alpha-two-general

[simple oxide]

😂 I'm one of those people - but I also got several thousand hours of play time over the years. Why would I be mad when I actually had a ton of fun while I could play? Shit happens, game companies run out of money - being mad like this is actually dumb.

@acoustic harness You're not wrong. I know several youtubers who's whole channels were built around hating on AoC because it had pvp in it and wasn't enough like WoW or other PVE games they enjoyed.

[echo bronze]

[lost jewel]

Yeah, at least google says:

Secured debt,
Administrative claims,
Wage claims,
Unsecured debt

I also vaguely remember from finance textbooks that wages are pretty high in the precedence; but again - not sure

[odd bane]

storage.courtlistener. com/recap/gov.uscourts.casd.842836/gov.uscourts.casd.842836.1.0. pdf Burdecki and Strange’s class action lawsuit

[iron pollen]

Do they still not have a trinity in Gorgon?

[spice stump]

[fervent raft]

Of course this comes as no surprise as people have been talking about the initial filings for four days now.

I believe that all 123 employees have a right to 60 days’ pay through federal law (Intrepid employed over 100 people and issued WARN act notices to more than 50) and I would not be surprised to see a firm step up with a class action lawsuit to represent everyone.

I know there was at least one firm that specializes in class action suits that handle a lot of WARN act violations that was investigating, not sure if they have filed yet.

Steven stated that he resigned due to Board making decisions that he could not ethically agree with and it has been suggested that information was leaked from within the company, that one of the reason's Steven resigned was due to those in a decision-making position wanting to take WARN action on approximately 100 employees without providing the pay/severance.

[rapid salmon]

[echo bronze]

[acoustic harness]

[maiden timber]

[empty pumice]

[swift sinew]

[iron pollen]

Some people paid money to fund the game but didn't actually play in test phases because they wanted to play at launch. Asking them not to be upset, after all the statements and promises made, is unreasonable.

[zinc mauve]

Right it's too early to pass judgement.

[topaz torrent]

OMG! I just heard the craziest rumor!!! Did you guys know that

[simple oxide]

okay thats fair to be upset if you lost an emmotional/monetary investment - but at the same time they should have gone into it with the understanding that games like this can fail and it was always a gamble

[final raptor]

Was Ashes the placeholder all along?

[queen topaz]

Vaporware Of Creations

[timber parcel]

All of these have been genuinely bad games for the longest time.

[wooden mica]

Nice but I dit not survive the ashes, im basking in them

[hardy charm]

yooo white and others

[spice stump]

[rapid salmon]

[wide pecan]

this has been fun while it lasted, uninstalled the game and unfollowed all their socials, see ya bros

[lost jewel]

Well, communication in this channel was:
“If you dont like it, dont play it; its a niche game not for everyone”
And looks like the niche mmo of such scale could not sustain the expenses on development

Either shouldve targeted more people; or shouldve had smaller scope 🤷

[grave stone]

🤡

[simple oxide]

there was a fairly fleshed out game... vapor ware would mean it didn't actually exist lol.

[plain sluice]

Asses of Creation

[maiden timber]

[queen topaz]

yet a lot of systems showed in livestream were vaporware and still don't exist today

[blissful hedge]

https:// www. linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7426390703422996480/?originTrackingId=Pb3mDSxWkdbkKIM2zU5Flw%3D%3D

Gotta laugh a the reply

[slim gyro]

Servers are still online?

[topaz torrent]

You mean to tell me I could have been killing baby ducks this ENTIRE TIME?!

[fervent raft]

I disagree, I think with sound financial decisions and management, we would not have seen any of this.

[severe berry]

[opal flame]

Were people upset about the 20 dollar subscription fee that was leaked? 20 dollars a month is reasonable. Anyway, it's too bad things turned out the way they did. I was really really enjoying the game and just wanted it to come out, but it didn't work out. Really a shame it didn't 🙁

[simple oxide]

I remember testing most of those at some point or another during the different phases - freeholds for example was in-game and then taken offline to rework. heck Harbingers was actually working in-game on some servers before the end.

@lost jewel this was more an issue of it not actually being a full game yet and still in development - there is something like 184,000 people in the discord for example - and a fairly large community that was backing the game. The problem is they just couldn't manage their time well enough to get the product out and into the hands of people to turn a profit.

[halcyon sleet]

[hidden axle]

[empty pumice]

[rapid salmon]

[sharp patio]

[proud mist]

Some of us rely on TTS.. can you stop the emoji ashes spam, please!

[feral compass]

The new documents are wild

[topaz torrent]

My heads still exploding from seeing that guy post the screenshot from Tenok or whatever it was called. Boy did I really have no idea what was in store for me later that weekend

[grave stone]

[fervent raft]

I did not see credible evidence of a $20 subscription, where was this published/posted? The only number I have seen is $14.99

[buoyant rain]

[opal flame]

Eh it was just what was said in the last Theoryforge video. Definitely take it with a grain of salt

[lost jewel]

I mean, sounds like you agree 🙂
Cause “controlling scope creep” is one of components in “making sound financial decisions”

But im half-joking.

Also to @simple oxide I dont see the world in which even 200k projected people at launch could return resonable profit on 800k opex a week.
Cause that means that almost all of them would have to pay subs of 15 $ for a long time (without decline in population!) to break even the already spent costs.

[thin fiber]

[simple oxide]

Well you have to consider other methods of revenue such as cosmetic sales, IP licensing, clothing merch, etc. ArenaNET somehow manages to survive with just the box cost and in-game microtransactions years after release and they only have about 8k players in their game atm. not to mention reduction of staff size after launch

[limpid fog]

what's everyone getting so worked up about? what new documents?

[zealous linden]

Can't wait for the live devstream...

[lost jewel]

True, i dont know how to value revenue stream from cosmetics on ashes. So this argument is fair.
But even if it is comparable to subs (so take 2x of that revenue) - youd need to run 200k for couple years at least to just break even with at least one year of already spent opex.

Actually correction: if it is 2x, i think per year of already spent opex, you need half a year to be at 200k (but it is the lower number cause no transaction fees and so on)

[acoustic harness]

But that has nothing to do with what I was referring to. Literally, if Ashes could sustain its development with 50k monthly players, then that would have happened, and over time more players would have come because “good things” always attract attention.

But what I mean is that it seems like there's a massive group (especially from WOW) of people who try to pressure MMORPGs (not just Ashes) to be like their favorite MMORPGs (especially WOW), and if those MMORPGs don't do it, then those MMORPG that tries to do things its own way or be different are bombarded with negative pressure from that massive group of people.

It's as if these groups of people don't even give other MMORPGs a chance to be born because those MMORPGs aren't similar enough to what they're used to playing.

[fervent raft]

Thanks for the resource, I see the mention and no, I had not heard this. It sounds like the idea of the $20 sub fee rather than the $14.99 they have talked about for years came about from the most recent content creator meeting that took place right before things blew up. Personally, I think it would have been a mistake had they actually decided to eventually go in that direction but, moot point now I guess.

[livid sail]

Theres a fine line with "make this like wow" and "make some reasonable changes to make it more appealing"

[simple oxide]

tbf on recoup of cost spent - I think a game like AoC at a full launch would pretty easily hit New World or Lost Ark numbers for at least the first week or two - doesn't mean they would retain that but the EA for example was with next to no marketing and with a huge disclaimer that it was buggy, unfinished and would wipe multiple times lol and still hit a decent concurrent number and retention rate compared to those same games I listed above. If we expand on that for a full launch I could see them hitting a 200k concurrency for at least a few months after launch.

@dusk bone
What are you talking about bro? I specifically remember testing it at one point a couple years ago... they were also leaking in the CC meeting (I can send you the recording) that we were getting it back in March...

[final raptor]

A few days before the livestream was moved, I said in-game that I couldn't wait to see Steven's smiling face and asked what people thought he would talk about. Somebody whispered me and said they heard the game was shutting down. I never did whisper them back cause I figured it was a troll. Whomever you are, I salute you.

[dapper sonnet]

Ok FINE fair enough. It's sad dang it

[fervent raft]

I mean, sounds like you agree

Incorrect. I think the current numbers (even prior to Steam) would not have been an issue without mismanagement. If you dig yourself into a hole over the course of years with poor decisions or failing to make decisions that should have been made, tough to get out of and can actually lead to desperate decisions and measures that only exacerbate the issues.

[topaz torrent]

I know Ashes is down pretty bad right now, and most people are probably still upset that Cardi B and her boyfriend broke up last night on top of that, but I think everything's gonna be OK. Drake just started following POTUS. We are healing.

[smoky shuttle]

[empty anvil]

Hey guys, Let this sink in.... Camelot Unchained is still going to make launch even after all of the drama and having Mark Jacobs behind the project... Lol

[desert steppe]

wait i still have a package for this from a decade ago, that shit is still alive?

[proven solstice]

👀

[dusk bone]

If planting trees and farming poop is a system that entails a lot more than just that.... no one cares about your UE4 experience. It was non existent in its re iteration. Post some ss's of the ue5 build in ptr/ live. Ill wait.

[acoustic harness]

“Make some reasonable changes to make it more appealing.”

At what cost, sacrificing the heart of Ashes? I mean, I understand that many people see from over 25 years of experience with MMORPGs that “making things more attractive ensures sales, which ensures development, which ensures that the MMORPG continues on its path,” but that's from the perspective of a company that is already established in the market, not from a company that is “literally” trying to get its MMORPG off the ground.

If Ashes had continued its development and had between 40k and 70k monthly players, it would have sustained its development, which would have given it time to continue improving things, which would also have given it the opportunity to attract more players. That is sustained growth, which has happened with the best online games such as LOL, WOW, and CS.

[barren valve]

Is a private server possible?

[simple oxide]

https:// youtu.be/JxEl3-zLXyo?si=Uoy2wtqFtH6p62kY 💀 2/1/2025. just a year ago... within UE5...

[ocean sparrow]

servers still up?

[rapid salmon]

да

[livid sail]

It won't ever be the same without an SWG like full source leak. That was a godsend for SWG and have allowed some of us to make legitimate client changes and new content

[empty anvil]

Yessir, More Delays, Looks like ass, But still pushing foward. Dont ask me how. Yet here we are in, Standing in the flames of this shit show. I dont know how CU and Mark Jacobs were able to survive but not Ashes.

[topaz torrent]

We've been in full on clown world for at least 7 years that I can prove

[desert steppe]

wild

[teal crag]

Cant wait for the next livestream! Really want to know what is coming in future updates

[livid sail]

You can have a sandbox heart while still tweaking some things. As someone who loves, loves, loves, PvP and all things PvP, there were multiple threads and suggestions on moving to a more flag based system and only have forced PvP for certain activities like carrying packs, doing caravans, etc that truly for the game progression has PvP at its core. This one change alone makes it very appealing to a large casual audience that just want to farm, craft and enjoy the scenery. Those people may never do any end game activities but they help fund the game and keep the world alive. I have a list of other suggestions that I've pieced together from people over time, but these don't ruin the core of what the game is or what a sandbox is. Those people were told to just get lost and laughed out the discussions.

[vital hearth]

Bro the game is in the end

[dusk bone]

Planting trees and poop farming was all that made it into the live environment.

[faint flare]

Steven, come back!

Edit:

[rapid salmon]

[tropic silo]

Apart of what a sand box is , is non consensual open world pvp. Without it you don't get the same organic pop up conflict that narrates the sand box experience. Awful to suggest to take that away.

[stray schooner]

went devs come back

[lunar walrus]

@vague leaf are there any more updates on what happened? I know a lot of people are mad af, but it would be nice for everyone to know wtf truly happened

[regal vortex]

if anyone wants a referal to quinfall hit me up, its like aoc and new world had a child, Heathans, Bandits and EXCIDIVM are there

[empty pumice]

[topaz torrent]

[terse kindle]

after 9 years they need to be mad,be honest AoC drama was everywhere,idk if any game have that alot of videos on YT about shut down studio,reddit,forums i mean its crazy!We expect this week more infos!

[livid sail]

So SWG never existed? Or now its magically not considered a sandbox? We till managed to have lots of PvP and open world areas just flagged for PvP.

[proud mist]

new steve info www youtube com /watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

[sharp yacht]

He's probably prepping a lawsuit, meaning no responses or elaborations, because he may inadvertently acknowledge his own failings and hurt his argument about the game.

[simple oxide]

😂 brother they had work stations, storage, profession based benefits, etc. you're just hating because you got shown to your face that you were wrong

[scarlet fossil]

brother I can dream that url

[teal crag]

ofc not, I know people have a lot of questions at the moment.
Please be patient as the week continues to unfold with the necessary process.
Wait until there are more facts available before forming conclusions like this

[terse kindle]

for sure,thats what we all waiting for and see where we are!

[dusk bone]

Brother I farmed poop for braidwood for 18 hours. Thats all there was in game. Thats it.

[terse finch]

[buoyant rain]

[livid sail]

Did you not leave the starting area?

[crimson kernel]

Is Steam doing refunds yet?

[acoustic harness]

And I agree with you on those ideas. Anything that would have helped Ashes continue on its path without breaking the pillars and heart of its design would have been welcome. That's what I was asking for too, “adaptation,” but unfortunately there are people who think this way: “If things are like this, then there's no way they can improve.” There are people who, in the last year, have tried to “belittle” all the progress that has been made and assume that it could not be improved/adapted any further, and that is the most damaging thing of all and what I am referring to.

There are people who don't let MMORPGs grow simply because “if it doesn't give me its best version right now,” then that MMORPG has no future. That's a nonsensical way of thinking.

As an example to consider, look at the latest update to Rust. Now look at Rust five years ago. Two different worlds that have come together because Rust had the time to cook it.

[dusk bone]

Its regarding a freehold system they removed. I tested every iteration of the game on its live servers for 1 year 4 months. You should really look into things more.

[floral cloud]

Help us, Steven sharif. You're our only hope

[wary yew]

Yep, after hundreds and hundreds of hours farming, I finally got my heroic rosarium set, and the day I did, they shut the game down. I didn't even get to PVP with it. The RMT'ers got to PVP for numerous weeks with their POLAR dupe sets and one tap anyone they wanted for months.

[livid sail]

Glad we agree on those parts. I certainly don't wont it to become WoW. Coming from SWG being my first MMO, WoW is a bad word there.

[simple oxide]

brother... you were just claiming that freeholds weren't in the game at all and claimed "no one cares about your UE4 experience. It was non existent in its re iteration. Post some ss's of the ue5 build in ptr/ live. Ill wait." now you want me to believe you actually tested any of it?

[topaz torrent]

I wish we could help Steven

[cobalt eagle]

[faint flare]

[stray path]

[fathom moon]

[dusk bone]

Its funny because I played on non dead servers vs. The sweats that did no life heavily. Ive got ss's and vids from every phase alpha 2 to 3.5.

[rapid salmon]

[acoustic harness]

The Return of the Jedi

I choose to believe

[lost jewel]

I dunno.
New world apparently in total sold 8.4 to 17 mln copies over several years and brought revenue of ~ 540 mln over these years.
(Google numbers, treat with caution).

