alpha-two-archetype-chat

[mint galleon]

And im not just sitting in one place

[median pewter]

And you're apparently immune to the CC that your ranged DPS would drop on a rogue if it popped up

[mint galleon]

Cleric does get a CC break here but im mainly talking about other pvp mmos like archeage

Honestly your better off playing bard than cleric in pvp atm

Unless they give rogue more than 4 ranged stuns to match bard

A party of all bards is unironically a better lineup

Hell just spamming your aoe shield skill with more than 1 bard is enough

[median pewter]

I honestly haven't played much other than a fighter here yet, just cruising around trying out other parts of the game until Summoner shows up.

[mint galleon]

Bard has 3 hard stuns and 1 ranged silence, aoe and single target heals, an insane aoe shield skill and bards can stack each others buffs

And move faster than most mounts

[median pewter]

I'm pretty sure Steven and/or other devs have also flat out said nothing is really balanced very well yet

[mint galleon]

They basically have every classes kit baked into them atm

Ya im aware

Bard is just the most egregious example atm

[median pewter]

Actually, only playing fighter isn't true, I started a ranger too and it feels like 10x better than my fighter, lol

[mint galleon]

It dominates every other class in 1v1s and has tons of party buffs and ranged stuns and cc

Bards just prevent you from playing the game lol

You cant move or use skills for 16+ seconds

[median pewter]

So there's no diminishing returns on CC yet I take it 😄

[mint galleon]

And unlike other classes their cc doesnt recquire setup

They can pop those start of the fight

No resource generation or anything needed

Fighter needs resources to break out of cc

[median pewter]

Makes sense in the context of PvE where they want bards to buff/heal/cc

[mint galleon]

Cleric recquires massive setup for its stun

[mint galleon]

Ya it just doesnt translate well atm to pvp at all

So node wars worry me a bit

😆

[median pewter]

I'm sure when they focus on PvP we'll see temp CC immunity and such make an appearance

[mint galleon]

Fighter has it

But it recquires resource generation

So its not usable at the start of a fight

[median pewter]

Sorry, I mean in the context of when you get CC'd you can't be CC'd again for a period of time

[mint galleon]

Ya CC is always meta defining

Also silence here shuts down all abilities regardless of class

Not just casters

So ranged silences are brutal

And last longer than stuns typically

[mint slate]

There's ment to be system that certain cc types are grouped together and if hit with to many of same cc type regularly you get like a 10s immunity to that cc type but I don't think it's funny in effect yet

[mint galleon]

Ya i understand cc being used to deal with healers

But cc is in general what makes or breaks balance

Whoever has the most sustainable CC wins

Just dont let your opponent play the game

I prefer wows system of energy users and mana for caster

When dealing with silences

Where silence is for casters

[mint slate]

Alot combat is still to be worked and balanced so I think it will get better once it's the focus but yeah cc is little to powerful at current state and some people are playing this game too serious enough to abuse that and then doing same is only viable response and we have stupid cc battles happening in testing state

[mint galleon]

Alot of these cc moves have instant cast times at range as well though

[mint slate]

Never got into wow, what's stam users equal to silence?

[mint galleon]

Multiple Instant cast ranged CC

[mint galleon]

There isnt one i believe

You just root or snare them

Melee has to close distance to deal damage

But they do better dps when they close the distance

[mint slate]

So casters should be CC'd but stam users basically get free immunity to some forms of CC.. can you see why intrepid may have mad cc universal

I agree it's out the norms but I can see their thinking

[mint galleon]

Nah because melee is usually gimped in pvp

If they cant close distance

They arent dealing any dps till they get close

[mint slate]

But your judging child state like its final form

[mint galleon]

No im fully aware of the current state and it being temporary

[mint slate]

And casters aren't going tank dps when your close

[mint galleon]

Im just pointing it out and being loud about it so it gets more recognition

[mint galleon]

If casters let them get close thats on them and their party

[mint slate]

I think PvP in general is going to flare more in P2 with node wars becoming a thing and that will bring some combat focus to light as a means of balancing wars

[mint galleon]

Atm melee dps cant close the distance in pvp in the alpha if ranged dont want to be touched

[mint slate]

Allied bard can help greatly

[mint galleon]

Yes but that implies they lack a bard

And if they lack a bard idk what they are even doing at that point

[lofty dew]

gromko i get it but godamn bro you really do just complain about bard balance on repeat

LOL

[mint galleon]

😆

Im playing one now and i feel like i need a bath everytime i log in

Half my guild is going bard for the 20th

[lofty dew]

the funny thing is people don't even know 50% of the bullshit

or the tech

cause you dont need it

lmao

[mint galleon]

Just because we noticed how goofy we can get bard if we stack it

[lofty dew]

there's some absolutely criminal illegal tech you can do

[mint galleon]

We had 6 bards buffing each other earlier

And it was criminal

Tossed in a tank for more party buffs

Ya the party buff stacking can get out of control

[lofty dew]

i would like to see them cook other classes before they hit bard too hard, but at the very least they need to revert the trip addition and nerf marionette

and rework menacing melody

[mint galleon]

Its moreso the buff stacking to me

And ya the cc is wild as well

Ontop of it being ranged cc

[lofty dew]

i dont think having a coefficient multiplier increase on an aura is good for the game long term

it literally doubles the damage of barrage

[mint galleon]

Basically when you stack bard though and use the shielding dance you turn your party into a raid boss

With multiple bards spamming it

[mint slate]

The defining factor for me is to see intrepids approach to balance as I know alot games will nerf the well performing class where I feel it would be better to bring the other classes up to the benchmark of bard rather then nerf bard down to the poorer preforming classes

[lofty dew]

shield dance doesn't stack, if you mean rotating shield dance, then sure that's very strong still, but it requires an annoying level of coordination

[mint galleon]

Ya bard definitely had the most love

[mint galleon]

I was able to get max shield bar on my character hmm

[lofty dew]

it doesnt stack

if it did for you, thats a bug

it 'used' to stack, but that was patched weeks ago

[mint galleon]

Thats good at least

[lofty dew]

regardless shield dance is still one of the best moves in the game

particularly in war, bc its uncapped

[mint galleon]

Ya ive been maining cleric lately

And bard just has more thought put into it

Even from level 1

[lofty dew]

currently yes

bc its the most fleshed out class

they just need to cook others more and tune some things

[mint galleon]

My biggest gripe is i cant split judgement into two skills

Like i can with bards

Because judgement just breaks when using defensive targeting

[mint slate]

Bard is the newest so that's why it being more refined.. but having played it and other classes would you say bard needs to be tuned down in any way or do you feel it's in a good place and other classes just need more polish

[mint galleon]

Id love to see other classes brought up to bards standard if animations and skills

But id agree with tree and that bard needs less cc

Bard just sort of does it all atm

And outshines the other classes

[mint slate]

I do t mind if someone has anything the bard should be toned down on and would encourage hearing those people opinions for the discussion but I do personally believe bard is about the right spot of balance and should be benchmark other classes need to be brought up to for final balance polish to then be done

[lofty dew]

dont bait gromko

hes been complaining about bard for the past 2 weeks on repeat

[mint galleon]

😆

[lofty dew]

i dont even think he plays the game

i think he just talks about bard

[mint galleon]

Cmon now whens the last time youve seen a class with 4 hard CCs

Nah i bitch bout clerics judgement too

[mint slate]

I would like see more utility and buff/debuff on bard over cc, move bulk cc to fighter and tank

[lofty dew]

control/mobility is what makes them fun, but its a big problem in the game because a lot of cc breaks dont work, and other classes need cooking

[mint galleon]

I think cleric and tank will get fleshed out sooner rather than later

Since they are the first getting their archetype done fir other classes

My fav healer has definitely been Wows paladin ngl

I firget which expansion made it a melee healer

I didnt play a ton of wow

Frontline melee healers are just fun

[mint slate]

I don't know names but I do like the dart to ally and heal and the touch heal clerics get, just a shame they so high up the tree that short range melee healer etc isn't as viable till so far into leveling

[mint galleon]

Its kind if meh to me

That exact skills in a number of mmos

And this is one of its weaker incarnations

Its your only cc break though

[mint slate]

Meant more that melee healer is locked up the tree more then those exact skills, any other melee hels would be good to but only early one I remember (haven't done alot cleric) is the wave

[mint galleon]

Nah the only melee centric skill is healing touch

A melee healer is typically one where your heals are based off your proximity to your target

So you pair up with a melee dps and you act as their pocket healer buffing them

Preferably a squishy high dps one

[mint slate]

Heli g touch is direct melee, but wave is only early skill I see fitting into a melee healers toolkit.. I'm sure balance will come later but unless intrepid want the stereotype builds being the way of play an don't allowing different styles (which different styles would en suggested by the subclass system) I feel melee healer and combat medic styles shouldn't be locked so high up the tree

[mint galleon]

Nah wave is so good in larger partys for dungeons

It heals yourself as well

[mint slate]

'a melee healer is typically one where your heals are based off proximity to your target' so be within waves range or no heals isn't proximity

[mint galleon]

Waves damage sort of sucks tho

[errant hedge]

Could be interisting if cleric melee did small aoe heals

[mint galleon]

Ya melee healer is just a fun archetype you rarely see

Usually you want your healers not on the frontline lol

[odd stump]

isn't there a chainheal? that also works better when a bunch of people stand on top of each other, sure it has a casting range but would totally be in that kit too

[errant hedge]

yeah and it gives credit to the heavy armor shield/mace cleric

[mint slate]

Would be cool, sorta a Brigette from overwatch kinda healer

[mint galleon]

Its range is pretty good hits 5 targets

Paladin basically

Cleric/tank might be fun

[errant hedge]

but if they drop youre screwed lol

[errant hedge]

yeah cleric lacks any real dps no matter the spec

[mint galleon]

Apostle its called

[errant hedge]

They have a melee range heal so it plays into that

[mint galleon]

They have one that isnt that great and has a long cd

25 second cooldown for some doodoo heal

I dont feel like giving the tank a prostrate exam every 25 seconds

[errant hedge]

lol yeah i dont use it either but if you had melee passive heals and you were already there why not give him a check up?

[mint galleon]

Bend over and cough

[errant hedge]

yeah i really dont think they were checking for anything in sports.. never in my adult life has a doctor felt my balls. Jail is all about the bend over and cough though

hate to be that guy just checking asses all day.. nope looks good... that one seems sus lets dig a little deeper

[pale goblet]

Jail has a lot more ass issues so i hear

[errant hedge]

jail no prison maybe

your not going to turn gay in 60 days lol

[mint galleon]

Military they check you

[scarlet jackal]

i feel ranger needs some love. i understand and agree with the crafted gear tune down but when i try to 1v1 every class and 80% of them can kill me in 1 or 2 abilities before i can do anything is weird

[burnt thicket]

Even now with the way gear has been tuned down?

Just curious

is all

[scarlet jackal]

yes. with my bow at 650 damage it felt a little competative. after the tune down bards, mages, fighters just destroy me and i never get their health below 75%

and my gear isnt bad

my bow now does 240 damage

correction 284

[burnt thicket]

Damn - Welp, hopefully next phase We Rangers got some more Defensives other than movement impairment to shine

[scarlet jackal]

when i fought the bard the silence meant i could press no buttons and when the silence wore off i was at 5% hp and they at 95%

i know archetype adjustments are coming in the wipe so after testing some stuff today im probably just gonna take a break till wipe

[burnt thicket]

Doesn't our cc break, break silence though? Did you have a point in it at the top?

