group like the rest of the classes.

And if they want to make it this all in hard to escape class. Then do that but raid wide not single target.

If fighters could go in and aoe pull and cc it would set up so much more for mages rangers, etc to start doing some AOE combo damage to the raids. And this would also put a lot of pressures on clerics and bards because they will start struggling to heal 10-15 targets getting blasted at once.

[languid bronze]

fair enough! I'm quite excited to see the stat rework + TTK change come online. I suspect if they feel happy with the quick-test on the ptr of the ptr we'll see it pretty soon even

[weak lion]

I think some extra shout abilities for Fighter would be nice and follow a theme.

[frank cloud]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH

[sacred mango]

Most of fighters problems are In PvP right

[ruby pebble]

Yes thou not being able to give any benefits outside of damage would effect pve too, just not as much as pvp

[ionic plume]

They have good mob control and debuffs in PVE. Just hard to use all their CC in pvp atm since it requires high uptime in melee

[maiden hearth]

Have tried asking them politely to stand still?

[sinful bluff]

seems like fighters are the only person that can weaken somone

[torn imp]

Brother you won't even stand in range of heals long enough pffff

[maiden hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-gif-5593954

[ionic plume]

Shout + blue stance = shaken, demoralized, and weaken.
To many fighters stay ONLY In green stance even if 10 other people are already applying stagger for your knockdowns..
Blue stance gives lots of health regen and evasion on top of the shaken Debuff

[urban herald]

Just saying in my eyes the only use for a tank is for it to take the hits no other class can and without magic mit put a tank up against any class using magin or any mob and they get nuked every time

And youre right it does need a damage boost but not much honestly that magic mit is so noticable for us as when he gets hit i have to switch from whoever i was healing and pocket him

[urban herald]

Also i didnt mean the only use ofc a tank needs to hold agro as well as cc a hoard but from my experience leveling with my duo being a tank and me a cleric the damage is small but with me backing him its easy to take on crowds and survive.

[sacred mango]

Hoping Paladin solves this and makes it make more sense

Paladin having high Phys and magic resist makes sense

But highkey they should just make Paladin have a unique trait they can get that converts armor to magic resist that way they are incentivized to run heavy armor exclusively

[sinful bluff]

tbh spellshield would be the tank class that gets alot of MR 😛

which is tank/mage

paladin i would think would be a tank that AoE heals on attacks and things i would think

[sinful bluff]

also on PTR atm with changes apparently tanks win every fight in pvp but agaist a cleric from what ive been told 😛

[sacred mango]

Specialized tanks would also be pretty chill

I’m hoping they make a dps tank option

For those speed runners / people that want to play an aggressive tank at the cost of some tankiness

[sinful bluff]

dmg seem to have been over nerfed atm on ptr from what i hgeard

you will probaly get 1-2 more dps orinated tank options same with cleric

probaly tank with fighter/rogue or ranger might be more dmg orinated

and cleric rogue will probaly be a more shadow dmg cleric

[sacred mango]

yeah dps tanks are always niche but very fun in a lot of mmos

most popular with speedruns in pve obv given it allows for it but the option is always nice

[agile saddle]

Tanks primary job is to maintain agro
The damage part doesn’t matter as long as it does its job

[umbral seal]

You can set all the advantages for blue w/e the fk stance it's called. nobody cares because then you can't trip outside of using leap. Also you can't shout because for whatever smart reason shout is a fighter's only cc break. There's no point using orange stance(fk i forgot all the names after playing rogue 😂 ) for attack speed when again, you can't trip outside of leap.

Speaking about PvE, ever since Tanks became paper and the low quality tanks only amplify this.......you have raids demanding fighters to be rangers just so their clerics can keep up the tank.

Legit don't know what they want the fighter to be.

[ionic plume]

Solo play cant trip outside of leap if not using green stance.. but in group play theres usually already stagger applied by someone else which is what you need for you trips.. and if not you can just stance dance for when you need stagger up to trip. Orange stance is much higher dps then the other 2 debuff stances also if you have someone else doing the debuffs as well as making your rotation much quicker which helps a lot in pvp

Idk how ptr changes fighter self sustain but in PVE content a fighter is more then capable of managing their own healthbar with built in life steal and backing out attacks that might kill em. Can't be a lazy player if you're gonna be a melee in this game

[umbral seal]

You go lecture other clowns in this game. If they demand and you don't comply, all you get is a kick if you're not the group/raid leader. I can be a god-tier fighter, that shit means nothing in the heads of others.

[ionic plume]

Its just funny. People complain about fighters being bad but its probably the ones that hit whirlwind and then stand in the one shots and wonder why they died 😅

[umbral seal]

Then again all this stems from a Tank, healer and casual problem.

[ionic plume]

Yeah def. Fighters and rogues (when damage/survivability is balanced) with how combat currently works def won't be very casual friendly. Gotta stay on your toes and pay attention

[sacred mango]

You can set up a trip without leap by using spin 2 win as well

In solo play you’d be better off not running green stance except when you are scumming with incapacitate since you’d be losing a lot of your combat momentum right off the bat, in which case you can kinda pseudo rotate where you can engage with green stance to trip spam and mitigate how much damage you take, swap to blue when you’ve built up combat momentum, exhaust your abilities til you need to incapacitate then swap back to green since while the enemy is incapacitated you’ll be low on combat momentum again and you can just repeat the cycle

That’s the way I’d approach it at least

But blue outside of incapacitate cheesing is just hella good for sustain since you can keep up your combat momentum very easily. Hell I’d argue you’d want to swap to red if you plan on berserking in PvE to maximize how much damage you can output since your combat momentum will, again, drain

Options go brrr

Stance dancing for shift in combat focus is already viable it’s just not very appealing

It’s Minmaxy at best

[hasty vale]

honestly, the best way to give tank some damage without overbalancing it is to add in a reflect ability. one with a fairly long cooldown, that you can use to reflect an enemy ability/spell/attack. you won't be using it nonstop, but when it's obvious that a boss is charging up a party wipe move, you reflect it (to prevent trivializing bosses/PvE in general, maybe make it so that reflected abilities have a lower cooldown than if they were allowed to fully activate). when you see an enemy ranger charging snipe? boom, reflected. enemy mage charging lightning strike? boom, reflected. rogue attempting to cut you down? little bit harder to time in melee, but that's where the skill expression would really shine imo

[ionic plume]

Yeah thats what I do.. i took the talent for swapping stances also for the rare occasions when I want to stance dance (use to doing that in WoW on warrior so doesnt feel weird)
I just see a lot of fighters REFUSE to Leave green because "I need it to trip" and they arent realizing most other people are already applying the debuff

[agile saddle]

Tank doesn’t need damage

[spiral grove]

Based af

[languid bronze]

There already is an ability that does this.