It means that if we are assuming same revenue per head, ashes wouldve need to sell to ~ 1.5 mln people to recuperate 100 mln$ (which i think is a fair approximate estimate of funds already spent on dev)

Of course, they do not have same models of monetization, so my comparison is questionable.

@fervent raft maybe i then failing to see your point in what exactly decisions you are referring to.
But it is okay, i think its okay to disagree.

[maiden timber]

[final raptor]

Is Steven the Apprentice or the Master?

[floral cloud]

[plain sluice]

I cant believe Steven did this. He is a foolish man

[slate egret]

After all the Quinfall pitching in here, I tried it out. Absolute garbage starter experience. Combat is some of the worst in the last 2 decades. Zero hit feedback, relies on screen shake to mask it, horrible "skill feel", and really clunky movement. It's probably great if you're desperate enough. That is all.

[jolly raptor]

actually polar did this

[grave stone]

🤡

[simple oxide]

go ahead and post them in #1468844351097405521

[raven thicket]

Whichever no longer has the high ground.

[spring lily]

the copium of people in here is honestly incredible.. never have i seen people show such high regard towards a game that fucked them out of 100s of dollars.. the clown show continues.. 🤡

[normal oracle]

Let me Introduce you to Star Citizen.... LOL

[plain sluice]

Can you explain the whole Polar situation to me? I only know them from World of Warcraft classic, where they were a top tier raiding guild. Also @grave stone plz dont post selfies in the chat. thx.

[empty pumice]

[buoyant rain]

[cobalt eagle]

[acoustic harness]

[jolly raptor]

well you see they act like assholes, so ppl called them assholes and then the leadership cried that ppl call them assholes but also refused to do anything about them and their members being assholes. so they devolved into the server clowns and everyone is laughing at them

[fervent raft]

Top tier exploiting guild with RMT and account sharing and bans, rinse and repeat every game they touch included Ashes.

[raven thicket]

There is so much out there of incredible quality that has existed for years, I just don't get why people are rushing to the half-arsed joke that is queef-fall.

[sage fjord]

out 50$ it had issues but got 100+ hours out of it with the wife and enjoyed 99% of that time so too me was a cheap gamble...the amount of buthurt you are feeling and projecting on to others is something you need to look inside to figure out. i am not defending AoC nor am i bashing it ... i was fully aware the money was a gamble and i for one am not SO HURT to still be badmouthing the game nor the people on eitherside.... I am just enjoying the game still and my ROI is growing even if it ends soon

[warm depot]

[candid pewter]

Is posting this kind of thing helping you to cope? Might be time to let go.

[grave stone]

You are a sad pathetic clown loser with no meaning in life other then to post negative messages in this discord. Until you f off for good I will continue posting the clown emoji (basically you) every time you post a message 🤡

[spring lily]

you wasted 100 of hours of your life for a game that will never release and you think your out nothing.. that is the price of stupidity.. its no wonder steven was able to drag this on for so long with people like you out here ... just throwing time and moeny away at a game that had 0 chance and was nothing special to start with. Star citizen atleast is doing it right and not a shady rug pulling half ass made game lol

[plush kestrel]

Maybe because we liked the game and still want it to be completed and released. I’m unsure what’s so hard to understand about that tbh.

[normal oracle]

Sad thing... I have 12 Ships on Star Citizen... Only 3 Have Lifetime Insurance...BUUUUUT... At LEAST SC is ACTUALLY Adding Content... And I Am Still in a Wait and See Pattern as far as AOC Goes... Will there be a Takeover or will it Die a Premature Death.... Suck if it Does but Ain't the End of the World...

[onyx harness]

Ashes is like the Titanic with every lifeboat full while I’m laid back in a folding beach chair on the boat deck VIP section, sipping a good drink, watching it crumble, and listening to the musicians.

[plain sluice]

Damn so I will always have someone trailing behind me and posting whenever I post. looks like I have got myself a fan!

[verbal saffron]

anyway can we revive gigantic

[wooden mica]

server STILL on?

[forest surge]

@simple oxide Why you in full AoC defense mode, what's going on xd

[heady wave]

I have room on my door

[fading meadow]

there is not a single MMORPG that was successfull with it without adding safe zones or name me one. EvE has 1.0 sec, Albion addd afaik, UO main pop is not on Fel,, Drakfall failed, Mortal Online 1+2 failed, Legends of Aria failed.

[sage fjord]

lol how is it a waste if i enjoyed it? LOL thanks for the laugh at your expense ... i am not stupid and all games come to AN END! difference is your emotional over what i am doing with my time and I am LAUGHING my ass off at your displeasure of it all...

[delicate ivy]

a lot of respect for the last streamer standing ! @rapid salmon

[normal oracle]

Welll...Not the END of MY World... I Got Close to 3 years Total out of the Explorer's Pack... And Krewshi... that is called a stalker.. I Believe ... Goodnight all

[faint flare]

[round girder]

[candid pewter]

You really shouldn't be letting it bother you so much that other people enjoy things that you do not.

[smoky ocean]

Damn we were getting release in September

[grave stone]

This guy is literally sitting at home fantasizing and wanking over when the servers might get shut down. Literally no other meaning in life 😂

[haughty goblet]

@livid sail 1.0 Sec is not safe...
UO had hundreds of thousands of players before Trammy was released...

[rapid salmon]

Thank you for your kind words. ❤️

[wooden mica]

1.0 is not a safezone what you talkin, especially noobs get ganked all the time in 1.0 space

[plain sluice]

The servers deserve to get shut down so that people can free themselves from this pile of dogshit game and go play something else 🙂

[simple oxide]

game died bro - shut down, capoot. Been spending the last week just digging into it and figuring out what is true and what isn't. A lot of people jumped on the "I hate Steven" train and just feel that it isn't fair to him or to the game when most of what I've found shows they just ran out of money and lost control of the game/company to their creditors who then killed the project. Playing devils advocate I guess

[sage peak]

Discord is requiring face ID so it can systematically track down AoC backers and get us to invest in the next big MMORPG

[spring lily]

its funn you think i am mad when i didnt lkike the game to start. i didnt get high off the aoc copium.. and this is much more enjoyable for me trust me.. you thought you were getting some fleshed out great mmo.. that alpha on steam was a fkn joke.. you enjoyed playing that? really? lol i bet you like sniffing glue as well.. maybe a little arse sniffing you smooth brain dog water iq mouth breathing fkn loserrrsss xD

[wary yew]

Dude hasn't said sorry to the community for lying for years over and over that the game was fully funded and that he retained full control.

If you were truly sorry, you would apologize for lying.

[abstract tapir]

Can you answer this question: when was the last time Steven said he had full control of the company? Show proof

[candid pewter]

You are literally raging because someone enjoyed the time they spent playing AoC and doesn't regret their choices like you do.

[forest surge]

I get that, but that detail alone, that they ran out of money and lost control of the game/company, is damning as is. Steven repeated to us time and time again that the game was fully refunded. Even if people are spreading falsehoods, or damning Steven's name, its not like he ultimately didn't cause it himself. Shouldn't of lied in the first place, damned if you do, damned if you don't type situation.

[sage fjord]

Roflmao LIVING RENT FREE IN A TINY MIND.... now everyone around me reading your garbage responses and enjoying laughing at you.... this wasnt a life changing decision to spend 50 on a maybe and if it works out cool if not cool also... but your discomfort is sending waves of laughter out into the world.... thank you for the laugh but i need to get back to work and so you are dismissed

[simple oxide]

sigh we've been over this bro. Game within its original scope and expected release window was likely funded for that period of time and as time dragged on they just ran out of money as it exceeded their original goals. Shit changes. It is what it is. But you can also clearly see in the financial record that he did go out of his way to keep the game funded and eventually just ran out of options. Should he apologize for not managing the game well enough to see it to a full release? Sure, but I don't think he lied when he said he was fully funding it at that time - he probably sincerely thought he could get it out in time or find the funding to make it work if it got delayed. Why you treat this as so black n white is just beyond me. It is a complex and nuanced situation.

@forest surge - read above brother. A lie would require intent to deceive. I don't think that was present.

[sage peak]

Most mentally stable Lineage player

[kindred turtle]

gg guys

[empty pumice]

[spring lily]

im glad i could make your see how much of a loser you are bud.. im here to help you guys realize you are dweebs, who cannot stop supporting a game that ripped you right off

[topaz gull]

Monday to completion yet?

[north basalt]

Are servers up still?

[grave stone]

You know what, I would be very concerned if I were in Steven's shoes and if this person lived in the same country as me, especially with the lax gun laws in the US because the level of creep is extremely worrying in this individual

[wary yew]

@abstract tapir Check my alpha-two-feedback thread titled "Liar' for timestamps. He has not apologized once to the community since this started for lying.

@simple oxide If you tell someone every year, over and over, repeatedly in every interview that you retain full control and there is no board, people will take you at your word, and expect you to tell them if that changes. Lying by omission is still lying, especially if the truth you are keeping secret invalidates everything you have held to be true for years. An apology is due, and an apology has not been given.

[fervent raft]

I find your postings entertaining Vic. The fact that you have stated you didn't like the game from the beginning, were banned 3 years ago for telling everyone it was a scam, only to return in Dec to buy another copy of it while advertising for a guild with grumpy old gamers like yourself. 🤣

[plain sluice]

lmao what kind of fucking unhinged comment is this

[candid pewter]

lol, what a meltdown

[dusk bone]

@simple oxide Clown

[south wadi]

Guess this is the first time you guys lost 100 bucks

[sage fjord]

yes i just logged in to see

[fading meadow]

wht is fine like here and you go corrupt. Only thing is the exploits need to get fixed.
Without the eve community on average have 2-4 Accounts running and PLEX the game would be dead also

[simple oxide]

A lie of ommission still requires intent to deceive - if he was actively working to fund the game by leveraging his assets to get loans and keep production going then he truly believed he could get the game launched and that it was funded still. We also don't know when the board formed but that it was likely created in October or November of 2025 when that internal memo went out that was leaked in Kira's video. We do know that the board wasn't a formal board of control based on filings - so most likely a group of creditors exercising their rights of control to ensure repayment of loans. Should Steven had been more transparent with us around that point? 100% - but again I don't believe he intended to deceive anyone here.

@dusk bone It is okay to be mad, but don't attack the person, attack the argument. 💔

[buoyant rain]

[wary yew]

You can twist the situation however you want. He lied. Perception is reality. An apology is due. If this was my studio, the first thing I would have done would be apologize to the community.

[dusk bone]

What was showcased vs. what was implemented in your " statement" is so misleading that it would be considered a lie. Clown behaviour. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Which is you. Being a clown. Go dance for your king... dont forget the jingle bells too... he likes the sounds they make.

[candid pewter]

When is the last known example of Steven saying there is no board? Did it happen after he had a board?

[severe berry]

[wind pendant]

755 people still palying and a ass load still bitching, game isnt dead guys too many people obviously still care 😉

[sage fjord]

have tears I laughed so hard employees wanted in on the joke and we all had a good laugh at his unhinged feelings

[grave stone]

🤡 💯 🤡 💯 🤡 💯 🤡 💯 🤡 💯 🤡 💯 🤡 💯 🤡 💯 🤡 💯 🤡 💯

[maiden timber]

[simple oxide]

Perception =/= reality. You can have the wrong perspective of events based on a lack of information or just outright emotional irrationality. This is why it is important to find out what the truth is based on factual evidence. I've been digging into this for hours and hours this week - to me at least, based on what I've listed in #1468844351097405521 he was doing his best to keep the ship afloat and keep it funded. He even sold his house at a loss to his neighbors and took several bridge loans to keep the company going.

If you want to argue that he mismanaged his time and funds I would agree with you - but again, at least based on what is publically available and verifiable I don't see that he lied or omitted the truth. I think he did try to keep this going and funded to completion and just ended up failing in the end.

[plain sluice]

Steven isnt a clown. He is the whole circus.

[dusk bone]

Im going to give Steven the BIGGEST benefit of the doubt here. He didn't scam, he was used. It's not black and white... it's so grey that if you want the actual story from someone that followed every patch, every update, every iteration of content or removal of systems. I can give you the cold hard facts from a neutral standpoint. That is all I can give.

[livid sail]

I 1000% agree with everything in this statment and I think you nailed it and summed it up perfectly for what information is publicly verifable at the moment.

[glossy niche]

Did bro just say Perception is reality ? 😭

[wary yew]

Perception is 100% reality in the realm of business, any competent business owner would tell you this is a fact. If your customers perceived you as scamming them, that's all that matters. Your reputation is destroyed in the eyes of the customer.

You can 100% apologize to your customers (the community) without breaking legal NDA.

[grave stone]

Steven achieved more than you will ever hope to achieve in your whole life in a nano second loser 🤡 They will write on your gravestone "Failed to hit level 26 in Ashes of Creation".

[plain sluice]

take your meds

[heavy obsidian]

Meds won't save him

[molten lintel]

Imagine not hitting 26 in AoC, I can't

[pure crest]

Steven meat riding is crazy rn

[dusk bone]

Its more Grey than you all would think, I can give a tl;dr but even that would be a huge ass essay

[fluid hull]

You were suppose to save us from the SCAMMER, NOT JOIN THEM!

[keen goblet]

Tulnar least popular player race in an MMO ever. 0 players chose it

[simple oxide]

Should he apologize for failing to bring the game to launch? Yeah okay maybe, but it does sound like he is still trying to fight to retain the IP and keep things going. I am just waiting on the legal filings that should be coming out sometime this week to see what is happening and get more details before I rush to judgement on that end. We also don't know how much debt is actually owed here, what percentages of the company he still owns, or how much personal wealth he still has or assets he can leverage to keep things running. It could be as simple as a situation as missing a single payment and the creditor forcing control based on a triggered legal agreement. We really don't know.

I would personally support and say he should apologize for failing to deliver us what he had promised and thanking us for the time and passion we had all invested but he may be wanting to wait until he can show us with legal documentation what happened and what he is doing to try and fix it. I'm personally just going to wait and see in this case.

[slender dagger]

Well obviously its not a majority share if he cant make decisions anymore. He cant even afford to pay his employees whats your excuses on that one?

[thin fiber]

[acoustic harness]

The latest TOP theme that R/MMORPG has released is too ironic. It's literally something that Ashes was trying to do, but of course, since it's Ashes, R/MMORPG has to hate it.

Irony at its finest

[candid pewter]

You can lose control while still owning the majority of shares

[grave stone]

It's not me who needs the meds. You are the one who has been posting 24-7 nonstop and basking in the joy of 250 employees all losing their jobs and livelihoods. There is literally no reason for you to be here anymore...

