Bring Back WS Rewards

[dull nexus]

White Stars are inherently time consuming, tedious, and require a lot of effort and strategizing for both parties. While I absolutely love this, there is minimal reward for the effort that is put in. Sure, the corp gets an art bonus %, but most top corps are open and allow the entire community to utilize their bonus (thanks BSO! 🫡). If you are in a smaller corp, there is little incentive to try too hard in a WS as you can reap the major benefit of a win elsewhere.

Let’s bring back WS rewards. Back in HS, WS rewards were my primary motivation for trying extra hard to eke out a win. I understand there used to be the issue of loss farm corps, so what if we limited the rewards to only the winner? If the loser gets nothing, then loss farms wouldn’t benefit from this change.

Proposal:
The participants in the winning team receive an X% boost to their shipment value for X days.

(Thanks Mr. Meowgi for the idea)

This would not only encourage continued gameplay from the winners, but possibly even entice some to buy a hydrogen pack to truly maximize their WS rewards (😉 Andreas).

A 50% increase to shipment value for 5 days wouldn’t be super game changing, and would be tied to your current progression level.

An addition to the above could be that rewards are halved or taken away if facing an underdog team (I.e clear mismatch).

I didn’t want to make the rewards so crazy that they were game changing, or that the losing team would feel like they missed out on a huge reward. But it would still be an incentive and well earned after 5 days of WS. And of course, I am open to changing the multiplier around based on the general take on this idea.

[long root]

Indeed, this mechanism should not be deleted in the first place. Nowadays, many people have no motivation to play, wasting energy and time, and finally getting nothing.

[long wadi]

I suggested something similar but with more interesting rewards

https://discord.com/channels/255083954036670464/1326657395082133504

A small amount of crystals as reward is another option, better than credits and hydro imo

And if the rewards are credits and hydro they should be related to each player level, not to the corp level, 900k credits are huge for a rss5 player and nothing for a rss11, it's better something like:
25-50% of each player credit cap rewards for winners
10-20% of each player credit cap rewards for losers

[crude hatch]

Perhaps there needs to be a link to activity level in the Star to secure rewards? Minimum relics collected, or damage dealt/absorbed? A way to deter against loss farming and no shows.

[lost dawn]

BRING BACK RED BAR

[weary garden]

Bring back all the bells and whistles

Or some other form of individual incentive to do regular WS.

[crude hatch]

While I agree, I think there should be similar for defensive ships. Damage dealt and damage absorbed both countries towards red bar, maybe?

[lost dawn]

me on my way to chuck an alpha 1 into 10 barriers to get 80000 damage absorbed

[carmine cape]

I share the sentiment that getting rid of rewards completely was too much.

I can't however get behind the proposal to tie individual rewards to corp level. It will only kill any hope for low to medium corps to build themselves a team; everyone will flock to bigger, already established corps to maximize their earnings.

[finite imp]

Yurmy 🤤

Let 6 leap 15s land on you with alpha

[lost dawn]

Maximum profit

[hybrid creek]

Upvoted! I think better incentives, like what is being suggested here, is a step in the right direction to increase ws participation.

A) Individual rewards - The competitive ws players / community will play ws games regardless of individual rewards, but for the majority, these were a main motivation for playing. I know many ws players who stopped participating because they feel the effort to reward isn’t worth it anymore and I honestly don't blame them. If the devs and community can hash out what fair rewards looks like, it will be a W for the game.

B) Dedicated ws ships - We all have rs focused friends who would play ws if they didn't have to sacrifice their supports ships for the week. Let's remove this restriction so they can participate freely without feeling like they're being held back.

[dull nexus]

That’s a valid point. I included meowgi’s suggestion to the bottom of the post, which is to give the winning players a 50% increase to shipment value for 5 days (or some multiplier thereof).

This way the reward would be tied into the players current progression, would require them to play consistently for the next 5 days to reap said rewards, and won’t be too OP

[dull nexus]

I was hoping to keep this idea as simple as possible with minimal new mechanics / changes that would be difficult to implement.

I stayed away from using crystals as rewards as they may be counterintuitive for the devs, who rely on crystal purchases to continue further development of the game.

[dull nexus]

I do like the idea of keeping track of damage / statistics. Even if it doesn’t impact the reward, it’s just cool to see at the end of the match.

[carmine cape]

I like that much better, thanks!
Voted now

(although 50% seems way too busted 😆)

[carmine cape]

Hey ZZD 👋
To your point B, I've got this you might wanna vote for as well then
#1304407475428130869 message

Hope you're good these days 🙂

[potent crest]

Giving all to the winning team unfairly punishes perpetual losers who may not even have a skill issue, but have been wronged by the matchmaker. Unfortunately, fair matches are never a thing, mismatches can occur based on activity, level, tech and experience and the system declaring underdogs can also have flaws.

From what I heard, I think the system was removed due to the competitive economic pressure imposed on those who couldn't play WS, something that sounds ridiculous. Another reason was to prevent loss farmers, to improve the WS experience for WS players.. by literally removing the more important rewards from them, all sound unfair.

I think a proper solution is still difficult, to cover all factors, but a solution nevertheless that is not completely perfect but distinctively better could be implemented. A plain revert to individual rewards till we get one sounds better than neglecting WS players. But I guess we have an agenda where spending any significant amount of time and dedication on a game makes those players a minority of lifeless losers who shouldn't be catered to...

[dull nexus]

Very fair. I do agree that I’m not a fan of “punishing” the losing team, especially if they put up a good fight or are simply new and learning the ropes.

My solution, while not perfect, is to simply make the reward nice, but not too nice. Basically, it’d be the equivalent of a handshake and a pat on the back for the winning team (some C and H), and it wouldn’t be game changing.

This is also to help mitigate the definitive re-emergence of loss farm teams if the losing team were to get a reward. My priority is to ensure loss farming doesn’t become commonplace again.

So basically, non game changing mediocre prize to help push WS along.

[carmine cape]

Today everyone's a perpetual loser with no rewards anyway

[potent crest]

Just a minor suggestion, I think you'd at least get a couple more votes if you edited the corp level part and maybe replaced it with rs. I'd completely remove it

yeah, small rewards at least seems to be a fair compromise till maybe a proper update

[dull nexus]

Fair point! Edited

[normal spear]

We have more and more difficulties to motivate players for ws. Please bring back some form of personal incentive.

[potent crest]

I am noticing declining interest in ws all around

its extremely difficult for a player to find WS appealing and even more to stay motivated and not burn out

[chrome mauve]

Maybe if there were more live and active forms of white star instead of trying to include global players to try and participate in a corp over a week of potentially wasted time...
Which won't happen

[potent crest]

We like WS, the dev likes WS. Theres pros and cons, its the fundamental way the game is, if you dont like it, leave

Its like asking why a game like chess uses boards instead of cards because cards are less expensive and easier to carry 🤷‍♂️

[forest flax]

I've felt the ships should be unavailable. It can be stress full...er? And it should be inconvenient, but with proper reward system more will play.

[forest flax]

Good to hear I'm not alone there...

[normal spear]

Well the point is: if you play a ws, you have less ships for your other stuff. It’s a hindrance. It feels like a punishment. So people start to ask themselves: why should I do it? Somebody else can do it. I don’t get anything from it anyways.

[forest flax]

Yeah, I get you. Id like to see more playing WS again. Time machine is such a unique tool, can be pinpoint accurate, or wildly incorrect😆

[lucid creek]

in the olden days with significant rewards, we had people very motivated to sign up only to become unavailable when they were needed or resorting to long hops so they won't be pinged
they were very much available on payday though 😄

the lack of rewards virtually eliminated opportunistic lowlife from playing WS

[forest flax]

Truth! Maybe it's intentional? Maybe life just happened for 32 .5 hours, making it too difficult to check in, or move one roid over.
Similar last red event with like 8 min to go, corp was open and wow punting the last min sign ups seemed cruel. Almost.

People got some nerve. Of course, in this faceless realm...

[potent crest]

some miscreats cant ruin the experience for all. No matter how much someone likes a game-mode, theres a high chance they wont play it without rewards. If any mode should be rewardless, it should be bls - 90% forced to play for 10% who like it.

In my corp, most players are eager to play WS and only less than 10% if there was anyone at all skips out because they dont like it. I dont get how I would get a flood of disinterested leechers if they added back the rewards. Even if I did, I dont see how its hard to filter people

[potent crest]

youre a part of dumpster fire, you dont get a say, sorry

DF is actually crap, im ngl, I saw yall WS against me twice. I thought your chat would have funny ppl who joined df for the meme but its actually full of drama lamas and ppl who couldnt get into anywhere better usually for a bad reaso

[forest flax]

No I'm not🤣...twice now. (Performs smellFi) What guys I'm deodorized ?

[forest flax]

Tell us, how does one access an opponents chat in WS?

[potent crest]

after the ws like a gentleman

[forest flax]

Guffaws

[potent crest]

I swear, even if you guys had 6 more battleships you would've lost

[forest flax]

Stay on topic...

[potent crest]

youre the one diverting 🤷

[forest flax]

SS DFs member list and point me out then.

[potent crest]

btw, yes, the smell from df is too strong 🤣

[forest flax]

Yours is weak, like your game...

[potent crest]

bluestarboogie or golden

idr who you were

[forest flax]

Not me

[potent crest]

i think blsboogie

nah, bls boogie probs

[forest flax]

Nopes my socks is on me feets

[forest flax]

Go away Golden

[potent crest]

man idr exactly

but im like 96% sure

[forest flax]

Nobody cares your opinion...

[forest flax]

Best compliment that one will ever get.

[potent crest]

pffts, idk. the dev implemented some changes suggested by me before. Coincidence maybe? idk but maybe I can slot in another feature I don know nothin at all, i just find the suggestions channel funny

[forest flax]

Shut up already meathead

[forest flax]

Proof or it's pure fiction.

[potent crest]

idr anymore, there was like a bug with ship visuals for one thing

[potent crest]

now seriously, whats your main?

[forest flax]

Let's see the implementation of your ideas 💡...Ahh you don't recall , impressive.

Go away Golden

[potent crest]

tbf mhga has been here for 7 years only to get bullied by the dev at best

[forest flax]

Go away

[potent crest]

bro you keep saying, whats this mean?

go -

[forest flax]

Means go the f*ck away

[potent crest]

man cant even -

well bad news, I aint gonna go in ages

[lucid creek]

who is cerulean marine

[potent crest]

chatting on suggestions i like bumps them up more

[forest flax]

Leave me out yer mowf

[potent crest]

whether or not i talk nonsense 🤣

[potent crest]

now wtfdym

[forest flax]

Me.