[cinder tundra]

It was painful enough to have the hear the sad wolf noises, now I have to look at their bodies too. Man, hunters are going to be in 'Nam by the end, aren't they

[scarlet jackal]

what ability is our cc break? just to remind me i dont have the game open at the moment

[scarlet jackal]

and that was just bard. i then fought a mage and after 3 abilities they were at 75% hp and they cast one lightning strike and im dead.

ill just be waiting for balance changes on the 20th XD

[lofty dew]

it doesn't matter. you cant win the dps race

not atm

bard just stomps ranger

even if ranger silence was fixed, that would get cleansed. if they tuned some of the things modifying dark lullaby it would be playable maybe

i mean the bigger issue is that maddening dance purges call of the wild lol. but you dont even need to do that

[clear adder]

Literally all the did was tune damage and survivability down across the board. Everyone who killed you before is still going to kill you now. They just made it a lot harder for solo/small group PVE content

[ancient light]

Honestly thought they were going to nerf mobs a bit too when Steven said there was an issue with some NPC stat progressions

[frozen peak]

hearing they buffed elites too, carphin is rough now

[lofty dew]

Buffing elites simultaneously is a bit strange for sure

[zinc sierra]

mage got a bugged buff ? elemental amplification ? give 5% cast speed per stack i got 5 stack rn don't know where that come from

[crystal wolf]

Is cleric getting dps abilities as part of the rebalancing ._. just asking mannnnn all I want is a single holy hammer slam or SOMETHING man

[unreal garnet]

Tank is completely useless right now I cant even handle the no star goblins 5 levels lower than me above Ursine Caves. I went from hitting 600 and the occasional 1000 crit with abilities to hitting like 100-300 max

[fathom bridge]

those are pretty easy to kill

just gotta use a cc for their whirlwind

[warm hemlock]

Stat squish and the bug fix to the rarity increases is over tuned. So im not surprised Pico

[lime raptor]

it's from hitting a target with Lightning Strike

@mighty nimbus can clarify if it's intentional?

[waxen kindle]

Was theory crafting tank and saw some vids of 2H tank doing decent damage. Has anyone been running 2 tank groups with the off tank running 2H?

[ripe spade]

Any Suggestion for bard armor? Light, med, heavy?

[lime raptor]

tbh this makes Mage gameplay feel way better, would be great if intentional

[waxen kindle]

Not a bard but guessing most where medium

[turbid wedge]

Alot of your skills scale of magic power

[unreal garnet]

They WERE easy to kill

But I hit like a wet noodle now

[main bramble]

Yeah, I like the quicker lightning strike. Hope it stays.

[fathom bridge]

still are killed a couple this afternoon

[unreal garnet]

The whole point is I went from solo tanking two of these and like 4 of the trash mobs and being able to take em down faster than they would take me down and now a single creeper 5 levels lower than me requires me to play completely perfect to not die. I am only doing this to get a tiny bit of glint for a caravan run and we can't even do that now with our nerfed ass damage until I farm for like 2 weeks to make myself a weapon worth a damn. I'd need two legendaries now to get back to the damage my two blue weapons had(which was already pretty mid damage to begin with)

[wary shuttle]

For cleric - what archetype is your favorite to apply Bless Weapon to for the mana regen bonus for youself?

[fluid jolt]

Ranger

[placid parcel]

For bard, I can’t tell if spell longbow or shortbow is actually triggering deadly finishers faster. Longbow seems like almost every 3 shots the finisher triggers debuffs. Shortbow is triggering like every 7-9 shots some of the time

Does anyone know what’s best for ranged bard?

[lofty dew]

Longbows:

• better stat spread overall
• better jump kiting
• arguably more burst

Shortbows:

• faster finishers
• gets you to 5 debuffs for dark lullaby faster
• makes it easier to get snare, so you can do mock trip easier
• more damage over time, giga buffed by menacing melody

Longbow also has the issue of not being able to actually consume all shock stacks applied by menacing resonant weapon fast enough

Both weapons are good imo

[neon sand]

I do enjoy my 1H Spellsword but I'm feeling like 1H Scepter might have to be the way to go next go around for my Bard.

[lofty dew]

It's the only one that scales off cast speed for now so I think so

[neon sand]

Inversely I do wish the Physical spellbook did physical damage for my Rangers sake

Have him using a mace and a physical focus for giggles too

[lime raptor]

apparently it didn't

[main bramble]

that sucks 😫

[sweet parrot]

It needs that staff and rod sound effect from Final Fantasy IV or I'm demanding a refund.

[torn imp]

is blessed weapon based on your % or the targets %? if i'm sitting here afk with a spellbow between healing i feel like i do more dmg than a lot of other classes?

[neon sand]

Good question! And that's because Blessed Weapon rocks and Spellbows are based.

Clerics seem to be in a good spot from what I've heard.

Are you using a Shortbow or Longbow, out of curiosity?

[carmine stratus]

What's closest to a paladin?

But deals good dm

[maiden hearth]

Depends what you mean by Paladin lol

DPS 2h damage crusader type Paladin? Fighter probably

Tanky boy with a shield? Tank

Healer? Cleric

Tanky boy with a shield that can heal? I guess cleric is the closest but GL holding aggro.

[lusty jetty]

Hi,
I am new here and want to pick a Tank. Is the Fighter also capable of tanking for a group or is Tank the way to go?

[cerulean isle]

atm tank is the only true tank with threat abilities and taunts, fighters can be the pseudo tank in groups but they have to make sure their dps outdoes everyone else's to hold all the aggro so its tougher.

[lusty jetty]

Ok, that seems not legit for real and tough encounters.

[lusty jetty]

Thanks for the guidance

[carmine stratus]

Fighter ain't that close

[cerulean isle]

yea once secondary archtypes come out and you can go main archtype + tank secondary things might change but for now actual threat generating abilities and taunts is limited to tanks

[lusty jetty]

Hm... secondary archetypes sounds lovely. had a lot of fun with that system in other games.

So DPS-Tanking seems an option ☺️

[neon sand]

Incidentally, Paladin will be a Class once Augments come out. I believe it's Tank + Cleric. However, Cleric + Fighter will give you Templar if you wanted to go down that route, too. For now, playing a Cleric with Plate and a 2H Spellsword or 1H Scepter and Shield would fit for now until then.

[scarlet jackal]

Like I understand why we needed to nerf crafted gear but I had that bow for so long I feel like my character got reset from 24 to level 9 so I’m just gonna wait for reset and start over

[maiden hearth]

Closest we got currently I guess. None of them are idea though tbh

[sweet parrot]

Is that why some people were posting they were oneshotting people and mobs at their level?

[scarlet jackal]

I had an epic bow and trust me I wasn’t one shotting anything even at my level. It felt good but not overpowered but I know a few archetypes that were overtuned with overtuned legendaries in multiple slots were soloing raid bosses

We are In an unbalanced state and it’s just small fixes till we are in a good spot. It just sucks that some of the undertuned classes are getting hit harder with the current patch. But we get wiped in 2 weeks so meh whatever

[strong pasture]

The difference between the damage output of Epic and Legendary was immense

[scarlet jackal]

I had an epic
Bow around 640 in damage. My physical power was near 500 my dex near 200. After patch bow below 280, physical power cut In half dex 98. It hurt lol. I know it’s needed for overall game health down the road but ouch did it hurt

[strong pasture]

https://i.gyazo.com/239c6577726933232da5e0ec2303b04d.png

Left is epic's range in % over common range, right is Legendary

Each step up wasn't just a little bit, it was a lot

[supple herald]

Can someone tell me if this is intended or sort of a bug. As a cleric when dropping Divine Flare, when you click to drop it it will change my target to whoever I just clicked on when activating the ability and then I need to swap back to my target to heal. Is there like a sticky target thing in this or some way I can stay let’s say targeting my tank and drop the ability but still stay on healing my tank.

[cerulean isle]

There was a bug tripling rarity scaling so that got patched and then they nerfed the numbers also so it was a double hit. The numbers never should have been that high originally and the nerf was less than people think once you factor in the rarity scaling bug

[sinful bluff]

my long bow was like 950 prep atch now it 340 or something

[vernal jay]

2h is the way I go, that and a short bow

[scarlet jackal]

I tried a short bow at level 20. It made me want to delete the character before I hit 21

[vernal jay]

I've had one since lvl 3 so have gotten used to it, I would probably feel the same if I switched that late. I'm thinking I may make a cleric my solo toon come live. I haven't seen another class than AoE grind like a Cleric. Can't wait to see the full kit

[torn imp]

there is a soft lock in the combat settings, can't remember exactly what its called atm. Just be careful because it makes things like judgement very difficult to choose whether youre healing or damaging with. i've found using hover casting (mouseover) for targeting party/tank the best with main target being the mob

[supple herald]

I’ll test it out thank you for the help!

[placid parcel]

Hey has anyone figured out a really solid control scheme for their archetype yet? I'm not a huge fan of the current control layout. I've been workshopping a few setups for bard at the moment. Nothing I'm quite happy with yet

[torn imp]

Mmo mouse will change your life

[dense mica]

Question for Bard dose song mastery: Dissonance is bugged? I have use lament with cherful melody and don’t get discordant note.

[lofty dew]

Control scheme? Like keybinds?

I rebound basically everything

To similar binds I've used for like 15 years lol

[vocal sigil]

When game goes live again, look at your combat gameplay settings. There's an option for Smart targetting. Play around with it a bit and see if on option is better for you. Mine is setup where Divine Flare drops wherever my mouse cursor is located. You might like that one or one of the other options.

Alternatively, if you hold your keybind for Divine Flare you can see the circle and just move your cursor where you want it to drop and release the keybind. Definitely a good option as well depending on your combat situation.

[crystal wolf]

Need a holy hammer slam or throwable on cleric alright that’s all for now

[torn imp]

I was thinking a dot would be nice. Pvp feels like a war of attrition between their hp and your mp so need something more to tick down their hp

[crystal wolf]

All I want for Christmas and next Christmas and my birthday is Templar to be fun and snappy and flavorful wow how exciting

[lofty dew]

would love to see cleric get some more unique utility

im sure they will flesh them out more

[crystal wolf]

Surely….

[supple herald]

Thanks I’ll try it out

[night prairie]

@supple herald yes I played my cleric the last couple days and used the settings 'target of target' or something like that...I just targeted the player I wanted to heal , and I could use my damage skill on any target that player targeted. Worked perfectly (level 7 cleric)

[proud delta]

are fighters or mages played more? I can't decide between the two for pvp and eventually naval

[candid briar]

Depends a lot on your server and your surroundings. There is no official data (yet) and for my server/surroundings mages are heavily in favor as a dps class.

[neon sand]

Unsure, but based teh Rei appreciator.

[frozen peak]

there is a bit of fighter hate due to it being a melee dps class (wrt PVE/levelling). fighters will benefit more from in-game knowledge in order to avoid dying constantly and/or taking damage and requiring a lot more cleric work to keep them up. mages are back line dps and generally aren't eating aoe / pyro blasts

But fighter is nasty in pvp

[sweet parrot]

I love my mage and will probably be primary that but the bard was really fun and could heal itself and go fast

I just noticed I opened this and thought it was a current conversation but see timestamp now from an hour ago

[torn imp]

what are the thoughts on wand/spellbow/spellbook for mage/bard/clerics?

