alpha-two-archetype-chat

[warm sphinx]

I'm relatively new into the game having just joined yesterday, but overall the tank has felt stale compared to what I have seen other archetypes be able to do. And even some basic needs for the class could be met down the road.

Animation commitment for basic attacks makes blocking between swings difficult and require sacrifice of finishers to combo strings. From what I have seen and heard, shields and blocking aren't very well utilized because of similar drawbacks. With an archetype whom should be benefiting the most from its use, it doesn't feel like it does anything but slightly reduce damage the times you CAN use it and puts a dead stop to anything else you could be doing to help in the fights.

~~Can we also get a Courage meter or some way to track the resource? If mana and stamina dictate so much and get a meter, Courage should too. ~~

EDIT: There IS a gauge for Courage, but it's very small and encapsulated with the archetype icon beside the other bars. I only just now noticed, but overall could still be made more clear that is what it indicates.

Can we get a calculated number for Vengeance and maybe an overlay on the HP bars for temp HP or just convert it to shielding akin to other archetypes? Staring at a calculation makes me confused as to how effective it actually is. I know it is only because I'm staring at my HP bar trying to figure out how much health I didn't lose

[sudden summit]

For my clerics in here, what weapon type are you going for? Does it really matter as long as it has magical power and magical cast speed?

[toxic ridge]

It can matter depending on playstyle/needs. For instance shortbow is great for solo/mp regen. Wand is better for grp range

[lost heath]

FIGHTER DEEP DIVE THREAD: https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/1gsx5xc/fighter_deep_dive/

[sudden summit]

Gotchya, thank you for the input

[lofty dew]

dude I swear people are going to keep bard god tier forever with takes like this

im all for it

to be real though i dont understand what you're saying at all
you still have a swiss army knife of amazing tools that you want to use properly
the only things you fan through are the buffs. its such an engaging and fantastic class

[lavish galleon]

Im a bard and I feel like the class is still great.

[late linden]

Is it Just me or does tank feel really bland lackluster to play. Either feels not tanky enough or feels like its damage in general is too low? Or is it Just the tanking gear that feels kinda badly designed to survive magic ? Reason im asking is cause I feel i need to ration every mob and I can only pull 1 mob at a time. Currently level 10. If I pull 2 mobs or 3 even multiple levels below me. I still end up dying. And this is sometimes even while getting healed, like im not asking for changes. But im asking opinion here.

[toxic ridge]

The difference between feedback might be the expectation one has with the class. One thing to always keep in mind is where AoC wants that class to be, not what we as players want it to be and feedback based on that assumption.

[wet mulch]

As I said, I'm all for nerfs to bard. Please don't take what I said in the exact opposite way I said. I want the class to still feel like the same playstyle post-nerfs. The way to do this is with direct nerfs, not retooling. Resonant Weapon was changed in such a way that it went from rewarding a risky playstyle of casting less often and attacking more often to a default playstyle of touch every key you can in an effort to build stacks, occasionally attacking to consume those stacks. That's why I said that the class went from meticulous to button-mash.

[wet mulch]

I'm always going to give feedback based on what's fun to me. Steven has stated that's what they value, not specific suggestions of changes, buffs, nerfs, ect. I understand they may want to bring the class in a new direction. On the off chance they didn't realize how huge a change in design direction the Resonant Weapon changes were, I'm trying to calmly explain my take on why I don't find this new direction fun.

[lofty dew]

old resonant wasnt risky at all, it just always applied

[wet mulch]

Perhaps "risky" isn't the right word. Old Resonant made you choose between more weapon attack combos (and trusting the cleric) and less weapon attack combos but more spells. It was an opportunity cost. I don't mind a design direction that allows spells to be used without "punishing" the total mana regen of the group (through less completed Pensive + Resonant weapon attack combos). What bothers me about the bard Resonant change is the encouragement to spam abilities. Often I find the abilities I'm casting aren't needed or relevant in any way, but I'm "fanning" abilities on GCD because of the need for new Resonant Weapon stacks. It is a more thoughtless and button-masking playstyle that I don't enjoy.

[untold patio]

could've sworn bard had some way to apply incapacitated, but I can't find it

[loud silo]

two ways, you have a dance, mesmerizing dance and marrionette I believe

should both be on the middle tier

[wintry sequoia]

Anyone else have issues with paying your node dues? I had to pay mine twice and it's still telling me that I have to pay.

[agile saddle]

Tbh i don’t even button mash, i just use discord, flourish, mesmerise, flourish
Gives me 4 stacks, which becomes 400+ mana on finisher proc, it’s kinda nuts how much mana we can hand out now

Also you don’t need 4 stacks to activate resonant weapon
It activates with 1 stack, so you can keep the same playstyle as before, just use 1 skill between every finisher

Tbh i think it needs to be reduced
Using menacing with 10 stacks you can shred thru anyone if you proc a finisher and extended finisher

Especially if you have a wand

[marsh coral]

Dance Mastery: Energy has become insane with the recent Resonant Weapon changes.

[abstract sandal]

anyone feel like fighter is using a ton more momentum now? cant do infite spins or keep up beserk it feels like

[white jasper]

why is the fighter not spinning a lot anymore? the damage has dropped by 90%, spinning only for 3 seconds

[white jasper]

Same shit here, bizarre

Fighter is dead

[fervent rock]

or fixed?

[loud silo]

Are you guys in a laggy area like highwaymen hills?

[white jasper]

dead

[mental hornet]

Are bard songs magical attack or physical? Trying to determine whether to do spellbook and spell sword, or energy Spellbook and sword.

[abstract sandal]

cant do spinning much beserk instantly fades basicly kinda tragic

[wet mulch]

Are you asking which stat they scale off of? They scale from Magical Power Rating

[mental hornet]

Yes exactly this. I figured I would test it out so I got the spellsword and regular spellbook and damage improved with the sword 🙂 Thank you for responding

[wet mulch]

What do you mean by this? Both of those should be Magical Power Rating. The damage of the weapon is something entirely different. The damage of your spells scales by wearing both a melee and a ranged MPR item. MPR is added to your character sheet from both slots no matter which one’s out/being used.

[mental hornet]

I mean I was simply using Copper Sword, not spellsword before and my damage was negligble compared to with spellsword equipped

[warm wind]

somebody knows why im i appliying chill with my basic greatsword attacks?

[lavish galleon]

Aye bard uses magic rating don't use the physical ones.

[lusty sinew]

One question regarding my fighter. I was in a citadel group today and for whatever reason, I could sometimes use Whirlwind in an endless spinning. Normally combat momentum is drained by the skill but for whatever reason it was even rising to the max and stayed there. Is there a skill from another group member that does this? Could a bard be the reason for it?

[mental hornet]

Good to know, thank you both.

[lusty sinew]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/1gsx5xc/fighter_deep_dive/ seems to be a bug if I read this

[slender minnow]

I enjoy the A10 brrrr style currently

[slender minnow]

Why do you think this is? Just out of curiosity ? I been thinking about it but haven’t tried it yet

[agile saddle]

That shit is op, just 1 combo and extended finisher can drop the squishies

[agile saddle]

You get another use of flourish the moment you start a dance

It’s op as hell to get around a PvP battle

Each flourish is also a resonant stack

[toxic sinew]

Resonant weapon also stacks up to 10 times and you can release 4 at once. So now you have a talent that resets an ability in multiple scenarios, so you just weave it for free flourish stacks

[buoyant thicket]

Why doesn't this tooltip mention how many arrows? Without that info I don't know how much total damage nor how much cdr I get.
Is it because it depends on atk speed?

[toxic ridge]

Not fully polished yet, so good feedback I'd say

[ionic elm]

any mages know if there is a combat setting that mkes it so aoes are cast on yourtarrget as the center of the aoe?

[balmy iris]

Class?

[agile saddle]

More than likely it’s a wand/book proc you have that’s happening with melee finisher, it’s a bug, you get all the procs of all the weapons you have leveled, it’s kinda busted

[gloomy oriole]

do tanks get some kind of interupt?

[maiden hearth]

Hey guys, I wanted to talk about Song Mastery: Dissonance Skill on Bards.

For some reason, sometimes when Im playing Cheerful Melody and I use Chilling Lament, for Single target specifically, the dissonance just doesn't trigger. I've tested this many times and Im not sure what exactly the trigger is, but it's normally if you're in a party it doesn't trigger just this combo specifically, Cheerful + Lament

Also, since this playstyle kinda encourages a "Song weaving" type of playstyle, sometimes there's a pretty significant (I'd say almost 0.7 or even 1s) when the cast ends and you get the buff. This makes it so if you are WEAVING songs, CHANGING songs in this 0.7-1s window will actually cause you to NOT get the buffs.

[warm wind]

Fighter and i use greatsword and longbow

[robust cargo]

It's not clear if the bard melodies are supposed to last after their channel, or if that's still a bug.

[warm wind]

Oooh it makes sense since i leveled a book and choose chilled as first finisher

[marsh coral]

Because you can:
Flourish -> Shielding Dance ( 1 tick ) -> Flourish -> Nimble Dance ( 1 tick ) -> Flourish -> Maddening Dance ( 1 tick ) -> Flourish

this gives you 8 stacks in three or four seconds

[agile saddle]

then drop those 8 stacks with menacing into a single target and blow them up

[wintry isle]

where is this passive located? i looked all over the class skills for bard and dont see it, i must be blind or something

[lofty dew]

It's godlike

It gives you great mixups and mobility in pvp
Bonus points for nonstop giving your homies pep

[lofty dew]

Yeah it's so insane

The only thing that concerns me is that it reads 'finish' a dance. Which means they maybe intended for the reset to only happen when a dance finishes, which would be so much worse

[wintry isle]

does putting pts in these on bard do anything?

quick wit seems to have same numbers already

[shy dragon]

It's for people that want them as separate buttons

[wintry isle]

ooo ty

[wintry isle]

ty i am blind 🙂

[agile saddle]

Costs nothing, but lets you hover heal allies

[orchid galleon]

Are passives of your secondary weapons (ex: +5% pen) work even when you have your primary out ?

[slender minnow]

Yeah that is how I read it and didn’t try it because of that but might go test it out

[ashen leaf]

I’m also curious of this

[elder talon]

I tested this using the bonus crit damage and a guarantee crit ability and it appeared to me to be working even when the weapon wasn’t out

[toxic ridge]

Anyone else running into the issue of your first hit (if using a skill) doesn't register on the mob? You can see the dmg numbers, but it doesn't take?

[orchid galleon]

I fiddled with it as well, but sometimes the maths are just not following, unless the % base isn't following your total stats, for example with 4 perks on both weapons combined that gives +5% penetration on physical and my +10% pen from my hunt (ranger) I still have 18% pen in my character sheet, where I should theorically already be at 30% 🤔

It still increases, but not from the said amount

[elder talon]

It might be that some abilities work but not others. I’m not sure.

[orchid galleon]

I guess 🤷

[sweet lark]

Will archetypes make like a new talent tree or is it just the two talent trees from each class?

[toxic ridge]

We don't know for sure yet

[orchid galleon]

From what was described, none, it might just add effects / talents choices in the current tree 🤔

[elfin inlet]

It's hard to test that without a damage meter

[lofty dew]

Theres dim returns on all the stats

But the crit avoidance is so broken that you basically never get crit with it stacked

[warm sphinx]

Alright, I made a post earlier with some initial complaints about tank and some of it was shortsighted. Took a step back, watched some videos and thought on it. I still think class specific resources need to be more visible and formulas should be calculated on the tool tips (maybe give the equation as part of the Shift more info). But to me it still feels narrow as a class. What do you think?

My experience improved as I got more levels, but felt that unless I took specific skills I couldn't do my job well

As reference, I got to level 9 over this weekend.

[lean crystal]

Once you get past level 10 and get some gear on ya Tank starts to feel pretty beefy. You get some decent damage combos to pull off and have a lot of functionality in positioning the mobs. Your active block and dodging becomes a focal point and you are doing more than just, "Stand still and tank mobs". Early levels it feels like you are just a watered down Fighter or something though hahaha

[marsh coral]

You didn't even get to the good part as Tank, it becomes insane starting from level 12-13 onwards

[warm sphinx]

I see, I see. Is this similar in other archetypes? That it doesn't really "feel good" until 10+?

