Hades' Star Roadmap Update - Discussion

[deft phoenix]

Then let's add Level 8 BTS

[quasi orbit]

Solitude is the reason. Why bother with 3 ships in one sector, when each one of them can do over 3 times more damage, with the benefit of being alone in the sector?

[safe nacelle]

I did enjoy playing with a fleet before, but there are issues that come with that as well. it was difficult to spam all ships to coordinate movement, and I imagine that is exacerbated with faster ship movement in dn

I think the best path forward would be to open up a strategy oppositional to solitude with its own pros and cons

[deft phoenix]

Solitude is not the reason for META BUILDS; it just made the situation worse because of the fact that other things were not designed around Solitude from the beginning of DN.

[deft phoenix]

I mean, we could always add Unity back alongside Solitude

[quasi orbit]

No weapon module was designed around solitude. All of them has downsides, and it just so happend, that mbatt's only downside was small dps, which solitude nullified

[deft phoenix]

Remove target switch delay in Battery & Barrage

Or make it ridiculously low

[safe nacelle]

I guess unity could work, but it would need to work with the players own ships as well.

[deft phoenix]

Yes; it would.

We cannot nerf solitude; we'll get withdrawl symptoms as a playerbase.

[safe nacelle]

I would lean more towards buffing DRS enemy stats versus tuning down weapons

[deft phoenix]

Yes PROGRESSIVE DIFFICULTY

[safe nacelle]

but I think a unity mod could allow fast and safer sector clearing, but with the downside of slower overall clearing as compared to solitude

[deft phoenix]

Perfect.

[crude pumice]

Drs "3 bs max" is the reason

[safe nacelle]

Unity would also play well into the dynamic of DRS limiting battleships to three. It may trivialize modes with more than three battleships/would need to only count for the players own ships and not allies.

[quasi orbit]

Why not take WAMP instead of solitude then?

[crude pumice]

I have no idea what even your point is

[safe nacelle]

checkmate

[quasi orbit]

And what was yours? We can't 12v1 a phoenix, so playing without constant 300+% dps bonus is pointless?

[safe nacelle]

im confused and too lazy to read all the context

what are you in favor of drone fan?

[crude pumice]

My point is simply that piloting a handful of bs, like we used to, and building a "fleet loadout" had interesting dimensions that didn't survive DN/drs/soli.

If the new modes can bring back some of that, that'd be cool.

[quasi orbit]

Define "didn't survive"

[safe nacelle]

I agree, I’d like to see fleets be viable again. I wouldn’t change the DRS Max ships, I think the best change would be a unity style mod to buff the strategy.

[deft phoenix]

I would agree that fleets in multiplayer DRS would be cool - especially with voice-chat (though not really that neccessary), co-ordination compared to 3 of your own ships would be a breeze.

[safe nacelle]

alternatively, to account for modes allowing multiple allies, the buff could follow a diminishing return function

there are few, if any, complex module functions in the game. I think something like that could work well for balancing.

[deft phoenix]

I can imagine it being abused slightly in corp star, so that works.

[quasi orbit]

If people are so bored of mbatt+soli meta, then they should ditch either mbatt or soli to get the challenge they so desire, instead of suggesting power creep for cerbs

[deft phoenix]

They should not be forcing themselves to do so though

Because its a game it ought to naturally be on par

Although, yes I would personally do so once I feel the game's progression has begun to crawl (ie when DRS starts or at DRS 12), but I should not have to do that myself

[crude pumice]

You keep circling back to this point like we're suggesting balance changes and not discussing high-level directions for the new game modes

This solitude conversation has been played out countless times already in every other channel, I don't think it's the best use of that one to have it again here

[safe nacelle]

sure, players could intentionally use suboptimal loadouts. But I think there’s a lot of merit to the discussion, both to the fact that solitude and mbatt are too strong late game, and that there’s no alternative strategy close to its efficacy. I don’t think adjustment should involve making solitude and mbatt bad, but perhaps it should feel that a single target weapon could be useful. I would like to see a fleet formation become an alternative strategy with its own pros and cons, which it is not at this time.

there’s also multiple things working against people trying to avoid solitude. Notably phoenix and Hydra. I would say the game makes you feel a bit dumb for trying to not use solitude in late game DRS.

[quasi orbit]

I disagree. Mbatt became the meta with soli, because it is the most consistent weapon in the game and has it's downside completely nullified 24/7. So it outperforms everything else, aside from several negligible exceptions. And no matter how many buffs the alternatives get, people won't switch off mbatt because of that consistency

[fluid quiver]

Mass was always the meta

6 target sit and do nothing with salvage was always the meta

Don’t act like solitude is the only thing that made mass relevant. It’s been my main weapon for 90% of hades

Made blast shield irrelevant even back in the day. When I could target 18 enemies nothing could hit me

Seeing how slow the capitals are to clear with mass I can see people using one single target ship to speed those up if they did even moderately good damage and could defend themselves

[safe nacelle]

I agree with your rationale for mass battery, but of course people will switch off of it if there is an alternative provided with its own benefits. I can easily think of a scenario, such as the removal of the target switch Delay for battery, for example.

I would probably run two mass battery solitude ships, and one battery solitude ship for heavy clearing if this was changed

[quasi orbit]

It is true that mbatt was always the preferred pick due to it's consistency, but with the addition of actual time limit in DN, it's efficiency without damage boost is greatly decreased

[safe nacelle]

another consideration could be to just buff hydra health a little bit, to create a enemy that is so tanky that it necessitates more damage than just mbatt can provide

having tankier enemies would bias away from the laziness of all mbatt respectfully

[quasi orbit]

And what will it achieve? 10 more seconds of autoclearing? 20? 30?

[safe nacelle]

sure, say it takes 15 more seconds to drop a hydra

and if you had a single target ship it could be close to 30 seconds faster each

i think it changes the calculus

again i dont want mbatt to be unusable, but diversity of tools is fun in the game

[quasi orbit]

Or you can keep using mbatt to make up for those 15 seconds by clearing trash sectors faster

[safe nacelle]

i would disagree, i think no switch delay on batt would make it fairly strong at trash clearing

and so once you wipe your heavy ships with it, you put it in other sectors

[quasi orbit]

Only if batt's damage triples mbatt's

Otherwise, it will be net negative

[safe nacelle]

i mean its lvl 15 is 1000 dps vs 400 on mbatt

so unless your mbatt is always on 3 targets it is better

and i like those types of decisions with mods, i want to be allowed experiment, but instead this is a hypothetical conversation because batt is fairly unusable at this time

[quasi orbit]

Also, take the shields into consideration. Their low hp pools make sentinels devastating, and if batt lock onto a bunch of guardian first, you'll take a lot of damage

That's also one of the reasons for mbatt meta. It increases survivability by destroying enemies faster, so they can do less damage

[safe nacelle]

exactly, it would require consideration of where to place a ship with batt

correct, that is a bonus of mbatt

im a little lost, what change are you wanting to see in the game?

[quasi orbit]

Hopefully, a meaningful one

[safe nacelle]

for mods, enemies?

a gamemode?

a buff or debuff

[quasi orbit]

Drs cerberus ships definitely need a rework

Especially storms, so they wouldn't punish players for not using mbatt

And more asteroid fields in trash sectors, so single target weapons could get more wiggle room

[safe nacelle]

thats pretty fair, storms are pretty brutal

emp can help, but not as much with 2 per planet, and no one runs barrier

yeah those sound like great ideas

[quasi orbit]

And -2 minutes of cooldown and uptime for shields with cooldowns

[safe nacelle]

im not sure exactly how to change storms though~

maybe just less tanky?