[lucid creek]

doxxed

[potent crest]

man wth you two talking about, can yall like speak in english?

three question marks in a three person chat 😭

[forest flax]

It's miscreants. And yes one or more miscreants CAN and has ruined things for all. (Gestures towards the now empty GC button)
Pappa has made strides in elimination of Ban Dodgers funzees

English much?

[inner spruce]

🧦

[forest flax]

🤣

[potent crest]

man even walter is here

I cant escape the smell of the dumpster fire

[forest flax]

Go talk your smack to some junior high kids who "might" be scurred.

[cloud bay]

truly ws content

[forest flax]

All apologies. Typically I remain reserved. Won't happen again.🫡

[cloud bay]

lol i dont really mind

definitely not charismaticleo 😂

[forest flax]

Of course in my humble opinion, I wasn't the one trash mouthing anyone, and completely believe there's no place for it here, or ban dodger Alts stirring up mud should be where Pappa turn his attention to. To just insult a bystander who had not said anything to in some time, on behalf other less spine filled character, is even more pathetic an attempt.

2 wrongs don't make a left...

Summin

[potent crest]

I'm not sure if you're from dumpster fire anymore.. but you definitely belong there**.**

[forest flax]

"the bird" ☝️

[chrome mauve]

?.. don't assume on sarcasm

There was something with something about white star and players not 'playing it properly'.

Making fresh corps and pwning noobs with extreme lvl and tech difference.

Rewards are clearly no answer to pvp modes unless the reward doesn't directly effect the main scope of the game.

Three paragraphs and now a point,
Establishing corps
after {set requirement here} corp gets established and can now participate in "corp" stuff, like rs event, white star something and 'rewards' (doubtfully since the previous paragraph).

[alpine temple]

Remember of 30h rule mismatch

The Underdog team will definitely get fucked. But, by getting one relic granted them extra +50 exp (as for now)

[graceful storm]

Also bring back some crystal rewards for WS leaderboards.

It doesn't have to be much crystal, as I currently have no incentive to wait inside corp for WS to end and have it count towards my WS participation, especially since I already have my medals.

There needs to be clear incentive for people to actually want to win and do their best, instead of calling it a day.

[potent crest]

... english please 🤷

[forest flax]

The Olde Way with three colored bars that added up to a payout was good except vs kill hogs

Which I guess is permissible from teammates

❓

[alpine temple]

It might be because some corps just farm the red bar 😂
Thus the bar was removed

It needs to be changed of course if they want to reintroduce the bar

[potent crest]

the old bar didnt consider level so lower levels were punished without reason

the bar isnt that good of a thing

[chrome mauve]

Nein, mon cherie
Read betterer

[alpine temple]

Yeah, low level WS can't fill bar that fast

[potent crest]

nah, youre all over the place.

[forest flax]

But campers or no shows

[frozen smelt]

I mentioned the reward thing a long time ago. I even suggested the same thing of rewards only for the winning team.
I got shut down so fast and hard by responders.

[forest flax]

Players here can be brutal. Unfortunately.

[wooden olive]

Recently ran a couple ws again after a long break. Half the matches were still loss farmers. Do not bring back rewards before solving this problem for good

[late hedge]

I think “loss farms” are a symptom of tired game mechanics.
The only way to level a Corp is to play WS -> WS matchmaking is seemingly random and Corps can get very poor placements continuously so -> the Corp copes with this by adopting a loss farm mentality -> competitive teams get matched with farmers and wonder why.

I don’t think the problem is rewards, the problem is Corporate progression or stagnation based on an atrophied game mechanic.

An asinine comment is this:
instead of making a new game based on advanced BLS, finish your thoughts on HS Corporations.

[wooden olive]

Corp leveling IS rewards in the same way credits were and the same way ws win bonus in arts is. 100% of pvp should give zero incentive to play beyond being fun

[cyan plank]

Corp reward is indirect
There is a need of a direct incentive

[potent crest]

My last 10 matches were also ducking loss farmers. But if anything, that tells you that removing rewards is not the way, what the duck kind of logic is "keep this feature because it doesn't work"

"I BARELY PLAY WS AND I AM SO EXTREMELY GOOD AND BETTER AT PLAYING THAN YOU GUYS THAT I GET BORED FROM PLAYING LOSS FARMERS, SO ALL RESOURCES SHOULD BE DIVERTED TO SOLVING mY PROBLEM SO MUCH AS TO DISALLOW OTHERS FROM ENJOYING REWARDS AND KEEPING A USELESS CHANGE THAT DOEESNT EVEN WORK AT PREVENTING LOSS FARMING"

yall gotta firstly stop treating loss farmers as this profound problem that makes this game 1000% worse - loss farming exists in every game and there are only ways to minimize it..

[wooden olive]

But it has worked. The issue is rewards still exist. He didn’t go far enough

[potent crest]

so no rewards at all so you can finally enjoy your WS

just so you and friends can enjoy

[wooden olive]

Could use a shake up too but that’s another topic for another thread

[potent crest]

why dont we remove rewards from BLS

[wooden olive]

Ws is a limited game mode. You can’t scan for another if it gets ruined. Why should my team suffer with not being able to play because a loss farm team wants 40xp

[wooden olive]

Yes Iv made several suggestions to this effect

[potent crest]

90% play bls for the rewards, 10% play for fun

[wooden olive]

Zero reward pvp content

Well then that should tell you it’s a bad game mode

[potent crest]

well I thought you'd disagree

well if thats true, can you please divert your lobbying to that mode? thanks

[wooden olive]

Rs and ys should give rewards to be used in pvp. PvP itself should not give any rewards. However I also think pvp needs to have its own ships so as not to take away from rs and ys

[potent crest]

why dont we talk about removing rewards from drs and rs?

that you'll disagree with

[wooden olive]

I literally changed my name to make hades great again in response to bls and how terrible it is for the game. What more can I do?

[potent crest]

and why don't we remove rewards? because as fun as drs and rs is, nobody'd play it without rewards

[wooden olive]

Pvm is where game rewards should come from. PvP in general should only be rewarded by taking from another player and since we don’t do that and most people hate that idea I think no rewards is easier

[potent crest]

every game mode needs rewards to keep people motivated

otherwise, said game mode just dies

[wooden olive]

I play drs and ws for no rewards

Well my reward is playing. I actually find them enjoyable go figure

[potent crest]

thats really crazy, why dont you bring up examples and I bring up mine?

osrs, eve online, guild wars, wow, blah blah blah, every game ever which has both pve and pvp

[wooden olive]

Osrs is a perfect example

All their pvp content that rewards players for participating is absolute garbage

[potent crest]

https://tenor.com/view/see-mark-phillips-rdcworld1-what-did-i-tell-you-like-i-said-gif-26500859

[wooden olive]

You pvm for gear and money then suit up and go kill people in the wild if you want something pvp of decent value.

Nobody should get a participation trophy

[potent crest]

https://tenor.com/view/im-out-we-out-peace-out-disappear-i-aint-dealin-today-gif-17082019

[alpine temple]

Most MMO RPGs

grinding to get gears for PvP

[wooden olive]

Whatever reward y’all could possibly come up with would be better just given to everyone without it being connected to ws. Why do we wanna force people who don’t even wanna play to waste everyone else’s time?

[alpine temple]

Achievements should be enough

That's ~5k Crystals alone from there

[woven sierra]

Back to the original suggestion and there's an important observation to mention:

"...in. I understand there used to be the issue of loss farm corps, so...."

Kudos to the devs for at least trying something to mitigate the occurrence of loss farm matches, but those loss farmers are still there and are making the ws match very boring for people who want to actually play this game. Can we put another plan into action pls?

[forest flax]

We can drag them into their loss farm, and force them to play or ...surrender. 4 surrenders and it's time out bucko

Ys shuts down if ws activity is nil

No blue no red

Until you fulfill your WS designated orders. Warp in. Done. Go fight in progress...ys function returns

(without coffee that one happened)

[late hedge]

I still think it’s the game mechanics.
We just ran a “non-competitive” WS. We only had 8 players and folks played when they had time rather than our normal competitive where we have commanders and set alarms.

Is that considered a loss farm? Should have skipped this week because I couldn’t field a whole team?

[rare kelp]

100% agree. It's sad to see some players playing ws for rewards rather than enjoying competitive matches.

I believe that the best reward for competitive matches is trophies and honour.

What we don't need: Bring back WS rewards
What we need: Introduce ws tournaments & fix leaderboard, to allow those who truly enjoy ws to compete for the trophies and highest honours.

[potent crest]

every ducking game with pve has rewards for pvp. Almost every ducking game with pvp has loss farmers. Yall are dreaming. Absoulute dreaming, exxageratting the problem and proposing an unviable solution

[potent crest]

no it wont be better to just give it to everyone. For one thing, rewards serve as a sort of goal and mechanism to keep players attracte and nobodys forcing others to play a game they dislike. Again, RS and DRS have rewards, why dont you say the same? Every game mode in like every game has rewards, why dont you say the same there too?

[late hedge]

Perhaps the answer is a toggle…
Maybe you can toggle “Ranked WS”
That way serious teams can have their own brackets with other serious teams.
Rewards or no rewards, I don’t really give a shit because like Chaotic said above, loss farms are going to exist, it’s called grinding and we all have done it in all the other games we play. I just want us to have a conversation that moves this issue along and hopefully we get some actual solutions for the Devs.

Maybe Ranked WS is winner take all.
Add in Dark Ranked WS where the Corp exp is doubled

Hell, add in a new “Hyper WS” where the game is only 2 days long, relic generation is doubled and the game counts loaded relics as 1 and gated relics as 3

[rare kelp]

calling something unviable but don't provide reason doesn’t really work.
We play ws because we enjoy competitive matches, rather than rewards

[potent crest]

unviable = too many people are demotivated from WS, avid ws players are punished - there are players like me who dont play bls, rs, shipments anything except ws, where as I'd progress by a small amount even if I played rs and no other modes or bls and no other modes.

And at the end, where do the loss farmers go? theres still loss farmers but just no rewards. Loss farmers will never go man, every game has loss farmers, every game has rewards, removing rewards just to prevent lossfarming is stoopid

and hey, I'm a player whose played ws and focused on WS for more than 3 years now. Im in virtually the same spot as you, and trust me, I hate loss farmers and thats actually one of the reasons I want rewards! - motivation to play even if you get a boring match against lossfarmers or if you mismatch

[cloud bay]

so true

then some guy comes up and says "lets go no rewards so there will be no loss farms"!!!!

[potent crest]

and we already did that and they're too dumb to realize loss farmers will never go

[cloud bay]

i remember someone said "can you use currency to pay for groceries?" i died

[potent crest]

and btw, have we mentioned the corps that arent loss farming but just running casually or cant afford to coordinate highy? or dont have enough players simpply?