[dusk bone]

He can't apologize. It would fall upon deaf ears. He tried to torch his own dedicated community with his "yes men/woman/whatever" of developers that probably were not producing anything of value towards the games actual mechanical implementations. I think there were a lot of " bad actors" on the Dev side actively doing nothing. If Quinfall is 6 devs with 1 programmer... just think logically... wtf were 250 people doing ffor that long and nothing was produced. This has a follow up post to it but ill lead you all to the answer you are all looking for. Its a nuanced situation.

[empty pumice]

[plain sluice]

I have only been here since yesterday. I dont enjoy the fact that those people lost their jobs, it kinda sucks. I will say that all of this was Stevens fault in biting off more than he could chew and fucking over his entire company.

[wary yew]

I don't disagree fully, all it would have taken would be an apology like below. If this was my project that I put 10 years into, I would have at least said something similar.

Example, not actually said by anyone:
"*I want to offer a sincere apology for the distress and disappointment many of you are feeling right now. You placed your trust, your passion, and in many cases your money behind my vision — and the current situation is not what you deserved.

While I can’t yet share all the details due to ongoing legal and governance issues, I want to be clear: I did everything in my power to protect this project and the people behind it. I stepped away when I could no longer stand behind the direction being taken.

I am truly sorry for the uncertainty this has caused, and for the silence that legal constraints have forced upon me. You’ve been the lifeblood of this journey, and I carry deep regret that it’s come to this moment*"

[kindred turtle]

i accept your apology

[simple oxide]

So you can still retain "ownership or majority ownership" of a company and lose legal decision making control if creditors as part of their lending agreements exercise their rights for repayment. The only company we know of having any ownership other than Steven is Ya Ya and that is between 5-9%. All of the other UCC filings don't provide any stock ownership documentation.

Since I can't link it here go to your favorite search engine or LLM and ask "How can someone maintain ownership in a company and lose decision making control to their creditors?" it should give you the answer for what likely happened in this situation.

@dusk bone Quinfall is using primarily UE5 assets and the engine without any changes - much of what is in that game is pretty much just copy and paste... If AoC did that you would probably riot lol. Not to mention that Quinfall pvp and systems are janky as shit. There may have been bad actors not doing work but I don't think that's fair considering how many systems AoC had in it and how ambitious the game was - plus when they did switch from UE4 to UE5 in December of 2021 they made the point of telling us how they had to redo much of the back end, environment, graphics, tools, etc. This aligns with what I know personally about game dev but also what others have confirmed to me. You're seeing about 4 and a half years of development here with the new engine.

@wary yew I can agree with that.

[quaint ledge]

Any news yet

[dusk bone]

Correct, but other things need priority over dwarves with beards ( canonically female dwarves have beards but was it needed? Really? REALLLLY?)

[verbal echo]

guys its over. let it go. go hang out with your wives

[slender dagger]

You failed to talk about the failed payments to the employees that employees are sueing intrepid over. You are also admitting that Steven said I dont like a decision my own board made so im quitting

[fervent raft]

I will only address the actual quotes you state Steven made as the rest appears to be summation.

2017 "primarily self-funding"
The word primarily is key as I believe Steven was primarily self-funding at this point. We know at least one Promissory Note was entered into with Ya-Ya Legacy Trust that allowed conversion to shares and at this point it appears the Yaya contribution was $1M as the additional $1M Subsequent Investment option was not yet exercised so it is very likely that Steven was the primary funder as the kickstarter raised a little over $3M and I think Steven had mentioned around $30M of self-funding around the startup.

2019 "backed by my personal funding that makes up the largest portion of the game’s development."
*
I think this still could be true as we are not privy to any agreement other than the Yaya group and it was 2019 when Ya-Ya exercised the right to convert to shares which I personally believe to be (based on reading original Promissory Note, Amendment, and Stock Purchase Agreement) 5.3% rather than the commonly believed 9.7 If Steven had invested $30M for the startup and continued to cover expenses out of his personal assets, this statement could very well be true.

2021 "I’m funding the project, so no investors or a board to answer to"

Key wording here is Steven is not stating there are no investors, he is stating there are no investors or a Board to answer to. I do not believe there was an internal Board at this point and even if Yaya and/or other investors had voting rights, this does not mean they majority control and could direct decisions.

Now, do I think the comments over the years and lack of transparency on loans/promissory notes and when some of these entities became investors is misleading, yes.

[topaz gull]

my $10 says that sinbad is actually steven's alt account.

[simple oxide]

Yeah except we know from Steven's prior statements he never wanted there to be a board, "board" being a colloquial term for a governing body that has decision making control. He resigned when they wanted to layoff the majority of the studio and ship production overseas which I think is fair considering he was attempting to force their hand and keep things in the USA with their studio.

The decision to layoff everyone was done after Steven resigned so this wouldn't be on him as a decision he made but a consequence of trying to fight what was happening and losing that fight.

@topaz gull lolol you're welcome to listen to my beautiful voice here: https:// youtu.be/jYtgKXmP1hA?si=fqYoQgUgRq03yN5m

[dusk bone]

Removing the arena mmo pvp style was a mistake and that was on prior iterations of the Ue5 engine making combat feel slower and worse. It didnt need to be updated to the latest iteration EVERY TIME. It was causing burnout for your real techs that were picking up the slack for the "niche" game devs. ( I work in a deli but I only put the toppings on the order, sorry!)

[grave stone]

Steven achieved more than you will ever hope to achieve in your whole life in a nano second loser They will write on your gravestone "Failed to hit level 26 in Ashes of Creation".

[empty pumice]

[pure crest]

this has gotta be bad ragebait lmao. Try again buddy

[candid pewter]

Funny way to cope with a perspective you disagree with.

[topaz gull]

lol

[rare garden]

It's over, pack it up fellas. It's ok, we're getting plenty of crazy games this year.

[plain sluice]

Yeah im hyped for Palword full release and Oldschool Maplestory

[glossy niche]

it has only begun

[wary yew]

See, I don't think this is fair, from everything we know, they initially wanted to just fire 100 people, which was needed. No way around it, they were out of money. California salaries are too expensive for game dev.

The studio really didn't need 200+ people, by resigning, from everything we know, that ultimately killed the project instead of keeping it on life support via outsourced devs / cheap labor.

[candid pewter]

If they couldn't pay their emloyees their last paycheck, it doesn't sound like firing half of them would get them much additional time.

[winged matrix]

guys they fucked up, it happens to the best of us, in 10 years we will learn what happened if we still care no need to make stories from thin air

[queen forge]

Everywhere is too expensive for game dev if you take 10 years to ship an alpha. Thats the reality, you have no business in the industry as a new player if you can't release a product in 4, maybe 5 years

[wary yew]

Fair, but I think the employee creep was more fatal than the scope creep. 200 employees is a shit ton.

[timber pulsar]

I still cared about what happened to Superfuse two years later
I'm pretty sure I'll care about the final story for Ashes when it eventually comes out in full

In the meantime, I started playing Project Gorgon. Who else loves having to figure out where shit is on their own? Lack of map markers is amazing. "Go find this tent outside town" and it took me 30 minutes to find it. And I'm not even mad 😂

[spare raven]

The employee creep happened because of the scope creep, which happened literally from the Kickstarter stretch goals

[grave stone]

I don't see it as rage bait. I see it as factual truth... unless you single-handedly setup your own gaming company, employed hundreds of employees doing their dream jobs for years and released the most anticipated MMO since WOW, unless you did create WOW?

[atomic rock]

i need my 100$ back

[plain sluice]

You're not gonna get it back. Rest in peace Rain's 100 dollar bill.

[pure crest]

Is the game released? lol Stevens not gonna come suck you off man

[kind prism]

Can you do it instead then?

[quick yew]

AOC is the biggest scam of the decade and y'all are clowns for buying into it

[timber pulsar]

The bigger clown is the one trying to clown people to get over it himself 🤷‍♀️

[fickle sedge]

If the games going to die we can at least be sucking each other off, there has to be joy to life.

[candid pewter]

Amazing how many comments in here read like Golum berating himself.

[glossy niche]

He hasnt been online for a bit. Give him a minute he's busy

[empty pumice]

[grave stone]

🤡 👍 💯

[austere bay]

Steven is to busy getting his stink eye stretched out

[pure crest]

Thats what I expected as a response, gj man. Just let your dream for the game die, find something else.

[timber pulsar]

I'm pretty sure Steven never said he would say anything...
We should be looking for the public filings, I think

[burnt pelican]

gave this mfer everything short of my first born child

[warm sleet]

You are too invested. Take a walk, get some puss. Live a real life bro.

[misty rivet]

Our lord and savior Steven has not abandoned us- he’s merely in a long, sexy, mysterious dev retreat. Fear not- he shall return. Stay faithful. (Steven i love you call me back)

[simple oxide]

based on Zybak's video that got taken down we should be getting more details this week - I'm checking the superior court website for when the legal filings get upload and when they do i'll be digging through them to see what they say and mean. this whole process though is going to take a while

[thin fiber]

[empty pumice]

[faint flare]

@vague leaf

[modest skiff]

nah. fuck em

[glossy niche]

Where did you get the 50 million from ? 😭 If we gave him 50 mil the game would still be getting developed

[candid valley]

Steven is in mykonos after seeing such hate he yoloed

[tall valley]

Ashes will get released in 2027 by the gold sellers after they purchase it and there will be no bots and heavy pay to win.

[neat wharf]

Yeah the only difference between our actual Lord and savior and Steven is one won't forsake you for money

[austere knoll]

still haven't got my refund from steam...

[wooden furnace]

50m in revenue is not enough to fund a MMO made in the US, like how fucking stupid are you guys

[maiden timber]

[thin fiber]

❤️ <@&542059693779058748> ❤️
love for the mods

[modest skiff]

50m is basically nothing in the big picture

[unreal wedge]

Thank you

[pure crest]

True. I appreciate the mods and the random staff for this game. I am very unhappy with Steven.

[glossy niche]

Where did they show that 200k people bought the 250 pack ? I didnt buy it for 250 dollars and Ive been playing since phase 1 ?

@modest skiff They didnt earn 50 mil.

[tight birch]

Thank you

[candid pewter]

Yep, at the latest claimed burn rate that is a little more than 1 year of development.

[lavish hollow]

Love for @next glen

[sage peak]

God bless the people still ravenously fighting in this damn chat for a game with less players than Highguard

[plain sluice]

I am only here to read comments and eat popcorn

[acoustic harness]

[balmy orchid]

Any new news other then we need to wait because of legal stuff ?
@fast forum thx ^^

[modest skiff]

not saying they did sell 50m, just that its not much in the big picture. steven is laughably incompetent with the pace of development and giving away ownership share of his own company. good riddance. and nothing will actually happen to him

[fast forum]

So far not that I can see

[abstract tapir]

Ok, so if we know for sure there was a board in 2024/2025 and Steven made those statements prior to 2024, then where is the lie exactly.

[echo bronze]

[wary yew]

What? Did you even read my thread?

[glossy niche]

earning 50 mil in the big picture would be huge because most projects dont earn anything until a product is release.

Steven was obviously completely incompetent in running the studio, not hiring project managers and being the top man in every departmant.

I was just disputing what other person was saying in terms of amount of money earned from the project before release. We don't know how much money Steven put into the game himself. But yea if they had an extra 20-30 mil even that could have helped then push it over the edge for release and all would be good.

[plain sluice]

🍆 💦

[modest skiff]

at their pace, 20-30m is nowhere close. assuming it kept going (its dead jim) probably at least 3-4 years

[wooden furnace]

brother no one gives a fuck, your not getting an apology while a lawsuit is ongoing. Like how fucking stupid are you? Keep crying about numbers while everyone with a brain waits for the info to come out

[simple oxide]

You realize the likely average cost of running the studio was around $40mil per year (ramping up over time from the KS.) Ks made just over 3m, summer backer was a fraction of that - the number of reported supporters didn't mean people who had bought packages either just those who had followed at some point. I dont doube they got something close to $40mil over time in backer packages but it definitely wasn't enough if you compare it to the expected 120mil spent over the years.

[abstract tapir]

Any statements made by Steven regarding there not being a board prior to 2024/2025 (or whenever there was factual evidence of a board) can be labeled as truthful.

[austere oak]

[hard nimbus]

I like money

[jolly raptor]

pls change your name to microslop to properly display your greed

[wary yew]

If you think there were no investors / stakeholders other than Steven prior to 2025 you are insane.

read my thread @kind prism

[kind prism]

Investors does not equal a board

[modest skiff]

publicly legally disclosed board, sure. private investors he sold equity to.... probably years. arguing semantics

[solid root]

[empty birch]

looks like steven and his "stink eye" is living free up there bruh

[plain sluice]

🍆 💦

[glossy niche]

They were scheduled to release the game this year, it would have been a pretty stripped down version but still the game would have started getting consistent money from subs

@sand mantle Your numbers are off and you should take a rest. It was only game, youre more invested then Steven was at this point 😭

[wooden furnace]

Once again you are just really fucking stupid expecting someone to make statements/apologize while a multi million dollar lawsuit is going on.

[gaunt sigil]

Why are the servers still up? Who is paying for that?!

[olive flax]

me

[mossy torrent]

they are probably up until they break

[fading meadow]

me and some others who arent into mad coping, but can just enjoy the moment

[austere oak]

[wary yew]

You can legally apologize, if you are going to address my above chats at least @ me directly.

As long as a statement:

Doesn’t reveal confidential information
Doesn’t assert disputed facts as truth
Doesn’t accuse the other party of misconduct directly
Doesn’t confess breach or wrongdoing

It's entirely legal to apologize.

[hollow lagoon]

I like money too. We should hang out.

[weary violet]

yall dont got jobs or family or something 😭

[modest skiff]

yes because they had no reputation of making statements when something is coming only to delay it over and over. your right. totally launch worthy, you genuinely have to be brain dead to think this launched this year. remember... ITS ONLY AN ALPHA... 1 month progress in 4 months. peak delusion

[empty pumice]

[empty birch]

Ohai there Vteven

[wooden furnace]

I litteraly replied to who i was talking about lmfao. And what you want is a bullshit PR statement that gives 0 info. We are not getting anything relevant untill more lawsuit info drops. Expecting steven to put out a meaningful statement is fucking stupid

[glossy niche]

From leaks we know they had an insanely massive update coming March 31st. Like yes Intrepid was completely incompetent in running the project in such a way that they work on literally every single small thing at the very same time. But seeing the leaks and previous updates. The did put always put out big updates every half - a year at a time.

Also there is no need to be calling people names, it aint that serious

[candid pewter]

Having stakeholders is not the same thing as having a board.

[fading meadow]

happily divorced for 16 years, raised kids alone, studying now, early retired and doing only music and games, spend 80 bucks since 24/7 server available, played around 300-500hrs last phase and close to 800 this phase.
Enjoy if you can or cope by beeig mad hating

[wary yew]

An apology is meaningful if its sincere, he has yet to issue one. Expecting an apology is not stupid.

[modest skiff]

cope. just 1 more bi quarterly update and it will be good because they said so... fuck im so high that im about to pass out

[empty pumice]

[ruby oak]

LF Guild, any recruiting?

