#okiteiru_
rose sleet
shy crystal
i can only guess that veux is already implying the de but for words like need wanting de i dont know 
pastel mortar
in the second sentence, "de" has a specific use, it's to indicate what verb "ce" is referring to
the core sentence is "c'est difficile" (it's hard)
if what is hard is an action, you can add a verb, but need to introduce it using "de"
"c'est difficile de [parler français]"
it has the same meaning as "[parler français] est difficile" replacing ce by the verb in question
now, "de" has many uses
it is a preposition, a tool used by the language to connect words in various ways
each use case can be very specific, there's no one rule to cover every case at once
shy crystal
in the second sentence, "de" has a specific use, it's to indicate what verb "ce"...
so on the flip side, it doesnt work for veux even if its an action you want?
je veux parler français avec toi
the de is just gone
pastel mortar
this isn't the same use case
the verb is not the subject, you're not replacing "ce" here
in the sentence "c'est difficile de parler français", [parler français] is the subject, it is thing being difficult
in "je veux parler français", the subject is "je"
it uses the construction "vouloir + [infinitive]" which does not require any preposition
if you were translating it to English as "I want to speak French" and "it's hard to speak French", it doesn't work the same, as those "to" have very different functions
In the second sentence, just like in French, you can say "speaking French is hard", [speaking French] is the subject
and "to want to [verb]" is just translated as "vouloir [verb]" with no preposition
this is just a construction, prepositions don't mean much here
shy crystal
ohhh
i get it
so because besoin is not a construction is needs a preposition to function?
even if the subject is je?
pastel mortar
it is a construction
"avoir besoin de [verb]"
some use no preposition, some use de, some use à, there's no real rule here
there are some patterns, but for the most part it depends on the verb
pastel mortar
<:missydoge:601220301312884766> awesome good to know
English does the same btw
to believe in something
to depend on someone
to laugh at something
to argue with someone
you just gotta know. Same thing happens with French, except both languages don't use the same words :p
shy crystal
English is no better, but i have to ask why would you make your language difficult to learn on purpose?
not you in particular but the creators
pastel mortar
because there's no creator 
people just speak the language and it evolves based on how people communicate between each other, there's no "learning" involved
pastel mortar
someone had to create something
language evolution is very organic
it's a mix of cultures, etymology, inside jokes, mixing with various languages, what rolls off the tongue, and many more
it's not one person deciding on something for a reason. It's more like "now people say this like that apparently"
for that reason you got many things in languages for which it's not worth learning "why" and it doesn't make a ton of sense when you try to dissect it
in French, such examples are prepositions, subjunctive triggers, and liaisons
shy crystal
i guess the easiest way is for things like that
just use it like its intended and give up trying to figure out why its like that
pastel mortar
usually, it's learn the basic concept so you can understand what's going on, then get used to the individual use cases through experience and exposure
shy crystal
sometimes the concept doesnt really exist
de is one of those that i still get wrong because it has 6 that i know of, different separate uses
maiden merlin
It is just how it is, there's no rhyme or reason to it
shy crystal
il y a beaucoup de pâtes
not des pâtes no that would make sense 
maiden merlin
Why does English treat listening with an indirect object instead of a direct object? Is listening 'indirect'?
maiden merlin
il y a beaucoup de pâtes
not des pâtes no that would make sense <:aww:579259568...
Well here French behaves exactly like English wherein you have an adverb of quantity (beaucoup - a lot, plus - more, plein - full, etc etc) using the preposition « de » to describe how much something is
pastel mortar
well "de" isn't something you learn
it's more like the language has many concepts that make uses of "de" sometimes
it's just a tool
shy crystal
the difference is their version of de has a plural
maiden merlin
Il y a beaucoup de pâtes
There is a lot of pasta
Where is it plural here?
