#2.0 Filter system

125 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

candid ivy
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I'm currently working on polishing up the Filter system that is in the 2.0 version of the game. I'd like to hear suggestions for filters I might have missed or which would be useful.

The way it works is that you can apply multiple filters that will all exclude. Meaning Melee and Summon together will show you only those cards that fulfil both criteria, e.g. Swarmer Totem or Gor’rakk Gate which summons melee units.

The filters in my current version of the design:

🔹 Minion
🔹 Spell
🔹 Building
🔹 Melee
🔹 Ranged
🔹 Attacks Buildings
🔹 Flying
🔹 Tank
Every card where the minion(s) summoned has MaxHealth/card Cost >= 100 and also any minion which reduces damage sufficiently to fulfill this criteria
🔹 Horde
Every card where number of units summoned >= Cost
🔹 Fast
Speed >= 7
🔹 Removal
Any card that is used primarily to remove an enemy minion and is not expected to leave anything behind after
🔹 Summon
Any spell or building which summons minions, and any minion which creates more minions (undying, morgrul. Jes’ra, city watch)
🔹 AoE
🔹 Random
Any card which will change its effect on the match depending on factors outside of the player's control, does not need to be unpredictable
🔹 Healing
Self healing doesn’t count
🔹 Control
Any card which can directly affect how minions behave. I.e. any kind of crowd control effect, taunt, netherstep, marked.
🔹 Buffer
Self buffing doesn’t count

Filters that have been suggested but won’t be possible till some point after 2.0 release: New and Unclaimed Rewards.

Any criticism or suggestions are welcome

quasi fulcrum
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🔹 Tank
Every card where the minion(s) summoned has MaxHealth/card Cost >= 100 and also any minion which reduces damage sufficiently to fulfill this criteria

i hate that brutish betrayer falls under that

tardy moss
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🔹 Melee
🔹 Ranged
What about special and true damage? It would be good if all attack types are available as filter options.
🔹 Attacks Buildings
It's weird to call that filter that. Everything with an attack can attack buildings. Wouldn't "Building hater" or "Siege" or something else be better?
🔹 Healing
Self healing doesn’t count
Why shouldn't self healing count? Are there even any self healing cards left after the Brutus change?

candid ivy
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I suggested Demolisher for Attacks Buildings, but the lead designer wanted something more to the point that doesn't introduce a new keyword

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Special attack type is going to create a pool of cards with very little in common I think, and True damage should be searchable in the search bar to get the same effect. But it might be worth considering

fierce pollen
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Please add a filter for "Hits Flying"

quasi fulcrum
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🔹 Attacks Buildings

change to ONLY attacks buildings (or smth like that)

fierce pollen
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If it's feasible, I would hope for either a way to negate filters (the way I usually see this done is with a tri-state checkbox that cycles between select, select NOT, and unselected) or the ability to switch between AND/OR querying. If I find myself saying "okay, I'm set on hordes for this deck" and want to see everything else, it seems like I have no way of doing that right now.

candid ivy
candid ivy
timid badge
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Would filters for card type be something to add? Like Slitherbound, Scrat, Empyrean, etc, or is that still just doable via the search that exists now?

quasi fulcrum
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that filter was in the beta

candid ivy
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yeah, mana cost, faction and rarity are all also in there

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and glory

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The stuff i'm working on with this is the options available in the type drop down

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In actuality I would like to have the card types: Minion, Spell and Building be toggles in the style of the rarities at the bottom, but that requires UI work that i'm not likely to get approved at this point

quasi fulcrum
karmic pine
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I saw it mentioned elsewhere that you can't select just a single mana cost, for example if you want 5 mana cards you need to do 4-5 or 5-6 since you can't overlap the handles.

placid geyser
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Nuker should be an important one for minions that deal high single instance damage

visual depot
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Please include a button that filters to ONLY cards of a specific cost.

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If I press the 2 Cost button, show me all two costs. If I press the 4 Cost button after, show me all 2 and 4 costs.

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Or at the very least, make it a text field that can filter with < or >

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So if I put in "<=4"
it filters everything 4 cost or less

idle shoal
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Perhaps this is too great a refactor, but maybe not. Could we simply have inequalities for the various numerical properties as a filter? For example, instead of Speedy (speed >=7) why not just have speed, allow user to select > or < and input a number? Being able to see high dps units per cost would be nice too (similar to what you're doing for tank).

visual depot
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Less burden on the player I'd assume

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I hope they do so but yeah

candid ivy
placid geyser
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Removal != nuker, so I don't understand what exactly you're asking me

candid ivy
candid ivy
placid geyser
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Yes. Cleaver, Colossus, Harbinger, Ah'Mun, Assassin, maybe Prowler (at least Rabid for sure) and Golems (at least Red), Shen, boomers (despite you putting them as removal).

