alpha-two-archetype-chat

[kindred knot]

No your resonant weapon is applied by the most recent melody played when weaving 2 melody’s

[plush pawn]

Ah so your active channel, not the overflowed stack, righto thanks

[hybrid snow]

Na i dont think its a nerf. ..iron aura more mitigation. Intercept more Health. Grit can be up the hole fight. And more dmg

[spiral grove]

Iron aura used to be 10>then 2>now 5...really they just found a mid ground maybe

[spiral grove]

intercept got lowered for yourself lol wym more health? and grit a toggle now not passive

idk how that equates to it being up for the whole fight now when it can stack up twice only

Like??

are we reading the same thing

also more dmg where they nerfed slam

upped inciting by 25%

[hybrid snow]

Intercept increse from 8% to 10%
Grit was what before? 10%? Idk. No you can have with 2 sracks 20% and no dmg penelty

[spiral grove]

K hold pls

[kindred knot]

The tank was mostly nerfed in threat generation likely to balance the increased damage. Doing 100 damage with 500% threat gives the same threat as doing 500 damage with say 100% threat. Mitigation is now 2-5% more iirc with more magic mitigation but its active mitigation through buffs from abilities rather than passive mitigation now. So you have to be ontop of your buff uptime to have the same levels of mitigation as before. Hence my mention of rogue being necessary in my above post for extra layers of DR.

[hybrid snow]

I think 20% mitigation from grit is big

Ans no dmg penalty

[spiral grove]

Threat generation is w/e when you can just spam aura anyways? idk I've never lost aggro and If you mean 100 dmg with 400%^threat from inciting strikes then yeah...but that skill was a joke to use. might as well just auto attack

wait

Can we send the changes of the patchnotes in here or is it not allowed?

[hybrid snow]

No its not allowed

[arctic wadi]

Vengeance also doesn't break weapon combos now and got a damage and shielding buff. And now it's on a timer/charges system instead of using courage which is big

[spiral grove]

kke

in any case

Grit

Changed from a toggle to now a 10sec duration which can be stacked up to 2 times

Each activation = 40 courage
each stack = 10% miti
supernatural grit passive will grant half of the phys as magic dmg so 10/5 - 20/10

it's like

bad

[kindred knot]

Overall tanks should be more stable in sustained combat but they’ll be spikey at the beginning of pulls till they can build up courage to get their buffs up

[hybrid snow]

You can have grit up from beginning till end

[spiral grove]

Sure that's all nice and well but you can't say they nerfed

lol

Indomitable spirit nerfed by 10%, intercept from 12 on ourself to 10%

absorpotion field from 20 to 15%

it's weird.

[marsh coral]

Isn't that all you can do now, though?
If you need to spend 80 courage every 10 seconds to maintain Grit, I assume you don't have a lot of wiggle room for other Courage-based abilities, right?

[spiral grove]

^

Slam costs 40 courage too now 😂
Ground pound from 33 to 50

I don't get these numbers genuinely

[hybrid snow]

Didnt felt any of that tbh on ptr. Was ez to build courage

[spiral grove]

Did they replace the passive from slam with something else?

or can you not say that yet?

[marsh coral]

thanks for the feedback
I guess we'll see how it goes, I'll create a brand new lvl 1 Tank next week once the changes are implemented ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spiral grove]

I'd say the same but I been playing tank since p1

Vengeance finally became useful(?) and they made it single target. sadge.

[hybrid snow]

Yeah best is a Main tank will try these changes. You will test and experience when Update comes live. I could only tell my experience

[spiral grove]

I mean Nyce will prob put something out but yeah I don't have access to PTR atm so

can't say much

[green charm]

fairly certain

there will be tears

jk implying anyone will stand still long enough to eat 3 hits

[outer sentinel]

As a Tank i hope/assume these changes will be an improvement. the only iffy one is Grit being a clickable with 2 stacks, and it being virtually impossible to track buffs in parties when you have like 18 icons struggling to be the top one

[green charm]

I think overall it's good changes

adding more mechanical skill to playing tank

[hybrid snow]

Yeah they need to visual the 2 Stack from grit. Would be so helpful

[spiral grove]

I hope there's like a...idk blue aura for when you have 1 stack activated and another aura for when you got 2 activated

[spiral grove]

Imagine with our AMAZING CC!!

Tank is cooked, I said it

[green charm]

half baked

give them time

they need to add like 3 or 4 more skills

[spiral grove]

I think I like the general idea of tank..but by the standards of any other class

our dmg just looks like a joke especially when trying to get away with some solo stuff

[green charm]

in return you get to build minecraft walls and go fishing

[spiral grove]

Fishing? what's that. Never touched a pole like that in my life

I wanted to try something diff since it's Alpha anyways and I usually always go DPS but I was like duck it

IF hook worked 100% of the time and wasn't a janky ass lasso or whatever. It'd be so fucking nice.

Wall is very clunky imo

[green charm]

game can't decide if it wants you in action cam or classic mode

[spiral grove]

I'll never touch action mode

disgusting

[green charm]

agree but all of the skills work better with it

[marsh coral]

no pls no more visual auras, i'm like this half the time already during pulls

[spiral grove]

That's not on us though

[green charm]

farming spots get bright as fuck yeah not wrong

[spiral grove]

That's just because of the mass AoE effects from the mages

but that should easily be adjustable I feel like

[green charm]

just put a counter on the skill icon

[spiral grove]

for the stacks?

well yeah

but MEH

intimidating aura looks so goofy

meanwhile ranger buffs or w/e on themselves looke so dope

im getting sick and tired of these visual updates to the same skills but they end up look sillier

[green charm]

aegis looks kinda tight

but it's a "i hate myself and I want to die" button

[spiral grove]

oh yeah

I don't eeven bother with Aegis

[marsh coral]

Bards Dances, Mages "Imma firin mah lasar", Fighters spin2win, Rangers sniffing glue, Clerics doing golden circles and waves
getting blind never felt so good

[spiral grove]

The radius is so small it's meh

fighters spin is barely noticable lol

but yeah no I get you

it's just like a nice aura glowing around our body from idk. red to golden for grit would be dope or w/e

I feel like all the other classes their abilities look so so much better visually and polished

[green charm]

rea;l

[spiral grove]

maybe im just tired of playing tank

[green charm]

other players should just not take damage

[spiral grove]

I mean if you're not in the front you're doing something wrong

and I already have protect on whichever fighter is with me anyways

1sec

lets be real

when you read inciting strikes, put it on your bar..tested it. did you not insta remove it?

[spiral rain]

I changed class xD

tank is not useful/fun after levelling (not a personal opinion)

[green charm]

it never made it to the bar

[spiral grove]

HAHAHA

[green charm]

grit only gets toggled if I'm scared

[spiral grove]

That's actually

I think I still have it on my bar maybe even skilled into it

cuz the rest is useless

slam knockback is getting removed anyways

charge passive doesn't work

idk man

[green charm]

slam is dead

nfi why they kill slam

[spiral grove]

Slam actually does hot dmg tho

YEAH

WHY

it was fine as is..maybe even too long of a cd

20s on that bih?? cmon now

[green charm]

yeah I thought it was just bonus damage, nothing fancy

[spiral grove]

this 4m range btw is cap

I swear I've tested it on people and mobs too but

It feels more like 2

[spiral grove]

NAZBOZ, ELBOZ, NAZBARD what next

Shield assault and shield slam are both also so to use. more so cuz it rubberbands you back to your starting point

there's no point in using it to gapclose

[green charm]

been okay for me

only works in action cam though

I think hook and shield slam are action cam skills for some reason

[spiral grove]

Oh really? fk

maybe that's why cuz I always play classic. so say you're at spot 1 - you slam to 3. you get halfway stuck and by the end of the cast you're just back at 1

it's not me lagging. it happens anywhere anytime 😂

but there's no shot im changing to action mode to see shield slam work properly

also wait..

you saying hook works for you??

[daring sentinel]

the fighters Lunging Assault has the same issue. I tested it with a mate, he kept chasing me and couldn't activate the skill at the advertised distance. It was pathetic really, all there was missing was the Benny Hill music

[spiral grove]

A lot of the skill ranges are wrongly described or just not functioning as is.

Ik with slam I might be trolling but with the tanks protect ability and passive to increase it by another 10m is a complete joke

[green charm]

99% of the time

[tulip grotto]

Anyone who says grapple works more than a third of the time has never made a tank and that's just straight facts

Even reflect works noticeably more often and it's probably hovering just above the 50% mark for me

[spiral grove]

Cappppp

[spiral grove]

😂😂😂😂

[waxen kindle]

Reading this chat makes me hate my tank.... But in all seriousness, I think the incoming changes will be good.

Vengeance is getting a much needed buff, no grit toggle means a good overall damage buff. Inciting strikes is getting love and the class is becoming a spender class which I think is a good direction over just running with max courage all the time.

I do worry that tanks are getting a massive PvE nerf... But we will see and honestly if they do that's not a bad thing. Tanks are 2 good at PvE tanking right now

[tulip grotto]

My death count disagrees but maybe that's just me

If a 3 star mob even looks at me I just fall over dead.....

[lethal oar]

bring a healer with you and it instantly becomes their fault.