« pâtes » ?
shy crystal
yes
maiden merlin
That just comes down to how each language thinks of nouns and countability
(that being said you did say « des » not « de »)
shy crystal
no what i mean is
in english
when you say a lot
we dont pluralize of it just is of
maiden merlin
de is just 'of'
des would be « de » plus « les » making « des »
pastel mortar
well that would be because pasta is not countable in english
we do say a lot of cars
maiden merlin
beaucoup de voitures = a lot of cars
beacoup des [de + les] voitures = a lot of the cars
« de » is not plural, prepositions can't be plural only nouns and adjectives are
it's a contraction
If I say 'The cat is licking its own paw' I'm not saying 'its' is the plural of 'it' am I?
it's the possessive of 'it'
kinda like how 'hers' is the possessive of 'she'
pastel mortar
you don't say "a lot some cars"
even though you can say "there are some cars"
because "a lot of" is already indicating a quantity
here, "il y a des voitures", des is indicating a quantity
"il y a beaucoup de voitures", beaucoup de is indicating a quantity
you don't use both either
pastel mortar
yes, but in that case it is NOT the same "des"
here it is not the plural for un/une
it is the contraction of "de" (from "beaucoup de") + "les" (from specific cars)
maiden merlin
« Je vois beaucoup des voitures que tu vas acheter »
Where « des » here is « de (of) » plus « les (the) »
'I see a lot of the cars that you're going to buy'
Cuz we're describing not cars in general
but specifically the ones you're going to buy
shy crystal
bur specific ones you've talked about before?
maiden merlin
Right, it's a specific set of cars, not cars in general
pastel mortar
in bertie's example the specification is done within the same sentence
because he specifies it's about the cars you're gonna buy, which are not random cars
but you could just talk about cars previously mentioned in the conversation as well
maiden merlin
« Tu as vu les livres que j'ai achetés ? Ils ont l'air très bon, non ?
– Oui, oui, beaucoup des livres ont l'air très intéressant. »
'Did you see the books I bought? They look good, no?'
'Yeah, yeah, a lot of the books seem very interesting.'
shy crystal
i never think of how i speak english i just do 
maiden merlin
You never realise how fucked up the languages you speak can become until you decide to learn new ones
shy crystal
yeah
maiden merlin
-# Insert English making indirect objects disappear just by reordering objects, fucking do-support as a concept
shy crystal
to a certain point maybe like flynn says, if it doesnt make sense its just a quirk of the language, english has many and i use it every day
maiden merlin
to a certain point maybe like flynn says, if it doesnt make sense its just a qui...
Yeah it's a case of accepting that languages have their own logic
Often times if something doesn't make sense in a foreign language it's because you're applying your native language's logic into it
You never really question your native language's logic until you learn another language or until you apply another language's logic to it
shy crystal
sometimes
i read someone saying this Somewhere
english has many rules but even more exceptions, french often has no rules so less exceptions
maiden merlin
Nah nah nah
I'd say that French has rules which have a lot of exceptions but those exceptions still are a minority like apply a rule, you'd get 75-85% correct
English has so many exceptions the rules might not even exist
maiden merlin
Spelling is a big big example of that
shy crystal
i miss the word (the)
maiden merlin
If you hear a French word you can't write it down but if you read a French word you can say it
If you hear an English word you can't write it down and if you read an English word you can't say it
maiden merlin
If you're learning conjugation for -ger words like « manger, nager » you'll find one
for example
maiden merlin
je mange, tu manges, il mange, nous man__geons__, vous mangez, ils mangent
What's going on there with « mangeons », why isn't it « mangons » ? Well, the letter G in French has a 'hard' and a 'soft' variety: the hard G (think of the G in 'game') is found with back vowels so « gagner, gobelet » are hard whereas the soft G (think of the G in 'gel') is found with front vowels so « __gé__ant, __gi__rafe » are soft. Because here the sound is a soft one yet the ending starts with a back vowel <o>, we add 'e' to 'soften' it.
that fucking blew my mind when I started learning French
because in English G with front vowels is random as fuck like why is 'gift' hard but 'gist' is not
shy crystal
je man**ge**, tu man**ges**, il man**ge**, nous man__geons__, vous man**gez**, i...
because otherwise it would be pronounced similar to our o in on?
maiden merlin
maiden merlin
don't get me wrong French spelling is annoying as fuck but not that annoying