[late linden]

i generaly think tank is in a ok spot past 10 but pre 10 its in a terrible spot. and this could be fixed by either making it so abilities do 50% more damage while below 10 or armor + mr is increased by 30% overall as a passive that the class has. but only up to 10. this would tweak fix alot of the survival issues the class overall has compared to other classes. also the finisher fighters have that they heal health + mana. tank could use something like that as a finisher. but can be on a bit longer cd. but also it could be changed to a different skill as u hit level 15 or something. so it stops healing. but this fixes some of the minor leveling issues the class has overall. which is currently holding it back.

the % values ofc can be tweaked alot less or more depending. im just giving some realistic numbers out there to make it simpler to get past the bottleneck point at earlier levels.

also their first level 1 ability needs drastic buffing. cause that shield. is worthless. it needs to be 1% not 0.1% if its gonna be in any realistic state of usefulness

this would also make it so u dont have to lock armor based on class. to keep 1 armor better then other value wise

[final hound]

i hope bard x achetype make him proper class 😄 other than "walking mana potion" 😄 full heal build low , full dps low ... its fun to play both but priest overheal me 10 times and other dps classes even dont mention about dps 😄

[late linden]

well bard is a "support" not "healer" or "dps"

[final hound]

sure it is but nothink special than other clases have and also get dps hard or heal more , interupt silence stun and other thinks other clasess have 😄

[late linden]

my friend who plays bard said that the whole bard kit is around "saga" that they get at 12 so

[final hound]

yes it is , but still nothing special , maybe get buffed in future

[late linden]

i feel like its not a good idea to have a trio healer tank dps system. and then interdoucing a support that doesnt either heal about 80% of the value of true healer or dps 80% of a dps. if its massivly lower its gonna feel underwhelming to play compared to a pure class.

but remember. it is alpha

everything is up to change before we know it

[lost heath]

Bard most definitely brings a lot to the table for a group. Its a good idea

Also,

Need more input from experienced fighers here!!!

https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/1gsx5xc/fighter_deep_dive/

[final hound]

yes it is its fun to play , but 50/50 i feel so useless 😄

[late linden]

when i was leveling tank. and my buddy was healing with cleric. i felt fine to pull 3-5 mobs even at level 6-10 as long as i kept avoiding shit and avoided alot of casters. but the minute he swapped to bard he was struggling to keep me up on CD against 2-3 mobs maybe mobs where hitting harder but in general it felt awfull to get healed by a bard. compared to a cleric. Cleric is Too strong while bard is Too weak for heals but then again cleric is pure healer with like 1-3 damage abilities

[junior egret]

Are they going to change TANK's name to something more appropriate?

[final hound]

"the one who cant keep agro" 😄

[late linden]

im curious how summoner will play. will it support? will it dps only? will it heal? rogue seems kinda "stealth attack kill move on"

[junior egret]

IDK why but it really bothers me and I am not even playing it, or just call fighter-melee dps, ranger-ranged dps, etc, its a metagmame description that no other class has

[late linden]

the aggro system needs work. the only skill that is working for aggro is the shout aura skill called wrath something cuase it generates aggro based on 30% of ur max hp each 0.5 sec. every other ability is worthless for aggro

while other skills just hit for 10-100 depending on ur level

meaning they do 20-30 - 200 - 300 threath while the wrath aura does 300 in 1 tick x 20 during the wrath aura

thats like pre 10

and it just gets better the more hp u get

also. taunt doesnt even function for treath XD

[crisp flicker]

intimidating aura

[late linden]

ye thats the name i think

[junior egret]

i noticed tanks have difficulty holding aggro off my fighter, but I honestly Im more bothered by the class name. Call it: protector/guardian/wardon/soldier/man at arms, anything that fits the setting imo.

[late linden]

when u go tank tank eventually when game is out ull be called guardian XD

[final hound]

as bard have lowering threath by %of magic so it must depend on some stat for tank too i think

[crisp flicker]

Taunt works well, there's small issues in the game where if a mob is chasing someone, it won't disengage untill after it stops. the problem is, is the no damage is cuasing it to not work properly where as intimidating aura will snatch agro as soon as an enemy is effected by it

but there's actualy a better use for Taunt

[late linden]

nah. currently i tested with my friends. and multiple "threath generating abilities" dont generate treath. compared to intimidating aura. i use that 1 time. dont touch the mob after and i dont loose treath at all

[crisp flicker]

so when enemies are mobbed up if you damage one you'll pull the whole group, sense taunt doesn't do any damage you can pull one mob without pulling the group

[late linden]

taunt itself doesnt even pull the mob

[crisp flicker]

that's kinda why there's taunt and grapple for pulls

[late linden]

all it does is debuff the enemy with 30% damage down

[crisp flicker]

I'm a 25 tank I've used it all the time

[junior egret]

"Tank" is just what people ask for in general chat, which should apply to several class combos. A dude in a fantasy setting wouldn't refer to themself as a "tank".

[late linden]

i dont doubt u. but im just saying. if the ability doesnt even pull the mob and my friend at 1 level below me. hits the mob 1 time. for lets say 50 damage. and taunt should give me 3k treath cause i have 1500 hp. but he gets aggro still. then its not working properly

[crisp flicker]

you use it to pull mobs that arn't agroed yet

[late linden]

thats what grapple is for XD

[crisp flicker]

dude

you're not paying attention

[marsh coral]

y'all mfs don't use bow or what

[late linden]

i do. but im usualy just grappling 😄

[crisp flicker]

let's say you have 5 mobs in a group, if you do any damage to a mob you'll pull the whole group. if you're in a situation where you don't want to pull the whole group you can use Taunt and it pulls only that mob instead of the group sense you're not damaging it

otherwise yes use grapple, then you can use Tuant for pvp

[late linden]

that has never happened for me last whole week when i was using taunt XD i taunted mobs. and it got debuff. debuff ran out. mob was still standing there not moving.

[crisp flicker]

Intimidating aura will gather any mobs instantly you shouldn't need to taunt in the middle of a fight

well I don't know what to tell you, always worked fine for me. even pulls agro off people you just have to wait for the mob to stop moving once it has it's target it's locked in untill it stops moving

[late linden]

i would use taunt on a 3 star enemy tbh in fight just due to the fact it gives 30% damage down on the target.

[crisp flicker]

one major issue is grit will fall off and stop working even if it sais it still is

[late linden]

i never had that issue

[crisp flicker]

if you're iron aura ever drops for some reason, re-apply your grit as well

[late linden]

only time grit or iron aura goes away is when i die. not anytime else

[crisp flicker]

you never have that issue yet you're having issues holding agro

come on now you're just complaining for the sake of complaining at this point

[late linden]

no im not having issues holding aggro. im having issues with taunt not functioning

besides i put the tank on the shelf. its too weak in my eyes early and needs tweaking

[crisp flicker]

if grit is working fine, you should be able to pull agro and stand in a pack of 10 mobs doing nothing and no one will pull agro off you even if time to kill is like 40~60 seconds, it bugs out and stops working

I tested this on beetles I was having issues holding agro and ones kept getting away, I dropped my iron aura and grit and just popped intimidating aura once and stood there while the party burned down the beetles no other abilities used no basic attacks

dropped and re-applied

you're grit needs to be working in order to pull agro if grits not working you won't pull agro and have to re-apply it

your*

[late linden]

in what cases is grit bugging out for u? asking so i can compare

[crisp flicker]

I'm still trying to figure that out but I noticed my Iron aura would fall off sometimes, I usualy use that as a sign my grit isn't doing its job

[late linden]

like are u riding mount with it on. u go off mount now its not functioning? are u using intimidating aura and now its not functioning? are u using any other abilities and it stops functioning?

i c

[crisp flicker]

I think it has something to do with silence effects

[late linden]

i havent ran in to that issue at level 1-10 where grit fell off and iron aura staid on 100% while at level 10 besides while dead

[crisp flicker]

might also be a flagging issue going into pvp zones or crossing server workers, I plan to look more into it next weekend

[late linden]

ok if u figure it out. do tag me cause i wanna hear ur response specificly about it

also 1 thing to maybe help to check it. have ur stat sheet open with physical power opened

cause it shows the % for grit values

[crisp flicker]

grits funny like that, sometimes I'll have it off but still get -damage

[late linden]

ye i noticed its not retroactivly updating as u get courage. i have to reapply it even tho its at -23% to get it to -15% at 100 courage

but if ur theory is correct and grit falls off it should remove the % value

[crisp flicker]

yeah it's not that grit falls off, iron aura will but grit stays active and looses the ability to effect agro

that's why it was such a pain in the ass to figure out

I thought it was the mobs I was fighting then I was like hey guys im gonna relog and pull agro and do nothing to see what happens and I just stood there doing nothing and held agro against like 8 scarabs without any of them peeling off

[late linden]

that might be the only bug where a video clip might be needed instead of a pic with short description to acctually investiage the bug

[crisp flicker]

that's why I want to do more testing cause there's multiple factors, going to scarabs you cross into pvp which flags you as a combatant, that could be a cause. they also have a dispell and silence attack, and you're crossing server workers so it could be any number of things

[late linden]

easy way to test silence is pvp duel with a cleric that uses the healing circle. that silences enemies

have him test 2 different damage hits on u before and after circle goes out

to see if number is the same

and u spec in to magic mitigation on grit

[crisp flicker]

well that's what makes it hard to figure out, it doesn't shut grit off it just breaks it

[late linden]

well if its the silence that breaks it

u can figure out based on the damage numbers

if u do 10 hits before and 10 hits after full healed but he silences u to see the diff

if its now doing more damage higher against u compared to before

tahts an indication that silence removes it

[crisp flicker]

well the stats work like a snapshot, it's applied and stays but with buggy mechanics, your stats might stay the same and loose whatever effects threat generation

[late linden]

i guess

but u can also have him silence u and u pull mobs

to test aggro diff

[crisp flicker]

I would need someone for that, a lot of people don't actualy want to do hunt for bugs

[late linden]

just need a level 6+ cleric

circle is at level 6 i believe

or 5

but as i said if u do figure it out. do tag me cause i wanna know if there is a solution to the issue to what does it. etc cause the more reports about it that we can give attention to . the higher it goes on prio list

[crisp flicker]

yeah I usually post these things in the forums but I prefer to figure out the cause and effect first

once I find a way to replicate it i'll post it and I can link you to the thread

[lofty dew]

bro the takes in this cord are absolutely WILD

this is the only thing thats gonna keep bard from getting gargantuan nerfs

theres so many bad takes

[final hound]

true , especialy , each archetype can be played all ways so i think other classes may get example from bard , if u wanna have too much archetype u need have each class to able take all roles as dps , support , healer , tank . its so f hard for developer to ballance it all , so i hope crossing archetypes isnt just about take that role . But from begining all classes must be ballanced in all ways to stand as at least 2 roles . example bard with full heal build from begining need to be same power as priest heal , same hunter dps with mage dps , priest dps , fighter dps , etc ...

[lofty dew]

there arent builds
you just play the class and use its swiss army knife of busted tools

i guess eventually there will be 'builds' in like one more year of dev time

but in reality the concept of 'playstyle' is mostly a meme

[final hound]

i get it , sadly u have right . but still i hope for healing bard , teleporting rogue mage and other stuff like shapeshifting fighter who cant be shamefull on battlefield as bard is now . as i say right now bard is just mana potion 😄

[lofty dew]

bard is a CC god, has great damage
Menacing melody basically breaks the game, so does the movespeed they bring

the mana is the least powerful thing about the kit in pvp

lovely serenade is giving THIRTY PERCENT mitigation bonus right now

[final hound]

i talk about pve not pvp

[lofty dew]

marionette...is also broken? doesnt seem to be able to be broken by cc breaks

might be a bug

[final hound]

its stun what any dmg break

[lofty dew]

in pve as well, menacing melody + constant other damage buff kinda breaks the games math

[final hound]

any hunter or figther outdmg u 10 times , they have ccs as well , whats make bard so special ? 😄

i get it in pvp scenario , but now when just alpha its too early talking about pvp when we dont have proper pve gameplay on 😄

[lofty dew]

i had something typed out but i realized its just silly

im gonna just keep letting people think bard sucks

so i can abuse this broken ass class

[shy dragon]

Bard is too strong. It needs tuning.

[final hound]

its not about nerfing , its about buffing other classes 🙂 i dont know if its normal for AoC soling blue mobs under half level what ure class has

[shy dragon]

But they're giving it odd optimization issues where the choices are things like, "I only need 1 tick of shielding dance to get 5 resonance stacks with flourish."