[tulip grotto]

Always a healers adjust situation

[coral garnet]

Maybe we’ll see some 2-tank meta as long as dps can still meet TTK. My last carphin xp group had surprisingly good damage with 2x cleric, 2x bard, 2x mage

[spiral grove]

idk why they seem to think we are fine in PvE lol

the only reason you guys are feeling okay is most likely cuz you're running double cleric comp..which I mean lets be real. never should've been a thing but without it. you'll 100% get clapped.

[tulip grotto]

Ya I keep thinking I'm trash at the game (I probably am) because in any tough situation in PvE I fall apart like I'm made of paper...... Not the best feeling as a big beefy tank.

[spiral grove]

no grit toggle feels weird imo. as far as inciting strikes and buff goes is...yeah right. 50% to 75% = a joke js. 😂
also courage just needed an overhaul I feel like but maybe the changes are decent towards courage...however slam nerf by 25%...for why?

[spiral grove]

👀 what comp you running then?? or you pulling entire towers?

wtf

[tulip grotto]

No fairly small pulls but I've been 1 tapped by random unnamed mobs several times from over half health

[spiral grove]

I mean all you really can do for giga pulls is pop spirit>fortify with max courage obvs - have grit up obvs...and pls tell me you are running crit avoidance on 1 wep at the very least? besides that you just pop intercept on cd on yourself>absorption field

that's weird

1 tap by random unnamed mobs? that shouldn't happen for sure

pop shake it off for a lil max self heal while spirit is up

and besides that and "active blocking"/rolling into wall you can't really do anything

It's just casters I think that hit absurdly hard and like I said crit avoidance

the moment you go from 20% to 0% you get blasted by so many crits it's fucked

[tulip grotto]

Ya 1 crystal golem coughs in my direction and that's game over if I don't have absorption up

[spiral grove]

oh I haven't tried those yet

you soloing them?

[tulip grotto]

I do not have Crit avoidance though.... I have pleb gear and that is for sure part of the problem

[spiral grove]

get crit avoidance 😂 it'll definitely help with those absurd hits

yeah gear can definitely help

[spiral grove]

is this with 2 healers and a bard in your team?

[tulip grotto]

I think last time I was running seph it was 1 and 1

[spiral grove]

yeah

even for me I think the second I go from 2 clerics to 1 at places im iffy about. It's cooked. so AGAIN idk how people are saying tanks are 2 good at PvE Tanking

the only thing we've got going for us is taunting/aura

legit.

without that, you might as well not play tank tbh

we take as much dmg as other classes do which is insane to me

[tulip grotto]

Ya if you require double healer to live shits not right 🤣

[lethal oar]

as a bard that does a lot of off healing in groups, the fire mages scare me. They one tap so many players its dumb

[spiral grove]

yeah

the casters anywhere are just braindead overtuned lol

Idk if their dmg output got adjusted a bit recently but yeah

[lethal oar]

i started rolling with dedicated CC just for them. its easier than trying to heal through it.

[spiral grove]

ofc

gotta cc that flame throw perma

[waxen kindle]

Hits twice so it's 150% now and builds courage. Combined with a low CD, great threat gen, and low mana cost it's a staple ability.

Casters are a challenge, I am guessing we will see folks going 5/8 heavy, 3/8 medium because the lack of magic resist is an issue.

[lethal oar]

i dont know, i think the playerbase just needs to start relying on dedicated CC more. the casters are a breeze with a fighter and bard just spamming them with trips, stuns and silences

all the previous mmos have been about burst DPS AoE pulling, our brains are hardwired for that now

[spiral grove]

idk what you need threat gen for when you perma aura anyways? and low mana cost..I mean like I said you could be AAing and doing more dmg 😂 and I know it hits twice...still.. 50%/75% per strike. 100 to 150% it's w/e no? the skill is just memeish. idk how you can call it a staple ability really.

8 mana cost and 8s cd cuz it's a joke

[spiral grove]

yeah true even If you do that tho. If one caster gets additionally pulled or w/e It's an insta abort the zone angle.

[lethal oar]

nah, just more CC ;). incaps for days

[spiral grove]

Yeah, tell a tank that.

Meanwhile bard can CC for life literally. mages have an AoE sleep

Fighters can incap for days too

idk why it feels like tank gets the short end of the stick for everything

[lethal oar]

its hard not to AoE spam with how the talent trees are set up

[spiral grove]

AAAAAAAH

idk maybe Im cooked from playing too much tank

will just have to try rogue when it comes out orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.............................................................fighter/ranger.

[lethal oar]

fighter is fun. im personally waiting on rogue

[gilded osprey]

Dw if the fighter changes dosnt feel good I'll be there right next to you leveling a rogue

😂

[agile saddle]

It’s being changed, you should see the tank changes in the ptr patch notes

[spiral grove]

? ik the changes. what are you refering to tho?

[spiral grove]

yeah you lmk how it is

[lethal oar]

i was about to test the fighter changes but then had a login issue, and by the time it resolved, i fell aseep 😦

[spiral grove]

worst case we'll just be an army of lowbob rangers

[agile saddle]

Vengeance
Damage increased from 90/100/110% to 120/130/150%
Temporary health increased from 0.1/0.2/0.3% to 2/2/2%
Removed Courage cost. Added a mana cost of 10 and an 8-second cooldown per charge
Targeting has changed from AOE to single target
No longer breaks combo progression, allowing it to be weaved between combos
Successive combos cancel some post frames from each previous combo step
Incoming hits now reduce the cooldown by 0.5 seconds, and blocked hits reduce the cooldown by 1 second
Has a 1 second internal cooldown
Temporary health duration increased from 10 seconds to 8 seconds
Multiple temporary health stacks now properly expire
Final combo attack now stuns the target for 3 seconds
Grit
Changed from a toggle ability to now have a 10-second duration which may be stacked up to 2 times
Each activation now costs 40 courage
Each stack grants 10% physical mitigation
Removed the damage penalty and threat bonus
No longer breaks combo progression
The Supernatural Grit passive will now grant half of the physical mitigation as magical mitigation
Courage (passive)
No longer provides passive mitigation
Inciting Strikes
Damage increased from 50% per hit to 75% per hit
Now generates 3 courage per hit per enemy hit, and up to 10 enemies per swing
Threat multiplier reduced from 400% to 300%
Ground Pound
Cooldown reduced from 60 seconds to 20 seconds
Courage cost increased from 33 to 50
Slam
Damage decreased from 200% to 175%
Removed the mana cost and cooldown
Each activation now costs 40 courage
Removed the Knockback passive
Absorption Field
Temporary health reduced from 20% to 15%
Iron Aura
Increased mitigation from 2% to 5%
Intercept
Temporary health increased from 8% to 10%
No longer has an increased effect when cast on self
Fortify
No longer scales duration off Courage consumed
Indomitable Spirit
Max health and healing received has been reduced from 30% to 20% ```

[spiral grove]

Thank you but I said I know but you were saying "It's being changed"

like

I don't get it

[elder talon]

some medium armor on tank would make sense but i also think tanks should generally be looking at mentality/con a little more and focusing a little less on str. threat generation is so absurdly high still that you don’t really need to do damage.

[agile saddle]

That skill generates courage per enemy hit now
Which is required when grit costs 40 every 10 seconds

[spiral grove]

sure. all nice and well but when you're getting slammed anyways by that many mobs you build courage so idk im sure it'll still be a meme skill. if not, fun. we'll be spamming that for the rest of our lives

[spiral grove]

it would and It's what I wanted to do but medium parts were so shit to craft at a decent rarity or even impossible and set bonusses being near irrelevant

I ended up with hmm...6 heavy and 2 medium I believe

[elder talon]

there are a few light pieces I saw that had ment/con, maybe a few of those would work. the 3pc isn’t too exciting but it’s a ton of MR.

[spiral grove]

🤣

meh even then

[elder talon]

yeah

[spiral grove]

The numbers won't justify going for it when we got casters in full light gear with 500/600 mr

[elder talon]

no i agree with you its really weird and mostly just results in every group avoiding caster mobs

[spiral grove]

and they get clapped like its nothing

mhmm

[elder talon]

well tbf they have like half your hit points

[spiral grove]

they're doable...sure 1 2..at a time...3/4 if your dps are mark demons and focus ccing their own

[elder talon]

and no grit magic reduction

[spiral grove]

but it's just w/e

trueee

[elder talon]

yeah

[spiral grove]

but

[elder talon]

they’re overtuned af

[spiral grove]

I should actually check

cuz im p sure even with grit on which is getting nerfed yay fun! I still have less magical mitigation compared to a giga geared cleric or w/e

but

in the PTR they did say

so this is nice

[elder talon]

yeah firestarter crits were real dumb

there’s a reason mob spells can’t crit in some games

[dark robin]

So..
real talk, should a tank wear full light armor? Like, if there was some kind of light armor with +str or +con(like that one 'butchers apron')? To me, between a shield and all the tank skills, physical mitigation seems handled. You could even throw in a food buff that increased block chance

It's the one weak spot of tanks

Or, I guess medium armor could work too

[elder talon]

no because for efficiency you want to reduce physical damage by the most you can while still being able to consistently live through pulls with 2 casters

[dark robin]

Word

I guess food that gives magic evasion or magic block chance would be goated

[elder talon]

i tend to think the solution is just defensive gearing with mostly heavy armor and more focus on con/ment/max hp + Intrepid buffing defensive stats a little bit

[dark robin]

(otter meat does that I think)

[elder talon]

how dare you eat otters

[dark robin]

I'm a cook on my main, and the food buffs are amazing

I will say though.... intrepid have to fix passive block mitigation. It's like: "You take 150 damage" ... "You take [Blocked] 150 damage"... Like, what's the point?