[zinc sierra]

yeah something like that

[hasty vale]

I think it can be improved though. Give it some extra power through increased damage, with a trade off of a much longer cooldown. You can also use this as a way to incentivize players to block more by making it so for every attack blocked with active block, you reduce the cooldown a little.

People don’t like tank because it doesn’t feel satisfying to play. A part of that is I think the lack of impactful abilities. Most other classes have skills that are very central to how those classes play and feel. Tanks are lacking skills with that kind of oomph.

[languid bronze]

it hits like a truck and the cooldown is fine - the problem isn't Reflect

[hasty vale]

I didn’t say reflect was “the problem” lol, the problem is that tank doesn’t feel satisfying to players. And keep in mind, that is me quoting them. I like tank in its current state honestly, and think most everyone is just complaining that it’s not another dps.

My suggestions on the change to reflect were to make it more satisfying not to “fix it”

[bold summit]

What are the two best archetypes for beginners? Looking for something easy to level and learn as servers will probably be wiped for phase 3.

[umbral seal]

Easiest to play is mage. Just roll your face on the keyboard and things die.

[glossy pumice]

If you want to get into levelling groups probably a cleric or tank are the best 2 or a bard but after that a ranged damaging class (ranger/mage) will be the best option followed by fighter/rogue.

[bold summit]

Thanks guys.

[languid bronze]

My argument is that Reflect is satisfying and tinkering with it more won't really solve anything.

[golden plume]

I'm not in the ptr but I heard somethings about rogue changes. I'll reserve judgment until I play test myself but if some of the changes are true to what I heard then what are yall smoking

[random blaze]

Solo playing I like the fighter. Group, as stated above, cleric, tank or bard.

[hazy cave]

It appears we have a few players that would like intrepid to change the fighter to a support class! 😆 . I'm seeing complaints they aren't equipped with enough group buffs? WTF is all that about?

[narrow ivy]

I would just like to support as a big weapon swinger but by no means should it change the entire class, just an idea of a sub class or interaction with group content of "do more damage because i exposed a weakspot" idk

[urban herald]

Thats so weird since they dont hit hard and also dont have high MR so maybe the are giving the tank some love in the PTR

[stark hare]

sub classes will be a thing

[urban herald]

Tank doesnt need damage but a reflect ability would be a great way to add "dps" to a tank without actually increases its damage. If they hit the tank they take some damage. Its been done in the past and if done right should create a decently tanky tank that deals slightly more damage and yes youre right tanks dont need it but it would be fun nonetheless

[urban herald]

Didnt know they had this skill but if they were to dumb it down to a passive 10-15% and possible crit chance of like 2% it would make it more versatile instead of the tank always taking damage.

[charred seal]

Yeah but you can't tune the game for the elite. If you do that they are the only ones that will be able to play the game. In any case, elite players shouldn't care about levelling. If you are an elite player, you will realize that making levelling easy for casuals/healer/tanks, and only tuning for skill at endgame is an intelligent strategy for designing games.

[sinful bluff]

No one hits hard anymore on ptr, glass cannon class are glass no cannon last i heard from people on there so they just outlasting everyone

Rogues backstabs were doing like 500 dmg or sonething at 25 now as of start of ptr from ehat the guys in there said

Common consensus though is thry need more time to cook with the ttk from my understsnding of ptr :p

[umbral seal]

https://tenor.com/view/money-ball-what-the-fuck-are-you-talking-about-man-wtf-brad-pitt-gif-17710711

[languid bronze]

Steven did confirm this is the first of many passes to work on the stats and TTK, and also wanted us to test the everliving crap out of it.

#alpha-two-news message

[sinful bluff]

Pretty much, although they got a few weeks since that change was expected to cone the 24th or something

[flat shuttle]

Wtb van locations... 🤣

[quick path]

i guess people missed the mention that leveling this week will be nigh impossible

[charred seal]

I'll be specific, you cant tune LEVELLING DAMAGE for elite DPS. If you do that you wont have ENOUGH casuals, tanks or healers at endgame.

[azure owl]

almost sounded like tanks and healers are all casuals but i got your point 😉

[bold summit]

if I am going to be predominantly playing with one friend at first, would a Bard and Mage be a good combo or would Bard and Fighter be better for beginners?

Mainly just want to learn the ropes before phase 3 launches.

[languid bronze]

Bard+Anything is a good combo for playing together

[bold summit]

Thanks

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs where?

[high matrix]

Is hiding under mend

[maiden hearth]

Tanks viable when you’re pocketed by a bard

[agile saddle]

Tanks don’t need buffs when the dps can’t do as much damage

[sudden bough]

lots of talk about tanks... is it hard to level one up solo?

[umbral seal]

What the fk is this guy on about?

When the fk did i say anything about leveling?

Also solo leveling only takes 2-3 days to get to 25. What do you mean it's not casual friendly?

Yo, go re-read and get the context right.

[maiden hearth]

It’s not hard per se, harder than some other classes for sure, but tanks definitely shine in group play

[elder talon]

Do you mean 3 days /played time?

[umbral seal]

2-3 irl days

Getting from 1-10 only takes 1.5-3 hours.

depending on gear but then again this gets thrown out the window with a group.

[celest brook]

hasnt this always been the case?

[umbral seal]

Think at one point it got nerfed abit to the point where in raids you wouldn't go from 10% mana to 100% mana with blood fusion activated.

[plucky ridge]

No tank chages? 😢

[agile saddle]

Tank is fine

[glossy pumice]

Doing what? Being carried by others with high end gear and always playing together? I’m honestly curious how you got from 1-25 in less than 24 hours played time.

[umbral seal]

2-3 days doesn't equal less than 24 hours. What you smoking.'

[glossy pumice]

It equals less than 24 hours PLAYED time yes.

[umbral seal]

Also this was pre-ttk patch. what you on about.

lmao

[glossy pumice]

So what I’m hearing is you are just a troll who has no idea what he’s talking about based on your response 😂

[umbral seal]

I got 3 25s done up in a little over a week. So you keep thinking what you want. Like you actually know shit. lol

[glossy pumice]

Clearly a troll 😂

[umbral seal]

Cya boi

[glossy pumice]

Bye troll

Can’t even answer a simple question because he can’t actually explain himself

[umbral seal]

I gotta defend myself against the slow, the 9to5 and the incapable

nah thanks

[glossy pumice]

That’s because you can’t defend yourself because you are clearly talking out your ass 😂

[languid bronze]

I feel like the Tank is much tankier now, but I can't exactly put my finger on it. I'm thinking it's because the mobs do less damage now

[umbral seal]

You got lifesteal? Lifesteal actually doing something now

[languid bronze]

No lifesteal whatsoever

[umbral seal]

Interesting

[languid bronze]

mobs that did somewhere in the ballpark of 250 damage per hit before does about 100 now. I think that's the largest contributing factor

[umbral seal]

The lvl 27 spear elites in the desert did feel like they were alot less dangerous compared to what they were. Without any form of life leech/health regen.