[sweet parrot]

Love spellbook with its status effect and mana regen/barrier extra crit etc - hated spellbow sound, wand was the same as book but I think didn't do aoe but it hit softer than my book so never really used it often

I used the book to apply chilled so I could hit my shatter with the lightning more quickly

[jaunty bone]

I love fighter

[mint slate]

I did some solo play for sake of recordings and found that the books aoe caused issue at time overpulling mobs to what could easily be handled so now wand and focus on my lowbie solo character for better aggro control but agree in general use case and when with friends (kinda intention of the game) that the book won out over all and what my main mage and cleric use for reasons you have stated.. I do use spell shortbow on my bard but that's more for the greatsword bow aestic more then effeciency

[gentle edge]

i played a bit with spell-shortbow and book with my cleric. i loved shortbow with bard for support reasons snaring in pvp/pve etc. but i did some calclations and stoped time how long it takes to kill mobs with auto attack only

shortbow won with 2 sec better time in average

but i think this would be different for other classes, due to blessed weapon being OPaf

after that a tested wand and liked it as well

so my prefs: mage/wand (faster attackspeed the book, applying volatide) bard/shortbow (bard feels quick and versatile, spellbow fits in the most) cleric/shortbow/longbow (depends on the field of work grp healer longbow/book solo/shortbow+spellgreatsword)

[karmic pumice]

.

[maiden hearth]

.

[upper cipher]

Cant wait for Staffs to be implemented.

[maiden hearth]

Staves, battlestaves, can’t wait

[cinder tundra]

Spears are at some point next phase, so excited

[neon sand]

.

[placid parcel]

Yeah Keybinds. Ooo I would love to hear what you use. I'm trying to bind everything to keys near wasd that I can modify with shift and ctrl. Due to ctrl needed for dodge rolling plus other action skills it doesn't work as well

[lofty dew]

thats such a personal preference thing haha

as long as flourish dance resets feel comfortable its prolly fine
and just make sure that silence/shield dance/marionette/nimble dance/mesmerizing dance/quick wit are all easy to hit

[placid parcel]

Yeah I hear that. The problem is this game is so action oriented that everything needs to be easy to access. If you do the double melody, you need something mindless to press every 20 secs

[cinder tundra]

Personally, for bard, I made bar 3 into a 3x4 rectangle, then have all melodys/sagas there for convenience if I'm quick swapping. I found you don't need the third bar for anything important, so that seemed like best use. I do like how customizable the bars are.

[serene shale]

I love Bard, but melodies are currently tied too much to resonant weapon procs which dissuades weaving. Has there been any discussion on fine tuning the base melodies to take some away from the proc, or allowing the proc to hit for BOTH of the active melodies?

[amber vortex]

During the past weekend, did the single target and AOE versions of some songs suddenly become different hotkeys?

[cinder tundra]

I don't think so? I mean, you can drag them around wherever, honestly I dont leave both AOE and single on my hotbar at the same time.

[frozen forge]

How are people feeling about Tank

[tulip grotto]

I hit like a wet noodle and die like a bitch........ Pretty in line with most MMO tanks

Could use a bit of love for sure but I think all classes could use some tweaks at this point.

[frozen forge]

NGL feel like I sustain pretty well as long as I have a good healer (because we don't have self heals)

Damage I could care less about tbh

I wish there were more barrier building options in the lower levels and I feel like courage doesn't build consistently enough (id prefer a small amount on each combo hit personally)

[tulip grotto]

So clerics are in a good spot is what your saying

[frozen forge]

I feel like clerics are in a really good spot yes

[elder talon]

I think Tank is far and away the weakest class in the game and needs a full pass

[frozen peak]

But also tanks are incredible and very, very valuable in pvp pve lol

[elder talon]

Tank has about 7-8 great skills, 5 or so okay ones, and then a ton of pointless ones

The whole Courage mechanic feels awful with how bad Vengeance is

[frozen forge]

I don't think the tank is terrible but definitely was one of the first designed classes and has pitfalls because of that

[tulip grotto]

Ya I wouldn't go so far as to say it's terrible or anything especially since we only have up to 25 to judge but it does not seem quite as strong as a few other classes for sure..... Especially if you find yourself solo grinding, that is just pure pain.

[frozen peak]

I don't think judging the class on solo grinding capabilities is helpful in a game like this

[frozen forge]

Better sustain or shield gen would help with solo grinding (I would prefer shield gen personally)

[elder talon]

Self-shielding would be nice. It’s also not great how weak in general shields and active blocking are.

A big chunk of tanks are just using a Greatsword and that strikes me as a major problem

[frozen peak]

How does active block scaling feel at 20+? At lower levels I noticed a 50% reduction in dmg

[frozen forge]

Eh I don't think so, as this game isn't designed for players to use specific weapons and it isn't like shields have their own progression tree (though I would love if they did)

[elder talon]

It speaks to how bad shields are that the class designed to use them (with an ability that requires a shield) usually does not/should not use them

[frozen forge]

But shelf shielding (I'm specifically talking about temp hp like abilities) would be better if vengeance wasn't a less than 1% HP per hit imo

[frozen forge]

What ability requires them?

[elder talon]

Yeah, Vengeance is just egregiously awful

[elder talon]

Does the shield block ability not require a shield? I’ll be honest I’d just assumed it did

[frozen forge]

Nope it doesn't, I was shieldless from 5-10 (because I got a good GS drop) and used Reflect religiously. shield bash/slam should be the same way

Honestly they should be named something else

[elder talon]

That strikes me as an oversight. I expect Shield Assault/Reflect should require a shield.

[frozen forge]

Eh the tank has magic it makes sense they can make a magic shield for their abilities

[lofty dew]

well, the issue is bard is currently very overtuned, and that would make bard way more overtuned

[lofty dew]

a big QOL change would be making it update it naturally lol.

[balmy barn]

A healer question: I started cleric on Nov 8th. Was teamed uo for xp grinding and noticed that I did not get xp unless I attacked the npc's. So buffing/healing your team does not give xp? You have to fight? I went solo after the first weekend. Have been doing the Pillar event healing, and dont see any other xp than the event reward?

[lofty dew]

in parties you should get xp. in open events with no party its based on tagging mobs

[frozen forge]

You should get XP depending on you proximity to the party. And it is a trek before you don't get any

[lofty dew]

you can lose the tag if you dont do enough damage though. they just havent really fleshed the system out yet and it seems like they are airing on the side of 'not allowing powerleveling'

[frozen forge]

I recommend trying party up if possible

[balmy barn]

I really liked the cleric, but if healing doesnt give xp, it is very tiresome. I'll try to team up again to see how it goes

[frozen forge]

I get ya, if you can find a tank and DPS to party up with you shouldn't have any issues. If you need any grinding advice lmk

[balmy barn]

Another cleric said that wand and fire is the "way to go" for solo levling, do you agree? I just swapped my shortbow to wand and specced fire.

[frozen forge]

I can't really speak on solo unfortunately, but the extra dot would makes sense. @sullen meadow uses bow because they don't arch and she might have a better answer for you

[frozen peak]

just depends on what you can get. shortbow was awesome for solo cleric due to the mana regen.

[frozen forge]

I'm just a big phat tank that takes a beating

[sullen meadow]

What do I know

[frozen forge]

I'm guessing with the bless weapon

[frozen peak]

and finishers

[balmy barn]

If magic wand and speccing fire is a better option for solo levling?

[sullen meadow]

All I know is bow. I mean I like the bow but I've only tried spell book and bow.

[frozen peak]

bow/spellbooks were generally much easier to get IME as cleric

[sullen meadow]

Every game I choose bow so I'm biased

[balmy barn]

Jeah, I used shortbow and it was fun, but some healer said he melted even npc's 2 levles higher than him with magic wand and fire

[frozen peak]

lol, clerics melt most mobs 2 levels higher

well, is this befor or after the stat crunch?

[balmy barn]

Before 🙂

[sullen meadow]

I don't melt mobs. But I'm more healy than attacky

[frozen peak]

Yeah, clerics were super OP solo'ers before the rarity adjustment

regardless of wand vs bow vs whatever

[frozen forge]

It is because you have common weapons

[lofty dew]

the thing is, if you dont win the tag war with dps then you wont get xp either. so it really is just about either soloing or grouping in an actual 'party'.

[serene shale]

Well part of the tuning is the base rate of the melodies and resonant procs. You don’t just go “here are both procs have fun”. IMO the procs are too powerful anyway. Also they do different things and require actively casting to keep both up rather than click one button and forget about it

[maiden hearth]

Bards are fine the way we are, don’t talk about it.

We don’t need nerfs, noooo, we’re weak actually we should get buffs

[torn imp]

there is zero xp difference if you're in a party. if you're healing people outside of your party those are enemy combatants and you're a traitor

[tropic fox]

Always top off the noobs you pass by

[cinder tundra]

As one should, the true healer way

Honestly, just give glee to everyone, 30 seconds of passive heal is good regardless of what you are doing.

[clear lynx]

I always give people Rations, Food Buff and Scroll Buff (Depending on class), and potions 🙏

[maiden hearth]

I like to watch them die and take their glint. It’s my Villain arc.

[balmy barn]

I do that too! I always jump off my horse and heal a player if I see their healthbar is low

[ripe spade]

how to break the blocking of a tanks as a bard? 😄

[pseudo whale]

cc them. or tell them to cut that out lol

[maiden hearth]

Insult them, when they inevitably drop shield to type back, kill them.

[tropic fox]

[pseudo whale]

i think bards just hit tank with one of these and they drop guard

[frozen forge]

If you aren't healing or leashing the agro to help randoms you aren't the true best cleric or tank

[upper cipher]

I randomly healed a mage the other day that had a 2 star at half health.. I pop off a few heals, mob turns to me and fireballs (instantly dead). The rest of the mages party shows up 3 seconds later... Another party member looks at my ashes, runs over and loots them. 'No good deed goes unpunished. I was out about harvesting metal for 3hrs. Ohh and no res from their cleric...

[tulip grotto]

Welcome to AOC!

[upper cipher]

Yup

[tulip grotto]

You met the kindest group on the server 🤣

[upper cipher]

Na, that's the group that was going around killing all the AFK/Crafting people in the node towns. ugh.

Happens after the 20th though, lists will be made.. haha

[frozen forge]

Just need the bounty hunting core

[pseudo whale]

the start of your villian arc

[desert prairie]

Hey guys, any new archetypes for phase 2?

[tropic fox]

rouge eventually. sometime in Jan perhaps. unlikely over the holiday/launch

[agile saddle]

Rogue will probably be in PTR testing behind NDA when P2 launches

[tulip grotto]

I would assume it hits PTR or is announced for PTR during this month's live stream

[pure idol]

Rogue and new weapons would be fun to test.

[tulip grotto]

Ya I'm hoping at least one of the 2h is geared towards tanks a little bit

Axes ideally

[pure idol]

Thatd be cool. 2hand mace as the alternative if not.

[pseudo whale]

hammers will be a thing. that or 2h maces .wouldn't feel right if not tanky lol. its just an iconic part of many stocky tanky bruiser to wield a giant blunt weapon just pushing absolutely tanking everything and putting down punishmen

[cinder tundra]

Very Dark Souls esque, big giant bonk stick

[pure idol]

Biggest bonk stick that any paladin would be proud to wield.

[upper cipher]

Rogue using a 2 handed hammer... Muhaha :)

[frozen forge]

Based

[tulip grotto]

Stealth smash

[frozen forge]

Brawler rogues have always been a favorite of mine

[upper cipher]

The double daggers in the video form a while ago, they were super fast. But I might like double mace (or a 2hr) rogue. hah

[tulip grotto]

Oh ya last char I had on wow before quitting was the brawler rogue..... May have helped lead to me quitting since it's one of the worst classes but that's ok I had fun

[vast crescent]

I'm hoping to have a 2h Dodge tank 👀

Love Hammer rogue too! hah

[tame sphinx]

Ranger- Is the silence from thundering shot turned off or just bugged....Im thinking turned off and the nerf to Concussive shot was the first step to getting it turned on

[idle wharf]

Double daggers would be fun. Definitely enjoyed it in Conan.

[lofty dew]

It has never worked. At first I thought it was cause dazed was bugged and actually gave alacrity.
But dazed was fixed last weekend and ranger silence still didn't work.

[maiden hearth]

It’s an assassination if no one is alive to report it.