[potent crest]

as he said, theres a whole class of corps that put up easy matches but they arent lossfarming

[rare kelp]

not the answer to my question - why it's an 'unviable solution' and why are tournaments, trophies and honours not the motivation to play

[potent crest]

so you're saying why its better opposed to specifically trophies and honours?

[cloud bay]

people went from loss farming credits to loss farming the ws participation achievement for 1000 gems

[potent crest]

we already have trophies and honours - the elo system and the leaderboard and records

[cloud bay]

i would still do it 😂

[potent crest]

rewards just provide better motivation plain and simple

[cloud bay]

yeah

[potent crest]

the problem with trophies and tournaments is that you get punished for just being lower level

[cloud bay]

#1315586131865112586 message

[cloud bay]

that message

its in my post

[potent crest]

and tell me, what exactly dym by 'trophies' and how do you arrange a tournament and expect players to even show up for matchess?

[rare kelp]

leaderboard ranking ≠ trophies, not to mention it's not even the official leaderboard.

[rare kelp]

https://discord.com/channels/255083954036670464/1324181907902038037

[potent crest]

doesnt answer my question, you didnt address the problem of level disparity for one thing. For another, what about the other corps that dont get into the tournament. Secondly, not many players would be enticed for this over rewards. And the current elo system may not equal trophies or anything, but theres basically the same effect - meaningless cosmetic prizes. Just btw, that "unviable solution" doesn't refer to you specifically just because I said it after your message.

[potent crest]

@woven radish

[woven radish]

this is different

[potent crest]

basically the same thing?

[woven radish]

I don't think so

[potent crest]

well ig theres a difference

the other emphasizes on other forms of reward

[woven radish]

bring back rewards vs applied bonus instead of relic bonus to other areas.

[potent crest]

but idr if this one emphasizes on credit rewards specifically

well ig the bonus is a bit more specific

you're probably right then

[rare kelp]

I think I have answered the question. Top tournaments like FIFA World Cup and UCL also have only 48 and 36 teams competing. I've never seen a team that doesn’t qualify complain about not participating—they work harder and improve themselves to earn spots next time.
(there are more than 1170 soccer clubs in Europe)

[potent crest]

dont compare hs to irl sports please, thank you

irl players actually get paid btw

they get paid big money

[rare kelp]

I know

[potent crest]

and if they dont qualify for FIFA or UCL, they have other tournaments

[wooden olive]

Actually having ranks like back in the day was nice. Even the current “leaderboard” doesn’t track anything anymore since the top corps are set in stone with the changing of how points are accumulated. The current ws wins for “winning” 4 matches a month is a joke. We need real ws events and trophies for sure. But zero participation shit. If you lose you get nothing.

[rare kelp]

but not the top tournaments

Which means not the highest honour

[potent crest]

the elo leaderboards? it tracks skill at least supposedly?

[wooden olive]

The in game one that is frozen in time from years ago

[potent crest]

yes, but there wont be any tournament or trophies for lower corps in HS and in real life, the players have actual cash rewards so your analogy doesnt work at all

[wooden olive]

Only the top .0001% of players playing sports ball get rewards wtf are you smoking?

[potent crest]

well does it matter when we have the elo leaderboards which is basically the same thing

and its technically official

[wooden olive]

Most people pick up a game and play for the fun on a weekend

[wooden olive]

Yes. Put it in game. Current leaderboard is mega broken

[rare kelp]

It's not. everything ig is official. Others are not

[potent crest]

but WS is so much less popular than real sports, it would die without active support and rewards and updates and can we at least agree that'd it be bad for ws to go dead?
can we compare online games to online games now?

[potent crest]

the API is official, so the dev officially did want the players to make an unofficial leaderboard

[wooden olive]

No we can’t agree on that. Better to have love and lost than ruin game time for those to come

[potent crest]

mind my grammer

[potent crest]

ruin? only for you which seems selfish/.

[rare kelp]

Well yeah. I really want dev put it in game

[wooden olive]

It’s not only for me. Iv had dozens of players quit ws specifically because loss farmer made it not worth playing

[potent crest]

let others enjoy the game even if it means a change will occur that you dont like if you're gonna quit anyways

[potent crest]

well what if WS is going to die and you wont have opponents period? then?

and I've had people leave because they burnt out

[wooden olive]

Sad but better than loss farmers killing it

[potent crest]

and you know? rewards would actully help players prevail through boring matches

[wooden olive]

They wouldn’t

[potent crest]

you're overemphasizing loss farmers, when every ducking game has loss farmers and goes on without issues

[wooden olive]

Every other game doesn’t last 5 fucking days without the ability to leave and try again!

[potent crest]

give actual responses or walk off

[potent crest]

theres little difference I see

[wooden olive]

There is little you see. We noticed

But anyway ima be late for work if I don’t start getting ready. Maybe more later

[potent crest]

10 WS matches with 6 of them having loss farmers VS getting 6 loss famers out of every 10 matches for 10 weeks

[potent crest]

yall are the ones posting the unpopular opinions

[woven radish]

I'm pretty sure there is a statistical method to identify loss farms. It was one of the things I was planning to do with enhanced api access.

[late hedge]

Again, toggle “Ranked WS” and the issue of mass loss farming should go away

[wooden olive]

Ah yes the same way that worked with bls smurfs

[forest flax]

But sometimes my daily requires I put on some under developed gear, am I smurfing, or just greedy?

Usually wear my Finest Sunday Threads

[wooden olive]

I agree the objectives encouraging Smurf’s should be removed

[forest flax]

That really doesn't bother me anymore. Lvl 10 dart on a lvl 3 Bs, heck yeah 👍. I choose not to wear panties in public contests. Let them be pretty.

(private...anything goes)

[lucid sinew]

To be fair what trophies do we get ?

[lucid sinew]

How does loss farming effect ur scores

[woven radish]

It's not really about the score for me. We can have our corp all hyped up to play an intense battle, then we meet a no-show gaming the system. It's not fun.

[lucid sinew]

Right

I can relate

[potent crest]

and thats why I want rewards

[lucid sinew]

I support
My economic issues can be solved by 100k every ws

[potent crest]

i will finally reach rs9 😭 🤣

Ive been rs8 for literal years now
-# ( I refuse to play modes other than ws)

[lucid sinew]

Trye

[forest flax]

Get Gud.

DF would've catapulted your rs scanner and Econ to boot.

[lucid sinew]

tf

[forest flax]

Just promoting fellow corp...

[potent crest]

idk who ur replying to, but i have them blocked

[lucid sinew]

Incredible

[lucid sinew]

Are yall that desperate

[forest flax]

Nah, C knows what I'm really saying, 😜

[forest flax]

Typically best, to just let dogs lie...you know what I'm sayin?

No matter what someone else says.

[chrome mauve]

Sure..

Or a better way to think about it
all players present need to earn the rewards
which shouldn't happen if they aren't present, but since white star takes a week not everyone can be present whether they deserve 'reward' or not whilst the beginning point was
#1331950553978372147 message
white star not being active gameplay but planned gameplay.
The problem being that rewards being given to planned gameplay is that its usually poorly done.
In hade star rewards are progression, having double rewards means one of them has to be a bonus given to both sides for participating.

• And another solution to fresh corps or smurf players, that useless xp bar given to each player that gives them a level, could specify how much or what type of reward each player gets.

Congratulations I managed to be on the subjects points without your help.

[potent crest]

yeah you A: dont know how to talk and B: make a terrible argument out of the very little that I understood

and wth is this planned gameplay VS active gameplay. Its an unnecessary clasifiction you made up and has no impact on play

[potent crest]

People are supposed to still be able to progress if they ignore one or two game modes. I dont like anything but WS, imagine how far I'd get if they gave even corp wide rewards...

Not the leading example im going with but still...

[bronze bay]

At least make it an event ???

[potent crest]

no, no stop vouching for no rewards

and stop acting like loss farmers are a major threat to the games existence

and stop bringing up irl sports as examples

[cloud bay]

finally someone said it

[forest flax]

Said what? "It?"

[cloud bay]

that's the dumbest thing you can say when you try to start an argument with someone. i support everything chaotic said above.

[forest flax]

🤣

Whose starting an argument?

No real reason to try apparently.

[rare kelp]

Let me ask you this then - why do you play/don't like anything but ws?
For competition or rewards?

[potent crest]

the rest of the game is just bad

Ive found better

steam store front page, all better

real games

I know its incomprehensible for HS players who never played but low quality mobile games

And oh yes, I dont need rewards atm to play. I just play and play it because I enjoy it. But it doesnt mean rewards wouldnt better my experience and I already outlined a 100 reasons why it would improve the gaming

[eager cliff]

I enjoy this game as a whole except bls and part of ws

Bls is just broken, need an actual elo rating or something

And aprt of ws I don't really enjoy is the effort-reward is fucked

Wdym spending 3-4d taking 4-6h sleeps and then the reward is just 5d of +3bp, and the corp xp is meaningless for smaller corps

It feels horrible
Maybe the true ws reward is the friends we made with our corp along the ws

[rare kelp]

So you're not playing WS for rewards, but because you genuinely enjoy it. Good. But you also claimed that we need rewards as the motivation to play. Doesn't that seem a bit contradictory?

If you really enjoy WS for what it is, then rewards should be optional — a nice bonus, but not something you need to play. The fun and challenges of the game should be the main reason to play, not the rewards.

You said the rest of the game is just bad. So, by that logic, it sounds like WS is the only part of the game worth playing. But that’s exactly why it should be a 100% competitive game mode instead of being compromised by reward systems that encourages loss farmers and participation abuse.