[final hound]

its just bugs what makes sthem strong and pople exploit it ...

[shy dragon]

Or 1 tick of menacing dance to get a stack of shaken that lasts the initial duration rather than having the duration reduced if the full spell isn't channeled

I think these'll get hashed out with fixes and will automatically put bard in a fair spot

[final hound]

i try play him as pure dps solo , party , full healer and combination in pve. only think when i feel special is i can do all stuffs what other clasess cant but halfway so for party play its good but can i be a healer instead priest ? no . can i be main dps instead hunter ? no . so just walking trough battlefield and fiddle my violin and dance on melody of causality ...

i know i know i pick support role and hope 25 lvl second class makes me outstanding healer or proper dps , maybe tank who knows 😄

[marsh coral]

Ssshhh...

[lofty dew]

you're 100% correct
why do i keep yapping in here

[versed viper]

the point of Bard is support not tank or heal or dps. Have you never played a game with a class like this? You offer mana buffs yes but also heal done buffs, damage buffs which are nice, a lot of super useful CC that in fights with lots of mobs are essential when used at the right times, nice shields, yes some nice DPS as well. You have an insane toolkit that makes every second of every situation easier and smoother if played right.

A good Bard is insane in a group compared to no Bard or a bad Bard

[echo cape]

2 bards kept me (and group) alive at 23 in 2nd floor of carphin with 5-8 mobs at a time so yes bards are great and aren’t just for mana

[shy dragon]

A well played bard can main heal a PvE group when it's smooth but can't respond to "oh shit moments"

And I will continue to die on the hill of cathartic is the sub-optimal choice over cheerful when it comes to healing 🤣

[tawdry lichen]

has anyone tried fighter with sword and board? just wondering

[shy dragon]

Edit: has a hard time responding to "oh shit moments" not that they cant

[lofty dew]

I keybind shield on any class I play. its just really good to flex to in pvp

annoying to swap back without macros, but its useful as hell

[versed viper]

I mean that's fine, Bards aren't meant to main or even off-heal. They are awesome and do a ton of things, just not that and that's ok

[shy dragon]

Absolutely. I think the gripes people have about the power of a bard will go down once respeccing on the fly disappears.

They're strong because respeccing is allowed.

[versed viper]

yea definitely that and honestly I think the balance is off cause it's early

plus people need to play with the class more to realize it's strengths. I think being a good Bard isn't as straightforward as other classes

I want a Bard for so many other things and heals isn't it

We have Clerics, eventually we'll have Summoners to help, Bard does a ton of cool stuff all in one kit that nobody else does

[shy dragon]

Im most concerned about what theyll do about build diversity later. The community isn't very... welcoming of out of the box thinking at times.

[versed viper]

a minority of people maybe, I think most players following Ashes are looking forward to the variety and diversity the system brings. And once people realize they're locked into a build and switching isn't easy we'll see more variety

the idea of min/maxing builds comes from games where you can switch and be perfect for every situation

[late linden]

isnt all kits on all characters still missing like 75% to 50% of the remaining kit. wich might even be starting skills that we are missing?

[versed viper]

when you can't do that, you pick a build and accept you're not perfect at some stuff

[shy dragon]

That's why it's a concern and not a complaint 😁

[versed viper]

yea

[shy dragon]

I've had my fair share of, "Mana" complaints when people should be resting between pulls themselves. It'll be less of a concern at higher level play

[versed viper]

well some of that is gameplay too

using auto attack chains properly

[lofty dew]

i think if there are actual tools for build diversity in the game then its cool
but until then you mostly just use the tools available to you, as you need them, moment to moment

[crystal wyvern]

We are just at the beginning of this journey.

[echo cape]

You can easily solo mobs on tank once you’re higher

Stick with it good sir

[warm sphinx]

While you may be right, if a class doesn't feel good to start you will have reduced engagement. It will need work for early levels to retain people.

[warm sphinx]

All games are going to have metas built around them. It's a difficult act to balance especially considering pvp and pve need to be spun plates together

[red walrus]

do vassal nodes have their own Mayor or leadership role?

[lost heath]

👀❤️

[warm sphinx]

We're all doing our part!

https://tenor.com/view/im-doing-my-part-dogecoin-starship-troopers-dedcel-doge-to-the-moon-gif-21222005

[odd hedge]

Agreed; once on the fly respeccing is gone it will all change IMO

[fathom bridge]

you haven't tried pvp have you? no one can escape you

[charred seal]

I am sure that the game will have a meta, I'm just not certain that it will be achievable on every node or server, if the right augments, gear, POIs etc are not discovered/developed.

[silk relic]

to what degree are the base archtypes complete? like are these just placeholders or any info on when they get more stuff?

[maiden hearth]

Do we know when secondary archetype will come?

I really want to try Bard/Summoner, I’m imagining that it’s going to be ghost instruments playing different song buffs

[sweet parrot]

The Cleric/Summoner will go something like this

[torn arch]

I want to try summoner so bad already

[warm sphinx]

That is an interesting point...so wouldn't that mean each server will potentially have a different meta? Was there mention of nodes losing facilities at any point, because if not I find that scenario hard to believe consistently

[jolly light]

Someone saw the huge nerf on fortify (tank) + iron aura ? how do people feel it in game ?

[loud birch]

Active block change is the big issue that makes tanking feel like ass.

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/63761/tanking-felt-really-bad-this-weekend-and-did-not-have-fun-here-is-why#latest

[jolly light]

i see thanks for the info on block lol. Apparently iron aura 10% => 2% might be a bug ok, but Fortify went from 40% to 20% ? and crit also went from 15% to 10%? Is there a patch note mentioning those changes ? thanks 😄

[loud birch]

I don't know as I'm not really fixated on the numbers, as they're irrelevant at this point of the game, at least IMHO.
Numbers can be tuned whenever, but it doesn't really affect the gameplay loop.

With that said, 40% was a lot. If you combo that with the spell that maxes out your grit, that's too much mitigation, let's be real. Plus raising your shield? Yeah, you're not dying, unless Steven himself types the command

[jolly light]

Alright that make sense

[rugged mauve]

buff the tank !!!, reason:

• tank got exp debt first, because they are first to die, lose glint, slow level cause more death than other classes
• tank literally cant solo anything, cause other class can kite/range with their damage skill
• tank took gear durability than any class (repair is making tank poor)
• if already one tank on grinding spot party, another tank will be excluded, cause one tank is enough, better add more dps/bard/healer to the party

[loud birch]

The second one is gear / skill issue tbh

[rugged mauve]

well tank is not meant to do damage, that why in a lot other MMORPG tank & healer is slow level, but the demand is high for party/raid. About gear/skill issue i dont want to argue, because its both valid and invalid statement in same time

[loud birch]

I have no issue solo killing 1* mobs 1-2 levels above me ( 17). You need to talent the crit on pulverize, and mobs will melt.

[rugged mauve]

that why im using word "literally", yes everyone can solo kill any mobs +1 ~ +3 their level, but compare eficiency and resource uses (time / apm ) its far less when compare with DPS class in same gear and same player skill. well we all fact know tank or healer is not mean to do dps, so there no need contemplate this issue.

[late linden]

no these nerfs are in effect. was so when i was playing tank this weekend

but the key issue to tank is that damage is lackluster + tanking is lackluster. there is no reason u cant tank on any other class like a fighter when it does 3-4-5x the damage overall. if the tank had overall sustaining higher magic defence + armor then other classes as a passive. its never gonna be functionable. even from level 1 to at level 50. reason it works past 6 - 10 is due to the fact that other classes are able to keep tank alive. but as a class in itself it shouldnt be so weak. it doesnt change that people complain and then say its ok past x level etc. the key issues are present. it needs to be changed if the game is ever gonna make tanking work.
also the way blocking works currently is fine. but the lack overall of defencives and block damage reduction is kinda meh atm. simple fixes like these. and posibly when u auto block it costs 0 stam might fix alot of these issues. but its up to steven and his crew to make the tank viable. and currently it is "viable in alpha" but its in a really Really Bad spot. and any other class just outperforms it due to how mechanics work.
anyways thats my tank on the state of tank. take it or leave it. all opinions are valid to each persons viewpoint.

[austere sable]

Opinions on BIS range weapon(s) to go with greatsword for a dps/heal hybrid Cleric?

[frozen peak]

Yeah, I'm very hesitant to believe any of this at higher levels. at 20, the only functional MT is tank. @late linden

Fighters die way too fast at 20+ ime. Again, your experience completely contradicts mine lol. Tanks are GOATs for a hard grinding xp group.

That's my level 20 cleric experience

[clear adder]

Yeah anything 20+ requires a tank

Every other class just gets dogged on with higher level content/bosses

[frozen peak]

Even at level 12+ doing minos, Tanks were great to have to xp effectively. Once you hit 10-12 and get some gear I think your experience will change.

Also, not sure your past MMO experience, but I never got the sense that the devs care about class homogenization. In most old school MMOs, some classes suck to level (e.g., cleric/warrior/rogue in classic EQ), but they are highly desirable for group content. I'm not saying they should copy those playbooks, but the other side of the coin is something like GW2 where there's not much class distinction.

[charred seal]

It isn't so much that, but what if a certain biome has no level6 node, any item or material that requires a fully developed node in that biome or associated POI wont exist on that server. What if no one develops a religion associated with a certain God. Potentially a "Dark Priest" or "Druid Priest" build will be impossible without the appropriate religious augments.

[warm sphinx]

Right, so on that server the meta would be sculpted around what's available

[charred seal]

Potentially, it might be even each node. I'm struggling to wrap my head around it, but if you are deadly enemies of a node you really are not going to have access to their end game "Meta". I don't think the stuff gathered from the FFA zone is going to be available in sufficient quantity to be considered a meta. And that is before we even get into Artifacts.

[warm sphinx]

I kind of like the dynamic, but I'm curious if the player base will collectively push back to avoid it or roll over and accept it

I can see where it would definitely get to be a sour experience for people not fully understanding the risk

[charred seal]

I think generally players like no meta, maybe I am a rebel, but I like not being told what I have to do.

[warm sphinx]

Big same. Just want to be sure the kits available don't make gravitation to certain choices too heavy

We shall see :)

[vivid juniper]

I'd really like to see tanks having a more comfortable low man / solo experiance OR have fighters the ability to pull threat ( when you don't have a tank ). I find playing tank very fun and as someone who is very experianced in tanking and MMOs havinga good tank can make things not only go smoothly, but go 5-10x faster / more efficently. The downside is they do very little damage so much less damage that its really difficult to do anything solo or duo even with a cleric due to how slow things go, so It would be nice to address this in some way perhaps secondary archtypes can help out. Similar with fighter, its very strong has good damage and self sustain, but when you can't find a tank and still want to make a party fighter is tanky enough to sustain almost as many monsters as tank is with the right healer and interupting correct skills from enemies, however, it can be hard to hold threat. I notice when my healer is healing me dispite doing the most damage the clerics keep pulling threat which makes it impossible to pull big groups of monsters because everything jsut aggros on cleric to due to "healing aggro" or something strange. I really don't like this mechanic

[echo cape]

Might just need to wait for subspecs, but I’ve been able to solo 1 * mobs since like level 16 which is surprisingly good xp

Now at 25 I can solo 2 2* level 29 Minos

Meaning it gets better

[frozen peak]

Heh, my experience as the cleric, I hated having fighters in my group. Y'all just facetank mob damage and end up requiring more babysitting than the Tank.

But yeah, Tanks become incredible (Bigge was a baller in Carphin Tower) once you hit the right levels + gear.

[echo cape]

/salute

[glacial grove]

oh my god THIS. fighters literally are a nightmare for clerics. i dont know how or why they take so much damage but im constantly healing them lol

[frozen peak]

Yeah, it was getting so bad our groups would only look for mages/rangers for DPS lol

[glacial grove]

fighters should get their own class specific tutorial on character creation for how to dodge and block, haha

[frozen peak]

It just felt like the meta was whirlwind the mob and let the cleric figure out the rest

[clear adder]

Biggest issue IMHO right now is that dodging and blocking doesn’t do a ton

Mobs will hit you right through a dodge and block

[glacial grove]

cleric is super stressful in ashes too. i dont think people realize how much of a job it actually is. so many mobs have random mechanics, aoe's, etc that you literally are on your toes 99% of the time

[clear adder]

They’ll queue that attack up and you can run infinitely far away, and it’ll still wack you

[glacial grove]

i love it though, it really separates the good clerics from the bad. its very very noticable when you have a cleric who knows what they are doing

[frozen peak]

Coming from EQ cleric, I absolutely loved the rush, but I can totally see some people not wanting to sign up for it. (solo healing a group w/ just 1 bard + 1 cleric felt super good)

[clear adder]

Especially the bears

[glacial grove]

but definitely not a playstyle for everyone. people who want to roll cleric main archtype for pvp in the future will have to be a healer early on and probably realize its not for them lol.

