alpha-two-archetype-chat

[burnt thicket]

I notice it working really well with the shortbow - not as great on the longbow. Have you noticed this?

[lilac rampart]

i see. I mean its good that you found someway of depth in the healing but for me the charged heal feels like just another heal without any connection to other heals

[verbal osprey]

I’d love to see more combinations of skills to add defensive depth. We have some offensive combos already.

[lilac rampart]

yeah and those correspond with other stuff like for example divine flare + consecrating wave is -50% magic mitigation which leaves mages open to go for the kill etc:) (not exactly sure on the numbers) but i hate that there is nothing on defensive) on the other hand tho...we have a too fast TTK too actually do anything regarding defensive heals i reckon

[random blaze]

You know they don't have all those at the same time? It is a choice and what you give up to get. A bard does not have 100% of what others have (DPS of a mage, movement of a ranger, heals of a cleric) just a little bit of each and then not at the same time.

[clear grove]

After about 300 1v1,s and 2v2,s without a single win against the bard, speaks for itself lol.

[umbral seal]

https://tenor.com/view/get-lost-world-penguin-day-predator-in-paradise-get-outta-here-begone-gif-21963012

[royal token]

yes, bard single target damage + all its other options are perfectly balanced currently. lets not change anything

[crimson tundra]

You just dont have rhythm.

[clear grove]

Says the Bard who whoops on me weekly and laughs about it 🤣 remember nyx with a level 17 bard?? Let's not discuss that one..... 😅

[lament agate]

Is the game suppose to be balanced around 1v1 tho?

[clear grove]

It's not no,

A lvl 17, shouldn't be an issue for a lvl 25 of any class.. a lvl 17 geared bard can beat a lvl 25 geared cleric every day of the week... 😆

I've got video..

[lament agate]

Not tryin to be rude but this sounds like a skill issue lol

[umbral seal]

Geared bard wands doing 2k auto attack dmg. Spell longbow doing more. Tanks and Fighters have 5k hp +/-, every one else has 4k +/-. There is no discussion here.

[clear grove]

Icehouse can vouge, it's not a skill issue 😃

[lament agate]

Rangers hitting for 6k+ but ya, bards need a nerf i think.

[clear grove]

It'll all come together in due time. I think steven said the bard is set to be deleted from the history book in a couple weeks.. or maybe I dreamed that last night? I can't remember.

[lament agate]

Wand finisher(The Beam one) is bugged, it procs two resonant weapons.

[umbral seal]

Doesn't change much. Geared clerics able to defeat geared mages with auto attacks.. What we're talking about isn't completely a class issue, it's weapons too.

[umbral seal]

I've seen really geared rangers kill geared mages with 1 barrage while the mage's barrier shell ability w/e it's called is up so yea kinda crazy atm.

[lilac rampart]

Its weird so many people think the bard is that OP i mean yes it can switch easily between stuff but on lvl 50 at launch i doubt the switches between skills are as easy. Meaning you have a mana orientated bard or a shielding bard.

I can be mistaken tho

I am just here because i want some cleric love and make the spells more aligned hahaha

I mean the real issue i have with any class and i take clerics as example is that nothing really feels alligned. Cleric has the biggest issue as its healing and the offensive classes do compliment eachother in one way or another

But I miss for clerics the:

apply heal A and heal B crit chance increases or Heal C extends for 10 seconds instead of 5 seconds

[daring sentinel]

as a bard player who played as a cleric only for 10 levels or so you have my sympathies, AoC Cleric is the most boring healer/support class I have ever tried in any MMORPG.

[lilac rampart]

Well thank you hahaha I am WISHING for more fun but I am considering going dps just because of it. And having faith they are changing it somehow in the future

[daring sentinel]

Cleric in AoC feels like the Intrepid's class designers are suffering from a selective amnesia and have no recollection of developments in design of actually FUN support classes we have seen across the last 30 years of MMOs.

[lilac rampart]

I mean i have faith still but yeah I am thinking of going dps in phase 3 just because of current absence of depth gameplay

[rigid mortar]

Tank Archetype:

Ground pound, tremoring, reflect, tomahawk, vengeance. All are trips/stun which share the same diminishing return cooldown of course. Would you like to see 1-2 switched to an immobilize or snare? Let me know

[daring sentinel]

you already have a snare?

[barren forum]

You can switch tremoring to a snare 😛

[rigid mortar]

Yes by taking the non optimal upgrade of your main interupt

[barren forum]

Yeah single target tank is optimal hence why struggles in group content if you aren't pushing hard

[daring sentinel]

right so you basically want everything? Learn some gratitude, who are you? Some kind of a bard?

[glad cloak]

Rangers and mages already DR each other on roots. Already can’t run too snare heavy or mages can’t get freeze procs because no more chills

I don’t think tanks need 5 hard CC abilities. 3, along with chain, wall, and their 5 (whatever) absorbs are enough. They need TTK fixed so they can flex the full kit. I’d wait before doing any changes. If anything - make the existing abilities work. Chain sucks, and wall is great but too short, etc. make the redirected damage get affected by the tanks mitigation.

90% of the complaints around tank are bug fixes and making them enjoyable to play - not their utility + impact (TTK and bug fixes would help)

[daring sentinel]

tank actually tanking would be nice

[sacred thorn]

Just delete rangers

https://tenor.com/view/pedro-pascal-gif-22055472

[glad cloak]

The tanks redirecting damage and being tanky would be pretty huge. I’d look another direction if you want group value than even more hard CC. Wounds, or some of the other debuff types, etc. options for more weaken / humiliates, there are a ton of choices

Other PvP thing is that being airborne from bard jump makes it hard to hit flying people with swords. Idk how they wana balance underwater combat which would also be somewhat similar.

[naive hearth]

What level are you? And are you doing pvp

[lilac rampart]

25 and from time to time but the TTK is quite bad so you dont rlly have time for rotations but in PVE rotations arent that exciting

[naive hearth]

Well if you're looking for really long and hard rotations, you won't find them in any class. Good luck with your search though. There is still 25 levels coming, but that's a long way to go. If you want to make the "perfect rotations", wand or use book buffs and play with those procs if you want ur class to be harder in PvE. In pvp it's way too early to tell or what to do

[elder talon]

Ground Pound, Tremoring, and Vengeance should stay as-is.

I’d like to see Tomahawk reworked to be a little like Ranger’s Scatter Shot—you charge it over time to increase the damage and range and throw it in a straight line, snaring everything in its path for a duration that scales as it charges, and add a 1s immobilize at max charge. Give it a pretty long cooldown (25+ seconds) to avoid bleeding too much into other classes kits. Maybe add a tiny little hop forward to the end at full charge to simulate the release.

I’d opt for just deleting the Trip Reflect from the tree entirely and rebuilding Reflect as an ability designed to give you mana sustain without a Bard. The whole ability feels weird, clunky, and unrewarding because it wants you to get hit intentionally by something big when realistically you just dodge those. I’d prefer to see Reflect morphed into an ability like a cooldown where you restore mana and extra courage for a short duration when getting hit. I’m imagining vibe/class fantasy of something along the lines of “I feel no pain, your hits just make me stronger, I am invincible, bring it on.” Maybe a 30 or 60s cooldown with a 3-5s duration that gives you back mana and substantial extra courage while it’s active.

While you’re at it, if you could find some sort of way to make the skill trees for weapons that have Stagger as an option less clunky for Tank, that would be cool. At the moment it’s honestly just kind of meh that for a decent number of weapons Tank functionally has no choice on finisher because one of them does Stagger.

But more generally yes absolutely having a zillion skills with overlapping DRs is annoying. And I’d also like to see the team avoid adding more abilities that break the auto attack flow. I want to be triggering my auto attacks and Reflect is pointless/annoying because of that, as are a decent number of other abilities.

[lilac rampart]

Which is also why im pondering of going dps as it is still not reallyyyy a rotation but atleast dps is somewhat triggered with one another.

And i dont need a massive rotation that I can keep up for hourssss but it would be fun to see more defensive type of healing then what clerics currently god

[sacred thorn]

I think you are wanting high priest gameplay which isnt available yet.

[barren forum]

I like the idea of tomahawk, reflect is your average skill based counter, i think the move is fine as is. They designed stagger to actually work well with fighter who loves stagger status effects so i could see them polishing the class duo a bit more

[lilac rampart]

High priest is cleric cleric innit?

[sacred thorn]

yep.

[lilac rampart]

Interesting then I will have faithhhh in the cleric and make an dps alt😈 thank youuu

[naive hearth]

What spells do you consider being defensive heals?

The ones cleric doesn't have but you would want

[elder talon]

Reflect might work okay in another system but the auto attack combo system makes it feel really awkward and bad

[barren forum]

it really depends how much your dmg cap is, a good 450 power tank scares everyone with reflect

[elder talon]

Oh sorry I should’ve clarified. I could absolutely believe it’s reasonable in PvP, even if it’s super situational. I’m talking about PvE.

[glad cloak]

Auto attack chains is its own whole discussion. Like everything breaks it almost. And some stuff is really reliant on it like bards and short bows for example

[barren forum]

in pve i still would like to see how multi-classing effects counter as its definitely a cookie cutter skill that you could add a bit of flavor to with subclasses

[daring sentinel]

Heh, combo attacks and bards. Just wait when they introduce Rogue. I bet they will make melodies uninterruptable as a result fairly quickly.

[lilac rampart]

Soorhing glow combined with something else ahhh and what clerics doesnt have what i want is

Add soothing glow to ally and next judgement on ally does +2% healing or something

[unkempt badger]

#give fighters a ranged skill

or reduce ttk so fighters have a chance to go in

Or buff fighter defense

or give fighter a utility skill (for example Ranger vines, rogue caltrops, tank wall, tank grapple)

[sinful bluff]

looks like shortbow rangers are no longer gonna be viable with new changes pretty much anything a shortbows ranger relied on was removed and added more skill that favored longbow builds :p guess wwere all gonna be cookie cutter longbows now

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs confirmed yet?

[umbral seal]

no more machine gun ranger? so sad haha

[sinful bluff]

everyone gets to play the same thing now :p

main skills for shortbows
Barrage = Severely gutted
Mark of raven = removed

[umbral seal]

Rip all the arrowstorm rangers

[gentle panther]

No

[sinful bluff]

wont effect 95% of rangers i guess most use longbows 😛 i realy wanted to try and test additive dmg shortbows but guess i dont have to worry bout getting that shit now haha saves me getting the hardest to get items :p

[umbral seal]

The meta did change to shortbows after people realized that letting arrowstorm procs....did better than longbows regardless of the power it gave. In a way glad it changed, in another way abit sad because chain scattershots bugged less with shortbows

[sinful bluff]

only for pve in pvp agaist people who know what there doing it just makes the enemy stronger 😛

ranger barrages people be like yes i get full stamina bar back again

[glad cloak]

If fighters get a ranged skill then rangers get a melee skill that makes everyone in melee range explode

[spiral grove]

Can we justg give tank a dive in skill?

like a hulk smash AoE that stuns people in a radius for 3secs?

make it vine field radius

fighter leap range

boom

suddenly we can have impact

[sinful bluff]

nope fighters get that skill so u cant have it :p

maybe if u take fighter as secondary u might get something like that :p

[umbral seal]

in4 melee hunter wins tournament repeat

[sinful bluff]

crowfall had best ranger tbh :p

[spiral grove]

So what you want us to stick with a non-existing hook? or a wall that doesn't even render and feels like a joke in mass-scale pvp? pls

The fact that the hook STILL hasn't been fixed or any addressing been made regarding it seriously makes me doubt that the tank archetype will become relevant at all

[sinful bluff]

that hook needs to be a skill shot tbh when it works 100% of the time

[spiral grove]

Naaah not when It's single target

It doesn't have that much impact especially in these ridiculous mass pvp fights

also it should already be working 100% of the time wym

[sinful bluff]

it a no skill instant kill button if ur doing it right in large scale

[spiral grove]

Sure

But lets be real here

Even if you're doing it right. there's a 20s cd on it. you got to get fairly close in range and It's 1 person out of again mass scale pvp

1 out of 16? 1 out of 40? etc

[woeful atlas]

yo saw a picture the other day saying rogue releases on the 27th, that real or bs?