[potent crest]

man I dont even wanna argue, your argument just doesn't work, youre being a scare crow for one thing

[cloud bay]

isn't it similar to liking your job with low salary compared to liking your job with high salary?

enjoy playing ws is something but it gives even more motivation when rewards is included

[potent crest]

I think yall should forfeit all your salary and like give it away to a charity or even better work for free

[cloud bay]

lol i dont even work yet

but i agree with most things that chaotic says

[potent crest]

if jeremy works

[cloud bay]

its a game, people cant just bring their work in

[potent crest]

he should

well im tryna be funny

[cloud bay]

then they say "can ingame currency buy groceries?" 😭

maybe not hades star but in other games, they sure do

[potent crest]

yeah...

well the more ridiculous shit I say

the more this thread gets bumped

[cloud bay]

maybe dont

but we need ws rewards back

i am thinking of a easy solution

what about +50% bonus for 1 week for anyone that win a white star? corps will not have bonus, but players in white stars do

[chrome mauve]

cough

[cloud bay]

that way, people in big corps dont have to carry everyone else

while big corps spend days in ws, other people get bonus for free

which i think is unfair

[potent crest]

Hmmm, I dont like red stars

[potent crest]

on second thought, maybe that AND shipment bonus

[rare kelp]

Calling my argument 'just doesn't work' and labeling me a scarecrow, without offering any reason or pointing out where I’m wrong, ironically makes your argument the one that doesn’t work😂

[rare kelp]

"Stop bringing up irl sports as examples"
"I think yall should forfeit all your salary and like give it away to a charity or even better work for free", "isn't it similar to liking your job with low salary compared to liking your job with high salary?"
Nice double standard

[eager cliff]

Go back on topic or else

[late hedge]

I say bring back the rewards and offer the toggle for “Ranked WS”

[rare kelp]

1. If you really enjoy WS, why do you still need "more motivation to play"?(I mean, the rewards should be optional — a nice bonus, but not something you need to play)

2. why are tournaments, trophies and honours not the motivation to play? I mean, why do you insist on material rewards? (Plus, if WS offers rewards, wouldn't it encourage people to corp hopping to big corps for easy rewards? Not to mention it could also make loss farming even worse)

3. If you really "need WS rewards back," doesn’t that actually mean you’re actually playing WS more for the rewards rather than the game itself?😂

[cloud bay]

i've already answered my reasons above. if that doesnt satisfy you, nothing else can

[rare kelp]

Cool, and I already said exactly why those reasons don’t make sense.

[late hedge]

1. I genuinely play WS for the fun of it. I don’t need the rewards personally, I do it for the Corp and my teammates.

2. The only “trophy” is winning 4 WS in a month. Quite frankly I don’t care about it.
   Corp hopping and loss farms are a thing… deal with it. Folks hop corps to play with us when we run our “ultra competitive” WS, why is that wrong?

3. As stated above, by multiple people, it is “nice” thing to have, I don’t require it. But what HS does need, is to flesh out the Corp portion of the game. It is under developed.

[cloud bay]

i've realized what you were trying to say now. yes, it may be unreasonable why someone who enjoys playing ws need rewards. also, i think there should be more rewards for the winners. if you don't want loss farmers, then give them nothing... just give the winners more stuff

[rare kelp]

Just give winners more stuff - encourage corp hopping

for easy rewards

[cloud bay]

why corp hopping?

[rare kelp]

.

[cloud bay]

then isn't it better than the current situation?

i'd rather allow someone to live at bigger corps forever, than someone who stay in my corp but jumps out and jumps in every single day for artifact bonus.

and that is why i also want the rewards to be given to ws players only, instead of throwing rewards to everyone in the corp

[late hedge]

I don’t feel that “no rewards” for losers is a good thing. It will discourage lower Corps from playing and advancing.
The up side is that they would disband the old Corp and join an established one.
But discouraging them from playing is no way to advance the game itself

[cloud bay]

it is so hard to try to compromise between people who support no rewards for losers, and people who support some rewards for losers

[rare kelp]

No rewards for losers - corp hopping
Rewards for losers - loss farming

[cloud bay]

there jeremy said it

[late hedge]

Listen, it’s a mechanism of the game and people are going to do it anyway.
Is a WS team with only 7 players considered loss farming?

[cloud bay]

there will always be negative people who bring up the downsides of something to argue

nothing can be perfect

[rare kelp]

It's a mechanism???
why would corp hopping be intended????

[late hedge]

Really?
It’s rather obvious. You Corp hop to get the higher Art %, donate to that Corp Flag and bounce back to yours.
Additionally, as I stated above, we have folks join us for our ultra competitive WS and people jump in to help with the RS event

[rare kelp]

I wonder where the remaining three players are?
You scan with 3 dead accounts? Then yes. It's definitely considered loss farming

[cloud bay]

lol its funny the argument is similar to how solitude is

[late hedge]

Also, if it’s really that bad, then petition the Dev to penalize the hopper, similar to how they fixed the flag cooldown issue

[late hedge]

No, the 3 remaining aren’t dead accounts. They are active in my corp but busy in life and didn’t jump in

[cloud bay]

we can't fix corp hopping, but we can fix loss farming

[rare kelp]

loss farming

🤣

didn't jump in = 0 effort = loss farming

[late hedge]

You can fix it. Have a mechanism where the hopper does not receive the Corp bonus for at least 72 hours

[late hedge]

And if we win?

Still loss farming

🤷‍♂️

[cloud bay]

well its not my job to tell how to prevent loss farming... if using the ws bar didnt work, maybe try something else. do something that makes sure losers arent loss farming and they get their rewards

[late hedge]

Report the team for loss farming. That’s why we have moderators

[cloud bay]

the problem in the HS version was about what you guys said above. 7 accounts played their best but 3 accounts didnt jump in. 3 accounts received the rewards along with the 7 others

then create a different ws bar for different people

the higher the rs, the more difficult the bar is

you pass the bar, you get small rewards.

people might exploit it somehow, but its better than a complete loss farm

[rare kelp]

loss farming but some of you guys fight hard
The question is why you scan with 3 inactive account(I mean, what's the difference between dead account and inactive account that didn't jump in any ships)

[cloud bay]

i just said above the solution

and about the difference of alts and inactive accounts maybe related to ws

i knew some people who created their alt, didnt research any modules, made it until they got the ws scanner and abandon the alt

and it will drag the ws score down for the entire team

[late hedge]

We are running “Casual” (i.e. loss farming) where the expectation is that Real Life takes precedence

[cloud bay]

if jeremy was talking about a different kind of dead account then sorry about that

[cloud bay]

but for this, i guess we can report and devs probably search through the ip and find out the main account lol

[late hedge]

That is true, seen it before as well. But similar to the Diplo Station, it should switch to “not WS Ready” after x amount of days

[cloud bay]

i am guessing that is something we are trying to push through right?

we dont have that mechanism yet

[late hedge]

I can start a new thread

[cloud bay]

i mean we already have one

its not through yet

lemme find it

[potent crest]

your crazy. With rewards, it would improve my experience and more directly affect my teammates motivation

the only ppl who follow this line of thinking happen to be the median hs players

• play games on the toilet
• play only HS and trashy mobile games
• Massive agenda but no knowledge on the game industry
• "HS IS THE BEST GAME EVER OMG I NEVER SEEN ANYTHING ALIKE"

and lots of ego of course

lots and lots of ego

[rare kelp]

I'm sure you are one of the biggest trolls on HSO🤣

[potent crest]

I dont troll anyone, everyone trolls me and only in very minute circumstances I throw some of that back

perhaps I did as to you

again, the more I generate conversation in this thread, the more it gets bumped.. Its no secret.

I find it funny that you make an immaterial reply yet complain about me doing the sam,e

either ways, please-

[forest flax]

Disbanding a corp, it doesn't go away. It lingers for eons. In Silence.

[forest flax]

That is a complete falsehood! Untrue. It's unbelievable that you would even text something that preposterous and not think it not be shot down in flames soon enough.😃

[forest flax]

Is loss farming a ToS violation? I don't believe so, how to prove 6 of 10 all didn't need emergency surgery? Or a flat tire? To fill the roster and hope 6 might pull off an upset, or hope the other team had to fill rosters with the dead as well?

[late hedge]

That’s what I’m saying, it’s a mechanism not a violation. We just need to suck it up and realize “it is what it is” especially since the Dev removed the other WS options

[forest flax]

Oh, I misunderstood. Somebody mentioned report to mods....😆

[woven radish]

Not difficult to require a threshold. People will game it, but at least show up.

[forest flax]

Many a camper I've seen...

[chrome mauve]

Well the threshold could be an amount a player can earn and an amount of effort they require to earn it and potentially more.

Like bluestar or objectives that give more based on lvl.
But that won't work by itself,
The players lvl on their profile 1-999 could be the reward pool choosing device and the corp lvl being the multiplier to said device.

Activity in the star could be a percentage of total between the 2 earned

200k creds, 200bp or 100 crystal x lvl 10 corp -> 200k creds, 200bp or 100 x 1.5x = 300k creds, 300bp or 150 crystal

[potent crest]

give corps

the option

to gain 40xp

at the cost of disallowing one of their slots to scan for 5-7 days

[alpine temple]

Most people plays WS as an investment back in pre-dn (you spent credit for ships and if its destroyed in WS via whatever, it's gone forever unless Sanctuary was equipped)

[potent crest]

No, ur wrong, im right

[cloud bay]

what

dont they do it in BLS where they get 90% of rewards back

kinda similar to disbanding ships

[alpine temple]

Not sure about BLS but yeah, losing in BLS back then also lost the ship

[cloud bay]

i mean i am wondering how is it an investment in WS

[alpine temple]

Because back then, WS gives players credit/hydro after the game

Well, they uses hydro to uses mods and move on there so

[cloud bay]

i have been in the old HS for years... i know

how is it an investment when you dont use sanc?

[alpine temple]

that's what some old pre-dn players said to me

Well... Their own thing

[late hedge]

Old HS WS was an investment opportunity. If you won (and didn’t die) you receive credits based on RS Scanner Level.
If you lost, you receive back far less credits but if you played smart you could still break even or ahead.
Back then, team coordination was paramount and risky plays that paid off were huge.
Now everyone has auto-sanc so suicide runs are common and not very effective.
But back to rewards, the old system made sense because movement and mod activation was based on hydro.
Now that we don’t need hydro except for TS moves, the rewards payouts need to be Corporate centered. I mean, WS is a Team Sport

[alpine temple]

TS also not consume hydro on WS.

As for now

The only reward in current WS is the achievement haha

[potent crest]

we're #10

finally

[late hedge]

On the Dev-Fix list?

[potent crest]

no, but they should pay heed to us sooner or later

[forest flax]

Opinions

Maybe ridding the game of asshat Alts and negative Nancy's be the next Log of Change🤔

[wooden olive]

lol no alts cuts player pop by half. Probably not a great idea

[woven radish]

I recall watching a video about this happening in runescape. But theirs was not alts, but bots.

[wooden olive]

Well that’s a bit different. Bots in osrs actually keep the Econ stable for real players. But I understand what you are saying.

Also RuneScape is the largest mmo I don’t think losing the bots or alts would crash the game. But like half the people I know playing hades seem to run multiple accounts.

[forest flax]

Multiple accounts are not the problem. The troublemakers Alts though, are.

[chrome mauve]

Multiple accounts would only be an issue if the person running them is.
Some alts (~40%) are probably afk or just around but not participating in more than redstar or bluestar

[lucid sinew]

Friendly fire will not be tolerated

[lucid sinew]

Like bro y not remove the prize given by bls then ?
Won't it be the same as a ws

[lucid sinew]

The current rewards already allow people to hop btw corps
For more bps

Can u name one mode of the game other than ws that is not a rewarded mode?