[vernal jay]

Really want to try a staff Rogue, Monkish type build

[tropic fox]

Staves will be ranged magic tho

[upper cipher]

I believe there will be "mage" staffs and "melee" staffs

[tropic fox]

Melee book when

[warm hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/slap-laduykhang-harry-potter-gif-18001222

[pseudo whale]

based on prior info there will be magic and melee staves, will have to see if/how that gets implemented

[umbral moss]

Ranged staff rogue is my preference, hopefully class will support that. Sneaky stealthy magey boy

[tropic fox]

I hope we get the same for spear and polearm. I mean, we have a physical scaling spellbook so…

[cinder tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/black-myth-wukong-gif-3614959369301148590

[winged widget]

[grand ermine]

do we know when the other 2 classes are going to be coming out during alpha 2?

[rough comet]

You might find this link helpful 😉

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alpha-2#Alpha-2_phase_2

[grand ermine]

thank you

[meager veldt]

sadly rogue will not come at the 20th

[azure fern]

I think there should be hell levels in AOC like everquest. Even though it was a mistake made by the devs, it really made the game. Every 9 levels, 9, 19, 29, 39.. . would take four maybe five times the experience to level. So just as you're about to move in to the next tier of gear and mobs, you're stopped dead in your tracks with several weeks to months before you get to that tier. It was a massive accomplishment. Those first hardcore players that made it to 50 were seen as gods to endure the grind. It was so memorable.

[meager veldt]

i sure hope not 😄

unless the first 9 and so on are easier

[azure fern]

It was an akward way to force us in to groups, the hells levels. You lost so much exp on death, you didn't want to chance soloying anything unless you were shaman, druid, or bard, and those were the ones with adequate gear. So every night we'd sit on the wall outside of karnors castle, shooting the breeze in group chat. The next night you'd be with another set of folks. It was some great bonding.

[meager veldt]

i loved the forced grouping, made it feel like an actual mmo

[azure fern]

and the raids were huge. and the cheal rotation from the clerics were coordinated through shouts/ooc.

The first time I was in on the Avatar of War kill was glorious.

[meager veldt]

ooc ?

[azure fern]

with was a chat channel for Out Of Character.

it was like AOC's global channel.

[meager veldt]

normaly ppl just use discord

[azure fern]

and the clearics had a spell called complete heal (cheal). The strategy was to coordinate with all the clerics in the raid to stagger their cheals on the main tank. When it worked it was magnificent. The tank would drop below 20% and here comes the cheal popping him back to 100%.

[pure quail]

What are everyones thoughts on Cleric Vs Bard for group and solo play? I'm really struggling to choose which one to play 😆

[frozen forge]

Depends on what you wanted to focus on. More healing I would go cleric, more buffing focus to bard.

[cinder scaffold]

fighter needs to be more tanky in order to have fun pvp

[naive hearth]

play tank

[cinder scaffold]

maybe

[upper cipher]

On a mage, on the stress server yesterday I did pvp a tank. I felt abused the way I kept getting knocked to the ground for seconds at a time. haha. It was a good match. But I got bugged and couldn't move... match over. But it was fun.

[tulip grotto]

If it makes you feel any better tank is terrible in PvE

[jaunty bone]

? Fighter is plenty of fun

Jump in, blow cd twice (berserk) and jump out. Don't just sit in them.

[echo thunder]

which archetype would you say would be best for a evasion build

[upper cipher]

Id imagine Rogue? Give it a few weeks after the 20th though

[dark robin]

Start with Ranger for dexterity focused build/gear, then swap to Rogue when it’s released a month or so into Phase 2, and you’ll have all the dexterity gear ready

[cinder tundra]

Bard has the most movespeed, if that's the evasion you're looking for.

[tawny rock]

I'm excited for Summoner. The archetypes of Summoner/X or X/Summoner is going to be very, very interesting.

[floral wolf]

wild if true, that should be Ranger's thing
you ever try to play an instrument while running? i have, and it sucks

[maiden hearth]

I wonder if they’ll remove Ranger’s camouflage when Rogue releases. It’s kinda counter intuitive to have TWO stealth classes?

[floral wolf]

Ranger's Camo isn't stealth per se

Rangers aren't meant to be stealthy like Rogues are. the quintessential idea of a Ranger class is that you sneak into a ranged position, fire off shots that give you away, and run for the hills

they're about traversing the land without drawing much attention, so that when you choose to reveal yourself to your prey, they are either dead in a few seconds, or you are gone before they can get to where you were

Rogues, on the other hand, are about being right next to you and you never noticing in the first place

[maiden hearth]

Hmm, so you think Camo and Stealth will function differently from each other?

[floral wolf]

they come up, slit your throat, and slink away without you or your buddies near you noticing

it's the difference between a ranged combat -focused class and a melee-focused one

or at least it should be

[maiden hearth]

I want to play a rogue too, but I want rogue stealth to be similar to WOW rogue stealth, I felt ranger camo was very underwhelming. I have high hopes for rogue when it releases

There’s also the Archeage version of stealth, where no matter how close you get to someone, they won’t see you, but you have to refresh the buff every 45 seconds and it makes a poof noise.

[floral wolf]

but when your "prey" can walk towards you and cover the distance in 3 seconds flat, like they can right now
Ranged gameplay just isn't viable

nor is it viable when you are able to position up on a cliffside and fire down shots at hapless prey
only for the enemy to suddenly teleport directly next to you as punishment for daring to use a bow like it's intended to

[maiden hearth]

I do feel rangers are a bit weak currently

mages: Teleports behind you nothing personal kid.

[floral wolf]

the problem at its core
is that Rangers as a concept are meant to not engage with their enemy
they're meant to never let the enemy have a chance to swing at them, either through outpacing their efforts to chase them or firing from a position they simply can't reach

in that sense, they are borderline just the Cheese Class

but that's not what makes them fun

and playing them as a proper Ranger shouldn't mean cheesing the game

[maiden hearth]

I feel like that’s bards right now

Just run run run run, pew pew, CC , run run run, pew pew.

[floral wolf]

yeah from what i've heard of the Bard class they are seriously just not good

not at all the thing you think of when you picture a bard class

when i think "Bard" i think support, buffs, light cc

[maiden hearth]

I mean, the songs are on point, but I’ve not played much DND so my idea of “bard” may be a bit lacking

[floral wolf]

not heavy cc, insane dps, high movement

[torn imp]

Just play cleric and watch everything slowly burn while you out sustain them over 10 minutes

[maiden hearth]

Facts. Clerics has such insane healing.

[floral wolf]

but what i meant by Rangers at their core always threatening being the Cheese Class, is that what makes them fun, what they embody:
firing from out-of-reach spots you tactically picked out (or from behind allies), running away from CQC enemies because you're squishy and can't survive a blade to the face, etc.
is very nearly identical to what people do to Cheese games:
firing from spots that enemy AI can't path to, running around as enemies chase you in circles not attacking while you attack back, etc.

[maiden hearth]

Rangers safe spotting in OSRS

[floral wolf]

the way that the Cheese has been addressed in AoC has directly impacted the Ranger class, i feel.
- only having a 35m max range on your attacks, meaning that not only are you not safely (and thematically) assisting in a fight from behind your allies' ranks when fighting in a raid, but also that enemies can go from the edge of your range to in-melee and already-attacking in the time it takes to cast a single Snipe after hitting them once with your basic attack.
- enemies teleporting to you when you're perched on a pillar or up a cliffside, even if they wouldn't have room to stand, and attacking you, despite one of your abilities literally being flip that lets you scale vertical obstacles in a direction of your choice.
- enemies chasing you for so long off a single attack, making the logical "fire and reposition, abandon if outmatched" of sniper-like combat turn into "fire and oh god my dps isn't enough i now have to sprint away and hope my stamina lasts long enough"

[maiden hearth]

Rangers probably need more reliable slows (not RNG finisher) and snares than just the big one with high CC. OR more mobility, at least more than Bard.

[floral wolf]

it's obvious that they wanted to give Rangers more flavor at range, such as by providing extra effects on your moves if you fire them from far enough away
but when you get exactly 1 attack at that range, and the rest will be fired at the enemy 1 meter away because you can't outrun them
that simply isn't enough

[floral wolf]

they shouldn't have basically any movement speed penalty when attacking, since that's just undermining the whole idea of staying just out of range of enemies while constantly attacking

sure put some movement penalties on their abilities, but not their basic attack at least

you move faster whilst mid-Barrage without the skill that increase movement during it than you do while normal combo-attacking

that's just not right

they either need more mobility or more slows, more basic range or more abilities with larger ranges (not a mere 5m extra range for such a big windup like Snipe, yes i know it's double the damage of a Headshot)
but those don't fix its core problems, such as enemies teleporting when the ranger is purposely out of reach and using their bow properly

but i also know that it's easier to spout ideas than implement them, and they already did the whole alpha 1 to alpha 2 major combat rework, which was already a massive player-focused move, so i can neither ask nor just expect them to fix Ranger's core issues through big fixes

i'm going to stick around this game for the long run regardless, so i'd just be content with a small rework, at least.
i've said more than my 2 cents on Ranger (and still have more in my wallet) so i'll leave it at that for now

[echo thunder]

FRR I am so torn between doing bladecaller (fighter/summoner) or brood warden (summoner/tank)

I have an image in my head of how the bladecaller will be and I know it probably wont be like that but I can dream

like I am kinda imagining something like this

[tawny rock]

I'm gonna be THIRSTING for which is better; Ranger/Summoner - Falconer, or Summoner/Ranger - Beastmaster.

[echo thunder]

[tawny rock]

FFXIV Sage but KNIVES

[echo thunder]

I haven't played FFxiv but sure!!

[tawny rock]

As soon as the FFXIV Sage was announced there was quickly memes of instead of those floaty spike things, they were floating guns lmao.
"I'm here to heal my friends and hurt my enemies. AND I'M ALL OUT OF FRIENDS TO HEAL."

[echo thunder]

lmao

[tidal nymph]

Fighter armor - medium or heavy, and why?

[tropic fox]

mix and match to your specific needs.

[marsh vale]

Cleric probably needs to be balanced a bit more to use more mana but idk. Whole party was oom and I'm still sipping on divine essence or whatever it's called

[olive drum]

Rangers consume mana faster than any other class. It seems their base damage is too low so to COMPENSATE, use their mana intensive abilities as a crutch. This results in the ranger always running out of mana and bards crying they cannot keep up

[maiden hearth]

Light Armor, because you need wisdom and intelligent to keep sanity during berserk spin moments

[tulip grotto]

No armor because defence is for the weak. Attach 2h sword in all slots

[tulip grotto]

This person gets it

[marsh vale]

if end game fighter armor doesnt look like this i'm canceling my preorder

[maiden hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/gilgamesh-kunai-gate-of-babylon-fate-stay-night-gif-14427496

[agile saddle]

Just get cleric to put bless weapon on ranger

Neither will ever run out of mana again

[balmy barn]

Shhh! Don't tell... Bless Weapon is sooo good

[sullen verge]

Tooltips are all sorts of inacurrate. Makes it hard to test/compare.

Example: Ranger Barrage
Description says "Fires a continual barrage of arrows at your target for 1.5 seconds, dealing (15%🢆) Physical damage per arrow."
Tooltip says Cast: .5 Seconds

Doesn't mention how many shots are taken, making it impossible to compare to other abilities.

Through testing, it is 15 shots. That .5 second cast is not reduced by Attack Speed. The 1.5 seconds in the description is reduced by cast speed, but the tooltip does not update to reflect the actual duration.