[maiden hearth]

Steven and dates mixes like water and oil.

But he did indeed claim that

[woeful atlas]

fo sho didnt know if it was real so

[toxic basin]

#alpha-two-bugs-issues-old message

[slow mauve]

Anyone like Cleric judgment skill with healing performance also dmg_?
İf u use Essence Infusion with Judgment is hard to use.
Divine Infusion with It's okay to have Judgment or not. (Deliverance+ Passive enough)
Am I the only one who thinks this way?

[sacred thorn]

Wanna log in so i can see how bad ranger is now.

[umbral seal]

gotta wait 11-12 hours. Downtime included.

[sacred thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/npc-behavior-be-like-gif-10607292567092564523

[lilac rampart]

I dont rlly understand what you are referring to, and i play cleric avidly sorry. If i understand question better i might be able to help

[slow mauve]

I meant, do you find the Judgement skill useful?

[lilac rampart]

I find it vert usefull. But i use divine infision where i basically make judgement an instant cast rather then a cast with a casting timer

This way it becomes an instant full heal. And i basically rotate between heals and utilize mend and auto attack so i always have the power to reduce the cast

And on dps its a good opener and as im opening i can start the first punch

[quick path]

im still trying to figure out the issue people talking about with tank hook like for me it works as it should unless im doing something that cancels the skill before grab or before pull animation is completed.

[sinful bluff]

people complain it doesnt work all the time but i know skills from peopel kits stop the pulls which i think is intended actions but they might see it as a bug and isnt workinh

like tanks complain all the time when they try and pull me as a ranger but they dont relise call of the wild lasts 15 seconds and makes u immune to it and movement skills such as scatter shot and disenage also prevents pull it seems

[quick path]

thats what im thinking. is its just a lack of clear understanding of what is situationally going on. for a while i thought there was a bug where melodys were turning off but it was just getting interrupted do to certaint skills from atackers

[sinful bluff]

like it seem to be classes as a movement imparing skill from what i see and atleast in ranger kits there alot movement imparing prevention

for fighters i dont think u can be pulled whilke berzering, lunging assult, leapstiked, blitz. main and cataclysm might also be included i havant tested fighter to much

forced movement skills seem to negate every form of CC while it doing the action, kinda annoying people just charging through root fields or bear traps 😛

[main bramble]

What ranged weapon do you like use with a cleric? Does it really matter?

[lilac rampart]

Wand or book cus of the perfect timing proc

[ebon lava]

still no rogue?

[signal flame]

Check back next week

[ebon lava]

❤️

[quartz osprey]

anyone whos played rogue got any tips for us since next week we got rogue?(if its not allowed all g)

[torn imp]

I'm sure people have videos ready to go once they get green lights

[quartz osprey]

ah ok

[pliant mortar]

I think this beauty of this game, you can build it how ever you like. A Magical Long bow or Magical Shortbow for me is pretty fun to play with, even put the scepter aside to play with a magical sword.

[barren forum]

hopefully in beta they focus on balancing that factor, lots of potential

[gentle panther]

Hey, anyone know why the Tank's Iron Aura is a castable buff? Why not just make it a passive. there is no upside to not having it or downside to having it.

[glad cloak]

So you can make fun of people who don’t turn it on after they relog

But yeah I see no reason for it to not always be on. Unless they want to add more options for auras in the future, with options of empowering one or having multiple on at once etc

[barren forum]

Does it still randomly deactivate?

I think it was cause your party size changed or something

[gentle panther]

I have seen it randomly pop off. It’s odd.

[sacred thorn]

optimal longbow skill tree?

[humble cliff]

Could someone explain to me why the decision was made to remove the toggle for Grit on the Tank? Toggle made the most sense for a warrior, and not having to span it or forget to use it instead, a Tank should be able to set tank mode and do his/her job.

[agile saddle]

so tank players can play with more than 1 tank in the group, without screwing up agro

[green charm]

that's not how grit works or the purpose of grit u chimp

why would somebody who isn't tanking even need to toggle grit on

[agile saddle]

if the first tank dies, the second tank starts using grit and also try and take over agro

[green charm]

grit doesn't affect agro generation though

[barren forum]

B4 grit would be a tradeoff of dmg vs mitigation but now it's active resource usage to gain mitigation over using slam for damage. Only thing that sucks is that it's a 2 stack that drops both stacks if you mess up pressing the button within 10 seconds every 10 seconds

[green charm]

Yeah it's straight up garbage to use now

[daring sentinel]

plenty of stacking buffs would feel better if they dropped off stack by stack instead of all at the same time

[umbral seal]

More like the fighter jumps in and saves the day.

[humble cliff]

Could not agree more.

[maiden hearth]

This truly is just tank chat huh

Never seen any other class being discussed

[sleek forge]

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/66878/shields-block-chance-is-fundamentally-breaking-the-tank-archetype/p1?new=1

Help make tanks/shields good again

[sweet anchor]

It use too I miss og grit hopefully things change inthe future r.i.p tank

[carmine stratus]

Is rogue out yet

[languid bronze]

I didn't play the tank back then (because I wasn't on the alpha by then) so I don't rightly know how it was before - but at the moment I don't really feel Grit is worth pressing over Slam, or am I crazy?

[spiral grove]

Any tank buffs yet?

[spiral grove]

it is worth for defense reasons especially if you're doing big pulls

grit is still a good skill. It's just annoying to use.

[languid bronze]

What I don't get is why it's 2x10% DR. I don't think it would break anything if it's a 1x20% DR with the same cost as one use.

[spiral grove]

Yup

True.

[umbral shale]

It's not even 2x10, since it suffers from mitigation curve

It's like 8%

[halcyon crescent]

the problem with tanks is that once you make them surviving big hits from mega bosses, they become OP in PvP :/ (ref. WoW)

[lilac rampart]

Thats because tanks in wow outheal healers. You can make a strong tank but make it reliable on healers for actual survival

[daring sentinel]

"content padding" I would say someone realised tank isnt that exciting to play, so they gave tanks a button to press every 10 seconds or so.

[glad cloak]

Excited to try out the ranger changes. Hopefully the Shortbow changes won’t make it null

Power shot being 35m is interesting choice

[alpine sonnet]

What shortbow changes?

[glad cloak]

https://ashescodex.com/news/ptr-patch-notes-0-7-0-naval-combat-rogue-daggers-node-sieges

[pliant mortar]

Ships for real! yes

[sinful bluff]

tbh think they gutted shortbow going by patch notes and buffed longbows just looking at ranger changes. shortbow relied heavily on resetting barrage asap which can no longer be done and the new skills seem to favor longbows but we find out.
the shortbow changes i suspect is gonna involve barrage too

find out next weekend i guess but i suspect im hanging up the shortbow

[thin ingot]

Clerics. what is your MP and healing stats pls. wondering what the 'good' numbers are?

[zinc sierra]

If you over 460 you already good, if you are over 500 you will just feel Bad when your heal Crit for 4x the max life of someone

[little lark]

Thursday, my life begins

[dire coral]

If your Rogue life begins thur you are late to the party. Some of us where born Rogue

[little lark]

I’ve mained rogue in every game since 2014

[dire coral]

March 16, 1999

[glossy pumice]

But what about a rogue with a greatsword? I wanna do that 😝

[dire coral]

Back stab gonna go hard like that

[glossy pumice]

Should be fun lol

[dire coral]

Ambush from stealth with mace for extra stun........

[tulip grotto]

My favorite is still rogues with small single hand crossbows

[burnt thicket]

Still waiting for the release of dual-wielding shields (never happening, or something in the works for AoC). I'll reroll tank.

[dire coral]

https://tenor.com/view/sml-pillow-fort-party-partying-pillow-forts-gif-25995084

[serene robin]

Still waiting for Fighters to not be complete garbage in Raid vs Raid.
Literally all you have to do is give us a mitigation buff on Battle Cry.

Should just be a scaling mitigation buff for every enemy affected by Battle Cry up to 50% max (5% per player) for 5 seconds.

So need to actually jump into the middle of 10+ people to get the full mitigation out of it, which is where we die the most, jumping in to actually do damage. And then where we are strongest which is smaller grp combat or solo, it doesn't provide as much.

All you have to do to fix Fighter atm. Waiting for TTK changes, isn't going to do anything. Going from 1 second TTk to 10 seconds for example, still means we jump in and die immediately.
I welcome the TTK changes, but we need a mitigation and tying it to Battle Cry (the ability we use to debuff grps of players, seems like the most logical choice) and it also leaves us with the choice of having to use our CC break for mitigation, which having to have to make that choice is good.

You also have Rogue coming out now, which is essentially a better fighter is what it seems like with less AOE and more potential to be useful in Raid vs Raid, still can be killed instantly when jumping in, but has way more defensives and escapes than Fighter, just less actual AOE bombs.

[quick path]

All these posts me me me this class sucks. It's group content. And archetype combo not out yet chill

Triumph 5% mitigation and evasion
Glee 1% mitigation
emboldened 20% mitigation node defense 20% mitigation.
That's just between a heal bard and town defense 46% mitigation in buffs.

[serene robin]

@quick path Doesn't mean they can't apply simple balance changes that actually make the class useful in group combat.

All other classes useful.

We've seen a myriad of passes between a number of classes including fighter. None of them have addressed the core of the issue. Most guilds don't even want Fighters in raids or remove them first when raid gets full and this is the time where data is useful for them to make these passed and changes and balance.

Not asking for a total set of new abilities, animations, effects, etc.
I understand its Alpha and its a WIP, but there's something to be said about actually addressing the issues when character passes come to make the character fun to play in all avenues of gameplay.

Also no matter what group/town buffs are applied, its not enough and not reliable enough to actually be meaningful, they need their own mitigation, not being fully reliant on others.

Also nobody is going to be prepping the raid around the fighters, your going to prioritize all buffs around the ranged that are diving in because they are the ones doing the damage.

[quick path]

So what I'm hearing is your part of a non strategic group that open field fights 🤔

Or that ranged is way overpowered with lack of melee closers to be useful.

Or possibly that it's just a continued issue of waterfall stats and horrible ttk

I mean if you want more mitigation could rerolled fighter as tank xD

[serene robin]

Its simply just bad class design for group content.
No coordination would overcome the instant death that awaits you everytime you jump into a group.

Whether the TTK is 1 second or 10 seconds wouldnt matter. Its melee jumping into melee/ranged.

Having 20 people on you instantly as you jump in with AOEs still means death.
And nobody is asking for general mitigation, just a cooldown that can be spent, as most other fighters / melee have in most other games.

[flat shuttle]

DO IT NO BALLS

[flat shuttle]

This is why in the 8v8 tournament we tried to bring fighters in. It definitely showcased their strength in backlining but we still had times where they were simply outclassed by some of the ranged classes.

[flat shuttle]

This seems a bit high in my opinion.
I'm with you on the topic though.
Tank we only get 20ish percent after the calculations. I'd hate to see tanks be better fighters and fighters be better tanks.

[serene robin]

Right.. I mean when a Fighter dives in, your now at the mercy of the healer, which is fine.. But the fighter can also be outmaneveured by just moving back and sniping him down. In a 8v8 setting you can do well still with a fighter if the play is synced and coordinated very well and play to the Fighters strengths. But in a raid vs raid scenario, the fighter actually has no strengths compared to other classes, they are effectively useless.

The point is having a cooldown to pop to survive a small window to be slightly disruptive, not to maintain that mitigation for a very long time.

[flat shuttle]

I do think your umm berserk i think that reduces damage from affected enemies is nice no?

[serene robin]

No, Blood Fusion does, but you will rarely ever pop it below 50% health when diving into a raid. Youll pre-pop it so that your hits heal you.