[quasi orbit]

Less speed, and only 1 dart with double stats

Maybe, a 7s firing interval

[safe nacelle]

shields CDs also need tuning for sure, you dont see mirror or omega or impulse in drs, i think later level PvE buffs would be reasonable

[orchid zinc]

I think the damage for batt and mbatt is good. Batt should not be 3x mb. That's too strong. The only reason i stopped using batt and barrage is the tsd that cripples them

[quasi orbit]

Mirror shield can do wonders for single-target weapons, even with TSD. But right now, only once every 4 minutes

Cerberus density needs to be lowered

Especially in drs10 and above

[orchid zinc]

You should've seen what it looked like in old HS

[quasi orbit]

I've seen that

[orchid zinc]

My phone would bog down. It was awesome

[quasi orbit]

I got rs10 a couple months before DN

[orchid zinc]

Same

[safe nacelle]

maybe, that would certainly help with single target viability for trash sectors. i think many trash sectors are clearable now if not for TSD though

[quasi orbit]

Those 1 bomber + 1 guard sectors in drs9 are so much fun. I can jump around, eliminating bombers with dart or barrage without taking a lot of damage

But in drs10 they are all full of sentinels

The full guradian sectors from drs11 also look fun

I wonder what will happen if the amount of sentinels and guardians got halved, but their stats got doubled

[safe nacelle]

i imagine that would be decently effective at combating the mbatt dominance.

[fluid quiver]

If I attack planet with full shield I have my entire hull left by the time it’s clear. The hydra would need 3-4x more ho for this to be remotely effective imo

[fluid quiver]

Almost Colo at that point which I agree we could have more of. But sents do a wild amount of damage if you can’t pop them quick

[quasi orbit]

Yeah, doubling won't work well with them

[safe nacelle]

sure, and i wouldnt be opposed to this~~ but the time sink is a bigger consideration than tanking the dmage

i dont have high lvl batt, im interested how fast batt 14 takes down a hydra, maybe it is alright there

the TSD is horrible though, makes it really unappealing to invest in

[fluid quiver]

I’m just saying it would have to be a very significant increase or it will be irrelevant. If the bs can just sit and chill nobody will play around it. With current numbers batter is not actually that much more damage

[fluid quiver]

Agreed but something on these lines that’s balanced would be solid. Also means blast damage does less

[safe nacelle]

i disagree with tweaks needing to be huge, thats how you over tune

just tune up single target weapons and slightly buff some capital ships health, shifts the scale enough to where the time sink is unappealing. and sure, you could buff base hydra damage to light a fire there too, but im against mbatt being made entirely unviable, that would piss off a lot of players i imagine

you can make small shifts across updates to not radically anger players in one move too, doesnt have to be an immediate change

[fluid quiver]

With mass hydra has effectively 95k hp. With single target it goes up to 130 so even single target being more damage it needs to do more as well

[safe nacelle]

well the bulk of health mbatt does 400 base since theres one target, its a dynamic equation

[plain grove]

A high level combat module (I think level 11) that can be a solitude alternative could be interesting.

[safe nacelle]

ehhh i dont think an important meta defining mod should be introduced at 11

[fluid quiver]

We have quite a few mods that could replace it if they had much shorter cooldowns imo. Rockets would be really fun to use again but you’d almost need one for each sector

[quasi orbit]

Locking that behind 40t will kill it's meta potential

[plain grove]

It shouldn't be a valid mod for lower red stars

The gameplay should evolve

[safe nacelle]

perhaps

[plain grove]

If we are just playing the same game at 11 that we play at 7

Then that's why people get burned out

[safe nacelle]

this brings up the question of how new mods get introduced, which i think is an important question for the game.

[plain grove]

People who bitch about "how long it takes" to see progress between rs9 and 10 have no idea how cute they sound to the post 10m desert

[safe nacelle]

they wouldnt survive out there

[plain grove]

That's where new content needs adding, some reward for actually sticking with the game that doesn't penalise lower red star modes for not having it

[safe nacelle]

DN went through the trouble of trying to normalize blueprints across mods, but now new mods are getting added with abstract and arbitrary print requirements.

[plain grove]

Mass battery + solitude (with added flavours for BS6) is a great meta for lower red star builds.

What can be done to make the whale tier red stars differentiate themselves with new modules that wouldn't be valid in d7-9

What about something like salvage WAMP

[safe nacelle]

the post10m desert needs additions, but i dont think 17m should be the only place that occurs. but i agree with you

[plain grove]

As you kill enemies, you get a damage multiplier

[fluid quiver]

Very early game still supports 3 bs no sol play. Around rs5-6 sol takes effects. I agree a change in major tactics would be great but maybe mid/late rs10 so when people are starting into the desert they get another thing to try

[plain grove]

But it is only worthwhile in high density sectors you get from d10 onwards

[fluid quiver]

What’s sad is even if we brought something like unity back I think most players wouldn’t use it. Hard to find a competent group compared to simply depending on your own known strength

[plain grove]

It could also be set up that ships in the same sector also get the multiplier

So therefore works against solitude

[fluid quiver]

Bases that need a minimum damage threshold to be hurt

[plain grove]

Could pair great with motion

When I say salvage wamp, should clarify I mean for allies only

[safe nacelle]

if an advanced challenge mode is added, it would be awesome for mod like unity to change the late game meta

[fluid quiver]

Unity for green stars since it’s corp wide

[safe nacelle]

I think a unity mod should work on the players own ships and allies, but have diminishing returns, maybe something like +50%, +33%, +25%, +15% ... with each new ship

[fluid quiver]

Could make it even lower but work with/ for drones too. Make drone squad and stuff actually viable

[safe nacelle]

Unity could be nice for players struggling with soli in DRS, which is why i think an earlier introduction would be nice

[plain grove]

A drs map designer where the creator sets module levels (meaning they could set solitude to 0) and publish them on a community board to play would be interesting

With a set goal

So "clear cerbs in 5m" with gold/silver/bronze" options

[safe nacelle]

i think a lot of people would love community creatable content, that would require a lot though

[crude pumice]

Prints 😢

[plain grove]

To be submitted they have to submit a replay achieving gold

[safe nacelle]

namely, a diversity of what objectives people would be completing~
I think a editor would work well if paired with a simulation station as some suggestions have put forward
~ that or a campaign mode ~

[plain grove]

I am not sure a campaign mode works for HS, it's basically Athena.

HS is not a narrative campaign, it's more like something like Angry birds (IE a collection of challenges)

Note: I don't mean the gameplay is equivalent to angry birds

[safe nacelle]

im thinking of just a series of missions/ challenges that unlock

so like preset PvE encounters with various win conditions

these could also be tied to existing game systems, like requiring a mission be complete to unlock a module, upgrade a station, build new stations, etc.

so not really narrative or lore related at all, more so unique missions ~ this would make a community map-builder function fit much nicer into the broader game

[plain grove]

Fair enough

That could work, but I think the first step should be individual maps, basically like challenge maps made by players in portal

[safe nacelle]

I would disagree since there needs to be a foundation for how challenge mission work

I guess those could get baked into a community content update, but introducing a challenge/mission series first seems more logical

I have some win condition ideas in my campaign mode suggestion
🏆 Win Conditions:
Kill # Enemies
Retrieve # Relics
Reach the jump gate
Boost # Artifacts
Destroy the Cerberus Base
Mine the asteroid

[quasi orbit]

Took me a couple hours to put my thoughts into something comprehensible.

Current PvE design fails to provide situations where single-target weapons are more preferable. And PvE gets progressively more multi-target centered with each level (increased enemy amount, storms, ghosts).
And all those band-aid fixes like TSD removal or unity reintroduction won't change much, since the game itself does not require usage of single-target weaponry.

Actually, multi-target bias is most likely caused by the fundamentals of the game's design.
After all, combat in Hades' Star is simple, and the ability to neutralize multiple threats at once is simply better, since you can't set targets. Especially is the battleship is alone in the sector.
But then it loops back around to underwhelming reward for the risk that comes with single-target weapons.

[fluid quiver]

Rocket and dart spam down make that easier either

[safe nacelle]

I think you’re right. Im not sure how to rebalance drs10/11 though.
I agree with adding more targetable motion points in each sector
I think TSD removal is a strong place to start
Maybe changing the add sectors to be fewer but stronger ships? Idk though, because 3 colossi or phoenix will drop to mbatt.. so…

[quasi orbit]

Quality over quantity is the way to go for PvE gameplay diversity

[long gust]

I will just add AOE (vengence as example) as a side note

[safe nacelle]

but like, what exactly changes to drs 11, say

because you are right, ghosts, storms, bombers and trash enemy amount pile up

[long gust]

Cerverus bases are quite famous here. Only time I ever used battery, and I didnt play preDN.

but it lacks variety on it own. and the game is not strong on variety of effects. right now its either targeted by weapon or AOE, making it way harder to give different kinds of opponets.

what I mean is that having bigger but few cerbs wont solve things long run. it will just make DPS buff mods more famous

[quasi orbit]

I'd make ghost portals much less frequent, but permanent and capturable. A control point that spawns enemies, but stops once you capture it.