[glacial grove]

some places solo healing isnt too bad, but tower of carphin things get dicey real fast and having 2 clerics made such a difference. especially with the zombies with their green crap that blocks any healing, so you need to purify them first before healing which is critical time to get that heal off

not to mention people love to just stand in the puddles 😦 lol

[frozen peak]

Heh, I solo healed Bigge's group in Carphin for a good while, though they were pretty experienced and I was the noob. But yeah, I see the meta staying at 1 dedicated healer to stack DPS.

Because with enough gear + meta game knowledge, it's very possible.

[glacial grove]

if you are doing pulls of 2-4 you can manage with a single cleric, but once you start pulling more than that especially with some of the mage mobs its like playing piano trying to keep everyone alive

[frozen peak]

Heh, i'll try to clip my video of the carphin tower farm, Bigge was pulling 6-8 mobs usually

[glacial grove]

99% of my skill bar is AOE heals lol

glad they made resplendant beam better, love that skill

[frozen peak]

Heh, the improved mend skills make a lot of stuff very possible. I'd just keep pumping Tank with mend, flash cure the DPS, beam, flare/wave

and keep the 2 HoTs on tank

[glacial grove]

mend is on my 1 slot, i dont think i ever stop clicking it even off cooldown. makes me jealous thoug the dps just get to relax and kill stuff. one thing i definitely need is another magic weapon. i got a blue 2h great spellsword from carphin that helped a ton just nearly impossible to find something for my main weapon. been having terrible luck with drops. citadel seems to drop a lot of good caster gear though so going to give that a try come the weekend

[echo cape]

Ya can do 6-8 upper floor of carphin starting at 22 probably but as the tank you need to know when to LOS the mobs up there

[glacial grove]

you use book, wand/focus, or something else on your cleric?

[frozen peak]

hell ya, I got the blue 300+ magic book from highway, then was rocking a decent 1h magic sword + focus

[glacial grove]

300+ book from highway? god damn. lol

[clear adder]

They go up way higher with rarity

[echo cape]

And just spam the aoe pulse / taunts, use grapple to pull mobs and position them properly.

Those mobs naturally move backwards so you position them to move back into columns/walls to make it better

[clear adder]

At level 10 crafting you can make gear with relative ease over 500-600 power

[glacial grove]

this is the one from carphin. i just dont have a 2nd magic weapon so definitely that would help a ton with healing

[echo cape]

Yeah I’m focusing on crafting next two weekends!!

Maybe do a 1-10 run

[glacial grove]

im holding off till dec 20th to work on long term sort of skills 😦

[frozen peak]

Oh sorry, I was using a 1h scepter (Seraphin, off the Hiero?) + focus

[glacial grove]

really want to get hunting to 10, some amazing mounts out there in the world

if you have apprentice hunting and get the animal, then sell it to someone else, can they process it to a pet at any skill level or do they also need to have high enough hunting?

[glacial grove]

oh yea that scepter is nice. i actually want to go back and get that now that i can use it. its pretty common too shockingly for how good it is

[frozen peak]

I believe they need to have Animal Husbandry skill high enough

[glacial grove]

ahhh darn, there goes my plan to sell animals 🙂 haha

[frozen peak]

to tame those wild looking mounts (looking at those zebra raptors near citadel)

[glacial grove]

yea to tame them absolutely but if you sell someone the tamed mount i wonder if they can just spend the money to process it at the station

[frozen peak]

oh, maybe i'm just using terms incorrectly, you collect the "animal" with hunting, but thought you "tamed" it with husbrandry for mounts

[glacial grove]

ahhh! okay didnt realize it was two separate skills, that makes sense then

[frozen peak]

I did a couple bears/wolves at the husbandry station (looks like a small petting corral)

[glacial grove]

like the black wolfs in seph just look like they could be fast

there is a youtube video showing a ton of different mount types and comparing them, its from like 3 years ago so not sure how much as changed but people who love collecting mounts will have a huge gameplay loop alone there

https://youtu.be/BJXsuR9pHzo fun watch in case ya havent seen it

[slender minnow]

which mob drops this in Carphin?

[glacial grove]

so this was up at the top of the tower, where all the enchanted knights/mages were. so we were camping the left side once up get to the top of the stairs and there was a named zombie type i believe was the one that had this

[vivid juniper]

that means ur tank is bad

a tank should have no issue holding threat with intiminating aura + taunt off cooldown

[glacial grove]

even with aggro there are tons of skills that still hit melee regardless. fighters definitely are way squishier so they take a considerable amount of damage. definitely heal them more than any other class

[vivid juniper]

they might be bad too then

[glacial grove]

that is true lol

[vivid juniper]

melee in general is gonna be more difficult

[frozen peak]

yeah, unrelated to tanks IMO. more related to fighters fighting in melee range whereas rangers/mages are all ranged.

[vivid juniper]

definitely true

especially certain blood mages on the west side of the map

[glacial grove]

for fighters its more about keeping an eye on mob skills and moving in/out of range but most of them dont do they. they just keep spinning haha

[vivid juniper]

alot of them have the sacrafice ability

[frozen peak]

it was a narrative i heard from ALL clerics i played with the last 2 weekends. We all hated fighters lol

[vivid juniper]

aoe big damge

I can see that

[frozen peak]

and at the moment (only level 20) I never saw a benefit to having a fighter over mage/ranger

[vivid juniper]

personally I've enjoyed fighter the most but I know its my responsibility to avoid all that shit and cc off cooldown the hard hitting spells

oh fighters do insane damage

[glacial grove]

if you have a group of 1 cleric, 1 tank, 1 bard, and all ranged dps its sooo much easier to heal actually. your aoe circle heal as a cleric heals way more with only the tank in it as well

[vivid juniper]

probably the highest dps spec

and really good status effects

[glacial grove]

fighter looks amazing tbh

its so noticable their dps

we had two fighters in a group and were shredding things

definitely pros and cons 🙂

[vivid juniper]

ranged dps is def more optimal in general but if your fighter is good avoids aoes and helps cc stuff its invaluable

[slender minnow]

Gotcha so just the normal ones. Thanks

[frozen peak]

I get that, I look forward to grouping with these skilled fighters in the future lol

[glacial grove]

curious to see how rogue is going to be in melee range too

since they will probably be squishier than fighters

hopefully they have some stuns and silences though to help offset some of the mob skills

[slender minnow]

I think the issue is how are they different then fighter

They have stealth and fighter has ?

[glacial grove]

have they released anything in regards to the rogue skillset yet?

[slender minnow]

Nope

And I expect this is the issue that they are having and that is why it’s not out yet

And how do they differ form ranger with camouflage

Got to make it’s own thing and I am guessing it’s crossing over both of them too much

[glacial grove]

ive always enjoyed rogues in most mmos so im excited to see how it turns out. hoping it provides more than just dps and has some helpful utility skills. the positional gameplay of rogues has always been fun since you can get more out of the character by playing well

[vivid juniper]

they said that rogues stealth isn't gonna be actual invisability

thats really lame imo

[glacial grove]

aww thats depressing. rogue/rogue archtypes 100% should have some superior form of stealth. sure maybe the split ones may have some form, but the pure rogues hopefully have something that truely sets them apart

[agile saddle]

Actual invis is a terrible mechanic
It’s never fun

[vivid juniper]

very much disagree

[sweet parrot]

I thought it was great in Dark Age of Camelot, however it kept those classes apart from others to an extent

I would usually be stealth specced and then run with a group and use the stealth mechanics in group combat, but only with friends since the stealth class didn't have any group utility they weren't welcome in pugs

[late linden]

as i said its just at lower levels

[frozen peak]

I read your comments, and you made several ones that extrapolated well beyond low levels.

Hence my skepticism

[late linden]

well ive only had those experiences up to 10. so for me its 1-10 cause i stopped playing tank past that point. its just feedback to what ive experienced

[frozen peak]

I get that, and I'm saying that you might consider rewording your comments. there were some drastic lines such as "from level 1 to 50" or "it needs to be changed if the game is ever gonna make tanking work."

Tanking works fine

[late linden]

what that line means is that if tank sucks at low level its gonna suck to level it up to 50. so alot of people will drop it in general. and just select any other class. and the wording is fine.

[frozen peak]

tanks suck at low level in a lot of MMOs

[late linden]

not as bad as it does in this. and thats just a sad fact. but we will see as game evolves more from alpha. for all we know alot of the current issues are allready fixed in a more up to date version. we could be playing on a older version then what they are allready working on etc. so we just gotta wait and see for now

[agile saddle]

It sucks without gear and levels

Level 15 with full set of gear it feels fine

[frozen peak]

100%--which is in line with a lot of melee/tank experiences compared to say, casters

[agile saddle]

Tank is the most gear reliant archetype
They need to take hits

[late linden]

ye i will say. mage is simple to play rn just due to the fact that frost bolt + spell book combo freezes mob so u can free cast frost bolt and rinse repeat. never get hit and just kill stuff thats like 10 levels higher then u xD

while kiting

[frozen peak]

i think it's just my pet peeve to hear people play a single class from 1-10 and go on to prescribe sweeping changes. at this point in the game cycle the best we can do is communicate our experience playing within a specific set of confines and trust that the devs will flesh stuff out over the next 3+ years

[late linden]

so your saying a low levels experience does not matter?

[frozen peak]

I think your low level experience is super valuable!

[late linden]

i feel if a class feels awfull to play at lower levels. it might get better at higher levels but it definitly needs to get tweaked at lower levels so its more fun to acctually reach and continue to play the class at higher levels

[frozen peak]

Yeah, and you had quite a few higher level tanks comment earlier saying that they kick serious butt just a little higher than you made it

I hope you stick with it though, Tanks are super invaluable (especially good ones)

[late linden]

prolly not in the alpha this phase. maybe after whipe on 20th. just due to wanting to test all classes up to atleast 10 so i can get a feel for each class then select the one i wanna stick with after whipe

[warm sphinx]

Definitely clear, but so is player retention. It's not just this game, but most MMOs where tanking is shyed away from due to the responsibility that being one holds in a group setting. And even when it's not your fault, the gut reaction is to look at a tank

Because they are the first to fall

[charred seal]

I think you should give the Developers more credit. They are going to take players recommendations in context. No need to let the lowbies vex you!

[warm sphinx]

So if it's not even fun to use to begin with, unless you're really invested in the role, you're getting minimal payoff

[late linden]

or even losses xD but thats just how the game death mechanic is really punishing 😄

[frozen peak]

You can't lose levels here, this is baby stuff

[warm sphinx]

A lot of the pain expressed is from this game deviating from modern MMO mechanics in a lot of ways

[late linden]

no but u can definitly loose cash. and broken gear doesnt help xD

[frozen peak]

I welcome this modern old school revivalism period

[warm sphinx]

Some of the complaints will soften once some knowledge of the mechanics and refinement of money making mechanics

[late linden]

its nice and bad in many ways. its different from the usual. but it can also be bad if its not enjoyable. currently its enjoyable 🙂

[warm sphinx]

Current copper shortages and unreliable storage make pre Journeyman money making awful

[late linden]

this so true

[warm sphinx]

Those will be worked out in due time though, I'm confident

[frozen peak]

When i looked at the class kits and noticed that you really start coming into your own at 12+, I ditched my original plans to play other classes. Really glad I did, as I got to have a better feel for the current cleric kit (and how badass it feels at 20).

[warm sphinx]

As long as it learns from its past shortcomings I'd agree

[charred seal]

I think 1-10 is all about solo play, I found the tank one of the better solo classes 1-10. That 10%min heal is really nice, and with the right weapon/skills combo they do well in the damage/protection ratio. I also think people are going to have to relearn MMOs. I see everyone pulling mobs like crazy, when you are in a group, the tank should be the only one pulling, once they get the nod from the healer, and you tip your tank for repairs. People are used to cheesy super easy group content in MMOs, that is not going to be the case here.