[wooden furnace]

An apology without an acknowledgment of wrong doing is meaningless and only there to apese people with the thought process of a 3rd grader. Expecting someone to admit to wrong doing while in a multi million dollar lawsuit is really fucking stupid. We all bought an alpha MMO on our own free will, expecting an apology because it failed it pretty stupid

[candid pewter]

He said it was heartbreaking to see the effect on the community. If you want him to publicly declare that he is to blame before a legal battle, that is just not going to happen.

[fading meadow]

🌊 The Turquoise Tide 🌊
is a tribe of the Niküan.
Become part of the family and make the Turquoise Sea your home. 🌋 🌴
RPvX guild seeks special players, no Discord, stop gaming—start roleplaying! 🍹

@empty pumice

[wary yew]

@wooden furnace @candid pewter it's not meaningless, you are just wrong. I never said he needs to plubicly declare he is to blame, you are putting words in my mouth.

See the aforementioned post in reply.

[plain sluice]

🤡 🤡

[harsh carbon]

After getting a refund from Steam (only took me 10 tickets to them), now have to decide what to spend my money on. Any other good games out there? Hmm

[candid pewter]

What would be an acceptable apology that does not admit wrongdoing at this time?

Clearly saying the effect on the community and employees is "heartbreaking" won't cut it for you. What would?

[proud mist]

I hope steam black lists you from buying.

[wooden furnace]

Thinking you can apologize without acknowledging wrong doing is just self reporting you are really immature tbh. And expecting it when legal stuff is going on shows a lack of experience in anything related to the legal system.

[modest skiff]

🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡

[spice stump]

[empty pumice]

[wary yew]

You are a fucking idiot.

@candid pewter You literally ignored my example I posted above that I linked.

[subtle bough]

Are the servers still up? Or have any died yet since no restarts?

[fervent raft]

I am not certain if this is something he will show up and reference or link so perhaps you can keep an eye out. My suggestion for a few search areas for lawsuit would be Los Angeles, Seminole County Florida, Kent County DE and Scottsdale Az to name a few.

[glad dome]

Oh no, you're asking some adults to take some accountability in their actions. Big ask

[fading meadow]

[lapis dagger]

Yall looking forward on Friday stream?

[harsh carbon]

Why would Steam blacklist me from buying when they are the ones who gave me a Full Refund on the Ashes purchase? …….

[midnight garnet]

Well I wont get my 375$ from Steven, but my son's account got a Steam refund today! Thanks Gabe, gonna buy the GabeCube!

[proud mist]

As a game devloper I have halted all steam sales, and asked for clarification on their refund policy and 'random' 'rolled' chances.

[candid pewter]

I doubt saying "i'm sorry" without admitting what he did wrong would feel any more sincere than saying it was heartbreaking.

[wooden furnace]

Your litteraly in here crying because you didnt get a PR apology written by a lawyer that dosnt address the actual topic lmfao. Your stuck in elementry school mindset that thinking saying sorry means something lmfao

[modest skiff]

if your a game developer, i would hope you understand the platform well enough to understand that under extreme circumstances their policies change

[plain sluice]

I guess its back to farming Gogmazios for me 🙂

[wary yew]

You're*

Self report brainlet.

[spice stump]

🇷 ℹ️🇸 🇪 🇺 🇵 🇨 🇴 🇵 🇮 🇺 🇲 🇸 🇶 🇺 🇦 🇩

[glad dome]

Obsessing over spelling as a form of intelligence is also self reporting as a midwit

[fading meadow]

i'm playing, servers running with some flaws regarding mobs desync

@lapis dagger never watched any of the streams or got into corporate business or marketing talk. Maybe thats also a reason i still can have fun plaing and are mentally sane.

[proud mist]

I have halted my sales and complained that they are randomly applying their strict/standard policy. Either refund 100% or stick to policy. Rolling the dice and per reddit 'Daily task mission refund' trying to get a positive roll.. abhorrent! makes steam unreliable. Either refund 100%, or stick 100% to policy.. black and white, not random employee grey area. ugh...

[modest skiff]

sounds like a skill issue lil bud. unless you plan on scamming people with your 'game' as well. you have nothing to worry about 🙂

[prisma pier]

Bro, if you don't pull a rug I'm sure you'd be fine....

[midnight garnet]

Sure you did. They tried to pull a last scam and Steam didn't want anything to do with it. So they kept the money as they should, go read up "merchant of record", since the user's credit card statement says "Steam" and not "ScamGame Inc," the platform is the one responsible for the refund process. Although there is a no no-service guarantee, they have the headache with the refunds, and reputation, thus the payout bufferzone and refunds beyond the usual scope.

Anything else is just bootlicking for a scammer and you're being r-worded.

[wooden furnace]

Its always the really fucking stupid people who do it. Realize they have no way of responding to what you actually said so they soy out about spelling mistakes

[wary yew]

Grammar mistake not a spelling mistake. Don't get mad at me that you don't know how to communicate.

[frozen dagger]

Anyone tryna run forge

[austere knoll]

Steven are you top or bottom?

[wooden furnace]

You already soyed out and blocked me why are you still replying lmfaooooo. Are you really this triggered your sitting in a chat for a dead MMO to click on blocked messages to reply to? lmfaoooooooooooooooooo

[violet frost]

We all have our vices

[midnight garnet]

He's the end of a human centipede.

[plain sluice]

I actually didnt know he was gay

[orchid quail]

Crazy how there hasn't been some type of announcement for anything at all

[wary yew]

I filter out stupid people, It's still fun to see the clowns like yourself dance though sometimes, can't help it.

[fervent raft]

What announcement are you expecting?

[eternal delta]

Dev stream soon letsgo

[wooden furnace]

You filter out people only to camp their blocked messages to reply to? You gotta spin your naritives better lil bro. Your just sitting here triggered watching my name typing because your so fucking mad you need to click that blocked message to repond to lmfaooooooooooooooooooooo

[austere knoll]

Do u think I can hook up with Steven and make scam together? I have idea for pokemon kickstarter

[midnight garnet]

More positive vibe corpo speak. He did that to the last minute he could, to keep people engaged and kept purchases rolling. And then some ®etards like SirParadox come in and complain that Steam, who's reputation is on the line in such cases "changed their refund policy" and his game no-longer will be on sale.

Which is of course bullshit. No-one will halt sales because of that, not even bigger ®etards like PirateSoftware. Who whined extensively because he got called a ferretfkr :DDD

[torpid burrow]

Anyone have any legendary copper to trade?

[acoustic swift]

Did they put slow mode in threads What the fuck man why are you fucking mods are still trying? What's the achieve? Do you morons think you guys hold the peace here. There is nothing to fucking worry about just let it riot this server has no fuckin purpose lmao

[kind prism]

No slow mode in the thread I use

[wary yew]

Again, you're, not your.

[torpid burrow]

If they could read they would be upset

[wooden furnace]

I didnt think you would take the bait and reply again, your actually so fucking stupid and obsessed lmfao. I can see your blue hair from here with how fucking triggered you are

[mental rover]

my 1 week mute is over

[mint gale]

great to have you back in this thriving and vibrant community

[timber basalt]

MORTAL ONLINE 2 come try out very fun and hard core to play all kind of stuff to do fun and frustate, is coming out a new pach with total new map POIs and creaturesd never seen come and try MORTAL ONLINE 2 WITH NEW EXPANSSION!

[candid pewter]

You are looking just as triggered. lol

[nocturne solar]

I really gotta get off this shit. Today I dreamt of AOC and how evil Steven banned me, fuckin hell. (pls dont do it)

[loud gyro]

New milestone unlocked for Ashes, this is the first day since the Steam EA where it didn't hit 1k players

[maiden timber]

[plain sluice]

This is great news. People are quitting and moving on to better games. W

[dusty wadi]

682 bots remain sir

[austere knoll]

Did you guys got steam refund? Got direct message to support declined like 5x times in row

[wary berry]

how many hours did you play ?

[wooden furnace]

only one of us blocked the other to continue reading and replying to blocked messages lmfao

[wary yew]

Your = possessive adjective
Your brain is tiny.

You’re = you are.
You’re an idiot.

If this is confusing:
Ask a kindergartener. They usually get it.

[livid oasis]

' means it's an abbreviation. You're = you are and it's = it is etc...

[cunning nacelle]

So is ash of creation shutting down??

[kind prism]

I thought it was shutting up

[old sentinel]

No, they are actually doing better than ever, they just hired 250 Devs and issued a California everything is going great Act notice

[wooden furnace]

Real talk though, why block me if all you wana do is soy out about my spelling and keep replying, im interested. Is it like a personal thing you do for yourself so you can feel like you won the conversation? Even though you cant help yourself to keep replying? Are you actually just this triggered over someone calling you whiny complaints out? Do you really just need big daddy steven to say hes sorry so you can get over your 40$ loss to a video game? Whats going on lil bro you can talk about it here, its a safe space for idiots.

[loud gyro]

So who's going to say that they were correct grammar, not spelling?

[dusty wadi]

The irony here is that you cant punctuate, spell, or use grammar correctly and you're calling other people idiots. LOL

[wary yew]

I’m not reading all that. I’m happy for you, or sorry that happened.

[potent arrow]

What's the latest update on everything?

[mortal crystal]

Can one of you broke bums just buy this game already so I can play it again?

[cunning nacelle]

Oh ok well that good still…and man this 5 min timer sucks lol! Why do we have to wait 5 whole min just to text??

[prisma pier]

The games so popular, everyones talking so much discord would break otherwise

[fervent raft]

I was asking the question to Dakkon who mentioned it was crazy that there was no announcement yet as it appeared they might have been referring to a couple comments Steven made last week requesting patience for the next week and suggesting that as public filings come out, things would become more clear.

Is this what your ‘positive vibe corpo speak and Steven doing this at the last minute he could to keep people engaged and the purchases rolling in' was referring to?

If so, what would be the point if Steven had already stated that control had shifted away from him, he had already resigned, already knew the entire employee base received WARN act notices and, if what we hear is accurate, he likely knew that Valve was withhold payment?

[austere knoll]

200 BUT HALF IN QUEQE
Because it is a scam muppet? Did not even get to 25 lvl, nothing working game bugged as hell 90% of my play time is afk pathetic fishing or quege in Joeva

[old sentinel]

It’s got slow mode because if it didn’t we wouldn’t be able to read anything server going so fast

[wary berry]

ok so why would you think you warrant a refund ?

[half panther]

sounds like skill issue

[wooden furnace]

Glad to here that buddy. Keep crying to steven though your really close to getting him to apologize. In fact he owes it to you the most, you really lost out on so much content. I saw it when you were in sails so scared to pvp the only thing you did was kill bots the entire phase lmfao

[median wigeon]

@vague leaf Hello Steven, can we get some news about all those ? We need some, at least for those who believe a bit. On the 13th February is the stream canceled ? Thanks a lot !

[unique canyon]

@here - Everyone excited for this week's dev stream!? I hear they are introducing the new archetype combinations.

[violet frost]

millionaires suing millionaires

[trim pelican]

You guys should try Project Gorgon because it's crazy good. Better than Ashes, way more content and made by 2 people.

[glossy meteor]

What about Star Citizen

[mental ridge]

Return to rift all of you

[wary yew]

Yeah true, I should have swiped my credit card on week 1 like you did so that I could end game PVP. Next time I'll swipe early and post my swiped gear to flex in general. Still around and not going anywhere btw.

[atomic spire]

Guild Wars 2 let's go

[simple oxide]

Star Citizen and Crono Odyssey are both im currently keeping an eye on but haven't invested in yet - both look promising though

[dusty wadi]

New update coming soon for GW2 as well. Should be interesting to see what they all do in the notes.

[wooden furnace]

Never spent a single cent on this game outside of the purchase, sorry your so bad at the game you didnt know how to make gold 🤣 . Spent the entire phase avoiding pvp to still be bad

[slow moat]

ya super excited been waiting forever

[gray stone]

Chrono Odyssey, hmm.. I'm looking at GW2, Warframe/Soulframe and I'm still debating with myself atm. Le sigh

[wary yew]

You're so bad*

You will figure it out at some point.

[wooden furnace]

Lmfao get caught saying something stupid again so you go back to crying about spelling. How about you post proof i bought gold? Ill have shotts remove my rank and kick me from the discord if you can show the evidence.

[earnest cedar]

Do you guys really have so little going for you, you have to come pick fights in a discord for a dead game. Go play the game called IRL

[mighty tinsel]

I still have people DM me claiming I bought gold solely cause my name is purple. Even after the game is dead. It’ll never stop

[trim pelican]

Keep an eye on Apogea and Monsters & Memories

[fading meadow]

is Kuthara back?

[glad ice]

ashes of discombobulation

[kind prism]

Some of the worst combat in an MMO so no thanks

[glossy niche]

Ashes of burning money

[wooden furnace]

Its because they are fucking terrible at the game but have ego so anyone better than them has to be cheating. This dude joined our guild, never came to any pvp events, just sat with his little friend group and bragged about killing bots all day. Just irrelevant and bad players

[dusty wadi]

MH Wilds released an optimization patch, and it’s way smoother now than it was before. So if you were on the fence about it, I can say it now plays much better. I haven’t had any issues since the patch.

[fading meadow]

Es muss Kindergärtner°innen heißen oder besser Erzieher°innen. Thank me later

[wary yew]

It's good to let your rage out, getting caught is upsetting I know.

[timber pulsar]

free leeks
donations welcomed
come and get them before I run out

[wooden furnace]

You going to send the proof to shotts and get me kicked? You wouldnt just be lying because your too dogshit to understand how to make gold right?

[eager agate]

Why we fighting over a dead game?

[fading meadow]

can you help me getting gold, how did you do it . Crates on new routes/ settlements r3 or sportfishing exploits or what is the trick?

[wary yew]

A lion doesn’t concern himself with the opinion of sheep.

[wooden furnace]

Saying this as perhaps the most irrelevant member of black sails is funny as fuck

[tepid turret]

: (

[wary yew]

I'm glad you are laughing and not raging now.

[frank jolt]

So no steven update tody? @vague leaf ?

[wooden furnace]

Yeah scrolled up to your 12 year old understanding of apologies and your begging steven for attention and had a good laugh.

[wary yew]

You used your correctly this time, nice job.

[spring lily]

how many losers here still think this game wasnt a scam from the start?

[fluid hull]

wonder if SC will pull a bigger rug pull then ashes?

[earnest cedar]

Don't attribute to malice what can easily be explained by stupidity. This was financial missmanagement and gross incompetence, not a scam

[bold mirage]

Stealing a quote and then using it improperly, especially in this context, is genuine irony porn for those like me whom enjoy it's sweet bitter taste.

[rustic lava]

🤡 🤪

[frosty dirge]

how is he using it wrong and how do you steal a quote it is litterally meant to be used

[pseudo token]

It’s a shame you didn’t have a game designer directly at the studio @vague leaf . Your friend Jon Arellano leaked the entire Ash map assets, lol! There were some really good ideas and beautiful things in there

[rustic lava]

They need to start leaking more so some mega nerd can make a private server

[eternal crow]

so can somone explain if we getting no update but keeping servers up surely 1 person do a server restart so we can try enjoy some of the game

[candid pewter]

It wasn't used improperly... weird taste in irony.