Can't thing anything for hydra right now

[fluid quiver]

I just don’t understand the argument against twd fix. Even if we say it’s not the issue with single target weapons it’s definitely not helping and it’s a good place to start with no negatives. Iv been playing with rl recently and it’s actually decent. I think the other weapons could be too with simple fixes. People yearn for lasers back they need a fix too

[safe nacelle]

im not personally sure how to rework late game to have STWs viable, here is a start though:

1. Change some filler sectors to 1-2 tanky enemies to make mbatt suboptimal (ie 1-2 hydra)
2. Remove TSD completely, this means a STW can clear a ghost hoard with solitude comparably to mbatt (a bit worse though)
3. Buff capital ship health, including
4. Buff projectiles, but they only shoot one.
5. Have enemies spawn into planet sectors in waves, such that an aggressive player can clear out a planet sectors before it is overwhelmed with enemies (somewhat feasible now, only 2-3 cap ships at a time)

[fluid quiver]

I would like to see fewer and more interesting verb though

[safe nacelle]

defenestrate

[quasi orbit]

Rl is powerful, because it can hit indefinite amount of enemies, but you need to ensure that the rocket will reach it's destination. A good example of risk vs reward

[fluid quiver]

Yeah but I mean the dps in general is decent. The dps for other single target weapons are not great for various reasons

[quasi orbit]

Single target weapons, with exception of single laser and cr, have great dps, the problem is that they are single-target

[safe nacelle]

I think the point of making fewer scenarios with 3 enemies targeted at once is a good one

if more filler sectors had 2 hydras, that would change the calculus A LOT

[fluid quiver]

Dl takes too long to ramp. Battery is weaker than mass level for level, dart just gets shot down from trash spam

[long gust]

idea on how to give a "challange" to tbose who want to: (re)introduce selcted module disable. a certain mod -on cerberus too- can neutralize a select mod type.
in the range of X cerb, you cant use shield or drones, or it can emp those slots of yours.

[fluid quiver]

You get his super hard by all the trash that single target is simply too slow. That’s why blast damage is all the rage at high levels

[quasi orbit]

Rs6 trash sectors spawn in waves, ones in higher levels of rs should too.
Imagine if non-planet bomber sectors in drs started with only a bomber, and then gradually filled up with other cerberus ships, and at the end, a 2nd bomber would arrive. Single-target weapons could be used to take those bombers out before their cavalry arrives, but it won't fix the problem of mbatt + soli being able to easily do that as well

[long gust]

some fixes -that you mentioned- os needed before brainstorming on how to make interesting(?)/hard again.

[fluid quiver]

In theory maybe but in practice it’s still better to leave the planets until they fill. Spend time early clearing trash and then boom the planets

[quasi orbit]

Straight up removing player's ability to interact with the game in certain ways is a bad design

[quasi orbit]

That's a part of "why have fun when you can mbatt?" problem

[safe nacelle]

that sounds fair. combine later spawns with more tanky & frequent capital ships, and mbatt becomes less required

[fluid quiver]

But that’s not even mass its boom combat mods

[quasi orbit]

Wait right yeah

[safe nacelle]

hell, start out 2 bombers still. if you juke the first rocket volley, you could take 2 bombers out before the next rockets no problem

[long gust]

than just copy what hydra does with emp? but giving more HP, have less enemies wont solve the issue with digficulty scaling. no new puzzle to figure out or idk

[quasi orbit]

What is bomber's damage slowly increases while there are player's ships nearby?

[quasi orbit]

Without solitude, hydra is quite a puzzle

[fluid quiver]

Like a battery as is would be fine against a drs11 planet with leap since it would quickly clear the phoenix and hydra after you land. The issue is the trash sectors before that. So the option becomes leaving the battery ship sitting doing nothing while you wait for the sectors to fill up

[quasi orbit]

You can also clear the trash out, and let battery take care of bomber. But once again, why do that when you can 3 x mbatt?

[fluid quiver]

Bombers are often in other sectors but yeah I suppose. Not really viable until you got a high tele since you’ll be waiting for cooldown anyway

[safe nacelle]

i say dont touch solitude — an alternative should be added.
maybe a multi ship mod could be part of what breaks the x3 mbatt meta, and then you have to figure out how STWs fit into that picture

[long gust]

just remove massb, and have less rockets- darts XD

or any multi target

[safe nacelle]

nightmare

[long gust]

thats right

[fluid quiver]

What if we had the same number of cerb but a few more capitals and a more varied spread

[quasi orbit]

Fun will break the midbatt meta. How that can be achieved is a different story

[safe nacelle]

i think what you were saying is a great start

[quasi orbit]

What if cerberus forces had repair drones?
You want to damage more targets? You'll have to damage those too

[safe nacelle]

maybe throw this and some of the other stuff into a #1206751668344197191

throw lone bs with amongst the cerbs

[long gust]

also add a full cover barrier too, so you can only use teleport or alpha, like right now

[safe nacelle]

give every cerberus a permanent barrier 🤔
i think we are starting to get somewhere

[fluid quiver]

I’d like to see barrage need less targets for max bonus as well.

[safe nacelle]

id like to see a lot of single target reworks :(

[fluid quiver]

We think battery 10 enough to try in drs11?

[quasi orbit]

Some people wanted a support role cerberus ship. So how about a cerberus logistics ship?
A bomber-like ship. No weapons, runs away from combat and launches repair drones towards the players' ship in adjacent sectors

[safe nacelle]

#1211017616970489937 message

[safe nacelle]

can we like, dig this up? I want some more comment on this subject. I think andarbigad got a lot correct in the header post

[quasi orbit]

A healing bomber might be too boring, but I don't know how to make a constantly retreating target fun to interact with

[long gust]

healing interceptor? runs between capital ships

[safe nacelle]

its one of the most supported suggestions of all time, i dont think many players are arguing that STWs are in a good spot. Its difficult for suggestions for each weapon mod to gain traction, so you wont see another like this suggestion

[quasi orbit]

Btw, what are STWs?

[safe nacelle]

i got tired of typing single target weapons, sorry

get with the hip lingo

very very cool

[long gust]

It could be more like a constant HP buff, you have to find a work around to kill cerb that it will heal

not attack it, prevent it from doing its purpose

[quasi orbit]

Repair drones won't heal much if you don't destroy them, so it can be a convoluted single-target weapons buff

[long gust]

just combo it with cargo repair. a small hp heal is granted to arrive, if it reaches the other cerbs

you are smarter than me on this, I will let you figure it out why it wont work

[quasi orbit]

What about cerberus reinforcements? A time-independent late spawn. The more you stay in the sector, the stronger they will get. So the single-target dps advantage would matter

Still needs to be refined

Mbatt's designs is so simple and efficient, that you can't really make it "balanced". It will either outperform everything else, or be garbage

[safe nacelle]

disagree, we discussed some ways

1-2 tanky enemy sectors would instantly make batt better

as in several sectors with 2 beefy enemies, mbatt would greatly underperform, leaving the 2 alive longer and take much more damage

[quasi orbit]

Do those tanky enemies or anything else pressure the player to use STW over mbatt?