[warm sphinx]

Look, coming from FFXIV, I get the "it gets better" notion

[frozen peak]

Figure i'll have enough time to dink around next year

[warm sphinx]

I mean, managed pulls is tanking basics. If your DPS wants to pull they can die if they are obnoxious about it

[frozen peak]

I will say, I do hope there are opportunities for other classes to be "pullers". ATM the meta seems to be the Tank running around and prox aggro'ing everything and balling them up.

[charred seal]

I am a lifelong healer, I share a tank's pain, your problems are my problems.

[warm sphinx]

I'll have to try another class, but it's painfully slow for solo tank at lower levels. Sure they survive but it's just a bit agonizing

[warm sphinx]

God I hope you're my healer sometime lmao.

Also, the fact about dying is that without a means of fast travel, you either risk losing your drops to death before sale, or you likely lose some of your party looking for that grind (purely at a leveling perspective, raiding is obviously very different)

Sure you don't lose levels and durability loss isn't the harshest I've seen, but I've lost a 100 glint drop boss drop in about 3-4 deaths

[frozen peak]

Heh, yeah, I joined an oakenkeep group a tad overlevelled for the area. Didn't die once in 2 hours and walked away with 1g+ in glint. That's when i realized it's hard to make money dying.

[vivid juniper]

that is not true btw, at higher lvls you NEED threat or shits gonna one shot people or mobs are gonna get aggroed on healers randomly

[tidal token]

Idk guys. Tanking in this game easy af. If u can not solo it is 100% skill issue in my opinion. Holding agro? Its a joke, you can play tank literally with 1 hand xD. Im only 20 lvl, but was playing solo almost on every lvl,you need just to find correct spot and yes u can easily kill mobs with 1star pretty much at every lvl from start. Yes it is not so fast as other classes but in wich mmo tank farming better then mage for example? The main problem of tanks here is a random parties and mostly mages who pulling the whole area with aoe xD

[warm sphinx]

In any of this discussion I'm not talking about just me. I'm talking about those less versed or unfamiliar with the skillset it takes and get demotivated. Game's going to lose money if they can't hold subscribers past level 5

[frozen peak]

I hear that, but I also think this is going to be a rough transition for folks who didn't grow up on UO/EQ/AC/Etc.

[warm sphinx]

One stars give a fraction of what 3* do, and you'll get abandoned not pushing in a group

[warm sphinx]

Yeah I can get behind that 100%. Just don't want the game to die due to the times

[vivid juniper]

Yeah I dont like 25% of ur stuff going into the void and storing your items is always at minimum 5-10 minutes run it really makes things feel slow

I dont see any positive side to 25% dissappearing

Just drop 50% of ur mats and allow it all to be recoveraeble

[warm sphinx]

I'd be fine with loot disappearing if I didn't feel like my storage was a gamble! XD

Loss is a great motivator. Or demotivator

In the world we live in right now, it is usually the latter

And a game's objective is to not relay reality. It's an escape after all

[frozen peak]

Something that made corpse runs much more feasible in past games was that you could usually find a class to drag your corpse to somewhere safe. At the moment, if we full wipe somewhere it's usually RIP (especially with the short corpse timers).

Which makes that mat/glint loss feel extra bad

[warm sphinx]

AND!

If you loot a party member's body, the goods are considered stolen and can't be traded

[frozen peak]

heh, think that one's a bug, or maybe our servers aren't fully updated

[warm sphinx]

Personal experience after fetching DPS's bodies from an area we got overwhelmed

[frozen peak]

know PTR is supposed be able to loot group bodies

[warm sphinx]

Hopefully it is a bug. I got marked as a CRIMINAL

lol

Kind of a fine line though because that's definitely potential scam territory

Butchering your party to run off with the goods definitely seems like something that would be allowed in this game

[frozen peak]

yeah, even something like an old school /consent for group members would be fine

[charred seal]

I'm not really testing group leveling right now. First of all I hate it, it is so boring, and second, we are wiping in 4 weeks so no point. I'm just trying to fool around with the crafting system to see which crafts are easiest to focus, to pick up and which help levelling more. I'm at the point where I know a wand is essential to level a cleric, so making a good one (rather than hoping one drops) might be a good move. That and crafting food and healing/mana salves. Get the path to 10 for your desired class(es) established. If I need to join the lemmings to get XP in the future, then I can always do that, but any time I can avoid it, I will.

[warm sphinx]

See like that statement there

"I know I need a wand to level"

[frozen peak]

Glad I group levelled to 20

[warm sphinx]

But I totally get that Swift. Can be obnoxious dealing with pugs especially as a healer

[frozen peak]

Everyone should suffer as i did

[warm sphinx]

Minor pet peeve in the alpha on that note Swift

[charred seal]

Damn socialist!

[warm sphinx]

Why the heck do the ingredients sell more to the vendors than the finished product??

[frozen peak]

I'm kidding, but I will say that I suffered so others don't have to: you don't need a wand to level cleric effectively

[warm sphinx]

As a crafthead in other MMOs this makes me megasad

[charred seal]

From an economic standpoint because we are only testing artisanship for personal consumption until the economy is implemented. The price is low at the vendors, so that people buy the items to test them. If the the NPC code runs off a single price and a margin, the sell price is always going to be higher than the buy price, and is not going to work for both crafters selling excess and lots of adventurers buying stuff to test it.

[warm sphinx]

Oh yeah, the priorities are set and I get that. But at least give me more than 1 copper for what I've invested 25+ into making lol

(Mana salve and blueberry compote)

But I'm sure it'll get adjusted, like I said minor and borderline facticious XD

[tidal token]

we talkin about solo tank lvling, so u just want to farm 1 star mobs.

[warm sphinx]

Fair point

[charred seal]

yeah - I'm just saying that it might not be possible or worth fiddling with based on the way vendors work. You might open up an exploit selling something to the vendor then buying it back cheaper.

[warm sphinx]

Either way maybe in the next phase we'll see some adjustment along with the artisan skill trees. There's got to be some basis to begin the economy on, and the NPC vendors would be the place to start with the ingredients you can (or have to) buy

But focusing on the core gameplay of combat is the right first step, probably followed by questing and exploration

[sweet parrot]

bard dancing as their group dies around them

[charred seal]

Phase2 will be fun. I must admit I'm not pulling my weight in this phase. I'm more of a PvEer and I find that whole group grind tedious. I'd rather take twice as long to max level as do it that way. I also have lost my competitive edge over the years, the trophy cabinet is full enough, and the first wave gets mowed down anyway. I'll take it slow and enjoy the journey.

[sweet parrot]

I don't see anything I'd need to test by grinding levels, I got 12 and that gave me one of the top of the skill window abilities and got an entire level just doing some of the artisan commissions

I'm excited for the phase 2 also, sort of ran out of things to do in my free time with some health troubles and it'll be something interesting in downtime from work.

[lofty dew]

meh honestly the biggest reward ive gotten for grinding hard has been losing too much sleep and feeling like shit so I wouldnt stress lmao

[maiden hearth]

Any mage players here?

Just had a chat with my friend and he said shock damage to frozen enemies hits exceptionally hard.

I was wondering if I (bard) do shock on a frozen target would it still work? Or is it a mage only interaction?

[late stirrup]

It should be the same, same with chilling lament

But I'm guessing.

It's the same

At least in status effects

And debuffs on enemy

between mage and bard

[tropic plinth]

Have any of you noticed during the last week end a change into the tank Active block mechanic ?
I found my self unable to Active block passed the second autoattack hit , and i felt the Active block in general less responsive when pressing the right mouse botton.

I dont know if was a bug or intended but i felt very bad to be unable to block untill the autoattack chain ends .

[pine raptor]

In order to maximize tanking or healing ability do you have to select tank/bard/cleric for first archetype or will you still be able to fulfill the roles just as well picking those for the 2nd? I know its not gonna be released for a bit just trying to get info 😄

[marsh iron]

Reminded me of this ||https://youtu.be/eL_vd2Xcqu4?si=g1J3Mi_sMAFDjBpW||

[paper gyro]

It won’t shatter for you.

However, if you as a bard apply burn, chilled, shocked, or frozen to an enemy and the mages effect is based on the attack after those are applied, then the mage can combo off of you.

For example: Shattered is when a mage applies electric to a frozen enemy. If you as a bard freeze an enemy, the mage can electrify and get the shattered damage. But if the mage freezes and you electrify, no shatter occurs.

[maiden hearth]

I see, I see... I continue to be my mage's discord kitten. Got it

[astral island]

Okay okay okay. A lot of talk here about the best class, the balance yadda yadda. But now for the most important question:

Which class is the most AFK? I only PVE to get levels in order to be more comfy in gathering stuff around the world. I don't really care for it and I just wanna watch shows with my legs on the table, pressing tab + q + 1 every now and then. Ranger seems to be okay, but a bit squishy.

[elfin coyote]

The closest thing id say to that is maybe tank or fighter?

[elfin inlet]

Yes, I second that! Tank with a bow, so like a ranger, but not as squishy.

You won't even have to press 1, just tab+q

and sometimes write in global to find a new party

[wraith remnant]

So it slow kills but you won’t die ?

Kinda same as healers but not have to heal? 🙂

[potent lion]

I mean lets be honest none of the classes are good for brain afk farming even if u only want to hit level 10. when you agro the wrong mob u will die and accumulate exp dept.

[warm sphinx]

There have definitely been times where lack of attention has gotten me killed as a tank for taking a buster head on

[wraith remnant]

Ah sadge

I want a braindead class

Is bard or cleric easier for something like this?

like 1 heal/HoT and auto attack?

[potent lion]

I would rather go for some of the range dd and just farm zombies they need like 5 mins to get in attack range 😂😂

[warm sphinx]

They do be shambling especially slow

I don't know if this game will be able to braindead even on the leveling end, at least not efficiently. I guess you could level off mobs below your level with less risk but take more time? But I only know from tank perspective I had to pay attention to what's going on

[wraith remnant]

Thx for info

[frozen peak]

The cleric experience here is much closer to the charm enchanter of ye olde EQ days. it's a wild ride depending on group comp (solo cleric in a full group of DPS with MT--this is gonna be a blast, buckle up). Maybe when Summoner is available they'll offer some more heal support, but for now Cleric is the primary healer, and it's fast paced.

[sweet parrot]

I think my skill window said I had to do the shock damage to trigger an effect in my passives, but shocked target when hit with my Burn from the Fuse ability are burned more strongly

I play a mage but the gif reminded me of seeing a bard dancing while their group was fighting the highwaymen and melting 🙂

[wanton ocean]

an awake bard can take quite a bit of pressure off already

[late linden]

Mages have a passive skill called shatter doing 300% damage on top if target is frozen. Which can be mixed with improved frostbolt for an additonal 150% on shocked target.

Also there are ways to cause shocked burning and chill on same target currently due to how buggy weapon masteries are.

[versed viper]

No definitely not they’re both classes that require you to be busy and pay a lot of attention. Try a ranged dps.

[lofty dew]

Shatter is overtuned
Either needs a coefficient nerf or a cd increase

I'm leaning towards both

[late linden]

not rly

[lofty dew]

You're high

[late linden]

takes like 8 seconds to setup with exception of cone of cold

[lofty dew]

You're serious or what

[sweet parrot]

My fireball hits harder than shatter, I have to hit with icebolt and then a few weapon hits to trigger frozen

[late linden]

yes im serious. its not overtuned. the combination stuff u can do with it tho is overtuned but the shatter damage itself on 1 target is perfectly fine

[lofty dew]

I think you need to read what enchant weapon and weapon trees do again

[late linden]

u mean the thing that only works on allies?

[lofty dew]

It does not have an 8 second setup time

[late linden]

and yes i know what it does

[sweet parrot]

Global complained about the frozen immunity last weekend

[late linden]

u do relise that frozen only works 2 times then its got resistance to be applied again?

[lofty dew]

You can layer it properly and avoid the DR

All it takes is watching the debuffs

The DR is not coded properly yet

[late linden]

ok mate ok. whatever u say mate. based on my view of it. its not overtuned at all. i would like a realistic scenario explained if ur gonna spout what ur thinking. so do explain. how is it overtuned in what combinations so we can get a scenario too see infront of us how its overtuned. and if this is pvp. then pls dont talk cause pvp isnt on the balancing form at all rn concidering its alpha.