But I mean, ur still dying in 1 second anyway.

[flat shuttle]

I guess my thought was that demoralize is pretty solid of a ability.
Similar to tanks taunting someone so they get humiliated.

[quick path]

i think the common issue here is the combined statement that range is currently higher powered/better situated esspecially in aoe matters. typicall aoes should be weaker then single targets. so again the jist is not the fighter class but outside sources holding the playability back in group content.

[mossy jungle]

this is all a factor that stems to ttk being so low

[serene robin]

Really has nothing to do with TTK

[mossy jungle]

how so?

low ttk means there is nothing you can do when diving in

[serene robin]

20 people nuking a fighter in melee position because thats the only way he can do meaningful damage outside of bowing from ranged with 1 sec TTK = instant kill and with 10 sec TTK = instant kill.

Im also not saying fighter should be able to survive that onslaught ALL the time. But they should be able to use some sort of cooldown to mitigate some of that damage for a short duration, enough to do some meaningful damage and get back out or die.

[quick path]

still sounds like a combination of issues not specifically with the fighter class its self

[serene robin]

Not really, its an issue with ranged vs melee and the design of the class to handle that interaction.
Tank has designs to counter this with certain things like reflect, mitigation, cooldowns, etc. Which makes sense because a tank is a tank and should mitigate more effectively.

Fighters have literally nothing outside of Blood Fusion, which doesn't work when your dead.

Rogue is going to have a cloak of shadows and smoke bomb, and a plethora of escapes/vanishes.

[quick path]

mhmm and tell me how does tank preform compared to fighter in these raids?

[serene robin]

You have chains to pull people in to get killed, you can defensivelly mitigate for the raid. You can survive a bit more and reflect certain attacks, and you generally can build more toward mitigation and less toward damage and just be a nuisance on the field.

If a fighter is not doing damage, and not building toward damage, then they shouldn't even be there to begin with.

[mossy jungle]

fighters should be hitting people who are out of position

[serene robin]

like on the sides? what do you mean.

[quick path]

didnt ask what it can do. we know what it can do. i ask how does it preform. cause plenty of people will say the same things about being useless bringing us back to the issue of it being more then just a melee class issue

[serene robin]

The entire point being

[flat shuttle]

Nah tank is fine. We have used both at ranged and in people's faces.

[serene robin]

Is that having a fighter there doesn't benefit the raid. Youd take any other class.

[umbral seal]

All i can say is, in WoW warriors charge in and do melee damage. In AoC, fighters shoot arrows worse than rangers. 😂

[serene robin]

If you have a Fighter there, because the raid isn't full and thats all you have, fine.
But for the tryhard guilds out there, your not really helping the guild at all by choosing Fighter.

and thats bad game/class design.

They are not actually useful in any meaningful way, which sucks and feels bad as a Fighter main, and if you ask any actual Fighter main who does participate in alot of Raid vs Raid fights, its pretty unanimous.

[quick path]

well i mean i know people that are up almost 300 int pre buff. so aoe obliteration is obvious. its also much more an issue when you dont have group cooridation and startigies like times mitigation ect.

[serene robin]

And speaking as a 510 phys power unbuffed fighter, I've played through alot of Raid vs Raid content. Its very very shitty.

Incredibly fun class at small grp vs grp, and solo.

[quick path]

see 300 int pre buff is like 600+ MP after like thats big gap

[serene robin]

In a raid, effectively useless

There's not many people at all that are 600 MP

if any

[flat shuttle]

Handful for sure but most still low to mid 500s

Magus was 570 unbuffed.

I blame us not having JM weaponsmithing.

[serene robin]

most are like 400-500, the tryhards are pushing 550-575. Maybe a couple dozen of those.

I think Weaponsmithing is coming this week

[flat shuttle]

Maybe! It'd be nice. My mats have been sitting for weeks.

[umbral seal]

Yea most are still less than 500.

[flat shuttle]

Also we have thr abilities to create some juiced scrolls adding nearly 50 main stat

[quick path]

point being unless your pretty much neck and neck you cant compare and even the cooprdination and skill ceilings come into play

point is its alpha and its more then just "fighter needs mitigation buff" theres deeper issues. we are not dismissing the fact there are issues. and i am only trying to point out that its not something wrong with a single class atm but a collective of on going issues that needs addressing first. example lets say they give mitigation to fighters then down road address ttk and water fall issues now fighter could be OP to every other class. or lets say aoes on low scale are OP now but what about in final end game content with arch combos? tank/cleric thats gonna be first comming you have a Meh melee with a OP spellcaster. kinda evens out or should right?

[umbral seal]

Fighters going into forge lately being told to be rangers. 😆

[serene robin]

Right.. Well Fighter still needs a mitigation cooldown buff specifically for large raid engagements.
There is no coordination or skill ceiling that would make them good in raids.

But at the end of the day, waiting on TTK issues are resolved, then waiting to see where its at, is really just being disillusioned to the problem. This problem has existed long before people had near 600 power or even 300 power for that matter.

This is a melee vs ranged issue in a large grp scenario. This is an issue that all games encounter and have to address.

Majority of the very competitive guilds have already told their players to switch off Fighter and do literally anything else. The ones that remain get replaced first when raid is full. I get that there's calls to wait until TTK, but we're at month 3 since these issues were made more apparent and nothing has happened yet.

It's become a meme at this point.

If you did the mitigation and fighters became too op after the TTK changes, then you at least give them a brief period where they are good and you shift the meta around a little while you address that. Rather than continue to have fighters wait longer to be trash in raid pvp fights.

[quick path]

or could just adress the elephant in the room that all range is over powered and solve everything XD

[iron steeple]

Just wait for the fotm builds when second archetypes are all fully available. Seen plenty of mmos to struggle with single class balancing issues. Current alpha state issues are going to be a piss in the snow compared what is to come =D

I think melee classes are going to do much better when they have more choices available, compared to ranged classes

[flat shuttle]

Watch them just give fighter a party buff.
Ez fix amirite

[quick path]

there is a party mitigation buff its provided by tank iron arua. also provided by bard with glee and triump

[flat shuttle]

Truthfully doesn't do jackshit.
Penetration in current state is way overtuned.

[iron steeple]

Fighters need a specialization for single target damage/aoe damage. Single target fighters with debuffs/bigger damage and aoe fighters with survivability bonuses. true and tested formula from other games

[quartz osprey]

I mean ranged is just going to be stronger than melee. no?

[wet haven]

Still no info on rogues? Sheesh.

[past whale]

It’s dropping Thursday brotha

Expect codex/icy veins to be updated with the final talent tree for rogue and daggers most likely tomorrow

[serene robin]

That's not the solve. But you can keep thinking it will solve it. It will barely help at all.

[green charm]

Lyneth player opinions

[wintry portal]

Info only released when its 100% confirmed i.e. its in the final build before servers come up. Till then better not to speculate so thats why nothing written down

[gritty orbit]

It's been on the codex for weeks

[cunning jungle]

Baby numbers

[wet haven]

Ability info is available?

[maiden hearth]

Do you guys think set bonuses are worth it?

If there’s an obvious upgrade gear-wise, is there a situation where you’d pick the set bonus over the gear itself?

[zinc sierra]

That depend on what the upgrade is and what the set bonus is, i changed my gloves to slightly worse gloves stat wise but that allowed me to get Heroic medium set bonus which give me 5% crit, so even tho i lose a Lil Magic power i gain a lot of crit %

[naive hearth]

Does mage buffs stay on someone even if the mage logs out?

[barren forum]

I would say fighter vs tank is close, if we are talking group combat fighter has better aoe dmg and self sustain, but tank has reflect, wall & aoe mit buff.

My biggest worry though is if they ever give a class a "do not heal" debuff ability fighter is cooked

[celest brook]

tanks better just because it can grapple people

and wall

[barren forum]

if grapple worked and yes tanks best zvz ability is wall

this isn't like tera where chain stuns for 1 second so they can't try and desync the chain

also fighter & tank work really well with each other, alot of support either side needs the other can provide

just 1 will die in current ttk

[random blaze]

Curious how does taunt work in PVP for a tank?

[mossy jungle]

you taunt the mage

so mage deals alot less damage with aoe

to everyone but the tank'

[flat shuttle]

It applies humiliated to the target reducing the damage they do to anyone besides the tank who taunted.

[agile saddle]

Or bard(they also humiliate)

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs confirmed yet?

[languid bronze]

almost nothing is confirmed 😄

[little lark]

Rouges, what’s your favorite dagger?

[ripe spade]

My brother, you are one-hitting thw whole server, what kind of do you need 😅🙏

[flat shuttle]

It's really just reflect giving us a free trip 😈

[glossy pumice]

I’m more of a black dagger personally, rouge is too bright

[spiral grove]

Well yeah but that's only because I'm not immortal as a tank

I die the same way DPS does which is literally a joke

Regardless of having abilities that are supposedly making you feel "tankier"

[daring sentinel]

ah I get it you want to one-hit the whole server AND be immortal.

[spiral grove]

?

No, I'd like to not 1-2shot people but actually be what my archetype is meant to be 😂 and that's tanky

I never went into the Alpha playing tank thinking I'd go from doing negative dmg to tons of dmg 🙃

[quick path]

compared to other classes tank is TANKY.

[spiral grove]

It's not 😂

The way DPS dies in PvE is the same way tank dies. Exact same case applies in PvP

You could be the tankiest tank on your server and It'd still be a joke. If you tell me otherwise you've not been playing tank or have PvP'd whatsoever

[quick path]

i disagree. having played all the current classes. tank is much tankier thier other classes when put up against the same content conditions

[daring sentinel]

just pulling your leg, just a bit. Hopefully whatever they are doing regarding combat balancing is going to make tank feel like a tank.

[quick path]

constant weapon proc ward. vengence constant ward. big self heal. intercept ward. dodge. aoe barrier ect. theres tons of self mitigation.

your exactly like the dude yesterday who was crying fighter needs mitigation cause it dies to easy to range. like maybe the class isnt the issue.

[flat shuttle]

If i get scared in PVE just block. 🙃

[spiral grove]

Appreciate you

[spiral grove]

Yes most definitely. our "self heal" that's also our cc break is used for exactly that reason. you and other people calling that skill a self heal are tripping 😂

Intercept got nerfed, indomitable spirit nerfed, banner nerfed. what are we even talking about?

[glad cloak]

3/4 hp bar shield that mages have is a real self heal

[spiral grove]

^

Even mages shell that scales with mp is 100x more useful than any shielding tank has

[daring sentinel]

Look this isn't my first time being taken for a ride by a nice MMORPG game studio, a man can dream, right?

[spiral grove]

😂

Ain't that the truth

also you're mentioning ward?? again what 😂 that's like saying you were okay with the previous vengeance shield of 0.1/0.2/0.3%

[quick path]

spend your time complaining that a class is an issue when theres many other factors causing the actual issues thats on you. the class its self compared to other classes in a same/same situation is way tankier

[spiral grove]

please. I've been playing tank the entirety of p1 and p2

[quick path]

well then theres your issue you dont have shit to compare

[spiral grove]

So when a firestarter 2 shots a DPS and then proceeds to 2 shot a tank. it's not the same thing?

It's fine

[daring sentinel]

yeah, that's one thingI dont understand. Instead of making it a dmg skill, they should have made it a shield generator, but not with these silly numbers. Instead of messing with grit

[spiral grove]

The adjustments they've made to the tank BESIDES removing the -dmg penalty have all been a nerf

If they had done that and groundpound with vengeance change. we'd be feeling a lot better now

but for some reason they nerfed our survivability skills

[quick path]

bro vengence stacks with weapon ward. like i can fill 1/3 of my bar with shield you must just be bad at the class

[spiral grove]

?