I have regen shield. I can just take a breather, and continue chewing their hp away

[fluid quiver]

I think a negative dps buff would be interesting. Say the cerb only takes damage over 400 dps so if you do 450 it only takes 50 dps

[quasi orbit]

It can work

But strict damage threshold might feel infair

[safe nacelle]

a STW would have a faster TTK for both, but also take one down faster, making the overall damage taken considerably less

[fluid quiver]

Doesn’t have to be super high to be effective imo

[quasi orbit]

The ability to regenerate shield hp nullifies that upside

[fluid quiver]

Could even have fairly low actual hp

[safe nacelle]

so mbatt could do guerrilla tactics, but the TTK for STW would theoretically be superior
I think a healthy game state would be players running mbatt and a STW at the same time

[safe nacelle]

if there are 5-6 beefy enemy sectors, time becomes a bit more of an issue

[fluid quiver]

At the end of the day I think planet v trash sector discrepancy is what we’re dealing with. Doesn’t matter what weapon you’ll be using when you attack a planet is mostly irrelevant. Weapons are solely for clearing trash which because of its nature is better with multi target

[quasi orbit]

That's true, but the there will be a risk of having way too many bullet sponges in the system

[safe nacelle]

that is kind of the idea im serving up, make it so you need more bullets for the sponges

we need fewer but fatter sponges

[quasi orbit]

It can, and most likely will make the game much less dynamic

[safe nacelle]

if trash sectors are designed around different approaches, it could be made fairly dynamic

[quasi orbit]

Drs needs more points of interest. Cerberus supply bases, ghost portals at the edges of the system, etc.

[safe nacelle]

maybe some trash sectors should greatly benefit from mbatt, and some from a STW

[fluid quiver]

Yes please yes

[quasi orbit]

I wonder if Andreas reads this thread

[safe nacelle]

yea definitely what hes doing today lol

[fluid quiver]

I would like the map to continue spawning in cerbs and maybe bases into non mandatory but in the way sectors. So you can either take the long way around or clear them out.

[safe nacelle]

i think a colossi weapon ramp buff could also have a surprisingly big impact, make them more important to take down quickly

[fluid quiver]

Colo are trash from my perspective. I don’t even think about them

[safe nacelle]

correct, but if mbatt TTK was made inadequate w/o a ramp reset, that would be another boon for STWs

[fluid quiver]

Probably yeah. But a single kite is the least someone should be able to manage

[safe nacelle]

true

[fluid quiver]

Battery at level 12 is only 80% of total damage of mass in sector plus switch delay. IMO it needs to be more than 100% of mass damage. Combine these little changes and it would see some use.

I wish my battery was at 13 so I could truly compare but that’s not something I’m gonna level just to make a point

[quasi orbit]

Why not just go off numbers in hadesspace?

[safe nacelle]

I agree with the second part.
I think 80% is perfectly fine, if there are more 2 tank situations, as mbatt is worse there

[fluid quiver]

I am but my battery is currently 10 so if I wanted to actually try it I can’t actually get a feel

[fluid quiver]

But mass gains the advantage of projectile defense

[safe nacelle]

Hell, even with 3 it should be better, since killing one faster reduces damage taken~ idk though. game balancing hurts my head

[elder pulsar]

yg have been busy wow

[fluid quiver]

Damage isn’t always the only important aspect. Not getting hit accounts for a lot and I think mass wins that advantage here. Batter needs more dps to account for it, ideally one ticking sents with no switch delay

[safe nacelle]

i mean, the phoenix and hydra death rattles also reward mbatt. the deck is stacked against STWs

[elder pulsar]

maybe multi target weapons are what need tsd

:)

[safe nacelle]

i guess the balancing conversation should really also determine if a Unity style mod is going to be introduced, because then STWs could serve a role in a fleet.

it has not been communicated whether Solitude is intended to be mandatory and without contest

[elder pulsar]

no mod should be uncontested imo

damnit

impulse buff then

more movement mods would be nice

[safe nacelle]

i was just thinking a unity style mod should buff PvE speed to help account for the slower clearing than soli

[fluid quiver]

If people can argue that gate cheese is intended is obvious sol meta in drs was as well

[quasi orbit]

PvE in this game has so much unused potential. It's a space RTS where combat is complex, but doesn't have a lot of moving parts.
And yet, the PvE is mostly about chewing through a wall of enemies. No wonder mbatt is so popular, you can chew through 200% more wall with it. Perhaps, such absurd amounts of cerberus ships was necessary, so dark and normal red stars wouldn't look so barren.
Now imagine if there was more points of interest on the map. Stationary hazards or benefits, which players could play around. Cerberus supply stations that you could capture for heals or module cd speedups. Pirate beacons that would bring a third side into the conflict to put extra pressure by wrecking havoc or trying to steal artifacts. It will greatly expand the strategic side of the game, and might even encourage players to completely change their builds for this specific run, because that build could benefit more frome the POIs on the map.

[fluid quiver]

“Capture station for mod cooldowns” yes please for genrich

[lavish turtle]

it wasn't popular in the past. People actively laughed at those using it. The issue is the switching delay of all the other weapons.

I used to use a mix of dart and barrage

the issue with ghosts means there is only one option, mass battery

[orchid zinc]

Alpha drone used to be good against ghosts. Which means battery is as well

Or was

[elder pulsar]

was

[unkempt ingot]

No target swap delay will do that to a ghost

We need a mod that helps target swap delay. At least then you are using a mod slot for that bls. Pve I think single target weapons should be a lot better to use

Obviously RL is decent but can barley even use dual laser for pve. Only using 2 mods like RL and mass batt is maybe the most repetitive part about drs/rs. I only have mass batt 😆

[modest warren]

We need more concrete inter corporation relations and joint activities. Building new corporations, teams and achieving different things has been at the heart of Hades for a long time and it needs more incentive, substance.

[lavish turtle]

I agree, the main point of this game is team building. More than anything the social aspect keeps everyone around.

[unkempt ingot]

I remember when they first invented social aspects...

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-hate-always-gif-18852948

[unkempt ingot]

Instead of ship cosmetics.. i was gonna make a separate suggestion for ship colors if there isn't one already. So for rs/drs/ys you can pick ship color like diplo. Whoever diplo/join rs, forces color like normal but you always see your ships your color. Ws/bls/ys/rs

Just don't allow same red as enemies in bls/ws do pink or light red maybe

[obtuse elm]

I agree especially about barrage. It was a great weapon for RS before DRS came about. Now I hardly see it used at all. I can’t even think of an application where it could be used in the current config.

[quasi orbit]

Pre-DN rs wasn't much better than what we currently have

[oak gulch]

module meta wise it wasnt just one single build like soli+mass and every other build wasnt far far off in terms of effectiveness.

Dart, laser, dlaser, barrage, triple mass all has pros and cons and you could clear the top floors of rs in a massive variety of metas, not just one meta that was better than everything else. Im not speaking generally about my experiences and how I think it was better, I am talking about how specifically the module meta was more diverse very clearly.

[surreal nest]

trade and fight is not a good combination

Yes, I want to progress in the game, but not a challenge every time I open it, I want to de-stress, not stressing more (every day life is enough stress for me thank you)

[fluid quiver]

And that’s fine but many players do want a challenge. I’d like to see the game built to cater to us both. Easy games are easy to lose interest in. For many of us we have nothing else to achieve. Nothing to unlock

[surreal nest]

it depends, you can always aim for something new... I've recently reached 1st place on the leader board (where i wasn't interested in before) and aiming to collect all modules to lv 15 someday as I'm more a collector than a competitor, this will keep me going for some years 🙂

[fluid quiver]

I also have those goals but that’s not a challenge that’s just a time sink. I want to play something that has a risk of failure

[surreal nest]

I understand, but I hate failure, so won't invest time in a game where I'm guarantied to lose at some time (what would be the point ?)

[fluid quiver]

To get better? To find new strategy. Failure isn’t a bad thing it’s how we learn

[surreal nest]

life is already proving me this risk of failure, that's enough for me 🤣

[fluid quiver]

Easy games are not games but simply movies you play along with. I need a challenge

But I also understand that not everyone is like that which is why I think the game needs optional challenges with rewards to suit. In the same way you can do rs if drs is too challenging we need another level or two.

[surreal nest]

propose what you want, but I'll do the same

and if the game ends up any more competitive, then I'll move on where it is more calm and collaborative 😉

[safe nacelle]

its a RTS, there are supposed to be combat challenges...