[agile saddle]

Because whoever writes the tooltips likes being as vague as possible

Look at bard, the 3 blue saga says give buffs to allies
Doesn’t say what buffs, doesn’t say how long, doesn’t say it throws them around you randomly and you need to walk over the different coloured circles

[sullen verge]

In that same regard, bard is worse. Many Bard abilities are described as 'Once per second', when actually it is a certain number of pulses over a duration modified by cast speed.

But it makes it hard to talk about balancing abilities/archtypes, when the descriptions are inaccurate. Can't make a good bug report about an ability, other than the observed effect doesn't match the tooltip/description.

Combo Attack, the tooltip seems fairly good. Though it doesn't correctly indicate that Spellbow/Spellsword scales with Mag power and Ernergy Wand/Book scales with Phys power.

[cinder tundra]

My wildest dreams for wild blade. Literally just summoning swords out the wazoo. That, or just straight summoning a possessed armor knight. Now all I can think of is summoning Mordekaiser

[cinder tundra]

Possible misinformation, but doesn't the type of bow affect Barrage? I could be crazy.

[sullen verge]

On rangers/balance I have some interesting concerns there.
I was trying to see what ranged weapon had the best DPS Combo Attack.
It seems to be the shortbow.

I got to comparing the DPS of Barrage to the DPS of the shortbow (with the extended finisher unlocked)

I'd claim the DPS of a Shortbow Combo attack is better than the DPS of barrage.

[sullen verge]

I did not check, but I don't think it mechanically changes the barrage. Longbow has more power than shortbow, but less attack speed. So it would affect it that way.

[cinder tundra]

I also recommend testing the dps of each with lightning shot, shocked status is great for both.

[sullen verge]

Not sure I'm following the reasoning for what you mean.

[cinder tundra]

Lightning shot puts stacks of Shocked onto target that procs on each hit. Does the hit count for shortbow basics keep up with the barrage, and does the shocked number impact it enough to where using it is viable verse the basic attacks.

[sullen verge]

Shortbow has only a little fewer hits per second than barrage. (Not counting Arrowstorm)

[candid briar]

Well but the shock damage from the debuffing stacks are completely useless for a ranger since they only scale with magical power

[sullen verge]

Some shortbow 'attacks' are multi-projectile

[candid briar]

and longbow enables jump-kiting, which is handy for pvp (against melees) and also for pve-solo content. PvE Group content i also prefer the shortbow tho

[serene robin]

Going off the current tree, here are my suggestions for Fighter.

Fighter is meant to be a berserker type class, so it feels relatively badly when you have to waste a GCD on a buffing/debuffing/cc spell. Because we are already at a disadvantage, let us weave things in where appropriate.

Crippling Blow - Make this off GCD, can be used while any other spell is being cast (Like Blood Fusion).
Battle Cry - Make this instant, off GBD, can be used while casting/channeling another skill. No reason to waste a GCD here.

Improved Stancing

Form of Fluidity - Grant up to 20% evasion at full momentum. Useful for fights against melee.
Form of Celerity - Grant up to 25% spell damage mitigation at full momentum. Useful for fights against casters.
Choosing one of these stances means you are also giving up on Damage throughput in the process.

This will cause the stance dance talents to actually be useful/used, while not really being OP since you'd have to maintain your momentum at MAX in order to get these benefits, generally speaking your Berserk is draining that pretty quickly.

Knock Out - Make it so that direct physical / spell damage breaks this effect. Bleeds and other DOTs should not break it. Fighters always have a bleed on a target.

**Add secondary talent for 'Enveloping Cataclysm' ** - Instead of hitting in front of the caster, Cataclysm will now radiate outward from the caster into all targets within 10m (aoe), pulsing 3 times for 75% damage each time (1s each pulse - pulse begins 1s after using ability. No cast time required.
This will now be off GCD and allow the caster to be used while casting/channeling another spell/skill. This is less damage than the actual cast time spell would inflict, but a nice way to generate AOE damage / potential CC to a group of people.

Thoughts on the above.

These changes would allow the Fighter to possibly engage in Raid vs Raid scenarios as they were intended to be the jump in, wreak havoc, jump out fighter.

Depending on the opposing raid comp, the fighter would use a form that best mitigates against their comp setup.

He would sit back and generate some momentum with offhand, pop the new talent "Enveloping Cataclysm", and charge, pop Blood Fusion start doing some AOE, Battle Cry to Weaken enemies.

With a well coordinated group, the effects of Catacylsm can be used to apply Shaken and Trip enemies caught within the blast, or deal bonus damage against an all in push with Mages freezing the group. Fighter could then attempt to jump out if they need to escape or continue pushing in.

Feel free to give feedback / suggestions. Welcome the discussion.

[outer sentinel]

having seen how powerfull a fighter can be from guildies i feel they are in a pretty solid place. how bad is the GCD on rotation and why even more mitigation? you arent tanks 😉. Tanks get mitigation but lack any form of dmg

[main garnet]

So you want a better gap closer plus more mitigation and damage?

[silver valve]

fighters in small scale are fine to good

They really just need something that makes them better in large scale but that would probably make them way too good small scale

rangers are really the class that needs buffs. Nerf Vines and give them a defensive

and probably better damage bases

[pseudo whale]

Although fighters have good aoe, they are meant to be like a scalpel. You get some good aoe cc,but outside of that you’re mostly doing burst on a single target.

[silver valve]

they dont feel like a scalpel they feel like a disruptor only

[pseudo whale]

Well meant, still needs some work, the skills are nice, but a lot of their ccs, to be effective basically needs another class to proc something first, cata needs mass stagger, battle cry also needs from another class too

[silver valve]

Melee will never be good in large scale fights if rendering is always reduced in them

[waxen kindle]

Can they jump into a AoE fiestas in large scale PvP, no and they never will. Fighters in large PvP battles will always have to be fairly careful

[strong pasture]

Unless one of their higher level skills is a short duration, moderate cooldown Temp HP buff or damage immunity so they don't explode on impact

Something like 2-3 seconds of immunity so that when you leap in you aren't killed. Though personally I'd just do a temp hp amount

maybe an augment to the leap skill itself

[waxen kindle]

Let me rephrase, they cannot do it alone. But tanks have the ability to protect them, intercept, ect. Clerics can deviant them. Just need to coordinate and hopefully create enough chaos to break the line

[serene robin]

Right that was my intention. In small scale combat these buffs aren't really that crazy and they would have to setup with ranged attacks to build momentum for the actual stances to do anything.

And you lose damage by switching to those stances, and you have to actual have momentum which you will be expending alot in pvp to make urself cc immune, and your opponent can just blink or run away in those windows while you drain your momentum chasing them down.

In reality this is only a buff towards large raid combat and a small buff towards 1v1.

[serene robin]

Fighters have absolutely no utility in a raid vs raid fight. You just charge in and get deleted. Every other class has some utility in a raid vs raid scenario.

Your just sitting there attacking from ranged until someone is foolish enough to get close.

That's not fun at all.
All my suggestion does is give them some form of mitigation assuming they have max momentum, which when charging in, you start expending all that momentum so you don't get ccd and die instantly.

Even with my proposed changes, it will be tough to charge in. Tank still has waaay more mitigation than a fighter would. We have nothing and our leech does nothing in a raid vs raid environment. Because we have everything in gcd or have to charge up an attack ans then your vulnerable to just being deleted.

[sick marsh]

yeah theyre never going to add that lol, would be nice but youre dreaming, besides the speed boost stance at high momentum is very similar for the flanking playstyle, speed is far more valuable than mit if youre getting blobbed
also maybe running at 10+ people should have a consequence

[crystal brook]

Maybe we just drop PvP all together -- then we can all just along.... without all this whining.....

[serene robin]

Let's just exclude a class from being able to participate in raid vs raid pvp.

Very fun game mechanics.
Nobody plays a different stance unless your in 1v1 and want to setup a quick trip. The third stance is completely useless.

Also no warriors are charging in for a flank, you can't live that long. They turn around and you get executed.

I am just throwing out ideas that affect larger scale pvp.

It will always be more worthwhile to the raid to play a mage or ranger as dps. Would at least be nice to be able to run in and out and disrupt the raid for a few seconds.

[sick marsh]

yep.

same thing people have been posting on the forums for awhile now

same problem with melee in every n+1 type game, they arnt going to gigabuff your class to compensate for the systemic issue
i suggested giving tank 10% mit for every enemy player within 10 yards in pvp to facilitate space taking, but really i wouldnt expect this to get looked at at all, expect alot of 'its just an alpha' handwaving

a post like yours should be on the forum for best chances i think, if you havnt already

[serene robin]

Right.
Melee is a giant draw to alot of people in mmos,, you just simply can't melee in this one.

Nothing I suggested is a gigabuff.
We aren't good in raid pvp, even after the changes we still won't be good or preferred.

You get 2 spells off gbd, one is single target the other sets up your actual whirlwind and debuffs raid.

And then you get some mitigation in exchange for dps loss, and a aoe dot that does less damage overall than the casted ability should you not spec into it. Just allows us to focus on actually doing something rather than charging in, casting a debuff, then setting up whirlwind. By that time we're already dead.

[scarlet jackal]

When might they release patch notes for phase 2. (Not the page with PowerPoint images)

[crystal brook]

Some PTR Patch notes came out today - Imagine some more PTR patches to come before friday -- and then A2 patch notes Friday morning before servers up.

[maiden hearth]

Guys am I going crazy, I was watching this clip earlier and there was some kind of ability this guy was using that pulled ALLIES back to him? It’s not a tank, he looks like a cleric/bard? what skill is that?

[cinder tundra]

It's called succ, it's god tier

[maiden hearth]

Gluc gluc 9000

[cinder tundra]

Ah yes, the classic bard skill "Come hither, ye fool"

[outer sentinel]

every class has a role in raid. fighters can dps really hard and finish off people on the sides or snipe out that bard or cleric that needs to go asap

[outer sentinel]

sure its not rubberbanding?

[agile saddle]

There is no skill that does that

There is a tank skill to dash to ally, and a cleric skill to dash to ally
But no pull ally to you

[cerulean isle]

i wouldnt mind a off talent for chain to make it only work on allies, would come in handy some times when people are standing in dumb alot and where chain isnt needed for enemies

[balmy barn]

This picture is from Ashes Codex for Cleric build. Are the numbers on the skill-tree the priority in which you put your skill points?

[tawny rock]

Yes.

If that's a build layout to follow - yes, follow the numbers.

[balmy barn]

https://ashescodex.com/builds/cleric-in-ashes-of-creation

[tawny rock]

Hmm.

Now, I only spent about 30 minutes healing a small group as a Cleric, the rest of the time I was solo to level 12. But that spec is DEFINITELY aiming towards bomb heals vs HOT.

Leaving the HOT to 23 looks like just using it up to use up points.

And that will take it's own practice and techniques for healing vs solo leveling as a Cleric. I found as a cleric solo, Soothing Glow was pretty much all I needed to survive - especially if it crits.

Because once you crit, you just keep casting Soothing Glow on cooldown and it maintains the crit amount.

[balmy barn]

I lvl'ed my cleric to 13, and just randomly put points in that looked "nice" 😄 I was looking for some solid input for what to aim for coming friday 20th 😄

[tawny rock]

Good good. I think one thing I heard that is useful, is a targetting setting - Defensive targetting or something. Because that lets you auto attack an enemy to regen mana constantly, while you're healing.

[balmy barn]

Jeah, I use tab for enemy target and Caps lock for friendly target, but most of the time I just mouse hoover on party and press skill

<- old, and with short fingers, cannot "piano-play" anymore 😄

[tawny rock]

Sounds like a good technique! Also I thiiink Deliverance in particular, is mostly used as a tap or short hold heal. It's "hard" to charge the right amount of healing with it, without OVER healing.

[serene robin]

No they can't... a ranger would be better suited for that.