[spiral grove]

😂

passive blocking...defensive stats.. reflect

TONS OF MEME SKILLS ON TANK

fk

[dark robin]

It's legit frustrating. I've mained cleric since Phase 1. Made a tank 2 weeks ago, and have had a lot of fun, but....man... All I'll say is I hope the bug fixes are as big as the new patches in this upcoming update

[spiral grove]

😂 fingers crossed.

They're desperately needed tbh. Like I said it feels like tanks got the short end of the stick in all cases.

Visuals, skills being messed up or just non existent and just being squishy af

[dark robin]

Everyone talks about nerfing damage, especially in pvp. The answer is that defense, across the board, needs to be buffed -- with tanks getting extra love and care

[spiral grove]

Yeah that's def one way to go about it

Ttk is just eh atm

Unless it's 2 wet noodle tanks clapping each other

[tropic hull]

Is it me or passives for form of fluidity and celerity still will be pretty much useless?

[carmine stratus]

Dogue

Rogue

[glad cloak]

I dont like missing or evasion as a way to avoid damage. Feel bad when I do big snipe or vine trap and it misses. I’d rather have resists or chances to reduce damage

[warm hemlock]

Chogue

[gilded osprey]

yep

[junior egret]

celerity seems mandatory to stagger

[tropic hull]

Yup

[glad cloak]

I don’t like the way that bard plays personally (controversial opinion I know). I have played 1-10. I don’t like how the melodies keep wearing off. There’s times where it expires and I don’t notice. I don’t like the generic affects multiple people option for skills. Like the time one or the mana giving one. I’d rather have them be single target only, stronger, with longer CD. Or melted into other skills based on your choice. When it’s multi person it’s like a ‘push it off cd’. Yes there’s positioning to try and ‘target’ which multiple people but meh.

I don’t like the clarity for the edges of the aoe skills. Like the frost or maddening dance. I don’t think the pulses for when it ticks are clear enough.

I don’t like getting body blocked by mobs when I slide. I feel like sliding through enemies should be a good thing.

The skills look too similar to me also.

Overall it seems a button mash that’s setup combos or press X/Y when damage happens or you need to remove cc from allies. Idk

[random blaze]

No, ask the healer if the tank should be in anything other than heavy armor. What is the purpose of being more squishy?

[glad cloak]

I like clerics haling toolkit a lot, and the utility of Ranger is nice with the speed boosts and vines. Ranger ammo doesn’t really feel like a choice that matters. At least with the travel time of lightning arrow for silences and its reliability. Snares are so common you will DR your mages chills. Marks and hunts are giga meh. Raven is neat as an on hit option

[raven sequoia]

I'm naming my rogue Rouge

Come at me

[waxen kindle]

Full medium/light no. The 3 piece and 5 piece bonuses are really nice and you need a lot of physical resistance.

I can see going 3 into either medium or light being a thing though.

[maiden hearth]

I planted my flag on myself the other day and Idk why maybe because it was a slight hill, the flag planted IN me, and I was basically locked in place until it expired. Miserable experience.

[spiral grove]

😂😂😂😂

I haven't had that happen to me yet but I can see how that's grief

[daring sentinel]

the "melody getting disabled by escape" fix is coming. You can already fix it by yourself, it's just a matter of unbinding and binding the close window keybind. the whole single target / AoE skill versions on bard should work like rangers "held" abilities. Only on bard you should allowed to quick button press for single target, or hold for AoE. Flourish could use a buff so you dont get body blocked by allies...but I dont see this happening for enemies. Regarding "button mashing"... bard balancing aside, it has one of the more interesting skillsets in the game which allows for different roles/playstyles, even if Intrepid seems to be hell bent at killing one atm. Most other classes have f...all of choices with how you can play those archetypes. That aspect of the game falls flat.

[lethal oar]

i really like the idea of the quick cast and hold for single target and AoE.

[daring sentinel]

nothing new here, ranger already has it. switching between single and AOE versions of your skills is one my personal complaints about the bard

[willow mesa]

Agree. It’s fun to have your character scale with levels and gear, feels rewarding. Defensive should just scale as well as offensive

[tepid zinc]

any tank available right now, i just want to talk about a build i am trying 🙂

[agile saddle]

It’s a bug

Pressing escape ever turns off your melodies
Other thing that turns them off is any cc or mini stun like skill(scarab scream, Minotaur berserker slam) of which there is many

There is also some changes coming in the ptr for bard
They are losing a lot of damage in the kit

[spiral grove]

👀?

[blazing bobcat]

Hey, i heard that ennemies can developp a 'CC resistance' ? Especially with snare and chilled... How does that work and does it trigger with other CC ?

[marsh coral]

Nah, at least not until Intrepid comes up with worthwhile POIs where all enemies ONLY deal magic damage in abundant quantities
In that case, then yeah, you'd start seeing Tanks grabbing light gearset for the Magic Defense

[marsh coral]

Yes, that is correct. It happens when a CC effect is overlapped or chained in quick succession.
It makes the enemy immune to that particular CC ( + a "paired" CC ) for 10 seconds.

There are 5 immunities currently:

1. Incapacitate Immunity
2. Root/Freeze Immunity
3. Snare/Chill Immunity
4. Silence/Disarm Immunity
5. Trip/Stun Immunity

For example: "Snare/Chill Immunity": if, as a Mage, you keep your target Chilled for too long ( Frostbolt, Hoarfrost... ), it will trigger the "Snare/Chill Immunity" for 10 seconds on that target, and he won't be able to be neither Snared nor Chilled until the Immunity expires.

It's designed to prevent players from permanently chain CC'ing their targets.

It is also the reason why you shouldn't just throw random CCs around: nothing worse than seeing a 3-star Seeker doing his "Corrupted Sacrifice" and noticing that he has Trip/Stun Immunity or Silence Immunity on.

[spiral grove]

HAHAHA SACRIFICE

[marsh coral]

bruh... and the glue sniffers in your party are arguing about "why did the Ranger need on STR gear????" while you're sweating trying to time a Trip after the Immunity hoping to God the Thaumaturge doesn't spawn

good times, love this game

[spiral grove]

I played with a CP and usually with guildies so that bum shit doesn't happen. I cba

[blazing bobcat]

Thank you very much ! Is there an indicator that shows when an immunity is active ?

[spiral grove]

There's redish debuffs under their hp bar but imo it's a bit meh

[marsh coral]

Yeah there's a small icon that pops up in the debuffs of your target, not very visible but it's there

[spiral grove]

They should make it so that you can have specific buffs/debuffs show from a target on the side of your screen

bigger and more visible

ppl would love that QoL change

[marsh coral]

Yeah, i'd love to have the ability to show certain debuffs on an enemy's nameplate too
But it's all good, we're still in the early days, lot of time for improvements

[spiral grove]

But prob something for down the line

Yuh

[tepid zinc]

Would be great for sure 🙂

[timber magnet]

I’m so sad it really feels like intrepid just wants us to be mana batteries :(

Menacing resonant procs needed a nerf but didn’t deserve to get nuked

[daring sentinel]

love "rando" parties, no master looter, half of the party staring at the floor, because "loot", ocular teleports and wipes half of the party with one buggy skill cast, because a pro ranger doesnt understand that his skill goes through a wall, or hits things outside his client render distance 🧂

[daring sentinel]

meh, resonance stacks were left untouched. Shock stacks should have never been in the game with that wands "rate of fire", one of the reasons I havent touched wands since P1, it was disgusting how quickly things died. The only question I want answered is who was the genius who thought that the incoming Dark Lullaby changes make sense from the perspective of that skill mechanics.

[timber magnet]

The shock stacks on resonant were a lot of the damage tho, no?

It’s hard to tell when we don’t have any visuals on shocked

And gutting dark lullaby is also a real bad call

[daring sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/jehova-brian-steine-steinigung-gif-11999365499949225272

I will wait with getting salty to after I compare the new dps "potential" after the patch drops. After that, we can talk actual numbers, compare and start throwing stones

[timber magnet]

It’s just the dps nerfs in conjunction with giving us a saga that’s also just more mana regen now, feels like a bad direction

I get bard’s damage was over tuned but the changes on paper really seem to hit too hard on one of the more fun playstyles that still brought a lot of utility

It was a fun balance between me and the bards in my guild on “who gets to run menacing this time” cause pensive is truly the most boring part of bards kit

[daring sentinel]

it was where the bards wands burst potential came from, but it was poorly designed and allowed for ridiciouls numbers. Resonance still gives you a decent dmg output...or at least this is what I hope for after this patch. Im happy to get corrected by some maths genius who has all the interactions mapped out in their head already, any moment now

[timber magnet]

Yes so fix wand

[daring sentinel]

sorry that would be a harder fix, this is not how soft dev works 😛

[timber magnet]

If it’s just intended as a bandaid to the wand issue I’m more fine with that than seeing it as a direction they’re forcing bard in

bard has such an awesome foundation with so much moment to moment skill expression and high apm, it would be sad to see that wasted on gutting the unique playstyles in favor for mana battery snooze fest

[daring sentinel]

well until now bard was the only class which had some genuine build variety, but again lets wait and see the numbers. Look at the bright side, you might have a chance to live up to your name Buff Daddy? 😄

[timber magnet]

Yeeeah I do like the saga changes lol

[daring sentinel]

they better be useful now outside doing Quake style bunny hopping.