[sweet parrot]

I was mostly just referring to the immunity, it cannot apply for a window so I can't see a situation where it's overly effective, I hit for hundreds more with the fireball every time it comes up and if I was patient enough for the other version I guess I could hit for slightly more with the bolts 🙂

[late linden]

its surprising u can say shatter is overtuned when fighter exists btw. fighter just hits their button does 0.8-1.2 sec animations and its instant higher % damage then shatter combo does

mage acctually requires to cast

[sweet parrot]

What's up with rangers, one was nearby lower level than me and would like two or three shots things

[lofty dew]

There is no way you're complaining about fighter in this meta lol

[late linden]

im not complaining im comparing.

[lofty dew]

Easily the last on my list
The game is hard ranged meta in pvp

Mages/supports are king

[late linden]

pvp is not balanced at all. and its not on the "balancing part" atm in alpha. its gonna be unbalanced until game prolly hits beta. and why do u talk about pvp. this games pvp is not like others mmo pvp focus.

[sweet parrot]

Someone was talking about their fighter destroying everything (but clerics) because of mobility and disabling effects

[carmine latch]

cleric is gonna get nerfed so hard im scared 😔

[sweet parrot]

hoo boy I read several things from Steven saying it would have a rock-paper-scissors system where individual classes would never be able to beat their counter, only in groups with similar makeups would there be a sense of balance

[versed viper]

Doubtful. It’s balanced well for groups where you really need the heals. And usually also need a Bard supporting as well.

[carmine latch]

you ever solo a 3 star as a cleric

[glacial grove]

only if its 10 levels under me and even then its a nightmare lol

[sweet parrot]

Though to be fair that was similar to my favorite game, DAoC, where you couldn't fight certain classes all that well solo so it's not bad I guess. I was just thinking I hadn't seen that sort of system since waaay back when all the other recent games make every class a self-supporting standalone.

[carmine latch]

ive been able to solo the 3 stars in highway men at the same level

[versed viper]

Never tried but healers need to be good at surviving. It’s literally the point of the class. So not balanced for solo. Balanced for 8 man parties where damage output is so high sometimes you need a full healer, a bard to buff, cc, shield, occasionally heal, and a summoner to backup heal or backup tank as well

Healers are good solo in most MMOs. Any decent ones at least.

[late linden]

anything that can sustain heal will always be good in pve. especially if its ranged thats just normal

[lofty dew]

Because that's the only content where balance is very relevant for me
Obviously the game isn't balanced or done with tuning
That doesn't mean that discussing it is pointless

[lofty dew]

Maybe if they nerfed spacebar

Currently I would easily place them as the worst

My brain just automatically isn't afraid of them in fights

[glacial grove]

rangers look fun but man as a cleric its a nightmare all their skills go through walls and hit extra crap all the time pulling tons more if they dont position right

[late linden]

unless uve tested all classes up to 25. then u cant really put in a input if something is balanced. thats just the sad state of things. its not to be rude. but ofc u can discuss about it. but u gotta be also up to reciving critisism. and im telling u shatter is not overtuned. nor is fighter. but yes there are unbalanceness in the game. but concidering they are aiming for RPS balance then its always gonna be unbalanced overtuned and undertuned skills. just look at any other mmo out there. and yes reason pvp doesnt matter that much at this point is cause. they should focus on making the pve great for all classes first then fix the issues with servers etc. and look at pvp last. concidering the game isnt target focusing at pvp.

just look at any other mmo that focused hard on pvp and u can see how they are doing today since release. they might not be "dead" but they definitly arent the same anymore. most of them have leaned towards a pve focused gameplay cause they relise too late that pvp will always be "poop" to put it in simple terms.

[versed viper]

What does spacebar do for Fighters

[late linden]

jump by default

[versed viper]

Rangers and also Mages. Both can ruin your day if they’re not smart players

[versed viper]

So what does this mean then lol

[sweet parrot]

I think you can move backwards faster if you spam jump while moving

[late linden]

dunno about fighters. but i do know that backflip on ranger or whatever its called becomes longer if u jump first. thats always been a thing since other mmos

[sweet parrot]

The thing DAoC got right was cannot cast anything if you're being hit with any attack (except a single quickcast spell every 30 seconds, or instants) and mobility increasing things only worked out of combat except a couple classes had a long cooldown Charge

[lofty dew]

Jump kiting and roll jump kiting is too good
And damage is tuned way way way way way too high
So melee inherently is just trash in pvp

[sweet parrot]

So fights could drag out for a lonnnng time

All these games with spells working even when being beat on are just cooldown vs cooldown

[lofty dew]

No bullshit they could cut damage and healing in half in pvp and it would still be wild

[late stirrup]

Yes and Easily if I may add

It was actually 3 levels higher than me too

took 10 minutes but its doable

[sweet parrot]

The fights seem a little more classic MMO to me but I think the Slumber-type effects could be longer 🙂

[lofty dew]

The fights last like 3-5 seconds

[late stirrup]

Jump roll kite auto, Smite, the chains, then aoe heal/damage circle spike for silence, repeat

[sweet parrot]

lol better than Throne and Liberty it's usually over instantly

[late stirrup]

Trip stun silence execute was trash in TnL

[late linden]

is the issue really the damage and skills tho or is it genius gameplay + maybe too little mana cost during the fight?

[sweet parrot]

I did some "pvp" content after joining like a top5 guild or whatever and they were "Ok everyone go go go!" and the enemy had flash wave up so wipe in a second, then we'd wipe them in 1 second repeat

[late stirrup]

With mana weapon, the auto attacks from the shortbow/wand/tome fill that gauge if you buff yourself

[sweet parrot]

non-interruptable spells

too much mobility

[glacial grove]

i do feel like interruptable spells, or at least a chance to, is beneficial

[late stirrup]

We're also Very squishy towards anything with physical damage though. So we need to be mobile

[lofty dew]

Damage is obviously too high
Even with shit gear my BARD can already chunk someone for 70% with dark lullaby

[late stirrup]

If your healer is paying attention, they can silence any caster

[late linden]

id say its a feat that he managed to solo a 3 star. not really unbalanced. he used his kit perfectly.

[late stirrup]

Instantly

[lofty dew]

With menacing melody our rangers were doing 70% of a healers hp just with barrage headshot

[sweet parrot]

The casting classes in the One Game I Loved had maybe two big hits of hp against most melee classes but because no one could jump around the screen rapidly it was ok

[late stirrup]

That phys damage like i said is detrimental to us

If you have a full plate healer then thats where it gets dicey

If youre looking to solo as a cleric, run medium for crits off auto to proc snares and bleeds

If your looking for high heals and high magic dots light

[wraith remnant]

does cons wave apply silence.. when u say Jump roll kite auto..do you use the dodge ability or?

[late stirrup]

Yes

to the dodge

I dont use wave

need to be too close to use it

[wraith remnant]

What does the silence?

[late stirrup]

The range on it is trash

Divine flare

[sweet parrot]

Each side having a couple classes that could mesmerize the enemies for up to a minute unless they used an ability to purge the effect was great, one class on each side could cast Stun and there being three sides aggressive to eachother it was so good

[late stirrup]

into retribution

If you have a melee on that target location it also heals them at the same time

[carmine latch]

yeah thats what i was saying, that should not be possible, thats why im wary of a nerf

[late stirrup]

Taking 10 minutes or more is the drawback

While not having huge dps, the sustain and mobility is great

[carmine latch]

10 minutes compared to not possible for other classes

[wraith remnant]

what gives clerics more mobility?

or just being ranged I guess 😄

[late stirrup]

But I can imagine once i have a heroic or higher weapon, me changing that setiment

[late stirrup]

Ranged and the jumping backwards being normal move speed instead of attacking move speed

Its an obvious move speed increase while your in the air too

[wraith remnant]

Ah ok thats interesting.

[late stirrup]

If they fix that, then soloing a 3 star at 3 levels higher would be balanced

[wraith remnant]

The camera thing where u can press S and it makes you walk forward is kinda cool-unlocked camera option

[late stirrup]

Thats normal in tab target games tho?

[wraith remnant]

maybe you havent seen it idk, i havent seen it before

[late linden]

last i played FF14 u could do that. which is like 5+ years ago

so its quite comon thing

[late stirrup]

Do you mean like rotating the camera and walking with s and attacking the targeted enemy while technically its infront of the player but your paying attention to whats behind you so you dont walk into another enemy?

[versed viper]

Not in most Western MMOs it’s not. Aside from FFXIV where I think most people were unfamiliar with it Tera in 2012 did it and that’s it I think

[late linden]

yep ive done that in ff14

[wraith remnant]

It would just require a bit more skill tbh because u can technically do all that while turning back and forth etc

[late linden]

altho in ff14 it usualy turns ur char when u attack but u can keep pressing S to turn back

[late stirrup]

oh for sure, but why would clerics get nerfed for skilled players doing what they do best?

[wraith remnant]

yea we don't have auto face

[late linden]

i mean anyone with good mouse movements and not playing in shit action mode can do the same. by just flipping their mouse

u dont need to free camera look

[wraith remnant]

true

I kinda like locking down RMB tho ;/

need to adapt I guess

[late stirrup]

I am a RMB held kind of person

[late linden]

i mean i barely move with Wasd anyways i move mostly iwth mouse only by holding both buttons down

[late stirrup]

Gotta swivel too much in pvx games

[late linden]

frees up alot of unececary movement

[late stirrup]

Yeah, healers cant do that

[wraith remnant]

my mouse too slow until they add more sens

[late stirrup]

too much clicking player names

[late linden]

windows settings or mouse program settings to increase ur sens / dpi etc

[wraith remnant]

It's maxed, i use an old mouse 400 dpi 😛

[late stirrup]

Got a g502 logi years ago and havent gone back

[late linden]

u can download any software for mouse and fake the mouse in the software and run it.

[late stirrup]

5 side buttons, weights inside the mouse, unlockable scroll wheel for flicking wheel

[wraith remnant]

Oh that's interesting never knew that

[late linden]

razer naga here. simple mmo mouse. and i can swap the side buttons to 6 or 2 instead of 12

[late stirrup]

See i wanted a naga, but it didnt have a place to rest my thumb without rubbing the mousepad

[late linden]

the thumb is used for the 12 buttons on the side

[late stirrup]

the g502 has a flange to rest it downwards, and i know that. I have 3 thumb buttons, and two extra buttons next to LMB

one i use for target self and the other is tab target

[wanton ocean]

unlockable scrollwheel is the most under-rated mouse feature

[late stirrup]

Yes

[late linden]

dont think u relise how good this can be in certain games

[late stirrup]

😄

And it basically has a reversed clutch too, so while its in free spin you can snipe a spot

When distance Aoe spells use scroll wheel for targeting back in archeAge, thats what id do for precision targets

Wild

[late linden]

i used to know someone in ff14 that used scroll wheel for targeting members for healing etc in raids. 8 man which worked fine. for scroll up and down. he did down for party 2 group and up for party 1

i asked him once what he did in the 24 man raids. when 6 groups was present he said. "group 1and2 in my group section is mine. rest is dead weight xD i laughed cause he wasnt technicly wrong

[late stirrup]

If you have more than two groups, and only 1 healer. Then what is you doing bby?

[late linden]

that playstyle prolly wouldnt work in this game. it worked in ff14 for him tho. im just saying he did that there. and he still does too this day

[late stirrup]

It might tbh, although camera zoom is a little wacky when you get inside buildings at HH atm. but in the open world, that would probably be a really good thing to try out for most healers

[late linden]

due to roof placements etc?

[late stirrup]

Being able to tab target party members without lifting mouse from location of enemy or removing fingers from triggered heal/skill aoe buttons for immediate response

[late stirrup]

Walls and roofs with holes and whatnot make the camera zoom outside of building essentially making targeting a shit show

[late linden]

ye usualy to avoid that u find the right zoom where it doesnt do that and u stick to that in that area. but its posible the area is designed in that way to not make the whole "overview" heal style viable 100% there

[late stirrup]

You can essentially post up in a building, zoom camera through a crack and watch for players on the other side

[late linden]

i prefer if camera allows u too zoom out to max. and u can like clip see trough roofs etc like they do in certain strategy games etc. to avoid roofs or walls being an issue.

[late stirrup]

Multi level buildings in HH wheres theres floors of different enemies makes that hard to use clipping like say the sims

[late linden]

i get that. thats fine. im just saying. my prefered camera style is full zoom out with that function

[visual gorge]

Does anyone know if the Ranger will have more skills? Or if a skill rework is already planned?