If spending a decade to get all lvl 15 mods is your ideal game, have a blast. there needs to be some things along that journey though.. obviously

[surreal nest]

all right, make this game one versus every other player then, no pb

[safe nacelle]

what

[brittle wren]

Now hear me out guys

A tech tree

Truly revolutionary i swear

[safe nacelle]

not to blow your mind, but thats kinda what modules are

you invest in the tech you want equipped

[brittle wren]

🤯

[fluid quiver]

I recall seeing people ask for mods to split off. Like mass and battery would be one mod for a few levels then split and you level both paths. I’m not sure what other mods you’d do that with. Perhaps taking mods we already have and giving them a new split? Teleport split gets a super short cd but can only go a very short distance.

[safe nacelle]

that could be very interesting, i like that

maybe mods could keep their 1-15 levels, but unlock some alternatives at lvl 10 or 12 that have bp requirements + something else?
could be an interesting mechanic for a new game mode, station, or content addition after rs9

[long gust]

or bond split. alternative where it pulls

[fluid quiver]

Just using tele as an example shorter cooldown and reduced range would let me tele sector to sector with dl keep ramp for several sectors in a row even trash with Colo or a bomber. It’s a different use case

[modest warren]

Even better, there should be multiple ranges for tele simultaneously. Cool down will be proportional to distance traveled

It'd be pretty easy to work this out

That would allow interesting ways of playing

[fluid quiver]

For sure another solution but I think dynamic costs can be tricky to balance. Certainly possible

[modest warren]

And regarding split paths for modules, or should I say branching tech trees, that would have a lot more implications during combat.

So rather than on the fly, it should be possible to switch within YS

There's Mass and Batt, Laser and DL, Dart and RL etc.

Omega and Regen

Certain module combinations make sense

[fluid quiver]

Delta and omega rocket

[modest warren]

Another good one

[fluid quiver]

But I don’t wanna see less mods. Yes it would have made sense long ago but now it would feel kinda silly to combine them just to have tech trees

[modest warren]

True. New functionality on the other hand, would make more sense

Such as the Tele suggestion

[fluid quiver]

Might be neat to be able to increase decrease the radius of leap, veng, and destiny for the opposite effect to its damage. For example in drs veng and leap do way more damage at some point Han you need. I know leap can sometimes not be in range of everything because you can’t land in the middle of the sector. I’d probably trade away some damage for an increase effect range. But I want the mod to still be leap, work exactly the same and not need to be researched from scratch

[modest warren]

Good idea

Could also be increased range, with closer the enemy is to the impact point, the more damage is dealt.

[primal fox]

Just do like all big games a championship of Hades Star

With each corpo battle with many challenges

[oak gulch]

all big games?
A championship makes no sense due to disparity in tech level between corps and getting enough corps to matchmake is already a significant issue.
Someone shouldnt just auto win because they are the highest level

[primal fox]

? Depends of the challenge my friend

And you talk about matchmaking but there is no need of it for a championship

If we do 3 tiers

For exemple

Challenge can be challenge like we got for the event rn such as collecting as much possible credits from planets and its count for the corpo

And if the module is a problem for you we just count only the fact that a player collect something

So it’s oblige all the members of a corpo to work together and be very active

Most of games in android and iOS got that systems since so long

A lot asked millions new features and we all know that Andrea can’t do everything in 1 year so for most of the stuff we will wait years

So simple stuff like this can be good to get at a start to respond to the complain of « we need more activity » and when new features will come that type of events can be re used because it’s one of the most famous system in the actual games like this in the market

So it’s not lost

All major games use simple tournament system such as : collecting resources , attack something to get points

For Hades we can do collecting credits - Hydro , doing RS gives points ect

[oak gulch]

well if you're not talking about a tournament, it is a good general idea to host more events.
I thought championship implied a hypercompetitive tournament that crowns a single winner above the rest - you know, like a champion.

[primal fox]

There is obvious a champion but in each tiers

[modest warren]

Events such as that have become very old and repetitive, not worth wasting time on.

If there should be events, then they need to be more unique or interesting, such as special enemy types or map layouts.

[primal fox]

All games do this since 15 years and it still works lol

New events implying new development

Implying not anytime soon

If you want something for 2026 you will need some sacrifice

[modest warren]

I'm not interested in playing all games of 15 years. There is either something different and refreshing, or stagnation.

Waiting is fine by me, if there is progress.

[primal fox]

Even new games that are famous nowadays use that systems lol

[modest warren]

And they get the flak for it.

[primal fox]

They get massive money yes

And are tons of times more played than Hades yes

[modest warren]

For people with money to waste, yes.

[primal fox]

Being different is important I agree but hey understand this : these types of games got an army of dev behind and they don’t do anything new that what I said

So you think that 1 guy can do much more ?

For sure he can but he will need tons of times

I prefer to get a little than nothing

[modest warren]

The core principle of Hades is being refreshing and different than most. I believe whatever comes out, should have that in its essence.

[primal fox]

You can’t compare Hades and others lol

Hades system is the opposite of everything

[modest warren]

Then there's no point in comparing with others.

[primal fox]

It’s not about different or refreshing

Hades is just built differently

That all

Anyway I understand your point

But that imply to wait a lot of times

And a lot are thinking about a lot of stuff such as EVE ect

But they forget that Hades is primarily a mobile game

[quasi orbit]

We already have a tournament about collecting RS points. And it is a horrible, mind numbing grindfest

And the only cooperative aspect of it is having psychos in your corp who don't get tired of 6 hour long drs sessions on their weekend

[primal fox]

We can just adjust the system

What I talk about when I said this is

We can just use these systems that are already present

To do something new

And interesting

By tweaking a little

Compare to wait new complete features

That need to be dev + tested ect

So will take long time to come

[quasi orbit]

Current RS event can't be salvaged by simple number tweaking. It needs to be fully reworked

It's core requires solo grinding, and the competitive nature of the leaderboard will shut down any attempt to reduce the amount of grinding

[quasi orbit]

My fix suggestion is to turn RS event into a 2 day long PvE WS (of course, not as slow).
Instead of 6 hour HS work shifts, you get a big star system with extractable relic-like thigs, impossible-to-fully-clear tier amounts of cerberus ships, and the point system from rs. And those points go into the leaderboard, so you'll have to cooperate with your corporation to minmax everything, including relic-like things. And those relic-like things must be valid targets for art boost, and that art boost should be stackable from multiple players, so this event won't be about just shooting.
This will be much better than what we have now. Something actually interesting and unique to look forward to every month. But it might never get implemented due to being too similar to green stars

[oak gulch]

I dont know a single game that does exactly a corp championship type event , except maybe coc iirc?
If you are implying a objective list like the completist - once or twice it will be fun, then it gets boring.
If you want a system like the corp red star event - its play more, to get less rewards each month and repetitve and its just horrible.

I think the upcoming corp star PvE and the current white star with team pvp should be focused on if we are looking to enhance the multiplayer experience.

[oak gulch]

definetly much better than what we have now, omg is the red star event horrible.

#RemoveRedStarEvent

[median trout]

I think we should be able to create our own events in the game. Like subway, have it your way. The harder you make it for yourself the higher the reward.

Or you can choose between events created by others.

[oak gulch]

you know, player made events are actually things that could be great to the extent of the game. Unfortunately, all modes have this hydrogen restriction, rules restriction, complete deletion of player to player interaction. If the new corp star mode provides say a more sandbox experience, then maybe it would be possible

[median trout]

Have It Your Way
🎷

[primal fox]

Ark of wars , March of nations , marsaction litteraly all games that earn millions per month lol

[safe nacelle]

Ok mom

[surreal nest]

you know what, you're right after all, continue to produce ideas (some good, some less good) without restriction or objectives

[oak gulch]

never heard of these names

I look at classics like osrs, eve, and I look at new stuff like every TGA nomination

will search them up tho ig

[primal fox]

they are on the top of games in terms of revenue

around 1M per month

[fluid quiver]

They are also pay to win garbage

[primal fox]

ofc lol

but the market is full of that

hades is probably the unique games like them with no pay to win stuff

[fluid quiver]

But that’s besides the point. I understand the tournament aspect you are on about

[oak gulch]

what is this? apple store charts?

sounds more like google play

[primal fox]

no sensortower

[oak gulch]

yeah I look it up still dont find anything

[fluid quiver]

Osrs has similar tournaments every so often where normal players have absolutely zero chance to win and only the best of the best of the best can actually compete. But that’s also a much larger game