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Essentially minions that usually 1 shot a non-beefy medium cost unit

candid ivy
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Aka Minions that you can play as counters and will barely take damage in turn

placid geyser
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Well, and boomers

candid ivy
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I'm struggling to define a pattern with this tho

placid geyser
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What kind of pattern?

candid ivy
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being able to do a single hit of > 50 damage per mana spent or smth similar might work

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I mean I could just write down a list of every minion we think should be in that category, but that's not gonna be very futureproof unless we figure out what exactly this category is about

placid geyser
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Rather something like being able to do 150+ dmg in a single hit

candid ivy
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does this mean Fireball fits in there? Is this just a "Nuke" category?

placid geyser
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It would if it were a minion

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For me it's more intuitive that nukers are minions, and removals are spells (and minions with spell-like ability I guess)

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But that's just me

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But Nuke category wouldn't be a bad compromise

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As long as you can have an additional filter of minion/spell so you can just search for minions that deal a lot of damage

candid ivy
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I could probably easily keep removal as it is and then make an extra filter with everything that does 150+ damage in one hit or in quick succession

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I'm assuming you wouldn't object to scratillery and beam of doom being in this category?

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and yeah, you can always just stack filters

visual depot
placid geyser
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Still unsure if the cap should be at 200+ dmg so maybe there would be a low fewer cards there. Might be better as there are more thresholds at 200 so it fits more

candid ivy
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200 would exclude prowler, caber tosser, quite a lot of spells

placid geyser
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Yep, that's the goal 😄

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But rabid prowler would still be game

candid ivy
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does Zip's Zappinator fit here in your mind? I.e. is this a question of immediate trading potential, or is it allowed to involve build up? And what about Ruby?

placid geyser
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Uhhh Zip got cooldown on ability now, right? Not sure then. Technically yes when ramped up, but feels sketchy. Ruby probably not now that I'm liking the 200 threshold more.

candid ivy
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So something like this:
Any card which can do 200+ controlled damage reasonably quickly after being played.

placid geyser
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Sounds good enough at the moment

candid ivy
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The intent is just to have a guideline for how to maintain this system with balance changes and new cards being added. Without something like this it becomes a mess quickly.

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So the bar is basically: simple that the designers will be able to remember without having to look it up all the time, and clear enough that an intern could do it

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With this Bahra makes the cut, but Shen does not

placid geyser
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Sucks to be Shen, I guess 😄

candid ivy
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would you say Caeleth makes the cut? Armor of Light is 75 + 130 from an attack

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I havent played Caeleth in years, so I don't actually have a good sense of how consistently you can pull that off

placid geyser
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Nope

obtuse canyon
placid geyser
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What's vague in it to you?

obtuse canyon
candid ivy
# placid geyser What's vague in it to you?

well it is a point that we don't have a chance to write descriptions for these, so it has to be intuitively clear to players who encounter it for the first time what actually goes into the filter, else it will be mostly unused and will just be clutter to most players
I think defining the 200+ damage as the threshold might accomplish this

obtuse canyon
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and any definition of "removal" that excludes Caber Tosser is very suspect

candid ivy
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This isn't exactly removal tho, that filter will also exist
The working name for this filter is "Nuke"

obtuse canyon
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oh mb I misread

candid ivy
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where removal is defined as: "Any card that is used primarily to remove an enemy minion and is not necessarily expected to leave anything behind after."
And nuke is: "Any card which can do 200+ controlled damage reasonably quickly after being played." so point at something and do big wollop

obtuse canyon
candid ivy
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The system doesn't really support exclusion exceptions, only inclusion, unfortunately

obtuse canyon
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blast. I was about to ask if it was possible to add "-[word]" to the search bar to exclude things. like say I type in the searchbar "heal -spell" to show priestess but not show healing fireball

candid ivy
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I mean, you could do heal+minion to get that result, or very close to it

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but nah, that kind of functionality isn't there right now, and it likely won't be a priority till waaay after 2.0 release

placid geyser
# obtuse canyon "removal" in card games means something played on reaction that takes action ins...

That's why I didn't classify them as removal, but as nukers. To me a nuker means it will deal a large amount of damage in a single hit. It's often important because even if it takes a long to swing, as long as it hits before the other thing attacks it can get clean hit with no damage taken. Ideally they would also be single hits, so things like Musketeer or shields are for you to consider in how you play them.

obtuse canyon
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does the "control" definition include net blaster?

candid ivy
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Anything that does any kind of root, slow, knockback, stun, freeze, fear, taunt, marked and netherstep xD

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so anything that allows you to play a card to change minions behavior from what would have been predicted otherwise

obtuse canyon
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nvm

lavish imp
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"Control" is pretty weird term for that IMO, it's associated with something else in card games - cards that bring you enough value to control the board