[late stirrup]

but if theres a hole in the room you can cast distanced abilities on unsuspecting players essentially gaining the advantage on different floors or outside of walls atm, The only line of sight abilities are Auto attack and instant cast abilities

[charred seal]

I use a Razer Tarturus keypad. It has a direction gamepad control under the left thumb. Still use the mouse to change direction, but you can strafe, forward and back, while using the mouse for mouseover healing or changing target.

[late linden]

currently each class only has access to like 25-50% of their kit

[late stirrup]

Mine broke 😭

I have the OG version

Tab above the directional pad, space bar under, and 15 buttons makes gaming op

[late linden]

i wonder what skills other then current starting skills we might get on beta tbh XD

[late stirrup]

not to mention were only at 25 of 50 levels

[late linden]

imagine a full frost build for mage or full fire build not just fireball frostbolt lightning strike etc

[charred seal]

Mine had its USB connector chewed by a dog, I have it fixed but I don't dare unplug it.

[late stirrup]

Then theres going to be 2nd archetype too

[late stirrup]

damn

[charred seal]

I completely understand your sorrow, I was without it for about a day before I tried to fix it and couldn't live without it. On the bright side - Christmas is coming.

[late linden]

im really curious what steven is planning to use as gaming equipment keyboard mouse etc

[late stirrup]

.@stevejs Whats your optimal Computer equipment on your desk for playing mmos

xD

[late linden]

i mean seriously tho. it kinda matters. look at blizzard devs for wow they were playing using a tablet for gods sakes. look at ff14 head lead dev he plays black mage in high end raiding. hardest class to perform with in raiding enviorment. so i am a bit curious how stevens layout will be. concidering it kinda matters to know that the main dev lead is not using something like a tablet. that would be terrible

[sweet parrot]

This is how the entire school played Starsiege: Tribes back when I installed it on the school district's servers to autoinstall on startup for all computers and Mr. Davis our girl's C-Team basketball coach (his daughter was on the team) who also did "computers" for the entire school district couldn't figure out how to get rid of it:

[late linden]

lol

be funny if someone online responded too that and said "hey thats me" xD

[sweet parrot]

They gave up after a week of saying don't play it when we still finished our work, so let us play in class if we were done with the semester's work already and we were allowed up to 2 hours after school.

[late linden]

must have been a good motivator to go back to school lmao

[sweet parrot]

Probably saw it as a good motivator to do our homework half the kids probably didn't have computers at home

[late linden]

if its the 90s early 2000s then ye

[sweet parrot]

Oh wait 90s, probably a lot more I think we were an exception having one

[charred seal]

It goes back even further to the days of Zork!

[late linden]

i mean we had a computer since 1992. was cmd games etc. but we had a proper windows pc back in early 1996

[charred seal]

I got you beat. I got banned from computer class because I wrote a torpedo game on the school commadore64, and the entire class played it in their time slot, instead of doing their work.

[sweet parrot]

My dad was an electrician in the Navy and was an early adopter for home computing so we had the best he could afford since the early 80s

[late linden]

xD

[sweet parrot]

Ha, Mr. Davis loved me I made a banner flash animation for the school district as part of our semester assignments and finished the whole semester in the first week.

[glacial grove]

I still miss MUDs, huge part of my childhood. Still have a character on realms.reichel.net:4000 (abyssmal realms) from when i was like 11 years old

[sweet parrot]

We had a neighborhood BB game I remember the neighbor kid coming over and dialing up to from our computer to show me, didn't play MUDs again until NewMoon in the late 90s early 2000s and then Discworld 2019-2022

Oh no forgot to install MUSHclient on the new pc to login and keep my wizzard alive

Aww lost my Fool but still have the main

[glacial grove]

always thought it was so cool having gear with colored names haha. definitely brings back a lot of good memories

[sweet parrot]

I miss when NewMoon MUD was busy back in like 2000, played as a Damaran priest so we would have events on like Halloween and my role was largely digging through the library at the temple with tons of scrolls and books trying to find vague lore hints about how to beat a lich or evil skeleton that was running around killing everyone.

[soft grotto]

Where do you see we're getting more besides second archtype?

[late linden]

?

[soft grotto]

"currently each class only has access to like 26-50% of their kit" Where have you seen we're missing half our kit?

[late linden]

i mean. have u looked at the ranger kit and compared it to the ranger reveal video? or any similar class videos. u can see that mostly 25-50% of the kit is all we currently have. not to mention they might still add or remove stuff etc.

[sweet parrot]

25 more levels to go to max?

[late linden]

this too

[soft grotto]

Ah ok cool, just wanted to check I hadn't missed an announcement of some sort 🙂

[late linden]

look here 1 sec

this is ranger reveal video from 11 months ago

the current tree looks nothing like that

but as u see there is alot more passives

and it keeps expanding

[sweet parrot]

Ah they did say they reworked trees but I can't* imagine we'd just have the current skills and then 25ish more points to spend that would mean we would basically just have all things on the tree

[late linden]

so my point is. we might only have 25-50% of the kit for the class currently. and we might be getting alot more. just basing it on reveal videos and stuff

sure its old info. but its still not nececarly that we have it all

[cerulean isle]

there is this off the roadmap , take it however you will though as who knows what they actually mean by it

[late linden]

so 50 skills 10 passives etc?

if its bare minimum

[cerulean isle]

yea , wiki did state that each archtype will have 35-40 skills , so if they sticking to that we can expect to see a buttload more for each archtype

[late linden]

u also gotta remember currently our kit is fully accessable at 12. but in beta it might be level 25 to even have full access to half of the skills. due to the fact that alot of the skills can be moved around etc

everything currently could be toned down to level 12 standard

while at higher max level it could be half of the things are moved to require level 25 or something

noone knows how the final skill tree will even look like

[versed viper]

That’s for rogue. They fixed it cause it was unclear. But from what they’ve said in the past it seems clear we’re getting more skills and passives between levels 25-50. We’re just still stuck at 25 for now.

[late linden]

until december 20 then we get to max level 30 might add like 5-10 skills depending on class

or even less

[versed viper]

It doesn’t say anywhere that we can level beyond 25

[late linden]

1 sec

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Level_cap

holy shit thats so tiny

but ye

essentially max level should increase during phases

[versed viper]

This is what’s confirmed so far https://ashesofcreation.com/news/alpha-two-roadmap-and-ama

This was updated as of a few days ago

[late linden]

rapier?

[shy dragon]

Probably rapier or estoc.

I was hoping I'd get a 2h quarterstaff weapon at some point, but I guess spears will have to do.

[late linden]

ngl i wanna see the ability to dw axes or swords or maces as a fighter

[astral island]

Relics?

[onyx zinc]

they have planned lances, polearms and staves. Wiki says some staves will be melee, others ranged, so guessing melee stave is likely quarterstaff

[shy dragon]

I feel like sometimes I should just sit and read the wiki like a book before posting anything.

But there's so much content

[onyx zinc]

wish some of the streamers would read it a bit before they start whinging about wanting to change current PvP system without knowing all the end game systems planned that funnel players towards meaningful PvP instead of wanting ganking systems

[wraith remnant]

Meaningful Zerg content likely. Not fun :/ even small scale is too much work to coordinate. But no devs gonna make a full pvp game anymore .. o well.

[onyx zinc]

what do you mean? small scale pvp is too much work for players to coordinate?

[wraith remnant]

Yep imo:D

It’s a waste of time and energy. Rather just have no restrictions on anything :p

[soft grotto]

This is the new archtype section for phase 2

[onyx zinc]

the systems kind of do the coordinating for pvp in AoC. Best gear will be crafting, and artisans are limited to rely on other artisans, traveling to other nodes. Nodes have to rely on other nodes, and higher level nodes prevent other nodes from growing - all that funnels players into transporting valuable goods across biomes (to be lost in caravan pvp) and node wars within those biomes. Not to mention systems like guild war declarations and Military node mayors are elected by a series of open PvP battle royale, highest point winner at the end of the week is mayor

[astral island]

What would you say are the most soloable classes?

[shy dragon]

Bard & Cleric

But that's just because they have heals and I'm most familiar with them. I think with the right setup the other classes can have a decent time too. And in the current system which is only partially implemented

[onyx zinc]

depends what you're soloing. Cleric can solo higher level stuff, safer but slower. Bard/Mage/Fighter (lvl 12+) can all solo aoe mobs much faster than cleric for xp grinding. Idk about tank or ranger.

[lofty dew]

between fighter/mage/bard that i've played, bard was by far and away the best at solo play
you just never have to stop, can kite forever, can pull any amount of mobs, etc

but obviously most of my time was spent in groups past level 15

[astral island]

Is Bard's damage decent? How about PvP? I'm not gonna initiate, but if someone bothers me chilling and mining rocks, will I kill or be killed?😂 Say, vs. some guy approximately the same lvl as me

[swift bluff]

Ive been running around soloing lvl 9 and 10 mobs at lvl 7 as Tank so it seems viable for solo play even if kill times are a bit on thje slow side of things

[onyx zinc]

fighter was rough until level 12 or whenever you get bloodfusion. cleric is easy but slow, almost entire damage is from smite and auto attacks. if it's melee and can be aoe kited, mage can solo super fast and easy. Same for bard, not as fast but with extra heals / CC for mistakes and don't have to chug mana salves

[versed viper]

You can definitely look up specific topics though

[lofty dew]

dark lullaby + harmony + menacing + 3 tragedy stacks + magic crit chance buff = slaps

[astral island]

Is Bard chill to fight as in a group? Or is it like cleric where you have to focus intensely?

I am having serious commitment issues if it wasn't already obvious😂

[wraith remnant]

where tragedy? i dont see on skill tree

[lofty dew]

You get it from using the crit chance magic buff or conflict phys buff

[lofty dew]

It's very hard to actually optimize imo and stresses me out lol
But it's very easy if you just afk buff + mana bot

But that's really bad

[wraith remnant]

So just use the scrolls? eh ;p

[lofty dew]

Yeah it stacks up to 15% bonus + 15% menacing modifier + 15% crit chance + 30% dark lullaby damage from harmony

[shy dragon]

Mesmerizing dance is also nice with a fighter in the party cause staggered -> stunned is perfect

[lofty dew]

Yeah you can always guarantee the stun yourself but it's good to have synergies

[shy dragon]

Oh, also, one super amazing suggestion. Please change the circles on the pantheon saga (triple blue) that provides buffs.

People refuse to step in them thinking they're mob aoes.

And I get tired of having to explain-

Purple - 30% crit
Blue - 20% power
Orange - 30% health
Aqua - 25% movespeed

[lofty dew]

I'm glad you tested it, that's good to know
What's the durations

[shy dragon]

25 seconds?

[lofty dew]

What da fak

[shy dragon]

With about 10 seconds to pick the aoe ground circle

Yeah. Strongest buff. 🙂

[lofty dew]

Man I hate that saga buff but I guess you'd be dumping it anyways

[shy dragon]

It's do good when every hit is a crit

[lofty dew]

Those buffs could be sick in an 8v8

[shy dragon]

So*

[lofty dew]

25 seconds seems like....broken though haha

[shy dragon]

It fails on terrain and in rooms though. It can have the circles on walls which is annoying. Or fall under the ground

[lofty dew]

You could just dump the saga on pantheon and then swap to whatever scroll you want

In a fight

[shy dragon]

Mhmm. The movespeed and gravity one is amazingly fun too. It's my favorite.

The 10% temp hp buff is broken as well. An every 30 (or 25s with echo) buffer of health similar to a shield is.. strong

[lofty dew]

man but to get perfect timing you have to use a wand lol
and wands lock you out of casting to get it

maybe they will fix the bug

[shy dragon]

Spellbooks have it too, no?

[lofty dew]

its bugged

doesnt proc

i tried for 45 mins

so did another friend of mine

i dont think wands will stay like that though
if they fix wands and books I will 100% hop off this shortbow

[visual gorge]

This must be true. Don't need to double the skill amount, but needs some more.

[late stirrup]

Any cleric thats fighting mages or other fighters and theres spells or spin to winning on you, set down the Divine Flare-> Divine Retribution for Silencing all spells of the enemy lasting for 5 seconds

They become either auto attack nubs or just walkers that stand there looking stupid

Conflagrating into condemn stuns as well, so there's a double silence/ stun in our arsenal

The best combo of this is with a wand and focus

Although it looks like the Blood cursed spellbook has the highest magical power rating over all for int builds

If youre tryna max that stat

But getting an arcane engineer of that level, wheeew, guess ill wait till after dec for that

[wraith remnant]

So you mean if a mage is aoe you you put it on yourself ?