[kind prism]

Arrelano hasn't worked at Intrepid for like 7 years

[upper hare]

No news yet? 🙁

[acoustic harness]

[maiden timber]

[willow junco]

doomed

[simple oxide]

likely this week - Zybak's video leaked dm's with steven who said it was being filed either last friday or today - there is a delay from when they get filed to when they get posted though so it can take a bit to see it on the Superior Court website

[eternal crow]

btw i dont know if anyone has checked this but the ashes of creation website, the accounts paige is no longer showing in the inventory the promised goodies per kickstarter backers items anymore

[weak silo]

the gilded scarab ruined everything

[nocturne solar]

fuckin beetle

[proven smelt]

Game is still up, LETS GO!!!

[simple oxide]

I still have them on my page? I'll send you the screenshots but I do still see them

[wraith geyser]

This wouldn’t have happened if he just made me admin

[eternal crow]

i have the confirmation of the founder pack but nothing showing the items

[fading meadow]

it would maybe also not have happen if people were not cheating, botting and RMT'ing aka buying from exploiters, hackers and botters

[smoky shuttle]

!stream

[fading meadow]

I have hope and faith
Server restarts would be great so we can just keep playing/ testing as normal.
I dont listen to negativity and doomsayers - just having fun roleplaying the game.

[chilly tangle]

Poor mind

[marsh quarry]

Doom Sayers? The game has no staff not even Steven? Like no staff at all in the building do you have brain rot?

[frosty dirge]

considering how hytale came back from being scrapped i dont see why it would be impossible to for it to happen for AOC tho i agree its very unlikely XD

[pallid dagger]

They havent even made a SINGLE one of the classes or got the server tech working in 10 years. People actually believing steven is a victim in this scenario is crazy mental gymnastics.

[plain sluice]

Steven is a buffoon.

[teal hearth]

RIP Ashes.... See you all on ArcheAge Classic 👍

[simple oxide]

unfortunately I dont think anyone has access to those at the moment - probably just up until the server pre-paid time expires

[lost jewel]

I must say, dev team did exceeded expectations in terms of how long servers could run autonomously

[winter mountain]

The post server shut down reality check might finally get it through some peoples skulls that the game is dead.

@fading meadow I mean sure. But now that the head guy is having to take the legal route, we have to be realistic. Hope, Cope, Optimism I get it. However it is, for the intents and purposes of discussion right now, dead.

@simple oxide I guess, but I would not touch this game for any reason until release. I also doubt that the current board has any intention on doing anything other than recouping money, so any endpoint for this game isn't a bright one.

[fading meadow]

imagine playing games litehearted and beeing positive and not hating as a coping strategy.
Imagine to read and be empathic.
Imagine someone reads the moderators pinned message and thinks at least some educated grown ups here not clinging to their negativity bias.

[rugged crypt]

[simple oxide]

TBF - there is the possibility the IP survives in some state - if it does we may actually see the resurrection of the game at some point in the future. one can hope at least lol

[ivory quartz]

@maiden timber Spoilers Ventus

[fading meadow]

the game is dead when they announce the game is dead, not when the Servers shutting down.
It's an alpha still and i'm still playtesting.

[maiden timber]

[plain sluice]

Testing for who

[winter mountain]

If it helps you sleep at night, more power to you. For the sake of everyone who invested any money into this game I hope the game survives, but as a pragmatic person I do not see a path forward.

[hidden axle]

[simple oxide]

imagine if the IP of AoC was under a different legal entity this entire time and Intrepid was just an umbrella corp - then Steven just goes to court and says Intrepid has no assets and moves on with the game 😂 (okay this is real tinfoil hat cope)

[winter mountain]

Supreme, top tier, copium. You cotta pass that around for the rest of us.

[solar raven]

is the game still dead or happend something?

[fading meadow]

i payed 80€ when the Servers were available 24/7 i have never put more than 100€ into any Early Access or game or anything. I'm plaiyng since 1984 and dont exagerate about gaming or anything. If people "invest" in playing games they do something wrong from the ground go imho and rather compensating something lacking in their lifes maybe. That also explains the vast emotional reactions and bad coping they have when they are overly toxic and hating for 7 days now.
I wish all of you to reflect better what you do and calm down and let things go that stress you.
I'm still playing and i have fun and arent touched like you all ssem to be touched.
I can sleep with or without it. There is other games i can play and already played for thousands of hours like The Isle or completely different games.
Wish you all the best, stop making your life sad and hatefull, if you get older like me your heart and body will maybe thank you 🫶

[outer estuary]

[lost jewel]

At this point, i believe that at least some part of audience sits here just to learn what happened and how plot will progress.

This all is like reading detective story realtime.

[timber pulsar]

May be a dumb question (no skewer pls k thx) but why are reactions disabled?

[winter mountain]

I just couldn't take getting another clown emoji.

[timber pulsar]

😂 (Five minutes later.....)

[thin fiber]

[idle hornet]

🤡

[winter mountain]

oh, look up my comments from the day before shit hit the fan, was nothing but clown emoji's

[plain sluice]

🤡 here is one from me, on the house, freshly baked

[winter mountain]

another one for the collection. ♥️

[iron pollen]

Steven when he comes back and saves them all and turns their huge operational deficit into a magical profit - duh!

[fervent raft]

Leaked? 🤔

Zybak comes across as pretty irresponsible and not having a clear understanding of what is being presented to him, he just jumps out of the gate and runs with it.

I understood exactly what was going on with the deed stuff last week and yet, as a streamer, he didn’t bother to take the same due diligence in attempting to understand or verify the shit he spread to others via his stream.

I have a copy of those deeds and nothing has changed in the last week, Zybak just didn’t understand an Interspousal Transfer Deed with a concurrent sale to the new owner.

I saw the video he posted the other day titled “Steven Sharif recently spoke with me, and he presented documents that may exonerate him? What do you think?” followed by more clickbait “Steven Sharif Innocent? He sent me the documents!"

After that video was taken down, a second video was posted titled “Clarification on my last video about Steven Sharif - Clerical Errors, Swapped Dates, Mislabeled etc.”

The actual point was a bit confusing, but I think he was simply doing damage control in stating Steven didn’t make him take it down, he simply showed things in his video that violated Youtube privacy rules.

Umm, okay people can believe what they want but I would not be one-bit surprised had Steven shared things in confidence that he ran and posted for views. Do better Zybak

[lost jewel]

Should provide them appropriate accommodation.
Here, some help from me : 🎪
😂

[plain sluice]

Im not gonna lie to you, seeing the state that this Discord has turned into has been x100 entertaining than actually playing Ashes of Creation

[winter mountain]

I am not a clown, as far as chat is concerned, I am the whole ass circus 🎪

[lost jewel]

Strength in numbers! 😁

@plain sluice real gameplay 🙂

[fading meadow]

i have a saying about music beeing a musician myself.
If you turn an art into a business you will maybe earn money but lose something way more important, your freedom and your lighthearted aproach doing music. Maybe you are that good so it doesnt touch you, but thats very exceptional imho.
I think the saying aplies also to gaming. If you make playing games (not making games) your business you lose your freedom and lighthearted aproach to playing games.
You all remember when you played as little kids and what it has become over time?

[winter mountain]

verbal PvP is more fun than in game PvP.

[simple oxide]

So hyper copium mode - passes bong for a puff

I had ChatGPT run a search for me on if it can verify who actually owns the IP of Ashes of Creation. It was able to find the trademark being under Intrepid Studios but no copyright exists and no legal or court filings showing that it actually owns the IP itself just the name. That being said all but one of the UCC filings dont mention AoC directly and the one that does lists it as a separate legal entity to Intrepid Studios... (that filing is expired btw)

Chat GPT even thinks it is possible that the IP may be under its own shell company and not directly owned by Intrepid Studios. (this is of course unlikely but it is POSSIBLE)

What is more, none of the corporation documents filed with the state of California by Intrepid Studios Inc show that it owns the IP.

okay im done lmao

[tranquil echo]

gimme more pls

[twin grove]

ChatGPT doesn't "think". Man you rely on AI for way too much stuff.

[south cradle]

What IP, though? There’s no significance placed in the lore or story of the world. The actual game systems and everything else wouldn’t qualify for an independent IP, and all that stuff was worked on by the Studio

[jolly raptor]

bruh chatgpt makes up random shit to give you something that looks like a real answer

[whole glacier]

BIBIgpt doesnt think but it sure tells you what to think

[winter mountain]

ChatGPT is super unreliable, and hallucinates all the time. Dead ass it will just tell you what you want to hear, regardless of accuracy.

I have given it a white paper and asked it to give me quotes for certain things in that paper, and not a single thing was in the paper.

[tribal thicket]

Ai rn is just a glorified search engine at best for stuff like chatgpt it's basically just Google but it can use more words 🤣

[hidden mirage]

I’d like a final video from Steven, so that we can move into closure since we all feel like we have travelled this development journey with him, either though paying and playing, and or watching the monthly development streams. I would be grateful if he would clarify one way or another so that we can just move on

[iron pollen]

💯

[simple oxide]

lolol all the people above me missed that I was making a joke based on one of my earlier posts above... and yeah I use it primarily as a search engine 😂 hence the copium references.. but it would be funny if Steven was pulling some 500IQ move to get out of debt and retain the IP

[teal skiff]

When are subclasses coming out

[shadow frigate]

End of March

[obsidian ether]

2nd tuesday of next week

[twin grove]

I remember when search engines actually just gave sources instead of just making shit up.

[fading meadow]

patience is a virtue. he just stated that he cannot and asks for more patience, just read above an hour or two ago.

[fallen ibex]

I doubt Steven will make a video or final statement. He only has more to lose if he does that. Once a scammer, always a scammer. :/

[static spindle]

Whens patch?

[whole glacier]

live stream in 4 days 😂

[remote oxide]

[civic tendon]

[thin fiber]

[slender thistle]

Did people get the big filing updates they hoped they were going to get today to ease their troubled minds?

[frosty dirge]

nope

[maiden timber]

[odd wing]

Steven basically just stole all his ideas from ArcheAge lol

[hexed ingot]

wow steals ideas from other mmos too

[kind prism]

Which is why most people followed it in the first place, at least I did. ArcheAge but not P2W

[acoustic harness]

I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE! The return of the Jedi, I'll be there waiting for his return!

[final raptor]

I wonder how long this could go on for. Weeks? Months? Years?

[hard lagoon]

Legit shocked that everything is left in limbo right now. Servers just idling surprised they haven't crashed yet and not a word from anyone at Intrepid about anything. Not even people no longer working there

[whole glacier]

they ruined games rep to save on sever costs

[fervent raft]

If no one is working there, what do you expect the people no longer working there to tell you about the servers?

[lost jewel]

How to login to their boxes and restart them would be nice 😂
(Just kidding) 🙂

[outer estuary]

[maiden timber]

[plain sluice]

RIP Ashes. Im gonna pour 1 out for my dead homies

[odd wing]

I mean ideas and the entire game are a big difference

[hexed ingot]

not really; most of wow systems are just a frankenstein monster of other mmo systems

[fluid dirge]

What do you mean not a word from Intrepid? Well no fucking shit. Intrepid is no more. Zero. Gone.

[sharp ledge]

seriously people, go watch Mythic Quest and enjoy the schadenfreud

[wet loom]

[plain sluice]

Karen? Is she going to speak to the manager?

[heavy anchor]

she is the manager. it is karens final evolution. she fought her way up the manager chain and became one

[midnight glade]

when should we be getting our beetle mount?

[ornate locust]

so now as karens leading, everyone will log flag right?

[leaden heath]

That's not true, there's frank

[kindred sequoia]

If anyone ever does ressurect this game even as a p2w sham, they must create a world boss called "MLM Karen"

[loud basin]

yall still be talking in here? lol

[random tartan]

We’re hoping someone picks up the AOC IP. There’s so much potential and with some work, it could be great

[dim scarab]

no chance. THe name/game's reputation too damaged and its too big of a risk.

[opal tundra]

gamigo would probably take it, they have a rep for where games go to die

[heavy anchor]

normally they are the ones that kill it, i dont know if they would take something thats already dead

[native sleet]

What is dead may never die

[digital ocean]

Game was made in unreal, the most well documented and supported game engine to ever exist. I'm sure someones already working on a private server.

[dim scarab]

just being realistic, is there a chance? Yes, but 1% and then a chance of it surviving past that point is like 0.5%. As a result , I choose to move on and wait for what's next and exciting. Sad ,but gotta stay straight. Thus far my insticts done me right, I called it and thats what we got for the end result.

[cosmic sky]

would love some one ot res this game even with p2w shop, i dont care

[simple oxide]

aren't they just a publisher though or do they actually have a dev team? Kakao Games might pick it up though - could see them or Pearl Abyss being in the market for an MMO like AoC that is mostly complete and has a large fan base baked in but hasn't actually launched yet. Especially since both Archeage 2 and Crimson Desert arent MMOs.

[loud basin]

i feel you no worries, I GET IT. I hope someone buys it. I will use the pay shop to support i idc

[candid pewter]

Monumental bought Crowfall after it ran out of money. Maybe they'll buy AoC.

[austere oak]

[lusty estuary]

Yall still holding onto hope that maybe maybe Steven will return? And AOC will be saved? Lol I think that’s why yall are still on here discussing

[austere oak]

[unborn socket]

[wraith geyser]

🫃

[jolly oak]

im hoping some experienced company buys and finishes it.. but it doubt there is much to buy here a real AAA studio couldnt build in a better quality themself

[silent oak]

who is going to do the stream? no devs?

[simple oxide]

I'm hoping the guy retains the IP behind AoC - there is a path for it but a narrow one for sure. Still what made all of us fall in love with the game was his vision so I really do hope he retains the rights and learns from this failure.

[maiden timber]

[austere oak]

[noble marlin]

[wary harness]

wowza

[elfin canopy]

[fervent scroll]

[austere oak]

[dim scarab]

I am reading this shit, its good to be hopefull ,but you all need to stop dreaming. Your faith will be the same as the bootlickers in the beginning of EA Alpha. Nobody is buying this shit ,because they sure turned the name into shit the way they abandoned it , intentionally or unintentionally, nobody will buy a title and name that lost all reputation. At best what we will get is another game down the road that borrows from Ashes ideas yet entirely different game and name. Its dead and its not marketable, its done. We need to move on.

[vernal anvil]

even if the IP name wasn't tarnished as it is now no one would bother with it. Optimisation was bad, assets were either ugly, generic or both, systems were broken it's literally not marketable

[noble marlin]

yeah, i agree.
it's sad for sure, i'm bummed out like others. i paid 500 bucks years ago and even though i wasn't actively playing it anymore, i still wanted it to succeeed.
but you gotta be realistic. it's over

[dim scarab]

thats subjective. many love the way it looked and have rigs to run it just fine , broken systems can be developed and fixed. This is business , if you acquire IP, you gotta be able to market and capitalize on it, its not marketable for abvious reasons.