[lucid sinew]

And what is your issue with loss farming ?
Does it effect your progression

[lucid sinew]

Friendly fire will not be tolerated

[lucid sinew]

To be fair
Mods using hydro should be brought back in ws

[potent crest]

cope harder

I aint seen a single alt

yeah absoulutely ducking no

I can verify more than like two thirds of the players just by myself, and Im not even that popular

its so funny, you like three or four players here are just being selfish crybabies while all it does is help me promote the thread

[potent crest]

we hit 90, almost increasing by a tier!

[potent crest]

hes just selfish, dont worry

[cloud bay]

i hate how people try their best to ruin everyone rewards in WS because loss farmers ruin their fun trying to destroy everyone on the other side

[alpine temple]

It destroy the mood of some dedicated players yea

[woven radish]

Still better than not showing up

[cloud bay]

i am saying that

tryhard players want to fight so if enemies doesnt show up, its boring

so they want to delete rewards for losers so that loss farmers doesnt show up

[woven radish]

I have a solution to that. ELO style ratings and matching. loss farms will settle to the bottom and rewards can be terrible at the bottom.

[lucid sinew]

U think that would be implemented?

[woven radish]

I think gaming the system would be difficult at that point. It's the reason I asked for the api stuff months ago, so I could perfect that style of scoring.

even as it is though, how many loss farms are on the current elo near the top. There are some smurfs which under a system that matches by elo would make impossible, they would simply match stronger elo players.

[rigid coral]

Top 10 Elo Rankings

​

[1]🔺ELO:1692 Likapa
[2]🔻ELO:1673 **Auscorp **
[3]🔺ELO:1604 Mercury Sunset
[4]🔻ELO:1571 Ninth Planet
[5]🔺ELO:1570 Emergence
[6]🔺ELO:1564 **Hand Of NOD! **
[7]🔺ELO:1550 ДИВЕРСАНТЫ
[8]🔺ELO:1538 [Blue*Nation]
[9]🔺ELO:1533 Omega Alpha
[10]🔻ELO:1524 Повстанцы Хаоса

​

Rankings Snapshot as of <t:1744860611:F>
(Newer data may be available)

Based on 16997 Whitestar matches from 1494 Corporations · Apr 17, 2025, 3:41 AM

[woven radish]

The only issue I saw was people jumping corps and having a strong elo rating in new corps, so I had thought about scoring individuals and averaging it. However, if elo starts at 1200, rewards could not kick in until 1300

it would be something to work towards

elo also matters who you match. game the system somehow, and you don't gain very much fighting newbie corps. Lose to weaker opponents and you drop a bit. It could also be tweaked to not increase as much as the current system does.

[alpine temple]

I would like to see a mid tech high elo corp suddenly matched whale corp 😂

[woven radish]

you could game the system, win 5 in a row, then when you match high, you know why.

technically, most corps should theoretically end up with a 50/50 win/loss ratio

[alpine temple]

True

[lucid sinew]

To be fair we should either penalize corp jumping through debuffs

Or consider

That as a legal use case in alliances

[alpine temple]

That somehow would break the RS queue 😂

[woven radish]

I've felt that having to wait 1-4 hours for the buffs to kick in, would fix the issue.

even 30 minutes might fix it

[lucid sinew]

Lol

[lucid sinew]

Like right now we don't have any concrete corporation loyality fixes
We probably need to implement penalty for lousy corporation handling

[woven radish]

we've been incentivized to have mega corporations where everyone just joins whereever and does not need to put in effort

[potent crest]

incompatible with hs

[woven radish]

Only if you are stuck on gaming the current system

[potent crest]

no

it just doesnt work just because its cool tech like the guy suggesting blockchain implementation.

Where do I start?
WS teams arent permanent, players switch rosters all the time
Level disparity effects rating, effects rewards, unfairly punishes lower levels
What about slot 2 and loss farm teams?
It can still be gamed - i.e. smurfing
everyone should average a 50% WR, even if I beat legion with a team of rs1 players, I will lose the next match because the mm will find someone smarter or equally smart as me and I get the same amount of rewards overtime even if beating higher level corps and same for higher level corps getting easy wins from lower levels.

Im sure you have the perfect workarounds and some trade offs you'd be willing to accept. However, as long as there are trade offs, it'll be a preference issue more than a flat improvement is my point

[woven radish]

Yea, already accounted for all of that.

what I would like to see is no corp with 30 wins in a row and other corps with 30 losses in a row

the loss farms could all meet eachother for almost nothing or no rewards

and they would stop being matched with people who care about playing the game

I would describe it in detail, but then I get warned for going off topic

[potent crest]

30 is an exxageration and I think you should be able to score 5, 10, 15 wins in a row if you are skilled enough, or at least you deserve to

I dont think they crack down for off topic convo. Tangents lije these are basically why they turned this into a forum instead of a plain chaannel

[woven radish]

Is it? https://ws.tsl.rocks/corp/430376e86f786afe6d4201e70b5fd09f2cdd41ca6d81ee693737e3361c06a1f4/

why not have a skill based measurement and match people based on that? why should it be tech based? I've seen end game tech that cannot beat a bs2 team.

[potent crest]

if I'm being completely honest, I dont even have a problem with Likapa snatching 125 wins

they arent winning from like abuse, they have proven themself

[potent crest]

We match people based on tech, so the most skilled team gets rewarded. If you match people based on skill, tech gets rewarded

WS should be meritocracy not oligarchy

[woven radish]

you match people based on tech and never have a chance to test your skill against anything else.

[potent crest]

-# 'rewarded refers to victory in this context

[woven radish]

unskilled but high tech corps should be in a lower bracket. Maybe they never get good, but they deserve to have a chance.

[potent crest]

I dont see the problem with that

why would I want to match people from all different tech brackets?

[woven radish]

they're much better than you and can beat you with a team of bs2?

[potent crest]

unskilled but high tech corps should be in a lower bracket.

your proposition lets high tech corps prevail

[woven radish]

high tech corps prevail now

[potent crest]

no, high tech corps match other high tech corps so skill matters

[woven radish]

skill is not part of the equation

[potent crest]

in an elo system, everyone wins 50%

[potent crest]

skill is what determines the match if tech is constant

[woven radish]

tech isn't constant. it just ensures you match in a very specific bracket when you probably shouldn't.

[potent crest]

also, elo would be inflated for corps with high tech and deflated for those with low tech in an elo system

[woven radish]

why would it be?

[potent crest]

matchmaker tries to give both sides equal tech no?

[woven radish]

it's not very good at it. it doesn't take into account which techs are more important

so neko's laser turret matches against your mining mods and then some

[potent crest]

why? Isnt it natural that if you give a player level 1 mods, they will get destroyed by even a l10? and if you give the same player, higher level mods, they have a higher chance of winning?

[woven radish]

That isn't a given. I've seen the opposite happen

[potent crest]

it tries its best, its better than nothing

[woven radish]

elo based matching system would be better.

at least, you know why you are outmatched after winning 10 in a row

[potent crest]

wdym? higher level mods dont provide for a higher win rate in most cases?

if you cant agree with that I dont even know

[woven radish]

it also fixes the loss farmer problem

[woven radish]

They don't.

[potent crest]

crazy

Imma meme you

[woven radish]

take my corp. we have high mods, but not where we need it.

or we lake the skill with strategy

we probably shouldn't be matching top tier corps

but we do

[potent crest]

oh youre talking about all mods in general?

[woven radish]

due to tech

[woven radish]

Just as the matching system does

[potent crest]

Im saying - a battleship with level 10 massbatt beats one with level 1 mbatt

sure, there are minmax problems and the problem of unused mods in ws

[woven radish]

maybe the level 1 mass batt has more skill and uses their emp better

[potent crest]

I dont think its a massive factor however

and I still think the problems with the elo system is worse

[potent crest]

I am assuming same skill

[woven radish]

stop assuming that because it is never the case

[potent crest]

that is what would happen in an elo system

[woven radish]

even on my own team, I have people who would fire everything at the opponent gate and consider it a win.

[potent crest]

near same, ok grammer na*i

[woven radish]

They don't understand the counters

[potent crest]

Why are you mentioning this?..

[woven radish]

I'm trying to explain that a highly skilled low level team has the ability to beat an end game team with no skill.

[potent crest]

of course?....

[woven radish]

so why penalize them by only considering tech?

and why continue to match the high tech team with only other high tech teams where they cannot win

[potent crest]

how does considering tech, penalize them?

you think rewarding them is giving them a fair match?

[woven radish]

they will always lose due to a skill issue. I know of several corps that don't scan anymore because everything is a loss.

they should match within their skill bracket

regardless of tech

[potent crest]

we went over this

and not only here, I bet we had a solid conversation or two more

I dont remember tho

[woven radish]

If I explain it, I get a warning for going off topic

I don't understand it, but it is what it is

this server is sane now, so I shut up

I don't think many understand statistics

[potent crest]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-no-nope-gif-5413974953753901704

[woven radish]

I'm not sure how to impart years of knowledge and it's lengthy

[potent crest]

why are you bringing in the general competence of maths and statistics again?

bro why are you trying to be like this condescending redditor now

[woven radish]

And this is the off topic problem. Why do you not think it is related? I don't know how to explain it better.

[potent crest]

It is related

but its too broad to have an effect on our problem

[woven radish]

in your opinion

I have not had the chance to prove it

I need real data for that

[potent crest]

yeah nah not only are you confusing mate, Im gonna be honest, youre quite rude

I'll leave it at that

[woven radish]

I do feel you have been rude.

[potent crest]

alr then, apologies if I did

[woven radish]

"no, it won't work, I said so"

That is rude

[potent crest]

I never blatantly claimed the correctness of my claim...

[potent crest]

I provided a whole list of points following

[woven radish]

None of those points are relevant

compare it to an existing game that already implements these features

[potent crest]

maybe I appeared rude, maybe its my twisted sense of humor or maybe Im braindead

[woven radish]

show an example, not opinion

[rigid coral]

Top 10 Elo Rankings

​

[1]🔺ELO:1692 Likapa
[2]🔻ELO:1673 **Auscorp **
[3]🔺ELO:1604 Mercury Sunset
[4]🔻ELO:1571 Ninth Planet
[5]🔺ELO:1570 Emergence
[6]🔺ELO:1564 **Hand Of NOD! **
[7]🔺ELO:1550 ДИВЕРСАНТЫ
[8]🔺ELO:1538 [Blue*Nation]
[9]🔺ELO:1533 Omega Alpha
[10]🔻ELO:1524 Повстанцы Хаоса

​

Rankings Snapshot as of <t:1744911911:F>
(Newer data may be available)

Based on 17022 Whitestar matches from 1494 Corporations · Apr 17, 2025, 5:47 PM

[woven radish]

There is mine, all those corps should match eachother

they would settle up and down based on skill

[potent crest]

and idk how the points arent relevant

[woven radish]

I don't know how to explain it better but none of those are an issue

you could ask specific questions

If for example elo starts at 1200, and anyone with an elo rating below 1000 gets the lowest tier of rewards, then that would be where the loss farmers would end up.