Then again, the mob AI still isn't properly functioning.. There are reports where mobs just stand around doing nothing. So maybe that factors in too.

Prior to this patch, the 3 star elites in HH were alot slower in picking out their abilities compared to some other time before

[languid bronze]

the mobs I've been fighting has had normal fighting behaviour

[lone cypress]

overall npc stats are lower, less damage, less def, less hp (less xp)

[languid bronze]

I'm getting pretty much the same xp as before with the ashen flame dudes north of Joeva

but their hp hasn't changed notably so that might be it

[lone cypress]

ok, maybe something was changed from ptr, the ones I compared there had less

[cunning jungle]

Whoever is a caster , build Mag Pen

[zinc sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/anybody-home-chirp-chirp-chirp-cricket-cricket-meme-gif-2033911404004530327

[flat shuttle]

From my experience dueling yesterday...there are a lot of people with 3k-3.5k hp at 25.
Get more and you won't be one combo'd.

[green charm]

so easy to get more hp now

you just have to sacrifice dps

as it should be

[elder talon]

Mobs do way less damage + we have much more HP (and you can easily get more) and we have a bunch of abilities that give % hp.

[spiral grove]

[flat shuttle]

This is the conclusion we came to.
Stat stacking gone
Balance is in.
I do think they need to nuke the penetration ratings though.
I have 50% penetration and it just rips.

[green charm]

yeah same here

crit chance and power also easy to get now

[flat shuttle]

Crit chance is misleading i think because of crit avoidance being on stat sheet.

[daring sentinel]

pen was always a bit controversial, it undermines the heavy armour value, which is already rather questionable, thanks to how common magical damage is in the pvp setting.

[flat shuttle]

Ah but seeing the damage difference currently of a cleric wearing light armor vs heavy rividium, i was hitting nearly the same.
Crit backstab on light armor was 1570
Crit backstab on heavy rividium was 1485.
This is at 44% penetration.
That seems pretty out of wack to me.

[lone cypress]

no why, high pen is basically ignoring armor, light zero def, heavy gives a little def from whatever, I think you have only ~35% phys with heavy

[glad cloak]

Yeah but like armor is giving 30% DR maybe 25%? Not certain , but 50% pen is like 15-20% more dps then right? Might be better off just going for power

I don’t think pen applies to raw mitigation anyways, idk

[flat shuttle]

Yeah we need to do more testing for sure. But out of everyone i dueled yesterday at 215 power with daggers I didn't see anyone crit higher.
Obviously other factors in play but still lots ot play with.

[flat shuttle]

Which is sort of a problem.
It's super easy to get high pen with current stat balances. X2 pen per dexterity? That in itself is already 25% for a lot of people.

[lone cypress]

ye, said on PTR already, having 5 different effects on base attributes isn't really helping with balancing

[flat shuttle]

This depends if we can effectively "over penetrate" DR right?

[lone cypress]

it shouldn't go below zero

[glad cloak]

I read it as if you have 100% pen, then the target has effectively 0 armor

[flat shuttle]

No i think it is a right step to balancing. But they really need to look at armor values / penetration values. This is just feedback.
I had so much fun dueling yesterday.

[lone cypress]

the way I see it if you have 50% pen you ignore 50% armor

[glad cloak]

So if someone has 30% mit from armor, 50% pen is “only” 15% dps increase

[flat shuttle]

That seems like way too much don't you think? Idk I'm usually a tank player and that worries me lol.

[lone cypress]

it is

[maiden hearth]

The way that I see it, 50% pen = ignore 50% of target’s Armor

[lone cypress]

eh no, sorry, I meant if your target has 50% mitigation with his stats, you fully ignore it

[maiden hearth]

But what do I know

[sullen verge]

The way tooltips were phrased before, if you had 50% pen you ignored 50% of their Mitigation Rating. This read to me like it should be less than 50% of their actual mitigation, due to diminishing returns on Mitigation Rating --> Mitigation. Not sure if the tooltip has changed.

[maiden hearth]

I’m a filthy support/healer

[flat shuttle]

I hate feelycrafting.
Just venting my opinion of course.

[glad cloak]

Ranger feels fine post change. Too many buttons do basically the same thing and focus is ignored but meh

Anything you could solo before is a bit easier to solo now. Mana is less of a problem also

Also raven is still on hit damage even though it says physical evasion in tooltip

[lone cypress]

whoever crafted that stat overkill doesn't understand it either

[cursive zealot]

for fighters whats the best armour mix

im running 5 medium 3 heavy

not sure if that's optimal

[glad cloak]

Stats > armor categories. But if all else is equal then what you listed is probably best. In general ignore armor categories

[flat shuttle]

Yeah the 5pc/8pc sets seem to be lackluster in importance imo

[jade anvil]

i think the problem with set bonuses at the moment is they only give stats. I think the design principle of ESO sets was really nice in that regard because the last "Buff" when you have the whole set is almost always something more special then stats and i think that makes the set more cool, more special and different from each other and more impactfull overall in the game. The Problem was the balancing was kinda bad sometimes and some sets were just clearly better in certain metas. I think sets will be more impactfull eventually but im not sure if it will be soon or more something for later.

[flat shuttle]

Yeah i also mean like the light/med/heavy set bonuses almost don't matter.

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs where?

[flat shuttle]

Put shield on feel stronk

[spiral grove]

😂😂

Does passive blocking work tho?

[flat shuttle]

I haven't tried. I'm a rogue boy nowadays

I know we crafted a ton of shields...

[daring sentinel]

yeah, it would be nice if armour set bonuses actually gave you something substantial, or at least directed your build in some direction, whatever that would be more damage, faster casting times, DoTs, healing, survivability, whatever through evasion, life-leeching, block/parry/mitigations etc etc

[sly kite]

it works, but apparently its alot lower than it should be

[spiral grove]

They trollink huh

[viral wind]

~3% according to the character sheet, but I haven't had a chance to stand still letting a mob hit me for 6 hours to test that

[hasty holly]

Just started the game but shortbow seems goated loving the attack speed

[sacred mango]

It’s strong just less range than the longbow by a large amount

Slap on a long bow and look at the range in which you can pull its kinda nutty lol

[gentle void]

Shortbow = more speed less power
Longbow = less speed more power

[lament agate]

yup penetration is what is ruining the ttk.
Revert to the old system, and remove penetration / boost defense on gear.

we did some test of someone with full gear vs someone naked, and they took the same damage lol

[flat dock]

I bug reported it but it seems that Caravan parts price are wrong, the Oak Caravan Chassis use to be cheaper than a Weeping Willow Chassis. Why buy T1 caravan parts from Vendor when they the same price as a T2 Vendor item.