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Perhaps "Disruption" would be more accurate

placid geyser
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Or a more commonly used term in other genres, crowd control

lavish imp
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As for a new filter, I'd primarily like to see "Basic"/"No abilities" or something like that which would basicall list all the simpliest cards with no keywords - Warrior, Crossbow Dudes, Legionnaires, etc. So just non-conditional stat sticks.

quasi fulcrum
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no idea how much work it is to include stuff (and to remember it every patch :P)

lavish imp
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And one more bucket - "Risk & reward"/"Hazardous" or something alike. Basically all the cards you shouldn't put in your 2v2 deck if you're not the sharpest tool in the shed. Blood Pacts, Mana Puff Madness, Magma Storm, Gaxxx, Wheel of Doom, etc. So that people can claim "please don't play cards from this filter in 2v2s" to newbies

obtuse canyon
lavish imp
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And there could be (I guess at a later point if you're stuck with this UI) a red warning when selecting this filter like "Playing those cards in 2v2s is not recommended unless you know what you're doing, else you ma get reported."

lavish imp
candid ivy
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I suppose the dissonance of having those in there is less than the confusion of thinking it refers to control in the other sense

placid geyser
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How does taunt not fit crowd control?

candid ivy
placid geyser
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Got any sources to back that up? Never heard of taunt not fitting a crowd control.

candid ivy
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Not sure anyone has done any etymology research on the origin of crowd control xD that's how it was used when I first learned it in RYL or everquest, and it was firmly the same in WoW. But maybe I just failed to move with the times

lavish imp
candid ivy
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I was aiming for something in the vein of "minion control" more than anything else, but crowd control is probably the better term to use anyway, since more people will know what that means, even if we break the boundaries a bit

candid ivy
placid geyser
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That source says evequest had taunt as CC

candid ivy
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"refer to the ability to partially or completely disable one or more players or mobs, hence limiting the number of opponents actively fighting during an encounter. It can also refer to abilities that influence or prevent the abilities or actions of other characters." but it does specifically mention that there are diffferent uses of the term, one that contains Taunt, and one that does not

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I dont really remember taunt being CC in everquest, but it has been 20 years since i last played that game

placid geyser
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Never played it, but that's what the wiki link says

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But if something like a slow is CC, I don't see why taunt wouldn't be. Taunt often prevents using abilities and forces just basic attacks

candid ivy
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I have seen taunt forcing basic attacks, but that seems like a more recent innovation to me, in WoW it was exclusively about aggro control when I played. And slow becomes CC in the context of kiting mostly

idle shoal
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marked, nether step, cursed, and poison really shouldn't be considered crowd control imo. All of these except nether step could be considered debuff (I guess even nether step if you want to think of it as a range debuff, but that may be a stretch)

abstract saffron
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I missed a card filter that has abilities like Ruby or Akinlep's

obtuse canyon
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Typing "ability" into the search bar probably pulls all of them up.

IMO, the drop down for selectable filters should be reserved only things that either: 1. Can't be searched with one keyword or 2. Get searched so constantly that it deserves to be just one click away rather than typed every time.

abstract saffron
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I think a filter for siege-type units, which only attack buildings and the master's tower, should also exist.

uncut aurora
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how about a filter for "beginner friendly"
which could list cards that are simple to use with little room for misplays

considering 2.0 brings in new players

fierce pollen
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That's just the Common rarity filter tbh though it's not like most new players would know that

obtuse canyon
willow lantern
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Should be there also Defensive Spell as seprate filter

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Also, place where we have cards rarity (common, rare, supreme, legendary) should be separate icon just for Mythics cards imo

tardy moss
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I think the rarity filters are mostly for the crafting menu, as rarities don't have any impact on gameplay. Mythic isn't a rarity and has an impact on the gameplay, so it shouldn't be grouped together with the rarity filters.

willow lantern
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You are right that Mythic is not currently treated as a separate rarity, but noting the uniqueness of such units and their actions (including the effects they operate with) I think this should change.

austere bay
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I take this opportunity to ask if it would be possible for the filters to work when typing English terms even when playing with the client in French in version 2.0. Currently, most filters simply do not work when playing in French. For example, you cannot type "Légendaire" to access all your legendary cards. But you also cannot type "Legendary."

It's likely that the French filters work correctly, but the required spelling is too strict. For instance, accents and hyphens are essential for some cards to appear. I understand the idea, but from a purely practical standpoint, it's more annoying than anything else. Considering that it wouldn't make sense to ask you to optimize this functionality for all languages, it would at least be nice if it worked in English.

It's far from essential, and I believe many of us have simply done without these features for a long time. But it doesn't hurt to ask. 👌

upbeat ridge
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can we also have some filter/quick search system for decks please? (Or at least sort/filter by master)

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I have 40+ pages, and sometimes it is really hard for me to find a particular deck that I crafted the day before