[spiral grove]

Tank buffs soon or nah?

[tepid zinc]

Hopefully ❤️

[daring sentinel]

if bard is turned into a buff bot, Im re-rolling a tank, I hear you guys are super OP

[spiral grove]

HAHAHAH

good one p sure despite the bard nerfs they're still worth way more than a tank atm

I meant tank buffs post the PTR changes going live cuz those are nerfs

💀

[daring sentinel]

time for tank solidarity movement. Im intentionally excluding fighters, just to spite @tropic hull

[tropic hull]

Im gonna dodge roll and finally catch you

[daring sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/jaja-hahaha-run-running-running-away-gif-14097702707561656636

[sinful arrow]

Sagas are all trash anyway still probably won't use. Damage ones a dooky. Leaving only healing one and the fun jump to be used. Need to tune that shit way up if they are going to nerf shocked damage. No point in running menacing in groups anymore only 1v1. Fix wand finisher not nerf group dps buff.

Plus dps skills like chilling lament and dark lullaby didn't do enough dps to be nerfed if anything those skills needed a buff

[potent steppe]

And longer duration on antigravity!

[spiral grove]

Agreed. Fix tanks pls, ty.

[candid briar]

lullaby didnt need a buff. it was in the right place imo cause after they fixed weapon finishers it was actual work to build up the skill

but it also absolutely didnt deserve such a hard nerf for having to build up the channel - in no way u‘d pop a lullaby with only 1-2 debuffs, u always have to generate a few to actually justify pressing lullaby cause otherwise the dmg was a joke
Now itll be a joke even if u build up maximum debuff stacks, atleast thats what it sounds like on paper

[sleek burrow]

What is the best dps for a fighter? Looking for burst. I'm guessing GS

[waxen kindle]

Tanks fill an important niche role for a certain type of player. Which happens to overlap with folks who like to get kicked in the balls repeatedly out of some moral code or something...

[spiral grove]

? Are you projecting rn or 😮😬

Not every tank is like that js

[waxen kindle]

Ohh not everyone does that... I mean of course I wouldn't do that 👀

[spiral grove]

It's okay, you do you and be you

Im just tryna be a gigachad tank and have some deeps

with working skills

if no class could solo, I'd be fine with it

but knowing that almost every class can solo grind shit pisses me off

cuz you're so heavily reliant on other bobs

infuriating

[waxen kindle]

The idea it's a group game for only the class most reliant on a group is rough...

[spiral grove]

Right?

Just idk make it so that tanks can passively reflect dmg to solo stuff or have some form of self sustain

If you tell me but "dUh TaNkS hAvE a HeAl" imma slap you

[umbral seal]

and then inturn reflect and kill people with their own abilities correct?

[spiral grove]

yeah

At least people would have to be wary when they attack a tank

rn they just cycle tab through you and it's gg. you can't really be a nuisance whatsoever

[waxen kindle]

Tanks are getting significantly more sustain from Vengeance changes, so that's good. It will be interesting to see how big of an impact the changes will have.

[tropic hull]

i dont think getting 2% sustain from an ability press matters in a game where you can lose 50% of hp within 2s

[spiral grove]

Definitely! after it was a WHOPPING 0.1/0.2/0.3% initially

idk who comes up with these numbers but that shit is so cooked.

[tropic hull]

I mean its roughly 10x the increase, yay!

[spiral grove]

🤣

Gotta see how it is in real time

[tropic hull]

Maybe this time tanks will at least NOTICE the shield

[spiral grove]

HAHA

the 1st time I used it. I thought I was bugged or something and relogged. double/triple/quadruple checked

before realizing the skill was just absolutely dogshit and took it off of my bar

[tropic hull]

I used it when oom ;d

But yeah, i read it multiple times

[spiral grove]

I actually couldn't believe it

0.1%

🙃

GG indomitable spirit getting nerfed is also cooked

the one skill that made you feel a bit juicy and they instantly nuke it by 10%

hype

[spiral grove]

😂

[tropic hull]

I was kinda excited for it getting buffed, but then it also got changed to st ability

[spiral grove]

yup...

[tropic hull]

At least you can weave it in right now so I guess pressing it doesnt hurt

[spiral grove]

I suppose

but also they said they removed slams passive

did it get replaced? is another skill getting something?

maybe vengeance passive actually might not be trash anymore?

[tropic hull]

The knockback? I didnt see it used anywhere

[waxen kindle]

Vengeance also got a CD reduction based on getting hit and a stun. So it's definitely good stuff, but will it be enough? That's fair and yeah we took some nerfs on our big CD's

[spiral grove]

I mean it was there and you could use it..whether you did that's up to you

I personally didn't

but

so my question is..did they add a new passive to it...or is another skill getting a new passive

[tropic hull]

Will see when official patchnotes are posted

[spiral grove]

Yurr

idk why our big cds got nerfed tho

zzz

I wonder if we do more dmg overall now

inciting strikes got a small buff...slam got nerfed tho.. up time of ground pound should be higher and even vengeance hits harder now

[tropic hull]

But less mana hungry now with slam costing only courage

I feel like those are good gameplay changes but idk about numbers

[spiral grove]

Yeah ig. There's maybe a reason now to use courage besides being full and popping fortify

I wonder if fortify will still be 20sec duration and have max mitigation from jt

Kt

It* since it doesn't consume courage anymore

[tropic hull]

Yeah it only says that it doesnt get scaling from courage, that'd be 50% nerf on uptime and dr

huge

[spiral grove]

Exactly 🙃

Idk man 😂 from what I can see is....we are getting giga nerfed but alas. Until actually have played

Not much you can do

[tropic hull]

for sure in pvp, idk about pve since they decreased crit rate of mobs, so might be net 0

[spiral grove]

They decreased crit rate but increased dmg of higher lvl mobs tho

So

[tropic hull]

oh right

forgot

[spiral grove]

😂

[wild hornet]

Hi I am starting play today, I just check internet about archetypes and I think I will play Fighter + Cleric. Is it good for PvPvE ?

[spiral grove]

There's no secondary archetype yet. But sure cleric is good anywhere...fighter not so much

Maybe after the buffs

[wild hornet]

oh thanks

[daring sentinel]

I heard some voices from PTR who actually enjoyed the tank changes, so I suppose there is some hope?

[spiral grove]

Well I hope so cuz otherwise I'll just be afk until rogue release

Unless

Fighter gets good

Then imma rush that bih to 10. Throw my tank gear on there and wapow 😂

"Tank" gear btw

[tropic hull]

with 250str?

😄

[spiral grove]

mebbe

[spiral grove]

lol

so they

slammed in supernatural grit on slams passive slot

🤣

nice....

also

I can't tell but

[solid pendant]

bards got nerfed into the ground from whence they came

[spiral grove]

Slam

Damage decreased from 200% to 175%

???

[maiden onyx]

Fighters, are we cooked

[solid pendant]

i dont think so

[maiden onyx]

Wallop's molasses-level attack speed hurts my soul

So having to use that for tripping I'm anticipating being awful

Looking forward to +50% cylcone spin damage though

[ionic plume]

makes stance dancing free with no CD so use green form to get stagger then swap back to Brown form so you have Faster Attack speed and cast time

[maiden onyx]

Does the stances still have cast times?

[ionic plume]

yes

[maiden onyx]

no yes

[ionic plume]

thought no but they are fast enough where it feels fine imo

the biggest problem though is this

im down 2 skill points 16/18 with nothing spent D:

[maiden onyx]

Booo. 'Cause like, is trying to speed up Wallop worth the stance change animations

I just tried to avoid Wallop at all costs

Not only is it slow, it drains Momentum, so less bonuses.

At least it refunds a bit now, but still

[ionic plume]

at 86.2% my cast it 1.2,.. ill see what the cast time is at full in a sec

goes to 0.9 sec cast.. feels a little akward atm probs need to make forms be 0.5 sec to feel better

[maiden onyx]

I'm gonna jump in and see how bad it is, just finished patch

[ionic plume]

untill that skill point bug is fixed though fighter is gonna hurt

[queen ibex]

Any of the tanks here having issues with tanking? I'm trying to grind in RoS and he won't stop talking about how Tanks are F-tier with no protection anymore?

[maiden onyx]

Oof yeah, -2 Skill Points

[outer sentinel]

Grit only gives me 10%? no double stack 20%?

[outer sentinel]

we had some significant changes, and the class never was a DPS monster, they took some of our survival/protection in order to buff our offence a bit, but from what i can tell, its not there

[warped summit]

Why nerf blood infusion mana 😦

[solid pendant]

is whirlwind bugged or does literally everything interrupt it?

[languid drift]

Maintaining Grit feels like a chore, ruins new rotations But overall I love all of the other Tank changes

[spiral grove]

1 stack 2 stack

so

we're definitely getting scammed

1st ss is base

[floral sphinx]

Just patching and reading notes, and from I can see tanks semi nerfed?

[spiral grove]

so..

think of it this way

our abilities that made us feel somewhat "tanky" got nerfed

but the fact that we don't have the penatly from grit anymore

dmg penatly

makes us do more dmg

I need to double check if fortify got shadow nerfed too

it kind of sucks indomitable spirit got nerfed like that tho

from 30% to 20% is pretty big

[solid pendant]

im confused why do i need jest and mock if i have quick wit?