[broken flint]

Rogue's Foreshadowing talent is literally mechanically just bad. Guile says "On your next weapon combo finisher, gain advantage" but it only lasts 7 seconds. Foreshadowing gives you guile if you attack from stealth, but the last thing you do when attacking from stealth iss a weapon combo, and by the time you decide to, 7 ssecondss are gone. Guile's ability to gain advantage should be permanent., and the evasion you get should be the only thing that lasts 7 seconds.

[hard verge]

What is the gear/effects for max health? I'm on a level 2 character with no gear on and no abilities active.

[dry iris]

Your weapon

[sinful bluff]

To be fair they shouldnt be pn a vendor :p or the willow and braid alot more expensive haha

[cunning jungle]

Tell me why they decided to give a Light armor set for physical classes and spindlehemp gear isn’t even good physical stats

[mint tusk]

They were messing with you and thunder specifically

[cunning jungle]

On god

@timber solstice this guy too

[timber solstice]

they took my dog

all because im a mage

https://tenor.com/view/cocking-pistol-john-wick-keanu-reeves-john-wick-chapter-4-jw4-gif-14490794064585307818

its shoots firebolts btw

[spiral grove]

@mighty nimbus Any estimate on when Tank rework might get announced? potentially Pre-P3 or Post-P3?

I believe a ton of people will be deciding whether they want to play Tank for their group/raids then or not.

[craggy grotto]

Is there even any good options left for mage? I’ve been looking through codex and most of the level 20 shit that I find isn’t obtainable 😔

[spiral grove]

@cunning jungle

How cooked is mages?

[full stump]

Hello, is there a reason why the spell "Mend" on the cleric is not in mouseover? Or is it just an oversight?

[gentle void]

iirc there’s a specific setting for mouseover

[clever wyvern]

mage is trash rn

[spiral grove]

Tank trash too

[glacial otter]

Everyone saying their class is trash after last patch. So whats not?

[jolly egret]

Tank feels quite nice now, better then before the "balance" patch for sure 🙂

but i'm easy to please .)

[bitter mirage]

Cleric feels pretty good, still can solo a lot without any good gear

[jolly egret]

can kill 2-star mobs without being killed by them first now, so thats a nice improvement

if they are 2-3 levels lover, and 5 levels lover i can deal with 3-stars

and for 1-stars, i can farm those even 2 levels higher then my tank

which wasnt possible before the patch, with my poor gear

got to the test just 2 weeks ago, so i'm lvl 15 only now, wasting most of the time on exploring random stuff

[clever wyvern]

rogue still busted good

SSS tier rn

[jolly egret]

so ye, tank feels nice now

[rough knoll]

what was the change?

[languid bronze]

Gear and Stat rework

[cunning jungle]

None

[craggy grotto]

xddd

glad fighters got some light armor tho

[full stump]

Yes I have already activated it, but it does not work on a specific spell

[high matrix]

Mend is the most broken cleric skill. You will learn to not use it much lol

It's basically best for self heals only

Also /bug it and maybe one day it will be fixed

[upbeat plover]

mend is underrated after the last change they made to it

[full stump]

okay thx

[past whale]

The 1v1 class is a god at 1v1s

Their poisons are actually doing too much damage though. Like I’m getting ticked for 1k from poisons is actually nuts

[sacred mango]

Fighter is solid

Especially good in PvE I’d say, still unsure on PvP but I hear ttk is not as oppressive so maybe fighter has more leeway to make some plays

[clever wyvern]

time to wear necrotic mitigation

[sacred mango]

I need me either another fighter or a bard to help grind desert mobs

18-20 be hectic to say the least I wanna pull a lot of mobs but they hit hard af

[opaque nebula]

poison deals necrotic dmg?

[sly kite]

damn that seems really strong

[green charm]

tank literally op right now

don't ask for rework so soon

[spiral grove]

shaddap

[green charm]

takes like a day to regear

[spiral grove]

tis weak gimmie rework, working abilities not half of them broken

Just because we finally got working defensive stats doesn't make us op

punk

[green charm]

nerf tank even

rogue and tank into the ground thanks

[celest jackal]

This may be a hot take, but tank should only be a secondary archetype, with 1-25 pve scaling being adjusted to not require tanks.

[agile saddle]

Watching a tank beat every other class in a 1v1 says otherwise

[spiral grove]

I mean it doesn't say otherwise, because before working defensive stats. tank was literally a meatbag that couldn't 1v1 anything. there's a reason every tank went full dmg lol

[sly kite]

and they arent balancing around 1v1. the group performance is what matters the most

[spiral grove]

Yeah

[lament agate]

true they should redesign tank, having 10k hp unbuffed is not op enough

[spiral grove]

hp is just hp lol that's again ONLY because max health was put onto pieces

having 10k hp without defensives is still nothing

[lament agate]

lol bro, have you played the game?

[sly kite]

i've heard that bards can do 2.5k an auto attack

[lament agate]

tanks are border line unkillable

[agile saddle]

have you not played in the last week?

[spiral grove]

For the entirety of p1 and p2 yeah as tank only

up until rogue came out. you can hardly tell me otherwise

[agile saddle]

have yall touched the game since they reworked stats and gear last week?

[spiral grove]

uh-huh

been scrimming 16v16s

noice

[sly kite]

even if they arent doing 2.5k on an auto, attack. if 1.2k is an autoattack thats still alot of damage

[lament agate]

the above hit is 1 auto atk, 1300 auto + 1260 resonant weapon

[sly kite]

and thats current stats?

[lament agate]

that was after the "stat nerf" ya

[sly kite]

so 1/4 of a tanks health with an auto-attack

[lament agate]

tanks take about half that dmg

[sly kite]

1/10 on an autoattack is still alot

[lament agate]

ya, if u can stack resonance and not be stunned etc to actually do the combo

[spiral grove]

gg.

[lament agate]

thats 90% of bards damage tho

lullaby hits for like 140 dmg lol

[sly kite]

in a group fight you wont be the only one doing damage. so if you have even a couple other people you can liquify a tank

[lament agate]

na we did scrims, the best play is to just ignore tanks

theyre pretty annoying tho if they stun u constantly

[sly kite]

i didnt say you should, but if the tank was the person you were fighting at the moment

they can only stun so many people if you space out

[spiral grove]

1 stun the rest is trips

[sly kite]

and im assuming there is still the period of cc immunity after being cc'd

or i heard there was, because some people who left my guild told me not to just cc people because it would waste their damage openings

damn, bards are too weak fr, i think they need a buff

not even 1 tapping them

[lament agate]

dmg is pretty good, but did u also notice i heal for almost 2k lol

[spiral grove]

yeah man stop fking rooting cuz I can't shatter

SHARES THE SAME DR.