[potent crest]

alr, what about ws players switching in and out?

[woven radish]

they would be incentivized to put in some effort

[woven radish]

not an issue, elo is attached to the players

so when bso fields their second team which is mid tech, no issues

though, the ones I played with had some nice skill

[potent crest]

hmmm

good fix I guess

theres a good list of other issues I have, I am not awfully interested in continuing however so farewell!

[woven radish]

Sorry to have offended. This is sort of what I do, I seek outliers and methods to fix them. It's how I write bots and other things.

[alpine temple]

You do needs more on tech levels than skills in higher WS tier 👀

Just saying, because getting bullied by Lv. 14 while having Lv. 12 is way hurt

[rigid coral]

Top 10 Elo Competitive Rankings

​

[1]🔻ELO:1846 **Auscorp **
[2]🔺ELO:1805 Likapa
[3]🔻ELO:1788 六大天神
[4]🔺ELO:1785 Слава Украине!
[5]🔺ELO:1757 Stargate Corp
[6]🔺ELO:1756 IX Легион
[7]🔻ELO:1748 BlackStar Order
[8]🔺ELO:1732 Blood Hounds
[9]🔺ELO:1732 Hinterm Mond
[10]🔺ELO:1730 **русь **

​

Rankings Snapshot as of <t:1744924512:F>
(Newer data may be available)

Based on 17022 Whitestar matches from 1494 Corporations · Apr 17, 2025, 9:21 PM

[potent crest]

not my point tho

[potent crest]

you know, before, we had the bar to maximize rewards and relics directly progressed corp level

now, we have flat loss XP, and it is worse and 40 free XP is no joke

and people used to act way more aggressively

in ws

[potent crest]

almost 100!

[potent crest]

Btw yall, Im scoring 11 wins in a row

[cloud bay]

cool

[lucid sinew]

Prime example (me)

[woven radish]

When I was in watchers on their voltron team, which was the highest tech or best players from several corporations, we had end game tech players who would run away from lower level opponents; easy targets. They completely lacked any sense of strategy and refused orders. Skill does not change just because you have higher tech, you also need to use the tech in a manor that is beneficial.

[lucid sinew]

True but bond 7 , barrier 10, destiny , and stuff sort limits the strategy a player like me can use

Severely if the player is activisg

[lucid sinew]

Ish

[woven radish]

I used to defeat bond 10 with my bond 5

[lucid sinew]

That needs to be closer in range tho

My bond is 2

Bruh

Or suppres

[woven radish]

I would impulse at them about 10 minutes before they would bond me, then bond them first. They had the choice of using teleport or bond to break it, but the cornerstone of their attack required forward movement and bond

[lucid sinew]

Good idea will try next time

Anyways gn

[potent crest]

Its sad we miss those tactics now

but then again, I like my WS not being a game of rts

[woven radish]

Same tactics still work. What do you mean miss?

2 weeks ago using this, I forced to leapers to go to the wrong asteroid

[potent crest]

well if your opponent knows what they are doing, they will be on field, watching and bond you before you bond them'

[potent crest]

well if your opponent knows what they are doing, they will be on field, watching and bond you before you bond them' <connection anomaly>

Im jus sayin like

oghs was different

and I kinda miss it all

[woven radish]

They would have to watch live. I got Auscorp with this one.

[potent crest]

perhaps it is doable

thanks for your insight

now we just need a few more votes to surpass to 8th place

come on guys we can do! their army of alts stand no chance

no way more than a dozen ppl actually support that suggestion, lets show them a dozen more!!!

link your corpmates! link your rs partners! link the random dude you met in another server! lets get to top 5!

-# ( JK )

[forest flax]

Aww... positivity?

They grow so fast ...

[alpine temple]

Time Warp

[forest flax]

The 5X event, did it swell in participants

Or bemoaning to "Bring back WS rewards" or a whole new way to create fervor

[alpine temple]

I am no sure

but having 5x win progression (when winning in event) or 2 wins progression (when losing in event) sounds like a good deal for me

[late hedge]

I still say bring back rewards.
Or maybe objectives with payouts.

[eager cliff]

No reward is a bad design, would u work for free

[cloud bay]

idk

[eager cliff]

Playing games is meant to be fun, receiving rewards is fun, they're not the same

[cloud bay]

so true

[potent crest]

alienturned is like cooking. Not in a good way, like burning down the whole kitchen as its his first attempt.

Every single online video game, you know and love, has reward systems. Rewards, connect a mode, to another, creating further motivation for players to play as a whole. Currently, WS is just another game of its own, and I dont get why that should be the case for the most distinguished game mode in HS

and you could probably even google search or ask ai

[late hedge]

Listen, I just want to progress the game and mid-late game is calculated in years.

I still tinker with Realm Grinder after almost 10 years and that solo developer updates his game almost twice a year and still has special events for every major holiday and season.

[woven radish]

There was a player before the update who only did white stars and only progressed based on the reward system. Might be something to consider enabling for people who only want the single game mode.

I also have a few in my corporation who do no redstars, no bluestars, barely yellow stars, but do show up religiously for whitestars.

[potent crest]

there is another - me

[late hedge]

Even in the beginning, I thought the Corp was the point of the game and WS was expected play mode which is why it was so different in terms of time dilation and damage output

[eager cliff]

but the current ws reward is flawed, why bother spending 5d effort just to receive something that's just a few clicks away

if u're the type of player do ws for its tactical planning/coordination with other corp members, rewarded or not, it doesn't really matter
but for the other type of players who want to receive something for their 5d sleeping a competitive sleep schedule, their effort is unfairly rewarded or the reward just feels insignificant

and maybe, with a reward, the ws should be more fun because now there's more drive for both team to strive for

[potent crest]

I mean, I personally couldnt even miss the 40-50% bonus on arts tbh

[woven radish]

It was removed due to farmers doing loss rewards, the bare minimum, or even staging fake damage. Addressing that is probably the main issue.

[bronze bay]

But if a corp was stronger or higher in numbers the weaker corp would try to join and message asking for peace then battle at the end.. usually attempting to tie but still get rewards

[woven radish]

There was a corp that would do this, and if you didn't agree, they would not show up. I think we had about 5 matches against them never showing up.

Also had a few corps try to hold hostages unless we agreed to something.

[potent crest]

a corp tried to scam us like this

fortunately, we caught on early

no self respect some of these guys

[cloud bay]

i dont know why you guys hated that but them not showing up is the most easy reward ever

and i love it

[late hedge]

Agreed. No shows weren’t bad at all. Almost felt like a vacation

[woven radish]

• No Real Win: Winning by default isn’t winning at all, it’s actually a letdown.
• No Challenge: We don’t play for freebies — we play to outsmart real opponents. Without them, there’s no strategy, no tactics, and no chance to improve.
• Wasted Time: We lock ships for five days and plan for nothing; total waste of effort.
• No Fun: It kills our momentum. without an opponent, there’s no fun, just empty space.

[forest flax]

Lol and dude actually said " no self respect some these guys"
It is alarming how prevalent that quote is these days. And OGHS was rife...GC in particular at its end.

Does social media cause this? Or was the problem underlying before grandma got a PC in the basement.

[rare kelp]

Just ignore him, bro. There's no point talking to someone who ruins others game experience while demanding more rewards

[woven radish]

I suppose the issue is that I don't care about the reward. I care about everything else.

The question is: How do we enable rewards again while removing the incentive of no-shows

[frozen smelt]

Only the winning team gets individual rewards. Only players that actively participate with the winning team get individual rewards. Participation can be determined by hydro delivered, relics returned, and damage to cerberus and opponent ships. Similar to the blue bar requirement in BLS.
I'm not advocating for a return of the team damage bar. Just a bar for each individual player. Incentivize actually participating.

[woven radish]

I'm good with that. But then they will be advocating for nobody attacking them.

[devout pond]

And everyone else

[lucid creek]

100 WS every week proves you wrong

[devout pond]

How many players are actually turning up vs farming the corp xp? WS matches are down a lot on last year and the first months after dn

[woven radish]

100?

[lucid creek]

"down a lot"? seems like wishful thinking unsupported by facts.

if you are a hater just move on. no point in staying.

it's 1.5 years now that DN is out. if you can't come to terms with it, you never will.

[devout pond]

I still play, just not WS

If people like WS then more power to them, I just don't see it

[lucid creek]

people play WS and enjoy it

it's been improved

[devout pond]

A lot of these are full of no shows or half teams, like the top public one which is two days in and has one BS killing cerbs

[lucid creek]

some of those are loss farms. but imagine if nothing changed, how many WS per week we would have now?

with the AD/DR meta and time warp eliminating casual teams

[devout pond]

Are the only two options do nothing and a lot of loss farms? No.
Any game mode will bring a new meta (unless you are telling me that there is no meta in WS now), but IMO what was here before was more fun and more vibrant, if a little stale and in need of some updates.

[eager cliff]

There's always a META by definition

[lucid creek]

it was more fun for YOU. but not for others that were excluded from competing because they couldn't watch the game all the time because of 2h teleport attacks and speedy kidnaps.

[devout pond]

Yeah, so dealing with those specific issues would have solved a lot of problems

[eager cliff]

With the reward being subjectively useless for none mega corps, actually playing ws is the only fun in ws

[lucid creek]

there you have it, those issues were dealt with in DN.

which is why it is an improvement.

[devout pond]

And the issue that people actually want to play it

[lucid creek]

the people YOU know that don't want to play DN WS because they don't know how and lost their precious meta tech levels

that's exactly what's the problem

no more AD/DR spam

[devout pond]

I would have got back up to speed with the new meta, that doesn't bother me.
You can see how much people want to play by the many full WS currently on display.

[lucid creek]

what a loss

just move on, it's best for everyone

[woven radish]

I used to try harder just so my corp mates would have better rewards. But then when mentioning that on this discord, I was accused of cheating which I take as a huge insult.

[wooden olive]

I did 95% of my og progress with only ws rewards and I’m still adamantly against bringing them back

[woven radish]

Elaborate, I would love to know more.