[waxen kindle]

I think tanks will be fine but the entire rotation just got flipped on its head. It's going to take awhile for tanks to adjust, so be patient this weekend.

[spiral grove]

So fortify gives 19% instead of 20% with full courage

[waxen kindle]

It wasn't a shadow nerf it was definitely a straight up nerf.

[spiral grove]

and still works based off of courage

idk

It didn't get nerfed

it still works the way it worked before

[waxen kindle]

What about the duration?

[spiral grove]

20sec

[waxen kindle]

Cool

[spiral grove]

base mit 5% + fortify full courage 24% for 20sec

grit is so cooked tho

the stack shows so badly under the buffs

fk man

[waxen kindle]

If maintaining grit is awkward then tanks are pretty screwed in PvE

[spiral grove]

I mean

it's not awkward

but it just looks so bad

I still think you generate a ton of courage

god bless no 25% crackhead dmg penalty cuz of grit tho

but

32,9% base magic mit
1 stack grit > 36,3%
2stack grit > 39,3%

for some reason

grits values are halved no?

meh

vengeance still feels VERY insignificant

that's even with the passive

zz

[keen crag]

man bard got fucked, its somewhere between 50-60% damage nerf. Dark lullaby (an ability that has no cc or other affects) does just a tad over an auto attack in damage. what on earth were they thinking lol

[random ore]

well us rangers got a sound buff.....

so we got that going for us

[crimson tundra]

it doesnt even feel worthcasting skills

[keen crag]

they nerfed resonance stacks too, you can only consume 3 per finisher instead of the 4. ontop of the shocked stacks ofc too

[crimson tundra]

yup. it feels absolutely horrible. going to start a new toon after i just explore the new biome

[meager cave]

Fortissimo at least looks interesting

its instant and off GCD

I feel like they will eventually consolidate and slim up with number of skills

[keen crag]

its good, but they didnt do anything to buff any of the support abilities. So youre a shit healer, youre a shit damage dealer, you give a damage buff, but otherwise youre literally a mana battery

[crimson tundra]

except if you're mana batterying, you cant even run the 3 blue themes, youd wnat to buff damage by running red

[meager cave]

yea they'll tweak it, fort + song twisting sounds a little more fun but it probably needs something else

[crimson tundra]

which feels so unnatural

i like the overal theme nerfs/rework because it makes it more intersting with how you can choose

but with everything else, the damage feels like "why bother"

the only reason to cast lullaby or lument is just for the resonance stacks

[keen crag]

but both of those are channels, if they were just instant cast single proc damage they would literally be better LOL

[crimson tundra]

they do generate two resonant stacks because they're songs

one at the beginning, one at the end

[rough knoll]

nerfs are always over-implented. If they return a portion of the nerf then you feel like you were rewarded with something

[crimson tundra]

also, its impossible to track resonsnace stacks now. it used to be first on your buffbar. Now it lands in the +3 category. The little circle around your class icon is not great

eh, i was excited for bard nerfs

[keen crag]

this is not even close to true? mobas nerf tiny amounts over several patches to reel in OP stuff. You will literally never see a moba nerfing a character by 60% !!!!!!!!!!!!!! 60% is a knee jerk reaction. If I was bad faith I would assume the balance team got stuffed by a bard one too many times and just said nuke it so I dont have to deal with it lol

mobas you will see something like "we feel X character is performing too well, damage from Q ability changed from 250 -> 230, and cooldown increaed from 4.0 -> 4.5"

this was a meme nerf.

[rough knoll]

I was speaking of most gaming companies in general

[keen crag]

then the next patch "we still feel like we are seeing too much damage here, so we have reworked the ability", OR "we see too much Q is now 230 -> 220 and cooldown 4.5 -> 4.75"

[green charm]

Bardsisters really out here crying about swinging changes in an alpha

[solid pendant]

does my nameplate get hidden with camo at a closer distance than normal?

[keen crag]

iTs aN AlpHa
brother like it or not every game that releases like this is early access, not alpha.

[green charm]

Oh no my support class that was dealing way too much damage was nerfed

[keen crag]

what class do you play, I need some context

[crimson tundra]

bard needed nerfs. It was far too much though, what it can do now is not engaging.

[sturdy temple]

Nerfing the Sagas that already were questionable and/or situational is ridiculous. 2 minute CD on Apoc and the Heal? Apoc rarely hit and did no damage, the heal was slow and ineffective. Now they're all useless and even more situational.

[crimson tundra]

im sure it'll get addressed in some time. Im just going to play a different class until then

[modern swallow]

Haven’t jumped on cuz of inventory bugs - but I’m curious how other bards are dealing with nerfs? They really so bad? I had a feeling saga being actually usable now would make up for the dps loss, that accurate at all?

[crimson tundra]

saga feels nice for the resonance generation. The utility fromt he mana one is nice i guess now that you dont lose the buffs. the DPS ones kinda feel pretty underwhelming for a 90s cd

but not sure yet

[modern swallow]

Thinking more from a pvp stand point - gut feeling is our mana battery skills will be more or less unhindered haha. There was definitely an issue with res and wand stacking, one shotting dudes either an extended finisher was a bit much

[solid pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/screams-scream-screaming-jaskier-dandelion-gif-16898188

[clever wyvern]

are there any classes actually good anymore

based on the chat seems everyone sucks now 🤣

[edgy wraith]

You suck

[pulsar phoenix]

What level 10 weps should i be enchanting?

[sharp sentinel]

Weapons with base stats

[pulsar phoenix]

is tehre a certain one tho? like the forsaken ones?

[sharp sentinel]

I don't know what kind of weapon you want though.

[pulsar phoenix]

shortbow and greatsword

[sharp sentinel]

Phys?

[pulsar phoenix]

yeah

[sharp sentinel]

Forsaken blade heroic is good lvl 10

[pulsar phoenix]

heroic is the rarity?

[sharp sentinel]

Yea

[pulsar phoenix]

ooh shit okay sounds expensive almost got like 2.5g saved

[elder talon]

If you have 2.5g you shouldn’t be enchanting anything

[sharp sentinel]

And not forsaken blades great sword but the forsaken blade and yea with that cash you can enchant rings and necks

And earring

[pulsar phoenix]

Well i meant i heard ppl say lv 10 weps enchanted better than lv 20 weaps so i was gonna start with the base weapon

and work on enchanting it later on

[sharp sentinel]

That's cause like for Lyneth we can't enchant level 20s at all

[pulsar phoenix]

ahh i see

so what about a rare forsaken shortbow would that be decent to spend my gold on

[sharp sentinel]

Tin for dex, bronze for str

[versed viper]

But your role is Support, so you're not supposed to be a damage dealer or a healer. You're supposed to improve what everyone else is doing via buffs, debuffs, cc. You assist everyone else and make them do their jobs better.

[sharp sentinel]

This is all crafting and enchanting in mind. For just base you want forsaken blades weapons

[pulsar phoenix]

hmmm okay i see - thankyou!

[spiral grove]

Now you know how tanks feel about inciting strikes

Meme skill

legit hit for 80x2

[modern swallow]

Lullaby does have cc, so it’s basically still free damage in PvP if you hit them with mez first. But ya I mean, still big nerf to its damage no doubt

[quartz rune]

Does anyone know if and how to mouse over for heals?

[versed viper]

hover casting setting

but it's bugged with Judgement I think and I dunno what else? I don't use it but that's the setting, may have issues

[hybrid snow]

So how are the tank changes for Real?

[waxen kindle]

It's not good...

[green charm]

better off than bards though

[polar wadi]

My lil songbird got her wings clipped

[languid drift]

I have only one complaint - Grit is annoying. Cant have a good rotation if you are maintaining grit at all times. Other than that i really like the changes

[torn imp]

Can't remember what the setting is called but it doesn't work with mend. Everything else has been fine

[uncut torrent]

put it this way most of my guild logged out of their tanks and rolled clerics

even if you manage a good rotation of grit and inciting strikes your damage intake is so erratic it's hard to control, vengeance is still useless and slam will ruin your grit rotation totally

they made tanks less tank feeling which is impressive as we didn't really feel like tanks before anyway, they are just a lot less fun to play now

[haughty bramble]

Someone's talking about this through here as well: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/66084/feedback-tank-changes#latest

Might be worth putting your feedbacks on that thread. Have Intrepid really take a look at tanks and improving them before next patch comes

Otherwise there's a risk of data getting skewed towards to other classes, if tanks are not played enough, simply because they were not fun or did not feel right to play as

[hidden current]

most unplayable state i've seen the game in since i started in phase 1 alpha 2 hehe 😄 kinda fun. at least i can FINALLY touch gras haha

[uncut torrent]

lol yeah I actually played for an hour and logged out last night rather than binge played after a patch like normal

[kindred bear]

Thanks for the link, pressing grit every ten seconds is definitely not fun. I'll leave some feedback

[umbral shale]

so they stealth nerfed block chance rating.

[fiery rose]

I feel like with the current change to Grit, there is no reason to even Specc into Fortify, since 2x Grit is the Same Mitigation, for the same duration, at only 80% the cost.
The only benefit Fortify has would be the 300% Courage gen, but I've never seen an issue generating courage in the first place :/

[outer sentinel]

i feel the grit change is a bad one. i like the active component, but the stacking is not working as you would expect, its visually hard to keep track of the buff and as you mentioned it is in a similar place as fortify or other actives. Im not even sure what was wrong with original grit other then being an activate once ability, id rather see it just get a 1 minute duration or have an increased tradeoff to scale

[fiery rose]

To me it feels a little like "Thwart" back in ArcheAge. That Skill, for the longest time, granted a stacking buff which granted attack speed, and was pretty much necessary for some classes. But you HAD to press it on cooldown (15s) or you'd lose all stacks. Now we got Grit, which needs to be hit every 10 seconds or we lose 20% physical mitigation.

