subjonctif vs conditionnel for desire

[cerulean pollen]

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subjonctif vs conditionnel for desire

[twilit quest]

for all intents and purposes, subjunctive only triggers after "que" (but not always of course)

the use of "si" creates a si clause, and tenses for those are very specific

"ce [être] bien si j'[avoir] un café"
if "être" is conditional, "avoir" can only be imparfait
"ce serait bien si j'avais un café"

"je voudrais que j'aie un café" would work, if not for the fact that reusing the same subject as the main clause in a subjunctive clause is avoided. In that case, you should be using the infinitive
"je voudrais avoir un café"

[twilit vapor]

(i'm not afk i'm actively digesting these 👀 )

Thanks... I'm still not clear on that table either, but I think I need a bit of time digesting this.

[twilit quest]

please tell me if you'd like me to develop on something

[twilit vapor]

(pardon, I'm having trouble expressing my question)
So, I think... first of all I need to be able to differentiate subjonctif and conditionnel when expressing desire. In the first example:

• Ce serait bien que j'aie un café / Ce serait bien si j'aie un café (wrong)
• (It would be nice to have coffee / It would be nice if I had coffee)

The only difference is que/si, and going from what I read on my slides and what you said, "que" is effectively but not always required.

1. Is "que" really the main differentiator?
2. I think... it also doesn't matter what tense I use for the first subject I think?

• C'est / ce serai / ce va être important que j'aie un café

[twilit shoal]

Si can technically have subjunctive after it in a si clause but only subj pqp, and the other verb would also be subj pqp. This is very rare though and virtually obsolete. Most native speakers are unaware it exists. There are other smaller triggers for the subjunctive that are far more common, but they're few and far between so they shouldn't be your main focus to start with.

1. The main difference is the triggering clause. It's not just "que" on its own that triggers it, it's the full expression "bien que"
2. It matters, sort of. "Ce serai" and "ce va" do not exist, not sure if you meant "ce serait" or "ce sera", "ça va" for the other. The future doesn't matter, it defaults to present as subjunctive has no future tense. Past is complicated. Imparfait technically calls for subj imparfait but it's virtually never used and will either be avoided (preferably) or will use present. There are cases where you'll use subj passé but I don't have the rules off the top of my head.

[pulsar tapir]

"que" is effectively but not always required.
You misunderstood, actually. Flynn's point is that the subjunctive always comes after « que », meaning only in a subordinate clause, but that doesn't mean anything after « que » will necessarily be in the subjunctive. Basically, all subjunctive clauses come after « que », but not all clauses that start with « que » are subjunctives.
On (2), yes it doesn't matter what tense you have at the start. What matters is the relative timeframe of your subjunctive. Is your subjunctive happening concurrently with or will happen after the main clause? Subjunctive present. Has your subjunctive already happened and ended in the timeframe of your main clause? Subjunctive past.
Switching from the subjunctive present/past to the subjunctive imperfect/pluperfect only happens in formal literary contexts and should not be the focus of your studies.

Picture this: You've been invited to a party and you decided to go there on your own. Maybe it's been a long time or you've only got to know these people a little while ago so you feel a bit nervous. However, you know that your best friend Alice has also been invited and that she's also coming. You feel much better because you have someone close to you there. You arrive at this party and you can't find Alice anywhere.
Nonetheless, because you know that she's coming (and she might have confirmed that she was coming), you say to yourself « Ah, je suis heureux qu'Alice vienne (I'm happy that Alice is coming) ». Why? Because she's not arrived; the subjunctive action has not yet happened or has not ended – is still on going – when the main action happens.
Conversely, if you arrive at the party and you see that Alice is already there, you say, « Ah, je suis heureux qu'Alice soit venue (I'm happy that Alice came) » because she has already arrived; the subjunctive action has already happened and ended by the time the main action happens.

[twilit shoal]

Not all subjunctive clauses come after "que", though, as Flynn and I said

So no, Flynn's point wasn't quite that all subjunctive clauses come after "que"

[coral crown]

t'as un exemple de subjonctif sans que ?

[twilit shoal]

"c'était la meilleure qui soit"

Le plus commun autre que "que" c'est "qui", ou rien
"Vive la france" par exemple (mais là on pourrait éventuellement dire qu'il y a un "que" implicite)

Et comme j'ai dit plus haut il y a ça

[coral crown]

en tout cas il y avait

[twilit shoal]

Le subjonctif plus-que-parfait en général peut remplacer un conditionnel passé aussi, ce qui est plus commun que ce cas spécifique

Surtout dans les nouvelles de ce que j'ai vu