There is literally no purpose for fighters in a pvp raid atm. You would rather fill that spot with any other class.

[jaunty bone]

Then don't play fighter. I quite enjoy it though.

[outer sentinel]

ive seen fighters, they are more then capable even in big group pvp. group pvp is a whole different game anyway, as any class can wreck any class if you focus, so the attack-range matters and tradeoffs become valuable

[pseudo whale]

fighter is literally the only class that can do mass trip, one of the few hard cc currently in game. you can't move or perform actions for 3 seconds

[jaunty bone]

I know it's great isn't it?

[pseudo whale]

👌 its lovely, only thing is i personally think it's bugged, or it could just be animations, because it looks like enemies start moving immediately after they are tripped

[jaunty bone]

Seen that a few times, but they would snap back in place after a second.

Nothing like charging the 1 or two clerics in a raid, tripping em, slapping em around then jumping back out while their dps doesn't even look at me.

[pseudo whale]

exactly, lol. we may only have like 1 valid escape skill, but if we're not immediately cc'd going in on the target we're bursting we can drop a lot of damage, get out and still keep stuff stacked from afar

[jaunty bone]

Tbh i feel most people who complain about fighter lacking in pvp just want to leap in and whirlwind xD

[cinder tundra]

They just want to be garen, and they can't be garen, they can only be half-garen

[jaunty bone]

I learned using whirlwind in pvp was a waste unless they stand still and just don't target you

I save momentum for berserk.

[pseudo whale]

ah i never touch that in pvp. it works well on mobs, but not so much in pvp. whirlwind provides nice consistent dps, but lets say you had whirlwind up for 2s. in that 2s you could have laid down way more dps with other skills, not to mention because overpower and cleave come off cd with a weapon combo, you can't really use the argument of "oh, but what about using whirlwind while other skills are down" because by the time you'd worry about that the skills to start another combo would be off cd

[jaunty bone]

My favorite is the mass trip into maim with slicing. The bonus damage that it gets on tripped targets has absolutely chunked some people

[pseudo whale]

i love mass trip into maim, nothing feels better than seeing tank get stagger on a bunch of enemies and i follow up with a cata into maim. enough dopamine to keep me grinding for hours

[jaunty bone]

Same.

It's even better when maim and it's slice both crit

[pseudo whale]

perfection

[haughty pewter]

I know we haven't truly seen the rogue. But after playing PoE 2, the monk is kind of the direction I hope the rogue in Ashes goes. Fast combat, lot's of movement and jumping. Any thoughts?

[pseudo whale]

that sounds nice, as the game is with dodge and distance management basically all classes have multiple ways to control range, but having rogue be a melee class who has many movement skills because their intent is to get in and out would be nice

[pseudo whale]

vax from vox machina is my head cannon for what i wish a rogue would be like, because he is a rogue and throughout the series after getting his armor that description is basically one of the most defining parts of his char combat style https://youtu.be/3uuvwuR-m8k?t=70

[upper cipher]

dagger, dagger, dagger.... :)

[rough comet]

i was literally rewatching this episode last night lol

[pseudo whale]

it never stops being sick lol. i think this is my 3rd time seeing it, because i do a rewatch with each season

[rough comet]

Yeah I'm going through the entire season! Happened to watch this episode last night. It's a really cool interpretation of Rogue fantasy 🙂

[pseudo whale]

i enjoy it quite a bit, it shows a different narrative where instead of a one hit hide in the shadow approach they can be a speedy combatant

[elder belfry]

In terms from pvp point of view (small and large skirmishes), is fighter a good class in AoC?

[analog ridge]

Mixed reviews

[charred moat]

New name for "tank" class.

[pseudo whale]

that would be nice lol

[sweet scarab]

Nah

[bold pagoda]

please for the love of god rename tank

[tulip grotto]

?

Why

[frozen peak]

for me, it feels too meta-y, like let's just call rogues DEEPS

[sick marsh]

its reductive and disrespectful

HEY TANK GET OVER HERE

it also just feels really unpolished and placeholder

dont look at the class names in guild tab

[proud delta]

tank is a fine archetype name. yeah it shares its name with its role, but tank is the only role named after a real thing instead of something abstract. plus, mage/tank, ranger/tank, cleric/tank etc class combinations are much easier to parse than if you took a name like guardian or knight. what would a guardian/guardian be called? why not complain about fighter, aren't we all fighters?

[upper cipher]

There should be: Tanks, Heals, Burns, Pokes, Stabs, Hides, Sings, and Summons. (teasing)

Then when augment classes come out, you just use "and" between each. so "Tanks and Heals" or "Stabs and Sings"

[tulip grotto]

It kind of is placeholder considering after 25 you will be called something else

🤣

[umbral kindle]

ooo what about "ie and ish"

tankie healish

[waxen kindle]

Tank = Bulwark?

Or vat, really just fishing for synonyms...

[tulip grotto]

guardian is tank tank

[frank anchor]

I see the base class names as just that “base class”. They are the type that describes the over all focus of the more refined archetypes. It’s like an ingredient in the making of the character. “Guardian” is part of the “Tank” class of characters

When people get the augmented class they are going to look for groups based on that archetype “Spellsword LFG”. People are going to know that is a fighter class

As people get used to what each augmented archetype does they will build their parties based on their needs in a more refined way.

[waxen kindle]

Pretty sure you can switch class while in town. I don't think your locked into a class, only an archetype

[frank anchor]

You mean the augment? Secondary class? If that’s true that’s unfortunate I think

[waxen kindle]

I could be wrong, but I thought it was said in a Livestream that archetype is permanent. Class is not

[frank anchor]

Well I hope it’s not

I mean I hope it’s permanent

[agile saddle]

Primary archetype is permanent

Secondary archetype can be changed

[frank anchor]

🤷🏻‍♂️ ah well can’t have it all 😆

[elder skiff]

So going over everything. I think the archetypes currently lack identity. Some are better than others but it seems like it’s all just pick abilities and use your cooldowns. There are no mechanics or flavor to them that give them an Identity. I’m hoping these are just bare bones for testing.

Spec ability, use ability, spend mana, wait for cooldown.

Not to say I want exactly this but at least WAR had class mechanics like twisting, do damage to heal and vice versa, step systems, grudge build up, turrets etc

[frozen blaze]

Rangers need their update big time

[maiden hearth]

Bards are completely balanced and totally okay. Nothing to see here. Bards are in the most balanced spot in the history of MMO’s.

[agile saddle]

We don’t have secondary archetypes yet
Wait till then

[meager veldt]

So rogue not coning on friday ?

[meager veldt]

Cleric as a DPS can heal and dmg pritty efficiently. Also has divine power mechanic that makes them unique

Been playing it and cant swap to anything else

2h "paladin" is a great class identity aswell

[ionic stump]

Hey, quick question about the Ranger archetype. Does anyone know if the barrage skill is supposed to crit or not?
I don't think I've had one crit in all my testing.

[agile saddle]

no

[waxen kindle]

When you have a lot of systems, you don't need a ton of crazy class design to make them unique. As you build on top with weapon skills, armor choice, stamina (assuming it gets fleshed out), augments, ect.

[elder skiff]

Like I said some are better then others. Bard seems like it might have something. Other classes feel a bit more stale. Just hoping they flavor them a bit so it’s not just cooldown cycling

[carmine stratus]

can we test rogue before it comes out?

[cinder tundra]

Keep in mind, this is also level 25 we are talking about, so halfway to max through every class.

[crystal brook]

If you are on the PTR - yes - otherwise will need to wait till it is brought to Alpha 2

[elder skiff]

Agreed, but there isn’t going to be some magical difference at higher levels. Just more abilities and cooldowns to manage. It’s like cleric has a class resource it can spend. Tank should have something similar like a rage build up for damage taken (just an idea). Something that offers choices. WAR classes is a great example of what I’m referring too if you played it.

[snow frigate]

at the risk of being lambasted, I'd love to chat about higher level viability of a medium-range tank with the shortbow as a primary with anyone that's done something similar.

[echo arrow]

tank gats alot in pvp with shortbow before going in for execute, but it is obviously annoying for your team to have to chase mobs around and you don't really have anything in your kit to facilitate range tanking

[snow frigate]

well, I've not gotten a tank past 10, but I had mine set up so that I could move in and back out. I forget the names of the skills, but there's a few gap closers. What i've been doing that seemed to work fairly well is to pull a group of mobs and then back them up towards the group; then I use a gap closer, drop some close AOE, then dodge to the other side and kite them back and forth so that the rest of the group can go ham

me and a bard were having a ton of fun yesterday with it

I haven't been in any dungeons to know if that's actually something I can run there, or if I need to also learn a specific/meta PVE build

What I dislike is the long spool up time on the longbow, it makes tagging enemies for large pulls frustrating

I've never played a tank before; What I've enjoyed so far about the class is that I can play it like the HR from Neverwinter Online, essentially, because I have a decent amount of control over what and where I pull things, as well as being very maneuverable. I like the survivability of the tank, and it's nice to be able to keep my friends safe ❤️

I think I'm mainly interested in ways to reduce the cost of dodge, or whatever tools/equipment I'd need to renegerate stamina faster. I really love that there's dodge.

[echo arrow]

building up some threat with intimidating aura and kiting is one of the main ways you will handle mass pulls as a tank but these pulls tend to assume you aren't really using any weapons to attack beyond the initial shots to tag, it's not really tanking with a short bow as much as it is trying to avoid tanking entirely. there aren't any unique tools for stamina that the tank has access to, the stamina tree obviously has a bunch of features to improve dodge and refund energy when successfully dodging attacks, but by the time you hit 25 you should have maxed out your stamina tree as there are only 21 talents.

[waxen kindle]

Tanks have courage which is built up and you can spend on abilities. I think the issue is the primary ability that uses courage is lacking currently. But Fortify is really good and uses courage.

[echo arrow]

Issue with courage is you are incentivized not to spend it on anything other than fortify because it contributed to your damage mitigation and damage. and the default spender does so little its basically a damage loss

[delicate charm]

for a tank, taunt = king, and you won't lose aggro once you hit it. then for multi-mobs, every skill has a single or aoe version, and you generally want the aoe version, except bellow which you want the single target trip as it's your only guaranteed interrupt

[waxen kindle]

Agree, if they took Vengeance off gcd so it didn't interrupt your weapon combo it would feel much better.

[echo arrow]

the weapon combo is the main thing for so many abilities

even tomahawk might have a place if it didnt interrupt your combo

[delicate charm]

reflect, if timed right, is the most OP skill

[echo arrow]

but i'm australian so it usually gets canceled by the attacks queued up previously

[snow frigate]

did not know this, was running the AOE on that, thank you!

[snow frigate]

I lead with tomahawk?

[delicate charm]

lead with a shot from longbow, don't bother with tomahawk till later when you have spare points

[echo arrow]

even later tomahawk is a wasted point

[delicate charm]

the first hit on any mob = lots of aggro

i've only ever used tomahawk at 25 when in pvp build form

great for people running away, but useless in pve

[echo arrow]

as said pull with a bow or just throw up intimidating aura and charge through a couple of packs, the threat build by intimidating aura is insane and a couple of ticks of it will pretty much hold aggro on mobs until they die. tomahawk damage is comparable to a bow shot so its not worth a point especially seeing as tanks are severely point starved until level 18-20

[delicate charm]

or, if it's a caster mob, just hit it with taunt then LOS it or ranged tank

[snow frigate]

nice, thank y'all for the help!

[jaunty bone]

Does anyone ever see max HP increase after using Vengeance?

[carmine stratus]

gimmie rogue

[waxen kindle]

Max HP no, but it gives a very very small shield

[maiden hearth]

Wording is a bit wonky so I can see your confusion, but it’s a max health% shield. I don’t remember the exact wording but it’s something like “Temporary Health” for shield and increased maximum health for true max health increase.