Longer duration would be one way to "help" here, definitely, though I'm pretty unhappy with the skill as a whole now, cuz it also sort of nerfed our ability to build - and especially keep - threat

Also Fortify needs something to make it useful again, other than it being both physical and magical mitigation.

[outer sentinel]

im not even sure why tanks need the nerf, they already are relatively underperforming in the class meta currently to my knowledge, but that might be a biased view

[fiery rose]

I was okay-ish with where tanks were before. I always felt a bit squishier than I would have liked, but thought that was due to my lack of gear. Now it feels like I can't really fulfill my role without constant fear of death.

[spiral grove]

The visual tracking is annoying. They either need to make it so that we can see the stack counter better on the action bar or a pop up for our buffs that we can change size of. also It's not 20% phys mitigation 🙃 it is half that so 10% phys mit and 5% magic mit...for whatever reason. It's not working as intended. See ^ my msges above #alpha-two-archetype-chat message

[outer sentinel]

yeah no idea why even roll a tank, just grab a heavy gear fighter and over-heal, more dps

[spiral grove]

It's true, idk why the "tanking" side of things got nerfed for whatever reason.

you can definitely notice a difference especially on indomitable spirit getting a flat 10% nerf on both max hp/healing received

If and this is a big big IF....defense stats were actually decent atm and we had some form of max hp. I'd be okayish with this

but right now we don't and it feels even worse to "tank"

[spiral grove]

Not true

Fortify with max courage will give you close to 20% base mit

you DEFINITELY still want to roll fortify.

[fiery rose]

If you read what I wrote a little further down, you'll notice that I'm well aware of that

[spiral grove]

But idk why you're saying needs something to make it useful again when nothing's really changed?

[fiery rose]

And no, I don't, cuz the only benefit I see in fortify is more magical mitigation, half of that I can get with supernatural grit, one less button, and mage mobs are generally squishy

[spiral grove]

lol

you don't get 10% magic mit atm tho, you get half that but I mean If you're doing okay without it then keep it up

[fiery rose]

2x 5 is 10

[spiral grove]

You can check yourself

but we're getting half of the values atm.

[fiery rose]

cuz it's multiplicative, not additive

[spiral grove]

idk it seemed to be additive before and even then why are we tool tipping 10% for 10secs x2 stack?

surely we add that into the tool tip

[fiery rose]

Mitigation has always been Multiplicative. it's why Iron Aura with 2% was literally useless, cuz you never even got those 2%

[spiral grove]

Well that sounds useful...

[fiery rose]

Damage mitigation always takes the current value as "100%", and reduces that by X

So if you're at 40% damage mitigation already, and add another 10%, it takes the 60 as 100%. 10% of 60 being 6, you only gain 6% in stats, but TECHNICALLY it's 10% less damage than before

And it's good it works that way, because if it was just flat additive, people would at some point be able to stack to 100% and be invincible

[green charm]

dota ass formula

[fiery rose]

ArcheAge had that with Block/Parry/Evade for a LONG time, they were additive with each other, if you got your Block/Parry/Evady values to a sum of 100%, you could only be hit by magic skills. It was later changed to be multiplicative and also reduced the strength of Block and Parry, but for a long long time, well built tanks were untouchable

[small pike]

Tanks are dealing more damage than bards right now. This is some silly balance.

Just needed to nerf bard shock stacks, the other Nerfs were just uncalled for. Auto attack should not be the highest dps skill you have.

[wise delta]

Is there a new bug with mages this patch? I've fought a couple different mages on level and the damage output seems to have tripled. I wasn't getting hit nearly as much pre-patch.
I have 45% phys mit and 40% mag mit so I'm not geared poorly by any means but getting melted all of a sudden.

[spiral grove]

we're just not tanky

never have been vs magic

[waxen kindle]

I stopped playing my tank and switched to a ranger, maybe I'll switch back but currently tank just isn't fun...

Here's my thoughts on the tank and I wanted to wait until I got to try the changes.

I like removing passive mitigation from courage, before it felt bad to spend courage because the mitigation was so important.

I like the changes to vengeance, I think it makes it viable and the stun along with ability to weave is solid. Still think 2% might be 2 low for shield but overall good changes.

The problem is grit and this is a deal breaker. It's the ability that makes you a tank in PvE, without grit you're not really a tank... Having it as a stackable buff is bad, because it's a mandatory spend. Push this button every 8-9 seconds or get wrecked is what it boils down to.

There is no strategy or diversity, push the button or get wrecked... This is bad design and isn't fun.

Is it viable to push the button every 8-9 seconds? Sure, but is it in any way engaging and exciting gameplay? No.

[serene galleon]

I don’t understand why they nerfed everything this much for a wand interaction that was overtuned. Like just touch shock and a minor tweak to dark lullaby and you’re done. Now it’s not even worth casting most of these abilities because the time it takes to deploy the damage you’d be better off just auto attacking. Our mana regen is ok for pve and worthless for PvP. Our sagas are still all not worth taking. This new 8 second buff to melodies should be a 60 second buff

[solemn yoke]

remove fighter animation lock, thanks

[small shuttle]

Is the wand viable for cleric or should I look at other weapons?

[wary nova]

Agreed

[granite saddle]

Bless up

[granite saddle]

Cracked

Doing way too much dmg if you build for it

[quick pelican]

excuse me, new tank is very fun

having to rotate skills, keep buffs up, add combo skills introduces better gameplay loops than this class has ever had.

[granite saddle]

Tanks have a better one shot combo currently than fighters

[outer sentinel]

oneshot combo?

[quick pelican]

IF BUILT FOR IT

[granite saddle]

Yes

[outer sentinel]

without exploiting?

[granite saddle]

^

Yes

[quick pelican]

Yes 😉

[granite saddle]

They do giga damage

[quick pelican]

again, if built for it.

[outer sentinel]

ive not seen them do so yet, but i guess min-maxxers found it

[quick pelican]

@outer sentinel

[outer sentinel]

im seeing it, still not believing it. rarely do i have a tank trump the cleric in pvp, certainly not as fast as this lol, wtf is this build, and how much +str enchanted haha

full bis?

[quick pelican]

not full bis, no.

just got to around 375 power today, buffed

[outer sentinel]

weird. as i said, i havent been seeing this from tanks yet. all i hear and see is suffering on the sustainability and lack of raw dmg-output on soloing

[quick pelican]

I'm still wearing greens lol

[quick pelican]

Most tanks assume they're supposed to stack CON. That is an incorrect assumption. You build for STR + DEX + Crit Power and utilize your ability to rotate cooldowns + mitigations to tank while still applying damage.

[fiery rose]

I honestly couldn't care less about the Tanks Damage-Output, I wanna be Tanky, not destroy others >:C

[quick pelican]

My damage output is not nearly as high as mages or rangers, but I do have a wombo combo

[quick pelican]

It is tanky...

[fiery rose]

Did I say it wasn't?

[granite saddle]

I don’t know you had a bdsm kink

[quick pelican]

A lot of the above chat has been.

[fiery rose]

I just enjoy seeing very small numbers when I get hit.
Also "BDSM" is way too broad a field to use here, you mean masochism specifically

[granite saddle]

The numbers are small when you kill things before you take damage lol

[fiery rose]

No, when I kill things the numbers don't exist 😦

[granite saddle]

The class went from brain off dead weight

To being able to solo farm and do giga damage lol

[fiery rose]

I have never not been able to solo farm

[quick pelican]

Tank was miserable before. 0 chance to do anything outside of a group.

The solo efficiency was extremely poor

[fiery rose]

My guys I don't know how you have been playing, but I've been playing on my own for the better part of the past month

[granite saddle]

Oh

That makes a lot more sense

Carry on

[outer sentinel]

yeah still is, but i can still dislike the grit-changes (for example) i feel the (self) buffs are already hard to spot, and the current grit is worse of then fortify

[quick pelican]

I love the new grit

I love how different opinions can be

[outer sentinel]

thats regardless of output, its just mitigation and tankability for PvE situations that got slightly worse if you ask me

[quick pelican]

gamign is fun

[outer sentinel]

might be better for solo and pvp now

vengeance still is odd if you ask me

[fiery rose]

Why tho? Cuz you have to hit a button every 9.5 seconds, and can't really read the duration left?

[fiery rose]

Odd, but in a way better place than before

[outer sentinel]

yeah true, but still not where i expected it to be

[quick pelican]

No, because I get to choose how to weave it into my rotation + can use it to intentionally deflect certain skills + save fortify for other things

It gives more choices to the tank

[fiery rose]

Can't really make the most basic level 1 skill too strong

[quick pelican]

Rather than "toggle on. block. side-step'

[outer sentinel]

not expecting strong, its just an odd one

[quick pelican]

It's a kick with a shield

basically

not worth using unless you 3 combo it imo

[fiery rose]

Even Speccing into Fortify whe not up against mages exclusively is now kinda grief-ish imho

[quick pelican]

can you explain more, I don't understand

[fiery rose]

When your enemies are not mages, using Grit 2x is the same Mitigation for 80% the cost at more uptime

Speccing into Supernatural Grit instead of Fortify is imo super worth it

UNLESS up against mages exclusively, as I said

[quick pelican]

Why would you not do both?