[autumn shadow]

bro just one more legolas quote is all we need

[sonic onyx]

Dead game

[simple oxide]

I can't really agree that the name is tarnished - people equate the owner with the issues but people did love the game and its design. There are also still quite a few of us who are holding hope that it gets finished. Yes systems are buggy and optimization wasn't in a great state yet but you're talking about a game that was 80% of the way to being a viable product. A company like Kakao that is known for taking distressed IP and bringing them to market or Pearl Abyss that has done the same would be pretty ideal fits for a product like this one.

[vernal anvil]

we both know sindbad its not going to be salvaged

[dim scarab]

"A red sun rises. Blood has been spilled this night"

[slender thistle]

Guys somebody from IS messaged me that my ticket is important to them, and they'll get to it as soon as they can! Hope is saved

[iron pollen]

I came here shortly after the launch on Steam and talked about how bungled it was and all the fan bois lost the everloving shit. Same song, different people.

[simple oxide]

"The night is always darkest just before the dawn. And I promise you, the dawn is coming."

@vernal anvil We don't know that for sure - the main thing of value that Intrepid has is the IP. The creditors that have taken over the company would want to sell that IP to recoup their investments and a company like Kakao would want to pick it up as they don't currently have anything like it in their portfolio and could probably get it for cheap all things considered.

[glad dome]

i was taking a break until they finally do the class combos

[noble marlin]

"quite a few of us" most likely actually equates to 50-100 people.
it already was underperforming what they were expecting from Steam sales.
there is no way they dump money into it after all this bad press that is going viral all over the internet so 100 people can play.

[timber pulsar]

While I think there's no way the game could recover, it's probably more than 100, but still not enough to matter

[smoky shuttle]

[acoustic harness]

I mean, in order for ashes to be created, one must first die.

[simple oxide]

🤣 you're greatly under estimating the number of people who want to play AoC still. I personally know several guilds who would jump back in tomorrow if Steven said "jk, we're back bitches" just because the people who are mad are also the loudest doesn't mean its lost a lot of support. We love the game, and hate the situation it found itself in. Also sales were decent for an early access game with no marketing, and in an alpha state.

[noble marlin]

fair enough, there is no way for me to know the numbers. but even if it's 10 times that there isn't enough people.
the only thing i could see them doing is selling the dynamic gridding technology assuming they are actually close to it actually working.

[sonic axle]

There is no dynamic gridding technology

[warm depot]

[vernal anvil]

dynamic gridding was the root of 90% of the problems

[glad dome]

No faith or simping is required to see these facts:

• ashes exists, even if as an idea, that is attractive to many people
• steven's ego is intrinsically attached to being some MMO savior, albeit in tandem with less-than-ideal business history

and thus we can see it cannot truly stay dead for eternity

i predict most these ppl complaining will hop on the next iteration like junkies or obsessed exes

[simple oxide]

I honestly don't disagree with you even on your last point - I've been here for 9 years, testing every single phase and still want the game to launch so we can play it more 😂 I put in 800 hours during my time playing it in just the EA and probably a few thousand hours over time. It's a great concept and was a fun game despite the issues.

[young remnant]

I too do not think that we have seen the last Of Ashes or of Steven.

[warm depot]

614 in game now should I start to put some hours to get my money worth like some people say? I only got it to support it

[winged trench]

It is just the tip of the iceberg, sadly. Anyone who thinks this alpha was 80% to a viable product is deluding themselves. And it’s the same ones who couldn’t read the writing on the walls as the ship was going down. This alpha had glaring issues since phase 1 that were never addressed. There was nothing to do but cut trees and smash rocks, and even new world did that better. Hybrid combat was a joke, action camera felt like a bug not a feature, they couldn’t fix the lighting so you’d get flash banged and sent into the darkest nights. The flagship early access feature didn’t work. Freeholds didn’t work, even in phase 2 when you could buy one you couldn’t do anything with it. It was just a mess, and not even a hot one.
I wanted this game to thrive. I put my time and money in and followed religiously. It wouldn’t have survived if it stayed on UE4, it couldn’t survive on UE5, it was a collective fever dream we all desperately wanted to believe in. But it was never good. You can say you liked it, but the number of active players was not sustainable for an alpha with this scope. And the constant delays and rescoping and descoping were all red flags of mismanagement.
Tl;Dr it was barely functioning as an alpha, it wasn’t making it out of the digital womb

[wise yacht]

anyone know when mid Feb is? want that beetle skin

[covert jolt]

there is no more beetle for you? the team has already left , XD

[dapper elbow]

I bet you also thought playing in the sandbox when you were 6 years old was "pedestrian"

[turbid fjord]

You’re trolling right?

[simple oxide]

Agree to disagree.

Combat was genuinely fun. Yes there were issues with incentives to participate within PVP however for those of us who actively sought it out I really fucking enjoyed my time playing it.

While they fucked Caravans with mule packs - this was an easy enough fix and I wrote up a comprehensive way to do it. You can check my reddit posts if you would like. Same with how to fix the overtuned corruption and encourage mutual pvp.

Crafting, gathering, processing were all fun but the only issues I personally had was the cost to craft and the sheer quantities of materials needed. Again another easy adjustment to get it feeling in a good place.

Freeholds, all 64 classes, changes to corruption and the economy were coming in March based on the leaked CC meeting. Idk what you did in-game but I feel like my time playing Rust helped me here because I'm used to finding my own fun within the sandbox.

[glad dome]

what would have been the issue with UE4?

[winged trench]

The engine was never the issue.
@simple oxide what was the peak players ? About 30k? How many were bots? Not really knowable to us, but something to mull over. Combat in terms of the skills was fun. There just wasn’t really anything to use it for outside of mindless grinding.
Caravans as you noted were decimated by the mule system which fed into the bot problem. Crafting was… in an early alpha state at best. They said they wanted mini games for crafting (not processing iirc) which never had any testing done. The economics of processing was go into debt(maybe inspired by the development process). Animal husbandry, the system touted as the most in-depth system(for crafting) with Dr. Bucky leading the helm, was never realized. I could go on but really it just makes it even more sad. The IDEA of the game was great. The version we got to test was not. It was a slog of a test. And that’s measurable by the decreasing population even before the sordid news. I’m not saying anyone who liked it was wrong to do so, but it just wasn’t what was described in any form. Maybe they were cooking in the back and ready to serve, but my guess is it was going to be the same porridge we had before

[kind prism]

They would have reset the game after A1 anyway. Might as well reset it on UE5 instead of UE4. People who think the game would have been completed if they had stayed on UE4 are missing chromosomes

[rare garden]

The signs were there from the very start.

[simple oxide]

The studio did tell us that they had to redo quite a bit of work when they changed to UE5 including make the map, assets, tools, etc. It did delay the game. Just factually. But, it may also save it as it does make it more attractive to other studios for picking up a modern MMO.

[broken bronze]

How do you think a new studio would overcome the pressure of picking up Ashes?

[glad dome]

well thanks for the poetry rant then if you dont want to elaborate on your statements

@kind prism define "completed". this doesnt exist in software. as Sinbad said it factually would have been further along if they kept to a stable base.

My opinion is that they should not have hired so many people while the underlying engine tech was still in flux. With news about various games, you can look at all the issues with UE5 over the past few years and how it has been updated over time.

[simple oxide]

likely take the base game, make adjustments, add content, and then rebrand it under their name - something like "Ashes: Reborn" and then market that. People are desperate for a good MMO and the vision behind AoC was loved by many as is proof by us sticking around debating the game even after it technically died lol. Or just the people who spent the last 9 years trying and testing it out.

[kind prism]

My definition of "completed" is a fully content/system/feature complete 1.0 launch

It's pointless to even hope for a new company to pick up Ashes xdd A new company that could complete Ashes would be a large corporate entity. It wouldn't make Ashes the way it was intended. It'd bastardize it into a generic PvE Themepark with instancing everywhere because "that's what WoW does". Then it'd promptly fail and they'd do the shocked pikachu face

[vernal anvil]

and yet there's really no PVP mmos that have succeeded so far in post wow era

[winged trench]

Brother go and read what I wrote again. At a certain point you just have to look at their published roadmap and what we had. Listen to what they said they had been working on and when we would get to try it. At the end of the road, we only got what could arguably be described as ashes lite on a diet missing half its frame. Given another 3-4 years, maybe, given their pacing. I want to believe, but reality has a way of beating sense into us. And clearly I cared because I’m in here still even if I’m on the side of management bad boo management.

I also agree too many cooks in the kitchen, and they should have kept selling cosmetics until fully launched. I would have grabbed some here and there. Whales would have whaled. Would it have been enough? Idk I can’t see their books.

[kind prism]

And can you name a single Western PvP MMO that had a high budget on the same level as the dozens of Western PvE MMOs that have released and died?

Wildstar was a PvE MMO. Died.
SWTOR was a PvE MMO with one of the most popular media names ever behind it. Basically dead.
Swords of Legends Online was a Chinese PvE MMO. Dead
Lost Ark Korean PvE MMO. Dead.
RIFT PvE MMO. Dead.

Can you name a single Western PvP/PvX MMO that released with the same level of budget of those games?

There's this dumb take that "PvP in MMOs doesn't work in the world", yet quite literally we've never gotten a Western attempt at it. Yet we've gotten dozens of PvE attempts that have failed with only a few successes (all with a major brand name behind them)

[glad dome]

obviously it wouldnt have all 64 classes and areas and systems flushed out by now even if they stuck to a stable engine. That seems like a strawman. The instability of the underlying tech stack was simply an ingredient to the bigger picture of the trainwreck

@winged trench i was just curious why you said it couldnt survive on UE4. For example BG3 didnt even use the latest DirectX.

i agree you cant reduce the whole thing down to the engine choice -- they could have hired less ppl while UE5 stablilzed-- but thats not what you said originally.

[simple oxide]

tbf there are even more PVE only MMOs that have died since WoW came out in 2004... being pvp oriented isn't why they failed lol - Archeage for example died because it was insanely p2w and did nothing for the western audience in terms of updates or support but people still love the base mechanics and world it created. (ArcheRage and AA-Classic still going strong)

[willow cairn]

has arguing with anyone in this discord about whether or not you got scammed made you feel any better yet?

[noble marlin]

2 years from now this chat thread will still be active with some people thinking Ashes will return

[neon shell]

2 years of Stargate memes again?

[winged trench]

Oh, yes I meant the engine wasn’t the problem. I think the real issue was, as I believe many in here on all sides have noted, the game was just too ambitious for a team so inexperienced. (I mean the initial team and not denigrating their skills to be perfectly clear, these are not simple games to make) but management needed to be more prudent and get completed systems out and remove anyone who was not performing.

[south cradle]

I mean, Warhammer tanked pretty fast

[simple oxide]

I can agree with that statement. Hindsight is 20/20 of course but a segmented launch where they complete 1-2 base systems and then 6 months later do another 1-2 until the game is finished. Sell cosmetics and maybe convenience items and do funding rounds between updates. Steven definitely needed another Lead Game Designer though, maybe a project manager to help keep deliverables on track and within budget.

[glad dome]

you really think people will stop trying to make an archeage/aoc style game forever 😂

whether its steven (i dont see him relinquishing his MMO-savior complex), or someone else -- ill see you on the next iteration, because the fact you are here shows you also want it, and are part of the existing market that will propel said iteration

[digital cliff]

Sooo, no news yet I guess?

[winged trench]

Shiiiii, don’t make me fist bump you. That really would have been a good way to get people back in too, just twice a year massive patches with new complete systems and sick ass cosmetics to test with that system. I need to hold back the cope now

[acoustic harness]

Riot cof cof , Ashes of Runeterra

[atomic shale]

Hey, any news from the suit situation. Something was planned to be showed on monday no?

[simple oxide]

haha 👊🏻 - hey its okay to agree on somethings at least. btw been contemplating a way to make an open source council based MMO development using block chain for voting rights on the direction and funding. 😂 use the block chain for raising funds and token holders would have a percentage based vote based on how many tokens they currently hold. You could earn more tokens based on work shown with github commits based on a value ranking system that measures their impact on the overall project.

[kind prism]

Well the exact verbiage was "within the next 2 working days" on Friday night/saturday morning so should be tomorrow unless something changes. Posted the screenshot in #1468844351097405521

[wraith geyser]

I think my top of feet pain is from the hair

[timber pulsar]

I really liked bard. I will miss bard more than anything else

[kind prism]

Yeah the Bard was a great implementation. Hopefully Bucky lands somewhere great

[winged trench]

I feel like in a perfect world this would work well. But something tells me death by committee would be the result. And that something is my complete and total lack of experience working on anything near the scale of an MMO. Also i think a council of dogs might be more successful but that’s because you give them food and they act like you brought them the world. And I’m way off topic now and wanting a corgi.

[simple oxide]

hahaha yeah you're not wrong - was just mulling the idea over because of how many crowd funded MMOs have just straight died over the years 😂

[pine vale]

Ashes of creation is the GOAT, cant WAIT for the livestream

[echo bronze]

[austere oak]

[thin fiber]

[noble marlin]

[austere flower]

Its bee a while since I looked in here or herd anything. I assume there are still bits of AOC raining down from orbit and the legal Shitzen is still ongoing ??

[simple oxide]

We haven't heard anything new on the legal front just yet but rough consensus is likely going to be seeing the first legal filings this week sometime. (if they were filed today and take a bit to be processed and uploaded to the court website)

[buoyant rain]

[glad dome]

[rare garden]

The stream on friday gonna be wild

[hidden axle]

[low jolt]

my account, that is supposed to be lifetime subscription, is now saying on the AoC webstie as a 1 yr sub. all the kickstarter stuff is gone from my account, and a bunch of bs stuff is there now. So someone is doing something with everyones accounts still. classic bait and switch at this point.

[simple oxide]

but your discord doesn't show the BoW or higher backer pack... You have the Intrepid Pack tag which tells me you backed after Kickstarter and Summer Backer..

[low jolt]

nope all gone and removed I have a screenie of my proof of purchase and the kickstarter packs. all have been removed from my account stillshows my proof of purchase in july 2018 though for $500

[simple oxide]

but the KS ended in July of 2017...

[hoary cove]

@steven? he left? noooo 😞 i was gonna tell him that i just saw theory forges video and i know he will save the game and get it to us by 2027😞😞 so close we were SOO CLOSE

[glad dome]

he is in the server

[viral citrus]

So game dead dead or there is a chance?

[hoary cove]

@vague leaf Please good sir save the MMO genre…:( i have not been able to play a single one they all suck and 20 years old… we need you lord steven.. Take their ass to court get your game back and become the lord steven we know…

[simple oxide]

there is a chance, small but it is there - really depends on how bad the situation was behind the scenes before it all fell apart.

