Genia of the Ring

[gritty hare]

Genia of the Ring should be able to target a spellcaster, but it cannot.

[fallen umbra]

We do not know yet if it can or cant be special summoned by targeting a Spellcaster, because theres no card that has the same kind of effect yet. The closest I think we have is Droplet vs a monster that is already negated, so theres a decent chance it would be allowed to activate by targeting a Spellcaster, but the coders are probably erring on the side of caution until Konami says it will work.

[inner gazelle]

i would even think that it doesnt work. the reason for it being that in your droplet example you can only use it on a negated monster because of the stat manipulation. and in the example of "dimensional allotrope varis" a judge told me at a tier 2 that i cant declare light psychic with its effect. but yeah we dont know for sure

[fallen umbra]

The main reason I mentioned Droplet is because Droplet does 2 things, negate, and change the Atk. Genia also does 2 things, summon and change the type, so it might work, but since Konami hasnt provided any ruling on it, its scripted to not allow it

[inner gazelle]

your right, i missread the conjunction

[gritty hare]

well the also conjuction says that neither a or b is required for each other

so it shouldn't be a matter of rulings thats just how the conjunction is

[fair fog]

guess we wait for konami to say what it do

[gritty hare]

well i'm just saying now that it should work because that's just how the also conjunction works

[fallen umbra]

Conjunctions are not a matter of card activation legality, theyre for determining how an activated card resolves.

[gritty hare]

is that not the same thing? if a spellcaster is a legal target, which it would be because of the conjunction, than it's a legal activation

[fallen umbra]

No. When it says "Neither of these effects is required for the other" its refering to when youre resolving the effect. When activating a card, you still MUST be able to perform all mandatory actions of the effect for the activation to be legal.

Ill use Genia's effect as an example.

Lets say I activate Genia in the hand, and I target a Yubel on my field. CL2 the opponent activates Fallen & Virtuous, targeting Yubel to destroy it. F&V pops Yubel, now my target for Genia is gone.

Since the effect is a "Do A, also Do B" and neither is required for the other, even though the target on the field is gone, I can still summon Genia with its effect.

If Genia were to leave the hand after I activate the effect, but before that chain link resolves (for example, I send it to the GY for Droplet cost as CL2), then even though I cannot summon Genia now, it still will change my Yubel into a Spellcaster, since doing A isnt required to do B.

To activate Genia though, I still need both Genia in hand to summon, and also a card on the field to target to change to a Spellcaster

[gritty hare]

yes, but not all parts of the effect are mandatory

A or B is mandatory, A AND B is not mandatory

as long as there is a target on board for genia, A is able to be performed, and if A is able to be performed, B is not mandatory

[fallen umbra]

That is incorrect. Both the summon and the type change are mandatory parts of the effect. Neither says "you can" before it

If it was optional, it would say
If this card is in your hand: You can target 1 face-up monster on the field; Special Summon this card, also you can make that target become a Spellcaster monster.

Another example is Kewl Tune Rotary's last bullet point effect ● Look at your opponent's hand, then you can add 1 "Kewl Tune" Spell/Trap from your Deck to your hand.

Looking at the opponents hand is a mandatory part of activating the card. If the opponent does not have cards in hand, you cannot activate that effect at all, since you cannot look at a hand that doesnt exist.

Additionally, the add 1 "Kewl Tune" Spell/Trap from your Deck to your hand part is optional. You can activate the bullet effect even if you do not have any KT Spell/Traps in your deck, since adding a card is optional.

[gritty hare]

rotary is different

[fallen umbra]

The only card I can find that has a "you can" optional effect as part of a "Do A, also do B" is Gimmick Puppet Fantasix Machinix.

You can detach 1 material from this card; add 1 "Rank-Up-Magic" Spell from your Deck to your hand, also you can Normal Summon 1 Machine monster during your Main Phase this turn, in addition to your Normal Summon/Set (you can only gain this effect once per turn).

It grants an additional normal summon of 1 Machine monster. When you perform a normal summon, you can use either the normal summon each player gets per turn, OR use the extra normal from Fantasix.

Despite the fact its optional, you actually cannot activate the effect if youve already gained an additional normal summon that turn, even if you havent used it yet, and even if you have a "Rank-Up-Magic" spell in deck to search.

[fallen umbra]

Again, conjunctions are for resolving a card youve already activated. They play no role for determining activation legality.

You should read the whole page youre linking

[gritty hare]

just gonna throw this here

[fallen umbra]

This is the same argument I made referencing Droplet, which is why I think Genia probably will be legal to activate by targeting a Spellcaster, but again, we have no actual official ruling on it. We have similar rulings for other cards, but the only official rulings for cards comes from Konami themselves, not TCG judges

Also their reasoning for Pain Lanius isnt exactly correct. The order that the level modulation is listed in (being last) isnt necessarily the reason it can be legally activated. Its literally just "Konami said you can do it" and didnt say why.

[gritty hare]

this is from head judges at the side deck so you’re aren’t gonna get much more than this ¯_(ツ)_/¯