Supernaturla Grit is very good v. mages.

[fiery rose]

Because the courage is better spent on keeping up grit then

[quick pelican]

uhhh

if you're using shield slam + blocking + rush of courage you have enough courage to rotate easily

[fiery rose]

• its one less button to press, since I already struggle with keybinds since my mouse broke xD

[fiery rose]

That's another point - it feels like a lot of these changes were made to make RoC even useful.
It was absolutely useless before xD

[quick pelican]

I love having it as another 'oh-shit' button to utilize

tanks have always been about CD management imo

[fiery rose]

It sort of is now, to add fortify, but you're basically justifying both of these skills with the other, since courage itself no longer adds mitigation

[quick pelican]

yeah but yuou can keep courgage rolling on a smaller mit until needed

so it allows you to vary your mits depending on situation

and prioritize other aspects of a rotation

[fiery rose]

I'm just generally unhappy with the current changes. Sort of "forcing" me to hit one specific skill every <10 seconds is just bad

I half like that Iron Aura got buffed, but think it's still not where it should be, and should be turned into being additive instead of multiplicative mit

[granite saddle]

Yeah you have to engage with the game lol

Its not a brain off class

You could play mana battery bard now though if you wanna brain off

[fiery rose]

forcing one specific skill 6x a minute or lose 20% mitigation is just bad design my man, and has NOTHING to do with "Brain off" stuff
I've been playing PvP-Tanks for the past 10 years, I don't need "Brain Off" stuff, I need useful, meaningful cooldowns that don't just punish me if I don't have 100% uptime

Double the Duration of Grit for all I care, but 10 seconds is just too short

[quick pelican]

It doesn't pidgeon-hole the class into one thing.

It allows tanks to vary their rotations + resource management.

Grit becomes a CD to manage depending on what you are doing.

[fiery rose]

Except it's not a CD

[quick pelican]

Rather than a mid-toggle on or off mediocre skills

[fiery rose]

It's literally on a ONE SECOND Cooldown

[quick pelican]

it literally is because you're managing your resource with it.

[fiery rose]

Courage has never been a problem tho

[quick pelican]

You only have 100 courage. You have to manage it. You can use it on Grit, Fortify, DPS skills, etc.

[fiery rose]

Shield Bash and one combo you're back up at 100

3 seconds

[quick pelican]

You also have Rush of Courage + Shield Slam to get you more resource back to use

SO it's all about choosing which skills to use with tha resource

[ocean moss]

I too love the tank changes, mix of survivability and damage. Requires more uptime courage management, however if you have a good rotation down of autos and skills, you are not in a "courage" deficit. I do see some arguments for increasing the duration for grit to allow easier access to class survivability kit. Right now in all content I feel more impactful than I did before hand, but it does require more work compared to the mind-numbing nature before hand.

[quick pelican]

And how to weave t hem together to accomplish what you're doing

[granite saddle]

I quite honestly think everyone saying the class is dead and it sucks is just having a skill issue currently

[fiery rose]

If I had everything as much as friggin Courage. I really don't see Resource Management there

[ocean moss]

It might be, and that might be what they need to design the class for in some ways, the average player to acceess and have fun

[granite saddle]

They made extremely broad sweeping changes to the class. Yes your old build is going to suck.

[ocean moss]

but i love the currentiteration

[granite saddle]

It’s really fucking strong

Tbh almost makes me want to reroll from fighter

[quick pelican]

I think a lot of it's power will be lessened with level 20 gear stats.

[dusky plover]

Mage nerfed wahhhhh.

[granite saddle]

Keep it down

It still blasts

[sleek sapphire]

We weren’t that OP, no? Don’t get it. We now have to practically stand next to a mob to get it within striking distance?

[spiral grove]

?

[fresh rapids]

While I can understand the concern for flash cure, 3.5x the mana cost for 25% more heal that can be used in hover casting vs now mend where I have to focus target honestly isn't fun. Perhaps there's a chance we could change mend to work with hover cast and be something we could cast in the middle of deliverance?

[shut niche]

They shoulda just chose one of the Flash Cure changes. Cutting the % AND increasing the mana cost was a bit heavy

[spiral grove]

Tank got griefed, gg.

No reason to play anymore tbh

[granite saddle]

[spiral grove]

tis true tho

not even copium

[quick pelican]

lol wtf are you on about

how do you figure tank for griefed?

[shut niche]

game's ruined, time to pack it up

[spiral grove]

You enjoy being as squishy as DPS?

[quick pelican]

are you serious?

[spiral grove]

ya

[quick pelican]

interesting.

you know what, you're right. ignore tanks. bad class. leave them alone.

[spiral grove]

Ppl are saying dmg got upped cuz we were legit auto attack bots and meat shielding and now that got taken away and you think we're good now?

High skill cap? resource-management?

[barren forum]

Problem with the recent tank buffs, its definitely forcing meta builds on weapons so I'm hoping archetypes branches this out. Spamming grit is necessary and if you get spare you can depending on content get some free slams or ground pounds out

[granite saddle]

[granite saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/game-day-gif-1421612078979008371

[spiral grove]

😂😂😂

Yeah okay

I can tell you're def enjoying tank

[granite saddle]

I’m a fighter

I just recognize a good thing by when I see it

[spiral grove]

Yeah right

You tripping

[dense violet]

Tank is ass now

[quick pelican]

yup. big bad.

[spiral grove]

Thanks for acknowledging it!

[rigid mortar]

[spiral grove]

😂😂 ty

Amazing

[dusky plover]

except the fact that you need one to fight anything even remotely strong.

[spiral grove]

Say that to the ppl running double cleric, bard and just wapowing everything

[spiral grove]

me

fking why even playin tank

here I thought I was going to enjoy it

[carmine pike]

pvp tanking is 100% over

we're better off playing as a vanilla wow rogue

[granite saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-fish-this-is-bait-gif-11212449

[amber vortex]

Is this your take on the bard's reactions to recent changes? 😂

[spiral grove]

I just don't get why touch our survivability skills

it's not like we were getting clapped already anyways

no con adjustment, no defense stats on gears adjusted

it's just gg

don't tell me im not geared enough either 😂 imma get madge

[carmine pike]

just build for dmg

[spiral grove]

you think I haven't?

god bless rogue is phys

got near 500 phys power 🙃

[small shuttle]

Whats hover cast?

[spiral grove]

nice

W

game.

hop off my mount

only to get griefed

[waxen kindle]

I fixed tank

Step 1 logout
Step 2 create a new toon

Solved, now I'm enjoying the game again 😃

[green charm]

give it some time

it will be ok

[spiral grove]

HAHAHA

what did you make?

[solemn yoke]

Wallop is pretty bad, plz change back lol

[waxen kindle]

Played my ranger ult, who is 10 levels lower and has basically no gear. Hits 3 times harder than my tank and is way more fun.

[spiral grove]

well I mean you're not meant to have more dmg than a ranger on a tank but like

what we had before was a joke

basically auto atk cleave demons 🙃 and facetanking

it's just we don't really feel like tanks tanks

is my gripe

[waxen kindle]

I was kind of looking for an excuse to switch, so for me it's kind of a blessing in disguise

[snow spruce]

is syphoning regeneration not supposed to work when the ranger is the one with his own buff?

[spiral grove]

I mean same

playing like this is kinda cooked

but im sure it'll show back in the class stats

[waxen kindle]

Yeah I'm not sure the intent. It doesn't seem to work on yourself, but it's not something you would put on the tank since they do very little damage. Maybe drop on a fighter?

[green charm]

It's not that bad man

[spiral grove]

🥲

[green charm]

It was bad before, now it's like bad x1.2

[spiral grove]

I am trying to

Oh okay

I thought you were serious but...😂

[green charm]

It's only a little bit worse than bad

[spiral grove]

I was gonna say

I'm trying to see the good side of it all but it's fucking cooke.d

Cooked.

[green charm]

Stay strong for a few months and when we're the first classes to get archetypes

You can laugh from the top of the hill

[spiral grove]

Highly doubt

idk

you look at rogue skill tree you're like gawd damn.

you look at bard you're like damn that's nice

you can tell there was a lot of effort and love put into those 2 classes

and that's without seeing rogue showcase either

tank just feels too scuffed

none of the abilities are getting fixed and they keep on doing

visual updates to the same 4 skills that literally doesn't do anything for us

w/e im tilted

[green charm]

What exactly is fucking you up the most

[spiral grove]

Any caster mob

Jk

[green charm]

For some reason they didn't put any cloth tank gear in the game

Archeage inspired my ass

[spiral grove]

😂

I was getting to the point where building dps tank felt decent as I could kill marauders 1v1 with 30k+ hp in the citadel and clerics

and it felt comfortableish

and now with the nerfs on survivability it just feels wonky af again

[snow spruce]

It's dogshit- needs to be a flat heal based on accumulated damage over those 5 secs...especially with a 1 min cooldown

Not trying to be an asshole, just tired of the Rangers sucking ass and feeling like the most empty shell of a class in the game

[spiral grove]

🤣

That's such cap tho

Ranger has such high burst in PvP, how can you even say that?

Get some gear and you'll be making people pop.

