#Pepe The Frog
visual blade
Il me semble que nous avons déjà eu cette discussion par le passé (dans un salon de discussion comme Français ou Anglais), et j'avais affirmé le fait que même l'auteur de Pepe the Frog était contre la connotation négative qu'a pris ce meme : https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/aug/30/pepe-the-frog-cartoonist-forces-withdrawal-of-alt-right-childrens-book
Il est vrai que beaucoup de gens associent encore Pepe The Frog à l'extrême droite, mais il se trouve que la majorité des utilisateurs de ce meme ne sont pas des gens d'extrême droite. Le fait que l'extrême droite essaye de s'accaparer de ce meme pour en faire leur symbole est une chose, mais je ne pense pas que nous devrions remplacer ce meme sous prétexte qu'une minorité l'utilise à mauvais escient
maiden depot
Simple to change, no harm to the community to remove it. I liken it to the swastika, which was an old symbol used by many cultural groups and later appropriated for bad things. We don't keep that around here either.
https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/swastika
subtle swallow
souvent les emojis Pepe sont importées d'autres serveurs grâce à Nitro, ça serait impossible de les retirer totalement
visual blade
Simple to change, no harm to the community to remove it. I liken it to the swast...
The problem being that I love to use this meme like a lot of people in this community, and people that have Nitro can use Pepe The Frog memes from other servers. So to me it would be pointless to do so, 'cause it wouldn't reduce its usage, and we wouldn't be able to moderate every person using it as an emoji...
maiden depot
I think it's better to avoid giving white supremacists the ability to whistle to one another subtly
subtle swallow
on connaît la connotation de Pepe, cependant ce n'est pas réaliste d'envisager de l'interdire
maiden depot
Better to take it out of the server's hands
visual blade
Better to take it out of the server's hands
I'm sorry, but it is not doable
maiden depot
If people want to use it they can sub Nitro and the server can avoid being the one that gives a tool to bad actors. But understood.
subtle swallow
we do forbid the use of the dogwhistles such as Clown Pepe though
maiden depot
Of course not, but it is a nice way to detract from being first hand in the delivery of them
subtle swallow
people in French actually use Pepe for fun, it's a great way to take it out of the alt-right's hands
visual blade
If people want to show that they are from the alt-right, pepe isn't, to me, the best tool in the shed...
visual blade
people in French actually use Pepe for fun, it's a great way to take it out of t...
Exactly, let's re-reclaim this meme instead of wanting to cancel it
maiden depot
I understand. I just feel like while it's still classified as a hate symbol under ADL it feels wrong to give people that easy access haha
subtle swallow
think of it this way:
we give people the opportunity to make it benign again
not meaning to neglect your feelings about it though, they're totally legitimate
maiden depot
How far gone does a symbol need to go before you would classify it as not good to keep
Ex: swastika is obviously over the line
Where does that line draw
visual blade
Maybe it will not be in 100 years
It just needs time to cool down
Because Asian Swastika is just so normal and common
maiden depot
The meme was used with préjudice only 4 years ago in a children's book
visual blade
Right
Some people use this as an alt-right symbol, but it doesn't mean it is
A lot of harmless people/servers/communities use it without second thoughts
maiden depot
visual blade
I understand what you're saying though, be assured of that
maiden depot
No worries, I like being able to talk civilly about it :)
visual blade
Yeah I like it too 🙂
subtle swallow
The connotation of emojis works the same as the connotation of words. You know when it's okay to use offensive words. Sometimes you fail at guessing if it's appropriate or not, but that's okay, you adjust. Emojis are the same.
rare walrus
Simple to change, no harm to the community to remove it. I liken it to the swast...
(Sorry for chiming in late)
This is a poor comparison imo because the swastika was adopted (and modified fwiw) by a horrible regime that killed millions of people, while pepe was appropriated by a relatively small group and still sees widespread use as just an ordinary meme. The association is predominantly positive, compared to the swastika where it's predominantly negative (for me, a Canadian)
rare walrus
I understand. I just feel like while it's still classified as a hate symbol unde...
With regards to this, the bowl cut and 👌 sign are also "hate symbols", but again, their mundane use massively overshadows their hate use
While I disagree with you, I think it's good that you're aware of and considering these sorts of things
stiff girder
Just wanted to say that pepe the frog is part of the exam to become an official Discord moderator, so it is a really difficult question.
shell tendon
Pepe the frog is also a fairly large part of Discord culture due to the history of Global Emotes, where the most prominent emotes available for all members, including those without Nitro, were pepe emotes. While there may be exceptions varying on the community and platform, Pepe is overwhelmingly used positively and in a completely benign manner. Certain specific pepes are considered dogwhistles, which we look out for, and if we notice someone using other emojis in an attempt to dogwhistle we will action that. The link you gave even supports this, stating that the vast majority of Pepe memes are entirely unharmful, and that the exceptions are largely ones that are explicitly racist (placing speach bubbles with racist remarks, for example). It states that they should be examined in context, not outright banned, and that there are actions being taken to "reclaim" the pepe.
We should not ban the usage of a huge amount of symbols simply because a small subset of people have taken it and made spinoffs that are negative.
If they started taking cats and giving them racist captions or speech bubbles or whatnot, we wouldn't ban the usage of cats, we'd only action if someone was using cat pictures in a way that implied dogwhistling or contained racist content.
And as Tangy said, we don't ban 👌 for example, but someone making that symbol in an attempt to dogwhistle would be dealt with.
subtle swallow
(Sorry for chiming in late)
This is a poor comparison imo because the swastika w...
words' connotations can change drastically as well
you're probably aware of how the French and Russian N-words developed extremely different connotations over time