[austere oak]

[acoustic harness]

[viral citrus]

I'll take it. As long as there is a chance.

[marsh quarry]

Crazy were in a world where high guard and now concord lasted longer then ashes

both at least released

[austere oak]

[viral citrus]

Sad times. 🙁

[honest sleet]

Ugh

My Kickstarter stuff is not on the website either

[idle notch]

Sounds like you honestly RMTd a account which they could see and have taken the stuff away maybe? sounds silly but its happened

[frigid fable]

Just checked mine and well... i suppose it's a few lifetimes.... shows as 833 years and 3 months haha

[latent salmon]

mine still looks the same

[spice stump]

[tidal vector]

Release the code!
I'm sure there's a modder out there who can finish the game by 2027

[lament island]

No. GG wp, kthxbaicyul8erm8

[vague kite]

Private Equity doing something out of kindness? Lol

[solemn moss]

Hop on ashes of creation (nsfw gif)

[carmine bramble]

anyone 70 on tbc yet?

[rare garden]

Silvermoon looks insane

[tidal vector]

I guess you haven't seen Star Wars: Genesis mod for Starfield
While it may be hard to believe in today's day and age, but passionate people still exist

[hasty tide]

See you on marianople @vague leaf

[south cradle]

None of the other MMO’s out look good. Archeage Classic is alright, but I’ve already played AA a bunch and don’t really feel like playing it again.

[hoary cove]

Guys people said wait till monday for some news but i haven’t seen anything.. did it get delayed?

[vague kite]

I mean Bethesda allowing single player mods are one thing, but expecting a private Equity firm to release the source code of an MMO? It's just fundamentally different imo. It's like comparing apples to oranges

[little rivet]

[austere oak]

[cerulean sequoia]

did the severs go down let romor has it 13th they gop down

[barren gyro]

Almost 😂

[pine hare]

No clue

[lucid flame]

Any new info from Steven?

[rare garden]

Resident evil requiem on the 27th

[hasty tide]

Wont force you to play AA, But AA classic is Way chiller version than other AA, Dev ban RMT + play who play with alts thats like the best we can ask for.

[delicate ivy]

servers are still online. game looks so beautiful. what a petty...

[wind pendant]

quinfall already better then AA.

[south cradle]

Quinfall class system looks bad

[dapper sonnet]

Yeah Steven says hi

[lucid flame]

Sweet

[long patrol]

yoooooooooooooooo whats new?

[hasty tide]

You guys can find Steven in AAC , He is at Swirling cleaning the chairs

[exotic sequoia]

Hey, been away for a while, can someone explain me what is the situation of the game. Heard it is shutting down?

[ornate hatch]

Yeah he’s playing ArcheAge again

[iron tiger]

HE is about to brainstorm for a new game 😄

[coarse summit]

Thats because yall care most about graphics while this genre never was much of that 🤣 thrres plenty hiden gems out there

[quaint ledge]

Still no word from Steven yet?

[delicate osprey]

Nothing official no, sadly

[spice stump]

[shut ermine]

[autumn arrow]

[south cradle]

Wasn’t referencing graphics.

[solid dust]

There is a chance for AoC guys ! Pray for it to survive

[hoary cove]

Is that the word on the street?

[maiden timber]

[autumn arrow]

[digital cliff]

[vital fog]

[buoyant rain]

[halcyon sleet]

[maiden timber]

[hoary cove]

[remote oxide]

[nimble cradle]

[lament beacon]

[vale lagoon]

[plain adder]

[stray dragon]

[terse kindle]

2 lawsuit against intrepid that crazy,but we will see!

[south cradle]

🐸

[autumn arrow]

[young brook]

[maiden timber]

[stray dragon]

[harsh carbon]

Steam just gave me a Full Refund after submitting 10 tickets over and over, I guess someday I could just buy it again lol…

[tawny harness]

bro wtf are you talking about xD

[vale lagoon]

there is a chance, but the chance is abysmal low.

[torn tapir]

I heard it too

[halcyon relic]

Lmao! HOW ARE THE SERVRS STILL UP?

[inner snow]

Cause there’s no one to shut them off

[zenith tartan]

[vital fog]

[maiden timber]

[rotund dirge]

[steep grove]

[grave stone]

[torn tapir]

I have friend and he has another friend that has wife and her colleague in work and when he was behind gas station there was one weird guy with needle in arm telling about ashes is maybe saved

[nocturne swift]

Bro it was steven...

[autumn arrow]

[maiden timber]

[spice stump]

[obtuse sky]

🌮

[fading meadow]

[buoyant rain]

[maiden timber]

[proven smelt]

[mental ridge]

[solar jay]

[blissful hedge]

Y'all should keep your copium to the lowest level not to be disappointed once more 😉 Meanwhile go play something brainless and fun like Duke nukem total meltdown or land of the babes :3

[stray ibex]

Quinfall is actually pretty good once you get past 20 and get to group play. The combat is janky until then but in group format it flows

[remote oxide]

[torn tapir]

I play albion online, i want to be richest person out there

[gritty kite]

lol 61 days since steam launch and servers still up 🤣

[empty pumice]

[severe berry]

[torn tapir]

On 1. April steeven will tweet: it was just a joke guys, game continue

[wispy lantern]

[wary harness]

[native sleet]

[hoary snow]

[last merlin]

[empty pumice]

[fossil lily]

🤡

[merry ridge]

[zenith tartan]

[sacred panther]

store refreshes tomorrow

[shadow fossil]

cant wait to buy more cosmetics!

[bright goblet]

xDDDDD

[grim egret]

[trim drum]

[fossil lily]

[buoyant rain]

[glad dome]

[surreal anchor]

[queen eagle]

when can I get my free mount?

[winged token]

I feel like this discord was invaded by the wallstreetbets Reddit

[fading meadow]

[south cradle]

🚀

[main crescent]

We have been witness to the ashes of the creation of ashes of creation.

[glossy niche]

[austere nacelle]

[buoyant rain]

[hidden axle]

[north thunder]

I think we should all just blame our favorite 7-year blizzard dev and forget about it

[solid flame]

LFG OAK cleric 10 lvl full adept!

[empty pumice]

i love these idiots keep exposing themselves, makes it easy to block the trolls.

[south cradle]

where is Iron at? I never see it

[lunar walrus]

[rose plover]

[true swift]

[errant garnet]

Lvl 25 rogue LFG Carph

[plain sluice]

🤡 🤡

[abstract fox]

Is there still a livestream this friday?

[last merlin]

🍌

[topaz gull]

can't wait for monday's news!

[buoyant rain]

[plain sluice]

What do you think lol

[terse finch]

[final raptor]

I bet there is a livestream

[young brook]

[south cradle]

🥔

[smoky shuttle]

[maiden timber]

[slim terrace]

[gritty wolf]

WTB ferret paying 1k gold

[loud gyro]

There will be a stream but it will just be a pc on fire in the middle of the office slowly melting

[empty birch]

Karen is gonna livestream

[plain sluice]

🤡 👍

[south cradle]

Honestly kinda surprised people freak tf out so fast lol.

@plain sluice you know when you use the clown emoji it just makes you look super gay lol

[patent jolt]

1200 gold and you got a deal. I will even thrown in a crying pirate to sweeten the deal

[quiet panther]

[autumn arrow]

[fleet knot]

Ashes Phoenix died, then upon rebirth 🐦‍🔥 at its weakest state, was drowned

Google: "In most mythology, a phoenix cannot die permanently, as its nature is to combust into flames and rise from the ashes in a, cycle of rebirth. Permanent death for a phoenix typically requires methods that prevent this, such as scattering its ashes, destroying the ashes completely so no residue remains, or killing the newborn chick immediately after it emerges."

[final raptor]

Freaked out so fast? Thats pretty gaslighty. Company up and bailed in the course of a Saturday and basically shut the game down. It's so hard to tell if people are trolling or not these days.

[south cradle]

No, it's just seeing things through a normal lens

[plain sluice]

💩 💩

[final raptor]

Ashes did always attract a certain "enlightened" crowd. Ashes poop sandwich...niiicceee.

[fleet knot]

Y'all think Steven is actually trying to fight to gain control again or do y'all think he's only fighting to avoid bankruptcy to save face???

[plain sluice]

100% the latter. Hes most likely busting his ass off to lose the least amount of money and wash his hands of this project

[south cradle]

Avoid bankruptcy? None of his personal assets have the slightest possibility of being in danger.

[balmy crown]

Man. What happened. Took last year September off and came back. What is the state of this game?

[slate egret]

I dont think that's an either or situation. Self-preservation almost always comes first for everybody. However, you don't work on something for 10 years without having some attachment to it. If it can be saved one way or another, he'll more than likely try.

[spice stump]

[glossy niche]

[wraith wyvern]

[balmy crown]

so, whats the meaning for posting the AoC emoji? Like a remembrance of out respect or something?

[patent jolt]

[autumn arrow]

[south cradle]

I think it's more of a general "i believe"

[fleet knot]

What about this,

Obviously we know he sold the company, given the "board", but through skill issue he sold too much, thus causing him to lose control,

One avenue he was in need of funds, another avenue, he was purposely selling off Intrepid to leave because it got in over his head, for high demand that game needed

Maybe he wanted both, but dent get his way

[south cradle]

He took out loans and had to default on the loans, which granted control, because Steam didn't pay them at the end of January like they were supposed to.

[balmy crown]

Margaret quit!?? 😱 Bro... Sad day.... Sad day

[vale lagoon]

she was fired, like the rest of the studio

[severe berry]

:flamingphoenix:

[slate egret]

I don't think Steven understands what "being in over his head" even means. I think he's a huge risk taker and his last gamble was saying he'd quit if he didnt get his way. Karen called his bluff.

He had plenty of opportunities to scale down and release AoC on EA. He didnt have to scrap the UE4 work, but he did. He didn't need to make a BR game to test combat ideas, yet he did (and didnt even utilize it later lol). The part that's a bit weird is why didnt he at least outsource most of the artists? Was it some workplace friendship over business decision? Because most companies would have done what Karen wanted to.

I think he flew as close to the sun as he could until he (and all of us) finally got burned. There are other gaming company stories where similar happened and it paid off in the end. AoC is appearing like it wont be one of them (unless a real miracle happens)

[balmy crown]

damn man. This shit really saddens me. I used to brag to my friends about how awesome this game would be. Was gonna be my forever game too once it "fully" releases. Imma just leave the server.

[tacit juniper]

This, for real.

[terse finch]

[vale lagoon]

It might also have been an ego thing. Like they wanted stuff to happen that he said wouldn't happen. P2W, skins from the monthly packets back in shop or I don't know what. And instead of saying okay, it was more important to him to save his face in that matter, or to keep his principles of no p2w or whatever. Just a thought, might also be something else entirely 😄

[south cradle]

They did outsource art.

[merry ridge]

Most people I know would be willing to pay a monthly sub even now, just to have the game back and keep it in active development. Maybe it would be a good idea to introduce a mandatory subscription from the start of Early Access if they knew about their financial problems and this was the way to save the game

[steep grove]

no news yet?

[swift sinew]

no news yet

[grave stone]

🤡

[orchid quail]

Anyone else just leave the discord up just waiting for the servers to go down randomly and watch it unfold real time? I also got the community page on steam up tracking the player count lol

[snow cedar]

sorry lost track for a bit ... is steam the ones rolling in cash because they witheld the money from intrepid and now not giving refound?

[south cradle]

Basically. 7-11 million dollars worth.

[acoustic harness]

[hallow hearth]

Longest I've ever seen a company address issues, regardless of how small or big.
I'm surprised there are any supporters for this game left.

[livid sail]

True, there is so much that could be handled differently. There is more meat to the current iteration than games like SWG had at launch. (It launched with no mounts at first, we walked every damn where) I think leaning into the Commission Boards with more dynamic and variety of missions is better in a Sandbox than building out tons of quests that most of the playerbase will ignore. Add some extra XP incentive there and it would make for a really good sandbox centric leveling system.

Call it launched, get the sub fee and keep it running as you build additional features post launch. That's how most old school sandbox games worked.

Most importantly, an MMO is NEVER complete. Even after it launches, it keeps growing with new features.

[autumn arrow]

[fresh onyx]

After leaving it this long the community that was built has now withered away as the reputation has now gone deeper into the darkness of despair

[grave stone]

[echo bronze]

[viral sandal]

The players are still here to finally get some clarity whats going on, but it seems we wont get any 🫤

[plain sluice]

🍆💦

[grave stone]

🤡 creepy lurking clown Krewshi 🤡

[zenith tartan]

[maiden tusk]

haha

[last merlin]

🧙‍♂️

[fading meadow]

[fervent bronze]

Its really sad that there is more information already available but AoC , intrepid or steven have yet to make an official statement here. There is a lot of information available already beyond whats shared in the channels , if you are a california resident in the san diego space you can get a lot of details. But they havent posted shit here yet.

[coarse hull]

And they probably won't

[arctic helm]

Sucks to come to the realization that you were never of any real importance to this company in any regard doesn't it?

[echo bronze]

🍆

[maiden timber]

[snow cedar]

thank you for your answer

[grave stone]

[plain sluice]

🍆💦

[buoyant rain]

[fading meadow]

🌊The Turquoise Tide🌊 is a tribe of the Niküan.
🌴Become part of the family and make the Turquoise Sea your home🌋 🔇 No Discord, stop gaming - start roleplaying!

[velvet cairn]

🤡

[spice stump]

[glossy niche]

[pine forge]

[winter mountain]

All these 🤡 emoji's not directed at me.

[fading meadow]

🫂

[grave stone]

🤡

[raven thicket]

I'm sure this has been asked repeatedly, but is there enough of a 'game' that could potentially be used for a private server? Given how much was put into this, surely there are those who would be willing to finish it?

[velvet cairn]

creation of ashes, look it up

[mighty tinsel]

There’s plenty of game and more that was being worked on. Building a server though is a MAJOR task that’s going to take years+ to re engineer and get done properly since they have to place every single thing in the world. The only real hope for good private servers is a source code leak

[winter mountain]

To answer you honestly, probably. The game will need to be scaled down to make it runnable on reasonable hardware, but for an initial server, there is enough.

it is also possible to open source parts of the game in order to rapidly fix bugs and exploits to reach a stable state.

---

in the same vein though, it would be easier to just start an open source mmo.

[echo bronze]

🍆 💦

[empty pumice]

[fading meadow]

for me it would be enough if you add and fix some things. Fix and reenable Sieges for Citizen Ressource and Vassals, to rank up and/ or let Cities run dry. Fix Mule and corruption exploits (easy solutions), fix all other eco damaging exploits, maybe hire GM's ingame and out of the game, combine with autoreports, but prevent abusing by having GM's controlling to get rid of Bots and RMT the best as you can. Reduce the gear gap for PVP and make PVP only base stats related. We then have a good sandbox base game we can develop and continue on.