[maiden hearth]

The root alone makes ranger viable in medium/big scale PvP

Even a lvl 15 ranger is useful

[mossy jungle]

Tank class feels so much more punishing.... With the recent changes

[agile saddle]

1 skill shouldnt be the only reason to have that class in pvp

[versed viper]

Didn’t see anyone answer this. Yes you can definitely run wand. I do and I prefer it.

[spiral grove]

Actually. it is though

for tanks It would be hook if it worked legit but since it doesn't

you're just a meme bag standing there

wall? sure! lets just go around it

fk me

I think im salty at these tank changes

[sweet anchor]

@spiral grove yeah im disappointed at what they done to tank if anything should have gotten a buff an why take grit away from us 10sec cast 1sec cooldown you know how much concentration you have to do in a bigger mob fight an to consider ppl training an pullers pulling that extra mob or 2 they didn't mean as well as keeping agro an direction of attack away from your party an pulling strays your party agros buff tank so us tank mains can have a break now an then hahahaha

[spiral grove]

It's not even the grit thing... 😂 like It's a nuisance but really you get more than enough courage when you get hit/auto big pulls and what not. you'll always have it perma up..it just requires pressing the button twice now which is an inconvenience. I like that they took the dmg penalty away

It's just the rest of the defensive skills

nerfed for no reason

indomitable spirit rip

absorpotion field rip

intercept rip

and It's not a build diff

you could be full con and you'd still be squishy af even more now than before.

So don't @ me with build diff/gear diff

[fresh rapids]

you can hover your mouse over someone's group icon and cast a spell on them, works really well when you turn on raid frames

[vale hull]

was just about to ask how tanks were now after the update lol

[unreal garnet]

Should've just kept grit how it was and add a different passive that you can turn on for more damage so we actually have a chance to solo something without feeling like it's being hit with a wet noodle.

[spiral grove]

yup.

[ionic plume]

I think there was a lot of nerfs because there were geared tanks at 25 supposedly getting near 99% damage resistance in the node wars

[spiral grove]

Yeah it's cuz NA abused the braindead mitigation bug and numbers might've gotten skewed

It's so fucked though

[tight portal]

Man I love being squishier after this patch really makes me think about which emberspring I'm near more. Glad I traded that so I can do almost no damage up from no damage.

[ionic plume]

Think a better approach would to Make pvp have different values then vs pve

Oh didnt know there was a mitigation bug

[tight portal]

You got mitigation from multiple weapons at once

and a few other bugs

that are all fixed now

[spiral grove]

HAHAHAHA

Nah the mitigation bug came from stacking aegis

you could get up to 95% phys/magic miti like its nothing and just be a giga tank

[tight portal]

after the changes I just feel like I'm a fighter with wall and pray they can't find their spacebar or strafe keys.

Supernatural grit being nerfed when Mages are still a thing 🤣

[spiral grove]

Yeah idk

some1 said it's multiplicative instead of additive but I smell cap.

im p sure it was additive prior

like 80% sure

[tight portal]

Yeah it feels about the same when I have 2 stack grit up but I never double checked that before the patch

Fortify being a variable cost just doesn't make sense to me now that courage is a resource you spend on an active mitigation but maybe I'm a bit weird on that take. I'd rather it be free or a flat cost so I'm not worried about making sure to refresh my grit before casting fortify which cleans out my entire courage bar.

[maiden hearth]

So you’re saying… we should bully tanks whilst we still can?

[solid pendant]

Am I completely mad not to take scattershot? I don't like being in that range for it

[waxen kindle]

Scattershot is really strong and the range is longer than you might assume

[waxen kindle]

Fighters wearing heavy are the new tanks.

[small shuttle]

Thanks, I liked wand the most. The proc rate is nice.

[mossy jungle]

My big issue is that we have to keep track of more shit while actively trying to to tank and have situational awareness that does doesn't really need to take into account

The gameplay just feels worse

[waxen kindle]

For tanks, they see the data. They know how many folks are running tank, just play what you enjoy. If you don't enjoy tank then don't play it, the data speaks for itself.

If folks enjoy the changes and class it will show, if they don't it will also show. Either way enjoy the game and don't stress it, it's Alpha my friends.

[mossy jungle]

its not that simple if your the tank for your group of friends

[waxen kindle]

it is that simple, if your not having fun playing then you friends should understand that. You can still do content without a tank, you just have to change how or what content your doing

[marsh coral]

damn people are already starting to form tankless parties

[waxen kindle]

tanks are not really needed, folks just take a fighter instead and murder hobo faster anyways

[daring sentinel]

yeah, especially trigger happy rangers on the 3rd floor of Carphin 😂

[waxen kindle]

As a lv 14 ranger, I am already planning to just blame the mage ... "Geez maybe stop throwing ball lighting", you're going to get us wiped"

[daring sentinel]

mages are easy scape goats, half of the time they are asleep behind the wheel anyway

[solid pendant]

as a cleric heal do i really need a melee weapon when I already have book?

[waxen kindle]

Weapons are stat sticks, so yes you want both a melee and ranged weapon.

[solid pendant]

i thought only the equipped gives you the stats though?

[waxen kindle]

Unless they changed it, both weapons give stats. Only the equiped weapon skill tree applies though

[solid pendant]

i thought it was a big and they fixed it

bug

[fallow escarp]

No that’s never been a bug

The bug was keeping all the passives you leveled in any weapon

[solid pendant]

aha

i feel dumb now been rolling with a second weap for 12 levels

without

[bright flame]

https://tenor.com/view/bite-cat-sneak-attack-gif-14883272

[elder gulch]

Rogue + Cleric = Cultist

https://tenor.com/view/britney-spears-knives-knight-knives-b-spears-dancing-gif-4010454518882359053

[bright flame]

https://tenor.com/view/i-will-shank-you-bean-abbi-jacobson-disenchantment-i'm-gonna-kill-you-gif-10115244425359496733

[spiral grove]

Idk

I'm v curious to see the data they've got regarding tanks

[rustic elm]

Hello, I used to be decent tank, I feel pretty shit now, thanks.

[unreal wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/red-button-spam-press-button-click-gif-17367381

GRIT BUTTON

Tank is shit right now spamming grit non stop is painful

I'm going for the high score spamming grit 100 times a minute.

[jovial timber]

Bard feels a lot worse after patch. But digging through the patch notes i cant seem to put my finger on what the big hit was.

[marsh coral]

DPS bard was nerfed, support bard was buffed slightly
You now drop max 3 resonant stacks instead of 4, and Menacing Melody's resonant effect was nerfed: it now only gives 1 shocked stack ( instead of 5 ), so it no longer deals 2390423982498 damage every time it procs

[verbal anvil]

i agree with it feeling like crap after ther change, but lets be honest you got to hit it every like 9 seconds 😄 a way to track it would make it a bit easier but still would suck

[median egret]

I can live with refreshing Grit, but why does fortify still consume all courage when it no longer gets any bonus from it?

[spiral grove]

Can we get a TANK fix soonTM pls?

@median egret cuz they trolled

Slam is broken in tooltip too

grit is fkedddd

fortify broken

Tank broken

[median egret]

I'm curious how you think grit is fked, is it the refreshing part?

[spiral grove]

That and the values not adding up even tho ppl have said it's multiplicative rather than additive

[median egret]

So the 2nd 10% isn't applied to the new number, but the original?

Could've kept the talent but have it give grit longer duration

All in all, while courage really needed a rework, and making it a resource spending class the right way to go imo, grit as it were did have an acceptable tradeoff.

[versed viper]

the idea of a DPS Bard is ridiculous. Your role in a party is Support. If you're not doing that, you're a waste of a space in party. The archetypes in this game are your role. You can eventually when all system are out, spec to be a support with better DPS than others, but that's it. If you wanna DPS, you're better off rolling a DPS class.

[unreal wolf]

It is unreasonable I am on the fence about making a macro to click it for me every 9.8 seconds so I can get the GPH (Grit per hour) down and be more efficent.

The avg soy jack tank is pulling 395.6043 Girt per hour if they do not miss their 2x stack. I bet I can get that number down without wasting courage

With my macro I can get my grit down to 367.3469 GPH peak male figure

https://tenor.com/view/chad-monke-gif-20835999

[green charm]

unless you are grinding every seconds of the hour, while your total GPH may be up your effective GPM will be down

you're missing a whole 0.2 seconds GPS

[fallow escarp]

They could increase the timer to like 12 secs imo but the real problem is the lack of clarity. Buff UI sucks and hotbars should show corresponding buff duration as a "global indicator", otherwise, grit uptime is easy. There aren't many buttons in the current game

[unreal wolf]

20 seconds is the lowest I could see being reasonable, a 10 minute fight, farm, w/e is around 67 GPM^10.

It is a lot of smashing the same button.

at 20 seconds to keep your buff you would only need 189.47 GPH that is way more realistic in that same fight it would be 31.57 GPM^10

[fallow escarp]

I don't know. Referencing how many times you have to maintain a buff is, nearly, irrelevant to me. I play Cleric too and to maintain soothing glow every 10 secs is similar so, sure, make it last 10 mins so I can set and forget (but why?). However, maintenance of cds in a tab target game is a key aspect of "skill display". What matters more than the raw number presses is the "feel". Does it require sweaty attention to maintain or is there some room for error/spam? Currently, I feel like 9,8s maybe pushing slightly too far into sweaty territory.

[median egret]

To be fair, tanks went from 1 button every 15 second to 2-3 buttons. Give the man a break