Tank rework when

I want a leap that works charge based and on impact stuns for 3secs

[sly kite]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-trip-kid-gif-11852450

[spiral grove]

😂

[sacred mango]

Isn’t that already the case

At least 1-20 I haven’t needed a tank a single time. Ive had situations where a tank is nice for sure but never needed a tank

[sly kite]

when im doing anything like seph or any decent farm, my group usually dies pretty quickly if i die

especially to bosses

[full oyster]

Umm so now with stat changes etc on gear . I wanted to start a cleric today to try it out . Only planning on leveling to 10 . What stat on gear etc should I focus on now

[candid briar]

also, only if you built up 6 debuffs beforehand. Otherwise you deal even less dmg, they really cut that ability hard with the "recent" bard nerf, from 15% additional dmg to 3% lol

[lament agate]

yup, feels pretty bad to play atm.
The only thing we have that does any dmg is our auto atks now lol
everything else is just a resonance generator

[candid briar]

I totally get that they had to cut down the resonant stacks from 50 to 10, its fine - but the lullaby stuff was completely unnessecary. Took out the buildup and identity of the skill

[normal lintel]

How do i get here on the weapon skill tree, I invest 9 points in the lower etc and it still wont let me.

[quick path]

Need invest in row prior

[cinder scaffold]

how is the fighter now?

better?

and what about the tank?

dubio between making fighter or tank

[high totem]

I have trouble staying in melee range in PvP fights as a fighter. Faster classes will just outrun you. Your trips require the target to already be under the effect of other debuffs, and your cripple effect also requires the application of other debuffs as well

I think fighter needs an additional snare applicator to be viable in PvP

Bard, rogue, mage, ranger can probably just kite you out for infinity

[umbral seal]

problem is the snare is this game is garbage. go full snare beetles and shit, they'll still walk up to you faster than you run.

[weak fjord]

absolutely
If fighter can tripped without the debuff staggered it would helps a lot

Against rogue and tank its hopeless xd

They just cc you to the death

[high totem]

probably could make chilled do something else and improve Snare to be a 50% movement reduction instead of chilled

[rigid hamlet]

#buffranger

[dusky plover]

i'd thnk snared would be akin to frozen

[maiden hearth]

Buff bard

[sinful bluff]

make ranger feel like ranger not feel and plays like a mage :p

[spiral grove]

Tank rework when?

[sinful bluff]

thats what there wokring on now according to steven

[vale saffron]

As long as that doesn't mean "make them a pet archetype" or some other garbage

[sinful bluff]

summoner be pet classes :p ranger just play immobile/slow like they toggle walk it make them feel like a caster than a ranger, summoner secndary might give u a pet if thats what somone want but base kit shouldnt

[agile saddle]

Ranger as a class is bad cause it revolves around a weapon in a game where everyone can use all weapons

[sinful bluff]

no it doesnt i use a physical wand for a long period of time worked well :p u can spell books too :p

less option though since physical books and wands are somewhat low options

is actuallyt pretty legit on a ranger :p lol

wand and books probaly have the most interesting weapon tree too compared to every other weapon seem to be standard

[agile saddle]

They could have made it a Druid and went into the nature and animal theme more instead of bow themed skills
They could change the bow skills to plant themed skills like vine whip, leaf storm, razor leaf

[sinful bluff]

druid sounbds like it be a class in the future tbh

ranger is more standard RPG class than druid so thats why we have ranger :p

[agile saddle]

They went halfway there with ranger

With vine field, and the animal theme skills

[agile saddle]

Druid is just as common as Ranger, but it’s actually good

[sinful bluff]

ranger in Everquest/DnD are what the went with rangers here it seems there both both related with nature magic as secondary

[agile saddle]

Closer to pathfinder than dnd

[sinful bluff]

didnt play pathfinder so not sure there

[agile saddle]

Ashes did start as a pathfinder campaign

[sinful bluff]

play a druid equip a energy wand on a ranger and go nuts 😛

if there was a physical dmg wand with additive dmg i would do it over a bow tbh :p

[agile saddle]

Ranger is currently worst archetype in game
They gotta do something to fix it

[sinful bluff]

it plays like a mage which is why hahaha :p if i wanted to play a mage i would play a mage

i find it funny as my ranger build i do more dmg not using my abilities

[agile saddle]

Which means everyone does equal by doing that too

[sinful bluff]

kinda and not quite

u do get the hunt buff that push u over slighly with aa dmg compared to other classes im sure other get bonuses like cleric radiant weapon though and mages enchant so not sure hwo wins out with their buffs for AA dmg

[agile saddle]

Bard, cause magic resist is harder to get than armour

[sinful bluff]

rangher truely are a shit show atm seem like them and tanks are only one needing major reworking

the other class kits feel good to play ranger tank not so much

[alpine garden]

Anyone here on bard that actually uses counter point? It's nice having two melodies playing but it feels kinda clunky where the end of the songs don't overlap and you essentially have to channel your new song before you old channel even ends to have two play concurrently.

Could easily be extended to 22-23 secs (if you have counterpoint skilled) so the channel time is included and you don't have to worry about uptime

[ionic plume]

Think some bards have a macro on their keyboard that alternates between both keybinds

[maiden hearth]

Current emotions regarding Bard:

[alpine garden]

?

[alpine garden]

I mean I guess but using a macro still doesn't solve the problem of it being clunky and having to cast it early to maintain two songs

[ionic plume]

Idk... Just what ive seem some of them do

[plucky ridge]

soon I hope... till then I will probably play some other games

[languid bronze]

I'm gonna put my bets on a Tank (and Cleric) rework before second archetype (full class) testing

[rigid hamlet]

A mage with half dmg and no shield you mean?

[candid briar]

it already is like that, my buff time is 23 seconds on the current channeling melody at max, and the melody cast time is 2s, so you get a full second you‘re allowed to miss basically
ofc it never play out like that cause if you get stunned/silenced/sometimes rooted etc your current channeling one stops, but for pve scenarios this works out fine

[blazing bobcat]

In which situations (PvE) do you play with 2 melody at a time ? When you are solo Bard ? Or even with 2 Bards ?
And is the bonus from the other choice (forgot the name) is negligible in order to always choose counter point ?

[alpine garden]

it's just about with the channel you just about get it but eh

[alpine garden]

The 50% bonus from crescendo is nice but I didn't need it for where I was farming. Swapping back between menacing and pensive was just better for extra dmg and you can still top up mana, I was overstacking everyone on mana anyway.

[blazing bobcat]

So in which situations do you use crescendo over counter point or the other way around ?

[alpine garden]

Most times with bard you're running pensive and you can easily top up mana with weapon combos while the song is running and increased mana healing with hymn of the mind from song mastery: harmony. I've never had a problem with people running out of mana so I can rotate songs (menacing, cathartic, cheerful) for extra healing/dmg which is better

[alpine garden]

what lvl are you? max or at least 20-ish?

[blazing bobcat]

22 but not stuffed

Juste want to learn more 🙂

[ruby pebble]

Fighter needs rework before tank although alot of their skills actually feel good unlike tanks, they provide ,0 value in pvp and all the top lvl guilds basically won't even allow a fighter in. they are basically a meme spec.