😂 what kinda hp bar do you have

[quick path]

its ok ive seen plenty of bad tanks tho

[spiral grove]

yeah, it's fine

I'm sure you feel real tanky

[gentle void]

Izzy is a beast

[spiral grove]

only most or 2nd most geared tank on Lotharia and I'm a pleb

P sure the fact that tanks abused the old mitigation bug is what scuffed data and caused them to nerf the other abilities

but that's just my 2 cents

[quick path]

gear is only part of equation so falling on "im only most geared" like that shows a wholeeeee lot

[spiral grove]

It's that + the knowledge of the class 🙃 I wasn't just saying that I'm only most geared

[quick path]

lets look past other issues like the waterfall stats ttk range op and just say all classes are shit

its easier

[daring sentinel]

I totally want to see a pvp clip of you filling 1/3rd of your HP bar with shield

[spiral grove]

Yeah ttk will get fixed in "2 weeks" we're 6 weeks further btw

[quick path]

i mean other guy last night said mp was only in 500s and i screen him 600+ shut that shit down quick

2 "weeks" in steven time we will see sometime deep in p3 then lol

[daring sentinel]

development is a moving train, smth

[spiral grove]

My point exactly changes are being made to other classes that actually effects their gameplay meanwhile tanks

[daring sentinel]

but honestly, I don't envy whoever is trying to untangle this aspect of Ashes, its FUBAR atm

[spiral grove]

Visual vfx update here. visual vfx update there. visual vfx update EVERYWHERE

One for you. and YOU and YOU

everytime I read the fucking patchnotes man

[daring sentinel]

any Americans here btw? they still teach maths in 'Merica, right? 😦

[spiral grove]

?

idk what this means

I'm 600+ PP too

Anyways playing broken rogue soonTM anyways so whatever. maybe when they realize that there's single digit tanks on an entire server they'll reconsider class balancing for us

I seriously wonder how many of each class there's on a server

[glad cloak]

With fixes to TTK, tank is probably good but it needs a feels rework imo. I don’t agree with all the flat absorbs based on max HP. Maybe like 3 at most. You start to enter the invincible unless mob dps is higher than X. Or you become super squishy when mobs hit more than X (which is pvp right now)

I always discus classes and stuff based on the current state of the game. It’s best not to say stuff like “once we get secondary archetypes then tank would be much better” etc. for any class

[daring sentinel]

making a class not enjoyable for 25+ levels isn't the greatest game design for sure. Especially if its one of the "holy" trinity classes.

a totally unrelated question...when is clerics whip coming back?

[spiral grove]

That's what I was thinking as well

I mean PvE in the game isn't exactly "hard" atm. It's just full aggro have 2 clerics and a bard baby sit you and yeah.

@daring sentinel I think that Steve said they'd look into it

[daring sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/richard-attenborough-whip-whipped-whiplash-whiplashed-gif-16685949900343051341

I wonder if they ever pull off that idea with spending more than one talent point per skill to empower it etc, maybe then class build variety improves somewhat across the board

after all we dont have talent trees atm which would force you to make actual choices

[spiral grove]

Yeah

Did they ever mention level cap being raised in p3 at any point or?

are we stuck with 25 until...Beta which is god knows how long

[daring sentinel]

well I dont think we had any statement on this...but I would imagine secondary archetypes are coming some time in alpha, so level cap should get increased then

[spiral grove]

I hope so 😂

Unless they just raise the level cap without any additional skills being unlocked. Now that would be tragic

[flat shuttle]

Look guys i just want to spend my stamina points.

[candid briar]

https://tenor.com/view/fist-fight-ice-cube-three-gif-12493296471833364200

[little lark]

Rogue day I slept 14 hrs in preparation

[dire coral]

you now have and extra 4 hours

[spice river]

Guess I’ll shower too 😒

[dire coral]

I mean that is always a bonus

[gentle void]

Showering is overrated

[edgy wraith]

If you shower you're all washed up!

[spice flint]

https://tenor.com/view/stinky-peanuts-pigpen-certified-stinky-gif-26944661

[dry pollen]

Yall think summoner will come in May or more like June?

[copper dust]

Of 2026?

[little lark]

We made it

Dreamed of this day since 2019

[jade mulch]

Dayum, I am so glad to read this! Sadly I will have likely up to zero time to play the next two weekends but finally, he is there! 😍

[quick path]

dec my guess

[vale saffron]

Neither. Steven commented that Summoner would likely be 3-4 months after Rogue which if that was accurate would be July~. However, Steven dates are never accurate, especially that far out, so Summoner is likely September or so

[glossy pumice]

Is it just me or does stealth suck ass? Lol

[spice flint]

is there something wrong with using tank abilites right now? they dont work when im clicking them?

[torn imp]

Don't click your skills sir you should keybind them 😉

[spice flint]

seems to be happening on my fighter too, it feel super clunky

[languid bronze]

Uhm, so the Tanks Shield Slam now propels me through the target

Not very great >.<

[spice flint]

yeah i noticed that too

[languid bronze]

switching to shield assault until it's been fixed

gave me a heart attack and a half

[spice flint]

not sure why but when im holding auto attack i have to stop holding to use abilites

[edgy wraith]

And if this is true I can see them holding on to it until October.... Just for the summoner Halloween connection

[elfin coyote]

rangers how yall feeling bout the changes

[maiden hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/jon-stewart-eat-eating-popcorn-watching-gif-3094746547306242594

[glad cloak]

need to test a lot more stuff but ranger so far:
feels like they should just delete barrage (imo), or not have it match armament color if it isn't applying armament anymore.
Pushing buttons > managing focus to keep it in a 'sweet spot'. At least thats what it feels like. With this many ST buttons, theres not really much room for min-maxing focus? better to push dps button asap. Maybe im wrong but, initial impressions.

Also attackspeed is doodoo for everyone compared to raw power. Greatswords all the way. At least this is how it feels?

hunt is getting turned off, and i think the regeneration and thorns are being removed

every time you use mark

[wanton knoll]

Is there a way to reduce camera movements as a rogue?

[sinful bluff]

shortbow ranger 100% dead now

[maiden hearth]

To be fair it was like 97% dead before patch so…

[sinful bluff]

did more dmg than longbows 😛 but required some prep

[maiden hearth]

Rogue’s just a better ranger mmkay.

[umbral seal]

Throw is such a fkin good ability

Give me a 2nd throw

[sharp trellis]

as i loaded up the game i thought there's no way the devs wouldn't have the foresite to give more character slots.

[glad cloak]

[ranger]
done some more ST dps today - biggest ranger issue im noticing - theres no point in playing around focus, just pretend its not there, press your buttons instead

also yeah shortbow dead outside of pve ST dps, which I don't think it would be too much ahead. if it wasn't for barrage arrowstorm

[sinful bluff]

yep rip shortbow rangers :p was fun for awhile guess i gotta go be the cookie cutter lonmgbow ranger again

[sinful bluff]

realy dislike playing a ranger now after changes 😦

feels so clunky

[fossil shuttle]

try play it like @glad cloak said i am tryning it now works abit better when you just ignore the focus, Power shot is a build up skill

[sinful bluff]

its the playstyle of it dont even care about focus i played a shortbow before which doesnt work now and all the skills have cast times that somewhat root u in place so it feels like a mage and clucky and everything

it plays like a mage but worst than a mage :p

[fossil shuttle]

i open with Snipe+Mark > Pwer shot > Root fells okey ( been on longbow since day 1 😉 )

[sinful bluff]

feels like ur fighting in perma walking turned on :p

[fossil shuttle]

well its alpha 🙂

[green charm]

what's making it feel clunky? it's almost the same imo

[sinful bluff]

your basicly walking the entire time in combat or stationary, its a huge difference from shortbow playstyle which was agile and more mobile however they nerfed/removed everything that made shortbows viable to use on the ranger

which basicly makes them feel like you playing a mage with less mobility and if i wanted to play a mage i would of just played a mage

[cunning jungle]

Short bow is just bad in general

Long bow or trolling tbh

[tulip grotto]

I don't mind pulling with it as a tank.....range isn't a big deal since I'm literally already trying to get close to the mobs and the speed is obviously better......kind of miss the range of a longbow but after trying both I don't hate shortbows for the few shots I take with it.

[sinful bluff]

when the rogue disengage feels 100 times better than ranger -.-

lower cooldown too i beleive

[broken sleet]

Rogue/Ranger combination will be fire

[umbral seal]

If ranger can get to a spot where people are happy with it. I'm hearing people say it's dogshit now.

[sinful bluff]

trying to build a new ranger i mean rogue :p

[sinful bluff]

ranger right now is basicly fighting with toggle walk on the whole time :p

and shortbow no longer viable due to nerfing/removing everything that made it usable :p

like when i play a ranger now im literaly like if i wanted to play a mage i would of chosen a mage, it feels like ur playing a spell caster but it worst version than a mage which has better single and aoe dmg, mobility andn survivability

[tacit adder]

do you just want to stand still while attacking?

[sinful bluff]

thats basicly what we got now

if u want us to play that standstill imobile ranger (that feels like a spell caster) they need like 15+ meter range otherwise we would go play a mage

[umbral seal]

just play rogue, it's the better ranger and the better fighter atm

[sinful bluff]

thats what im doing lvl 7 so far :p

the disenage on the rogue already better than ranger disengage :p so much quicker

[eager hornet]

So how is rouge

[sinful bluff]

better ranger than the ranger 😛 haha

[sleek pebble]

dude the dagger throw skill line

is so good

[eager hornet]

Lmao

[sleek pebble]

invis>throw>hemorrhage

[sinful bluff]

ranger now the 2nds mage class in my eyes plays exactly like a mage but worst/

Rogue can be plays as a melee or a hybrid melee ranger

[sleek pebble]

backstab the explosion mob

[umbral seal]

pretty fun, powerful. Only 3 downsides atm. 1: Current iteration of daggers are dogshit. 2: Rogue takes abit more effort to play than fighter/mage/ranger.
3. The way stealth works is abit cringe.

[glad cloak]

Ranger -
They want us to use more AA, because thats what the whole focus mechanic operates round? But abilities do 2-4x the dps of auto attacks. So auto attacking for 15% damage is not worth playing around.

I think make barrage go away (or have it be like an augment or something. When you activate barrage your auto attacks are 100% faster for 1.5s?)
make salvo apply the +50% damage on auto attacks (based on the number of charges. And set auto attack range to 35m for the duration - shortbow or longbow).
Make power shot an actual instant cast skill, lower dmg a lil 150% instead? (we don't want everything being .4-1.1s cast times on every arrow skill.)
Give killshot a cast bar, or make it feel different imo. idk how.

idk if these changes would actually 'fix' anything, but variety of how the toolkit feels between the 6 different shoot the arrow skills
also fix scatter shot bugs. (consuming both charges, charging when you don't want it to, etc).

[sinful bluff]

they also removed a big reason for auto attacking at the same time and that was bow mastery passive

using shortbows shouldnt reduce your movement (or atleast not as much) when u use cast skills tbh it dmg is substancialy less when it comes to skill than longbows so it need to make up for the mobility

[elder talon]

This makes a lot of sense. I think the other problem is the fact that anything you do interrupts your weapon combo flow. It’d be nice to see that modified at least a little.

[quick path]

rouge auto with daggers hard to get salve to use

[haughty pewter]

@south oriole I would like to say that the rogue is amazing. The animations, movement, abiltiies are top notch and everything I wanted in a rogue class. Basically a super ninja. The movement ability where you are jumping over the target is single handedly my favorite in the game

[sinful bluff]

including dodging which u gotta do often at times so u end up do i dodge and get hit for 3k+ or finish the combo 😛

[umbral seal]

Bro, if you say nothing but positives, we're gonna get nerfed

[sinful bluff]

rip rogue was nice knowing it :p

[haughty pewter]

Im not even talking about buffs/nerfs. Im more talking about the feel, look, and stlye of the class

All classes need a balance pass for sure in the future

[sinful bluff]

skill perform better too for example the disengage on the rogue is 100 times better than the ranger which feels slow and floaty

[umbral seal]

I'll share this too, too me awhile to draw this earlier.