[wooden olive]

When I first started playing hades all I did was ws. I didn’t do shipments, I didn’t bls, and rarely did rs because I was able to make enough arts through trading. Most of the matches I played were against loss farmers so I started advocating for no rewards. Loss farmers have diminished with removal of credit rewards but because corp xp is still around we still some. This is why I support removal of xp rewards as well. Ws should give zero incentive to play besides enjoyment of the gameplay itself. Should also have its ships integrated to the station so you are not put out by playing

[woven radish]

Perhaps the issue is guaranteed rewards for something.

[wooden olive]

Indeed but even only having win rewards means loss farmers get rewarded when they face each other

[woven radish]

random loot box, but I'm not sure I would want that in this game.

[wooden olive]

No players should have the power to lock another team out from playing the game for a week

[woven radish]

Yea, but policing it...

[wooden olive]

No policing. Just remove all rewards. Problem solved

Why should my week of games with my friends be ruined because you don’t even wanna play the game?

[alpine temple]

Because majority of the players needs rewards to be intensifies themselves

[forest flax]

But you said " I still play, just not WS". How then are you perceiving the reality vs water-cooler gab?
(I should've been a lawyer)

[devout pond]

I have done a few, maybe 4 or 5

[eager cliff]

ws moderator then?

if the condition for loss farmer satisfied, they're not gonna receive anything

or we could go with the roman's way, make all ws public, and the higher the vote, the better the reward

[lucid creek]

it's hard to draw a clear line between loss farmers and earnest losers. you can set some minimum conditions but the loss farmers will be sure to make the bare minimum while earnest losers might not achieve it.

i have seen people jumping in 7 ships try to fight it out anyway, and loss farmers that briefly jump in 10 ships then jump out and get a bigger reward.

tldr i don't have an answer, hopefully someone else does and we can back them up with upvotes

[late hedge]

I’m losing track of why we care so much about loss farms.
I get it that you jumped ships in and “lock them up for a week” but does that really matter?
Also, I find it a little asinine to say that losers get no rewards. So for the Corp that set their timers, tried their damndest but lose by 1 relic, they get nothing. At least with the HS Battle Bar, the losing team could get something or at the very least “see” how they did.

[cloud bay]

i never really cared about them

all i cared pre-DN was that loss farmers allow me to win more credits

what i find annoying is that some people jumped in and say "but ws is meant for fun not for rewards" etc etc.

we literally had good rewards for both winners and losers, and now rewards are downgraded for both sides because some people decided to protest about the loss farmers

[woven radish]

They are the reason rewards were removed.

[cloud bay]

they are the reason 5 of my corpmates left game

because white star was the only thing they had fun with

[late hedge]

Is that what the dev said? That was the line of reasoning for removing rewards?

The easiest and correct answer would have been to establish a ranked WS button. You want a full pitched battle with another corp and duke it out, go Ranked.
Otherwise, the default WS would be open to all and in essence, casual. You may get matched with a loss farm team, who cares, it’s casual.

And the open WS could have reduced or no rewards

[wooden olive]

Because loss farmers would totally just not play ranked as evidenced by all the smurfs not playing ranked

How can y’all be so obtuse? Is it really that hard a concept to think people want to actually play the game?

[forest flax]

That's actually pretty good.

[forest flax]

How much time and or money would Andy need to change it to this idea. Cost matters. I'm not a developer. Barely a player.

[wooden olive]

Why change to that when it doesn’t address the issue at hand?

[forest flax]

Ok.

[late hedge]

Not a clue but BLS has the “option” to play Ranked or not. Add the radial to WS and then let Corps who selected it face each other

[forest flax]

Issue is bring back WS rewards unless I'm in wrong room

[wooden olive]

And how does an un/ranked address that?

[forest flax]

It states : ranked provides rewards. Casual does not.

[wooden olive]

I can read. How does that solve the issue?

What stops loss farmers from scanning ranked and still fucking people over?

[late hedge]

At this point, we are just shouting at the wall.
Make the whole game “no rewards” and let’s see how long the player base stays active

[wooden olive]

You are trying to make the game worse and expect people to stick around

[late hedge]

No, you guys crying about loss farms prevents us from having a conversation about improving the game

[forest flax]

Ok first. You can't fix players in a world filled with Alts. Now force a person to be accountable for their actions or inactions ...shi be right tgen

[wooden olive]

Crying about just wanting to play the game

You’d be pissed too of you wanted to do something and other people maliciously ruined it for you week after weeks for years straight

[forest flax]

All of DN is imo Andy attempting to cure the jerks from stealing arts, he went instanced , then griefers, he changed Ints...I mean come on! GC was murdered

[wooden olive]

I just wanna play the game.

[forest flax]

See on that we see eye to eye. Every major change has been to fix the player base.

And folks are sh*ts

Hard to fix sh*ts.

[forest flax]

Id play way more ws

At some point, We the Players have to be accountable for our own actions

[wooden olive]

I quit ws for a long time because loss farmers. Come back recently and half the matches still been loss farmers. Ban the fuckers imo but I know that’s not gonna happen so let’s take other measures to stop them

[forest flax]

Or ...Lack. I think it could be done.

My Alts....the ones I am now currently misbehaving with🤣 the in game store is different right? So they know whose got placeholders or Asshats

But. Just like GC, they reappear, different tag, angrier, and the cycle continues

(I jest, I've one placeholder Alt)

[late hedge]

Since DN, we play weekly WS and have only seen 1 loss farm.
I have been a part of a few WS where not all of our members showed up, so I guess by default, I’m now a loss farmer and should be banned? Even though we won with less people?

[forest flax]

Wasted energy punting them

I don't agree with that

[forest flax]

We rarely fill the roster

[late hedge]

Exactly. It’s a part of the game

[potent crest]

fair but selfish muffin

[forest flax]

Won't scan unless at least 8 commit

[forest flax]

Your right.

Real life can interfere with a 5 day campaign.

[late hedge]

Absolutely

[forest flax]

I'd rather they jump in and camp than not show

But I'm not in xharge

🤣

[alpine temple]

Having no Rewards on WS really filter out a lot of players. Higher bracket doesn't really affected that much by lost farm and if they found one via 30h rule, they just take it as a free bonus lmao

But lower bracket do get fucked by as they tends to meet a lot of lost farmers

[late hedge]

No rewards will filter most of it. But I can guarantee you will still have loss farms. The only difference is that they will only send the 5 or so ships out and treat it like a BLS

[wooden olive]

It’s super easy to understand. We just wanna play the game and not have our week stolen. If we face a loss farm can’t even play. That’s super fun

[alpine temple]

Haha

Genrich simulator

[wooden olive]

So how it is more fair that the people who wanna play can’t and the people who don’t wanna play can?

[alpine temple]

Never fair

[late hedge]

What if you treat it like poker?
You have to pay the cost of your BS to play. Winners get to keep and split the money

[alpine temple]

Reminds me of a game where the battle was so tense that sending ships to nova is very common

Just to prevent enemy to win

Personally, my best WS reward is when I got an awesome team to play weekly

[late hedge]

I’ve done that. Pre DN, leave your ship out there to prevent the enemy from collecting the last 2 relics

[alpine temple]

But now doing it feels forever

[late hedge]

Play til the buzzer. Never give up

[wooden olive]

I have suggested an entrance fee before it was hated by everyone. Yes I think if losers actually lost something it would solve the problem entirely. But how much? For a new player credits are tight. For an old player it’s nothing.

[alpine temple]

You want new players as the main focus

[wooden olive]

If that was true fix bls smurfing. Ws is a end game mode

[alpine temple]

They should make bls queue based on bship level

So, bs2 won't meet bs3

And so on

Would be hell for bs7 thought haha

[forest flax]

I always face folks in the 600 up level in blue stars....I love it.

But also not chasing tiara either

[late hedge]

To your point above, I understand that for new players, credits are super tight but if they are in a good Corp, they will do just fine. That was me in the beginning. I ignored BLS because I didn’t want to lose any credits (I still barely play it unless I am absolutely bored) but my main focus was always WS. I ran RS with 2 BS for the longest time because I couldn’t afford to run 3 and have one in WS. And I made sure to have some banked just in case I needed to replace one. Players will adapt to the game

[forest flax]

Like make it a Bounty or something, an investment group on Earth, want corp A to take down B

[late hedge]

But the payout in HS WS was amazing as a small fry

And my Corp had incentives for the new guys.
“If you can destroy those miners with Alpha Rocket, you get x Arts of your choice”

[forest flax]

My friend....blue money is part of your income now. It's free. Five minutes. Don't ignore free cred man

At no cost other than the time to fill your bar

[late hedge]

I know, but my Econ mods more than make up for the couple hundred credits. It’s a blip really

[forest flax]

Oh ok your higher up than id thought

My bad

[late hedge]

RS 9, only a few planets away from RS 10

[late hedge]

All good mate

[forest flax]

I'm halfway to ten

Still panic under Phoenix shield....lol

Red event will be fun

Probably under half way to rs10

[rare kelp]

"I never really cared about them"
because i am the loss farmer

[forest flax]

What are we looking at? A WS replay of ...

Oh ok 246

(need glasses)

But what if his corp is a husk? Five active players? It's hard to point the blame thrower not knowing the context. He went in Alone. There's that.

Drives me nuts mates sign up then no show, or late.

No control. We are powerless

Is what it is.

It looks loss farmy🤔

[cloud bay]

lol even before i was loss farmer

i dont care about them

i wanted credits

not fights that disrupted my study schedule

[forest flax]

Lol well there it is folks....🤣

[cloud bay]

also i didnt know jeremy was my opponent in my first loss farm lol

[rare kelp]

you are ruinning others game experiance just because you want rewards. And now you are asking for more rewards. Loss farmer

[forest flax]

Id wager one player with 9 mid Alts could play a wa

[cloud bay]

i cant argue with that

sorry for being loss farmer

[forest flax]

Much respect right there

Shows some people are still decent

[cloud bay]

well that is my first loss farm ever

if people hate it then i am not doing it again. i dont like to be hated for ruining others fun

putting aside the loss farm, back in the day i still liked others to do loss farming

mainly because my corp was busy and they wanted credits

[forest flax]

True. I've quietly hoped for a no show squad back in the day. But it were Greed, and Ego to put wins in the win column. I was still determined to grow my corp in spite of the asshat Alts filling it with lead.
That were many moons ago. It lay desolate, aging. I pop in time to time to clear the spiders, bird nests... yadda.

Nostalgia, that cruel Lass.

[cloud bay]

my corp died now... mainly because of how bad the initial DN release was

[forest flax]

Many took massive losses.

[cloud bay]

it was the last active vietnamese corp 😦

[forest flax]

Bummer man, I'm sorry.

[cloud bay]

now only a few scattered to different corps, most stayed in went inactive at home

[forest flax]

It was the smartest thing I've done.

Go to a place that was active.