With reading skills and vocabulary in this game I’ve learnt to go with DnD/Baldur’s Gate not WoW

[jaunty bone]

wThanks for clarification. English is my first language so I'm still learning. I've only been speaking it for 35 years.

[strong pasture]

How's Cleric for solo-leveling? Not great?

Been thinking of trying that out first. I did fighter the last test.

[frozen peak]

heh, CLR is probably the easiest solo class

Probably not as fast post rarity nerf

but is still the only class with real healing

[delicate lava]

Missed opportunity to give Bards a "song book" rather than a spell book.

[cerulean isle]

done right cleric is the best solo leveller, might be slower dps but its more viable and safer and if some extra mobs get pulled you can normally out heal the dmg

[brazen glade]

Cleric is good because you can heal yourself so you are not always resting but has very few damaging spells

[frank anchor]

How about a 2h for a few attacks?

[torn imp]

Any melee weapon cleaves atm. If I'm doing big pulls I like scepter and shield, feel like the block helps with dmg enough to be worth it. Otherwise 2h is probably best for more stats too

[strong pasture]

I thought that was Barf

I mean Bard...

[torn imp]

Bard felt just as easy to solo level on like frogs...but I can just never die on cleric

[crystal brook]

just remember folks - nerfi... errr... balancing is still yet to come.

[strong pasture]

unlikely

I don't think Clerics are a problem. I think a lot of the felt imbalance came from the huge advantage that offensive stats had over defensive stats due to gear and skill modifiers

Bard is a bit of a problem in my opinion, but we'll see

[candid briar]

bard an mage peak a bit yea, but i rather hope they buff the other classes a bit, especially ranger and tank - kinda seems like magical classes are in favor of physical atm

[delicate charm]

tank is actually pretty good for solo level too, because shake it off is a decent heal between kills, and your armor / mitigation helps you not take much. can easily just farm your level to minus 2's all day

[analog ridge]

I could definitely pull a few beasts in the starter area of my level without too much issue to speed things up yeah

[pseudo whale]

so i realize i don't use wallop much in my builds even in pvp, any fighters find it effective?

[strong pasture]

I only found it marginally useful as additional damage early on in leveling

[pseudo whale]

yeah felt about the same, the momentum feels useful for other stuff. what about knockout? i believe bleed ends the effect

[misty saddle]

Any other clerics out there that can confirm some targeting gripes? When I was healing raids last night it felt like you cant target an ally that you aren't in casting range of, is that correct?

As in, you cant see an ally from across the map and have them selected already as you get closer to cast on them the second you are able to

[strong pasture]

Knock out guarantees Cataclysm in PvP, so that's cool

[pseudo whale]

hmm that is useful, i never really used cata much in 1v1 situations since it took so long to cast, but does does technically allow for another combo path

[waxen kindle]

Has anyone done a deep dive into burning/conflag? I understand the basics but curious if anyone has really broke it down and tested

[delicate charm]

well, in a group, burning should stay up, no matter how many people pop conflag, due to weapon procs, blessed weapon, and enchant weapon.

so each conflag is just bonus damage

[waxen kindle]

Well burn duration increases as you stack, but conflag is always 4 seconds. So just curious if anyone has really broke it down and how to optimize conflag damage or how burn duration stacks limits of duration and whatnot

[lone cypress]

conflag tooltip is pretty clear, and burning is limited to 25s

[waxen kindle]

If an ability does 50% burn or 100% does that just impact how much it adds to duration?

[gritty wave]

hey guys, im new here. done a fair about of research but wanted to ask as i haven't played the game yet but am planning on taking part in the phase 2;
Ranger/rogue and rogue/ranger are what really interests me. the stealth archer style. executing from a far. maybe dual wielding in combat.
what's the speculation on how these would work and the difference between them?

thank you in advance to anyone who answers 🙂

[upper whale]

which node has the best cape for healer? there is also other node gear, but crafted gear is still better right?

[waxen kindle]

Ranger is currently 100% ranged. With mobility for disengagement and some cc. They have stealth but once you break stealth it's a long CD.

I assume rogue will be 100 melee with mobility for both disengagement & gap closers. With the ability to re-enter stealth on a fairly short CD.

Rangers have a lot of single target burst damage and it's mostly as an opener. I assume rogues will have burst but it's mostly setup/finisher, but that's pure speculation.

@gritty wave sorry answered above and didn't reply...

[strong pasture]

The BEST gear has to be crafted, but you can get good gear from the rep vendor

You may not need the best gear to do what you want to do. If you do, then you need to put in the commensurate amount of time and effort to do so via crafting

[rose rock]

is there a good intro guide to the archetypes?

[slate stag]

I gotchu

[slate stag]

https://www.youtube.com/@FlankerAOC

This guy makes great guides for the current systems

But the systems are prob going to change in phase 2, so just keep that in mind

[spark folio]

is there a reason tank's vengeance skill gives such little shield hp?

[analog ridge]

To contain your power

[jaunty bone]

Fighter is bae

[cinder scaffold]

no tankiness on fighter.... it disappointed me

going for tank

[tropic vortex]

What do we think the best secondary for a tank is?
Bow or book or something else 😮

[pine raptor]

I would think great sword for some extra damage and bigger cleave when you dont need sword and board

or any good 2h wep really

[tropic vortex]

I meant for the ranged slot 😛

[pine raptor]

oh yeah cant run double melee lul

[tropic vortex]

Or can you put a greatsword in that slot

Lol 😛

[pine raptor]

acutally im not sure now that i think about it lol

[tropic vortex]

You almost turned my whole world upside down 😂

[pine raptor]

it is a ranged slot looking and char planner so now im sad

i would prob say bow since its just gonna be used for pulling to LoS i guess

Im gonna start ranger so i can then feed all the dex gear to the rogue i wanna main lol

[carmine stratus]

When do we get rogue

[warm hemlock]

jan-feb

[violet rock]

Book is good for the stats, same with longbow. Shortbow is great for stacking debuffs.

[jaunty bone]

Just play fighter.

[tulip grotto]

Tentatively January could potentially be pushed to February

Oh nvm someone already said

🤦‍♂️

[warm hemlock]

Steven last stated January.

Which means February in StevenLand

[violet rock]

Unless fights get far more complicated you won't need so many tanks.

[maiden hearth]

Interesting that there are less fighters than Tanks, not my experience in LFG/Partying up via Global.

[tulip grotto]

True but if we are adjusting for Steven said time.... February of which year? 🤣🤣

[dark robin]

An actual answer: It won't be available until January/February, but will 99% chance be using dexterity as an attribute. For now, at launch, play Ranger(physical damage, dexterity gear), level up while gathering really good gear for lvl 1 and lvl 10 then, when Rogue is announced, create one and transfer the gear

[tulip grotto]

I mean you can still craft rogue gear as a tank or mage

[carmine stratus]

but bows

[sturdy bane]

I'm extremely surprised it's this even across the board to be honest, big success on AoC's part to have supportive roles this populated

[wintry marlin]

That’s because after p1 people realized fighters are dogshit in large scale PvP at the moment

But thingssss will change 🤞🏻

[sturdy bane]

particularily when fighters get access to their archetypes

i for one can't wait to see how summoner-x or x-summoner types will change the game

[jaunty bone]

And yet I'm still playing fighter

[pure quail]

Bard orrrr Cleric, I'm so conflicted 😆

Which is best for solo, bard?

[full relic]

So I am new and starting as solo, don't know anyone playing this game just yet. What is a good Archetype that would be best to start with?

[crisp bridge]

@full relic give them all a go. If you like don't like the feel of one, switch to another. Continue until you find one that sticks 🙂

[full relic]

That is good advice! 🙂

[crisp bridge]

also, don't feel like you need to play solo. Making groups and playing with others is very easy in the game, and very encouraged!

[crystal brook]

Bard if want to kill a little faster with a chance to die and get debt -- Cleric if it is ok to kill slower yet not die.....

[full relic]

Do some of the archetypes benefit from certain race selections?

[crystal brook]

not at this time to my knowledge

[spice radish]

do you think they will balance ranger in this patch note to have more single target dps than mage?

[marsh coral]

Don't solo

[full relic]

I see that Cleric is healing is there another archetype that does some healing as well or is it just Cleric for meow?

[modest sluice]

make rogue have threat mechanic with backstab to help tank keep aggro!

like in ffxi

its a fun gameplay that keeps you engaged as a dps

[marsh coral]

Bard does have a couple of off-heals, but nowhere near enough to be a dedicated full-group healer.
Bard has some massive damage mitigation tho, so it's more preventive than reactive.
Cleric is also the only class that can rez
A lot of high-end parties that want to play it safe run either 2x Bard 1x Cleric, or 2x Cleric 1x Bard

[thick sundial]

How is Bard for soloing mobs? Painful or no?

[marsh coral]

Best solo class -- but generally you shouldn't solo, it's a pain and nearly everything in the game pushes you to group up

[thick sundial]

Thanks, more just for random wandering/gathering, taking things in for the first time

good to know!

[marsh coral]

Yeah in that case pick Bard, you're the fastest class in the game ( can outrun the basic mount ), got a great toolkit ( healing, damage, silences, slows, trips, mana regen ) and you can find groups easily

[thick sundial]

I'll see if it can hold me over until summoner finally rolls out lol

[full relic]

So Rogue and Summoner are not available just yet right?

[crisp bridge]

Fighter, Tank, Mage, Bard, Cleric, Ranger
Dont think i missed one 😮

[worn junco]

bard has the same speed buff as ranger, just only 30 sec while ranger is 15 min long

[crisp bridge]

just run the speed song as bard.. zooms

[marsh coral]

I think it's nowhere near; Bard has Flourish spam with Dance Mastery: Energy + Melody + three separate Nimbles

[gritty wave]

think youll be able to play rogue ranged? id love that

[marsh coral]

might be wrong tho idk

[quick mesa]

i prefer cleric, spellsword,shield,book, heavy armor... i played a bard too, but when u solo ull get adds... cleric is much better for not to die in such situations

and ure welcome in groups 🙂 but a bard is that too

[marble sentinel]

so i know obviously there will be a 'meta' but how does the game go so far with overall balance?

i like coming up with my own builds and such versus just following guides

[crisp bridge]

with the amount of archetype combinations and skill mods you can make.. there wont really be a set "meta"

but obviously as it's just alpha atm, we have barely a fraction of finished content for skills and archtypes. So for now, can't tell/doesnt matter

[marble sentinel]

i just hate getting pushed out of content by people not liking if i'm not running a meta build

[young eagle]

Atm that wont be a thing for the most part

Unless youre trying to tank as a fighter or something like that

[crisp bridge]

find different groups to run with 🙂
Honestly though, with the amount of "class" customization that is planned, you could run your own pretty much unique brand of anything you like

[marsh coral]

That doesn't happen, plus you can respec' on the fly

[marble sentinel]

good to know! that was my biggest problem playing some other main mmos like eso

[marsh coral]

worst case scenario is: You're farming with a group somewhere in a tight space, and someone will ask you to not use AoE attacks because you're probably unknowingly pulling mobs from other rooms

that's about the only complain you might get

[marble sentinel]

i'm so stoked to get in. theory crafting and building classes is super fun for me

alpha 2 was a christmas present to myself lol

[crisp bridge]

just don't forget its very bare-bones with classes atm

[marble sentinel]

oh yeah, i'm tappering my expectations since it's alpha

but i don't wanna wait anymore to play lmao

[marsh coral]

yeah at max level you basically get all abilities except 3-4

[crisp bridge]

like, we can't class combine etc yet. Which will open up so much more customization

[sturdy bane]

summoner-tank hype

[crisp bridge]

bard/summ!

