Additional Reward to Encourage WS Participation

[long heron]

Introduce exclusive WS points which you can only earn by participating WS
The points are consumable and used for give modules, buildings additional upgrade

How to earn WS points:
The WS points are team-based. When a WS ends, WS points are given to all participants in the team.
A loss WS match gives 10 pts
A win WS match gives 20 pts
And to encourage players to get relics, it gives extra 1 point every 3 relics (round down)
For example, a win match with 35 relics get 31(20+11) points, a loss match with 22 relics get 17(10+7) points
PS. It's a concept, the numbers can be adjust

What do WS points do:
You can consume WS points to upgrade modules or buildings. Content is different from credits' upgrade
I'll call it "WS upgrade"
There are 10 level of WS upgrade of modules(not every module have WS upgrade)
For example, every level of RSE requires 6 WS points to cook and gives +3 seconds to the module

Level  0  +0 second
Level  1  +3 seconds
...
Level 10 +30 seconds

A RSE 13 (80s) with WS upgrade level 5 (15s) add 95s per artifact

For another example, consume 50 points to unlock the third research slot

This can be pretty various, in my next post I will give some examples ideas of my own, but these are just examples of what it could be

1. TP cooldown time in WS, require 7 WS points to cook and reduces 12 minutes per level
   With level 10, the cooldown time is 6h

2. Genesis and Enrich coolsown time in RS, require 5 WS points to cook and reduces 6 seconds per level
   With level 10, the cooldown time is 4m

3. Shipyard (fleet size), requires 150 WS points to increase 1 max fleet cap. There are only 4 level of this upgrade
   With level 4, The max fleet size is 20

4. Relay bonus, requires 3 WS points to cook and gives +5% per level
   Relay 11 (+1200%) with WS upgrade lv10, bonus is +1300%

5. Relay hydro cost reduction, requires 5 WS points to cook and reduces 3% of hydro cost per level
   Relay 11 (200 per cargo) with WS upgrade lv10, cost is 140 per cargo

6. Mass battery max targets, requires 100 points to increase 1 max target. There are only 2 level of this upgrade
   With level 2, max targets are 5

7. Leap activating time in BLS, requires 100 points to decrease 1 second, There are only 2 level of this upgrade
   With level 2, activating time is 8s

8. Decoy drone additional mechanism, requires 200 points to unlock
   Decoy drone takes multiple targets weapon damage all on its own. Interceptor's 6 target MB will all attack the decoy drone and the drone takes 6x damage as well
   This can buy a bit time to emp cerbs when guarding the planet
   This function should be able to toggle once unlocked

9. Relic drone additional mechanism, requires 200 points to unlock
   You can make relic drone go home anytime you want, instead of waiting fully load or empty the planet

10. Pulse additional mechanism, require 200 points to unlock
    Pulse activates only when there is enemy in its attack range
    This function should be able to toggle once unlocked

I believe there are still many good thoughts that I didn't list here. And the content, including the numbers, WS points cost... is not 100% precise or reasonable. People's opinions are needed here

HS players really have a tons of good thoughts on module or building improvement
So why not let the players earn by themselves? and at the same time bring the motivation to join WS back

[gaunt solstice]

Encourages loss farming. No ty

[long heron]

how did that encourage loss farming? it's encouraging people to get relics and win

[gaunt solstice]

1. points for losing
2. points for beating another loss farm

[long heron]

that can't be called as "encourage losing"
give losing team nothing would just scare small corp away and demoralize players

[graceful field]

The dynamics can be adjusted, maybe points for relics conversion, but the winning team gets two points for each relic they score more.

So if you win 25-10, then both teams gets 10 points, then the winning team gets 15×2= 30 extra

That way losing teams who try get rewards, and it's more difficult to game the system.

Ultimately, worrying about how teams rig and exploit systems is impossible to cover and systems that benefit and encourage regular players who want to play the game shouldn't be dismissed just because "some teams can find a way to manipulate this" because all systems can be manipulated.

I don't like the idea of credit/hydro rewards, or direct regular economy benefits being linked to white star, but the idea that the player can get a similar temporary buffs, like the corp does, for engaging with WS, and if it can be done in such a way that it isn't just a participation reward, then that can only serve to improve WS

[gaunt solstice]

Yes just like Corp xp which should be removed

[hexed creek]

There are talks of significant changes with this idea. The point system could work, but instead of both teams getting points, it should be one team by outpacing the other.

Example - Team A has 10 relics. Team B scored 25

Team B wins and that difference is given to all Team B members as a reward. This'll encourage whittling down opponents further and increasing your own.

If a loss reward must be given consideration, then we can offer Team A points after subtracting half of Team B's gains from Team A.