[cloud bay]

i still have my alt as FO and my main wanders around 😂

[forest flax]

Lol same here.

[cloud bay]

drs at bso, rs event at sfa, white star at the heavy...

[forest flax]

Freelance can be fun too

[cloud bay]

true

[forest flax]

We could go on and on about rewards, we need fresh players

To this I have no answer

[cloud bay]

my corp was made for vietnamese only so its better to let it be

[forest flax]

Never know, it could be reborn

[cloud bay]

it was more than just any corp... it held on 80% of active vietnamese players at its peak

i mean it still does 😂

[forest flax]

That was special

Get out into the sun, touch grass and gather youth around you and show them DN

[cloud bay]

lol

[forest flax]

If I do it, it's frowned upon. 🤣

[lucid creek]

is "Retarts" a Vietnamese name?

like "Sussy Coloner" 😄

[cloud bay]

no

for some reason, 2 vietnamese people made 2 of the dumbest names in existence (we love it)

[forest flax]

Stand and be true. Only way to be.

[wooden olive]

The rest of us don’t forgive

You are stealing a week of game play from people and that’s wrong. It’s very simple

If you don’t wanna play just don’t play…

[cloud bay]

i know i did bad things. i apologize for that and i will not do it again. i hope someday i get forgiven

[wooden olive]

This is why I’m against rewards. I’d rather give you credits if you don’t play to keep the scum out

Same for bls. I’d rather people just get free stuff for no effort than them ruin other people game

[cloud bay]

you may be right now

can believe i went from wanting loser rewards to being the example of why having loser rewards is bad

[wooden olive]

I was right 6 years ago when I started advocating for no rewards. I know I’m right. S portion of the player base always feels the need to ruin a good thing

[forest flax]

C'mon man, that's Class A right there in my opinion. He held himself accountable in a realm of zero accountability. I forgive the player, who just wanted to play.

[wooden olive]

But he said himself he didn’t even wanna play.

So why scan?

[forest flax]

Ok I missed that part but still....an apology in HSO?

[wooden olive]

Who hates themselves so much they would play a game they don’t even like

[forest flax]

(chaotic rings a bell)

[cloud bay]

i held the most responsibility because i was the FO and i scanned

and i scanned not because i wanted to be a troll but because i wanted to complete the joining ws achievement

[wooden olive]

Did you really achieve anything then? But yes that along with cro xp need removed

[cloud bay]

i achieve 1 ws closer to getting 1000 gems

i never cared about corp xp

[cloud bay]

and also i do like ws. i participated my alt in another corp. which isnt loss farm

that corp was full slot so i didnt send my main in

[wooden olive]

That’s a nothing burger argument

[potent crest]

but you gotta agree with one thing

the old system is better than the new one

[wooden olive]

No

No credit rewards is a clear improvement just didn’t go far enough

[cloud bay]

i am only replying to you saying i dont enjoy ws

i said i am wrong in other things

[potent crest]

no no no

40xp for doing nothing

is much bettyer of a loss reward than whatever credits you'd get

far less loss farmers used to be

[wooden olive]

The xp system need entirely replaced loss farming aside but that’s a whole other can of worms

[forest flax]

Mmm AHA! You see! Your Honor, I present to you this....If it don't fit, you must Acquit. And this Lad, is a responsible human bean, not a troll your Honor. I rest my case.

[cloud bay]

thank you

[forest flax]

Objectives are worthy goals. Oh and come with reward.

[forest flax]

Welcome. No more loss farms, though.

[late hedge]

Agreed. The Corp has been ignored by the dev almost entirely

[potent crest]

we are getting behind on the leak because of alts

[slender talon]

What's the topic of this thread, again? Combined credt bonuses from higher level artifacts and the passive income bonus aren't enough incentive to participate in WSs?

[lucid creek]

the argument goes that you can get a better bonus elsewhere by hopping anyway. and the passive income is miniscule.

also that some people need individual incentive and don't feel like working for the corp. 😄

[potent crest]

I - I just want my fair share of progression

those who only play bls, get to level up. Those who only play rs, get to level up. Those who only do shipments, also the same. But WS-

Of course that isnt the most valid and only argument

[wooden olive]

If you can’t do 5 seconds of relay but can ruin someone else 5 days of playing I guess you don’t deserve to progress

[lucid creek]

pressing the scan button on a whim takes less than 5 seconds!

[wooden olive]

Exactly so if you can do that you can relay without thinking about it too. Boom there is your reward for the week

[alpine temple]

For me, my current WS Rewards are: Achievement (of course you can't deny this), awesome teammates and "Some Dramas"

[potent crest]

hmmm, thats a kinda good idea. That isnt part of my official argumentation though as I clearly said, so please no

omg what a stupid fool I am

if I just did that, everyday, I'd be rs9 by now

[forest flax]

Learn to chew your presses thoroughly between each press give a Zoolander stare...

[potent crest]

yo, where you at blue lung guy? come argue with me in this thread, sometimes. please

[forest flax]

Third graders chase you off?

[forest flax]

No argument. You were wrong.😁

[potent crest]

hey, dont go! you help me bump the thread!

[late hedge]

I can help you out with that.
Which side am I arguing?

[potent crest]

idk

[late hedge]

So instead of blanket rewards for winning or losing, they should have objectives that need to be completed for rewards. This would require both teams to enter into the WS and do something at a minimum. Still doesn’t prevent loss farms but I really don’t think you can stop that.
Additionally, we would need to define what a loss farm is in order to stop/prevent. Otherwise it’s totally subjective

[eager cliff]

or remove the reward entirely

first step is to remove everything except corp bonus

second, make every relic retrieved from both team become a measure for reward

all relic retrieved is put into a pot

if team A got more than team B (like 40-36, a tight game), then 76 is shared for 20 players, with team A getting more per player than team B, but the amount is a sad amount
if team A dominated team B (30-0), lost farm or mining sector got annihilated, team A gets super rich from relics

third, make participating in a ws cost creds, it should be equal to 1 croid

and the relic payout scale with the amount of cred spent to scan a ws

the amount of cred spent may hinder lost farmer for a bit

here's how it sound in my head
team A with 2m cred spent
team B with 2.5m cred spent
the total is 4.5m
in scenario where team A win a really close game (40-39), then team A gets (40/79)% of the 4.5m + relic cred reward, while team B gets the remaining
a tie with whatever amount of relic will always give both team <50% of the 4.5m and not taking relic cred reward
a dominating win like (30-2) will give team A almost the entire % of 4.5m with the relic cred

[bronze bay]

If only there was a way to invest credits into a white star -> whoever wins gets the bet credits but then it's easier to loss farm? Who wants to loose bet credits though

[chrome mauve]

Whoever wins whitestar gets free warp lanes in all planet sectors for the bonus time.
That would motivate people

[cloud bay]

🙏

that sounds almost as bad as monthly youtube premium purchase

[potent crest]

https://tenor.com/view/george-bush-angry-shoe-throw-dodge-gif-5298606

[dry plinth]

Relics retrieved turn into artifacts with the highest possible bonus in the game(300? 400?), divided equally between the 10 players, matches their highest rs scanner level.
You can choose the color & they cannot be traded (appears directly in research station.)

30-20 means each team's player gets 3-2 respectively.

[potent crest]

BAD idea, then the rewards would discriminate based on team level

and ay, its 2025, no discrimination here

[twin umbra]

as explained in another thread, individual participant WS rewards will not be considered. Any future additional WS rewards will apply to the entire Corporation, not the participants

[wooden olive]

#1315586131865112586 message link for the lazy

[finite imp]

Well if people want rewards to play ws, and people want an incentive for staying in a corp, how about adding an extra income bonus for winning ws?

[potent crest]

well, at least we have it. Seems like agenda wont change no matter how many players support it... I wonder if we get every single active player in the game and there'll be any consideration lol.

[wooden olive]

That won’t happen since I and many others have supported no Ws rewards for years before it happened and still support the decision to this day. Needs to remove corp xp though so loss farmers stop ruining the game for people who actually wanna play

[potent crest]

142 upvotes, 2 dislikes... No, the players dont want WS to be rewardless.

not like we're getting any updates at all....

I cant but think most players are misaligned with the ideology of the game.
But, cant blame anyone

I knew this thread was unlikely to be implemented from the beginning

[wooden olive]

You said “…if we get every single active player…” which won’t happen because I know of players that don’t want it myself included.

[potent crest]

but about 1000 messages, 142 upvotes, I've successfully polled a large sample of the active player base here

and it just proves to me, the majority agenda

[potent crest]

but its a small minority by all evidence

[wooden olive]

A large portion of the player base would happily kill the game if it gave them an edge but nobody to play with

[potent crest]

its a small minority of players who actually disagree

[potent crest]

so your personal judgement is more valuable than the democracy of the entire playerbase?

[graceful storm]

I want there to be rewards. I started because of the rewards, I stayed for the fun and company.

But in difficult matches, I want there to be more incentive than just the fun that comes from winning or losing. There has to be incentive for going above and beyond

[wooden olive]

Fixing the game is more important and ws rewards ruined a very large portion of what made this game amazing

[graceful storm]

It was not well done to begin with. Of course it did

[potent crest]

so you think most players dont understand whats good for them?

[wooden olive]

Yes

As evidenced by the plethora of cheaters and loss farmers

[potent crest]

This is the point, I play WS without rewards. withoout reason, but I still want rewards for an array of reasons, and I proveded a plethora in the discussion here

[potent crest]

so will of the majority doesnt matter?

everyone is just dumb?

[wooden olive]

Of course it does. More people want loss farming removed than want rewards so we’re getting what most players want

[potent crest]

maybe most players want a different idealogy than the idealogy you follow. We're ok with some lossfarmers - lossfarmers exist in every game, it isnt any special problem yet every game doesnt remove its rewards

[graceful storm]

Remove rewards from losing. There won't be any incentive to get a loss, people will play harder.

[wooden olive]

More than 50% of all the ws I have played have been against loss farmers in my time playing. It’s the reason most of my team quit over the years. Loss farming has been one of the main reasons this game died

[wooden olive]

2 loss farmers match and one must win. Your argument is invalid

[potent crest]

More people want loss farming removed? For one point, loss farmers didnt leave - I faced at least a dozen loss farmers since the years start. It is actually even worse than when we had the bar, because the bar provoked aggressiveness at leas

[wooden olive]

It’s better than it was but as I already stated he didn’t go far enough. Needs to remove xp gain as well

[graceful storm]

Rigging exists but it will be pretty pointless for the majority. Your point is valid for a minority

[wooden olive]

The few ruin it for the masses

When I sign up to play a ws I want to actually get to play it. I don’t want my week stolen from me over and over and over and over again