[oak gulch]

osrs does have a 100 diff game modes lol

[fluid quiver]

I was specifically talking about deadman/ leagues and such

[oak gulch]

I dont think they have anything too big that is also clan wise tho

like osrs and eve and hs have a difference in that osrs puts a much less necesssssittty on clans, as playing completely solo doesn't hurt much

[fluid quiver]

Nothing rewards fro the clan but clans definitely participate and help each other. Many of these you’d simply lose instantly if you try to play solo. My point was simply that most games have tournaments even if they are structured differently

[oak gulch]

Most games I cant but say its stretching it

I mean, tournaments in general is very common

stuff where teams participate, not individuals, and also get rewarded team-wide, specifically doesnt even exist afaik

[primal fox]

we can also add simple stuff such as help building time

for exemple you got at the right a pop up

if your team mate click it

its reduice for like 10 min

[fluid quiver]

It does for sure but much more rare. Iv played 2 games long ago that the only reward was corp wide. Everyone got a new armor or something. Was zero individual rewards

[primal fox]

and this reduce can depends of the team level

ect

[oak gulch]

Im not against that for sure events like that can help

a tournament specifically, between corps, i just think theres better things to do than that

[primal fox]

problem is not what to do but its what andrea can do in 1 year

because if we listen everyone , everyone want crazy stuff

[fluid quiver]

I suppose it depends on the player. I would love a tournament for Ws with locked teams to see who truly is the best. No continuously but a few times a year would be solid

[primal fox]

that crazy stuff take year to dev if he is solo

and need to be tested ect

i'am pretty sure there is simple stuff that he can implement at the same time he work on big one

[oak gulch]

yes, small changes like seasonal effects to WS maps

one month the maps are smaller

the other month its ultra massive

then theres twenty p10s

then there are no planets for a week

and its all easy to do using already available resources

[fluid quiver]

Wanna see more cerb and cerb variety in WS alone with map layout

[primal fox]

there is alot of stuff that can be done now to wait the big one

[fluid quiver]

Cerb bases in p5 so you gotta actually fight for them a little

[oak gulch]

same thing with rs - switch it up. Add different enemy line-ups. Add a weekly challenge drs map that you have to clear that is massive.

Existing resources - turned into hours and hours of content

oh yeah cerb bases, add cerb bases to some rs maybe

maybe allow a mode where rs7 players can fight carriers

[fluid quiver]

Player submitted maps for challenges 🙏

[oak gulch]

people just vote and push for QOL or free rewards and Im ngl it feels like nobody can settle on what actually should be added in terms of content

[fluid quiver]

Because we all want different things

[oak gulch]

thats why I think with content, the dev should take initiative, add a module or two per a few months

like with cerb drone

nobody asked for it

but its here

and people are having fun

[fluid quiver]

I want new mods but we can’t be forced to start over very time. This game is simply too long to start prints from scratch every time

[safe nacelle]

100% there needs to be a compromise

And I dislike the Cerberus drone compromise of altering bp requirements down modestly

[fluid quiver]

I’d rather them come in needing 100k to max still but getting the prints we wanted before the mod was made. Maybe even if only up to a max amount like 50k

[safe nacelle]

i couldnt agree more https://discord.com/channels/255083954036670464/1374781752068800592

[quasi orbit]

Imho, the current PvE design has little room for unique or interesting player-created challenges even if you ban mbatt

[crude pumice]

Racing maps 🙌

[unkempt ingot]

Same for weapon nerf or buffs. Cod does not wait on no man.. using your favorite weapon bam nerfed gotta change it 😂

Helldivers did the same nerfed a bunch of weapons, everyone left. Then they made changes again. Gained a lot of players back. Not all and obviously these are different games all in all

[elder pulsar]

squidhy only mode whenn

[brittle wren]

corporate war mode when

it'd be so funny to beat a single corp three WS in a row

trust

[surreal nest]

We have more and more "mega-corporations", corpos linked (one being the "school" one, another the "casual" one, etc...)
Can devs add a way to put that into the game also ?
For example, being able to join another corpo from another one directly, without having to search through all of them ?

[oak gulch]

I think he's talking about tags or officializing alliances

and tbh

I dont want alliances to officialize

in game

like no problem with a 100 corp conglomerate, but when you make an in game system officialize that it becomes different

regardless, corps all around these days are scavenging. The real issue is newbies don't even know how to use chat it seems most of the time. Very few have discord. Little to none stay after first few days. Its not a corp issue or an issue to find the right corp

[plain grove]

Mechanically there is no difference between having a highest bps rate on new mods or having a lower cap.

Mining and transport miss already set a precedent for different scales.

However maybe bps for capped mods could be converted into 0.1 of a bps for the lowest uncapped mod in that mod group.

IE, if you have teleport at 100k and emp at 99k, then 10 teleport bps get converted into 0.1 EMP bps

[safe nacelle]

That would be better than nothing, but would aggressively benefit only the longest time players

[safe nacelle]

I think starting new mods at 50% of the prior bp collection for that level~ with that system you described on top would be a pretty solid implementation

[safe nacelle]

this part about adding complexity to the game is spot on, I am really excited to see where some of these new ideas go

[unkempt ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/hype-party-gif-23560775

[oak gulch]

I find this hard to understand. I think whether or not the game gets more complex or simple, the focus should be about qol and content updates.
Say if you were to add 20 different new modules, it makes the game more fun and also more complex.
But theres also a way to overcomplicate things beyond necessity, and being complex doesnt necessarily mean fun, for any of the base.
Simillarly, I dont see why anyone at all would necessarily hate a game system for being 'simple' or minimalistic. Theres great examples of "simplicity" or "minimalism", just look at something like minecraft ( edit: chess ) , the base is simple but the experience is fun and complex.

[long gust]

The Minecraft base mechanics are simple but still lets you overcomplicate it to insanity.

I can mine manually if I want, or spend days searching up the perfect ironfarm as example.

[fluid quiver]

Doesn’t Minecraft have like several hundred block types all with unique properties? Anything but simple

[elder pulsar]

the mechanics are simple

until its not

[fluid quiver]

Except it’s not. Simple means easy to use and explain. Dozens let alone hundreds of game elements that all have completely different use cases is not simple. Mine craft was a terrible example. Chess would be more appropriate. Only a few pieces that each have a few ways to move. Or perhaps go would be better since all pieces do exactly the same thing and complexity arises solely from player skill and understanding of tactics

[elder pulsar]

indeed it is a better example

[oak gulch]

chess is a better example, Minecraft has too many different.... 'sides' of the game. Speaking purely in terms of building, you can make massive megastructures that look beautiful and great from just a few base blocks. Theres hundreds of blocks, but most of those are the same block with a different color and its very easy to understand.

[safe nacelle]

I think we are all losing sight of the fact that nobody cares about analogies

For Hades, combat and game systems should be easy to understand and difficult to master. I think the game does this well right now. Modules are generally straightforward, but interactions between modules can get complicated, which provides a very fun and engaging type of complexity.

[fluid quiver]

Could you explain that using an analogy?

[safe nacelle]

I could

[fluid quiver]

I agree complexity arising from simple base mechanics is fun and interesting I just wish we had more actually useful things to mix in. So many mods seem to have no uses in any star type and even more that don’t really synergize with anything

[safe nacelle]

But more importantly, the blog post refers to implementation of new star types as deeper features. Anything that is interpreted beyond that as a "deeper feature" is purely speculative. We'll have to wait and see what ends up being added.

[fluid quiver]

I really hope we don’t have to wait and see until it’s implemented. Player beta testing as we got in the past would be nice. So many possibilities but it will need a lot of fine tuning and as we know this game has a habit of putting out content and not balancing for years after so being able to get a head of it will go quite a long way

[deft phoenix]

Minecraft is not simple, nor complex - it is the level of complexity past the basics that the player makes it. It is a sandbox game at heart.
HS is not a sandbox & cannot be a sandbox.
Comparing HS to MC is like trying to compare a blueberry to a vegetable (to use an analogy upon thy analogy); a blueberry is not a vegetable, & whilst there are negligible variations between varieties of blueberries - they are negligible; most would still refer to any blueberry, as only “a blueberry”.
A blueberry is not a vegetable. If HS is a blueberry then MC is a vegetable (not a fruit) - a vegetable can be one of many things; using the word “vegetable” is considered vague. In MC content, there is too much diversity between playstyles for everything to be labelled as just “vegetable” (MC) - a significant proportion of people who enjoy redstone content shall not appreciate building content, & vice versa - although some like both lettuce & cabbage; very few like every vegetable.
But you either like a blueberry, or you don’t.