In a game that's about group play and benefiting one another you can't have a class that provides 0 benefit to the group.

They need to just finish fighters identity and make it the raid wiper, not saying it should wipe a raid but give it the ability to set up possible raid wipes.

Like a 6m AOE pull and then recently pulled targets can trip from whirlwind this finishes fighter as the all or nothing class and gives them a purpose in groups

If a large part of the community on high lvl pvp is on the basis of don't play x class and you can't get into most guilds if you are that class.

That's the class that needs rework first. All the arch types need to be in a good spot before they add 2 archetype.

[alpine garden]

Yea I mean not a lot of people use it because I will admit it is annoying to change song every 20 secs compared to just pressing it and forgetting about it. Honestly though I think it is better though in a lot of cases

[vale saffron]

Tank > Ranger > Fighter > Cleric is the order of needed reworks imo

[languid bronze]

since fighter was one of the first classes I'm sure the rework comes pretty soon, but since they stated they want to open up tank/cleric for actual combining into classes it makes sense they want they as fixed as they can for that test.
other things might have to sit bit back simply because of that no matter the need - but we don't know of course, stranger things have happened.

[ruby pebble]

It doesn't because all archetypes should be in a good state first. Combining archetypes should help enhance what's already there. Not be the fix when the base archetype is performing so poorly

And it's combining tank and cleric with all the other archetypes

So fighter can combine cleric or tank
Rogue can combine cleric or tank, etc

[languid bronze]

Yes, I know. that's why I'm betting they want Tank/Cleric to have a rework as soon as they can and then iterate on the older classes.

But I could be wrong - it's all conjecture. We don't even know exactly how the enhancement of the secondary archetypes work to create classes.

[clever wyvern]

you forgot mage

the bottom tier class at the moment

[vale saffron]

Balance issues != core archetype issues

The other archetypes need a rework from a "fun" AND class fantasy perspective. Mage is the best out of the older 5 archetypes

So if it were to be reworked it'd be way after the first 4

[clever wyvern]

cc break tied to mobility (blink) with 1 cc spell that has a 3 second cast time

meanwhile bards and rogues

and tanks

[vale saffron]

When I say rework, I don't mean "add a new spell here and there", I mean completely redesigning the archetype from the ground up in terms of feel and play

Tank and Ranger 100% need that. Fighter might not need one and be fine with just big changes to its current kit. Cleric I have no real input on as I don't play healers

[umbral seal]

• Sleep type * CC needs to get suspended lol. All it's serves is to grief people. I can't tell you how many people i've killed with CCs in this game and i never turn red.

Also CC breaks on any mobility ability or any debuff ability is a full on bad idea. There's a reason WoW didn't go this route and instead made dedicated items for this or a dedicated passive for this. If it was any other way outside of this, people would've complained about it.

[clever wyvern]

then yes i agree with you

just my mage bias, or rather ex-mage bias

[timber solstice]

LISTEN HERE STEVEN, MAKE MAGES GREAT AGAIN:

• Ball lightning moves at double its current speed, does old ball lightning damage procs
• Shell acts as a CC break
• Slumber is instant cast
• Arcane circle 30% dmge instead of 20%, increase size of animation by x2 to let ppl know mages mean business
• Make fireball actually do the same damage as 3 firebolts
• FIX THE MF CHAIN LIGHTNING DOUBLE HIT PERK
• Make blizzard GREAT AGAIN, I want double the diameter in range and I want anyone in my blizzards domain to have damaged doubled if chilled and tripled if frozen, since mobility sucks already with it, you may as well make us invincible and unable to move during cast (this one is satire)
• Make arcane eye last as long as rogue stealth
• LET US CAST WEAPON ENCHANT ON OURSELF
• Magma Field creates an exploding pillar like firestokers in forge, consume all burnings dots instantly at 50% additional damage
• If you stack all 3 enchantments in arcane circle, beam should do an additional 50% damage and have 25% more range
• Why can bards gravity jump but a mage can't? Make blink omidirectional
• Arcane volley is useless, reduce cast time by 50%, add 1 more volley hit
• Why can't hoarfrost freeze people already chilled? same with frostbolt....

[green charm]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/734944269466468465/986112080950226944/speechbrush.gif

[hollow cave]

Where is meteor

[ruby pebble]

Fighter rework needs to be first, and really is more of a update to its kit to make it useful since it's the only class in the game that guilds won't allow.

[zinc sierra]

Where is the blackhole thingy

[blazing bobcat]

I'm the first to be scared of using counter point ahah
But I dont know when to use it...
And you have to reactivate your melody every 20sec ?

[cloud gust]

Instead of ball lightning I'd rather something like "Static Field"

[zinc sierra]

mix ball lightning with the old blackhole

[candid briar]

might aswell just add a taunt skill into this list, and throw in some build in lifesteal on an element of choice while you‘re at it, oh and just give blink another 30m of distance cause then u dont even need to walk between halcy and win anymore

[agile saddle]

Fighters are good tho? Why would you not allow them?

A single fighter in the party increases the entire parties damage
Same with a single tank in the party gives everyone damage reduction

[clever wyvern]

Now you're cooking

[spiral grove]

YEAH you right, Talents. tell em.

Tank #1.

[spiral grove]

😂

Tank rework when?

[spiral grove]

I feel you

The fact that they haven't bothered fixing some of the current abilities just goes to show they did not care 😂 and are just aiming to do it with the rework instead

Which I hate because It made playing tank for the past 4 months atrocious

[sinful bluff]

arnt mages still kinda stone as even after changes :p

[sinful bluff]

steven already comfirmed it the next one jeeze 😛

[sinful bluff]

this i 100% agree with, fighter and cleric i think kit and playstyle feels like it in a good place though need number tweaks and minor changes,tank and ranger need fundemental changes to make them fun to play still :p

[spiral grove]

I know Im just impatient 😂

What I'm afraid of tho is that it won't come BEFORE p3 release and that's what will mess with a lot of people their decisionmaking

[sinful bluff]

seems like a month-2 motnh turn around on reworks/classes soooo maybe end of this month :p

[spiral grove]

even more so because the amount of people wanting to play tank has just no pun tended... tanked drastically over time

[sinful bluff]

the big thing needed before P3 tbh is the gathering changes cant have have resources static when a fresh start occurs

i wanna play ranger but atm my ranger = rogue or fighter cause they dont play like a mage 😛

[clever wyvern]

Mage is in a terrible spot right now

After the changes the glass cannon class can't glass cannon

[sinful bluff]

is it just mages or everyone i didnt play much this weekend ranger felt bad too i do more dmg with auto attacks :p

[spiral grove]

Nah mages definitely took a hit which I don't think was INTENDED

It could be due to previous nerfs on their spells and now it feels amplified

[sinful bluff]

tanks from what i heard win every 1v1 now appart from agaist clerics

[spiral grove]

while ranger got a rework/buff and Fighter always had cracked dmg just couldn't show it

nah

[clever wyvern]