[haughty pewter]

The good thing is that means they can fix the ranger for example. They probably do a rotation of passes on each class

[trim rock]

i for one love flying off a cliff because of my own hubris

[sinful bluff]

i think they should add a bow mastery passive back to the skill tree tbh too where shorts bows get X bonuses to accomodate a more mobile play style and longbow get something that accomodates the stand back and shoot play style

short bow one could be movment not slowed while casting any of there skills

[umbral seal]

poor arrowstorm 😦

[sinful bluff]

arrow storm got gutted like 33% of dmg dmg it use to do 😦

speaking of weapon tree i kinda wanna see them get a choice between 2 active ability at lvl 50 😛

[past whale]

Being able to see my rogue in stealth cause of armor/weapons/enchants clipping through camo is just so

[quick path]

its ok we know sword and board melee ranger was where it was at any way. cleaves for days

[sinful bluff]

there was an armor set that would turn u invisable too u could only see nameplates 😛

[quick path]

riverstalker chest atm is invis

[umbral seal]

yarp

[sinful bluff]

same issue as ranger tbh with camo where there armor wouldnt get the invis effect

[umbral seal]

Fake stealth and Real stealth @past whale

[past whale]

Not to mention I have to use 2H since all pre JM daggers are BUNS

Like COME ON

If I wanted to swing a 2H I’d play fighter

[umbral seal]

Yea dude, tell me about it. EXACTLY LOL

[quick path]

some people just want that big dick look cause of the small pee pee feel

[umbral seal]

https://tenor.com/view/feyd-rautha-dune-part-two-dune-austin-butler-gif-9833600400628485794

[trim rock]

i love a sword though, give me dual wield swords or physical buff off-hands and ill use those but i'm fine using the twohander.

[past whale]

Do kinda wish we could’ve had different daggers in each hand somehow

If I wanted to stack magic power so poisons scaled higher, woulda been neat

[trim rock]

a combo of three is wonderful

[umbral seal]

I saved 2 one handers just incase, got disappointed when they were still 'main handers' post patch 😦

[quick path]

looked like poison scale off PP id have to double look

[past whale]

Correct

[trim rock]

I'm sure we get more variants of dual-wield weapons later.

[shadow eagle]

why is this a supprise? they've been saying for months that dual wields are a seperate wep alltogether from mainhand / offhand and when rogue dropped we were only going to have daggers at first..

[past whale]

Maybe as Rogue/Mage my poisons could scale from MP

[umbral seal]

https://tenor.com/view/think-about-it-use-your-brain-use-the-brain-think-brain-gif-7914082

I wanted to see some cleric dagger action...

[past whale]

Hoping to see rangers and rogues get to dabble more in poisons in their skill tree. Bleeds are boring

[trim rock]

I'm still early levels but I want to play with Sap so bad.

More poison.

[past whale]

Also rogue ultimate ability to maybe give party members stealth for a small window of time

[sharp pecan]

Poison ftw

[quick path]

i disregarded sap and went with shadow heal at low level ooc stealth heals 60% PP every sec for like 5 sec and recast able in stealth making a great ooc heal

[trim rock]

i will go for what seems interesting regardless of its power. if it ends up being unfun i will throw it away.

shadow cloak is probably better for sure.

but sap ✨

[past whale]

Rogue sustain very strong for soloing. Was able to solo lvl 28 mobs at 22 with semi ease. Only really dipping to 60% in sustained fight

[umbral seal]

Yea, sap and poisons man. So gooood.

[quick path]

sap just seemed lack luster as you have to track poisons to heal but in order to get poisons low level you need to take that trait. thats why i mentioned the shadow heal

[trim rock]

its def more micro intensive

[quick path]

no doubt i was taking on lvl6 1 star spiders in melee range at lvl 4

[trim rock]

i was fighting like 8 goblins at once with no gear in the ruins.

[umbral seal]

Before i learned about sap... i was playing around with Death's Mark. Let me tell you, that ability is not working as intended. When it's not healing you, it's reflecting dmg to you. I one shotted myself like 2-3 times before i tossed it out the window.

[quick path]

oh no

[trim rock]

oof

[past whale]

Overall leveling experience was really fun as rogue. Dev did his or her a damn good job making the class so far

[trim rock]

i do wish i could have like a deadly finisher that increased poison stacks

bleed is strong but that would be mad thematic.

[shadow eagle]

rogue leveling since we all have +7 heroic gear hand-me-downs is so damn ezmode

[quick path]

im curious about the second poison slot havent made it to it yet but thats interesting as well

[past whale]

Extra option to swap around

[shadow eagle]

like.. lv. 10 rogue with +70 str is a joke

[trim rock]

luckily i have literally waited to play the game until this archetype released so

i have nothing

[quick path]

nope im doing what i do with every class im solo leveling with base give me's as a new person would to map best plans and routes per level

[past whale]

If you fight a cleric you’d want draining to drain mana fast but maybe a diff poison vs another class so you don’t have to talent swap

[quick path]

cause server starts no one will have the extras

[shadow eagle]

why? this aint going to be starting point on release. all that will be re-learned later

[past whale]

Rushed to 25 just cause I wanna see how it performs in PvP at max lvl tbh

[trim rock]

its fun to track and figure stuff like this out though

idk 🤷‍♀️

[quick path]

theres still info like vendors and stuff that wont change.

[umbral seal]

Crush the bard!

[past whale]

Considering I crit 3k+ with starting daggers I worry about the TTK even more now

[quick path]

your also assuming thier going to jumble a whole game on release with all new locations spawns ect

[trim rock]

rogue probably will see some nerfs haha

[umbral seal]

problem is, rogue feels good even in it's semi buggy state. It's everything else that doesn't feel that great.

[trim rock]

fair, but it is the most freshly cooked everything else will be stirred more.

like squeaky wheel gets the grease

[umbral seal]

Can't wait to see what rogue does in big events

[shadow eagle]

rogue isnt made for those bgig events

[past whale]

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-what-do-you-want-modern-family-not-worried-what-are-you-afraid-of-gif-12786683

[trim rock]

i just hope they put the dung back in

[past whale]

Log onto your Ranger or mage

Rogue might have a place tbh but such a high skill floor class that even in a node siege of 100 you’d prob want like max 5 and that’s really pushing it

In a zvz it will prob have to operate as a separate group doing kinda its own thing from main body of the raid or protecting backline

[trim rock]

remember we will have all these secondary classes that will mix things up alot.

[past whale]

Current stance is just passives so

And my idea of passives in my head is almost all cosmetic but it’s open to a wide range of stuff. Hope Steven and the devs cook up good with multiclassing and make it interesting

[languid bronze]

The description of the changes to the talents are way beyond cosmetic if you read what little Steven has said about it.

[mild elbow]

are daggers a valid option for bards ?

[past whale]

Stated in a more recent interview about it being more passive 👍 just going off what is recent I’ve seen him say. Can of worms regardless for the devs to balance and I know I wouldn’t wanna deal with balancing 64 classes lol

[languid bronze]

Yes, this is the information I'm going off.

[trim rock]

try it and see if it works

nobody has played with them alot yet

[ebon lava]

does race truly have an impact of archetype?

[sullen verge]

Race doesn't matter at all. Planned to have some cosmetic ability augmentations and that is it.

[ebon lava]

❤️

[gentle void]

Any world first alpha 2 rogue 25 yet

[torn imp]

A couple yeah

[quick path]

theres been lvl25 rouge since 930am

[sleek pebble]

Vanguard class

Will operate like lrrp

[glad dock]

was there any info about summoners in the latest livestream?

[vale hull]

Is the "Off balance" mechanic not working properly or am I reading it wrong? Shouldnt the enemy not be able to rotate for 3 seconds?

[wintry anchor]

"Off balance" does sometimes work for me but not always. Sometimes the NPC instantly turns to me and other times it turns really slow. Around half of the time it works normal.

[deft light]

I agree with the above mentioned in regards to ranger - between playstyle and class fantasy it's getting worse to play. It was already not great and the changes made for this patch just made playing it feel worse.

When I look at other classes, I can see they have an excellent hold on the class fantasy and the ability to intertwine skills with each other to really solidify the playstyle to make it fun while staying within the idea of what that class is.

Ranger has none of that. We walk slow like we're a target while trying to fight which makes us sitting ducks, we have less mobility than other classes (rogue & bard), mages get to see through stealth where rangers don't have the ability to track stealthed characters. There's many changes that need to come into play.

I know for certain there are plenty of examples on ranger classes throughout fantasty that would be much better than what we are currently, which just feels like that group of bowmen behind the shields shooting into a group of opponents without having any other real skills.

[proper hearth]

im not sure how those changes made you think that way, i agree that ranger is rough, but i would say that changes made it a bit better, not worse

[deft light]

This explains it pretty well, better than I could

[quaint shale]

I posted this in the wrong chat channel before lol

this pic is outdated by a couple of weeks; but I noticed in the rogue stream that the archetype colours were still doubling up and causing a bit of confusion among my friends
I think it would massively benefit the game to have 8 clear, distinct colours to represent the 8 distinct archetypes

im not married to these particular colours or anything; I just think it make sense to make sure that they are all 100% different colours

as it stands; this is just going to leave room for misinterpretation, misinformation when scanning UI during intense raid scenarios and PVP, and it's also yet another barrier of entry for newer MMORPG players

I think the best thing for a system of 8 archetypes is making sure learning and memorizing them all means being able to more easily differentiate them from one another. Having 3 of those 8 archetypes basically sharing the same colour is going to cause a slough of problems that I think can be avoided

not to mention changing a couple of icon colours is a very time AND cost effective compared to putting out all of the fires that the current set-up would create

I think the best mindset to follow when creating UI is that the best UI is to be GLANCED at, not stared at
We dont want to have to do a double take to make sure we're gonna heal the tank and not the rogue or the mage. It should only take a small glace to the raid profile party icons on the side of the screen for the average player to instantly get all the info that they need

other than that; UI team has been doing an amazing job tbh

[little lark]

IF:
Stealth cannot be applied
THEN:
Do NOT put it on cooldown

This is priority #1 for rogue fixes IMO

[glad cloak]

Rogue class color is too close to ranger's

[vale saffron]

You can also Manually change all the colours yourself

Just Rogue is missing atm

[quaint shale]

this shouldnt be something that the player needs to fix, it should be something that makes sense from beginning the player interracts with it. Also changing the core identifying colours of what will build all 64 classes involved in the game isnt a good idea.
The identity of the archetypes is what everything else is built off of, the fact that they are making the identifing colours that represent them similar, and then making players change to completely different ones will only muddy they water for viewers, players, streamers and newcomers. The power of "red = fighter" is actually so important in the grand scheme of things

it just makes things needlessly confusing. I also dont think a band-aid solution to something that is completely avoidable in the first place is better than just fixing the colour coding so it functions as its intended

i dont think the solution to a problem is to let the player get around it, I think the problem should be tackled by the devs

[vale saffron]

Well it's because they want the UI to be as customisable as possible. If you want bigger or smaller text, you can, you want to change the colour of the text, you can, you want to make UI components bigger/smaller etc. you can. Archetype colours fall under that

[quaint shale]

all of those elements other than archetype colours I think are great additions to UI customization and I think they will not confuse most players

but archetypes are what every single character/player builds everything off of, and so think getting the absolute most out of the raw, vanilla representations of what these archetypes are is more important than letting players choose it themselves

[green charm]

this has to be the most autistic nitpick I've seen in here

[spiral grove]

Toxic

[green charm]

there are only so many colours you can use with sufficient contrast to achieve the glance value he is obsessing over

[quaint shale]

it is in fact, very possible to have 8 different archetypes without using the same colour twice

I don't see how pushing the game to be the best version of itself is somehow an 'autistic' trait

and even if it was; is this not the channel for it?

[green charm]

how many colours do you see when you glance at a rainbow

versus staring at it for hours

look at any swatch

what should the 8th colour be?