I mean sure, some people say they don’t like any vegetables…

[flat shadow]

Retired Veteran here 😔

First of, You should address the mess here☝️

Each person should been able to post ONLY 1 sugestion!
Players vote on them using emojis.
There should be possibility to "create thread" when all can discuss pros/cons ass well as add their idea of improvement about that specific proposal.

This would prevent 1 500 spam msg.
Also showing the most hot ideas worth attention...depending on emoji numbers and messeges in those treads.

Second, You wrote
" the game cannot really afford more PvP modes, because of matchmaking and player population sizes"

Did the player population in PVP and overral drop after introducing DN?🫤
We was mentioning that BLS need rebalancing! For Years.
Read opinions in Google play store for instance🙂‍↕️

Enforced, radical, drastic DN changes are not a Ballance We asked for.
SOLUTION - monthly/weakly polls.
What weapon is most OP. Which is weakest. What sup mods need to be changed?

Adding few points of dmg. Reducing CDs/cost/range by few % till players get satisfy with that module, stop complaining and move to next one that need the most attention.

Third. I feel like You forced out part of HS population by pushing on Us Yours, specific style of playing.
When early on HS was all about creativity and venturing into unknown😔
Building different fleet and creating new aprochess...some less or more effective...that heavenly depend on player skill/style.
How many bs1 RS 10 pilots soloing planet You see in current game version?
This highly inefective-yet so chelenging aspect of game We miss.

Just a few thoughts.
I like the overall switch in decision making.
I know that there still is a bunch of veteran players watching this app, still hoping for positive change.
@lethal jolt ☝️

From former GP member that U visit back in a day....decade ago🙂‍↕️

[deft phoenix]

This is not entirely proposals; quite a large portion of this is discussion - we ought to discuss before we create threads for a suggestion because suggestions go in the “suggestions” bit of this server & then get mentioned here.
We need to discuss not only individual suggestions, but also big, overarching themes & ideas, as well as provide feedback to what Andreas has said. Neither of these are suggestions.

Also some people have more than ONLY one idea.

This is somewhat ironic considering you have talked about MULTIPLE popular & good points - some of which cannot be considered “suggestions”.

[deft phoenix]

Also (people have said this previously), old HS still had metas. Both times & things have changed since we ventured into the Dark Nebula, but the amount a creativity did not change - the art changed.
Old HS meta stuff: (all star types) Time Warp, Sanctuary, Salvage, Passive (Regenerating) Shield etc.

Delta Shield in WS

We’re already 1,500 points in to address anything about the mess here anyways…

[safe nacelle]

This is a discussion channel, not #1206751668344197191 , there is no voting intended

[oak gulch]

I was just saying the game can be both easy to understand and also complex and intricate in its system and I think we can agree on that.
Dont know what you mean by "nobody cares about analogies", Im not using analogies, its examples of other games and references to other games, especially mmos like eve, lagrange, etc have been one of the most frequent feedbacks confirmed by the dev.

[safe nacelle]

im referring to the preceding convo you came into that was kinda irrelevant

[modest warren]

Yet it all runs counter to what was promised, for there to be diversity and no metas.

Instead we have Solitude for DRS and very few usable shields. I'd like to use something like Impulse Shield for DRS, I liked using it at the beginning in just RS. But I can't if I'm to get a stable supply of high bonus arts.

So these are some of the things that need changing

[modest warren]

I agree with some things here. Some modules like Dispatch had a use in RS.

Now, they're completely obsolete for anything other than WS, which defeats the point of creativity and diversity. This was not a change we wanted, we wanted its hydro usage balanced.

By allowing Dispatch into RSs again, we can allow for some interesting situations that are currently not possible.

Make Miners and Transports more able in active combat participation. Make it a choice instead of a forced change. There will be more interesting ways of doing things.

And honestly, HS has the potential of becoming a sandbox if we are given the customization tools the developer(s) had announced as a consideration, before ultimately canceling.

The player base here is creative and capable of aiding the game's current situation a lot. That should not be underestimated.

[fluid quiver]

Dispatch in drs would be so neat. Clearing the last few stragglers and not having to drive out. Not a real time save but would be very fun

[modest warren]

Exactly

I used to feel a lot of passion of the different possibilities that could arise from different features and discoveries.

I would like for that to be reintroduced.

Take Motion Shield for example. It's not usable for anything other than DRS.

In BLS, I just need to bond it for the last few seconds of Vengeance and the opponent will be helpless.

In WS, it's a lost cause.

We should allow for more interesting interactions. Such as:

• Completely being disabled by EMP.
• Being able to go through Barrier (against which Bond will be counter).
• Being less effective instead of complete shutdown under Suspend

This would make it more feasible to work with in all stars and depending on the situation, an interesting choice.

[elder pulsar]

-# mirror buff wen :(

[modest warren]

For that, I'd like increased range for the mirror backlash. Might even be usable in WS against CR meta

[elder pulsar]

range increase sure

but what about the pathetic shield strength (in all stars) and stupid cd in rs

[modest warren]

They need adjustments too. But that's easier

[fluid quiver]

Iv been running motion recently in bls and it’s actually incredibly good but it’s gotta be played well. I have been winning or at least taking second in most of my matches with it and I know at least 2 other people with my same build that are doing incredibly well with it too. I agree many mods needs some help but honestly mirror is in a decent spot. Wish it had some WS uses but I’m content playing it in bls and drs. Certainly other mods need significantly more help first

[modest warren]

The ones that I come across tend to fall in the final circle. It's a nice option for DRS but it definitely needs WS use if I'm going to spend time grinding Blue L10+

Pulse is also useless in WS, despite the high ceiling for access

[fluid quiver]

That’s totally fair. The center is rough but not unwinnable for me. In think motion is WS would be a great addition but currently just too much barrier and bond stalling. Making motion immune to them in some way or another has been suggested but I think that’s a cop out for better balancing in general

[fluid quiver]

And they hated him for he spoke the truth

[modest warren]

Lol

[surreal musk]

I know at least a couple of guys who would disagree strongly with that 🙂

[modest warren]

Frankly, everything has a use. But when it's niche to the point something else can get it done quicker and better, it is bordering on uselessness.

Pulse needs a range boost in WS to matter more. It can be useful for breaking Blast Fortresses after a Leap/Tele insertion but high level WS usually doesn't work that way as many teams rely on quick movement and area denial

[oak gulch]

do yall know the financial concept of oppurtunity cost? YES, modules like delta rocket, fortify, emp etc have USES, BUT it comes at the COST of not using a module like bond/barrier/vengeance/destiny in your LIMITED module slots.

same with RS

[modest warren]

Delta Needs to be faster. Heck, add the speeding up mechanic for both it and RocketDrone in RS too. It's not fun otherwise

[long gust]

if we talk about projectiles, the Mass Battery has to be mentioned too. If you want the Delta rocket to be more useful (faster, stronger), wont it make the MassB meta more popular? Having more strong rockets sounds coll, but these will be used and abused against you too.
PvE is a sifferent case, but I rather start changes there with some weapon mod changes

[vague swallow]

missile boat need to be a valid strategy

[quasi orbit]

Proper PvE balance requires a nerf to solitude. Highly doubt that developers are willing to enrage a big chunk of the playerbase again

[brittle wren]

realistic military naval strategy

W

where is my missile spam gameplay

[vague swallow]

there's a need for a passive combat module buff dmg of projectiles and drone

[oak gulch]

fr all rockets and consumables alike need to have a much shorter cooldown

[vague swallow]

Getting more than 2 rl bs in drs is a disadvantage because of soli

And soli provide such a good dmg it's hard to not use it

[fluid quiver]

A single rl ship in drs is quite good. I imagine on a team each player could run a rl ship and they could clear but it might be tough because of ghosts.