I assume ranger is still awful but it still has some utility via root 😆

[spiral grove]

We lose against rogues too just cuz of mana drain

[sinful bluff]

root only thing keeping ranger viable tbh

[clever wyvern]

And since everyone has 30% lifesteal bows I assume they are enjoying that

[spiral grove]

Rangers been massively wanted for Lotharia 👀

We lack them quite a bit idk why

[sinful bluff]

i would rather have fighters and cleric instead of ranger they do the same job but better with a little bit of corordination

[spiral grove]

It sucks in 1v1s obvs but in group scale they're nice no?

but

No strider buff

[clever wyvern]

They have 1 good skill that's BiS for group pvp

[sinful bluff]

people lowkey sitting on fighter/cleric combo

[spiral grove]

Yeah

[clever wyvern]

Fighter is just a shit rogue

[spiral grove]

It's sad that that's the only class with insane AoE CC for group PvP

eh

I'd argue fighter prob does more dmg in group pvp over a group

will they live long enough to do that now? prolly, before? hell nah

[sinful bluff]

right now tbh im not focused on numbers/balance it how kits feel to play right now tank and ranger are the ones that kits feels bad to play

[ionic plume]

Fighter is great in group pvp. Like 2-8 people. High evasion. Good sustain. Good mobility.. its the raid on raid fights they lack st

[sinful bluff]

fighter with a cleric that can coordinate can be devistating :p

[clever wyvern]

Fighter servicable in 8v8 or less yes

[spiral grove]

If only tank kit was better/working as intended

[sinful bluff]

the issue is with any melee class in large scale fight u need all dps to be melee or non at all

[spiral grove]

I think Tank/Fighter would work in bigger scale too

yeah

too many scaredy cat habits from before I think

[clever wyvern]

Larger scale fighter just gets instagibbed

[sinful bluff]

like in a seige if it was 50 fighters on a side it will probaly work realy well since u cant focus them easily but u wont see 50 fighters on one side

[spiral grove]

even now during scrims 😂 when you're meant to push, ppl are scared they'll insta die

[clever wyvern]

Rogue can atleast caltrops poison a raid and drain mana

[spiral grove]

true but lets be real

fact that they left that skill untouched but nerfed soothing glow is a joke

[clever wyvern]

Mana drain is super OP in long ttk

[spiral grove]

especially with the mentality/base mana now

It's fking dumb

[sinful bluff]

if one guild rolled hard on fighters i think it be viable the issue it a all in or nothing when it comes to large scale

[spiral grove]

but it's such a cringe playstyle and disgusting

all you do is rat and drain mana

I cba with that type of playstyle

Give me back my soothing glow and nerf mana drain instead

[sinful bluff]

you summed up rogue play style they play like rats thats the essence of a rogue so they hit the mark there with them

[cunning jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/no-mana-gif-18293544

[spiral grove]

yeah but It's not a fun/engaging rat playstyle

It's just

drain, drain, drain

oh you oom? weeh lemme cc and stab you

[sinful bluff]

and i dont find stun locking somone to death all that fun too but look at wow rogues peopel love it

[spiral grove]

It's just dumb when ANY archetype can't fight back because they lack a core resource

yeah but rn

1 sleep doesn't kill you

1 trip doesn't kill you

[sinful bluff]

rogue players just like to torture people most of the time and it suites that type of player

[spiral grove]

1 off balance doesn't kill you

😂

idk I went from tank to rogue and I liked the old rogue more than this one

[sinful bluff]

you know what counters mana drain my build dadadaaa 😛

[spiral grove]

inb4 summoner is the counter to rogue

replenishes mana of allies

[sinful bluff]

game is being balanced around 8v8 where group comprised of 1 of each class :p sooo mana drain might get counted by having compitent bards for example

but no bard = rough time

there also refreshing followthrough and inerfire that people for what ever reason refuse to use in there weapon tree alot of the time

[spiral grove]

Isn't the bard mana song/thingy different now?

where you have to auto with a melee wep to get mana back

[sinful bluff]

they had a couiple type of mana skills when i last looked

they got the aoe song and then they got the single target version too

they got a melody for mana and then a hymm (single target or AoE) option

not sure if they been changed at all though

[spiral grove]

hmm

[clever wyvern]

Bard diff is a thing

[spiral grove]

maybe Im thinking of something else idk

[clever wyvern]

Win rate goes up exponentially per bard

[spiral grove]

Ik my bards call it now when they are popping their mana shit and you gotta melee auto

to get back a phat amount of mana

[flat shuttle]

Then rogue bard just gives your poison benefits to allies;)

[sinful bluff]

roguie bard you have a poison and you have a poison everyone has apoison lol

[spiral grove]

JUST FIX TANK MAN

So help me If they somehow undercook with the rework

I'll be a perma rogue rat with an alt ranger

[sinful bluff]

and ranger, ranger need to ranger atm devs seem to think ranger = archer aswell most games tend to have melee skills too on there ranger/hunter class :p

[sinful bluff]

rogue ranger is better p

[spiral grove]

I was looking back at some Aion clips of PvPing and stuff and man 😂 the AMOUNT of skills that are missing and sure we're ONLY lvl 25

but give the ranger a knockback arrow for in 1v1's, instantly increases their odds of "outplaying" another class

[sinful bluff]

right now kits just need to feel fun and right i think they check that box for all but tank/rangers after ktis feel good to play then they should be going about adjusting numbers

[sinful bluff]

they need longer range tbh so they can outplay with the range gap

also helps with class identity

[spiral grove]

well yes and no 😂 I mean if you do that. melee's will never stand a chance

I just want there to be more skill expression

[sinful bluff]

fighters have 4 gap closers sooooo

[spiral grove]

rn outplaying some1 is a joke

[sinful bluff]

fighter = 4 30m gap closers

[spiral grove]

really 4?

I thought they only had charge and leap

maybe I should make a fighter actually

while im bored

[sinful bluff]

they can reset cooldowns with bezerk

[flat shuttle]

Yeah. But fighter still has to proc a stagger for their trip right?

[spiral grove]

yeah

[flat shuttle]

Meanwhile rogue just press a button.