[final pebble]

brown

[crude vector]

.>

[green charm]

old mate doesn't accept multiple shades of one colour unfortunately

[past whale]

Give rogue yellow and clerics white plz and ty

[verbal osprey]

imo: add Rogue default purple, and ability to change it, with no other changes for now.

[ebon lava]

ladies and gents, Im having a huge struggle between picking rogue or ranger main. I have commitment issues and want to pick one. Can you all please give me your reasons on which one to go with? Goals: Soloability, completionist style of gameplay, pve and hc pvp.

[bright flame]

Ez pick bard !

[languid bronze]

EVERYONE wants a Bard

I would play Bard if I didn't like Tanking so much

[sinful bluff]

there was one like 12 hours after the patch

[gentle void]

https://tenor.com/view/sorry-gif-15403589359868606383

[sinful bluff]

it quick to level when u just give them +7 gear set for lvl 0,10 and 20

[fossil hull]

can we play rogue as magic rogue in any way? ^^

right now I mean, I am alittle confused with the skill kit :/

[shut sundial]

im guessing maybe when they allow 2ndry archtypes intot te game?

like rogue/sorc , rogue/cleric

[sinful bluff]

playing my rogue as a ranger since they play like rangers more than rangers which now which play like mages 😛

[shut sundial]

yep i use longbow/rogue skills

just wish i had more healing

[sinful bluff]

they have the best sustain in the game tbh outside of cleric

[fossil hull]

maybe I need to figureout how to boost the necrotic dmg part of the tree somehow

[shut sundial]

cleric is awesome never run out of mana or health

i really wanna try it paired with rogue

i think it might be slightly op tho hehe

also wish they would change the hunting skill so you didnt have to wait for a randomly spawning farmable mob

and we could skin any animal mmob we kill

[clear lynx]

Soon

[shut sundial]

really?

that will be good

[wet bolt]

10 stacks of poison + sap = good healing

healing on stealth

death mark gives 50% of max hp whoever is lower ur max hp or the enemy max hp

so much healing in rogue kit

[little lark]

Which abilities work with the longbow?

[fossil hull]

yeah but dmg part doesnt seem to connect the dots as well as the other classes

[wet bolt]

more stacks of poison = more damage

1 stack = 8% necrotic damage

[tidal knoll]

Was wondering about weapons for rogue... No daggers available from the Lionhold merchant.

Is it fine to just go 2hander until you obtain a decent dagger?

[little lark]

Farming in stealth nerfed booo

[tribal brook]

New player, is there any real difference in weapon sizes besides attack speed? Aesthetically I prefer single weapon/sword with my rogue. Am I gimping myself by not using daggers?

[tidal knoll]

Not a bad question. I also prefer the legit "rogue" aesthetic of daggers, but will wield whatever packs the biggest punch available to me while I'm weak.

[languid bronze]

am I crazy for preferring shortbow for Tank with pulling and as a side-arm?

I also prefer mace because it requires two swings less than the sword and the speed difference doesn't end up massive so far, making it generate Courage must faster when you weave skills

[tidal knoll]

Ah right.. certain weapon have faster weapon combos, no? like less swings required etc

[languid bronze]

Mace is 4 swings, Sword is 6

even with the speed you finish 4 swings by the time you hit 5 for sword

[tidal knoll]

i gotta grab myself a new dagger and see how fast it proccs as well ^

I am very pleased they went for daggers being 2hand weapons though.. i cant remember any other game that did that.. but it alleviates the pressure of finding 2 good daggers 😛

[languid bronze]

oh ho ho, Tank with daggers

never thought about that

can you still Slam even if you have daggers?

or just use other crap

[tidal knoll]

shadowguardian inc? 😛

rogue-tank

That could actually work depending on the selfhealing and the CC available to rogues atm

[languid bronze]

unexpected tank/rogue hotness

[pliant ridge]

You can buy copper daggers at the blacksmith guy North West of Lionhold i believe. Or at a node vendor

[tidal knoll]

Daggers seem to require 7 swings for combo finisher. about 3-4 seconds to activate

[tidal knoll]

Cheers

[languid bronze]

Yeah I'm gonna try it. Just doing other crap at the moment

[tidal knoll]

I am only level 6 atm, but I was just struck by the fact that daggers seem to have more strikes in a shorter time which should be beneficial when using poisons to stack up before using sap, compared to 2h sword etc.

[tribal brook]

Are there single daggers in the game? I prefer single weapon aesthetics 😅

[tidal knoll]

Mmh, I dont know. Speculating here, but it could be cool with a few options on max level to be customizable with 2 different daggers, while its handy for level daggers to be 2h weapons. However, making this distinction for high level would require daggers to obtain 2x "heroic" quality weapons compared to during leveling... Unless they have a certain characteristic bonus that doesnt break the powerbalance, this feels like a pretty harsh hurdle. Unless you can manually choose to use them as 1h or 2h.

Or perhaps that its optionable to use as 1h/2h during the entire progress ^

For enchants etc on weapons 1h+1h could be more beneficial (with differing effects) to be available to increase utility.

Or maybe using 2 different poisons at once

[languid bronze]

Not at the moment. If enough people want them to be separate to allow silly stuff like dagger/shield or even more reasonable things like sword/dagger then we can give that feedback and things might change but it's not a given

[broken flint]

To all those rangers out there, how is the rework compared to before?

[fossil hull]

is intelligence rogue a thing? or can I make it work somehow :/

[little lark]

I believe even poison scales from physical damage

[quick path]

blood poison PP burning MP

[rigid hamlet]

Any tonk players?

[quick path]

tank?

[rigid hamlet]

Ya

[quick path]

sup

[rigid hamlet]

Does shake it off work now?

Or is it still a flat heal

[quick path]

have to log to check but i belive its flat precent and then obviously cchance to crit

[rigid hamlet]

so this part is still not working?

just the 10%

What about shields, is there any reason to block now or is it still bad?

[quick path]

shield bolocks alot of damage but still better to dodge if possible

[rigid hamlet]

How good was the little rework a while ago?

It reads like the kick is way more useful now

[quick path]

same you got people that like changes and people that dont. i personally like the changes esspecially starting in the lower levels the difference between before and after was noticeable

[rigid hamlet]

What would be worse now?

[quick path]

i think the main issue is alot of people dont like the pvp feel of tank. like anything tho its gonna be ultimatly up to the person playing and how they feel

[rigid hamlet]

Weird, what's wrong with tank in pvp?

[quick path]

it could use some polishing i think but its not bad

[rigid hamlet]

Does the pull still bug around?

[quick path]

people say yes i havent had a issue i think thier just interupting the skill before it finishes

[rigid hamlet]

Hmmh

Does reflect work 100% of the times now?

I assume tank generally feels weird to play with the ttk being completely broken so you just explode like everyone else

[quick path]

ive been on bard and rogue as of late best i can say is give it a feel for yourself. and yes ttk is still bad they did say it is on thier to do list to tweek so theres that

[rigid hamlet]

There is bad and there is 0.5s

But ya

Hope it gets fixed before may

Courage on tank seems a bit weird, it only gets used by 2 abilities :v

Feels like they forgot tank has a special ressource and didn't make abilities go with it

[quick path]

i dont think they have really touched it esspecially with tank cleric supposedly first combo

[rigid hamlet]

Oki

Thanks 😛

[upper star]

I know im beating a dead horse here but can the devs please take a look at fighters role in large scale PvP, literally every other class has something to contribute while fighter does not. If you take a look at how groups are class comping they go Mage dps with Rangers root bot and support from Clerics for heals, Bards for buffs and Tanks for walls chains. Fighter does not provide any meaningful support, utility or even enough dmg in a largescale fight to be worth taking a roster slot. Fighter needs an overhaul to be viable in largescale PvP, groups need a compelling reason to bring Fighter to a fight, cause right now they dont have one. Ive heard it said multiple times that classes would be balanced around group content, I'd love to see this happen for fighter.

@mighty nimbus

We need a unique buff/ability or preferably buffs and abilities that we bring to the group, the only "Unique" skill we have that buffs the group (and de-buffs the enemy) is Battle Cry and that's also our CC break and is used reactively which makes it super awkward to use in a way that actually benefits the group in a meaningful way, especially in PvP

Were also about to get 100% replaced by Rogues, everyone I know who plays fighter is swapping or has already swapped to Mage, Ranger or Rogue. I'd really like to here some feedback from @south oriole and @mighty nimbus on whether or not this is on your guys radar and if there are plans to adjust the Fighter Archetype.

[umbral seal]

Yea, having our debuff shout as a CC break. Extreme cringe.

[tacit adder]

tag Steven more often, surely that will help

[clever wyvern]

Fighter role is to sit in the backline to protect healers from rogue

[sinful bluff]

if u like playing a mage then it ok :p doesnt feel like a ranger these days plays like a spell caster

[sinful bluff]

replacing my ranger with a ranged rogue aswell it players like a ranger compared to the current ranger which is realy just a mage in how it plays/performs 😛

Fighters atm i think are probaly fine if they removed enchanting from the game the power scaling of enchant makes fighters impossible to play where unenchanted gear they actualy feel good with TTK and things

[upper star]

I just want to hear something from Intrepid to effect of they are aware and working on the situation. The fact that the Fighter dilemma has been brought up dozens of times and has hasn't (to my knowledge) been acknowledged as an issue is worrying.

I agree enchanting and the current TTK are definitely issues but fighters also lack any useful uniqueness, Id love to see them add something to the fighter to make them more useful to the group utility wise as well.

[umbral seal]

I rolled a melee class to play it like a range class. #Ashes of Creation Alpha.

[upper star]

Yea feels bad.

Im going to try and post about this and Tag someone everyday till I either get a response or get banned for loving fighter too much, lol

[umbral seal]

https://tenor.com/view/yousefiw-shocked-shoot-scared-no-way-gif-26999984

[upper star]

@winged plank Does intrepid have a statement/update regarding how the Enchanting, TTK and Fighter situation is being addressed?

[winged plank]

Everything is WIP. This is an Alpha. If you find a bug, report it in game with /bug. If you have feedback, share your thoughts on the forums or here in Discord.

[upper star]

Great to hear from you, I appreciate the response, the fighter issue is less of a bug and more of a design problem imo. Fighter as an archetype is cooked till changes are made. I'd love to hear more about those systems (i.e enchanting TTK and the unique benefits that a fighter brings to a group) and how these designs are being addressed.

[torn imp]

Please tell me there is behind the scenes filming of things like during patch days when everything is breaking -- i think it would make a really good documentary on release 😄 I picture complete chaos in the office those days

[vale saffron]

They've said for a while that they've been recording their meetings and other stuff around the office over the years and plan to release a kind of documentary about the journey once the game releases

[exotic sphinx]

Am I the only one that thinks rogue's gonna sit in the same boat as war, where it's kind of meh'.
Because:
In PvE if there's more than 3 mobs with mechanics you can easily get nuked.
And the majority of PvP that exists requires groups, mostly large ones where some melee bozos like rogue and war will be memed upon by all the ranged.
And the only little amount of solo pvp is kind of heavily punished by corruption?

[umbral seal]

pretty much

[warm hemlock]

yup

[exotic sphinx]

Seems like ranged will have all the fun and melees kind of meh in general.

[carmine stratus]

is rogue out yet

[umbral seal]

3 versions of ranger is out. take your pick.

[carmine stratus]

lmao really?

[azure crest]

yes the rogue is out

[little lark]

Broody McBackstab

[barren forum]

So it sucks that snared and chilled share the same debuff slot, so classes that work great off snare effect (tanks) or classes that can cause snared (fighter) conflict with mages who want to control chilled. what if you change it so snared makes using stamina more expensive or chilled vice versa

[clear lynx]

• debuff slot

[past whale]

why is rogue stealth easier to see than fkn rogue camo..,

[maiden hearth]

Maybe it’s a stupid question but is there a reason why Magic Power weapons in general is lower than their physical weapon counterparts?