[agile saddle]

Have you not seen the legendary level 10 long spellbow someone crafted? It was 788 magical power

[maiden hearth]

Hey fellow bards, what weapons are you using?

I’m using Greatsword stat stick and spellbow, wondering if Wand/Book is better.

[agile saddle]

Depends on what you want your weapon for

If you only care about finishers, shortbow is probably your best bet
If you don’t care, a longbow will have the highest magic power
If you want to murder people a wand is your best friend

[maiden hearth]

Ohh… book is no good?

I think I might go Longbow, but I am curious why wand is best murder weapon.

[agile saddle]

Wand plus menacing melody plus 8 stacks of resonant weapon
If you proc an extended finisher, you can drop a single target

[maiden hearth]

Oh like, the wand’s finisher is good with the shock from menacing melody resonant?

[agile saddle]

The wand beam also procs every single shocked stack

[maiden hearth]

Ooo… I see

I might try it

But my class fantasy of an archer bard.

[agile saddle]

Shocked does 15% each, and you put 40 stacks on them

It’s ludicrous

[maiden hearth]

Right double finisher = 20 stacks from resonance… and 20 stacks due to finisher + extended finisher.

And shock is DoT right? If I’m not mistaken?

[agile saddle]

1 stack of resonant weapon is 5 stacks of shock

[maiden hearth]

Ohh… I see, so resonance alone is 40 stacks, and finisher does extra dmg based on shock stacks?

Sorry I never played with wand so I’m clueless about it

[agile saddle]

Wand finisher is a beam that hits like 5-10 times in a second

So it procs shock every time it does damage

[maiden hearth]

Oh Jesus, I see what you mean now.

[agile saddle]

It’s stupid
And I hope they fix it
I didn’t use a wand last weekend cause I didn’t want to abuse it in pvp

[charred seal]

Burning and conflag work the same way, just not as many stacks, right

[agile saddle]

not sure, thats a mage/cleric thing

[late stirrup]

It would have to proc before they casted or during their cast either with your insta cast ability or just sheer luck

[late stirrup]

Theres a cooldown but yeah

So the scales right now are tipped to accomadate for level 25 cap

[vivid juniper]

theres been no focus on balance yet

don't worry abt that

it will come later

stability and core systems are priority

balancing is simple number changes but making 10000 people run smooth on a server with 20000 enemies is difficult :D

[lofty dew]

level 10 crafts are just far easier to guarantee
getting a legendary version of this is nearly impossible

[late stirrup]

Crafted bags, profession clothing, scrolls, and pylons my friend

Not to mention, upgraded gathering tools

Will make this way easier than you realize

[lofty dew]

i have 0 clue how you're going to find 10 legendary corrupted blood

[late stirrup]

Still, it will be a grind fest

[lofty dew]

i dont think ive ever seen an uncommon corrupted blood

[late stirrup]

Could just not be in the game currently

Who knows

I was just saying that once these items are in, this tome has the highest magic power rating, from the farmed data on the codex

With int

Which gives more magical power rating

[loud silo]

as a single item, but what about wand + foci? That generally has higher magical rating and speed

[late stirrup]

It adds up to be less

65 less

Casting speed if your looking to attack faster and proc your fires or freezes more will use the wand and focus

But raw power is the tome

Now if you get a shit roll, cause you dont use a scroll or pylons or stuff of that nature, Thats on you

[loud silo]

what's the tomes stats?

[late stirrup]

#alpha-two-archetype-chat message

[loud silo]

you get more stats too from the foci/wand. that's narrows the damage gap while giving more penetration and accuracy

[late stirrup]

The tomes int adds 96-105 more MPR, while the wand/focus adds 87-120

[loud silo]

and that's just the briarhome wand, curious to see what other high level wands their are

[late stirrup]

Its all on ashescodex

I've sorted by level, then forced rarity

[loud silo]

Curious how accurate it's stats are on rarity

[late stirrup]

I'll give you that

My personal fav, is the crystalized blood wand..... Lifesteal baby

[loud silo]

hmm, looking at it's scaling it probably still needs work

pretty sure my forsaken blades shortbow is 280~ power rating and it's rare

but otherwise it's close

ew I must have a super crappy energy spellbook too, lol mine is 157 damage and codex says minimum for common is 162

[late stirrup]

It be like that

I just hit over 250 with the short spellbow

but all my worn equipment is green or lower xD

[loud silo]

im trying to find the bough warden on the map...I know I've seen it in-game before but can't remember where

the codex doesn't seem to have a pin for it or I'm blind

[plucky kestrel]

Silly question, I have heard Tank taunt is over tuned, but also "useless", which is it? Is there a video that could be recommended for insight? Or a forum post?

[lofty dew]

in pvp, 30% damage reduction with very high uptime is not useless at all
nobody wants to focus the tank, so it usually has big value
in pve, it just likely doesn't work the way people are used to in other games because it's not an 'attack me now' button

[plucky kestrel]

Tyvm!

[warm sphinx]

I don't know how threat is calculated for other archetypes, but since the skill adds a flat amount of threat, it's likely that

• Threat is likely uncapped or has a huge ceiling
• Healing and DPS can out-generate threat from Taunt in certain situations

It is definitely not "put me at the top of the threat list with some buffer threat"

30 is really high for pvp. Hopefully there can be a conditional amount based on if it's used in pvp vs pve

[lofty dew]

For the moment damage is so hilariously overtuned that it's fine 😂

[warm sphinx]

Makes sense haha. Both would be tuned in tandem I'd imagine!

[late stirrup]

Ah a healer, When i'm aoe healing and hot healing and throwing out slow heals and doing insta heals. Ive pulled so many mobs off the tank its not funny. When that happens. You need your tank to immediately tell you. Communication is key. So you can drop heals and switch to a kite tank, till aggro is re generated, or the tank chains the mob back to him

So my gen rate for aggro procs off the whole parties aggro towards the mob. And if my magical power is higher than their main power stat. Welp. looks like im getting jump kiting practice

Now if you have a tank and a fighter combo. You set

[echo thunder]

Hey so... for a ranger, is a shortbow or longbow better dps wise?

[loud silo]

they're about the same, really. Longbow has a higher damage rating, but shortbow offers faster cast times

[echo thunder]

hmmm noted

[mild cloud]

Not playing a ranger, but a Bard. I did try out both and the Longbow feels better imo. The shortbow is rapid fire, the longbow slower. I think the longbow has slightly more range too.

[loud silo]

shortbow also has bleed, which is my preference. If longbow had bleed I think it'd be the better choice tbh

[mild cloud]

yeah, I think I would agree. The longbow has Stagger/Wound which don't feel super useful in PvE

[loud silo]

Shortbow also gets arrowstorm which is pretty awesome. Swordmaster and Arrowstorm proccing together is crazzy good

[echo thunder]

[mild cloud]

Witht the draw then fire on the longbow, it feels like bows in most other games. The shortbow is just kinda insta fire and feels more like a little machine gun than a bow imo

[loud silo]

the spellbook is really good for rangers too, tbh

[echo thunder]

it is?? lmao

[mild cloud]

If you don't mind the occasional unintentional pull

[loud silo]

has high damage rating, aoe autoattack cleaves and can add fire or frost depending on your perks

[mild cloud]

that AoE can sometimes get you in trouble

[loud silo]

echo works a lot like arrowstorm

[echo thunder]

ngl, with the way I farm, I much more prefer single target lol. I think I will just keep to using the longbow

[loud silo]

I hope they bring back energy wands

[echo thunder]

Cant wait to be able to actually make my heroic bronze longbow

[loud silo]

Oh, fun fact....there are energy sceptres. Didn't know that was a thing, always thought mace was the phys version but nope...physical sceptres too lol

[echo thunder]

lol

[late stirrup]

Use ashescodex to learn the different equipment and stat combos

[loud silo]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-its-a-trap-dont-do-it-alien-space-gif-17149325

[versed viper]

I haven’t had aggro issues with my guild tanks even with too many high level mobs pulled and two of us Clerics spam healing the party to keep people alive

[late stirrup]

That just means your tank has good gear

and good sense

pug group tanks normally dont have good gear

[versed viper]

Interesting didn’t know people were having issues. Gear is definitely important in this game for all archetypes and I think a lot of people don’t realize yet just how important it is

[frozen peak]

The biggest trouble I've seen clerics (including myself) getting into is over-healing on pulls. A lot of tanks are just prox aggro'ing mobs to get them balled up (before they do their taunt). Early on I didn't realize Tanks had some mitigation/healing capabilities, and I'd try to flash cure them on incoming. After ripping aggro a few times I now just throw on a HOT before they head out the door to pull.

[versed viper]

I’ve seen Clerics complain about power issues but again with enough gear we feel amazing

[frozen peak]

Yeah, cleric really pops off once you get a decent book + magic weapon/focus

[versed viper]

I usually pop the healing circle once they get the mobs together and after the silence procs I pop Consecrating Wave for another debuff and heal. Tank should be totally fine for the 3 seconds it takes to proc that first heal. But if not, casting a Deliverance ( and if necessary with one flash or class resource to shorten the cast if they’re taking heavy damage) should be more than enough to keep them up and not pull aggro.

[late stirrup]

They need to use their physical block

[past flower]

What weapons are Mages using, and why?

[loud silo]

every weapon and because they can

[past flower]

Super insightful.

[loud silo]

There isn't really any other answer. All weapons have physical and magical variants

Some people like the speed of swords, others the damage from 2h or mace + foci

some like wands because they're fast, others like books for cleave, others like bows

[fringe plaza]

are there any classes with a flat interupt? I have been playing fighter for a bit and i feel like being forced to stagger than trip isnt enough

[loud silo]

Bards have an interrupt that also silences for 5 seconds

[past flower]

The reason wasn't because I am blissfully unaware those weapons exist - I just wanted to know why people chose what they chose over other weapons.

[loud silo]

I think tanks have a interrupt too, but not as good as bards

[fringe plaza]

the yoink

interupts i guess

why don't fighters have a pummel

[loud silo]

they have a knockdown ability with their shield too for interrupts

[late stirrup]

Clerics have a silence that lasts for 5 seconds as well

[loud silo]

is that the chain skill?

[late stirrup]

can be insta cast if you have the cleric specific resource

no

[loud silo]

I literally never see a cleric use their silence lol, as the bard I'm normally the only one who does the interrupts and silences on big attacks

[late stirrup]

Divine flare into divine retribution

[sweet parrot]

I was curious about shield or whatever but getting hit sort of isn't great and then also blocking means I can't cast so not sure about that one

[late stirrup]

I silence all the time

helps keep your tank alive LOL

[loud silo]

You'd be surprised at the number of clerics I've seen who don't want to do anything else but spam heal.

Some don't even bother autoattacking

[late stirrup]

Thats dumb asf, cause the auto attack builds the insta cast ability

plus autos can cause conflagrating

and bleed

and stun

tf

[loud silo]

People want to be carried

[late stirrup]

There will be a difference in Good healers, and trash healers. You will start to notice this during dungeons

[versed viper]

It’s on our heal circle so it’s delayed 3 seconds after we cast it

[late stirrup]

Same with tanks

Since tankin in this game is not like most MMOs

[frozen peak]

Many, too many, groups were running double cleric / double bard last 2 weekends lmao

so very easy to sit in the back and spam

[late stirrup]

LMFAo

garbage

[loud silo]

That seems like a rough way to have silence. Normally you want it instant to respond to threats

[late stirrup]

I cleric, and one bard is optimal

[frozen peak]

I started speaking up when I'd get invited to these groups lol

[lofty dew]

what we were trying in 8v8 was
bard silence -> mes dance -> they cant dodge cleric silence

[versed viper]

I agree I gave feedback on it

[lofty dew]

but you can also just marionette and it doesnt seem like clerics can cc break marionette for some reason

which is broken as fuck

[late stirrup]

Use the cleric specific ability to auto cast it

[lofty dew]

literally every single 1 cleric group we faced, we wiped in 5 seconds with 2 cleric 2 bard

[versed viper]

The circle is an instant cast already but once it’s down the effect is delayed 3 seconds. Don’t think we can do anything about that.