[oak gulch]

another issue with multiplayer DRS where everyone gets to bring only one ship

[edgy anchor]

Exactly my thoughts on a potential MMO gamemode for HS.

[modest warren]

This ties in exploration and speed, two things that I like. It'd be brilliant

[lavish turtle]

didn't realize eve also did that. There have been several other games with global territories that gave bonuses for holding it.

[unkempt ingot]

I was thinking about the "future" of the game and if we eventually see more rs lvls or more upgrades stuff that costs us more personal credits.. I was thinking an easy way to progress faster but not actually easy we could see difficulty tiers some how.. example:
this only effects the player selecting difficulty and does not change others gameplay unless in diplo
Rookie (default)
• Yellow Stars behave like Yellow
• Red Stars behave like Red
• Dark Red behave like Dark Red
• BLS is bls
• This is the current game state

Vetern (x% increase on drs/bls reward)
• Yellow Stars use dark red health/damage values (portals spawn of ints)
• Red Stars use Dark Red Star values
• Dark Red Stars use Enhanced DRS values (scaled up)
• BLS uses Dark red values

Legacy/Hardcore (x% increase on ys,drs,bls reward)
• Yellow → Dark Red behavior (portals of ghost and ints spawn or more on timer or set actions/aka mining, shipments, relay)
• Red → High-tier Dark Red in medium
• Dark Red → “Overcharged” Dark Red (Colossus with shields and stuff)
• Bls uses Dark red in medium

This does not include corp game modes
Ws not included

Add a station or an "invasion" button to ys complete it and you unlock next difficulty or "cerb tier" 😂😂

But again this is just a mobile game

I guess this would only need to be a thing if rs levels and module levels increase higher due to it being so hard at the end difficulty. Was thinking if rs12 members could clear Legacy drs rn. But I doubt it

[quasi orbit]

Look how beautiful tech window looks, if you remove all the bloat 🤩

Time is the most valuable thing a human can have, so saving new players from accidentally upgrading laser would improve their experience in the game drastically.
I think that module cleanup should be the 2nd major change brought with 2026.1, alongside the corporation star, to allow further growth of the game

[quasi orbit]

This would also require a progression redesign.
Mass battery, regenerating shield and solitude will teach new players from the very beginning what red stars are about, so they won't be forced to learn a new playstyle, when unlocking dark red stars.
The low density of battleship modules before level 6 red stars will encourage new players to focus on strengthening their economy, so they could reach level 13 red stars and beyond in record time

[opaque steppe]

Where is destiny?

[quasi orbit]

Inside the collapse zone in bls

[long gust]

I dont use it but saw that it can work in DRS too

[elder pulsar]

cries in jack of all trades

[quasi orbit]

Jack of all trades, master of dying to barrier

[elder pulsar]

not if they use barrier on a bomber of all things

[quasi orbit]

I wish more poeple would be like that

Bls bombers should do 10k neutralization damage in a 110AU range

[elder pulsar]

you wouldnt believe how many kills ive gotten because of stupid turtlers using barrier

[elder pulsar]

everyone dies

[quasi orbit]

Turtles are great. Especially ones that don't even activate their alpha shield

[elder pulsar]

i bet at least half just tp to mid, put down a couple crt and leave

[plain grove]

I'm not giving up WAMP with my RL but otherwise I think I'm basically synced with your chart

well, my CRT is 1, but that's because triangular(N) million credits to get to level N whereas most other modules are cheap to get to level 13.

[quasi orbit]

Yeah, WAMP is fairly decent, but I'm too lazy to edit that chart

[unkempt ingot]

That's why I typed the difficulty idea.. not everyone can handle or wants a bls bomber rocket like that.. obviously 110au for neutralize damage is high. I'd say keep it the same but do crazy damage on Legacy 😂

[crude pumice]

You have yet to see the light I see 😔

[unkempt ingot]

Example then for bls reward bs6 500k for legacy is 1m reward, vetern idk 750k lmao

But vetern or legacy you'd loose ship if you die to combat so

[safe nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[waxen birch]

I like this view, but the mods should be between the lines not on them 😄

[plain grove]

ah, the reason it was done that is that the lines extend to the icon, to show which it is, but I guess it should work if I extend the lines between the icons

[fluid quiver]

Check out the ones caprican made

[prisma spindle]

**BluntMuffin **

[plain grove]

It also generates these animations for extra flourish

[waxen birch]

beautiful

[prisma spindle]

**Science **

[safe nacelle]

Ah yes, blunt scores.
What.

[fluid quiver]

It’s your level x average level of that mod. Chart 7 is for only WS usable mods

Chart 6 is all mods

[unkempt ingot]

Have to focus on certain mods anyway with only 2 research slots

I have a bunch of combat 12 well ya know 6 maybe

[prisma spindle]

**Idk **

[cunning iron]

Hmm

[safe nacelle]

my brother is struggling

[fluid quiver]

You need to have given the bot your tech

[safe nacelle]

use the update command

[fluid quiver]

Click the bot name and add the app

[fluid quiver]

Only after youv granted it access

[safe nacelle]

i think if they already used the chart command it has access

but i dont remember the best, it was a little convoluted

[fluid quiver]

I believe the bot isn’t actually on this server so you either need to be in a server with the bot or have installed it personally to your discord

He’s been working out the kinks. Updated tech is a good place to start

[prisma spindle]

**Science **

[safe nacelle]

chart 2 looks clean

[fluid quiver]

Each chart displays tech differently. Chart 2 is tech levels

Chart 1 is time spent on research. Chart 3 and 4 are pre dn mm scores. Chart 5 I haven’t used. Chart 6 and 7 were made for me by cap to explore a new mm score idea

[prisma spindle]

**Idk **

[cunning iron]

Wait how do i add my tech

[fluid quiver]

Either import it from compendium using /import or use /update and go through that menu

[prisma spindle]

**Nova **

[cunning iron]

%connect

[fluid quiver]

I’m not sure that works here

[cunning iron]

%connect

:(‎

[fluid quiver]

Hso doesn’t support user created bots

[cunning iron]

Where would it work

[fluid quiver]

Any server with the compendium bot which is most Corp servers.

If you can’t find a Corp with the bot can either join my server or probably easier to just input using /update

[elder pulsar]

or make your own

and invite the bot

[prisma spindle]

**Idk **

[cunning iron]

Yippe

[proven wasp]

Guys please don't spam the chat with these charts. I really don't want to need to disable application commands

[unkempt ingot]

This is road map. They want this table instead of research we have now 🤔😅

Skill tree for research 😂

[zealous adder]

Right when this is supposed to be roadmap update discussions.

[proven totem]

Is any date range for update?

[unkempt ingot]

Quantum star is looking like it will release by the end of the year

[elder pulsar]

we dont know when
only that its this year

[fluid quiver]

Most recent post said “still on track” for years end but anything would happen. I’d rather it take longer and be better than sped through and be all buggy

[plain grove]

Ah the duke nuke forever approach

[primal crow]

Any chance we can rebalance the weapons?

[elder pulsar]

doubt there is

-# prove me wrong pls

[primal crow]

I do find myself plying a whole lot less now.
Late game progress is measured in years…
I keep trying new mod combinations just to spice it up but MBatt is still the only weapon worth using for almost everything

[fluid quiver]

“Mass battery is the only weapon worth using…” that’s disingenuous at best. Ever game mode has other weapons that shine. I think the reason we see mass so prevalent is because most of the player base won’t level another weapon for a single mode. Barrage, dl and rl are amazing in bls, rl and cr are the kings of ws. Dl, and rl are quite good in drs. Behind mass but still hold their own. Then of course we have pulse for drs and bls

[primal crow]

I’m casually using RL for BLS
As for RS, MBatt is king currently. I am upgrading DL right now but at level 6, it’s not ready to leave the house.

My lasers are atrophied 😁

[proven totem]

Any update soon?

[unkempt ingot]

https://discord.com/channels/255083954036670464/1499481308970221578

Still giving development updates yes

But the game update no not until hmmmmm maybe September 😂