[fossil lily]

hello guys why are the servers empty ?
I was away for holiday and now i don't see anyone

[neon copper]

a leak would be hilarious

[raven thicket]

Thank you all for the thought out answers, I do appreciate it. In terms of source code leaks, we have seen that for a number of other classics that were shut down, for example Tera. Don't get me wrong, private servers are notoriously temperamental, but I suppose it would be better than nothing.

[mighty tinsel]

The bigger issue with this game is how many hands seem to be in the cookie jar and how litigious they seem to be. And also how quickly all of the devs were fired. There may only be full source code at the shut down office.

There’s been a guy offering relatively big money for an anonymous source code leak and AFAIK he hasn’t been taken up on it yet.

[civic panther]

Not sure if youve read yet, but the game development has stopped/ been terminated. A lot of players have now quit.

[late yoke]

Ask for a refund cause you just blew money on a dead project

[spring dome]

a LOT has happened while you were away lol

[strange grove]

True, ill wait for as long as needed for some more info though 🙂

[terse halo]

I think the source code will be released after all is said and done

[winter mountain]

At the end of the day, we need the source code. Without it there is no chance for a private server.

Once we get source code, we need to figure out what hardware is required to run the server in the first place.

We then need a way to either generate enough income to pay for that hardware, OR we need to downsize the world size.

From there we need to bug/exploit fix to get to stable state.

---

this is insurmountable in a short time, and even with time it will take a lot of volunteers to iterate through all the many issues that WILL crop up.

[neon copper]

I wonder if my bank will chargeback my purchase from years ago if i show them proof this game didn't deliver. Looking forward to the lawsuits lol

[lunar walrus]

[raven thicket]

Those are fair points

[mighty tinsel]

Hardware is easy. It was all virtualized servers. Income is also easy if there aren’t that many people. Just do the same thing and sell cosmetics like all private servers. Just gotta figure out an entitlement system for it.

The biggest issue is source code and databases for spawners/loot/etc. It’s largely UE5 so patches are an easy thing for a community to make and put together to fix and finish parts of the game.

[raven thicket]

I tried that recently with my bank (in the UK). VISA will only go back so far, less than two years, so Kickstarter backers like myself are SOOL.

[neon copper]

AUS consumer laws are pretty OP which is why i'm actually a little hopeful

[agile crystal]

No new news... ahahahahahahahahahaha

[normal imp]

Plus if you do a chargeback through your bank on steam they just lock your account, and steam's being very odd about these refunds, compared to say the HD2 incident with Sony.

[eager berry]

Are the servers still up chat?

[raven thicket]

I was speaking specifically of Kickstarter backers, though. Yeah, I would strongly advise people to NEVER do a chargeback through Steam

[terse kindle]

news who gonna give us news xD?! Steven leave the discord if i see

[mighty tinsel]

Because it was abundantly clear to them that HD2 was actively blocking usage. There’s still been no official statement to anyone, so steams being cautious about outright killing it besides taking it off of sale

[normal imp]

Which is totally fair, but with all the news thats come out about the companies financial woes, and with the whole dev team essentially abandoning ship, i find it very unlikely that the devcast on the 13th they said they were going to do, is going to hold any positive news. I really hope im wrong, but i see where you're coming from on that. I cant remember where i read it, but i saw somewhere they were looking to hire overseas devs or something?

[grave stone]

🤡 😂

[hallow lichen]

Make sure yall pay your taxes they due in 4 hours. lol

[winter mountain]

-checks date- nah I am good for a few more weeks.

[fading vale]

@vague leaf Any uptedate?

[mighty tinsel]

That’s all rumors. The only confirmed facts we have are that the studio shut down and 210 people were laid off. Everything else is rumor statements and “leaks” and Steven/margaret statements. We have no clue if there was an actual board that wanted to ship dev overseas. We have no clue if Steven actually resigned or if the money just ran out. We have no clue regardless

[empty pumice]

[normal imp]

I thought so, but lets see what we get in 3 days time

[gleaming bluff]

Surely they used version control. I very much doubt the source code is just at the office.

[winter mountain]

Honestly, I will be surprised if the livestream happens. I'll pay for the whole live stream staffs coffee if it happens.

@atomic kettle true, but the person I was replying to wanted an honest answer on if it was possible.

[hallow lichen]

Yes the servers have never went down.

[atomic kettle]

the game isnt good enough or complete enough to warrant a private server.

[raven thicket]

@vague leaf @winter mountain
As Cas has pointed out, there may be yet one way that the game can reach the playerbase. It is not going to please everyone, and certainly from your perspective, may seem to be an insult. However, many put their faith, for many years into this project, and that there would be something at the end of it, even if it were below the (enormously high) expectations set of it. Steven, I realise there must be a lot going on behind the scenes from a legal perspective, and that in of itself may drag on for years. But I would implore, for the love of the game itself and all the blood, sweat and tears put into it by a highly dedicated and talented development team, that the Source Code please be made available. I have no doubt there will be willing and able volunteers who would see that something resembling AoC would be finished sufficiently for a private server.

[spare raven]

The world was 90% empty though. Underlying server code would need to be painstakingly reverse engineered and written (unless leaked) - but it's not like there's some carefully built populated world that would have to be replicated. The 10% that was populated was also almost entirely just someone painting a mob brush over swathes of empty space to fake it

[plucky frigate]

Basically. Oh, here's a poi? Copy pasta mobs around here and add some random pathing. There didn't really seem to be any lore or flavor reason as to why certain mobs where in certain locations, and there was DEFINITELY no rhyme or reason as to why they had the levels they did.

Also if we do ever get to a server implementation, please delete the fucking birds ~ Thanks

[copper notch]

Still no updates on public filings / lawsuits or whatever from @vague leaf ?

[winter mountain]

Interestingly enough, this is the most accurate take.

a team on 10 can probably recreate the entire world in a year. The net code is the hard part.

[hollow arch]

part of me wants to try to build an MMO, but then I realized that cost money and I don't have a lot of that
Then there a part of me that just want to build a small game, and then I realized I can't do graphs arts to build the models

[blissful hedge]

I doubt there is a possibility right now to do private server because there do use server-meshing tech, meaning you would need bigger and multiple vm to run it into just one server.

that would be expensive

[spice cedar]

Yea, good luck recreating the entire micro-services backend by snooping UDP and TCP packets from the game client. People drastically underestimate the scale of work required to rebuild the server infrastructure (FREAKING DYNAMIC GRIDDING ANYONE?!) and the chances of the IP ever being released to the community is non existent. It took about 10 years for WoW private servers to get to a mature place and that was a significantly simpler backend.

[fading vale]

Has anyone else noticed, that AAC and AOC have a LOT of similarities? Like they're nearly the same game in several aspects.... The phoenix used is in both games, and several other things are identical.

[arctic helm]

So basically the dude that slapped together Dreadmyst in a year is a total chad.

[winter mountain]

As I stated earlier, it would be easier to just build an open source mmo. For about a grand one can buy a ddr3 server to start development on. Using older hardware forces optimization, as opposed to relying on modern hardware to power through.

@dapper sonnet It would take a whole second server just doing logic level error checking to even start combatting those issues.

[dapper sonnet]

Not to mention the inability to stop hacking and botting

[maiden timber]

[hot magnet]

https://klipy.com/gifs/i-miss-you-missing-you-32

[spice cedar]

It would be easier than trying to reverse engineer the backend services for AoC, sure. There's a reason we've never had a successful open-source MMO though. It's not generally the type of project that competent software developers want to contribute to and herding the metaphorical cats for the 5/6 years it would take is also next to impossible.

We cooked boys. Open-source isn't going to rescue us from this problem. The only way out is if Steven, by some miracle, can get the IP back and resurrect the project, or if the private equity company front the money to finish the game at another studio.

[hearty patrol]

[quick igloo]

@vague leaf Steven, give us our money back. It won't be hard for you to earn it for obvious reasons, but there are working-class people like me with children who really feel the pinch when we lose our money, especially in Europe/Spain, which is a shitty country where they charge us for practically everything, even breathing, and they keep robbing us. Now they're taking our money, money meant for a dream, our little refuge to forget for a moment all the social problems we live in. Best wishes, and I hope God protects you and your family for many years and that you don't have to suffer, or if you're dependent on them.

[grave stone]

[queen topaz]

🤡 🤡

[winter mountain]

This is going to sound harsh, but that is not Stevens problem. A bad financial decision on your part falls solely on you. That "pinch" you feel when you lose your money to a game going under has nothing to do with Ashes.

if the money you spent on AoC put you into a bind, you should never have bought into this dream. Even in the case of Star Citizen on my part with $1500 spent just in ships, I can live with that loss should CIG go belly up, but I will always warn people before buying in as it is a risk.

[gusty wasp]

@spice cedar I'm pretty sure WaR is open sorce since it's shutdown. Return to Reckoning has done a wonderful job.

[arctic helm]

Its also taken them years to get it to the state its in now.

[empty pumice]

[swift sinew]

[chrome kernel]

https://giphy.com/gifs/spongebob-squarepants-alone-lonely-ISOckXUybVfQ4

[glad moth]

I believe we're just in the storm before the calm. Keep your head up everyone!

[gusty wasp]

@arctic helm judging by the state of AoC early release after 10 years of a full team and funding. I'd say it taking years is nothing out of the ordinary .

[empty pumice]

plays the smallest violin Because i am a working class person ( like most people here) with children( again like most people here ) who really feel the pinch when we lose our money( because of bad decisions I made ), ... ... 🙄 boe fucking hoe man. Make better life decisions.

The fact you feel the pinch has nothing to do with ashes of creation but with you throwing apparently very needed money away on shit like video games.... maybe video games shouldnt be your highest priority to spend money on, if you are that tight on money.

Might as well buy iphone and ipad crap and then bitch you dont have any money...

[winter mountain]

I do not understand how Ashes was so underdeveloped with 200+ staff. Like god damn, it must have been 50/50 management and developers.

[arctic helm]

Team was a gradual build up, funding obviously questionable. Ashes devs speed was also slower than a snail's pacing. Whether that's the fault of their team structure or if Steven only hired a bunch of sandbags, who knows.

[loud gyro]

Just because they may have had their priorities wrong when purchasing access to this doesn't mean that they deserve to lose the money when they product they bought doesn't get delivered.

[azure hull]

Having 250 devs doesn't mean anything if there is someone who's not skilled enough leading them

[pastel solstice]

let’s make the game ourselves

[dense moon]

They should sell the IPO to a more competent developer.

[quick igloo]

There's no comparison between StarCitizen and this game; they're completely unrelated. StarCitizen is totally transparent about their revenue and it's public; they don't hide anything like this guy, who even hid the fact that the game was fully funded by shareholders when he said it would never be released on Steam. But his masterstroke, and not to raise more money, was when he moved the game from the website to Steam just to make it officially released and avoid having to refund a single cent. StarCitizen is still in development, and they bring us new content every two weeks. These people didn't bring us anything new. Sure, the game's performance improved a lot, but aside from adding new races, which is super easy to do, and new classes, they didn't bring any other long-term content. And the issue of massive bots without doing anything in return—because they didn't do anything—also leaves a lot to be desired. So don't buy Ashe of Scam from StarCitizen anymore because it's like night and day.

[winter mountain]

I'm down. No real game dev skills, but I can lean.

[arctic helm]

Oddly enough, the speed at which Intrepid made "progress" frustrated me to the point where I began teaching myself UE5 and Unity nearly a year ago*(A2 Phase 2 annoyed me greatly.)*

[empty pumice]

Sure if you want the money back, try getting the money back. But this sob story just proves to everyone that if you are THAT tight on money, don't spent it on video games.It just shod that maybe you should not be handling any kind of money.

[loud gyro]

You don't need to be a dick to the guy just because you think they're bad with money though.

[hardy charm]

curt today in usa about ashes of creation?

[pastel solstice]

ill take the Creative Director position. I’ve got the vision. I just need your willingness to lean into game dev.

@arctic helm will be our Bucky.

[quick igloo]

If I spent my money, it was because I could, but that doesn't excuse being scammed. If I sell you a light bulb, you get home, plug it in, and it doesn't work, you're going to complain, right? Well, it's the same thing. If I bought a supposedly "functional" product, I should at least have the right to complain. And I repeat: 1- I spent it because I could. 2- If I have children, don't I have the right to have a hobby? 3- May God forgive you for your words, as they make no sense. And I say it loud and clear: Steven will be back, and he'll scam everyone again, because that's how stupid and ignorant human beings are. They're like the fans of a football team or a political party; they'll never care about you, no matter how many times you argue with a fan of the other team or debate about different political ideals. They only care about one thing: taking your money.

[arctic helm]

lol thanks, but no thanks. I enjoy my solo projects more.

[dense moon]

Highly mismanaged, we all wanted this game, I just wish as we got close to the end they would have been more transparent, they really should have said hey we are going to start charging a sub to play the ALPHA, it would have probably flopped but stringing us along was way worse. I would have paid $15 a month to keep playing...I know a lot of people would have been upset with this but I bet you many would have.

[spare raven]

People asking for Steven to resurrect the game don't realize that this game failed because of Steven. If you want a game that remotely resembles this game you do not want Steven to be involved

[regal crater]

Steven are on epstein files? xD

[empty pumice]

Ok, and when will he learn ? When we all nice and cuddly to the guy ? Since when has anyone ever learned anything without hitting hard against a wall. Consequences help us grow. Or maybe we should enable the person and gives his money back. Yea, that is how he will learn not to spent money on stupid shit.
It is now on him to learn from it and stand back up.

[rare garden]

Guys, guys, we can't really compare ashes to star citizen. First of all, star citizen will actually release by 2060.

[white pilot]

Not sure that would work anyway, the IP is owned by Intrepid. Steven does not work for Intrepid. No one on this discord works for Intrepid, this discord is basically a fan site at this point.

[hardy charm]

Whe need find good hacker ho could hack the server, download all server files. And we all together will make our Ashes of Free People (and community will make mods, upgrades etc ) ( same as was with Archeage, and funny thing ArcheRage and Archeage Clasic still works)

[loud gyro]

The fact that you think that you taught the guy anything is hilarious, if anything Steven taught him a lesson, all you did was be a dick after the fact, you haven't helped him in the slightest.

[cyan socket]

and you are an expert of all things Steven? Impressive to study ones life work with such attention to detail. When is your book being released?

[quick igloo]

That's right, and not just to us, but to the hundreds of people who lost their jobs, some even moving from other cities to work on a project they were passionate about, and now they're out on the street without a single penny. Now, all that time and effort they put into something that vanished overnight, without even being given the 60 days' notice before their dismissal or being paid for those 60 days—who's going to compensate them?

[terse finch]

[spare raven]

IP doesn't cover the general concept though. A well-managed studio could easily deliver on a much more conservative (read: realistic) game that still touches on the key concepts that AoC did; PvX, caravan, wars, vassals, etc. They don't need Steven or the IP from Intrepid to do those things. The IP is worthless (less than worthless now) and Steven has proven to be as good a studio director as he was an MMO player (fakes it)

[fickle sail]

🫃

[dense moon]

You are asking the wrong question. Who is to blame?