[umbral seal]

Rogue stealth

[little lark]

Because true magic power comes from within

[formal shale]

I would just to say kudos to the entire aoc team on the rogue. The abilities and playstyle you guys designed for it is amazing. Love every detail of it. Ik it's still early stages and anything can and will most likely change, but the archetype imo is already fantastic (minus the struggles with getting stealth to enable lol)

[maiden hearth]

[little lark]

The ability that makes you resist magic and instantly go into stealth is like cloak of shadows and vanish from WoW combined, when I saw this ability I literally busted. Class is perfect 🤩

[green charm]

stop letting bard guy design classes

he really just giving them everything with zero weaknesses

[umbral seal]

I wanna know why ranger camo and rogue stealth fails part of the time. Why do pieces of gear ignore the stealth code. 😬

[green charm]

they didn't cook it properly

[tulip grotto]

It does look pretty funny watching a pair of boots run by

[lunar wedge]

classes built further into game dev usually have more tricks because there's more tech online to make them cool. Classes built earlier on have less cool stuff because the tech wasn't build to give them cool stuff. So then they go back and improve old classes hopefully (kinda like what they're doing with ranger?)

class balance will really get thrown for a loop once multi classing comes online, so trying to do too much balance at this early stage is wasted work.

classes like fighter are going to be weaker in a fast TTK environment where ranged classes (or rogues) can thrive. Once they address TTK issues I think the fight/tank classes will greatly benefit from it.

[mossy jungle]

anyone feel like a ranged rogue feels really good

[flat shuttle]

Rogue tree definitely seems fleshed out with well rounded kit.
So far some of the numbers they be hitting for scare me lmao.

[trail laurel]

they cooked with rogue

[umbral seal]

Feels like ranger tbh lol.

The same with anything that holds a bow

[crude crag]

Finished solo leveling Rogue to 25. Overall the kit feels really nice. Though a lot the skills are still bugged which I /bugged them when I noticed them.

The most annoying thing i'd say (other the stealth) is having to re-apply poison every 10 to 15 seconds in combat. After having some long grind sessions of constant grinding it just becomes a chore and doesn't feel like good gameplay.

I think it should be changed to have a longer CD but and uptime that matches it while giving us 2 choices of poisons instead of 2 charges. This will allow us to pick a poison and stick with it for say 10 minutes and reapply or swap to the 2nd poison based on the sitution.

[umbral seal]

Did you test Death's mark? When i tested it, i was healing a portion of the time and not getting heals or killing myself with what looked like reflect damage the other portion of the time.

[crude crag]

Yea there was a few times it didnt heal at all even though the kill was in the 30 second window. - /bugged it.

Do you recall which mob refected it/

[umbral seal]

when i tested it, i insta killed myself with death's mark upon killing highwaymen hills clerics, fighters and the lot. Basically stuff that can't oneshot you but for some reason do 1 shot you with death's mark on them and only when they die...

[crude crag]

I had a problem constantly bouncing off the overcharged shardlings with feint. Also the rotation lock on Acrobatic Strike rarely seemed to work.

[umbral seal]

yea the rotating thing seems to only happen on beasts

[crude crag]

I wonder if that is why I would randomly get hit for an extreme amount of dmg by some mobs. Though it was while i was still in combat.

[umbral seal]

the snakes in the desert, didn't rotate

[crude crag]

I'll have to test it more it just seemed to almost never work.

[umbral seal]

yea, those 1 star elites, don't have anything in their kit to 1 shot anyone with twinked out level 10 gear

so it's gotta be a bugged ability

atleast that's what it looks like

idk, we'll see

Smokebomb 2nd charge or the charge timer seems buggy.

[crude crag]

I think they take 10% more dmg not the rogue

[umbral seal]

grappling hook works most of the time but depending on the terrain, you could get teleported back to where you initiated your grappling hook in the first place

feint feels ice skatey

poison doesn't apply when you get stunned on the key press

you lose the charge

[crude crag]

I didnt test grabbling that much. I mostly went with stuff that does dmg as I was trying to get leveling out of the way should I can finally start playing the game haha. Been waiting for rogue all phase.

[umbral seal]

Yup, glad it didn't disappoint... see where it goes from here tho

It does feel like the slowest dps leveling tho, solo wise.

[crude crag]

Yea i had ok gear for leveling. Would have to see how it feels if i didnt have pre-crafted gear. I wasnt cracked out like some people with 450+ physical power or anything. More like avg 25 power.

[mild elbow]

i am glad there are magical dual daggers, my bard can finally roleplay as Shaco

[orchid cradle]

what can you do, that cleric doesnt heal the opponent? i mean that hella stupid. you both are flagge, purple, and if you use heals as cleric, you heal your opponnent?! WHY intrepid?? xD

i found the option, but its kinda weird and i dont fully understand it

[keen gorge]

it's bugged, if you e.g. have fully specced Divine Flare so it deals damage too and you hit an enemy with it, it both heals them and damages them at the same time. But only in flagged pvp, not in other pvp events

been like this a month now

[orchid cradle]

annoying tbh

[cunning raven]

rogue did this to me lol

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs when?

[tulip grotto]

Right after 1 more nerf

[warm hemlock]

thats Bard

[maiden hearth]

Bards are fine, look at rogue!

[warm hemlock]

buff rogue

[glad cloak]

@vale saffron

Wait - is this an April fools event

Fooled once again

[wintry portal]

[gentle panther]

I heard there was a tank rework in the mix. That makes my little tank heart swell with pride.

[outer sentinel]

you heard so today?

and did you checkout the leaked summoner 😉

[gentle panther]

I heard Sunday and I did

[proper hearth]

rogue is much more fair than bard because rogues are melee and in gvg they die before they can use one spell

[maiden hearth]

Look at mage! Don’t look at bard, bard is FIIIIINE! Promise!!!!!

[proper hearth]

i mean, you are not wrong in this first part

mage is... well

[maiden hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/door-hide-close-bye-cat-gif-22820275

[crude crag]

This is true. Did some large scale pvp. Snuck up behind them, thought they were all well distracted, went in, INSTA turned on and dead.

Not to mention stealth doesn't really work. Can be seen well over 40 meters out.

[proper hearth]

well, only glow of your weapons, and maybe some air disturbance in certain conditions

[worldly acorn]

lmao

[glad cloak]

The bard casts silence. You use your cc break. The bard casts silence again. You are now incapacitated for 10 seconds. Now you are taking damage while asleep. The bard is playing hopscotch and 100-0 you over 3 seconds while shooting a laser from the magic wand

You have lost the 1v1

The ranger casts camo. He is untargetable and you can’t see the cast bar. The edges of your screen get blurry. You spam dodge cause you don’t know what’s going on as a green blob flies towards you. The new ranger resource focus made snipe do 15% more damage for a 4.2k crit. (I have also seen some 5k’s).
You are dead

The mage casts 3x instant fireball. You dodge all of them but it doesn’t matter because the dot hits anyways. He casts combust and you are almost dead. You hit him back, but the 500% scaling shield protects the mage. You die shortly afterwards from the 20s burning debuff as the mage watches you from far away

I’ll stop my role playing

[vale saffron]

The real joke is making your server still play WoW

A cruel fate

[worldly acorn]

that is the classic wow hunter disc

[vale saffron]

Ok then definitely keep them away from Ashes, otherwise they'll cry until they make Ranger a garbage pet class

[tulip grotto]

Can we please get ranger pets?

[vale saffron]

[warm hemlock]

needs more WoW-ness

just to mess with Talents

[glad cloak]

Then after they add a pet, add a talent that removes the pet. And that talent be the meta

[umbral seal]

Without pets, the ranger only becomes another version of rogue. 😬

[glad cloak]

I am going to have to play rogue some aren’t I,

[warm hemlock]

without pets Ranger is just a Rogue with a bow

[umbral seal]

Someone posted rogue doing 9k dmg in pvp.. so yea you probably have to for the lulz

[vale saffron]

Pets are what talentless companies do to Rangers

It's why GW2 and WoW uses it

[warm hemlock]

[umbral seal]

@glad cloak

[spiral grove]

Tank buff when?

Can we stop

exposing me @umbral seal

wtf

[spiral grove]

don't do it

just jebaiting

[umbral seal]

https://tenor.com/view/go-do-it-yes-no-go-for-it-gif-17183104

[vale saffron]

Just wait until Bucky gets around to reworking the Tank, Ranger, and Fighter after he finishes with Summoner. Will be

[umbral seal]

If summoner does't completely kill the server in towns or the starting area. I'm gonna be disappointed.

[spiral grove]

@vale saffron You actually know if Steven confirmed whether tank rework has already begun or yet to happen?

and who's spearheading that project

[vale saffron]

Steven said on stream the other day that Tank would be getting a "rework", but no he hasn't said who would be doing it

It's probably unlikely to be Bucky seeing as he's doing Summoner

[umbral seal]

All the reworks right before may 👀

[spiral grove]

Fk man

So that rework def isn't hitting before p3

Unlucky. the lack of tanks will be atrocious

[gentle panther]

Ok, with rogue out are rogues better rangers than rangers? I still prefer rangers for ranged group PvP than rogues. I feel rogues are more bursty single target classes while ranger has more in the toolkit.

[flat shuttle]

Just wait till there are 6 smoke clouds on your back line and your healers never existed 🙂

[upper star]

Hey when do we get a Fighter rework? We need more group utility, and class adjustments etc. Lets make Fighter Great Again! @mighty nimbus

[vale axle]

its time to change classes irish

save yourself from the pain

[flat shuttle]

Hes a rogue now 😦

[maiden hearth]

It’s time to summon glint

And summon tank elementals

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs when?

[maiden hearth]

When you stop critting insane numbers

[spiral grove]

😂

I'll prob do a dmg test back on my tank

soonTM

[sage tendon]

tbh the tank experience would be better if pre lvl 10ish the mana wasn't such a pain in the rear

I don't have to sit as often with a cleric of a mage

to chug on rations

[sullen verge]

Was waiting for the feedback thread to open, but haven't seen it. So here's my Rogue feedback

[sinful bluff]

rangers are the pet tbh atm you only keep them around to cast roots 😛

[sinful bluff]

rangers are mages atm in this game thats how they play and feel 😛 Rogues with a shortbow fells like a ranger, rogue with melee feels like a rogue 😛

[spiral grove]

just reflect with mana return 😂

[sage tendon]

ye you can eventually get ways to handle mana issues (sort of)
But early game it's a pain 😔

[maiden hearth]

Just get a mana battery (bard)

[upper star]

Oh I have bru Im on Rogue now but I still love Fighter.

So were getting a second Tank re-work which allot of people are exited about! I also want to be excited, when will we get a Fighter rework! @rough comet

[elder talon]

Yeah unlocking the mana regen weapon combo ability made everything sooooo much better

[umbral seal]

people still use shortbow?

[sinful bluff]

use to in ranger but then they destroyed that build works well on rogue tbh too

[sage tendon]

shortbow is aight on cleric because of bless weapon (or so I've been told)

I guess any class that has on-hit effects

[ember lantern]

Hi all. Anyone else disappointed with the Rogue?

[umbral seal]

What do you mean?

[vale saffron]

Nope, Rogue is basically exactly waht I wanted Not a shitty Rogue that relies on Stealth to do anything, but rather dashes around the battlefield comboing people

Got what I wanted

[umbral seal]

Stealth not even working haha. I run a mile away and these people i'm about to shit on with my big dik sword can still target me. 😂

Unless the targetting UI is bugged. IDK

[unkempt badger]

do you have enchanted weaponjs? those give u away

[winter spruce]

any known subclasses gonna be out on phase 3 on wipe?

[hollow cave]

Just subhumans, not subclasses

[umbral seal]

Yeap 😬

[unkempt badger]

rogues are actually rather hidden without enchanted weapons

[umbral seal]

I guess but i've seen pieces of gear move around with people who don't have enchanted stuff. We've got the same thing rangers have.

[umbral seal]

also notice the name popping in and out at random while people in stealth

[unkempt badger]

yeah 100% happens

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs when?