[sinful bluff]

well u can incompacitpate them instantly then stagger trip :p

[ionic plume]

RANGEr... They should have at least a little bit more range when using the same bow the fighter is using. Not like insane amount but maybe 5m

[sinful bluff]

blitz into knock out

[ionic plume]

Getting staggered on target is easy and usually one of the range classes have already applied it before the fighter gets in range

[sinful bluff]

10m i think would be fine

can put the range bonus in the talent tree so they need to spend a skill point if uwanted

[ionic plume]

Blue stance bis for pvp ince you dont need the stagger anymore.. health regen, 25% cc avoidance, 15% damage avoidance

[sinful bluff]

15% evasion does sound good

shame there not many ways to get magic evasion

[ionic plume]

Yeah.. with sorrows edge im at 51% physical evasion

[sinful bluff]

if ur running full leather u get another 5% evasion too

problem is most dmg type is magic atm and there not a good chunk of magic evasion on any pieces

[ionic plume]

Mmhm

[sinful bluff]

couple physical pieces that give 500-1k evasion for physical but magic only like 100 tops

[ionic plume]

Imagine something like fighter/cleric or fighter/mage might get some type of magic damage mitigation

[sinful bluff]

mushroom hat secretly OP

i dunno what the conversion rating is like anymore though

use to be 100 to 1%

like crit and crit power

there a few stats that i think might be underrated atm everyoen too focused on power

[ionic plume]

Blood fusions augment gives you 25% damage reduction also when under 50%

Plenty of things to make em good in group stuff.

[sinful bluff]

there great in groups

people complain there bad cause they try and seige with them but unless ur running 30-40 fighters in a 100v100 u dont have enough people going into melee at once so they get focused

[ionic plume]

Lots of bad fighters just smashing buttons and not following some type of thought process

[sinful bluff]

any time large scale pvp is a thing melee get 2 options swap to a new class or have enough of them in the fight that u can all bombard them causing chaos so u cant be focused

[flat shuttle]

Okay but hear me out.
I don't want a mushroom on my head 😦

[sinful bluff]

there hide hat now :p

just make a mushroom cult and everyone wear it that way u dont stand out :p

[flat shuttle]

Ooh. Okay maybe I go get this.
I'm doing a 5pc heavy 3pc med on my rogue atm.
I'd love to get some more evasion.
Nothing like almost 6k hp on a rogue 🤣

[sinful bluff]

8 piece leather pretty good for evasion though :p if u get decent quality shame leather impossible to get atm :p

im just gonna frick around with an additive dmg shortbow rogue i think with P3

p;retend im a ranger

shame additive dmg geasr is the hardest gear pieces in the agme to get lol

[clever wyvern]

3 pc heavy is too strong to consider anything else

7.5k hp 55% mit rogue gang

[sinful bluff]

3 piece heavy 5piece leather usualy my go too since i like the stam regen

[clever wyvern]

Is the stam regen actually noticeable

[sinful bluff]

its reasonable

[ionic plume]

Daum haven't seen someone with that much hp yet

[sinful bluff]

and movement speed issue sis u kinda want purple set bonus whuch is impossible with leather drops 😛

[alpine garden]

Yea when your song ends you have to play the 2nd one or you'll just have one playing the whole time. Honestly it's good but it is kinda monotonous going back and forth

[clever wyvern]

Max hp is too strong rn, pieces just casually having 500-800 max hp is unreal in this high ttk environment

Vendor food giving 700 hp

All the sustain classes have its a battle of mana bars instead of hp bar

[flat shuttle]

That sounds gross. But also how much phys power?

[sinful bluff]

vendor food needs to go :p

tbh

[clever wyvern]

I hover around 200-210

Good enough, before the diminishing returns spike - gear budget gets spread to dex/mit/hp

The 1200 mit rating necklace from desert is so crazy

[flat shuttle]

Ive been curious what the good dr breaks are.
5.7k hp 234 phys here

[sinful bluff]

wonder if health regeneration could be useful not sure what ratio are like probaly terrible if ranger regen aything to go byu

[clever wyvern]

No health regen is faking awful

[flat shuttle]

I put on 2k worth. Garbo stat

[clever wyvern]

They ruined my tumok sword with that bs

[flat shuttle]

Added like 6hp regen

[sinful bluff]

ok bout what i expected when ranger regen is like 10hp asecond

[flat shuttle]

I should've put that in my feedback. Regen could use a solid look.

[violet lantern]

i have made a lot of 1v1 test with my ranger, the only class making problem to me is rogue, the feint reset when backstab is just broken, he can follow you everywhere, everytime, and counter vine root

no outplay possible

it seems logit than a rogue destroy a ranger but still frustrating

and there is a huge problem with targeting and stealth now

[sinful bluff]

this might be lowkey realy good depending on ratio on evasion

[flat shuttle]

Not really imo.
I'd rather just the Winstead cloak there.
Get double the hp and 750 phys power

[sinful bluff]

i dont factor in citizen cloaks into build since u have to be citizen of node i cant garaneed ill be that node citizen (i would assume being able to leave and keep it equiped is a bug atm)

[flat shuttle]

I have not fought a single ranger yet.
They have left the server apparently.

[flat shuttle]

Fair enough.

[sinful bluff]

sound like guild want to go tropic node which is an unknown cloak wise for me atm :p

[violet lantern]

i don t know why, it still a good archetype, could be better but still really fun, it s my main class ahah

but really trash in pve

[sinful bluff]

if i wanted to play a mage i would play a mage 😛

[violet lantern]

yes they need to make ranger more dynamic ahah

like i never use snipe in pvp cause i just CANT

[sinful bluff]

it plays nothing like a ranger its just a bad mage atm (well might be better now i heard mages git hit with gear rebalance) but everyone complaining bout no dmg

[sinful bluff]

i dont even use skill i do more dmg auto attacking as a ranger

[violet lantern]

for now, i play longbow but i keep thinking than in ranger, shortbow is better

more synergy with spell

[sinful bluff]

i cant stand longbows cause it feeling like u fighting with RP walking activated
i tried once but swapped back to dunzen shortbow

[flat shuttle]

I'm trying to source some money to go try a leggo shortbow out. SUPER curious how it feels with ttk.

[violet lantern]

same i have epic bis longbow but it s booooring

i prefer shortbow, look more like legolas gameplay ahah

[sinful bluff]

i have lego dunzen shortbow and epic bloodshot long bow or what ever carph one called

[flat shuttle]

I think i want to try a bloodshot shortbow

[sinful bluff]

i can atleast feel more like a ranger than a mage with shortbow since im not stuck in walk animation

[violet lantern]

true

quick Survey, witch archetype you will choose for p3 if there is a fresh wipe ?

Mage

Ranger

Tank

Fighter

Cleric

[sinful bluff]

rogue with a bow aka the only class that feels like a ranger when u play it

[violet lantern]

Rogue

Bard

[sinful bluff]

im being legit btw :p

roanger is no joke :p

[violet lantern]

yeah rogue with bow is huge

[ionic plume]

Going cleric this go around so I can swap its gear to summoner when it comes out 😅

[violet lantern]

nice strategy ahah

[sinful bluff]

^ cleric gonna be my other one for same reason

[violet lantern]

with ttk change, cleric look like the best class atm

[sinful bluff]

just need a useful fighter in my guild for the stupid cleric combo

[ionic plume]

If they increase leveling speed beyond just slaughtering shardlings for 20 levels I'll make fighter my alt this time instead of main