In this case, Team As relic score must be within a certain range with Team Bs. So Team A's 10 relics (10 points) will be reduced to 2.5 points after conversion with win/loss/point gap in mind from T B's gains (15)

[graceful field]

Teams who lose need to get some reward if they invest effort in the game.

The biggest problem in white star is engagement mismatch, especially in the medium tier (rs9-10 level) group.

The reward scaling should be done in such a way that low effort farming is not productive.

For example, a logarithmic scale on relic:points conversion.

The first 5 relics a team scores converts to 0 points each
The next 5 are 1 point
The next 5 are 2 points
The next 5 are 4 points etc

The winning team gets an extra point for each of the relics in their winning margin

For 25-10 this would convert to:

Winner: 75 base points + 15 = 90 points
Losing team: 5 points

For 25-20, this converts to:

Winners: 75 base + 5 = 80 points
Losing team: 35 points

This week encourage teams to engage more in white stars, not just give up the moment it gets hard or they suffer a minor set back.

Loss farming won't be possible as you need at least 6 relics to even get a point

[hexed creek]

Good points

[rain sky]

so if both corps are similar in power and effort, non of them gets the rewards?
say, the game ends at 11-10. I dont see any wqy to reward effort and victory in the current system (or any/most of the mentioned) to also not encourage loss farming.

the idea to have some temporary personal rewards for WS is great tho

(or not temporary, didnt form an outlined opinion yet)

-# what if there was a secondary point system for taking out player ships🤔?

[graceful field]

Well 11-10 could then work out as the following:

Winner: 8 points
Loser: 5 points

But it's a low scoring game

I'm actually inclined to think the numbers should be weighting the relic difference more to stop peaceful white stars being agreed to get massive points scores.

Maybe the points can be based on the distance the relics had to to the gate, so stealing from enemy P1 yields massive rewards

There probably also should be a maximum points for winners (let's say 100 points) and losers (let's say 40 points)

[rain sky]

the 25-10 example
25p corp: gets a fixed reward (10points) for winning
10p(losing) team: to maximize the rewards, they have to get as close to the other team's relics count as possible.
-> 25-24 means both gets close to similar points
-> 25-10 means that the losing team gets lower rewards. still not bad as they hit the minimum treshold to recive points (as explained below)

additionally, a minimum cap can be done too: 10relics minimum ->10points

thats what i came up with on the moment

[graceful field]

Fixing a reward for winning just means teams will try for minimal victory efforts

I think the multiplier should be (winning team / losing team)+1 relics

So win 10-5 or 50-25 and it's a 3x multiplier

But win 50-49 and the multiplier is 2.02x

The number of relics should also count, we want to see high scoring games, but also games with a big winning margin.

So 50-25 will be better than 10-5, but that should probably be as good as 50-45 once the algorithm is applied

[silver wolf]

Should just be ws objectives once your ws is scanned and opponent found you get a "completist" type deal with every match that is simple enough but shows you still participate. I'm saying every single ws match tho. So do minimal credits maybe even some with minimal crystals

Would be the easiest way while still requiring participation hopefully with minimal loss farming but you will always have that I think

[rain sky]

not sure on the rewards but its a solid proposal.

[graceful field]

We shouldn't directly feed into the regular economy with white Star.

Having objectives to be met is another way to distribute the points

But the idea of white stars feeding temporary bonuses (eg, things like extra research slot, reduced jump in costs, extra star harvester bonus, maybe even temporary modules upgrades (+1 on weapons modules for a week)

That you can lease short term with your WS points would encourage engagement in WS

Just being yet another tap for credits diluted the pool

[silver wolf]

I said minimal. Not saying like the old ws bar 🤣

But instead of that reward. Do personal ws objectives if you complete them. Then you get like the additional things you said. Instead of crystals/credits

If whole corp wins then you get the corp bonus.

Even if you loose you get a personal thing seams stil like loss farming tho lmao

Win + complete = reward lmao can't loose then gain it?

[vernal gale]

I like this idea.
I particularly like the ideas of increasing relay bonuses and reducing the Hydro consumption for relays.
WS players are working on leveling up various mods, and the leveling up of Shipments mods tends to lag behind.
And there are players who don't have the energy or time to work on shipments. I used to be like that too.
Players who don't play WS can use the drone shipments, so there shouldn't be any problem.

[cloud crystal]

I don't know about basing it only on relic count, I feel like it would encourage a specific playstyle, and reward teams who arrange matches to get massive point differences.
For example, some teams go for aggressive styles, that focus less on producing a lot of relics, and more on stopping opponents from producing any, which doesn't lead to high-scoring games, despite high participation from both teams.

Maybe some sort of modification for ships killed could balance that, but it would still be extremely vulnerable to arranged matches.