[languid bronze]

I feel like one more damage ability and consolidate defense would be great

I think I will never use active blocking either

[proper hearth]

never

[sinful bluff]

shortbow and other fast weapons could be good if additive weapon dmg wasnt the hardest stat to get in the entire game 😛
But all additive dmg gear is the hardest items tocraft :p

[sinful bluff]

it in the works jeeze (well changes)

[spiral grove]

Ty

[sinful bluff]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/1jo2lxv/notes_on_stevens_stream_on_31032025/

i feel like they be going back to ranger after the tank one :p those 2 classes seem to be the ones people complaining the most about atm :p

[torn imp]

Cleric specifically likes shortbow for 1v1 because it stacks burning from blessed fast. Wand is probably similar too. The issue is a cleric shouldn't be 1v1ing so you're usually on longbow or book lol

Has anyone done a deep dive on the math for additive weapon damages?

[sinful bluff]

ive tried its just the hardest stat in the game to get

every 5 rating = 1 dmg per hit from AA works well with wands/Sbows if u can get enough of it but to get enough of it is a right pain in the ass since it all the hardest gear to craft

it might be viable when TTK gets looked at

and u can actualy crafdt the gear

[torn imp]

Yeah longer fights would benefit a bit more from it

[sinful bluff]

problem most of the additive dmg for me requires 3 piece carphin (purple + quality for set bonus) 2 forgelord signet rings of decent quality (recipe realy doesnt want to drop) Dunzen shortbows (most expensive bow in the game to craft) and melee weapon which takes 12-20 glittering steel whcih is rough, along with couple pain in the ass armor pieces and then the most expensive food in the game to make lol

[brave cosmos]

Doesn’t additive damage not count towards most skills though - primarily only auto attacks? That’s what I saw with some of my testing. I think it procs with barrage too but for most skills I don’t think it impacts them at all.

[sinful bluff]

only auto attacks

doesnt proc with barrage

interesting interaction with the wand though when it beams

which makes wand on part with shortbow imo with additive dmg

books might be good with additive dmg on PvE though too since it aoe all triggers the additive dmg

but it rather slow so doesnt make to much use on single target

does seem easier to make a magic dmg class into additive dmg item wise though there a little easier to get it seems

also additive dmg can crit but it based of magic crit rate not physical which hurt the ranger a bit

surprised there wasnt a necrotic dmg dagger added in with the rogue :p

[upper star]

I think we all agree fighters are the low man on the totem pole when it comes to GVG's they need more group utility, a buff (not tied to a CC break) that benefits the group such as our shout but give us more morphs with different buffs we can choose from a group De-buff, such as a group trip that doesn't require staggered but instead uses momentum to cast. We need some refining of the Fighter kit because compared to some of the other classes it just doesn't feel fully fleshed out. @winged plank \

[rancid spire]

What weapon is best for bard?

spellbow or spellbook?

[maiden hearth]

Wand/Spell longbow

[languid bronze]

can someone kindly tell me how I use the active block while actively tanking, keeping DR up, and without going insane from mental and finger load?

[elder talon]

https://tenor.com/view/that's-the-neat-thing-that's-the-neat-part-invincible-gif-3109787441708074597

[languid bronze]

Had a DPS tell me over and over to use block so I get confus

Active block for tanks is maybe the worst

[sterile knoll]

MAKE FIGHTER GREAT AGAIN!

[languid drift]

True, almost 0 reason to use an active block. If it is a tank buster, u better dodge it. Block it - you get a ton of dmg AND still lose stamina.
Also you can't dodge a tank buster if you spend your stamina on blocking bs attacks

[green charm]

rogue nerf when

[languid bronze]

That's been my take-away too. As interesting as active block might be, I think it's a feature that's dead in the water because of its intrinsically anti-synergistic behaviour/useage.

[languid drift]

Tanking right now is about positioning, movement, GPH (kinda), dodging, sometime knocking a mob to cancel an ability, and having a decent cleric. Other things like block, cc, weapon procs, your own heals and shields, are having a very low impact in comparison.
Ofc you will have situations when utilisation of these low impact things means difference between life and death but generally speaking - nuh.
And I'm not talking about aggro at all coz there is no problem in this department for sure.
I hope for a full tank rework during the alpha coz the archetype is not tanky and has an unimaginative design.
Ok, rant is over🦧

[languid bronze]

This is what I've found as well. I did some try-harding with the DR abilities and I honestly cannot tell the difference from when I forget all about it.
The low amount of hit points feels weird when some classes can do better against single mobs for (not) taking damage due to good stun/CC usages with virtually the same amount of health.
Tank inherently feels good but performs like a kitten, which is a strange juxtaposition for the moment. It absolutely needs help, and some kind of re-think on DR abilities. Grit makes me grit my teeth from pure frustration.

To me, an easy solution to DR is to let it proc off of Slam.

Also I wish Slam didn't take me a step forward >.<

[green charm]

the pve is braindead anyway

[languid bronze]

Helpful.

[glad cloak]

Blocking is bad for tanking currently - people use dodge instead

[limber grove]

Question for the players who tested Rogue and Fighter at max level, in which situations do you think one is better than the other?
PvE solo, PvE group, PvP solo, PvP 8 man group and mass PvP

[exotic raptor]

This is a good question my rogue isn't max yet but is gear and lvl 20. Fighter has better survival and is in my opinion much better in group pve due to the aoe damage and multiple ways to trip and incap on the spot. Rogue has those things too but they require certain distances or have longer cd. The rogue is a monster in 1v1 and small group pvp. Fighter is also good in small group pvp but not nearly as effective. Neither one really brings great things to the table for large scale pvp. Though the rogue can stealth and pick off stupid people that are far away from the group.

I'm still working through all the skill set for the rogue however I can say the rogue has a much higher skill floor and ceiling. Bad rogues would be very very bad. Fighter on the other hand are pretty straight forward. You can tell between a bad fighter and a great fighter but the skill floor and ceiling are lower

[flat shuttle]

Fight me!

[lilac rampart]

Rogue always been that way no?

Rogue is easy to play but HARD to master. And if you cant play it well it soon becomes a flop

[languid bronze]

I've come to the realization that anyone playing a Tank should have a GPH approaching 0.

Why?

Steven expressed that they have systems to measure every use of every skill (paraphrased).

This means that if as many as possible just stop using Grit in PvE, the devs will be sure to notice that something is horribly wrong.

And thanks for coming to my TEDx talk.

Jokes aside, they likely know there's a problem with it anyway.

[flat shuttle]

Lol im fairly certain that they already know this.

[languid bronze]

Yes, which I did mention as well. I just enjoyed looking up GPH and having a bone to pick with Grit (like everyone else), I made some low-brow satire about it 😄

[upper star]

Is there any plans for a Fighter Archetype Update? @mighty nimbus @signal flame Does intrepid feel that fighter needs further iterations, or are you guys happy with where they're at? I understand gathering data, performing re-works and then implementing them takes allot of time so I don't expect some overnight fix I'm just hoping for some more communication on fighter and where the studio is at concerning them. Every fighter main including myself is waiting with bated breath hoping to hear from you guys on this subject.

[vale saffron]

One of the designers, Bucky, said they plan to get back and work on the older archetypes to bring them up to the levels of newer archetypes

(e.g. Fighter/Tank/Ranger)

[spiral grove]

Is there an indicator of where your actual stealth level is as a stat?

[signal flame]

We're not 100% happy with where any archetype is at

We have a lot of balancing to do. This isn't just archetypes. TTK, stats, gear, enchants, and a lot of things that impact player power... we have balance work that needs to get done

[green charm]

Tbh Bucky needs to design all of the classes or none of the classes

[maiden hearth]

I thought this was tank chat, what happened?

[upper star]

Appreciate the quick reply! Now I know TTK and enchanting play into why Melee dmg in general is pretty rough but it isnt just power or TTK thats a problem for Fighters, its how we provide little to no meaningful unique buffs or de-buffs in group play, we need more than just dps we want some sideways progression and utility for group fights, our class has almost no options unlike, bard, Mage, Ranger and Rogue where there's at least some variety and synergy potential. Our group trips take allot of setup which makes it pointless to use in the current landscape and our momentum is just a trip resource with rarely having enough to actually use berserk. Also our cc break being a buff and de-buff is very clunky to use for group benefit, our fighting forms are seemingly intended to provide the option for differing combos but in their current iteration they do not, its just set and forget, we need more uniqueness to the fighting forms (imo) to provide synergistic combos and better group play . I know your all working hard and I appreciate that, this game is awesome and It takes allot of effort to make it that way. I love this game and Im looking forward to future updates on Fighter.
P.S. Is there any sort of word on how the TTK and enchanting re-works are progressing?

[vale saffron]

Steven said that the TTK update is aiming for around the end of the month

[maiden hearth]

Gathering update is set for the 8th no?

[vale saffron]

The first set of updates is planned for the 10th April. Second 24th April. Third 8th May

[signal flame]

It's a work in progress

To overshare here (mostly for @vale saffron to answer this for people 🙃 ) we may have an early version of a stat revamp ready for people to test on the PTR as soon as next week. No promises, but work is coming along.

[signal flame]

More info here: https://ashesofcreation.com/news/the-gatherable-spawning-system-is-evolving

This is where the dates are at

[vale saffron]

That was where Steven commented on stat changes for TTK being aimed for the .9 release which as of 30th March was about 3 weeks away

https://youtu.be/x0J7iP6N1-0?t=2521

[dusk wolf]

rogue talent?

[vale saffron]

Just looks like the regular grappling hook to me

[dusk wolf]

i didnt realize they had that, i was so confused

[exotic raptor]

I would like everyone to take a moment of silence. I have discovered that the rogue is in fact Batman.

[unkempt plank]

Guess they love the number 242. Power speed and durability

[lilac rampart]

That sombrero goes hard

[lilac rampart]

Crappling hook in to building
Then a acrobatic manouvre + a tier 2 feint going outside of the building followed by a quick jump and a stealth

[umbral seal]

Yea, select the ' I'm Batman ' ability.

Works on buildings, 50% chance to fail on small up slopes

[haughty pewter]

I hope they don't remove or nerf the grappling hook, it's such a fun ability and doesn't seem op in PvP. I want it for the exploring factor alone

[dire coral]

I can see grappling hook being one of the main Cross archtype skills you can spec into if you take rogue as a second class

[languid bronze]

It would make me want to go Tank/Rogue for sure

[umbral seal]

Batman grapple + tank yikes grapple 👍

[languid bronze]

In the meantime, can we scrap the active block feature?

[green charm]

insanely op in pvp but I understand why you want to keep it

[slender harbor]

Have any other Fighters experienced issues knocking Rogues out of stealth with AoE attacks?

[green charm]

you need to deal 10% of their hp before the stealth drops

[slender harbor]

That is insane, I was unaware of that

[green charm]

yeah the class is astonishingly stacked atm

[slender harbor]

Kinda not testing the game right now due to the strength of rogues atm, I was able to be killed in about 2 seconds while the rogue was stealthed in my face without being able to knock them out of it. I was level 22, they were level 18.

[green charm]

understandable

it's a zero skill faceroll class

until they change things a bit it's not going to be fun to play, especially as fighter

rogue is currently just a better fighter

the best place to leave feedback is on the forums

[umbral seal]

Dumping bard for rogue 😂

[elfin coyote]

nerf rogue to the fucking ground

[green charm]

have to agree with this

[candid briar]

not yet
first they should focus a combat stat fix (defense/offense)
any big tweaks before that just wont feel good
and no - im not a rogue main
it just doesnt make sense to adjust a class because thanks to bad defense values it can 2 shot ppl

[umbral seal]

something finally came in and disrupted the bard and mage.

"nerf it to the ground!"

meanwhile there's still rangers that can snipe for 12k.

Bard wands still doing 2-3k auto attacks. Mage firebolts and conflag still killing people in 1-2 seconds. As shit as fighters are, it's possible for a geared fighter to 2 shot someone.

This isn't a 1 archatype problem.