[marble sentinel]

its probably not like the ff14 system, but is there loadouts or anything? like i can have a few builds on deck? also like the armory system in eso?

since i can't get in yet, i'm just gonna ask questions lol

[sturdy bane]

no but you can respec for free iirc

[crisp bridge]

as of now, not so much. on release, probably

free respec to re-assign skill points/weapon buffs etc

[worn junco]

fair enough, same here as i have only played ranger and only have a bit of knowledge from wiki and playing with bards in-game.

[marsh coral]

Also remember than unlike FF14 once you pick your class, you won't be able to change it and have to create a whole new character if you want to try something different

[marble sentinel]

i don't mind that as much, but it does get annoying the larger the map is in addition to questing. large maps are fine, in fact i'm stoked about the size of AoC, and if it's easy enough to get an alt geared/ready, no big deal

but if it's like ff14 levels of questing to get to content on an alt, thats annoying

[crisp bridge]

no being locked into a MSQ to advance here.. yet anyways.

[sturdy bane]

Nahh, you're more likely to be level-tied than quest-tied.

which is much better tbh

[marble sentinel]

absolutely

[sturdy bane]

re-doing ARR 💀

[marble sentinel]

the horror

lol

[marsh coral]

Played three classes to max and three classes to ~lvl 16, don't think I've done a single quest outside of the starter one to get a horse 😶

[crisp bridge]

bounties are the way forward 🙂

[marsh coral]

this message gave me cancer

[marble sentinel]

engaging in content to get more content is a good way imo

[sturdy bane]

tO tHe wAkiNg sAnDs, hErO!

[crisp bridge]

best thing they ever did was add teleport scrolls to that place -.-

[rapid nest]

Hey Theory crafters. Whats the progression for a DPS fighter?

[marsh coral]

Depends on the type of content you're facing and if you're going more single-target or AoE damage

In general tho Fighter is not great at low levels, so don't focus on damage a lot and get stuff that is helpful for the group ( like Crippling Blow and Knock Out to interrupt )

It changes massevely at like lvl 13+

https://ashescodex.com/planner

[rapid nest]

When would overpower ever be better than cleave? same damage but cleave hits multiple

[analog ridge]

Idk once I hit 5 or so fighter had a very fast clear

[rapid nest]

sorry... cleave does MORE damage than OverPower

[marsh coral]

Deals 25% more damage and hits in an arc
but it does cost 1 skill point

[analog ridge]

Once I got Consuming Blow on Lethal I could pull multiple wolves at a time and then run through a level lower group of mobs to heal and go back to the higher zone

[marsh coral]

Yeah that's good for sustain while chain pulling white mobs solo, but it falls off massively once you start grouping up with people to either do mass-pulls or 3* elites
gets better once you hit the last tier of abilities tho

[rapid nest]

I've never been a big fan of spin to win builds.. So I was thinking for my first 4 points. 1. lethal, 2. cripple, 3. lethal l2, 4. savagery

[frozen peak]

Spin is overrate IMO (at least until you're nearly maxed out with skill points to make it effective)

[marsh coral]

Yeah it's not worth it until you're like lvl 18 or something like that

[frozen peak]

You give up too much hard CC early on

and mobility

[marsh coral]

I'd recommend Lethal into Consuming Lethal, rest fully depends on what the hell you're doing at that time
Blitz into Raging Blitz is good if you're chain-pulling white mobs, Brutal Cleave is better if you have a group and are doing AoE pulls, Crippling Blow is all around nice to have

[analog ridge]

Oh yeah I bet it does. But in a solo leveling environment it’s a satisfying rotation and seems pretty efficient assuming you aren’t grouping. Felt like some of the groups that formed weren’t as efficient with the population size taking part of the mobs you’d get anyway

[rapid nest]

Doesn't make sense to group up until level 3 or 4. Then i'll see who I end up farming with

[marsh coral]

and where, too

[rapid nest]

and when too 😥

[marsh coral]

RIP

[pastel pelican]

hey gamers, new here, any recommendations for solo gaming?

[marsh coral]

yeah don't

get into groups it's way better

MAKE groups, that's best

[rapid nest]

fight under your level mobs

[gaunt geode]

people who playes EQ bards and have tried AoC bard, how is the comparison?

played*

[warm hemlock]

Rogue is Jan-Feb.
Summoner is Phase 3 which is May+

[shut niche]

Has anyone seen any responses or information regarding non-targeted abilities and terrain elevation? like not being able to connect abilities you cast from above or from below a target?

[full relic]

Thanks!

[rapid nest]

I believe the patch notes had a comment about revives by Clerics no longer being stopped by losing LOS. (because of this terrain elevation issue)

[shut niche]

That's good. But cleric rez is targeted, so that not working is super bad. I'm referring to non-targeted stuff, like Rangers scatter shot

[marsh coral]

Aight lock in boys

[pastel pelican]

is there any place i can find good builds and stuff?

or maybe like a leveling guide or smth?

[misty trench]

What class is everyone making? 😮

[keen anchor]

Bard is my favorite and i hear its pretty good too so imma rip Bard until Summoner releases. That is of course unless im IN LOVE with bard

[misty trench]

Bard was really fun, lots of things to do in group play

[keen anchor]

Someone said theyre pretty insane in a 1v1 too

[misty trench]

Yeah I watched a 15 bard absolutely shit on a 20 tank

[keen anchor]

Thats what i love to hear

[misty trench]

I got to dig into Ranger and Bard pretty nicely but didnt get to see much of mage, which is usually my go-to in games

im STILL trying to decide what to play rn

[keen anchor]

I feel that when i saw summoner on the website i got super excited but i guess its not until may RIP

I usually heal in MMO's but i dont think i will much in this one, who knows that

tho*

[misty trench]

I didnt care for clerics feel at all for some reason

Im stoked on summoner tho

[keen anchor]

Yeah i got a feeling itll be a banger, I skipped phase 1 cause i work fri-sunday so it wouldnt be worth it. You get to choose a secondary archetype?

[misty trench]

Not currently

[ionic forum]

https://ashescodex.com/

[keen anchor]

Ahh on the website it shows a primary and a secondary or whatever thatll be fun when it drops

[misty trench]

Yeah thats a future thing, just not implimented yet

gonna be dope tho fs

[keen anchor]

Summoner bard sounds lit cant wait to try it in the future

[ionic forum]

drunken summoner, what could go wreong

[misty trench]

amen to that

[keen anchor]

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss This is the way

[misty trench]

and go Dunir for extra ounces in you Flagon

I wish there was an ongoing poll of what people are playing lol

[ionic forum]

I feel like dwarves would be too cantankerous to be Bards 🤔

[keen anchor]

Oh yeah can any race be any class?

[misty trench]

Yessum

At least currently, dont think there's any race:class locks planned

[keen anchor]

Thats sick, ive been playing WoW HC lately and thats one thing i absolutely hate is race locked classes

[ionic forum]

It makes a lot more sense when there are racial passives

annoying as it may be

[keen anchor]

Yeah i suppose, i just wanna look at the character i want to XD

[ionic forum]

straight to jail

[keen anchor]

😈

[misty trench]

SEems like Tanks and Rangers are the more under-played ones

albiet on a small sample size and not by a ton

[keen anchor]

Ranger looks fun, tanking is too stressful

[misty trench]

Made a Dunir ranger, less gear competition

lol

[quaint shale]

Mage and Tank are still the same colour pls send help

[white cairn]

Was there any class updates ?

[unique eagle]

Is tanking with a two handed sword viable at the moment or is a shield necessary?

[gaunt geode]

anyone else on bard having to press pensive melody like 3 times to re cast?

[fallen bridge]

ok on bard whats the diff between Jest, Mock and Quick wit

[gaunt geode]

jest can heal or dmg

i mean jest can only heal

[amber vortex]

@m1ch if gives you the choice of having separate keys for the heal or tomato. Otherwise if it's one key, it's target dependent

[gaunt geode]

what weps yall using for bard?

[last crown]

is Tank Fortify a max of 40% or 20%?

[waxen kindle]

https://youtu.be/xQOIz8nUHIA?si=0Zk8XGGDSAvKVT7M

Devs break down bard mechanics in detail, worth the watch.

[gilded moss]

I thought they were going to release the other 2 archetypes, rogue and summoner, this phase of testing. When will they be released?

[spark basin]

Rogue will be in this phase, towards end of Jan. Summoner was always intended for phase 3 I beleive.

[gilded moss]

OK, thank you

[spark basin]

Wand and Focus for range, and Spell Scepter with focus for the very rare times a mob can get in melee (its more of a stat stick)

[kindred shard]

When can we get new weapons to try out?

[marsh coral]

Short Spellbow for Ranged, Two-Handed Spellsword for Melee

[rigid nimbus]

Probably same for cleric yeah?

[white jasper]

Someone knows how to cure my tank in party with bard with "Quick Wit" even if i am targeting mobs?

[marsh coral]

Long Spellbow for Cleric

[marsh coral]

To my knowledge there's no "focus" mechanic or shortcut --yet
so you have to manually click on the tank, heal him, then click on the mob again

[mint galleon]

Break quick wit into two skills

[sudden sentinel]

I think there is a key bind option available but not set by default. Tab cycles targeting, or B.

[mint galleon]

Defensive targeting is one as well

[rigid nimbus]

I just learned about dual targeting, makes it so much easier

Highly recommend turning that on if healer

[hot swift]

The hover casting is amazing. Forget what the actual name of the option is, but it's in the same area

[rigid nimbus]

Ohhh I didn’t see that one. We need the updates to get raid frames to go horizontal so I can set it up

[gloomy gate]

wait this is a thing?

does it just set a target for your heals so you don't have to switch?

[small willow]

Talk to me clerics, what are you cool move to keep the peasants alive

[foggy pecan]

if im understanding the original question: how to select the tank in combat. the F1 - F8 keys select the player. clicking on the group display does as well

[hot swift]

With the hover casting (I'll find the actual option name) you don't have to select, just hover over the frame, to cast

dual targeting would be the way to "focus target" so far in this game. it maintains the friendly target until you click another one

[small willow]

Very usefull ❤️❤️❤️

If the tank is like 5th position on my raid list, is there a way to put it on top or to make him easy to heal?

[rigid nimbus]

Yes! So you have defensive target and offense target

You can auto attack offensive while spamming heal on defensive

No clue how to get judgement to know when to do the different targets

[gloomy gate]

thanks for posting about it. will be sure to enable when servers are available again

[amber vortex]

Is this only available in the action mode?

Or can it be used for tab target also?

[hot swift]

Tab target!

[amber vortex]

Huh... just a setting?

[hot swift]

Yep! It's new

[amber vortex]

I was looking for this during the last wave/phase

okay cool, thanks!

[hot swift]

Within the last couple of patches

Dual targetting is great, if you want to keep a target slected like a tank, while maintining autoattack on enemies. Pair this with the hover casting option, and you can also spot heal your party. Personally, I do not use the dual targetting, but I absolutely see the value in it

[high jungle]

Didn't play during phase one really whats hover targeting?

[hot swift]

It wasn't in P1, so you didn't miss it. Basically it's an option in the targeting section, to enable healing on mouseover of the unitframe, instead of having to click to select and then heal

[high jungle]

So if I have an enemy targeted but mouse over an ally's party frame hitbar it will heal them for that cast?

[hot swift]

Judgement will be the finnicky one since it can both harm and heal. It will still automatially select damage if you have an enemy targeted, and it will heal yourself, even on mouseover someone else .

[hot swift]

yes!

Not in the field though

Has to be the partframe

party frame*

At least, for tab targeting it does. I have not tried these options in action targeting so far

[small willow]

Party frame but no for raid frame?